We are glad to see all of the traction this video is getting! I see some references to the flat tappet cam failure that I referenced. Here is a link to the break in procedure I use for flat tappet cams th-cam.com/video/MYc3TnDLUHs/w-d-xo.html we also have a video of the install. Have a good one!
Man I just went through cams because of lifters too but these were Sealed Power hydraulic flat tappet lifters a lifter wore through and I am not the only one others had the same issue and then I was told to use Comp Cams lifters because they are made by Delphi but now that I see your video I don't know what to do
@@bigboreracing356 no need to get upset. In the video it says Comp *replaced* the cam. It didn't say they upgraded (billet) or sent a different cam. Not sure what you are trying to prove with baseless accusations... A follow up video about the cam is unnecessary as we never had an issue with the cam. The failure was almost certainly link bar related. Any questions that aren't answered in the video have been addressed in the comments. Have a good day.
@@eriv4735 issues are rare. But I toasted a camshaft (X303 camshaft) because the rollers on my lifters blew up. Then I bought the higher quality comp cam lifter and they've worked fine. But the normal comp cam lifters I wouldn't recommend just for precautionary reasons. Nobody wants to be that 1 in a thousand case of bad lifters. I'm just sayin.
@@boosted0079 Adam's rite, Bobby sorry to tell you tie bars don't break unless they hit something. You know they make a longer lifter so this don't happen. Don't bash comp cams for a human error.
@@boosted0079 not sure what voting for trump has to do with it but he could have stuck to tappets preventing this. This is human error. An besides trumps a badass
@@boosted0079 I bet he did vote for Trump. Because we want that thing called Freedom! By the way You're a moron trying to insult a Trump supporter on this type of video, go insult a Trump supporter on a tesla video maybe you'll get some Bozo Joe supporters to agree with you.
I've ran lunati, comp, erson, crane, howards.... the ONLY failure I've had was my own damn fault. Broke a solid cam in with too much spring pressure, didn't use ZDDP, and didn't use EDM solid lifters. Even then... we had two years in that cam before it wiped. Built circle track engines turning 7,000rpm for 5 summer every Saturday that have lived just fine if everything is installed and used to spec. That was my only cam failure and I was young and dumb and "knew better" thinking it'll be fine.... now I break all solid flat cams in with the inner springs removed, heavy zddp oils, and low ratio rockers.
@@milojanis4901 where the hell did you pull that lie out of??? comp gets there cam cores from the same supplier as other cam manufacturers. if comp is "out of proper cams" the everyone is out of cams.
All you guys talking about zinc additive and zddp dont understand what it is for. The zinc is needed in an engine with flat tappet lifters in either solid or hydraulic form. It is not needed for a roller cam. Break in oil is still recommended for a new engine but it is not for the roller cam.
Actually bud. Znic/zddp. Is a friction modifier and creates a film to protect metal on metal contact in a high friction load. So in a high spring load soild roller applications it has a benefit. Zinc in any high rpm application has its benefits.
@@codyblack5490 I've heard that ZDDP used in a roller lifter application will cause the surface to be too slippery and the roller will not turn on its axle. Ultimately this will cause a flat spot on the lifter roller which will cause a failure.
@@charlestappa59 maybe in a hydraulic roller application. But in applications that has high spring pressure i cant see that. Im not saying your wrong. And all aspects of a build need to be considered. Zinc is a friction modifier.
Honest True Story, Had a 468 Big Block Chevy build for a street strip car, bought a Hyd Roller Comp Cam and tie-bar lifters from Comp. Installed and Degreed the cam per specs, had the high zinc break in oil and followed proper break in procedures and everything seemed perfect.....ran the engine long enough to have a proper break in and as normal drained oil and removed filter for fresh 10w30 hot rod oil with the zinc still in the oil. Upon inspection of the drained oil noticed a lot of metal flakes almost like silver metal flake paint but in oil, Cut and closely inspected Oil Filter and it was full of flakes ! and not Tony the tiger frosted kind either....anyway long story short pulled engine back out and started to pull it apart and taking off the intake was as far as I needed to see the loves of the Cam were literally crumbling under the hydraulic roller lifters....I had never seen a Cam do anything even close to this and after tons of time with Comp on the phone....it turned out to be something in the hardening of the Cam something went badly wrong....and Comp replaced everything that even remotely was damaged by this .....they didn't like it and tried questioning my assembly or experience level but they quickly dropped that. All in all it was around 8 months before this was settled and done....and I have and will NEVER purchase another Comp Cam or products. Good thing this was my personal hot rod and not a customer's.
I don't think it's a problem with the lifters this is usually improper lash that causes this as far as the flat tappet goes most likely improper break in and or the wrong oil and or to much spring pressure or a combination of these been using comp cams for 30 years zero problems 99% of the time it is mistakes by the installer that causes these problems
Again, no break in required for roller cams, and the exact springs called for by comp were used and were checked by my machinist prior to installation. As far as lash goes, I mention in the video the values gathered.
@@The_Octane_Addicts quit whining. take it like a man. do it right next time and don't blame comp cams for your (or your builders) mistakes. if comp paid for every wanna be builders/knuckleheads mistakes we'd have to pay more to cover your self inflicted mistakes. it's a learning process, if you don't want the mistakes that come with learning then hire an experienced, reputable builder, or learn yourself. what this video really did was to give comp cams some good free advertising. so thank you for that.
Cast roller cams are very prone to flaking iron off of the lobes. Comp actually calls these cams austempered steel. It's is actually just a heat treated cast iron cam. You can see the casting's familiar surface everywhere on the cam except the journals and lobes.
When you play the game, sometimes you loose. I've seen failures from all manufactures, bottom line is when you build an engine beyond it's original design intentions, then push it beyond it intended limits, well......sometimes shit breaks.
If you build performance engines and run them hard expect to break things. There are so many brand name products selling parts made in China you can't be sure anymore. Valves, valve springs and roller lifters.ect
Don't think a block is clean because it was hot tanked.the block must be cleaned again with solvent a bore brushes. I use a pressure washer and scrub it after I get it back from the shop. I usually spend hours deburring the block and removing any slag. Then clean it again. I have bought crankshafts that had grinder dust in them. Everything must be operating room clean.
I've built well over 100 performance engines both professionally and as a hobby over the last 30 years. Ive used Comp Cams for at least 95% of my builds and not once have I had a Comp Cams product of any kind fail . Not a single thing. Their cams and lifters are great quality . The fact that you had a solid roller cam shaft fail makes it obviously clear that the failure was due to set up specs or lubricant failure. There is No required break in on a solid roller cam and lifters. If it were a Problem with the Parts they would have failed almost immediately.
I have used Comp cams 30 years ago, but in the last 10 years their quality control has really dropped. Especially on their flat tappet Cam and lifter packages.
In a flat Tappet situation, I think these “fast ramp” cam lobes are trouble. Subtract duration @.050 from the advertised. Smaller number equals fast lobe. This application is roller lifter so it’s different. Looks like the tie bar broke and the lifter rotated 90 degrees.
I recently built a 496 bbc stroker with a comp cam, and the cam on the first time we tried to install it would not fit smoothly, in fact to turn the cam inside the block you had to use two bolts and a 3 foot pry bar. We then took out the cam and had the bearings checked (which might be your problem) the clearances were all different, so we had to custom order some bearings. After that the motor was then rebuilt and assembled and ran. The motor then had another issue that may also be your problem. The blocks main journals and the cam shaft clearances inside the block needed to be adjusted and machined the right way at the right length so on. The motor had a noticeable vibration and wasn’t right and produced what you were seeing. After the machining process it was fixed. It wasn’t one alone part in fact it was multiple. If I were you I would do a little more digging on the block and make sure if you still haven’t fixed it to have the clearances checked. As the cam shaft could have had excess pressure under load and snapped the lobe off the cam.
Be sure to check your oil pump! All that metal shrapnel went through the pump, to get to the filter. Those particles look more than big enough to score the oil pump. If the oil pressure seems low at idle, but OK at running speed, it would likely be the pump, rather than the bearings.
you are correct, i did think to do that and it was thrashed. Replaced it when the motor was rebuilt. A small purchase compared to the rest but a critical component not to forget!
i have seen this happen with valve float, a lot of guys dont want to run the heavy valve springs required to keep all the valve train under control. i have used comp cams for years and never had a problem.
Me too, been running Comp Cams in every engine i built, except my first one at 16, there i used a Lunati. NEVER had any issues with any Comp Products. Heard a few problems with Crane stuff, But Never Comp Cams.
A late model Windsor block uses a longer lifter bore than the early blocks. So you can't just drop in a stock roller cam in an early block with stock lifters. So to, if you want to run a performance roller cam in an early block, the cam must be offset ground so that the lifter fits in the bore at the right height and position. It appears this was the problem. The maker of this video needs to tell people what cam he used and if it was offset ground or not.
they make shorter roller lifters for converting the early blocks. i’ve heard you can use smaller base circle cams for the earlier blocks? my knowledge isn’t concrete, I have an 88 351 block i’ll eventually convert to roller. I guess i’ll have to figure this out
I have used comp cams valve-train equipment for years without ANY problems. Mainly big block Chevy, and always flat tappet solid custom ground from their list of lobe families. Either X-treme energy, Magnum and Hi-tech solid designs. And the Pro-Plasma Nitriding on the flat tappets is even more bullet proof. Comp also offers different cores to the end user, I always specify cams to be ground on Pro55 cores for solid designs without nitriding. At the end of the day, Comp Cams are a great cam company with a reliable reputation. Cheers !
We've used Comp cams in our 1000 HP Super comp BBC 468 for years with no problems. It has everything to do with break in and the oils used. After running the engine on the dyno (Just shy of a 1000HP and about 900 pounds of torque) we broke it in on the track with a lower viscosity oil such as Pennzoil 10/40 with Comp cams break in additive that has tons of zinc in it but after two half track passes my son then ran it out the door at 7.62 @ 183. It still had more in it. Then we change to what we always run. Torco full synthetic 20/50. It holds 15 quarts. Lasts all season which is 200 passes minimum. I have to agree with some other comments. The cam lobe failure had everything to do with how the engine was built and mostly how it was broken in. Comp gave in because bad PR costs lots more than another cam.
That's called "learn how to adjust valve lash correctly"... This is what happens when you "hodge podge" parts together, ALWAYS buy a balanced rotating assembly.. I've had nothing but good results from Comp Cams, but it looks like other parts failed in your car, not the camshaft.
Even without the link barbin place, the lifter can't easily rotate 90 degrees unless it has lost contact with the camshaft. This happens when you float the valves.
That makes no sense at all. If that's the case, where's the logic in even having a link bar in the first place? Surely isn't used just as a redundancy lol. Come on man smh lol. Those cams are rotating at thousands of rpms. You really think time lifter should just stay on track with all the movement and oil pressure? Reading all these "professionals" with their opinions and speculating is almost funny.
@@boosted0079 If you think that breaking a tie bar off, and spinning a roller lifter sideways, without a series of rookie mistakes happening beforehand, you're mistaken. Bad component choices, poor assembly and whiskey foot are precisely the cause of this kind of failure.
Been running comp cams Lifters, rockers and cam shafts for years and have had one lifter failure witch was caused by allowing someone else use my car well I was on the road and they failed to check the oil on it. Even the best companies out there can have a defective part. This is a pay to play game we are in. Looks like you ran that motor a hot min after it broke. The second i hear a slight change I pull the Valve covers and check lash. The one time I did loose a lifter I shut it down and had my buddy bring my trailer so I would not torch the motor.you messed up when you knew there was a problem and kept driving. Just My.02.
I agree that it should have been run less, but when you are on the highway you can only do so much, it limped a mile to a safe stop and was only run for a couple of total minutes for trouble shooting both at my place and at the engine shop, either way the motor would have needed to come apart with a failure of this kind :/
“Kept driving” Yeah, normal people are willing to hurt the engine and pull off the freeway to a safe spot. Insane people risk lives over engines and stop on the freeway.
There are only like 3 companies that MAKE lifters. Comp Cams gets them from Delphi, so does AC Delco. It could have been product failure, but we needed to see if you still had correct valve lash as a contributing factor.
My good sir, you can't blame comp cams, a well renowned parts distributor on a mistake on your behalf. You wouldn't have wiped a lobe if your valve lash was set correctly and measured, and you broke it in with 20min. @ 2000rpm. There are instructions on cam break in, whether its hydraulic tappet, flat tappet, or roller tappets. Every cam includes that little instruction sheet.
I bought 8 comp cams 1.6 - 1 roller rockers, because the 1.65 - 1 crower rockers would have possibly caused the intake valves to hit the pistons; the clearance was not quite enough when i did the play-dough test. So the 1.6 gave enough clearance. After maybe 20 or 30 thousand miles, i pulled the valve covers to adjust the valves and i found the comp rockers were worn badly. The crower rockers were still perfect. That was when i decided comp cams made garbage. I wouldn’t trust anything comp makes after that.
It just doesn't look like a very strong / robust design. I know Ford made the 5.0L with a roller cam, I don't know about the 5.8L. Yes the older blocks were heavier, that had more to do with core shift. Improvements were made in the cores and core shift, and so the blocks didn't need to be as heavy to compensate for what might end up thin. I worked for Ford Motor Co in the Cleveland Casting Plant, the 351 had been out of production, but we were still producing the 302 / 5.0L for the Explorer.
Can confirm that the exact motor break in oil required by my builder was used (driven BR40), and the correct oil was used for daily use (Driven 20w50). As far as the build quality, it was covered in the video.
@@The_Octane_Addicts quit whining and take your lumps. you and your builder screwed up. you for hiring them, them for not knowing procedures, and now you for whining so much. and them for not taking care of you without blaming others. your own statements tell that you didn't follow procedures. grow up, get a pair of gonads. gotta pay to play. you tried cheaping out and now it's costing you more. that's how it works. learn to build or pay a real builder. sissies like you annoy us.
i’m still “new” to this engine building stuff but i’ve had nothing but good results with my lunati too! hydraulic flat tappet in a small block chevy, just rebuilt it and the can still looks very good with very minimal wear and a good wear profile! always add zinc to flat tappet oil
Looking at xe264hr from comp for my 98 vortec roller block so using stock style lifters luckily 😎 does lunati make a cam with the same specs? Needs to be the step nose oe style
@@jjmccloud check lunatis website, www.lunatipower.com/cams/lp-chevrolet-gm/chevrolet-small-block-lt1-and-lt4-1987-up/hydraulic-roller.html they have lots of cams for several different applications, youll wanna look at their 1987and up small block cams
Ran Lunati myself with zero issues. Can't say the same for Comp. Also Lunati is only 90 minutes from me so I usually stop by their HQ and get all my parts from their friendly staff.
He's going to have rod bearing trouble next. A stock crank 351W absolutely requires .003-.0035 on the rod bearings. I can tell by the premature wear on the rod bearing that it WAS NOT metal from the cam. It's from not enough clearance and 6000+ rpm shifts. He's lucky the cam failed first.
I agree with the one comment I've been building engines for years stock and a few racing engines put a lot of engines together and machine them but this is definitely installer error check out the rest of the engine and find out what else has not been installed right I've learned many things from working with great engine builders and reading a few good books
bought a turn key dragster with the 468 engine and have 3 lifters BROKE ? never even got to race it yet. had no wAY of knowing if the engine was ok until i trailered it home to my shop. Never got to race it yet. Found 3 broken lifters from Comp cam part # 883-16. lifter is stamped comp cam 16-05 but they look pretty darn new, not much wear at all.. not happy. Ruined the cam of course. Never even got it up in RPM, knew it did not sound right. NOT HAPPY.
have no idea what his problem is. mine is not any kind of install problem. have been told they are now made in china and re boxed here in the USA. not sure who you are talking with. @@Myvintageiron7512
@@stevemartens7873 LOL comp cam's and lifters are made in Memphis Tenn. where did you get the China nonsense from?? how did you break in the cam? What was your Spring Pressure, and what kind of oil did you use? if you cannot answer these questions correctly than it is definitely and installation problem I own an Automotive Machine shop we build 8 to 10 engines a month all with comp cams products we have had zero problems been doing it with comp products for 30 years trust if there was a problem with their cams we would have found it by now
You used a retro fit offset ground cam. The lifter's were not running at the right depth/ position in the bores causing the problem. The 69 block maybe stronger? I always use the later block that was a roller from factory. Never have those alignment worries.
It's an oiling issue that the lifters have at idle. Hence why solid rollers are not recommended for street. If you run solid in the street get lifters that have bushings and not needle bearings.
For the flat cam discussions below.... Hint for using zddp on flat tappets. 1) spend $40 and get the cam nitrited. 2) mix the zddp into each quart of oil very well BEFORE pouring the oil into the engine. Think about this.... The first 10 seconds are the most critical. How long will it take to mix the zddp into six quarts of oil otherwise??? A minute at 2500???
@@The_Octane_Addicts They don't get it. Most of them have never held a cam in their little hands and wouldn't know the difference between the two. You can expect a lot of stupid replies to your video from these guys with no knowledge. I had to quit reading the comments because there was so many idiot comments. It's very apparent that your problem is one created by Comp. I never liked their roller lifters, I don't like the design of the guide bar. It looks a little flimsy and I don't like the square retention hole. I hope you got it sorted out and thanks for the video.
I am having my engine rebuilt and upgraded and they ONLY use Comp Cams on the upgrade and they warranty parts and labor. I can't get that from anyone else. Five year 100k miles and they are making a 450 hp truck motor. 522/529 lift, 212/218 duration, 114 center 1200-6000 powerband. K&N Cold Air Intake, X-Pipe, 3 inch Borla Catback. It should have tons of lowend!
Been thinking about this failure. I would almost bet money debris of some sort blocked the oil passage to that lifter. A piece of a thread, a chunk of loose casting sand, a piece of silicone.... the reason I say* that is because if it were a defective part it would have gone to hell immediately. If it were a case hardening issue more than one lobe would be affected. My guess is the trunion needle was starved for oil, failed, turned the lifter sideways breaking the tie bar when the lifter bottomed out in the bore. I'd be willing to bet if you inspected the bottom of the tie bar there was wear at the bottom showing what happened first. The marks in the block would show at what angle.
I feel for you on this, but I have to say it’s pretty shitty of you to make this video. I could see if Comp fought you on this and refused to work with you on it, but that’s not the case because they sent you all new components. I’m tired of everyone these days feeling they need to review everything. Your lifter didn’t break driving down the highway, it failed completely yes but the damage was done when you got after it before driving down the highway. Guaranteed it was caused by valve float, 145# of seat pressure is nowhere near enough on a dual spring with a solid roller, with a beehive yes, dual no. I’ll guarantee you have valve train harmonic issues, I’d go back to the drawing board on your spring package. And also, if you didn’t have your valve guides clearanced properly on those Edelbrock heads then that’s your other issue, you’re sticking valves, valve to guide clearance is waaaayyyy too tight on Edelbrocks out of the box, just my .2 cents.
@@boosted0079 He still hasn't proven the link bar and lifters were installed correctly, or why the link bar failed. Keep passing the buck it will end up back in his pocket!!
You guys need to check your lifters if you're using flat tappet stuff..UTG found mismachined bottoms..they were ground flat instead of concave. These were new out of the box
when ford went roller lifter, they changed the block slightly for taller lifter guides because of the extra height. I wonder if this was a flat tappet block and he threw in roller lifters and something bad happened. why did the bearings get ruined?
don't know what brand oil filter that was used. looks like it did a good job of trapping the metal. unless the filter bypass is stuck open you have other oiling issues. is the filter screwed on the block or is it remote mounted? if the filter traps the metal then it cannot get into the block without going past a bypass.
Shit breaks, sorry you had to go through this. Honestly I have read a lot about compcams recently saying that they were not heat treated for a while, but quality has improved. But their lifters seem to be cheap and have a lot of issues.
Wasn't the cam. Crappy lifters. The cams themselves are ok, but usually a good idea to stay away from the lifters since they are 3rd party and not made by Comp. The only retrofit roller ones I've found that are somewhat decent for long term use are ones by Morel (Sold as Howards Race Series). They cost about 700-800 dollars for the SBC since they're popular. Not without issues, but at least they have yet to grenade like that, and they seem to have sorted out most of the issues with getting the rollers to last by ditching the chrome coating they used to use.
I had the same lifter tie bar failure in my 408 Ford Cleveland, I was lucky I heard it fail and shut it off straight away but the cam and 2 lifters & lifter bores were still screwed.
I have used comp cams roller lifters for many years without a failure. Care must be taken while assembly. Not inferring that it wasn’t. Good luck with your build.
I've talked to several engine builders over the last month a out cams and wiped out lobes/lifters. Comp is the number one brand mentioned by those shops that folks have an issue with. Lunati is second.
Did you check to see if your Block is a "Bad Walker" .Sometimes as a block goes down the machining line at the factory when it hits the tappet boring station a bur or "something" between a datum point and a fixture can make the tappet bores to be slightly out of square with the Cam bore. You can check a block by spinning the cam in the block before any assembly about 100 revolutions in both directions .If the cam wants to screw itself into or out of the block you should not use this block for roller cams .It will likely be fine for flat tappets. Comp cams is reputable and there are a lot of variables.
definitely agree there are a lot of variables, but i went through all of the ones myself and the builder could think of and came to the conclusion that the lifter was at fault, which comp agreed to since they sent me new parts
This been happening with few builds at our machine shop with tappet cams like wasnt hardened . Make wondering something wasnt put together right or if zink additive wasnt used. In first startup making cam fail
They've started making roller lifters with bushings in them now instead of needle bearings so That way you don't contaminate your engine with a needle bearings if one of them were to fail. It's been around for a long time but the Cam and left her companies are really starting to push them now because needle bearings in your oil pan is such a typical problem with lifter failure
Really, that they replaced the parts is them standing by their warranty, and it sucks that there were related damages and additional costs, but solid roller cams and lifters aren’t exactly “oem level durability tested”. The lifter bore can be bushed and the block saved. The rest of the engine appears to be reasonably usable. The expense of fixing this failure kind of goes with the territory. At least your standard bore block that you have .030” over Wisecos for didn’t go to the machine shop for hot tank and magnaflux and come back to you .060” over. This doesn’t merit running anyone away from Comp, but it is a good share where there are things to be learned.
This is the major reason I shy far away from solid roller cam and lifters setups, I know many people that use them, but haven't had problems, but that cam hits on that pushrod so damn hard with the lash needed and I dont like checking my lash that often.
@port nut I was using flat tappet, on stock rocker nuts. My fault, but every two races I checked, not much movement, but still checked. Heard horror stories from old guys. Not that it means much anymore.
It was not uncommon for engine producers to cant the lifter bores. I've seen them out by 7 degrees. They did this to promote lifter spin. Lots of blocks these days already come from the factory machined straight. If you put a roller cam in an old motor you need to at least check the bores relation to the cam. If you know exactly what you are doing... there are lifters with bent link bars. These will keep the rollers on an angle. So if you know the actual way your bores are canted and can figure out which canted link bars to use, you can counter this. Also reduces friction on your valve train.
Most people on here think it's assembly error and that Comp Cams is fine but then you read comments of people that have had problems and after you read enough then you get more convinced of a possible parts failure due to metallurgy or assembly. Kinda tells me that some people are having issues with defective parts. Some have accepted it and some are yet to be convinced. Keep buying those cheap ass lifters and keep suffering parts failures.
After building engines professionally for over 30 years. Everything from stock builds to 800 hp dirt track cars. Comp cams has never been a problem. I have had 3 people who did their own deal....ended up with flat cams....due to break in failure. What baffles me is.....if you had this engine done by a machine shop.....why go back and recheck all their work? Obviously you didn't feel confident in their work. Another thing I question is your valve lash. Was it checked hot or cold. Despite what the recommendations are.....aluminum heads have a different lash setting than a cast head does. If you run an aluminum block and aluminum heads.....even a different deal. But that's another conversation. People like this are engine builders worst nightmare.
The reason you always check everything regardless of the shop is because humans do machine work and are not perfect. everyone in every profession can have a bad day at anytime. Its cheaper to catch a problem on assembly than it is after everything is chewed up.
I have had a few problems with comp. All on number 7 on my chevy. Bent push rod, lifter mushroomed out and then the cam rounded out. First i had replaced the push rod. Second i replaced the came and all of the lifters then i replaced the cam and all the lifters again with a different grind. The first time i had replaced the cam and lifters i went ahead and gotten sportman 2's with harland sharp rollers. I ended up parking the damn thing and got a new vehicle. Its been sitting for about 10 yrs now. I kept buying comp because everyone swears by them. I had a old school exhaust guy guess my damn cam and grind when he installed my exhaust. I asked him how he knew and he grinned and said because the number 7 valve was slapping.
Soak the lifters in oil pump them up with a push rod in a drill press submerged in a can of oil. Follow break in procedure. The retrofit roller set ups from comp are ok but heavy springs and heavy rockers may be too much esp 1.6 ratios Truth is many years ago they did a big dyno run and the power difference was not as much as one would expect compared to flat tappet
I have been caught out with Comp Cams valve springs had failure with them and and dropped a valve so had to rebuild motor and yes got rid of Comp Cams roller lifters I won’t touch Comp Cams no more
Hard telling! You can always find a weak part now and then as I seen it in a oval track motor back in 1980 when those rollers were first used, we has a lifter bar break and turn a lifter sideways and just so happen we got protested that night and tore down when we seen the lifter, when I pulled it out the roller was half size! So I thanked who ever protested the engine for saving it! But it put metallic through the whole engine.
I had the same issue with a comp high energy cam and lifter set a few years ago on an FE build. I called comp, they said they had a bad batch of lifters squeak past QC. They offered to make it right. I bought another set of the same thing from them at a discount, never had a problem since. Things happen.
Dude, Ford did not use any Nichole in any engine testing proves that and the 351 Windsor from 1969 to 1974 are the same casing proses but from 1975 they where changed to a thinner casting. The problem with your engine is you chose cheap roller lifters, Comp makes good lifters but you chose to go budget and that is the results of it.
The first thing looking at the pictures, if that's a solid roller, It looks like it's cast instead of billet. Second, I couldn't tell, but the roller lifters looked cast also. Third the roller lifters with those cheesey rectangle buttons to hold the link bar, no Bueno! Most of the good ones have a round button , so there is not an edge for the link bar to catch on. Had comp failures as with other brands (flat cams) , but I will say that howards and bullet are the only two that I know of that give you a billet full cnc cam. Most of the rest is cast and ground on a berco grinder. The only thing on your end is to make sure it is getting oil and that lifter bore has the proper clearance.
When I found out that comp cams nolonger makes there products in the U.S. I stopped buying their products. No quality control = inferior products. No warranty on any products they make or sell. And shit like this happens more often these days. Comp cams said it's counterfeit parts when I had a similar problem a few years ago. I have had better experience with Crane cams and their products are far more superior
I don't know anything about Ford engines, but some Chevy small blocks have a provision for a spider and dog bones that hold the roller lifters in place. Kind of asking a lot if all you have is a link bar holding the lifters straight. Which is why I would never build a non-factory roller Chevy engine (i know yours is Ford) by putting in a roller retro-fit kit. Factory roller Chevy's also have a machined boss for a cam retainer which is much better than using a cam button.
I like the part when you spoke about there tech line...They are sad....i bought a cam from them it came with the journals not finished and 2 lifters rusted solid....and i get comments every day telling me i`m the idiot...i went Schneider
It's crazy and I never thought I'd say this but Comp Cams is going to shit! There customer service has been horrible over the last few years I've used them and should've been my red flag like u said. There parts are going to shit at times I've noticed and I think they have to many variables in who produces their stuff now, I've gotten 3 or 4 different sets of push rods and every 1 had something different about it (all same pn I should say) rocker arms falling apart, lifters failing etc it's crazy how much they've went downhill from what I remember. I'm switching to Howards cams on my next build I think. Sucks cause I just build a street truck with a sbc 350 and used all their stuff and now I guess I'm just waiting for something to fail me lol. Starting a new sbc soon so I'll eventually swap the comp cams motor and tear it back apart lol Definitely trying other names though. Howards, Luntia, Isky to name a few but definitely won't be comp cams anywhere in this build! Especially after seeing all these videos coming out now, it just matches what I was already thinking for myself. Great video man, sry it happened to ya I know what a set back this kind of shit is! I'm a Chevy man but I can still feel for ya lol A well built motor is exactly that and shouldn't have to go out like this regardless what kind it is
What was your oil pressure like? With a wiped out lifter bore your oil pressure musta plummeted, thus giving you your first indication that something was wrong. I watch my oil pressure RELIGIOUSLY with cruising and thrashing my stroker 347. Got a hydraulic flat tappet comp cam in mine for years w/o any issues. Will go with a solid roller too eventually. Sucks though man, sorry
Just curious. How do you get an 816 ci engine to 8000 rpm with 18 degree heads? I make peak power at 7600 with SR20 heads, MPI, 14.5:1 and a pretty healthy cam. Not sure how an engine with such a huge stroke can rev 400 rpm more than my 582. My cam at 50 is 288 int. 304 ext. .870 lift. 115 LSA. I would imagine that even with 12 degree heads that would be a tall order. The piston speed in your setup is insane and cause a lot of parasitic loss.
so you put it back together. did it fail again? occurred to me, often factory spec for lifter bores vs whats actually there in the finished block in the older engines was usually different. when stock low rpm flat tappets were used it was never a problem, but when you go to aggressive roller lobes and increased rpm the tolerance stack could bite you in the behind. this is why most serious builds will rebore for a larger lifter, or redrill and sleeve each lifter hole to make it correct. it could be as simple as that. comp was kind to replace the cam and lifters. my guess is tolerance stack bit you. that combined with maybe slightly too much lash and an unintentional over rev condition weakened the roller, then when it finally let go it went wild and broke the tie bar. my question is why didnt you shut it down before it did that much damage. even a hard hit pass you would hear that, the engine would have lost power and youd shut it down. that looks like you drove it another 15 miles after it failed.
I have been building engines for decades using Comp products. I have never experienced personally this kind of an issue. Any manufacturing company is subject to possible error in their process, it is just the way things can be as humans are involved. This particular situation however is caused from other circumstance not associated with parts manufacturing process.
my friend built short track engines for 45 years. built all kinds of stock engines and street racing engines and show car engines. he said anything can happen. he built a short track engine and on its 4th laph it turned a cam bearing.
Thank you for sharing. I'm guessing that was a huge lift cam. But even so, they should have a lifter warning to protect u from running an inferior set-up. A shame they didn't replace or compensate u for anything else they caused damage to. But I'm not really that surprised by that. I am surprised they admitted any fault at all. And then replaced anything. You sounded rather calm while explain everything. I don't know If I could've be that calm. Have u got it back together yet? I'm wondering how it turned out for you. I liked & subbed. thanks
cam was only 610 valve lift so you are correct. I have bounced back from this pain, just ran an 11.8 quarter last week with the same basic setup, thinking about a converter change and going deep 11s or turning up the nitrous for a 10. I was rather calm because this video was shot a couple of weeks after the fact haha, enough time to cool my jets......
I'm 66 years old and the only time I had one fail during break in was my fault and it was not a comp I have heard people blame it on the lifters or the cam but 99% of the time its human error at least 45 years of building engines I can say I had one wipe out because I didn't take out the inner spring on a 560 lift cam in the last 3 months I broke in 3 cams no problem if you wipe out a roller it was your fault there is no zinc or phosphorus in off the shelf oil that is needed for sure in a flat tappet cam break in good luck hope you get it back on the road but that is part of hot rodding at least you didn't put a rod thru the block and ruin everything
If you called CompCams to get advice, they probably would have said to use the Retro-fit hydraulic roller kit, NOT link-bars. Looks like your block already had someone mess with drilling holes larger than they should have. Should have used a roller block, there's a reason Ford uses SPIDER and H bars.
I feel your pain. Comp cam mechanical lifters suck.. My Engine builder told me to get either Crower, or Isky Red roller lifters.. also told me.. In time roller lifters in time will all fail. And should be replaced.. Need to keep a eye on them
We are glad to see all of the traction this video is getting! I see some references to the flat tappet cam failure that I referenced. Here is a link to the break in procedure I use for flat tappet cams th-cam.com/video/MYc3TnDLUHs/w-d-xo.html we also have a video of the install. Have a good one!
Wow you spent some serious cash on this build.
Sorry it turned out so bad.
Man I just went through cams because of lifters too but these were Sealed Power hydraulic flat tappet lifters a lifter wore through and I am not the only one others had the same issue and then I was told to use Comp Cams lifters because they are made by Delphi but now that I see your video I don't know what to do
@@bigboreracing356 The same spec cam from Comp went back in and has had no issues so far.
@@bigboreracing356 "same spec cam" meaning the same cam...
@@bigboreracing356 no need to get upset. In the video it says Comp *replaced* the cam. It didn't say they upgraded (billet) or sent a different cam. Not sure what you are trying to prove with baseless accusations...
A follow up video about the cam is unnecessary as we never had an issue with the cam. The failure was almost certainly link bar related. Any questions that aren't answered in the video have been addressed in the comments. Have a good day.
I've used comp cams and lifters for years on 1200 + hp nitrous motors with no failures.
I'm sorry!
What engine ?
Been using comp cams products for decades with zero issues as well 🤷♂️
Me too, but that was back in the day, todays Comp Cams products Quality is Bad. We all know why..
@@eriv4735 issues are rare. But I toasted a camshaft (X303 camshaft) because the rollers on my lifters blew up. Then I bought the higher quality comp cam lifter and they've worked fine. But the normal comp cam lifters I wouldn't recommend just for precautionary reasons. Nobody wants to be that 1 in a thousand case of bad lifters. I'm just sayin.
I have installed dozens of comp cams without fail. Their is other possable causes here. With that being said I would not be so quick to blame comp.
Same and agreed
This isn't a comp cam problem, it's a builder issue.. somebody didn't know what they were doing
@@boosted0079 Adam's rite, Bobby sorry to tell you tie bars don't break unless they hit something. You know they make a longer lifter so this don't happen. Don't bash comp cams for a human error.
bobbyrains007 also what does voting for trump have to do with anything with cams? Dumbass comment and reply
I've heard of this from 2 others both ran a solid cam, Is it more prevalent in solid lifters vs hydraulic rollers?
@@boosted0079 not sure what voting for trump has to do with it but he could have stuck to tappets preventing this. This is human error. An besides trumps a badass
@@boosted0079 I bet he did vote for Trump. Because we want that thing called Freedom! By the way You're a moron trying to insult a Trump supporter on this type of video, go insult a Trump supporter on a tesla video maybe you'll get some Bozo Joe supporters to agree with you.
More like think twice before letting you touch anything
I would not let this genius work on my lawn mower
@@boblongdickder6178 🤣🤣🤣
@@boblongdickder6178 lol
This, at least to me, seems more like an operator error due to an incorrect valve lash/gap adjustment.
I have been using comp cams for a longtime and ain't never had a problem sounds to me like there is a mechanic issue not a comp issue
That's not from cam failure.
Looks like a lifter failure
Let me give you a professional opinion. Id think twice before I bought anything other than CompCams.
I think he confused going 60 mph with the tach showing 6000 rpms.. lol
I've ran lunati, comp, erson, crane, howards.... the ONLY failure I've had was my own damn fault. Broke a solid cam in with too much spring pressure, didn't use ZDDP, and didn't use EDM solid lifters. Even then... we had two years in that cam before it wiped.
Built circle track engines turning 7,000rpm for 5 summer every Saturday that have lived just fine if everything is installed and used to spec.
That was my only cam failure and I was young and dumb and "knew better" thinking it'll be fine.... now I break all solid flat cams in with the inner springs removed, heavy zddp oils, and low ratio rockers.
It is fact that Comp had a run of cams that were improperly heat treated a few years back.....
this is a roller cam do not need zddp or break in.
@@milojanis4901 where the hell did you pull that lie out of??? comp gets there cam cores from the same supplier as other cam manufacturers. if comp is "out of proper cams" the everyone is out of cams.
As a former builder I recommend buying your ENTIRE valve train from the cam company.
Make sense??
I agree fully but from what I see the failed link bar caused all the damage. If the link bar didn't fail the cam would not of been damaged and so on.
Don’t make excuses, that link doesn’t see heavy loads.
All you guys talking about zinc additive and zddp dont understand what it is for. The zinc is needed in an engine with flat tappet lifters in either solid or hydraulic form. It is not needed for a roller cam. Break in oil is still recommended for a new engine but it is not for the roller cam.
Chevy BelAir lmfao thank you.!!!
Ikr!
Actually bud. Znic/zddp. Is a friction modifier and creates a film to protect metal on metal contact in a high friction load. So in a high spring load soild roller applications it has a benefit. Zinc in any high rpm application has its benefits.
@@codyblack5490 I've heard that ZDDP used in a roller lifter application will cause the surface to be too slippery and the roller will not turn on its axle. Ultimately this will cause a flat spot on the lifter roller which will cause a failure.
@@charlestappa59 maybe in a hydraulic roller application. But in applications that has high spring pressure i cant see that. Im not saying your wrong. And all aspects of a build need to be considered. Zinc is a friction modifier.
Honest True Story,
Had a 468 Big Block Chevy build for a street strip car, bought a Hyd Roller Comp Cam and tie-bar lifters from Comp. Installed and Degreed the cam per specs, had the high zinc break in oil and followed proper break in procedures and everything seemed perfect.....ran the engine long enough to have a proper break in and as normal drained oil and removed filter for fresh 10w30 hot rod oil with the zinc still in the oil.
Upon inspection of the drained oil noticed a lot of metal flakes almost like silver metal flake paint but in oil,
Cut and closely inspected Oil Filter and it was full of flakes ! and not Tony the tiger frosted kind either....anyway long story short pulled engine back out and started to pull it apart and taking off the intake was as far as I needed to see the loves of the Cam were literally crumbling under the hydraulic roller lifters....I had never seen a Cam do anything even close to this and after tons of time with Comp on the phone....it turned out to be something in the hardening of the Cam something went badly wrong....and Comp replaced everything that even remotely was damaged by this .....they didn't like it and tried questioning my assembly or experience level but they quickly dropped that. All in all it was around 8 months before this was settled and done....and I have and will NEVER purchase another Comp Cam or products. Good thing this was my personal hot rod and not a customer's.
, sounds like they quenched the material when was to hot, cam recommendations? Iski cams?
Why would you need zinc and break in time on a hydraulic roller cam? Fishy.
What brand of camshaft and lifters do you use now ?
I don't think it's a problem with the lifters this is usually improper lash that causes this as far as the flat tappet goes most likely improper break in and or the wrong oil and or to much spring pressure or a combination of these been using comp cams for 30 years zero problems 99% of the time it is mistakes by the installer that causes these problems
Again, no break in required for roller cams, and the exact springs called for by comp were used and were checked by my machinist prior to installation. As far as lash goes, I mention in the video the values gathered.
@@The_Octane_Addicts quit whining. take it like a man. do it right next time and don't blame comp cams for your (or your builders) mistakes. if comp paid for every wanna be builders/knuckleheads mistakes we'd have to pay more to cover your self inflicted mistakes. it's a learning process, if you don't want the mistakes that come with learning then hire an experienced, reputable builder, or learn yourself. what this video really did was to give comp cams some good free advertising. so thank you for that.
Cast roller cams are very prone to flaking iron off of the lobes. Comp actually calls these cams austempered steel. It's is actually just a heat treated cast iron cam. You can see the casting's familiar surface everywhere on the cam except the journals and lobes.
When you play the game, sometimes you loose. I've seen failures from all manufactures, bottom line is when you build an engine beyond it's original design intentions, then push it beyond it intended limits, well......sometimes shit breaks.
True words
Exactly
Lose
If you build performance engines and run them hard expect to break things. There are so many brand name products selling parts made in China you can't be sure anymore. Valves, valve springs and roller lifters.ect
Don't think a block is clean because it was hot tanked.the block must be cleaned again with solvent a bore brushes. I use a pressure washer and scrub it after I get it back from the shop. I usually spend hours deburring the block and removing any slag. Then clean it again. I have bought crankshafts that had grinder dust in them. Everything must be operating room clean.
I've built well over 100 performance engines both professionally and as a hobby over the last 30 years. Ive used Comp Cams for at least 95% of my builds and not once have I had a Comp Cams product of any kind fail . Not a single thing. Their cams and lifters are great quality . The fact that you had a solid roller cam shaft fail makes it obviously clear that the failure was due to set up specs or lubricant failure. There is No required break in on a solid roller cam and lifters. If it were a Problem with the Parts they would have failed almost immediately.
I have used Comp cams 30 years ago, but in the last 10 years their quality control has really dropped. Especially on their flat tappet Cam and lifter packages.
@@ryanwheatley9369 10 dollar cam cores. cheap and off-shored. Not always the case with older ones.
In a flat Tappet situation, I think these “fast ramp” cam lobes are trouble. Subtract duration @.050 from the advertised. Smaller number equals fast lobe.
This application is roller lifter so it’s different. Looks like the tie bar broke and the lifter rotated 90 degrees.
@Phillip Aubin NOT POSSIBLE. Try it.
Yea not comp cams fault
I recently built a 496 bbc stroker with a comp cam, and the cam on the first time we tried to install it would not fit smoothly, in fact to turn the cam inside the block you had to use two bolts and a 3 foot pry bar. We then took out the cam and had the bearings checked (which might be your problem) the clearances were all different, so we had to custom order some bearings. After that the motor was then rebuilt and assembled and ran. The motor then had another issue that may also be your problem. The blocks main journals and the cam shaft clearances inside the block needed to be adjusted and machined the right way at the right length so on. The motor had a noticeable vibration and wasn’t right and produced what you were seeing. After the machining process it was fixed. It wasn’t one alone part in fact it was multiple. If I were you I would do a little more digging on the block and make sure if you still haven’t fixed it to have the clearances checked. As the cam shaft could have had excess pressure under load and snapped the lobe off the cam.
Be sure to check your oil pump! All that metal shrapnel went through the pump, to get to the filter. Those particles look more than big enough to score the oil pump. If the oil pressure seems low at idle, but OK at running speed, it would likely be the pump, rather than the bearings.
you are correct, i did think to do that and it was thrashed. Replaced it when the motor was rebuilt. A small purchase compared to the rest but a critical component not to forget!
i have seen this happen with valve float, a lot of guys dont want to run the heavy valve springs required to keep all the valve train under control. i have used comp cams for years and never had a problem.
I have been running comp for years, never a problem to be honest about it.
Me also, never a problem with comp cams.
Same here never a problem with comp cams. I install alot of them in engine builds for customers.
Me too, been running Comp Cams in every engine i built, except my first one at 16, there i used a Lunati. NEVER had any issues with any Comp Products. Heard a few problems with Crane stuff, But Never Comp Cams.
A late model Windsor block uses a longer lifter bore than the early blocks.
So you can't just drop in a stock roller cam in an early block with stock lifters.
So to, if you want to run a performance roller cam in an early block, the cam must be offset ground so that the lifter fits in the bore at the right height and position.
It appears this was the problem.
The maker of this video needs to tell people what cam he used and if it was offset ground or not.
they make shorter roller lifters for converting the early blocks. i’ve heard you can use smaller base circle cams for the earlier blocks? my knowledge isn’t concrete, I have an 88 351 block i’ll eventually convert to roller. I guess i’ll have to figure this out
I have used comp cams valve-train equipment for years without ANY problems. Mainly big block Chevy, and always flat tappet solid custom ground from their list of lobe families. Either X-treme energy, Magnum and Hi-tech solid designs. And the Pro-Plasma Nitriding on the flat tappets is even more bullet proof. Comp also offers different cores to the end user, I always specify cams to be ground on Pro55 cores for solid designs without nitriding. At the end of the day, Comp Cams are a great cam company with a reliable reputation. Cheers !
We've used Comp cams in our 1000 HP Super comp BBC 468 for years with no problems. It has everything to do with break in and the oils used. After running the engine on the dyno (Just shy of a 1000HP and about 900 pounds of torque) we broke it in on the track with a lower viscosity oil such as Pennzoil 10/40 with Comp cams break in additive that has tons of zinc in it but after two half track passes my son then ran it out the door at 7.62 @ 183. It still had more in it. Then we change to what we always run. Torco full synthetic 20/50. It holds 15 quarts. Lasts all season which is 200 passes minimum. I have to agree with some other comments. The cam lobe failure had everything to do with how the engine was built and mostly how it was broken in. Comp gave in because bad PR costs lots more than another cam.
That's called "learn how to adjust valve lash correctly"...
This is what happens when you "hodge podge" parts together, ALWAYS buy a balanced rotating assembly..
I've had nothing but good results from Comp Cams, but it looks like other parts failed in your car, not the camshaft.
Valvetrain really isn't considered a Rotating Assy. That would be your Crank, Rods, Pistons, and Yes always Balance Rotating Assy.
I installed a Thumpr cam in my SBC 350 (that is in my 1989 Chevy K1500 truck ) back in 2012 and it's still going strong!!
No problems.
Even without the link barbin place, the lifter can't easily rotate 90 degrees unless it has lost contact with the camshaft. This happens when you float the valves.
That makes no sense at all. If that's the case, where's the logic in even having a link bar in the first place? Surely isn't used just as a redundancy lol. Come on man smh lol. Those cams are rotating at thousands of rpms. You really think time lifter should just stay on track with all the movement and oil pressure? Reading all these "professionals" with their opinions and speculating is almost funny.
@@boosted0079 If you think that breaking a tie bar off, and spinning a roller lifter sideways, without a series of rookie mistakes happening beforehand, you're mistaken. Bad component choices, poor assembly and whiskey foot are precisely the cause of this kind of failure.
Been running comp cams Lifters, rockers and cam shafts for years and have had one lifter failure witch was caused by allowing someone else use my car well I was on the road and they failed to check the oil on it. Even the best companies out there can have a defective part. This is a pay to play game we are in. Looks like you ran that motor a hot min after it broke. The second i hear a slight change I pull the Valve covers and check lash. The one time I did loose a lifter I shut it down and had my buddy bring my trailer so I would not torch the motor.you messed up when you knew there was a problem and kept driving. Just My.02.
I agree that it should have been run less, but when you are on the highway you can only do so much, it limped a mile to a safe stop and was only run for a couple of total minutes for trouble shooting both at my place and at the engine shop, either way the motor would have needed to come apart with a failure of this kind :/
“Kept driving”
Yeah, normal people are willing to hurt the engine and pull off the freeway to a safe spot.
Insane people risk lives over engines and stop on the freeway.
There are only like 3 companies that MAKE lifters. Comp Cams gets them from Delphi, so does AC Delco. It could have been product failure, but we needed to see if you still had correct valve lash as a contributing factor.
@K Hilgers Did you try looking it up?
My good sir, you can't blame comp cams, a well renowned parts distributor on a mistake on your behalf. You wouldn't have wiped a lobe if your valve lash was set correctly and measured, and you broke it in with 20min. @ 2000rpm. There are instructions on cam break in, whether its hydraulic tappet, flat tappet, or roller tappets. Every cam includes that little instruction sheet.
2000 rpm break in with a roller cam ? You are not too smart.
I bought 8 comp cams 1.6 - 1 roller rockers, because the 1.65 - 1 crower rockers would have possibly caused the intake valves to hit the pistons; the clearance was not quite enough when i did the play-dough test. So the 1.6 gave enough clearance. After maybe 20 or 30 thousand miles, i pulled the valve covers to adjust the valves and i found the comp rockers were worn badly. The crower rockers were still perfect. That was when i decided comp cams made garbage. I wouldn’t trust anything comp makes after that.
NEVER use Play Doh for that!! It can give false results. Use real clay.
It just doesn't look like a very strong / robust design. I know Ford made the 5.0L with a roller cam, I don't know about the 5.8L. Yes the older blocks were heavier, that had more to do with core shift. Improvements were made in the cores and core shift, and so the blocks didn't need to be as heavy to compensate for what might end up thin. I worked for Ford Motor Co in the Cleveland Casting Plant, the 351 had been out of production, but we were still producing the 302 / 5.0L for the Explorer.
The problem isn't from Comp Cams it's from incompetent building and lack of proper oil
Can confirm that the exact motor break in oil required by my builder was used (driven BR40), and the correct oil was used for daily use (Driven 20w50). As far as the build quality, it was covered in the video.
@@The_Octane_Addicts Comp Cam still requires you to use their additive the zddp even wen you use a good breakin oil cca 159 is the part number
@@bartbarnett2811 that is what BR40 has, BR stands for break in
I think you guys should fight about it
@@The_Octane_Addicts quit whining and take your lumps. you and your builder screwed up. you for hiring them, them for not knowing procedures, and now you for whining so much. and them for not taking care of you without blaming others.
your own statements tell that you didn't follow procedures. grow up, get a pair of gonads.
gotta pay to play. you tried cheaping out and now it's costing you more. that's how it works.
learn to build or pay a real builder.
sissies like you annoy us.
Lunati is the only way to go. I've been using their stuff for 30 years with ZERO issues.
i’m still “new” to this engine building stuff but i’ve had nothing but good results with my lunati too! hydraulic flat tappet in a small block chevy, just rebuilt it and the can still looks very good with very minimal wear and a good wear profile! always add zinc to flat tappet oil
Looking at xe264hr from comp for my 98 vortec roller block so using stock style lifters luckily 😎 does lunati make a cam with the same specs? Needs to be the step nose oe style
@@jjmccloud check lunatis website, www.lunatipower.com/cams/lp-chevrolet-gm/chevrolet-small-block-lt1-and-lt4-1987-up/hydraulic-roller.html they have lots of cams for several different applications, youll wanna look at their 1987and up small block cams
Ran Lunati myself with zero issues. Can't say the same for Comp. Also Lunati is only 90 minutes from me so I usually stop by their HQ and get all my parts from their friendly staff.
@@jh383zx thx will do!
I don't see anything here that shows you used the break-in procedures recommended by Comp Cams. Did I miss that portion of the video?
It's a roller cam there is no break in. Also this wasnt a cam failure it was a lifter failure. You only break in a flat tappet cam btw.
I would think that if it was a problem with the camshaft manufacture, there would be damage to other individual cams.
He's going to have rod bearing trouble next. A stock crank 351W absolutely requires .003-.0035 on the rod bearings.
I can tell by the premature wear on the rod bearing that it WAS NOT metal from the cam. It's from not enough clearance and 6000+ rpm shifts.
He's lucky the cam failed first.
I agree with the one comment I've been building engines for years stock and a few racing engines put a lot of engines together and machine them but this is definitely installer error check out the rest of the engine and find out what else has not been installed right I've learned many things from working with great engine builders and reading a few good books
Shit also happens. Parts do fail, thru metallurgical errors, engineering mistakes, poor assembly, etc.
Looks like the roller bined in it's housing. Possibly a non finished wash block and or non de-burred block. Could also be improperly set valve lash.
bought a turn key dragster with the 468 engine and have 3 lifters BROKE ? never even got to race it yet. had no wAY
of knowing if the engine was ok until i trailered it home to my shop. Never got to race it yet. Found 3 broken lifters from Comp cam part # 883-16. lifter is stamped comp cam 16-05 but they look pretty darn new, not much wear at all.. not happy. Ruined the cam of course. Never even got it up in RPM, knew it did not sound right. NOT HAPPY.
This is not a comp cams problem it an installation problem
have no idea what his problem is. mine is not any kind of install problem. have been told they are now made in china and re boxed here in the USA. not sure who you are talking with. @@Myvintageiron7512
@@Myvintageiron7512 I mean if it was installed by experienced professionals, I'd tend to think they did a good job unless signs point otherwise...
@@stevemartens7873 LOL comp cam's and lifters are made in Memphis Tenn. where did you get the China nonsense from?? how did you break in the cam? What was your Spring Pressure, and what kind of oil did you use? if you cannot answer these questions correctly than it is definitely and installation problem I own an Automotive Machine shop we build 8 to 10 engines a month all with comp cams products we have had zero problems been doing it with comp products for 30 years trust if there was a problem with their cams we would have found it by now
@@Myvintageiron7512 are you thinkin' maybe
these guys didn't know to use the zinc additive ?
because thats what i'm thinkin'.
You used a retro fit offset ground cam. The lifter's were not running at the right depth/ position in the bores causing the problem.
The 69 block maybe stronger? I always use the later block that was a roller from factory. Never have those alignment worries.
It's an oiling issue that the lifters have at idle. Hence why solid rollers are not recommended for street. If you run solid in the street get lifters that have bushings and not needle bearings.
For the flat cam discussions below....
Hint for using zddp on flat tappets.
1) spend $40 and get the cam nitrited.
2) mix the zddp into each quart of oil very well BEFORE pouring the oil into the engine.
Think about this....
The first 10 seconds are the most critical. How long will it take to mix the zddp into six quarts of oil otherwise???
A minute at 2500???
as mentioned many times in the video, this is not a flat tappet camshaft.
@@The_Octane_Addicts They don't get it. Most of them have never held a cam in their little hands and wouldn't know the difference between the two. You can expect a lot of stupid replies to your video from these guys with no knowledge. I had to quit reading the comments because there was so many idiot comments. It's very apparent that your problem is one created by Comp. I never liked their roller lifters, I don't like the design of the guide bar. It looks a little flimsy and I don't like the square retention hole. I hope you got it sorted out and thanks for the video.
Addict.
I did address my comment to the commenters below who were discussing ft and oil.
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I am having my engine rebuilt and upgraded and they ONLY use Comp Cams on the upgrade and they warranty parts and labor. I can't get that from anyone else. Five year 100k miles and they are making a 450 hp truck motor. 522/529 lift, 212/218 duration, 114 center 1200-6000 powerband. K&N Cold Air Intake, X-Pipe, 3 inch Borla Catback. It should have tons of lowend!
Been thinking about this failure. I would almost bet money debris of some sort blocked the oil passage to that lifter. A piece of a thread, a chunk of loose casting sand, a piece of silicone.... the reason I say* that is because if it were a defective part it would have gone to hell immediately. If it were a case hardening issue more than one lobe would be affected. My guess is the trunion needle was starved for oil, failed, turned the lifter sideways breaking the tie bar when the lifter bottomed out in the bore. I'd be willing to bet if you inspected the bottom of the tie bar there was wear at the bottom showing what happened first. The marks in the block would show at what angle.
Tada! IMHO YOU WIN
Are you *SURE* you didn’t have that one dog-bone upside down?? It’s an easy mistake to make, Yo!
X2 on this !!
I feel for you on this, but I have to say it’s pretty shitty of you to make this video. I could see if Comp fought you on this and refused to work with you on it, but that’s not the case because they sent you all new components. I’m tired of everyone these days feeling they need to review everything. Your lifter didn’t break driving down the highway, it failed completely yes but the damage was done when you got after it before driving down the highway. Guaranteed it was caused by valve float, 145# of seat pressure is nowhere near enough on a dual spring with a solid roller, with a beehive yes, dual no. I’ll guarantee you have valve train harmonic issues, I’d go back to the drawing board on your spring package. And also, if you didn’t have your valve guides clearanced properly on those Edelbrock heads then that’s your other issue, you’re sticking valves, valve to guide clearance is waaaayyyy too tight on Edelbrocks out of the box, just my .2 cents.
X2
That’s more of a lifter failure, bro.
That's pretty clear when he talks about it in the video. The link bar on the lifters that are made by comp cams failed.
@@boosted0079 He still hasn't proven the link bar and lifters were installed correctly, or why the link bar failed. Keep passing the buck it will end up back in his pocket!!
You guys need to check your lifters if you're using flat tappet stuff..UTG found mismachined bottoms..they were ground flat instead of concave. These were new out of the box
when ford went roller lifter, they changed the block slightly for taller lifter guides because of the extra height. I wonder if this was a flat tappet block and he threw in roller lifters and something bad happened. why did the bearings get ruined?
don't know what brand oil filter that was used. looks like it did a good job of trapping the metal. unless the filter bypass is stuck open you have other oiling issues. is the filter screwed on the block or is it remote mounted? if the filter traps the metal then it cannot get into the block without going past a bypass.
Shit breaks, sorry you had to go through this. Honestly I have read a lot about compcams recently saying that they were not heat treated for a while, but quality has improved. But their lifters seem to be cheap and have a lot of issues.
I would go with Crane or Crower lifters.
Wasn't the cam. Crappy lifters. The cams themselves are ok, but usually a good idea to stay away from the lifters since they are 3rd party and not made by Comp. The only retrofit roller ones I've found that are somewhat decent for long term use are ones by Morel (Sold as Howards Race Series). They cost about 700-800 dollars for the SBC since they're popular. Not without issues, but at least they have yet to grenade like that, and they seem to have sorted out most of the issues with getting the rollers to last by ditching the chrome coating they used to use.
Agree entirely about your comment, my complaints are directed more at the lifters than the camshafts
I had the same lifter tie bar failure in my 408 Ford Cleveland, I was lucky I heard it fail and shut it off straight away but the cam and 2 lifters & lifter bores were still screwed.
There is a problem with the lifters. The lifter manufacturers are putting out garbage lifters causing cams to fail. There is a video about this.
I have used comp cams roller lifters for many years without a failure. Care must be taken while assembly. Not inferring that it wasn’t. Good luck with your build.
I've talked to several engine builders over the last month a out cams and wiped out lobes/lifters. Comp is the number one brand mentioned by those shops that folks have an issue with. Lunati is second.
@port nut Guess who bought Comp? Edelbrock.
How are crane cams
Looks like a cast cam ? Every roller I installed was always a steel billet.
I'm not a Ford expert but is your top timing sprocket on backwards? Usually the sipes are for an oil wedge between the sprocket and the thrust face.
Did you check to see if your Block is a "Bad Walker" .Sometimes as a block goes down the machining line at the factory when it hits the tappet boring station a bur or "something" between a datum point and a fixture can make the tappet bores to be slightly out of square with the Cam bore. You can check a block by spinning the cam in the block before any assembly about 100 revolutions in both directions .If the cam wants to screw itself into or out of the block you should not use this block for roller cams .It will likely be fine for flat tappets. Comp cams is reputable and there are a lot of variables.
definitely agree there are a lot of variables, but i went through all of the ones myself and the builder could think of and came to the conclusion that the lifter was at fault, which comp agreed to since they sent me new parts
This been happening with few builds at our machine shop with tappet cams like wasnt hardened . Make wondering something wasnt put together right or if zink additive wasnt used. In first startup making cam fail
They've started making roller lifters with bushings in them now instead of needle bearings so That way you don't contaminate your engine with a needle bearings if one of them were to fail. It's been around for a long time but the Cam and left her companies are really starting to push them now because needle bearings in your oil pan is such a typical problem with lifter failure
Thanks for the heads up on Comp cams.
Really, that they replaced the parts is them standing by their warranty, and it sucks that there were related damages and additional costs, but solid roller cams and lifters aren’t exactly “oem level durability tested”. The lifter bore can be bushed and the block saved. The rest of the engine appears to be reasonably usable. The expense of fixing this failure kind of goes with the territory. At least your standard bore block that you have .030” over Wisecos for didn’t go to the machine shop for hot tank and magnaflux and come back to you .060” over. This doesn’t merit running anyone away from Comp, but it is a good share where there are things to be learned.
This is the major reason I shy far away from solid roller cam and lifters setups, I know many people that use them, but haven't had problems, but that cam hits on that pushrod so damn hard with the lash needed and I dont like checking my lash that often.
There's nothing wrong with solids, just get needle free lifters.
@port nut I was using flat tappet, on stock rocker nuts. My fault, but every two races I checked, not much movement, but still checked. Heard horror stories from old guys. Not that it means much anymore.
Had a lot of problems with comp cams. No one else, just comp. About 15 years ago I stopped using comp., have not had one cam fail.
It was not uncommon for engine producers to cant the lifter bores. I've seen them out by 7 degrees. They did this to promote lifter spin. Lots of blocks these days already come from the factory machined straight. If you put a roller cam in an old motor you need to at least check the bores relation to the cam. If you know exactly what you are doing... there are lifters with bent link bars. These will keep the rollers on an angle. So if you know the actual way your bores are canted and can figure out which canted link bars to use, you can counter this. Also reduces friction on your valve train.
Most people on here think it's assembly error and that Comp Cams is fine but then you read comments of people that have had problems and after you read enough then you get more convinced of a possible parts failure due to metallurgy or assembly. Kinda tells me that some people are having issues with defective parts. Some have accepted it and some are yet to be convinced. Keep buying those cheap ass lifters and keep suffering parts failures.
After building engines professionally for over 30 years. Everything from stock builds to 800 hp dirt track cars. Comp cams has never been a problem. I have had 3 people who did their own deal....ended up with flat cams....due to break in failure. What baffles me is.....if you had this engine done by a machine shop.....why go back and recheck all their work? Obviously you didn't feel confident in their work. Another thing I question is your valve lash. Was it checked hot or cold. Despite what the recommendations are.....aluminum heads have a different lash setting than a cast head does. If you run an aluminum block and aluminum heads.....even a different deal. But that's another conversation.
People like this are engine builders worst nightmare.
800 hp dirt track ? Bullsh!t !
Why check machine shop work ? I do everytime I have work done. Smart people do it.
You don’t know much about dirt track racing.
And why is that?
The reason you always check everything regardless of the shop is because humans do machine work and are not perfect. everyone in every profession can have a bad day at anytime. Its cheaper to catch a problem on assembly than it is after everything is chewed up.
I have had a few problems with comp. All on number 7 on my chevy. Bent push rod, lifter mushroomed out and then the cam rounded out. First i had replaced the push rod. Second i replaced the came and all of the lifters then i replaced the cam and all the lifters again with a different grind. The first time i had replaced the cam and lifters i went ahead and gotten sportman 2's with harland sharp rollers. I ended up parking the damn thing and got a new vehicle. Its been sitting for about 10 yrs now. I kept buying comp because everyone swears by them. I had a old school exhaust guy guess my damn cam and grind when he installed my exhaust. I asked him how he knew and he grinned and said because the number 7 valve was slapping.
i had 2 comp cams wipe a lobe then i herd there was a bad batch of cams but who would admit to it just be ready for failures hope for the best
Soak the lifters in oil pump them up with a push rod in a drill press submerged in a can of oil. Follow break in procedure. The retrofit roller set ups from comp are ok but heavy springs and heavy rockers may be too much esp 1.6 ratios Truth is many years ago they did a big dyno run and the power difference was not as much as one would expect compared to flat tappet
I have been caught out with Comp Cams valve springs had failure with them and and dropped a valve so had to rebuild motor and yes got rid of Comp Cams roller lifters I won’t touch Comp Cams no more
Hard telling! You can always find a weak part now and then as I seen it in a oval track motor back in 1980 when those rollers were first used, we has a lifter bar break and turn a lifter sideways and just so happen we got protested that night and tore down when we seen the lifter, when I pulled it out the roller was half size! So I thanked who ever protested the engine for saving it! But it put metallic through the whole engine.
I built race engines. I strategically place magnet's in oil drain back area's in engine so metal never reaches the pump.
I had the same issue with a comp high energy cam and lifter set a few years ago on an FE build. I called comp, they said they had a bad batch of lifters squeak past QC. They offered to make it right. I bought another set of the same thing from them at a discount, never had a problem since. Things happen.
the bearings dont look good was there oil contamination the pitting is odd . what additives where in for the break in time
Might be builder fault?
If more than just the one maybe...
Dude, Ford did not use any Nichole in any engine testing proves that and the 351 Windsor from 1969 to 1974 are the same casing proses but from 1975 they where changed to a thinner casting. The problem with your engine is you chose cheap roller lifters, Comp makes good lifters but you chose to go budget and that is the results of it.
Nichole? Who the hell is she? 🤣
The first thing looking at the pictures, if that's a solid roller, It looks like it's cast instead of billet. Second, I couldn't tell, but the roller lifters looked cast also. Third the roller lifters with those cheesey rectangle buttons to hold the link bar, no Bueno! Most of the good ones have a round button , so there is not an edge for the link bar to catch on. Had comp failures as with other brands (flat cams) , but I will say that howards and bullet are the only two that I know of that give you a billet full cnc cam. Most of the rest is cast and ground on a berco grinder. The only thing on your end is to make sure it is getting oil and that lifter bore has the proper clearance.
When I found out that comp cams nolonger makes there products in the U.S. I stopped buying their products. No quality control = inferior products. No warranty on any products they make or sell. And shit like this happens more often these days. Comp cams said it's counterfeit parts when I had a similar problem a few years ago. I have had better experience with Crane cams and their products are far more superior
Guess no one told you that Comp Cams owns Crane. Comp cams also owns Lunati, Cam dynamics, and General Kinetics.
I don't know anything about Ford engines, but some Chevy small blocks have a provision for a spider and dog bones that hold the roller lifters in place. Kind of asking a lot if all you have is a link bar holding the lifters straight. Which is why I would never build a non-factory roller Chevy engine (i know yours is Ford) by putting in a roller retro-fit kit. Factory roller Chevy's also have a machined boss for a cam retainer which is much better than using a cam button.
Spiders are for hydraulic rollers only. His was solid.
I spin their Sbc solid roller lifters to 8500rpm all the time. And you need a billet cam with heavy spring loads.
I like the part when you spoke about there tech line...They are sad....i bought a cam from them it came with the journals not finished and 2 lifters rusted solid....and i get comments every day telling me i`m the idiot...i went Schneider
I've used a few Schneider cams, I like them. You send them your cam spec and they grind you a great cam.
It's crazy and I never thought I'd say this but Comp Cams is going to shit! There customer service has been horrible over the last few years I've used them and should've been my red flag like u said. There parts are going to shit at times I've noticed and I think they have to many variables in who produces their stuff now, I've gotten 3 or 4 different sets of push rods and every 1 had something different about it (all same pn I should say) rocker arms falling apart, lifters failing etc it's crazy how much they've went downhill from what I remember. I'm switching to Howards cams on my next build I think. Sucks cause I just build a street truck with a sbc 350 and used all their stuff and now I guess I'm just waiting for something to fail me lol. Starting a new sbc soon so I'll eventually swap the comp cams motor and tear it back apart lol Definitely trying other names though. Howards, Luntia, Isky to name a few but definitely won't be comp cams anywhere in this build! Especially after seeing all these videos coming out now, it just matches what I was already thinking for myself. Great video man, sry it happened to ya I know what a set back this kind of shit is! I'm a Chevy man but I can still feel for ya lol A well built motor is exactly that and shouldn't have to go out like this regardless what kind it is
Appreciate it. Good luck on the new build.
Don't use Howard's they are garbage i run Comp cams in all my race engines never a issue
Luntia? Are they as good as Lunati? 🤣
I've used Comp Cams for nearly 40 years. Never had a problem.
What was your oil pressure like? With a wiped out lifter bore your oil pressure musta plummeted, thus giving you your first indication that something was wrong. I watch my oil pressure RELIGIOUSLY with cruising and thrashing my stroker 347. Got a hydraulic flat tappet comp cam in mine for years w/o any issues. Will go with a solid roller too eventually. Sucks though man, sorry
Old video , but I have installed over a 100 comp cams camshafts and lifters over 30 year period , had literally one bad lifter out of that period .
I run the comp endura lifters in my 816ci 18 degree big chief engine never had a problem 8000rpm
I ran solid shim-under-bucket lifters in my 1105cc Yoshimura Kawasaki, and never had a failure, even at 12,000rpm!!
Just curious. How do you get an 816 ci engine to 8000 rpm with 18 degree heads? I make peak power at 7600 with SR20 heads, MPI, 14.5:1 and a pretty healthy cam. Not sure how an engine with such a huge stroke can rev 400 rpm more than my 582. My cam at 50 is 288 int. 304 ext. .870 lift. 115 LSA. I would imagine that even with 12 degree heads that would be a tall order. The piston speed in your setup is insane and cause a lot of parasitic loss.
so you put it back together. did it fail again? occurred to me, often factory spec for lifter bores vs whats actually there in the finished block in the older engines was usually different. when stock low rpm flat tappets were used it was never a problem, but when you go to aggressive roller lobes and increased rpm the tolerance stack could bite you in the behind. this is why most serious builds will rebore for a larger lifter, or redrill and sleeve each lifter hole to make it correct. it could be as simple as that. comp was kind to replace the cam and lifters. my guess is tolerance stack bit you. that combined with maybe slightly too much lash and an unintentional over rev condition weakened the roller, then when it finally let go it went wild and broke the tie bar. my question is why didnt you shut it down before it did that much damage. even a hard hit pass you would hear that, the engine would have lost power and youd shut it down. that looks like you drove it another 15 miles after it failed.
I have been building engines for decades using Comp products. I have never experienced personally this kind of an issue. Any manufacturing company is subject to possible error in their process, it is just the way things can be as humans are involved. This particular situation however is caused from other circumstance not associated with parts manufacturing process.
my friend built short track engines for 45 years. built all kinds of stock engines and street racing engines and show car engines. he said anything can happen. he built a short track engine and on its 4th laph it turned a cam bearing.
Maybe the lash wasn’t set right? And where these retro fit roller lifters/cam?
Sorry made comment before watching full video
Thank you for sharing. I'm guessing that was a huge lift cam. But even so, they should have a lifter warning to protect u from running an inferior set-up. A shame they didn't replace or compensate u for anything else they caused damage to. But I'm not really that surprised by that. I am surprised they admitted any fault at all. And then replaced anything. You sounded rather calm while explain everything. I don't know If I could've be that calm. Have u got it back together yet? I'm wondering how it turned out for you. I liked & subbed. thanks
cam was only 610 valve lift so you are correct. I have bounced back from this pain, just ran an 11.8 quarter last week with the same basic setup, thinking about a converter change and going deep 11s or turning up the nitrous for a 10. I was rather calm because this video was shot a couple of weeks after the fact haha, enough time to cool my jets......
I'm 66 years old and the only time I had one fail during break in was my fault and it was not a comp I have heard people blame it on the lifters or the cam but 99% of the time its human error at least 45 years of building engines I can say I had one wipe out because I didn't take out the inner spring on a 560 lift cam in the last 3 months I broke in 3 cams no problem if you wipe out a roller it was your fault there is no zinc or phosphorus in off the shelf oil that is needed for sure in a flat tappet cam break in good luck hope you get it back on the road but that is part of hot rodding at least you didn't put a rod thru the block and ruin everything
If you called CompCams to get advice, they probably would have said to use the Retro-fit hydraulic roller kit, NOT link-bars. Looks like your block already had someone mess with drilling holes larger than they should have. Should have used a roller block, there's a reason Ford uses SPIDER and H bars.
Looks like preload or spring seat pressure was to high on that cam and wiped a lobe or no oil pressure at that roller lifter
That's pretty messed up dude! Hope the different lifters work out for you.
Lifter bore was bad to start with from previous oil starvation due to stock head oil return ports to small, been there done that.
I feel your pain. Comp cam mechanical lifters suck.. My Engine builder told me to get either Crower, or Isky Red roller lifters.. also told me.. In time roller lifters in time will all fail. And should be replaced.. Need to keep a eye on them
Agreed, they do need to be checked and don't last forever, that being said, it was a very low mile failure
Use hydraulic with high lift... more cash but more protection.