ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ค. 2022
- I've had these thoughts on camera control for a while now. I like clawing in Ape Escape, I like the fixed angles in SM64, I like the handful of curated control schemes in Halo. There's room for all of these to co-exist within 3D platformers.
Let me know your thoughts in the comments.
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Games featured:
Demon Turf
New Super Lucky's Tale
Ape Escape 2
Super Mario 64
SM64 - Star Revenge 0
Spyro 2: Ripto's Rage
Halo: Master Chief Collection
Kao the Kangaroo 2022
Any time I refer to buttons on a controller I've made the choice to use Playstation terminology - anything else gets confusing and I'm a Playstation guy at heart. - เกม
Absolute banger. Really well put together. Proud of you.
I'm currently working in my 3D platformer camera, and i would love to see what you think about the control scheme: L stick moves with tank controls, L3 crouch/slide, R stick moves the camera, that follows the character forward and Up orientation (following even when upside-down), reseting to the back after some time. R Shoulder Jumps/glide . R3 starts a acrobatic mode (both on air and ground) where you basically make combos to gain momentum with tricking maneuvers and stops when you miss the timing or bumps into something. Every single acrobatic movement have more than one function too, like bypassing wind or breaking ice. R3 also parries/counterattack, and it's one of the only ways to do damage to enemies. L Shoulder trades high stamina for higher mobility and reacts based on the context (if on air you can fly, for example). LT stabilizes, wich is used for wall running, bump recovery and basically maintaining momentum. RT Climbs and on air insta-reverse the camera with double tap left/right. And to finish: Dash with double-tap vertical L Stick. I made this thinking about the maximum usability in the resting hand position, because i hate to claw 🤣.
Oh, and btw, the game is called (maybe temporarily) Caelum Finis and i'll start devlogs when i start to make the level design (wich is soon, i expect). Everything i told is already implemented, i'll only expand with some abilities (used with the D Pad) and MAYBE a Magnetic Hook, where you shoot up to (maybe) 5 anchors that 1- let's you stay on almost any surface while consuming energy and 2 - pulls you to the closest anchor in front or back (so it's used for quick repositioning, wich is s great part in boss fights).... The game is more based on what YOU can do, it's not on rails with jumpers, boosters and dashers everywhere like Sonic, the level design more natural, but you have really absurd movement skills, balancing momentum, energy and timing. Sorry for the long-ass comment, it's truly a passion project 🤣 and it's my first game too. And i'm doing it solo. And i think you would be interested 😁
Nice quality on this one. You did a really good job, Ty.
Today I learned that Ty has an excellent narrator voice
Haha, thank you. It definitely took some practise to get the style and rhythm I was after!
Interesting video! One game with controls that always bugged me was RaC1 in which jump is on X and shoot is on circle. The game also recenters your camera if you're not holding the stick. So, you can look *or* shoot *or* jump and you need to claw to keep the camera in position while platforming lmao. Not to mention theres no strafing... I think it was UYA that introduced a control scheme option that moved all actions to the triggers and kept you in strafe as default.
Yo I thought that exact thing about Ratchet having shoot on circle while putting together this video. I considered mentioning it in the Halo/shoulder button section but decided against it to keep things lean. Great example of devs learning/understanding what's important and adjusting the control scheme to suit.
This is a really well made video Ty! I do wanna add an extra game into the conversation, Pac-Man World 2
If they remade the game then the issues (most likely) won't exist, but in the game as it is right now gets stuck on a TON of walls, and despite being a mostly free-cam, it'll randomly decide that you're not allowed to turn the camera until you're somewhere else. It's just plain annoying in whats otherwise a solid game.
Thank you, glad you liked it! The camera getting stuck on walls and stuff is one thing, but the devs just being like "yeah you just can't turn the camera here"? I wonder if the two are related lol, and they deliberately removed camera control in particularly problematic areas
I'd argue that some players need that smoothing/slowness to be able to play the game at all. Some players get motion-sick and a smoother camera is a must for accessibility. Thus, I propose an option to toggle this smoothing. Should it be Enabled by default? I say yes, but it depends on the intensity of the platforming and smoothing and probably other factors.
*I'm currently working on some short research on the topic of Cameras in 3D Platformers to improve my own. Mario 64 and Super Mario Odyssey, as this comment section mentions, keeps the player character in-frame so the player can platform nicely. I'm not sure if I can link the sources I've found so far, but I'll include them as a reply to this comment here. In short, the camera is slightly above the player's head and adapts to if the player is changing in the vertical-plane (Z or Y-axis depending on the game engine or whatever). I find it all interesting.*
Anyhow, responding more to the video again, having controller remapping and an alternative controller scheme are great ideas. I don't think forcing something that's not what the majority is accustomed to is the best idea though.
Another topic I've been researching is modernizing the 3D platformer, and, I don't think a fixed camera is the direction I personally would go in, but that very well might be a better option in some cases. Sonic Frontiers tried a Fixed camera in some sections with the main focus/majority of the time having a free-to-move-around camera. People kinda got annoyed at it when getting into a platforming section, but I did see that it helped for linearization and easier level design decisions.
Great video! I'm working on a 3D platformer so it's really interesting to hear your thoughts. What do you think of Mario Odyssey where the camera rotates horizontally to keep Mario onscreen?
Thank you, glad you found it interesting! If I'm honest I've not thought much about the camera in Odyssey (despite sinking hundreds of hours into that game) but as far as traditional camera systems go, I think you're right. Mario is always framed decently well and you generally get a good view of where you're going next, even with all the crazy cap jumps and parkour you can pull off. The fact that I can do all that stuff and NOT think too hard about the camera probably indicates that it's executed very well!
I'm working on a 3D platformer too and I'd like to share some info here just in case you weren't aware! I think what you're describing is sometimes called the "whisker method", where raycasts are extended out backward from the character in a fan formation. They detect objects that are likely to be in the way soon, and that info is used to preemptively move the camera away from the obstacle. With this in place, you can run around a big pillar (for example) and have the camera keep the player in view without ever having to manually adjust it.
More often I think the blame should be on level design. Mario 64 makes it hard to see Mario sometimes - but it's almost always okay because the camera buttons instantly snap to a new position.
Because this solution relied on that "snap", Mario Sunshine had to rethink its level design along with the smoother analogue camera.
Wall jump sections for example are either placed within big walls where ideal camera placement is invariable - or if the environment won't allow for that there are also those transparent grate elements that don't obscure Mario from any angle.
I had an idea for these 3D arrows that would point appear on screen, and pressing the "camera button" would snap the view to wherever it was pointing. A movement this fast would be disorienting without the arrow so I'm curious how well it would work.
Loved this video!
neat vid
0:27 You can map those actions to the shoulder buttons, they're largely useless in 3D platformers anyway.
I think you should have full control over the camera, unless you're making a Resident Evil, lol. I can't count how many times I've died in Mario 64 and other N64 3D platformers (as well as PSX ones) because I literally couldn't see where I was going.
Cool vid
Halo the 3d platformer lol. All jokes aside, great video, heavily underrated channel
Don't think YT notified me of this comment... But thank you! Hopefully more to come this year 🤞🏼
Exactly 9y ago today snowman music
use a mouse and keyboard