I read fist of the north star as a kid right after reading the punisher n batman crossover comic and I have to agree. Bruce is not only insane but is a terrible hero. My cousin is a hardcore batman fan and even he knows that Raoh, Souther, and Kaioh needs to be put down without hesitation. Now Bruce can't even lay a finger on those 3 but if he could he still wouldn't put em down. If kenshiro walked into Gotham and had 24 hours to put in work criminals and villains would drop like flies as if they got black bagged by the CIA.
I do not agree with it. It’s not Batman’s responsibility to be judge, jury and executioner. He trained his body and mind to peak human performance. Outfitted himself with the best non lethal weapons, armor and vehicles to save the day. If Gotham City used the death penalty he would break into a prison to prevent a condemned criminal from getting executed. Batman subdues and neutralizes threats to society. Society decides what’s to be done with those threats. So society are the ones to blame for the threats that end up harming them time and time again. Not Batman. Bruce Wayne gives his blood, sweat and tears for Gotham City, he doesn’t have to also shed other people’s blood for Gotham City.
@@jeremiahbarnes6313 nope. None of the people who think like you deserve to have Batman save your sorry asses in the first place. Everything Batman does for Gotham City is pro bono. How dare you bunch of insufferable ingrates act like you have any right to ask even more of him! If you think violent criminals deserve to get their throats s!it, stop playing so many video games and get your f*t ass in a gym. Get in shape. Master Mixed Martial Arts. Train with a Seal Team and go kick some a$$ yourself. If you’re really about that life.
I love how in Injustice Batman immediately turns his back on Superman for killing the Joker but is more than happy to team up with Harley Quinn who helped plan and carry out the murder of Lois, her unborn child and everyone in Metropolis. She gets a pass for blowing up an entire city but Superman is a irredeemable monster for killing the one responsible.
She had a redemption also Superman went on a murder spree killing multiple of Bruce's closest friends including Green Arrow and Black Canary (I know she's still alive but you get my point).
@@brothersofwrath4785 Darkseid has killed more people than Joker can imagine the Joker will become a good guy before Darkseid does. He's literally the God Of Evil. He didn't recruit her immediately it took him nearly 5 years to trust her. Even then, Harley hasn't really killed people Joker is the one who regularly kills.
@@gamingwithcori8521 Her “redemption” primarily consists of people just forgetting what she’s done. She’s never punished. She never has to face any consequences and beyond Martha and Jonathan Kent, no one ever seems to call her out for her crimes. Superman is Batman’s best friend and he completely overlooks the fact that the only reason Superman is doing what he’s doing is BECAUSE of Harley. If Batman wanted to save Superman maybe putting the woman who killed his wife and child on his team might not be the best idea.
Batman not killing the joker makes sense back when the joker was more of a clown themed mob boss who while dangerous, still had some restraint. Nowadays however with him being a gleefully irredeemable monster who goes out of his way to be as evil as possible just makes batman come off as downright stupid at best and outright enabling and bad at worst.
Came here to say this. And realistically this is a problem with the writing, and the eternal nature of comics. The REAL reason why Batman won't kill the Joker is because he's too popular to be killed off. And the writers gotta keep people invested so they have to make Joker more of a threat each time, and it got out of hand. I also blame The Dark Knight for it because it gave us the anarchist Joker who doesn't care about money and wants to have this dance with Batman for eternity. That movie changed Joker forever and the comics had to keep up with that and outdo it. When in truth, the Joker was originally just a mob boss who wanted money and power and it was just his methods that were comedic in nature, killing people by literally making them laugh to death and all that. Seriously does nobody remember when Joker tried to cheese the copyright laws by putting his fucking face on fish?? That's classic Joker! Not this disfigured overly sadistic, animalistic and ghoulish demon that he's been made out to be nowadays. He's supposed to be a mad clown. He's supposed to have style, some class, and actually be funny. His mame is LITERALY The *JOKER* ffs! That's why I love BTAS Joker, The Batman (2004) Joker and Brave and the Bold Joker. Yeah, they're criminals, but they still have some restraint and they're entertaining and funny. Save the overly dark and twisted stuff for the very end like Batman Beyond did. Let Joker go unhinged like never before but then kill him. Batman Beyond : Return of the Joker gave us the most dangerous, monstrous and sadistic Joker since The Killing Joke but they played it as the endgame Joker story. Like "Yeah this is the last thing he'll ever do".
That's why on injustice (at least the movie) i side not with superman, but wonder woman. She sides with superman when he kills the joker for all the obvious right reasons... but when superman loses it and becomes a villain she tries to stop him. She is the balance between the two. Batman is a terrible hero.
And batman would still say "he can be rehabilitated" I'm pretty sure that after killing millions of people and nuking a city is a pretty good sign that someone can't be redeemed
Honestly the rant makes more sense when you remember that in the dceu he has somehow killed all these goons directly and indirectly in bvs. Yet somehow didn’t kill joker, dead shot and all these other villains in suicide squad because reasons.
Yeah I love how this is a Batman that was eventually okay with killing but he didn’t kill joker the multiple times they met after Robin’s death and all he did was break his teeth, which is why he has those metal grills.
If u were paying attention to the production ud know that Snyders Batman started out as more or less like the classic Batman. But after 20 years his dogmatic morality inevitably betrayed him and he finally had a moral breaking point
I feel like IRL the Joker would cause laws to be reformed especially in Injustice because no way the public would just be OK with him going back to Arkham.
I’m not really into Batman nor know much about this universe, but I’m wondering is how tf does Joker keep getting out of jail? Matter of fact does Gotham NOT do death Penalties!?
@@jeremyallen5974yeah, A FUCKING NUKE!!! Batman was even more terrible in Injustice. Here’s the simplest example. Batman when Joker kills metropolis:😊😊 Batman when Superman kills Joker:😡😡😡😡
If anything the city of Gotham should just sentence Joker to the electric chair or ship him off to some remote prison MORE SECURE THAN ARKHAM It’s not Batman’s fault it’s the judges in Gotham
@@DragoEpyon I wonder what state Gotham is supposed to be in. One would think after a while the super criminals would draw the attention of a higher authority that would have more pull on the issue.
Shows how dogshit their catalog REALLY is that a delusional rich prick who plays footsies with murderers and sociopaths is considered their best character
DC actually didn't want that line in at first but James gunn wouldn't budge. I'm glad it was said because fuck batman honestly. Also batman only sells the most cos they constantly push him because there's a shit ton of batman fanboys at dc
The Punisher isn't a better solution either. He'd be even worse than Batman. At least Batman will show you mercy, but the Punisher will just kill someone who is stealing to feed their family. Even Frank himself admits he isn't right in the head and no one should aspire to be like him. He's the exact opposite of Batman, someone who'll just kill all the criminals, even the smaller ones.
@@mcgclockno, he would not. I see you never read punisher comic in your life. He goes after the most sick and depraved people in the world and puts end to them permanently. Yes his methods are more extreme but it works.
@@ultrainferno.True, I haven't read much Punisher but he has many flaws regardless. He has more casualties than Batman and doesn't seem to even care about them. He's insane, maybe more than even Batman. He likes killing people and sometimes kills them in needlessly brutal ways. He unintentionally inspires cops to be more violent. He causes a lot of tragedy because he only cares about serving punishment instead of looking at whether the criminals can be redeemed and rehabilitated. The Punisher ironically represents what is wrong with the current broken justice system of America. Crime is a very nuanced subject that can't be just solved through killing and violence.
Joker - Go ahead and kill me Bats! Batman - You know I won't kill, but I have a friend named Diana who would love some alone time with you. Joker - HA HA I'd love to meet...oh this isn't go to end well. Wonder Woman - Don't worry Joker, my uncle will make sure you're well taken care of.
If it's the Diana who is Zeus' daughter, this gives an alternative to killing but sends him into the afterlife anyway. Not killing if he's sent physically to Tartarus.
According to Batman’s logic, everyone who has ever killed someone in self-defense is a murderer who belongs in prison. Edit: Gotta love all the batfans who can't handle any criticism of their lord and savior.
@@brothersofwrath4785 Well he's not insane I wouldn't kill anyone either it's not like I'm Superman someone shoots me I'd die. So if I killed anyone even Joker the GCPD and JL would be trying to kill me.
@@gamingwithcori8521 He would rather sacrifice his under age meatshield than let his giggly homolover lose a strand on his hair. That logic contradicts itself. The vigilantes trying to kill someone who shot Joker in defense makes no sense on any ground
@@Blerdcalibur I loved Question and Green Arrow in Justice League Unlimited. I also felt bad for Superman, though it wasn't outwardly said he was having a mental break down inside. With the non powered heros thinking he was about to snap and go full dictator. That must have made he feel like a monster inside.
No offense dude, but Rorschach in the comics is a racist, homophobic and misogynistic psychopathic creep who admired the Comedian and even defended him when the physical and sexual abuse that Comedian did to the original Silk Specter and all the war crimes he did in his life, Alan Moore himself said that Rorsarch disgusted him :^
@@C0ldIron as a mockery he's a failure. Him being the only person to have an actual moral system beyond utilitarian babbling makes him the only actual hero in the story. He's made out to be a schizo but in the end he's completely right about all of his conspiracies. Most of all though, the attempt at giving him "bad politics" just comes off flat because all his opinions are based on his upbringing, substance and physical abuse would give someone a distaste for the vector that caused it.
If the series finale isn't an episode of Bat-Mite entering the real world and have him pleading with the HBO Max executives not to cancel Peacemaker, we riot!
Both are completely false. Batman cares for his teammates very much and his plans weren’t lethal. They were altered by ra’s to kill them. Batman is willing to kill, but only as the absolute last result. The same criticisms over and over by many uninformed people have made them null.
This is how u know most of Snyders critics were lying with their phony outrage. They acted like the No Killing thing was a sacred rule that somehow didnt apply to other heroes.
@@whynot1548 It’s to make the story work If Batman kills these random goons why on earth isn’t he killing the joker? Or Harley? Or Lex? Or Deathstroke? Or Deadshot? Or any living popular villain That’s why he doesn’t kill, for these characters to keep existing in the story
There’s actually a scarecrow comic where Batman fights the scarecrow and gets hit with the fear toxin, which makes him see what Gotham would be like without him, but instead of seeing his beloved city in ruins overrun with crime, he sees a peacefully thriving city that’s better off without him, deep down Batman knows he’s not entirely good for Gotham, and even though Batman comes out the victor he’ll always have that doubt in his mind if he’s really doing the right thing by continuing his work.
In the BTAS (idk about the episode), Batman actually contemplates about his role in Gotham's Society and his War on Crime. He even remarks that all he has now achieved is that being a Pop Cultural Icon.
@@brothersofwrath4785 In one comic in an alternate universe Bruce Wayne's parents never died which meant no Batman. Gotham was riddled with crime and all of his rogues became villains for a different reason except The Joker but there was a gang called the Joker gang.
Reminds me of Daredevil season 2... the confrontation between Daredevil and Punisher... Punisher: You hit them, they get back up... I hit them, they stay down... You're a half measure, a person who can't finish the job.
He SHOULD have said "You're just a punk playing dress up. You beat these losers up and leave them to a justice system that mocks your beliefs with every drop of innocent blood that they allow these people to spill. You really want to make a difference? You start putting these sick bastards down like the animals that they are."
The joker is The walking embodiment of plot armor. Let's just say Batman wont kill him. Ok, fine. In what world does joker donthe stuff he has done and the cops just don't dome him right there. Batman has him tied up hanging from a lamp and a cop who lost friends or family or just saw the stuff he's done doesn't just empty the shotgun in his squad car into jokers face. He is the most recognizable person on DC earth, how is he not just shot by every gang member, thug, mobster, cop, or citizen on sight? Because plot armor.
Even then, with the amount of bombings, hijacking of missiles, and even the theft of a nuke in injustice. The US would've marked him as the highest priority target since Bin laden! There would be a massive military occupation of Gotham, the FBI, CIA, and GCPD would be spending sleepless nights cross referencing, profiling, and evaluating the location, and next move of joker. There would be top security to the point where you couldn't even blink without clearance. There'd be collusion with mobsters and other villains like Carmine Falcone and Two-face to turn the mob against Joker including exposing information on his hideouts, operations, and any rackets he runs. Hell, the IRS would be roped into the hunt as they could catch onto any assets joker owns based on his tax returns
how many times did Batman bring back super villains back to life and still managed to just taking out one by one of his own team and justice league like why if you’re not to realize that Superman man of steel heat many times how he destroyed the justice league is why he holds back on dark sideSuperman versus the elite. It’s a movie look it up Superman alone can take out the justice league because he’s holding back just like wonder woman to defeated his ass no joke, plot armor you guys made up.
Joker knows batman won't kill him hence the atrocities real toxic relationship, in a panel where punisher met joker he calls batman a fool for stopping him from killing joker
The fox family as a whole is dealing with the fact that lucius fox was brutalized by punchline, and Luke's sister was poisoned during A day I think. So joker atleast indirectly hurt like fox.
Dick's a weird one because Joker has brutalized him, but he's never broken him like Jason. What is the definition of Joker breaking someone? He also had Dick shook during Death of the family when he thought Alread was dead, and Joker had cut off his face
Agreed, Batman is not a great hero by letting him live time and time again. From the first few times you beat joker, put him away, and he breaks out again to mess more shit up again it’s okay to not want to kill him. But after a certain point or line you HAVE to realize there’s only ONE option left. Batman can kill joker and retire, he could kill joker and put himself in jail for it. But the main obvious choice is that you can just kill joker and continue being Batman not killing anyone. Maybe taking a break will help with that, maybe punishing himself will help with NOT killing more villains. I understand that it is IMPOSSIBLE for Batman to have the same feelings towards killing villains after this has happened, but not killing villains unless it’s necessary is fine. Batman’s no killing tule shouldn’t apply to joker or people like him. I’d imagine Harley would need to get killed after as well. But that’s just how I see it. Oh and I just remembered! You don’t even have to kill them. Just cripple them or beat the shit out of them. Immobilize their ability to murder people. Cut his hands off. And apparently death penalties don’t exist in THE MOST CRIME RIDDEN city in the world. Great Video!
Joker chose to break out of prison when all he could’ve done was just give up. And I just wish that there were no Joker fans at all if he exists as a villain.
batman is my favorite superhero. But, i will admit that some people have to be killed his no kill rule is...i don't think it's terrible i just think it's incredibly flawed
Yeah batman is my favorite as well and his no kill rule is definitely flawed but it's also what makes him the greatest superhero imo. The ability to be just no matter if ur good or bad it's what makes him a hero. At the end of the day it's up to the law to make a decision on his villians fate especially joker.
It's too absolute. To the point of unrealistic. Christopher Nolan's version made more sense. Because the "One Rule" is more like a general rule of thumb than an absolute.
It's all a matter of weighing lives Namely, the life of a mass murdering sociopath VS the lives of the innocent people and their families who will INEVITABLY die if the scumbag is allowed to continue menacing the streets
@@makhiswinging302 No dude. The Law will condemn Joker as mentally insane. Batman out of all people should know that sh*t. And some people like Bane, Scarecrow and many others is an irredeemable villains with a smarter and powerful power more than average Prison Guards/Police and etc. If he want to abide by his no killing rule then consider to make them never been able to do crimes again at the very least.
Comic books don't kill villains for the same reason they don't kill heroes, they need them around to milk money out of them, otherwise how else can you keep a franchise indefinitely if you are constantly killing off the bad guys. And in case someone dies, they can always bullshit their way back with the "Alternate Reality" crap.
@@ztk1138 The Justice League episode? OK. All his rouges were in Arkham, not posing the slightest threat and were actually working as productive members of society.
I agree, I just watched Batman Hush a few days ago. In that portrayal, His actions don't deter criminals, instead they motivate criminals to be bigger, stronger, and better villains who become even more evil and more creative in their crimes in an attempt to get revenge on Batman for beating them up and throwing them in Arkham. His code puts other people in danger, but makes Batman feel morally superior to the villains he fights. His philosophy isn't really merciful, it seems self-serving to Batman's ego more than anything, it seems that the good that Batman wants to protect is not the lives of people, not even the lives of those closest to him, but his own sense of morality by which he judges everyone else. Batman is portrayed in that film as being superior to everyone else for simply maintaining the status quo of Gotham city and holding his code above all else including the lives of people he's supposed to care about. For some reason he thinks that by continuing his efforts of beating up bad guys, stopping their crime sprees at the last minute, and sending them to Arkham asylum where they come out worse than they ever were before they showed up there in the first place, that he's actually saving these villains, when in fact he's making them bigger, tougher, and more evil than ever. He does the same thing and expects different results. The definition of insanity.
It's not just Batman either, it's also Gotham city's government. I mean I get it if Batman doesn't want to kill these homicidal maniacs. He's a vigilante. He doesn't have the authority to execute anybody anyway. If he did he'd be commiting a crime. The perogative to administer the death penalty belongs to the proper governing authorities in Batman's city, but they don't seem to be able to do their job properly. In fact they have to depend on Batman to catch these criminals. It's a running theme that Gotham's police force is corrupt and grossly incompetent. It's no wonder that Batman had to take certain matters into his own hands. He's like a wild wild west outlaw.
@@brothersofwrath4785ironic batman got the 1 guy who was keeping the villians locked away in arkum asylum kicked out and banned from Gotham for being to aggressive sure scarecrow Harley quin and poison ivy are considered meh enemies of batman does not mean you can ignore the hundreds if not thousands killed by Harley (this is before she was redeemed btw) scarecrow tortured the same amout if not more then Harley with his fear gas poison ivy I just know she must have a higher body count then the 2 before.
Even as a huge Batman fan, I have to agree. Batman IS mentally ill, at the very least. Underneath all the training, gadgets, and experience, he is still that scared, traumatised little boy, reacting and thinking as such. That's what he his - a broken man, trying his best, which is not enough. What made him Batman is what also keeps him from becoming what his city needs - someone that does what needs to be done. He does a bit, but it's not enough, never enough. He never finishes the job.
This video is old as fuck so I don't see anyone seeing this comment but I'm tired of the "Batman should kill" argument with this, as there are plenty of reasons why this doesn't work, with the worst part being how most media mishandles giving an answer as to why this can't happen, with the closest thing that shows an actual good answer to this not even being a Batman thing but Netflix's Jupiter Rising show and Super Crooks However, think about this: If Batman were to kill the Joker and never kill again, what type of precedent does that set for the rest of Gotham, to other heroes? What will they do when they find out that, in certain situations, killing is alright? How long will it take before Gotham is plagued by a much worse situation with murderous vigilantes running around killing whomever they believe is deserving? Now yes, this can lead to some good but what about situations involving characters like Mr Freeze, Harley Quinn (a victim of abuse who was manipulated into becoming a villain), Catwoman, Deadshot (who's just trying to support his kids), tragic villains with serious mental health problems who can be rehabilitated but can't anymore because they're dead, or even just the random homeless person doing some shit just to survive. What about with other heroes? How long before other heroes who saw the example Batman set by killing the Joker start playing judge, jury, and executioner with little regard for circumstance and even potentially putting other people's lives at risk to get the job done. We're already having problems like this with the police in our own world, so just imagine that with lawless vigilantes with superpowers that we can't hold accountable nearly as much as we can the police. And don't even tell me that Batman killing wouldn't have that much of an impact. Not only is he one of the main heroes for DC in real life, but he's a major big deal in-universe as well with him being not only the protector of one of the most crime ridden cities in the world and leader of an entire bat family (and the international Batman Incorporated) but he's also a founding member of the Justice League with plenty of importance in the DC Universe. Plus, as several others in the comments said, the problem also falls upon the courts and judicial system as they keep failing and letting the joker get away with all of this. Batman isn't the one responsible as there are actual good reasons as to why he can't kill, it's the justice system of Gotham itself that keeps sending him back to Arkham and allowing him to escape again and keeps sending him back to Arkham, and no the explanation of "oh, they can't be charged since Batman brought them in as a vigilante" bit from the B:TAS episode Trial wouldn't work. Just watch some lawyer reaction videos to it, yes there are some, and they'll explain why this doesn't work. The only universes where the argument in Peacemaker makes sense are ironically enough his own and others like it where Batman does kill or atleast makes sure they die as, if he does already kill, then why doesn't he kill the Joker, and this can be attributed to how awfully portrayed Batman is in the Snyderverse with it just going to show how awful Snyder mishandled Batman
The closest main universe Batman has ever gotten to killing Joker was The Killing Joker. Where he strangles him on the last panel after they share that final laugh on the last panel. Imagine if he had killed him then, how many people would still be alive in Gotham?
@SEN batman has stated time and time again that he will not kill. and that is perfectly fine for the type of hero batman is. the people who are REALLY at fault is the justice system and the Gotham City Police Department. since they do not have a no kill rule but never just give the death penalty to the super villains who escapes like every week.
Did batman really strangle/kill the joker in killing joke? Since I've seen another comic saying the opposite, and also the sort of author's note or something.
@@blumae1170 so the original wasn't tied to canon it was a self contained story. The ending was open to interpretation but Rebirth made a lot of the old stories canon again and this was one of them. He strangled him at the end and almost crossed his line then delivered him to Arkham
Alright. Time to defend batman. Batman is bringing them to justice. It is the system that is the problem. They are putting people like the joker on death row.
some criminals have a chance of redemption like Booker T for an example but some need to be put down. Batman seriously believing that he will never be able to stop when like he's supposed to be trained for stuff like that ? DC writers are simply too lazy to make new villain so they keep milking that clown and the batman who laughs is the proof of this.
whenever he says that I always think "man that sounds like he's mentally weak". if he really thinks he'll go berserk after killing a guy who's deserve it then fuck he's weak. the police officers of gotham have guns and those dudes probably are ready to take a life if they need to, but this overfunded billionaire bat is afraid of that? lol. "but he values life too much", then why doesn't he value the people closest to him the most? most of the time he values the villains' lives more than his allies. and don't even get me started if he says "guns are for cowards" or something along those lines
@@xaevius5319Batman is weak and that’s the point. On the outside, he’s a badass super detective who can go toe-to-toe with Darkseid when the guy was only tangentially related to the kidnapping of his son’s corpse. But deep down, he’s still that scared kid in that alley who watched human life ended in a random act of violence. He doesn’t want to be that gun that took his parents. Not even to people who deserve it. It’s his greatest motivator as well as his greatest flaw. It’s part of what makes him an interesting character. In all seriousness, though, Gotham is just as guilty, if not more so than Batman. He puts them away but Gotham won’t put down the Joker? Bane? Killer Croc? That’s on them.
@@cidlufaine9044 you think i don't get that about batman's character? that's not an excuse. all you're giving me is a "woe is me" "cry me a river" backstory that doesn't justify batman having the balls to do what's necessary. "He doesn’t want to be that gun that took his parents." then don't be a super hero. heroes at the end of the day need to do the right thing and be decisive with it. if he can't be a gun so that another gun can't take away another invidividual's parents then he's failing his mission and he's weak. he's a guy that doesn't recognize that he needs to break a few eggs to make the omelette that he wants. it doesn't help too that in all of batman's arsenal very few of it actually helps him make it easier to be able to subdue and supress his foes non lethality. no nets, no tasers, no tranqs, but he'd rather use cqc or a batarang to achieve his goals. also, no. gotham is not as guilty as the person who delibarately and routinely operates outside of the law and he still doesn't want to do the final step in fulfilling his dream for gotham. he doesn't need to rely on gotham and it's justice system, he has the power, time and resources to do it himself and yet he still relies on the corrupt system that he knows is corrupt.
@@cidlufaine9044 i don't. i love batman honestly, i just don't like that part of him and the fact that writers don't want to change it off of the fact that it'll break the status quo. they'd rather go through backbreaking mental gymnastics to convince readers "this is what happens if batman ever kills" like they're parents telling kids a scary made up story to stop them from misbehaving. in this video's comment section i specifically don't like fans who try to justify that even more. saying "that's just how batman is" doesn't really say or do anything. plus how did we "agree" when just looking at the second paragraphs we clearly hold the opposite opinions of each other.
yeah it was a alternate reality that wasn't canon but since the multiverse exists chances are it's out there somewhere. Since the universe that they summon the good heroes from was the same as the injustice one just they stopped Joker earlier in Metropolis before he made it to the sub
Batman worshipping fanbabies are a bane of existence. I would also add the same for Goku, Thor, Hulk, and Flash. Their worshipping fanbabies (not normal fans) are insufferable.
Finally a channel that agrees that batman's way suck! Injustice Superman quote" I took one life to save millions" I had been debating with people of the outcome of injustice 1's and 2. Superman ends being the villain. He was also a victim of the Joker's abused. Batman is just so deranged and a psychopath himself. All he did is aggravate the situation and people around him got hurt the most and while he waits patiently for the Joker's next move. Anyway Good job for pointing this one out.
@whynot1548 it's actually pretty ironic considering Bats HIMSELF said that if he killed so much as ONE criminal he wouldn't be able to stop himself from turning into a bloodthirsty psycho
The only reason Batman killed the Joker was cuz he shit his pants when Superman went BALLISTICS. He got so comfortable with a God that he probably forgot dude could decimate the entire planet without even breaking a SWEAT.
the writers decided to make Supes a ruthless, psychotic dictator to make the point that murdering a psychotic clown who killed your wife and daugthter + 8 million other people. These writers have to commit to the bit 4 some reason
@@jeremyallen5974even more ironic when you realized he did kill a person twice the fact he crushed the penny plunderer with a giant penny and shot him is cannon and he did not regret it he told Robin oh well that's justice
It's to be expected from a dude who starts shitting bricks whenever someone brings up the prospect of killing his villains but callously shrugs whenever another one of his child soldiers is murdered by said bad guys
@@afriendlycampfire260That means literally NOTHING when one considers he'd put a microscopic piece of Kryptonite in Superman's brain but then turn around and leave his villains to a revolving door justice system
Makes me wonder how many innocent throats a person has to slash for Bats to consider them irredeemable..... ah, who the hell am I kidding, that sociopath is more concerned for the health and safety of his villains than he is with the people who are SUPPOSED to be his allies Dude even went so far as to try to lecture the Man of Steel as to how justice is supposed to work even though HIS justice enabled a murderous jagoff to detonate a nuke in Superman's city in the first place
So, he’s willing to take the law into his own hands to be a vigilante because the law is incapable of catching these guys, but he can’t kill one homicidal maniac because the law is incapable of making that choice as well?
Changing the world requires more than one person. Sure, Batman's at fault for not killing but it's also not his fault that they didn't decide to give Joker the death sentence.
@dominocut2963 I agree with this sentiment. Changing the world requires people working together towards a common goal. Gotham and Batman are both at fault for criminals continuing to terrorize the city
There is no need for Batman to kill the Joker, the second or third time he had escaped and was sent to Arkham he would have either been found dead in his jail cell or have been “disappeared’. Amanda Waller doesn’t mess around. Even if Batman doesn’t kill, he would have permanently crippled the Joker by now (like wrecked all his joints, broken his back or given him some traumatic brain injury) so Joker would not be able to harm anyone else.
" Sometimes the action that's right is not always the easiest. " And it's not Batman's unique fault. He does the job a Police Officer would do. Bring suspects alive into custody to stand trial. Everything else is attributed to the failure of the Justice system and the whole reason Batman exists in the first place to keep combatting the already existent violent crime, and to keep on the side of Law enforcement by abiding to a code. The courts need to change. Not Batman. Batman is a hero, not a murderer.
@@brothersofwrath4785 Lol good for you for figuring a way to write the comment without it getting deleted. It's the most intelligent thing I've seen from you so far. You certainly ain't as smart when it comes to debating Batman.
In the Batman voice: I can't kill you but I can break you. Even this would have been a better option than just having him throw them in jail and do nothing.... Besides Batman, despite being one of my favorite all-time superheroes, despite not being super, it has a lot a lot of different problems. If you really start scratching through the service such as he's a billionaires can do whatever they want. Kind of symbol such as corporations can do what they want. Kind of symbol that just a variety of messiness. I mean if they weren't trying to inspire someone to go off and kill people by keeping him from killing people, they still inspire people who are broken and mentally harmed from healing at clinics and with counseling instead of just going on the streets and being a vigilante. But I do love me some Batman
Peacemaker saying this is not a special occasion or exceptional moment, it was a fun scene to watch and completely makes sense for Peacemaker's character to think that. But this has been part of the conversation for YEARS. Hell Jason Todd is an example of making the same criticism of Batman in pop culture. This is not a lucky day for fans critical of Batman, this is just the same super hero meta conversation
This is true but for the first time it's moved outside of just our discussions. It's made it to mainstream where people who don't pay close attention to Batman outside of his movies are pausing and going wait....that actually makes sense
@@whynot1548 What? The majority of hero’s generally don’t kill their villains. Like are you not aware of comic books general Like what I don’t get is WHY Batman is the only hero that gets shit from it
Meta explanation: it sells, the same reason Spider-Man always suffers. The old immovable object vs unstoppable force debate. In-universe: it's better to talk about a specific version of the character. They all have different reasons, but it comes down to Batman believing he, and any other non-official law enforcer have the right to make those decisions. I don't actually remember any instance that he stopped a cop from killing criminals. If there is, I would like to know.
I know I'm late to the party but I disagree with your opinion, the judicial system is more to blame than Batman for Joker. Instead of sending him to death row for all he's done or locking him in a federal facility that's more secure they continue to send him to Arkham where he's proven time and time again he can escape. Plus what about all the officers, staff, and other people who see Joker on a daily basis who could also kill him but don't. Batman is an enforcer of the law not an executioner, the system has failed Gotham in regards to Joker. Batman is a hero because he chooses not to kill his enemies, if he did he'd prove he's no better than his villains who often take this route. For Batman the ends do not justify the means.
@@brothersofwrath4785 My dude WHY do you care so much over a character you know so little about? I care because I actually read the comics and understand the character, you don’t. If Batman is so bad what makes Red Hood? He kills unimportant henchmen by the dozens but never anyone that matters, specially the joker
Batman would stop Joker from being executed if he ever received the death penalty, we all now this. And the whole 'he'd be no better than the villains' line is such crap. Yes, he would be because unlike them he doesn't kill indiscriminately or for some gain, nor does he kill innocent people. He's a billionaire lunatic that likes dressing up and beating people up every night, he doesn't kill because he doesn't want to lose his playmates. And Batman has already put himself above the law by being a vigilante, you can't call him an 'enforcer of the law' when he breaks it every time he goes out to play. The irony about people like yourself that defend this nonsense with all your sophistry is that at the end of the day , its all just a cynical, corporate policy enacted so they can bring villains back over and over and over again.
Ah yes let agree with the bloody criminals who have no form of moral high or authority agais the guy who Risk his life day in and out to save the universe
@Ain't no way you're using countdown as any valid form of reasoning. What next do you want to use the Batman who laughed? If an alternate world in a garbage story Also, where did I lie? Peacemaker...isn't a good person this is a man who would exterminate children if he believed it was for the right thing Your gonna take this man over the guy who saves lives? Want to go support Homelander against Superman next?
@@painvillegaming4119 If you read comics you would see that peacemaker's character is not that kind. We did see in canon that Batman slit Jason's throat with a batarang to prevent him from killing the joker
The non kill rule in the case of Batman can be justified taking on account that he is completely crazy and he is aware of it. If a mentally sane person kills somebody for whatever reason the will probably get over it in time. But Batman instead becomes a monster ( and later an eldricht god) and he is completely aware of it.
Batman isn't bad because he doesn't kill. He's bad because he'd move mountains to protect the likes of Joker and Zsasz from those willing to cross that line. Batman knows these monsters will keep on killing, but cannot will himself to stand aside because "Waaah! All killing bad!" As if the madman who murders thousands for kicks is morally equal to someone that would kill to stop the killing.
cuz he has villains that have done the most heinous shit. the joker will not reform as much as batman believes that he can. even if we say that's the case, batman/bruce wayne doesn't do anything to keep joker and the rest of his rogues gallery in arkham.
Personally I don't think Peacemaker is wrong in his opinion on batman but in Bat's defense that's not his job to peramently end them. Batman's connection to the law is questionable, as initially he's a vigilante with no actual connection to the law unless he chooses to follow it. As a Justice Leaguer he's connected to the US or UN depending on the story as while the league is an independent group, they agree to certain sanctions to be allowed to work as effectively as they do. While it's questionable why Bat's hasn't killed his villains I can't really claim he's entirely responsible for the decisions of literal adults who made the concious decision to committ mass murder. Afterall that's the job of the courts to decide on the punishment for the villains so it's more a failure in Gotham's laws, justice system, and Goverment. That said a large amount of the "he deserves a second chance" is stupid to me. Injustice Bat's gives Harley Quinn a pass for the mass death in Metroplois but get's on Superman for ending the man who literally did it. The guy goes so far to enforce his own ideals of heroism on others that it's baffling that he's willing to give villains 2nd chances but in book hit Red Hood, his own son, harder than he's ever hit the Joker. I'm not making an argument that some Bat's rogues haven't gone too far, they definitely have and the death penalty should be on the table for them but I don't think Batman has the specific responsibility to end them.
To answer both of these comments I don't disagree. Batman mainly puts on the cowl for a lot of varied reasons ranging from vengance to wanting to prevent more deaths similar to what happened to his parents, reasonably speaking he's comitted numerous crimes like Vigilantism, assault, breaking and entering, destruction of public property, tax evasions, etc and reasonably speaking he should be arrested for it. As for why does he even bother? Heck if I know. He does so to make Gotham a better place but many including myself have made the argument that after his initial years Batman is arguably making for capable crimminals. He hacks your phone for your meet up spot? Use a map or a sheet of paper, he beats your grunts up then get superpowered ones to the job, etc. He's doing his best and while it's been effective as Gotham is apprently more safe then it was prior to his emergence he's made more costumed crazies as compensation.
The irony that Batffleck was killing people left and right. However, the biggest thing with Batman is that he does want to kill people, he’s always holding back because he’s not too far from being the worse villain of all time. His one rule is what holds him back and keeps him in check. Joker knows the darkness that’s inside Batman he wants to break him like he did with two face because if he can break Batman then all hope is lost. Also the biggest thing is that Batman wants to perpetuate a fair justice system or else what’s stopping someone else using Batman as an example and start killing other people. The system in Gotham is broken, but he’s trying his best to reinstate it.
And you think this person whos on the cusp of psychopathy should be in charge of delivering justice in gotham. The excuses batman gives for not killing are disturbing and any cop or military soldier who would say those things would be discharged immediatly and possibly investigated. But because its batman its supposed to be "cool and dark".
@@whynot1548or since he’s a billionaire (maybe even higher cause lexcorp and waynetech own 95% of DC’s earths GDP…so probably a Trillionare) invest in the gcpd to have a better police force to get rid of the corruption or bribe them (Ik bribing is a scumbag thing to do but I’m just taking a shot in the dark i don’t know shit about how to fix a corrupt justice system lmao) I never understood why he doesn’t do that as rich as he is he could give every human on DC’s earth a 30+ dollar an hour job
Lol Batman just the delivery guy. Once he delivers the goods it’s up to the government to step in and make sure Joker doesn’t escape. Uncle Sam’s system is what’s flawed in the comics. He’s not the executioner cause he trynna actually enforce laws
@@brothersofwrath4785 Im sorry hit are you dumb. Is apprehending a criminal the same as murdering anyone you seem fit to kill? How cannot you not see this huge difference You have a massive hate boner for a character you know nothing about
@@brothersofwrath4785 My dude do you not see the difference between breaking the law to apprehend criminals and breaking the law to just execute criminals? Do you not get that one is far worse than the other. How commissioner gordon can never work with an Batman like that. Some of the best Batman stories could not exist if he just kills his criminals. Not like you would care since you don’t read them
The dude is supposed to be as wealthy as the kings of Egypt, that's on his punk ass for wasting his fortune moonlighting as his fursona when he SHOULD BE investing his fortune into the city to make it a better place instead of enabling the cycle of violence
I hope the DCU shows batman actually wanting to mentally help joker and the rest of the rougues gallery. Not just put them in jail or put them in Arkham, but actually try and help them. Killing is not an option.
Why is it Batman responsibility to kill the Joker. Why can’t Gotham just sentence him to death? Why blame Batman when you should be blaming the Gotham city government? It feels like shifting the blame.
Absolutely! Gotham and its people fail to take responsibility for themselves. Batman always takes the criminals to Blackgate prison or Arkham Asylum. But the Gotham system never ensures that they will never do harm again. Batman has the right not to be the judge, jury, and executioner. Gotham's issues is Gotham's fault.
@@brentoncaldwell7986 no That argument is self-defeating because Batman is a vigilante thus a law Breaker. Blaming it on country is bullshit when you take justice into your own hands
Batman and Gordon only bends the law, not fully break it. Even though they go out to stop these criminals, they still follow the justice system and its rules at the end of the day.
I think the main culprit is Gotham justice system. And don't give me the BS of Joker calling insanity. Because even Victor Zsasz is a psychopath who i believe killed above 100 people and the system haven't gave him the death sentence. I believe Joker deserves the chair too for all the amount of crimes has done
Now that's a good take, quick question though, How many people has Spiderman inadvertently killed by letting green goblin live, How many people has Superman inadvertently killed by letting Lex live, How many people has daredevil Inadvertently killed, By letting Kingpin live, If people have a problem with Batman's No kill rule, They should have a problem with every hero having a No kill rule
Batman needs horrible high end villians like Joker to give his life purpose, he likes taking on heavy hitters, that's why he keeps them alive. It sucks for everyone elese, but Batman is selfish and evil himself. I don't know why people think he's a good guy, he's making the disease that kills people and then offering himself as the doctor with the cure, he's corrupt to the core.
Everyone's on their moral high horse when criticising batman when they themselves was never put in that situation nor have the courage to pull the trigger; the would be ineffectivity of batman is the reflection of our personality that we're uncomfortably comfronting let alone embracing. This is why he is an effective hero, he brings out the hypocrits, villains, ignorants and demons dwelling within our own psyche and be that embodiment so that we may see with our own eyes that unsightly part of ourselves and realize our own immaturity and inaction so that we may better ourselves.
You are wrong, Batman should be doing something to stop The Joker and the rest of his rogues gallery once and for all, but instead he just puts them in Arkham where they break out and commit more atrocious acts and the same thing happened over and over again, and that is a problem, because good people are suffering as a result.
@@trevturp6891 exactly the point; we the readers like to project what the hero "should" be doing yet as capable as he is, he is flawed just like the rest of us. He becomes the embodiment of our faults that we ourselves can't own let alone respond to. Batman's struggles directly mirrors our society; everyone of us holds others accountable for their mistakes yet we fail to look in ourselves of our shortcomings. It is a never ending endeavor that each individual goes through and much like the so called authorities in Gotham we ourselves externalized our personal responsibilities because we just like to "mind our own business" yet when the would be enforcers fail our expectations we are the first ones to point our fingers of what they should have done yet we ourselves fail to come up with let alone enact.
I love Batman but the no kill rule needs to be written better than it is. Here's something for you all, how would you guys write his no killing rule? Here's how I would write it, the No Kill rule would be because of redemption of course, but also, the law doesn't take kindly to vigilantes, especially those who kill... the redemption part? Either he meets Mr. Freeze, or he sees one of the thugs he hurt, apologizing to his family that he failed to take care of them.
0:46... yes... BUT is not cause he doesnt kill.. you have to remember that the reason batman cant archive anything is not cause of his morals but DC not allowing him to acomplish anything that change the status quo. if batman was allow to kill.. nothing would also change in gotham... batman villians would be comming back from the death left and right becouse Dc would not allow them to stay death the same way Dc would not allow them to actually beat batman.
@@brothersofwrath4785 WHEN WHEN does Red Hood kill anyone that matters. Why do you people give credit to something he never did. Oh also please give me a list of all the iconic Punsiehr villains… I’ll wait. Funny how Spider-man, Superman and Batman have the most iconic villains in comic history. I wonder why…
Batman is justice, he is not the judge, jury, and executioner. When adapted as a hero of hope, his work is to build Gotham, and not just "take out the trash". He does not personally throw villains in Arkham like it's his personal dungeon. He catches the bad guys and hands them to the authorities. He believes in law and order; he is not an anti-hero. Gotham's villains not being executed is not a failure of a vigilante, but the failure of the justice system and the state. Yes, this is all just fiction, and as many of the comments have pointed out, each adaptation does it different and has its merits. I just think that in the last 5 years (bearing in mind this video is 2 years old at this point) the commentary surrounding Batman in-universe has become meta-commentary; It starts sounding like writers riffing off a lampoon rather than pushing the setting of Gotham. Batman doesn't need an update. Gotham does.
"but the failure of the justice system and the state." So, is there any Batman stories that explore this idea? Any at all? And if there are, how can any self-respecting writer still cling to status quo?
Its even funnier when you realize batman has broken his rule in the main timeline and killed a villian twice the same guy the penny plunderer the guy who steals pennies got the death sentence in his first story then got shot and crushed by a giant penny by batman
I thought they just straight up sent the plunderer to death row in the first one, also the first one was in the 40s before the whole no killing rule was established.
Batmans no-kill-rule is an important aspect of his character (When done right). And I think alot of the criticisms it gets is weak or at the fault of the writers. First off: Why is Batman the only one who gets shit for his no-kill-rule? Spider-man doesn't get any flack for not killing the Green Goblin who, just like the joker, has a high body count and kills for fun. Or even better, why is it *Batmans* obligation to kill anyone? Why must he be the judge and executioner? Why hasn't anyone working at Arkham or a GCPD officer killed the joker when they had the chance? Is there blood on their hands too? The state should put the joker on death row, by how dangerous he is. IMO, DC has made the joker way too damn evil. His kill count is way too high, when it really isn't needed. It was better when the joker was a clown themed mob boss with a sick sense of humor. He killed people, but not MILLIONS?! BTAS had the best version of the Joker, if you ask me (It does everything the best). I personally don't think Batman would go out of his way to stop anyone from killing the joker. Or bring him back to life, that's ridiculous. None of that feels in character for him. Are the writers stupid? All comics aren't written equally. There are bad iterations of the character, which is doomed to happen given how massive the Batman franchise is. That's why head canons are great when reading comics. So why doesn't Batman kill? Batman doesn't kill because he really values life. He is so traumatized by his parents' death that he just cannot do it. I think of the scene in Batman Origins when the joker is falling off a rooftop after they just met, and Batman immediately jumps after him. He doesn't even hesitate. He didn't consider whether the joker deserves to live or die. Because Batman has a deep-rooted impulse to save as many lives as possible. It's what makes him interesting. He is the superhero that dresses like a bad guy but in reality is a really nice guy who really values life, almost to a fault. It makes stories ripe for moral dilemmas. Maybe it would be better if batman killed these criminals. But that's the thing, *maybe*. The moral dilemma didn't use to be so black and white. A lot of his villains had redemptions in BTAS. Harley, Mr. Freeze (Batman Beyond), Riddler, penguin, two-face, Ivy and others. They eventually turn back to crime, on their own without Batman interfering (Which kinda debunks the notion that Batman creates his villains). Batman was in support of all his foes turning over a new leaf, because that's the ideal outcome for him. That's why he doesn't kill, because he believes in change. He believes Gotham can change. Superman is often regarded as the symbol for hope, but I think that fits Batman too. How optimistic isn't it for Batman to believe that the shithole that is Gotham City can improve? Batman shouldn't kill, it's one of his most important features as a character. But the writers don't know how to enforce that into a story properly and often misunderstands the core principles of Batman. His no-kill-rule used to be less black and white, but DC couldn't help themselves and made everything so extreme. I don't think Batman's no kill rule is inherently stupid, I just think the writers made it so. Which is a shame because when done right, It's a compelling aspect of Batman's character. Arkham Origins is a good example. Imma go play Arkham Origins brb.
Batman, Rick Sanchez, Tony Soprano, and Tony Montana are not heroes. If you see them that way then you’re totally missing the point. There’s no way Batman should be given as much leeway as he does. He’s caused so much collateral damage it’s insane.
what the hell do those other 3 have to do with batman? one's an egotistical scientist that does anything only for himself, idk tony soprano haven't watched, and montana is a lunatic drug lord. wth do they have to do with a "supposed" beacon of justice. they were never close to that in the first place lol
Stop trying to make batman the punisher. There are several spin off comics if you want that, but batman not killing doesn't make him a bad character or hero. There are many, many reasons he doesn't kill. Also, the argument that he killed in previous comics is BS, as the batman no kill rule was established literally one year after the first appearance of batman.
Why not talk about spiderman does he kill his villians ? Why is it only batman people target for this .There are many other superheroes that refuse to kill
Difference is Spider-Man has never portrayed himself as someone who strikes terror in the hearts of criminals his slogan is " Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man"
The difference is that spider man doesn’t shove his no kill rule down everyone’s throat like batmid and also because New York justice system isn’t corrupted like gotham
I would have to disagree with peacemaker. Yes, an argument could be made that the world might be safer if his rugs gallery were just taken down, but Batman shouldn’t be an executioner. His enemies aren’t just people in costumes causing anarchy, they are living thinking creatures who deserve to face trial for their actions but also have the chance for redemption and rehabilitation. Maybe Batman’s, maybe Batman’s wrong, but as a superhero, he defends all life, even those who don’t deserve it. And you have to remember a fair amount of super villains have actually reformed: Hawkeye, Black Widow, Captain Cold, Harley Quinn, Riddler, Cat-Woman, Winter Soldier, Vision, Gamora, Starlord, Mr. Freeze and so many more have turned their lives around at different points throughout comic book history. All because the heroes they fought chose to show them mercy and compassion. If Batman had just killed his villains, the first time he fought them, they would’ve never gone on to do good. And as nonsensical, it may sound on paper, Batman believes that everyone has the power to change no matter how difficult it may be. (Although, I just have to say it makes no sense that peacemaker would be criticizing Batman for not killing seeing as the DCEU version of Batman does kill.)
@@whynot1548 What are you talking about? In BvS it made no sense because he was indiscriminately killing dozens of random henchmen but not The joker? Or Harley? Or Lex? Or Deadshot? Or any living supervillain in that universe. That was the issue
It makes sense on paper. Most people would not go insane over one death but then there’s the others. How far is too far?Which villains should survive and how many must they kill before the hero has to put them down for good?Honestly how effective are any of the heroes when the same villains do the same plans
In the context of comics, in this regard, every hero is a "pussy" no hero kills their villains because the writers need them to come back, that's the real reason. And even heroes who do kill like Punisher, or Deadpool, or Wolverine, their villains still come back anyways. That or the villain stays dead because they're too uninspired and boring to return. It happens with every. Single. One of them: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, Spider-Man, Iron Man, Captain America, Thor... Yeah, the Joker has killed hundreds, even thousands, but let's look at some other villains: General Zod has killed countless and threatened worlds and that dude escapes the Phantom Zone on the reg. Lex Luthor has harmed and killed hundreds of innocents and he's still able to run for president. Norman Osborn and Venom were both allowed to become "heroes" in the eyes of the public. Magneto and Dr Doom have both threatened and nearly carried out genocide multiple times and both are allowed to run their own countries in peace. Zoom has almost ended entire timelines and he is still a recurring villain. Sinestro betrayed the Green Lantern Corps and made his own Corps to oppose them and kill them and continues to do so, yet the best they do is imprison him. Vandal Savage has threatened the extinction of the human race and has lived since the Neanderthals. One could say he's outstayed his welcome in life but the Justice League has never devoted time to discovering a way to permanently kill him Batman just gets shit because the writers of his stories actually tried to make it a part of his character instead of just brushing it away as "doing the right thing" like every other hero. If you want to read a series of comics that doesn't have this issue and views the lives of superheroes as legitimate stories that have a beginning and end to them, rather than just the same villains returning time after time, I recommend the Earth One series. It's a self contained "universe" where essentially they're like "Here's 3 graphic novels of Green Lantern or Wonder Woman and that's it, that's all you get, their story is complete."
@@trevturp6891 You're on one dude. In the movies maybe. How many fucking comics has Iron Man fought the Crimson Dynamo, Whiplash, or the Mandarin? How many times has Captain America fought Red Skull or Baron Zemo? How many times has Thor fought Loki, Hela, Surtur and the Enchantress? You proved my point. Doesn't matter even if they do kill, the memorable villains ALWAYS come back. Why? Because writing. Batman is just one of the only ones who has an excuse for it written into his character.
Peacemaker is right Morals and law no longer matter when it comes to people like joker, it has gone to far and gothem doesn't execute him and batman only continues the cycle by not killing him His code is respectable he wants to save thoes that can be saved and he doesn't want to be as bad as them but joker needs to be the exception, joker has committed mass genocide which is arguably the worst crime a single person can commit so why is his life worth more then millions of others???? There's no reforming joker he's beyond help Joker literally caused the whole injustice time line because of batman nit putting him down and superman was the one man who said enough was enough yes he may have took it way to far in the end but at the same time superman was 100% right with his philosophy he just carried out his plans in the wrong way but he was still right about the fact people like joker need to be put down Batman and his rule is respectable in a way but its absolutely foolish in gothem
@@brothersofwrath4785 Read Batman Year One Was he protecting the status quo when he was going after the *corrupt politicians and police? He doesn’t protect the status. Readers do. Joker never dies because he is an extremely popular character. Hence why no one kills him, not even Red hood
I couldn't agree more, which is why I am in full support of redhood and the ghostmaker; Batman continues to come off as a big joke in serving justice each time he's no kill rule is bought into question! 🤣😁😉💯🔥👍🏻
Isn’t Red hood the bigger hypocrite because he ALSO doesn’t kill any major villain that matters. At least Batman is consistent. But red hood only kills these unimportant henchmen or villains. I can’t stand people giving red hood credit for something he never did
@Indigo_1001 Well he did try to kill the penguin; but the writer's had it where he survived being shot in the eye because of him being a batman villain, which means he also gains some heavy plot amour due to the fact he's not red hood's archenemy but apart of batman's rogue gallery. 😁😉💯🔥👍🏻
@@vmaninc.761 So red hood is also equally incapable of killing anyone that matters. He is just a bigger hypocrite because he has no issue killing countless nameless henchmen. You people give red hood credit for things he never does and cannot ever do. Batman doesn’t kill the joker. So why on earth does Red hood fiend do it since he has no problem in killing these random goons. How is he better than Batman when he doesn’t make the one thing people expect him to do.
I'll body the Joker, Mad Hatter, Hush, Bane, Penguin, Pyg, Zsasz, etc. and we can discuss morality later during the evening news once everyone is safe. lmfao. Realistically, I don't think Bruce would be able to operate as Batman for very long in Gotham if he had villains to truly match him and to go toe to toe with him night in night out. To stay Batman as long as he has, he would HAVE to body them all eventually or face his untimely death. Good thing they're fictional characters, the world is already a mess.
Any good story ends at some point! There's a beginning, call to action, climax, and end. Comics are garbo because they just never end and repeat themselfs.
he a hero you know they got that code and shit the whole im not going to kill to become them shit dont get me wrong its alot story lines where heros kill but it always been that one mortal choice that everyone that loves superheros asked they self why not they go punisher on they ass. different superhero shows have talked about the subject forever flash dare devil etc...
Well, that could be instinctive squeamishness, which explains why most cops never fire their guns, and only one in 10 WWII gunshots were aimed to kill the enemy. So, non-lethal superheroes are plausible, especially since according to the FBI's statistics, only 10% of crimes and criminals are violent. Sixty percent of the USA prison population are nonviolent first-time-only drug offenders! There is no need to kill stoners, lol!
How killing villains would make Batman a better hero? From a standpoint of a compelling story, how would murderous Batman differ from all the Punisher-look-alikes, those cool and edgy anti-heroes created in a hellhole that were 90s? From ideological standpoint, it does not make any sense for a little boy traumatised by a murder of his parents to just start smashing skulls with crates and breaking necks of his enemies. The Dark Knight Returns and The Killing Joke are those that started this discussion. And they show exactly why he should never kill. Both stories almost explicitly state Bats readiness to kill the Joker, but also they show a failed, broken man, whose world is falling apart and the last resort for him is to break the seal on which everything he believes in was founded. And in the end he doesn't kill his arch-nemesis anyway. He still kills no one. And this is what makes these stories great. They are about a man that stared in a dark void and he resisted it, where so many felt into it. And that's why Batman is eternal and nobody cares who the fuck is Shadowhawk.
It would show he actually GAVE A SHIT about justice, chucklehead. Leaving the murderers, rapists and serial killers that infest his city to an OBVIOUSLY CORRUPT criminal prosecution system isn't 'justice', regardless of how you morally deficient simps try to cut it
"How killing villains would make Batman a better hero?" cuz killing those criminals who keep breaking out and killing other people is better than keep letting them do the same thing again and again? if batman values life so much then doesn't he just end one life to save MILLIONS. batman is more concerned about the life of his villains than he does his allies/friends. I would imagine the punisher came about because he can show how doing the last step isn't a bad thing, you're just finishing the job
Perhaps people prefer Batman over Shadowhawk because he is more famous and familiar. After all, he was published during the Depression era, while the latter was published in the '90s.
My take on Batman is he is so traumatized by the death of his parents, that he physically can’t kill because the moment he kills he sees himself as the same as the person who killed his parents. Imagine seeing yourself as the person who killed your own parents. Batman actually needs to be in Arkham
I love Batman, but his logic is too damn flawed, and that’s why I agree with Jason (Red Hood), getting rid of rapists, murderers, drug dealers, i.e., the truly evil ones. Edit: I just saw that I’m the 666th like lol
So why on earth doesn’t Red Hood kill the joker. Doesn’t that make him a bigger hypocrite? And if Batman cachets and apprehends those criminals don’t they get the death sentence?
Batman does a field job comparable to that of the police. So we can compare his code to that of real-life police. In most cases, police aren't supposed to kill anyone. That's the protocol. If someone is so evil, the court decides whether to grant the death penalty or not. The courts of Gotham are seriously failing because it takes a lot less than what Joker has done to get you the death penalty. I know a death penalty case where a man killed three women and did all sorts of fucked up sexual things to their bodies and threw one body away as trash or something. That's way less than what Joker has done. Also, Batman's code states that he can never kill. Police in real life are allowed to kill in very rare situations. Sometimes, police need to make decisions on the fly that rarely include whether to kill someone or not. So, Batman's code is probably based on stupid reasons, but it's mostly realistic.
How is this a "great" take on batman? It's been repeated milions of times and has become memefied, it's nothing original, and it doesn't make you smart if you make such an argument that has literally been already adressed in batman stories themselves to death.
Why don’t we ever blame Arkham Asylum’s terrible security. Batman does his job of putting these maniacs in prison. Batman is not judge, jury, nor executioner, but also with the shit the joker has done how has bro not been executed💀
I disagree None of this is Batman’s fault he’s in the morally right place. If anything the city of Gotham ought to just sentence the Joker and the rest of them to the electric chair. The responsibility for all this shouldn’t fall on the heroes
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I read fist of the north star as a kid right after reading the punisher n batman crossover comic and I have to agree. Bruce is not only insane but is a terrible hero.
My cousin is a hardcore batman fan and even he knows that Raoh, Souther, and Kaioh needs to be put down without hesitation. Now Bruce can't even lay a finger on those 3 but if he could he still wouldn't put em down.
If kenshiro walked into Gotham and had 24 hours to put in work criminals and villains would drop like flies as if they got black bagged by the CIA.
I do not agree with it. It’s not Batman’s responsibility to be judge, jury and executioner. He trained his body and mind to peak human performance. Outfitted himself with the best non lethal weapons, armor and vehicles to save the day. If Gotham City used the death penalty he would break into a prison to prevent a condemned criminal from getting executed.
Batman subdues and neutralizes threats to society. Society decides what’s to be done with those threats. So society are the ones to blame for the threats that end up harming them time and time again.
Not Batman. Bruce Wayne gives his blood, sweat and tears for Gotham City, he doesn’t have to also shed other people’s blood for Gotham City.
@@jeremiahbarnes6313 nope. None of the people who think like you deserve to have Batman save your sorry asses in the first place. Everything Batman does for Gotham City is pro bono. How dare you bunch of insufferable ingrates act like you have any right to ask even more of him!
If you think violent criminals deserve to get their throats s!it, stop playing so many video games and get your f*t ass in a gym. Get in shape. Master Mixed Martial Arts. Train with a Seal Team and go kick some a$$ yourself.
If you’re really about that life.
@@superbrian7997 Brother at this point ,I'd fuckin throw the joker into a god damn golden experience requiem death loop
I love how in Injustice Batman immediately turns his back on Superman for killing the Joker but is more than happy to team up with Harley Quinn who helped plan and carry out the murder of Lois, her unborn child and everyone in Metropolis. She gets a pass for blowing up an entire city but Superman is a irredeemable monster for killing the one responsible.
Hypocrisy at its finest
She had a redemption also Superman went on a murder spree killing multiple of Bruce's closest friends including Green Arrow and Black Canary (I know she's still alive but you get my point).
@@gamingwithcori8521 sure a redemption arc in a short time period. Why don't we give darkseid a redemption arc then?
@@brothersofwrath4785 Darkseid has killed more people than Joker can imagine the Joker will become a good guy before Darkseid does. He's literally the God Of Evil. He didn't recruit her immediately it took him nearly 5 years to trust her. Even then, Harley hasn't really killed people Joker is the one who regularly kills.
@@gamingwithcori8521 Her “redemption” primarily consists of people just forgetting what she’s done. She’s never punished. She never has to face any consequences and beyond Martha and Jonathan Kent, no one ever seems to call her out for her crimes. Superman is Batman’s best friend and he completely overlooks the fact that the only reason Superman is doing what he’s doing is BECAUSE of Harley. If Batman wanted to save Superman maybe putting the woman who killed his wife and child on his team might not be the best idea.
Batman not killing the joker makes sense back when the joker was more of a clown themed mob boss who while dangerous, still had some restraint. Nowadays however with him being a gleefully irredeemable monster who goes out of his way to be as evil as possible just makes batman come off as downright stupid at best and outright enabling and bad at worst.
Precisely
Came here to say this. And realistically this is a problem with the writing, and the eternal nature of comics. The REAL reason why Batman won't kill the Joker is because he's too popular to be killed off. And the writers gotta keep people invested so they have to make Joker more of a threat each time, and it got out of hand. I also blame The Dark Knight for it because it gave us the anarchist Joker who doesn't care about money and wants to have this dance with Batman for eternity. That movie changed Joker forever and the comics had to keep up with that and outdo it. When in truth, the Joker was originally just a mob boss who wanted money and power and it was just his methods that were comedic in nature, killing people by literally making them laugh to death and all that. Seriously does nobody remember when Joker tried to cheese the copyright laws by putting his fucking face on fish?? That's classic Joker! Not this disfigured overly sadistic, animalistic and ghoulish demon that he's been made out to be nowadays. He's supposed to be a mad clown. He's supposed to have style, some class, and actually be funny. His mame is LITERALY The *JOKER* ffs! That's why I love BTAS Joker, The Batman (2004) Joker and Brave and the Bold Joker. Yeah, they're criminals, but they still have some restraint and they're entertaining and funny. Save the overly dark and twisted stuff for the very end like Batman Beyond did. Let Joker go unhinged like never before but then kill him. Batman Beyond : Return of the Joker gave us the most dangerous, monstrous and sadistic Joker since The Killing Joke but they played it as the endgame Joker story. Like "Yeah this is the last thing he'll ever do".
is he stupid?
That's why on injustice (at least the movie) i side not with superman, but wonder woman. She sides with superman when he kills the joker for all the obvious right reasons... but when superman loses it and becomes a villain she tries to stop him. She is the balance between the two.
Batman is a terrible hero.
And batman would still say "he can be rehabilitated" I'm pretty sure that after killing millions of people and nuking a city is a pretty good sign that someone can't be redeemed
Honestly the rant makes more sense when you remember that in the dceu he has somehow killed all these goons directly and indirectly in bvs. Yet somehow didn’t kill joker, dead shot and all these other villains in suicide squad because reasons.
Yeah I love how this is a Batman that was eventually okay with killing but he didn’t kill joker the multiple times they met after Robin’s death and all he did was break his teeth, which is why he has those metal grills.
If u were paying attention to the production ud know that Snyders Batman started out as more or less like the classic Batman. But after 20 years his dogmatic morality inevitably betrayed him and he finally had a moral breaking point
Because goons will be forgotten and replaced, whereas the writers need these classic villains to keep writing their stories xd
Same can be said for any other version of the batman where they established the no kill rule yet still kills just because.
Um no, dude.
Batfleck spent 20 years NOT killing bad guys. He became a killer shortly after Superman showed up. This is well known, dude
I feel like IRL the Joker would cause laws to be reformed especially in Injustice because no way the public would just be OK with him going back to Arkham.
ESPECIALLY after the skid mark DETONATED A FUCKING NUKE in the middle of Metropolis
I’m not really into Batman nor know much about this universe, but I’m wondering is how tf does Joker keep getting out of jail? Matter of fact does Gotham NOT do death Penalties!?
@@jamescadet4450
Joker is popular. There is no in-universe reason that makes sense. It isn't like only Batman could kill the Joker.
@@jeremyallen5974yeah, A FUCKING NUKE!!! Batman was even more terrible in Injustice.
Here’s the simplest example.
Batman when Joker kills metropolis:😊😊
Batman when Superman kills Joker:😡😡😡😡
If anything the city of Gotham should just sentence Joker to the electric chair or ship him off to some remote prison MORE SECURE THAN ARKHAM
It’s not Batman’s fault it’s the judges in Gotham
Why hasn't gotham's justice system executed joker, hell the other of batman's villans.
Because Gotham is a criminal sanctuary city
Because of plot armor, it's not Batmans fault that the writers are obsessed with the Joker
Because he's a fictional character, really is not that deep
Considering Gotham is a major urban area, its likely its population is quite liberal in its politics, meaning it likely doesn't have a death penalty.
@@DragoEpyon I wonder what state Gotham is supposed to be in. One would think after a while the super criminals would draw the attention of a higher authority that would have more pull on the issue.
I love how DC can just poke fun at Batman even though *he's their top selling IP*
Cuz it's true af 😂😂😂 I would be mad at Batman if he was real
Shows how dogshit their catalog REALLY is that a delusional rich prick who plays footsies with murderers and sociopaths is considered their best character
DC actually didn't want that line in at first but James gunn wouldn't budge. I'm glad it was said because fuck batman honestly. Also batman only sells the most cos they constantly push him because there's a shit ton of batman fanboys at dc
Imagine your parent got kill by any of the The bad guys and batman still put them in prison and they escape a week later.
@@elmichellangelo Yet if one took justice into their own hands Bats would see to it that said person would spend the rest of their life in prison
What Gotham actually needs is a "Punisher"
The Punisher isn't a better solution either. He'd be even worse than Batman. At least Batman will show you mercy, but the Punisher will just kill someone who is stealing to feed their family. Even Frank himself admits he isn't right in the head and no one should aspire to be like him. He's the exact opposite of Batman, someone who'll just kill all the criminals, even the smaller ones.
@@mcgclockhe very much is unless you want to include Garth (P)ennis' shit. Classic punisher actually cracks punchlines and kills when necessary.
@@mcgclockno, he would not. I see you never read punisher comic in your life. He goes after the most sick and depraved people in the world and puts end to them permanently. Yes his methods are more extreme but it works.
@@ultrainferno.True, I haven't read much Punisher but he has many flaws regardless. He has more casualties than Batman and doesn't seem to even care about them. He's insane, maybe more than even Batman. He likes killing people and sometimes kills them in needlessly brutal ways. He unintentionally inspires cops to be more violent. He causes a lot of tragedy because he only cares about serving punishment instead of looking at whether the criminals can be redeemed and rehabilitated.
The Punisher ironically represents what is wrong with the current broken justice system of America. Crime is a very nuanced subject that can't be just solved through killing and violence.
@@mcgclock we talk about Garth Ennis' version of punisher or some other?
Joker - Go ahead and kill me Bats!
Batman - You know I won't kill, but I have a friend named Diana who would love some alone time with you.
Joker - HA HA I'd love to meet...oh this isn't go to end well.
Wonder Woman - Don't worry Joker, my uncle will make sure you're well taken care of.
If it's the Diana who is Zeus' daughter, this gives an alternative to killing but sends him into the afterlife anyway. Not killing if he's sent physically to Tartarus.
According to Batman’s logic, everyone who has ever killed someone in self-defense is a murderer who belongs in prison.
Edit: Gotta love all the batfans who can't handle any criticism of their lord and savior.
Batman belongs in Arkham
@@brothersofwrath4785 Well he's not insane I wouldn't kill anyone either it's not like I'm Superman someone shoots me I'd die. So if I killed anyone even Joker the GCPD and JL would be trying to kill me.
@@gamingwithcori8521 He would rather sacrifice his under age meatshield than let his giggly homolover lose a strand on his hair. That logic contradicts itself. The vigilantes trying to kill someone who shot Joker in defense makes no sense on any ground
@@gamingwithcori8521 batman saved Joker from a burning building
That is insanity on many levels
welcome to comics were death not permanent if Batman kills the joker he will come back to life like it was Tuesday
This is why Rorschach is my favorite hero. He used to be Batman but after the little girl, he becomes Peacemaker, or a more crazy
The Question.
We definitely need a Question show.
@@Blerdcalibur I loved Question and Green Arrow in Justice League Unlimited. I also felt bad for Superman, though it wasn't outwardly said he was having a mental break down inside. With the non powered heros thinking he was about to snap and go full dictator. That must have made he feel like a monster inside.
No offense dude, but Rorschach in the comics is a racist, homophobic and misogynistic psychopathic creep who admired the Comedian and even defended him when the physical and sexual abuse that Comedian did to the original Silk Specter and all the war crimes he did in his life, Alan Moore himself said that Rorsarch disgusted him :^
He was actually created to mock Question and other objectivists creations of Steve Ditco.
@@C0ldIron as a mockery he's a failure. Him being the only person to have an actual moral system beyond utilitarian babbling makes him the only actual hero in the story. He's made out to be a schizo but in the end he's completely right about all of his conspiracies. Most of all though, the attempt at giving him "bad politics" just comes off flat because all his opinions are based on his upbringing, substance and physical abuse would give someone a distaste for the vector that caused it.
If the series finale isn't an episode of Bat-Mite entering the real world and have him pleading with the HBO Max executives not to cancel Peacemaker, we riot!
yoooooooooo lmao what a reference damn near jumped out of my seat then remembered that awesome Teen Titans episode
@@Blerdcalibur Sounds like a reference to BTATB
What's worse is that batman is willing to kill his teammates who also believe in his morals
'Morals' is a stretch considering Bats cares more about his villains health and well being than that of his own allies
Both are completely false. Batman cares for his teammates very much and his plans weren’t lethal. They were altered by ra’s to kill them. Batman is willing to kill, but only as the absolute last result. The same criticisms over and over by many uninformed people have made them null.
@@whitebeans824would he be willing than why is joker alive?
Actually, his contingency plans were meant to incapacitate not kill. So he treats them about the same
@@whitebeans824 nah batman literally saved joker from a burning building
The real answer is that comics have to keep selling.
They can easily make you criminals, unless the writers are just butt
@@blazekush7No because Batman’s rogues are way too iconic to be replaced, and only nerds buy comics.
This is how u know most of Snyders critics were lying with their phony outrage. They acted like the No Killing thing was a sacred rule that somehow didnt apply to other heroes.
No shit
@@whynot1548
It’s to make the story work
If Batman kills these random goons why on earth isn’t he killing the joker? Or Harley? Or Lex? Or Deathstroke? Or Deadshot? Or any living popular villain
That’s why he doesn’t kill, for these characters to keep existing in the story
There’s actually a scarecrow comic where Batman fights the scarecrow and gets hit with the fear toxin, which makes him see what Gotham would be like without him, but instead of seeing his beloved city in ruins overrun with crime, he sees a peacefully thriving city that’s better off without him, deep down Batman knows he’s not entirely good for Gotham, and even though Batman comes out the victor he’ll always have that doubt in his mind if he’s really doing the right thing by continuing his work.
Most of batman's rogues would not be doing their shtick if not for Batman around
In the BTAS (idk about the episode), Batman actually contemplates about his role in Gotham's Society and his War on Crime. He even remarks that all he has now achieved is that being a Pop Cultural Icon.
See this is why Scarecrow is Such a Cold Ass Villain 🔥
@@brothersofwrath4785 In one comic in an alternate universe Bruce Wayne's parents never died which meant no Batman. Gotham was riddled with crime and all of his rogues became villains for a different reason except The Joker but there was a gang called the Joker gang.
@@gamingwithcori8521 And Ra's Al Ghul almost destroyed gotham
Reminds me of Daredevil season 2... the confrontation between Daredevil and Punisher...
Punisher: You hit them, they get back up... I hit them, they stay down... You're a half measure, a person who can't finish the job.
He SHOULD have said "You're just a punk playing dress up. You beat these losers up and leave them to a justice system that mocks your beliefs with every drop of innocent blood that they allow these people to spill. You really want to make a difference? You start putting these sick bastards down like the animals that they are."
@@jeremyallen5974 precisely
Punisher was the opposite extreme, but he was more right than Daredevil
The joker is The walking embodiment of plot armor.
Let's just say Batman wont kill him. Ok, fine.
In what world does joker donthe stuff he has done and the cops just don't dome him right there. Batman has him tied up hanging from a lamp and a cop who lost friends or family or just saw the stuff he's done doesn't just empty the shotgun in his squad car into jokers face.
He is the most recognizable person on DC earth, how is he not just shot by every gang member, thug, mobster, cop, or citizen on sight?
Because plot armor.
Even then, with the amount of bombings, hijacking of missiles, and even the theft of a nuke in injustice. The US would've marked him as the highest priority target since Bin laden! There would be a massive military occupation of Gotham, the FBI, CIA, and GCPD would be spending sleepless nights cross referencing, profiling, and evaluating the location, and next move of joker. There would be top security to the point where you couldn't even blink without clearance. There'd be collusion with mobsters and other villains like Carmine Falcone and Two-face to turn the mob against Joker including exposing information on his hideouts, operations, and any rackets he runs. Hell, the IRS would be roped into the hunt as they could catch onto any assets joker owns based on his tax returns
Funny,Batman is the one who the most with bullshit plot armor compared to the joker.
how many times did Batman bring back super villains back to life and still managed to just taking out one by one of his own team and justice league like why if you’re not to realize that Superman man of steel heat many times how he destroyed the justice league is why he holds back on dark sideSuperman versus the elite. It’s a movie look it up Superman alone can take out the justice league because he’s holding back just like wonder woman to defeated his ass no joke, plot armor you guys made up.
Joker knows batman won't kill him hence the atrocities real toxic relationship, in a panel where punisher met joker he calls batman a fool for stopping him from killing joker
The most disgusting thing is Bruce fought with Frank to save the Joker.
The fox family as a whole is dealing with the fact that lucius fox was brutalized by punchline, and Luke's sister was poisoned during A day I think. So joker atleast indirectly hurt like fox.
I don't know about Dick Grayson, the Joker stated that out of the Robins he hates him the most because he's the one Robin he couldn't break
Dick's a weird one because Joker has brutalized him, but he's never broken him like Jason. What is the definition of Joker breaking someone? He also had Dick shook during Death of the family when he thought Alread was dead, and Joker had cut off his face
Agreed, Batman is not a great hero by letting him live time and time again. From the first few times you beat joker, put him away, and he breaks out again to mess more shit up again it’s okay to not want to kill him. But after a certain point or line you HAVE to realize there’s only ONE option left. Batman can kill joker and retire, he could kill joker and put himself in jail for it. But the main obvious choice is that you can just kill joker and continue being Batman not killing anyone. Maybe taking a break will help with that, maybe punishing himself will help with NOT killing more villains. I understand that it is IMPOSSIBLE for Batman to have the same feelings towards killing villains after this has happened, but not killing villains unless it’s necessary is fine. Batman’s no killing tule shouldn’t apply to joker or people like him. I’d imagine Harley would need to get killed after as well. But that’s just how I see it.
Oh and I just remembered! You don’t even have to kill them. Just cripple them or beat the shit out of them. Immobilize their ability to murder people. Cut his hands off. And apparently death penalties don’t exist in THE MOST CRIME RIDDEN city in the world. Great Video!
Or even better! JUST LOBOTOMIZE THAT DAMN CLOWN ALREADY. Hell, an evil Superman did it in the JL cartoon, and it worked!
Joker chose to break out of prison when all he could’ve done was just give up. And I just wish that there were no Joker fans at all if he exists as a villain.
Horrible video
batman is my favorite superhero.
But, i will admit that some people have to be killed his no kill rule is...i don't think it's terrible i just think it's incredibly flawed
Yeah batman is my favorite as well and his no kill rule is definitely flawed but it's also what makes him the greatest superhero imo. The ability to be just no matter if ur good or bad it's what makes him a hero. At the end of the day it's up to the law to make a decision on his villians fate especially joker.
It's too absolute. To the point of unrealistic.
Christopher Nolan's version made more sense. Because the "One Rule" is more like a general rule of thumb than an absolute.
Than he cant justify being an outlaw crime fighter in any capacity. Regardless of whether or not he kills. That goes for every comic hero
It's all a matter of weighing lives
Namely, the life of a mass murdering sociopath VS the lives of the innocent people and their families who will INEVITABLY die if the scumbag is allowed to continue menacing the streets
@@makhiswinging302 No dude. The Law will condemn Joker as mentally insane. Batman out of all people should know that sh*t. And some people like Bane, Scarecrow and many others is an irredeemable villains with a smarter and powerful power more than average Prison Guards/Police and etc. If he want to abide by his no killing rule then consider to make them never been able to do crimes again at the very least.
Batman from Tim Burton, Joel Schumacher, and Zack Snyder are probably the only ones that have no problems with killing their enemies.
What about Zack Synder?
@@aye1972 yeah, him too
So many people would have lived if Batman just simply kill Joker.
They made up the Batman who laughs to give them a reason to put up with this bs
@@JustVarnge non Canon crap
@@JustVarnge qnd batman who laugh its trash,even ownman is better
He's a fictional character for fuck sake
Comic books don't kill villains for the same reason they don't kill heroes, they need them around to milk money out of them, otherwise how else can you keep a franchise indefinitely if you are constantly killing off the bad guys. And in case someone dies, they can always bullshit their way back with the "Alternate Reality" crap.
0:17 How's it Batmans fault and not instead a failure of the Justice system? Seriously someone answer that
Coz he is a law breaking vigilante
@brothersofwrath4785 so is um let's see here...
EVERY SINGLE HERO IN EXISTENCE.
@@robbiesrevelations3096
He is already taking it upon himself to fix what the law fails to do
He gave himself the privilige
You cannot blame the state
@brothersofwrath4785 yeah I can. All he does is put them in jail. What happens when they in jail is who's job again
@@brothersofwrath4785 that's right, the state's
If Bats is not going to kill them, he should lobotomize them.
That's the justice lord Superman thing.
Lol wtf
@@ztk1138 Instant Lobotomy!
@@ztk1138 The Justice League episode? OK. All his rouges were in Arkham, not posing the slightest threat and were actually working as productive members of society.
r/batmanarkham them
I agree, I just watched Batman Hush a few days ago. In that portrayal, His actions don't deter criminals, instead they motivate criminals to be bigger, stronger, and better villains who become even more evil and more creative in their crimes in an attempt to get revenge on Batman for beating them up and throwing them in Arkham. His code puts other people in danger, but makes Batman feel morally superior to the villains he fights. His philosophy isn't really merciful, it seems self-serving to Batman's ego more than anything, it seems that the good that Batman wants to protect is not the lives of people, not even the lives of those closest to him, but his own sense of morality by which he judges everyone else. Batman is portrayed in that film as being superior to everyone else for simply maintaining the status quo of Gotham city and holding his code above all else including the lives of people he's supposed to care about. For some reason he thinks that by continuing his efforts of beating up bad guys, stopping their crime sprees at the last minute, and sending them to Arkham asylum where they come out worse than they ever were before they showed up there in the first place, that he's actually saving these villains, when in fact he's making them bigger, tougher, and more evil than ever. He does the same thing and expects different results. The definition of insanity.
Black adam litetally said the same
It's not just Batman either, it's also Gotham city's government. I mean I get it if Batman doesn't want to kill these homicidal maniacs. He's a vigilante. He doesn't have the authority to execute anybody anyway. If he did he'd be commiting a crime. The perogative to administer the death penalty belongs to the proper governing authorities in Batman's city, but they don't seem to be able to do their job properly. In fact they have to depend on Batman to catch these criminals. It's a running theme that Gotham's police force is corrupt and grossly incompetent. It's no wonder that Batman had to take certain matters into his own hands. He's like a wild wild west outlaw.
@@antoinewilson1026 batman is already breaking the law by just being a vigilante
@@brothersofwrath4785ironic batman got the 1 guy who was keeping the villians locked away in arkum asylum kicked out and banned from Gotham for being to aggressive sure scarecrow Harley quin and poison ivy are considered meh enemies of batman does not mean you can ignore the hundreds if not thousands killed by Harley (this is before she was redeemed btw) scarecrow tortured the same amout if not more then Harley with his fear gas poison ivy I just know she must have a higher body count then the 2 before.
Even as a huge Batman fan, I have to agree. Batman IS mentally ill, at the very least. Underneath all the training, gadgets, and experience, he is still that scared, traumatised little boy, reacting and thinking as such.
That's what he his - a broken man, trying his best, which is not enough. What made him Batman is what also keeps him from becoming what his city needs - someone that does what needs to be done.
He does a bit, but it's not enough, never enough. He never finishes the job.
This why I love Wolverine the most, he show no mercy for most of his enemie and would kill them.
Stab stabby stab! I'm a hairy furry animal man. Why doesn't Jean want me?! Roaaaaah!
@CozyRealmDream
Mariko did
This video is old as fuck so I don't see anyone seeing this comment but I'm tired of the "Batman should kill" argument with this, as there are plenty of reasons why this doesn't work, with the worst part being how most media mishandles giving an answer as to why this can't happen, with the closest thing that shows an actual good answer to this not even being a Batman thing but Netflix's Jupiter Rising show and Super Crooks
However, think about this: If Batman were to kill the Joker and never kill again, what type of precedent does that set for the rest of Gotham, to other heroes? What will they do when they find out that, in certain situations, killing is alright? How long will it take before Gotham is plagued by a much worse situation with murderous vigilantes running around killing whomever they believe is deserving?
Now yes, this can lead to some good but what about situations involving characters like Mr Freeze, Harley Quinn (a victim of abuse who was manipulated into becoming a villain), Catwoman, Deadshot (who's just trying to support his kids), tragic villains with serious mental health problems who can be rehabilitated but can't anymore because they're dead, or even just the random homeless person doing some shit just to survive.
What about with other heroes? How long before other heroes who saw the example Batman set by killing the Joker start playing judge, jury, and executioner with little regard for circumstance and even potentially putting other people's lives at risk to get the job done. We're already having problems like this with the police in our own world, so just imagine that with lawless vigilantes with superpowers that we can't hold accountable nearly as much as we can the police.
And don't even tell me that Batman killing wouldn't have that much of an impact. Not only is he one of the main heroes for DC in real life, but he's a major big deal in-universe as well with him being not only the protector of one of the most crime ridden cities in the world and leader of an entire bat family (and the international Batman Incorporated) but he's also a founding member of the Justice League with plenty of importance in the DC Universe.
Plus, as several others in the comments said, the problem also falls upon the courts and judicial system as they keep failing and letting the joker get away with all of this. Batman isn't the one responsible as there are actual good reasons as to why he can't kill, it's the justice system of Gotham itself that keeps sending him back to Arkham and allowing him to escape again and keeps sending him back to Arkham, and no the explanation of "oh, they can't be charged since Batman brought them in as a vigilante" bit from the B:TAS episode Trial wouldn't work. Just watch some lawyer reaction videos to it, yes there are some, and they'll explain why this doesn't work.
The only universes where the argument in Peacemaker makes sense are ironically enough his own and others like it where Batman does kill or atleast makes sure they die as, if he does already kill, then why doesn't he kill the Joker, and this can be attributed to how awfully portrayed Batman is in the Snyderverse with it just going to show how awful Snyder mishandled Batman
Remember Christian Bale Bruce refusing to kill the farmer who killed his neighbor and then murder more than 30 ninjas 5 minutes later?
The closest main universe Batman has ever gotten to killing Joker was The Killing Joker. Where he strangles him on the last panel after they share that final laugh on the last panel. Imagine if he had killed him then, how many people would still be alive in Gotham?
@SEN
batman has stated time and time again that he will not kill. and that is perfectly fine for the type of hero batman is.
the people who are REALLY at fault is the justice system and the Gotham City Police Department.
since they do not have a no kill rule but never just give the death penalty
to the super villains who escapes like every week.
Did batman really strangle/kill the joker in killing joke? Since I've seen another comic saying the opposite, and also the sort of author's note or something.
@@blumae1170 so the original wasn't tied to canon it was a self contained story. The ending was open to interpretation but Rebirth made a lot of the old stories canon again and this was one of them. He strangled him at the end and almost crossed his line then delivered him to Arkham
This is why Rorschach is my favorite hero. He used to be Batman but after the little girl, he becomes Peacemaker, or a more crazy
The Question.
@@chongwillson972 Doesn't batman literally save the joker on multiple occasions?
Remember when The Punisher was two seconds away from shooting him in the face?
Alright. Time to defend batman.
Batman is bringing them to justice. It is the system that is the problem. They are putting people like the joker on death row.
Like the guy below said, Then bruce is still at fault because he CLEARLY knows that by now and STILL gets them sent to the same place anyway.
some criminals have a chance of redemption like Booker T for an example but some need to be put down. Batman seriously believing that he will never be able to stop when like he's supposed to be trained for stuff like that ? DC writers are simply too lazy to make new villain so they keep milking that clown and the batman who laughs is the proof of this.
whenever he says that I always think "man that sounds like he's mentally weak". if he really thinks he'll go berserk after killing a guy who's deserve it then fuck he's weak. the police officers of gotham have guns and those dudes probably are ready to take a life if they need to, but this overfunded billionaire bat is afraid of that? lol. "but he values life too much", then why doesn't he value the people closest to him the most? most of the time he values the villains' lives more than his allies. and don't even get me started if he says "guns are for cowards" or something along those lines
@@xaevius5319Batman is weak and that’s the point. On the outside, he’s a badass super detective who can go toe-to-toe with Darkseid when the guy was only tangentially related to the kidnapping of his son’s corpse. But deep down, he’s still that scared kid in that alley who watched human life ended in a random act of violence. He doesn’t want to be that gun that took his parents. Not even to people who deserve it. It’s his greatest motivator as well as his greatest flaw. It’s part of what makes him an interesting character.
In all seriousness, though, Gotham is just as guilty, if not more so than Batman. He puts them away but Gotham won’t put down the Joker? Bane? Killer Croc? That’s on them.
@@cidlufaine9044 you think i don't get that about batman's character? that's not an excuse. all you're giving me is a "woe is me" "cry me a river" backstory that doesn't justify batman having the balls to do what's necessary. "He doesn’t want to be that gun that took his parents." then don't be a super hero. heroes at the end of the day need to do the right thing and be decisive with it. if he can't be a gun so that another gun can't take away another invidividual's parents then he's failing his mission and he's weak. he's a guy that doesn't recognize that he needs to break a few eggs to make the omelette that he wants. it doesn't help too that in all of batman's arsenal very few of it actually helps him make it easier to be able to subdue and supress his foes non lethality. no nets, no tasers, no tranqs, but he'd rather use cqc or a batarang to achieve his goals.
also, no. gotham is not as guilty as the person who delibarately and routinely operates outside of the law and he still doesn't want to do the final step in fulfilling his dream for gotham. he doesn't need to rely on gotham and it's justice system, he has the power, time and resources to do it himself and yet he still relies on the corrupt system that he knows is corrupt.
@@xaevius5319 I like how we agree but only one of us seems to hate Batman lmao
@@cidlufaine9044 i don't. i love batman honestly, i just don't like that part of him and the fact that writers don't want to change it off of the fact that it'll break the status quo. they'd rather go through backbreaking mental gymnastics to convince readers "this is what happens if batman ever kills" like they're parents telling kids a scary made up story to stop them from misbehaving. in this video's comment section i specifically don't like fans who try to justify that even more. saying "that's just how batman is" doesn't really say or do anything.
plus how did we "agree" when just looking at the second paragraphs we clearly hold the opposite opinions of each other.
8:34 wasnt that part a dream sequence.. (of Superman under the dream kryptonite or... something showing an alternate reality but not really canon ..?)
yeah it was a alternate reality that wasn't canon but since the multiverse exists chances are it's out there somewhere. Since the universe that they summon the good heroes from was the same as the injustice one just they stopped Joker earlier in Metropolis before he made it to the sub
Batman worshipping fanbabies are a bane of existence. I would also add the same for Goku, Thor, Hulk, and Flash. Their worshipping fanbabies (not normal fans) are insufferable.
Finally a channel that agrees that batman's way suck! Injustice Superman quote" I took one life to save millions" I had been debating with people of the outcome of injustice 1's and 2. Superman ends being the villain. He was also a victim of the Joker's abused. Batman is just so deranged and a psychopath himself. All he did is aggravate the situation and people around him got hurt the most and while he waits patiently for the Joker's next move. Anyway Good job for pointing this one out.
Well let's be honest, the idea that Superman becoming a homicidal maniac/world conqueror, because of one concious kill is really unbelievable.
@whynot1548 it's actually pretty ironic considering Bats HIMSELF said that if he killed so much as ONE criminal he wouldn't be able to stop himself from turning into a bloodthirsty psycho
The only reason Batman killed the Joker was cuz he shit his pants when Superman went BALLISTICS. He got so comfortable with a God that he probably forgot dude could decimate the entire planet without even breaking a SWEAT.
the writers decided to make Supes a ruthless, psychotic dictator to make the point that murdering a psychotic clown who killed your wife and daugthter + 8 million other people. These writers have to commit to the bit 4 some reason
@@jeremyallen5974even more ironic when you realized he did kill a person twice the fact he crushed the penny plunderer with a giant penny and shot him is cannon and he did not regret it he told Robin oh well that's justice
The greatest irony of Batman is that he is more willing to kill his friends than his enemies.
@@C0ldIron I know it’s infuriating
It's to be expected from a dude who starts shitting bricks whenever someone brings up the prospect of killing his villains but callously shrugs whenever another one of his child soldiers is murdered by said bad guys
“Neutralize, not kill”
Remember? Ha made those contigency plans to STOP the justice league if they go rogue, not kill them
@@afriendlycampfire260That means literally NOTHING when one considers he'd put a microscopic piece of Kryptonite in Superman's brain but then turn around and leave his villains to a revolving door justice system
Makes me wonder how many innocent throats a person has to slash for Bats to consider them irredeemable..... ah, who the hell am I kidding, that sociopath is more concerned for the health and safety of his villains than he is with the people who are SUPPOSED to be his allies
Dude even went so far as to try to lecture the Man of Steel as to how justice is supposed to work even though HIS justice enabled a murderous jagoff to detonate a nuke in Superman's city in the first place
Exactly
Yeah man, its not like he's a fictional character that has a no kill rule because of comics regulations
That’s not true, he was against Superman when he was executing numerous criminals in prison
@@Indigo_1001 Why are you so butthurt over Supes doing something Batman should have done YEARS ago?
Look up Batman/Punisher: Deadly Knights, and whiteness how Batman Saves the Joker from The Punisher.
It’s gothams fault. They are allowing joker to kill more people by not giving him the death sentence. It’s not Batman’s job
It's like asking cops to shoot more people.
Arguments such as this defeat themselves in nature
So, he’s willing to take the law into his own hands to be a vigilante because the law is incapable of catching these guys, but he can’t kill one homicidal maniac because the law is incapable of making that choice as well?
Changing the world requires more than one person. Sure, Batman's at fault for not killing but it's also not his fault that they didn't decide to give Joker the death sentence.
@dominocut2963 I agree with this sentiment. Changing the world requires people working together towards a common goal. Gotham and Batman are both at fault for criminals continuing to terrorize the city
Pretty much in The Dark Knight Returns, Joker killed so many innocent people. Had Batman not been a wimp, so many people wouldn't have died...
There is no need for Batman to kill the Joker, the second or third time he had escaped and was sent to Arkham he would have either been found dead in his jail cell or have been “disappeared’. Amanda Waller doesn’t mess around. Even if Batman doesn’t kill, he would have permanently crippled the Joker by now (like wrecked all his joints, broken his back or given him some traumatic brain injury) so Joker would not be able to harm anyone else.
Already happened and ...
Already happened and ...
@@brothersofwrath4785and what?
@@Itiswhatitis4593 status quo
If Joker was fighting the Shadow dude would just kill him and everybody else in arkham.
" Sometimes the action that's right is not always the easiest. " And it's not Batman's unique fault. He does the job a Police Officer would do. Bring suspects alive into custody to stand trial. Everything else is attributed to the failure of the Justice system and the whole reason Batman exists in the first place to keep combatting the already existent violent crime, and to keep on the side of Law enforcement by abiding to a code. The courts need to change. Not Batman. Batman is a hero, not a murderer.
Thumbing up yer own comment
@@brothersofwrath4785it's better than thumbing up your ass.
@@Luke21-xk7uhi bet you have half inch batmeat up your exhaust
@@brothersofwrath4785 Lol good for you for figuring a way to write the comment without it getting deleted. It's the most intelligent thing I've seen from you so far. You certainly ain't as smart when it comes to debating Batman.
@@Luke21-xk7uhyou jealous
In the Batman voice: I can't kill you but I can break you.
Even this would have been a better option than just having him throw them in jail and do nothing.... Besides Batman, despite being one of my favorite all-time superheroes, despite not being super, it has a lot a lot of different problems. If you really start scratching through the service such as he's a billionaires can do whatever they want. Kind of symbol such as corporations can do what they want. Kind of symbol that just a variety of messiness. I mean if they weren't trying to inspire someone to go off and kill people by keeping him from killing people, they still inspire people who are broken and mentally harmed from healing at clinics and with counseling instead of just going on the streets and being a vigilante. But I do love me some Batman
Peacemaker saying this is not a special occasion or exceptional moment, it was a fun scene to watch and completely makes sense for Peacemaker's character to think that. But this has been part of the conversation for YEARS. Hell Jason Todd is an example of making the same criticism of Batman in pop culture. This is not a lucky day for fans critical of Batman, this is just the same super hero meta conversation
This is true but for the first time it's moved outside of just our discussions. It's made it to mainstream where people who don't pay close attention to Batman outside of his movies are pausing and going wait....that actually makes sense
Uh no.
The No Killing Rule is easily debunked logically and morally.
There's a reason why no other action hero has an idiotic rule like it
What makes sense?
@@whynot1548
What?
The majority of hero’s generally don’t kill their villains. Like are you not aware of comic books general
Like what I don’t get is WHY Batman is the only hero that gets shit from it
Meta explanation: it sells, the same reason Spider-Man always suffers. The old immovable object vs unstoppable force debate.
In-universe: it's better to talk about a specific version of the character. They all have different reasons, but it comes down to Batman believing he, and any other non-official law enforcer have the right to make those decisions. I don't actually remember any instance that he stopped a cop from killing criminals. If there is, I would like to know.
Batman for all his knowledge, Skills, Money, Tech etc is actually an oberrated pos.
Over*
*overrated
I know I'm late to the party but I disagree with your opinion, the judicial system is more to blame than Batman for Joker. Instead of sending him to death row for all he's done or locking him in a federal facility that's more secure they continue to send him to Arkham where he's proven time and time again he can escape. Plus what about all the officers, staff, and other people who see Joker on a daily basis who could also kill him but don't. Batman is an enforcer of the law not an executioner, the system has failed Gotham in regards to Joker. Batman is a hero because he chooses not to kill his enemies, if he did he'd prove he's no better than his villains who often take this route. For Batman the ends do not justify the means.
You are indeed late to the party but your opinion/take is always welcome
Sure blame the authority when you already act as a law breaking vigilante
@@brothersofwrath4785
My dude WHY do you care so much over a character you know so little about?
I care because I actually read the comics and understand the character, you don’t.
If Batman is so bad what makes Red Hood? He kills unimportant henchmen by the dozens but never anyone that matters, specially the joker
@@Indigo_1001didya lick yer own comment?
Batman would stop Joker from being executed if he ever received the death penalty, we all now this. And the whole 'he'd be no better than the villains' line is such crap. Yes, he would be because unlike them he doesn't kill indiscriminately or for some gain, nor does he kill innocent people. He's a billionaire lunatic that likes dressing up and beating people up every night, he doesn't kill because he doesn't want to lose his playmates. And Batman has already put himself above the law by being a vigilante, you can't call him an 'enforcer of the law' when he breaks it every time he goes out to play. The irony about people like yourself that defend this nonsense with all your sophistry is that at the end of the day , its all just a cynical, corporate policy enacted so they can bring villains back over and over and over again.
Ah yes let agree with the bloody criminals who have no form of moral high or authority agais the guy who Risk his life day in and out to save the universe
You and your alternator accounts thumbed up your comment.
@ whatever let you sleep at night
@@painvillegaming4119
Earth 51 Batman exists to dispute your dreams
@Ain't no way you're using countdown as any valid form of reasoning. What next do you want to use the Batman who laughed?
If an alternate world in a garbage story
Also, where did I lie? Peacemaker...isn't a good person this is a man who would exterminate children if he believed it was for the right thing
Your gonna take this man over the guy who saves lives?
Want to go support Homelander against Superman next?
@@painvillegaming4119
If you read comics you would see that peacemaker's character is not that kind. We did see in canon that Batman slit Jason's throat with a batarang to prevent him from killing the joker
The non kill rule in the case of Batman can be justified taking on account that he is completely crazy and he is aware of it. If a mentally sane person kills somebody for whatever reason the will probably get over it in time. But Batman instead becomes a monster ( and later an eldricht god) and he is completely aware of it.
Batman isn't bad because he doesn't kill. He's bad because he'd move mountains to protect the likes of Joker and Zsasz from those willing to cross that line. Batman knows these monsters will keep on killing, but cannot will himself to stand aside because "Waaah! All killing bad!" As if the madman who murders thousands for kicks is morally equal to someone that would kill to stop the killing.
Ah yes, but when any other hero doesn't kill their villains it’s totally fine 😁
Spiderman has the same problem
cuz he has villains that have done the most heinous shit. the joker will not reform as much as batman believes that he can. even if we say that's the case, batman/bruce wayne doesn't do anything to keep joker and the rest of his rogues gallery in arkham.
a bald rich guy a talking halloween decoration and a mutant cheetah aren't on the same level as a mass murdering psyckopath
@@brothersofwrath4785didn't spider-man drown a guy
@@jackzelos green goblin,carnage and kingpin did not get drowned
Personally I don't think Peacemaker is wrong in his opinion on batman but in Bat's defense that's not his job to peramently end them. Batman's connection to the law is questionable, as initially he's a vigilante with no actual connection to the law unless he chooses to follow it. As a Justice Leaguer he's connected to the US or UN depending on the story as while the league is an independent group, they agree to certain sanctions to be allowed to work as effectively as they do. While it's questionable why Bat's hasn't killed his villains I can't really claim he's entirely responsible for the decisions of literal adults who made the concious decision to committ mass murder. Afterall that's the job of the courts to decide on the punishment for the villains so it's more a failure in Gotham's laws, justice system, and Goverment.
That said a large amount of the "he deserves a second chance" is stupid to me. Injustice Bat's gives Harley Quinn a pass for the mass death in Metroplois but get's on Superman for ending the man who literally did it. The guy goes so far to enforce his own ideals of heroism on others that it's baffling that he's willing to give villains 2nd chances but in book hit Red Hood, his own son, harder than he's ever hit the Joker. I'm not making an argument that some Bat's rogues haven't gone too far, they definitely have and the death penalty should be on the table for them but I don't think Batman has the specific responsibility to end them.
That argument defeats itself in nature. He is not authorized to do anything and should turn himself in for vigilantism
Sooooooo..... why does he even bother if he's only causing MORE deaths when they escape?
To answer both of these comments I don't disagree. Batman mainly puts on the cowl for a lot of varied reasons ranging from vengance to wanting to prevent more deaths similar to what happened to his parents, reasonably speaking he's comitted numerous crimes like Vigilantism, assault, breaking and entering, destruction of public property, tax evasions, etc and reasonably speaking he should be arrested for it.
As for why does he even bother? Heck if I know. He does so to make Gotham a better place but many including myself have made the argument that after his initial years Batman is arguably making for capable crimminals. He hacks your phone for your meet up spot? Use a map or a sheet of paper, he beats your grunts up then get superpowered ones to the job, etc. He's doing his best and while it's been effective as Gotham is apprently more safe then it was prior to his emergence he's made more costumed crazies as compensation.
@@ancientking224 So by making things WORSE.... he's making things.... better?
@@jeremyallen5974 Or at least trying to, try not to think too much about it, trust me it gets confusing when you apply common sense to Batman.
The irony that Batffleck was killing people left and right. However, the biggest thing with Batman is that he does want to kill people, he’s always holding back because he’s not too far from being the worse villain of all time. His one rule is what holds him back and keeps him in check. Joker knows the darkness that’s inside Batman he wants to break him like he did with two face because if he can break Batman then all hope is lost. Also the biggest thing is that Batman wants to perpetuate a fair justice system or else what’s stopping someone else using Batman as an example and start killing other people. The system in Gotham is broken, but he’s trying his best to reinstate it.
Goes to show how unstable he REALLY is that putting down so much as ONE serial killer will turn the retard into a mass murdering sociopath
At least the killing would be for the right reasons, not some senseless, dramatic mayhem caused by a deranged CLOWN.
And you think this person whos on the cusp of psychopathy should be in charge of delivering justice in gotham. The excuses batman gives for not killing are disturbing and any cop or military soldier who would say those things would be discharged immediatly and possibly investigated. But because its batman its supposed to be "cool and dark".
Then he should've joined the GCPD
@@whynot1548or since he’s a billionaire (maybe even higher cause lexcorp and waynetech own 95% of DC’s earths GDP…so probably a Trillionare) invest in the gcpd to have a better police force to get rid of the corruption or bribe them (Ik bribing is a scumbag thing to do but I’m just taking a shot in the dark i don’t know shit about how to fix a corrupt justice system lmao) I never understood why he doesn’t do that as rich as he is he could give every human on DC’s earth a 30+ dollar an hour job
Finally! People are speaking up about this.
If he avoided to kill his enemies, but did kill them when it was proven the were irredeemable, it would make much more sense.
Lol Batman just the delivery guy. Once he delivers the goods it’s up to the government to step in and make sure Joker doesn’t escape. Uncle Sam’s system is what’s flawed in the comics. He’s not the executioner cause he trynna actually enforce laws
Yet he breaks the law
@@brothersofwrath4785
Im sorry hit are you dumb.
Is apprehending a criminal the same as murdering anyone you seem fit to kill?
How cannot you not see this huge difference
You have a massive hate boner for a character you know nothing about
@@brothersofwrath4785
My dude do you not see the difference between breaking the law to apprehend criminals and breaking the law to just execute criminals?
Do you not get that one is far worse than the other. How commissioner gordon can never work with an Batman like that.
Some of the best Batman stories could not exist if he just kills his criminals. Not like you would care since you don’t read them
To be fair the a lot of the fault also falls on the justice system that hasn’t given joker the death sentence
Batman is not authorized to capture joker either yet he does all over again
@HolyMoly pretty much
Wrong
The rant only makes sense if you haven’t read any Batman comics, or did a two minute google search to find out how systemic crime is propagated.
The dude is supposed to be as wealthy as the kings of Egypt, that's on his punk ass for wasting his fortune moonlighting as his fursona when he SHOULD BE investing his fortune into the city to make it a better place instead of enabling the cycle of violence
@@jeremyallen5974 You are just proving OP's point with your dumbass comment.
But he does that in the comics@@jeremyallen5974
@@jeremyallen5974 read comics instead of yappin
@nkemnoraulmanfredini7286 I'm not reading through the same story over and over and over again
I hope the DCU shows batman actually wanting to mentally help joker and the rest of the rougues gallery. Not just put them in jail or put them in Arkham, but actually try and help them. Killing is not an option.
Any chance of redemption goes out the window the moment they start popping kidneys for shits and gigs
bruce wayne is rich af but does nothing to help keep the capture criminals in captivity
Finally someone else agrees he’s entertaining but he’s a failure as a hero
Why is it Batman responsibility to kill the Joker. Why can’t Gotham just sentence him to death? Why blame Batman when you should be blaming the Gotham city government? It feels like shifting the blame.
That argument fails
Absolutely! Gotham and its people fail to take responsibility for themselves. Batman always takes the criminals to Blackgate prison or Arkham Asylum. But the Gotham system never ensures that they will never do harm again. Batman has the right not to be the judge, jury, and executioner. Gotham's issues is Gotham's fault.
@@brentoncaldwell7986 no
That argument is self-defeating because Batman is a vigilante thus a law Breaker. Blaming it on country is bullshit when you take justice into your own hands
Batman and Gordon only bends the law, not fully break it. Even though they go out to stop these criminals, they still follow the justice system and its rules at the end of the day.
@@enzoamore8971 they go out to maintain the status quo
Peacemaker would love to team up with big pun💀🕊
Chris is right about batman
I think the main culprit is Gotham justice system.
And don't give me the BS of Joker calling insanity. Because even Victor Zsasz is a psychopath who i believe killed above 100 people and the system haven't gave him the death sentence.
I believe Joker deserves the chair too for all the amount of crimes has done
He was on the Chair 🪑 He is still back in Business.
Wrong Batman saved him from the chair
Now that's a good take, quick question though, How many people has Spiderman inadvertently killed by letting green goblin live, How many people has Superman inadvertently killed by letting Lex live, How many people has daredevil Inadvertently killed, By letting Kingpin live, If people have a problem with Batman's No kill rule, They should have a problem with every hero having a No kill rule
Batman needs horrible high end villians like Joker to give his life purpose, he likes taking on heavy hitters, that's why he keeps them alive. It sucks for everyone elese, but Batman is selfish and evil himself. I don't know why people think he's a good guy, he's making the disease that kills people and then offering himself as the doctor with the cure, he's corrupt to the core.
Everyone's on their moral high horse when criticising batman when they themselves was never put in that situation nor have the courage to pull the trigger; the would be ineffectivity of batman is the reflection of our personality that we're uncomfortably comfronting let alone embracing. This is why he is an effective hero, he brings out the hypocrits, villains, ignorants and demons dwelling within our own psyche and be that embodiment so that we may see with our own eyes that unsightly part of ourselves and realize our own immaturity and inaction so that we may better ourselves.
You are wrong, Batman should be doing something to stop The Joker and the rest of his rogues gallery once and for all, but instead he just puts them in Arkham where they break out and commit more atrocious acts and the same thing happened over and over again, and that is a problem, because good people are suffering as a result.
@@trevturp6891 exactly the point; we the readers like to project what the hero "should" be doing yet as capable as he is, he is flawed just like the rest of us. He becomes the embodiment of our faults that we ourselves can't own let alone respond to. Batman's struggles directly mirrors our society; everyone of us holds others accountable for their mistakes yet we fail to look in ourselves of our shortcomings. It is a never ending endeavor that each individual goes through and much like the so called authorities in Gotham we ourselves externalized our personal responsibilities because we just like to "mind our own business" yet when the would be enforcers fail our expectations we are the first ones to point our fingers of what they should have done yet we ourselves fail to come up with let alone enact.
@@tiberiusgrey1529 So that’s why Joker continues to massacre the people of Gotham City?
@@kiwiangeldust6912Heath Ledger's Joker already explained this
@@tiberiusgrey1529 We all don't fail to look in ourselves of our shortcomings and we can own, let alone respond to our faults.
I love Batman but the no kill rule needs to be written better than it is.
Here's something for you all, how would you guys write his no killing rule?
Here's how I would write it, the No Kill rule would be because of redemption of course, but also, the law doesn't take kindly to vigilantes, especially those who kill... the redemption part? Either he meets Mr. Freeze, or he sees one of the thugs he hurt, apologizing to his family that he failed to take care of them.
I'd like your input but don't be a dickwad about it.
0:46... yes... BUT is not cause he doesnt kill.. you have to remember that the reason batman cant archive anything is not cause of his morals but DC not allowing him to acomplish anything that change the status quo.
if batman was allow to kill.. nothing would also change in gotham... batman villians would be comming back from the death left and right becouse Dc would not allow them to stay death the same way Dc would not allow them to actually beat batman.
Punisher, red hood and ghost rider etc
@@brothersofwrath4785
WHEN
WHEN does Red Hood kill anyone that matters. Why do you people give credit to something he never did.
Oh also please give me a list of all the iconic Punsiehr villains… I’ll wait. Funny how Spider-man, Superman and Batman have the most iconic villains in comic history. I wonder why…
Im happy someone besides me finally called out the ridiculous Batman glazing.
Batman is justice, he is not the judge, jury, and executioner. When adapted as a hero of hope, his work is to build Gotham, and not just "take out the trash". He does not personally throw villains in Arkham like it's his personal dungeon. He catches the bad guys and hands them to the authorities. He believes in law and order; he is not an anti-hero. Gotham's villains not being executed is not a failure of a vigilante, but the failure of the justice system and the state.
Yes, this is all just fiction, and as many of the comments have pointed out, each adaptation does it different and has its merits. I just think that in the last 5 years (bearing in mind this video is 2 years old at this point) the commentary surrounding Batman in-universe has become meta-commentary; It starts sounding like writers riffing off a lampoon rather than pushing the setting of Gotham. Batman doesn't need an update. Gotham does.
finally, someone who actually understand this character
"but the failure of the justice system and the state."
So, is there any Batman stories that explore this idea? Any at all? And if there are, how can any self-respecting writer still cling to status quo?
Hey joker
Red hood is comin for ya
Its even funnier when you realize batman has broken his rule in the main timeline and killed a villian twice the same guy the penny plunderer the guy who steals pennies got the death sentence in his first story then got shot and crushed by a giant penny by batman
I thought they just straight up sent the plunderer to death row in the first one, also the first one was in the 40s before the whole no killing rule was established.
Batmans no-kill-rule is an important aspect of his character (When done right). And I think alot of the criticisms it gets is weak or at the fault of the writers.
First off: Why is Batman the only one who gets shit for his no-kill-rule? Spider-man doesn't get any flack for not killing the Green Goblin who, just like the joker, has a high body count and kills for fun. Or even better, why is it *Batmans* obligation to kill anyone? Why must he be the judge and executioner? Why hasn't anyone working at Arkham or a GCPD officer killed the joker when they had the chance? Is there blood on their hands too? The state should put the joker on death row, by how dangerous he is.
IMO, DC has made the joker way too damn evil. His kill count is way too high, when it really isn't needed. It was better when the joker was a clown themed mob boss with a sick sense of humor. He killed people, but not MILLIONS?! BTAS had the best version of the Joker, if you ask me (It does everything the best).
I personally don't think Batman would go out of his way to stop anyone from killing the joker. Or bring him back to life, that's ridiculous. None of that feels in character for him. Are the writers stupid? All comics aren't written equally. There are bad iterations of the character, which is doomed to happen given how massive the Batman franchise is. That's why head canons are great when reading comics.
So why doesn't Batman kill? Batman doesn't kill because he really values life. He is so traumatized by his parents' death that he just cannot do it. I think of the scene in Batman Origins when the joker is falling off a rooftop after they just met, and Batman immediately jumps after him. He doesn't even hesitate. He didn't consider whether the joker deserves to live or die. Because Batman has a deep-rooted impulse to save as many lives as possible. It's what makes him interesting. He is the superhero that dresses like a bad guy but in reality is a really nice guy who really values life, almost to a fault. It makes stories ripe for moral dilemmas.
Maybe it would be better if batman killed these criminals. But that's the thing, *maybe*. The moral dilemma didn't use to be so black and white. A lot of his villains had redemptions in BTAS. Harley, Mr. Freeze (Batman Beyond), Riddler, penguin, two-face, Ivy and others. They eventually turn back to crime, on their own without Batman interfering (Which kinda debunks the notion that Batman creates his villains). Batman was in support of all his foes turning over a new leaf, because that's the ideal outcome for him. That's why he doesn't kill, because he believes in change. He believes Gotham can change. Superman is often regarded as the symbol for hope, but I think that fits Batman too. How optimistic isn't it for Batman to believe that the shithole that is Gotham City can improve?
Batman shouldn't kill, it's one of his most important features as a character. But the writers don't know how to enforce that into a story properly and often misunderstands the core principles of Batman. His no-kill-rule used to be less black and white, but DC couldn't help themselves and made everything so extreme. I don't think Batman's no kill rule is inherently stupid, I just think the writers made it so. Which is a shame because when done right, It's a compelling aspect of Batman's character.
Arkham Origins is a good example. Imma go play Arkham Origins brb.
Batman, Rick Sanchez, Tony Soprano, and Tony Montana are not heroes. If you see them that way then you’re totally missing the point. There’s no way Batman should be given as much leeway as he does. He’s caused so much collateral damage it’s insane.
what the hell do those other 3 have to do with batman? one's an egotistical scientist that does anything only for himself, idk tony soprano haven't watched, and montana is a lunatic drug lord. wth do they have to do with a "supposed" beacon of justice. they were never close to that in the first place lol
Stop trying to make batman the punisher. There are several spin off comics if you want that, but batman not killing doesn't make him a bad character or hero. There are many, many reasons he doesn't kill. Also, the argument that he killed in previous comics is BS, as the batman no kill rule was established literally one year after the first appearance of batman.
Come back when you know what the fuck you are talkin about.
Why not talk about spiderman does he kill his villians ? Why is it only batman people target for this .There are many other superheroes that refuse to kill
Difference is Spider-Man has never portrayed himself as someone who strikes terror in the hearts of criminals his slogan is " Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man"
The difference is that spider man doesn’t shove his no kill rule down everyone’s throat like batmid and also because New York justice system isn’t corrupted like gotham
@@LarryBonson….that dumb and you know it
What is their gimmick the problem?
@@Dark-f1p1gand then you remember every time Peter fights Logan
I would have to disagree with peacemaker.
Yes, an argument could be made that the world might be safer if his rugs gallery were just taken down, but Batman shouldn’t be an executioner. His enemies aren’t just people in costumes causing anarchy, they are living thinking creatures who deserve to face trial for their actions but also have the chance for redemption and rehabilitation.
Maybe Batman’s, maybe Batman’s wrong, but as a superhero, he defends all life, even those who don’t deserve it.
And you have to remember a fair amount of super villains have actually reformed: Hawkeye, Black Widow, Captain Cold, Harley Quinn, Riddler, Cat-Woman, Winter Soldier, Vision, Gamora, Starlord, Mr. Freeze and so many more have turned their lives around at different points throughout comic book history. All because the heroes they fought chose to show them mercy and compassion.
If Batman had just killed his villains, the first time he fought them, they would’ve never gone on to do good. And as nonsensical, it may sound on paper, Batman believes that everyone has the power to change no matter how difficult it may be.
(Although, I just have to say it makes no sense that peacemaker would be criticizing Batman for not killing seeing as the DCEU version of Batman does kill.)
He has crippled people before Lmao smoke that copium
Thumbing up your own comment
Stop riding his half inch long batmeat up your exhaust
@@brothersofwrath4785 😭
@@mustardwithglasses6508 I responded to the original commenter
@@brothersofwrath4785 I know lol. I agree
I honestly hate the Joker. So overused as a villain. I hope Batman kills him.
Maybe that will happen in James Gunn’s DCU
@@seanbotti5385 that would be exhilarating to watch. It would cathartic to watch.
@@seanbotti5385
Really? After the joker movie made 1 billion at the box office
@@Indigo_1001 “It’s not about money, it’s about sending a message.”
@@seanbotti5385
My dude these are stories.
Tell that to all joker fans that want to see him in stories
In movies Batman tends to kill.
Very true. Which is why the Snyder Haters make no sense
@@whynot1548
What are you talking about?
In BvS it made no sense because he was indiscriminately killing dozens of random henchmen but not The joker? Or Harley? Or Lex? Or Deadshot? Or any living supervillain in that universe.
That was the issue
@@Indigo_1001 If the DCEU wasn’t cancelled
It makes sense on paper. Most people would not go insane over one death but then there’s the others. How far is too far?Which villains should survive and how many must they kill before the hero has to put them down for good?Honestly how effective are any of the heroes when the same villains do the same plans
Great video! i love when people are logical about it. people who think batman can do anything are crazy as the joker!
2:50 Forgot to mention that The Joker killed Jason Todd literally multiple times in different universes
Batman: oh no, I lost another disciple.
Eh, fuck im. Time to hit up the orphanage for my next meat shield!
@@jeremyallen5974fax😂
In the context of comics, in this regard, every hero is a "pussy" no hero kills their villains because the writers need them to come back, that's the real reason.
And even heroes who do kill like Punisher, or Deadpool, or Wolverine, their villains still come back anyways. That or the villain stays dead because they're too uninspired and boring to return. It happens with every. Single. One of them: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, Spider-Man, Iron Man, Captain America, Thor...
Yeah, the Joker has killed hundreds, even thousands, but let's look at some other villains: General Zod has killed countless and threatened worlds and that dude escapes the Phantom Zone on the reg. Lex Luthor has harmed and killed hundreds of innocents and he's still able to run for president. Norman Osborn and Venom were both allowed to become "heroes" in the eyes of the public. Magneto and Dr Doom have both threatened and nearly carried out genocide multiple times and both are allowed to run their own countries in peace. Zoom has almost ended entire timelines and he is still a recurring villain. Sinestro betrayed the Green Lantern Corps and made his own Corps to oppose them and kill them and continues to do so, yet the best they do is imprison him. Vandal Savage has threatened the extinction of the human race and has lived since the Neanderthals. One could say he's outstayed his welcome in life but the Justice League has never devoted time to discovering a way to permanently kill him
Batman just gets shit because the writers of his stories actually tried to make it a part of his character instead of just brushing it away as "doing the right thing" like every other hero.
If you want to read a series of comics that doesn't have this issue and views the lives of superheroes as legitimate stories that have a beginning and end to them, rather than just the same villains returning time after time, I recommend the Earth One series.
It's a self contained "universe" where essentially they're like "Here's 3 graphic novels of Green Lantern or Wonder Woman and that's it, that's all you get, their story is complete."
In the context of comics, every hero isn’t a pussy, there are a lot of heroes in comics that kill their enemies.
Ironman, Captain America, and Thor kill their enemies.
@@trevturp6891 You're on one dude. In the movies maybe. How many fucking comics has Iron Man fought the Crimson Dynamo, Whiplash, or the Mandarin? How many times has Captain America fought Red Skull or Baron Zemo? How many times has Thor fought Loki, Hela, Surtur and the Enchantress?
You proved my point. Doesn't matter even if they do kill, the memorable villains ALWAYS come back. Why? Because writing. Batman is just one of the only ones who has an excuse for it written into his character.
@@hawkeyeplerce5238 The villains can't come back, unless they are brought back to life.
@@hawkeyeplerce5238 Thor, Ironman, and Captain America kill their enemies. If they killed people in the movies, then they killed people in the comics.
Yeah, I think love always includes violence, if you’re not willing to kill to save someone you love then you don’t love them very much
Peacemaker is right
Morals and law no longer matter when it comes to people like joker, it has gone to far and gothem doesn't execute him and batman only continues the cycle by not killing him
His code is respectable he wants to save thoes that can be saved and he doesn't want to be as bad as them but joker needs to be the exception, joker has committed mass genocide which is arguably the worst crime a single person can commit so why is his life worth more then millions of others???? There's no reforming joker he's beyond help
Joker literally caused the whole injustice time line because of batman nit putting him down and superman was the one man who said enough was enough yes he may have took it way to far in the end but at the same time superman was 100% right with his philosophy he just carried out his plans in the wrong way but he was still right about the fact people like joker need to be put down
Batman and his rule is respectable in a way but its absolutely foolish in gothem
Batman protects status quo only
@@brothersofwrath4785
Read Batman Year One
Was he protecting the status quo when he was going after the *corrupt politicians and police?
He doesn’t protect the status. Readers do. Joker never dies because he is an extremely popular character. Hence why no one kills him, not even Red hood
@Indigo_1001
Earth 51 Batman
I couldn't agree more, which is why I am in full support of redhood and the ghostmaker; Batman continues to come off as a big joke in serving justice each time he's no kill rule is bought into question! 🤣😁😉💯🔥👍🏻
Isn’t Red hood the bigger hypocrite because he ALSO doesn’t kill any major villain that matters.
At least Batman is consistent. But red hood only kills these unimportant henchmen or villains.
I can’t stand people giving red hood credit for something he never did
@Indigo_1001 Well he did try to kill the penguin; but the writer's had it where he survived being shot in the eye because of him being a batman villain, which means he also gains some heavy plot amour due to the fact he's not red hood's archenemy but apart of batman's rogue gallery. 😁😉💯🔥👍🏻
@@vmaninc.761
So red hood is also equally incapable of killing anyone that matters. He is just a bigger hypocrite because he has no issue killing countless nameless henchmen.
You people give red hood credit for things he never does and cannot ever do.
Batman doesn’t kill the joker. So why on earth does Red hood fiend do it since he has no problem in killing these random goons. How is he better than Batman when he doesn’t make the one thing people expect him to do.
@@Indigo_1001red Hood shot one of the jokers
I'll body the Joker, Mad Hatter, Hush, Bane, Penguin, Pyg, Zsasz, etc. and we can discuss morality later during the evening news once everyone is safe. lmfao. Realistically, I don't think Bruce would be able to operate as Batman for very long in Gotham if he had villains to truly match him and to go toe to toe with him night in night out. To stay Batman as long as he has, he would HAVE to body them all eventually or face his untimely death. Good thing they're fictional characters, the world is already a mess.
Dude, you know batman isn't real right?
Any good story ends at some point! There's a beginning, call to action, climax, and end. Comics are garbo because they just never end and repeat themselfs.
Don't call Marvel/DC stuff "The Comics", it's not like there's no independent works written in classic linear fashion.
he a hero you know they got that code and shit the whole im not going to kill to become them shit dont get me wrong its alot story lines where heros kill but it always been that one mortal choice that everyone that loves superheros asked they self why not they go punisher on they ass. different superhero shows have talked about the subject forever flash dare devil etc...
Well, that could be instinctive squeamishness, which explains why most cops never fire their guns, and only one in 10 WWII gunshots were aimed to kill the enemy. So, non-lethal superheroes are plausible, especially since according to the FBI's statistics, only 10% of crimes and criminals are violent. Sixty percent of the USA prison population are nonviolent first-time-only drug offenders! There is no need to kill stoners, lol!
As a Batman fan i have to agree
How killing villains would make Batman a better hero? From a standpoint of a compelling story, how would murderous Batman differ from all the Punisher-look-alikes, those cool and edgy anti-heroes created in a hellhole that were 90s?
From ideological standpoint, it does not make any sense for a little boy traumatised by a murder of his parents to just start smashing skulls with crates and breaking necks of his enemies.
The Dark Knight Returns and The Killing Joke are those that started this discussion. And they show exactly why he should never kill. Both stories almost explicitly state Bats readiness to kill the Joker, but also they show a failed, broken man, whose world is falling apart and the last resort for him is to break the seal on which everything he believes in was founded. And in the end he doesn't kill his arch-nemesis anyway. He still kills no one. And this is what makes these stories great. They are about a man that stared in a dark void and he resisted it, where so many felt into it. And that's why Batman is eternal and nobody cares who the fuck is Shadowhawk.
Batfag is just as bad or worse than Joker because he keeps him alive
It would show he actually GAVE A SHIT about justice, chucklehead.
Leaving the murderers, rapists and serial killers that infest his city to an OBVIOUSLY CORRUPT criminal prosecution system isn't 'justice', regardless of how you morally deficient simps try to cut it
"How killing villains would make Batman a better hero?" cuz killing those criminals who keep breaking out and killing other people is better than keep letting them do the same thing again and again? if batman values life so much then doesn't he just end one life to save MILLIONS. batman is more concerned about the life of his villains than he does his allies/friends. I would imagine the punisher came about because he can show how doing the last step isn't a bad thing, you're just finishing the job
Perhaps people prefer Batman over Shadowhawk because he is more famous and familiar. After all, he was published during the Depression era, while the latter was published in the '90s.
@@brothersofwrath4785
This is just insanity.
“He is worse as the joker”. What type if dumb logic is that.
My take on Batman is he is so traumatized by the death of his parents, that he physically can’t kill because the moment he kills he sees himself as the same as the person who killed his parents. Imagine seeing yourself as the person who killed your own parents.
Batman actually needs to be in Arkham
I love Batman, but his logic is too damn flawed, and that’s why I agree with Jason (Red Hood), getting rid of rapists, murderers, drug dealers, i.e., the truly evil ones.
Edit: I just saw that I’m the 666th like lol
So why on earth doesn’t Red Hood kill the joker.
Doesn’t that make him a bigger hypocrite?
And if Batman cachets and apprehends those criminals don’t they get the death sentence?
@@Indigo_1001Batman would not let anything happen to his puddin'
Batman does a field job comparable to that of the police. So we can compare his code to that of real-life police. In most cases, police aren't supposed to kill anyone. That's the protocol. If someone is so evil, the court decides whether to grant the death penalty or not. The courts of Gotham are seriously failing because it takes a lot less than what Joker has done to get you the death penalty. I know a death penalty case where a man killed three women and did all sorts of fucked up sexual things to their bodies and threw one body away as trash or something. That's way less than what Joker has done. Also, Batman's code states that he can never kill. Police in real life are allowed to kill in very rare situations. Sometimes, police need to make decisions on the fly that rarely include whether to kill someone or not. So, Batman's code is probably based on stupid reasons, but it's mostly realistic.
How is this a "great" take on batman? It's been repeated milions of times and has become memefied, it's nothing original, and it doesn't make you smart if you make such an argument that has literally been already adressed in batman stories themselves to death.
Why don’t we ever blame Arkham Asylum’s terrible security. Batman does his job of putting these maniacs in prison. Batman is not judge, jury, nor executioner, but also with the shit the joker has done how has bro not been executed💀
I disagree
None of this is Batman’s fault he’s in the morally right place. If anything the city of Gotham ought to just sentence the Joker and the rest of them to the electric chair.
The responsibility for all this shouldn’t fall on the heroes
That argument defeats itself in nature
I guess earth 51 batman is the only guy who learns his lesson
@@seanbotti5385 "keep telling yourself that,,
Joker to Batman in injustice 2
@@seanbotti5385 the biggest part about injustice is that Batman does not even want to admit his own mistakes
@brothersofwrath4785 injustice is an alternative universe where everyone is injustice 🤦 you are batman hater i see you in every video about batman