Hey everyone! Thanks for watching, this was a big video that took literal months to make but I hope you enjoyed it. I have a few credits and acknowledgements that I wanted to post here. ▶ A huge thank you to Dave from ComicBookHerald for joining me on this video. CBH are a terrific website and a great resource for reading orders, editorials and comic news. Be sure to check their site out here: www.comicbookherald.com ▶ If you want more Hickman X-Men content, I highly recommend For Every Kind of Geek's series of videos on the entire Krakoa era (from HoX/PoX all the way to Inferno). Watch it here: th-cam.com/video/-3ybsiDdeTU/w-d-xo.html ▶ If you enjoyed this video, consider supporting Owen Likes Comics on Patreon: www.patreon.com/owenlikescomics
With all that is said about the X-Men., It's really still the same story. The X-Men are still losing. They haven't really evolved to a better place because the rule of kill no him a is dumb. Even for Xavier. It's db. No leader who has been through what the mutants have been through would do that. And the ones that do die. As professor X did. Why do we even still call him professor? What has he taught us that is beneficial for the mutants? That you can live in peace with the murders at your door? That's not how that works. And to have the person who set you on the path of Krakoa be the ultimate betrayer in a long line of successive betrayers (beast, selene etc) why are standards for peace still there. I think the story of the sinister gene being in all the mutants and seeing what could be done is great. Introducing all those mutants from Arrako, creating a new home for them on Mars and then murdering mostly all of them was atrocious. Characters like Bishop, Gambit even Rictor, have become these one dimensional monotone non entitys. Archangel? Where the hell is Archangel? They returned him to semi playboy trope? The thing I realize is that comic lovers, especially the ones who grew up with the X-Men, don't ever really want to speak on the obvious. For you guys who have channels about comics, it makes sense. You make money this way. I get it. But it doesn't make it any better. But I'm one guy whose outlook doesn't matter and I won't be commenting on these anymore. I'm tired. Like these story lines.
Hi Owen, rlly love ur vids and think it’s amazing how you’re able to make such high quality video essays about comics(one of the only ones imo). I’m writing a school paper about the Avengers comics, and was wondering what your process was to write these incredible essays(seemingly with ease). Would rlly appreciate the insight and excited for the next vid!
@@aagreenidge Sadly, I agree with you. I think Owen is in danger of drinking the same Koolaid that Dave from Comicbookherald and so many others have drunk. Jonathan Hickman is perhaps the most overrated writer in Marvel comics history. Don't get me wrong, he's not as bad as Brian Michael Bendis has become and he actually has a few good ideas. But in many ways, all he's done is slap a new coat of paint on Chris Claremont's, John Byrne's and a few other creators' genius. With the exception of drugs to cure human illnesses and establishing a mutant civilization on a mutant island, a lot of HoX/PoX is just a regurgitation of Days of Future Past and Grant Morrison's New X-Men. And not in a way that elevates the past material. And in case you hadn't noticed, X-Men crossovers still only really affect X-Men books, not the rest of the Marvel Universe (with the exception of the Eternals, but really, who cares about them?). What did X of Swords really affect? Or the Hellfire Gala or A.X.E.: Judgment Day?
6:00 Funny is that the same Fans that complained about that still supportet Fox Movie Garbage! And that was the Reason why X Men were put to the side ! Why should Marvel make storys and then let Fox destroy them and their idiotic Fans even celebrate that, like with DoaFP and Old Man Logan? You COMPLETELY ignore what happened in the Real World, everything that happen there had its reasons in the real world. So was the try of Marvel, to first establish Inhumans and then Eternals as "replacement" (Even when both, Eternals and Inhumans exist longer than the X Men) . You Logic is flawed because you don`t include everything!
I think its understated just how vital pepe larraz's art is to the revitalization as well. I honestly cant see any other artist bringing hickman's story to life the way he did
I gotta say, reading these 12 issues was the most fun I've ever had following comics. It is an excellent story and a much needed revival that got everyone to talk about the X-Men again.
Hickman did the impossible. He not only somehow elevated X-Men from a title I had long since stopped caring about, but he's by far the only writer to come anywhere remotely close to rivaling Claremont. Personally, it's my favorite era of the X-Men. And as someone who was reading way back in the 80's, that's kinda wild.
@@Akkbar21 I don't think it's any messier than it's ever been. Immortal is great. Red is fantastic. There's a lot of cool stuff happening. If you're reading everything that's coming out...maybe it feels a little messy. I'm not 100% current on everything. But I think it's the best it's been in almost 20 years. Most titles are a lot of fun. And fun is why I read these books.
I absolutely love hickman and that was before i knew how much stuff he wrote that i loved like sheild and secret warriors he made me like the FF and his avengers secret wars run was almost perfection. My only regret is him not getting to fully finish his xmen run . MARVEL hand him the keys pay him well and let him give the over all direction of the whole thing PLEASE
Truly sux. I gave it a chance and now it's turned to crap. I stopped reading, now I just check out reviews every now and then. I hate Marvel. They don't know how to tell basic stories anymore.
Yeah. I have a strong suspicion that it would have ended with Krakoa falling in the end because of the mutants’ hubris and sketchy actions but I think I would like to have seen Hickman’s endgame regardless if it had been that predictable. Of course we are still getting many of Hickman’s ideas but filtered through other writers’ perspectives and it is a mixed bag. Once again we are in a situation where we look back at a major writer’s run and have to wonder what could have been if there was no interference from up high. We’ve had this issue with x-books since the 90’s when editorial/marketing took over. Now I’m just wondering how long the x-office keeps claiming that what they are doing at the moment is still part of those plans Hickman set up before he left. I suspect it will be as long as they think it will be profitable.
@@DarkChyld333 agreed. Immortal and Red are the best X books since house and powers. People who think it’s turned to shit obviously haven’t been reading it. The only bad thing I will say is the whole Moira plot was fumbled terribly but I place the blame on Benjamin Percy alone.
Mr. Hickman truly is the master of revitilization. His X-Men run reignited my own love for the X-Men full force. It was always there but it diluted until his run.
Most of the X-Men stuff is still the best in current comics, even if they don't sell as much as others that people mostly just buy because of sunk cost and wanting to keep up with the set... Like amazing spidey. X-Men Red, Legion of X, Immortal X-Men, Immoral X-Men (which is part of Sins of Sinister, along with Nightcrawlers and Storm - Brotherhood of Mutants) It's another go at an over arching story again, but over 3 books this time (and Immoral having it's own books as well, so technically over 4 books) I didn't realize they were all connected at first though so I only collected Sins of Sinister and Immoral X-men. I need to get the storm and Nightcrawlers books. EDIT: I forgot about X-Static/X-Cellent as well. These are great books IMO, and The X-Cellent have just had a second run start recently, too. They're not mainstream X-Men though, and totally different in style and premise.
Problem here is this... most people don't actually get it what Hickman did in fact with the X-men... Yes, he did indeed revitalized the X-Men comics, but by bring the very destruction of the X-Men, what Hickman, did in fact was kill most of the X-Men, or at least the most relevant ones, and then make drones linked in to a hive mind... the X-men literally had become POD PEOPLE, meanwhile, the rift between humans and mutants was never so wide... with several human organizations working to find a solution to the "mutant problem"... another thing that Hickman did was showing some more humanity on the other side of the equation, by making believeble human villains (not the cartoonish racist idiots that plague most of the X-men stories). The point where Hickman departed from the X-men, they were completely over, the only path FOWARD for them was follow along with the mutant x human war, and with the X-men, that were the only ones preventing this war, as the spearheads of it. WHen the folks on Marvel realize what Hickman did, was already too, late, YET, they did tried despite the fact that Hickman didn't let them any other choice.
I’ve never really read the X-Men and I sort of struggled to get into the Hickman run, but knowing what he’s done with the FF, it would’ve been cool to see his full story
Funny how in recent years they kinda shifted places, the inhumans being the ones left without a home and the x-men having their own nation. But yeah disney probably gave up the idea once they got the xmen on their hands again with the fox adquisition
@@DeusImperium Everyone says this and I really just don't get it. The books have barely gone down in quality. Hell, some of them have gotten better. X-Men Red and Immortal X-Men are the best two series' of all of Krakoa, including Hickman era. Legion of X has been excellent. Sins of Sinister is a really good crossover, on the same level as Inferno IMO.
Hoxpox is a masterpiece. Not only did it revitalize the X-Men, it was the first time in literal decades that a comic book had been the equivalent of “event television” where everywhere you went every comic book reader was talking about about the last issue and speculating on what was happening and where it was going. Even non-comic readers were aware that something huge was happening to the X-Men.
Something that you and Dave only briefly mention is the desire to have The Inhumans supplant the X-Men, and the reason for this not just being Fox/Disney, but Ike Perlmutter in particular. Perlmutter hated that they were printing comics as "free advertising" for competiting studios films, and so had Fantastic Four shut down. X-Men sold too well to shelve entirely, but it was substantially paired back, with the Inhumans being positioned to greater prominence. But things really go off the rails around 2015/2016. That's when Fiege demands independence from Perlmutter, and Marvel Studios becomes seperate from Marvel Entertainment. It's then when Perlmutter adopts his classic vindictive streak and attempts to more radically marginalize the mutants with stuff like IvX. Unfortunately for Perlmutter but lucky for us, the corporate winds once again shifted, allowing the X-Men to regain greater prominence (the catastrophic Inhumans tv show also helped).
Indeed. Good that it ultimately failed. For some reason these editors seem stuck with some silly idea if they make a certain character important, they will be beloved by fans. Then they seem confused it fails and they call the fanbase toxic. As if they are obliged to be forced characters down their throats. Kinda not realising that The X-Men became beloved because they were outcasts in the Marvel Universe and told excellent stories with appealing characters. The Inhumans were always nice, but essentially quirky C list characters.
You can say it was a bad thing because it basically erased X-Men from Marvel for a few years, BUT that was one of the main reasons Marvel got the film rights for the X-Men back lol. Had Perlmutter not been so greedy, X-Men would've remained the same and Disney would've never managed to buy Fox. If Disney had those balls again, they would do the same with Spider-Man and Hulk, but I doubt they'll try that anytime soon until they get back to the top of their field without depending on those characters.
@@radrno7 You're MASSIVELY overestimating the importance of comicbook sales if you think the X-Men's status quo in Marvel Comics played even a small role in Disney's $71.3 billion acquisition of 21st Century Fox. By far the largest reason Disney bought Fox was because they wanted a bunch of movie and TV content for Disney+ they were gonna launch soon, and if the X-Men, Fantastic Four and Deadpool did play a part in that it was cause those movies would fit in nicely with the other superhero movies on Disney+ while also opening those characters up for use in the MCU. Think about it: did Hickman's celebrated, multi-year run do any "free advertising" for the shitty Fant4stic movie? Did Duggan's popular run on Deadpool have any part to play in the success of the Deadpool movies, or Wolverine's status quo in the comics have any effect at all on the critical and box office success of Logan? General audiences don't give a flying crap about comics, and even comicbook fans will judge whether they'll see a superhero movie based largely on trailers, reviews, word-of-mouth, etc. Even if the X-Men had multiple incredible, genre-defining runs in the decade before the acquisition, not only would the sale still have happened, the cost wouldn't even have been a dollar more. The only difference would've been that Disney would've made a bit more money from comic sales during that period. Perlmutter's brilliant direction was a classic example of cutting off your nose to spite your face, and wouldn't accomplish anything if tried again with Spider-Man or Hulk aside from tanking Disney's own comic sales, and Sony/Universal being mildly amused.
Hickman is one of the great writers to emerge in the late 00's with his original indie work. He could be a great sci fi novelist if he wanted to. The way he can map out a storyline and explore concepts while developing new angles on age old characters is superb. His Fantastic Four run is the only time i actually liked FF.
The huge glaring problem with the storyline was the elimination of the X-men’s protagonists. When all of the mutants are on the same team, who do they fight? Silly enemies like ecoterrorist grandmas.
The old ladies were such a dumb idea. But we still had human enemies, machines, mutants who didn't join Krakoa, villains from within (Shaw, Sinister), Orchis (they were cool while Hickman was around), Genesis and the Arraki. A lot of the mutants' rise to power made it clear that they were also attracting a lot of enemies.
@@sourdough3533 none of the enemies were compelling. What made magneto the best nemesis for the X-men was the fact that from a certain perspective, he was right or at least you could empathize with him. Uniting the mutants was a betrayal of Xavier’s mission, since he was against segregation. The X-men segregating themselves was 100% the opposite of what they stood for.
@@mattskov2917 It took years of stories for Magneto to be compelling. But they've done work fleshing out Orchis, giving them legit reasons to be wary of mutants, and created a tragedy around the creation of Nimrod. The machines are also arguably compelling once we learn about Future Karima. As for the segregation, it NEEDED to happen. Mutants needed a space for themselves, because they'd literally die off without Krakoa. There's no way around it, humans treated them like dirt with or without Krakoa. And even then, not only did Xavier make "Don't kill humans" one of the cardinal rules of their nation, he even had a speech in one of Hickman's issues about how he still believes in peaceful co-existence. Krakoa wasn't about locking people out (though elements of that had to happen), it was about shoring up and defending your own before you could try and make peace with your enemies. Even before the first Gala, select humans (relatives and special guests) were allowed to visit and even live on the island. And they did make peace, sort of. Once Krakoa was more or less settled, they started opening up to people. Many exclusionary elements were acknowledged and rectified. We've seen the X-Men do a ton of charity work in various books. We've seen them work more and more with other books.
I mean. Just because a group of people are united doesn't mean there would be no infighting. Historically speaking there's always been more fighting and violence right after a revolution as there's often discourse on HOW a society is supposed to work and WHO'S going to lead. After the excecution during the French revolution there was a lot of murder and coupe's because of difference's in opinions and people being incredibly power hungry. To build or be inside a new community can be very messy and complicated as there'll always be different opinions on how something should be defined. I can see a potential story arc of them trying to figure out how to create a flourishing community. Discussing what a mutant community is or what it can be. How do they cope of simply existing after fighting for so long? That could be interesting to dig into.
Knowing Hickman and how he fused the avengers into a godlike operatic epic which ended as a tragedy, the x men run with him would have ended in a tragedy which would have sorts resulted in providing a way for them to return to the previous status quo with the ramifications of the ending still being felt. But man, the krakoa era is what you would call a fresh creative shakeup and made sure such shakeup affected their entire universe.
This series was so good that I was reading all 10 dawn of X books for a while. Sadly, real life got in the way and I haven't had a chance to read a comic run in about 3 years. But I fully intend to dive back into the Krokoa/Arrako era as soon as I can! I heard through the grapevine the X-Men freaking terraformed Mars and I'm so excited to find out how and why and where it all leads!
I was super excited for this video because I’ve been looking for someone to explain Hickman’s X-men and I’m glad it was you. Great video as usual Owen!! 💙
Watching this video is so bittersweet. The way this all crashed and burned makes it hard to appreciate the good parts of Hickman’s work. I was genuinely excited to read this whole run as it came out. 😢
Crashed and burned! Nah nah nah. Jordan White said Hickman left because the X-Office was doing so good! He left because he was happy that they veered violently away from his original plans! Don't you understand?! Hickman was onboard! We're just too toxic to see it. That was all severe sarcasm.
@@DonMegaPLP he left to get paid by substack. No hate on him. Get that bag. I just wish we’d got the obvious plan he laid out. If we disagree, that’s fine with me. Take care.
@@DonMegaPLP omg hahaha. I didn’t finish reading your comment and just reacted. You got me son. I will leave my comment up as a testimony to my shame. 😆
It really didn't crash and burn though, people gotta stop saying that and read X-Men Red and Immortal X-Men, easily two of the best comic series' ever, and on par with pretty much everything in Hickman's run
Completely agree with this video. Like you, I was a die-hard X-men fan since the early '90s. I stopped collecting comics by about 1998 but still would take a peek occasionally to see what was going on. There were some good stories but nothing that made me feel like I was missing out. When I heard about the major Hickman changes and hoped back with House/Powers of X and was absolutely blown away. The world-building, the respect paid to old characters and history, and new approaches to old characters and the reintroduction of others, it was absolutely amazing. I've been back on the X-titles ever since. Was sad to see Hickman leave but he left the X-stories on a great path. Currently enjoying the Sins of Sinister story arc. Great video!
Reading the series, I can already envision how this version of Xmen and mutants would manifest in MCU. with more mature and complex characters, and clearer focus and power levels, it would be a treat to see all this play out on big screens. I can also see all the current known Xmen actors ( James Mcavoy, Michael fassbender, etc) would be thrilled to reprise their roles in new light and fresh direction.
Read Chris Claremont's classic run which put X-Men on the map and turned it into a phenomenon, you'll find all the maturity and complexity you could ever want in a mainstream superhero title. In fact it pushed the limits of the genre in ways that have rarely been matched before or since. I haven't read the Hickman run to know how it stacks up, but if it's as mature and complex as you say then it would be a return to those qualities that the franchise lost after Claremont and Simonson, rather than something it hadn't ever had before.
I grew up an X-Men fanatic. I started reading the X-Men around uncanny X-Men issue 120 the Claremont era to me was the best era in comics ever. When the X-Men expanded from one comic to new mutants, Excalibur and X Factor I bought all of them. The original inferno saga is probably my favorite storyline in comics ever. Despite my love of the X-Men I think the run of comics after house of M is terrible, but I hate the Hickman era even more. I despise the nihilism of the series and the subliminal messaging throughout the story. The X-Men has always been a metaphor for racism and bigotry and Hickman’s only solutions for how different people can get along with different people is complete segregation or preemptive genocide. He portrayed several looks at the future, and every single one of them included a genocide first as the only solution to peoples differences It is a fictional depiction of the ideology that suggests the only solution in the West Bank would be Israel, killing every Palestinian, or the solution to racism in the United States is one group of people, figuring out a way to kill all of the other people first. It is a very dark view of the world, and has very little to do with how Stan Lee envisioned X-Men stories. You might like the stories, but they aren’t stories with the themes of the golden age of the X-Men
Hickman isn't endorsing these views. By making these the views of Moira and Orchis, he's implicitly stating they are bad. Through Cyclops sharing the secret of resurrection with the wider human population, the audience can see that there is a better, inclusive way. But, Xavier and Magneto exist in the Krakoan age to show how power and authority can transform them into the 'us versus them' mentality that Moira and Orchis hold. I don't think an audience needs to be outright told discrimination is bad, most every comic reader would agree with that, and through being more implicit with his themes, Hickman can craft a narrative about the dangers of authoritarianism seeping in and corrupting our seemingly utopian (Krakoa) societies. It's inherently political as X-Men always has been, but it's taking a look not just at the blatant xenophobia of the 80s but the more underground, not immediately threatening nature of right-wing politics and xenophobia in the 21st century. All in all, I understand why you may dislike this direction, but I'm glad they've taken it and hopefully it can speak more to a 21st C. audience.
Ironically, all the people who celebrate the idea of mutants - a perpetually persecuted minority feared by the world at large - going off and just forming their own nation ALSO seem to be the people who are currently marching in the streets wanting the destruction of Israel. Weird how that works out.
The good X-Men stories ended, in a way, with The Age of Apocalypse. They deeply reinvented the. X-Men Universe, even for a brief alternate reality, but they couldn't reshape the X-Men more than that after this event. Since then, the series have been more or less uninteresting.
I got to be honest, I wasn't a big X-Men reader or fan, but Hickman's House/Powers ignite an interest for the universe to now reading almost everything the Krakoan era has to offer from Dawn to the current destiny, there's no deny that PoX & HoX made me an X-Men fan 😀 P.D. Great analysis from the status of modern X-Men Comics to the creation and ideas behind what Hickman brought to the table 👏🏻
Same here, never read an x book besides Morrisons new xmen omnibus. The history is just to vast and complicated. But I jumped headfirst for hox/pox and it was a wild ride, that book made me an x men fan
I hadn't read a single X-Men comic before I read Hickman's run. I had only watched the X-Men animated series the year before. But Hickman sold me on the franchise as a whole, and made me understand why people love these characters
I haven't read much of Hickman's X-Men mostly due to feeling like I had to read all of the X books that took place after House of X/Powers of X. Definitely want to check it out though.
I'll be honest with you. I'm not really a fan of the Krakoan era because there's so many issues for me to be considered good. - It breaks the main purpose of the X-Men: You guys know the drill about Marvel's Merry Mutants. An analogy to minorities that show we all can coexist in peace no matter how hard society makes us to. Establishing a brand new country where the inhabitants are only mutants and act quite hostile to other nations who have a human population majority is something Pre-Claremont Magneto would do. And I'm aware about Genosha, Avalon, and many other "mutant paradises", but they weren't the main focus for the team or Charles's vision of the perfect world. - Most of the Council have a lot to answer for: Fine, I get it. The X-Men have accepted many of the members of their rogues gallery or people with a pretty disturbing past, such as Rogue (unintended pun, I swear), Rachel Summers, Gambit, Magneto himself, Sabretooth, the White Queen or Mystique. But they've shown how much they've grown. And, if they didn't (such as Sabretooth), they'll just be the dick they usually are and be either kicked out from the team or leaving on their own. But Xavier willingly accepting guys such as Apocalypse, the Black King or Mister Sinister in their ranks (as rulers of his new mutant nation, mind you) isn't exactly something he'd do. - Death is cheap: The classic ol' trope. Comic book characters just can't die, but at least some stories try to make you invested in it showing the consequences of a character dying. Hell, even the infamous Civil War II managed to make it. But nowadays, mutants are now god-like creatures who just can't die. If they do, they'll be resurrected as nothing happened in the exact same issue. Much like my first statement, mutants aren't "humans with powers" anymore. They're now gods who live in a way different society whose rules have nothing to do with the human being, making a reconciliation between the two races almost impossible. Think about it. Why can't I resurrect a loved one while the Krakoans can? We all know it's not fair and explaning this might be one of the most difficult tasks for a writer. - Moira MacGuffin: You know what I love about side characters on superhero comics? They're just like you or me, ordinary people who have a life or a job that got invested into the crazy mess that a superhero title is. Some might argue these characters are a little bit more flat than the others. And, while they're completely right, I don't see what's wrong with it. Side characters hardly have the character treatment a protagonist (or a villain, especially in the X-books) and that's completely fine, it's not like every character has to move the plot. Which is why Moira, a character that hasn't done really that much in the X-books suddenly becoming not only a mutant but arguably the most important mutant in the Marvel Universe just makes me laugh. Not only makes the character to get the spotlight for no reason but, in her case, she's now the main reason why the X-Men are a thing. Not Charles, who built the team to show that mutants and humans can live as a family, but Moira, who's lived in many lives that showed us how much the X-Men are needed for the mutants as some sort of "mutant protection squad". But, hey, at least this meant something. Just like you and the Herald said, the X-Men had little to no reason to be on the Marvel Universe anymore as they were trying their hardest to make them either as uninteresting as they can or just straight out killing their members by clashing with the Inhumans or any other menace. Nowadays they've found a spot where they can live happily ever after with brand new adventures, but I don't think this is the right direction for them. Not that it needs to change, of course, you just can't undo something you've spent a lot of time working on for the sake of nostalgia, right? But that's just my two cents.
Great video! I would rather Hickman focused on two issues for several years, as he did with Avengers and F4, instead of being the mind behind the whole process and writing just one continuous series, but the final result was great anyway. I was no longer excited to read X-Men comics until HOX/POX, and that gave new life to my interest, and it's still good.
That would be Bob Harass that killed the mutant line, everything since then has been various attempts at reanimating the corpse and keeping it shambling on.
Hickman and the others got me back into X-Men after years of so much of them being split all over the Marvel Universe, the mixed Bendis books, being messed up by the stupid Terrigen Clouds or how mid their relaunch was with with the first Gold and Red series. The Krakoa era has been a wild, interesting and actually good to read story arc so far.
I’m glad we’re in agreement that Astonishing, Jean Grey, and Blue were the best books in the post-“Nuhumans” era of Marvel’s X-Men comics. But for all its flaws, at least Gold finally gave us a wedding between Rogue and Gambit, after nearly thirty years of romantic tension.
Honestly, as an old X-Men fan of the 90's, EVERYTHING I've heard and watched and read about this Krakoa Era sounds absolutely appalling. It turned the X-Men into villains and completely justified humanity's hatred of mutants, at the behest of our own "for the 2020's" bored, cynical decadence and performative social justice dilettantism... People who've never suffered a day in their life turning to racism and violence for some kind of existential purpose. It's like Hickman channeled everything appalling about current society and current politics and crystalized it into the X-Men.
The funny thing is I actually stopped following the X-books following the conclusion of House of X and Powers of X. (Aside from the occasional Deadpool, here and there). Not out of a lack of quality, far from it, just that I could only follow so many books at any given time. Still, I’m very excited to see you give your thoughts on the beginnings of the Krokoa era of X-Men.
I would suggest reading Hellions (extra fun book), X-Men by Hickman, maybe Sword/X-Men Red by Ewing, Immortal X-Men by Gillen. For the love of God, skip X of Swords event.
Second what the guy above me said about reading immortal x-men. Also highly recommend his eternals which is also amazing and crosses over with the x-men in judgement day
@@looniemoonie5955 Thanks for saying this. I was wondering if I needed to read it or not, and with the ABSURD resale prices of X of Swords I was worried that I'd be missing something. Thankfully I just need to read Powers of X/House of X, Hickman's X-Men, Hellfire Gala, and Hickman's Inferno.
You can get the omnibus collections. They compile a large set of interconnected comics into a single graphic novel. I think there might also be a comic reading app where you just pay a flat subscription rate & have free reign of what comics you read digitally, but I'm not sure. A lot of people just read them for free online & hopefully at least buy the issues they really enjoyed.
It’s sad what they did with the x men and trying to replace them with the inhumans. They killed off mutants and made tons of more inhumans. I love the inhumans but they’re best when it’s the smaller amount of key characters in the royal family and the main inhumans. Just keep the main smaller cast of the inhumans and with the mutants have a growing number of them and a range of team sizes .
While I certainly appreciate some of the concepts Hickman brought to the franchise with House Of X and Powers Of X, the X-Men as a whole are so unrecognisable to me now that I no longer care to invest my time in the stories that have ridden Hickman’s coattails. I would say he reinvigorated the X-Men for readers who hung on through a decade of questionable turns for the brand, But to say he saved the franchise is incredibly far from the truth. Case in point it has been over three years after the fact and all this video could lend comment to was his initial 12 issue story from 2019. The X-Men have been little more than white noise and two mutant Met Galas since. I feel that the brand is travelling down the same road that it followed when Grant Morrison was at the helm. Eventually an editorial change will devise to go ‘back to basics’ and the line will be relaunched in the hopes it will attract the fans the ‘Krakoan Era’ has turned away. I’ll bide my time until that day comes....
0:52 That seems to be recurring thing with MARVEL Teams: "Transforming overlooked heroes into the company's biggest and most beloved characters". First the X-Men, then the Avengers. Then the Guardians of the Galaxy and And failling with the Inhumans
House of X is probably the most satisfying comics I have ever read. After years of directionless x-men story, Hickman arrive and wrote every good idea I could only dream off (I always wanted them to live on krakoa it just made so much sense). And on the other hand Power of X is one of the daring comics I have ever read, reframing the entire X-men history while still keeping the legacy of old story intact. Unfortunatly I felt like Inferno was an absolute disaster wich basicly ruined half of the good ideas of power and house of x and it complitly killed my intrest for x-men long term storytelling.
😂😂😂 "Saved the X-Men" 😂😂😂 It was the first story to be told post the Disney/Fox war. They were Marvel's best selling team for decades and would have continued to be if it weren't for the movie rights animosity.
Great Video! Krakoa era X Men is not very good for me. They basically stripped the humanity out of the characters and they have reslly overblown it with the ressurection protocols thing. Great video nonetheless, Owen. Big fan!
It felt like that was initially the point, that this would overall be a net negative for Charles & co and that it was leading to something bigger. But it seems like every other writer working with Hickman likes Krakoa as the status quo instead of the transitory phase. Hence Hickman leaving
@@turnbased608 That has been happening with other writers though. Go read Immortal X-Men #10 or X-Men Red #7 and it's obvious that Hickman wasnt the only writer who understood that Krakoa was bad. Krakoa is the refutation of Xavier's dream. It's giving up on integration and embracing separatism. Writers are engaging with this. They understand that Krakoa must come to an end. "On that day, he will martyr us all." However, on the other hand, Krakoa sticking around for a while is a good thing. Status quo in comics can be bad, yes. But we've had decades of the same exact X-Men status quo. Every shake-up is superficial, with just the details changing while the premise stays the same. Krakoa is a true fresh start. I'm not against it falling, as it's clearly gearing up for its final phase this summer with Fall of X being the final era after Dawn, Reign, and Destiny of X. But it's not bad for it to stick around, let the X-Men do something new, and nobody can deny, Krakoa is one of the coolest worldbuilding choices ever, and it's hella fun. As much as the storytelling and themes would be better if Krakoa falls, I could be content with a decade of Krakoa. It's a natural conclusion to the X-men who have always suffered from power creep. Having a literal goddess be one of the first characters introduced (giant size xmen, not uncanny #1 but still a very early issue) tends to do that. There have been jokes for decades about the sheer number of resurrections we've had of any character who ever dies. Just let them be gods. Let them be a nation of gods, who are humbled every day. It's the most compelling X-Men has ever been.
Awesome video guys!! I always turn to this channel for my comics history. Y’all are absolutely killing it. Keep up the good work 👍 P.S. need more Spider-Man content ;)
X-Men really feels like a separate universe from the Avengers. Most of the time, the mutants works a lot better without them, just dealing with anti-mutant sentiment. Evil mutants and murder bots are enough for such a setting. Moria is a great character and feels like the actual main character in the Hickman Era. Hickman is definitely the new Jack Kirby and I feel he revived the X-Men for the better.
@@Tormalima It feels really odd that super freaks of science accidents can be heroes but people born with powers can be treated as worldwide threats is bs
Marvel editorial staff seemed to have thought that too for the longest time. As the rise in event books, there was a rule that the X-Men weren't allowed to be involved too heavily in them.
I've been looking forward to this... As for the House of X and Powers of X: When I first heard this series being made, I had only just gotten back hardcore into comics thanks to you and Linkara, and one of my significant introductions to the comics was Jonathan Hickman's Avengers/New Avengers era, I read INFINITY, which was excellent, and then I decided to buy the original printing Omnibus runs of Hickman at a convention because waiting for the reprints in 2023 was asking too much. I hadn't known what was going on with X-Men or any of the DC/Marvel Contunities then, but when I read Hickman was coming back, and it was X-Men, my only response: TAKE MY MONEY! Also I recall two things regarding Hickman's return, one, it was said after X-Men, the last remaining big dream projects were at DC, and there were rumors heading into either year 2 or 3 of DC Rebirth, DC was contacting Hickman for a Justice League run. After Ultimate Invasion, his 'Sandman for The Marvel Universe,' and one last return to X-Men for Fall of X, hoping Hickman finally heads to DC and creates his next significant seminal era...maybe when The Justice League return after Knight Terrors? Also, The X-Men Krakoa era will be personal for me for one reason: I was at The Hellfire Gala Year 2 event watching Spider-Man fighting one of The Five to protect his Ex whose secretly a cybernetic Moria in control of her body with Emma Frost providing commentary...as Linkara would say, 'Because Comic Books.'
All I can say is that if you started with the X-Men of the 90s and the animated stuff, you don't know real X-Men. I suggest you read Chris Claremont's epic and unparalleled 16 year run and see what made them a franchise and a phenomenon. I don't know this newer stuff to judge it, but I do know that the Claremont era is why anyone even knows who the X-Men are and why it's not a forgotten footnote in cancelled comic history.
He honestly did save the X Men. An excellent soft reboot of the mutant timeline, a drastic and long lasting shifting of the status quo for Mutants in the Sociopolitical landscape of marvel, and a marvelous recycling of old characters, dropped plotlines, and forgotten or underutilized concepts.
That Orchis mission had me so emotional, Wolverine and Nightcrawler specifically. The Moira twist pisses me off. I wish Apocalypse was still involved as well. Sins of Sinister feels like it’s trying to continue Hickman’s ideas.
I suspect Sins of Sinister, in broad strokes, is part of Hickman's core plan. HoXPoX data pages hint at the Sins of Sinister events happening in a previous timeline - to a degree. When Hickman left, it's not so much that his plans were completely canceled, as put on hold. Hickman had the end state for this X-Men phase mapped out - he said as much. His goal was to leave the writers of the next era a better setting to work with rather than blow it all up. We've mainly been stuck in a holding pattern as editorial stretched this phase out in the middle. SoS seems to be the first stages of Hickman's planned ending kicking in.
I loved Hickman's FF and was thrilled by the Idea of him taking over X-Men, but HoX/PoX felt like a convoluted mess. Especially HoX felt more like an overblown Days of Future Past and (for me) it didn't get better from there. I mean I could totally see what he was gunning for (there was so much room for political intrigue, scifi, espionage, and super heroic adventures - and given the time-frame of the HoX, on truly epic proportions), but I just couldn't really care for the characters any longer. With the resurrection protocols, death felt cheap (not that it had much weight left in the Marvel Universe). The broken Xavier felt superfluous, next to the "trying-to-behave" - villains, and the X-Men felt more of a foreign body in the Marvel Universe than ever. But watching this video made me think about why it didn't work, and my guess is: The scale was to grand for my tastes. It was a BIG story, that either needed to be told in broad strokes, (leaving little room for small personal moments or single characters little time to shine), or needed to abandon the hope for a satisfying ending (and with Hickman's departure, we will probably never get "his" ending).
When HoX/PoX came out, it gave me the feeling of looking forward to the next issue just like the same giddy feeling I had during the Jim Lee run or the X-cutioner's song storyline.
So much to say! Shout out for getting Herald on here! If someone said House and Powers was the greatest Xmen story ever told, I couldn't argue with you them. It was the first time time in a decade the franchise didn't exist to suck off Wolverine. It's not so rare when a franchise can find a new direction and have it become good. It's a shame he wasn't able to see it through. Re-living it through this video was amazing. I see Xavier like Eren Yeager in Attack on Titan. I also think the Moira "change" at the end of Inferno was editorial. It makes no fucking sense. I don't think it was Hickman. I pretend like it was didn't happen.
As a primarily DC fan, I've always enjoyed X-Men waaaaay more than the rest of the Marvel universe, and to be honest, would be happier if they were in separate universes. Unpopular opinion perhaps, but what with all the mutants, and the superheroes, being a normal person in the Marvel universe must be quite a rarity.
200 thousand mutants on krakoa with very few worldwide due to the decimation, vs 8 billion on the rest of the planet. Even back when Genosha still had 16.5 million mutants, that's still a fraction of the human population. Being a normal person is NOT a rarity
This is the storyline that brought me back into Marvel. I was burnt out on manga & webtoons & depressed after losing two cats. X-Men had some gems in the 90s but the stories & the increasingly ugly edgy faux-anime art eventually turned me off. I absolutely love what they've done to Mr. Sinister, I went from not giving a shit about Betsy Braddock to reading every series she's in, I loved X of Swords, I really miss X-Factor, X-Men Red & Immortal X-Men were amazing with incredible art, the Sabretooth series had great storytelling, I got to know & love Logan's kids, I miss Kid Cable & Kid Omega, & Krakoa was just really appealing.
18:58 I just thought about this… if Cyclops had his body restored would he no longer have those issues with his powers since he has a new body that hasn't had the head trauma he suffered as a kid.… that would be cool to see a cyclops in full control of his powers or a nice side story of him training to control his powers
This really got me to like the Xmen as they squared up and declared "We will crush you and leave you to rot in peace" But i hate Mystique and the Destiny of X stuff that doesnt feel natural but the Writer crew dragging it out. I like the Total War and both sides trying to get a edge or counter the other, it was fun and made the whole line feel alive.
I'm so glad you did this video, this run brought me back to the X-Men and although Hickman is gone, it's been a wild ride since it started. I'm quite afraid at what Marvel is going to do now that they announced "Fall of X"
I'm assuming they'll do what Hickman always intended to do and end krakoa and use it to transition into a new era of X-Men. This isn't something to dread, it's what was always meant to happen. Krakoa is the exact rejection of the ideals the X-Men always stood for, of integration and peace. it's the embracing of Magneto's separatism and Apocalypse's ideals of superiority. Now, those two have become noble men, and Magneto died the most honorable death imaginable, but we still need the X-Men story there to stand as a shining beacon of hope, for the dream that someday even the most oppressed groups can become accepted and loved
If that's of any reassurance, fall of x is not meant to be the end of Krakoa. At first it was going to be called "Autumn of X" but the writers thought it wasn't impactful enough of a title. We're going to see the continuation of this story still.
was an avid fan from the byrne years up to about maduriera's run. not a fan of the new stories, or the idea of mutants separating themselves from humanity. that said, pepe larraz' art has been excellent!
"Thanks for taking the series and making it into something worth talking about. Now we're going to go back to what wasn't working before." - Marvel every time one of their titles gets a successful revamp.
I said it before and I'll say it again. This not only was the Shot of the X Gene the Xmen comics have needed for over a decade but it also finally made me understand what a disservice the Fox Universe interpretations of these characters have been. Everything from the Character Dynamics and Relationships to the Costumes to the Prejudice and enemies they've faced has been so stripped down and barren its a shame. This comic made me a Cyclops fan because he is the closest thing to being Mutantkinds Version of Captain America in my eyes,a hero so respected and revered by both his Allies and Enemies and is the living embodiment of all of Charles Ideals in one person. One of my favorite moments is seeing Charles Xavier and Magneto come together as allies and the mission Cyclops leads with his Xmen to destroy the Master Mold Machine orbiting the Sun.
He did but.. I have a feeling this will End up being a dram like scenario and tie it back to the original Krakoa then end it with a battle world then reboot
Hickman is my all time favorite writer: he did an excellent job with the 3 main marvel teams (Fantastic Four, Avengers, X-Men) and now he's writing 2 new books that seem really cool (ultimate invasion and gods)
Hickman to me brought back what I love about the X-Men that was lost while there were a million lets kill all the mutants events. A few runs I enjoyed during that time, namely Laura’s Wolverine run and the 2018 generation X run, most of them didn’t stand out that much to me. Hickman give me that wonder when I first read Giant Size X-Men as my first comic book, he gave me the feeling that I was reading a story about a group of people who want to change the world. That was always the X-Men to me, they wanted to change the world for the better, and he gave it back to them.
I know I’m late to this/ don’t know if anyone else commented this but you got a cameo from SAL!!! I’m a fan of both you, Owen but Comic Pop so much love to you guys!
HoX/PoX just started its release in Germany after the first lockdown in May 2020, and while the few comic books I owned, were mostly X-Men, I originally didn't have interest into going back to them. But my vendor was good at his job and convinced and so I bought every book from the X line that was available (either from Germany or imported). It is the most brilliant series in current times. And while Destiny of X is slowly moving forward here in Germany (along with the AXE event), I already can't wait for Fall of X. P.S.: Are you going to make a video about Inferno, too?
I thought the Decimation was a mistake. If mutants are now suddenly mostly gone, most anti-mutant people would be declaring victory and forgetting about them. Then Cyclops who was slowly ruined from the start of X-Factor, is now a villain after he was the top X-man. Too much. I was out.
Tom Taylor's X-Men Red was incredible except Marvel shut him out/down. I find Jonathan Hickmans story plot-driven like all the male writers have been except Chris Claremont and Tom.
Except he didn't. He started a really interesting story and then left without finishing it. So now we have a great story they refuse to end because they aren't good enough to do it
I'd like to read these comics... but what I've heard happens later on is a major turn-off. Doesn't help that I'm sick and tired of superheroes not acting heroic. I just want my escapism, damnit! 😠
Good video. I enjoyed it. I disagree with your conclusion that Inferno was a satisfactory conclusion. Hickman’s departure clearly robbed us of his planned story’s conclusion. Thanks for enjoyable video. 👍
Hickman revived my love for the X-Men and HoX and PoX are a testament to why IF YOU WANT YOUR CHARACTERS REFRESHED OR A COMPELLING AND MULTI LAYERED STORY YOU GET HICKMAN
Oh sure that's what we said about the Ultimate universe as well, and then he dropped it hard when he was offered to write Avengers and main control over 616.
Discovered your channel w/your video on Morrison's X-Men (which I loved!) and was So excited to hear your take on Hickman's run. Just like with Morrison, you have done Exceptional work! I Loved this video; thank you very much.
Hey everyone! Thanks for watching, this was a big video that took literal months to make but I hope you enjoyed it. I have a few credits and acknowledgements that I wanted to post here.
▶ A huge thank you to Dave from ComicBookHerald for joining me on this video. CBH are a terrific website and a great resource for reading orders, editorials and comic news. Be sure to check their site out here: www.comicbookherald.com
▶ If you want more Hickman X-Men content, I highly recommend For Every Kind of Geek's series of videos on the entire Krakoa era (from HoX/PoX all the way to Inferno). Watch it here: th-cam.com/video/-3ybsiDdeTU/w-d-xo.html
▶ If you enjoyed this video, consider supporting Owen Likes Comics on Patreon: www.patreon.com/owenlikescomics
With all that is said about the X-Men., It's really still the same story. The X-Men are still losing. They haven't really evolved to a better place because the rule of kill no him a is dumb. Even for Xavier. It's db. No leader who has been through what the mutants have been through would do that. And the ones that do die. As professor X did. Why do we even still call him professor? What has he taught us that is beneficial for the mutants? That you can live in peace with the murders at your door? That's not how that works. And to have the person who set you on the path of Krakoa be the ultimate betrayer in a long line of successive betrayers (beast, selene etc) why are standards for peace still there.
I think the story of the sinister gene being in all the mutants and seeing what could be done is great.
Introducing all those mutants from Arrako, creating a new home for them on Mars and then murdering mostly all of them was atrocious.
Characters like Bishop, Gambit even Rictor, have become these one dimensional monotone non entitys. Archangel? Where the hell is Archangel? They returned him to semi playboy trope?
The thing I realize is that comic lovers, especially the ones who grew up with the X-Men, don't ever really want to speak on the obvious. For you guys who have channels about comics, it makes sense. You make money this way. I get it. But it doesn't make it any better. But I'm one guy whose outlook doesn't matter and I won't be commenting on these anymore.
I'm tired. Like these story lines.
Hi Owen, rlly love ur vids and think it’s amazing how you’re able to make such high quality video essays about comics(one of the only ones imo). I’m writing a school paper about the Avengers comics, and was wondering what your process was to write these incredible essays(seemingly with ease). Would rlly appreciate the insight and excited for the next vid!
@@aagreenidge Sadly, I agree with you. I think Owen is in danger of drinking the same Koolaid that Dave from Comicbookherald and so many others have drunk. Jonathan Hickman is perhaps the most overrated writer in Marvel comics history. Don't get me wrong, he's not as bad as Brian Michael Bendis has become and he actually has a few good ideas. But in many ways, all he's done is slap a new coat of paint on Chris Claremont's, John Byrne's and a few other creators' genius. With the exception of drugs to cure human illnesses and establishing a mutant civilization on a mutant island, a lot of HoX/PoX is just a regurgitation of Days of Future Past and Grant Morrison's New X-Men. And not in a way that elevates the past material. And in case you hadn't noticed, X-Men crossovers still only really affect X-Men books, not the rest of the Marvel Universe (with the exception of the Eternals, but really, who cares about them?). What did X of Swords really affect? Or the Hellfire Gala or A.X.E.: Judgment Day?
Whata nonsense Vid. Even without Hickman X Men was ALWAYS Marvels second sucessful Brand after Spider Man! Hickman saved my A...
6:00 Funny is that the same Fans that complained about that still supportet Fox Movie Garbage! And that was the Reason why X Men were put to the side ! Why should Marvel make storys and then let Fox destroy them and their idiotic Fans even celebrate that, like with DoaFP and Old Man Logan? You COMPLETELY ignore what happened in the Real World, everything that happen there had its reasons in the real world. So was the try of Marvel, to first establish Inhumans and then Eternals as "replacement" (Even when both, Eternals and Inhumans exist longer than the X Men) . You Logic is flawed because you don`t include everything!
I think its understated just how vital pepe larraz's art is to the revitalization as well. I honestly cant see any other artist bringing hickman's story to life the way he did
I gotta say, reading these 12 issues was the most fun I've ever had following comics. It is an excellent story and a much needed revival that got everyone to talk about the X-Men again.
Wow. I cant believe "no more mutants" was spoken by Wanda almost 20yrs ago IRL.
And the comics are still suffering because of it
Hickman did the impossible. He not only somehow elevated X-Men from a title I had long since stopped caring about, but he's by far the only writer to come anywhere remotely close to rivaling Claremont. Personally, it's my favorite era of the X-Men. And as someone who was reading way back in the 80's, that's kinda wild.
Prob is… he left and now we have this bizarre mess left behind. What could have been….
Immortal Xmen and xmen red have been stellar but I agree otherwise
@@Akkbar21 I don't think it's any messier than it's ever been. Immortal is great. Red is fantastic. There's a lot of cool stuff happening. If you're reading everything that's coming out...maybe it feels a little messy. I'm not 100% current on everything. But I think it's the best it's been in almost 20 years. Most titles are a lot of fun. And fun is why I read these books.
I absolutely love hickman and that was before i knew how much stuff he wrote that i loved like sheild and secret warriors he made me like the FF and his avengers secret wars run was almost perfection. My only regret is him not getting to fully finish his xmen run . MARVEL hand him the keys pay him well and let him give the over all direction of the whole thing PLEASE
I would like see Jonathan NOLAN (Westworld) reboot the X-men film franchise!
I’m just still so heartbroken that we will never get to see how this story would have ended.
Truly sux. I gave it a chance and now it's turned to crap. I stopped reading, now I just check out reviews every now and then.
I hate Marvel. They don't know how to tell basic stories anymore.
Yeah. I have a strong suspicion that it would have ended with Krakoa falling in the end because of the mutants’ hubris and sketchy actions but I think I would like to have seen Hickman’s endgame regardless if it had been that predictable. Of course we are still getting many of Hickman’s ideas but filtered through other writers’ perspectives and it is a mixed bag. Once again we are in a situation where we look back at a major writer’s run and have to wonder what could have been if there was no interference from up high. We’ve had this issue with x-books since the 90’s when editorial/marketing took over. Now I’m just wondering how long the x-office keeps claiming that what they are doing at the moment is still part of those plans Hickman set up before he left. I suspect it will be as long as they think it will be profitable.
@@sawboss5794 Hard disagree. Go read the Sins of Sinister event that's currently happening. It'll change your mind
Wait, why didn't it end?
@@DarkChyld333 agreed. Immortal and Red are the best X books since house and powers. People who think it’s turned to shit obviously haven’t been reading it. The only bad thing I will say is the whole Moira plot was fumbled terribly but I place the blame on Benjamin Percy alone.
Mr. Hickman truly is the master of revitilization.
His X-Men run reignited my own love for the X-Men full force. It was always there but it diluted until his run.
And having X show up in a helmet like "The Maker".... and dont get me started on All White Magneto?.... They nailed the coloring of this comic.
Most of the X-Men stuff is still the best in current comics, even if they don't sell as much as others that people mostly just buy because of sunk cost and wanting to keep up with the set... Like amazing spidey.
X-Men Red, Legion of X, Immortal X-Men, Immoral X-Men (which is part of Sins of Sinister, along with Nightcrawlers and Storm - Brotherhood of Mutants) It's another go at an over arching story again, but over 3 books this time (and Immoral having it's own books as well, so technically over 4 books) I didn't realize they were all connected at first though so I only collected Sins of Sinister and Immoral X-men. I need to get the storm and Nightcrawlers books.
EDIT: I forgot about X-Static/X-Cellent as well. These are great books IMO, and The X-Cellent have just had a second run start recently, too. They're not mainstream X-Men though, and totally different in style and premise.
Problem here is this... most people don't actually get it what Hickman did in fact with the X-men...
Yes, he did indeed revitalized the X-Men comics, but by bring the very destruction of the X-Men, what Hickman, did in fact was kill most of the X-Men, or at least the most relevant ones, and then make drones linked in to a hive mind... the X-men literally had become POD PEOPLE, meanwhile, the rift between humans and mutants was never so wide... with several human organizations working to find a solution to the "mutant problem"... another thing that Hickman did was showing some more humanity on the other side of the equation, by making believeble human villains (not the cartoonish racist idiots that plague most of the X-men stories).
The point where Hickman departed from the X-men, they were completely over, the only path FOWARD for them was follow along with the mutant x human war, and with the X-men, that were the only ones preventing this war, as the spearheads of it.
WHen the folks on Marvel realize what Hickman did, was already too, late, YET, they did tried despite the fact that Hickman didn't let them any other choice.
Cyclops was never a villain despite how much marvel tried to portray him as mutant hitler
Cyclops was right
I would watch comic explained video on Cyclops being marvels best villian
I’ve never really read the X-Men and I sort of struggled to get into the Hickman run, but knowing what he’s done with the FF, it would’ve been cool to see his full story
I’m glad the X-Men are back in the spotlight. It seems like Disney wanted to make the Inhumans the new X-Men for a few years
Funny how in recent years they kinda shifted places, the inhumans being the ones left without a home and the x-men having their own nation.
But yeah disney probably gave up the idea once they got the xmen on their hands again with the fox adquisition
Yeah they were really banking on Inhumans being a huge success. That and the movie rights still being stuck at Fox made things difficult.
It seems it was primarily driven by Ike Perlmutter
Since Hickman's exit, the X-books seem to be going down the same path as the 2010s xmen.
@@DeusImperium Everyone says this and I really just don't get it. The books have barely gone down in quality. Hell, some of them have gotten better. X-Men Red and Immortal X-Men are the best two series' of all of Krakoa, including Hickman era. Legion of X has been excellent. Sins of Sinister is a really good crossover, on the same level as Inferno IMO.
Hoxpox is a masterpiece. Not only did it revitalize the X-Men, it was the first time in literal decades that a comic book had been the equivalent of “event television” where everywhere you went every comic book reader was talking about about the last issue and speculating on what was happening and where it was going. Even non-comic readers were aware that something huge was happening to the X-Men.
I want to like, but I'm not killing the 69.
@@D00M3R_MAVS 😂😂😂
Something that you and Dave only briefly mention is the desire to have The Inhumans supplant the X-Men, and the reason for this not just being Fox/Disney, but Ike Perlmutter in particular. Perlmutter hated that they were printing comics as "free advertising" for competiting studios films, and so had Fantastic Four shut down. X-Men sold too well to shelve entirely, but it was substantially paired back, with the Inhumans being positioned to greater prominence.
But things really go off the rails around 2015/2016. That's when Fiege demands independence from Perlmutter, and Marvel Studios becomes seperate from Marvel Entertainment. It's then when Perlmutter adopts his classic vindictive streak and attempts to more radically marginalize the mutants with stuff like IvX. Unfortunately for Perlmutter but lucky for us, the corporate winds once again shifted, allowing the X-Men to regain greater prominence (the catastrophic Inhumans tv show also helped).
Being a Fantastic Four fan has really sucked with the rise of the MCU and comic movies in general. My heart went out to X-Men fans here
They have always been separate, it is only now they are not
Indeed. Good that it ultimately failed. For some reason these editors seem stuck with some silly idea if they make a certain character important, they will be beloved by fans. Then they seem confused it fails and they call the fanbase toxic. As if they are obliged to be forced characters down their throats.
Kinda not realising that The X-Men became beloved because they were outcasts in the Marvel Universe and told excellent stories with appealing characters. The Inhumans were always nice, but essentially quirky C list characters.
You can say it was a bad thing because it basically erased X-Men from Marvel for a few years, BUT that was one of the main reasons Marvel got the film rights for the X-Men back lol. Had Perlmutter not been so greedy, X-Men would've remained the same and Disney would've never managed to buy Fox. If Disney had those balls again, they would do the same with Spider-Man and Hulk, but I doubt they'll try that anytime soon until they get back to the top of their field without depending on those characters.
@@radrno7 You're MASSIVELY overestimating the importance of comicbook sales if you think the X-Men's status quo in Marvel Comics played even a small role in Disney's $71.3 billion acquisition of 21st Century Fox. By far the largest reason Disney bought Fox was because they wanted a bunch of movie and TV content for Disney+ they were gonna launch soon, and if the X-Men, Fantastic Four and Deadpool did play a part in that it was cause those movies would fit in nicely with the other superhero movies on Disney+ while also opening those characters up for use in the MCU.
Think about it: did Hickman's celebrated, multi-year run do any "free advertising" for the shitty Fant4stic movie? Did Duggan's popular run on Deadpool have any part to play in the success of the Deadpool movies, or Wolverine's status quo in the comics have any effect at all on the critical and box office success of Logan? General audiences don't give a flying crap about comics, and even comicbook fans will judge whether they'll see a superhero movie based largely on trailers, reviews, word-of-mouth, etc.
Even if the X-Men had multiple incredible, genre-defining runs in the decade before the acquisition, not only would the sale still have happened, the cost wouldn't even have been a dollar more. The only difference would've been that Disney would've made a bit more money from comic sales during that period. Perlmutter's brilliant direction was a classic example of cutting off your nose to spite your face, and wouldn't accomplish anything if tried again with Spider-Man or Hulk aside from tanking Disney's own comic sales, and Sony/Universal being mildly amused.
Hickman is one of the great writers to emerge in the late 00's with his original indie work. He could be a great sci fi novelist if he wanted to. The way he can map out a storyline and explore concepts while developing new angles on age old characters is superb. His Fantastic Four run is the only time i actually liked FF.
The huge glaring problem with the storyline was the elimination of the X-men’s protagonists. When all of the mutants are on the same team, who do they fight? Silly enemies like ecoterrorist grandmas.
The old ladies were such a dumb idea. But we still had human enemies, machines, mutants who didn't join Krakoa, villains from within (Shaw, Sinister), Orchis (they were cool while Hickman was around), Genesis and the Arraki. A lot of the mutants' rise to power made it clear that they were also attracting a lot of enemies.
@@sourdough3533 none of the enemies were compelling. What made magneto the best nemesis for the X-men was the fact that from a certain perspective, he was right or at least you could empathize with him. Uniting the mutants was a betrayal of Xavier’s mission, since he was against segregation. The X-men segregating themselves was 100% the opposite of what they stood for.
@@mattskov2917 It took years of stories for Magneto to be compelling. But they've done work fleshing out Orchis, giving them legit reasons to be wary of mutants, and created a tragedy around the creation of Nimrod. The machines are also arguably compelling once we learn about Future Karima.
As for the segregation, it NEEDED to happen. Mutants needed a space for themselves, because they'd literally die off without Krakoa. There's no way around it, humans treated them like dirt with or without Krakoa. And even then, not only did Xavier make "Don't kill humans" one of the cardinal rules of their nation, he even had a speech in one of Hickman's issues about how he still believes in peaceful co-existence. Krakoa wasn't about locking people out (though elements of that had to happen), it was about shoring up and defending your own before you could try and make peace with your enemies. Even before the first Gala, select humans (relatives and special guests) were allowed to visit and even live on the island.
And they did make peace, sort of. Once Krakoa was more or less settled, they started opening up to people. Many exclusionary elements were acknowledged and rectified. We've seen the X-Men do a ton of charity work in various books. We've seen them work more and more with other books.
Read the story again humanity in general as well machines we create are mutants greater enemy
I mean. Just because a group of people are united doesn't mean there would be no infighting. Historically speaking there's always been more fighting and violence right after a revolution as there's often discourse on HOW a society is supposed to work and WHO'S going to lead. After the excecution during the French revolution there was a lot of murder and coupe's because of difference's in opinions and people being incredibly power hungry. To build or be inside a new community can be very messy and complicated as there'll always be different opinions on how something should be defined.
I can see a potential story arc of them trying to figure out how to create a flourishing community. Discussing what a mutant community is or what it can be. How do they cope of simply existing after fighting for so long? That could be interesting to dig into.
Knowing Hickman and how he fused the avengers into a godlike operatic epic which ended as a tragedy, the x men run with him would have ended in a tragedy which would have sorts resulted in providing a way for them to return to the previous status quo with the ramifications of the ending still being felt.
But man, the krakoa era is what you would call a fresh creative shakeup and made sure such shakeup affected their entire universe.
This series was so good that I was reading all 10 dawn of X books for a while. Sadly, real life got in the way and I haven't had a chance to read a comic run in about 3 years. But I fully intend to dive back into the Krokoa/Arrako era as soon as I can! I heard through the grapevine the X-Men freaking terraformed Mars and I'm so excited to find out how and why and where it all leads!
you're in for a wild ride
I've always loved the X-Men. They are the only American comics I actually follow these days
I was super excited for this video because I’ve been looking for someone to explain Hickman’s X-men and I’m glad it was you. Great video as usual Owen!! 💙
Glad you enjoyed it!
Watching this video is so bittersweet. The way this all crashed and burned makes it hard to appreciate the good parts of Hickman’s work. I was genuinely excited to read this whole run as it came out. 😢
Crashed and burned! Nah nah nah. Jordan White said Hickman left because the X-Office was doing so good! He left because he was happy that they veered violently away from his original plans! Don't you understand?! Hickman was onboard! We're just too toxic to see it.
That was all severe sarcasm.
@@DonMegaPLP he left to get paid by substack. No hate on him. Get that bag. I just wish we’d got the obvious plan he laid out. If we disagree, that’s fine with me. Take care.
@@DonMegaPLP omg hahaha. I didn’t finish reading your comment and just reacted. You got me son. I will leave my comment up as a testimony to my shame. 😆
It really didn't crash and burn though, people gotta stop saying that and read X-Men Red and Immortal X-Men, easily two of the best comic series' ever, and on par with pretty much everything in Hickman's run
Impressed with X-men '97 as a non-fan, I followed the TH-cam X-men rabbit hole to find your video. Now I'm converted to be an X-men fan.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Completely agree with this video. Like you, I was a die-hard X-men fan since the early '90s. I stopped collecting comics by about 1998 but still would take a peek occasionally to see what was going on. There were some good stories but nothing that made me feel like I was missing out. When I heard about the major Hickman changes and hoped back with House/Powers of X and was absolutely blown away. The world-building, the respect paid to old characters and history, and new approaches to old characters and the reintroduction of others, it was absolutely amazing. I've been back on the X-titles ever since. Was sad to see Hickman leave but he left the X-stories on a great path. Currently enjoying the Sins of Sinister story arc. Great video!
Reading the series, I can already envision how this version of Xmen and mutants would manifest in MCU. with more mature and complex characters, and clearer focus and power levels, it would be a treat to see all this play out on big screens. I can also see all the current known Xmen actors ( James Mcavoy, Michael fassbender, etc) would be thrilled to reprise their roles in new light and fresh direction.
Read Chris Claremont's classic run which put X-Men on the map and turned it into a phenomenon, you'll find all the maturity and complexity you could ever want in a mainstream superhero title. In fact it pushed the limits of the genre in ways that have rarely been matched before or since. I haven't read the Hickman run to know how it stacks up, but if it's as mature and complex as you say then it would be a return to those qualities that the franchise lost after Claremont and Simonson, rather than something it hadn't ever had before.
I grew up an X-Men fanatic. I started reading the X-Men around uncanny X-Men issue 120 the Claremont era to me was the best era in comics ever.
When the X-Men expanded from one comic to new mutants, Excalibur and X Factor I bought all of them. The original inferno saga is probably my favorite storyline in comics ever.
Despite my love of the X-Men I think the run of comics after house of M is terrible, but I hate the Hickman era even more. I despise the nihilism of the series and the subliminal messaging throughout the story. The X-Men has always been a metaphor for racism and bigotry and Hickman’s only solutions for how different people can get along with different people is complete segregation or preemptive genocide.
He portrayed several looks at the future, and every single one of them included a genocide first as the only solution to peoples differences
It is a fictional depiction of the ideology that suggests the only solution in the West Bank would be Israel, killing every Palestinian, or the solution to racism in the United States is one group of people, figuring out a way to kill all of the other people first. It is a very dark view of the world, and has very little to do with how Stan Lee envisioned X-Men stories.
You might like the stories, but they aren’t stories with the themes of the golden age of the X-Men
As an X-fan I agree 100%
Hickman isn't endorsing these views. By making these the views of Moira and Orchis, he's implicitly stating they are bad. Through Cyclops sharing the secret of resurrection with the wider human population, the audience can see that there is a better, inclusive way. But, Xavier and Magneto exist in the Krakoan age to show how power and authority can transform them into the 'us versus them' mentality that Moira and Orchis hold. I don't think an audience needs to be outright told discrimination is bad, most every comic reader would agree with that, and through being more implicit with his themes, Hickman can craft a narrative about the dangers of authoritarianism seeping in and corrupting our seemingly utopian (Krakoa) societies. It's inherently political as X-Men always has been, but it's taking a look not just at the blatant xenophobia of the 80s but the more underground, not immediately threatening nature of right-wing politics and xenophobia in the 21st century. All in all, I understand why you may dislike this direction, but I'm glad they've taken it and hopefully it can speak more to a 21st C. audience.
I'm clapping hard right now
Ironically, all the people who celebrate the idea of mutants - a perpetually persecuted minority feared by the world at large - going off and just forming their own nation ALSO seem to be the people who are currently marching in the streets wanting the destruction of Israel. Weird how that works out.
So we're really going to pretend like they didn't go back to the status of lacking a substance?
The good X-Men stories ended, in a way, with The Age of Apocalypse. They deeply reinvented the. X-Men Universe, even for a brief alternate reality, but they couldn't reshape the X-Men more than that after this event. Since then, the series have been more or less uninteresting.
agreed 100%
I got to be honest, I wasn't a big X-Men reader or fan, but Hickman's House/Powers ignite an interest for the universe to now reading almost everything the Krakoan era has to offer from Dawn to the current destiny, there's no deny that PoX & HoX made me an X-Men fan 😀
P.D. Great analysis from the status of modern X-Men Comics to the creation and ideas behind what Hickman brought to the table 👏🏻
Same here, never read an x book besides Morrisons new xmen omnibus. The history is just to vast and complicated.
But I jumped headfirst for hox/pox and it was a wild ride, that book made me an x men fan
I wish his story with Storm having T'Challa's child would've been reality, instead marvel said no to that
I hadn't read a single X-Men comic before I read Hickman's run. I had only watched the X-Men animated series the year before. But Hickman sold me on the franchise as a whole, and made me understand why people love these characters
I haven't read much of Hickman's X-Men mostly due to feeling like I had to read all of the X books that took place after House of X/Powers of X. Definitely want to check it out though.
I'll be honest with you. I'm not really a fan of the Krakoan era because there's so many issues for me to be considered good.
- It breaks the main purpose of the X-Men: You guys know the drill about Marvel's Merry Mutants. An analogy to minorities that show we all can coexist in peace no matter how hard society makes us to. Establishing a brand new country where the inhabitants are only mutants and act quite hostile to other nations who have a human population majority is something Pre-Claremont Magneto would do. And I'm aware about Genosha, Avalon, and many other "mutant paradises", but they weren't the main focus for the team or Charles's vision of the perfect world.
- Most of the Council have a lot to answer for: Fine, I get it. The X-Men have accepted many of the members of their rogues gallery or people with a pretty disturbing past, such as Rogue (unintended pun, I swear), Rachel Summers, Gambit, Magneto himself, Sabretooth, the White Queen or Mystique. But they've shown how much they've grown. And, if they didn't (such as Sabretooth), they'll just be the dick they usually are and be either kicked out from the team or leaving on their own. But Xavier willingly accepting guys such as Apocalypse, the Black King or Mister Sinister in their ranks (as rulers of his new mutant nation, mind you) isn't exactly something he'd do.
- Death is cheap: The classic ol' trope. Comic book characters just can't die, but at least some stories try to make you invested in it showing the consequences of a character dying. Hell, even the infamous Civil War II managed to make it. But nowadays, mutants are now god-like creatures who just can't die. If they do, they'll be resurrected as nothing happened in the exact same issue. Much like my first statement, mutants aren't "humans with powers" anymore. They're now gods who live in a way different society whose rules have nothing to do with the human being, making a reconciliation between the two races almost impossible. Think about it. Why can't I resurrect a loved one while the Krakoans can? We all know it's not fair and explaning this might be one of the most difficult tasks for a writer.
- Moira MacGuffin: You know what I love about side characters on superhero comics? They're just like you or me, ordinary people who have a life or a job that got invested into the crazy mess that a superhero title is. Some might argue these characters are a little bit more flat than the others. And, while they're completely right, I don't see what's wrong with it. Side characters hardly have the character treatment a protagonist (or a villain, especially in the X-books) and that's completely fine, it's not like every character has to move the plot. Which is why Moira, a character that hasn't done really that much in the X-books suddenly becoming not only a mutant but arguably the most important mutant in the Marvel Universe just makes me laugh. Not only makes the character to get the spotlight for no reason but, in her case, she's now the main reason why the X-Men are a thing. Not Charles, who built the team to show that mutants and humans can live as a family, but Moira, who's lived in many lives that showed us how much the X-Men are needed for the mutants as some sort of "mutant protection squad".
But, hey, at least this meant something. Just like you and the Herald said, the X-Men had little to no reason to be on the Marvel Universe anymore as they were trying their hardest to make them either as uninteresting as they can or just straight out killing their members by clashing with the Inhumans or any other menace. Nowadays they've found a spot where they can live happily ever after with brand new adventures, but I don't think this is the right direction for them. Not that it needs to change, of course, you just can't undo something you've spent a lot of time working on for the sake of nostalgia, right?
But that's just my two cents.
HoXPoX was so good. Definitely in my top five favorite X-men stories
Mine too!
Great video! I would rather Hickman focused on two issues for several years, as he did with Avengers and F4, instead of being the mind behind the whole process and writing just one continuous series, but the final result was great anyway. I was no longer excited to read X-Men comics until HOX/POX, and that gave new life to my interest, and it's still good.
Really fantastic video man. As someone who's barely a year new to comics, it's wild learning about the fiascos x-men's been in the last decade
Thanks! I'm really glad you found it helpful.
Odd, I've always felt that Hickman killed the X-Men.
That would be Bob Harass that killed the mutant line, everything since then has been various attempts at reanimating the corpse and keeping it shambling on.
Hickman and the others got me back into X-Men after years of so much of them being split all over the Marvel Universe, the mixed Bendis books, being messed up by the stupid Terrigen Clouds or how mid their relaunch was with with the first Gold and Red series. The Krakoa era has been a wild, interesting and actually good to read story arc so far.
I’m glad we’re in agreement that Astonishing, Jean Grey, and Blue were the best books in the post-“Nuhumans” era of Marvel’s X-Men comics. But for all its flaws, at least Gold finally gave us a wedding between Rogue and Gambit, after nearly thirty years of romantic tension.
Honestly, as an old X-Men fan of the 90's, EVERYTHING I've heard and watched and read about this Krakoa Era sounds absolutely appalling. It turned the X-Men into villains and completely justified humanity's hatred of mutants, at the behest of our own "for the 2020's" bored, cynical decadence and performative social justice dilettantism... People who've never suffered a day in their life turning to racism and violence for some kind of existential purpose. It's like Hickman channeled everything appalling about current society and current politics and crystalized it into the X-Men.
Great video! HoX/PoX really helped me get back into comics after a while. Such a great run that's still strong!
Great to hear!
From what I got out of this video and story, this is great stuff. Good job Marvel and Owen. Thank you. 👍
The funny thing is I actually stopped following the X-books following the conclusion of House of X and Powers of X. (Aside from the occasional Deadpool, here and there). Not out of a lack of quality, far from it, just that I could only follow so many books at any given time. Still, I’m very excited to see you give your thoughts on the beginnings of the Krokoa era of X-Men.
I would say it's not necessary to read all of the books, but there's usually been at least 2-3 series worth reading at any given time.
I would suggest reading Hellions (extra fun book), X-Men by Hickman, maybe Sword/X-Men Red by Ewing, Immortal X-Men by Gillen. For the love of God, skip X of Swords event.
Second what the guy above me said about reading immortal x-men. Also highly recommend his eternals which is also amazing and crosses over with the x-men in judgement day
@@looniemoonie5955 Thanks for saying this. I was wondering if I needed to read it or not, and with the ABSURD resale prices of X of Swords I was worried that I'd be missing something. Thankfully I just need to read Powers of X/House of X, Hickman's X-Men, Hellfire Gala, and Hickman's Inferno.
You can get the omnibus collections. They compile a large set of interconnected comics into a single graphic novel. I think there might also be a comic reading app where you just pay a flat subscription rate & have free reign of what comics you read digitally, but I'm not sure. A lot of people just read them for free online & hopefully at least buy the issues they really enjoyed.
It’s sad what they did with the x men and trying to replace them with the inhumans. They killed off mutants and made tons of more inhumans. I love the inhumans but they’re best when it’s the smaller amount of key characters in the royal family and the main inhumans. Just keep the main smaller cast of the inhumans and with the mutants have a growing number of them and a range of team sizes .
Seeing apocalypse look like suge knight, never gets old
While I certainly appreciate some of the concepts Hickman brought to the franchise with House Of X and Powers Of X, the X-Men as a whole are so unrecognisable to me now that I no longer care to invest my time in the stories that have ridden Hickman’s coattails. I would say he reinvigorated the X-Men for readers who hung on through a decade of questionable turns for the brand, But to say he saved the franchise is incredibly far from the truth. Case in point it has been over three years after the fact and all this video could lend comment to was his initial 12 issue story from 2019. The X-Men have been little more than white noise and two mutant Met Galas since.
I feel that the brand is travelling down the same road that it followed when Grant Morrison was at the helm. Eventually an editorial change will devise to go ‘back to basics’ and the line will be relaunched in the hopes it will attract the fans the ‘Krakoan Era’ has turned away. I’ll bide my time until that day comes....
0:52 That seems to be recurring thing with MARVEL Teams: "Transforming overlooked heroes into the company's biggest and most beloved characters".
First the X-Men, then the Avengers. Then the Guardians of the Galaxy and And failling with the Inhumans
House of X is probably the most satisfying comics I have ever read. After years of directionless x-men story, Hickman arrive and wrote every good idea I could only dream off (I always wanted them to live on krakoa it just made so much sense). And on the other hand Power of X is one of the daring comics I have ever read, reframing the entire X-men history while still keeping the legacy of old story intact. Unfortunatly I felt like Inferno was an absolute disaster wich basicly ruined half of the good ideas of power and house of x and it complitly killed my intrest for x-men long term storytelling.
Rewatching this in prep for the Inferno video.
😂😂😂 "Saved the X-Men" 😂😂😂
It was the first story to be told post the Disney/Fox war. They were Marvel's best selling team for decades and would have continued to be if it weren't for the movie rights animosity.
Great Video! Krakoa era X Men is not very good for me. They basically stripped the humanity out of the characters and they have reslly overblown it with the ressurection protocols thing. Great video nonetheless, Owen. Big fan!
It felt like that was initially the point, that this would overall be a net negative for Charles & co and that it was leading to something bigger. But it seems like every other writer working with Hickman likes Krakoa as the status quo instead of the transitory phase. Hence Hickman leaving
@@turnbased608 A.X.E DID kinda touch on the X men going overboard with the ressurections and stuff tho
@@turnbased608 That has been happening with other writers though. Go read Immortal X-Men #10 or X-Men Red #7 and it's obvious that Hickman wasnt the only writer who understood that Krakoa was bad. Krakoa is the refutation of Xavier's dream. It's giving up on integration and embracing separatism. Writers are engaging with this. They understand that Krakoa must come to an end. "On that day, he will martyr us all."
However, on the other hand, Krakoa sticking around for a while is a good thing. Status quo in comics can be bad, yes. But we've had decades of the same exact X-Men status quo. Every shake-up is superficial, with just the details changing while the premise stays the same. Krakoa is a true fresh start. I'm not against it falling, as it's clearly gearing up for its final phase this summer with Fall of X being the final era after Dawn, Reign, and Destiny of X. But it's not bad for it to stick around, let the X-Men do something new, and nobody can deny, Krakoa is one of the coolest worldbuilding choices ever, and it's hella fun.
As much as the storytelling and themes would be better if Krakoa falls, I could be content with a decade of Krakoa. It's a natural conclusion to the X-men who have always suffered from power creep. Having a literal goddess be one of the first characters introduced (giant size xmen, not uncanny #1 but still a very early issue) tends to do that. There have been jokes for decades about the sheer number of resurrections we've had of any character who ever dies. Just let them be gods. Let them be a nation of gods, who are humbled every day. It's the most compelling X-Men has ever been.
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 YES!!! 100%
X-Men is Marvel's best team. The lineups and characters are unmatched.
Jason Aaron and Micheal Bendis were terrible on Xmen. Hickman has written some of the best comic book runs ever. He left Xmen too early
Awesome video guys!! I always turn to this channel for my comics history. Y’all are absolutely killing it. Keep up the good work 👍
P.S. need more Spider-Man content ;)
Thank you so much!
It’s a shame how we went from groundbreaking to the trash they doing now
X-Men really feels like a separate universe from the Avengers. Most of the time, the mutants works a lot better without them, just dealing with anti-mutant sentiment. Evil mutants and murder bots are enough for such a setting.
Moria is a great character and feels like the actual main character in the Hickman Era. Hickman is definitely the new Jack Kirby and I feel he revived the X-Men for the better.
I've thought for a long time that X-Men works better when the rest of the marvel universe stays far away.
Even moreso during the Hickman era.
@@Tormalima It feels really odd that super freaks of science accidents can be heroes but people born with powers can be treated as worldwide threats is bs
Marvel editorial staff seemed to have thought that too for the longest time. As the rise in event books, there was a rule that the X-Men weren't allowed to be involved too heavily in them.
I really dislike most of the Krokoa era of X-Men
That being said, the beginning with Hickman was pretty great
Such a good beginning with House of X and Powers of X. But, everything started to fall apart slowly afterwards.
I've been eagerly waiting to hear Owen's take on Hickman's X-Men! Excellent video!
Hope you enjoyed it!
I've been looking forward to this...
As for the House of X and Powers of X: When I first heard this series being made, I had only just gotten back hardcore into comics thanks to you and Linkara, and one of my significant introductions to the comics was Jonathan Hickman's Avengers/New Avengers era, I read INFINITY, which was excellent, and then I decided to buy the original printing Omnibus runs of Hickman at a convention because waiting for the reprints in 2023 was asking too much. I hadn't known what was going on with X-Men or any of the DC/Marvel Contunities then, but when I read Hickman was coming back, and it was X-Men, my only response: TAKE MY MONEY!
Also I recall two things regarding Hickman's return, one, it was said after X-Men, the last remaining big dream projects were at DC, and there were rumors heading into either year 2 or 3 of DC Rebirth, DC was contacting Hickman for a Justice League run. After Ultimate Invasion, his 'Sandman for The Marvel Universe,' and one last return to X-Men for Fall of X, hoping Hickman finally heads to DC and creates his next significant seminal era...maybe when The Justice League return after Knight Terrors?
Also, The X-Men Krakoa era will be personal for me for one reason: I was at The Hellfire Gala Year 2 event watching Spider-Man fighting one of The Five to protect his Ex whose secretly a cybernetic Moria in control of her body with Emma Frost providing commentary...as Linkara would say, 'Because Comic Books.'
The time since House/Powers is the most excited I've been for ALL X-titles since the Morrison run.
X-fans eatin' good.
All I can say is that if you started with the X-Men of the 90s and the animated stuff, you don't know real X-Men. I suggest you read Chris Claremont's epic and unparalleled 16 year run and see what made them a franchise and a phenomenon. I don't know this newer stuff to judge it, but I do know that the Claremont era is why anyone even knows who the X-Men are and why it's not a forgotten footnote in cancelled comic history.
He honestly did save the X Men.
An excellent soft reboot of the mutant timeline, a drastic and long lasting shifting of the status quo for Mutants in the Sociopolitical landscape of marvel, and a marvelous recycling of old characters, dropped plotlines, and forgotten or underutilized concepts.
I was pretty much out of comics, and I don't know the last time I bought an entire line, but I've been now keeping up with every X-book since HoxPox
I just love how Professor X and Magneto are finally working together for a common just goal
Hickman’s run was the worst ever. It was BORING, POMPOUS, and PRETENTIOUS. I have never been so bored
That Orchis mission had me so emotional, Wolverine and Nightcrawler specifically. The Moira twist pisses me off. I wish Apocalypse was still involved as well. Sins of Sinister feels like it’s trying to continue Hickman’s ideas.
I suspect Sins of Sinister, in broad strokes, is part of Hickman's core plan. HoXPoX data pages hint at the Sins of Sinister events happening in a previous timeline - to a degree. When Hickman left, it's not so much that his plans were completely canceled, as put on hold. Hickman had the end state for this X-Men phase mapped out - he said as much. His goal was to leave the writers of the next era a better setting to work with rather than blow it all up.
We've mainly been stuck in a holding pattern as editorial stretched this phase out in the middle. SoS seems to be the first stages of Hickman's planned ending kicking in.
I loved Hickman's FF and was thrilled by the Idea of him taking over X-Men, but HoX/PoX felt like a convoluted mess. Especially HoX felt more like an overblown Days of Future Past and (for me) it didn't get better from there.
I mean I could totally see what he was gunning for (there was so much room for political intrigue, scifi, espionage, and super heroic adventures - and given the time-frame of the HoX, on truly epic proportions), but I just couldn't really care for the characters any longer. With the resurrection protocols, death felt cheap (not that it had much weight left in the Marvel Universe). The broken Xavier felt superfluous, next to the "trying-to-behave" - villains, and the X-Men felt more of a foreign body in the Marvel Universe than ever.
But watching this video made me think about why it didn't work, and my guess is: The scale was to grand for my tastes. It was a BIG story, that either needed to be told in broad strokes, (leaving little room for small personal moments or single characters little time to shine), or needed to abandon the hope for a satisfying ending (and with Hickman's departure, we will probably never get "his" ending).
When HoX/PoX came out, it gave me the feeling of looking forward to the next issue just like the same giddy feeling I had during the Jim Lee run or the X-cutioner's song storyline.
So much to say! Shout out for getting Herald on here!
If someone said House and Powers was the greatest Xmen story ever told, I couldn't argue with you them. It was the first time time in a decade the franchise didn't exist to suck off Wolverine. It's not so rare when a franchise can find a new direction and have it become good. It's a shame he wasn't able to see it through. Re-living it through this video was amazing. I see Xavier like Eren Yeager in Attack on Titan. I also think the Moira "change" at the end of Inferno was editorial. It makes no fucking sense. I don't think it was Hickman. I pretend like it was didn't happen.
It's such a shame that the X-Men line went down the drain less than a year after the end of the HOXPOX mini series.
As a primarily DC fan, I've always enjoyed X-Men waaaaay more than the rest of the Marvel universe, and to be honest, would be happier if they were in separate universes. Unpopular opinion perhaps, but what with all the mutants, and the superheroes, being a normal person in the Marvel universe must be quite a rarity.
Supeeheroes are Just humans.
200 thousand mutants on krakoa with very few worldwide due to the decimation, vs 8 billion on the rest of the planet. Even back when Genosha still had 16.5 million mutants, that's still a fraction of the human population. Being a normal person is NOT a rarity
This is the storyline that brought me back into Marvel. I was burnt out on manga & webtoons & depressed after losing two cats. X-Men had some gems in the 90s but the stories & the increasingly ugly edgy faux-anime art eventually turned me off. I absolutely love what they've done to Mr. Sinister, I went from not giving a shit about Betsy Braddock to reading every series she's in, I loved X of Swords, I really miss X-Factor, X-Men Red & Immortal X-Men were amazing with incredible art, the Sabretooth series had great storytelling, I got to know & love Logan's kids, I miss Kid Cable & Kid Omega, & Krakoa was just really appealing.
We need X factor volume 2, it was easily the best thing in krakoa since HoX
I see Jonathan Hickman’s name in a TH-cam video, I click. It’s not complicated.
18:58 I just thought about this… if Cyclops had his body restored would he no longer have those issues with his powers since he has a new body that hasn't had the head trauma he suffered as a kid.… that would be cool to see a cyclops in full control of his powers or a nice side story of him training to control his powers
And Vita Ayala came right behind him and F'd it up again
This really got me to like the Xmen as they squared up and declared "We will crush you and leave you to rot in peace"
But i hate Mystique and the Destiny of X stuff that doesnt feel natural but the Writer crew dragging it out.
I like the Total War and both sides trying to get a edge or counter the other, it was fun and made the whole line feel alive.
really well put video. agree 100% that Hickman finally made X-men interesting again.
I'm so glad you did this video, this run brought me back to the X-Men and although Hickman is gone, it's been a wild ride since it started. I'm quite afraid at what Marvel is going to do now that they announced "Fall of X"
I'm assuming they'll do what Hickman always intended to do and end krakoa and use it to transition into a new era of X-Men. This isn't something to dread, it's what was always meant to happen. Krakoa is the exact rejection of the ideals the X-Men always stood for, of integration and peace. it's the embracing of Magneto's separatism and Apocalypse's ideals of superiority. Now, those two have become noble men, and Magneto died the most honorable death imaginable, but we still need the X-Men story there to stand as a shining beacon of hope, for the dream that someday even the most oppressed groups can become accepted and loved
If that's of any reassurance, fall of x is not meant to be the end of Krakoa. At first it was going to be called "Autumn of X" but the writers thought it wasn't impactful enough of a title. We're going to see the continuation of this story still.
This is my favorite X-men run since the Jim Lee X-men run
was an avid fan from the byrne years up to about maduriera's run. not a fan of the new stories, or the idea of mutants separating themselves from humanity. that said, pepe larraz' art has been excellent!
"Thanks for taking the series and making it into something worth talking about. Now we're going to go back to what wasn't working before." - Marvel every time one of their titles gets a successful revamp.
I said it before and I'll say it again.
This not only was the Shot of the X Gene the Xmen comics have needed for over a decade but it also finally made me understand what a disservice the Fox Universe interpretations of these characters have been.
Everything from the Character Dynamics and Relationships to the Costumes to the Prejudice and enemies they've faced has been so stripped down and barren its a shame.
This comic made me a Cyclops fan because he is the closest thing to being Mutantkinds Version of Captain America in my eyes,a hero so respected and revered by both his Allies and Enemies and is the living embodiment of all of Charles Ideals in one person.
One of my favorite moments is seeing Charles Xavier and Magneto come together as allies and the mission Cyclops leads with his Xmen to destroy the Master Mold Machine orbiting the Sun.
He did but.. I have a feeling this will
End up being a dram like scenario and tie it back to the original Krakoa then end it with a battle world then reboot
Hickman is my all time favorite writer: he did an excellent job with the 3 main marvel teams (Fantastic Four, Avengers, X-Men) and now he's writing 2 new books that seem really cool (ultimate invasion and gods)
This was the first comic I've ever read. Now I absolutely love xmen comics. Completely agree with everything said, kudos
Hickman to me brought back what I love about the X-Men that was lost while there were a million lets kill all the mutants events. A few runs I enjoyed during that time, namely Laura’s Wolverine run and the 2018 generation X run, most of them didn’t stand out that much to me. Hickman give me that wonder when I first read Giant Size X-Men as my first comic book, he gave me the feeling that I was reading a story about a group of people who want to change the world. That was always the X-Men to me, they wanted to change the world for the better, and he gave it back to them.
I know I’m late to this/ don’t know if anyone else commented this but you got a cameo from SAL!!! I’m a fan of both you, Owen but Comic Pop so much love to you guys!
Agreed. I just wish we got longer to explore Krakoan society and see it from even more of the characters' perspectives.
oh no I've gone cross-eyed
HoX/PoX just started its release in Germany after the first lockdown in May 2020, and while the few comic books I owned, were mostly X-Men, I originally didn't have interest into going back to them. But my vendor was good at his job and convinced and so I bought every book from the X line that was available (either from Germany or imported). It is the most brilliant series in current times. And while Destiny of X is slowly moving forward here in Germany (along with the AXE event), I already can't wait for Fall of X.
P.S.: Are you going to make a video about Inferno, too?
I thought the Decimation was a mistake. If mutants are now suddenly mostly gone, most anti-mutant people would be declaring victory and forgetting about them. Then Cyclops who was slowly ruined from the start of X-Factor, is now a villain after he was the top X-man. Too much. I was out.
Tom Taylor's X-Men Red was incredible
except Marvel shut him out/down. I find Jonathan Hickmans story plot-driven like all the male writers have been except Chris Claremont and Tom.
Lore of HOUSE OF X - How Jonathan Hickman Saved the X-Men momentum 100
Happy to have Hickman touch anything. Hes been killing since forever.
Except he didn't. He started a really interesting story and then left without finishing it. So now we have a great story they refuse to end because they aren't good enough to do it
I'd like to read these comics... but what I've heard happens later on is a major turn-off.
Doesn't help that I'm sick and tired of superheroes not acting heroic.
I just want my escapism, damnit! 😠
Honestly, this run is one of my favorites of all time. The whole terraforming of Mars and the war with the eternals i really like the concept of.
Hickman: Inhumans while you slept, the world has changed.
Good video. I enjoyed it. I disagree with your conclusion that Inferno was a satisfactory conclusion. Hickman’s departure clearly robbed us of his planned story’s conclusion. Thanks for enjoyable video. 👍
Hickman revived my love for the X-Men and HoX and PoX are a testament to why IF YOU WANT YOUR CHARACTERS REFRESHED OR A COMPELLING AND MULTI LAYERED STORY YOU GET HICKMAN
No, they feel like a creepy cult.
Oh sure that's what we said about the Ultimate universe as well, and then he dropped it hard when he was offered to write Avengers and main control over 616.
And then it became so convoluted they squandered it
Discovered your channel w/your video on Morrison's X-Men (which I loved!) and was So excited to hear your take on Hickman's run.
Just like with Morrison, you have done Exceptional work!
I Loved this video; thank you very much.
Thank you so much, I really do appreciate that!