I love how people believe that "Well it's back to the mansion.". Try again. McTaggart is roughly the same age as Xavier so they 'off' her ALL of her interactions disappear. Even her interactions with Xavier. LEGION disappears. Killing her off COMPLETELY reboots X-Men decades before they exist. There will be no mansion, hell most of the existing mutants may not exist AT ALL!
I hope you are right. There is a stagnation that is unbelievable right now with Marvel. This Krakoa series was wild different. It did not always laid, but I appreciate the swings it took.
Gambit has always had control but in order to prevent himself from ever becoming the New Sun he had Sinister remove a portion of his brain that gave him this aspect of his powers.
Had control in the sense he was physically holding back understanding that only works until it doesn’t and that level of power will essentially burn out his body ….. New Sun was more than he could have ever hoped for lol
No, Gambit was losing control as he was getting stronger. It frightened him so much he reached out to Sinister. You apparently didn't read the story entirely, am I wrong? He couldn't charge up a rock for a little explosion without it being basically a huge explosion. He was getting to the point, and I mean in just days not weeks or months but DAYS, away from not even having to touch in order to charge and ignite something. New Sun was a certainty not a choice. It's a good read.
I will keep reading X-Men after Krakoa Era, but keeping me excited by doing better/more creative than Hickman's and his team will be a real challenge for the next writers !
They don't have to actually un-alive Moira. They can simply use the Neutralizer to de-power her as Forge did with Storm (Uncanny X-Men #184 (May 1984)). This would still allow Moira to grow up and fight the mutant cause as she did when first introduced.
Back in Powers of X, there was a data page that said a Dominion fears 2 things - one was Phoenix, the other, Galactus. Any bets on Galactus throwing down?
To the OP, it was established before this issue that Enigma was inevitable. @@brandonfitzgerald-eo3tkKilling the 4 Essex clones won't necessarily stop Enigma. Enigma exists outside of time, and (using Moira save points) collected data from other timelines that were ended to help him ascend. Killing the 4 Sinisters at this point would simply be like causing a divergent timeline and won't affect him. This is why they want to remove Moira before her power even manifests, it takes away the "save point" ability entirely and erases the mechanism for Sinisters to transmit back to him (theoretically).
Having Gambit be killed by using his own power on himself shows the incompetence level of the writers at Marvel. By default most mutants are immune to their own power.
They don't even have to assassinate Moira. All they need to do is turn her human before her ability wakes up. Then we go back to Chris Claremont's X-men of the 90's... which isn't a bad thing. 😁
Moira doesn't have to die She just has to have her mutant abilities removed before they manifest. I think she's going to have a change of heart get her powers back and sacrifice herself. That would reset reality like it has every other time before. The only difference being with this reset she removes her mutant abilities before they manifest at the age of 13 (Don't forget she knows how to do this has never forgotten and at the same time never recreated that technology up until now) so therefore she never gets involved with Professor X Apocalypse Magneto Sinister ECT... none of them and mutants are left to their true destiny without any intervention. This would give the X-Men a true reboot and real hope for the future. Moira could go live out her life as a human away from all of this drama which is what she wants. It's a win-win situation for everyone involved. Also, without Moira involved with the X-Men things are going to be radically different. Many things that took place will have never happened. Proteus will never be born. Legion will never be born. Magneto will never have been manipulated by Moira after the stranger reduced him to a child which means Onslaught will never manifest because Professor X will never wipe his mind. Wolverine will never have the adamantium ripped from his bones. Vulcan and his team of mutants will never sacrifice themselves to save The original team from Krakoa. There's so much to unpack if Moira simply never does anything. No Ahab to create his hound program because he would have never lost his leg. The more you think about it the more changes there will be. The cost? No knowledge of the mutant resurrection protocols. The cost is their immortality. A price I'm sure all of them are willing to pay because all of the good that would come from Moira simply never meddling in mutants affairs far outweighs any good that she did. 🤓
@@Professor_Professoron Yeah that never sat with me right either. She was hurt and she had her reasons but I really don't see her as a villain. Deep down she's always been a good person in regards to her character and I think that part of her will rise above the rest by the end of Fall of X.
I kinda feel bad for Moira ngl. Your right the outcome will be interesting. I have a theory that the Magnus family might possibly rise again. Wanda and Pietro go back to being his biological kids again. Not mutants but Max and Magda’s children. And Wiccan and Speed get confirmed to be mutants again. That’s just my theory but yeah. We’ll see lol
@@Key_kiwithere's a partial fix for all of the Magneto children piece. I've grudgingly accepted that Wanda is not his, but there's a work around for Pietro to still be Magneto's biological son AND still her twin. It would explain why her bloodline spell affected Pietro but not Max. I'm hoping some day some writer discovers and works in something called "heteropaternal superfecundation" or "heteropaternal twins" (where a mother ovulates two eggs in the same cycle and two different men happen to fertilize each within days of each other - or a clinical process from two different donors does). That's the way back for Quicksilver (although he could have been a mutant regardless of parentage had they allowed it)
@@bajansamurai See I don’t think they’d do that, Wanda and Pietro have to both his biological kids or what’s the point. It would get a lil confusing but I get you and that’s a very interesting premise. I have a feeling since it’s nearly 10 years since this retcon, it’s possible it could happen this year. Billy and Tommys reincarnation origin is messy enough, I don’t think it would be wise for that decision tho. Although it is interesting. Wanda can be darker skinned and still be his daughter. I think what it comes down to is this….. they’ll wanna idea that profits the most and retconning them bck would do that imo. I mean it’s iconic family. Also taking away two holocaust survivors as their parents, ain’t a good luck still 😅 But you do bring up an interesting idea, I just don’t think they’d do it ha
I'm pretty sure Manifold will be involved somehow. He will be the one that returns the mutants from the White Room and possibly in an alternate timeline as well. Instead of killing Moira, why not kill the original Nathaniel Essex before he created clones of himself instead?
That's a really good idea! Destiny and Mystique did kill his original body but he had uploaded his mind into that computer program. If they killed him earlier then none of this would have happened.
@@roguefrogger5823 @rjhemedes Killing Essex before cloning will simply amount to being an alternate timeline because the Enigma dominion already collected data from other timelines via the Moira Engine 'save point' ability to make himself exist outside time and space. They'll be free of Sinister, Orbis, etc. but the Dominion will continue to exist. Their theory is that removing Moira removes the mechanism for saving data and making any of those timelines in the first place, or at least preventing any data from one of them from coming back from the future and increasing the Essex AI's knowledge on how to become a Dominion. Either way, stopping Moira (or neutralizing her powers before they activate) would be the required first step. After that, Essex may still achieve dominion at a later point though (considering it required Mother Righteous receiving 1000yo data to accomplish it via the White Hot Room), so then they still have to find him and take him out. Either it all fails and a different plan is needed altogether, or they are basically explaining that this whole event leads to the "true" timeline we know with a seemingly non-mutant Moira.
The Dominion would prevent it, as it wants to preserve its causality. It already killed a Sinister Clone (Immortal X-men #1) and the original Sinister after it created the four clones to do so (IMX#8).
Liked them finally saying Charles has unlocked TK Shot in the dark here but what if end of story Moira becomes a new Dominion. In a way that she can end her storyline, protect mutants in her own way . I mean she really only developed hate because of them constantly losing in previous lives. Being a dominion would override that somewhat. I don't expect her to put mutants on top only for them to have enough plot armor to not be destroyed 😅
That was always my thing with Moira. If she's really got the memories of all that time, wouldn't she eventually become blase with mutants vs humans vs robots? Wouldn't her pov overcome such temporary mindsets?
I get the feeling Moira is going to end up ending herself. As long as i remember reading X-men (which is a long time) Moira has always been a background character that they bring in to kick off an event or use as a opposition or gets sacrificed for the greater good (Muir Island saga, Age of X, Legacy Virus, etc) and when I reflect on the Krakoa era, it just came out of nowhere. Cyclops had just lost an eye. Wolfsbane had just killed herself. Emma had erased mutants from the world’s memory. And then BAM! We’re in the Krakoa era with no explanation. It almost feels like it was never meant to last in retrospect. I feel like a Secret Wars 2015 ending is coming. I feel like the characters that everyone liked or tested well amongst audiences will be back like Rasputin and not everyone will remember the Krakoan era except a few people so in a few years we can have a return to Krakoa special event. I really hope I’m wrong, but the Krakoan age, to me, feels like it’s going to be the new Age of Apocalypse for nostalgia sake🤷🏻♂️
An easy out for X is to simply remove her X-gene, like they have done to the current Moira, before her powers manifest. That way, they don't need to unalive her and she can just live as a human like she did before the House of X retcon.
Great recap. Thanks. There needs to be a twist. Killing Moria is such an easy out. Take me back to the days when real heroes didn't kill. How do the dead mutants come into this plot?
An easy out for X is to simply remove her X-gene, like they have done to the current Moira, before her powers manifest. That way, they don't need to unalive her and she can just live as a human like she did before the House of X retcon.
An easy out for X is to simply remove her X-gene, like they have done to the current Moira, before her powers manifest. That way, they don't need to unalive her and she can just live as a human like she did before the House of X retcon.
Wouldn't stopping Moira before her powers kick in at age 13, have a profound change in the entire Marvel 616 world? This is like the DC resets that past, current and future relationships/futures not have existed at all? Not only that, if multiverse worlds without the touching of Spiderman, Fantastic Four and others totally blink out? There are aspects of Krakoa that I loved and other aspects that I hated but resetting the 616 world impacts the multiverse/otherworld's story arcs. It totally blows up everything, which I find disturbing in some ways. With all the characters of Marvel 616 heroes/villains, could it not be easier if Xavier/Elixer/Tempus could have mindwiped Moira/have Elixer or Forge remove Moira's mutant power before coming out at the same time, allowing her to perish and resurrected via mutant protocols, of no memory of past plus no mutant powers, replacing original Moira and thereby, no mutant knowledge and her living a completely human life with Banshee as a normal scientist in love with Banshee, even wiping out Destiny's knowledge of Moira? Seems like with a combination of several interfering it would eliminate that potential rewrite.
Oh I went into that on my comment if you search for it's here. Take a look and give me some feedback I'd really appreciate it because I thought like you did that everything and I mean everything without Moira would be drastically different. Certain characters would never exist and others would. Certain things would never happen which means that events like Wolverine getting his adamantium pulled out by Magneto would never have happened because Moira would have never messed with an infant magneto. The list just keeps getting bigger and bigger the more I think about it.
I will die on this hill alone, but I detest the idea of just going back to the mansion. It's tired. It's lazy, and it's just re treading old ground. I've spent over 20 years as an X-men fan with the status quo. They finally do something of a noteworthy change just to go back to basics is just disappointing. Maybe it will be more than what it's looking like. I hope so. Just gotta wait and see.
Same. I'm paraphrasing Hickman : While coming back to the status quo makes sense for most of Marvel's characters (Avengers for exemple), X-Men are about evolution and should never look backward.
@@christopheouvrard8548 yes. Damn right. They better do something really good with this...... Reboot🤮. That word makes my stomach turn. I really don't see if they are going back. How they could do anything innovative. I just don't want to see another days of future past, or another mutant massacre ect. I think you get the point. I just got a bad feeling we got some nasty rehashing coming up. For the love of everything X-men I hope I'm wrong
Killing her will not only effect Krakoan Age but anything she was involved throughout comic book history. Like trying to find a cure for legacy virus. This would effect marvel universe, any non mutant allies would have their history change too do to them being involved in X-Men’s story arcs. I don’t see this happening
They'll probably give pre-teen Moira that cure from Otherworld who's name escapes me for the moment and give her some telepathic suggestions since I think she was part of the X-Men being founded. That she goes back to being human Moira.
Am I the only one who is excited for the new era? Things have been a little messy since Hickman left, and if Simone is in fact the new writer for the man X book, sign me up
I can't be excited (yet) for the next era since we have zero information on it. And while I am in favor of closing properly the Krakoa era instead of having it linger too long, I will miss it. I hope some of its concepts will survive in the next era. Hopefully, the new era should build on it, ans not simply ignore it :)
Doug was out of pocket, giving Rasputin 4 complaints when he shouldn’t have spared Moira in the first place; during Inferno, no good deed goes unpunished
So... was that Matthew Malloy story just before the big "reset, and start our new big things" event with Secret Wars 2 just to warm readers up to "if we come up against a reality warper of such grand magnitude, our only solution will be to either kill them, or try to neutralize their mutant gene before it is able to manifest"
Assuming Apocalypse is dead in the 10+ year timeline yet Synch was able to synchronize with his aura via Demiurge (as the High Evolutionary assessed Synch uses his powers) right as it contains his aura? Can he not synch with a Moira aura via the same way or at least a Moira clone aura and end it by going back to his initial rebirth? Its contradicting how Omega Sentinel keeps saying mutants always win and Moira lived several lives where they lose, just shows how this lady made really bad choices in her last 9 lives. Getting rid of Moira gets rid of Proteus damaging the 5 circuit, unless Jamie fills in or Wanda or Franklin?
That's my belief too. She was Mother Askani, she has temporal powers, she was linked to the Phoenix Force, and she is unique in the multiverse. Not using her for a time and space multiverse war would be criminal !
This is a series of future events that are ahead of all the White Hot Room stuff, but in that Elixir saved her from dying after Mother Righteous stabbed her. This implies that over the 10 years between then and this, she got killed (as far as Mystique knows)
There also somthing else this "reset" does if it undoes Krakoa... it potentially erases Wanda's redemption with the mutant population, as well as any other non mutant character growth or cool stories tied to the mutants during this era. We don't see Cap and his Uncanny Avengers standing together against Orchis and Hydra Cap. We don't get Tony, Emma, and Kamala against Fei Long, Storm and Erics arc on Arrako, or Apoclypse (the last two of which, I enjoyed the most😅). Things like that.
The Future Moira, which I just realize now, happens to have Karima’s tech onto her body. Oddly enough, the Phalanx covering the upper half of her face, is referencing to Karima’s heritage mask. So possibly, we should’ve known that Moira is fused with Karima in X Deaths of Wolverine.
Technically they don't need to kill Moira as much as just make sure she doesn't manifest her mutant gift so if they manage to use that tech that makes mutants human they could probably prevent timeline resets and not kill her. Honestly not sure why Charles wouldn't go with that option.
I somehow thought it was considered to be the World Farm that Storm stopped in the Sins of Sinister timeline, but I guess they may still plan to show a version where he got to hit the on switch yet still failed.
Orbis in Red Diamond timeline: has to build the Worldfarm up for 100 years, gets it stolen from him, immideately kills himself instead of trying again. Orbis in another timeline: casually achieves Dominion attempt in 15 years. Uhhhhhhhhh.
Sync shouldn't be able to use powers of Apocalypse. Those powers come more from celestial technology and the techno- organic virus. More modern Marvel quality writing
Loved this issue...definitely up there in terms of keeping me turning pages...also - Dr. Stasis just reminds me of Destro with a Cobra Commander mask, right? lol
I really wanted that to happen but Ultron is different he would betray them. His ultimate goal would be to become the dominion himself. I will say Marvel missed an opportunity to bring all their machine folks together.
The X-books kinda have to pretend that Ultron doesn't exist, otherwise the Sentinels' shtick of "hurr durr look at us we're the most powerful and dangerous AI humanity's ever seen" kinda gets thrown out the window :D.
Since Manifold's power is talking to the universe, I think it's a fair assumption Cypher could mimick his abilities. Cypher speaks to Krakoa and is one of few people who can speak to that sentient being. Therefore having the universe act as a sentient being, who can receive commands and respond, means Cypher need only learn the language Manifold speaks in. Though it seems Manifold speaks in plain English to the universe there is most likely some other variable involved and once figured out, this would be easy to manipulate IMHO.
The art is amazing in this issue. Pepe Laraz if I’m correct? This issue harkens back to the beginning of the Krakoan era. I’ve been woken back up. Let’s go!!!!
I really hope we don't get dropped in a 616 redo/but also things are different thing where nobody has to worry about context or canon because there's a bunch of flashback retcon that can explain everything.
Maybe the two missing mutants that are outside of time and space are Mr. Sinister and Mother Righteous. Either those two or Obis Stilarus and Mother Righteous. Those are my guesses. Tell me what you all think.
To be honest I like the Krakoa era and we have see so many dead and de-powers mutants and ex villains like Tempo and Daken to be allies of X-men and all that’s doing to delete and is pity. I like that
You know, Moira gets born with her memories of the past... so even if they find her as a 8-year-old. She is going to be a 8-year-old that learned to be a murder machine. The only question is how does she remember her 10th life and what happens in it.
Personally I'm sad to see Krakoa go. So many intriguing ideas that won't see the light of day. Arakko truly growing past the revolution era. Questions surrounding The Crucible and what it means for religiosity for Mutants. Resurrection of mutants on their wishes into bodies of different ages and even powersets or appearances. Cyclops' and other mutants odd malleability during Krakoa and the possibility of their having been sort of lobotomized into following tons of policies that feel against their character after resurrection. (I was positive this was coming) Just more slice of life into mutants who dont get to just live. Storm finally giving Death a chance! Don't know about everyone else, but I always liked the iasues where no fights happened and the X-Men just chilled as friends.
Agreed I'm the same. Grand Morrisons New X-Men was great because of the same reason: mutants were catching a break and finally winning and violence was at a minimum.😅 Also the Krakoan Age should be legendary because the Island is literally the answer to all our climate change and geopolitical problems: a carbon negative society that has nature as part of it's government and former good guys and there enemies overcoming their problems with one another and trying to make it work! Sounds like the real world could only learn from that.😊
So with this whole eraser does that mean storm will be back to hee background, and the other Arakko mutants being sealed? Also does this effect the avengers as well
Wait what if all the little sides and fourth wall sinister secret blurbs we have seen across the Krakoan story where actually from Enigma speaking To Us the reader not the sinister we thought it was
What if this doesn't reset the timeline, but puts us right BACk on the regular timeline we were reading before HOXPX and the story just before it began. If they go back in time, they won't Kill Moira, but turn her human by preventing her powers from ever coming into effect, thus, the human Moria we always knew before HOX/POX is the one who helps the X-Men then dies from the Legacy Virus normally, so we return back to square one continuity.
@ Ernie/Blerd; I just had the illest idea, b. What if the whole thing is cyclical? Let me explain. Dominion/Enigma has existed outside of time forever; so has King in Black/Venom/Knull/Meridius/Eddie Brock etc. You know what powers them? THE ENIGMA FORCE!! Captain Universe yo!! Imagine that's where the Eventuality was going......then again, I don't even know if you read Venom. Would be crazy though.
Pains me to see this era end. Looking at the future issues like Forever, I think its obvious what they will do again to Jean. Brevoort taking over as Editor, he hated Jean when she was dead a decade or too ago. Do the math
IIRC Moira's power is kinda invisible to other mutants. It probably can't be synched by others mutants. Which is good, because it would turn this hot mess in a terrible mess IMHO.
Would I be wrong in thinking that, if they are successful in killing young Moira, then they wipe out completely the Krakoan age & undoing all of the character growth, development, and feats of Storm that finally gave her the props and put respect on her name that she deserved (putting her back into the background/2nd tier/support status to the Jean and Cyclops main characters trop)...??? I truly wanted mutants to move on to Mars/Arrakko and build their own unique society there and leave base humans on earth... using the mansion as a contact point for any new mutant born on earth and recruiting them to go to Mars... 🤔
Why didn't you talk about the Enigma being the Enigma Crown mentioned in Defenders 5 by the One Above All? If I remember correctly it becomes so powerful that it can even destroy the One Above All. It's safe to say killing Moira would only be a temporary solution as all the sinisters were out way before her.
@@ContagiousSponge They didn't create it that's why it chose to call itself Enigma. No one understands it and how it came to be so strong. It was a total mystery before the current X-men run no knew how it even came into existence. What we see in the X-men comics is it's baby form basically it's nowhere close to being the Enigma Crown as yet.
@@ContagiousSponge But then again the celestials created the being that created the beyonders who could destroy the celestials. So I wouldn't say foolishness like that isn't something TOAA would do too. But the incursions that the beyonders cause that led to "secret war" were to stop the Enigma.
Four signs of Armageddon.
1) Red moon
2) Oceans dry up.
3) Mystique telling Gambit she’s proud to have had him as a son in law.
😂😂
"Dogs and cats, living together, mass hysteria!" ~Dr. Peter Venkman, Ghostbusters
I love how people believe that "Well it's back to the mansion.". Try again. McTaggart is roughly the same age as Xavier so they 'off' her ALL of her interactions disappear. Even her interactions with Xavier. LEGION disappears.
Killing her off COMPLETELY reboots X-Men decades before they exist. There will be no mansion, hell most of the existing mutants may not exist AT ALL!
I hope you are right. There is a stagnation that is unbelievable right now with Marvel. This Krakoa series was wild different. It did not always laid, but I appreciate the swings it took.
Gambit has always had control but in order to prevent himself from ever becoming the New Sun he had Sinister remove a portion of his brain that gave him this aspect of his powers.
Had control in the sense he was physically holding back understanding that only works until it doesn’t and that level of power will essentially burn out his body ….. New Sun was more than he could have ever hoped for lol
No, Gambit was losing control as he was getting stronger. It frightened him so much he reached out to Sinister. You apparently didn't read the story entirely, am I wrong? He couldn't charge up a rock for a little explosion without it being basically a huge explosion. He was getting to the point, and I mean in just days not weeks or months but DAYS, away from not even having to touch in order to charge and ignite something. New Sun was a certainty not a choice. It's a good read.
It's actually really depressing just to undo all of the cool things that came of Krakoa in the end. Not sure if I'm going to keep reading beyond it.
That part.
Yep
I will keep reading X-Men after Krakoa Era, but keeping me excited by doing better/more creative than Hickman's and his team will be a real challenge for the next writers !
They don't have to actually un-alive Moira. They can simply use the Neutralizer to de-power her as Forge did with Storm (Uncanny X-Men #184 (May 1984)). This would still allow Moira to grow up and fight the mutant cause as she did when first introduced.
Back in Powers of X, there was a data page that said a Dominion fears 2 things - one was Phoenix, the other, Galactus. Any bets on Galactus throwing down?
The end of this issue gives us the revelation that enigma is always inevitable.
Is not if you kill all four Sinisters
To the OP, it was established before this issue that Enigma was inevitable.
@@brandonfitzgerald-eo3tkKilling the 4 Essex clones won't necessarily stop Enigma. Enigma exists outside of time, and (using Moira save points) collected data from other timelines that were ended to help him ascend. Killing the 4 Sinisters at this point would simply be like causing a divergent timeline and won't affect him.
This is why they want to remove Moira before her power even manifests, it takes away the "save point" ability entirely and erases the mechanism for Sinisters to transmit back to him (theoretically).
No it’s not if you put down young Mira then there’s no enigma
@@akidajasper6545 But only in that timeline.
Look up the Enigma Crowm
Having Gambit be killed by using his own power on himself shows the incompetence level of the writers at Marvel. By default most mutants are immune to their own power.
They don't even have to assassinate Moira. All they need to do is turn her human before her ability wakes up. Then we go back to Chris Claremont's X-men of the 90's... which isn't a bad thing. 😁
I think that really is the right solution.
Moira doesn't have to die She just has to have her mutant abilities removed before they manifest.
I think she's going to have a change of heart get her powers back and sacrifice herself. That would reset reality like it has every other time before.
The only difference being with this reset she removes her mutant abilities before they manifest at the age of 13 (Don't forget she knows how to do this has never forgotten and at the same time never recreated that technology up until now) so therefore she never gets involved with Professor X Apocalypse Magneto Sinister ECT... none of them and mutants are left to their true destiny without any intervention.
This would give the X-Men a true reboot and real hope for the future. Moira could go live out her life as a human away from all of this drama which is what she wants.
It's a win-win situation for everyone involved. Also, without Moira involved with the X-Men things are going to be radically different. Many things that took place will have never happened. Proteus will never be born. Legion will never be born. Magneto will never have been manipulated by Moira after the stranger reduced him to a child which means Onslaught will never manifest because Professor X will never wipe his mind. Wolverine will never have the adamantium ripped from his bones. Vulcan and his team of mutants will never sacrifice themselves to save The original team from Krakoa. There's so much to unpack if Moira simply never does anything. No Ahab to create his hound program because he would have never lost his leg. The more you think about it the more changes there will be.
The cost? No knowledge of the mutant resurrection protocols. The cost is their immortality. A price I'm sure all of them are willing to pay because all of the good that would come from Moira simply never meddling in mutants affairs far outweighs any good that she did. 🤓
I much prefer the Moira flip, especially since the heel turn really felt out of left field.
@@Professor_Professoron Yeah that never sat with me right either. She was hurt and she had her reasons but I really don't see her as a villain. Deep down she's always been a good person in regards to her character and I think that part of her will rise above the rest by the end of Fall of X.
I kinda feel bad for Moira ngl. Your right the outcome will be interesting. I have a theory that the Magnus family might possibly rise again. Wanda and Pietro go back to being his biological kids again. Not mutants but Max and Magda’s children. And Wiccan and Speed get confirmed to be mutants again. That’s just my theory but yeah. We’ll see lol
@@Key_kiwithere's a partial fix for all of the Magneto children piece. I've grudgingly accepted that Wanda is not his, but there's a work around for Pietro to still be Magneto's biological son AND still her twin. It would explain why her bloodline spell affected Pietro but not Max.
I'm hoping some day some writer discovers and works in something called "heteropaternal superfecundation" or "heteropaternal twins" (where a mother ovulates two eggs in the same cycle and two different men happen to fertilize each within days of each other - or a clinical process from two different donors does).
That's the way back for Quicksilver (although he could have been a mutant regardless of parentage had they allowed it)
@@bajansamurai See I don’t think they’d do that, Wanda and Pietro have to both his biological kids or what’s the point. It would get a lil confusing but I get you and that’s a very interesting premise. I have a feeling since it’s nearly 10 years since this retcon, it’s possible it could happen this year. Billy and Tommys reincarnation origin is messy enough, I don’t think it would be wise for that decision tho. Although it is interesting. Wanda can be darker skinned and still be his daughter. I think what it comes down to is this….. they’ll wanna idea that profits the most and retconning them bck would do that imo. I mean it’s iconic family. Also taking away two holocaust survivors as their parents, ain’t a good luck still 😅
But you do bring up an interesting idea, I just don’t think they’d do it ha
Meh I liked what Hickman did with Moire but they pretty much ruined the character after he left
That part.
I'm pretty sure Manifold will be involved somehow. He will be the one that returns the mutants from the White Room and possibly in an alternate timeline as well. Instead of killing Moira, why not kill the original Nathaniel Essex before he created clones of himself instead?
That's a really good idea! Destiny and Mystique did kill his original body but he had uploaded his mind into that computer program. If they killed him earlier then none of this would have happened.
@@roguefrogger5823 @rjhemedes Killing Essex before cloning will simply amount to being an alternate timeline because the Enigma dominion already collected data from other timelines via the Moira Engine 'save point' ability to make himself exist outside time and space.
They'll be free of Sinister, Orbis, etc. but the Dominion will continue to exist. Their theory is that removing Moira removes the mechanism for saving data and making any of those timelines in the first place, or at least preventing any data from one of them from coming back from the future and increasing the Essex AI's knowledge on how to become a Dominion. Either way, stopping Moira (or neutralizing her powers before they activate) would be the required first step.
After that, Essex may still achieve dominion at a later point though (considering it required Mother Righteous receiving 1000yo data to accomplish it via the White Hot Room), so then they still have to find him and take him out.
Either it all fails and a different plan is needed altogether, or they are basically explaining that this whole event leads to the "true" timeline we know with a seemingly non-mutant Moira.
Irl reason is because Moira is less popular. Comic reason my guess would be since he exist outside of space and time he would never let that happen
The should kill both... Just in case... 🤣
The Dominion would prevent it, as it wants to preserve its causality. It already killed a Sinister Clone (Immortal X-men #1) and the original Sinister after it created the four clones to do so (IMX#8).
They actually don't have to kill Miora. They could just take away her mutation and make her human the way they did on Krakoa
today is my birthday
Liked them finally saying Charles has unlocked TK
Shot in the dark here but what if end of story Moira becomes a new Dominion. In a way that she can end her storyline, protect mutants in her own way . I mean she really only developed hate because of them constantly losing in previous lives. Being a dominion would override that somewhat. I don't expect her to put mutants on top only for them to have enough plot armor to not be destroyed 😅
That was always my thing with Moira. If she's really got the memories of all that time, wouldn't she eventually become blase with mutants vs humans vs robots?
Wouldn't her pov overcome such temporary mindsets?
Dollars to donuts one of those redacted names is magneto
Wait wait wait?! Kamala is captain krakoa now?
I get the feeling Moira is going to end up ending herself. As long as i remember reading X-men (which is a long time) Moira has always been a background character that they bring in to kick off an event or use as a opposition or gets sacrificed for the greater good (Muir Island saga, Age of X, Legacy Virus, etc) and when I reflect on the Krakoa era, it just came out of nowhere. Cyclops had just lost an eye. Wolfsbane had just killed herself. Emma had erased mutants from the world’s memory. And then BAM! We’re in the Krakoa era with no explanation. It almost feels like it was never meant to last in retrospect. I feel like a Secret Wars 2015 ending is coming. I feel like the characters that everyone liked or tested well amongst audiences will be back like Rasputin and not everyone will remember the Krakoan era except a few people so in a few years we can have a return to Krakoa special event. I really hope I’m wrong, but the Krakoan age, to me, feels like it’s going to be the new Age of Apocalypse for nostalgia sake🤷🏻♂️
That last panel gave me the same feeling. The big reset
An easy out for X is to simply remove her X-gene, like they have done to the current Moira, before her powers manifest. That way, they don't need to unalive her and she can just live as a human like she did before the House of X retcon.
Great recap. Thanks. There needs to be a twist. Killing Moria is such an easy out. Take me back to the days when real heroes didn't kill. How do the dead mutants come into this plot?
Jesus yes, thank you. I'm so tired of "heroes" who are so morally ambiguous that they constantly cross the line.
An easy out for X is to simply remove her X-gene, like they have done to the current Moira, before her powers manifest. That way, they don't need to unalive her and she can just live as a human like she did before the House of X retcon.
An easy out for X is to simply remove her X-gene, like they have done to the current Moira, before her powers manifest. That way, they don't need to unalive her and she can just live as a human like she did before the House of X retcon.
Wouldn't stopping Moira before her powers kick in at age 13, have a profound change in the entire Marvel 616 world? This is like the DC resets that past, current and future relationships/futures not have existed at all? Not only that, if multiverse worlds without the touching of Spiderman, Fantastic Four and others totally blink out? There are aspects of Krakoa that I loved and other aspects that I hated but resetting the 616 world impacts the multiverse/otherworld's story arcs. It totally blows up everything, which I find disturbing in some ways. With all the characters of Marvel 616 heroes/villains, could it not be easier if Xavier/Elixer/Tempus could have mindwiped Moira/have Elixer or Forge remove Moira's mutant power before coming out at the same time, allowing her to perish and resurrected via mutant protocols, of no memory of past plus no mutant powers, replacing original Moira and thereby, no mutant knowledge and her living a completely human life with Banshee as a normal scientist in love with Banshee, even wiping out Destiny's knowledge of Moira? Seems like with a combination of several interfering it would eliminate that potential rewrite.
Oh I went into that on my comment if you search for it's here. Take a look and give me some feedback I'd really appreciate it because I thought like you did that everything and I mean everything without Moira would be drastically different. Certain characters would never exist and others would. Certain things would never happen which means that events like Wolverine getting his adamantium pulled out by Magneto would never have happened because Moira would have never messed with an infant magneto. The list just keeps getting bigger and bigger the more I think about it.
I get why Xavior didn't want to tell Rasputin 4 about the plan.
I will die on this hill alone, but I detest the idea of just going back to the mansion. It's tired. It's lazy, and it's just re treading old ground. I've spent over 20 years as an X-men fan with the status quo. They finally do something of a noteworthy change just to go back to basics is just disappointing. Maybe it will be more than what it's looking like. I hope so. Just gotta wait and see.
Same. I'm paraphrasing Hickman : While coming back to the status quo makes sense for most of Marvel's characters (Avengers for exemple), X-Men are about evolution and should never look backward.
@@christopheouvrard8548 yes. Damn right. They better do something really good with this...... Reboot🤮. That word makes my stomach turn. I really don't see if they are going back. How they could do anything innovative. I just don't want to see another days of future past, or another mutant massacre ect. I think you get the point. I just got a bad feeling we got some nasty rehashing coming up. For the love of everything X-men I hope I'm wrong
Almost 90k. You deserve it and so much. Thank you for your hard work
Can't forget that Avengers X-Sanction was also the crossover storyline that brought Cable back from the dead
My only complaint is that Sync does not seem to be able to use a healing factor to keep him de aged like Wolverine. But comics.
Killing her will not only effect Krakoan Age but anything she was involved throughout comic book history. Like trying to find a cure for legacy virus. This would effect marvel universe, any non mutant allies would have their history change too do to them being involved in X-Men’s story arcs. I don’t see this happening
They'll probably give pre-teen Moira that cure from Otherworld who's name escapes me for the moment and give her some telepathic suggestions since I think she was part of the X-Men being founded. That she goes back to being human Moira.
That beat in the background slaps!!😎👍🏿
Am I the only one who is excited for the new era? Things have been a little messy since Hickman left, and if Simone is in fact the new writer for the man X book, sign me up
I can't be excited (yet) for the next era since we have zero information on it.
And while I am in favor of closing properly the Krakoa era instead of having it linger too long, I will miss it.
I hope some of its concepts will survive in the next era. Hopefully, the new era should build on it, ans not simply ignore it :)
Doug was out of pocket, giving Rasputin 4 complaints when he shouldn’t have spared Moira in the first place; during Inferno, no good deed goes unpunished
So... was that Matthew Malloy story just before the big "reset, and start our new big things" event with Secret Wars 2 just to warm readers up to "if we come up against a reality warper of such grand magnitude, our only solution will be to either kill them, or try to neutralize their mutant gene before it is able to manifest"
Assuming Apocalypse is dead in the 10+ year timeline yet Synch was able to synchronize with his aura via Demiurge (as the High Evolutionary assessed Synch uses his powers) right as it contains his aura? Can he not synch with a Moira aura via the same way or at least a Moira clone aura and end it by going back to his initial rebirth? Its contradicting how Omega Sentinel keeps saying mutants always win and Moira lived several lives where they lose, just shows how this lady made really bad choices in her last 9 lives. Getting rid of Moira gets rid of Proteus damaging the 5 circuit, unless Jamie fills in or Wanda or Franklin?
Solicits for Steve Foxe's "Dead X-Men" mention Rachel Summers working with Xavier to fix the timeline. So, she might be one of the blocked out names.
That's my belief too. She was Mother Askani, she has temporal powers, she was linked to the Phoenix Force, and she is unique in the multiverse.
Not using her for a time and space multiverse war would be criminal !
Daaaaang!! This some Terminator, Age of Apocalypse type stuff! Woo, talk about a hard reset! This should be fun!
I doubt Irene/Destiny is dead as hinted by Mystique. Not with her beef with Moira.
She's not dead
@@keemkeem3820 that’s what I think.
This is a series of future events that are ahead of all the White Hot Room stuff, but in that Elixir saved her from dying after Mother Righteous stabbed her. This implies that over the 10 years between then and this, she got killed (as far as Mystique knows)
They don’t need to kill Moira. Just need to make her X-Gene never activate.
There also somthing else this "reset" does if it undoes Krakoa... it potentially erases Wanda's redemption with the mutant population, as well as any other non mutant character growth or cool stories tied to the mutants during this era. We don't see Cap and his Uncanny Avengers standing together against Orchis and Hydra Cap. We don't get Tony, Emma, and Kamala against Fei Long, Storm and Erics arc on Arrako, or Apoclypse (the last two of which, I enjoyed the most😅). Things like that.
The Future Moira, which I just realize now, happens to have Karima’s tech onto her body. Oddly enough, the Phalanx covering the upper half of her face, is referencing to Karima’s heritage mask. So possibly, we should’ve known that Moira is fused with Karima in X Deaths of Wolverine.
Technically they don't need to kill Moira as much as just make sure she doesn't manifest her mutant gift so if they manage to use that tech that makes mutants human they could probably prevent timeline resets and not kill her. Honestly not sure why Charles wouldn't go with that option.
Who here after watching X-Men 97 Episodes 5 and 10
Moira is Rabid, you have to put down an animal who’s rabid.
So we get Doctor Stasis reach Dominion attempt
Now I want to see Orbis Stellaris attempt next
I somehow thought it was considered to be the World Farm that Storm stopped in the Sins of Sinister timeline, but I guess they may still plan to show a version where he got to hit the on switch yet still failed.
Orbis in Red Diamond timeline: has to build the Worldfarm up for 100 years, gets it stolen from him, immideately kills himself instead of trying again.
Orbis in another timeline: casually achieves Dominion attempt in 15 years.
Uhhhhhhhhh.
@@Volthoom TBF in the red diamond timeline he spent a few decades getting really into marvel snap
Killing sinister activated the Moria Engine and rebooted the reality .....the X-Men were banking on his "Fail Safe'
It's a reverse terminator plot with mutants as Skynet going back in time to kill a teenage Moira as john conner
Sync shouldn't be able to use powers of Apocalypse. Those powers come more from celestial technology and the techno- organic virus. More modern Marvel quality writing
If Moira never exist does that mean proteus also never exist so mutant resurrection is gone
Loved this issue...definitely up there in terms of keeping me turning pages...also - Dr. Stasis just reminds me of Destro with a Cobra Commander mask, right? lol
I just seen the cover for Issue 3. lol Somebody got a gun pointed straight at her face and shes appalled lol
Why can't Synch heal himself after using someone's Powers, like Wolverine's healing factor or even recall Elixir's healing abilities?
The fact that he's going straight to murder versus just deactivating her mutant gene...
The only thing that would make Nimrod and Omega Sentinel more deadly is for Ultron to secretly join them.
I really wanted that to happen but Ultron is different he would betray them. His ultimate goal would be to become the dominion himself. I will say Marvel missed an opportunity to bring all their machine folks together.
The X-books kinda have to pretend that Ultron doesn't exist, otherwise the Sentinels' shtick of "hurr durr look at us we're the most powerful and dangerous AI humanity's ever seen" kinda gets thrown out the window :D.
@@Volthoom Fair enough
@@keemkeem3820 Good point
Keep on your grind fam. The cream is gone rise to the top!🔥
If Sync power ages him, how did he keep it active for as long he did in the Vault with X-23? Like, is it only omega lvl abilties that age him?
I took me until this issue to relize these no-places are references to God Emperor of Dune. Well played X-men well played
If you read Sophia Stewart's Matrix Resurrections script you can see where this is going...
Xavier still has Sinister in his head, so I wonder if they created an organic time machine with the DNA of the 5.
Since Manifold's power is talking to the universe, I think it's a fair assumption Cypher could mimick his abilities. Cypher speaks to Krakoa and is one of few people who can speak to that sentient being. Therefore having the universe act as a sentient being, who can receive commands and respond, means Cypher need only learn the language Manifold speaks in. Though it seems Manifold speaks in plain English to the universe there is most likely some other variable involved and once figured out, this would be easy to manipulate IMHO.
This is making my head spin.
The art is amazing in this issue. Pepe Laraz if I’m correct? This issue harkens back to the beginning of the Krakoan era. I’ve been woken back up. Let’s go!!!!
So does manifold have a direct link to eternity or infinity? It’s infinity isn’t it?
Trickster Titan=Cypher+Kakoia+Warlock fusion
I really hope we don't get dropped in a 616 redo/but also things are different thing where nobody has to worry about context or canon because there's a bunch of flashback retcon that can explain everything.
So they are murdering Mora after making her villain.
They already destroyed her character enough. Why not go all the way.
Maybe the two missing mutants that are outside of time and space are Mr. Sinister and Mother Righteous. Either those two or Obis Stilarus and Mother Righteous. Those are my guesses. Tell me what you all think.
Arnold Schwarzenegger going to a Masseuse for a Happy Ending
I was really hoping that tony stark bot was just a mature orphan maker
Such in a Wheelchair..Gambit Dead..No Storm..No Marvel Girl..No Interest
The Krakoa era was great, but there was so much more they could have done.
To be honest I like the Krakoa era and we have see so many dead and de-powers mutants and ex villains like Tempo and Daken to be allies of X-men and all that’s doing to delete and is pity. I like that
SMASH DA 👍 BUTTON EARTH'S MIGHTIEST SUBSCRIBERS ..
You know, Moira gets born with her memories of the past... so even if they find her as a 8-year-old. She is going to be a 8-year-old that learned to be a murder machine. The only question is how does she remember her 10th life and what happens in it.
X-sanction was a great story. Cable was on that 🐂
One Question i always have is why doesn't Dominion work w/Ultron to cull Humankind 🤔
Personally I'm sad to see Krakoa go. So many intriguing ideas that won't see the light of day.
Arakko truly growing past the revolution era.
Questions surrounding The Crucible and what it means for religiosity for Mutants.
Resurrection of mutants on their wishes into bodies of different ages and even powersets or appearances.
Cyclops' and other mutants odd malleability during Krakoa and the possibility of their having been sort of lobotomized into following tons of policies that feel against their character after resurrection. (I was positive this was coming)
Just more slice of life into mutants who dont get to just live.
Storm finally giving Death a chance!
Don't know about everyone else, but I always liked the iasues where no fights happened and the X-Men just chilled as friends.
Agreed I'm the same. Grand Morrisons New X-Men was great because of the same reason: mutants were catching a break and finally winning and violence was at a minimum.😅
Also the Krakoan Age should be legendary because the Island is literally the answer to all our climate change and geopolitical problems: a carbon negative society that has nature as part of it's government and former good guys and there enemies overcoming their problems with one another and trying to make it work! Sounds like the real world could only learn from that.😊
So with this whole eraser does that mean storm will be back to hee background, and the other Arakko mutants being sealed? Also does this effect the avengers as well
Phalanx Moira was killed by that Wolverine
Wait what if all the little sides and fourth wall sinister secret blurbs we have seen across the Krakoan story where actually from Enigma speaking To Us the reader not the sinister we thought it was
Moira is going to become Omega Sentinel...
Is the dominion the same thing as the phalanx?
Whatever happened to Danger?
What if this doesn't reset the timeline, but puts us right BACk on the regular timeline we were reading before HOXPX and the story just before it began. If they go back in time, they won't Kill Moira, but turn her human by preventing her powers from ever coming into effect, thus, the human Moria we always knew before HOX/POX is the one who helps the X-Men then dies from the Legacy Virus normally, so we return back to square one continuity.
Maybe there is something to the way Moira dead in her second life.
If they undo/soft reboot does that mean Jean never gets the Phoenix force back?
krakkao is definitely an omega level mutant imo
The Trickster Dominion. Do you think it is Warlock?
You know what? I was thinking earlier why not just get Curse to end Orcus
Synch should actually physically appear to be in his early to mid 30s, not 20s as his future takes place 10 years from the current timeline
@ Ernie/Blerd; I just had the illest idea, b. What if the whole thing is cyclical? Let me explain. Dominion/Enigma has existed outside of time forever; so has King in Black/Venom/Knull/Meridius/Eddie Brock etc. You know what powers them? THE ENIGMA FORCE!! Captain Universe yo!! Imagine that's where the Eventuality was going......then again, I don't even know if you read Venom. Would be crazy though.
Pains me to see this era end. Looking at the future issues like Forever, I think its obvious what they will do again to Jean. Brevoort taking over as Editor, he hated Jean when she was dead a decade or too ago. Do the math
Why didn't Synch just sync Moira's powers? When your power is functional immortality, aging isn't much of a nerf.
IIRC Moira's power is kinda invisible to other mutants. It probably can't be synched by others mutants. Which is good, because it would turn this hot mess in a terrible mess IMHO.
So no matter what future there is mutants lose in the end period.
Good 😊
We not going back into mansion Idc
that image of cipher and krakoa in a no-place blk and red what issue is that
How did Emma mask the rest of the team while in diamond form…let alone against Nimrod??🧐😂
She didn't. The X-Men can somehow use the Inhuman gene to mask then X-genes from Orchis detectors, IIRC.
Where is Darwin, Gateway, and Manifold?
Plotholes.
The answer is to GIVE MOIRA THE CURE BEFORE HER MUTANT ABILITY MANIFESTS.
Would I be wrong in thinking that, if they are successful in killing young Moira, then they wipe out completely the Krakoan age & undoing all of the character growth, development, and feats of Storm that finally gave her the props and put respect on her name that she deserved (putting her back into the background/2nd tier/support status to the Jean and Cyclops main characters trop)...???
I truly wanted mutants to move on to Mars/Arrakko and build their own unique society there and leave base humans on earth... using the mansion as a contact point for any new mutant born on earth and recruiting them to go to Mars... 🤔
Why didn't you talk about the Enigma being the Enigma Crown mentioned in Defenders 5 by the One Above All? If I remember correctly it becomes so powerful that it can even destroy the One Above All. It's safe to say killing Moira would only be a temporary solution as all the sinisters were out way before her.
Why the hell did the TOAA create something that could destroy themself?
@@ContagiousSponge They didn't create it that's why it chose to call itself Enigma. No one understands it and how it came to be so strong. It was a total mystery before the current X-men run no knew how it even came into existence. What we see in the X-men comics is it's baby form basically it's nowhere close to being the Enigma Crown as yet.
@@keemkeem3820 Why haven't they gotten rid of it? Is it too powerful?
@@ContagiousSponge But then again the celestials created the being that created the beyonders who could destroy the celestials. So I wouldn't say foolishness like that isn't something TOAA would do too. But the incursions that the beyonders cause that led to "secret war" were to stop the Enigma.
@@ContagiousSponge I'm not sure it hasn't been explained as to why.
Oh Marvel, if you keep escalating your stories eventually they become incomprehensible.