How Erik ten Hag is using width differently
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 เม.ย. 2023
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Premier League clubs like Man City have been using maximum width to stretch the opposition in recent years - but Erik ten Hag has previously used the term ‘minimum width’ in regards to the way his team sets up.
The Man Utd coach pioneered the use of narrow positions at his old club Ajax, but we’re now seeing it in play at Old Trafford with Marcus Rashford in particular getting the most out of the system.
But what does the term actually mean, and what are the benefits in keeping the system so narrow? Jon Mackenzie is here to explain.
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I like the side by side of still with tactics board. It helps with understanding the match situations definitely keep that up
0:36 is the best part of the video! 😎😁
Hansi Flick's UCL-winning Bayern side played under very similar guidelines.
Roger Schmidt's 4-2-2-2 shape also uses the concept of minimum width.
Nagelsman is also using minimum width, mainly to be able to win de ball back quicker.
Jon on that relative width hype. Very interesting - excellent content and well paired with the Nagelsmann video!
I love Ten Hag but he was the only coach in the PL that didn’t see that the way to damage Liverpool is to exploit their backs.
Yeah, I don’t understand why he saw our horribly out of form fullbacks and decided not to let his most dangerous attackers test them. I think it’s a one-off, and the derbies will be much more tightly contested from next season onwards.
Well his gameplan was working. People see 7-0 and think liverpool dominated the full 90 mins. United were the better team until HT and a few individual errors forced ten hag to have to throw away the gameplan and chase the draw
did you watch the 1st game between them this season?
He tried to do something new and it failed. If you look at the game against Liverpool at Old Trafford he played in a different way... mid block and counter attack, we won that game
@@TheKrostiman maybe he's impatient and seeing how Liverpool is doing awful this season and he wanted to play his football instead of playing like an average coach when faced against a big club i.e. low block counter attacking football. Unlucky that teams like Liverpool can be devastating on their day even when out of form.
The mini tactics board added to video snapshots is a subtle yet valuable addition! Thanks
I wonder if the best way is to combine the principles of maximum and minimum width in different phases of play. In build-up maximum width is extremely important in playing through the press. As demonstrated in the video, a team that is allowed to defend with minimum width can quickly counterpress and counter, and getting the other team out of their comfort zone is important. But in the attacking phase minimum width seems like a much better route that allows for those quick combinations. In addition, a particularly brave team could push a fullback into that wide area to help draw the opposition even further out of position if they are having trouble making inroads through minimum width. Well done to Jon for watching old Ajax TV clips and the team for giving him a platform to share what's in that big shiny bald head!
Is this what they call... min-maxing? 😎
You are football genius.
Which one does Liverpool play?
@@super_organist Minimal Effort
But the whole point of stretching out your team when atracking is that you make the distances between your opponents' players bigger! That goes against what you're saying about minimal width being better in attack? Isn't Pep's whole philosophy to stretch the pitch in attack? Pep's wingers stay as wide as possible but Ten Haag asks his wingers to do the opposite and tuck inside? There seems to be a few contradictions here but very interesting topic and video but it should have been more in-depth.
Donny is actually an insane space maker it's very evident he doesn't handle the ball much but he's very clever in finding and creating spaces , making runs and one touch football a type of player who works in very few systems but still nonetheless a great player.
Best player at United in that regard. He's the Muller of this team if he ever played 5 games in a row
@@haimainjauo242 100% he was touted as the next muller when he was at ajax
Criminally under used in man utd ...only mata and matic know how to play with donny
Seriously under-rated football channel. My source of informed and useful football analysis and discussion. Makes all the other pundits, both on major networks and those on TH-cam, seem clueless and only in it for the views and clicks. Thanks Tifo!
yea its for people who don't understand football
Jon said "width" a minimum & maximum of 27 times in this video 👍
Can you do one on how Emery has Aston villa playing so well?
Aston villa has good players even before. Steven Gerrard was making them look bad.
@@sneezylasagne8534Would like to add Lampard -> Dyche as well. Much more solid at the back and better counter attacking
If you’re still looking for a video like this I’ve uploaded one on my channel
Villa went downhill in form after Gerard’s number 2 left for job at qpr…. Highlighted he was actually the brains behind the team set up not Gerard… g got found out for his lack of tactical awareness and lost dressing room
This video is FANTASTIC! Good pace, good and clear speech, and an awesome topic! Congratulations!
Yo jon i didnt watch the full game but while i was watching the highlights, something stood out to me. Multiple times I saw mctominay having a lot of space to attack the box multiple times because of the wide players pulling the back line apart to cross the ball into the middle and the central players being a little further in the box. I think mctominay only had one shot and it was the beginning of the game. But do you think this is like a rehearsed game plan from ten hag? Because they dont have a proper striker that he is trying to create goal scoring opportunities for multiple players.
Do people forget that a player INJURED Donny VDB, he’s not injury prone.
If anyone go back to watch where he was injured, someone made a dangerous tackle and actually injures Donny.
If ETH doesn’t need Donny, he would sell him already. A player that he managed and is an Ajax graduate, and plays in the champions league FINALS vs Tottenham...
He ain’t no bench player.
Great explaining
Thank you
❤️
Great analysis. I love you Jon. ❤👏🏾
This an interestingly technical analysis of the game. Thanks man!!
Really interesting. Thanks for convering width, which is a crucial concept in football. I always thought max width was the way to go, but good to see how Ten Haag uses his wingers differently.
Dutch philosophy from school of johan
This is every FM gegenpress tactic
A video on why Potter struggled at Chelsea, please?
Players couldnt be bothered
out of his depth
Worst club to work or play for in world football👍
No need for that. He was thrown under the bus.
Great video. thank you for introducing this concept so nicely.
So what are we compromising for those advantages of minimum width?
Therapist: Wide Jon isn't real. He can't hurt you.
Wide Jon: 0:41
Would be nice to cover at the end the disadvantages of minimum width in the attacking phase. For example: it's good for Fernandes, but is detrimental to have a left-footed right winger like Anthony because then if the opposition has two sitting DMs he'll just run into traffic. This is especially the case if you have a poor attacking right back like AWB in 2020 Sevilla Europa Final, where the opposition blocked the inner channels and gave AWB lots of space because they knew he was harmless.
The ladies: "oh, emmm that looks a lot smaller than I expected"
Me: "It's not small, I'm just using width differently"
Just don't call it Minimal Length
Excellent video
Jon McKenzie out here generating space .
Please do one of these for Wiegman’s England!
Interesting video but I think the parts on being narrow out of possession don't really apply because even teams who play positional play try to make the spaces as small as possible without the ball, every successful team since Sacchi's Milan has followed this principle so it doesn't seem specific to what Ten Hag is talking about to be relevant to this discussion
Tifo & Tifo IRL thank you very much.
PS. Might I add that I'm a Chelsea fan and a Tuchel apologist
Do a video on the latest Clasico
This makes sense because Antony has slipped in Weghorst and Sabitzer a few times playing the minimum width role.
Mason Greenwood would have been perfect for playing this role on the right wing as he can go both inside and outside hence exploiting the space on either sides. Antony tends to cut inside mostly.
While i find the idea of minimum width very interesting and I understand its benefits to the defensive transition phase I wonder if it means it is also easier for teams who can easily find space outside to exploit I would also like to see how it affects build up structures and if it has any particular effect on rest defence structures
I was hoping for some more detailed analysis on how to stop teams who play this way. I feel like a good low block and counterattack setup can break this quote easily.
Brilliant from. brilliant from my manager Erik too
I understand the positioning of wide players play an important part, but it's always 5 vs 4 in the demonstration, where the reds are always playing 2 against 1 white. So, does it mean if the opposite team plays 5 at the back or 3 CB with 2 wingbacks, Ten Hag's 'minimum width' no longer works?
That’s how Man U trick Gabriel foe the Antony goal
Just left huge spaces for ASM and Murphy to run in to
I heard Harry Maguire say ‘rest defence’ in an interview and I immediately thought of Jon Mackenzie.
its a real shame Donny got injured so early in the season and missed the rest of it. if not for that reckless tackle on him, we wouldn't need to put up with this mctominay nonsense.
Should definitely try and sign that van de Beek guy.
Minimum width in transitional moments, maximum width against a rested defense seems optimal
Was this why they were holding hands in training during the initial stages of this season?
They have the right coach just need to ad some players. Either next season or the season after they will be a real threat.
Imagine if United would have a decent coach and tactical plan before ten hag so they wouldn’t have wasted donny’s career, I can’t forgive them for that.
I miss my boy
He’s crap
Tifo irl update….click! I’m a simple man.
Give us a video on Thomas Frank
In a parallel universe, John's hands aren't starring on a TH-cam video but instead they're starring as 'The Handymen' in the 90s kids show Zzzap
Now I know why the pitch seems colour ed, they are actually channels!
When you see John explain your FM tacticas that you didn't know why you liked it 😅😅😅
I've been trying to do something similar in fm and didn't know it's a thing. Wanted to play a narrow 4-4-2 that will congest the middle so the wingers could go wide with as little trouble as possible. The idea was that this way my wingers could make it to the byline unmolested for low crosses to the poacher, or just dribble in from wide with pace and square it short for a tap in.
The CBs are pinned by both strikers pushing up. Depending on their block the midfielders either sit in front of the half spaces or stay low to distribute wide or over the wall. I wanted to make space outside to go wide, not have a shorter way in. Not using a 4-4-2 is not an option and my left and right back are not suited for overlaps, nor the wingers can hold the ball up well.
@@javorgeorgiev6130 can i plz ask how fun fm is and how much minimal (width) or length of time I need to dedicate to it to try it out at least for a month or two?
@@haimainjauo242 Depends on what you find fun, because it's going to be a lot of parsing through data. Hours of tutorials on You Tube and forums to find out how stuff really works. The game does a pretty poor job of explaining itself and even hides some stats you can only see in the editor.
I have over a thousand hours in it and regret every second, yet I keep playing it. It's been more out of curiosity and trying to mess with the AI. You can't get anywhere close to replicating real life football tactics in it, but it's fun to try anyway.
If you want to have some fast fun with it take over some top club. The players will be so strong you can set any tactical preset you enjoy and still win a lot. It's more of a transfer deal and scouting manager than anything else.
Oh look, Ten Hag has invented inside forwards, just like how he also invented defenders being in the right defensive position when in attacking possession or "rest defence". Nonsense, the lot of it. Just because Ten Hag comes up with an unknown phrase for a very common concept, it doesn't make him a leading mind in tactics.
Facts. Many managers do these similar concepts and have done for a long time
You're a fool, obviously ten hag didn't invent these strategies, we're only highlighting that he uses them to win matches
But nobody is saying Ten Haag is a pioneer or something YOU think that lol
Ten hag loves the girth
Lets not forget that this man is in charge of one of man utd worse defeat since ww2. Let that sink in.
Did he also use width to have +5 GD and the conference league
Is keeping the pitch wide irrelevant?
Why don't you guys put match clips to better illustrate instead of images.
J O N JON J O N
Jon ginally going to end the accusations of anti United agenda with this banger
Jon “Minimum Width Dog” Mackenzie 😊
What kind of Supriority does he create when he uses minimum width? and does it allow him to counter-press effectively? There's a reason why positional play uses maximum width.. all spaces are occupied at all times
He answered the question on counter-pressing though, did you watch it?
Minimum width = JJ Bull. Maximum width = Joe.
Bald is best! Eth you genius😊
So Naigelsmann = less rigid Ten Hag?
Eric "WIDE BOY" Ten Hag
Mr luke shaw himself !
A minimum width dog is a greyhound a maximum width dog is a leonberger
So a similar idea to Nagelsmann 🤔
Ole has left the chat
Cool. What does he use to polish his head?
Raw eggs.
Playing minimum width seems like you're playing into what a low block wants you to do. You're relying on the quality of your combination play around the box to create chances
Some people don't understand the role that weghorst plays in this system. Yes he's no superstar, but he fools defenders to create space for rashford, bruno and antony to score. The problem is that, Newcastle defenders were smart enough and stayed put. Therefore ManU got lost. This is why they need people like casemiro or eriksen to create other opportunities.
that edit when jon said width floored me hahahhahahahah
I am seeing throughout the video a sort of "hidden" variable influencing when the maximum/minimum widths are most effective: the state of play. If you are DEFENDING, then, I think, defaulting to a narrow configuration is the way to go (unless you press high), so, when there is a turnover and counter, you have the shortest possible distances to goal for your attackers. But when play is slowed down because the opposition are back, then playing and building up with width allows you to unlock your way down the pitch. Ultimately, you would want your players to have unlimited energy and be able to stretch and compress when needed.
The EXCEPTION is when you are defending from the front: you need your forward defenders to take very specific positions and make very clever closing runs to force the building team into a mistake. I could see how, in turn, it would be difficult for the pressing side to get into a defensive shape in order to remain narrow... Simply to be ready for a quick counter. Given they are already pressing, these narrow, direct countering lines are, essentially unnecessary.
I don't know. It seems that basically, if you play narrow, you are trying to gain value in fast transitional play at the expensive of a well drilled pressing regimen. Whereas, if you have a decent press plan, you can play wide to unlock the opposition with creative random runs and through balls. Playing narrow just feels banzai, and, if the defense knows that is how you play, they can just try to flood the midfield with athletic defensive type players and have a mindset to not pile people forward.
Edit: Fcking didn't proofread to notice an embarrassingly inane attempt at a sentence. Fixed for clarity. Fck
Is it just convenient for you to use Ten Hag and Man Utd to drive more traffic to the channel or are we really expected to believe that Ten Hag is one of the big innovators of this?
Starting to feel tifo are mu fans, after they win suddenly got video.
Ten Hag also brews his own shampoo. Please make a video on that.
Someone's salty
@@aakarmamtora3470 Erik Seven Hag😂😂
@@avikarsewpersad9856 liVARpool in the mud hahahahhahaha
Lol so many things wrong in this video. Appreciate the content tho
bro everyday a video about 7hag and united 🤦🏻
Cry united hater
It’d be nice to have a video on Newcastle after they demolished united and west ham
Nobody cares. Demolished sure. Didn't get them a trophy did it
I remember people saying they don't score goals, damn they turned up😂 but yeah even as a united fan I'll admit newcastle were the better side by a mile
@@aakarmamtora3470 weird comment on a channel dedicated to tactical breakdowns and analysis
“Here at the athletic, we have excerpt writers for all 20 premier league teams! Which is why for every time we speak about any other team, we make 5 videos about Manchester United.”
They do have 5 times the number of fans globally. Even more by multiples compared to say Brentford. Proportional representation in action.
They do have 5 times the number of fans globally. Even more by multiples compared to say Brentford. Proportional representation in action.
Athletic and tifo different.
Next video. How Erik Seven Hag combs his hair.
Pipe down bin dipper.. conference league next seson
I've figured out that Erik's team are always going to have an advantage according to your table-top demonstration. The opposition only ever have four players! And none of them is a goalkeeper? Amazing tactical advantage.
More videos on United please. Erik Ten Haag goes to toilet differently :))
They say 😂😂
Is Tifo just a Man Utd channel now?
The last 10 videos on this channel in order (excluding the podcasts) are about Nagelsmann, Potter, Haaland, Man City, Nottingham Forest, Osimhen, Scotland, Arsenal, Spurs and Fulham. So how is it "just a Man Utd channel"??
nope. this is the first video in a bout 14 about united. im suprised there havent been more considering the club is up for sale tbh.
Isn't it obvious that video relating to Man United goes viral
Biggest club in the world tax
The white team shouldn't have got 7 players sent off - especially the goalkeeper too. Very exposed when they turned over the ball.
First
so happy for you
Oh look, another tifo reach around for ETH 🙄
For a "Leeds" fan, this fella sure does look fawning over Manchester Reds every time they win. Does tifo have a vault of these ready to drop after every win?
Ten Hag is just a great coach mate
@@robbiearrowsmith6006no he's a coach that did amazing in the one horse league that is Dutch football.
Manchester Reds won't dominate the way they have in the past. Something that will drive ETH away because at his core he's hollow fella that has no passion for the club or the team.
@@TheIncredibleBeard_ Christ. In one comment you've exposed yourself as someone who knows nowt about Dutch football, European football, and also seem to be a bit of a mentalist. You reckon Pep grew up watching Summerbee and Goater or Klopp was a scouser in his younger days? Absolute drivel.
@@robbiearrowsmith6006 I think hardly anyone out side of Holland cares about Dutch football. Amazingly, Kloop is German (a great but very one-sided league) and Pep is Spanish (a great but one-sided-but-not-as-much-as-germany league tho).
The only thing ETH and Kloop have in common is they are both sore losers. Pep is a gracious guy, someone who ETH could learn from.
I ETH will be gone in 2 seasons as Manchester Reds are now the second team in Manchester and coasting on the success fumes left by Ferguson.
@@TheIncredibleBeard_ There are a lot of things I don't know or care to know about, but what I don't do is speak about them authoritatively as part of a nonsense argument to discredit a manager because I really really hate Man Yoo.
How Erik ten Haag used width to concede 7 goals.
Peps football 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Looks like people use these more to show off why their club coach is better rather than caring anything at all about tactics. Expected, but still disappointing.
He's using hoofball just like Wimbledon, Bolton,Stoke and any club Sam Alladice managed. He plays fosil football 😉
Let’s not get carried away. We only won 1-0. Remember the we got crushed 7-0 by Liverpool and lost to Newcastle after the break.
fun fact: casemiro has only played 19 games this season
And you've beaten Newcastle in a cup final, Liverpool the game previous. City, Arsenal and Spurs too. Maybe don't get carried away by 2 losses against good teams after Utd's insane post-WC schedule - without two of their best midfielders. :)
Looks like I was right about Wout Carthorse. As bad as every "but he runs around a lot.".
Admit it Ten Haag fanboys, he's a total dud you've been trying to justify to further the Ten Haag saviour narrative.
Ok dud
Martial has been injured half the season. Ronaldo "forced" his way out. The stupid board didn't want to spend money on Gakpo, Felix and hence we ended up with a Burnley loanee who might not be United standard, but has been influential and at least gives us an option, 'dud'
@@SatvikMagotra he's an absolute donkey and the fact that some Man Utd fans are so adamantly defending him is a sign of how far they've fallen.
They could and should have so much better but standards are low these days.
JESUS IS COMING REPENT NOW.
Sometimes winger is wide, sometimes he is narrow. Futbol 🥸