You have to know the "business" If you do not write, produce, or put your own personal money into a project as an investment, you get nothing. Writers, producers, executive produces get paid/reimbursed. Then, there is all marketing, distibution, travel expenses, hotel, food, per diem, makeup artists, stylists, and the list goes on. All of this is paid by the record company. So they get paid back, first. Maybe a small percentage for the group singing. But, in that case, most Artists' money is made from doing shows.
Met Dawn in the Bronx when I was like 14. I used 2 play ball with her Lil cousin Chris. She was so fine all i could say was hey & stare 👀. She laugh & said I was cute...never seen her in person again
Good for MC Hammer for at least taking the time to meet with them and tell them from the perspective of an "industry expert" that they were being taken advantage of in their existing contract. It's a shame the group couldn't pull together and do something about it. They were very talented and deserved better.
AGREED.As always greedy producers not paying their talent the money due them ( this happened to TLC,New Edition,NWA,etc,etc,.. ) using their lack of knowledge in the entertainment game against them.Tho,lots of folks live and learn from their mistakes,then thrive in the game.
After finding out Terry Ellis was in a relationship with one of the producers you knew the s*** was in the game. Because it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize why Terry Ellis wouldn't side with her bandmates when it came to trying to renegotiate their contract. Terry Ellis was creating a conflict of interest.
Too bad they didn’t unite with Dawn as they should of because they were getting screwed big time as is with many talented groups like TLC etc these greedy ass producers managers etc get super rich while the actual talent gets pennies
@@ninairish763 I've always said this about en Vogue for decades because they were recruited to be a group as adults they're not going to have the same loyalty for one another as they would if they were childhood friends or something the members of en Vogue have always looked at one another as coworkers and only as co-workers
I didn’t see anyone of them as the “stand-out” star. ⭐️ That’s what made the group so great, but Dawn’s absence was definitely felt. They were never the same after she left.
@@megavega4 I can name one I can care less about the girl groups. They irrelevant to be honest honest nobody don’t care about them people forgot who who are they again? I mean, vogue I mean come on I don’t forget who they are. I’m babies I can care less about groups. I care less more about God and Girl group groups.
It’s bittersweet. I think she lost her house, she was dismissed from Lucy Pearl, and had no claim to the En Vogue name. I still look back on if it was worth it.
🙂It was a marketing strategy... The vast majority of women are not dime pieces or 10's... So if you had a group of average looking women that can really sing and dress it would be more inspirational/ relatable to all the average girls that are listening/ viewing them. Thus,cornering a larger market than four women who are EXTREMELY beautiful having a majority of women with the attitude of "them bitches not all that" when looking at them... But they somewhat missed the mark by having En Vogue all be light-skinned women instead of throwing a dark chocolate or two within the group because colorism was/is also big in the black community.....So yeah it was all a marketing strategy...
I knew Dawn personally after she left the group and dated Dre Allen. We hung out many times in her apartment or condo and on her birthday and after a lot of the gigs they performed in the Los Angeles area. One time Dawn’s dog was humping my leg. She had her gold records, just neatly against the wall on the floor. She really was a sweet person. I enjoyed her they were very kind. Dawn Robinson is extremely talented. Somehow, she can take her voice and make it sound like there are several people singing at the same time. Sadly, our mutual friend. Jason Pendleton died during Covid-19 just 3 days before his 40th birthday. By posting this, I hope to inform everyone of his passing. Jason was extremely attractive and ended up doing modeling in New York along with several TV shows like next on MTV not to mention Gerald Levert and Mariah Carey videos. RIP Jason! In fact, I’m considering doing a documentary of small one and using some of that video footage of all of us that I took on Dawn‘s birthday with her rabbit vehicle.
Not only TLC many girl groups went through the same thing. There will be always one someone from management will go after. One woman is always placed above the rest. While one is always ignored. The only difference between this group and TLC. Is. Chilli dating Dallas Austin did not break them up and chilli never went solo
@@tamara_diamonds422 And TLC struck together and got what was rightfully theirs. T-Boz, Chilli and Left Eye didn't allow people to pull them apart. They also hired a manager who had the best interest at heart and fought for them. Bill Diggins, who helped them out of their situation, is still their manager till this day.
Chilli was very smart and very loyal to the other two girls, who for the most part weren't even getting along themselves, but sided with one another when they should of and got their money in the end. Jade, Xscape, En Vogue, Brownstone all went through the same thing, bad record deals, everyone getting rich around them whilst they're being paid pennies, but unlike TLC and even Salt N Pepa who had a similar situation, those groups all had internal conflicts that kept them from sticking as a united front to get what was rightfully their's. Nicci Gilbert of Brownstone still talks about it on her socials, how she doesn't earn a penny from Brownstone's catalogue, Sony claim they still owe 5 million dollars on their contracts and even though Nicci wrote most of their songs, she has no control over their catalogue, often gets her videos removed if she uses their official audio and doesn't see a penny from her publishing deal, cos Sony take all the money.
En Vogue should have went further and have more success if they would have banded together instead of allowing people to pull them apart. They made Dawn out to be the problem child but she had the most sense. Why would they go into their second album under the same contract as their first album? That was stupid. They got screwed over for real. Dawn, Cindy, Maxine and Terry should have taken more control the same way TLC did after the bankruptcy situation. The fact that En Vogue had the same management as their producers was a clear sign that they was being taken advantage of. How can you manage the group and the producers? They wasn't allow to write on their albums so they couldn't get publishing. Publishing could have helped sustain them. I know Dawn fell off financially and I think Maxine fell off financially as well. Cindy did okay because she married a baseball player and she was acting. Terry dating Denzil Foster made things difficult as well. He was able to manipulate her through pillow talk. $5,000 up front, another $5,000 after the album was finished, and two cents a record was a joke. Cindy and Terry treated Rhona like a side chick. Because of their decisions, they will be on the road forever. They never set themselves up for the future.
But the current line up fans totally don't want to admit any wrong doings or bad decision making of Terry and Cindy, they just blame it all on Dawn and say very disparaging things about Maxine, but never actually address any points like you have just raised. They will just attack the original group members and go on like the current line up and not only relevant but making moves....yet their 90s counterparts are either doing the same thing, or in a lot of cases doing them on a much bigger scale. Xscape only had a fraction of the success En Vogue had, but look at the venues they've been doing and the money they've been making, SWV also.
This is a well-done video! I’m from Richmond, CA, and I used to work at a beauty supply shop across the way from the studio where En Vogue apparently auditioned. Watching this video reminds me that, despite their immense talent, En Vogue was ultimately a manufactured group with no deep personal ties-they were coworkers, not sisters. Terry’s 'pillow talk' and the control Tommy and Denny had over the group often led them to work against their own interests. The final clip with EV3, where Terry explains Dawn’s departure, is particularly telling if you pay attention to Cindy’s and Maxine’s nonverbals. Lastly, I’m bemused that En Vogue’s music and impact aren’t more widely recognized and celebrated.
@@efreeholdings1575 I miss those days that was just a good error for music. So different from how today is I couldn’t name or think of one girl group today I don’t know if there’s even any at all and the city girls don’t count lol but yeah, they were all great groups.
@@brittlia_yes they did! They sold Dawn down the river bc she didn’t wanna give up on her plans of pursuing a solo career in favor of devoting all of her time and attention to EV3 they let Rhone, Foster & McElroy mind fuck them which Cindy and Max said in 2 different interviews 20+ years later that they wish they would’ve listened to Dawn.
@@brittlia_ In live in Alabama dvd, Cindy herself said in the interviews on that about not sticking with Dawn was a mistake. She's said it more than that time also. Maxine has also said it several times over the years, how they were divided and pitted against one another, ambushed to sign an agreement on the spot. So I doubt their side would be much different, provided they were to be honest about what actually happened.
For my final fashion collection I used "Free your mind" as my runway song. It was electric! I remember how it took over the venue and the audience was enamored. I won best collection and the grabd prize that night.
Awesome girl group. Sad how these managers always try to screw their artists over. I was in a guy group back in 2005. We had deals on the table by Sony and one with Universal. We had a friend who was a lawyer who advised not to sign the contract as we'd be artists working for no money and would go to the manager. After that our group seperated.
This was my favorite group. I can never support after the way did Dawn. They have never had the same success without Dawn. In the words of Nene, you'll never win when you play dirty.
I had relatives (now deceased) from New London, CT.; Aunt Mary was a music teacher who taught Dawn, while Aunt Clara lived on the same street as Dawn & babysat her. They were both so happy for Dawn when the group hit it big!
THE best female r&b group ever (next to TLC)! First time I heard them, I fell in love with their voices, synchronization, harmony, and flow. Nothing comes close nowadays - or ever. Sad they broke up.
_ Maxine Jones - free spirited hippie chick - Cindy Herron - the beauty queen - Terry was the Southern Belle - Dawn Jones - the spark plug (my favourite) I'm so happy you brought up that Amanda cole was briefly apart of the group. Many people didn't even know that and Amanda has some wicked pipes!! She can really sing sing and i'm sad she didn't get to make it big
@@cain1830 Meaning none of us consider ourselves southern belles in the way the general public defines it, like Scarlett O'Hara 🤣. Coy and innocent, we prefer the old dictionary definition, polite, extreme manners but that's us older folk not so much the newer younger generations.
These women were already that good getting very little in return, imagine how big En Vogue would've been had they gotten the respect they deserved.....especially moneywise. Never underestimate what work can be achieved when you create proper motivation. And I'm disappointed that only Dawn was willing to stand up for them. Their vocal harmonies is what makes the hits, not the production.....especially with Don't Let Go. The girls should've felt empowered like F.R.I.E.N.D.S. and Big Bang Theory and fight together. The girls have the real leverage, anyone in the game would've been thrilled to work with them. If only the rest of the girls believed that, not just Dawn.
Greatest female group of all time!! As far as singing. They were class, talent, dance, voice, beauty, poise, style and underrated. They didn't even win a Grammy!!
En Vogue was a force to be reckon with. I can only imagine how musically powerful the ladies would have been had the snakes in suits not taken advantage of them. The possibilities would have been endless!! 4 beautifully talented women, who were just happy to be there, got pushed around and then torn apart. So incredibly sad. I remember the first time I heard them, and watched 👀 one of their music videos on MTV, and I was hooked!! The sound, the look, how they carried themselves. We were blessed to have been able to hear their soulful and rich voices, but even just for a short time ❤ Dawn will forever be my favorite En Vogue, along with Whitney, Janet, Mariah, who I adored growing up.
Blake: At that time, Gay people had to hide to please their band. However, people like Elton John, George Michael, Mike Jackson, Prince, & many other artists!
This was a terrific upload! En Vogue was a such a special group and my all-time favorite. Their impact and legend status are undeniable for me but the "what-ifs" truly outweigh what was. Thanks so much!
Exactly. I believe there is still a lot of resentment that they all need to work out. The past keeps creeping in and beating them all up. It's sad how the original En Vogue can't get back/stay together for too long...smh
There’s a long history of artist being so grateful to perform the art of music, that they become blind to the business of music. They sign binding agreements on the spot without ever having a contract attorney look at the financial aspects of it. The great Quincy Jones once said that the people who are making the money in the music business are those whose names are printed on the album cover in little bitty tiny letters.
😎 It never fails...a producer always sleeps with a member(s) of the group... Then that's when the group starts to separate... not always but most of the time. 🎶
Thanks for the video. They are my favorite female group of all time. I learned to sing through them. Favorite songs are "Part Of Me" and "Don't Let Go". All of their work is amazing (with original members). The harmonies ...👏🏾...👏🏾...👏🏾...baby the harmonies 🎶. These women were born to sing.
Envogue was my favorite girl group of the 90s ! I hate the fact that record labels have been allowed to ripped off artists time & time again ! Their should have been laws in place to protect the artists!
Vilifying someone because they live with an elderly parent is low, and this is not the first time you have commented this. Also, Cindy and Terry may be making money, but have they paid off their debt yet to Rene from Rufftown Records? He sued them for millions for breach of contract. So if you know intimate details of how they are living and spending their money, let us know. Otherwise, chill out with the Dawn hate. You are bitter towards her--we get it
@@Right_Direction_ Your sentence appears to be missing words [and factual statements] that might make it complete and perhaps intelligible. You moved on from the En Vogue Craze group to the TH-cam comments section. Solid career path. 👍🏽
I was at one of the 2008 shows at The Celebrity Theater here in Phoenix. They blew us away! I’ve always loved the original four together. I hate how producers and money often break up organically phenomenal groups. I’ll long for the original four to do something together again for the rest of my days 💕
I adored these ladies so much growing up. I’m so blessed to have witnessed such class and grace. They were one of many influences that have molded me to the woman I am today.
I remember the first time I saw the "hold on" video on BET video soul with Donnie Simpson. I was drooling like a baby seeing those ladies in those tight black dresses.
This was a GREAT doc. So much never before seen footage. I h8 how all these great groups always break up over money.😭😭😭 I had no idea they were the same duo that first produced Toni Tone Tony!!
En Vogue was a huge part of the Black Renaissance of the 1990's If all the members of En Vogue would have worked together as 1 united unite legally against the original producers and record label, all of them would have been Payed equally for all their hit albums, single records and royalties. All these years folks were ragging on Dawn. All this time... Dawn WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG!
Mannnn I played that Born to Sing cassette till the tape popped! I just wish the original line up could've given us a Christmas album because that would be on heavy rotation to this day!
Only $20k for a million copies sold is wild raggedy
Facts!
They needed suge knight lol
You have to know the "business" If you do not write, produce, or put your own personal money into a project as an investment, you get nothing. Writers, producers, executive produces get paid/reimbursed. Then, there is all marketing, distibution, travel expenses, hotel, food, per diem, makeup artists, stylists, and the list goes on. All of this is paid by the record company. So they get paid back, first. Maybe a small percentage for the group singing. But, in that case, most Artists' money is made from doing shows.
@@Midnight_manna no sh*t sherlock
Disrespect
All these years folks were ragging on Dawn. All this time... Dawn WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG!
Yes! I remember that
Exactly
I saw her perform back in 2006 at Chevy Chase bar, it was sad. She had a cd player and was singing over her own vocals, poor Dawn 😢
Met Dawn in the Bronx when I was like 14. I used 2 play ball with her Lil cousin Chris. She was so fine all i could say was hey & stare 👀. She laugh & said I was cute...never seen her in person again
It sure does appear that way. Don't it? En Vogue was a BIG name. To be paid $5k per song doesn't seem right. I wish them girls well. 🙏
Dawn was 6 years younger and the one with sense...
Like Ice Cube in NWA. He was also the youngest with all the sense
yes!🤷🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️
I think Dawn was born in 1967
@@pressurewashingwithkoolfel9738MC Ren is one day younger than Ice Cube
Left Eye also was the youngest one of TLC group.
Good for MC Hammer for at least taking the time to meet with them and tell them from the perspective of an "industry expert" that they were being taken advantage of in their existing contract. It's a shame the group couldn't pull together and do something about it. They were very talented and deserved better.
That's problem when you don't stand for something you fall for anything
@@markthompson180 Sylvia Rhone has a long history of screwing over artists she signed, especially if they stand up for themselves.
MC Hammer is a legend in so many ways
@@Right_Direction_read my mind
MC Hammer Did the Same thing to Oaktown 357. 🤦🏾♀️
They were such talented group and very naturally beautiful! I don't think there will be another like them again.
AGREED.As always greedy producers not paying their talent the money due them ( this happened to TLC,New Edition,NWA,etc,etc,.. ) using their lack of knowledge in the entertainment game against them.Tho,lots of folks live and learn from their mistakes,then thrive in the game.
Right!!
@@cherrycola3653 Totally agree. One of a kind.
So in other words, DAWN WAS RIGHT!!!!!!
Yep 💯🎯
I think a lot of people figured that. Thats how it ends up a lot of times
The original 4 can never be matched.... that's how powerful they are as one
I miss them. There was/is no group to compare.
After finding out Terry Ellis was in a relationship with one of the producers you knew the s*** was in the game. Because it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize why Terry Ellis wouldn't side with her bandmates when it came to trying to renegotiate their contract. Terry Ellis was creating a conflict of interest.
Too bad they didn’t unite with Dawn as they should of because they were getting screwed big time as is with many talented groups like TLC etc these greedy ass producers managers etc get super rich while the actual talent gets pennies
@@ninairish763 I've always said this about en Vogue for decades because they were recruited to be a group as adults they're not going to have the same loyalty for one another as they would if they were childhood friends or something the members of en Vogue have always looked at one another as coworkers and only as co-workers
It’s odd Kandi did that with Jermaine Dupri, Chilli with Dallas Austin, it is really tricky
@@TheTruthAintInYa Different situation
@@TheTruthAintInYavery different situations. Kandi was not in a relationship with Jermaine, and Dallas didn’t hold the business away over TLC.
They sold millions of records and barely made 100k. Crazy!
Everytime when i hear or see the name En Vogue i'm like '' mmmmm bob''
The music Industry is just the legal pimp game 🤦🏾♀️
That's Rape
nothing new in the music industry
En Vogue was the blueprint in 1. Sharing the mic 2. Vocals 3. Harmonies
Terry, Dawn, Cindy, and Maxine will forever be iconic-trailblazing-legends ❤
Dawn was right. The group was broke. Terry let pillow talk ruin the group. They should have renegotiated on the second album...
That pillow talk was it exactly. "I got Terry in my pocket."
Cindy never had an issue with finances. She was married to MLB player Glenn Braggs who was making paper.
@@pitbull64She also had her own money
@@pitbull64 Glenn Braggs only played four seasons in the MLB. His last game was in 1992. He started working in real estate after baseball.
That acceptance “speech” is unmatched ❤️🔥
Exactly! Talent like theirs is simply insane!
Totally unmatched!
Dawn was always the stand out star to me. En Vogue is under respected. Without them there would be no destiny's child.
I didn’t see anyone of them as the “stand-out” star. ⭐️ That’s what made the group so great, but Dawn’s absence was definitely felt. They were never the same after she left.
Destiny child was just 4 years behind/ you make no sense.
@@GwendolynWilliams-e1m 7 actually
Destiny child wasn't a real group. It was the child and background singer
@@Aletha-dp7vbExactly and the name says it all Destiny's CHILD, not Destiny's Children.
The Original Line Up was the best! They should have just paid them! They were worth it!
they really made Dawn look like a diva when she was right the entire time... wow... this changes everything I thought I knew about En Vogue.
The 1990 - 1996 En Vogue was the best female group of all time! ❤
No they’re not
@@EveVon83name another female group with four equally talented lead singers who were also model caliber beautiful.
@@megavega4 I can name one I can care less about the girl groups. They irrelevant to be honest honest nobody don’t care about them people forgot who who are they again? I mean, vogue I mean come on I don’t forget who they are. I’m babies I can care less about groups. I care less more about God and Girl group groups.
One of... What set them apart is that they all lead a song and GOOD!
@RobinSiwula-x8w stop it. En Vogue had 4 lead singers. T Boz was barely a singer.
Nobody can replace Dawn and Maxine...
They were the edgiest ones of the group. It's not the same.
True💯
Amen
When Dawn left, I lost interest in the group. Now I see why she left. Bravo to her fighting for what she she is entitled to.
It’s bittersweet. I think she lost her house, she was dismissed from Lucy Pearl, and had no claim to the En Vogue name. I still look back on if it was worth it.
I truly miss the original En Vouge. Such a shame they broke 💔 up. 😢 Well done on this 👏 story.
Never mistake someone's talent for their character.
Underrated comment 🏆
Yep. I’m shocked to hear about Luther’s behaviour.
@@notknown6605Me too Looks can be deceiving
I was 19 and can still fit my little black, "En Vogue" dress at 55. These sisters were our Dreamgirls ❤
💜
Real singers who could perform on the spot!
“We want the girls to be beautiful; but not TOO beautiful.” WHAT???
IKR! These ladies are top tier beauties.
Maybe they meant not slutty, having everything showing.
🙂It was a marketing strategy... The vast majority of women are not dime pieces or 10's... So if you had a group of average looking women that can really sing and dress it would be more inspirational/ relatable to all the average girls that are listening/ viewing them. Thus,cornering a larger market than four women who are EXTREMELY beautiful having a majority of women with the attitude of "them bitches not all that" when looking at them... But they somewhat missed the mark by having En Vogue all be light-skinned women instead of throwing a dark chocolate or two within the group because colorism was/is also big in the black community.....So yeah it was all a marketing strategy...
They are very beautiful women with enormous talent. I understand the girl next door look but to say "not too beautiful " reeks of misogyny.
Ikr 🥴😂🤣
They were the most beautiful girl group and had powerful voices
“everyone else was a bum” was crazyyy
No other female group has been able to touch them…PERIOD!!
You're right
PERIODT‼️❤️🔥‼️❤️🔥‼️
I wished En Vogue & Tony Toni Tone' had done a collaboration
well, they sorta did in a way. raphael of TTT and dawn of en vogue were in lucy pearl so that's abt as close as we got lol
@@reek.8505exactly🎉🎉🎉
That would be a dope tour
Great job putting this together.
Those girls did dawn wrong. Bless her she seems to have such a good soul and is still beautiful
I love Dawn's speaking voice
Q-Tip told everybody but nobody ever listens.
Industry Rule #4080
No doubt.
Record label people are SHADYYYY
💯🤦🏾♀️👹🤛🏾
That part
So many rappers of that time period had WORSE deals then what they got.
I knew Dawn personally after she left the group and dated Dre Allen. We hung out many times in her apartment or condo and on her birthday and after a lot of the gigs they performed in the Los Angeles area. One time Dawn’s dog was humping my leg. She had her gold records, just neatly against the wall on the floor. She really was a sweet person. I enjoyed her they were very kind. Dawn Robinson is extremely talented. Somehow, she can take her voice and make it sound like there are several people singing at the same time. Sadly, our mutual friend. Jason Pendleton died during Covid-19 just 3 days before his 40th birthday. By posting this, I hope to inform everyone of his passing. Jason was extremely attractive and ended up doing modeling in New York along with several TV shows like next on MTV not to mention Gerald Levert and Mariah Carey videos. RIP Jason! In fact, I’m considering doing a documentary of small one and using some of that video footage of all of us that I took on Dawn‘s birthday with her rabbit vehicle.
RIP to your friend Jason 🙏🏽
I Loved Lucy Pearl too Dawns voice can't miss
Damn never knew luther was such a diva like that great voice but no sir
He like men and affaires to come out about it what you expect 😂
Wow, they went through the same thing another girl group, TLC did.
Not only TLC many girl groups went through the same thing. There will be always one someone from management will go after. One woman is always placed above the rest. While one is always ignored. The only difference between this group and TLC. Is. Chilli dating Dallas Austin did not break them up and chilli never went solo
@@tamara_diamonds422 And TLC struck together and got what was rightfully theirs. T-Boz, Chilli and Left Eye didn't allow people to pull them apart. They also hired a manager who had the best interest at heart and fought for them. Bill Diggins, who helped them out of their situation, is still their manager till this day.
@@joshuamcdowell9745 🙄
Chilli was very smart and very loyal to the other two girls, who for the most part weren't even getting along themselves, but sided with one another when they should of and got their money in the end.
Jade, Xscape, En Vogue, Brownstone all went through the same thing, bad record deals, everyone getting rich around them whilst they're being paid pennies, but unlike TLC and even Salt N Pepa who had a similar situation, those groups all had internal conflicts that kept them from sticking as a united front to get what was rightfully their's.
Nicci Gilbert of Brownstone still talks about it on her socials, how she doesn't earn a penny from Brownstone's catalogue, Sony claim they still owe 5 million dollars on their contracts and even though Nicci wrote most of their songs, she has no control over their catalogue, often gets her videos removed if she uses their official audio and doesn't see a penny from her publishing deal, cos Sony take all the money.
Most ppl in the music industry do when you don’t read yo contract poor girls probably used the label entertainment lawyer smh
The original 4 were Amazing.
En Vogue should have went further and have more success if they would have banded together instead of allowing people to pull them apart. They made Dawn out to be the problem child but she had the most sense. Why would they go into their second album under the same contract as their first album? That was stupid. They got screwed over for real. Dawn, Cindy, Maxine and Terry should have taken more control the same way TLC did after the bankruptcy situation. The fact that En Vogue had the same management as their producers was a clear sign that they was being taken advantage of. How can you manage the group and the producers? They wasn't allow to write on their albums so they couldn't get publishing. Publishing could have helped sustain them. I know Dawn fell off financially and I think Maxine fell off financially as well. Cindy did okay because she married a baseball player and she was acting. Terry dating Denzil Foster made things difficult as well. He was able to manipulate her through pillow talk. $5,000 up front, another $5,000 after the album was finished, and two cents a record was a joke. Cindy and Terry treated Rhona like a side chick. Because of their decisions, they will be on the road forever. They never set themselves up for the future.
But the current line up fans totally don't want to admit any wrong doings or bad decision making of Terry and Cindy, they just blame it all on Dawn and say very disparaging things about Maxine, but never actually address any points like you have just raised. They will just attack the original group members and go on like the current line up and not only relevant but making moves....yet their 90s counterparts are either doing the same thing, or in a lot of cases doing them on a much bigger scale.
Xscape only had a fraction of the success En Vogue had, but look at the venues they've been doing and the money they've been making, SWV also.
@joshuamcdowell9745 They might like touring. And at least the got to keep the name En Vogue. I wonder how that happened.
@joshuamcdowell9745 And they get to keep the money from touring
@@marie-francoiset9402 They probably had to buy the name. TLC had to buy their name from Pebbles for $1 million a letter.
This is a well-done video! I’m from Richmond, CA, and I used to work at a beauty supply shop across the way from the studio where En Vogue apparently auditioned. Watching this video reminds me that, despite their immense talent, En Vogue was ultimately a manufactured group with no deep personal ties-they were coworkers, not sisters. Terry’s 'pillow talk' and the control Tommy and Denny had over the group often led them to work against their own interests. The final clip with EV3, where Terry explains Dawn’s departure, is particularly telling if you pay attention to Cindy’s and Maxine’s nonverbals. Lastly, I’m bemused that En Vogue’s music and impact aren’t more widely recognized and celebrated.
So true
These sistas were no joke. We haven't had a solid group that have matched up to them since.
I agree
“and Luther is fabulous“ 😅 shadyyyy
@ThePaigeMonece..... congrats for noticing that!
They were all fine and born to sing. Best female group of all time. Money is what drives the industry. There song 'lies' is so underrated.
They definitely were all beautiful queens and definitely one of the greatest girl groups of all time along with brownstone TLC And SWV.
All industry is driven by money.
@@dro2real836Geesh, these groups were unreplaceable.
@@efreeholdings1575 I miss those days that was just a good error for music. So different from how today is I couldn’t name or think of one girl group today I don’t know if there’s even any at all and the city girls don’t count lol but yeah, they were all great groups.
The girls did Dawn so wrong. I believe it’s jealousy.
I can’t wait for an official documentary where the other women tell their side of the story. Because they didn’t do Dawn wrong
@@brittlia_yes they did! They sold Dawn down the river bc she didn’t wanna give up on her plans of pursuing a solo career in favor of devoting all of her time and attention to EV3 they let Rhone, Foster & McElroy mind fuck them which Cindy and Max said in 2 different interviews 20+ years later that they wish they would’ve listened to Dawn.
@@brittlia_she was done wrong for being outspoken. If they all spoke up earlier, I believe they would’ve been able to make more money.
@@brittlia_I've heard their side. I still side with Dawn.
@@brittlia_ In live in Alabama dvd, Cindy herself said in the interviews on that about not sticking with Dawn was a mistake. She's said it more than that time also. Maxine has also said it several times over the years, how they were divided and pitted against one another, ambushed to sign an agreement on the spot. So I doubt their side would be much different, provided they were to be honest about what actually happened.
Good on MC Hammer for doing that! Every story I’ve heard about him, he has always been very thorough.
Definitely the most underrated Girl Group ALL TIME!!!
They were never underrated.
Listen, "Don't let go," still hits just as hard today💯
For my final fashion collection I used "Free your mind" as my runway song. It was electric! I remember how it took over the venue and the audience was enamored. I won best collection and the grabd prize that night.
I believe you ❤
@buhle1984 Congrats!! Are you still designing? Where can we see your clothes?
Awesome girl group. Sad how these managers always try to screw their artists over. I was in a guy group back in 2005. We had deals on the table by Sony and one with Universal. We had a friend who was a lawyer who advised not to sign the contract as we'd be artists working for no money and would go to the manager. After that our group seperated.
Wow!!! Thank God u didn't sign
This was my favorite group. I can never support after the way did Dawn. They have never had the same success without Dawn. In the words of Nene, you'll never win when you play dirty.
I had relatives (now deceased) from New London, CT.; Aunt Mary was a music teacher who taught Dawn, while Aunt Clara lived on the same street as Dawn & babysat her. They were both so happy for Dawn when the group hit it big!
They were all individually beautiful
They were IT!!!! 🙌🏾 … Dawn hair was iconic!
THE best female r&b group ever (next to TLC)! First time I heard them, I fell in love with their voices, synchronization, harmony, and flow. Nothing comes close nowadays - or ever. Sad they broke up.
_ Maxine Jones - free spirited hippie chick
- Cindy Herron - the beauty queen
- Terry was the Southern Belle
- Dawn Jones - the spark plug (my favourite)
I'm so happy you brought up that Amanda cole was briefly apart of the group. Many people didn't even know that and Amanda has some wicked pipes!! She can really sing sing and i'm sad she didn't get to make it big
*Dawn Robinson
Southern Belle, just because we're from the South doesn't mean that moniker fits 🤦🏾♀️. Terry and I grew up down the street from each other.
???????????@@JNante
@@cain1830 Meaning none of us consider ourselves southern belles in the way the general public defines it, like Scarlett O'Hara 🤣. Coy and innocent, we prefer the old dictionary definition, polite, extreme manners but that's us older folk not so much the newer younger generations.
These ladies were the epitome of talent. I was a little girl then. My big sister had all their albums
Same here. I Wana say I was about 5-8 during the height of their career. My sister wore their CASSETTE out
They do not get enough flowers cause baby them woman can sang
These women were already that good getting very little in return, imagine how big En Vogue would've been had they gotten the respect they deserved.....especially moneywise. Never underestimate what work can be achieved when you create proper motivation.
And I'm disappointed that only Dawn was willing to stand up for them. Their vocal harmonies is what makes the hits, not the production.....especially with Don't Let Go. The girls should've felt empowered like F.R.I.E.N.D.S. and Big Bang Theory and fight together. The girls have the real leverage, anyone in the game would've been thrilled to work with them. If only the rest of the girls believed that, not just Dawn.
Dawn was my absolute favorite. So beautiful, and her voice was amazing. ❤
Greatest female group of all time!! As far as singing. They were class, talent, dance, voice, beauty, poise, style and underrated. They didn't even win a Grammy!!
En Vogue was a force to be reckon with.
I can only imagine how musically powerful the ladies would have been had the snakes in suits not taken advantage of them. The possibilities would have been endless!! 4 beautifully talented women, who were just happy to be there, got pushed around and then torn apart. So incredibly sad.
I remember the first time I heard them, and watched 👀 one of their music videos on MTV, and I was hooked!! The sound, the look, how they carried themselves. We were blessed to have been able to hear their soulful and rich voices, but even just for a short time ❤
Dawn will forever be my favorite En Vogue, along with Whitney, Janet, Mariah, who I adored growing up.
Okay. .. Luther was being a shady queen. For NO reason.
Looking for this comment lol
Lol
same thing i said.
Honestly 😂
Blake: At that time, Gay people had to hide to please their band. However, people like Elton John, George Michael, Mike Jackson, Prince, & many other artists!
This was a terrific upload! En Vogue was a such a special group and my all-time favorite. Their impact and legend status are undeniable for me but the "what-ifs" truly outweigh what was. Thanks so much!
i'm sorry, but if it isn't Cindy, Dawn, Maxine and Terry, it isn't En Vogue and i'm not trying to see or hear it.
Exactly. I believe there is still a lot of resentment that they all need to work out. The past keeps creeping in and beating them all up. It's sad how the original En Vogue can't get back/stay together for too long...smh
I remember "En Vogue" on the show Roc. They were amazing!!!!!
I love that episode ❤ love them
Dang! Luther called the cops on the ladies? I had no idea he was petty like that.
What a loser!😂
He was a lady too remember 😂
@@AMess-r3pI read a story like this. It made it seem like the girls were the problem. I didn't know.
And Cindy was pregnant too.
I like Dawn A LOT
En Vogue one of my favorite groups in the 80s/90s. ❤ them.
There’s a long history of artist being so grateful to perform the art of music, that they become blind to the business of music. They sign binding agreements on the spot without ever having a contract attorney look at the financial aspects of it. The great Quincy Jones once said that the people who are making the money in the music business are those whose names are printed on the album cover in little bitty tiny letters.
I absolutely loved En Vogue. They were beautiful and could sang. My favorite girl group is The Jones Girls.
Yes, The Jones Girls are second to my all time faves, The Three Degrees.
@@TheRetroWoman80The Three Degrees are absolutely magical. So underrated.
They can sang❤
One of the most informative channels on black music history with in depth analysis. I can tell they do their research. Need yall to keep droppin
Man all of ENVOGUE was super fine!!! ❤
😎 It never fails...a producer always sleeps with a member(s) of the group... Then that's when the group starts to separate... not always but most of the time. 🎶
I have been a huge fan of En Vogue, from day one! They were very "CLASSY", all had Beautiful " VOICES" & "NATURAL" BEAUTY"'
SAY IT SIS!❤
Rona use to act on the Jamie Foxx show..
I remember her when she was on the Mickey Mouse club
@@crookedlettagurl601Same! She even sang What A Man on MMC
Rhona was a good singer too tho. Reasonable replacement. I kinda wish they all performed together.
They should tour with New Edition.
Thanks for the video. They are my favorite female group of all time. I learned to sing through them. Favorite songs are "Part Of Me" and "Don't Let Go". All of their work is amazing (with original members). The harmonies ...👏🏾...👏🏾...👏🏾...baby the harmonies 🎶. These women were born to sing.
Man the body language of Maxine and Cindy at the 27:27 mark was VERY telling. I wondering what that was about 👀
Especially Maxine. She was not feeling what Terry was saying.
🔥🔥🔥
Why did Maxine look at Terry like "why are you lying."
Having never met Maxine or Terry, suddenly you’re a body language expert?
Useful talent.
🤡
😂
She definitely doesn’t have much of a poker face.
@@damnnative3188 Shush. If you don't have discernment or did your research... just shush.
@@aleathacoleman6413 You’re delusional. Body language is fake.
Envogue was my favorite girl group of the 90s ! I hate the fact that record labels have been allowed to ripped off artists time & time again ! Their should have been laws in place to protect the artists!
They should have listened to Dawn. They were getting screwed.
Dawn is broke and living with elderly mom.
The current lineup continue to keep the brand alive, make money, tour and perform internationally.
Vilifying someone because they live with an elderly parent is low, and this is not the first time you have commented this. Also, Cindy and Terry may be making money, but have they paid off their debt yet to Rene from Rufftown Records? He sued them for millions for breach of contract. So if you know intimate details of how they are living and spending their money, let us know. Otherwise, chill out with the Dawn hate. You are bitter towards her--we get it
@@call_her_al
I’m not wrong.
@@Right_Direction_
Your sentence appears to be missing words [and factual statements] that might make it complete and perhaps intelligible.
You moved on from the En Vogue Craze group to the TH-cam comments section.
Solid career path. 👍🏽
@@Right_Direction_
Engaging in the same behaviour as the En Vogue Craze. 🤣
“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
I was at one of the 2008 shows at The Celebrity Theater here in Phoenix. They blew us away! I’ve always loved the original four together. I hate how producers and money often break up organically phenomenal groups. I’ll long for the original four to do something together again for the rest of my days 💕
I wish the original lineup would reunite and tour. I've seen the original lineup open for Luther...the Ladies were/are 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I adored these ladies so much growing up. I’m so blessed to have witnessed such class and grace. They were one of many influences that have molded me to the woman I am today.
I never knew there names only Dawn I learned a lot 🎉
I never forget when I met EnVogue, they just released EV3 and I got their autograph and I wanted to hug Cindy she gave me one
Thank you for this ❤. Ugh, the group was destroyed by corporate greed. $.02 is deplorable.
I remember the first time I saw the "hold on" video on BET video soul with Donnie Simpson. I was drooling like a baby seeing those ladies in those tight black dresses.
They were bad!!!! Beautiful and talented. Definitely some of my favorites from my teen years in the 90s. ❤
Luther was sassy af, I had no idea.
Huh?💯
I figured, but not to that degree…geesh.
Right! No colors? No diva wants to be outshined.
I remember him telling them no sequins and Luther justified it in an old ebony article.
Yes chile
I know what a diva!!!
This was a GREAT doc. So much never before seen footage.
I h8 how all these great groups always break up over money.😭😭😭
I had no idea they were the same duo that first produced Toni Tone Tony!!
These labels were seriously taking advantage of artists in the 90s. Exponentially.
Beautiful editing!
I loved all these groups but En Vogue was amazing! They were so beautiful and talented!
En Vogue was a huge part of the Black Renaissance of the 1990's
If all the members of En Vogue would have worked together as 1 united unite legally against the original producers and record label, all of them would have been Payed equally for all their hit albums, single records and royalties.
All these years folks were ragging on Dawn. All this time... Dawn WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG!
True💯
Their first album is iconic its my fav 😍
I just saw En vogue in July at yamaava omg even with 3 they are still off the chain. My favorite song Don't Go! These ladies are phenomenal!
Dawn voice is angelic, her brains are of a professor!
They are so Beautiful❤
Dawn was the star or the spicy in the group.
Mannnn I played that Born to Sing cassette till the tape popped! I just wish the original line up could've given us a Christmas album because that would be on heavy rotation to this day!
My favorite lady group of my era . Swv is my second . I had the biggest crush on all the women in this group 😊
Class and talent come back and do a show ! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾💋