i think the car industry should be held accountable for rust, here it is 60 years later and same problem with no solution yet. they brag how advanced we are but still have cars that rust and fall apart
We live in the Midwest and people still spend 45k+ on a vehicle when it’s just going to rust, I’ll stick with used and a bit of rust with a good engine, repair the spots as I go.
@@flowergarden1426 well the rust is more underneath where all the shocks, muffler, oil pan, trans pan, wheel bearings, etc also rust and fall apart costing a fortune to constantly keep fixing over and over
@@bradhernandez8834 , wasn't sure about how to feel about this style repair as always welded, but can see where less corrosion afterwards, so learned something new today
Excellent job. I had a high end body shop for 20 years. Started out for the first 8 in a barn doing restorations, overall paint jobs on Porsche mostly. Moved to the super highway and became the largest shop in all of the Western Part of my county out of over 250 other shops doing more business than any other. Did mostly all new car collision work. Had 11 full time people on the payroll. Okay, that's the end of my qualifications. My shop closed in 1995. Things have developed since then. First time I saw adhesive in conjunction with metal. Fascinating. You do nice work. Every step of the way I was thinking, and sure enough you address my every concern. For example filling the holes. Then when you did a rough sand on the first coat of putty, you attacked it with an air board on the subsequent coat. I was concerned that you did not do a final long board hand sand with 80, then sure enough you did. We used to use Nitro-Stan after a couple of coats of primer. It had more density than just primer itself, and then we needed to prime twice after that. I also like that you wore a mask most of the time. I was particular about that. I was in the hospital recently for what wound up to be no cause at all. They did a complete X Ray of my lungs and they were perfectly clear. I used to park a 20" box fan alongside of me when sanding bondo, so the air blew between me and the vehicle sending the dust sideways. I also got a fresh air supplied respirator for using in the booth when shooting urethanes with hardeners. The guys refused to use it. Anyhow, I subscribed to your channel, and appreciate your postings. I'm a fan.
I really appreciate your comment Bob. You know... they caught a small spot on my lung too about 5-6 years back and had x-rays done and a respiratory specialist do some other tests and everything came out clean too. I though after all the years of body work I was DONE but was surprised when talking to the doc if fine particles of dust would have accumulated in my lungs. Surprisingly he said "No" - that your body is engineered to keep that stuff from getting to the lungs. He was very convincing too - a very good specialist here in Detroit, MI Hopefully that give you even more comfort knowing that the years spend in the very dusty body shop environments hasn't taken any years off your life. Thanks for subscribing my friend and have a good weekend. Jerry
My cousin did high end write-off restorations all his life. He was awesome at it. He was one of those guys who did not like masks. His entire body rotted away with cancer; his bones turned into mush; docs inserted metal rods into his bones just so he could get another couple months... -- I did about 10 years of autobody in my garage with very cheap/basic safety measures about 40 years ago. (washing my hands with enamel reducer and lacquer thinner!!!) By 32 yrs old I was pretty sick, and quit and went natural. Still kicking. -- Chemicals have changed a lot since then, eg: water based paints, instead of isocyanide poison. -- Don't f**k around, guys.
I have a 1943 ford jeep that I rebuilt the body on in about 1980 to completion in about 1986. I used all ppg paints starting with dp 90 the black epoxy primer to seal all the ground down welded areas. I also tredated the surface rust areas on each side of the body parts. Next I used ppg sanding primer and body filler I believe rage was the name. Over the filler and primer, lots of leveling, and more primer, went more dp90 primer sealer, then I was in a hardened enamel stage of painting my cars, later I went to base coat clear coat and some single stage top coats then a single stage clearcoat because it can be put on thicker in my opinion and in my case you can sad it to a smoother finish mostly because then I never had a booth. Leveling the hardened enamel was a real chore and a cat cant scratch it but it does seem to chip a little easier. I have hardened enamel on the inner fender panels of a 1963 jeep gladiator still good since 1984. If I live long enough this is what I will be doing on my 1975 914 for the aftermarket inner stiffener panels and the steel fender flares. I found this as I have a once repaired area behind the door on a extended cab chev I bought that the rocker area is gone and I bought the repair panel that will get glued on at the body moulding indentation area and the normal flanges at either end. I believe this is the only right way to replace body panels if it is possible because welding heat ruins the metal and it will always be a question of when will the rust show back up. They have been glueing aluminum panels on livestack trailers for a really long time. I gotta get a better flange tool. I like tools.
@@LakesideAutobodyit's not the dust itself it's the toxic chemicals in the dust. The vapors from the wet filler, primer, etc. Glad y'all have been doing good health wise.
The best part about those adhesives is that they are corrosion inhibitors. Anywhere you put them, as long as the panel was prepped correctly, they are protected from corrosion. We use them at the body shop for certain applications. They're great. Especially if you're doing repairs at home and you don't have a welder. Great video
@@LakesideAutobody Since its cut open I would put some undercoating inside the best I could. Especially when using patch panels. Sometimes they end up being cheaply made and rust out easy just because of the manufacturing process. Cheap junk unless you have a worthy source and even with that sometimes its hit and miss.. Any pin hole and moisture would leak through. Not from the work you did but, perhaps on the original seams. Its amazing sometimes you can have a little rust hole and water and stuff get into the hole but, the hole is really doesn't grow much over years but, somewhere further in it rots to hell.
@@creativestudio4873 Here's what works for me to prevent future rust after the repair - th-cam.com/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/w-d-xo.html Have a good week my friend :)
If the glue stays flexible wont it crack the filler and paint? or is that not a problem? I want to try this on a VW bug but don't want to come back and have to repaint.
@@LymanTaiste I turned my 58 beetle into a pickup using the back of a dodge pickup cab i cut out with a cold chisel and hammer in 1968 using pop rivets and covered it with filler. It never showed a problem, I still have it, it has a hydraulic isky cam in a 67 bus 1500 motor with a 64 ac unit. It idles at 900rpm.
For those who is concerned about moisture creeping in between the over lap metal ... the panel adhesive isn't going to let that happen & the use of seam sealer on the back side also prevents that from happening ... the back side after panel is attached cleaned & seam sealed & primed & finishes coated with spray on undercoating works great ... we used this method at the body shop with no failures ... rust can show up in weird places the worst I've seen has always been under powder coated surface rust loves to creep under powder coating .. I taped off where the adhesive is going to be applied & clean , prep & prime any exposed bear metal before gluing panel stop rust before it has a foot hold .. food for thought to each their own
Rust is NOT MY POINT!!! I'ts the lap joint and the amount of bondo required.. It's just not the best way. You but weld and hammer, then Idealy lead.. Thin bondo is ok, but not ideal.. If you are using this method for collision repair on a Hyundi, by all means, make your money brother... If you a craftsman, working on a real car...JUST DONT!
Something to consider when installing patch panels regardless of the attachment method. Cut the rust out to good metal / some reasonable shape of cut then trim the patch panel to fit. If the patch rusts out in the future and was installed full size the first time, the rust might extend past the size of the patch making the 2nd repair difficult. This is especially true if the patch was welded / brazed on as this area tends to rust more than unaffected metal.
@@DD-mp9ok Lol, yes, I'm certain he was talking about bondo filling his own teeth. Who hasn't considered that 😅 All kidding aside, I wouldn't recommend 🤣
Don't I'm currently doing a sill where someone had just slapped another piece of metal on top and called it a day, trying to find the spot welds to drill them out is actually driving me insane
Absolutely blown away by the professional results!!! Would have liked to see the final paint! And I like those rivet screws WAY BETTER than tack welding and rivets, that's out already!! I also like the way you took the time and trouble to put some glue onto those rivets before sending them home, that's craftsmanship right there!!!
I'm still leaning towards welding my wheel arch panels, but these videos are all part of deciding what I'm going to do. Plus the filling and finishing are worth watching and learning. This channel is invaluable.
@@LakesideAutobodyIf the glue is so strong what is the purpose of the rivets? It seems it would be better to just run spot welds around the patch panel. The end result is the same. I will say though you did do a great job.
welding was the only way till these new adhesives came out. they have been using this type of metat to metal repair for years. the new cars have been glued together for a long time. when you weld the heat takes the properties out of the metal and makes it quickly rust especially on the inside where you cant treat it.
Thanks to you Jerry and this channel I am working on a 1996 Dodge Pickup using your teaching video's. So far so good and I have never done body work before. Next year I'm going to paint it myself!
Glad I stumbled onto your channel. I have a 2008 Silverado in Iowa that needs work. Thanks to you, now I know how to do it. I'll be checking back on this video as I go thru the process.
Mad mad skills. Dont be fooled kids, this guy is a seasoned pro. You will go through lots of body filler sanding before you get close to this level of finish. The great ones make it look so easy.
This is perfect for someone with a older work vehicle or daily driver, who maybe can't afford a body shop or the vehicle is just not worth much, but you want to hold on to it for a few more years.. Hell you could even rattle can the paint job. IMO , even a bad paint job, looks better than a rusted out body panel.
One more tool you could have used is a flanger to run around the cut out area before you glue the new piece into place that allows the new piece to be flush with the original panel. Just an idea. Works great for me.
Thanks for your input Don. How wide of a flange does your flange tool make? I'm concerned that the seam would not be wide enough. It holds well for you though?
Adding replacements for replacement panels, with glue!!! It looks great with the replacement panels. Nice work! I’m looking forward to the finished product!
@@daisyorpington784 it gets rid of rust creep on the panel. If we look at a rusting rock chip on a hood for example and remove just the surrounding paint we’ll see rust tendrils like spiders legs creeping back under what we perceived as good paint. On my old cars I would “fix” a spot then see a donut shaped rust build around the fix the next year. 🤷🏼♂️ Gotta get rid of that stuff.
Your videos are among the best on TH-cam your helping many people. Even the ones that’s been in the trade for a while. I know it takes a lot of time to do a video and we thank you.
Outstanding workmanship. Lakeside's tutorials have to be some of the best that TH-cam has to offer, a very valued source of info for us hobbyists as well as the pros.
Came back to this one, and I'm amazed at how solid the inner fender well still is for being in Michigan. Most of these trucks are missing metal halfway up the bed side. lol
Nice demonstration, something I've been very curious about. I got into body work in the late 70's (no longer am). Worked at shops using everything from rivets to welding with coat hangers. I was too fussy for the era, stuck to, frame straightening, finish work and painting. I see many advantages to the bounded repair and respect the care you put in your work. Thank You for sharing.
You still have to knock the seam down if you flange or the seam will show. If the seam is not tapped below the surface welded or glued it will likely fail.
@@LakesideAutobody I put a backing plate on the new panel (glue or weld), cut it flush with the area you're filling, cleco it for position the glue and pop rivet, grind off pop rivets flush, hardly need any bondo except to fill seams
I would have ran the air flange tool on the cutout instead of letting the metal overlap like you did. I was thinking of doing this exact repair on my truck, but still not sold on it. I know my weld won't fail. Time will tell how long the repair will last. looking forward to the final
After i let this stuff set on my Smyth Ute build , I had to jack the back of the car up for some underneath repairs. So I did the old twist test and jacked it up at the left rear suspension mounting point. The chassis was so stiff ,it came up level and I didn't have to go to the far side and jack it up to level it for the click I selected on the stands. Definitely came out way stiffer then the original chassis was.
Awesome video I did a similar repairs on my 2000 Chevrolet silverado. I used the 3m brand I was impressed how it bonds but most people don't know major auto companies were using products like this for years like Mercedes, BMW now all auto manufacturers are using it. I will use it again. Thank you for the great channel and the content it motivated me to finish my project.
@@JamesJones-rg3dn That's the main advantage of this method - the glue absolutely seals the lap joint - this will last as long as a new panel or longer if you do this - th-cam.com/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/w-d-xo.html
I commented recently on another channel about old school rust repair and this was how it was done except that the panels were brazed or riveted on then.This way is far better as the panels are sealed from behind. We cut out rust with the same tools shown, I have them all. This makes a fine repair on a daily driver. Nothing wrong with it at all.
I have been doing this type of work for fifty years. Your method requires much craftsmanship. Bud welding saves a lot of time. The maximum time for a nice bud well would be 15 min, Maybe 15 to 16 spots. I cut in between the metal to level out the surface evenly. One thin coat of fiberglass filler, glaze, and prime, then paint. 6 hours altogether to finish the job. Thanks for the video. You did great work! I am not criticizing you. God forbid, everyone works differently. Thank you for the video.
Very nice job! At first I thought, 'How's he going to blend the patch to the parent metal? He's not flanging the parent metal.' Now I know! Also glad you treated the wheel arch with (Por15?) rust preventative. Would love to see the painted vehicle.
Didn't look like the new panel was treated on the backside- don't want to be *that* guy, but why leave bare metal exposed on a panels underside if longevity is at all a concern
Which part of the video did he do that? Was it the filler or knocking down the area before the filler? I still couldn’t figure out the answer because I had the same question. I’m about to attempt this on my own old f150
@@Tallgeorge At (9:30 he began to grind/blend the patch panel to the original metal. And he allowed a generous "blend " area so the transition from old/new will be seamless once the filler is applied.
Nice job. As a teen I did some work on a 72 Bronco back in the late 70's. I didn't know anything and there was no internet to look at. My right hand fingers sometimes lock backwards from all the hand sanding I did. I wish some of the stuff you used had been available.
I have a 2010 chev that I was planning on welding in new repair panels, but now I think it's time to experiment a little and glue them on. Some of these new adhesives had their beginning in the space program and now are finding their way into other industries. This should be interesting for a 79 year old former shop owner. I will have to dig out my cleco's, hope I still have them. We'll see it should be fun.
A step up from the old days of shoving newspaper and screen then filling with bondo! But personally I will continue to weld in a complete new panel since I have perfected my installation procedures.
I use SEM Products and I think they are great. I have mostly used the MultiPurpose Panel Bond, ( the non Impact resistant) and a few different seam sealers. I usually only use the panel bond where the OEM had placed it or per the repair manual. Every time I seen patch panels glued to the seam and not welded especially in Northeast PA the adhesive will start to push on and out during winter and summer months and it will leave a ghost line. Have seen them ground down and tapped in on the seam and ev en tucked under. The panel bond, body filler, and primers, topcoats will all expand and retract at different rates. I would have glued the wheel wells and welded the rest. Tight coat of Duraglass or Everglass across the welded seams and filler. Then undercoat and Cavity Wax the hell out of the inner panel. Not knocking your repair skills at all. You definitely been in the game a long time and know what you are doing. That has just been my experiences both doing and seeing patch panels panel bonded at the seams.
Have you tried knocking the seam down and filling with fiberglass reinforced filler so that the seam is not right under the finish? I have never had a problem with ghost lines in glued repairs. See this follow up video on repairs that were glued 3 years ago - th-cam.com/video/gIS1Tbv7Kvw/w-d-xo.html Feel free to ask anything you need. One thing about glue is the water tight seam - never have to worry about it again :)
@@LakesideAutobody knocked the seam down, I have knocked them down with a belt sander. Some reason I always seen them come back. Good job on the channel. You describe everything really goodn
@@peteyjay85 I appreciate the support Pat. If you ever use glue again, whack that seam down with a pick type body hammer so that that seam is at least 1/8" below the original surface. Your filler is now a buffer between the seam and the finish - no more worries about ghost lines showing up :)
@@nickking1510 a properly done weld does not weaken the base metal. And the new cars body is all structural most are unit body so welding is most definitely the best way to repair them. I flange the panel or weld at a body line and use almost no bondo. A lot of my repairs only require high build primer to finish the repair line
@@holmes1956O no it does not weaken it buy it burns off any coating on the old sheet metal which rust quick. So here in Ontario with high humidity in nice weather and salt on roads the rest of the year is to oil undercoat the entire car or truck and any body repairs as soon as the paint dry lolo
Thank you for showing me this new fangles procedure. I lost one eyeball and most of my other eyeball so I can't weld anymore. But hooray, I can use this glue technique to repair my rusted out truck bed. Wow, I can't say thank you enough.
I glad it helped you out my friend - feel free to ask any ?s as you go. Here's a follow up on this repair too - th-cam.com/video/t1WclT_GMvk/w-d-xo.html
Here's a cab corner w JB Weld but you can use this adhesive instead if you prefer - this method holds up real well - th-cam.com/video/wRl1QfkrBeY/w-d-xo.html
I did my 2011 f150 but I welded (wire feed ) my rockers and cab corners but the back side off corners behind the cab I used epoxy structural body panel bonder because I had no way to remove my box easily it worked great . The f150 can be set on fire welding back of the cab also lolo. Once the paint dries I sprayed entire truck including inside of rockers and cab corners with oil thinned with mineral spirits
@@LakesideAutobody as a teen till 22 I worked full time part time while going to school and college at a small town chev olds dealership restoring used trades and in body collision shop back then we brazed sheet metal what a warping mess lolol car undercoat fires quickly extinguished lolo . Once we had a traded 1970 yellow Grand Prix and a customer 1970 yellow Grand Prix in for brakes guess what the boss told the head body man to prep and paint the traded Grand Prix lolo instead he ran the customers in the body shop we sanded and prepped and painted it at the end of the day next day the mistake was realized the owner boss walked away saying I just can believe it several times . The customer was happy free paint job to his badly stone chipped car and then a brake job with 20% reduction in quote . Bill our boss was a great guy and sadly died in 1976 as a result of a car accident some months before at age 34 . I Thank Bill many times for allowing me opportunity to work and learn skills which have save me many$$ it was a great addition to shop class in school .
Amazing job! Have a S10 that needs a wheel arch replacement and this might be the way to go w/o welding (extra gas tank RIGHT behind the panel). LOVE the fasteners you used being able to just squeexe them off. LEARNED A LOT from this video - thanks and READY TO DO IT!!!
I really would not like body work if it wasn't for finding out about the cheese grater blade. It really cuts down on the sanding, dust and hard work. Thanks for your input David - have a good week :)
@@davidbires2351 You're welcome David - feel free to ask questions if you need to. I have another one coming up on gluing lower quarter patch panels - that may help a bit too :)
You can do that if you want. My thinking is this --- "You can't flange the lip so why flange the big open area?" I like to have one method that works every time on every hole. Hope that makes sense - Jerry
Thank you for the vid. I learned how this is done right. I have been experimenting with gluing on panels on my trucks for some time now with so so results. I was missing some crucial steps.
Great video. I have a 1988 Ford Econoline with windows all around. I intend painting it in a few months and would love to fill in the windows but doing it the traditional way of spot welding my way around something like 30 ft of seam and then spot grinding same puts me off. It'd just take forever. Rather than have the panels cut to the exact size of the holes for welding in, do you think having them cut say, 1/2" bigger all around and gluing them in place would be a good idea? Thanks.
Make sure you have about 1" to apply adhesive. I believe it would work just fine. Do a test window first if you want. Heck, glue it on with JB weld just to see - th-cam.com/video/wRl1QfkrBeY/w-d-xo.html - still perfect after almost 3 years.
I'm impressed,I really thought it was gonna look hacked but it's not bad at all. Thanks for sharing because I have some projects I can apply this to. You saved me time and cash.
A lot of shops in Michigan have been using glue for rust repair for some years now. It really is probably the best method because of the water tight seam. Sometimes you just have to weld though so... that's good to know too. Happy New Year 🎉
This method would seem to be more water proof. Not to worry about pinholes. But either way I appreciate the amount of work you have to do for this repair, nice work!
It's really your choice - I like both ways. In my mind both are quality repairs. I just wanted to show how to do this method at this particular time. In the future I'll weld one on. Both methods are excellent for rust repair :)
The Panel Bonding adhesive is as strong or stronger than a conventional weld with no panel warping. I live in Ontario Canada and have used this method several times for replacing rocker panels with no issues years later.
Nicely done Jerry! I've only tried adhesive once so far, on a replacement cab corner. I didn't want to deal with removing the bed, which meant the MIG gun couldn't get to that part in between. Did a combo of MIG from the rocker, up around and across the face of the corner and glue the rest of the way. I stuck a wet paper towel over the joint where the glue ended so the heat from the MIG wouldn't affect the adhesion. Seemed to work out just fine
That's a heck of a good plan using the wet towel. I am keeping that in mind because there are times when a hybrid patch like that could be beneficial. Good stuff Icar! Have a good weekend my friend :)
I'm a 68 year old American man. My Dad is 93 and has an old beater GMC Jimmy. The fenders were all rusted up from the wells but not to far. I boughs a roll of vinyl baseboard and self tapping sheet metal screws and customized it.
Gee, I used to drop the tank and weld them in. The guy I trained under used to just make the panels out of washing machines using a torch, hammer and wet rag. Barely used any bondo.
The panel lap line will show in a few months after expanding (hot weather) and contracting (cold weather).Steel, epoxy and polyester filler( Bondo) expand and contract at different rates. So the outline of the patch will be visible after cycling a few months unless it's buried in excess 1/4" of duraglass and or Bondo. Too much IMO. Also.. i have done collision resto and fab for 48-9 years and have never ever "pop" riveted a repair panel especially using aluminum rivets on steel panels. Plug welding the kleeko holes would have been a better choice. Disimilar metals aren't compatible and will start to oxide at the first wiff of moisture. Lastly.. polyester primers (eg. feather fill ) are not direct to metal or recommended over bare metal surfaces without proper (DTM) protective undercoats due to their poor adhesion lack of corrosion resistance and porosity. Essentially the reason we don't use lacquer primer anymore. Believe it not moisture will penetrate thru even the best clear/bascoat/single stage/ primer/Bondo and when it reaches bare (under the filler) metal you get iron oxide better known as rust under it all!. I'm not knockin the repair because welded or bonded new metal is still better and longer lasting than a cave and pave (tiger hair, duraglass, Bondo) technique but flanging the panel using weld thru primer and continuous spot welding would make for a better longer lasting repair. This would be acceptable repair for folks witho ut a mig welder obviously. Bonding works VERY well on roof skins bedsides and doorskins but the mfgs. Still recommends SPRs fasteners or spot mig welds to prevent panel breakaway.
Here's a follow up video 3 years later on this method and others found in major body shops in SE Michigan or Detroit area ( the rust belt) - th-cam.com/video/gIS1Tbv7Kvw/w-d-xo.html
You can do whatever you want time will tell what happens it could last a few months or a life time losts of factors ivolved. If you live in a dry climate it should be ok. Only time will tell.also depends if it's in an area that takes pressure. That will cause the patch to fail or crack were it was patched. There's always the right way the cheat way the save money way and your way. I know he wasn't building a show truck
While yes there is so much wrong with this repair. And I agree with all your points. In 99% of cases...when done properly...the seam line will not show. And actually a glued panel avoids many of the pitfalls of a welded repair. And face it some jobs, the investment is not worth it. And to anyone reading these comments contemplating this job. Find another video.The first tell of someone "just getting by" is they mix their adhesives and fillers on cardboard. We knew better than to do that 40 years ago
@@jimk4267 Many very good body shops are using adhesives along with OEM - Check this video out for longevity of this method and others. th-cam.com/video/gIS1Tbv7Kvw/w-d-xo.html
Some new commercial vans are gluing quater panels on now.when you rip that seam sealer off there's no spot welds just a bonded glued on big quater panel.couldt believe it the first time I seen it.
Another tip when you prep to glue the panel. After grinding the back of the patch panel run a piece of tape along the edge of the area that you just ground down and paint the patch panel up to the tape with POR-15. Just to make sure the metal isn't exposured to the air. And I would do the same on the truck box. Treat the rust with rust treatment and paint with POR-15 and even use a Schutz gun to spray undercoating or truck bedliner. I did all that to a chevy truck 10years ago and it's still solid.
@@LakesideAutobody So true. I honestly think using panel bond is a better way of doing rust repair patches because when you use a welder and weld through primer you are adding heat to the metal so anything you have on the metal for rust proofing tends to burn off then you have bare metal exposed to air. And no matter how much you try to coat the backside of the repair with rust proofing you always miss something. I've seen welded repairs having to be redone in 1.5year later. But repairs using panel bond 10years ago still going strong and yet they will not teach this technic in any trade school. Sometimes you have no choice but to weld but its amazing how far structural panel bond has come.
Excellent. You did me a big favor...now that I see what is needed to get these results, I now feel clear in my decision to turn it over to a pro instead of doing it myself. This would require more time, tools, and skill than I am willing to invest to just do my one vehicle. I had a strong feeling my friend was over-confident about how "easy" it would be to do it myself.
👍🏻Another great demonstration! I see the pros and cons for both ways (welding and gluing) but what’s your preferred way? Looks like there’s a few coats of paint on that quarter panel.
My preferred way is MIG weld it, knock it down, fill. It's fast, and holds up well. If I had to guess which would last longer - I'd say this method. It did have a ton of paint - thus the feather fill :)
I have 8 classic cars I've bought to restore and most need panels and it's the welding that I don't like, Ive been researching glues and most new cars are now all glued together as in my building homes I've been gluing for 20 years with great results
I appreciate your input George - I do believe this method can last as long or longer than new as this patch panel is 18 gauge as you can see how hard I had to hit it to "tap" the seam down :)
@@LakesideAutobody l was impressed my friend has been using a 2 part epoxy system and trying to get me to try,, only hold back for me is I'm doing classic cars and trying to use as little of body filler as possible and don't butt welds to conseal repair and laps but it sure would make my life easier with so much panel work ahead of me.
@@georgespangler1517 It can't hurt to know all the methods of rust repair - each repair is different and you will pick up speed by using the appropriate method for each situation.
@@LakesideAutobody so far it's been to cut it all out and fit new peace excactly and mig weld it completely in making a surface as smooth as possible with little filler, it's time consuming and even nerve racking , and now even makes it hard to get started knowing what's ahead
@@georgespangler1517 I've worked at 4 different shops over a career in the metro Detroit area - lots of rust. The shops I worked at were considered very good quality shops and the method of rust repair was always the same: - lap weld (MIG), knock down the seam, fill. Please see this video for why they do it this way. It may make your life a lot easier. th-cam.com/video/JIIonJOVro4/w-d-xo.html
I've done something similar like that on my 98 Pathfinder when I used to have it had a lot of rust everywhere but I didn't do it your way I ended up just putting out the garage just by using a cutter from Harbor Freight and then when I was done with it I ended up having a piece of cardboard and recreated offender by placing it on a piece of metal shaping the metal welding back to metal and then repainted and boy that truck looking very beautiful and I was done
@@LakesideAutobody that’s why I oil all my cars my self annually and touch up when doing oil changes my cars last and last . I also touch them up annually also in my garage paint shop but you cans do a nice job using dupilcolour and painting out side on a dry day in the shade and get professional results done many many times all my 15 + year old cars look like new . My hobby is getting older newer cars and doing mini restoration and touch up paint correction mechanical repairs nice wax job car like new lolol and no payments lolo just did a 2011 f150 4x4 it turned out like new been driving it for just over a week
Here's a playlist with all methods I've seen working at various shops. If you have another that works let me know - th-cam.com/play/PLOP9eoG14-I-qu68_805bZaOnmkdlv6Ys.html
I popped riveted mine on and i actually like the look considering it’s a ole work truck but this seems like a easy fix also for someone just wanting a inspection sticker and keep there truck going another years
Don't need to and you shouldn't as paint traps moisture. Drainage and this is the answer and nothing else - promise - th-cam.com/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/w-d-xo.html see this too for the follow up - th-cam.com/video/t1WclT_GMvk/w-d-xo.html
"Don't need to as paint traps moisture". Now I know you can't be serious. Proof coating parts with body deadener actually stops rust & corrosion & that's exactly the reason you had to patch panel this time - because the underbody was never treated originally. We work differently here in Australia & would have done the job properly by stitch welding the sheet metal. If it wasn't for huge amounts of filler to save your job, you'd never have gotten a descent finish at all!
You have motivated me to take on this DIY project for my 2011 Silverado before the rust creep goes too far. Awesome content and well done. Lots of great Q&A too- thanks for that. I'm building up my supply list, so I am curious how much filler, primer, paint, clear coat it takes to do a truck rear quarter panel. I'm looking at Raybucks panels which I think will work, but wonder if you know of panels that have more height in case the rust creep has gone too far.
Another place you might try is millsupply.com but I think they're the same size. You should be OK though - what you see on the outside is usually close to what is rusted on the inside - you might cut out an inch or two more. Filler is not to expensive so get a gallon. primer, paint, clear - you'll need a quart of each - you could probably get away with a pint of paint though. If you think you might enjoy doing the work, might as well get enough primer, paint and clear to do the whole truck - you can do one panel at a time if you want :)
@@LakesideAutobody Thanks for the feedback! I should have also asked where you recommend getting the paints, adhesive, and other supplies? Raybuck is touting a no mix adhesive called Silaprene. Had any experience with it?
@@jeffrichards8054 I have not used the Silaprene but I'll check it out - maybe do a video on it. All the supplies, tools, etc. are listed in the video description. If something is missing let me know - I think it's all listed :)
Project coming along, albeit slowly.. Driver side inner and outer panels installed, knocked down, filled, and ready to prime. Took out taillight and discovered the structure back there is pretty rusted out. Do you know if that is available as an aftermarket piece that could be glued in? So far I have not found one. Or do I have to fabricate it?
@@jeffrichards8054 Most likely you'll have to fabricate something. Remember, you don't have to build it like the factory - they failed. You build it so it's strong enough but has massive drainage ability. Who cares what the inner panels look like as long as they do their job and don't trap moisture and debris. Let me know if that makes sense and makes your job a bit easier :)
They have those repair panels too. You can add new metal if you'd like too. I don't mind leaving it alone too - see this video for more - th-cam.com/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/w-d-xo.html
i think the car industry should be held accountable for rust, here it is 60 years later and same problem with no solution yet. they brag how advanced we are but still have cars that rust and fall apart
You're right - they do absolutely no research in ways to prevent it. It can be prevented too with some innovative design :)
We live in the Midwest and people still spend 45k+ on a vehicle when it’s just going to rust, I’ll stick with used and a bit of rust with a good engine, repair the spots as I go.
@@flowergarden1426 well the rust is more underneath where all the shocks, muffler, oil pan, trans pan, wheel bearings, etc also rust and fall apart costing a fortune to constantly keep fixing over and over
cars been around more that 60 years more like over 125 years
Its worse than ever. Most affordable new vehicles nowadays have engines and transmissions that will fail long before they will rust.
Been doing this for years. Much better than welding, no warping and a continuous sealed seam. Haven't had a comeback yet!
Thanks a lot for your input Brad. It never has failed me either. Works real well. Have a good week :)
@@bradhernandez8834 , wasn't sure about how to feel about this style repair as always welded, but can see where less corrosion afterwards, so learned something new today
Excellent job. I had a high end body shop for 20 years. Started out for the first 8 in a barn doing restorations, overall paint jobs on Porsche mostly. Moved to the super highway and became the largest shop in all of the Western Part of my county out of over 250 other shops doing more business than any other. Did mostly all new car collision work. Had 11 full time people on the payroll. Okay, that's the end of my qualifications. My shop closed in 1995. Things have developed since then. First time I saw adhesive in conjunction with metal. Fascinating. You do nice work. Every step of the way I was thinking, and sure enough you address my every concern. For example filling the holes. Then when you did a rough sand on the first coat of putty, you attacked it with an air board on the subsequent coat. I was concerned that you did not do a final long board hand sand with 80, then sure enough you did.
We used to use Nitro-Stan after a couple of coats of primer. It had more density than just primer itself, and then we needed to prime twice after that.
I also like that you wore a mask most of the time. I was particular about that. I was in the hospital recently for what wound up to be no cause at all. They did a complete X Ray of my lungs and they were perfectly clear. I used to park a 20" box fan alongside of me when sanding bondo, so the air blew between me and the vehicle sending the dust sideways. I also got a fresh air supplied respirator for using in the booth when shooting urethanes with hardeners. The guys refused to use it.
Anyhow, I subscribed to your channel, and appreciate your postings. I'm a fan.
I really appreciate your comment Bob. You know... they caught a small spot on my lung too about 5-6 years back and had x-rays done and a respiratory specialist do some other tests and everything came out clean too. I though after all the years of body work I was DONE but was surprised when talking to the doc if fine particles of dust would have accumulated in my lungs. Surprisingly he said "No" - that your body is engineered to keep that stuff from getting to the lungs. He was very convincing too - a very good specialist here in Detroit, MI Hopefully that give you even more comfort knowing that the years spend in the very dusty body shop environments hasn't taken any years off your life. Thanks for subscribing my friend and have a good weekend. Jerry
My cousin did high end write-off restorations all his life. He was awesome at it. He was one of those guys who did not like masks. His entire body rotted away with cancer; his bones turned into mush; docs inserted metal rods into his bones just so he could get another couple months...
-- I did about 10 years of autobody in my garage with very cheap/basic safety measures about 40 years ago. (washing my hands with enamel reducer and lacquer thinner!!!) By 32 yrs old I was pretty sick, and quit and went natural. Still kicking.
-- Chemicals have changed a lot since then, eg: water based paints, instead of isocyanide poison.
-- Don't f**k around, guys.
I have a 1943 ford jeep that I rebuilt the body on in about 1980 to completion in about 1986. I used all ppg paints starting with dp 90 the black epoxy primer to seal all the ground down welded areas. I also tredated the surface rust areas on each side of the body parts. Next I used ppg sanding primer and body filler I believe rage was the name. Over the filler and primer, lots of leveling, and more primer, went more dp90 primer sealer, then I was in a hardened enamel stage of painting my cars, later I went to base coat clear coat and some single stage top coats then a single stage clearcoat because it can be put on thicker in my opinion and in my case you can sad it to a smoother finish mostly because then I never had a booth. Leveling the hardened enamel was a real chore and a cat cant scratch it but it does seem to chip a little easier. I have hardened enamel on the inner fender panels of a 1963 jeep gladiator still good since 1984. If I live long enough this is what I will be doing on my 1975 914 for the aftermarket inner stiffener panels and the steel fender flares. I found this as I have a once repaired area behind the door on a extended cab chev I bought that the rocker area is gone and I bought the repair panel that will get glued on at the body moulding indentation area and the normal flanges at either end. I believe this is the only right way to replace body panels if it is possible because welding heat ruins the metal and it will always be a question of when will the rust show back up. They have been glueing aluminum panels on livestack trailers for a really long time. I gotta get a better flange tool. I like tools.
@@LakesideAutobodyit's not the dust itself it's the toxic chemicals in the dust. The vapors from the wet filler, primer, etc. Glad y'all have been doing good health wise.
@@millcrafters Got to have that ventilation !
The best part about those adhesives is that they are corrosion inhibitors. Anywhere you put them, as long as the panel was prepped correctly, they are protected from corrosion. We use them at the body shop for certain applications. They're great. Especially if you're doing repairs at home and you don't have a welder. Great video
Thanks D.A.L. - you're right about that. The best thing is the seam is 100% sealed for ever.
@@LakesideAutobody Since its cut open I would put some undercoating inside the best I could. Especially when using patch panels. Sometimes they end up being cheaply made and rust out easy just because of the manufacturing process. Cheap junk unless you have a worthy source and even with that sometimes its hit and miss.. Any pin hole and moisture would leak through. Not from the work you did but, perhaps on the original seams. Its amazing sometimes you can have a little rust hole and water and stuff get into the hole but, the hole is really doesn't grow much over years but, somewhere further in it rots to hell.
@@creativestudio4873 Here's what works for me to prevent future rust after the repair - th-cam.com/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/w-d-xo.html Have a good week my friend :)
If the glue stays flexible wont it crack the filler and paint? or is that not a problem? I want to try this on a VW bug but don't want to come back and have to repaint.
@@LymanTaiste I turned my 58 beetle into a pickup using the back of a dodge pickup cab i cut out with a cold chisel and hammer in 1968 using pop rivets and covered it with filler. It never showed a problem, I still have it, it has a hydraulic isky cam in a 67 bus 1500 motor with a 64 ac unit. It idles at 900rpm.
For those who is concerned about moisture creeping in between the over lap metal ... the panel adhesive isn't going to let that happen & the use of seam sealer on the back side also prevents that from happening ... the back side after panel is attached cleaned & seam sealed & primed & finishes coated with spray on undercoating works great ... we used this method at the body shop with no failures ... rust can show up in weird places the worst I've seen has always been under powder coated surface rust loves to creep under powder coating .. I taped off where the adhesive is going to be applied & clean , prep & prime any exposed bear metal before gluing panel stop rust before it has a foot hold .. food for thought to each their own
Thanks for your input Lee 😊
I live in Michigan we know rust 😂
No failures? For how long? Weld it. It's cheaper. It's faster and lasts forever. It just requires some skill.
Corrosion Free 3000.....spray door bottoms, rockers, and panel backsides....spring and fall....zero rust....migrates better than anything I have seen
Rust is NOT MY POINT!!! I'ts the lap joint and the amount of bondo required.. It's just not the best way. You but weld and hammer, then Idealy lead.. Thin bondo is ok, but not ideal.. If you are using this method for collision repair on a Hyundi, by all means, make your money brother... If you a craftsman, working on a real car...JUST DONT!
Something to consider when installing patch panels regardless of the attachment method. Cut the rust out to good metal / some reasonable shape of cut then trim the patch panel to fit.
If the patch rusts out in the future and was installed full size the first time, the rust might extend past the size of the patch making the 2nd repair difficult. This is especially true if the patch was welded / brazed on as this area tends to rust more than unaffected metal.
Thanks for the logic Bob - good advice :)
@@originalmicdrop Kinda like brushing your teeth; you need to bondo daily.
@@MrTemplerage huh?
@@DD-mp9ok Lol, yes, I'm certain he was talking about bondo filling his own teeth. Who hasn't considered that 😅
All kidding aside, I wouldn't recommend 🤣
Don't I'm currently doing a sill where someone had just slapped another piece of metal on top and called it a day, trying to find the spot welds to drill them out is actually driving me insane
What you do with body work is years of experience. It’s like magic. Beautiful work. Thanks Lakeside!! 👍
You're welcome DC - I appreciate the support my friend - have a good week and take care :)
Absolutely blown away by the professional results!!! Would have liked to see the final paint! And I like those rivet screws WAY BETTER than tack welding and rivets, that's out already!! I also like the way you took the time and trouble to put some glue onto those rivets before sending them home, that's craftsmanship right there!!!
th-cam.com/video/HIW0-Zib3fU/w-d-xo.html
I'm still leaning towards welding my wheel arch panels, but these videos are all part of deciding what I'm going to do. Plus the filling and finishing are worth watching and learning. This channel is invaluable.
I appreciate the kind words Keith. Always feel free to ask ?s - I get to them every day :)
Far quicker and less waste and cheaper to not to mention cutting off all that good metal is ridiculous.
Seems easier to just weld it
@@LakesideAutobodyIf the glue is so strong what is the purpose of the rivets? It seems it would be better to just run spot welds around the patch panel. The end result is the same. I will say though you did do a great job.
welding was the only way till these new adhesives came out. they have been using this type of metat to metal repair for years. the new cars have been glued together for a long time. when you weld the heat takes the properties out of the metal and makes it quickly rust especially on the inside where you cant treat it.
Thanks to you Jerry and this channel I am working on a 1996 Dodge Pickup using your teaching video's. So far so good and I have never done body work before. Next year I'm going to paint it myself!
That makes my day Richard - keep it up and let me know how it goes for you. Ask any ?s you have too :)
@@LakesideAutobody I intend to buddy. Thank you!
This is actually artwork, I could watch you work all day. A true professional craftsman of the modern era im tipping my hat to you, Sir.
Thanks a lot Big Dad - I appreciate the kind words. It is the modern era too - throw out - buy new!
Glad I stumbled onto your channel. I have a 2008 Silverado in Iowa that needs work. Thanks to you, now I know how to do it. I'll be checking back on this video as I go thru the process.
Thanks for checking in - feel free to ask any ?s - I get to them every day - usually at night :)
Mad mad skills. Dont be fooled kids, this guy is a seasoned pro. You will go through lots of body filler sanding before you get close to this level of finish. The great ones make it look so easy.
Thanks for the kind words Ray. I've gone through that body filler you're talking about. I've got some funny stories about it too 👍🤣
Totally agree! If anyone can make a mess out of bondo it's me.
This is perfect for someone with a older work vehicle or daily driver, who maybe can't afford a body shop or the vehicle is just not worth much, but you want to hold on to it for a few more years.. Hell you could even rattle can the paint job. IMO , even a bad paint job, looks better than a rusted out body panel.
Now if they’d just make glue-on unibody patch panels, haha!
basically a good method...no welding tools required....good video..tanks!
Jesus this will make any body guy worth their salt cringe with discust.decent prep work just forgot the MIG.clecos have been around forever.
@@The_sinner_Jim_Whitney make up
@@JoeRocket-sf6qs panel bond is used on 90% of modern cars. Disgust* btw
I landed here mysteriously...but watched until the end. I couldn't look away...exquisite work.
Thanks George - I appreciate you stopping by and checking out the video :)
One more tool you could have used is a flanger to run around the cut out area before you glue the new piece into place that allows the new piece to be flush with the original panel. Just an idea. Works great for me.
Thanks for your input Don. How wide of a flange does your flange tool make? I'm concerned that the seam would not be wide enough. It holds well for you though?
great idea, saves time and filler
Why wouldn't one just leave ALL the panel? Why did you just leave an inch? For the glue strip? Just curious.
Adding replacements for replacement panels, with glue!!! It looks great with the replacement panels. Nice work!
I’m looking forward to the finished product!
@@daisyorpington784 it gets rid of rust creep on the panel.
If we look at a rusting rock chip on a hood for example and remove just the surrounding paint we’ll see rust tendrils like spiders legs creeping back under what we perceived as good paint.
On my old cars I would “fix” a spot then see a donut shaped rust build around the fix the next year. 🤷🏼♂️
Gotta get rid of that stuff.
Glad to see gloves and eye protection. Something you don’t normally see on you tube
👍😊
😆
Your videos are among the best on TH-cam your helping many people. Even the ones that’s been in the trade for a while. I know it takes a lot of time to do a video and we thank you.
I appreciate that my friend. Glad you enjoy them and you are very welcome. Have a great weekend :)
At the 6:30 mark, those are clecos & cleco pliers available at most aircraft supply stores.
Outstanding workmanship. Lakeside's tutorials have to be some of the best that TH-cam has to offer, a very valued source of info for us hobbyists as well as the pros.
Thanks 👍 Michael - I appreciate the support - have a good weekend :)
Absolutely the best body work channel. I replaced both of my rocker panels on my 2010 F150 after watching his videos!
@@RPB-nx7vj Thank you so much RPB. I appreciate the support and nice job taking that job on :)
I agree. He makes videos of alternative methods of repairs and you can see how they turn out and what is right for you with the tools you have.
Came back to this one, and I'm amazed at how solid the inner fender well still is for being in Michigan. Most of these trucks are missing metal halfway up the bed side. lol
Nice demonstration, something I've been very curious about. I got into body work in the late 70's (no longer am). Worked at shops using everything from rivets to welding with coat hangers. I was too fussy for the era, stuck to, frame straightening, finish work and painting. I see many advantages to the bounded repair and respect the care you put in your work. Thank You for sharing.
You're welcome Dionne - have a good end of the week 🏈
Plus I always do the first coats with fiberfill fiberglass cuz it's so much stronger than Bondo and then go over with Bondo
Yeah I have to agree, my first coat there would have been Evercoat metal2metal. That aside, what an awesome repair. Def appreciate the video.
az ilyen munkat szeretem nezni gratulalok a munkasnak nem taknyolas ganyolas igazi mestermunka!!!
Köszönöm. Kedves tőled, hogy mondod :)
this guy I have seen for years …. Great body man !!!
I have done a ton of these repairs I always flange the patch panel other wise you have to use Bondo.
You still have to knock the seam down if you flange or the seam will show. If the seam is not tapped below the surface welded or glued it will likely fail.
@@LakesideAutobody I put a backing plate on the new panel (glue or weld), cut it flush with the area you're filling, cleco it for position the glue and pop rivet, grind off pop rivets flush, hardly need any bondo except to fill seams
What type of filler did you use? Looks like it spreads nicer than “Bondo”
Average time to fo complete job on 1 panel?
This is not just great craftsmanship but a work of art. I can't use Super Glue without sticking my fingers together. Well done, sir.
Thanks. Well... one time I glued my teeth together trying to open the super glue with my mouth/teeth 😊
You type well with your thumbs ,Sir
I would have ran the air flange tool on the cutout instead of letting the metal overlap like you did. I was thinking of doing this exact repair on my truck, but still not sold on it. I know my weld won't fail. Time will tell how long the repair will last. looking forward to the final
Airplanes are put together with similar panel bonders and go through a lot harsher conditions
After i let this stuff set on my Smyth Ute build , I had to jack the back of the car up for some underneath repairs.
So I did the old twist test and jacked it up at the left rear suspension mounting point.
The chassis was so stiff ,it came up level and I didn't have to go to the far side and jack it up to level it for the click I selected on the stands.
Definitely came out way stiffer then the original chassis was.
It's great to see you sharing your skills to the world which will inspire younger people to what to follow your career.
Thanks for the support Paul. I appreciate the kind words :)
Awesome video I did a similar repairs on my 2000 Chevrolet silverado. I used the 3m brand I was impressed how it bonds but most people don't know major auto companies were using products like this for years like Mercedes, BMW now all auto manufacturers are using it. I will use it again. Thank you for the great channel and the content it motivated me to finish my project.
Thanks for sharing - I glad the videos helped motivate you to finish. You're very welcome and have a good weekend :)
3m 8115 product is suppose to be a great product. Picked up some to do this repair.
Excellent job Bud!! Epoxies and Adhesives have come a long way in the last few decades!!☺
Thanks 👍 RK
Way would you do the hard part to end up with a poor finish
Bulges where there should not be doesn't make sense ?
@@johnhall3827 You'll see the finished product this Friday 10/22/2021 - you'll like it :)
Seems to me within a year the water will invade that overlap joint and start rusting again
@@JamesJones-rg3dn That's the main advantage of this method - the glue absolutely seals the lap joint - this will last as long as a new panel or longer if you do this - th-cam.com/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/w-d-xo.html
Only one thought to add, make sure the rivets you use are steel. If they are aluminum they'll cause more rust down the road.
I commented recently on another channel about old school rust repair and this was how it was done except that the panels were brazed or riveted on then.This way is far better as the panels are sealed from behind. We cut out rust with the same tools shown, I have them all. This makes a fine repair on a daily driver. Nothing wrong with it at all.
Thanks for the positive comment Troyken :)
One issue with brazing is if the flux isn't completely removed, the metal will rust / bubble overcoats.
@Mike I thought I was the only one,lol.
@Mike Nothing like taking down stop signs then waiting for people to crash. . .
@@ciphercode2298 Nothing like taking down stop signs then waiting for people to crash. . .
Thank you for mentioning the sheet metal fasteners I have seen them everywhere and I could never find out what the heck they were. Much appreciated.
Thats aviation stuff
You're welcome Joe
I have been doing this type of work for fifty years. Your method requires much craftsmanship.
Bud welding saves a lot of time. The maximum time for a nice bud well would be 15 min,
Maybe 15 to 16 spots. I cut in between the metal to level out the surface evenly.
One thin coat of fiberglass filler, glaze, and prime, then paint.
6 hours altogether to finish the job. Thanks for the video.
You did great work! I am not criticizing you. God forbid, everyone works differently.
Thank you for the video.
You're welcome Brother - have a great day my friend :)
Very nice job! At first I thought, 'How's he going to blend the patch to the parent metal? He's not flanging the parent metal.' Now I know! Also glad you treated the wheel arch with (Por15?) rust preventative. Would love to see the painted vehicle.
This Friday you'll see it :)
All metal over the seam before filler is a better
Didn't look like the new panel was treated on the backside- don't want to be *that* guy, but why leave bare metal exposed on a panels underside if longevity is at all a concern
Which part of the video did he do that? Was it the filler or knocking down the area before the filler? I still couldn’t figure out the answer because I had the same question. I’m about to attempt this on my own old f150
@@Tallgeorge At (9:30 he began to grind/blend the patch panel to the original metal. And he allowed a generous "blend " area so the transition from old/new will be seamless once the filler is applied.
Nice job. As a teen I did some work on a 72 Bronco back in the late 70's. I didn't know anything and there was no internet to look at. My right hand fingers sometimes lock backwards from all the hand sanding I did. I wish some of the stuff you used had been available.
I got built working at a body shop, with all the sanding and lifting of doors, fenders, hoods, etc.
Why the glue if you're going to rivet it on anyway.
Cool to see a pro using a harbor freight tool like the average joe
pro? lmao
I have a 2010 chev that I was planning on welding in new repair panels, but now I think it's time to experiment a little and glue them on. Some of these new adhesives had their beginning in the space program and now are finding their way into other industries. This should be interesting for a 79 year old former shop owner. I will have to dig out my cleco's, hope I still have them. We'll see it should be fun.
You'll have fun doing it - and the best thing is the water tight seam :)
I'm a joiner and it looked rough as hell and was dismayed, so I watched the video to the end. Awesome job👍.
Thanks Richard - glad you watched till the end :)
A step up from the old days of shoving newspaper and screen then filling with bondo! But personally I will continue to weld in a complete new panel since I have perfected my installation procedures.
That's the way I would do it is with welding a new piece in , filling in holes with Bondo doesn't last once moisture gets trapped .
Very interesting. I knew they had door skin adhesives, but didn’t know you could do it with sheet metal patches. Very cool!
There are quite a few shops using glue for rust repair today :)
I was so in to this I was holding my breath when you were sanding !😇🤠🇺🇸
👍😊
Great tutorial. Not knowing how to weld, but being proficient at finish work, this will make my repairs simple and easy. Thanks for posting.
Feel free to ask questions as you go :)
@@LakesideAutobody Believe me, I will. Thank you!
Found another gem of a channel. It's about time YT.
I appreciate that my friend :)
I use SEM Products and I think they are great. I have mostly used the MultiPurpose Panel Bond, ( the non Impact resistant) and a few different seam sealers. I usually only use the panel bond where the OEM had placed it or per the repair manual. Every time I seen patch panels glued to the seam and not welded especially in Northeast PA the adhesive will start to push on and out during winter and summer months and it will leave a ghost line. Have seen them ground down and tapped in on the seam and ev en tucked under. The panel bond, body filler, and primers, topcoats will all expand and retract at different rates. I would have glued the wheel wells and welded the rest. Tight coat of Duraglass or Everglass across the welded seams and filler. Then undercoat and Cavity Wax the hell out of the inner panel. Not knocking your repair skills at all. You definitely been in the game a long time and know what you are doing. That has just been my experiences both doing and seeing patch panels panel bonded at the seams.
Have you tried knocking the seam down and filling with fiberglass reinforced filler so that the seam is not right under the finish? I have never had a problem with ghost lines in glued repairs. See this follow up video on repairs that were glued 3 years ago - th-cam.com/video/gIS1Tbv7Kvw/w-d-xo.html Feel free to ask anything you need. One thing about glue is the water tight seam - never have to worry about it again :)
@@LakesideAutobody knocked the seam down, I have knocked them down with a belt sander. Some reason I always seen them come back. Good job on the channel. You describe everything really goodn
@@peteyjay85 I appreciate the support Pat. If you ever use glue again, whack that seam down with a pick type body hammer so that that seam is at least 1/8" below the original surface. Your filler is now a buffer between the seam and the finish - no more worries about ghost lines showing up :)
I agree 101% with this repair approach. No welding/brazing. For this type of repair, bonding is just perfect and welding/brazing is just overkill.
100% agree and it not structural . Plus welding / brazing weakens metal of the old panel and vaporizes the e coat
@@nickking1510 a properly done weld does not weaken the base metal. And the new cars body is all structural most are unit body so welding is most definitely the best way to repair them. I flange the panel or weld at a body line and use almost no bondo. A lot of my repairs only require high build primer to finish the repair line
@@holmes1956O no it does not weaken it buy it burns off any coating on the old sheet metal which rust quick. So here in Ontario with high humidity in nice weather and salt on roads the rest of the year is to oil undercoat the entire car or truck and any body repairs as soon as the paint dry lolo
You are incredible good at what you do thanks for sharing your experiences and knowledge
I appreciate that - have a good weekend DWA
Thank you for showing me this new fangles procedure. I lost one eyeball and most of my other eyeball so I can't weld anymore. But hooray, I can use this glue technique to repair my rusted out truck bed. Wow, I can't say thank you enough.
I glad it helped you out my friend - feel free to ask any ?s as you go. Here's a follow up on this repair too - th-cam.com/video/t1WclT_GMvk/w-d-xo.html
Love seeing a top professional at work and explaining everything.
Thanks Craig - I appreciate your comment :)
Another informative and well presented video Jerry. Thank you for taking the time to make it.
Thanks Bluesman - always a pleasure hearing from you my friend :)
Nice job! I’m planning to try the adhesive method on a cab corner repair to avoid burning my truck to the ground! 🤣
Here's a cab corner w JB Weld but you can use this adhesive instead if you prefer - this method holds up real well - th-cam.com/video/wRl1QfkrBeY/w-d-xo.html
I did my 2011 f150 but I welded (wire feed ) my rockers and cab corners but the back side off corners behind the cab I used epoxy structural body panel bonder because I had no way to remove my box easily it worked great . The f150 can be set on fire welding back of the cab also lolo. Once the paint dries I sprayed entire truck including inside of rockers and cab corners with oil thinned with mineral spirits
@@nickking1510 Good thinking :)
@@LakesideAutobody as a teen till 22 I worked full time part time while going to school and college at a small town chev olds dealership restoring used trades and in body collision shop back then we brazed sheet metal what a warping mess lolol car undercoat fires quickly extinguished lolo . Once we had a traded 1970 yellow Grand Prix and a customer 1970 yellow Grand Prix in for brakes guess what the boss told the head body man to prep and paint the traded Grand Prix lolo instead he ran the customers in the body shop we sanded and prepped and painted it at the end of the day next day the mistake was realized the owner boss walked away saying I just can believe it several times . The customer was happy free paint job to his badly stone chipped car and then a brake job with 20% reduction in quote . Bill our boss was a great guy and sadly died in 1976 as a result of a car accident some months before at age 34 . I Thank Bill many times for allowing me opportunity to work and learn skills which have save me many$$ it was a great addition to shop class in school .
@@nickking1510 Guys like that are great - I was lucky enough to run across a few fellas like that and it changes the path of your life for sure :)
Amazing job! Have a S10 that needs a wheel arch replacement and this might be the way to go w/o welding (extra gas tank RIGHT behind the panel). LOVE the fasteners you used being able to just squeexe them off. LEARNED A LOT from this video - thanks and READY TO DO IT!!!
Glad to hear it my friend. Let me know how it goes and ask ?s as you go if needed - have a good week :)
did you do your s10?
Love the use of cheese grader I'm a old timer a lot of beginners or younger people in the field don't know what they are you are doing great job 👍
I really would not like body work if it wasn't for finding out about the cheese grater blade. It really cuts down on the sanding, dust and hard work. Thanks for your input David - have a good week :)
I'm always learning been doing this for 40 Years very nice job I learned a lot from you I'm going to try this next job thank you
@@davidbires2351 You're welcome David - feel free to ask questions if you need to. I have another one coming up on gluing lower quarter patch panels - that may help a bit too :)
As a backyard mechanic and body this is a very time saving and professional result bodywork for real!
Just curious, why not use a lap joint to mate the two surfaces? Seems like you would use much less Bondo, less sanding, etc.
You can do that if you want. My thinking is this --- "You can't flange the lip so why flange the big open area?" I like to have one method that works every time on every hole. Hope that makes sense - Jerry
Thank you for the vid. I learned how this is done right. I have been experimenting with gluing on panels on my trucks for some time now with so so results. I was missing some crucial steps.
Glad it helped Eric.
Great video. I have a 1988 Ford Econoline with windows all around. I intend painting it in a few months and would love to fill in the windows but doing it the traditional way of spot welding my way around something like 30 ft of seam and then spot grinding same puts me off. It'd just take forever. Rather than have the panels cut to the exact size of the holes for welding in, do you think having them cut say, 1/2" bigger all around and gluing them in place would be a good idea? Thanks.
Make sure you have about 1" to apply adhesive. I believe it would work just fine. Do a test window first if you want. Heck, glue it on with JB weld just to see - th-cam.com/video/wRl1QfkrBeY/w-d-xo.html - still perfect after almost 3 years.
This video really gave me the confidence boost to go get the rust repair done on the Colorado. Thanks Lakeside Auto body. I liked and subscribed
Thanks Ashton - I appreciate the support :)
I'm impressed,I really thought it was gonna look hacked but it's not bad at all. Thanks for sharing because I have some projects I can apply this to. You saved me time and cash.
A lot of shops in Michigan have been using glue for rust repair for some years now. It really is probably the best method because of the water tight seam. Sometimes you just have to weld though so... that's good to know too. Happy New Year 🎉
This method would seem to be more water proof. Not to worry about pinholes. But either way I appreciate the amount of work you have to do for this repair, nice work!
That's the main advantage of this type of repair - "water tight seam" :)
Interesting method to avoid welding. Adhesive must be similar to that used on new aluminum body Ford PUs. Thanks for sharing.
It's really your choice - I like both ways. In my mind both are quality repairs. I just wanted to show how to do this method at this particular time. In the future I'll weld one on. Both methods are excellent for rust repair :)
@@LakesideAutobody Right.. I was just noting those folks without a welder would really appreciate this option. Thanks again. Best to you and yours.
@@RaysLaughsAndLyrics Best to you and yours too Ray - nice talking to you - have a good weekend :)
The Panel Bonding adhesive is as strong or stronger than a conventional weld with no panel warping. I live in Ontario Canada and have used this method several times for replacing rocker panels with no issues years later.
@@recrdholdr Thanks for your input & support Steve - have a good weekend :)
Earl Scheib would be proud of that repair.
Earl might be a little embarrassed.
He used to paint any car - $199.00
@@steve4628
Actually he started $29.95 in the 50s
I like this guy's he's like a bully to damaged body work he beats it up and makes it his bytch. Very cool stuff. Huge transformation.
A lot of years of that work. I don't miss it one bit but an excellent video for sure, we'll explained
Thanks my friend - have a good week :)
Always nice to learn a new trick!👍
Nicely done Jerry! I've only tried adhesive once so far, on a replacement cab corner. I didn't want to deal with removing the bed, which meant the MIG gun couldn't get to that part in between. Did a combo of MIG from the rocker, up around and across the face of the corner and glue the rest of the way. I stuck a wet paper towel over the joint where the glue ended so the heat from the MIG wouldn't affect the adhesion. Seemed to work out just fine
That's a heck of a good plan using the wet towel. I am keeping that in mind because there are times when a hybrid patch like that could be beneficial. Good stuff Icar! Have a good weekend my friend :)
First time I’ve seen this method …amazing🤠👍
This is my new hobby learning something new every week with lakeside school. Great work as always thanks for taking time to show us.
You're very welcome Johan - thanks for the support and glad you like the content :)
@@LakesideAutobody Thanks from Nick in Ontario Canada also and this method works great 👍
@@nickking1510 You're welcome Nick - have a good weekend my friend :)
I'm a 68 year old American man. My Dad is 93 and has an old beater GMC Jimmy. The fenders were all rusted up from the wells but not to far. I boughs a roll of vinyl baseboard and self tapping sheet metal screws and customized it.
Nice 😊
Gee, I used to drop the tank and weld them in. The guy I trained under used to just make the panels out of washing machines using a torch, hammer and wet rag. Barely used any bondo.
Did he take the wheels off before he pushed it in the shop too?
@@paulhare662 Who needs a shop? Just pull over to the side of the road and get out the hammer and torch. Should be a ditch close by to wet your rag.
Amazing ! Such a small surface area for the glue.
I just did my first quarter panel. Tacked it/ lap welded it. Love the idea of the adhesive
Thanks PSG - no worries about moisture in the seem either :)
The panel lap line will show in a few months after expanding (hot weather) and contracting (cold weather).Steel, epoxy and polyester filler( Bondo) expand and contract at different rates. So the outline of the patch will be visible after cycling a few months unless it's buried in excess 1/4" of duraglass and or Bondo. Too much IMO. Also.. i have done collision resto and fab for 48-9 years and have never ever "pop" riveted a repair panel especially using aluminum rivets on steel panels. Plug welding the kleeko holes would have been a better choice. Disimilar metals aren't compatible and will start to oxide at the first wiff of moisture. Lastly.. polyester primers (eg. feather fill ) are not direct to metal or recommended over bare metal surfaces without proper (DTM) protective undercoats due to their poor adhesion lack of corrosion resistance and porosity. Essentially the reason we don't use lacquer primer anymore. Believe it not moisture will penetrate thru even the best clear/bascoat/single stage/ primer/Bondo and when it reaches bare (under the filler) metal you get iron oxide better known as rust under it all!. I'm not knockin the repair because welded or bonded new metal is still better and longer lasting than a cave and pave (tiger hair, duraglass, Bondo) technique but flanging the panel using weld thru primer and continuous spot welding would make for a better longer lasting repair. This would be acceptable repair for folks witho
ut a mig welder obviously. Bonding works VERY well on roof skins bedsides and doorskins but the mfgs. Still recommends SPRs fasteners or spot mig welds to prevent panel breakaway.
Here's a follow up video 3 years later on this method and others found in major body shops in SE Michigan or Detroit area ( the rust belt) - th-cam.com/video/gIS1Tbv7Kvw/w-d-xo.html
You can do whatever you want time will tell what happens it could last a few months or a life time losts of factors ivolved. If you live in a dry climate it should be ok. Only time will tell.also depends if it's in an area that takes pressure. That will cause the patch to fail or crack were it was patched. There's always the right way the cheat way the save money way and your way. I know he wasn't building a show truck
While yes there is so much wrong with this repair. And I agree with all your points. In 99% of cases...when done properly...the seam line will not show. And actually a glued panel avoids many of the pitfalls of a welded repair.
And face it some jobs, the investment is not worth it.
And to anyone reading these comments contemplating this job. Find another video.The first tell of someone "just getting by" is they mix their adhesives and fillers on cardboard. We knew better than to do that 40 years ago
@@jimk4267 Many very good body shops are using adhesives along with OEM - Check this video out for longevity of this method and others. th-cam.com/video/gIS1Tbv7Kvw/w-d-xo.html
Some new commercial vans are gluing quater panels on now.when you rip that seam sealer off there's no spot welds just a bonded glued on big quater panel.couldt believe it the first time I seen it.
Another tip when you prep to glue the panel. After grinding the back of the patch panel run a piece of tape along the edge of the area that you just ground down and paint the patch panel up to the tape with POR-15. Just to make sure the metal isn't exposured to the air. And I would do the same on the truck box. Treat the rust with rust treatment and paint with POR-15 and even use a Schutz gun to spray undercoating or truck bedliner. I did all that to a chevy truck 10years ago and it's still solid.
Good tips NtD - If you think it through rust repair can last a lifetime :)
@@LakesideAutobody So true. I honestly think using panel bond is a better way of doing rust repair patches because when you use a welder and weld through primer you are adding heat to the metal so anything you have on the metal for rust proofing tends to burn off then you have bare metal exposed to air. And no matter how much you try to coat the backside of the repair with rust proofing you always miss something. I've seen welded repairs having to be redone in 1.5year later. But repairs using panel bond 10years ago still going strong and yet they will not teach this technic in any trade school. Sometimes you have no choice but to weld but its amazing how far structural panel bond has come.
Excellent. You did me a big favor...now that I see what is needed to get these results, I now feel clear in my decision to turn it over to a pro instead of doing it myself. This would require more time, tools, and skill than I am willing to invest to just do my one vehicle. I had a strong feeling my friend was over-confident about how "easy" it would be to do it myself.
Glad I could help :)
Save a ton of time and body work by flanging the 1 inch section and getting the patch panel even more flush.
Or save even more time by replacing the whole bedside
Save more time: buy a new truck and move to a rust free zone!
@@miken.4693 for real,I rather either get new bedside or just get new truck,
Too much work unless it’s for a hobby car
Some of you just can't admit that your not talented enough to fix it so you buy new so with that being said good job on the bed
I sure do id show you if it would let me
👍🏻Another great demonstration! I see the pros and cons for both ways (welding and gluing) but what’s your preferred way? Looks like there’s a few coats of paint on that quarter panel.
My preferred way is MIG weld it, knock it down, fill. It's fast, and holds up well. If I had to guess which would last longer - I'd say this method. It did have a ton of paint - thus the feather fill :)
I’m sure it’s fine but for equal labor I would rather weld.
Flange tool makes the panels fit flush so much better and takes less filler to cover
In time you will see the outline of the seam if not knocked down below the surface
I have 8 classic cars I've bought to restore and most need panels and it's the welding that I don't like, Ive been researching glues and most new cars are now all glued together as in my building homes I've been gluing for 20 years with great results
I appreciate your input George - I do believe this method can last as long or longer than new as this patch panel is 18 gauge as you can see how hard I had to hit it to "tap" the seam down :)
@@LakesideAutobody l was impressed my friend has been using a 2 part epoxy system and trying to get me to try,, only hold back for me is I'm doing classic cars and trying to use as little of body filler as possible and don't butt welds to conseal repair and laps but it sure would make my life easier with so much panel work ahead of me.
@@georgespangler1517 It can't hurt to know all the methods of rust repair - each repair is different and you will pick up speed by using the appropriate method for each situation.
@@LakesideAutobody so far it's been to cut it all out and fit new peace excactly and mig weld it completely in making a surface as smooth as possible with little filler, it's time consuming and even nerve racking , and now even makes it hard to get started knowing what's ahead
@@georgespangler1517 I've worked at 4 different shops over a career in the metro Detroit area - lots of rust. The shops I worked at were considered very good quality shops and the method of rust repair was always the same: - lap weld (MIG), knock down the seam, fill. Please see this video for why they do it this way. It may make your life a lot easier. th-cam.com/video/JIIonJOVro4/w-d-xo.html
I know it’s a Chevy, but almost all the Rams look like this in my area..
Good job !!! Looks like a good way to make that repair !
Another great video..thank you for the effort that you put into making them.
You're welcome Cary - have a good weekend :)
Thanks for the video, I am about to repair my vw bus rear wheel arch and was putting off welding it due to the heat. This is perfect. Thank you!!
You're welcome - this panel is still fine today so rest assured if done correctly there's no worries about he seam :)
I've done something similar like that on my 98 Pathfinder when I used to have it had a lot of rust everywhere but I didn't do it your way I ended up just putting out the garage just by using a cutter from Harbor Freight and then when I was done with it I ended up having a piece of cardboard and recreated offender by placing it on a piece of metal shaping the metal welding back to metal and then repainted and boy that truck looking very beautiful and I was done
Don't forget to finish the back side!!
When you are hammering the area, to remove loose rust, and ...
the only thing left, is the frame and drive train.
I wonder what it would be like to live down south and work on a car where every nut and bolt is not frozen together with rust :)
@@LakesideAutobody that’s why I oil all my cars my self annually and touch up when doing oil changes my cars last and last . I also touch them up annually also in my garage paint shop but you cans do a nice job using dupilcolour and painting out side on a dry day in the shade and get professional results done many many times all my 15 + year old cars look like new . My hobby is getting older newer cars and doing mini restoration and touch up paint correction mechanical repairs nice wax job car like new lolol and no payments lolo just did a 2011 f150 4x4 it turned out like new been driving it for just over a week
I think i'll just stick with my lincoln welder!
Here's a playlist with all methods I've seen working at various shops. If you have another that works let me know - th-cam.com/play/PLOP9eoG14-I-qu68_805bZaOnmkdlv6Ys.html
I popped riveted mine on and i actually like the look considering it’s a ole work truck but this seems like a easy fix also for someone just wanting a inspection sticker and keep there truck going another years
So did you rust proof the inner guard BEFORE you installed that patch panel. No, I didn't think you did!
Don't need to and you shouldn't as paint traps moisture. Drainage and this is the answer and nothing else - promise - th-cam.com/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/w-d-xo.html see this too for the follow up - th-cam.com/video/t1WclT_GMvk/w-d-xo.html
"Don't need to as paint traps moisture". Now I know you can't be serious. Proof coating parts with body deadener actually stops rust & corrosion & that's exactly the reason you had to patch panel this time - because the underbody was never treated originally. We work differently here in Australia & would have done the job properly by stitch welding the sheet metal. If it wasn't for huge amounts of filler to save your job, you'd never have gotten a descent finish at all!
In Europe we never keep anything long enough to rot away. But then again only farmers and builders have old trucks.
I'm a farmer the newest pickup is a 2003 duramax with a lot of rust this video gives me hope.
Wtf? This is complete BS and you know it.
Nice job sir. Do you have video of the remaining steps to the finished paint job? I was looking forward to that. Thank you.
Yes - th-cam.com/video/HIW0-Zib3fU/w-d-xo.html Glad you liked part 1 :)
awesome video and i really appreciate the demonstration of various tools cutting the sheet metal around the 4:00 minute mark
Glad you liked it - thanks for watching Brian :)
I love watching the pro work.
Thanks James - enjoy the weekend :)
Excellent information as usual. No excessive yapping. Thank you sir....
Very welcome - glad you enjoyed it and liked the straight forward approach :)
Holy cow I been waiting years for this kinda video! Thanks man
You're welcome my friend. Have a good weekend :)
You have motivated me to take on this DIY project for my 2011 Silverado before the rust creep goes too far. Awesome content and well done. Lots of great Q&A too- thanks for that. I'm building up my supply list, so I am curious how much filler, primer, paint, clear coat it takes to do a truck rear quarter panel. I'm looking at Raybucks panels which I think will work, but wonder if you know of panels that have more height in case the rust creep has gone too far.
Another place you might try is millsupply.com but I think they're the same size. You should be OK though - what you see on the outside is usually close to what is rusted on the inside - you might cut out an inch or two more. Filler is not to expensive so get a gallon. primer, paint, clear - you'll need a quart of each - you could probably get away with a pint of paint though. If you think you might enjoy doing the work, might as well get enough primer, paint and clear to do the whole truck - you can do one panel at a time if you want :)
@@LakesideAutobody Thanks for the feedback! I should have also asked where you recommend getting the paints, adhesive, and other supplies? Raybuck is touting a no mix adhesive called Silaprene. Had any experience with it?
@@jeffrichards8054 I have not used the Silaprene but I'll check it out - maybe do a video on it. All the supplies, tools, etc. are listed in the video description. If something is missing let me know - I think it's all listed :)
Project coming along, albeit slowly.. Driver side inner and outer panels installed, knocked down, filled, and ready to prime. Took out taillight and discovered the structure back there is pretty rusted out. Do you know if that is available as an aftermarket piece that could be glued in? So far I have not found one. Or do I have to fabricate it?
@@jeffrichards8054 Most likely you'll have to fabricate something. Remember, you don't have to build it like the factory - they failed. You build it so it's strong enough but has massive drainage ability. Who cares what the inner panels look like as long as they do their job and don't trap moisture and debris. Let me know if that makes sense and makes your job a bit easier :)
Great to see the process on the outside panel but how about repairing the inside wheel well along the bottom curve that is also rusted?
They have those repair panels too. You can add new metal if you'd like too. I don't mind leaving it alone too - see this video for more - th-cam.com/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/w-d-xo.html
I've been doing that same exact thing except I have been using duraglass as an adhesive. been doing for over 40 years with no complaints!
That's interesting and great to know. How wide is your overlap usually? Do you tap the seam down a bit before filling? Thanks :)
like I said I have been doing it basically the same way I just use duraglass as the adhesive instead!
@@LakesideAutobody
You. Are. Amazingly. Talented. Steadfast. Detailed. A Gift ❤️
Thanks MWO - I appreciate your kind words. I'm glad you liked it :)