I ran a xe. 284. In my 428. For 6 years. Put over 800 passed o. It. Pulled it to switch to. Solid. It looked brand new. Broke it in with the 924. Springs. Ended up collapsing a couple of lifter plungers. On a over rev. Did not have a reb limiter at the time. Lifter foots and lobes. Looked brand new. Attention to details. In installation. Is where most people go wrong.
I've used other Comp cams before. Both solid lift and regular hydraulic grinds and had no problems with them. It was only the Xtreme Energy cam that I used that had problems and for hydraulic flat tappet that is all Comp offers now for Ford engines so I won't use them anymore.
It is Edelbrock that’s owns these sister companies, edelbrock hopfully will cast or use billet or better metals juring manufacturing process, they should because they own their own foundry , i have been running solid flat mechanical tappers since my teenage years never a problem , pay attention to details and products needed these daus
I don't have any chickens...and you're sadly mistaken if you think you have to have a fancy garage to do good work. Some of the worst work and builds I have ever seen come out of nice garages.
You are absolutely right. I got one of the extreme energy cams form my 460. I thought it was just marketing hype. It did make good power but the noise was so bad I thought all the lifters were bad. I replaced it with an Isky. Couldn't be happier.
I put a Comp flat tappet hydraulic cam in a 400 Ford last week and broke in the cam on an engine stand for 35 minutes. Seems good so far. I'm pulling the intake to look at the lifters before it goes in the car. I used stock valve springs for break in. The motor had an Edelbrock Performer kit and that cam had 2 bad lifters/lobes. I thought I was pulling out a good working cam glad I took it apart.
@@softenerguy Don't feel bad, that 360 I pulled had no tick or rattle to it but had a couple of flattened cam lobes when I tore it down. Thank you for you subscription.
To make these flat cams live it must start instantly I'll use about 20° initial advance hit it with either open the throttle and make it fire instantly and take it to 2,000 plus RPM and using Old outer springs only definitely helps and of course putting the right springs after the break in period
Me personally I like flat solid cams for their reliability , the first one lasted twenty-five years 7000 RPM shift points in a Chevy 355 driven to the track year after year sometimes twice a week with 411 gears and 4000 stall speed the car ran eleven 1 at 120 with iron dart sportsman's 200 s that was a circle track Reed cam , cast crank stock rods with ARP bolts and heavy TRW flat top pistons . Built another small block with a Comp cams solid flat tapet broke the cam in with Old outer springs only drove like that for two weeks then installed recommended springs 7000 + RPM very satisfied with comp cam it does what they say and removes doors off alot of roller camded cars .
I have nothing against solid lifter camshafts. I’ve had a few of them and still have one. You are correct that most of the time a solid flat tappet cam will out perform a hydraulic roller because the weight of the hydraulic roller will cause the valves to float because they are so heavy
@@BlackLabGarage I've been pondering lately if a low lift cam and high ratio rockers would help with valve float with rollers. My reasoning is because the lifters travel less distance in the same amount of time they wouldn't have as much momentum along with the longer rockers would give the springs more leverage to control the lifters. Example would be running a .480 lift with 1.7 rockers equaling .544 total lift vs a .544 lift with 1.5 rockers. I assume the 1.7 set up could use a little lighter spring.
@@nashvilleoutlaw I see what you're saying but I doubt .064 difference would create that much difference in whether it would valve float or not. I could be wrong. It might let it go a few more hundred rpm's before loosing control? Now you have me pondering on it lol
@@BlackLabGarage I've been putting a lot thought about cams into the 383 I'm putting together. Really wanting to try Vizard's 128 formula for cam selection. Engine displacement picks the LSA, overlap picks the rpm range. What I've pieced together is he measures LSA from the highest point of the lobe where cam manufacturers measure LSA as the center of the open and close events of each lobe and calculate it that way. So I'm looking at about 267/274 duration on a 107LSA with about 42 degrees of overlap for an almost stock sounding sleeper.
You bring a very good point...I bought a "thumpr" cam kit with lifter and double springs the whole nine and for a small block mopar and am frankly scared to fire it
Me and my brother put a big mutha thumpr in a 360 ended up wiping a lobe a year later but I don't think it was the manufacturer's falt because we had a problem getting the motor started quickly for camshaft break in do too a faulty ignition box which would fire and then stall I believe that was the culprit go ahead and fire that thing up and enjoy it while you can because it seems that they're trying to get rid us and remember everyone muscle cars and imports imports they're all hot rods .
@@asbelfernandez3598 Yeah cranking too long without it firing up wipes the assembly lube off the camshaft. That probably did shorten the life of the camshaft.
@@BlackLabGarage They will blow your torque right out the tailpipe. Just a gimmicky cam with goofy names to sell LS guys lap it up....plus the stage xxx bs. WHat happened to cam companies giving every single spec like they used to. Remember the old PAW books
I bought the extreme energy 4x4 for my 350 in my K5 blazer and it ate the cam in the break in period and filled the block full of metal and they said it was my fault and wouldn’t warranty the cam and it’s sitting in the Howard’s cam box that I replaced it with in the shed.
@@BlackLabGarage Same response when mine failed immediately. Right when that xe series came out Theres a line where a ft tries to hard to mimic a roller. Throw on some gimmicky name market it a lot for sales. I only buy from Isky mainly....Crower makes real good stuff. Maybe for a mild driver Melling & Elgin have been pretty reputable
@@gordocarbo I like Isky stuff and they are top notch but the don't really offer split pattern camshafts for Fords. Everything they offer for them is single pattern. Otherwise I would use them
Haven't had a single issue with Comp Cams stuff in 20+ yrs. Cams rocker arms lifters push rods hydraulic and solids both roller and flats. Lil old 327 up to the 565 now
I like Isky cams. My only gripe with them is they sell single pattern camshafts instead of split duration camshafts. I use Redline assembly lube on mine. I've used a lot of the ole greyish black moly sulfide lube on cams. I don't like the red stuff that Comp sends you which seems to just be nothing more than the red Permatex assembly lube with their name on it.
@@itmazuniga2729 Isky does have good stuff! But pretty much all they offer is single pattern camshafts and Fords prefer dual pattern with more exhaust duration. If Isky would offer that I would use them in a heartbeat.
Their cam lube is th ebest if its still the same as decades ago. No isky has ever failed me either. One I installed and didnt even break it in, timed it real quick and started driving holding up the rpm up that way. No problem!
You’re absolutely right. They’re using roller cam profiles with flat tapper. But be careful with Luntati, they have their own version of the same thing. And if I’m not mistaken, the same guy designed those cams for both companies.
Yes they do have their own version although it’s not as aggressive as the Comp as far as the lobes. This Lunati I have is from 2007 back when they were their own company
@@BlackLabGarage Ah, ok, you should be good then. Being that old, it’s way better quality than anything being sold today. Sure wish I’d hung on to some of my old cams. Who knew we’d be facing these problems just to get a decent camshaft...
@@hvspeed6102 I agree. I even wish I had some of my old Crane Cam Dynamics cams back lol. I had a Crane solid lifter camshaft for a small block that was the old 289 LeMans camshaft. I really wish I had kept that one. It truly was musical sounding
@@martyferguson4999 I know that Lunati is owned by the same group as Comp but they say they are ran separately. I don't quite buy into that but that's what they say..lol.
Big Thx for Showing this cam Rate of Lift lobe Shape Incompatibility with Normally used Springs.. Like you say, that Last Hp Isn't worth the Duribility & Short life cam & Lifter problems !!
It’s really not. Years ago Chevy high performance tested one of the Xtreme energy cams and when they swapped it out for a regular grind Comp cam they got more rpms out of the regular cam before they experienced valve float than they did out of the Xtreme Energy cam!
I have many Comp Cams never had a problem also have used Howards Rattler Cams for SBC also never had a problem I'm a professional ASE Master Tech Engine Builder it makes a horrendous difference when you know what you are doing with over 55 years engine building experience but we're all human and that being said sometimes things go wrong proper brake in proper oil w/correct additives go a long way. And most of all common sense R.Roman ASE Master Tech have a nice day 😁
It doesn't matter how many degrees you have when it's a bad design. Harold Brookshire himself said the ramps are too steep and he worked for Comp and designed the Lunati Voodoo series of cams. The Voodoo's aren't as noisy because when he designed those cams, he slowed the ramps down. I have a Howards cam I am going to install myself and it also has slower ramps than the Xtreme Energy camshaft series from Comp
There has been a lot of stuff on TH-cam and other media trashing Comp cams. Then I see people state I’m now going this brand of cam. Be careful. Comp cams is buys up other companies but still branded as the other companies. When I did a cam change last year Comp had the cam I wanted. I ended up passing. I ended up using an out of production Mopar Performance cam with specs similar specs. The box had an updated label of 2014. The paperwork was 2011. No issues. Valvoline 20w-50 with zinc. Bottle of Lucas Zinc. Ran for 20 minutes 2500 rpm +- . Then ran it again 20 minutes next day. Drove 15 miles to work changed oil. No issues.
You are absolutely right. Years ago before Comp cams their was General Kinetics. I put a GK hydraulic cam in my 340 Cuda that was recommended for super hot street use. The cam lobes started to disappear after 4,000 miles. GK told my speed shop the cam had too severe a ramp rate and actually gave me an updated cam, so they said. That one quit at 4,000 miles as well. I heard GK was bought out by Comp Cams years later. I will not use any cam with accelerated ramp rates for street use, you won't get the mileage you want!
I try telling people that but they don't believe me. There is always a trade off in anything and common sense will tell you accelerated ramps equals accelerated wear. At least two of us agree on it lol.
Grew up in Detriot, General Kinetics was local, and I ran more GK cams than all other brands combined to date, and NEVER had any issues with a single one. This entire video's content is old news and has nothing to do with lobe ramp design, and, the zinc deal dates back to Oakridge Nat Labs testing on diesel bla blq blq, NOTHING NEW. When flat tappet cams were no longer used in production vehicles there was no reason for oils in those engines to use zinc. So much misinformation in this video it's hilarious. I bet not a single poster here has ever spoke with or known a cam designer or any idea any engineering aspect of same. LOL
I got a Comp cam in my small block 327 and haven't had any problems with it , but it's only been in there since 2007 so give me a few more days with it .
I'll chime in on that, I too have one in my 429 and she's a noisy gal. I wanted one with a little bit of lope in it and I got that but I can see my vac gauge bounce quite a bit. The biggest beef is the valve slap. I've checked adjustments a few times on my running motor and it's just too noisy.
You do know that Edelbrock owns most of the camshaft companies. I went to pick up my cams from Lunati and guess what? They are all in the same building, made by the same people
MOst those companies are owned, bought and sold by investment groups no telling who owns who Comp bought out many co's back in the day. Lunati Crane Wolverine/blue racer etc When giant corps take ownership standards go in the toilet. Vic Edelbrock would be rolling in his grave if he knew his kids sold out
Learned something about the different oil pump cam pieces.i will stick that in my bank of knowledge,thanks for that.the last project car i had i went with a comp 268h in a 350 with vortech heads with stiffer springs more for the cam lift because stock springs cut it close at 470 lift.anyways it ran great for about 8 months then with pretty regular daily driving and strip use she went down.wasn't break in because no issues like i said until about 8 months.as much as it was hammered on if it was bad break in it should have went before then.never reved above 5800 rpm.
What kind of oil? Were the valve springs actually matched to the comp cam? Spring installed heights observed? Run at 2500 rpm for half hour during break-in?
Love the show love your insight I want to go get into it I got a 1971 highboy with a 460 and I got a 1968 highboy with the 360 and next year I'll do the same thing and put the 460 in one with some juice where are you take her easy Sean
Comp cams that make a hell of a good camshaft now some engines I've come across were the lifter bore are little off the only cam that may live is a roller cam.
Browsing through old videos of cams online and yeah, Comp and Lunati have dropped a ton of cams off the shelves lately. Unless Lunati is reworking their website there weren't any Ford FE cams at all on there. I wound up with a leftover Comp 255DEH I bought off Amazon for $114 I put in my new 351W and I like it better than the XE250H in the old engine. It no longer makes a thrashing noise but the Comp high energy aluminum rocker arms sure make plenty of noise, but the cam/lifters themselves are quiet. I had that old XE250H reground into a Oregon #182 grind. 266 286 @.006, .206 .220 @.050 on 110 LSA lift is .443 .448" if I remember right. That should fix the noise considering it's an OEM Ford grind other than the 110 LSA LOL
@BlackLabGarage Yeah power and mpg is the same as the xe250h and it has better idle manners in the cold weather as well. I wish I had picked it back in 2013 now that I've run it.
I had a friend with a Racing Shop put a Comp Cams XE "street" Solid Roller on his Cam Doctor computer measuring machine....He told me....WOW! Thats a HARD ACCELERATION on that lobe....Almost as fast as he was using on an Australian customers 400cu/in Pro Stock motor....He said "your going to need a WHOLE LOT of valve spring on that monster!" We used ISKY Tool Room $500/set springs....I use Bullet for my cams these days.
I don't doubt that at all...but you see people on here saying that isn't a problem. I'll always say it is a problem. A contributing problem if nothing else
I never bought comp cams. A friend showed me two installed in two different SBC's back in the 80s. Never found a reason to use them. Crane, Iskendarian, Sig Erson and later Erson, Lunati and havent lost one yet. I had other failures after rebuilds. Seen a fresh 350 start up, stick shift 65 pickup after we hit the freeway never saw under 6500 rpm for 19 miles. Trew number six rod getting off I-40 at Petro. My fault. Never resized the rod after it spun the last time. Won't happen again. Lesson learned.
Sadly of the names you just mentioned Isky is the only one still going. Lunati is in business but they are under the IOP umbrella just the same as Comp is. Last time I looked at Erson they was out of stock on everything so I'm not sure if they are still in business or not.
WE have had excellent service life from Clay Smith Cams. They also grind an couple thou taper then most cam mfrs. They have a wide range of ramp rates as well. Plus a mom and pop store. Thanks
@@Scubasteve22 I haven’t ever used them but I have never heard anything bad about Clay Smith Cams. They probably do have better quality control over their camshafts since they actually grind their own in house rather than someone else grinding them and boxing them up like Comp does.
Yeah, I've got two comp XE hydraulic flat tappet cams. The first one, an XE250H I installed 10 years ago in my 351W, great running cam but the thing sounds like a sick solid lifter at idle no matter the lifter preload. I used the recommended springs when I had the stock smog heads, and once I installed my Edelbrock e street heads the springs that came with those are slightly stiffer than the recommended springs for that cam. I don't think I'll run that cam again just because of the noise. I've got the XE262H in my 390 which I ordered after waiting on the 270H magnum cam on backorder for months. That cam is pretty quiet, at a hot idle if I stick my head under the hood you can hear a slight silent thrash noise if you're listening for it but its way better than the XE250H in terms of noise, which is surprising considering how much heavier the FE valve train is from that 351W. Originally I went looking for like a 265DEH for my old 352 that I wound up yanking out and building the 390 but found they don't grind them anymore either. You can't even get a 260H high energy for a lot of engines anymore.
Unless it’s a custom grind from Comp I don’t think I will be using them anymore. If I have to listen to solid lifter noise then I want solid lifter power with it lol.
90% of cam failures that ive seen usually started because they broke them in with poor oil, dual springs installed, and had to crank the crap out of them before they started. Thats good enough is not an excuse.
Building a engine is a science. One wrong input and it's wrong. Also the LSA vary from manufacturers. You have to give every single aspect of the vehicle and the engine perfectly. Also give the engine what it wants not what you want it to have.
speaking of 460's, im slowly preparing to rebuild mine. what cam would u recommend using for a MILD street 460 motor that is gonna stay under 5000rpm? its going in a 77 lincoln with a C-6 and a 2.50 rear..Just a cruiser mostly.. i plan on using edelbrock heads(95cc), edelbrock intake, 650 carb and straight up timing... HP goal is between 300-400 max so it wont be too crazy on gas
Well the weight of the car and the rear end gear is going to limit your cam selection. Personally I would find something with around 205 duration @ .050 on the intake and around 210 @.050 on the exhaust. You could go slightly bigger but I wouldn't go over 210 and 215 @.050 because of your gear and weight of the car.
No need for the aftermarket heads they'll support more HP in stock form than what you're looking for. Get the right pistons for some compression and his suggested cam and you'll easily be right where you want to be. These big motors are fun good luck to you.
@@softenerguy weight savings and port matching are the only reason i even want aluminum heads. These motors are heavy as hell and every little bit helps. Plus the exhaust port setup on factory heads are VERY restrictive
The valve spring pressure needed to control lifters with those cam profiles have nothing to do with losing lobes. Thats from improper machining of the lobes and of theblofter crowns.
@@BlackLabGarage A comp XE. A small cubic inch engine with a small chamber, decent iron heads, dual plane, and headers, doesnt need excessive duration unless you want the torque peak higher in the RPM range. I dont think duration is important in a street or street /strip combo (small cubic inch) that can breathe without it. 210 @ .050 can give instant power everywhere for 40 bucks at pick and pull and will not stress your valve train.
@@stuartwall8212 Yes...the better the head flows, the smaller the camshaft that is needed to make power. But then again a 289/302 doesn't have enough cubic inches to be real strong off the bottom end so usually you do have to turn them up higher than the stock camshaft will allow. But if a person never plans on hitting the drag strip and just staying on the street, the stock 5.0 camshaft is a great camshaft. The speed density camshaft is even better if you can find one.
I've used Comp before but not the XE camshafts. Never had a problem with their other grinds. But like I said even Butler talked about them being too aggressive on the lobes which would explain why they are so noisy.
I don't remember what year it was but close to 20 years ago I bought the xe285 for my small block mopar ran it for 10 years but I broke it in with very used stock springs and used zinc and phosphorus additive and also had timing set oil pump primed and no thermostat to prevent air lock so when I cranked it fired up immediately ran it at 2000 to 2500 rpm for 20 mins changed oil filter used comps springs that were recommended 995 I think ran it for 10 yrs ever time I changed the oil I added zinc with it the one time I went to change oil didn't have any zinc so I said its broke in I don't need that well it ran about 2tanks of fuel through and I lost a lobe but I knew better but done it anyway all flat tappet engines need the zinc so it was my fault have not lost a cam since but always add zinc and break them in with the weakest springs that will work for lift that xe cam did make noise but not much with that fast rate of lift the right springs are very important bought another one after that just like it because it was a good cam know I'm going to put it in my 410 stroker in a 69 valiant with 4 speed hope I get 10 years out of it never run a flat tappet without zinc again
@@BlackLabGarage Lucas racing zddp TV zinc plus O Reilly's carrys it just got done breaking in another flat tappet today in a 440 but it was mopar performance purple shaft brand new from the 90s I will never run a flat tappet again without the additive
unfortunately comp cams like a lot of other companies is made in China. so sad havent used them in years and so glad. have a shelf full of old cams that are so much better even used
Back in the day Comp augmented their H series with an new HLor HE series designed by Harold Berkshire aka UDHarold later UDHarold designed a line of cams for lunaiti then ultradine and a later series now sold by Howards, Each series became better The Lunati was less noisy than the comp and produced more power. In addition comp used the Chevrolet .842 lifter limitation on all cams where Lunati had different lobes for Ford and Mopar
Yes.... Harold Brookshire was the man when it came to camshafts. I believe he designed some of the lobes for Lunati's Voodoo series which is why they are quieter than the Xtreme Energy cams.
@@BlackLabGarage oops spelled Brookshire wrong (again) Harold came out of the Clay Smith style of Camshaft design, Mike's and Rick's dad from the Ed Winfield philosophy (as was Isky) (Racer Brown was another) The Jones' were selected by GM to redevelop their INDY car profiles where the megabucks were well spent. This can be really appreciated in Mike's Inverse roller profiles but shows in Flat tappet also
@@BlackLabGarage AFIK he did all the original Voodoo series AS you observe the are quieter (less harsh) than the comps, take less HP to drive on a Spintron and make more HP with less spring pressure. Amazing what you could do with an 8 bit Computer (look at the date the HPcalculator was introduced and Isky started using the IBM.. Lots of progress sincee then with many grinders using British software
@@BlackLabGarage Pontiac, Olds, Cad, Buick are not small block Chevies (in so many ways) Harold knew this, I think Crane did to but Comp even if they did sold the same cam grinds... and for Ford and Mopar all marketing
You didnt say what Lunati cam you had? Ive used two in a 460. Ive used a bracket master 2 in the past & i used a 262 voodoo. Both were good cams. I thought i flattened the voodoo but it turned out a lifter collapsed. I have been kinda thinkin about trying a extreme energy cam? They are the dirrect compotition to the voodoo line of cams. Like the thumper line of cams is the competition to Howards Rattler cams. Lunati dousnt make a cam with that design. Were the pryority function of the cam is the sound it makes. When i was talking with lunati alot i was also intersted in there bootlegger cams but they said those cams are very aggressive & very hard on valve train parts as well.
This is an old Hi Energy grind. They are very similar to Comps DEH grinds. This was before all of the Voodoo, Bootlegger, and all those grinds came in. I even ran one of there Street Master grinds years ago in a 460. It had 245 degrees of duration @ .050 with 108 lobe separation. It would talk to you lol
@@jesseduke694 I used a General Kinetics cam in a 460 once. It had 230 or 232 duration @ .050. It was very similar to the Comp 280 Magnum. It did fine. I have no complaints about that cam either.
I don't think its the companies as much as it is the tech. So... some shop somewhere has say 12 cnc machines. They're proud of them. They proved math maps of each prototype and have full confidence in their shiny new objects that can make cams a good 3x faster than 25 years ago. But grabbing the right blanks to load up and pulling up program to match an order... does not dress the stone. Or worse, machines swap duty one day to the next and what was grinding roller cams is put to service flat tappet grinds and somebody forgot to qc the grinding wheel before running a batch. Not that this is what happens, but it could happen - to any shop without operational safeguards. Beyond all that...we have an oil problem: API spec informs of the boundaries of additive packages, but what it does not do is inform anyone of wear protection ability: how much in psi does it take to reach failure point? The astm 8691 appears to fail the hot rod community with its pass/fail of 90 micrometers [0.0035"] wear. That is unacceptable where lobe taper is a small number of slightly over 0.3 degrees - it can't give up that much. So we need better oil. I've found some help regarding finding better wear ratings from 540ratblog.wordpress.com Read it all... its going to take a few cups of coffee.
Yo flinch nice to read your input sounds like all the brain drain going on hasent affected you in a negative way .here's an example of what I mean I just heard yesterday the guy takes his car to the dealership because it has a problem with stalling they put 4 coils and four spark plugs in for $1,700 when he got it back and it stalled again they told him it needs a motor , nice to read that there are some technicians left in this land of video gamers, hats off to you sir
You're not wrong about the noise. They do make more power, but there is always a trade off. Had the same noise issue with a Lunati Voodoo hydraulic flat tappet, which has the more agressive lobe design also. In Comp Cams defense, they do make other less agressive cams.
@@BlackLabGarageWhy do care about something that you're not building? CC will grind you anything from their past or custom lobe catalog. Spending $$ to build an engine while skimping on quality components is false economy.
@@hotrodray6802 What am I not building? What am I skimping on? That engine has Federal Mogul rings, bearings, ARP rod bolts, Melling oil pump, Fel Pro and Victor gaskets, and Silvolite hypereutectic pistons. So what isn't quality?
@@BlackLabGarage I call bs on nothing else but xtreme. Just looked up cams for a 351c the other day. Do what works for you, but I've personally run the xe274h in a 454 big block with great results. Had to break it in for a half hour without inner springs removed. No issues, even removed cam and inspected the lobes and lifter faces. It does sound like a mechanical cam when warmed up, but the quick pattern is how you get superior torque over prior model cams. If you don't use their springs your in the dark unfortunately.
Go look for a Comp 265 DEH for a Ford 460. They no longer have them. For Chevrolets they still have most all of their grinds both old and new but for others that's not the case. I agree that you should always use the springs that the cam manufacturer calls for.@@CK-mf6du
Hey Danny Ray! How is going Brother? Actually when you laid the cams outs, even Stevie Wonder could tell you which one was the Comp cam. Here is what pisses me off about Comp. They have yet to address these quality issues when they should have done a press release to all their vendors promising they are aware and going to fix their problem! But Noooooooo lets just pretend there is no problem and continue to sell this garbage at super premium prices. That is what I call dishonesty Danny, or Corporate greed and piss poor management. Thanks for sharing and having the courage to tell the real truth. Blessings and Cheers from Motown/Dearborn, Home of the Blue Oval.
I was just in Dearborn and Detroit on vacation,,, visited the river rouge assembly plant, the Henry Ford museum and greenfield village,, and ate at the Ford garage delicious food there. Wonderful city
Lol, lift, duration, overlap......all play a part in ramp for specific performance goals. Run the recommended springs, and you will be fine. I have run many comp cams without fail.
Yes I understand that but their lobes are much more aggressive than others which is why they are so noisy. If I'm going to have to listen to solid lifter noise then I want a solid lifter cam and performance. Not hydraulic cam with solid lifter noise lol
Maybe my eyes are fooling me ? I see the comp cam on the left & the lobes look pretty valve spring friendly to me. The Lunati & that stock cam have pretty steep lobes. It seems to me the steep pointy lobes would smack those valves open and drop em down quick on the flip side. The Lunati reminds me of a storage facility I once visited. They had these damned speed bumps that looked just like your Lunati cam lobes. As I drove my 74 F-150 over them, me and my coffee came off the seat about an inch ! Anyway I am building my 460 I got out of a 73 Lincoln. The cylinders were so rusty I had to get it bored .060 over. I just ordered a Comp Xtreme Energy Retrofit Camshafts 34-422-9 ( Hydraulic Roller Tappet, Advertised Duration 270/276, Lift .521/.521, Ford, Big Block 385) I wanted the mildest roller I could find for my 74 F-150. I really wanted a Howards cam to go with my Howards roller lifters but the lift was too high on all of them. I went with Comp and now you got me a bit worried ☹. Seems like right after I slapped down $505 bucks, I hear tons of You Tubers saying Comp sucks. Hopefully its just the flat tappets & not their rollers.
Well that is how you think it would work but it isn't. Notice the lobes look almost like the lobes of a roller camshaft. Rollers have way more aggressive ramps than flat tappets but they can get by with it because they roll over the lobes. Flat tappets don't have that luxury. If you want to see how aggresive those lobes are then watch my next video where I compare those lobes to a Crower camshaft.
Good info, in case i ever build a 460. lol But while we are on the subject anyone have any experience with a type of cam grind for the fe's that take into account the longer travel time through the intake channel to the cyl farthest away from the carb? i dont know all the details but it makes sense to me. i believe it to be a custom grind.
They Comp, has had a bad rep since 90s bout lobes smearing off at 85lbs seat pressure, fuel lobes smearing, to degreeing 360 on middle firing # being up 6° off, never warranty notta, always use oiling problems. While other cam makers always warranty their products. Keep in mind, it's not legal to heat treat metal in US. Very little to none done here
I don’t know what’s going on with Comp Cams! I ordered a cam kit for my 93 Jeep and can’t get a response from them on when it will ship. No response to emails and no one answers at customer center. Tech support and sales answers and are happy to sell you something but can’t giv you any status on previous orders. Don’t buy from Comp!
Well that Pontiac 400 I put the Xtreme Energy cam in was short lived. It sounded like a thrashing machine running😂. I replaced it with a Summit Racing camshaft.
@@cammontreuil7509 That doesn't surprise me. I guess they are like a lot of places now and just want someone to fill the position and could care less about hiring people that take pride in what they do and want to put out a good product.
Cams can and do cause issues. But so often it is the fitment not the cam. So many people seem to be able to f**k it up big time. Rocker arm geometry, pushrod length, lousy lubricant used on lobes and then the biggest,,, they cannot fire the engine and get it run smooth during the 20 min 'running in period' Or they simply want to hear the 'lump' A simple replacement cam will probably live with 75lb on the seat but a performance cam with 120lb will not live. That first 20 min is very important. you can drive the car if you do not have much traffic around. Just not under 2000,, and probably not over say 4000. With 'race cams' you are better bedding the cam with softer springs or removing the inners. This on both hydraulic and sollid lifter cams I have ever used one Comp cam. In an oval track budget class engine and the cam never caused an issue,, the tin rockers however did as the would not handle the seat pressure, in this case 140lb. The owner was told it would happen but he just kept throwing rockers at it. By season end everything was stuffed inc the cam. And then rules changed allowing roller rockers so problem solved,, just. I have never lost a cam, Holdens, Fords, Mopar, Chev 6 & 8. Had them wear out prematurely but never immediatly. 5000 street km or about 6 race meets yes. In part caused by poor lifters, to me a bigger problem than poor cams. And this brand name components. Most lifters as well as cam billets are only sourced from a couple of suppliers. I have seen many OEM cams fail, often quite early. Holden V8s and some Chevs as well. Those cams ofcourse are never run in. And have seen 90% of used rockers that are failures, even at moderate km. Springs too can be an issue. Crane cams generally called for too light a spring. Use 20% stronger gave an extra useable 500 revs. That an industry std F244.
I am big on measuring for pushrod length but its surprising to me how many put engines together and do not measure for proper pushrod length and lifter preload.
I didn't have to replace the Comp but I chose not to risk it. I don't like the Xtreme Energy lobes because of their accelerated ramps. The Lunati is bigger than the Ford cam but yet they have the same lobe. It's the accelerated ramps on the Comp that make it look different.
Like another guy or two here, I don't understand. Just looking at it it seems like the Comp Cams and Lunati both fling the valve open at about the same speed, but the Comp Cams lobes hold it open longer. That cam has a long duration, and a lot of overlap. The Lunati looks like it has shorter duration, and higher lift, hence a faster opening and closing speed. So I don't know what to believe.
Isky has a good product but they only sell single pattern camshafts. That's good for Chevrolets but Ford, Pontiac, and others prefer a split pattern camshaft that has more exhaust duration.
Not for Fords they don't. Or they don't have them listed anyway. Their stock replacement cams for Fords are usually dual pattern but the performance ones they list are single pattern.@@Jay-fb2lv
wow those fords can shed plenty weight from huge oild pump can be lighter design Harmonic balancer design and Aluminum water pump/housing. most of their cams are seigned for romping around on the street with 11o LSA Designs, the copied some of Cranes ideas, but they have few shelf race cams with too much duration , starting at 270 degrees at 0.50 is too much for drag racing. unless all out car, Like the rest they do make custom cams there ,I like Howards designs along with Bullet
I think the most duration I ever ran was on a Comp custom ground solid lifter camshaft and it was 260 intake and 264 exhaust @ .050 with 106 lobe separation. It ran really good in a 11:1 stroker Windsor I had.
Can't tell you how many 'I'll never use Comp Cams again' videos I've seen in the last decade. You'd think people would figure it out by now. They were garbage back in 1980 and Isky even ran ads showcasing their 'quality'. 23 years ago I bought a set of adjustable rockers and 2 had buggered up threads. They made ME pay to send them back for replacements. Never bought anything from them since. Seen people cluelessly swap out their $hit 2 or 3 times wondering why it keeps failing. Try something different, you might get a different result. I will say one thing, they have a hell of a marketing dept. Just like McDonalds.
So you are building a big block performance engine that you want it to run 150,000 miles with zero valve train maintenance. 🤔 You could spend an extra $80 and have the cam nitrided.
Sure...it's nothing uncommon for later model 460's to run 200,000 or more miles with no problems. The low tension metric rings really helped out with that.
@@BlackLabGarage yes....but if someone is racing their engine alot, and drives 1500 miles per year......they are not concerned with making it last 100 years.
It's not the duration, its the ramp. Look at my video comparing the Howards cam to the Comp. They are almost identical yet the Howards has a more gentle rounded lobe
Making more power, and spring pressure and everything you’re babbling about makes zero sense. A cam is a cam. Lift, duration, LSA and icl are what matters. Two cams with the same specs are going to make the same power in the same engine. It’s not magic. It sounds like it’s the guy that installed it and not the manufacturer.
Spring pressure plays a big role in how fast a camshaft can last. Ramp rates play a big role in how fast a cam can last. But no...two cams with similar specs can have different power because of the ramp rates.
@@BlackLabGarage luckily people like Richard holdner have put nonsense from like minds like you to bed by doing hundreds upon hundreds of cam tests. ON A DYNO! You’re rambling incoherent nonsense. You’re stuck in 1970. Running a flat tappet cam…. In 2023. Blaming Comp because you don’t know wtf you’re doing, or talking about.
I liked Lunati back when they was their own company with their own designs. I never had a problem with them back in the day. But now that they are owned by IOP and the lines are blurred between them and Comp I'm going to stay away from them.
I know they are owned by the same parent company IOP but how much blurring of the lines there is I don’t know. The Lunati cam I have here is from many years ago when Lunati was their own company.
@@Sig.40 I ran several Lunati cams back in the day and never had a problem with them. I had hydraulic flat tappet, solid flat tappet, and solid roller Lunati camshafts and never had a problem.
Roller is great but they have their problems also. I’m not scared to run a flat tappet camshaft. Matter of fact my newly rebuilt 460 on the engine stand is getting a Howard’s hydraulic flat tappet camshaft
I like Isky stuff but they mostly only make single pattern cams for Fords. Fords need a dual pattern with more lift and duration on the exhaust side to help out their undersized and convoluted exhaust ports lol
I can understand your concern. But for the most part, if you run the right spring, you should be all right. I run, Amsoil Z rod and my engine, because it still has zinc in it. A few years ago I had a clip and a lifter come flying Elston, the lifter, all the in your collapsed. So I had to pull the intake. Pulled the lifter out and it was literally like brand new. Looked beautiful. So I buy the new lifter and put the. Insides of the new lyft are in the old Lister. And it’s still running no problems. Your biggest issue right now is bad lifters. Once Covid hit we ran out of good. Lifters in the united states. All the Cam companies pull from two sources. Once their supply ran out we got stuff in China. It’s not heat treated properly. They’re melting inside the boards. Grinding right down. So that’s your biggest concern right now.
Well it's not so much that we ran out of good lifters but the companies aren't sourcing good lifters. Hylift Johnson is still in business but I guess sourcing the lifters from them would affect Comps bottom line since they cost more.
First of all, those two cams are WAY different. Duration and lift are not even close to each other. Second, If you understood lobe profiles vs spring pressures you wouldnt be bad mouthing the engineer who designed both of the aftermarket cams youre showing. Thats right, BOTH of them. Go ahead and get a custom ground cam, Im sure somebody can cut you something with no ramp rate so you dont hurt yourself.
Oh I’m sorry…I said they was similar but you’re right. The Comp has .524 lift and the Lunati has .522🙄. I’m glad you’re here with me to verify the cam cards.
Ok, here is what's going on. Their making the cams to wear out faster on purpose so I f you want one to last you will be pushed to the "roller"lifter style Camshafts. In turns means more money for them.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 90 | คู่เอก "ก้องไกล vs แอนตาร์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VugIvOstzRI/mqdefault.jpg)
I ran a xe. 284. In my 428. For 6 years. Put over 800 passed o. It. Pulled it to switch to. Solid. It looked brand new. Broke it in with the 924. Springs. Ended up collapsing a couple of lifter plungers. On a over rev. Did not have a reb limiter at the time. Lifter foots and lobes. Looked brand new. Attention to details. In installation. Is where most people go wrong.
Proper break in, with proper oil, and proper heat cycle. Been using comp for years, solid rollers, hydraulic, flat tappet, never had an issue.
The problem isn’t the cams. It’s the junk ass lifters, no matter what brand or how expensive you go they’re fucking junk.
I've used other Comp cams before. Both solid lift and regular hydraulic grinds and had no problems with them. It was only the Xtreme Energy cam that I used that had problems and for hydraulic flat tappet that is all Comp offers now for Ford engines so I won't use them anymore.
If you knew what you were talking about you would not have included a roller.
@Cam montreuil There is still a break in process for a solid roller cam.
@@cammontreuil7509 That isn't a roller cam. Try again
Edelbrock and Lunati are also owned by Comp, I dont use any Comp made products any longer also no products from Comps other brands
Actually they are all owned by IOP. Edelbrock did buy Comp but then Edelbrock was bought by IOP.
Iop is full of Chinese investors
It is Edelbrock that’s owns these sister companies, edelbrock hopfully will cast or use billet or better metals juring manufacturing process, they should because they own their own foundry , i have been running solid flat mechanical tappers since my teenage years never a problem , pay attention to details and products needed these daus
@@tonydjr.8593 no its comp invest that owns all other companies!
More TH-cam camshaft technology from the guy that builds engines next to his chicken coop. I'm sure Comp Cams is disappointed.
I don't have any chickens...and you're sadly mistaken if you think you have to have a fancy garage to do good work. Some of the worst work and builds I have ever seen come out of nice garages.
@@BlackLabGarage knew a guy that built 400 Pontiac engines in the sand, never seen any fail, from 1981 thru 1992, but the cigarettes killed him.
Comp cams will go down the Drainage if they Continue with Selling crap
You are absolutely right. I got one of the extreme energy cams form my 460. I thought it was just marketing hype. It did make good power but the noise was so bad I thought all the lifters were bad. I replaced it with an Isky. Couldn't be happier.
@@fgpriceinc those ramps being that steep are very hard on the valve train. A few more hp isn’t worth beating the valve train out of it in my opinion
@@BlackLabGarage I agree completely. Who would design such a thing?
@@fgpriceinc people that want roller camshaft power for flat tappet camshaft price keep buying them though
I put a Comp flat tappet hydraulic cam in a 400 Ford last week and broke in the cam on an engine stand for 35 minutes. Seems good so far. I'm pulling the intake to look at the lifters before it goes in the car. I used stock valve springs for break in. The motor had an Edelbrock Performer kit and that cam had 2 bad lifters/lobes. I thought I was pulling out a good working cam glad I took it apart.
BTW good videos, new subscriber 👍
@@softenerguy Don't feel bad, that 360 I pulled had no tick or rattle to it but had a couple of flattened cam lobes when I tore it down. Thank you for you subscription.
To make these flat cams live it must start instantly I'll use about 20° initial advance hit it with either open the throttle and make it fire instantly and take it to 2,000 plus RPM and using Old outer springs only definitely helps and of course putting the right springs after the break in period
@@asbelfernandez3598 Yep. That's how I've done it. Get them lifters spinning and good old sturdy-yet-light solid flat tappets are the way to go.
Update: I pulled the intake and looked at the lifters, so far so good. Motor will now go in the car.
Me personally I like flat solid cams for their reliability , the first one lasted twenty-five years 7000 RPM shift points in a Chevy 355 driven to the track year after year sometimes twice a week with 411 gears and 4000 stall speed the car ran eleven 1 at 120 with iron dart sportsman's 200 s that was a circle track Reed cam , cast crank stock rods with ARP bolts and heavy TRW flat top pistons . Built another small block with a Comp cams solid flat tapet broke the cam in with Old outer springs only drove like that for two weeks then installed recommended springs 7000 + RPM very satisfied with comp cam it does what they say and removes doors off alot of roller camded cars .
I have nothing against solid lifter camshafts. I’ve had a few of them and still have one. You are correct that most of the time a solid flat tappet cam will out perform a hydraulic roller because the weight of the hydraulic roller will cause the valves to float because they are so heavy
@@BlackLabGarage I've been pondering lately if a low lift cam and high ratio rockers would help with valve float with rollers. My reasoning is because the lifters travel less distance in the same amount of time they wouldn't have as much momentum along with the longer rockers would give the springs more leverage to control the lifters. Example would be running a .480 lift with 1.7 rockers equaling .544 total lift vs a .544 lift with 1.5 rockers. I assume the 1.7 set up could use a little lighter spring.
@@nashvilleoutlaw I see what you're saying but I doubt .064 difference would create that much difference in whether it would valve float or not. I could be wrong. It might let it go a few more hundred rpm's before loosing control? Now you have me pondering on it lol
@@BlackLabGarage it's what I do, you're welcome🤣🤣
@@BlackLabGarage I've been putting a lot thought about cams into the 383 I'm putting together. Really wanting to try Vizard's 128 formula for cam selection. Engine displacement picks the LSA, overlap picks the rpm range. What I've pieced together is he measures LSA from the highest point of the lobe where cam manufacturers measure LSA as the center of the open and close events of each lobe and calculate it that way. So I'm looking at about 267/274 duration on a 107LSA with about 42 degrees of overlap for an almost stock sounding sleeper.
You bring a very good point...I bought a "thumpr" cam kit with lifter and double springs the whole nine and for a small block mopar and am frankly scared to fire it
I haven’t looked at the thumpr lobes to see if they have the fast ramps or not.
Me and my brother put a big mutha thumpr in a 360 ended up wiping a lobe a year later but I don't think it was the manufacturer's falt because we had a problem getting the motor started quickly for camshaft break in do too a faulty ignition box which would fire and then stall I believe that was the culprit go ahead and fire that thing up and enjoy it while you can because it seems that they're trying to get rid us and remember everyone muscle cars and imports imports they're all hot rods .
@@asbelfernandez3598 Yeah cranking too long without it firing up wipes the assembly lube off the camshaft. That probably did shorten the life of the camshaft.
@@BlackLabGarage They will blow your torque right out the tailpipe. Just a gimmicky cam with goofy names to sell
LS guys lap it up....plus the stage xxx bs.
WHat happened to cam companies giving every single spec like they used to. Remember the old PAW books
@@gordocarbo I do remember them actually. The first Ford 400 I ever rebuilt over 20 years ago, all the parts came from PAW.
I bought the extreme energy 4x4 for my 350 in my K5 blazer and it ate the cam in the break in period and filled the block full of metal and they said it was my fault and wouldn’t warranty the cam and it’s sitting in the Howard’s cam box that I replaced it with in the shed.
I hear that a lot that it was the customers fault. Never their fault
@@BlackLabGarage Same response when mine failed immediately. Right when that xe series came out
Theres a line where a ft tries to hard to mimic a roller. Throw on some gimmicky name market it a lot for sales.
I only buy from Isky mainly....Crower makes real good stuff. Maybe for a mild driver Melling & Elgin have been pretty reputable
@@gordocarbo I like Isky stuff and they are top notch but the don't really offer split pattern camshafts for Fords. Everything they offer for them is single pattern. Otherwise I would use them
Elgin, Engine Tech and Engine pro are the same also Jegs housebrand...they all work without problems
Haven't had a single issue with Comp Cams stuff in 20+ yrs. Cams rocker arms lifters push rods hydraulic and solids both roller and flats. Lil old 327 up to the 565 now
Now it seems they buy in China an sell crap
I have an Isky hyd flat tappet , and it’s beeen doing well!! I used the Isky moly sulfide lube when I installed it.
I like Isky cams. My only gripe with them is they sell single pattern camshafts instead of split duration camshafts. I use Redline assembly lube on mine. I've used a lot of the ole greyish black moly sulfide lube on cams. I don't like the red stuff that Comp sends you which seems to just be nothing more than the red Permatex assembly lube with their name on it.
second the isky cam they are absolutely great for the average guy
@@itmazuniga2729 Isky does have good stuff! But pretty much all they offer is single pattern camshafts and Fords prefer dual pattern with more exhaust duration. If Isky would offer that I would use them in a heartbeat.
Their cam lube is th ebest if its still the same as decades ago. No isky has ever failed me either. One I installed and didnt even break it in, timed it real quick and started driving holding up the rpm up that way. No problem!
Look for engine tech brand they are cheap but Made to very good standards
You’re absolutely right. They’re using roller cam profiles with flat tapper. But be careful with Luntati, they have their own version of the same thing. And if I’m not mistaken, the same guy designed those cams for both companies.
Yes they do have their own version although it’s not as aggressive as the Comp as far as the lobes. This Lunati I have is from 2007 back when they were their own company
@@BlackLabGarage Ah, ok, you should be good then. Being that old, it’s way better quality than anything being sold today. Sure wish I’d hung on to some of my old cams. Who knew we’d be facing these problems just to get a decent camshaft...
@@hvspeed6102 I agree. I even wish I had some of my old Crane Cam Dynamics cams back lol. I had a Crane solid lifter camshaft for a small block that was the old 289 LeMans camshaft. I really wish I had kept that one. It truly was musical sounding
@@martyferguson4999 I know that Lunati is owned by the same group as Comp but they say they are ran separately. I don't quite buy into that but that's what they say..lol.
Lunati now is just a Comp brand also Edelbrock
Big Thx for Showing this cam Rate of Lift lobe Shape Incompatibility with Normally used Springs.. Like you say, that Last Hp Isn't worth the Duribility & Short life cam & Lifter problems !!
It’s really not. Years ago Chevy high performance tested one of the Xtreme energy cams and when they swapped it out for a regular grind Comp cam they got more rpms out of the regular cam before they experienced valve float than they did out of the Xtreme Energy cam!
I have many Comp Cams never had a problem also have used Howards Rattler Cams for SBC also never had a problem I'm a professional ASE Master Tech Engine Builder it makes a horrendous difference when you know what you are doing with over 55 years engine building experience but we're all human and that being said sometimes things go wrong proper brake in proper oil w/correct additives go a long way. And most of all common sense
R.Roman ASE Master Tech have a nice day 😁
It doesn't matter how many degrees you have when it's a bad design. Harold Brookshire himself said the ramps are too steep and he worked for Comp and designed the Lunati Voodoo series of cams. The Voodoo's aren't as noisy because when he designed those cams, he slowed the ramps down. I have a Howards cam I am going to install myself and it also has slower ramps than the Xtreme Energy camshaft series from Comp
There has been a lot of stuff on TH-cam and other media trashing Comp cams. Then I see people state I’m now going this brand of cam. Be careful. Comp cams is buys up other companies but still branded as the other companies. When I did a cam change last year Comp had the cam I wanted. I ended up passing. I ended up using an out of production Mopar Performance cam with specs similar specs. The box had an updated label of 2014. The paperwork was 2011. No issues. Valvoline 20w-50 with zinc. Bottle of Lucas Zinc. Ran for 20 minutes 2500 rpm +- . Then ran it again 20 minutes next day. Drove 15 miles to work changed oil. No issues.
Buy Elgin and you wont support These Comp guys
good stuff man. I'm actually looking at a Howards for mine right now for the same reasons.
I have never ran a Howards camshaft but I have looked at their catalog. I can say I haven't heard anything bad about them yet.
I’m thinking Howard’s is the way to go
You are absolutely right. Years ago before Comp cams their was General Kinetics. I put a GK hydraulic cam in my 340 Cuda that was recommended for super hot street use. The cam lobes started to disappear after 4,000 miles. GK told my speed shop the cam had too severe a ramp rate and actually gave me an updated cam, so they said. That one quit at 4,000 miles as well. I heard GK was bought out by Comp Cams years later. I will not use any cam with accelerated ramp rates for street use, you won't get the mileage you want!
I try telling people that but they don't believe me. There is always a trade off in anything and common sense will tell you accelerated ramps equals accelerated wear. At least two of us agree on it lol.
at
Grew up in Detriot, General Kinetics was local, and I ran more GK cams than all other brands combined to date, and NEVER had any issues with a single one.
This entire video's content is old news and has nothing to do with lobe ramp design, and, the zinc deal dates back to Oakridge Nat Labs testing on diesel bla blq blq, NOTHING NEW. When flat tappet cams were no longer used in production vehicles there was no reason for oils in those engines to use zinc. So much misinformation in this video it's hilarious. I bet not a single poster here has ever spoke with or known a cam designer or any idea any engineering aspect of same. LOL
Ran xe274h in my 351W. Sounded like a solid flat tappet at idle. Valve train was setup correctly also. Tough on valve train.
They really are but a lot of people don't believe me about that. Like I say there are no free lunches. Accelerated ramps means accelerated wear!
I got a Comp cam in my small block 327 and haven't had any problems with it , but it's only been in there since 2007 so give me a few more days with it .
I hope you don't have any problems with it.
27 years ago I had problems with my comp cam. An Engle custom cam went in.
I'll chime in on that, I too have one in my 429 and she's a noisy gal. I wanted one with a little bit of lope in it and I got that but I can see my vac gauge bounce quite a bit. The biggest beef is the valve slap. I've checked adjustments a few times on my running motor and it's just too noisy.
It's the ramps on the cam being too steep causing it. It causes what is called lifter crash.
You do know that Edelbrock owns most of the camshaft companies.
I went to pick up my cams from Lunati and guess what?
They are all in the same building, made by the same people
I know that IOP owns Edelbrock and all the others.
MOst those companies are owned, bought and sold by investment groups no telling who owns who
Comp bought out many co's back in the day. Lunati Crane Wolverine/blue racer etc
When giant corps take ownership standards go in the toilet. Vic Edelbrock would be rolling in his grave if he knew his kids sold out
Learned something about the different oil pump cam pieces.i will stick that in my bank of knowledge,thanks for that.the last project car i had i went with a comp 268h in a 350 with vortech heads with stiffer springs more for the cam lift because stock springs cut it close at 470 lift.anyways it ran great for about 8 months then with pretty regular daily driving and strip use she went down.wasn't break in because no issues like i said until about 8 months.as much as it was hammered on if it was bad break in it should have went before then.never reved above 5800 rpm.
Yeah a bad break in usually causes the cam to go bad in 15-20 mins.
What kind of oil? Were the valve springs actually matched to the comp cam? Spring installed heights observed? Run at 2500 rpm for half hour during break-in?
Last but not least, did you make sure you had at least .060 clearance between valve guide, valve guide seal, and spring retainer?
Love the show love your insight I want to go get into it I got a 1971 highboy with a 460 and I got a 1968 highboy with the 360 and next year I'll do the same thing and put the 460 in one with some juice where are you take her easy Sean
Its hard to beat a 460 engine. I am in East TN
Comp cams that make a hell of a good camshaft now some engines I've come across were the lifter bore are little off the only cam that may live is a roller cam.
I think they did make a good camshaft, but not so much anymore. I agree with the lifter bores. If they are off no flat tappet camshaft will live
If put in a higher/lift cam,say 500,lift,or more, you have upgrade, to,supported higher lift rockers.
In what engine are you talking about?
Browsing through old videos of cams online and yeah, Comp and Lunati have dropped a ton of cams off the shelves lately. Unless Lunati is reworking their website there weren't any Ford FE cams at all on there. I wound up with a leftover Comp 255DEH I bought off Amazon for $114 I put in my new 351W and I like it better than the XE250H in the old engine. It no longer makes a thrashing noise but the Comp high energy aluminum rocker arms sure make plenty of noise, but the cam/lifters themselves are quiet. I had that old XE250H reground into a Oregon #182 grind. 266 286 @.006, .206 .220 @.050 on 110 LSA lift is .443 .448" if I remember right. That should fix the noise considering it's an OEM Ford grind other than the 110 LSA LOL
The old DEH cams worked good. They were quiet and made good power. That's why it surprised me when Comp discontinued them.
@BlackLabGarage Yeah power and mpg is the same as the xe250h and it has better idle manners in the cold weather as well. I wish I had picked it back in 2013 now that I've run it.
Bullet cams also have all the Ultra Dyne lobes
Yes!!! Designed by Harold Brookshire himself!
I went with a lunati cam for my 460 build. It was the cheapest option at the time
Lunati used to be one of the best.
@@Sig.40 well somebody has to fill the void🤣
I had a friend with a Racing Shop put a Comp Cams XE "street" Solid Roller on his Cam Doctor computer measuring machine....He told me....WOW! Thats a HARD ACCELERATION on that lobe....Almost as fast as he was using on an Australian customers 400cu/in Pro Stock motor....He said "your going to need a WHOLE LOT of valve spring on that monster!" We used ISKY Tool Room $500/set springs....I use Bullet for my cams these days.
I don't doubt that at all...but you see people on here saying that isn't a problem. I'll always say it is a problem. A contributing problem if nothing else
This is cool , comparo of those cams with the Big mutha thumpr would be a sight. I use several cam companies but use Melling lifters.
As soon as my new 460 camshaft comes in we will be comparing it to the Comp cam.
I never bought comp cams. A friend showed me two installed in two different SBC's back in the 80s. Never found a reason to use them. Crane, Iskendarian, Sig Erson and later Erson, Lunati and havent lost one yet. I had other failures after rebuilds. Seen a fresh 350 start up, stick shift 65 pickup after we hit the freeway never saw under 6500 rpm for 19 miles. Trew number six rod getting off I-40 at Petro. My fault. Never resized the rod after it spun the last time. Won't happen again. Lesson learned.
Sadly of the names you just mentioned Isky is the only one still going. Lunati is in business but they are under the IOP umbrella just the same as Comp is. Last time I looked at Erson they was out of stock on everything so I'm not sure if they are still in business or not.
Elgin is also fine
WE have had excellent service life from Clay Smith Cams. They also grind an couple thou taper then most cam mfrs. They have a wide range of ramp rates as well. Plus a mom and pop store. Thanks
@@Scubasteve22 I haven’t ever used them but I have never heard anything bad about Clay Smith Cams. They probably do have better quality control over their camshafts since they actually grind their own in house rather than someone else grinding them and boxing them up like Comp does.
Yeah, I've got two comp XE hydraulic flat tappet cams. The first one, an XE250H I installed 10 years ago in my 351W, great running cam but the thing sounds like a sick solid lifter at idle no matter the lifter preload. I used the recommended springs when I had the stock smog heads, and once I installed my Edelbrock e street heads the springs that came with those are slightly stiffer than the recommended springs for that cam. I don't think I'll run that cam again just because of the noise. I've got the XE262H in my 390 which I ordered after waiting on the 270H magnum cam on backorder for months. That cam is pretty quiet, at a hot idle if I stick my head under the hood you can hear a slight silent thrash noise if you're listening for it but its way better than the XE250H in terms of noise, which is surprising considering how much heavier the FE valve train is from that 351W. Originally I went looking for like a 265DEH for my old 352 that I wound up yanking out and building the 390 but found they don't grind them anymore either. You can't even get a 260H high energy for a lot of engines anymore.
Unless it’s a custom grind from Comp I don’t think I will be using them anymore. If I have to listen to solid lifter noise then I want solid lifter power with it lol.
@@BlackLabGarage The xe250h is louder than the comp 294s solid flat tappet in my dad's 445 stroker with .017" cold lash and .022" hot lash.
@@MattsRageFitGarage wow...that's saying a lot!
I have seen pushrods that were different lenghts slightly right out of the box.
@@robertclymer6948 I haven't ran into that problem yet but I can totally believe that it's happening. I'm sure my turn to get some is coming...lol.
90% of cam failures that ive seen usually started because they broke them in with poor oil, dual springs installed, and had to crank the crap out of them before they started.
Thats good enough is not an excuse.
Totally agree with you ! Improper procedures and crapy products is to blame 90 percent of time
I like Isky, selection is limited but the quality is top notch.
Yes they are and they do grind their own cams
Have had good luck with Crower the last 30 yrs, aint changin brands anytime soon. Never been a comp fan
I’ve had a couple of Crower cams. I still have a solid lifter Crower in a 302 Ford here. I can’t say anything bad about them at all.
Crower solid roller and severe duty lifters are hard to beat.
Building a engine is a science. One wrong input and it's wrong. Also the LSA vary from manufacturers. You have to give every single aspect of the vehicle and the engine perfectly. Also give the engine what it wants not what you want it to have.
I agree. It's all about having a matching combination.
speaking of 460's, im slowly preparing to rebuild mine. what cam would u recommend using for a MILD street 460 motor that is gonna stay under 5000rpm? its going in a 77 lincoln with a C-6 and a 2.50 rear..Just a cruiser mostly.. i plan on using edelbrock heads(95cc), edelbrock intake, 650 carb and straight up timing... HP goal is between 300-400 max so it wont be too crazy on gas
Well the weight of the car and the rear end gear is going to limit your cam selection. Personally I would find something with around 205 duration @ .050 on the intake and around 210 @.050 on the exhaust. You could go slightly bigger but I wouldn't go over 210 and 215 @.050 because of your gear and weight of the car.
No need for the aftermarket heads they'll support more HP in stock form than what you're looking for. Get the right pistons for some compression and his suggested cam and you'll easily be right where you want to be. These big motors are fun good luck to you.
@@softenerguy I agree with that although the aluminum heads would make more power and make it a whole lot lighter on the front end lol
@@softenerguy weight savings and port matching are the only reason i even want aluminum heads. These motors are heavy as hell and every little bit helps. Plus the exhaust port setup on factory heads are VERY restrictive
@@katkiller50 I agree. But the mild cam you want to run won't be affected by the exhaust port. Less weight is always a bonus👍
The valve spring pressure needed to control lifters with those cam profiles have nothing to do with losing lobes. Thats from improper machining of the lobes and of theblofter crowns.
Ultradyne fixed the issue with the high rate ramps in about 1990
Harold Brookshire was the man
That thing looks like my roller lifter cam....are you shure that is for flat tapit lifters...just asking .....
It sure is!
This video re enforces my love for my big block Chevy engines.
Don’t think it’s a Ford Chevy problem
@@elainestamper3873 I think you missed my point.
I would re-use a Ford roller cam in my 5.0 before one of those. I think the modifications should be done to the heads, intake, and exhaust.
Before using what?
@@BlackLabGarage A comp XE. A small cubic inch engine with a small chamber, decent iron heads, dual plane, and headers, doesnt need excessive duration unless you want the torque peak higher in the RPM range. I dont think duration is important in a street or street /strip combo (small cubic inch) that can breathe without it. 210 @ .050 can give instant power everywhere for 40 bucks at pick and pull and will not stress your valve train.
@@stuartwall8212 Yes...the better the head flows, the smaller the camshaft that is needed to make power. But then again a 289/302 doesn't have enough cubic inches to be real strong off the bottom end so usually you do have to turn them up higher than the stock camshaft will allow. But if a person never plans on hitting the drag strip and just staying on the street, the stock 5.0 camshaft is a great camshaft. The speed density camshaft is even better if you can find one.
I've never wrecked a comp cams, just throwing that out there. Plenty of xe cams used. Always thoroughly follow break-in instructions.
I've used Comp before but not the XE camshafts. Never had a problem with their other grinds. But like I said even Butler talked about them being too aggressive on the lobes which would explain why they are so noisy.
I don't remember what year it was but close to 20 years ago I bought the xe285 for my small block mopar ran it for 10 years but I broke it in with very used stock springs and used zinc and phosphorus additive and also had timing set oil pump primed and no thermostat to prevent air lock so when I cranked it fired up immediately ran it at 2000 to 2500 rpm for 20 mins changed oil filter used comps springs that were recommended 995 I think ran it for 10 yrs ever time I changed the oil I added zinc with it the one time I went to change oil didn't have any zinc so I said its broke in I don't need that well it ran about 2tanks of fuel through and I lost a lobe but I knew better but done it anyway all flat tappet engines need the zinc so it was my fault have not lost a cam since but always add zinc and break them in with the weakest springs that will work for lift that xe cam did make noise but not much with that fast rate of lift the right springs are very important bought another one after that just like it because it was a good cam know I'm going to put it in my 410 stroker in a 69 valiant with 4 speed hope I get 10 years out of it never run a flat tappet without zinc again
What additive do you use?
@@BlackLabGarage Lucas racing zddp TV zinc plus O Reilly's carrys it just got done breaking in another flat tappet today in a 440 but it was mopar performance purple shaft brand new from the 90s I will never run a flat tappet again without the additive
@@raysimon1368 I have used the Lucas additive and I had no problems with it. It's a bit pricy these days though
But cheaper than a new cam and lifters!
unfortunately comp cams like a lot of other companies is made in China. so sad havent used them in years and so glad. have a shelf full of old cams that are so much better even used
I don't have a shelf full but I have a few cams on the shelf. There are several cams I wish I would of held on to but didn't.
They buy Chinese Codes and lifters, i think
Cam cores come from turkey not china
Back in the day Comp augmented their H series with an new HLor HE series designed by Harold Berkshire aka UDHarold later UDHarold designed a line of cams for lunaiti then ultradine and a later series now sold by Howards,
Each series became better The Lunati was less noisy than the comp and produced more power. In addition comp used the Chevrolet .842 lifter limitation on all cams where Lunati had different lobes for Ford and Mopar
Yes.... Harold Brookshire was the man when it came to camshafts. I believe he designed some of the lobes for Lunati's Voodoo series which is why they are quieter than the Xtreme Energy cams.
@@BlackLabGarage oops spelled Brookshire wrong (again) Harold came out of the Clay Smith style of Camshaft design, Mike's and Rick's dad from the Ed Winfield philosophy (as was Isky) (Racer Brown was another) The Jones' were selected by GM to redevelop their INDY car profiles where the megabucks were well spent. This can be really appreciated in Mike's Inverse roller profiles but shows in Flat tappet also
@@BlackLabGarage AFIK he did all the original Voodoo series AS you observe the are quieter (less harsh) than the comps, take less HP to drive on a Spintron and make more HP with less spring pressure. Amazing what you could do with an 8 bit Computer (look at the date the HPcalculator was introduced and Isky started using the IBM.. Lots of progress sincee then with many grinders using British software
@@jmflournoy386 I know Harolds Ultradyne cams had a very big name in Pontiac engines!
@@BlackLabGarage Pontiac, Olds, Cad, Buick are not small block Chevies (in so many ways) Harold knew this, I think Crane did to but Comp even if they did sold the same cam grinds... and for Ford and Mopar all marketing
You didnt say what Lunati cam you had? Ive used two in a 460. Ive used a bracket master 2 in the past & i used a 262 voodoo. Both were good cams. I thought i flattened the voodoo but it turned out a lifter collapsed. I have been kinda thinkin about trying a extreme energy cam? They are the dirrect compotition to the voodoo line of cams. Like the thumper line of cams is the competition to Howards Rattler cams. Lunati dousnt make a cam with that design. Were the pryority function of the cam is the sound it makes. When i was talking with lunati alot i was also intersted in there bootlegger cams but they said those cams are very aggressive & very hard on valve train parts as well.
Oh ya, ive also used comp magnum cams in a 460 as well. And a Erson cam once.
This is an old Hi Energy grind. They are very similar to Comps DEH grinds. This was before all of the Voodoo, Bootlegger, and all those grinds came in. I even ran one of there Street Master grinds years ago in a 460. It had 245 degrees of duration @ .050 with 108 lobe separation. It would talk to you lol
@@jesseduke694 I used a General Kinetics cam in a 460 once. It had 230 or 232 duration @ .050. It was very similar to the Comp 280 Magnum. It did fine. I have no complaints about that cam either.
Glad I went with a howards cams also went with their roller conversion
I've not heard anything bad about Howards yet. They seem to be good stuff and stand behind it
I don't think its the companies as much as it is the tech. So... some shop somewhere has say 12 cnc machines. They're proud of them. They proved math maps of each prototype and have full confidence in their shiny new objects that can make cams a good 3x faster than 25 years ago. But grabbing the right blanks to load up and pulling up program to match an order... does not dress the stone. Or worse, machines swap duty one day to the next and what was grinding roller cams is put to service flat tappet grinds and somebody forgot to qc the grinding wheel before running a batch. Not that this is what happens, but it could happen - to any shop without operational safeguards. Beyond all that...we have an oil problem: API spec informs of the boundaries of additive packages, but what it does not do is inform anyone of wear protection ability: how much in psi does it take to reach failure point? The astm 8691 appears to fail the hot rod community with its pass/fail of 90 micrometers [0.0035"] wear. That is unacceptable where lobe taper is a small number of slightly over 0.3 degrees - it can't give up that much. So we need better oil. I've found some help regarding finding better wear ratings from 540ratblog.wordpress.com Read it all... its going to take a few cups of coffee.
I'll check it out. Thanks!
Yo flinch nice to read your input sounds like all the brain drain going on hasent affected you in a negative way .here's an example of what I mean I just heard yesterday the guy takes his car to the dealership because it has a problem with stalling they put 4 coils and four spark plugs in for $1,700 when he got it back and it stalled again they told him it needs a motor , nice to read that there are some technicians left in this land of video gamers, hats off to you sir
Here in Germany we buy and use any can with NOS oil we can get Our hands on
Thanks to the internet we have learned some engine builders have found poor machining of flat tappets, little or no crown.
Nice engine building room
@@bigblockpop you like that? I have to say it is roomy and well lit lol
You're not wrong about the noise. They do make more power, but there is always a trade off. Had the same noise issue with a Lunati Voodoo hydraulic flat tappet, which has the more agressive lobe design also. In Comp Cams defense, they do make other less agressive cams.
For Chevrolets….not for much else. Anything else you get an Xtreme Energy or nothing
@@BlackLabGarageWhy do care about something that you're not building?
CC will grind you anything from their past or custom lobe catalog.
Spending $$ to build an engine while skimping on quality components is false economy.
@@hotrodray6802 What am I not building? What am I skimping on? That engine has Federal Mogul rings, bearings, ARP rod bolts, Melling oil pump, Fel Pro and Victor gaskets, and Silvolite hypereutectic pistons. So what isn't quality?
@@BlackLabGarage I call bs on nothing else but xtreme. Just looked up cams for a 351c the other day. Do what works for you, but I've personally run the xe274h in a 454 big block with great results. Had to break it in for a half hour without inner springs removed. No issues, even removed cam and inspected the lobes and lifter faces. It does sound like a mechanical cam when warmed up, but the quick pattern is how you get superior torque over prior model cams. If you don't use their springs your in the dark unfortunately.
Go look for a Comp 265 DEH for a Ford 460. They no longer have them. For Chevrolets they still have most all of their grinds both old and new but for others that's not the case. I agree that you should always use the springs that the cam manufacturer calls for.@@CK-mf6du
We like to put a light spring on for a new cam break in.
That is a good idea to do that or at the very least remove the inner springs anyway if they have inner springs.
@@BlackLabGarage thank you thats exactly what I meant. Its a step in the right direction.
Hey Danny Ray! How is going Brother? Actually when you laid the cams outs, even Stevie Wonder could tell you which one was the Comp cam. Here is what pisses me off about Comp. They have yet to address these quality issues when they should have done a press release to all their vendors promising they are aware and going to fix their problem! But Noooooooo lets just pretend there is no problem and continue to sell this garbage at super premium prices. That is what I call dishonesty Danny, or Corporate greed and piss poor management. Thanks for sharing and having the courage to tell the real truth. Blessings and Cheers from Motown/Dearborn, Home of the Blue Oval.
I was just in Dearborn and Detroit on vacation,,, visited the river rouge assembly plant, the Henry Ford museum and greenfield village,, and ate at the Ford garage delicious food there. Wonderful city
They kind of remind me of Fram filters now. Big name with good marketing and a poor product.
@@dougdier3104 Right Doug! It is a great way to spend the day! So much to see and look at. Henry Ford was an awesome machinist too.
Man i have nos comp tow for 200 now i got check that. But it spring n time chaine n lifter combo set
Lol, lift, duration, overlap......all play a part in ramp for specific performance goals. Run the recommended springs, and you will be fine. I have run many comp cams without fail.
Yes I understand that but their lobes are much more aggressive than others which is why they are so noisy. If I'm going to have to listen to solid lifter noise then I want a solid lifter cam and performance. Not hydraulic cam with solid lifter noise lol
Maybe my eyes are fooling me ? I see the comp cam on the left & the lobes look pretty valve spring friendly to me. The Lunati & that stock cam have pretty steep lobes. It seems to me the steep pointy lobes would smack those valves open and drop em down quick on the flip side. The Lunati reminds me of a storage facility I once visited. They had these damned speed bumps that looked just like your Lunati cam lobes. As I drove my 74 F-150 over them, me and my coffee came off the seat about an inch ! Anyway I am building my 460 I got out of a 73 Lincoln. The cylinders were so rusty I had to get it bored .060 over. I just ordered a Comp Xtreme Energy Retrofit Camshafts 34-422-9 ( Hydraulic Roller Tappet, Advertised Duration 270/276, Lift .521/.521, Ford, Big Block 385) I wanted the mildest roller I could find for my 74 F-150. I really wanted a Howards cam to go with my Howards roller lifters but the lift was too high on all of them. I went with Comp and now you got me a bit worried ☹. Seems like right after I slapped down $505 bucks, I hear tons of You Tubers saying Comp sucks. Hopefully its just the flat tappets & not their rollers.
Well that is how you think it would work but it isn't. Notice the lobes look almost like the lobes of a roller camshaft. Rollers have way more aggressive ramps than flat tappets but they can get by with it because they roll over the lobes. Flat tappets don't have that luxury. If you want to see how aggresive those lobes are then watch my next video where I compare those lobes to a Crower camshaft.
To bad they don't make a rev kit for the 460, sounds like that would be the ticket for that situation to be able to run that cam?
I’m not sure if they offer those for hydraulic flat tappet cams or not? All the ones I have seen were for solid lifter camshafts.
Comp Cams use to be the Walmart of cams, today they have become the dollar general of cams.
It’s a bummer!
I don't know that I would even call them the Dollar General of camshafts now. More like Dollar Tree quality with Bed, Bath, and Beyond prices!😂
Good info, in case i ever build a 460. lol But while we are on the subject anyone have any experience with a type of cam grind for the fe's that take into account the longer travel time through the intake channel to the cyl farthest away from the carb? i dont know all the details but it makes sense to me. i believe it to be a custom grind.
I've never heard of that before.
Well same problem with different length runners on BBC Try a dual carb or Tunnel ram or old nascar FORD racers
They Comp, has had a bad rep since 90s bout lobes smearing off at 85lbs seat pressure, fuel lobes smearing, to degreeing 360 on middle firing # being up 6° off, never warranty notta, always use oiling problems. While other cam makers always warranty their products. Keep in mind, it's not legal to heat treat metal in US. Very little to none done here
kind of ironic that the Xtreme energy line also came out in the 90's
@@Sig.40 That's usually how it goes when a corporation buys a company out unfortunately.
I just had a comp hydraulic roller in a 355 sbc break in half . Destroyed the engine . Bad casting.
That's one thing I hate about Comp hydraulic rollers is that they use cast cores instead of steel billet cores. I hate to hear that happened to you
I don’t know what’s going on with Comp Cams! I ordered a cam kit for my 93 Jeep and can’t get a response from them on when it will ship. No response to emails and no one answers at customer center. Tech support and sales answers and are happy to sell you something but can’t giv you any status on previous orders. Don’t buy from Comp!
Unless they want to custom grind me something, they won’t be getting any of my business
Me too. Ordered from summit and they said that it would be shipped from comp cams.its been 4 months now.
Did you ever run a cam with accelerated ramps and have a failure ? If so , what happened ? Have a comp cam extreme energy in box still .
Well that Pontiac 400 I put the Xtreme Energy cam in was short lived. It sounded like a thrashing machine running😂. I replaced it with a Summit Racing camshaft.
Comp are mass produced. And the cams have a factored in failure rate.
Just doing a Google search shows this.
Comp doesn't grind their off the shelf camshafts. I have a video on this
@@BlackLabGarage I've seen the video. And the people doing the work look like one step above the homeless.
Certainly not skilled tech's.
@@cammontreuil7509 That doesn't surprise me. I guess they are like a lot of places now and just want someone to fill the position and could care less about hiring people that take pride in what they do and want to put out a good product.
@@BlackLabGarage Delta Cam takes great pride.
@@cammontreuil7509 I will have to look into them
Cams can and do cause issues. But so often it is the fitment not the cam. So many people seem to be able to f**k it up big time. Rocker arm geometry, pushrod length, lousy lubricant used on lobes and then the biggest,,, they cannot fire the engine and get it run smooth during the 20 min 'running in period' Or they simply want to hear the 'lump'
A simple replacement cam will probably live with 75lb on the seat but a performance cam with 120lb will not live. That first 20 min is very important. you can drive the car if you do not have much traffic around. Just not under 2000,, and probably not over say 4000. With 'race cams' you are better bedding the cam with softer springs or removing the inners. This on both hydraulic and sollid lifter cams
I have ever used one Comp cam. In an oval track budget class engine and the cam never caused an issue,, the tin rockers however did as the would not handle the seat pressure, in this case 140lb. The owner was told it would happen but he just kept throwing rockers at it. By season end everything was stuffed inc the cam. And then rules changed allowing roller rockers so problem solved,, just.
I have never lost a cam, Holdens, Fords, Mopar, Chev 6 & 8. Had them wear out prematurely but never immediatly. 5000 street km or about 6 race meets yes. In part caused by poor lifters, to me a bigger problem than poor cams. And this brand name components. Most lifters as well as cam billets are only sourced from a couple of suppliers.
I have seen many OEM cams fail, often quite early. Holden V8s and some Chevs as well. Those cams ofcourse are never run in. And have seen 90% of used rockers that are failures, even at moderate km.
Springs too can be an issue. Crane cams generally called for too light a spring. Use 20% stronger gave an extra useable 500 revs. That an industry std F244.
I am big on measuring for pushrod length but its surprising to me how many put engines together and do not measure for proper pushrod length and lifter preload.
9 out of 10 guys are running electric pumps
Yes they are. I've had no problems with mechanical pumps as long as I have bought a quality pump.
Why are comp cams so expensive compared to other manufacturers
Paying for their name and advertising mostly.
Mainly because they can,. Name one other manufacturer that has the amount of billets available that they do ? ( Not better just available)
Bad that you got to Replace that Comp cam... That Comp cam should have lots More 0.050" Duration spec than that Lunati.....You Sure about that ??
I didn't have to replace the Comp but I chose not to risk it. I don't like the Xtreme Energy lobes because of their accelerated ramps. The Lunati is bigger than the Ford cam but yet they have the same lobe. It's the accelerated ramps on the Comp that make it look different.
Like another guy or two here, I don't understand. Just looking at it it seems like the Comp Cams and Lunati both fling the valve open at about the same speed, but the Comp Cams lobes hold it open longer. That cam has a long duration, and a lot of overlap. The Lunati looks like it has shorter duration, and higher lift, hence a faster opening and closing speed. So I don't know what to believe.
Look at my video where I compare the Comp to a Howards and they are almost identical grinds but the Howards has slower ramps.
Isky is my cam of choice.
Isky has a good product but they only sell single pattern camshafts. That's good for Chevrolets but Ford, Pontiac, and others prefer a split pattern camshaft that has more exhaust duration.
@@BlackLabGarage. They sell tons of dual pattern cams.
Not for Fords they don't. Or they don't have them listed anyway. Their stock replacement cams for Fords are usually dual pattern but the performance ones they list are single pattern.@@Jay-fb2lv
Just call Brent Lykins and get one of his cams.
I'll probably use Bullet Cams next time I buy one
Then they not running the right springs
wow those fords can shed plenty weight from huge oild pump can be lighter design Harmonic balancer design and Aluminum water pump/housing. most of their cams are seigned for romping around on the street with 11o LSA Designs, the copied some of Cranes ideas, but they have few shelf race cams with too much duration , starting at 270 degrees at 0.50 is too much for drag racing. unless all out car, Like the rest they do make custom cams there ,I like Howards designs along with Bullet
I think the most duration I ever ran was on a Comp custom ground solid lifter camshaft and it was 260 intake and 264 exhaust @ .050 with 106 lobe separation. It ran really good in a 11:1 stroker Windsor I had.
Can't tell you how many 'I'll never use Comp Cams again' videos I've seen in the last decade. You'd think people would figure it out by now. They were garbage back in 1980 and Isky even ran ads showcasing their 'quality'. 23 years ago I bought a set of adjustable rockers and 2 had buggered up threads. They made ME pay to send them back for replacements. Never bought anything from them since. Seen people cluelessly swap out their $hit 2 or 3 times wondering why it keeps failing. Try something different, you might get a different result. I will say one thing, they have a hell of a marketing dept. Just like McDonalds.
I always compared their marketing to Fram filters marketing lol
So you are building a big block performance engine that you want it to run 150,000 miles with zero valve train maintenance. 🤔
You could spend an extra $80 and have the cam nitrided.
Sure...it's nothing uncommon for later model 460's to run 200,000 or more miles with no problems. The low tension metric rings really helped out with that.
@@BlackLabGarage yes....but if someone is racing their engine alot, and drives 1500 miles per year......they are not concerned with making it last 100 years.
Run Oil Extreme in Your Engine Oil.....end of problem.
@@gj91471 I’ve never heard of that product?
I was wondering why they were so dam noisy lol.
It’s those square lobes causing it lol
The comp cam has more duration
It's not the duration, its the ramp. Look at my video comparing the Howards cam to the Comp. They are almost identical yet the Howards has a more gentle rounded lobe
Making more power, and spring pressure and everything you’re babbling about makes zero sense. A cam is a cam. Lift, duration, LSA and icl are what matters. Two cams with the same specs are going to make the same power in the same engine.
It’s not magic.
It sounds like it’s the guy that installed it and not the manufacturer.
Spring pressure plays a big role in how fast a camshaft can last. Ramp rates play a big role in how fast a cam can last. But no...two cams with similar specs can have different power because of the ramp rates.
@@BlackLabGarage luckily people like Richard holdner have put nonsense from like minds like you to bed by doing hundreds upon hundreds of cam tests. ON A DYNO! You’re rambling incoherent nonsense.
You’re stuck in 1970. Running a flat tappet cam…. In 2023. Blaming Comp because you don’t know wtf you’re doing, or talking about.
Stop buying junk maybe go roller but please find a better company than comp or lunati that actually makes their own cams
I liked Lunati back when they was their own company with their own designs. I never had a problem with them back in the day. But now that they are owned by IOP and the lines are blurred between them and Comp I'm going to stay away from them.
why not talk to howards cams
I did actually. I have another video posted on here and I went with a Howards cam that is very similar to the Comp but has gentler ramps on the lobes.
Lunati makes comp cams
I know they are owned by the same parent company IOP but how much blurring of the lines there is I don’t know. The Lunati cam I have here is from many years ago when Lunati was their own company.
@@Sig.40 I ran several Lunati cams back in the day and never had a problem with them. I had hydraulic flat tappet, solid flat tappet, and solid roller Lunati camshafts and never had a problem.
Please
Roller cam
Roller is great but they have their problems also. I’m not scared to run a flat tappet camshaft. Matter of fact my newly rebuilt 460 on the engine stand is getting a Howard’s hydraulic flat tappet camshaft
I tried to make it to the end but u r to damn slow latter
Bye Felicia
Comp Made in China...
I have to say their camshafts don't say made in the USA like Howards and some others do
ISKY
I like Isky stuff but they mostly only make single pattern cams for Fords. Fords need a dual pattern with more lift and duration on the exhaust side to help out their undersized and convoluted exhaust ports lol
I can understand your concern. But for the most part, if you run the right spring, you should be all right. I run, Amsoil Z rod and my engine, because it still has zinc in it. A few years ago I had a clip and a lifter come flying Elston, the lifter, all the in your collapsed. So I had to pull the intake. Pulled the lifter out and it was literally like brand new. Looked beautiful. So I buy the new lifter and put the. Insides of the new lyft are in the old Lister. And it’s still running no problems. Your biggest issue right now is bad lifters. Once Covid hit we ran out of good. Lifters in the united states. All the Cam companies pull from two sources. Once their supply ran out we got stuff in China. It’s not heat treated properly. They’re melting inside the boards. Grinding right down. So that’s your biggest concern right now.
Well it's not so much that we ran out of good lifters but the companies aren't sourcing good lifters. Hylift Johnson is still in business but I guess sourcing the lifters from them would affect Comps bottom line since they cost more.
free country run what you want
Hey I said if you want to run them then go ahead and run them
First of all, those two cams are WAY different. Duration and lift are not even close to each other. Second, If you understood lobe profiles vs spring pressures you wouldnt be bad mouthing the engineer who designed both of the aftermarket cams youre showing. Thats right, BOTH of them. Go ahead and get a custom ground cam, Im sure somebody can cut you something with no ramp rate so you dont hurt yourself.
Oh I’m sorry…I said they was similar but you’re right. The Comp has .524 lift and the Lunati has .522🙄. I’m glad you’re here with me to verify the cam cards.
They might have the same designer now but considering this Lunati is from 2007 that’s when Lunati was it’s own company and had their own people.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ok, here is what's going on. Their making the cams to wear out faster on purpose so I f you want one to last you will be pushed to the "roller"lifter style Camshafts. In turns means more money for them.
Exactly and the government wants to erase any hotrod culture