One day, the Papa asks Kripp to go fishing, Kripp shrugs, “Alright, but catch and release only - I’m vegan.” They arrive at the local pristine clear waters of an Ontario stream brimming with wild trout and prepare to fish. Suddenly Kripp shouts, “Get down!”. A crack sounds through the air, and the Papa sees Kripp on the ground bleeding. His final words are, “Fucking stream snipers.”
Sander Hansen 4 mana m8, 4mana cost, 99.9% of all shamans have Flamewrathed Cancer in their deck, and if on hand at turn 4 its played... if they didnt overloaded ofc
16:15 sorry i was at work orientation and i get fired right away if they see you on your phone. And me being on time is going to be spotty with work coming up im done at 3:15 everyday and i would have to use my phone
my top most hated cards: 1) counterspell 2) sludge belcher 3) snake trap 4) doomhammer 5) Amaz Amaz is soooo Op! 7 mana 6/3 steal 5 cards from your opponents deck! It's so OP!
I think that people, generally, hate everything, to be honest: "Aggro Decks are too fast and boring, since the game ends fast." "Tempo Decks are too Tempo, if you fall behind, you lose.", "Control Decks is the child of ResidentSleeper with a Wallet" etc etc. Etc etc. People will always complain about everything.
I think some people do. I recently started playing the game though and have had a lot of success with Zoolock, to the point where I feel like I'm consistency beating players who are better than me because the deck is so strong. So some aggro I think might be a bit OP. Though like I said I'm really new so not as educated.
maybe you should listen to Kripp before thinking. Right now hs is completely controlled by aggro/tempo and even the so called "Zoo"lock is more of a stupid SMOrc deck than a real zoo. So instead of you just complaining about ppl... why dont you tell us what you like? stop complaining and help improve the things you like!
The most frustrating to play against wasn't mentioned: Frothing Beserker. Either you have a way to remove him immediately or you lose the game almost immediately. Way too much power for a 3 drop to have. Likewise, I think Justicar Trueheart is really annoying too. Nearly every other minion no longer has an effect after their death, but this one makes your hero power twice as good for the entire game for some classes, and doesn't have a great effect for others.
Problem is justicar is a 6/3 minion meaning it can be killed by a 2 drop while it's a 6 drop, which means your improved hero power has to make up for probably losing board control...
Fishtard Sure, but I think even making it 6-6 with the effect only in effect while it's alive would be more balanced. As is it's an auto-include for control warriors and control priests, and other classes don't have nearly as much use for it. And Blizzard says it doesn't want as many auto-include cards.
Justicar is only an "Auto-include" In control warrior, and that only makes up a portion of the warrior decks on ladder. That is as much of an "Auto-include" as Reno Jackson is to Reno Warlock. You aren't required to run Reno Jackson in order to win, and the same goes for Justicar.
I actually feel like hearthstone has reached the point where the 30 health cap is just too little for aggro ever not to be the best playstyle, and an increase to 40 or 50 would benefit the general variety of viable decks, rather then nerfing cheap cards.
Control warrior would actually benefit from it the least of all control decks, since they can go over 30 anyway with armor. I feel like renolock would like this the most.
+babelutje While i agree with you in regards to Priest and Reno Warlock, that kind of a buff would make control warrior even more absurd than it already is
Tunnel Trogg should scale with totems summoned, not Overload. The whole point of Overload is to spread a standard mana cost across turns, making it a strategic choice to incur mana "debt" in the future for a tempo advantage. A 3/4 Totem Golem that costs 3 mana is unremarkable, as is a 6 mana 7/7 drop. That's a self-balancing mechanic, and it works fine... in isolation. The problem is that over the years too many ways to mitigate or benefit from Overload have crept in. There's now 2 ways to just completely remove the "debt" by clearing the crystals, and 2 cards that actually buff themselves up when you're supposed to be taking penalties. Tunnel Trogg is just the cheapest version of these 4 cards, and so fits the aggro meta best.
+jeffstut55 well to be fair, priests are one of the most annoying overall class to play against, while other classes just have certain deck types that are annoying to play against
+jeffstut55 people don't hate on priest because it's op (unless they're morons) but they hate the play style of priest, "oh, nice cards you got there, mind if I take all of them and tell you to go fuck yourself?"
Blizzard rarely ever nerf cards. Around 60-70% of all cards in the game could need a buff to compete, and then the game would be alot more diverse and fun to play. I mean, look at Evil heckler and Booty bay bodyguard. Both are 5/4 taunts and offer the exact same purpose, but the newer card Evil heckler costs 1 less mana. They could just hace redone Booty bay bodyguard, but no... Hearthstone is such a unique, cool and overall fun game to play, but Blizzard could actually have made it a much more enjoyable experience than it already is.
I feel you man, and the worst thing is that most of these cards are basic cards, so the cards you get when you start playing the game are absolutely bullcrap.
yeah by adding cards like evil heckler blizzard is really hurting their newer and f2p player bases since instead of buffing the old cards, they add better versions that those players wont have access to which forces them to work with a lot of very weak cards, not to mention that the new versions of the cards they add fall out of standard eventually whereas if they just buffed the old cards these player bases would have a much better foundation and would enjoy the game more.
I think a creature that dies due to the Power Overwhelming buff should get silenced right before it dies. This way, it actually retains the point of you sacrificing a creatyure for such a large damage burst, and I actually think it makes the card less confusing too. The 'then it dies. Horribly' text only really makes the card more confusing, and the text would actually make sense if the creature is silenced first because it dies so horribly that no other creatures can spawn from it. I hope this made sense
Sap makes Control bad? I think the better answer is Entomb, That card has caused me to table Flip alot and its why i officially hate priest with a burning passion.
amen to that. Entomb is currently my least favorite card, and has caused me the most suffering. I have accepted being punched in the dick by zoo (the trick is to realized that they are part of the cancerous population that hates the game but has to be "good" at it anyway), but entomb just feels like cheating. HAHA stupid priest, fear my Salvanis. oh...entomb. Well guess WHAT, that was all part of the plan, now fear my Reno Jackson. oh...another entomb. fun playing with you mister priest. I'm just gonna go throw this computer out this window here...
I hate entomb because it makes me feel bad for playing control, instead of playing 1-2 drop aggro minions I play bigger and more interesting minions, only to see them get stolen.
As someone who plays a ton of priest I can say that entomb is pretty broken, but since priest no longer has deathlord or lightbomb all you really have to do to play around entomb as a control deck is play more than 4 big threats and accept the fact that two will die to death, and two will get entombed lol. This is why priest has trouble with top-heavy paladin decks for example because they just have too many threats
I mean freeze mage against zoo and mage isn't running flame waker or any flame strikes, Zoo will win hands down, unless they run some crazy cthun build and then it's no longer freeze mage
Berkay Shady I have NEVER bricked out playing aggro warlock zoo, all you need is like three late game cards, it's all about that perfect early game curve
I agree with a lot of what Kripp said. I think the biggest problem is low cost offensively oriented cards with so much health that they are quite hard to remove, especially when big minions can often be removed as easily. The biggest offender is Tunnel Trogg, but other similar cards such as Mana Wyrm, Frothing Berserker, Flamewaker and Darkshire Councilman are in a similar position. Just the fact that they have 3, 4 or 5 health makes them quite resilient, especially against traditional board clears and if you leave them unchecked for a single turn the damage can really start to add up, especially if you have to resort to using weapons to remove them after they have received multiple buffs.
The biggest problem with Doomhammer is that it doubles the effectiveness of Rockbiter Weapon while on it's own already a good card. A 7 mana 3 card 16 burst combo that leaves you with a 2-6 windfury weapon, allowing another 12 damage to be dealt is on it's own quite close to the 30 health a hero has. And Power Overwhelming is another quite big problem, not only because it essentially reads 1 mana deal 4 damage, but because with Dark Peddler, you can realistically have 4 in your hand which is 4 mana 16 burst damage that requires only having 1 minion on the board or a creature with charge. Most often this creature is Leeroy Jenkins resulting in 9 mana deal 22 damage from an empty board. I'm actually glad they removed cards like Antique Healbot, having every class being able to access arguably the best heal in the game devalued a lot of what control paladin and priest could do, however having very little reliable and good healing makes aggro decks harder to deal with for control as any incidental damage becomes much more meaningful. Another of my big problems specifically with ZooLock is that the Joust mechanic was aimed for control decks to have a stronger answer vs aggro decks, but ZooLock can run Sea Giant, Leeroy Jenkins and Doomguard, meaning they can actually win jousts without compromising their deck's strategy and getting powerful minions for cheap (Doomguard often is a 5 mana 5/7 with no drawback in zoo whilst Sea Giant often is a 0 mana 8/8)
It's so broken, you get 3 minions, a 4/2, a 2/4 and a 4/4 for 8 mana, which is already 10/10 in stats for 8 mana, on top of that 2 minions have +1 attack so you get 12/10 in stats and then one has charge and one has taunt so you're getting 12/10 in stats with small taunt and small charge so it's crazy unbalanced
how about a 6 cost 6/5 with death rattle summon 2 x 2/2 beasts? or a 3 mana spell that deals 5 dmg? maybe a 3 cost spell that summons 5 x 1/1s? or a 3 cost spell that summons a random decent 4 mana minion? Do you think some of those cards might be decent enough for hunter?
Mad Scientist - Good reasoning, Mad Scientist is indeed insane. Through you spoke about the card draw effect you didn't mention the "deck clearing effect". Secrets are amongst the weakest draws in the game in most situation as they hardly, if ever, solve the current board state, so removing them from the possible draw is also pretty good. It's similar to how effects that search for land are extra strong in magicthegathering because they not only increase land in play but reduce lands in deck so you can draw the cards that can solve your problems. Muster for battle - if you see at as 1 light's justice (1 mana) + 3 wisps (0 mana) + 3 draws (1 for each wisp, 3 mana) it is being underpriced, but they did opt for the overprice in "Ball of Spiders" and no one use. It might have been a bad judgement call and the choice should be inverted, but since Blizzard isn't open to experiment with balancing the game we'll probably never know. Power Overwhelming - Again, nice reasoning. The game did evolve in a way that made Power Overwhelming more powerful. Maybe it is time blizzard abandon the Zoolock and prints more card to play the "sacrifice for power" gameplay like "Tiny Knight of Evil" and "Sucubus", instead of "Possesed Villager" to support the solution players had to play Warlock when the classic set didn't gave enough power for your sacrifices (The time when Warlock was the class to use the lesser amount of class card and evolved around tapping for zooing). Abusive Sergeant - Either turn him in a buff minion (1/1 statline ability, or even 1/2 to target the nerf at agression) or weaken the buff (+1 attack). The game is showing you can't have both, Just like Leper Gnome. Tunnel Trogg - Either have it be easier to remove across all class (1/2 statline) or admit he is too cheap for the effect and have it be +1 regardless of the overload value OR temporary. Flamewreathed Faceless - This card is better than its cost and allow you to pay in 2 turns. It should at least be 7/6 to be removeable by Fireball. Right now it gives +1 attack compared to Boulderfist Ogre and cost the same ammount accross 2 turns. Pick one advantage. Doomhammer - I'm actually ok with Doomhammer. Maybe have some weapon removal that challenges the meta added to the game if it remains trapping you against 2 choices that are bad in the long run. Example 4 mana 2/6 Taunt neutral minion with "If attacked by a weapon, destroy the weapon". It isn't as good as the slime to remove the weapon but it's good against several small minion, while the slime is weaker to them, more options is a good thing. (I'm also waiting for "Steal weapon" rogue card since classic, but that's just something I'd find fun - and I play more Warrior or Paladin than rogue so I should be biased against it) Sap - Honestly while I see where the sentiment come from I don't see how to fix without breaking which kind of make me think the card is ok as it is, but I know how it feels to get sapped away from the game. I honestly felt very bad with the wild/standard decision to no longer balance old cards. C'thun's Chosen and Silvermoon Guardian healthy state in the game is almost a proof Blizzard screwed up with Piloted Shredder and a how to fix it (6 total stats as 3/3 or 4/2). Dr. Boom clearly needs work and I'd rather be unallowed to dust the nerfed boom than have it stay in the game in this state. I crafted him furiously. There is no "Dr Boom design space", no particular strategic niche, the reason you pick him is because he bruteforce his way into your deck and leave you with a bitter taste in your mouth. I honestly have less fun everytime I use him in Tavern Brawl. I also honestly think Nozdormu needs work. Not because it's op, but because it is "strong cheating". I'd rather have it be an honest card that didn't screw my oponent over animation times and me trying to cheat him playing "Curse of Rafaan" or joust or queueing several actions fast and passing and hoping to cheat him out of a turn and have it have more power in some way. Like reading "Your oponent turn last 12 seconds - you can't do those shenaningans to screw him anymore". Right now it's a fun card gone to waste.
How about sap costing half the mana of the card it's trying to return to the opponents hand? So if you return a 2 drop it costs 1, if you return a 4-drop it costs 2 and if you return a 10 drop it costs 5 (rounded up for uneven numbers). This means that it is still a tempo-card and can be used efficiently in the early-midgame but falls off somewhat come turn 6 and is a strictly worse assasinate most of the time if you play it turn 10.
nobody would use it. if anything it would help your opponent a lot. it sets up synergies with bran + many more and help your opponent set up crazy turns later on.
Fuggel I think it would be used on mindrange decks, it's still very efficient when dealing with medium sized threats, and less punishing when used against aggressive decks. It punishes things like Flamewreathed Faceless really well. I do not see how sap currently would be any better against battlecry-minions. The primary targets for sap is the giant minions that some control decks include. The primary problem with my suggested change is actually that the cardtext would be really confusing I think.
I personally don't feel that doomhammer is broken, it's rockbiter that is. if we change rockbiter to only target minions, then doomhammer can be used more for control rather than face burst damage.
Rock biter would in my opinion be too weak as its strength, outside of doom hammer burst, lies in it being a semi weapon. I would recommend something like until the next attack +3 attack. It would kinda break after the first time used taking away wind fury synergy but making it last for multiple turns if simply hold. (Sry if bad English btw no native speaker)
then it would be ridiculously underpowered. Like not even warsong commander level. It would be straight out the worst card in the game. So yea probably that is what will happen to it if it gets nerfed. Most cards they nerf are usually just nerfed to oblivion. There are a few exceptions of course, see gadgetzan, leeroy, sylvanas, unleash. Those are still usable cards.
Logical Nerfs: Sap: 2 mana: return a minion with 5 or less attack to its owners hand 4 mana: return an enemy minion to your opponents hand 3 mana: return all 1 health minions to their owners hand 2 mana: return an enemy minion to your opponents hand, it costs 2 less Power Overwhelming: 3 mana: give a friendly minion +4/+4 and destroy it at the end of your turn 1 mana: give a friendly minion +4 attack and destroy it at the end of your turn, discard a card 1 mana: give a friendly minion +2/+2 and destroy it at the end of your turn Blizzard Nerfs: Sap: 6 mana: return a friendly minion to your hand Power overwhelming: 8 mana: give a minion +1/+1
I really wish Blizzard could give every other class except Warlock a cheaper AoE board clear. Because Zoo is cancer and sucks the fun out of the game ;-;
Zoo was cancer since Reynad posted the original optimized aggro list for Warlock back in beta (I believe he issued his first Zoo list in December 2013). Cards came and went, but to the core, that deck hasn't changed. But there really isn't much you can do about it. It's the eternal struggle between aggro/control. If you don't manage to take the upper hand early on against aggro you lost. Unless you let it run out of steam intentionally because you're running a Reno deck. In which case all I can say is, taste the salt when you heal back up to 30.
Sap could be made to cost the same mana as the minion you use it on, or could be combined with shadow step into a card that makes your minions cheaper but make the opponents more expensive when used on them
A way to balance Sap would be to treat it in the opposite way that Freezing trap works. With freezing you have the control of what get backs to your hand so to have additional cost is fine. My suggestion would then be that when your minions get sapped, it costs 2 less the next turn. It still retains the same utility to remove an immediate threat, but it would not give you a way to stall the game as vanish does (which is fine at 6 mana).
6:22 If PO was +3/+3 wouldn't Blessing of Might from Paladin be better in nearly every case? Since it also stays on the board. I don't like it either but it would make it inferior since the health bonus doesn't matter when it dies at the end of the turn.
But blessing of kings is 4 mana and sees no play.PO is 1 mana which can be used for burst,can be discovered by dark peddler and is overall unfair because of all the tokens zoo has now
Tossover6 I didn't say Blessing of Kings! I said Blessing of *Might*. It is 2 different cards... Blessing of Might gives one minion +3 attack for 1 mana.
Greg Jackson Wtf? It is a 1 mana card which buffs a card with +3 damage. What are you thinking of? -Seems like no one actually read what card is written.-
changing sap to say "return an enemy minion to your opponent's hand. It costs (5)" would do sorta what you want. makes small minions harder to play but allows bigger minions to be played with something else the next turn, possibly opening up a combo opportunity for them.
My honest opinion if you want em Kripp: [1] Mad Scientist is a card that should never have been made. Kripp's points are solid. [2] Muster for Battle is too much value packed into one card. I don't hate it nearly as much as Kripp tho :P [3] Power Overwhelm is too strong right now, but I don't think the card is to blame. Rogue also has Cold Blood which does basically the same thing, but Cold Blood is not view as too OP. The problem with Power Overwhelming is because Warlock have access to SO many low cost sticky minions, a hero power that draws cards, and the most OP discover card in the game, Dark Peddler. Dark Peddler by far is a bigger offender than PO since it can generate the incredibly powerful warlock 1-drop of choice such as PO for no cost. [4] Abusive Sergeant is dumb and needs nerf. Playing 2 abusive in 2 turns unhindered leads to 8 damage for 2 mana. [5] Flamewaker can single-handedly win the game for you if you have spells in your hand. Turn 3 Flamwaker + Coin + Arcane Missile = 7 separate pings. How is this card fair? I got a Flamewaker from Undercity Huckster in once match and proceeded to wreck the mage's day with my rogue. He stayed on the board the entire time forcing a concede. I wasn't even playing miracle rogue. If my deck was built for it like Tempo Mage's then drawing 2 or these means instantly winning. [6] Flame Juggler is only strong because Divine Shield and OP-ass 1 drops are so common right now. The card is fine as is once the meta changes. [7] LOL Tunnel Trogg. OP card is OP. Overload is a price to be paid, if the price is a buff then overload cards are insane. [8] Flamewreathed Facelsss is really strong, but very weak to priests who have an easy punish. Only reason it is OP is because of the whole "Overload is a price but also a buff" BS going on. [9] Doomhammer is too broken. 16 total unrestricted windfury damage for 5 mana is broken. 16 total unrestricted windfury damage for 7 mana is still broken. I know that Gorehowl does 28 restricted damage for 7 mana, but the restriction makes Gorehowl a fair card. The only other weapon that does more total damage than twice its mana cost is Assassin's Blade, but Assassin's blade has no OP effect like windfury and negative synergy with rogue's hero power. Let's not forget the incredible synergy this card has with Rockbiter weapon. This card alone is holding back weapon based decks since so many people are running weapon removal. Even 1/2 wicked blade that I have after I play Sir Finley Mrrgglton is even a target to these removals ; ;. [10] I agree Sap is bad, but why is Entomb not also on this list? Entomb basically does everything that you hate about Sap except you can't play the card next turn. Sap has negative synergy against battlecries which is its weakness. Entomb has no negative synergy for it's effect. Entomb is a Silence, Removal, Anti-Fatigue, and +Value all in one card. Entomb is by far worse for the control meta than Sap which is a rogue card, and rogues need cards like Sap to survive in the control meta. Maybe make Sap cost 3 mana and call it a day? In arena sap is broken as hell though since it is that much harder to good battlecry creatures.
Just small adjustments make the cards still usable: - Power Overwhelming: Restrict it to 3-mana or less cards - Flamewreathed: Make it 7/6, so its slightly easier to kill - Flame Juggler: Sorry, I feel this card isn't all THAT broken, since its still random. - Flamewaker: 2/3 is enough - Abusive: 1/1 is enough - Doomhammer should be 6 mana... - Sap, restricted to 6 mana or less minions...
Hahaha so funny to watch this in 2017. Good old times when 4 mana 7/7 was considered op. Hearthstone is so bad right now that you sometimes don't even reach turn 4.
One interesting way to redo sap would be -2 mana return an enemy minion to their hand, costs 1 more for each attack of the minion. That way you could gain mana by throwing it at a 1 attack card, but it would cost more to remove something big.
Mine as a Priest main are: Druid - Mulch Hunter - Freezing Trap, Call of the Wild (honestly, this whole class together is my most hated one, I can't seem to win against it) Mage - Flamewaker, Fireball Paladin - Divine Favor, Anyfin Can Happen, Steward of Darkshire Priest - Thoughtsteal, Shifting Shade, Entomb (I play priest but it's annoying how much value we can get out of this, especially when they Thoughtsteal your Entomb or what you've entombed before) Rogue - I don't seem to hate any specific card, but playing against Rogue is always so annoying, especially N'zoth Rogue, they get so much value out of the deathrattles. Shaman - Rockbiter + Doomhammer, Thing from Below (also the same as Hunter, but they are so predictable so it's easier to win against them) Warlock - Power Overwhelming, Darkshire Councilman, Soulfire, Doomguard, Jaraxxus Warrior - Shield Slam, Fiery War Axe, Frothing Berserker, Brawl, Gorehowl Neutral - Dark Iron Dwarf, Azure Drake, Leeroy Jenkins, Twin Emperor Vek'lor, N'zoth (only in Rogue), Yogg-Saron
That seems absurdly broken too, at least against low drops. I think something like "Return an enemy minion to your opponents hand, it costs (2) less" would be a bit better.
+KatakiDoragon You almost never sap low drops though and if you do, you want to delay those Darkshire Councilmans or Things from Below which are OP in and of themselves. I don't think it's bad to have a card that helps with that. You'd still save up your sap to deal with at least 6-drops against say a tempo warrior.
Mad scientisd: increase cost by 1, muster: summon 2 instead of 3 and increase cost by 1, abusive: 1/1/1, flame waker, trigger once per turn, flamefaceless overload 3, hp -1, doomhammer cost+1, Sap: and reduce it's cost by 3.
I know right? "Urr Durr i'm a C'thun Priest playing against a C'thun Warrior. Oh, what's that? A Twin Emperor? Well it's mine now, wow i'm such an skilled player!"
You people realize that in the 20 decks that are tier 1, 2, and 3 there is maybe one priest deck, if that? I don't know where you are in the ladder but higher up you play about 1 priest every 100 games. Entomb isn't even broken, often it's worse than swd
INCREASE ACCESSIBILITY AND REWARDS FOR PLAYING SLOW DECKS! I dont mind aggro / zoo decks, the main reason people play them isn't the fact that they're ez to play or something, the two biggest reasons are that you can make a decent zoo deck relatively cheaply and that the games are much shorter. I confess that I have no idea on what kinda cards to introduce to enable some reasonably efficient budget control decks, but for increasing the rewards I see two ways: 1.) increase the number of stars you get for winning in a game with more than, say, 15 turns (would work only till rank 5, like the winstreak reward does) 2.)kinda adjust dailies - this might be harder to work out (and not that important imo), but when you have that 60 gold daily, even though it's for a class you dont usually play, you're much less likely to cycle it and you would probably prefer to get it dona asap, hence prefering aggro to fatigue ^^ could again be based on adjusting the quest progression on the number of turns the game lasted
Well, he did allude to it by mentioning the "other 1-drops that get buffs". Trogg is the bigger offender of the two, but I do agree with your premise. If Trogg really is a problem then Mana Wyrm must be too.
On this topic, I think Priests have too many removals. Here a list: The classic stuff - 1.Shadow Word: Pain, 2.Shadow Word: Death, 3.Entomb, 4.Mind Control. In total, they can run over 6 big minions and 2 small ones. And this means that if you want to play not aggro deck they will win. But on top of that, they have AoE cards that deal your other stuff. 1.Excavated Evil, 2.Embrace the Shadow/Auchenai Soulpriest with Flash Heal, Circle of Healing and Justicar Trueheart Hero power. And on top of all this, they can steal your cards. One of the most annoying class to play against.
Its balanced because Priest only has 2 good minions and on of those is good because it kills itself and the board. Priest can't play shit till turn 4, so they are dead beforw it can be played.
It's not that balanced. Compare it to druids recycle. I think the best way to nerf enthomb is making it a "Shuffle a minion into your opponents deck and put its copy into your deck"
Changes to make these cards more balanced-ish Mad Scientist - Change to "Deathrattle: Add a secret from your deck to your hand." (Makes it less tempo without killing it entirely) Muster for battle - Change to "Place a random 2 cost paladin minion into play and equip a 1/4 weapon. (goes from instantly winning to sometimes instantly winning) Power Overwhelming - Add text "Discard a random card" (soul fire, but you can still make the buff permanent if you are playing it that way.) Abusive Sergeant - Change to "Battlecry: Give a minion +2 Attack and lower its health by 1 this turn" (instantly kills the minion if it is a 1 health, makes the cost more of a cost, or can be used in a Cruel task master sort of way) Flame Juggler - Change to "When this minion attacks deal 1 damage to the target." (if the target dies it still counts as having attacked. Basically give it "kinda first strike") Tunnel Trogg - Change to "This minion has +1 attack for each locked mana crystal" (loses the bonus once the crystal is no longer locked) Flamewreathed Faceless - Change to 3/6, Add text "When this minion attacks another minion it gains +3 attack for this turn" (makes it less of a face card and possible to trade against without always losing your board) Doomhammer - Change to 2/7, Overload (2) "At the start of your turn your hero gains Windfury" (The first turn it's a single attack giving you a turn to counter it) Sap - Change to 0 mana, Add text "cost mana equal to the attack of the targeted minion" (If you don't have enough mana sap cost 0 mana, does nothing and you lose the card. That way even against big minions it can act as a combo activator at least.) I think that would change the cards from OP to situational. TL:DR - I agree Kripp, good video.
He's the definition of hearthstone players and the fandom as a whole. He's a big, snooty jerk with the redeeming quality of being intelligent and contributing to his community with his interesting takes and criticisms. I don't hate him, but I do like to watch him burn.
The best change I can think about for sap is changing the mana cost to the cost of the minion your trying to remove. Removes a 5 drop for 5 mana, removes a 3 drop for 3 mana etc.
nice list. couple of my most hated cards: 1) bog creeper - this card can single handedly swing an arena game so hard. super annoying when opponent top decks it, slams it down, you have no removal in hand and have to sacrifice your entire board potentially losing you the game (plus opponent always has removal when you play your own bog creeper >.
As a new player at the bottom of the leader I find Reno Jackson to be the worst possible card: 1. Any new player can get it quite fast 2. When playing against some other new player that card can decide the game by itself. 3. The fact that you can only have one copy of each of your cards means that you are less likely to find synergys between cards that you did not think of before. (Most new players are not able to figure those out by just reading the card texts) This creates a situation in which a new player has a powerfull card that lets them win, and at the same time slowes down their learning process, leading to them relying on it even more. The introduction of C'Thun really helped here, since it is as powerfull but at the same time teaches synergy. I just hope Blizzard will not make another card like Reno.
Its only good vs control, vs aggro like the meta is its a dead card. Its high risk, high reward, like battle rage is similar because you need to be ahead for battle rage to work.
I agree with everything except maybe muster. The real problem for cards like muster are the aggro/zoo enablers (abusive sergeant, certain buffs, etc.) Bonus points to muster for getting light's justice into play.
An spontaneous idea for Sap would be change the cost to X, where X is the cost of the minion you'd like to Sap. Obviously that would make it way worse for high mana drops but if you've already got board, it's still a very strong tempo push.
First off there's no legendarys on your list. Secondly Tirion Fordring is one of the most Bullshit cards in this game, he's the reason everyone has to run silence in their deck, because doing anything else to him will lose you the game
Plus the fact that Druid has so many choose one effects, and now they can get both, why so much plus? Even zoo cannot keep up with double nourish double innervate, because now druid has six plus cards and 10 mana
BriseagainstM That's an argument I don't want to touch, but why doesn't zoo get any late game they had mal ganis now in standard nothing, how does aggro decks beat late game?
Flamewaker is one of the most op cards ever introduced into the game. I never had a big problem with tunnel trogg, sometimes i like to leave it on the board even though i could spell remove it, the incentive for the opponent to play overload cards is so high he won't pass up on him resulting in a missplay alot of the times on top of that the enemy being overloaded is a big deal the next, which is the turn where i will remove the tunnel trogg efficiently and catch up on board.
+savagepinksock no they don't, leeroy is ran in control deck such as renolock, and miracle rogue, charge doesn't, call of the wild summons taunt and a minion that buffs other minion. A 5-2 charge can trade with most cards in the game
The complaint at hand here is that aggro works BETTER than anything else in the game right now. The best decks in the game are basically aggro decks, and if you try to build any other deck to deal with one of them, it will be overwhelmed by the others. Aggro is frustrating, but fine, but not when it is pushing all other decks out of the meta.
xcept aggro is keepng eveything in check right now.... it needs to be nerfed. its fine as a competitive option but not when it rules the game almost completely, and there are certain OP cards to blame for this.
For justification on sap one could look at the comparison between consecration and exploding trap. Then look back at freezing trap vs. sap. All 4 are cards that are run.
Power Overwhelming is the 1 card i hate the most. I think it's not weird that the name of this card is actually a cheat code from Starcraft 2 that makes all units invincible^^.For sap, personnaly, i would see a 0/1 mana cost ( good for synergy) that removes the minion for 1 turn, would mean it's a like a silence/freeze for 1 turn that would be used to removes a taunt, prevent a combo, stop a ennemi from attacking, etc.. without forcing the adversary to use mana again to play the card again.It's a idea but i guess other ways are possible.
I completely agree with almost every card on your list, especially power overwhelming, abusive sergeant and sap. It's so frustrating when you try and taunt up against a rogue (namely as a druid) and they just keep sapping and smashing you in the face. At least with freezing trap you can plan around it.
Muster for battle: Give your silverhand recruits +1/1 and equip a 1/4 Lights Justice Power Overwhelming: 4 mana: Give a minion +4/4 and charge Abusive Sargent: Deal 1 damage to a minion and give it +2 attack Flamewaker: 4 mana 2/4: Whenever you cast a spell, gain +1 spell damage. Flamejuggler: 2 mana 2/2: Deal 1 damage to a random minion Tunnel Trogg: 1 mana 1/2: Gain +1/1 whenever you cast a card with overload Flamewreathed Faceless: 4 mana 8/8; cannot attack unless you have 4 or more overload Doomhammer: 5 mana 4/4 weapon (Overload 2) Sap: Return a enemy minion to its owners hand. It costs (0) Hope blizzard has enough sense to balance these cards.
For the biggest part agreed: Flamewaker: Is like an overpowered version of knife jugler. Flamewaker should either do 1 damage after playing a spell or should get a hp nerf. Besides: the fact that you can build a whole deck around a 3 mana card as the core card of the deck: it just shows how overpowered flamewaker is. Sap: should be more expansive when used on high mana minions. Something like: mana cost = mana targeted minion minus 2 or something. Meaning a roque can get a small tempo but still has to use a decent ammount of mana for getting a tempo. Tunnel trogg: should only get an attack bonus equal to the overload of the first next time you overload. Mad scientist: should / could be reworked into: Deathrattle: Draw three cards: if any of them is a secret: put those cards in your hand. Put the other drawn cards back into your deck. Flamewreathed Facless: Ridiculous card. Maybe change it into a 5 mana card with overload. (Gives the opponent a turn extra to find / draw / have enough mana to deal upcoming treats.) Abusive sergant: feels bit like leper gnome but then a bit stronger. So in short: enough reason to nerf it slightly. Doomhammer: you have weaponremoval against it or play heavy controll or you lose the game. It's like a minion with windvury but then way less options for your opponent to remove it. Pretty much a card that needs a strong nerf even thou I have no idea how to do so. Power overwhelming: too much stats for cheap cost while having a lot of cheap options to use it on. Maybe make the card so that one of the base requirements is that the card on which power overwheling can be used on needs to be 2 or maybe 3 mana or more. That puts power overwhelming in a spot where it still can be used as a finishing blow but not as a huge tempo play. Disagreeing with Flame jugler and muster for battle: Flame jugler: ehhh quite unexpected to see in the list. The minion is good considering the meta but by far not broken or overpowered. Considering it's just a meta counter and the meta is just broken / too onesided in the kind of plays to make. It's not a minion that needs a nerf on it's self; but the cards that are making the meta that what it is nowdays that need a change. So I wouldn't say this card is hateable that much. Muster for battle: If it's only a problem in arena then I can't say it's a hateable card. This considering you're always into randomness while playing arena. So deal with the fact that either you or your opponent might get a card that's stronger on it's own rather then being stronger in constructed play. Own addition of most hated cards: Ice block and Ice barier: In my opinion secrets should be advantageous card that can either be a great asset or be played around. That said: Ice block and ice barrier are 2 secrets that are (almost) impossible to play around. You either have a secret removal card; or it's impossbile to play around. Ice barrier might still be played around if gotten on the wrong turn / moment for a mage, but ice block will always give a mage an extra turn to totaly burst you down. That while ice barrier is almost always litterly: give a mage 8 armor for 3 mana. No play around it unless you wanne burst 30 hp down with spells which is for a lot of classes impossible.) The second reason why I hate those 2 secrets is because they don't fit in mage as class type spells / secrets. If I think about a mage then I'm thinking about a squishi character with a lot of spell burst or magical summoning and NOT a of a character with lots of armor and imortality. So I believe those secrets really shouldn't belong to mage.
I do not think doomhammer is a problem, i think rockbiter however is broken, just like power overwhelming... a fix could be buff it to 4 dmg and make it only useable on minions
As Reynad also stated in a video, there is good rng and bad rng, bad rng are stupid minions like flame juggler and fiery bat that decide 80% of the time the winner of the game and there is good rng like clockwork gnome or ethereal conjurer that even tough they both can be effective, clockwork gnome doesn't decide the game at turn 1/2 because you want to use that spare part later in the game with an antonidas or wait it out since it costs tempo to play it in early game, ethereal conjurer is also a card that represents good rng because at turn 5, control decks can answer it and can be expected to counter it, but when you see shit like: coin, flame imp, flame imp or tunnel trogg, totem golem, spirit wolf, what can you do as a control deck?
When you think about it, Sap is insane. Druid's Recycle and Priest's Entomb both cost 6, while Sap does essentially the same thing for a third of the mana cost.
Mad Scientist - raise its mana cost (to 3 at least). Muster for Battle - same thing (to 4 at least) or possibly remove weapon durability or one of the 'dudes'. Power Overwhelming - make it a +3/+2 maybe. Abusive Sergeant - make it a 1/1 or possibly even a 0/2 or something (would also like Darkshire Councilman to be changed to a 0/5). Agree on making Flamewaker a 3/3 or lower the number of pings to 1. Flame Juggler - is kind of fine as it is IMO. Tunnel Trogg - I would change the text to "Has +1 attack per locked Mana Crystal WHILE Overloaded", meaning it would drop down to 1 attack again whenever you're not Overloaded. Flamewreathed Faceless is too crazy indeed - raise mana cost to 5 at least or change the health to like 5 or something. Doomhammer - lower the attack to 0, but give it the same text as Tunnel Trogg would be interesting? (Note that Doomhammer would automatically have 2 attack when played, but could get higher attack if other Overload cards are played after). Sap - can only return an enemy minion with a certain attack or health value (kind of like Shadow Word: Pain and Death). Also I definitely think Blizzard need to buff old cards that are totally useless/underpowered as well. And please make 'bad buffs' cards!!!! Cards that give -attack/-health!!! Like Battlecry: Give a minion -1 Attack/-2 Health or something like that! Would be sooooo useful!!!
Honestly, Tunnel Trogg is a cool design, but way too OP. So, how about make it: (1 mana minion) When you Overload, gain +1 Attack. This way he doesn't get up to 5 or whatever attack, he stays down at 2, or 3. His effect makes Shaman decent, the class needed more synergies like this, and everyone's complaining about it, simply because the effect is too EXTREME, not bad, just needs to be tweaked.
I think the only problem with Doomhammer is the fact it can be buffed by one (or two) Rockbiters to equal a 10 or 16 damage burst. Maybe if it wasn't able to be buffed it would be more balanced.
How much more balanced would Tunnel Trogg be if you only gained attack on it when you overloaded, no matter how many crystals you overload for? What do you guys think?
It would be too underbalanced I guess. There are more spells you are willing to play to buff manawyrm than there are overloads that you would want to play in early game to buff trogg
Would it be that undertuned though? Currently, Shaman utilizes plenty of overload cards at 2/3/4/5 mana, and cards like Thing From Below and Lava Shock eliminate most of the drawback. Overload cards are typically higher quality than many mage spells ran to empower Mana Wyrm, and Zoolock shows that it is possible to run even a vanilla 1/3 successfully. Shaman already has too many overstated and undercosted cards as it is, and Tunnel Trogg gets buffed by playing them. It's so strong it is a greater threat than a 2 mana 3/4 in Totem Golem, and decks would cut a second copy of a 4 mana 7/7 before they would this 1 drop. My change shaves a little bit of the gratuitous card Tunnel Trogg has, IMO it would still be clearly playable.
If sap worked like a shadowstep for the enemy minions it would be interesting. Like, you dont need it dead, you just need it NOT THERE for a turn. But by reducing it's mana cost you're not just straight up nullifying a turn.
Sap shouldn't be a fixed cost, but depending on the cost of the minions you are removing, either based on hp/attack or summoning cost, or maybe a combo of all 3.
Change sap so that it just renews the Wait A Turn To Attack effect. It would feel more like WoW's sap and would remove Rogues easy option for big taunts.
Nice video and with some luck it will reach Blizzards hearts and thoughts! ^^ I personally would like to see more of your discussion based style rather than the actual playing. Watching and learning from decision making is nice and the hylights are funny etc., but I find the theoretical part more appealing :) I do agree with your "hate" on the mentioned cards, though you pointed just at the Aggro/Zoo - stuff. For example I am so sick and tired of the transformations and it seems so broken to me, to have a silence effect, a strong debuff and a deny for revival in one card! Same goes for cards like Entomb, which is probably the biggest offender in a control matchup. You simply have to decide, which one of your big threats you wanna feed him...
Hmm, perhaps with Sap they could go the forbidden summoning or ritual route. Where you pay however much mana you have left and remove that cost level of minions from the board. So your oppenent has a 4 cost minion, a 3 cost, and then 2 1 cost. With seven mana you could get the 3 and 4 or some other combination like that.
the most broken card for zoolock is the 1/5 Darkshire Councilman for 3 mana. If you or your opponent isn't able to remove or silence this beast, it snowballs out of control pretty fast, especially with the new cards like 2 drop 2/1 murloc, which summons 1/1 taunt, or forbidden ritual or Implosion
The main issue I have with trying to play control decks is their cost. Blizzard seems to think that big minions and control-oriented spells should be epic or legendary in rarity, meaning control decks that need 4-5 legendaries to be competitive won't be played by a vast majority of players. Perhaps creating some more control-oriented cards in the rare/common rarities would coax players to try out more control decks. Right now, you just can't beat how cheap a zoo lock deck is to craft. It's one of the cheapest decks in the game, and also one of the most powerful. I don't see how this is a decent way to go about things...
Make sap something like; 0 MANA, "The next minion you attack takes no damage and is returned to your opponent's hand." would maybe be a way to deal with the problem. You'd effectively wind up trading that two mana for health.
I think you should do a video on cards that need buffs. It would follow up nicely with the whole idea of not making broken cards to fix classes and instead buffing or reworking old cards. Some on my list of needed buffs/reworks: Totemic Might, Ancestral Healing, Shatter, Power Word: Glory... There are a lot of class cards that just kinda suck. Not deck defining at all, or even run.
Agree with the list, though I would also add Call of Nature (Hunter card). When this card is played on turn 8, the game is pretty much over. There shouldn't be any card like that in the game. That card litterally carried me to rank legend last season as my best rank used to be 5...
You could change Sap, that it takes out a minion for just one turn. For example. The opponent plays Sylvanas. Now Rogue plays Sap on that. For the next round is it out of the game, but the round after that, it comes back without to have to pay the mana costs again.
Sap might be fixed if it was "Return an enemy minion to your opponent's hand for the rest of this turn. It is re-summoned automatically on your opponent's next turn". Like you said, it's really very annoying when you lose an extreme amount of board control/presence by having an extremely important minion being removed by a fucking 2 mana card, then having to reinvest whatever mana you spent to summon it first.
Hi Kripp. I am from Poland and i am sorry if i would make grammar mistake here. In my opinion, Mad scientist is very annoying and you were totally right about how awful is to play 5 mana card for 2 mana but as you said, most of a time people won't even draft a secret of scientist. It is very lucky to even draw it on your opening hand or even later to that card be even usefull. If you would even get that combo right in 2 turn and it will work with the secret it is goin to happen 1 of 12 of your games on arena. In ranked mode scientist was really usefull card in freeze mage or even in face hunter so in my opinion it was good and healthy to the game in competive play. I just disagree that it would be that annoying to add like scientist like card in the future. Thanks if you are reading it right now :) PS: I will still watch you, films are awesome and keep it goin dude!
In answer to sap balance, make it a combo effect to knock minions back over 5(or whatever) mana, that way it still is usefull vs low minions bit requires more input to use as a high tempo move.
Just an idea to rework sap, maybe have some kind of dynamic mana cost for instance "return an opponents minion to there hand, this card costs half of that minions cost" so an 8 drop would cost 4 mana but sapping a 3 drop would be 1 mana. Of course this gets very confusing with Emperor in the game.
Sap: (2 mana spell) Return an enemy minion with 2 or less attack to your opponents hand, it costs 1 more. OR Sap: (1 mana spell) Return an enemy minion with 2 or less attack to your opponents hand. OR Sap: (1 mana spell) Return an enemy minion to your opponents hand, it then costs 2 less. (Probs most OP) OR Sap: (3 mana spell) Randomly return 2 enemy minions to your opponents hand. Version 1 kinda helps against aggro, but not as much as version 2. Version 3 is strictly to do what I believe the card should be designed to do: Remove a big threat right now so that lethal is possible, or valuable/necessary trades can be made. Version 4 is probably the best design IMO, due to the fact the Hearthstone is mainly RNG, and this version is strictly RNG. All versions help to make the control match-up harder, while still thinking of ways to help against aggro.
Some cards might be improved by a mana-cost limiting card text. I feel like a number of cards could be better balanced if the cards were a bit more complex. Blizzard actively avoids complexity to stick to their "anyone can pick up this game and understand it" ideal, but I think this may hinder them quite a bit in the balance area. Sap, for example could read: "Return an enemy minion to your opponent's hand. This can not target a minion with a mana cost of 6 or more."
I don't think Power Overwhelming is a problem. It's like a 1 mana deal 4, except you have to already have enough board presence to lose something. Also doesn't go through taunt. It's like Soulfire, but you have to play the card you discard first.
![[Hearthstone] The Nerfs Have Arrived!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZmqXiKBInEU/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Hearthstone] One Greedy Paladin](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZnszES_LeLU/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Hearthstone] A History of Nerfs](/img/n.gif)
One day, the Papa asks Kripp to go fishing, Kripp shrugs, “Alright, but catch and release only - I’m vegan.” They arrive at the local pristine clear waters of an Ontario stream brimming with wild trout and prepare to fish. Suddenly Kripp shouts, “Get down!”. A crack sounds through the air, and the Papa sees Kripp on the ground bleeding. His final words are, “Fucking stream snipers.”
return the slab bitch
What an epic comment
papa franku
For once, these comments don't involve sexual content, well played...
catch and release is not vegan
1:34 Mad Scientist
3:54 Muster for Battle
5:05 Power Overwhelming
6:34 Abusive Sergeant
7:45 Flamewaker
8:46 Flame Juggler
9:52 Tunnel Trogg
10:42 Flamewreathed Facless (Aka Dr 4 Aka Dr Cancer)
12:35 Doomhammer
14:56 Sap
Thanks
Thanks mate, now I don't have to watch the Kripp
you should rename yourself in Summarino Kripperino
How is Flamewreathed Facless doctor 4? It's stats are 7/7
Sander Hansen 4 mana m8, 4mana cost, 99.9% of all shamans have Flamewrathed Cancer in their deck, and if on hand at turn 4 its played... if they didnt overloaded ofc
ooh look at krill making a video to try to get blizz to nerf cards so he can get Disenchsnting value
kripp
HEY KRIPP YOU'RE NEVER GONNA PRESS THE BUTTON
delicious krill
Where is call of the wild Kripp ?
rip button
16:15 sorry i was at work orientation and i get fired right away if they see you on your phone. And me being on time is going to be spotty with work coming up im done at 3:15 everyday and i would have to use my phone
The duties as a Skip-Kripp-Announcer are ridiculous. I think you should be hired full time by Krittarian himself!!
We kripperinos helperinos eachoter
Yoyo, if it were a list, maybe skip to the first item of the list? :)
Aw, poor skippy Krippy ;(
nice story
my top 5 most hated cards:
1) Ice block
2) Ice block
3) Ice block
4) Golden ice block
5) Kripparrian
kripparrian so op though 9 mana 2/3 battlecry skip your opponent's next 5 turns
where is the counterplay
+Da Obese Stalker and that brann combo tho
ikr? thats 11 turns where you cant play if you combo it with brann D:
my top most hated cards:
1) counterspell
2) sludge belcher
3) snake trap
4) doomhammer
5) Amaz
Amaz is soooo Op! 7 mana 6/3 steal 5 cards from your opponents deck! It's so OP!
Ice block is not overpowered.
Golden Shaman used to mean you are amazing at the game, nowadays it just means "Look at me, I'm a jackass who played 2 days of Face Shaman"
Golden shaman used to mean your a shaman botter
proud to be a warlock botter unlike those shaman botters scum :/
Golden anything doesnt mean you are amazing, it means youve played for fucking 13251235 years
tbh golden shaman used to mean "beep boop im a bot" for a long time
sry to tell you but I think shaman today is way less RNG than it used to be... liking RNG doesnt mean "you are amazing at the game"
0:04 Watch Kripp fuckers.
Fuck you you can't tell me what to do!
i love you XD
There's nothing to skip today FeelsBadMan
Dat name xD, getting ridiculous guys
YEAH! I STAND WITH THE KRIPP!!!
I think that people, generally, hate everything, to be honest:
"Aggro Decks are too fast and boring, since the game ends fast."
"Tempo Decks are too Tempo, if you fall behind, you lose.",
"Control Decks is the child of ResidentSleeper with a Wallet" etc etc.
Etc etc. People will always complain about everything.
so true
aggro deck is the only real cancer. No skill no effort and no time to make it far up the ladder
I think some people do. I recently started playing the game though and have had a lot of success with Zoolock, to the point where I feel like I'm consistency beating players who are better than me because the deck is so strong. So some aggro I think might be a bit OP. Though like I said I'm really new so not as educated.
maybe you should listen to Kripp before thinking. Right now hs is completely controlled by aggro/tempo and even the so called "Zoo"lock is more of a stupid SMOrc deck than a real zoo. So instead of you just complaining about ppl... why dont you tell us what you like? stop complaining and help improve the things you like!
if people are only playing aggro and zoo then there is no point in playing anything else
Kripp says hate exactly 9 times...
I have no life.
but that swag tho
You dont need a life, if you have swag.....
The most frustrating to play against wasn't mentioned: Frothing Beserker. Either you have a way to remove him immediately or you lose the game almost immediately. Way too much power for a 3 drop to have. Likewise, I think Justicar Trueheart is really annoying too. Nearly every other minion no longer has an effect after their death, but this one makes your hero power twice as good for the entire game for some classes, and doesn't have a great effect for others.
Problem is justicar is a 6/3 minion meaning it can be killed by a 2 drop while it's a 6 drop, which means your improved hero power has to make up for probably losing board control...
30 health cap is fine, increasing it isnt a good idea, most cards were made based on 30hp
Fishtard
Sure, but I think even making it 6-6 with the effect only in effect while it's alive would be more balanced. As is it's an auto-include for control warriors and control priests, and other classes don't have nearly as much use for it. And Blizzard says it doesn't want as many auto-include cards.
Justicar is only an "Auto-include" In control warrior, and that only makes up a portion of the warrior decks on ladder. That is as much of an "Auto-include" as Reno Jackson is to Reno Warlock. You aren't required to run Reno Jackson in order to win, and the same goes for Justicar.
+Atlas What?
I actually feel like hearthstone has reached the point where the 30 health cap is just too little for aggro ever not to be the best playstyle, and an increase to 40 or 50 would benefit the general variety of viable decks, rather then nerfing cheap cards.
control warrior would benefit from that a lottt
Control warrior would actually benefit from it the least of all control decks, since they can go over 30 anyway with armor. I feel like renolock would like this the most.
+babelutje While i agree with you in regards to Priest and Reno Warlock, that kind of a buff would make control warrior even more absurd than it already is
Hmm what if different classes had different health caps...
:O What about if all heroes had 30 to start out with, but could go up to 40 with healing?
Tunneltrog should have the stats 1/2 to be fair
Tunnel trogg should be 3 mana 0-1 Battlecry: swap this minionns attack and health.
Tunnel Trogg should scale with totems summoned, not Overload.
The whole point of Overload is to spread a standard mana cost across turns, making it a strategic choice to incur mana "debt" in the future for a tempo advantage. A 3/4 Totem Golem that costs 3 mana is unremarkable, as is a 6 mana 7/7 drop. That's a self-balancing mechanic, and it works fine... in isolation.
The problem is that over the years too many ways to mitigate or benefit from Overload have crept in. There's now 2 ways to just completely remove the "debt" by clearing the crystals, and 2 cards that actually buff themselves up when you're supposed to be taking penalties. Tunnel Trogg is just the cheapest version of these 4 cards, and so fits the aggro meta best.
+Nassadross combo it with brann, BOOM u got urself a 6 mana 2/5
MissionDelta How is that?
The 0/1 + the 2/4 brann.
I hate all priest destroy and steal cards. They are so broken.
Lol nice username
People still hating on priest even though they've never been top tier LUL
+jeffstut55 well to be fair, priests are one of the most annoying overall class to play against, while other classes just have certain deck types that are annoying to play against
+jeffstut55 people don't hate on priest because it's op (unless they're morons) but they hate the play style of priest, "oh, nice cards you got there, mind if I take all of them and tell you to go fuck yourself?"
+jeffstut55 Id prefer going against aggro than go against priest.
Blizzard rarely ever nerf cards. Around 60-70% of all cards in the game could need a buff to compete, and then the game would be alot more diverse and fun to play. I mean, look at Evil heckler and Booty bay bodyguard. Both are 5/4 taunts and offer the exact same purpose, but the newer card Evil heckler costs 1 less mana. They could just hace redone Booty bay bodyguard, but no... Hearthstone is such a unique, cool and overall fun game to play, but Blizzard could actually have made it a much more enjoyable experience than it already is.
I feel you man, and the worst thing is that most of these cards are basic cards, so the cards you get when you start playing the game are absolutely bullcrap.
Yeah I remember swapping them out and repeatedly looking at each thinking I was reading something wrong on one of them lol.
yeah by adding cards like evil heckler blizzard is really hurting their newer and f2p player bases since instead of buffing the old cards, they add better versions that those players wont have access to which forces them to work with a lot of very weak cards, not to mention that the new versions of the cards they add fall out of standard eventually whereas if they just buffed the old cards these player bases would have a much better foundation and would enjoy the game more.
+Erik Klev (Sir Teddy III) funny I see this after informing a noob about evil heckler after seeing a booty bay pirate in his deck XD
Hearthstone would get boring after awhile. I'd rather see new cards and art with the same effects than the same ones with different balancing.
I think a creature that dies due to the Power Overwhelming buff should get silenced right before it dies. This way, it actually retains the point of you sacrificing a creatyure for such a large damage burst, and I actually think it makes the card less confusing too. The 'then it dies. Horribly' text only really makes the card more confusing, and the text would actually make sense if the creature is silenced first because it dies so horribly that no other creatures can spawn from it.
I hope this made sense
Sap makes Control bad? I think the better answer is Entomb, That card has caused me to table Flip alot and its why i officially hate priest with a burning passion.
amen to that. Entomb is currently my least favorite card, and has caused me the most suffering. I have accepted being punched in the dick by zoo (the trick is to realized that they are part of the cancerous population that hates the game but has to be "good" at it anyway), but entomb just feels like cheating. HAHA stupid priest, fear my Salvanis. oh...entomb. Well guess WHAT, that was all part of the plan, now fear my Reno Jackson. oh...another entomb. fun playing with you mister priest. I'm just gonna go throw this computer out this window here...
+Jack Anderson I can't take you seriously because you spelled Sylvanas wrong. Like seriously dude, Google is right there.
I hate entomb because it makes me feel bad for playing control, instead of playing 1-2 drop aggro minions I play bigger and more interesting minions, only to see them get stolen.
Even that I am a Priest player, yeah I agree. But tbh every priest deck is controlish so
It should be nerfed to 8 mana
As someone who plays a ton of priest I can say that entomb is pretty broken, but since priest no longer has deathlord or lightbomb all you really have to do to play around entomb as a control deck is play more than 4 big threats and accept the fact that two will die to death, and two will get entombed lol. This is why priest has trouble with top-heavy paladin decks for example because they just have too many threats
My most hated cards are all of freeze mages cards.
Nathan Holstrom Well they are swarming the eu ladder cuz i just played so many of those fuckers yesterday
playing freeze mage in 2016 sigh
I mean freeze mage against zoo and mage isn't running flame waker or any flame strikes, Zoo will win hands down, unless they run some crazy cthun build and then it's no longer freeze mage
Berkay Shady I have NEVER bricked out playing aggro warlock zoo, all you need is like three late game cards, it's all about that perfect early game curve
IF YOU CANT BEAT EM, JOIN THEM
I agree with a lot of what Kripp said. I think the biggest problem is low cost offensively oriented cards with so much health that they are quite hard to remove, especially when big minions can often be removed as easily.
The biggest offender is Tunnel Trogg, but other similar cards such as Mana Wyrm, Frothing Berserker, Flamewaker and Darkshire Councilman are in a similar position. Just the fact that they have 3, 4 or 5 health makes them quite resilient, especially against traditional board clears and if you leave them unchecked for a single turn the damage can really start to add up, especially if you have to resort to using weapons to remove them after they have received multiple buffs.
The biggest problem with Doomhammer is that it doubles the effectiveness of Rockbiter Weapon while on it's own already a good card. A 7 mana 3 card 16 burst combo that leaves you with a 2-6 windfury weapon, allowing another 12 damage to be dealt is on it's own quite close to the 30 health a hero has.
And Power Overwhelming is another quite big problem, not only because it essentially reads 1 mana deal 4 damage, but because with Dark Peddler, you can realistically have 4 in your hand which is 4 mana 16 burst damage that requires only having 1 minion on the board or a creature with charge. Most often this creature is Leeroy Jenkins resulting in 9 mana deal 22 damage from an empty board.
I'm actually glad they removed cards like Antique Healbot, having every class being able to access arguably the best heal in the game devalued a lot of what control paladin and priest could do, however having very little reliable and good healing makes aggro decks harder to deal with for control as any incidental damage becomes much more meaningful.
Another of my big problems specifically with ZooLock is that the Joust mechanic was aimed for control decks to have a stronger answer vs aggro decks, but ZooLock can run Sea Giant, Leeroy Jenkins and Doomguard, meaning they can actually win jousts without compromising their deck's strategy and getting powerful minions for cheap (Doomguard often is a 5 mana 5/7 with no drawback in zoo whilst Sea Giant often is a 0 mana 8/8)
call of the wild is on my list too.
+Le Dude I think he means the shaman 4-cost 7-7, that overloads for 2.
THE FEAST OF SOULS BEGINS NOW!!! COME LITTLE ONES!
It's so broken, you get 3 minions, a 4/2, a 2/4 and a 4/4 for 8 mana, which is already 10/10 in stats for 8 mana, on top of that 2 minions have +1 attack so you get 12/10 in stats and then one has charge and one has taunt so you're getting 12/10 in stats with small taunt and small charge so it's crazy unbalanced
i agree but thy need to give hunter some good cards and then nerf call of the wild.
how about a 6 cost 6/5 with death rattle summon 2 x 2/2 beasts? or a 3 mana spell that deals 5 dmg? maybe a 3 cost spell that summons 5 x 1/1s? or a 3 cost spell that summons a random decent 4 mana minion? Do you think some of those cards might be decent enough for hunter?
Mad Scientist - Good reasoning, Mad Scientist is indeed insane. Through you spoke about the card draw effect you didn't mention the "deck clearing effect". Secrets are amongst the weakest draws in the game in most situation as they hardly, if ever, solve the current board state, so removing them from the possible draw is also pretty good. It's similar to how effects that search for land are extra strong in magicthegathering because they not only increase land in play but reduce lands in deck so you can draw the cards that can solve your problems.
Muster for battle - if you see at as 1 light's justice (1 mana) + 3 wisps (0 mana) + 3 draws (1 for each wisp, 3 mana) it is being underpriced, but they did opt for the overprice in "Ball of Spiders" and no one use. It might have been a bad judgement call and the choice should be inverted, but since Blizzard isn't open to experiment with balancing the game we'll probably never know.
Power Overwhelming - Again, nice reasoning. The game did evolve in a way that made Power Overwhelming more powerful. Maybe it is time blizzard abandon the Zoolock and prints more card to play the "sacrifice for power" gameplay like "Tiny Knight of Evil" and "Sucubus", instead of "Possesed Villager" to support the solution players had to play Warlock when the classic set didn't gave enough power for your sacrifices (The time when Warlock was the class to use the lesser amount of class card and evolved around tapping for zooing).
Abusive Sergeant - Either turn him in a buff minion (1/1 statline ability, or even 1/2 to target the nerf at agression) or weaken the buff (+1 attack). The game is showing you can't have both, Just like Leper Gnome.
Tunnel Trogg - Either have it be easier to remove across all class (1/2 statline) or admit he is too cheap for the effect and have it be +1 regardless of the overload value OR temporary.
Flamewreathed Faceless - This card is better than its cost and allow you to pay in 2 turns. It should at least be 7/6 to be removeable by Fireball. Right now it gives +1 attack compared to Boulderfist Ogre and cost the same ammount accross 2 turns. Pick one advantage.
Doomhammer - I'm actually ok with Doomhammer. Maybe have some weapon removal that challenges the meta added to the game if it remains trapping you against 2 choices that are bad in the long run. Example 4 mana 2/6 Taunt neutral minion with "If attacked by a weapon, destroy the weapon". It isn't as good as the slime to remove the weapon but it's good against several small minion, while the slime is weaker to them, more options is a good thing. (I'm also waiting for "Steal weapon" rogue card since classic, but that's just something I'd find fun - and I play more Warrior or Paladin than rogue so I should be biased against it)
Sap - Honestly while I see where the sentiment come from I don't see how to fix without breaking which kind of make me think the card is ok as it is, but I know how it feels to get sapped away from the game.
I honestly felt very bad with the wild/standard decision to no longer balance old cards. C'thun's Chosen and Silvermoon Guardian healthy state in the game is almost a proof Blizzard screwed up with Piloted Shredder and a how to fix it (6 total stats as 3/3 or 4/2). Dr. Boom clearly needs work and I'd rather be unallowed to dust the nerfed boom than have it stay in the game in this state. I crafted him furiously. There is no "Dr Boom design space", no particular strategic niche, the reason you pick him is because he bruteforce his way into your deck and leave you with a bitter taste in your mouth. I honestly have less fun everytime I use him in Tavern Brawl.
I also honestly think Nozdormu needs work. Not because it's op, but because it is "strong cheating". I'd rather have it be an honest card that didn't screw my oponent over animation times and me trying to cheat him playing "Curse of Rafaan" or joust or queueing several actions fast and passing and hoping to cheat him out of a turn and have it have more power in some way. Like reading "Your oponent turn last 12 seconds - you can't do those shenaningans to screw him anymore". Right now it's a fun card gone to waste.
How about sap costing half the mana of the card it's trying to return to the opponents hand? So if you return a 2 drop it costs 1, if you return a 4-drop it costs 2 and if you return a 10 drop it costs 5 (rounded up for uneven numbers). This means that it is still a tempo-card and can be used efficiently in the early-midgame but falls off somewhat come turn 6 and is a strictly worse assasinate most of the time if you play it turn 10.
dayum yes
nobody would use it. if anything it would help your opponent a lot. it sets up synergies with bran + many more and help your opponent set up crazy turns later on.
Make assassinate four mana and we have a deal.
Kappa.
Fuggel I think it would be used on mindrange decks, it's still very efficient when dealing with medium sized threats, and less punishing when used against aggressive decks. It punishes things like Flamewreathed Faceless really well.
I do not see how sap currently would be any better against battlecry-minions. The primary targets for sap is the giant minions that some control decks include.
The primary problem with my suggested change is actually that the cardtext would be really confusing I think.
"Oh sap is so useless why does this card exist?"
[fights a good rogue]
Ugh this card is too overpowered fuck this game.
I personally don't feel that doomhammer is broken, it's rockbiter that is. if we change rockbiter to only target minions, then doomhammer can be used more for control rather than face burst damage.
then rockbiter's kindaaaaa trash
spot on :)
Rock biter would in my opinion be too weak as its strength, outside of doom hammer burst, lies in it being a semi weapon. I would recommend something like until the next attack +3 attack. It would kinda break after the first time used taking away wind fury synergy but making it last for multiple turns if simply hold. (Sry if bad English btw no native speaker)
notice how i said rockbiter can target minions, not just friendly minions. Idk, maybe potential bgh synergy.
+Aaron Yu but if nobody plays bgh anymore then that doesn't matter
Honestly does Kripp just wake up every morning and slash at his face with a safety razor?
Poor skipp. His boss probably got tired of him taking a bathroom break at 3 every day.
Make sap cost the same as the minion it sends back
Boom rogue is balanced
+Enjoy Bacon destroyed*
then it would be ridiculously underpowered. Like not even warsong commander level. It would be straight out the worst card in the game. So yea probably that is what will happen to it if it gets nerfed. Most cards they nerf are usually just nerfed to oblivion. There are a few exceptions of course, see gadgetzan, leeroy, sylvanas, unleash. Those are still usable cards.
make it cost 2 less than the minion
Forbidden Resin
Logical Nerfs:
Sap:
2 mana: return a minion with 5 or less attack to its owners hand
4 mana: return an enemy minion to your opponents hand
3 mana: return all 1 health minions to their owners hand
2 mana: return an enemy minion to your opponents hand, it costs 2 less
Power Overwhelming:
3 mana: give a friendly minion +4/+4 and destroy it at the end of your turn
1 mana: give a friendly minion +4 attack and destroy it at the end of your turn, discard a card
1 mana: give a friendly minion +2/+2 and destroy it at the end of your turn
Blizzard Nerfs:
Sap:
6 mana: return a friendly minion to your hand
Power overwhelming:
8 mana: give a minion +1/+1
I really wish Blizzard could give every other class except Warlock a cheaper AoE board clear. Because Zoo is cancer and sucks the fun out of the game ;-;
RiP blade flurry
i miss Lightbomb Bouncing Blade and Blade Flurry
and non-shamans need cheaper hard removal. 4 mana 7/7. broken much?
Zoo was cancer since Reynad posted the original optimized aggro list for Warlock back in beta (I believe he issued his first Zoo list in December 2013).
Cards came and went, but to the core, that deck hasn't changed.
But there really isn't much you can do about it. It's the eternal struggle between aggro/control. If you don't manage to take the upper hand early on against aggro you lost. Unless you let it run out of steam intentionally because you're running a Reno deck. In which case all I can say is, taste the salt when you heal back up to 30.
+Tywin Lannister rip shieldbearer
Sap could be made to cost the same mana as the minion you use it on, or could be combined with shadow step into a card that makes your minions cheaper but make the opponents more expensive when used on them
maybe there should be a card that cost 0 mana that draws you a card that is also a 1/1 charge :)
A way to balance Sap would be to treat it in the opposite way that Freezing trap works. With freezing you have the control of what get backs to your hand so to have additional cost is fine. My suggestion would then be that when your minions get sapped, it costs 2 less the next turn. It still retains the same utility to remove an immediate threat, but it would not give you a way to stall the game as vanish does (which is fine at 6 mana).
6:22 If PO was +3/+3 wouldn't Blessing of Might from Paladin be better in nearly every case? Since it also stays on the board. I don't like it either but it would make it inferior since the health bonus doesn't matter when it dies at the end of the turn.
But blessing of kings is 4 mana and sees no play.PO is 1 mana which can be used for burst,can be discovered by dark peddler and is overall unfair because of all the tokens zoo has now
Why do you think a 1 mana warlock card and a 3 mana paladin card need to be on a similar level?
Tossover6 I didn't say Blessing of Kings! I said Blessing of *Might*. It is 2 different cards... Blessing of Might gives one minion +3 attack for 1 mana.
Well it's already better than Cold Blood in most scenarios.
Greg Jackson Wtf? It is a 1 mana card which buffs a card with +3 damage. What are you thinking of?
-Seems like no one actually read what card is written.-
changing sap to say "return an enemy minion to your opponent's hand. It costs (5)" would do sorta what you want. makes small minions harder to play but allows bigger minions to be played with something else the next turn, possibly opening up a combo opportunity for them.
My honest opinion if you want em Kripp:
[1] Mad Scientist is a card that should never have been made. Kripp's points are solid.
[2] Muster for Battle is too much value packed into one card. I don't hate it nearly as much as Kripp tho :P
[3] Power Overwhelm is too strong right now, but I don't think the card is to blame. Rogue also has Cold Blood which does basically the same thing, but Cold Blood is not view as too OP. The problem with Power Overwhelming is because Warlock have access to SO many low cost sticky minions, a hero power that draws cards, and the most OP discover card in the game, Dark Peddler. Dark Peddler by far is a bigger offender than PO since it can generate the incredibly powerful warlock 1-drop of choice such as PO for no cost.
[4] Abusive Sergeant is dumb and needs nerf. Playing 2 abusive in 2 turns unhindered leads to 8 damage for 2 mana.
[5] Flamewaker can single-handedly win the game for you if you have spells in your hand. Turn 3 Flamwaker + Coin + Arcane Missile = 7 separate pings. How is this card fair? I got a Flamewaker from Undercity Huckster in once match and proceeded to wreck the mage's day with my rogue. He stayed on the board the entire time forcing a concede. I wasn't even playing miracle rogue. If my deck was built for it like Tempo Mage's then drawing 2 or these means instantly winning.
[6] Flame Juggler is only strong because Divine Shield and OP-ass 1 drops are so common right now. The card is fine as is once the meta changes.
[7] LOL Tunnel Trogg. OP card is OP. Overload is a price to be paid, if the price is a buff then overload cards are insane.
[8] Flamewreathed Facelsss is really strong, but very weak to priests who have an easy punish. Only reason it is OP is because of the whole "Overload is a price but also a buff" BS going on.
[9] Doomhammer is too broken. 16 total unrestricted windfury damage for 5 mana is broken. 16 total unrestricted windfury damage for 7 mana is still broken. I know that Gorehowl does 28 restricted damage for 7 mana, but the restriction makes Gorehowl a fair card. The only other weapon that does more total damage than twice its mana cost is Assassin's Blade, but Assassin's blade has no OP effect like windfury and negative synergy with rogue's hero power. Let's not forget the incredible synergy this card has with Rockbiter weapon. This card alone is holding back weapon based decks since so many people are running weapon removal. Even 1/2 wicked blade that I have after I play Sir Finley Mrrgglton is even a target to these removals ; ;.
[10] I agree Sap is bad, but why is Entomb not also on this list? Entomb basically does everything that you hate about Sap except you can't play the card next turn. Sap has negative synergy against battlecries which is its weakness. Entomb has no negative synergy for it's effect. Entomb is a Silence, Removal, Anti-Fatigue, and +Value all in one card. Entomb is by far worse for the control meta than Sap which is a rogue card, and rogues need cards like Sap to survive in the control meta. Maybe make Sap cost 3 mana and call it a day? In arena sap is broken as hell though since it is that much harder to good battlecry creatures.
Nighfallion I agree
Just small adjustments make the cards still usable:
- Power Overwhelming: Restrict it to 3-mana or less cards
- Flamewreathed: Make it 7/6, so its slightly easier to kill
- Flame Juggler: Sorry, I feel this card isn't all THAT broken, since its still random.
- Flamewaker: 2/3 is enough
- Abusive: 1/1 is enough
- Doomhammer should be 6 mana...
- Sap, restricted to 6 mana or less minions...
Hahaha so funny to watch this in 2017. Good old times when 4 mana 7/7 was considered op. Hearthstone is so bad right now that you sometimes don't even reach turn 4.
One interesting way to redo sap would be -2 mana return an enemy minion to their hand, costs 1 more for each attack of the minion. That way you could gain mana by throwing it at a 1 attack card, but it would cost more to remove something big.
Mine as a Priest main are:
Druid - Mulch
Hunter - Freezing Trap, Call of the Wild (honestly, this whole class together is my most hated one, I can't seem to win against it)
Mage - Flamewaker, Fireball
Paladin - Divine Favor, Anyfin Can Happen, Steward of Darkshire
Priest - Thoughtsteal, Shifting Shade, Entomb (I play priest but it's annoying how much value we can get out of this, especially when they Thoughtsteal your Entomb or what you've entombed before)
Rogue - I don't seem to hate any specific card, but playing against Rogue is always so annoying, especially N'zoth Rogue, they get so much value out of the deathrattles.
Shaman - Rockbiter + Doomhammer, Thing from Below (also the same as Hunter, but they are so predictable so it's easier to win against them)
Warlock - Power Overwhelming, Darkshire Councilman, Soulfire, Doomguard, Jaraxxus
Warrior - Shield Slam, Fiery War Axe, Frothing Berserker, Brawl, Gorehowl
Neutral - Dark Iron Dwarf, Azure Drake, Leeroy Jenkins, Twin Emperor Vek'lor, N'zoth (only in Rogue), Yogg-Saron
Kripparrian. What if sapped minion would cost 4 or 5 mana?
Yeah that's what I thought. "Return an enemy minion into your opponent's hand. It costs (5)."
That seems absurdly broken too, at least against low drops. I think something like "Return an enemy minion to your opponents hand, it costs (2) less" would be a bit better.
+KatakiDoragon You almost never sap low drops though and if you do, you want to delay those Darkshire Councilmans or Things from Below which are OP in and of themselves. I don't think it's bad to have a card that helps with that. You'd still save up your sap to deal with at least 6-drops against say a tempo warrior.
Mad scientisd: increase cost by 1, muster: summon 2 instead of 3 and increase cost by 1, abusive: 1/1/1, flame waker, trigger once per turn, flamefaceless overload 3, hp -1, doomhammer cost+1, Sap: and reduce it's cost by 3.
Surprised entomb isn't on this list
I know right? "Urr Durr i'm a C'thun Priest playing against a C'thun Warrior. Oh, what's that? A Twin Emperor? Well it's mine now, wow i'm such an skilled player!"
+Typical Weeaboo (LeFenikkusu) u mad bro
You people realize that in the 20 decks that are tier 1, 2, and 3 there is maybe one priest deck, if that? I don't know where you are in the ladder but higher up you play about 1 priest every 100 games. Entomb isn't even broken, often it's worse than swd
Burnt Taco I know, i'm really salty right now.
INCREASE ACCESSIBILITY AND REWARDS FOR PLAYING SLOW DECKS!
I dont mind aggro / zoo decks, the main reason people play them isn't the fact that they're ez to play or something, the two biggest reasons are that you can make a decent zoo deck relatively cheaply and that the games are much shorter.
I confess that I have no idea on what kinda cards to introduce to enable some reasonably efficient budget control decks, but for increasing the rewards I see two ways:
1.) increase the number of stars you get for winning in a game with more than, say, 15 turns (would work only till rank 5, like the winstreak reward does)
2.)kinda adjust dailies - this might be harder to work out (and not that important imo), but when you have that 60 gold daily, even though it's for a class you dont usually play, you're much less likely to cycle it and you would probably prefer to get it dona asap, hence prefering aggro to fatigue ^^ could again be based on adjusting the quest progression on the number of turns the game lasted
If tunnel trogg gets hate shouldn't mana wyrm get hate too?
Well tunnel trogg scales quicker, since it gets attack for each overload, mana wyrm only 1 for each spell.
tunnel trogg is even easier to buff tp crazy numbers and is in a class that fits aggro even better with a crazy 2 3 and 4drops that synergize with it
Well, he did allude to it by mentioning the "other 1-drops that get buffs". Trogg is the bigger offender of the two, but I do agree with your premise. If Trogg really is a problem then Mana Wyrm must be too.
+soggytoast111 difference is wyrm gets plus 1 for each spell
trogg can get plus 2 while summoning a 3/4...
+CodingWarriors ok fine, a 3/3 and a 7/7 on turn 4 with coin because balances
On this topic, I think Priests have too many removals. Here a list: The classic stuff - 1.Shadow Word: Pain, 2.Shadow Word: Death, 3.Entomb, 4.Mind Control. In total, they can run over 6 big minions and 2 small ones. And this means that if you want to play not aggro deck they will win. But on top of that, they have AoE cards that deal your other stuff. 1.Excavated Evil, 2.Embrace the Shadow/Auchenai Soulpriest with Flash Heal, Circle of Healing and Justicar Trueheart Hero power. And on top of all this, they can steal your cards. One of the most annoying class to play against.
This youtuber is look very nerd :/
Wtf is that thumbnail
Me to
:/
you forgot wow
wow this youtuber look very nerd
The first fix to Sap which really comes to mind is to make it a 0 mana spell, but it can only target minions below 5 mana in base cost.
My most hated card is that priest card that takes your card and puts it in there deck
Yeah entomb is broken. Priests need the help though
+Kyle Huber its balanced but it's annoying
Priest is shit, now go away.
Its balanced because Priest only has 2 good minions and on of those is good because it kills itself and the board. Priest can't play shit till turn 4, so they are dead beforw it can be played.
It's not that balanced. Compare it to druids recycle. I think the best way to nerf enthomb is making it a "Shuffle a minion into your opponents deck and put its copy into your deck"
Changes to make these cards more balanced-ish
Mad Scientist - Change to "Deathrattle: Add a secret from your deck to your hand." (Makes it less tempo without killing it entirely)
Muster for battle - Change to "Place a random 2 cost paladin minion into play and equip a 1/4 weapon. (goes from instantly winning to sometimes instantly winning)
Power Overwhelming - Add text "Discard a random card" (soul fire, but you can still make the buff permanent if you are playing it that way.)
Abusive Sergeant - Change to "Battlecry: Give a minion +2 Attack and lower its health by 1 this turn" (instantly kills the minion if it is a 1 health, makes the cost more of a cost, or can be used in a Cruel task master sort of way)
Flame Juggler - Change to "When this minion attacks deal 1 damage to the target." (if the target dies it still counts as having attacked. Basically give it "kinda first strike")
Tunnel Trogg - Change to "This minion has +1 attack for each locked mana crystal" (loses the bonus once the crystal is no longer locked)
Flamewreathed Faceless - Change to 3/6, Add text "When this minion attacks another minion it gains +3 attack for this turn" (makes it less of a face card and possible to trade against without always losing your board)
Doomhammer - Change to 2/7, Overload (2) "At the start of your turn your hero gains Windfury" (The first turn it's a single attack giving you a turn to counter it)
Sap - Change to 0 mana, Add text "cost mana equal to the attack of the targeted minion" (If you don't have enough mana sap cost 0 mana, does nothing and you lose the card. That way even against big minions it can act as a combo activator at least.)
I think that would change the cards from OP to situational.
TL:DR - I agree Kripp, good video.
Is it just me or does it seem like all of kripp's fans absolutely hate him XD
dang salt boy
Most people subscribe to watch RNG ruin his life.
i like kirpp, he works hard to provi good content.
He's the definition of hearthstone players and the fandom as a whole.
He's a big, snooty jerk with the redeeming quality of being intelligent and contributing to his community with his interesting takes and criticisms.
I don't hate him, but I do like to watch him burn.
No, but some find enjoyment in trolling.
The best change I can think about for sap is changing the mana cost to the cost of the minion your trying to remove. Removes a 5 drop for 5 mana, removes a 3 drop for 3 mana etc.
Make abusive a 1/1 and make sap cost 3 mana. Everything fixed. gg
Kappa
nice list. couple of my most hated cards: 1) bog creeper - this card can single handedly swing an arena game so hard. super annoying when opponent top decks it, slams it down, you have no removal in hand and have to sacrifice your entire board potentially losing you the game (plus opponent always has removal when you play your own bog creeper >.
I just hate cards in general
As a new player at the bottom of the leader I find Reno Jackson to be the worst possible card:
1. Any new player can get it quite fast
2. When playing against some other new player that card can decide the game by itself.
3. The fact that you can only have one copy of each of your cards means that you are less likely to find synergys between cards that you did not think of before. (Most new players are not able to figure those out by just reading the card texts)
This creates a situation in which a new player has a powerfull card that lets them win, and at the same time slowes down their learning process, leading to them relying on it even more.
The introduction of C'Thun really helped here, since it is as powerfull but at the same time teaches synergy.
I just hope Blizzard will not make another card like Reno.
RENO IS LOVE
Where's divine favor?!
Aggro pally is dead
Doesn't remove the fact that it's a fundamentally broken card.
Its only good vs control, vs aggro like the meta is its a dead card. Its high risk, high reward, like battle rage is similar because you need to be ahead for battle rage to work.
Go play divine favor against a zoo. You'll be pissed.
+Atlas no aggro is dead
I agree with everything except maybe muster. The real problem for cards like muster are the aggro/zoo enablers (abusive sergeant, certain buffs, etc.) Bonus points to muster for getting light's justice into play.
Don't you nerf my PO!
I cant wait for warlock and shaman to feel what happened to rogue and patron
+Tossover6 implying rogue only got shafted once?
Fk you and your zoo
+Tossover6 Rogue still one of the best classes atm..
+Marvin Cubero not anymore. Shaman is the counter to rogue and it's like 40% of ladder right now
An spontaneous idea for Sap would be change the cost to X, where X is the cost of the minion you'd like to Sap.
Obviously that would make it way worse for high mana drops but if you've already got board, it's still a very strong tempo push.
First off there's no legendarys on your list. Secondly Tirion Fordring is one of the most Bullshit cards in this game, he's the reason everyone has to run silence in their deck, because doing anything else to him will lose you the game
If you can't completely run over zoo with Tirion in your deck, you need to uninstall Hearthstone
Plus the fact that Druid has so many choose one effects, and now they can get both, why so much plus? Even zoo cannot keep up with double nourish double innervate, because now druid has six plus cards and 10 mana
tirion is perfectly fine...go back to playing rank 20
Lmao tirion is an 8 drop. Anything over 7 mana has to be insane or it's not worth playing
BriseagainstM That's an argument I don't want to touch, but why doesn't zoo get any late game they had mal ganis now in standard nothing, how does aggro decks beat late game?
Flamewaker is one of the most op cards ever introduced into the game.
I never had a big problem with tunnel trogg, sometimes i like to leave it on the board even though i could spell remove it, the incentive for the opponent to play overload cards is so high he won't pass up on him resulting in a missplay alot of the times on top of that the enemy being overloaded is a big deal the next, which is the turn where i will remove the tunnel trogg efficiently and catch up on board.
Sorry kripp blizzard will never buff old non-used cards, they care to much about the $$$ *cough* I mean the community!
Aren't you glad you had to wait a whole 3 years just to be proven wrong? *3 years*
Flamewreathed faceless could easily be nerf to a 6/7 for 4 overload 2. That'll basically make it a boulderfist ogre and thus make it ok.
no call of the wild? the strongest aggro card in the game ?
Midrange*
Tim Hardeman it's an aggro card
Atlas it is an aggro card, all cards with charge are aggro cards.
+savagepinksock no they don't, leeroy is ran in control deck such as renolock, and miracle rogue, charge doesn't, call of the wild summons taunt and a minion that buffs other minion. A 5-2 charge can trade with most cards in the game
+savagepinksock Aggro is just low curve cards that have/generate lots of attacking power
Kripp's sarcasm at 12:25 regarding the discussion from 11:38 ~ was hilarious. Blizzard people watching this must be butthurt now.
Kripp hates aggro.. ok.. we got it kkkk
Most of HS community does. Well the non degenerates who try to play for some fun not just rush those games.
Yep.. I agree... BUT.. The aggro works and the peoples will keep using it
The complaint at hand here is that aggro works BETTER than anything else in the game right now. The best decks in the game are basically aggro decks, and if you try to build any other deck to deal with one of them, it will be overwhelmed by the others.
Aggro is frustrating, but fine, but not when it is pushing all other decks out of the meta.
Aggro is necessary to keep Midrange in check.
xcept aggro is keepng eveything in check right now.... it needs to be nerfed. its fine as a competitive option but not when it rules the game almost completely, and there are certain OP cards to blame for this.
For justification on sap one could look at the comparison between consecration and exploding trap. Then look back at freezing trap vs. sap. All 4 are cards that are run.
Keep this comment at 0 likes
like not even hour
Power Overwhelming is the 1 card i hate the most. I think it's not weird that the name of this card is actually a cheat code from Starcraft 2 that makes all units invincible^^.For sap, personnaly, i would see a 0/1 mana cost ( good for synergy) that removes the minion for 1 turn, would mean it's a like a silence/freeze for 1 turn that would be used to removes a taunt, prevent a combo, stop a ennemi from attacking, etc.. without forcing the adversary to use mana again to play the card again.It's a idea but i guess other ways are possible.
I completely agree with almost every card on your list, especially power overwhelming, abusive sergeant and sap. It's so frustrating when you try and taunt up against a rogue (namely as a druid) and they just keep sapping and smashing you in the face. At least with freezing trap you can plan around it.
Muster for battle: Give your silverhand recruits +1/1 and equip a 1/4 Lights Justice
Power Overwhelming: 4 mana: Give a minion +4/4 and charge
Abusive Sargent: Deal 1 damage to a minion and give it +2 attack
Flamewaker: 4 mana 2/4: Whenever you cast a spell, gain +1 spell damage.
Flamejuggler: 2 mana 2/2: Deal 1 damage to a random minion
Tunnel Trogg: 1 mana 1/2: Gain +1/1 whenever you cast a card with overload
Flamewreathed Faceless: 4 mana 8/8; cannot attack unless you have 4 or more
overload
Doomhammer: 5 mana 4/4 weapon (Overload 2)
Sap: Return a enemy minion to its owners hand. It costs (0)
Hope blizzard has enough sense to balance these cards.
For the biggest part agreed:
Flamewaker: Is like an overpowered version of knife jugler. Flamewaker should either do 1 damage after playing a spell or should get a hp nerf. Besides: the fact that you can build a whole deck around a 3 mana card as the core card of the deck: it just shows how overpowered flamewaker is.
Sap: should be more expansive when used on high mana minions. Something like: mana cost = mana targeted minion minus 2 or something. Meaning a roque can get a small tempo but still has to use a decent ammount of mana for getting a tempo.
Tunnel trogg: should only get an attack bonus equal to the overload of the first next time you overload.
Mad scientist: should / could be reworked into: Deathrattle: Draw three cards: if any of them is a secret: put those cards in your hand. Put the other drawn cards back into your deck.
Flamewreathed Facless: Ridiculous card. Maybe change it into a 5 mana card with overload. (Gives the opponent a turn extra to find / draw / have enough mana to deal upcoming treats.)
Abusive sergant: feels bit like leper gnome but then a bit stronger. So in short: enough reason to nerf it slightly.
Doomhammer: you have weaponremoval against it or play heavy controll or you lose the game. It's like a minion with windvury but then way less options for your opponent to remove it. Pretty much a card that needs a strong nerf even thou I have no idea how to do so.
Power overwhelming: too much stats for cheap cost while having a lot of cheap options to use it on. Maybe make the card so that one of the base requirements is that the card on which power overwheling can be used on needs to be 2 or maybe 3 mana or more. That puts power overwhelming in a spot where it still can be used as a finishing blow but not as a huge tempo play.
Disagreeing with Flame jugler and muster for battle:
Flame jugler: ehhh quite unexpected to see in the list. The minion is good considering the meta but by far not broken or overpowered. Considering it's just a meta counter and the meta is just broken / too onesided in the kind of plays to make. It's not a minion that needs a nerf on it's self; but the cards that are making the meta that what it is nowdays that need a change. So I wouldn't say this card is hateable that much.
Muster for battle: If it's only a problem in arena then I can't say it's a hateable card. This considering you're always into randomness while playing arena. So deal with the fact that either you or your opponent might get a card that's stronger on it's own rather then being stronger in constructed play.
Own addition of most hated cards:
Ice block and Ice barier: In my opinion secrets should be advantageous card that can either be a great asset or be played around. That said: Ice block and ice barrier are 2 secrets that are (almost) impossible to play around. You either have a secret removal card; or it's impossbile to play around. Ice barrier might still be played around if gotten on the wrong turn / moment for a mage, but ice block will always give a mage an extra turn to totaly burst you down. That while ice barrier is almost always litterly: give a mage 8 armor for 3 mana. No play around it unless you wanne burst 30 hp down with spells which is for a lot of classes impossible.)
The second reason why I hate those 2 secrets is because they don't fit in mage as class type spells / secrets. If I think about a mage then I'm thinking about a squishi character with a lot of spell burst or magical summoning and NOT a of a character with lots of armor and imortality. So I believe those secrets really shouldn't belong to mage.
I do not think doomhammer is a problem, i think rockbiter however is broken, just like power overwhelming... a fix could be buff it to 4 dmg and make it only useable on minions
As Reynad also stated in a video, there is good rng and bad rng, bad rng are stupid minions like flame juggler and fiery bat that decide 80% of the time the winner of the game and there is good rng like clockwork gnome or ethereal conjurer that even tough they both can be effective, clockwork gnome doesn't decide the game at turn 1/2 because you want to use that spare part later in the game with an antonidas or wait it out since it costs tempo to play it in early game, ethereal conjurer is also a card that represents good rng because at turn 5, control decks can answer it and can be expected to counter it, but when you see shit like: coin, flame imp, flame imp or tunnel trogg, totem golem, spirit wolf, what can you do as a control deck?
When you think about it, Sap is insane. Druid's Recycle and Priest's Entomb both cost 6, while Sap does essentially the same thing for a third of the mana cost.
Mad Scientist - raise its mana cost (to 3 at least).
Muster for Battle - same thing (to 4 at least) or possibly remove weapon durability or one of the 'dudes'.
Power Overwhelming - make it a +3/+2 maybe.
Abusive Sergeant - make it a 1/1 or possibly even a 0/2 or something (would also like Darkshire Councilman to be changed to a 0/5).
Agree on making Flamewaker a 3/3 or lower the number of pings to 1.
Flame Juggler - is kind of fine as it is IMO.
Tunnel Trogg - I would change the text to "Has +1 attack per locked Mana Crystal WHILE Overloaded", meaning it would drop down to 1 attack again whenever you're not Overloaded.
Flamewreathed Faceless is too crazy indeed - raise mana cost to 5 at least or change the health to like 5 or something.
Doomhammer - lower the attack to 0, but give it the same text as Tunnel Trogg would be interesting? (Note that Doomhammer would automatically have 2 attack when played, but could get higher attack if other Overload cards are played after).
Sap - can only return an enemy minion with a certain attack or health value (kind of like Shadow Word: Pain and Death).
Also I definitely think Blizzard need to buff old cards that are totally useless/underpowered as well. And please make 'bad buffs' cards!!!! Cards that give -attack/-health!!! Like Battlecry: Give a minion -1 Attack/-2 Health or something like that! Would be sooooo useful!!!
Honestly, Tunnel Trogg is a cool design, but way too OP. So, how about make it: (1 mana minion) When you Overload, gain +1 Attack.
This way he doesn't get up to 5 or whatever attack, he stays down at 2, or 3. His effect makes Shaman decent, the class needed more synergies like this, and everyone's complaining about it, simply because the effect is too EXTREME, not bad, just needs to be tweaked.
I think the only problem with Doomhammer is the fact it can be buffed by one (or two) Rockbiters to equal a 10 or 16 damage burst. Maybe if it wasn't able to be buffed it would be more balanced.
How much more balanced would Tunnel Trogg be if you only gained attack on it when you overloaded, no matter how many crystals you overload for? What do you guys think?
So a mana wyrm for overload? Sounds pretty balanced to me. Too bad Blizzard won't listen.
It would be too underbalanced I guess. There are more spells you are willing to play to buff manawyrm than there are overloads that you would want to play in early game to buff trogg
Would it be that undertuned though? Currently, Shaman utilizes plenty of overload cards at 2/3/4/5 mana, and cards like Thing From Below and Lava Shock eliminate most of the drawback. Overload cards are typically higher quality than many mage spells ran to empower Mana Wyrm, and Zoolock shows that it is possible to run even a vanilla 1/3 successfully.
Shaman already has too many overstated and undercosted cards as it is, and Tunnel Trogg gets buffed by playing them. It's so strong it is a greater threat than a 2 mana 3/4 in Totem Golem, and decks would cut a second copy of a 4 mana 7/7 before they would this 1 drop. My change shaves a little bit of the gratuitous card Tunnel Trogg has, IMO it would still be clearly playable.
Tunnel Trogg's ability should be "Whenever you overload, gain +1 attack."
If sap worked like a shadowstep for the enemy minions it would be interesting. Like, you dont need it dead, you just need it NOT THERE for a turn. But by reducing it's mana cost you're not just straight up nullifying a turn.
Sap shouldn't be a fixed cost, but depending on the cost of the minions you are removing, either based on hp/attack or summoning cost, or maybe a combo of all 3.
Change sap so that it just renews the Wait A Turn To Attack effect. It would feel more like WoW's sap and would remove Rogues easy option for big taunts.
Nice video and with some luck it will reach Blizzards hearts and thoughts! ^^
I personally would like to see more of your discussion based style rather than the actual playing.
Watching and learning from decision making is nice and the hylights are funny etc., but I find the theoretical part more appealing :)
I do agree with your "hate" on the mentioned cards, though you pointed just at the Aggro/Zoo - stuff.
For example I am so sick and tired of the transformations and it seems so broken to me, to have a silence effect, a strong debuff and a deny for revival in one card!
Same goes for cards like Entomb, which is probably the biggest offender in a control matchup. You simply have to decide, which one of your big threats you wanna feed him...
Hmm, perhaps with Sap they could go the forbidden summoning or ritual route. Where you pay however much mana you have left and remove that cost level of minions from the board. So your oppenent has a 4 cost minion, a 3 cost, and then 2 1 cost. With seven mana you could get the 3 and 4 or some other combination like that.
the most broken card for zoolock is the 1/5 Darkshire Councilman for 3 mana. If you or your opponent isn't able to remove or silence this beast, it snowballs out of control pretty fast, especially with the new cards like 2 drop 2/1 murloc, which summons 1/1 taunt, or forbidden ritual or Implosion
The main issue I have with trying to play control decks is their cost. Blizzard seems to think that big minions and control-oriented spells should be epic or legendary in rarity, meaning control decks that need 4-5 legendaries to be competitive won't be played by a vast majority of players. Perhaps creating some more control-oriented cards in the rare/common rarities would coax players to try out more control decks.
Right now, you just can't beat how cheap a zoo lock deck is to craft. It's one of the cheapest decks in the game, and also one of the most powerful. I don't see how this is a decent way to go about things...
Make sap something like; 0 MANA, "The next minion you attack takes no damage and is returned to your opponent's hand." would maybe be a way to deal with the problem. You'd effectively wind up trading that two mana for health.
I think you should do a video on cards that need buffs. It would follow up nicely with the whole idea of not making broken cards to fix classes and instead buffing or reworking old cards.
Some on my list of needed buffs/reworks:
Totemic Might, Ancestral Healing, Shatter, Power Word: Glory... There are a lot of class cards that just kinda suck. Not deck defining at all, or even run.
Agree with the list, though I would also add Call of Nature (Hunter card). When this card is played on turn 8, the game is pretty much over. There shouldn't be any card like that in the game.
That card litterally carried me to rank legend last season as my best rank used to be 5...
You could change Sap, that it takes out a minion for just one turn. For example. The opponent plays Sylvanas. Now Rogue plays Sap on that. For the next round is it out of the game, but the round after that, it comes back without to have to pay the mana costs again.
Sap might be fixed if it was "Return an enemy minion to your opponent's hand for the rest of this turn. It is re-summoned automatically on your opponent's next turn". Like you said, it's really very annoying when you lose an extreme amount of board control/presence by having an extremely important minion being removed by a fucking 2 mana card, then having to reinvest whatever mana you spent to summon it first.
Hi Kripp. I am from Poland and i am sorry if i would make grammar mistake here. In my opinion, Mad scientist is very annoying and you were totally right about how awful is to play 5 mana card for 2 mana but as you said, most of a time people won't even draft a secret of scientist. It is very lucky to even draw it on your opening hand or even later to that card be even usefull. If you would even get that combo right in 2 turn and it will work with the secret it is goin to happen 1 of 12 of your games on arena. In ranked mode scientist was really usefull card in freeze mage or even in face hunter so in my opinion it was good and healthy to the game in competive play. I just disagree that it would be that annoying to add like scientist like card in the future. Thanks if you are reading it right now :)
PS: I will still watch you, films are awesome and keep it goin dude!
In answer to sap balance, make it a combo effect to knock minions back over 5(or whatever) mana, that way it still is usefull vs low minions bit requires more input to use as a high tempo move.
Agree with most of them, will have to add Entomb though. I don't think Sap keeps control decks at bay, I strongly believe Entomb does though.
doomhammer + 2x rockbiter weapon: from turn 5: 9 mana total, deal 28 damage over four turns.
Just an idea to rework sap, maybe have some kind of dynamic mana cost for instance "return an opponents minion to there hand, this card costs half of that minions cost" so an 8 drop would cost 4 mana but sapping a 3 drop would be 1 mana. Of course this gets very confusing with Emperor in the game.
Sap: (2 mana spell) Return an enemy minion with 2 or less attack to your opponents hand, it costs 1 more. OR
Sap: (1 mana spell) Return an enemy minion with 2 or less attack to your opponents hand. OR
Sap: (1 mana spell) Return an enemy minion to your opponents hand, it then costs 2 less. (Probs most OP) OR
Sap: (3 mana spell) Randomly return 2 enemy minions to your opponents hand.
Version 1 kinda helps against aggro, but not as much as version 2.
Version 3 is strictly to do what I believe the card should be designed to do: Remove a big threat right now so that lethal is possible, or valuable/necessary trades can be made.
Version 4 is probably the best design IMO, due to the fact the Hearthstone is mainly RNG, and this version is strictly
RNG.
All versions help to make the control match-up harder, while still thinking of ways to help against aggro.
Some cards might be improved by a mana-cost limiting card text. I feel like a number of cards could be better balanced if the cards were a bit more complex. Blizzard actively avoids complexity to stick to their "anyone can pick up this game and understand it" ideal, but I think this may hinder them quite a bit in the balance area. Sap, for example could read:
"Return an enemy minion to your opponent's hand. This can not target a minion with a mana cost of 6 or more."
Man that rant on Flame Juggler was pure poetic justice!
Maybe Sap could cost 0 + (the mana cost of the target) ?
I don't think Power Overwhelming is a problem. It's like a 1 mana deal 4, except you have to already have enough board presence to lose something. Also doesn't go through taunt. It's like Soulfire, but you have to play the card you discard first.