Why is everyone using a Box Midfield?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2024
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Mikel Arteta and Xavi are having stand-out seasons this year, with Arsenal and Barcelona leading their respective title charges.
Both managers, and many more through-out the Premier League are utilising a box shape in midfield. The shape allows teams to have a numerical advantage in midfield and dominate possession. But beyond this, why is everyone now using a box midfield?
Jon Mackenzie explains why the tactical phenomenon is becoming so popular this season.
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Additional footage sourced from freestockfootagearchive.com
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
00:14 What's a Box Midfield? (Tuchel's Chelsea)
01:37 Arteta's Arsenal
05:08 Xavi's Barcelona
08:42 Conclusion
#arsenal #manchestercity #tactics - กีฬา
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I would’ve mentioned the fact that both White & Kounde were predominantly CBs prior to this season. They are being used as RBs so they can form a stronger back 3 when the LB moves up.
Pep does this as well with using Bernardo Silva and Ake as LB. He used the young kid Lewis at RB in the win against Bournemouth and he slotted into the half spaces in midfield in attacking plays.
Interesting concept.
Except White is often the sixth attacker, more often than he tucks in narrow.
White actually plays like a very traditional fullback, joining attacks and not tucking into the back 3 all that much.
@@Lightexo Bernado was a bit of a disaster at LB, though I get the concept. It didn't help playing him against the best right winger in the league in Saka, it has to be said. Lewis is the better option if you need someone to go into midfield, and Aké is the better out and out defender, IMO.
@@GuyJames Yeah. Even Rico Lewis isn’t ideal for the position if the winger is top level.
Pep has weird formations and puts in players simply because they have enough ball playing skills to play inverted and drop in. He’s just like that sometimes.
Thank you Goblin King, your insight is as valued as your rule over us lowly goblin peasants.
i love you for this comment
All praise the Goblin King his unholyness.. We are not worthy
Goblin king?
@@misters6749 Only those who have watched EVERY episode will understand ;)
Can someone please explain the reference
I actually did the Barca tactic last season without realizing it lol played a 10 as a LW and told him to cut in so we can play with 2 10's and play to our advantage which was our RW being a traditional winger. Stays wide, runs to the byline then puts the ball into the box for our ST or 10's. And this worked with my U/12 team lol
How would you feel about a job in London??
@@OzyMandias13 specifically west london, your predecessors’s name rhymed with blotter or something
west ham would love to have you as coach
Where in South Africa are you based
@@cabhan if you go around using the word predecessor like that, you’re gonna get a lot of desperado hopes up. He is the incumbent for at least another eight hours and very likely until at least post-Dortmund.
As Chelsea fan, why did you have to remind me of Tuchel’e Chelsea 💔💔 Just wanted to appreciate Teta’s tactics without the heartbreak
did you enjoy watching Tuchels Chelsea team play? it was effective but not pleasing to watch, imo. I dont support chelsea btw
@@benellis-moat6247 effective but unpleasing to see is very German thing
@@benellis-moat6247 imo, Tuchel just missing a world class striker (all he has is Werner and Lukaku).
Imagine Tuchel having Torres...
@@benellis-moat6247 Yea my biggest gripe on Tuchel’s Chelsea was his over reliance on RJ and lack of creativity through the middle, even when we dominated possession, it still felt like goals were scored scrappy
@@HenSt-gz7qj trolling
I would add one more thing about Barca. When everybody is healthy box midfield works perfectly. But if you have to play Sergi Roberto, Kessie and Alba instead of Pedri, Gavi and Balde, then you will most probably lose to Man United. Problem with Barca is not that box midfield doesn't work, but the fact that they only have maybe 12-13 great players, and rest of the team is not as good, because they are either too young or too old. They don't have deep squad and when they lose 3-4 players due to injuries or suspension, they have problems. Last night, they for the first time in 15 years parked the bus against Real Madrid, because that was the only way to win. If they tried to dominate the ball and have possession, they would have lost 3-0.
So true
I’d be really interested to know what the comparison is between a box midfield and a diamond midfield and why teams don’t go for that for numerical midfield superiority. Also how does the idea of the box midfield compare to the classical WM formation
The ten in a diamond could be more easily marked by one of the opposition's pivots, the deep-lier by their striker, meaning one pivot could be enough for them, while on the other end, their wingers could come inside to be a midfield 4 again. If you play a box, you bind two opposition midfielders more deeply, potentially tearing down their structure through holes higher up. You're then more easily able to play around their midfield if they choose to pull a winger in for them to have a midfield 4 again.
@@needfoolthings what a great answer to a very good question! I'm no authority on the matter, but your explanation is excellent.
To add to what @@needfoolthingssaid, diamond vs box also has an impact for defense and buildup shape.
Just like the diamond puts a lot of pressure and responsibility on the ten role for attack, it does the same for the single pivot midfielder in defense and buildup.
With a box midfield, you use a double pivot instead, which leads to a safer, more conservative structure. The teams' buildup and rest defense structure becomes then a 3 + 2 (3 defenders, 2 mids) instead of the 3+1 you would have with the diamond.
Xavi, for example, needed this double pivot because Busquets as single pivot is hardly sustainable at his age. A diamond would expose him more.
Real Sociedad are using diamond midfield. They're the only ones in Europe who have got it figured out
the difference comes with where the extra man is located. In the diamond, the defense will leave alone your pivot, while in the box, it will be an attacking midfielder
Been playing a 3-2-2-3 for ages to get the advantages of the classic W-W in offence and defense, while at the same time having a solid base against a counter and midfield runners for offense! Push the centre backs wide and get 2 holding midfielders into pseudo centre backs for a back 5, and proper coverage on the wings as well. Never knew it would become so popular in the years to come at the highest level!
Converts to a 3-2-4-1, 2-3-4-1, 2-3-3-2 depending upon midfield superiority and game state. Best shape for dominant teams.
Funnily enough, I remember Guardiola using this tactic against Liverpool in the Champions league a few years back, and they got absolutely battered. Glad to see it's working out now
That Liverpool side would probably still counter it, not now though obviously
Having an extra man in midfield means being outnumbered somewhere 😉
@@chubs2312 it's in defence, quick transitions and it is undone. It helps when you have possession, lose it and you're done for.
And now man city lineup with it from the start every week
Really good video. Fully agree with the last statement "just because you create a box midfield doesn't mean you get all the advantages from it", case in point being Leicester from 21/22 and 20/21(not too sure about this one) but i clearly recall Leicester persisting with the box midfield approach with Perez/lookman inverting, tielemans and ndidi in the pivot with Barnes holding the width. Unfortunately, it never worked as they would have liked it to, because they were never able to solve the phase 1-> phase 2 progression problem. Phase 2 being where they would actually reap the rewards of the central overload. It was a fun team to watch, but oh well.
why couldn't they reap the rewards of central overload? where they not creative enough?
@@petereisenhower8089sounds like the defenders and goalkeeper weren’t able to successfully progress the ball consistently enough for them to get into the further phases of play where they would have the advantage.
I remember FOOTBALL MADE SIMPLE saying that ( Gavi is a winger on paper) meaning he will return to his natural habitat on the pitch ( midfield ). I'm happy that I heard it from here too
The Barcelona breakdown reminds me of Argentina in the WC final. With Gavi filling Messi's role of dropping into midfield area, and Dembele filling in Di Maria's role of exploiting the space on the opposite side of the pitch.
Literally back to square one. WM all over again
"The more things change, the more they stay the same"
Jon thanks for the great explanation . Can you add some counter measures to the box-midfield that teams are playing this season
mr. editor ( i could not figure out who was the video editor for this video ) - The blinking highlights on the positional lines looks much better than drawing lines on the board , looks less cluttered on the board. Nice one 👍👍
Look at Johan Cruyff’s 343 diamond formation when he was Barcelona Manager.
If the DM (Guardiola) is marked, that allows the CB (Koeman), the libero, the ball carrier, to carry the ball up the pitch. The DM also can drop deep, which allows CB to push up the DM spot temporarily OR one of the FBs can fill in the spot.
The CM can also fill in the DM spot and that allows the FB to fill in the CM spot.
Instead of the FB, it can be the wingers and then that allows the FB to push up very high.
If the AM is marked by the opposing DM, he can simply move and allow the CF to come and assist or one of the wingers.
All 3 attackers are capable of switching positions.
Real Madrid under Zidane also used this, Kroos and Casemiro were the 2 pivots with Kroos and Isco higher and 4 players across the opposition backline when the fullbacks pushed very high and wide.
Thank you very much.
That’s very clear and make sense to me. Especially Arsenal, that left defender always move into the middle. 🙏🙏
Been waiting on a video on this topic for a while, and it did not disappoint 👌
Love the video but can we please get an analysis into what was in Mr Burns’ mystery box?
Love the tactical analysis. .keep it up following from Kampala -Uganda
The Zinchenko example is interesting, especially when you consider the role Rico Lewis has been playing at right back. I wonder if City’s plan was to play a 4-4-2 with the 2 full backs inverting to form a box midfield.
certainly sounds like a Football Manager tactic to use two inverted wing-backs, I haven't played the newest ones but it used to be the meta, inverted wing-backs were overpowered and I used them all the time
What app are you using to show all this? It is awesome information and being able to show it like this is essential
Great video from the Goblin's Hero.
It´s also interesting to analyze these box-midfield tactics when they are used for a specific purpose in one particular game, not only to approach every game, as is the case of the teams you mentioned. I was thinking of Argentina's World Cup semifinal against Croatia, where Scaloni used a box-midfield (Fernández, Paredes, McAllister, and De Paul) expressly to create a numerical advantage and to control Croatia's dangerous midfield trio, and it worked quite well.
Also, another team that could have been mentioned is the late Graham Potter's Brighton, with Trossard and March as wing-backs, but I get it is not as popular as the other big teams.
wow rip graham potter
@@plasticvision Now is very unpopular to talk about Potter I know 😂, but that Brighton team was great and used this box-midfield with really good results
@@juanfranciscocormick5000 haha I agree! I was just making a joke that "late Graham Potter" sound like he died.
@@plasticvision Hahaha sorry, my English obviously is not the best 🤣
@@juanfranciscocormick5000 haha dont worry your english is very good. my sense of humour not so much!
You have Chelsea pushing both fullbacks up providing width.
Barca pushing one fullback up providing the width, have one winger tucking in and the other fullback stay deep.
Man City and Arsenal having both wingers high and wide, one of the fullback invert and the other stay deep.
In the end, all have a midfield box 3-2-2-3
Tks for the vid!
so... basically what barcelona does is basically what italy did at euro2020.
Insigne played as a left winger but cut inside and Spinazzola advanced into the space opened by Insigne.
basically it's tactics from italy 2020 + tiki-taka
I thoroughly enjoyed the video, very detailed.
Ancelotti used years ago with AC Milan with his 41221 formation. True legend.
Is that the Milan team that had the biggest bottle job in the UCL final of all time
@@footballhipstertv Ancelotti won 2 UCL with that milan side and won 4 UCL in total. I am sure he won't lose sleep seeing no other manager can match his achievements even Pep who cannot win w/o Messi.
@@finding_aether Ancelotti has been managing for 13 years before Pep began managing, and keep in mind there was a 7 year span between his last UCL with Milan and his first UCL with Madrid, and another 9 years before he won the last one. Pep won two at the beginning of his career but he has a looooooong way to go before he gets to Ancelotti's years.. if he manages as long as Ancelotti he'll have 3 more UCLs than him.
@@finding_aether Ancelotti was a manager at Juve while Pep was still playing ffs
@@footballhipstertv the problem is that Messi has won the UCL w/o Pep
Pep has not won w/o Messi, even with all the FFP Man cheaty money.
Ancelotti has proven he can win UCL with multiple teams and different players.
If Ancelotti and his Milan side is a bottle job, should I bring up Pep's various "achievenents" lmao.
Be respectful to Don Carlo and you won't look like a fool.
Well this channel is currently my favourite football analysis channel and I made this decision today after watching this video
Great video.
And olso the topic is really good.
Can you help me to find a projector as you have.?or were can i find the video projector that you have?
Love your wall. Absolutely phenomenal players there and all loved.
Been doing this on FM since 2011 😎 had a goat 'tower of terror' tactic with 2 CMs 2 CAMS and 2 CFs
nice explanation and analysis bro
I love john McKenzie's explanation videos most in this channel:)
Hello what’s the software you use about tactical field and players? Thank you
Emery was the first to introduce this to the premiership when he was at Arsenal (with overlapping wingbacks) but he used 2 cb's and 2 dm's to create the box.
Nah it was an ancient formation, to begin with. It was introduced by herbert chapman for arsenal, the identical formation Arteta use today 3-2-2-3. Only 1920s kids will remember
Tuchel really was ahead of his time at Chelsea
Am I a tactical footballing nerd if watching these passing pattern and positional play analysis’ excite me 😭
😂😂😂
The fact that most teams were using the 2-3-5 formation in build-up, which resembles the inverted pyramid, the first formation in history, is really interesting. Moreover, many top teams now tend to use the 3-2-2-3 formation, which resembles the W-M, probably the second historically used formation. Will 2-3-2-3 from Metodo be next used formation?
Actually 2-3-2-3 is a phase when teams build-up into 2-3-5 so it's already in use :D
Well analysed
Quality content as always... Loving the comments section as well
Pedri, who's Barca's most important player, and Dembele were both injured for the United games (Pedri for 75% at least), Gavi was suspended for the second leg and Roberto/Kessie just arent on the sane level. Cant really make too many assumptions off of those games, considering the whole purpose of the box system is to get all the midfielders on the pitch and 50% of them were missing..
This reads as though Barcelona played with 9 men...
@@RasDam Those tactics are specially custom for those missing players.
He also benched Balde and Christensen in the first leg.
utd didnt have martinez and anthony for the first leg, eriksen and martial were injured for both legs , dalot and sancho were missing match fitness. This is how football works friend.
@@nickd987 yes, but this video is about box midfield tactics, and they mention in the video Barcelona and Europa League, and how the tactics did not work. But they didnt have the players available to apply it.
Great video!!!
Could we know where to buy a tactical screen as yours?.
Thanks!!
Beautifully done
Great explanation ... thank you ... can I ask what type of tactic board - software you use it for presentation ... thx in advance
Interesting video, but how do you make a video on a box midfield without mentioning Le Carre Magique - The Magic Square. One of the all time most famous midfield’s in world football!
To box or not to box, a very strong battle being made in the minds of tactical analysts like the goblin king.
It sounded like you were saying united don't use a box midfield?
They do. They use the same way as arsenal with a full back. Sometimes they will use weghorst dropping to make the box as well
I've used the parallelogram midfield on CM and FM.
very interesting video well done. However, if a box midfield is used to get quantitive superiority over the common 3 man midfield, what happens when a box midfield goes against a box midfield? We havent seen arsenal (or man city from what I know) go against Barca recently but if u could do a breakdown of City vs Arsenal recent game and how the midfields interact tactically in this manner that would be amazeballs. Thank you!
Arsenal went man to man
arsenal also play with a 2 3 5 in possession a lot. With both full backs coming in to the midfield
It's actually a 2/1 FB/2/5 shape with Arsenal. It's a lopsided shape at the back.
One FB aligns themselves next to the DM while the other FB positions themselves in a line of their own, and if need be, ready to join either the CBs' line or the DM's line.
The point is: be ware of the counter transition, wut needs to be there. Force the counter. Midfielders can go over when it's safe, thus when the opponent is pushed back enough. Defend with the whole build up slow so that your attackrs can fall back if you miss ur first 2 waves of press .
Thank you Crab Goblin Hero man
In fifa12 I used to refer to it as a vertical diamond
Roberto Dezerbi's double-box midfield is also another tactical brilliance
Which made Brighton unstopable this season .
The inverted LB tactic is trendy. Man City are using it with their 3-2-4-1, Arsenal have similar formation when they're possessing the ball and Brazil used it in World Cup 2022
To add to that list, Real Madrid did that on the games where Camavinga played LB (more due to injury woes rather than for tactical advantage)
you forgot to talk about how Raphinha, Fati, Torres, etc fit in
Unai Emery too with his Villareal's 4222 that beat Liverpool's 433
Could you explain the role of free 8 or the 8/10 hybrid
*?-1990:* 2 CMs (4-4-2)
*2000-2020:* 3 CMs
*2020-?:* 4 CMs
So I guess the only question is - when will 5 CMs become the meta??
I don’t know how you did not mention Brighton cause they are brilliant
This is why I like inverted full backs. Forces teams wide on counters and buys you time.
Really good video
You know Herbert Chapman had an iteration called the WM. Sure the fullbacks driving up becomes a different interpretation but history does repeat
The idea might be similar but because of concepts like triggered pressing, structured marking and a LOT less time and space on the ball to work with, the execution of the same idea makes it feel like almost entirely a new one.
Good video!
should also mention how brighton is using the box aswell, transforming a 4-2-3-1 to 4-box-2(wingers no 9)
Specifically talking about Barcelona vs United, they missed Dembele and Pedri in both legs. Additionally, Balde and Christensen didn't play the 1st leg. Gavi was unavailable in the 2nd leg. So Barcelona did suffer from not having the personnel to play their typical formation. That's exactly what Ten hag took advantage of in the 2nd leg, since Barcelona didn't have anyone who could force United to stay back and not press high. Overall, the formation has worked wonders otherwise as seen against Real Madrid and other good league teams
Pedri played the first leg
The problem with boxmidfields is simplicity in getting around it. Teams are likely to gamble with a high line defence and passive midfield which will engage at the half way line. Meaning that with two up top playing close to one another you have a direct option with the three centre backs being widely spread out. Should one central midfielder drop deeper to counter this then the numerical advantage is lost and all because of two players simply playing central and close to one another.
Alternatively the more attacking full back is pressed aggressively from a midfielder and or a lopsided midfield in the direction of the attacking full back. Yes there is an option to swing to the other full back but this means a far less threatening player is now in possession.
Name of the app You're using for analysing please
Didn't liverpool do this in 2019 where firmino would drop to be basically another midfielder with fab wini and hendeo?
What is the name of the software you're using please ?
And this is why I love Jon's videos and JJ drives me nuts. Jon does the "ambi-footed" skit quick and then moves back to the topic, letting the humorous situation sit with the viewer. JJ will drive it into the ground and beat it to death with ramblings while taking time away from the tactical discussion.
it all started with pep at man city yeeears ago, using cancelo or zinchenko and now stones as this pivot
Xavi included but not ten hag st
range
Disappointed that the Pedri song didn't insert itself rudely into this video.
There are so many teams that switch to a 3-2-2-3 or a 4-2-2-2 when they have possession of the ball. It's not a new or, let's say, modern content anymore to play with a box midfield. I would even say it is the current state of the art and this is just another video of a tactical expert trying to explain an already obvious content.
It would be much more interesting to explain successful approaches of individual teams in order to solve the resulting defensive problems. For example, one could describe the very interesting approaches of supposedly smaller teams such as Eintracht Frankfurt (Glasner) and Atalanta Bergamo (Gasperini).
what is the name of this tactics app??
Why don’t teams just start in a 3-2-2-3? Like why do we call Zinchenko a LB when he is clearly being CDM?
I can’t assume it’s defensive shape because I imagine they fall back into some shape of 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 when defending.
Just generally curious about how we label formations in the modern game.
As football is a game of transitions not a static one... There is one formation for when you are in possession, one when defending, one when starting and multiple others...
The formation often mentioned is the starting one
The box midfield is a tactic Klopp could use in pre season & next season with Trent going into midfield as part of the 4 man box. It's a tactic which would certainly benefit & rejuvenate Trent imo
Klopp tested this in tonight's match against Arsenal😬
Bur unfortunately it failed as Trent is not press resistant .
They need to because they concede lots of goals from counter attacks.
Brilliant tifo
To mention as well, Liverpool have been playing with a box midfield with Trent inverting, likely because everyone is shattered from years of mega high counter pressing.
But it's actually not working out for a team built for robust, high pressing counter football, less technical players than required for it and a manager who prefers a more transition based game. Since swapping back to a more counter press side with a false 9 it's become much better for them.
I guess though the false 9 in a way creates that 4th man superiority but in a diamond allowing the 2 wingers to go inside more and the full backs to bomb on down.
one of the best
I live long enough to remember that there was a time where it was all about diamonds, then triangles and now boxes.. I wonder what's next. How about Octagon? Pentagon? or the bestagon Hexagon?
Heh
City also playing this with Stones. Brighton too.
The classic number 10 will soon come back
Wonder how long bef the W-M returns and dominates.
No no, I will explain it to u. Use the 343 diamond in this way you have 3 possible defensive mids you are always set for the first waves of tranition. this should always at least be enough to slow them down and give your wingers and cam chance to come back ater (after pressing of course). Worst case scenario. Of course you're playing with 3 attacking midfielders and 1 midfield sweeper who needs to pick lose balls in transition that the mids leave but they are not allowed to. Lose balls are being left only by attackers thus all 4 midfielders are risponsible of course they are creating the overload so u want them to arrive between the lines, that means only the lam can go so that the other cover. Yes the rb can go forward this is when the rcm drops deep and cover yet again the rb will be chased so that means the rcm can apply press on transition. If you pass to the cam he can pass back to the lam and you are home free.
software?
Ambidextrous is not reserved for hands. It applies to all limbs so you can use ambidextrous for feet as well.
What impressed me the most with this video is how the host manages to talk for 9 minutes without taking a single breath. Surely that must be some kind of world record, right?
That's a no. There are multiple cuts between the lines, it's kinda obvious. The one thing that's impressive is that they fit good content with multiple examples within 9 minutes, that's actually good.
Why are all the examples from PL except for only Barcelona? We want to see more outside the PL.
3-2-2-3(box midfield) is what Sampaoli had been using it during his recent stints in France and Brazil
It's a good sistem in the moments of the game when you want to slow down ( usually around the minutes 25). But without two proper, talented, wingers (Saka and Martinelli etc...) is almost useless
Fast wingers who are good at 1v1s. That's an important factor in all this.
Pochettino was the first prem manager to use box midfield between 2015-2018
No mention of Sergi playing a free role in the United 2nd leg. Had united so confused that whole first half.
The funniest part was where he said the entire reason is to accommodate Pedri, Gavi, FDJ, Busi, but then says it didn't work against United, and failed to mention 2 of them didn't even play in the 2nd leg.
How about Ten Hag? Please do for Ten Hag what kind of midfield does he use
He uses a midfield that wins.. I am officially gonna start calling Ten Hag as Ten Chad
Thing use it sometimes when playing in the 3-2-5 shape but most of the Ten likes to the use 3-1-6 . Similar to Nagelsmann , Ten Hag’s team are more offensive . So they like create numerical superiority upfront hence why they use the 3-1-6 instead.
For example Nagelsmann used the 3-1-6 against PSG. De Ligt, Upamecano, and Pavard (3). Kimmich (1) then Goretzka joining the rest of frontline (Coman wide on the left and Cancelo on wide right).
@@condimentofmassdestruction9114 Bayern does that a lot. It's a risky move against PSG coz they leave Mbappe free for a 1v1 (I think Pavard is suspended from second leg, right?). But it can be useful for creating overloads, which is how the Coman goal came in the first leg.
Nagelsmann also does it with his weird 3-2-4-1 but it seems more chaotic
So basically the AC Milan of late 80's early 90's
The problem with Chelsea's implementation is that the 10s all wanna shoot instead of creating chances. They're too concerned with trying manoeuvre themselves into shooting positions as well as creating shooting chances for themselves than serve as providers, catalysts or facilitators. Mason Mount has especially been frustrating. There's a great creator in there somewhere but he's got this starboy mentality that young English players all seem to have (There's serious lack of humility and self awareness and a whole lot of ego among young English footballers). That startboy mentality ruined Jesse Lingard and Dele Alli.
Declan Havertz and Timber all fit this system. Im excited to see if Arteta can actually fit Timber into his box rather than inverting zinchenko
When is the instance when zincheko does invert
This guy is like Vsauce if he supported Stevenage fc growing up