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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มิ.ย. 2022
- Donkey Kong 64 is one of the most hated games ever. As someone who loved the game as a kid I had to find out why for myself. I walked away with 3 main reasons on why people hate donkey kong 64. Too many collectables, padded out length and repeating mini games. Come with me now as I break down each of these 3 reasons to see if the haters are right and Donkey Kong 64 really is a bad game or if it's all just an overreaction. Come with me now as I find out why people hate Donkey Kong 64.
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I never knew people hated this game. I always loved it as a kid
I think the hate is a more recent phenomenon driven by youtube video essays and the "hot take" industry.
same
100% this game was a chore, to be honest.
Everyone hated the games I like😆 some people will just hate some things you like I learned that the hard way.
@@Shadow962775 absolutely man. It's easy to pick apart old games with dated graphics and mechanics. Telling people to "take off their rose colored glasses" seems to be the cool thing to do now.
As an adult, I can definitely recognize all the problems with this game.
But playing it as a kid, it was magical to have a game that never ended :D
As a kid, we have all the time to play, i 100% this game twice growing up. As an adult, i cant find the time to complete a long game like this. Still one of my favorite games all of time.
@@Tony-bf9xn you can still do it. The trick is. You need to apply every hour of progress you can do and push forward through the game. Even if it's 30-minutes to 1hour a day. You will. Be able to complete it eventually. The only things that's stopping you is your psyche
as an adult i think it’s a decent game i just beat it for the first time afew months ago and yeah it’s way harder than i remember it to be.
As someone who is going for 100% in Banjo Tooie right now, this games backtracking really isn’t too bad. The world’s are small, tag barrels are close, and warps are set up to take you to the worst areas. I just make one pass through the level as each Kong and get everything. There are very few moments when you need to unlock an area with one Kong and then come back with another.
In Banjo Tooie you are always backtracking for Mumbo or Wumba’s transformation. Part of it is that I don’t know this game as much as DK64 but there are several times where you have to walk back and forth to progress. Banjo Tooie spoilers below.
Ex. Terrydactkl Land - you have to scare the cave man. 1. you find him. 2. You go to Wumba to transform 3. Unless you already enlarged Wumba’s tent you need to get mumbo first. 4. Transform into big Dino. 5. Scare caveman 6. Go back to Wumba because Dino can’t enter the cave.
Also you can definitely beat these games as an adult, you just have to space them out. I’m almost finished with Tooie 100%. Based on my playtime now I expect it to take 30-35 hrs which is not long compared to many modern games but is long for a 3D platformer. For reference I have ~98% completion in Super Mario Odyssey at ~50hrs.
@@mysticolored what you describe is a akin to working chores . "Apply every hour of progress". Yeah that does sound like homework too.
The big thing I loved about the game was that it truly felt like a huge world. All the levels felt so big and held so many secrets. The much-decried "backtracking" was actually experienced as exploration by most children, who would unlock a new power or kong, or flip some kind of switch on the other end of the level, and then go to see what has changed. Since play time was broken up by school, chores, homework, dinner, parental crankiness, etc, there was ample time for palette cleansing as well. DK64 is like a bottle of expensive whiskey: you could drink half the bottle in one night, but that is so much less enjoyable than spacing it out over a month or more.
Yeah yeah all of this but gosh it was big worlds and I was exploring and collecting a lot.
This perspective is lost on devs I feel. It's lost on show runners too, let me reach into my bag and pull out Netflix's ATLA in a place it has no business being---
But yeah, binge has taken over everything and DK64 is not a game designed to be binged. Binge is bad for games, it's bad for shows and movies, it's bad for everything.
I agree. I wish I could have played DK64 as a kid but my parents got me a PS1 instead of an N64. I did get into the Spyro games though and as a kid, it was fun for pretty much the same reasons.
This is a great take, but as much as I was inspired to explore and collect everything over the course of a few weeks, I struggled to enjoy replaying the game due to the painfully slow text scrolling and repeated setpieces. What it needs is the Fast Ocarina of Time treatment.
I definitely agree, the binge model just doesnt work well
As a child, I had no issues with collecting everything, but as an adult the Tag Anywhere romhack breathed new life into the game for me.
Tag anywhere is a massive improvement for the game!
No matter how good or bad DK64 as a game may be, it graced us with the ultimate form of fire known as the DK Rap
It's gold
True
The day my dad fired this game up and the rap started we lost our everliving shit!
I have the soundtrack to this game on CD. It was a staple of my childhood. 👍🏻
Bars
I still argue DK64 did not kill the genre.
I think it was a combination of the AAA studios drifting away from them and AA studios flooding them with umarketable characters and unpolished gameplay.
It created market data during the Gamecube/PS2 era that publishers read into too closely.
I mean if you look at the top selling game of every year, you notice a definite pattern of good games being the top seller until the year DK64 topped the charts. After that you get a noticeable divergence from that kind of quality stuff over to games like Call of Duty. Not all of them were bad though, of course the fantastic GTA games popped up as top seller a few of those years. It is fascinating how the release of DK64 marked a drastic change in what kind of game would be the top seller for the subsequent years, though, and cannot be ignored.
which genre?
@@badwolf8112 Collectathon 3D Platformer
Yeah cause 3D platformers were still performing well into the 6th gen with jak and Daxster, Ratchet and Clank, BFBB,
@@DMVGREY Sly Cooper as well
We shouldn't forget that this game released at a time were 3d games were still new so the priorities for developers were very different compared to now. The start of the 3d era was basically an exploration of new possibilities and as a result of this the public was really excited to see games get bigger and bigger with every release. This early 3d era hype was basically the reason why this game wanted to be as big as possible with as much content as possible. Nowadays this is different since we already know that developers can make big detailed open world games, but back in the day people were excited to see how big games could get. This also explains why the public perception of this game changed so drastically over the years. It is simply a shift in consumer expectations of what a game should strive to be.
The thing with the game is that it's clearly not meant to be cleared in like, just a sitting or two, if you just take your time, go on your way with each kong without bothering yourself too much on the stuff for the others yet with the idea of "i can get to that later, for now i'll do what i can do", and just actually try to have fun, then you'll actually enjoy it and not feel too overwhelmed, normally people hating on it just want to do everything at once, which is where the problem is
Beaver bother tho
Wow I’m such a gamer lol since I was a kid playing this and taking my time.
Beaver bother is indeed one of the actual problems
Me and my entire family beat Donkey Kong 64 together. Collecting, mini games, bosses, we traded based off our strengths and ultimately beat it as children. A crowing achievement considering how young we were.
That's awesome. With me and my sister it was always fighting over who got to play.
maybe thats why its loved by so many people and forget that it was tedious. the game was shared with family members. brothers/sisters/cousins would each take a turn passing the controller with one another.
My family took turns and we each claimed one of the Kong characters.
That sounds awesome
Yeah I have 3 siblings and we all specialized in separate Kongs.
I've literally never heard anyone saying they hated DK64. My friend and I would spend countless hours playing that incredible game!
Same this is my first time. Matter of fact it's what made me click this video out of confusion and curiosity
Nobody "hated" the game, but people now recognize it's a relic with some poor design decisions. It's absolutely padded, which is a sin in modern gaming, but was a virtue in the 90s.
Same here, never heard of anyone hating this game!
On me tho I was playing this game before I could read not knowing what my next assignment was to process the story, so I’d just put in countless hours turning over every single rock till I got the next cut scene …. And I love every second of it
@Punkrock Noir why?
Shout out to the OGs that found all the blueprints and the rare ware coin
To this day I still have the original savefile, I used to play on with my 2 older brothers. There is over 200hours and 101% completion
Honestly, the backtracking never bothered me, because a tag barrel was almost always only a short trip away, and they were easy to find due to the shine effect you see when the barrel is far away. I understand why switching characters could be bothersome, but it just never really got on my nerves.
Dk 64 wasn’t as bad as Banjo Tooie, with the backtracking.
@@davonbenson4361 No, Banjo-Tooie didn't really bother me either. Yeah, a lot of jiggies required traversing multiple worlds to obtain, but that was easy since multiple worlds were interconnected in one way or another.
I guess I don't mind going through areas I've already been to as long as there are new things to uncover.
Great point.
I don't really mind backtracking anyway, as I enjoy playing games.
Yeah, the backtracking through multiple levels aspect was cool in Tooie. DK got stale in just rewalking the labyrinth-type worlds which were huge and diverse but that almost made it more confusing. If i didnt have the guidebook for the map of DK 64 my lil kid brain would not have gotten it.
And having replayed it many many times just to seldom get past frantic factory was painful.
I even learned some speedrunning routes and minimizations just to cut out the ridiculous collectables and just get the game done with.
Same. The backtracking is overhated.
Considering Mario literally says “It’s A-Me Mario” as his most famous phrase… I’m baffled people still say Mare-io.
I was literally thinking this same thing the first time he said it. Where did this come from? Bonus points if they say "browser"
@Raider Slater that’s about how long the raiders offence can stay good in a game :)
English.
Is that like a New Yorker thing? I hate that.
@Raider Slater Fr I’m about to stop watching he’s said it 15 times in like 3 minutes
First game I played on the N64. Got it for Christmas. It blew my fucking mind as a kid. Such a badass game. Networking with my friends and cousins on secrets and banana locations. So fun. Holds a special place in my heart. ❤
I loved it. Only now am I reading that it's hated. As a kid I couldn't tell how it was different to Mario 64 or Banjo Kazooie, and from memory I still can't.
theres a romhack that lets you swap kongs on the fly and it really cuts down the tedium
That would have fixed it, if it was like NES ninja turtles. Maybe a count down timer to avoid exploiting it through rapid swapping.
I wasn't even aware that this game was even hated. I loved it as a kid, love it as an adult.. honestly figured it was widely considered a classic.
it is. it was.
This is the best donkey Kong game they ever made. I still don’t get why Nintendo made a 3d one and every other DK game made since then has been a side scrolling game. We’ve got better technology now, why do you keep on making Donkey Kong Country?
Yeah man. Just like what you like. Apparently the Gamecube was considered a flop, but that probably because it was after the legacy of the NES, SNES, and N64. None of that affects my stance on Gamecube being my favorite.
of course you didn’t knew, because everyone loves it, seriously who ever hated this game???
@@genemc777 because RARE made dk 64 . The other dk game are made by another company
I have never in my whole 20 plus years of life ever once heard anyone trash this game from the kids my age (at the time) to the older kids in high school to the dads playing with there children no one had anything negative to say not even once, this is a masterpiece
There’s a reason why “collectathons” only existed for about 5 years.
Dk64 is not a particularly bad collectathon, but it is a collectathon.
Gonna have to agree with ya on that. It's not even nostalgia talking either. My younger cousins, nieces, and nephews that have played this game enjoy it (save for the graphics). They all like the general charm and gameplay. Compared to the big copy paste titles today, it's quite unique
same and im 27
I'm 32 and when this came out I was so beyond disappointed with it.
Coming from Donkey Kong Country 2 and 3 which are some of _the best_ 2D platforming, possibly ever, it was a major letdown.
Especially since Banjo Kazooie is on the same system, and is objectively the better collectathon game.
@@Luparf I had the exact opposite experience. The difference is I now have hindsight and DK64 is ass, looking back. I played DKC2-3, Banjo games, Mario 64 and most other major games at the time. I was a child and loved this game. I really don't think I was ever extremely disappointed with anything at the age of 9 lol I can't think of a single game I hated at that time in my life.
Multiplayer unlocked with peanut guns is absolutley amazing. Good times
DK64 only has 1482 collectibles. As others have pointed out, the colored bananas come in singles, bunches of 5 and balloons of 10. I went through the players guide and found out there are only 1241 actual colored banana collectibles.
Jungle Japes, Frantic Factory, Gloomy Galleon and Crystal Caves all have 20 singles, 10 bunches and 3 balloons per Kong, equaling 165 total per level and 660 together.
Angry Aztec has 25 singles, 9 bunches and 3 ballons per Kong, equaling 185 for the level and 845 together.
Fungi Forest has 30 singles, 10 bunches and 2 balloons per Kong, equaling 210 for the level ans 1055 together.
Creepy Castle is weird in that there isn't an even number between all Kongs. Donkey has 50 singles, 6 bunches and 2 balloons, Diddy has no singles, 10 bunches and 5 balloons, Lanky has 5 singles, 11 bunches and 4 balloons, Tiny has 45 singles, 7 bunches and 2 balloons and Chunky has 30 singles, 4 bunches and 5 balloons. This equal 186 for the level and 1241 together.
Add in the rest of the collectibles and you get 1482, though it could be argued that it should actually be 1402 as the 40 blueprints and medals are redundant - 40 of the golden bananas require the blueprints to collect and the medals are awarded automatically after collecting 75 colored bananas but since both are necessary to separate points of progression, then we can settle on 1482 actual separate items to collect which puts it comfortably between Banjo and Mario 64.
Yes, but the same could be said for Banjo (and possibly Mario 64 but I haven't played it). Notes are grouped into bundles of 5 or a trebleclef of 20. There are 16 note bundles and 1 trebleclef per level (with 9 levels), which brings that collectible down to 153. Also, 9 jiggies are earned automatically by collecting jinjo's, which brings the jiggy count down to 81. So the total number of collectibles in that game is actually only 347.
@@sheldesroches745 that's fair and honestly needs to be part of any conversation about the genre and these games in particular.
@@sheldesroches745Notes are only bunched together in the second game. In Banjo-Kazooie 100 notes are 100 notes.
I think all the “critics” forgot the part where the majority of normal functioning human beings don’t give a shit about “completing the game” to 100%
My thought as well. I haven't played as an adult but we just beat the game and didn't feel the need to collect 3000 bananas.
Same, collectables are optional. If you don't like it, the game isn't forcing you to find them all
Why play a collect a thon game then? The main draw of those games is...well you guessed it collecting. Without it those games are maybe still good, but wouldnt be as high in their standing imo. The gameplay parts on its own only really hold up in Mario 64.
But this is coming from someone that never really liked that type of game, so take my opinion for what it is.
Technically in the game it is 101% same as Donkey Kong Country. Back in the day when this was your one and only new game to play for the entire year or more, it was definitely achievable
@@Phyrrax You could use the same argument for any game. Most games have a range of activities to do, yet nobody forces you to do everything perfectly. Even collectathons had lowball minimums to complete for people who just wanted to finish them and move on.
As a kid, DK 64 captivated such a sense of longevity that I didn't understand until after I watched this video. It truly is a timeless piece on so many different levels (no pun intended).
Counterpoints:
1. Collectibles:
Bananas are often bunched up in groups of 5 or 10 in key locations, and when they're individual bananas, they're often just on the path with the color indicating which Kong you might want to use for that area. Bananas are not generally hard to get, aside from the occasional poorly placed one - the game's not perfect, but in this respect it's still pretty good. If you go for all the bananas, you're gonna get all the banana medals, so that's a non-issue. The fairies are generally in key areas, or occasionally in more niche areas that are still important to the main game - main complaint: they sometimes move too fast or erratically, but they're generally not an issue. Blueprints are part of golden banana count. Golden bananas highlight key areas of the map and act as markers. Keys are key to the story. Crowns and arcade coins are asides - a little break from map exploration. Collectathons are all about map exploration. If you're not a completionist, you won't have much trouble collecting enough to progress. If you are, this isn't that frustrating.
2. Character switching/backtracking:
Some areas are common areas for multiple Kongs. Being in the same area 2 times to do 2 different things isn't backtracking. The teleportation pads are useful to minimizing truly unnecessary backtracking - learn to use them. Seriously, what do you want instead?
A one character collectathon ?- sure, those are great, but it's not this game and it throws away one of the appeals of this game.
Isolated paths for each character ?- maybe - could be done poorly by just having what amount to "levels" as paths for each map (antithetical to collectathon map design)- or it could be done well. You'd have to make sure that the paths don't feel isolated. Maybe have them meet up in near misses, or actually connect them back together in common areas. Would you have gameplay in those common areas? If you keep following this train of thought, you'll wind up at something that looks like DK64 or maybe a slight alternative design. Feel free to make that game with some key design difference to DK64 - I'd play it.
3. Minigame repetition:
Sure, I see the benefits of a unique minigame every time. Personally, it doesn't really bug me, but if it bugs you, that's fair.
Just one critique on the comparison with the collectibles...
There were a lot of those Banana "Bundles" with 5 Bananas on it. So basically one shouldnt count the total coloured bananas, but only the items that can be picked up individually as a collectible.
So for example if we assume that half of the bananas in a level consisted of those 5 packs, that would make 10 collectibles for 50 plus 25 until 75 which you need for the banana medals, which you need for 101%.
That would make it 35 coloured banana collectibles in each level for each character. There were 5 characters and 8 levels... In total that would make 1400 coloured banana collectibles for 101%.
Just a vague guess, but even with a slight adjustment of the variables it is way below those 3.5k
Agreed, that bugged me too. To add to that, counting blueprint pieces and banana medals is redundant as the blueprints are necessary to get all of the Golden Bananas and the banana medals are automatically awarded after getting 75 colored bananas in a level.
Yes, they technically count towards the 101% total, and you do need 75 medals to progress the final level, but in a comparison like this, it's unfair to count them separately as "collecting" them is either integral or automatic to collecting another core item.
@Dargonhuman so in super Mario 64, we wouldn't count the coins, because they're just used to get a star, and we wouldn't count the stars, because they're just used to get the boss keys? Lol
@@left4twenty no. Your false equivalence would be the same as not counting colored bananas or golden bananas. Red coins would be more analogous as they only exist to gain a star, just as blueprints only exist to gain a golden banana.
@@Dargonhuman other than the mechanic of collecting 100 coins to get a star, gold coins are analogous to honeycombs in banjo kazooie (they restore health)
So all the honeycombs need to be counted as collectibles in banjo kazooie too then?
Apparently in dk64 it is watermelons that restore health, so in dk64, the watermelons are collectibles? Or is everything you have to gather to get 100% considered a "collectible"?
@@left4twenty go watch the video, he explains it clearly there.
replaying DK64 as an adult, i was surprised by how physically small the levels were. but after an initial hit of disappointment, i remembered how much backtracking there was and became relieved by the smallness.
It's funny. I remember the back tracking and thought it was cool because you had to play the levels a lot and remember where everything is. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that people want things as simple and linear as possible.
It was the poor mans Banjo Kazooie/Mario 64/
@@vgold4286 dk64 multiplayer was fun
@@vgold4286 it was better
@@aw98000 I’m not saying it wasn’t, I’m just saying it was a shadow of the games I mentioned. Obviously regarding Banjo, they had similar tones for obvious reasons.
As a kid with only 1 or 2 games at a time, DK64 was awesome. If I wanted to play a game, I generally had to replay an area I'd already been to, so always having something new to do when I went through the old areas again was a great plus for DK64. Unfortunately, as an adult I now have more games and less time, so that same feature ends up being a major issue. I'm glad I played DK64 as a kid and not an adult.
Honestly I absolutely loved this game a lot it felt so great unlocking more characters by saving them from the cage, it felt rewarding and it felt like you were a hero in a way. The levels where really great too very visually appealing. Man I just wish there were more games that give me this feeling and are similar
Literally the first time I've ever heard someone complain about this game. Getting over an hour of gameplay out of the first level is amazing. If you aren't a completionist, that's OK. Doesn't mean the game sucks
every time you say “mayrio” I die a little inside
It seems to be a New Englander thing. I notice that many people from that region pronounce the name "Mary-o."
I'm having a hard time. It's a VERY well known ip, he knows he's pronouncing it wrong
@@perrygrimwood4901 It's the French pronunciation. This happens a lot in Pittsburgh because of Mario Lemieux. The Italian version is pronounced the other way.
This triggered me more than it should lol
He's gotta be trolling
This would be the reason I'd "dislike" the vid....his opinion is pretty based honestly
But that kind of thing drives me up the fucking wall
I only had 6 64 videogames,the fact that DK were endless made my childhood amazing.
Which 6 did you have?
@@mariokart8715 Zelda OoT, Dk 64, Diddy Kong Racing, Mario 64, Starwars racing ep 1, Starwars Rogue Squadron.
I has 4 games in my childhood. I loved play DK 64.
@@ShineOnDarkness Diddy Kong racing was such a gem, loved it way more than Mario Kart. I still can't get some of the music out of my head haha
Yeah I had only six as well (DK64, M64, Zelda OoT, Zelda Majora's Mask, 007, Mario Kart). DK64 simply seemed so massive compared to the others and that's what made it so great in 1999.
Playing this as a kid, all I remember was having so much fun. Not sure how having fun kills a genre. Just because a few people hated it, everyone jumped on the hate train.
I loved Donkey Kong 64 as a kid and still do today. I don't care what people say.
I think some people forget that their opinions about something can change solely due to their current circumstances. When DK64 came out it was pretty much what people wanted it to be at that time. I'm very proud to have this among the games I 100% as a child. Exploring every nook and cranny the old fashioned way, discovering each secret and tackling each challenge. The pacing is great because while there is so so much to do and find, it's not like this is all in such a massive space as today's games. It's rarely overwhelming and you constantly have something catching your attention that is just as important as anything else.
You must have been exceptionally good at games and/or had A LOT of free time on your hands. The average 6-10 year old would not have been able to 100% this game.
Nah, this video is just straightup bullshıt and lies.
This game was and is great, and everyone knows it.
@@obvioushieidude7668 The average American, maybe.
@@obvioushieidude7668 i was 12 no problem. I'm not American though but Swedish.
@@Rubbe87 I know English is not your first language but I clearly said 6-10. Last time I checked 12 was not between 6-10. Also I didn’t mention nationality at all. Allon Vorlete did.
I cant express how thankful I am as a viewer that you IMMEDIATELY got to the point and then broke it down thoroughly. You've earned a sub
Not only do mini games repeat, but mini games are relied on far too much IMO.
Donkey Kong 64 desperately needed a sequel. It had lots of great ideas that just didn't fit together right. A new game where those ideas can be tweeked to work better would make a great experience.
Yeah, it was weird where Nintendo made Donkey Konga 1 and 2 as well as Jungle Beat, probably due to the Rare buyout from Microsoft. Still strange why Nintendo didn't create a platformer for the series on GameCube, at least in the traditional sense..
Then ask the yooka laylee devs
That's what I feel, I feel it was underdeveloped.
Yes I wanted a sequel so bad
@@Foun_D_OnePiece Yooka Laylee didn't have the same charm. Not sure if it was because of how platformers aged or if it was missing something. I felt like it should have had a couple more levels.
People have to understand more collectibles, mini games, and areas to explore with different characters back then was a good thing.
Exactly back then people didn't have that many games so a game like DK64 need alot replay value. More bang for your buck
Replay value is everything. Mario64 and banjo kazooie are dog shit compared to dk64
@@henrry889 In terms of replay value Mario 64 makes DK 64 look horrible.
The amount of content in DK64 is large, but it's mostly low quality, a huge amount of it is unengaging backtracking. And the game's core mechanics are boring. Mario's incredible controls and game feel makes DK64 feel so stiff and lifeless in comparison.
A part of what makes a game worth replaying is the ability to engage with it in different and interesting ways. And in that sense, Mario 64 is so much better than DK64 it's absurd to even compare them.
There's a reason there's a large community of people still playing Mario 64 even now, while DK64 is largely forgotten except to remember how overrated it was.
but it's not anymore
@@henrry889 Mario64 takes a gigantic dump on dk64 and it came out 3 years earlier.
The multiplayer in this gane is slept on, it's a ton of fun
No problem with collectibles
No problem with changing kongs
No problem with repeating sections
No problem with repeated mini games
My problem starts when due to bad camera angle i fall from ledges, bridges & i have to go back & repeat that stupid bridge section again & again with utmost accuracy
Absolutely loved it. Never met someone who openly hated it.
-Amazing music
-Long ass game
-Nostalgia
I'd like to personally speak who ever doesn't like it. And by speak I mean beat
+when you bought it you got a Nintendo 64 expansion pack included, at least here in Europe!
@@seriousreport6743 Lucky
I openly hated it since it was released. It's such a mediocre title.
@@garlandstrife what titles do you prefer nerd? 😂😂😂😂 can’t wait to hear this.
This game is an absolute masterpiece. Too many collectibles is a silly reason to hate it.
thats the exact reason i like it xD
"too many collectables" sounds like a line from a IGN review
Yeah I’m guessing this youtuber just wanted a controversial take to drive views. It’s a fantastic and atmospheric game. It’s up there with The best of them for the time it came out
@@gee8648 I still think, there is some things messed up, the 2 biever games in the last world are the true endboss, also the controlls in general are janky hack. im not sure, how many versions have this bug, but on my virtual console version and my friends cartridge (both eu version), when selecting the second save slot, in jungle japes you cant destroy the rambi wall, where i think was a banana fairy and some stuff for chunky. I still 100% the game from time to time though xD
Now when you have to switch Kongs to get em all. 5 kongs is at least 3 too many, game is a disaster.
in an era where there was no basically no online games i kinda enjoyed the density of this game, as a kid I played it for like 5 years (of course while playing another stuff too). its density makes the run so much longer and this was actually a good thing
The totals for BT notes, SM64 coins, and DK 64 bananas should be lower because you often find them in bunches. 100% in Mario Odyssey only requires 880 moons, at least as far as speedrunners define it. The Odyssey costumes throw a wrench in everything though, since you should also include the coins required to buy those costumes. That adds another ~26,000 or so to the total required collectibles (yes, these are often in bunches as well).
I think another angle to consider is how many _types_ of collectibles there are. In DK64 there are bananas/banana bunches/banana balloons in five different colors, banana coins in five different colors (sometimes in a rainbow five coin variety), blueprints in five different colors, golden bananas, banana medals, watermelons (sometimes in crates), ammo supply crates, orange grenades, crystal coconuts, film rolls, banana fairies, battle crowns, boss keys, the Nintendo coin, and the Rareware coin. This variety really adds to the feeling of "wow there are a lot of collectibles in this game".
You are right that the bunched collectibles should be taken into account for the totals, but they did address in the video that only collectibles that advance the game completion percentage are counted. In DK64 that's only colored bananas, golden bananas, boss keys, the two game tokens, battle crowns, fairies, and banana medals. Colored coins, health pickups and consumables (ammo, film, crystal coconuts, etc) don't add to the completion counter and aren't included.
@@Dargonhuman I understand that's how he was counting things. I get it, it would be impossible to get a firm number if you start including health pickups, etc. However, the fact of the matter is that you will be collecting those during a playthrough...and there are a lot of them.
If the purpose of the video is to really drill into the main criticisms of the game, I think focusing on that one collectible total number misses the mark. When people say the game has too many collectibles, there are other aspects to consider, like the number of types of collectibles and the raw number of things you collect (including health/consumable types).
The note count for Banjo Tooie is inflated a little bit - all notes in Tooie are in clumps of 5, with an additional treble clef worth 20 notes in each level. So in practice clumping all 900 notes into 144 note nests and 9 treble clefs means the de facto collectible count for Tooie goes from 1104 down to 366.
dk64 had clumps of bananas as well, and sometimes there were balloons that could be popped
this probably makes mario64's item count go up higher in comparison, because I think the number of blue coins in mario64 is a lot lower than the number of clumped bananas (and balloons) in DK64 and red coins in mario 64 are only worth 2 coins
I feel one thing that wasn't mentioned was how the different colored collectibles can be helpful in some ways. They are usually used as a trail to show you which character is needed up ahead. It helps encourage the player to switch to the proper character.
That aside, I never realized just how big DK64 was when compared to other games in the genre. Really informative video.
Personally I always loved the amount of exploring you could do and the variety in the worlds you could do it. Never really bothered me that there was a lot of backtracking because the game has great world designs paired with an amazing OST.
Yeah, I don't think most of the criticism was fair at all. First of all, the bananas were often found in bundles, which means that you didn't have to look for every separate banana out of the 3000+ that were included in the game. He should've counted the amount of bundles and divided the total number of bananas by it, but he didn't even mention this for some reason. However, I don't even think the total number of collectables in a game means anything at all because the only thing that is relevant is how fun it is to collect them. A game could have a very small amount of collectables and still make finding them feel like a chore due to bad level design, so the raw number of them doesn't really give you an idea of how fun or repetitive the game actually is.
Also, the color mechanic was a smart way to guide players, as you mentioned. It wasn't there to increase the amount of hours via pointless backtracking, but to give players a clue so they knew that they probably needed to do something with a particular character in order to solve a puzzle in that area. The fact that this criticism completely ignores how cool and innovative was the feature of being able to play as different characters, each with different skills is kind of unfair too.
Lastly, I remember the minigames as some of the most fun (albeit sometimes frustrating) parts of the game. There was enough variety of them and you didn't run into a repeated one until several levels later, they didn't feel like repetitive grinding, at least not to me.
In conclusion, I don't really understand why this game is treated differently from Banjo Tooie or other similar titles. It had cool levels, cool bosses, it was funny, every character was unique and fun to play, it had a fun multiplayer, etc. Also, how could it be to blame for killing a genre if it was a really successful game when it came out? That doesn't really make any sense to me.
@@sk8_bort I had thought of that too. It is kind of unfair to count the bananas separately as there are plenty of bundles and balloons in each level. On top of that, 3500 only sounds daunting if you don't mention that the number is divided among 8 different levels. Typically you would always find enough bananas to open the boss door simply just by exploring the levels for golden bananas. By the time you'd get the boss door open the banana medals would usually be within reach by maybe an extra few bananas you'd have to find, usually hidden in plain sight.
I also agree with you about the mini games. There was normally plenty of time between each so you wouldn't feel like that was all the game was for that moment.
Your comments do make me realize something, though. I feel not every game has to be judged upon the ability to 100% it and how easy it is to do so. There's absolutely nothing wrong with someone enjoying playing through the main game and skipping some of the extra side tasks. There's also absolutely nothing wrong with a game having plenty of extra tasks for you after the main story is completed. It allows for exploration and variety for each player and lots of replayability; both for those who do enjoy collecting everything and for those that just like casually exploring.
I understand the game can feel a little daunting to a completionist. I feel a majority of DK64 players have never 100% completed it. Honestly I think that's fine. I myself haven't even done that, but I still enjoy the game and it's replayability. Every time I find myself coming back to DK64 and starting a new game I always enjoyed having the ability just to re-explore each level, taking new paths and find the things I didn't before. Almost every time I would find something I didn't the time before and it kept the game fresh to me.
Now I think after all this I might have to setup my N64 soon and play it again....
Name of the Aquatic Ambience remix version that plays at the end of the video?
I sadly havent played it since my childhood but i feel nothing but love whenever i think about it ❤
As a kid i loved the longevity of this game I couldn't afford mario 64 and all my friends were done with their mario 64 games and would come over to play dk 64 with me, because there was so much to play in mine.
i thought it came with n64. buying n64 and not mario back in 90s is strange. like buying a toaster and not a bread
@@flowrepins6663 My step dad got mine from somewhere cheap and got me the game from a pawn shop
The collectables wouldn't be so bad if they didn't have the color coding. If I walk over a banana just give me the banana. The only time it should be Kong gated is if abilities naturally gate it such as needing to helicopter twirl across a gap to get the collectable(s)
Yes Thats a Great Idea
Fr. It’s literally not about how much it’s just the arbitrary amount of backtracking you need to do.
@@Kdkjdjewerdnxa Yeah
The swap anywhere rom hack makes this problem (nearly) go away
@@visualsynthetics9882 Exact
The fact you used guiness book as a reference told me all I needed to know...
the funny thing is, it is wrong, and a youtuber who explained a any% TAS run of the game actually said the correct amount.
When I was first old enough to use the Internet I remember looking up reviews and forum posts about Donkey Kong 64 and was honestly really shocked that so many people didn't like it. Donkey Kong 64 has meant more to me than any other game I've ever played. It's the game that first cemented my love for video games, it's what made me want to start making my own games, and it jumpstarted my love for music. I can 100% agree with all the gripes that people have with it, but even if the face of all its negatives, DK64 is still perfect to me ❤️
I think an important thing to remember about this era of gaming is that kids were still the primary demographic, and kids generally don't have a lot of disposable income. N64 games were expensive, and most may have only gotten two games a year at the most - one on their birthday and one for Christmas. Because of that, it was important for games to have a lot of longevity. Technical limitations were a consideration, too. These days you can make a game pretty much as long as you want and cram in as much content as you want, but back then file sizes were very limited. In many cases the only way to increase the playtime of a game was to either crank up the difficulty or give the player lots of extra busywork to do.
Multiplayer too, that's something the N64 excelled in. DK64 also had multiplayer and had great Rare quality to it.
I think this explains it nicely. If you think of DK64 as a modern day adult, yeah it's a chore.
But thinking of a kid who could only get so many games a year it was a dream come true, specially with the killer multiplayer.
On my case, I'm the youngest of 3 brothers and having a crazy huge game was mind blowing. If any, the issue was when our collective dumb brain couldn't figure out aspects of the game lol
I loved it. Only now am I reading that it's hated. As a kid I couldn't tell how it was different to Mario 64 or Banjo Kazooie, and from memory I still can't.
This is very valid, but as a counterpoint, a lot of kids got most of their gaming from rentals, at the time. So renting a game like this, with no hope of seeing all of it over the course of a weekend, was probably pretty soul-crushing. Especially when you consider all the previous games in the DK series made for perfect rental fodder.
It was hated by kids. Kids loved banjo but hated this
How can anyone hate this game? This game was and still is awesome.
>watches a video detailing the flaws the game had which makes it frustrating to play
"HOW CAN ANYONE HATE THE GAME?!?!?!?!"
I mean, I‘m 4 minutes in and the „too many collectibles“ „critique“ is already a matter of taste.
@@V1G4M1 You can try to say anything is just "a matter of taste". If we have zero bar of quality that we communally agree to base ideas and products on, then nothing is a bad or good idea. It wasn't just that there were too many collectables, it was how those collectables were collected (only certain banana colors can be picked up by certain kongs). The colored bananas are 100% why this game gets the hate it does. If it didn't have them, no one would really complain about how many collectables there were or even about repeating minigames. It's 100% the unfun and game slow-downing via collecting all the colored bananas. It is an indefensibly bad game design.
@@boobyslater9390 that is point 2 or 3 in the video and came after I wrote my comment. I do agree to this tho, it can feel tedious the way it was executed ^^
@@boobyslater9390 need some lube to take that stick out of your ass or do you just enjoy the feeling ?
The game was a lot of fun. I'm sorry you aren't able to enjoy life.
In 1999 I don't think we had today's mindset of "ugh well I guess I HAVE to get ALL the collectibles before I stop playing." lol
When I was younger I absolutely had the mindset to always 100% every game I play.
I no longer do it, it's not worth it.
Anyone knows what ost that is from 6:32 ? Is it from DK 64 or another game?
Forest Interlude from Donkey Kong Country 2
as a kid we did not give a shit. It was such a beautiful experience playing dk64. so Many memories, so Many good times.
I still don't give a shit lol I don't understand why anyone does
@@rightbehindyou9398 Well youtube video essays are made to dissect 20+ year old media for no other reason then to get views so now people care I guess.
This game was a true classic. Replaying it as an adult is no bother because I already know what to do. Also, Chunky Kong is the greatest character known to man kind.
We? Who is this we? As a child I thought this was shit too. Don't pretend like this is something all of a sudden said. I remember reading other people's disdain for it over a decade ago.
Eugh! This generation man. Their micro-analysis of games in the 90s. They done this with Pokémon Red & Blue as well, picked out all the flaws that we didn't notice as kids back then
This takes a pretty “objective” look at stuff, going down the literal numbers and comparisons to make its point, but a big point about games is not the number of things but the psychology surrounding them, the decision making process as you go through elements. I really feel like that’s where it falls apart, but ironically where the impact of it is. I was at the prime age when dk64 was being marketed and I do recall a lot of hype being built up around it. For some reason it had to be a BIG game, and at the time hearing about “5 different characters, dozens of collectibles” felt like it made sense. It’s the sequel to the beloved country games, and building off of the other n64 games before it, so why wouldn’t it have more? I think this is why you still have people doing the “it’s still a great game!” thing, they just bought that much into the hype the game had at the time. “Wow, it took me 20-30 hours to beat this game, that’s way longer than mario 64 or banjo-kazooie, what great value.” As a kid, all you got is free time. You aren’t going to judge it that deeply, you barely have standards being set at that point.
But let’s go back to that decision making process. What are your options when you see blue bananas but you’re DK? You have one option dude; switch to lanky and come back.
Collectibles in games, by themselves, aren’t fun; what makes them fun is their context in highlighting amount of an area you’ve explored, how many meaningful challenges you’ve completed. They’re meant to cap off a fun experience, not be the experience themselves.
The effect of these collectibles, the amount of backtracking, the amount of repeated minigames, all add up to being padding, not player expression. You cant really go through the game as your favorite character and exploring as much as you want with them. You’ll come across a button that has ONE specific kong’s face on it, so that’s the one you HAVE to switch to. All to push a button, which isn’t terribly engaging to begin with. I think that’s the other part of it, it’s just not all that interesting to go around and platform in, with most objectives being based around minigames that don’t really connect to where you are or what you’re doing. The issue isn’t that you have 3000 collectibles. You could have 100 collectibles, but if they aren’t tied to engaging moment-to-moment gameplay, it’s not fun. And when people are removed from that hype at the time, and have other games they spent their childhoods or Christmas mornings or whatever on, they aren’t going to have that experience smoothed out by nostalgia.
I think the biggest reason why we loved this game as kids but resent it as adults is, in essence, because it doesn't respect our time and we don't have the time and frustration tolerance we had as kids. I recently started completing the game again on an emulator. It really felt more like a chore or a piece of work than fun and I put it on hold in Kreepy Kastle. And I can tell you exactly why:
Beaver Bother. Not only is it the hardest version in that stage iirc, but you have to play it TWICE (at least). One time with Lanky in the tower at the top and one time with Donkey in the tree stump/drainage (iirc).
I will still keep this game in my heart as a great childhood memory but I would never recommend any sane adult to try to complete this game now or in the future.
However, I will defend it in some points:
The arbitrary number of collectables is extremely inflated.
You don't need to collect every single colored banana, boss keys, the two coins and the battle crowns (iirc) are neccessary to beat the game in the first place. A lot of colored bananas and by extension banana medals are also neccessary to access the bosses so you gather them naturally. Yes, this also applies to other games comparable to DK64 but just having overall lower numbers feels less "agressive" towards the game.
I fully agree with the character switching and mini game repeat criticisms though. They are 100% justified.
And yet I wish they'd give us another 3D Donkey Kong platformer. I want to see Chunky in glorious HD (in a game, the movie already made him look fantastic imo).
They could have every character have different attributes like Diddy has his double jump from 64 he can use to traverse one path and Tiny can run faster to traverse a different path but they both reach the same banana.
Or Lanky is the only one who can climb vines to ascend a structure but Chunky can just straight up tear it down or grab heavy objects to build a staircase and ascend. It gives the player agency over which Kong they can use and it puts puzzle variety into the game. They can also have different combat stats. Chunky and Donkey are bigger and slower, so they have more health and hit harder while Diddy and Tiny have less health and attack power but are quicker and Lanky has his long arms to increase his range a bit while having balanced stats. Stuff like this. (Yes sometimes I think about a possible new 3D DK, why do you ask?)
It's funny that even having "work" inside a game was a really cool thing back then. Anything to spend more time in the game I loved. You even grow to strangely enjoy the completion effect, like a worker doing a good job, it does take time to grow on you though. As kids we had all the time in the world to obsess over collectables.
I feel like we should not always focus on "Must 100% this game" because in the end just because a game offers an insane amount of content doesn't mean you are forced to play it all. I can see how it becomes a chore and some parts of games simple aren't fun but overall the will to 100% a game should come from motivation and fun. Not because you have to. On the other hand you spent much more time with the games you have if you don't have so many games or spent as much money on them (which is much more emphasised today)
This is my biggest frustration of the video. You can literally avoid all of these complaints if you don't go for 100% You can beat the game without touching a single banana barrel. You only need to collect 75 bananas on any kong 13 times over the entire game, then the bananas required to unlock the boss. His final comments of "I guess if you're the kind of person that likes that then you'll like this game." Like... that's less than 25% of the game. And 0% of the game if you aren't going for 100%.
yeah i think modern gamers are missing the point of this game. it's obvious that the designers didnt expect players to ever attempt 100% completion
@@stevesmithy5644 they for sure did. All the bananas had a N64 logo on them except the last one that was super hard to get. It had a RARE logo on it. I never minded the grind. I mean ... I was fine catching 150 pokemon and grinding them to level 100. This was nothing.
But you forget something: you need to find blueprints to make the final level easier. And ironically the final level is how the full game could have been done without becoming tedious: kong-exclusive sections that differ from each other and a readily available tag barrel immediately. For a comparison: the Angry Aztec pyramid has five entrances, all of them lead to basically the same objective and means to complete it, so you're doing the same thing over and over just adding to frustration.
Every level allows you to glitch straight to the boss if you dont like collecting. So thats not an issue either
I don't know what toxic echo chambers you've been hanging out in, but I and a lot of people I know love Donkey Kong 64 and wish it would be made available on Switch Online.
The fact it's big, a little repetitive and backtrack heavy doesn't make it a bad game. I know a lot of other games that are far more repetitive that don't get any flak.
Don't let the words of a loud and obnoxious minority dictate the overall reception of a game.
I replayed it 4-5 months ago. It's still a good game, but I started the game planning on a completionist run. Halfway through, I made the decision to not even try to 100% it. I just don't have the time, especially with minigames like Beaver Bother where there doesn't even seem to be a good way to beat it, much less in the miniscule amount of time you have to do it in the later levels. DK64 is a fun game that was just way too ambitious and wasn't executed well
The purpose of this video wasn’t to say definitively that DK64 is a bad game, it was more too see if the criticisms against it held any weight. This is one of my favorite games from my childhood, I personally love it, I was looking at the reasons other people hate it and while I think a lot of there criticisms are legitimate it still doesn’t make it a bad game. Thanks for being civil even though you disagree with the video.
I think why this occured is because rare tried to make it last. I kid you not, the part of a game I loathe the most is finally finding everything and then never having a reason to go back to play a game I love. When you're a kid, you don't want to leave those magical worlds that capture you and never want to stop exploring and discovering all of its secrets. So Rare tried to keep the fun going, they just did it in a way that hasn't aged well. I definitely give them props for trying, but hey
At least you got your moneys worth
Imagine a world where Rare continued to made ground breaking 3D platformers through the 2000s and 2010s. The history we got instead was a dark timeline.
@@cattysplat One can dream.
This game was SO far ahead of it's time. Man what i wouldn't give for a remake 😩
Nah, I still love this game to death. I agree with all the three points of criticism, especially the minigame one, but that doesn't stop me from putting this in one of my top 5 games of all time. I love the atmosphere, level design, and music so much that it makes most of the problems obsolete in my opinion. Plus, I really like some of the unique minigames, like each mine cart ride being distinctly different and the layouts and gimmicks of some bonus barrel games changing slightly in different iterations to throw you for a loop. The banana collectibles aren't too bad either when you consider how much of them are in bunches of 5 or balloons of 10, making that 3500 number significantly bigger than it actually is.
But I won't defend Beaver Bother or the Sliding Beetle races for even a second. Those are just pure torture.
man you speak from my heart...
Honestly I wish there were more mine cart rides in the game because they were a lot of fun!
Racing the dung beetle was annoying but it made my day when I punched the beetle back with lanky Kong didn’t know I could do this it gave me relief from the frustration.
Agreed....to everything you just said LOL
@@ducksoup80 Wait. Wait. Wait. You can PUNCH that mitherfucker BACK?! How do I do this, I must have vengeance!
@@izzyj.1079 it was a long time ago At the starting line I long jumped with lanky and missed the speed barrel tapping B or whatever button it was to punch I punch the beetle back he let out a cry and I burst out laughing didn’t know I could do this I said that felt good because he will take three coins from me if I bump into him!
The fact that this game had so many collectibles is why I loved it so much. I felt like I always had something to do. Never heard of anyone hating on this game
It's just a troll video, I guess. Mario 64 had plenty and people still speed run the crap out of getting all the stars.
Nobody hated the game when it came out, people just think it's not worth going back to.
@@sws212 yeah, and basically nobody runs 100% DK64 runs because it's a chore to play every level so many times. Mario 64 100% is still a chore, but it's less tedious.
@@LibertyMonk I beat it 100%…
How is having a shitton of content a bad thing?
This, to me, is the 2nd most memorable N64 game from my childhood. Super Mario 64 is the clear cut 1st, but I fondly recall that yellow cartridge like I remember the orange Rugrats in Paris tape. Idk. When everyone sings praise, the haters talk louder. I guess that’s why they’re heard the most
I’m 32 and this is still my favorite game of all time. I play through every couple of years. 😁🙌
My girlfriend, now my wife, bought this for me in High School. I loved and am fairly sure I 100% it. I had no idea people hated it.
Question is, would you like it now though? Try playing it again, and you may change your mind.
@@fireorb2 Probably not, it is just that people don't like collection platformers anymore in the same way people don't like RPGs anymore. Before there was a common understanding that when it comes to a collection platformer that bigger IS better, in the same way the RPG genre understood that being closer to DnD was better. Nowadays both genres are radically different, with collection platformers no longer caring for larger games with more content, instead focusing on mechanics and freedom of movement. RPGs no longer want to be remotely close to DnD, infinite leveling is the norm meaning that concepts such as "classes" have been abandoned instead focusing on (to be frank) less like DnD, unlike collection platformers however these older style RPGs are still around and popular in spite of AAA devs ignoring them.
only 100% you go to 110% you got to get more
@@fireorb2 I think its odd that people claim to hate it even though they would do the same for ocarina of time intentionally.
Games exist outside of the shooter genre btw
@@fireorb2 Why ask that now? Mario 64 controls are janky, Ocarina of Time is kinda janky and fairly short compared to other RPGs. The 64 bit era in general was just devs learning how to deal with 3D environments and there are a lot of things that didn't age well as they adapted to new mechanics. They were good for their time and that's all that matters, that was their purpose. It's a bit silly to take a game that existed 20+ years ago and ask if its a great games now, fact is games that laid the foundation aren't as good as the ones that sit on top but they were classics in their era.
As an adult, I don't like when games waste my time, but as a kid it just felt like an endless source of fun 😊
Ah that makes perfect sense. Right as kids we sat in front of a CRT tv endless hours staring at mario64 or DK64 ..
Now I get bored after hour playing 😂
As someone who caught 150 pokemon and had 12 level 100 pokemon, DK64 was easy.
@@Jose951Sanchez Did you know that you can use Lanky Kong's stretchy arms to ignore the B lockers and enter the portal to the next world???? Such an amazing exploit!!!!
I remember when this came out. My uncle got it for Christmas & we played it all winter break.
Good video☺️ I liked that you made the DKC music in the background🥲💜
Forest Interlude always gives me goosebumps🫶
The number of collectibles you listed for DK64 was inflated.
For one you can't actually physically collect the banana medals, you get them automatically for collecting 75 color bannanas per Kong per level.
Also you rarely find individual color bananas, most of them come in a single five banana collectable or a single 10 banana balloon.
If you just count each collectable instead of bananas in the inventory the numbers are much more in line with contemporary collectathons.
Not only that, but did you notice he added the number of blueprints plus the number of gold bananas? You need those blueprints to get 201. He added them twice.
yeah I was thinking of that almost immediately.
though don't you get to collect physical banana medals in the final level? if I recall rightly
Exactly, comparing the colored bananas which are absolutely everywhere in the game to the Mario Odyssey moons is insane. There are huge parts of the game where every step you take you’re getting a banana smfh
Plus as far as I remember, like most games, you don’t need ALL collectables to finish the story of the game. It would be bothering mostly to those trying to 100%. Which I did a few years back and it wasn’t bothering me. The only problem I encountered were the beavers having a hard time falling in that hole but I did it eventually. And I had no idea the game was hated until I found this video. These are good points but I never heard of those being a problem or even thought about it.
@@dexterlittle5502 lil dex
This game is phenomenal and extremely nostalgic. I don’t care what people say. This video game made my entire childhood. This game will always have a special place in my heart.
I’m in the same boat, there’s a reason I use the DK Isle theme in like half my videos lol
Theres a comment like yours on every badly critiqued video game ever.
Saaaaaaaaaame
Wouldn’t say ‘phenomenal’ - go play it again to see what I mean.
@@ts7844 to each their own. i think it’s phenomenal. you don’t have to think it though.
I don't have a problem with a lot of collectibles in a game, but when you walk down a hallway and see things that will take at least 3 characters to collect, that definitely causes an eye-roll.
I loved it. Only now am I reading that it's hated. As a kid I couldn't tell how it was different to Mario 64 or Banjo Kazooie, and from memory I still can't.
This game is really fun if you just play it, its the 100% completion that makes it kind of a chore. But as a kid we didnt care. The more time we could spend in this world with these kongs, the better it was.
I largely agree with all of this analysis, but a small thing to consider: the bananas in DK64 often came in bunches of 5, I believe, which I would argue is just 1 single collectible each. It might add 5 to your counter, but you only have to locate and walk over them once. That might bring the number down just a little bit.
To add to your point, there are several banana balloons in the game that award 10 bananas for popping them
also for the mario 64 count, don't red coins and blue coins count for more than just 1 coin
@@justanobody0 yes. red coins are 2 coins each and blue are 5
To add to this he counts all bananas for 100% but all you need is 75 for each kong in each world going down to 2625
@@justanobody0 I think he distinguished between red coins for mario and under counted the regular coins so this will slightly mitigate the blue coin issue.
I've never been the type of person to worry about 100% completion.
It's just for bragging rights. Nothing more, nothing less.
For this game it actually goes to 101%
You should have counted the number of pickups, not just thedisplayed numbers. In BT all notes count for 5 or 25, and in DK64 some bananas are bundled too (or in balloons). Banjo-Kazooie did have individual note pickups. Also the red coins in SM64 would count for the 100-coin stars too, and you would usually go for both on the same run.
If you don't account for that, Spyro 1 with its 14000 jewels would be far wore than any of those. But jewels are usually worth more than 1 and the treasuers are often grouped together, so it actually doesn't take long at all to 120%.
When my grandmother got this game for us. My little brother got to playing it and I never played videogames after. He took over. (he is autistic) and it was the one thing that fascinated him. Now I'm back to playing games I missed out on lol. I was a good brother for sacrificing my time to play so he could. It was all that he wanted to do....now he hates me.
"Perfection is not when you have nothing left to add, but nothing left to take away." Sometimes less is more. It's better to have a short game than a boring game.
I do wonder if I played DK64 today how much I'd enjoy it. As a kid, sometimes you don't have an option but to spend hundreds of hours playing the same game, because that's all you have. As an adult, I find I have too many games and not enough time, so I'm considerably less forgiving to games that waste it.
Dk 64 was fine and still is fine, the hate over backtracking is beyond overplayed, the levels arent that big.
I played it recently (about 20 years after i originally played it) and honesrly i enjoyed it just as much as i did back them, the game is full of character everywhere, the game is fun and doesnt look too bad, granted i still remember most of the secrets so didnt have the whole exitement of discovery but it was still very fun to play.
Only things that were kind of annoying were multi colored banana trails and stuff like that (like really, having to keep switching through 3 kongs to just clear a small area for no reaso is a bit annoying), i didnt mind it on areas where you actually needed other kongs abilities to reach that (that made perfect sense and still does) but it did to that a bit often on some areas.
But outside of that the game is just as good as a i remember, it is not the best n64 platformer (both mario v64 and BK are better than it overall) but its a still a very good one.
Facts.
@@Andre-od5hf Part of that can be the nostalgia filter, though. The fact that we both played this game as kids means that revisiting it as an adult we already know where to go and what to do, so it goes considerably faster than if we were playing if for the first time. That said, I didn't play Banjo Kazooie or Tooie until I was an adult, and while DK 64 might take it up to 11, a lot of the same complaints were made about Banjo Tooie, and I don't remember noticing such issues when I played it.
Now, having recently played Yooka-Laylee for the first time, I do remember running into some of those issues. Am I just more aware of it now, was I just blinded by the nostalgia filter then, or is Yooka-Laylee not as good of a game so those issues are just more evident? I'm not sure.
Also, does everyone forget that DK 64 had multiplayer? TBH it might have been crap, but as kids we had a blast with it.
And because I keep thinking of stuff, what could have worked really well with switching between characters for the same area is if each character was different enough that the same area felt like an entirely different area. I've seen some really creative Mario Maker levels, for example, where you can play through the same section multiple times and it's a completely different experience because of some small change (e.g. switch state, P-switch, having a power up, etc.). In essence, it's actually two areas, you're just recycling the first area to make the second area, as if it were two levels layered on top of one another. Basically, it's just efficient use of the level design, reusing parts of the level in other parts. For DK 64, the problem was that you were essentially playing through the same areas with different characters and it was fundamentally the same experience.
Just as an example, imagine playing through a level with a character that can jump, and then playing through the same level with a character that can't jump (but maybe they can e.g. crawl through tight spaces, or climb vines, or something). Fundamentally, these are two different levels that are simply layered over one another.
I have the same issue, not enough time so it really annoys me when I need to do chores in a game. I just wanna get to it and play when I have time. Like I loved red dead 1 and now got the sequel and when I finally have time I just want to do missions, not feeding my avatar or horse or fixing guns
@@shiniquajones2812 if doing chores in games annoys you why are you here on a video about a collectathon? Know thyself and to thine own self be true, right? Get out, go somewhere you wanna be lol 😆
I think one of the reasons it was received so well but not now is simply due to how people think about playing a video game for long periods of time. Back then, 300 hours of length for a video game was 300 hours of time-filling fun for which you didn't need to get another video game. Now, 300 hours of length for a video game means 300 hours that you could spend with other video games or forms of media that get thrown at you nigh-omnidirectionally.
Edit: I think a fair way to compare the total number of collectables (accounting for positioning and the fact they appear in groups), total amount of backtracking for collectables would be to compare the lengths of the 100% speedruns; while this is not going to be exclusively due to padding, it is still likely a useful measure of it. Mario 64 is far shorter than the other games, Banjo-Tooie is not too much shorter than DK64 and Mario Odyssey sits as the longest by quite a lot.
i said something similar, as a kid i saw this as the king of the genre, i wish it had been even more full of stuff. back in the 90s most people didn't have a computer at home, if you were bored you either had to read a book or go play sports. no youtube, no tivo, if there wasn't anything on tv you didn't watch anything. a 300 hour game was a treasure, especially with no maps or guides. i really think it helped develop my spatial awareness, long-term memory, and grid searching abilities
No not at all. Other long games like Skyrim, and countless other RPGs still get praised and this game just suddenly didn't get hate. I remember it back then and you can still find that old G4 video where someone bashed on it for all it's collectibles.
Or working, hitting the gym etc.
@@TheoOJamaloO1 not when its 1997 and you are 7 years old
@@robertclouse4779 yeah but he was talking about as an adult. We aren't kids anymore.
This game didn't kill a genre by far. I never played it as a kid but as an adult. While I did enjoy the game overall, I got frustrated with it and gave up on it multiple times before finally making myself finish it. The 2 main problems were:
1. There was literally no direction as to what you were supposed to be doing. I found myself mindlessly wandering around trying to figure out what I needed to collect and where I needed to go, especially during the early stages of the game.
2. There was way too many collectable requirements to progress through the game. I had to spend hours just collecting items needed to unlock doors/access new areas. The collection part of the game was not fun at all.
Well dang now I wonder how I beated this game as a kid then in 2009
This game is NOT hated at all. This game is a masterpiece and they needed to make a sequel. Still holds the record for the most collectibles in a game.
many people hate it. It was pretty mediocre and has a million collectibles.
@@clamwok mediocre??? The games a legend and the collectibles are a record and fun to collect even if there's a lot. That's why I love this game. The devs actually tried to make a really good game and they did.
Don’t listen the haters. This game was a tricky and long game. It was fun tho. You didn’t play through it in one week. It was a long haul game. Even made me scared on various floors due to sound and low lighting.
@@runstarhomer2754 fun fact, you can use lanky’s stretchy arms to bypass to be lockers and gets in the next world.
@@clamwok so does zelda totk?
God I love this game, always will be my favorite game of all time. I never had a problem with the character switching, as I saw it as a different way to play the game. Whether I’d switch characters to do objectives as I see them, or (after fully unlocking the level) I’d run through the game as each kong, finishing everything they have one at a time, think chunky in angry aztec, imo one of the best moments of the game, as it’s a quick victory lap through a fun world
Same here. Its a Huge game.
Totally agree 👍🏼
I enjoyed the character switching. Gave me variety
I thought the game was okay it was great to see Donkey Kong back, but I think Rareware honestly put all their ideas into their other gems on the 64 Banjo-Kazooie Conker's Bad Fur Day Diddy Kong Racing Jet Force Gemini. I think they thought just the title alone would be enough for a huge sale which it was but I think it was lacking just a bit in my opinion
Nostalgia goggles
Whenever the zeitgeist turns against an older game like this, I always start looking for the TH-camr or streamer with a large following that shit on the game recently. More often than not, the criticism is coming from people younger than the game who never actually played it.
Yeah. I'm starting to see more and more people shitting on Kotor and Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines, which are both absolute classics but in many ways haven't aged in ways that people playing them for the first time today are necessarily immediately in love with.
Ahh this is a great piece of information, thank you!!
Egoraptor and Ocarina of Time. The guy played year many years after its initial release and complained that every mechanic was overly complicated. Translation: he was just terrible at the game.
@@whosaidthat84 Arin being bad at games is pretty much his entire personality
@@whosaidthat84 agreed. I still remember his critique of the moving spike traps not working in a ocarina. He said it worked in a top down perspective because you can always see them, but didn't work in 3d because of the times they're behind you when you're focusing on another puzzle. The issue with that criticism is the spike traps moved at a consistent pace and on a singular track, meaning if you had even the slightest sense of spatial awareness, you should at least have an idea of where the spike trap is and avoid being in its path. This is the definition of "skill issue" and why it can be hard to take his opinions on game design seriously
Honestly if all of collectables werent character locked it would probably make it far better overall
I think counting Mario Odyssey's outfits as individual collectibles is unfair, as you need over 35,000 coins to purchase them all.
I think what us fans love about the game is the music, level design, character design and boss fights. All these criticisms are very well known to fans, but they don't bother us because they don't outweigh the rest of the game. The game has a lot of minigames, probably too many collectibles, and definitely has a lot of backtracking, but 2 of those 3 things are seen as strengths of the game in general. A collectathon with more collectibles is generally a good thing. Backtracking is also a good thing because: 1) you get run through different areas more than once and experience them differently each time and 2) it makes the game significantly less linear. So those 2 criticisms are really just people that like very basic, linear games that are short enough to play in one sitting. DK64 isn't for everyone.
well said
For most of the backtracking there‘s nothing new to „experience the areas differently“ though you‘re just running forward through a previous area with a new character
As a poor kid having a game like this let me play it for a long time. I didn’t have a memory card so the fact that it saves the game within itself was awesome
I was looking for this comment, this kind of game was a gem for me who usually just had a few games an rarely got newer ones, like 1 per year maybe, I remember I use to do everything posible on every game, sometimes even creating my own ways to play them just to try to get something new from them, so games with LOTS of content like this were the best!
Same here - I saved up all my pocket money and had to think about which games to buy. I got like 10 guilders a week, sometimes 5 guilders a week worth of pocket money so in a best case scenario it took me about 12 to 14 weeks to be able to buy a n64 game which cost 120 to 140 guilders each...
I actually played through and completed all three save game files to 101% back then...took me a couple of hours less throughout each save as I got better at the game. The games that had a lot of collectables or unlockables were the best.
@@pauperproductions Rare also put so much love into their games, you'd love to replay them over and over. Can't say that about most games.
To be fair, almost every N64 game supported cartridge saving. The only games I can think of that didn't were PS1 ports like Gex: Enter the Gecko.
@@Psythik none of the Tony Hawk games had supported it. Neither did star fox. There’s was actually a good amount that didn’t have it
for the total collectables you forgot to count the banana coins required to buy upgrades, which would add 160 to the total number of collectables.
I’d argue using Banjo Kazooie instead of Tooie would have been a much better comparison personally. As it has a fraction of the collectibles as Tooie and still maintains it’s popularity because of the game being confident in that simplicity. I’ve seen lots of people say similar complaints about Tooie as they did for DK64.
I personally think that part of the reason platformers fell off so hard is because players started getting a little too overwhelmed at how much stuff the developers started throwing at us.
The reason Mario64 and Banjo Kazooie are fondly remembered more often than the other games here is because they were both confident in their simplicity.
Dk64 was and is my favorite game. The worlds were so perfect I would look for any excuse to backtrack.
This was one of my favorite games as a kid, I definitely remember this being more long, difficult and confusing than Banjo Kazooie/Tooie.
I liked the banjo games but they were way too cringe compared to Kong
Well done sir! Actual good video structure! Intro and reason for your video, Hypotheses 1. 2. and 3. Than you tested your hypotheses and did your conclusion. Your earned my sub with this vid. Pretty good case study.
DK64 has a special place in my heart.
I use to play this game for hours with my brothers and friends. As we keep playing we unlock more characters and battle areas, I never complains about any of it
In your list of collectables, you forgot to include banana coins, which you need to pay for Cranky's potions, Funky's guns and Candy's instruments among other things. I don't know how many banana coins there are in total - I think it's at least 500. That raises the grand total to >4300.
a lot of the banana's are found in pairs of 5 though so a lot of them are really only 1 collectable
@@hawks3109 that was my thought too. It looked like the number of banana items that you pick up is a lot closer to 1200, which really reduces the numbers. The backtracking still sounds terrible though. Also, it looked like the worst mini games were the ones that you play the most often
@@guri256 yeah this video actually inspired a playthrough for me haha I am 100%ing it and almost done. It can be frustrating for the last 10% or so, but a lot of the backtracking for collectibles is thankfully tied with solving different new puzzles that require different kongs. There's a ton of overlap with solving a new puzzle while backtracking
What's weird is that they included Mario galaxy's 40 outfits, you could argue that each outfit is a few thousand coins (and one outfit is 9999) so.... That beats DK i guess
And everything is easy as hell to get. So why are people bitching so much about it? God damn people are such Whiny ass bitches. You don’t have to get every single collectable. You can skip 101 golden bananas including every single golden banana in the last level, the castle one. And still beat the game. People just can’t keep their panties on or must have something crawling up their asse. Holly shit, bitch n moan marathon for real.
Great video, but like many, I still love the game. As a kid I didn't have much else to do, so backtracking and collecting everything was not an issue.
Thank you! I’m in the same boat, with only having access to 1 or 2 new videos games a year, this game was a godsend with how much content it had lol
That's something a lot of people never consider. A kid might react differently to this game than an adult. I was already a teenager when this game came out, but the amount of padding didn't really register with me until about a year and a half later when I played Conker's Bad Fur Day and noticed how incredibly streamlined and focused that game was.
@@pressaTD The game wasn't too bad in my opinion, but there are two factors that made the game incredibly frustrating and difficult, and that was having to collect the Rareware and Nintendo Coin to obtain the last key to free K. Lumsy. Man.... I lost on that arcade DK game so many times and blew through so many banana coins that its not even funny.
Part of the problem with this game is people having shorter attention spans now than when it came out.
Alright, but you cannot call out the minecart rides for being unoriginal, because each instance is very different from the others, giving 3 unique minigames with similar mechanics, just as the melon-shooting minigames are really similar yet technically different (different name, hardly different gameplay)
I loved it. Only now am I reading that it's hated. As a kid I couldn't tell how it was different to Mario 64 or Banjo Kazooie, and from memory I still can't.
It was really neat to see the common criticisms quantified like this. I didn't think there were THAT many minigames used in total, but wow. Never did manage to complete this game in its entirety; got real close, but some of the minigames (cough, Beaver Bother, cough) were just way too difficult to handle.
This is what we do here at Press A, quantity things so you don’t have to!
@@pressaTD It's like Rare knew this was going to their last DK console game, so they went bananas on the collectables. 😂
The fly swatting mini game drove me mad! The way the fly would mockingly laugh when you miss.
@@MrOldskoolgamez When there's the beetle races🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬.
Yeah I almost got all the bananas, got both the rare coins too, but fucking beaver bother!