@@MattLaidlaw ???/ th-cam.com/video/tsZ4nZAVadg/w-d-xo.html This bike looks like it could have been desinged by Erik Buell .. I wonder of HD saved his Blue Prints..? I heard a CO in Grand Rapids MI may start buidling Buells in 2022?? VEry expensive high end models like the last EBR's were ..
My money is on H-D cutting production costs. A hydraulic clutch costs more to produce than a straight cable clutch. So, they lower production costs and raise prices.
The bean counters look at EVERYTHING in an effort to save a buck. I have seen this practice being used for several years now with the Motor Company. One in particular was the cam bearings. INA (caged) vs Torrington (full roller). Thin walled Swing arms were also a money saver for them, ive broken 2 of them.
No more heel shifters, only 1 fob, inferior wheel bearings, failure to recall early twinkie spring tensioners, thin wall swing arm tubing (late evo & early twinkie), leaking master cylinders that destroyed the black paint (early twinkie), cam bearing and transmission failures due to INA style bearing (1988-202?), defective stators, defective hydraulic tappets, poor engine castings 1988-1994. Surely ive missed a few things and sadly i've been stuck into this lifestyle for over 30 years now and have suffered financially from the costs of fixing and upgrading these bikes. Damn shame... My advice to ANYONE who purchases one of these bikes BUY THE EXTENDED WARRANTY AND KEEP EXTENDING IT!
I totally agree with you 100%. When I bought my first hydraulic clutch motorcycle I was having a hard time adjusting to it, but after 6 years of daily commute and two bikes later I now feel that I like it better and don't want to back to cable. Who would know?
I Loved the Hydraulic Clutch on the first bike that I rode with one.The Cable Clutch on My 2000 Wideglide was getting harder to pull in even after being lubricated and adjusting.I Love The Hydraulic Clutch on My current Harley 2015 Streetglide Special.I have rode a few Harleys with easy to pull cable clutches and don't have no problems with them,they are just few and far between.
I know I would get used to it, but I much prefer my cable on my 05 electra glide than the hydraulic on my stepdads 16 CVO street glide. Doesnt feel as easy to modulate, more like an on/off switch.
@@Tom-jw1pe , you are holding the clutch lever in correctly. You should have two or three fingers wrapped around the grip and use your index, middle, or both to actuate the clutch. You will find bat the friction Zone will begin when the lever is slightly away from your fingers on the grip and you will have much better control in all situations. That is the technique that has been taught and utilized ever since the hydraulic clutch was developed 40 years ago. You should never be using all four fingers on the clutch lever, are you giving up control of your motorcycle.
I have an 18 FLHRXS as well and I wasn’t digging that clutch. Hit up softbrake, softbrake.com/reduced-reach-brake-clutch-levers/ This guy reworks factory clutch levers to make the operation more like what you’re used to. Super easy install too.
Matt. Bring me out to your dealership to put on my Ride Like a Pro class. I'd bet you'd change your mind in about 30 minutes about which is better,/easier, hydraulic or cable. At the very least, you would be able to make an informed decision and increase your skills at least 100%. And I'm sure videoing the class for youtube would get a minimum, half million views. How about it folks? Would you like to see that? Just give me a call Matt.
What's up Jerry. You're exactly the type of guy I was referring to when I mentioned the Law enforcement, precision riders. I'd love to have you out. It wouldn't be me trying to prove you wrong or vice versa though because I already agree with you. All I am saying is that I prefer the Hydraulic clutch. But like I said in the video, the cable clutch is better for low speed maneuvers etc.
@@MattLaidlaw ''It wouldn't be me trying to prove you wrong or vice versa though because I already agree with you''. Oh no, I understand exactly what you were saying. I just think it would be great to come out there and put on a class with you and a dozen of your friends/customers, and put it up on youtube. If you're interested, give me a call and we can work out the details. We could both promote it and invite spectators as well.
@@motorman857 I would love that. Now I just need to fit it into my schedule hah! That's the hard part. I appreciate your content and contributions to the riding community. Much respect my friend.
They charge MORE for powder coated parts too.. everywhere else in the universe chrome costs more. But in the end Harley exists to make money. They're not a charity.
@@candlstudios well because everything is so overpriced they have completely failed at attracting the younger generation. Everything they have been doing has failed, the base model bikes like softail standard or electra glide only come in black lacking all imagination... the list of issues of cost and and lack of features compared to competition is actually astonishing
@@AttackOfTheZ0mbies I think he’s referring to how Harley charges $1,800 more for blacked out trim over the standard chrome. That’s MSRP I can’t speak to what dealers may or may not be charging.
The friction zone on my 2014 FLHTCU is exactly why I purchased and installed the Soft Brake, front brake and clutch levers. HUGE improvement. Friction zone is much closer to the grip and much easier to control. Front brake is easy to apply with 2 fingers as I ride, as well. Best money I have spent on my bike. No messing with the hydraulics like when you replace the slave cylinder either.
A great analysis Matt, you really nailed it. Really good to hear a thorough and totally unbiased even handed assessment. I have ridden both cable and hydraulic clutch and have no problem with either. My preference is the hydraulic clutch for the reasons you covered in great clarity. I believe the main reason Harley made this change is down to cost, the bean counters made this call. A great video Matt, keep em coming 👍
@@JL-wf2wp I thought the V-rod engine was nice, but the rest of the bike wasn’t my style. I am fairly impressed with the new Revolution Max engine also, but, again, it isn’t yet in a platform I am all that interested in. I am mainly a long distance, two-up tourer and thus look for luxury touring bikes like my current LT, the Gold Wing (well, it used to be a luxury touring bike - not so much since 2018), etc., but I like modern technology also. If Harley will just build a luxury touring bike around the Revolution Max and have a bike as competent as the engine appears to be, I may become a first-time Harley owner.
@@LTVoyager im in love with the vrod engine. Im not sure about the new revolution, it looks like a chinese copy of the previous porsche made revolution 🤔 maybe im wrong. And the vrod style isnt mine either.. but i can cope with the night rod special model with a different handlebar and further feet controls. The fat tire doesnt look bad at all 😎 you should give the vrod a try you wont regret it
@@JL-wf2wp I like most motorcycles so I am sure it would be fun. However, just not practical for two-up riding any distance. I have my K1200LT for that and a KLR650 for short, fun rides locally. I would like to trade in the LT as it is 14 years old and has nearly 100,000 miles, but I have test ridden nearly all of the current full dress touring bikes and none are any better than the LT and most are worse for a lot more money. I keep hoping though for a viable replacement to come along. If not, I will probably get an R1250RT as it is about the closest to the LT without being a maintenance nightmare like the K1600s. I really wanted to like the new Wing, but after a 100 mile test ride, it just has too many shortcomings, mainly luggage capacity and fuel capacity. The seats are terrible also, but that is easily addressed. The other two are a lot more expensive to fix. 😁. Maybe Harley will come through with a modern touring bike built around the Revolution Max. One can hope, right?
Glad they are going back to cable, I prefer the friction zone adjustability, hate having to let the clutch out 80% to get to friction zone. Also like the more mechanical feel.
Matt - good discussion. Appreciate your honest overview. Frankly, Harley needs to add more mechanical, technical and value to these touring bikes. This is a move back, in my view.
@@allanmccullough8550 Had a 21 Wing. Yes, it had tons of tech, great hydraulic clutch, phenomenal Nissin brakes, and power overwhelmingly greater than HD. However I now ride a Road Glide Limited for a single reason…comfort. I’m a combat vet with degenerated knees and feet. The Goldwing ONLY has mid mount foot pegs, due to engine architecture there are no options for forward controls. I MISS my hydraulic clutch on that bike as the cable clutch on my Glide is STIFF and after a ride in the rain squeaks like a duck each time I pull it. I had tons of friction zone on my wing and could feel it well through the lever, the cable clutch on my Glide feels very numb and never quite engages in the same exact spot even after adjustment. I loved my wing, but my god did I hurt riding it after 30-45 minutes and begged for a gas stop every hour, which is NOT what a Goldwing should do to someone.
I bought an Oberon lever because of the friction zone. It's been awesome for low speed and slower maneuvers because it's brought it closer to the bars. Juice clutch for me too!
I ride a 2020 Low Rider. When I test rode a Road Glide last year I didn't even notice that much of a difference in feel between hydraulic and cable. I will say that my cable clutch seems to walk out of adjustment every 2,000 miles but they made the new clutches so easy to adjust it's never bothered me. I'm looking to trade in on a bagger this spring and I'm completely indifferent about this. If I find a nice leftover '20, awesome, but I really got my eye on a Snake Venom Roadglide. Awesome video as always Matt. Living vicariously through your channel again with 3 feet of snow outside my door.
I have a 2020 RK standard, wife has a 2018 heritage. I can ride both and be fine, however I feel like the cable is a little easier on the release. Probably just me I do have some wrist issues. For you guys who want a shorter and easier pull ( IMO ) on hydraulic, softbrake.com. Night and day difference for me, swapped out my clutch and front brake lever. There is a inch less travel on both, yes the clutch fully disengages. I do feel hydraulic has a smoother actuation on pull and release. I have no problems doing low speed maneuvers with hydraulic, even easier with the softbrake clutch lever. Sorry Matt, I’m not sponsored by softbrake......lol just helped me a-lot. Less hand fatigue from a safety perspective.
I've been riding for many years and my 2018 Street Glide is the first hyd clutch I ever had. At first I didn't like the lever travel distance but loved the ease of the smoothness of operation. I soon discovered that an aftermarket replacement lever was available and got one. That corrected the lever travel distance to the immediate start of the friction zone at release of the lever and now it's perfect.
I agree the real reason that I heard is because of the oil transfer between the primary in the oil of the transmission because the shaft that goes in between leaks when it hits temperatures
I like the hydraulic, the one thing I can’t stand is other dealers lying to your face, matt laidlaw tells it how it is, 99% of these other dealerships do not. I notice they try to BS you until you open your mouth and show them how much you actually know, sometimes it’s more then them honestly. At the end I think Harley is going backwards... thanks for being honest matt
Sounds to me, as though Matt lives in a state of denial. If he wants the hydraulic thing to be best, his mind simply refuses to accept any other possibility. Hmmm, maybe a Shrink could make sense of that, but I can't.
I have never had a motorcycle with a hydraulic clutch, so I really do not have an opinion on the use of a hydraulic clutch. I can say that I am used to using a cable clutch, so I will have to test ride a vehicle with a hydraulic clutch to make a comparison. Good information Matt, you make me want to try another motorcycle to see what the difference really feels like.
I see your view points but i do disagree. The fact that touring motorcycles are 30 or more easily. Yet don’t offer hydraulic clutch is ridiculous. It sounds like you’re trying to convince yourself this is a good thing. It’s not. It’s so out of touch.
I really like Matt, but yeah at times he is trying to convince himself that something that HD has done was a good thing. Honestly he has to, he's married to the Motor CO with the decades and family history with the dealership.
@@Acmegamer idk Matt is usually pretty honest with what he likes and dislikes about the Motor Co. he’s never been afraid to criticize them. That’s why I like his channel
Riden both... made by various motorcycle manufactures KTM (dirt & Street), Ducati, Harley, Yamaha ETC. Never really cared or noticed. As long as the engine excites me, I tend to only focus on the enjoyment of riding!!!
Thank you so much for your content man the honesty and the non-bias is really appreciated. I prefer the hydraulic clutch but I’m like you I wouldn’t make any major financial changes if I had one.
I had 2000 Wideglide before I traded it for The 2015 Street Glide Special that I have now.I like the hydraulic clutch alot better than the cable clutch that was on my Wideglide.That cable clutch used to make my wrist hurt on a 200 mile ride to the mountains and back when you did alot of shifting.My wrist never hurts with the hydraulic clutch on my Streetglide.I did have the cable lubed and adjusted but it was always harder to pull in than the hydraulic clutch.A Friend of mine has a Crossbones with a cable clutch and I can't believe how easy that clutch is to pull in.Just as easy as a hydraulic clutch.When I've rode Demo CVO ULTRAS or just about any kind of CVO BIKE I noticed a tingling feeling in my fingers when putting the bike in first gear.This is Just on The CVO BIKES not anything else with a hydraulic clutch.
Interesting discussion. I have 4 bikes, two with hydraulic clutches and two with cable clutches, one of which is my Harley. The Harleys cable clutch on the M8 is the easiest to pull out of all of them, the next is my Ducati 1200 Multi which is close and it’s hydraulic. The worst is my other Ducati with a hydraulic clutch where you need gorilla forearms. Do I have a preference on feel, not really. But here is the main thing with clutches, and riding a touring bike in Australia. You can fix a cable clutch on the side of the road, and I’d always take a spare cable with me. I’ve fixed a young blokes clutch out in the middle of the outback because he had brought a spare with him (though he couldn’t fix it himself). With a hydraulic clutch, it’s game over, trip over and probably a very expensive tow up which if you were unlucky could easily be up to 1500 miles to the nearest HD dealer, who probably hasn’t got the parts on the shelf and has to order them from Sydney, if you’re lucky. Worst case is there are none in the country and it’s a six weeks wait. Been there and done that on another manufacturers bike. So for me, my preference is cable simply because if it all goes pear shaped, I can get myself out of trouble (or you can find someone who can).
First off, great video, and I value your opinion. Thank you! I now love my hydraulic clutch on my Ultra AFTER replacing it with a Soft Brake lever which brought it an inch closer to the grip. I have coppel tunnel and holding it halfway out in traffic killed me, but since the reduced pull lever, I'm loving it!
Thank you very much for the information pros and cons. I am new to Harley Davidson and taking my lessons on a cable clutch and I bought ultra classic with hydraulic. You have described very well what the differences are. I will have to re- learn my friction zone.
Like the hydraulic, harley went back to the cable due to the continued primary transfer as there plastic tube was not the fix. Ask me how I know. Matt love your channel and your store, I’m a commuter from NY.
I have heard the same plastic tube non-fix issue but I haven't personally had any issues with my old 2016 Ultra Limited or my new 2020 Road Glide Limited. I believe the issues were with the 2017-2019 Milwaukee 8's.
@@williamohrt554 There's a problem with the 17-19 M8"s? My 17 Ultra Classic has ran almost flawlessly for the 27,000 miles I've had it. One sensor that took 5 minutes to fix, thats been it. I'm knocking on wood because I keep hearing about M8 issues, I just haven't seen them... luckily.
Did you try the new clutch rod from Macomb? I just ordered one, not sure if I’m having the issue but it’s like $75 shipped and worth the peace of mind.
Spot on with the pros and cons of each. I think a lot of riders who complain that a hydraulic clutch is a harder pull (it isn't), can't handle spending any time in the friction zone with the lever so far away from the hand grip. I like that my hydraulic clutch friction zone has been consistent for 6 years and needs no adjusting. I don't like that a cable stretches and needs regular adjustment. But I wouldn't let a cable clutch keep me from buying a new bike - every bike I rode before my '15 was a cable.
I’m actually a little jealous of the cable clutch cause it’s so much simpler to do bars with the cable clutch especially if they used that new connector system they used on the softails
I'm a cable clutch person 100%.. I've never seen a race bike or performance bike with a hydraulic clutch. You can fine tune a cable clutch as well as its easier to work on them. Could you imagine being on the road and dropping your bike breaking the hydraulic line, a cable you could just use vise grips or plyers to pull the cable and get home.
After trying hydraulic clutch at my first HD demo event 3 years ago, I knew I wouldn’t replace my 05’ cable clutch ride for a new Harley. I don’t understand this whining over easy clutches- never had an issue with squeezing a clutch under any circumstance and hydraulic clutch feel sucks! I adjust my own clutch and place the zone exactly where I want it.
If you had a 2000 Harley Wideglide You would really appreciate a Hydraulic clutch.I had that cable clutch lubricated and adjusted and it would still make your wrist hurt after going on a 200 mile ride with alot of shifting.Never a problem with The Hydraulic Clutch on My 2015 Streetglide Special.
I've had two HDs with the hydraulic clutch and I don't have any complaints. I personally feel that the switch to a cable clutch was a cost cutting initiative by HD. Just another indicator that the Motor Company is in financial difficulty. I worry about their long term viability. It's an iconic American company, and I do hope they do better in years to come as they break into the electric, adventure and sport bike markets. Love your videos Matt. Keep 'em coming!
I personally prefer the hydraulic clutch. I have studied the pros and cons of both and agree with you Matt, it's not worth it to change to hydraulic. I will be purchasing a Harley in the near future. Most likely used, to get the hydraulic clutch, but it won't be a factor is the numbers and options are right on a new Harley. Keep up the great work here , Matt, showing off those GREAT new bikes. And Thank you Matt , for going over your thoughts on Harley and the company's thoughts as to changes being made along the way. Love the channel and hope to come by your shop and meet you in person soon.
Could you do a video showing how much it cost to change from cable to hydraulic and vice versa? When I had me fxbb a big part of getting back onto a touring bike was the hydraulic clutch.
The hydraulic clutch took a little getting used to when I got my 2019 FLHTK, but after a little time with it I really liked it better and was really happy HD went that style of clutch. I love the consistency of the friction zone. I'm not sure I'd ever want to revert to the cable.
Anything HD does has 50% of it's "fanbase" bitching about it. They are in a lose/lose situation. If they stay the same they "aren't innovating enough" if they step outside the box they're "alienating their customer base". This is no different, it's the age of the internet, too many would rather complain than ride. Do I like the new cable clutch? Who knows I haven't ridden it, and my guess is neither have a lot of the keyboard warriors that think it's the worst thing HD has done in 100 years.
I have not test rode a bike with a hydraulic clutch. I practice slow speed maneuvers and I think my hand would tire faster having the friction zone engage at the end of travel. It all depends on your stature (Matt is blessed in that Dept.) 😊 and how you ride. Matt you explained all the pros and cons to a T. Thank you!
Great video Matt. I had a 09 deluxe and now have a 2020 RGS and can tell you that i didn’t missed a beat when I changed clutches. You can also get adjustable levers if you think the pull is too far. Ride safe.
I have had bikes with a hydraulic clutch for years and they work just fine for me. The 2 Harley Davidson's I have both have one and I'm good with them. 👍 I wouldn't have a problem with the cable clutch on the new one if I was looking at a new Harley Davidson...
Hydraulic clutch is better that’s why other manufacturers have been doing it for years. I agree with you Matt on the reasoning, I think the bottom line its less cost for Harley-Davidson. Just think what cost it saved by switching & increasing the 2021 bikes price from 100 to 400. They are most likely making at least $800 to $1000 on each bike.
So should Harley put DOHC motors in every bike, since other manufacturers have been doing that for years it must be better right? I’m not saying hydraulic clutches aren’t better (although my least favorite clutch out of all the bikes I own is my MV Agusta’s clutch which is hydraulic) but what I am saying is that just because most other manufacturers do something doesn’t mean it’s inherently better. In fact most other manufacturers have much worse paint than Harley, and have much worse paint for years! Should Harley switch to much worse paint since it’s clearly better!?
I've never ridden a Harley hydraulic actuated clutch bike myself, but I can say I owned a 2005 dyna super glide(among others previously) and during the time of ownership I suffered a neck injury that caused some nerve damage to my arms and hands resulting in some loss of strength and control along with some fatigue, pulling the clutch in and out multiple times during heavy traffic I would sometimes have to pull over to give my hands a break and I ended up selling the bike because I felt my riding days were coming to an end but after a short time of completely missing riding I decided to buy another bike with the thought of replacing the cable clutch with an aftermarket hydraulic clutch to help myself during those traffic situations, I purchased a 2009 road king and I was shocked at how easy the clutch pull was on the road king compared to my old super glide, I don't know what Harley did in those four years of production to ease the pull of the clutch but hats off to them, I decided not to replace the clutch cable for the hydraulic after all.
It's hydraulic for me more precise and no adjustments to make and it's very smooth dependable feel does it for me...I've been riding for forty five yrs.and no going back to cable...unless I have to✌🏿☝🏿
Thank you Matt, always love watching your content. I will take the cable clutch 100% of the time. I definitely prefer the “mechanical feel” of any motorcycle I am riding which leads to better control and safety in my riding. Having total command of how and when I want to engage the power to my rear wheel is one of the keys to having command over my bike. I’m very glad Harley-Davidson came back to the cable clutch regardless of motive. Now, I wish they would bring back some of the beautiful iconic classic models they dropped! After all, that’s why I buy and own 3 Harley-Davidson’s in the first place! Take care Matt, have a great summer!
thanks for giving us something informative without any bias about selling... hd have had some problems with hyd clutch .. my 2019 lowrider from new pulled away so easy out of my garden i could not believe how smooth it was,,, no snatch no judder even when stood for a long time,,, easily the best i have owned..
I’ve had two H-D cycles with hyd clutch. Love them.. I always thought that was a major improvement. I haven’t noticed all the negative things he spoke about. I prob will now🙂 Either way, would not trade hyd for cable
I’m currently riding an ‘18 RoadGlide Special and love the clutch . I have owned bikes with both . Personally I like the hydraulic but not enough to make a stink over . One thing that can happen with the cable , the cable breaks . I’ve seen it happen on a Police motor . Thanks Matt , another great video
Your embarrass over nonsense. The hydraulic clutch system will ruin your wrist depending how big your hands are. People were actually trying to add the extra damper they put into the trike because of the wear and tear it cause on one’s wrist.
@@MattLaidlaw you have to ride both systems, and consider what kind of riding you normally involved in. In Nyc metro area, rush hour traffic will kill your wrist if you’re using that hydraulic clutch. I did it everyday. Same with those slow turns. Matt your like 6’6” so you’re not gonna have the issues of getting your fingers around the lever while turning. I’m 5’8” and it’s gotten so bad, it would have to jump into the car to recover.
@@tax905972 My 2017 Limited had a hydraulic clutch, my 2020 has a hydraulic clutch! I’ve owned many Japanese bikes since I was 16 years old all hydraulic clutch! My hands 🙌 work just fine thank you! Nonsense!
Great video. In his own diplomatic way Matt explained the hydraulic clutch was too complex for some Harley riders. Cable is good for those guys who can't hit the 'G spot'!
I agree, I find the hydraulic smooth and consistent. I do have large hands so I never struggle with gray (friction) zone for slow speed cone work. I like that it does not require the extra maintenance. Great video Matt thank you.
Matt, I appreciate you diving into this touchy subject and you've done a excellent job explaining the difference and possibly the reasons Harley reverted backwards to a cable clutch. I think after everything was said and done it was definitely a money saving action on Harleys part pure and simple. They figured it wasn't a big enough advantage to a rider for the money it cost to produce it. In my opinion they have messed up,,,again. I absolutely love my 2019 CVO Road Glide hydraulic clutch! I loved everyone I've had and its too important of a feature to give up.( I see that Harley even eliminated the Sirius radio module). Let's hope they don't go back to cable operated brakes next because the circus donut riders prefer it!!!
I think H.D. realize they can't increase the prices of their over priced bikes ,BUT THEY HAVE TO STOP TAKING THINGS OFF AND CHEAPING OUT!!!!!! 2019 CVO street glide has coloured stitched seat, front lower fairing with speakers,THIS WAS REMOVED FOR 2020 then 2021back to a cable clutch.whats next? its incredible 2017 to 2019 M8 has a oil pump that is poorly designed HD tell's you to get the bad pumps replaced $$$$$$ wow!!!!
I remember when the Pan Head had a mechanical rear brake rod. Some aftermarket company will make an adjustable hydraulic clutch lever and make everybody happy.
I’m used to the hydraulic clutch for number of years and I liked very much. I used to feel the difference when I ride my friend’s softail. I recently bought a 2021 Street Glide. It’s not a big deal when it comes to a cable clutch, except the fact that the new clutch will require adjustment on frequent biases as you mentioned in the video. I have to live with that I guess. Thanks Matt for the great information you post in your channel. Your channel really worth subscribe and likes.
I had a 2000 Wideglide and even after having the cable clutch lubricated and adjusted it was still harder to pull in than the Hydraulic Clutch on My 2015 Streetglide Special.I Love the Hydraulic Clutch on this Bike.Its perfect for me.I have rode a few Harleys with easy to pull cable clutches and I'm fine with them.They are just few and far between.
I learned to ride Harleys with cable clutch and after a long ride arriving home with lots of traffic or when there was an accident on the road it was a true pain in the ass having to pull that clutch too many times, I prefer hydraulic all the way (also very precise and not having to adjust it) as an experienced rider and as a new one too, specially for new/young riders with less strength in the left forearm, I don't know if the new cable clutches are as hard to pull as old Harleys but those were hard to pull
Ride Like a Pro is an amazing class. I took it from Motor Officer Jersey here in Colorado last year and practice slow speed maneuvering almost every time I ride. It's like trials riding for street bikes. The slow, lock your handlebar and scrape your floorboard turn is very difficult for me and didn't realize until this post that it could be a result of having a hydraulic clutch. My next bike will probably be a Road Glide and was a bit ticked off about the cable clutch until now. I really appreciate this post and Jerry's input.
My friend built a hot rod deuce in 2005 and installed a hydraulic clutch he still has the bike he still has the clutch I traded my 2010 road glide custom with a cable clutch to a 2020 road glide S hydraulic clutch at 64 years old my hands are starting to look like Krampus so I like the hydraulic clutch especially with a passenger my wife has a 2017 road glide S she’s a hairdresser and has worked with her hands her whole life and that’s the reason for her having a hydraulic clutch which she loves. we’re talking about clutches and perceptions yet they take the vent doors off the faring and leave a hole you get one key fob the heel shifter is an up charge so I understand those that feel their cheapening the brand.They do so much right that’s it’s a shame to see it go backwards just my two cents thank you Matt as usual
Thanks for a very comprehensive presentation on the pros and cons of hydraulic vs cable clutch systems. Very much appreciated your comments on those of us with shorter finger reaches. I have been attempting a hydraulic conversions for my 883 custom and various lever systems to lighten the clutch pressure. I think I will settle finally on the cable with a few mechanical combination upgrades. Much thanks, Lloyd
I can’t believe you didn’t touch on the issue of Transmission fluid transfer. I couldn’t wait to buy my first hydraulic clutch bike in 2017. A Road King Special. I didn’t even test ride it I was so stoked. Then I picked it up. What a huge disappointment. The clutch lever effort was noticeably higher than my 7 previous cable Clutch harleys. It was my first comment to the salesman. “I thought this clutch was supposed to be reduced effort?” It’s not and it has been proven with a simple scale test on a few videos. I thought whatever, I’ll learn to live with it. Then around 20000 miles in, the transmission fluid started to transfer and when I brought it to my dealers attention, he says “that’s impossible” 😳 Long story short this was the start of a long frustrating year and around another 20000 miles of HD giving me the run around on fixing the problem. After 3 attempts at a repair did nothing, they eventually installed the vent in the primary and solved the issue. (Something I suggested on day one and was laughed at by HD) I asked for a fair trade in value on a new bike while this was going on. Nope. I asked for an extended warranty on my transmission because it had been run low on fluid for so many miles. Nope. This whole issue has put such a bad taste in my mouth that I bought a twin cam touring bike again a few weeks ago and am selling the road king and will never purchase another bran new HD again. They do not give a rats ass about their customers and the issues they face with their new machines. This was my third new bike from this dealer and definitely my last. I have no doubt that one of the reasons they went back to a cable clutch is the transfer issue suffered by a large percentage of bikes that they said for over a year wasn’t even happening and now this video not even mentioning it. What a joke.
We honestly don’t see transfer issues very often at our shop, but we do all three compartments (motor, primary, and transmission) every five thousand miles which is much sooner than HD recommends. We aren’t trying to hide anything, hell we did a whole video on Andrew blowing up his stage 3 m8! If we did 10000 for the primary and 20000 for the trans as recommended we might see it more and think of it as a big issue but with are more aggressive service intervals we really don’t notice transfer in the vast majority of bikes
I wish you would have touched on the warranty issues and the oil transfer to the primary from the hydraulic clutch. I have only used a cable clutch so I can't compare both.
Think HD is going further in cost cutting mindset. From my2020 no more heel shifter and only one key fob, 21 no more hydraulic clutch. Guessing what would they remove next year??Maybe the seat??or the wheels??Scandalous
I agree with your honest accessment. I have the hydraulic clutch now. It took a small amount of time to adjust to it, but it wasn't a big deal. I prefer it now and I'm a fairly new rider.
Consumers : "Bikes are too expensive, no full led is not acceptable" Harley : "We heard you, here is the cable clutch ... but the bike will be a little more expensive of course"
They are digging their own grave as they are just interested is getting money without bothering about anything. For the amount the bikes cost there is no excuse to not give the basic necessities on the bike.
See the 2022 Indians? I are much better equipped than the Softails they are going after. I hope it makes Harley step up it's game. I'm a Softail guy, so don't really don't concern myself with the touring models. Harley cheaper out instead of putting on better hydraulic clutch
I would have loved to see the Harley Davison improve on the hydraulic clutch instead of go backwards. After all isn’t that what there are trying to do nowadays? Move forward and appeal to more riders. Bad move damn, Penny pinchers.
Great video by the way. I have a 2019 Electra Gide Standard. My first Harley Davidson. And I love it. I am 62, and I have really struggled with the hydraulic clutch. I have been riding motorcycles since I was a kid, I have a lot of experience on a motorcycle. I was really used to a wider friction zone. I had a hard time with the short drop out with the hydraulic clutch. For me, it was a safety issue. To make a long story short, I had my HD converted back to a cable clutch. I am so happy with the results. It was pricey but well worth it for me. I know every rider has their own personal preferences, I feel more confident on my HD now. Rob
Great video Matt. I have both clutch types. 2011 FLHTK and 2019 FLHT. I like cable better. It's all about where the friction zone is, cable feels better to me.
I have four bikes of various makes and I really couldn't care either way. My Goldwing has a hydraulic and my Heritage has a cable. I just get acclimated to whichever one I am riding. I do like the simplicity of the cable clutch with no fluid to worry about, but either one doesn't sway my decision on buying a bike.
Matt, last year Purchased my first Harley with a hydraulic clutch, a 2017 FatBoy S. My experience was: 1. that it was not less effort but more, 2. friction zone was way smaller than a cable clutch, the lever would be half way through its travel before the clutch would start to disengage, making the friction zone minuscule. for me this was a deal breaker as use of the friction zone is how I handle a large bike with lots of torque through slow, tight maneuvers (think parking lots, traffic jams, and my daily commute to work). I loved the bike and that 110ci, but I traded it in because the handling just didn't match my riding style. That fat front tire was great on the highway, but I just prefer the handling of a skinnier front tire everywhere else. To really get the bike to fit my riding style I would had to replace the heavy wheels, and that awful clutch, so I just got something else.
My 17 fat bob had an easier clutch to pull than my 2020 road king does. I also had to replace my levers on the road king to bring the friction zone closer to the bars to make slow speed maneuvering a lot easier. I hated the hydraulic clutch until I changed the levers.
Same exact here. I had to put down 350$ plus installation to get adjustable levers because of how the hydraulic clutch has such a long distance to friction zone. Such a long distance stock it's downright dangerous. My cable 1999 Fatboy never had issues like that and was fine stock.
I have a 93 FLHS that I bought early this year. My clutch was grabbing right off the bars. I brought it in for service and Digger adjusted it. Now, its at the other extreme, but it was good to hear that it should grab 85% out which is probably on the money.
I’m not sure if Harley makes a different lever but it is definitely possible. I have a Goldwing with a hydraulic clutch and it has an adjustable lever.
I had a hydraulic clutch on my Victory Jackpot and hated it. There was zero feel. You weren't in the friction zone until the lever was almost fully released which made low speed manouvering much more difficult. When I was shopping for my Harley Davidson back in 2018 I was determined to get a model with a cable clutch. That's how my SportGlide came and I'm very happy with it.
I've been riding for 16 years always had a cable clutch until March when I bought a brand new 2020 road glide eagle eye and ill admit the hydraulic clutch did take a little getting used to but I love it
You never had to adjust the hydraulic clutch. That's the main thing I like about mine. It's always the same.. no adjusting.. never have trouble finding neutral. A clutch cable isn't the end of the world but it is a step back in technology and it should not be sold as an "upgrade". It's not am upgrade.
The first hydraulic clutch I used I hated it because of it engaging so far out. Then I got used to it and now I like it because you never have to get it adjusted. Also noticed when the bikes cold the clutch engages closer to the grip, when the bike warms up it engages farther out.
I bought a 2021 SGS with the cable clutch and ended up getting Tennis Elbow and had cortisone shots. I installed the Müller Power Clutch and made a world of difference. I highly recommend it.
Me and ODB go Old School all the way! - Anyway, I never used a hydraulic clutch, but Ive heard a lot of folks like it.
Going to pin this comment because of the ODB reference. Haha you made my day.
@@MattLaidlaw ???/
th-cam.com/video/tsZ4nZAVadg/w-d-xo.html
This bike looks like it could have been desinged by Erik Buell .. I wonder of HD saved his Blue Prints..?
I heard a CO in Grand Rapids MI may start buidling Buells in 2022?? VEry expensive high end models like the last EBR's were ..
Yup....if you want to whine about a tired hand....kick the thing into neutral during a long stop....
Anyone that likes it has hands like a gorilla. Clutch engages just as I run out of fingers. Literally holding it with the first knuckle.
@@rc3291 I love cable clutches. I wouldn't consider myself particularly strong.
My money is on H-D cutting production costs. A hydraulic clutch costs more to produce than a straight cable clutch. So, they lower production costs and raise prices.
And insure techs future work replacing a cable
The bean counters look at EVERYTHING in an effort to save a buck. I have seen this practice being used for several years now with the Motor Company. One in particular was the cam bearings. INA (caged) vs Torrington (full roller). Thin walled Swing arms were also a money saver for them, ive broken 2 of them.
I agree, this is about nothing but increasing margins.
Yes, to save money on the cost of the bike.
No more heel shifters, only 1 fob, inferior wheel bearings, failure to recall early twinkie spring tensioners, thin wall swing arm tubing (late evo & early twinkie), leaking master cylinders that destroyed the black paint (early twinkie), cam bearing and transmission failures due to INA style bearing (1988-202?), defective stators, defective hydraulic tappets, poor engine castings 1988-1994. Surely ive missed a few things and sadly i've been stuck into this lifestyle for over 30 years now and have suffered financially from the costs of fixing and upgrading these bikes. Damn shame...
My advice to ANYONE who purchases one of these bikes BUY THE EXTENDED WARRANTY AND KEEP EXTENDING IT!
When will HD go back to kick start?😀
Next year 😉🤠
Yes... I miss kick starters. Harley needs that nostalgia back.
bring back the pedal start system. Now THAT's old school
We laugh but..... don't give them any ideas!
I've had a hip replacement.
I don't think I'll be kicking over any 117cu in engine, compression releases or not.🤠
I totally agree with you 100%. When I bought my first hydraulic clutch motorcycle I was having a hard time adjusting to it, but after 6 years of daily commute and two bikes later I now feel that I like it better and don't want to back to cable. Who would know?
I Loved the Hydraulic Clutch on the first bike that I rode with one.The Cable Clutch on My 2000 Wideglide was getting harder to pull in even after being lubricated and adjusting.I Love The Hydraulic Clutch on My current Harley 2015 Streetglide Special.I have rode a few Harleys with easy to pull cable clutches and don't have no problems with them,they are just few and far between.
I really like my hydraulic clutch on my 18 road king special it’s 100% consistent and very smooth for me and no adjustments
I keep stalling on first gear take off.. did it take a while to get use 2?
I know I would get used to it, but I much prefer my cable on my 05 electra glide than the hydraulic on my stepdads 16 CVO street glide. Doesnt feel as easy to modulate, more like an on/off switch.
@@Tom-jw1pe , you are holding the clutch lever in correctly. You should have two or three fingers wrapped around the grip and use your index, middle, or both to actuate the clutch. You will find bat the friction Zone will begin when the lever is slightly away from your fingers on the grip and you will have much better control in all situations. That is the technique that has been taught and utilized ever since the hydraulic clutch was developed 40 years ago. You should never be using all four fingers on the clutch lever, are you giving up control of your motorcycle.
I have an 18 FLHRXS as well and I wasn’t digging that clutch. Hit up softbrake, softbrake.com/reduced-reach-brake-clutch-levers/
This guy reworks factory clutch levers to make the operation more like what you’re used to. Super easy install too.
@@robr8207 are they adjustable?
Matt. Bring me out to your dealership to put on my Ride Like a Pro class. I'd bet you'd change your mind in about 30 minutes about which is better,/easier, hydraulic or cable. At the very least, you would be able to make an informed decision and increase your skills at least 100%. And I'm sure videoing the class for youtube would get a minimum, half million views. How about it folks? Would you like to see that?
Just give me a call Matt.
@@Anton_G_604 How much ya talkin Anton?
What's up Jerry. You're exactly the type of guy I was referring to when I mentioned the Law enforcement, precision riders. I'd love to have you out. It wouldn't be me trying to prove you wrong or vice versa though because I already agree with you. All I am saying is that I prefer the Hydraulic clutch. But like I said in the video, the cable clutch is better for low speed maneuvers etc.
@@MattLaidlaw ''It wouldn't be me trying to prove you wrong or vice versa though because I already agree with you''. Oh no, I understand exactly what you were saying. I just think it would be great to come out there and put on a class with you and a dozen of your friends/customers, and put it up on youtube. If you're interested, give me a call and we can work out the details. We could both promote it and invite spectators as well.
@@motorman857 I would love that. Now I just need to fit it into my schedule hah! That's the hard part. I appreciate your content and contributions to the riding community. Much respect my friend.
Invite Million Dollar Bogan!
put 80k on my 2017 limited in 4 years ,with the hydraulic no problems loved it, no spending time to adjust.
55k on 2017 street. Love not adjusting my clutch.
So we've reduced costs...for us, you need to pay more. This company makes it really hard to like them sometimes.
You realize that if H-D paid more for parts and we paid less for the bikes they would be out of business, right?
They charge MORE for powder coated parts too.. everywhere else in the universe chrome costs more.
But in the end Harley exists to make money. They're not a charity.
@@candlstudios well because everything is so overpriced they have completely failed at attracting the younger generation. Everything they have been doing has failed, the base model bikes like softail standard or electra glide only come in black lacking all imagination... the list of issues of cost and and lack of features compared to competition is actually astonishing
H.D. is run by bean counter douche bags. I`m back to Evo`s. My springer works good with an Evo.
@@AttackOfTheZ0mbies I think he’s referring to how Harley charges $1,800 more for blacked out trim over the standard chrome. That’s MSRP I can’t speak to what dealers may or may not be charging.
The friction zone on my 2014 FLHTCU is exactly why I purchased and installed the Soft Brake, front brake and clutch levers. HUGE improvement. Friction zone is much closer to the grip and much easier to control. Front brake is easy to apply with 2 fingers as I ride, as well. Best money I have spent on my bike. No messing with the hydraulics like when you replace the slave cylinder either.
You were really spot on listing pro’s/con’s. I like them both. There isn’t so much difference to not be happy with whatever the bike comes with
I like the hydraulic clutch for the exact reason you said. Consistant feel & smoothness.
Hydraulic clutch is amazing, the feeling and reliability is a big difference. Compared between my first bike (48) against my current VROD
A great analysis Matt, you really nailed it. Really good to hear a thorough and totally unbiased even handed assessment.
I have ridden both cable and hydraulic clutch and have no problem with either.
My preference is the hydraulic clutch for the reasons you covered in great clarity.
I believe the main reason Harley made this change is down to cost, the bean counters made this call.
A great video Matt, keep em coming 👍
No matter what you say you have a Jack Russell that makes you 100% right always. Just like me. I have 2 of those terrorist.
I like the cable clutch, I can put the friction zone where I want it.
My BMW has adjustable clutch and brake levers so I can put the friction zone where I want it also. And adjust for different sized hands.
@@LTVoyager lmao dont make him look like a caveman 😂 bmw is like that song "anything you can do, i can do better" but i still love harley (v-rod) 😉😎
@@JL-wf2wp I thought the V-rod engine was nice, but the rest of the bike wasn’t my style. I am fairly impressed with the new Revolution Max engine also, but, again, it isn’t yet in a platform I am all that interested in. I am mainly a long distance, two-up tourer and thus look for luxury touring bikes like my current LT, the Gold Wing (well, it used to be a luxury touring bike - not so much since 2018), etc., but I like modern technology also. If Harley will just build a luxury touring bike around the Revolution Max and have a bike as competent as the engine appears to be, I may become a first-time Harley owner.
@@LTVoyager im in love with the vrod engine. Im not sure about the new revolution, it looks like a chinese copy of the previous porsche made revolution 🤔 maybe im wrong. And the vrod style isnt mine either.. but i can cope with the night rod special model with a different handlebar and further feet controls. The fat tire doesnt look bad at all 😎 you should give the vrod a try you wont regret it
@@JL-wf2wp I like most motorcycles so I am sure it would be fun. However, just not practical for two-up riding any distance. I have my K1200LT for that and a KLR650 for short, fun rides locally. I would like to trade in the LT as it is 14 years old and has nearly 100,000 miles, but I have test ridden nearly all of the current full dress touring bikes and none are any better than the LT and most are worse for a lot more money. I keep hoping though for a viable replacement to come along. If not, I will probably get an R1250RT as it is about the closest to the LT without being a maintenance nightmare like the K1600s. I really wanted to like the new Wing, but after a 100 mile test ride, it just has too many shortcomings, mainly luggage capacity and fuel capacity. The seats are terrible also, but that is easily addressed. The other two are a lot more expensive to fix. 😁. Maybe Harley will come through with a modern touring bike built around the Revolution Max. One can hope, right?
Glad they are going back to cable, I prefer the friction zone adjustability, hate having to let the clutch out 80% to get to friction zone. Also like the more mechanical feel.
I just can't wait for the retro front drum brake to make a come back for 2022
Reserve petcocks NOW!
Matt - good discussion. Appreciate your honest overview. Frankly, Harley needs to add more mechanical, technical and value to these touring bikes. This is a move back, in my view.
If you want a high tech touring bike get a Goldwing.
@@allanmccullough8550 Had a 21 Wing. Yes, it had tons of tech, great hydraulic clutch, phenomenal Nissin brakes, and power overwhelmingly greater than HD. However I now ride a Road Glide Limited for a single reason…comfort. I’m a combat vet with degenerated knees and feet. The Goldwing ONLY has mid mount foot pegs, due to engine architecture there are no options for forward controls. I MISS my hydraulic clutch on that bike as the cable clutch on my Glide is STIFF and after a ride in the rain squeaks like a duck each time I pull it. I had tons of friction zone on my wing and could feel it well through the lever, the cable clutch on my Glide feels very numb and never quite engages in the same exact spot even after adjustment. I loved my wing, but my god did I hurt riding it after 30-45 minutes and begged for a gas stop every hour, which is NOT what a Goldwing should do to someone.
I bought an Oberon lever because of the friction zone. It's been awesome for low speed and slower maneuvers because it's brought it closer to the bars. Juice clutch for me too!
i did the same! great lever
Thank You for all your Harley knowledge. I'm new to Boston Harley Davidson and I think other than my co workers you have gave me so much information.
Glad to hear it! Thanks for watching my friend.
I ride a 2020 Low Rider. When I test rode a Road Glide last year I didn't even notice that much of a difference in feel between hydraulic and cable. I will say that my cable clutch seems to walk out of adjustment every 2,000 miles but they made the new clutches so easy to adjust it's never bothered me. I'm looking to trade in on a bagger this spring and I'm completely indifferent about this. If I find a nice leftover '20, awesome, but I really got my eye on a Snake Venom Roadglide. Awesome video as always Matt. Living vicariously through your channel again with 3 feet of snow outside my door.
I have a 2020 RK standard, wife has a 2018 heritage. I can ride both and be fine, however I feel like the cable is a little easier on the release. Probably just me I do have some wrist issues. For you guys who want a shorter and easier pull ( IMO ) on hydraulic, softbrake.com. Night and day difference for me, swapped out my clutch and front brake lever. There is a inch less travel on both, yes the clutch fully disengages. I do feel hydraulic has a smoother actuation on pull and release. I have no problems doing low speed maneuvers with hydraulic, even easier with the softbrake clutch lever. Sorry Matt, I’m not sponsored by softbrake......lol just helped me a-lot. Less hand fatigue from a safety perspective.
I've been riding for many years and my 2018 Street Glide is the first hyd clutch I ever had. At first I didn't like the lever travel distance but loved the ease of the smoothness of operation. I soon discovered that an aftermarket replacement lever was available and got one. That corrected the lever travel distance to the immediate start of the friction zone at release of the lever and now it's perfect.
I heard some info that some of the reason for the cable clutch is to get rid of the oil transfer to the primary problems is this true.
No Difference between the Two with Oil Transfer..
@@donaldalbershardt6854 Then why no oil transfert issue with M8 Softails 🤔?...
I agree the real reason that I heard is because of the oil transfer between the primary in the oil of the transmission because the shaft that goes in between leaks when it hits temperatures
The Hydraulic and Cable Clutch use the same Pushrod !!!
@@didierlevy4268 Its not a Clutch issue it's a Pressure Problem
I like the hydraulic, the one thing I can’t stand is other dealers lying to your face, matt laidlaw tells it how it is, 99% of these other dealerships do not. I notice they try to BS you until you open your mouth and show them how much you actually know, sometimes it’s more then them honestly. At the end I think Harley is going backwards... thanks for being honest matt
Here in valencia, spain we have morons selling harleys 🤷🏼♂️ exactly like you said
Sounds to me, as though Matt lives in a state of denial. If he wants the hydraulic thing to be best, his mind simply refuses to accept any other possibility. Hmmm, maybe a Shrink could make sense of that, but I can't.
You said it all. Love my 2020 and hydraulic clutch.
I have never had a motorcycle with a hydraulic clutch, so I really do not have an opinion on the use of a hydraulic clutch. I can say that I am used to using a cable clutch, so I will have to test ride a vehicle with a hydraulic clutch to make a comparison. Good information Matt, you make me want to try another motorcycle to see what the difference really feels like.
i have smaller hands. i added adjustable levers to my 17 UL. it helped alot with friction zone
Which one?
One of the best explanation that I saw about this topic. Congrats.
I see your view points but i do disagree. The fact that touring motorcycles are 30 or more easily. Yet don’t offer hydraulic clutch is ridiculous.
It sounds like you’re trying to convince yourself this is a good thing. It’s not. It’s so out of touch.
I really like Matt, but yeah at times he is trying to convince himself that something that HD has done was a good thing. Honestly he has to, he's married to the Motor CO with the decades and family history with the dealership.
Heat Transfer from the Exhaust to the Clutch Cover is some of the Problem..
@@Acmegamer idk Matt is usually pretty honest with what he likes and dislikes about the Motor Co. he’s never been afraid to criticize them. That’s why I like his channel
Riden both... made by various motorcycle manufactures KTM (dirt & Street), Ducati, Harley, Yamaha ETC. Never really cared or noticed. As long as the engine excites me, I tend to only focus on the enjoyment of riding!!!
Thank you so much for your content man the honesty and the non-bias is really appreciated. I prefer the hydraulic clutch but I’m like you I wouldn’t make any major financial changes if I had one.
I had 2000 Wideglide before I traded it for The 2015 Street Glide Special that I have now.I like the hydraulic clutch alot better than the cable clutch that was on my Wideglide.That cable clutch used to make my wrist hurt on a 200 mile ride to the mountains and back when you did alot of shifting.My wrist never hurts with the hydraulic clutch on my Streetglide.I did have the cable lubed and adjusted but it was always harder to pull in than the hydraulic clutch.A Friend of mine has a Crossbones with a cable clutch and I can't believe how easy that clutch is to pull in.Just as easy as a hydraulic clutch.When I've rode Demo CVO ULTRAS or just about any kind of CVO BIKE I noticed a tingling feeling in my fingers when putting the bike in first gear.This is Just on The CVO BIKES not anything else with a hydraulic clutch.
*MAIN REASON $$$*
*3or4 RECALLS* On the hydraulic setup .
We don't see those numbers, the factory accountants and suits do .
Interesting discussion. I have 4 bikes, two with hydraulic clutches and two with cable clutches, one of which is my Harley. The Harleys cable clutch on the M8 is the easiest to pull out of all of them, the next is my Ducati 1200 Multi which is close and it’s hydraulic. The worst is my other Ducati with a hydraulic clutch where you need gorilla forearms. Do I have a preference on feel, not really. But here is the main thing with clutches, and riding a touring bike in Australia. You can fix a cable clutch on the side of the road, and I’d always take a spare cable with me. I’ve fixed a young blokes clutch out in the middle of the outback because he had brought a spare with him (though he couldn’t fix it himself). With a hydraulic clutch, it’s game over, trip over and probably a very expensive tow up which if you were unlucky could easily be up to 1500 miles to the nearest HD dealer, who probably hasn’t got the parts on the shelf and has to order them from Sydney, if you’re lucky. Worst case is there are none in the country and it’s a six weeks wait. Been there and done that on another manufacturers bike. So for me, my preference is cable simply because if it all goes pear shaped, I can get myself out of trouble (or you can find someone who can).
First off, great video, and I value your opinion. Thank you! I now love my hydraulic clutch on my Ultra AFTER replacing it with a Soft Brake lever which brought it an inch closer to the grip. I have coppel tunnel and holding it halfway out in traffic killed me, but since the reduced pull lever, I'm loving it!
Thank you very much for the information pros and cons. I am new to Harley Davidson and taking my lessons on a cable clutch and I bought ultra classic with hydraulic. You have described very well what the differences are. I will have to re- learn my friction zone.
Like the hydraulic, harley went back to the cable due to the continued primary transfer as there plastic tube was not the fix. Ask me how I know. Matt love your channel and your store, I’m a commuter from NY.
I have heard the same plastic tube non-fix issue but I haven't personally had any issues with my old 2016 Ultra Limited or my new 2020 Road Glide Limited. I believe the issues were with the 2017-2019 Milwaukee 8's.
@@williamohrt554 There's a problem with the 17-19 M8"s? My 17 Ultra Classic has ran almost flawlessly for the 27,000 miles I've had it. One sensor that took 5 minutes to fix, thats been it. I'm knocking on wood because I keep hearing about M8 issues, I just haven't seen them... luckily.
@@pinkiewerewolf Good luck. Hope you never have a problem.
@@williamohrt554 Thanks, Me too. Have a great evening.
Did you try the new clutch rod from Macomb? I just ordered one, not sure if I’m having the issue but it’s like $75 shipped and worth the peace of mind.
Spot on with the pros and cons of each. I think a lot of riders who complain that a hydraulic clutch is a harder pull (it isn't), can't handle spending any time in the friction zone with the lever so far away from the hand grip. I like that my hydraulic clutch friction zone has been consistent for 6 years and needs no adjusting. I don't like that a cable stretches and needs regular adjustment. But I wouldn't let a cable clutch keep me from buying a new bike - every bike I rode before my '15 was a cable.
I’m actually a little jealous of the cable clutch cause it’s so much simpler to do bars with the cable clutch especially if they used that new connector system they used on the softails
I'm a cable clutch person 100%.. I've never seen a race bike or performance bike with a hydraulic clutch. You can fine tune a cable clutch as well as its easier to work on them. Could you imagine being on the road and dropping your bike breaking the hydraulic line, a cable you could just use vise grips or plyers to pull the cable and get home.
After trying hydraulic clutch at my first HD demo event 3 years ago, I knew I wouldn’t replace my 05’ cable clutch ride for a new Harley. I don’t understand this whining over easy clutches- never had an issue with squeezing a clutch under any circumstance and hydraulic clutch feel sucks! I adjust my own clutch and place the zone exactly where I want it.
If you had a 2000 Harley Wideglide You would really appreciate a Hydraulic clutch.I had that cable clutch lubricated and adjusted and it would still make your wrist hurt after going on a 200 mile ride with alot of shifting.Never a problem with The Hydraulic Clutch on My 2015 Streetglide Special.
I've had two HDs with the hydraulic clutch and I don't have any complaints. I personally feel that the switch to a cable clutch was a cost cutting initiative by HD. Just another indicator that the Motor Company is in financial difficulty. I worry about their long term viability. It's an iconic American company, and I do hope they do better in years to come as they break into the electric, adventure and sport bike markets.
Love your videos Matt. Keep 'em coming!
Love the Hydraulic. I have both and the Hydraulic is way lighter and refined.
I personally prefer the hydraulic clutch. I have studied the pros and cons of both and agree with you Matt, it's not worth it to change to hydraulic.
I will be purchasing a Harley in the near future. Most likely used, to get the hydraulic clutch, but it won't be a factor is the numbers and options are right on a new Harley.
Keep up the great work here , Matt, showing off those GREAT new bikes. And Thank you Matt , for going over your thoughts on Harley and the company's thoughts as to changes being made along the way.
Love the channel and hope to come by your shop and meet you in person soon.
Could you do a video showing how much it cost to change from cable to hydraulic and vice versa? When I had me fxbb a big part of getting back onto a touring bike was the hydraulic clutch.
The hydraulic clutch took a little getting used to when I got my 2019 FLHTK, but after a little time with it I really liked it better and was really happy HD went that style of clutch. I love the consistency of the friction zone. I'm not sure I'd ever want to revert to the cable.
Anything HD does has 50% of it's "fanbase" bitching about it. They are in a lose/lose situation. If they stay the same they "aren't innovating enough" if they step outside the box they're "alienating their customer base". This is no different, it's the age of the internet, too many would rather complain than ride. Do I like the new cable clutch? Who knows I haven't ridden it, and my guess is neither have a lot of the keyboard warriors that think it's the worst thing HD has done in 100 years.
I have not test rode a bike with a hydraulic clutch. I practice slow speed maneuvers and I think my hand would tire faster having the friction zone engage at the end of travel. It all depends on your stature (Matt is blessed in that Dept.) 😊 and how you ride. Matt you explained all the pros and cons to a T. Thank you!
Ruffles some feathers first thing in the morning, nice video Matt!
Great video Matt. I had a 09 deluxe and now have a 2020 RGS and can tell you that i didn’t missed a beat when I changed clutches. You can also get adjustable levers if you think the pull is too far. Ride safe.
I have had bikes with a hydraulic clutch for years and they work just fine for me. The 2 Harley Davidson's I have both have one and I'm good with them. 👍 I wouldn't have a problem with the cable clutch on the new one if I was looking at a new Harley Davidson...
Hydraulic clutch is better that’s why other manufacturers have been doing it for years. I agree with you Matt on the reasoning, I think the bottom line its less cost for Harley-Davidson. Just think what cost it saved by switching & increasing the 2021 bikes price from 100 to 400. They are most likely making at least $800 to $1000 on each bike.
So should Harley put DOHC motors in every bike, since other manufacturers have been doing that for years it must be better right?
I’m not saying hydraulic clutches aren’t better (although my least favorite clutch out of all the bikes I own is my MV Agusta’s clutch which is hydraulic) but what I am saying is that just because most other manufacturers do something doesn’t mean it’s inherently better.
In fact most other manufacturers have much worse paint than Harley, and have much worse paint for years! Should Harley switch to much worse paint since it’s clearly better!?
I've been riding an service Harley's over 50 years, i prefer the clutch cable feel to engage or disengage as better control of action !
I've never ridden a Harley hydraulic actuated clutch bike myself, but I can say I owned a 2005 dyna super glide(among others previously) and during the time of ownership I suffered a neck injury that caused some nerve damage to my arms and hands resulting in some loss of strength and control along with some fatigue, pulling the clutch in and out multiple times during heavy traffic I would sometimes have to pull over to give my hands a break and I ended up selling the bike because I felt my riding days were coming to an end but after a short time of completely missing riding I decided to buy another bike with the thought of replacing the cable clutch with an aftermarket hydraulic clutch to help myself during those traffic situations, I purchased a 2009 road king and I was shocked at how easy the clutch pull was on the road king compared to my old super glide, I don't know what Harley did in those four years of production to ease the pull of the clutch but hats off to them, I decided not to replace the clutch cable for the hydraulic after all.
It's hydraulic for me more precise and no adjustments to make and it's very smooth dependable feel does it for me...I've been riding for forty five yrs.and no going back to cable...unless I have to✌🏿☝🏿
This was the best video out there on the subject. Thanks Matt!
Well done. I like my Hydraulic clutch, but can ride with either.
Thank you Matt, always love watching your content. I will take the cable clutch 100% of the time. I definitely prefer the “mechanical feel” of any motorcycle I am riding which leads to better control and safety in my riding. Having total command of how and when I want to engage the power to my rear wheel is one of the keys to having command over my bike. I’m very glad Harley-Davidson came back to the cable clutch regardless of motive. Now, I wish they would bring back some of the beautiful iconic classic models they dropped! After all, that’s why I buy and own 3 Harley-Davidson’s in the first place! Take care Matt, have a great summer!
I definitely prefer cable clutch for the feel and adjustability.
thanks for giving us something informative without any bias about selling... hd have had some problems with hyd clutch .. my 2019 lowrider from new pulled away so easy out of my garden i could not believe how smooth it was,,, no snatch no judder even when stood for a long time,,, easily the best i have owned..
I’ve had two H-D cycles with hyd clutch. Love them.. I always thought that was a major improvement. I haven’t noticed all the negative things he spoke about. I prob will now🙂 Either way, would not trade hyd for cable
I’m currently riding an ‘18 RoadGlide Special and love the clutch . I have owned bikes with both . Personally I like the hydraulic but not enough to make a stink over . One thing that can happen with the cable , the cable breaks . I’ve seen it happen on a Police motor .
Thanks Matt , another great video
That's rare but true. I've seen it before as well. You really have to neglect your cable for that to happen. Rust has to set in etc.
A cable clutch on a touring motorcycle costing in many cases in excess of $30K is an embarrassment in 2021 ! So glad I bought my 2020 RGS !
Thanks for sharing your view point. It's interesting to see how divided this topic is.
Your embarrass over nonsense. The hydraulic clutch system will ruin your wrist depending how big your hands are. People were actually trying to add the extra damper they put into the trike because of the wear and tear it cause on one’s wrist.
You said it. i'm down
@@MattLaidlaw you have to ride both systems, and consider what kind of riding you normally involved in. In Nyc metro area, rush hour traffic will kill your wrist if you’re using that hydraulic clutch. I did it everyday. Same with those slow turns. Matt your like 6’6” so you’re not gonna have the issues of getting your fingers around the lever while turning. I’m 5’8” and it’s gotten so bad, it would have to jump into the car to recover.
@@tax905972 My 2017 Limited had a hydraulic clutch, my 2020 has a hydraulic clutch! I’ve owned many Japanese bikes since I was 16 years old all hydraulic clutch! My hands 🙌 work just fine thank you! Nonsense!
Great video. In his own diplomatic way Matt explained the hydraulic clutch was too complex for some Harley riders. Cable is good for those guys who can't hit the 'G spot'!
😂🤣 That about sums it up.
I agree, I find the hydraulic smooth and consistent. I do have large hands so I never struggle with gray (friction) zone for slow speed cone work. I like that it does not require the extra maintenance. Great video Matt thank you.
Well done brother!! Keep’em comin’!!
Matt, I appreciate you diving into this touchy subject and you've done a excellent job explaining the difference and possibly the reasons Harley reverted backwards to a cable clutch. I think after everything was said and done it was definitely a money saving action on Harleys part pure and simple. They figured it wasn't a big enough advantage to a rider for the money it cost to produce it. In my opinion they have messed up,,,again. I absolutely love my 2019 CVO Road Glide hydraulic clutch! I loved everyone I've had and its too important of a feature to give up.( I see that Harley even eliminated the Sirius radio module). Let's hope they don't go back to cable operated brakes next because the circus donut riders prefer it!!!
I think H.D. realize they can't increase the prices of their over priced bikes ,BUT THEY HAVE TO STOP TAKING THINGS OFF AND CHEAPING OUT!!!!!! 2019 CVO street glide has coloured stitched seat, front lower fairing with speakers,THIS WAS REMOVED FOR 2020 then 2021back to a cable clutch.whats next? its incredible 2017 to 2019 M8 has a oil pump that is poorly designed HD tell's you to get the bad pumps replaced $$$$$$ wow!!!!
I remember when the Pan Head had a mechanical rear brake rod. Some aftermarket company will make an adjustable hydraulic clutch lever and make everybody happy.
They didn't mess up if they can fork you for a new hydraulic clutch kit ;)
@@eugeniustheodidactus8890 THERE IT US!! Now you're catching on!
There it IS, that is.
I’m used to the hydraulic clutch for number of years and I liked very much. I used to feel the difference when I ride my friend’s softail. I recently bought a 2021 Street Glide. It’s not a big deal when it comes to a cable clutch, except the fact that the new clutch will require adjustment on frequent biases as you mentioned in the video. I have to live with that I guess. Thanks Matt for the great information you post in your channel. Your channel really worth subscribe and likes.
Cable clutch is more fun to ride because of the bigger friction zone.
I got a Dyna and a Limited. I like the cable clutch better.
I had a 2000 Wideglide and even after having the cable clutch lubricated and adjusted it was still harder to pull in than the Hydraulic Clutch on My 2015 Streetglide Special.I Love the Hydraulic Clutch on this Bike.Its perfect for me.I have rode a few Harleys with easy to pull cable clutches and I'm fine with them.They are just few and far between.
I learned to ride Harleys with cable clutch and after a long ride arriving home with lots of traffic or when there was an accident on the road it was a true pain in the ass having to pull that clutch too many times, I prefer hydraulic all the way (also very precise and not having to adjust it) as an experienced rider and as a new one too, specially for new/young riders with less strength in the left forearm, I don't know if the new cable clutches are as hard to pull as old Harleys but those were hard to pull
i like the cable clutch. period. i have more control over servicing it easily too.
Ride Like a Pro is an amazing class. I took it from Motor Officer Jersey here in Colorado last year and practice slow speed maneuvering almost every time I ride. It's like trials riding for street bikes. The slow, lock your handlebar and scrape your floorboard turn is very difficult for me and didn't realize until this post that it could be a result of having a hydraulic clutch. My next bike will probably be a Road Glide and was a bit ticked off about the cable clutch until now. I really appreciate this post and Jerry's input.
Always enjoy your input Matthew keep up the good work! Hope to meet you someday. Texas Panhandle
My friend built a hot rod deuce in 2005 and installed a hydraulic clutch he still has the bike he still has the clutch I traded my 2010 road glide custom with a cable clutch to a 2020 road glide S hydraulic clutch at 64 years old my hands are starting to look like Krampus so I like the hydraulic clutch especially with a passenger my wife has a 2017 road glide S she’s a hairdresser and has worked with her hands her whole life and that’s the reason for her having a hydraulic clutch which she loves. we’re talking about clutches and perceptions yet they take the vent doors off the faring and leave a hole you get one key fob the heel shifter is an up charge so I understand those that feel their cheapening the brand.They do so much right that’s it’s a shame to see it go backwards just my two cents thank you Matt as usual
Good balanced article, thanks Matt.
Thanks for a very comprehensive presentation on the pros and cons of hydraulic vs cable clutch systems.
Very much appreciated your comments on those of us with shorter finger reaches.
I have been attempting a hydraulic conversions for my 883 custom and various lever systems to lighten the clutch pressure.
I think I will settle finally on the cable with a few mechanical combination upgrades.
Much thanks,
Lloyd
I can’t believe you didn’t touch on the issue of Transmission fluid transfer. I couldn’t wait to buy my first hydraulic clutch bike in 2017. A Road King Special. I didn’t even test ride it I was so stoked. Then I picked it up. What a huge disappointment. The clutch lever effort was noticeably higher than my 7 previous cable
Clutch harleys. It was my first comment to the salesman. “I thought this clutch was supposed to be reduced effort?” It’s not and it has been proven with a simple scale test on a few videos. I thought whatever, I’ll learn to live with it. Then around 20000 miles in, the transmission fluid started to transfer and when I brought it to my dealers attention, he says “that’s impossible” 😳
Long story short this was the start of a long frustrating year and around another 20000 miles of HD giving me the run around on fixing the problem. After 3 attempts at a repair did nothing, they eventually installed the vent in the primary and solved the issue. (Something I suggested on day one and was laughed at by HD)
I asked for a fair trade in value on a new bike while this was going on. Nope. I asked for an extended warranty on my transmission because it had been run low on fluid for so many miles. Nope. This whole issue has put such a bad taste in my mouth that I bought a twin cam touring bike again a few weeks ago and am selling the road king and will never purchase another bran new HD again. They do not give a rats ass about their customers and the issues they face with their new machines. This was my third new bike from this dealer and definitely my last. I have no doubt that one of the reasons they went back to a cable clutch is the transfer issue suffered by a large percentage of bikes that they said for over a year wasn’t even happening and now this video not even mentioning it. What a joke.
We honestly don’t see transfer issues very often at our shop, but we do all three compartments (motor, primary, and transmission) every five thousand miles which is much sooner than HD recommends. We aren’t trying to hide anything, hell we did a whole video on Andrew blowing up his stage 3 m8! If we did 10000 for the primary and 20000 for the trans as recommended we might see it more and think of it as a big issue but with are more aggressive service intervals we really don’t notice transfer in the vast majority of bikes
I wish you would have touched on the warranty issues and the oil transfer to the primary from the hydraulic clutch. I have only used a cable clutch so I can't compare both.
Think HD is going further in cost cutting mindset. From my2020 no more heel shifter and only one key fob, 21 no more hydraulic clutch. Guessing what would they remove next year??Maybe the seat??or the wheels??Scandalous
Cable brakes and drums. For that old school feel.
I agree with your honest accessment. I have the hydraulic clutch now. It took a small amount of time to adjust to it, but it wasn't a big deal. I prefer it now and I'm a fairly new rider.
There is a reason all motor cops that compete in rodeos use cable clutch. Cable is love cable is life
If I did not have to worry about maintenance cost I would agree with you.
Thanks ...the new 2022 Road King went back to cable clutch, easy to fix if you need to, less maintenance for owner. Love it Rocky.
Consumers : "Bikes are too expensive, no full led is not acceptable"
Harley : "We heard you, here is the cable clutch ... but the bike will be a little more expensive of course"
They are digging their own grave as they are just interested is getting money without bothering about anything. For the amount the bikes cost there is no excuse to not give the basic necessities on the bike.
See the 2022 Indians? I are much better equipped than the Softails they are going after. I hope it makes Harley step up it's game. I'm a Softail guy, so don't really don't concern myself with the touring models. Harley cheaper out instead of putting on better hydraulic clutch
I would have loved to see the Harley Davison improve on the hydraulic clutch instead of go backwards. After all isn’t that what there are trying to do nowadays? Move forward and appeal to more riders. Bad move damn, Penny pinchers.
Great video by the way. I have a 2019 Electra Gide Standard. My first Harley Davidson. And I love it. I am 62, and I have really struggled with the hydraulic clutch. I have been riding motorcycles since I was a kid, I have a lot of experience on a motorcycle. I was really used to a wider friction zone. I had a hard time with the short drop out with the hydraulic clutch. For me, it was a safety issue. To make a long story short, I had my HD converted back to a cable clutch. I am so happy with the results. It was pricey but well worth it for me. I know every rider has their own personal preferences, I feel more confident on my HD now. Rob
I like having my AIM slave cylinder on my hydraulic clutch. Much easier pull with a much wider friction zone
Great video Matt. I have both clutch types. 2011 FLHTK and 2019 FLHT. I like cable better. It's all about where the friction zone is, cable feels better to me.
I have hydraulic clutch on my 2003 Road King Classic. Very reliable.
I have four bikes of various makes and I really couldn't care either way. My Goldwing has a hydraulic and my Heritage has a cable. I just get acclimated to whichever one I am riding. I do like the simplicity of the cable clutch with no fluid to worry about, but either one doesn't sway my decision on buying a bike.
"it reduced costs on the bike".....
Also: "Prices went up a few grand this year for a lesser bike"
What bike went up a few grand!? The specials are cheaper this year
@@TH3G0ODGUY 🤦♂️ do some research.
@@pandobear8544 I literally work here at the dealership, what research do you want me to do?
@@TH3G0ODGUY which one?
@@pandobear8544 the one who makes the videos you are watching
Matt, last year Purchased my first Harley with a hydraulic clutch, a 2017 FatBoy S. My experience was: 1. that it was not less effort but more, 2. friction zone was way smaller than a cable clutch, the lever would be half way through its travel before the clutch would start to disengage, making the friction zone minuscule. for me this was a deal breaker as use of the friction zone is how I handle a large bike with lots of torque through slow, tight maneuvers (think parking lots, traffic jams, and my daily commute to work). I loved the bike and that 110ci, but I traded it in because the handling just didn't match my riding style. That fat front tire was great on the highway, but I just prefer the handling of a skinnier front tire everywhere else. To really get the bike to fit my riding style I would had to replace the heavy wheels, and that awful clutch, so I just got something else.
My 17 fat bob had an easier clutch to pull than my 2020 road king does. I also had to replace my levers on the road king to bring the friction zone closer to the bars to make slow speed maneuvering a lot easier. I hated the hydraulic clutch until I changed the levers.
Interesting, thanks for sharing.
Same exact here. I had to put down 350$ plus installation to get adjustable levers because of how the hydraulic clutch has such a long distance to friction zone. Such a long distance stock it's downright dangerous. My cable 1999 Fatboy never had issues like that and was fine stock.
I have a 93 FLHS that I bought early this year. My clutch was grabbing right off the bars. I brought it in for service and Digger adjusted it. Now, its at the other extreme, but it was good to hear that it should grab 85% out which is probably on the money.
Could you keep the hydraulic clutch and have an adjustable clutch lever, would that also solve the problem for people with small hands etc?
I’m not sure if Harley makes a different lever but it is definitely possible. I have a Goldwing with a hydraulic clutch and it has an adjustable lever.
I had a hydraulic clutch on my Victory Jackpot and hated it. There was zero feel. You weren't in the friction zone until the lever was almost fully released which made low speed manouvering much more difficult. When I was shopping for my Harley Davidson back in 2018 I was determined to get a model with a cable clutch. That's how my SportGlide came and I'm very happy with it.
I prefer the hydraulic clutch. IMHO
I've been riding for 16 years always had a cable clutch until March when I bought a brand new 2020 road glide eagle eye and ill admit the hydraulic clutch did take a little getting used to but I love it
Excellent review well explained I like the feel of a cable clutch but wouldn’t worry me if all models went hydraulic👍🇬🇧
60,000kms on my 2018 FLTRU, love the hydraulic clutch, as you said the "zone" is right the start, right where I like it
I must be a real rookie, I've riden both and I felt no difference.
No real advantage to a Harley hydraulic clutch. You feel the difference when you hop on a Euro bike.
You never had to adjust the hydraulic clutch. That's the main thing I like about mine. It's always the same.. no adjusting.. never have trouble finding neutral.
A clutch cable isn't the end of the world but it is a step back in technology and it should not be sold as an "upgrade". It's not am upgrade.
@@candlstudios 100% correct!
The first hydraulic clutch I used I hated it because of it engaging so far out. Then I got used to it and now I like it because you never have to get it adjusted. Also noticed when the bikes cold the clutch engages closer to the grip, when the bike warms up it engages farther out.
I bought a 2021 SGS with the cable clutch and ended up getting Tennis Elbow and had cortisone shots. I installed the Müller Power Clutch and made a world of difference. I highly recommend it.