Just dropping by to deliver some spacing options/technique that I've been playing around with. Thought they might be helpful to Marth players. 1. Instant dash dance/dash pivot??? - Done by canceling a backward initial dash into an initial dash in the direction you want to go. You will move slightly forward from your original position assuming you don't continue running. Running can increase how far you go (the idea is to remove as much of the distance that an initial dash covers by compensating with an initial dash in the opposite direction) 2. Dashwalking - Can be performed either via C-stick method or flicking down and then rolling back to the forward position during a dash/run (can be combined with the option listed above). This tech allows you to seamlessly transition into a walk from a dash. 3. Diagonal inputs for tilts (works best if tap jump is off) - This is mainly for quickly backpedaling while still throwing out tilts facing the opponent's direction. Unlike with ftilt, it's difficult to cancel a back dash into a forward-facing dtilt or uptilt using the C-stick, as the angle needed to do this on the C-stick is unforgivingly specific. This results in having to wait for the initial dash to fully before before turning around and then performing the tilt, which is too slow and can make Marth's backward spacing game on the ground seem weak. This can be fixed by holding a diagonal direction based on the tilt you want to perform and then pressing attack. 4. More precise air drift - Holding a diagonal angle on the stick while jumping allows you to more precisely adjust your drift and initial velocity of your jump. Dashing into a jump adds momentum to your jump even if your stick is neutral while jumping. Holding far back as Marth jumps resets his horizontal momentum in the air to around zero, so think of dashing as something that shifts the angle of his drift by 90 degrees. Because you can't fully drift back out of a forward dash, spacing backwards will require you to cancel your dash with a back dash or RAR/slingshot. Dashwalking can also help with this.
Marth is the truth and also the coolest swordie ever, no contest. I feel there is a community wide appreciation for marth in ultimate being like a fallen angel. I'm a Lucina main but I always love Marth first
What a monumental episode from the series! Its so cool that you got to meet Leo as well, and represent a character you're passionate for. I hope you had fun at crown :)
Tuesday, for a channel as small and unknown as yours, your content has brought me so much joy and entertainment. It's really high quality and I can tell you are pouring everything into it. Keep going brother 🔥 your gonna get way bigger I can feel it lol
I'm so glad you made this video. I have been playing Marth for a 2 years, but only got competitive within the last 8 months. Marth is a great character, I mean at LEAST A tier. His B tier placement on the "official" tier list made my head spin. His tippers aren't that hard to land and his sours give him a lot of combo routes Lucina does not get. His match-up chart is also very good as he performs well vs. meta characters such as G&W, Kazuya, Roy, and Aegis. In order to prove this I started going to locals and I finally made top 5 at one of them, going mainly Marth. It was the first time I did not get sent straight to losers after the first set or two. I was so satisfied with my performance, although I made some big mistakes. I nearly made top 4 but I made a mis-input dash attack and lost to a Diddy Kong (I was so angry at myself lol). Marth is 100% a top 30 character and I am not pretending like I agree with anyone who says he sucks, anymore.
Wasn't your username Agent Spider or something back when I used to write long comments on TH-cam ? I'm not sure I talked to you before. It could be a shame if I didn't, as you seemed to be one of the few people who were open-minded and who had a good attitude here. I'm a Lucina main who's passionate about her like you are with Marth. I also played him for around a year. Here is what I think about these characters now : I believe top 30 is not necessary doing Marth justice. These last months, I ended up seeing Lucina as a great character once again. I can see her being between top 5 and top 15, I can see her being better than Roy, etc. As for Marth, in my opinion, he could be better than her. I think Marth is one of these characters who get better and better the more his player is. If, for example, MKLeo's Marth was on the level of Sparg0's Cloud, Marth > Lucina wouldn't be an uncommon opinion at all. The main argument people use against Marth is his lack of consistency, but Ignaize placed 49th at Genesis 8 (if I remember right. Might have not been this exact tournament, but I'm pretty sure it was a Genesis with around 2000 or 3000 attendees ; you can look it up if you want to) going solo Marth and losing only to VoiD and Fatality, proving my point about the character (he can be as good as his player allows him to be, meaning all it would take to elevate Marth would be a consistent player who'd be more noticeable than Ignaize, such as any american/canadian/mexican top player). Marth's kill power shouldn't be ignored considering all his other good attributes. If a player can make him about as consistent as Lucina while closing the majority of opponents' stocks earlier, then playing Lucina could become hard to justify. Now, I personally wouldn't retry to play Marth seriously as I don't have the patience to do so, dislike how his sour hits feel more than I like to connect his tippers and as I'm satisfied enough of my Lucina (not to mention I'm more of a " getting in opponents' face " type of player), but I don't believe people who rate Marth above Lucina are necessarily delusional, and I respect their dedication to him. Also, congratulation on your tournament placements. I hope you can keep refining your blade and improve. It's great that you don't let folks disrespect Marth, and more importantly, that you don't let them sway your opinion about him anymore. I don't comment much here now as I grew tired and bored of people online and as I disliked the toxicity I developped in this environment, but your passion moved me enough to write
@@georgesbouchet7430es, I am Agent_Spyder! I'm glad you made this comment. Initially when someone replies to me about Marth, people argue with me about why "Marth actually sucks." I'm so glad you're comment is actually positive and in support of Marth. It's very insightful as well! You know your stuff. By top 30, I meant that he is top 30 minimum. He can definitely be top tier with how much potential he has. Even now, I'm still learning more about him and he may actually be much better than I thought. He does well in soooo many match-ups, including vital ones (He does well vs. Aegis, Game & Watch, Falco, Cloud, Kazuya, Roy, Wolf, and Ryu, characters that are very popular at high-top level). This alone makes him worth playing at least as a secondary. Thanks for congratulating me! I love playing in locals and I was so happy about finally placing in top 8. Now nobody can call me a scrub lol.
@@Spyder-MarthClassic bandwagoning. But that's to be expected from the bright minds of this community, I guess... ESAM claimed " Marth sucks " and " Pikachu is the best character in the game " like what, four years ago ? And people still preach this baldy's words despite him being continuously proven wrong... Anyway, shouldn't be harsh but I can be pretty cynical for better or worse lol. Oh, I see. I do agree. I thought about how many characters are better than Lucina after I wrote to you. I realized that I viewed her as top 18... unless I take edge guarding into consideration. Let's say ProtoBanham derusted himself and got better at edge guarding to the point he would gimp most of his opponents whenever they are off-stage (besides characters who are hard to gimp like say, Palutena or Pikachu), Lucina would be top 6 for me. But something like this didn't happen yet. So if we now focus about the maximum rank Marth could be, I could also see him being top 6 (and if so, Lucina top 7). Still a matter of potential. I also agree about Marth's matchups. Though I could see Marth having a harder time than Lucina against characters like the Aegis, I could also see him faring better than Lucina against characters like Kazuya or Mr. Game & Watch. And speaking of secondary, if I could use him as mine, I would be elated for that reason. The only character I think the optimised Lucina I imagine would really lose to is Shulk (I just couldn't see how to beat him reliably even then, as it's kinda like fighting yourself but with cheats, better range and ledge trapping, not to mention his ridiculous kill power and the fact that he's one of the few characters who can actually try to edge guard Lucina without much fear), but I don't think Marth lose to him. Lastly, I'm happy for you too ! And well, I do believe that people can still call you a scrub because no matter what you do in this life, good, mid or bad, there is always someone trying to put you down, but what's important is the fact that now, even if someone call you this, you know they're wrong so you can stop caring.
Don’t up b Mario arials out of shield. Other than his down air and fair all of his other arials are -3 at worst and your up b comes out frame 5 so it is literally impossible to punish if he buffers roll which he did
I think he is still worse because Marth's spacing is a double edged sword. Anyone can learn it to use it against him and this makes him prone to being predictable and easier to counter. While he might have some match ups he is better in then Lucina... she can still get those hits. So the end result is Marth is better when exactly? He is better when you're winning but if you're able to win with him why not Lucina? Lucina who can safely use a wider range of stuff without a penalty. Marth is only better when his tippers are too easy at which point he becomes a better Lucina and Lucina becomes worthless. Being weaker then Lucina means his tipper is balanced for casual play which is the healthiest of two options.
While I can see where you're coming from I do believe that landing tippers as Marth is not as hard as people make it out to be. His tippers got buffed to be very forgiving and even the sour spots on certain moves such as up air can combo into sweet spots. He's not strictly better than Lucina but I don't believe Lucina is strictly better than Marth either. The reward you get for landing tippers is huge. A tipper F-Tilt from center stage can just kill someone or setup am edge guard whereas Lucina would have to settle for ledge trapping.
Marcina has been my main since 2019 and while Marth is good, Lucina is just better in almost every way except ledge trapping.Slingshot benefits both of them equally and while tippers can get you early BS kills, 85% of the time you are going to need to rack up 25-40% more damage than if you were playing Lucina. Maybe if Marth’s down tilt set up tech chase situations as relatable as Lucina I could see the argument since it would set up into perfect tipper range, but it doesn’t and is extremely inconsistent.
I have yet to play Lucina yet so I am definitely biased but I do think that because Marth's tilt game is so good that is one of the main reasons to play him over Lucina. Tipper F-Tilt is very reliable and hits like a smash attack while having the risk of a tilt. Up-Tilt also has auto spacing to get tipper for you on platforms. I do agree that Lucina's Down-Tilt is better but for the other tilts I have to give it to Marth.
I decided to come back to this video to address one major pet peeve I have: Marth mains *never* travel. I hate how Marth mains are always stuck in their home areas for whatever reason. If the good Marths travel more often, they can gain more experience and get even better, which further proves how good Marth is. Sadly traveling is expensive and most Marth mains just don't have the time or money to travel such distances. The Marth players that CAN travel ended up dropping Marth for some other character (Leo dropped him for Joker, picked him back up, then dropped him for Aegis very quickly despite doing well with him. Mr. E surprisingly dropped Marth which was very sad to me. Rizeasu hardly uses Marth anymore for Byleth, and he was one of the best). It really is a shame.
A fellow Melee Marth main, nice and glad you can stick with him. I wasn't able to keep him in future games For 2 reasons: 1. My muscle memory for Melee was too strong that I would constantly whiff in later games. I just never had enough time to overcome the muscle memory from playing Melee since I played waaaay too much Melee. 2. Marth no longer has a monopoly on who I'd want to main like it was back in Melee (with Link as a secondary). - Sephiroth basically being a replacement for Marth for me as he's kind of an updated version of being the guy that outranges almost everyone in the roster with long disjointed tippers with style, which was the whole reason why I picked Marth in Melee. I also loved Sephiroth outside of smash unlike Marth. Even all way back when in Melee when 3rd party characters didn't exist (Still shocked he's in the game!) - Ridley feels like hybrid between Marth and Ganondorf. Both characters I've spent a ton of time in (even though Ganondorf is mostly casuals). Also a bit of a Metroid fan, and I have a hard time resisting things that are dragon themed. Those are just 2 of the 11 characters I've locked myself down with for a month to each character to attempt to narrow stuff down to a main, and these 2 directly mess with how much I want to play Marth since they feel similar to Marth but fit my style more. Never mind the fact that all other swordies have a case to be made to be made to play over Marth, but it's very hard to decide whether I prefer Marth or not. At least it's easy to say I prefer Marth over Lucina and Chrom because the tipper mechanic is extremely addicting. That said: Earlier today I had a Marth ditto since me and a friend were picking random for fun and it gave us both Marth. Made me really miss playing the character since he felt so fun (However, made me feel absolutely horrible I couldn't land a single spike though. I used to get those consistently with ease back in Melee). Always love seeing Marth, he is somewhat an uncommon pick in Ultimate in my experience. When I play someone else using Marth it gives my brain the "What? Someone else is playing a character that only I play? How is this possible?" kind of feeling. No where near as much as when I see a good Meta Knight or Lucario, but he's one of the very few characters that does that for me. 6:38 Out of curiosity, what your criteria is for brain, heart and soul? Kinda feel like trying to slot characters I play into those categories for fun = )
My criteria for brain, heart, and soul is as follows. Brain: Playing them feels cerebral and involves a lot of decision making. I'm playing at my best when I'm conscious of why I'm making plays. Heart: Playing them gets my heart pumping. I'm playing at my best when I can get the momentum and hold onto it. Soul: This character feels like it was made for me. When I'm playing at my best I'm playing in a way that no other person in the world could copy.
@@TuesdayTastic Interesting, with that criteria I'd probably go with: Brain: Snake is the one that initially comes to mind since he pretty much feels like playing chess in smash, and I do love me a good deal of chess! Stuff at multiple locations on the map you have to remember and think ahead for while changing that plan based on what the opponent does, with an emphasis on knowing when to trade with the opponent. Honorable mentions to the Links (especially BOTW Link), (dark) Samus, Mii Gunner (I use 1332), Olimar, and Duck Hunt. Heart: Pichu for constantly keeping my heart rate up the entire time. Lucario if I want the strongest bursts of adrenaline due to how hard it can be to get high aura against a good player. Sonic feels like an in-between version of them. They are 3 of the 11 I'm deciding between to main right now so it's hard to pick, but with an emphasis on the category, I gotta go with Lucario since nothing is more intense than high aura. Honorable mentions to Fox and Inkling though. Since Fox is just fast, and something about Inkling forces me to always go into try-hard mode. Soul: Sephiroth fits this the most. Just on paper he combines a lot of what I love from other characters and puts it into one character. Long time nostalgia for a character since Melee that seemed impossible to get in has got to be mentioned as well. Then picking him up super naturally, and seeing other people struggle when they play him also is a big motivator to keep playing him. Though there's a strong case for Joker, since it feels like someone took a gameplay moveset straight out of my brain, then added the gun mechanic and Arsene to it. Yet another strong case for Ridley, since he takes what I love about Marth and Ganondorf and combines it into one character, and adds a little bit of his own uniqueness. The other character I've been wanting since Melee because I love dragons and things themed around fear. My Ridley has a reputation among my friends.
I've had a character crisis since the first time I played Smash. Everyone's so fun and unique, but even though I've played a ton of Nintendo titles, I have no emotional attachment to anyone on the roster. So for a long time, like actually since the Smash4 3DS days, I mained Falco. And that stayed true till Sora came out. And then, I played Bayonetta 1, 2 and 3 all in quick succession. I fell in love with Bayonetta as a character. Too bad I don't like Bayo's playstyle, so I guess I main Sora now. I barely have an attachment to him, Kingdom Hearts was one of the first games I ever played, so. But I also really like his style. I still love Falco, obviously, but I haven't played him in so long, he feels so weird to play now.
I appreciate this video, I've been saying this for a while. people just need to admit it's a skill issue and just grind. And Correct mentality is the key to succeeding. I am married and making content later on so don't want to focus as much on Ultimate but am Confident I can make top 20 PGR with solo Marth if I actually cared to compete, since I'd travel to everything lol. But like you said if you had focused on that set you'd have beaten the Young Link bro; Marth requires focus, situation awareness and timing. I spoke with Zain at shine and althought different characters, the principals about his neutral game helped mine significantly. So yeah Marth requires you to put your nose to the grind stone. Imo he's top 15-10 if optimized properly and the best FE in the game next to Roy. Roy is just easier spacing wise because it's easier to pressure as someone that fast
I'm loving the series, but seriously, never put another battle as the battle background, my eyes were spinning trying to comprehend what was happening there 🤣🤣
@@TuesdayTastic you're doing great, but I'm curious on how you put them there, is that just some modding or are you using Hanenbow because of how much green the stage has?
Have you tried Greninja or Joker yet? I've picked up most of the characters in this game at this point, it's one of the more rewarding ways to learn matchups and mechanics for sure. I'll always be a Greninja main, but I enjoy swordies as a whole, one of the complete sets I've tried if I categorize the cast.
I haven't played either of those characters yet but Joker in particular is someone I am looking forward to play as. He's strong, cool, and just looks fun.
@TuesdayTastic He has my favorite combo game, and is the coolest character imo. Hopefully you have a good time with him, I'll say he takes more work than most characters in the game.
Marth has the potential to be very good but the thing that people who vouch for him ignore is the massive issue of consistency. In a tournament setting, you are going to be put up against many different opponents who will test you in many different situations and you want your character to not only be able to deal with those situations but to be able to deal with them every time. Even if Marth can kill at 4 0%, it's not enough if he can only do it 50% of the time. That's why he's no more than a low mid-tier, same as Pichu in my eyes because it happens far too often that you will put Marth in a position where you count on him to succeed only for him to fail where other characters wouldn't due to inconsistent factors beyond your control. This problem is exacerbated over the course of long tournament runs where the consistency, or inconsistency, of your character is pushed to its limit, and in that environment, less consistent characters like Marth just can't keep up.
So explain how Ignaize keeps getting consistent placements with Marth? He hasn't had one super bad tournament placement as of late. 48th at Genesis 8 (outplacing many world ranked players), 17th at Wavedash 2023, many local tournament victories against notable talent, I can go on. He doesn't win every single time but that has little to do with Marth and more to do with him. Marth isn't that inconsistent. His tippers never change or shift randomly. While he does face different opponents of many shapes and sizes, you can still consistently land tippers vs. them if you practice against them. One problem I noticed with many Marth players is that they always lab combos against similar sized characters. When I practice, I always switch it up every day. Some times I practice playing against small characters, then heavies, then tall heavies, tall lightweights, midweights... etc. It has helped so much and now I can land tippers against anyone pretty consistently. Labbing against different characters is super underlooked but super essential. Another problem is that many Marth mains do not go for kill confirms but stray tipper hits for kills. While you certainly can get stray tipper hits for kills, learning kill confirms makes your Marth waaaaaaay better. He has so many that work against every character and that is super underutilized.
The rule is Marth is quite literally consistent. He has zero RnG with consistent hitboxes. It's just a skill issue. And ultimate is a lazy mans game. Hence cloud, aegis and game and watch being at the top.@@ibechuu9695
Roy is cool too played him not too long ago and while he may not be nearly as precise as Marth, there's still a lot of depth in his kit that makes him fun to play. And if you're not playing at your best you can still swing like a madman and do well lol.
So much of this video is inaccurate. Marth is good, but he's not better than Lucina. Gimr also isn't the person who discovered Slingshot. He named it and publicized it, but a LOT of players have been using it since launch, like Roy mains.
like ur videos man but at least for me the greenscreen stuff you do at the end of most of them makes me kinda sick. like seeing two smash games going on at once is a little disorienting
@@TuesdayTastic True, they aren't really that bad (I think Roy's are much more out of character) but they are far from being as iconic as the japanese ones.
5:30 why the fuck is the Roy playing it safe? Also in my experience; no, Marth isn't good; only in Online, a reason he's not picked all that often in a tournament setting that's not online. Marth is great for spacing with his sword but an actual aggressive, fast and in your face opponent is going to mess up Marth. The problem with Marth is an actual aggressive opponent can screw with your hit boxes, causing it where getting too close to your opponent ruins which hit box is going to hit on your opponent. Yes Marth is good against a large part of the cast of characters, that are slower and or less aggressive than him. However; this is coming from a Zelda/ Roy main, the main pain in my ass as a Roy main and Zelda one has been Lucina, Marth only was a pain when I was playing too safe.
Marth is cool, satisfying, but he's absolutely not a good character. I'm sorry, even with these spacing tools he's just not consistent enough to be considered a great choice where Lucina with the same moveset can give you still decent combos and consistency with kills. Marth's sour spots takes priority in the game over his tipper hitbox wise. On top level play, one can easily play around with this concept and ruin his meta. Lucina far outclasses him, along with the rest of the sword fighters in the game that outranges him. The exception with one's supposed success with Marth, doesn't make the rule.
Also, Marth does not have a better ground game than Lucina, it is effectively impossible to hit tipper when trying to engage with the opponent, u only realisticly hit tipper once you have set up.for it or when edge guarding which is actually pretty surprising. Idk why, but I always hit tipper when edge guarding.
Just dropping by to deliver some spacing options/technique that I've been playing around with. Thought they might be helpful to Marth players.
1. Instant dash dance/dash pivot??? - Done by canceling a backward initial dash into an initial dash in the direction you want to go. You will move slightly forward from your original position assuming you don't continue running. Running can increase how far you go (the idea is to remove as much of the distance that an initial dash covers by compensating with an initial dash in the opposite direction)
2. Dashwalking - Can be performed either via C-stick method or flicking down and then rolling back to the forward position during a dash/run (can be combined with the option listed above). This tech allows you to seamlessly transition into a walk from a dash.
3. Diagonal inputs for tilts (works best if tap jump is off) - This is mainly for quickly backpedaling while still throwing out tilts facing the opponent's direction. Unlike with ftilt, it's difficult to cancel a back dash into a forward-facing dtilt or uptilt using the C-stick, as the angle needed to do this on the C-stick is unforgivingly specific. This results in having to wait for the initial dash to fully before before turning around and then performing the tilt, which is too slow and can make Marth's backward spacing game on the ground seem weak. This can be fixed by holding a diagonal direction based on the tilt you want to perform and then pressing attack.
4. More precise air drift - Holding a diagonal angle on the stick while jumping allows you to more precisely adjust your drift and initial velocity of your jump. Dashing into a jump adds momentum to your jump even if your stick is neutral while jumping. Holding far back as Marth jumps resets his horizontal momentum in the air to around zero, so think of dashing as something that shifts the angle of his drift by 90 degrees. Because you can't fully drift back out of a forward dash, spacing backwards will require you to cancel your dash with a back dash or RAR/slingshot. Dashwalking can also help with this.
The true reason Marth is better is bc his tipper sound effects are way better than Lucina's noodle sword
Marth is the truth and also the coolest swordie ever, no contest. I feel there is a community wide appreciation for marth in ultimate being like a fallen angel. I'm a Lucina main but I always love Marth first
One of the most fun characters in the game
Marth feels like comfort food at this point in the series; he was my homie through most of WoL until I u locked my mains, The Belmonts.
Well I have good news for you, Richter is on the next poll if you want to see me play as him next!
@@TuesdayTastic More of a Simon guy, but I'll take some Richter!
What a monumental episode from the series! Its so cool that you got to meet Leo as well, and represent a character you're passionate for. I hope you had fun at crown :)
Tuesday, for a channel as small and unknown as yours, your content has brought me so much joy and entertainment. It's really high quality and I can tell you are pouring everything into it. Keep going brother 🔥 your gonna get way bigger I can feel it lol
I'm so glad you made this video. I have been playing Marth for a 2 years, but only got competitive within the last 8 months.
Marth is a great character, I mean at LEAST A tier. His B tier placement on the "official" tier list made my head spin. His tippers aren't that hard to land and his sours give him a lot of combo routes Lucina does not get. His match-up chart is also very good as he performs well vs. meta characters such as G&W, Kazuya, Roy, and Aegis. In order to prove this I started going to locals and I finally made top 5 at one of them, going mainly Marth. It was the first time I did not get sent straight to losers after the first set or two. I was so satisfied with my performance, although I made some big mistakes. I nearly made top 4 but I made a mis-input dash attack and lost to a Diddy Kong (I was so angry at myself lol).
Marth is 100% a top 30 character and I am not pretending like I agree with anyone who says he sucks, anymore.
Wasn't your username Agent Spider or something back when I used to write long comments on TH-cam ? I'm not sure I talked to you before. It could be a shame if I didn't, as you seemed to be one of the few people who were open-minded and who had a good attitude here.
I'm a Lucina main who's passionate about her like you are with Marth. I also played him for around a year. Here is what I think about these characters now :
I believe top 30 is not necessary doing Marth justice. These last months, I ended up seeing Lucina as a great character once again. I can see her being between top 5 and top 15, I can see her being better than Roy, etc. As for Marth, in my opinion, he could be better than her. I think Marth is one of these characters who get better and better the more his player is. If, for example, MKLeo's Marth was on the level of Sparg0's Cloud, Marth > Lucina wouldn't be an uncommon opinion at all. The main argument people use against Marth is his lack of consistency, but Ignaize placed 49th at Genesis 8 (if I remember right. Might have not been this exact tournament, but I'm pretty sure it was a Genesis with around 2000 or 3000 attendees ; you can look it up if you want to) going solo Marth and losing only to VoiD and Fatality, proving my point about the character (he can be as good as his player allows him to be, meaning all it would take to elevate Marth would be a consistent player who'd be more noticeable than Ignaize, such as any american/canadian/mexican top player).
Marth's kill power shouldn't be ignored considering all his other good attributes. If a player can make him about as consistent as Lucina while closing the majority of opponents' stocks earlier, then playing Lucina could become hard to justify. Now, I personally wouldn't retry to play Marth seriously as I don't have the patience to do so, dislike how his sour hits feel more than I like to connect his tippers and as I'm satisfied enough of my Lucina (not to mention I'm more of a " getting in opponents' face " type of player), but I don't believe people who rate Marth above Lucina are necessarily delusional, and I respect their dedication to him.
Also, congratulation on your tournament placements. I hope you can keep refining your blade and improve. It's great that you don't let folks disrespect Marth, and more importantly, that you don't let them sway your opinion about him anymore. I don't comment much here now as I grew tired and bored of people online and as I disliked the toxicity I developped in this environment, but your passion moved me enough to write
@@georgesbouchet7430es, I am Agent_Spyder! I'm glad you made this comment. Initially when someone replies to me about Marth, people argue with me about why "Marth actually sucks." I'm so glad you're comment is actually positive and in support of Marth. It's very insightful as well! You know your stuff.
By top 30, I meant that he is top 30 minimum. He can definitely be top tier with how much potential he has. Even now, I'm still learning more about him and he may actually be much better than I thought. He does well in soooo many match-ups, including vital ones (He does well vs. Aegis, Game & Watch, Falco, Cloud, Kazuya, Roy, Wolf, and Ryu, characters that are very popular at high-top level). This alone makes him worth playing at least as a secondary.
Thanks for congratulating me! I love playing in locals and I was so happy about finally placing in top 8. Now nobody can call me a scrub lol.
@@Spyder-MarthClassic bandwagoning. But that's to be expected from the bright minds of this community, I guess... ESAM claimed " Marth sucks " and " Pikachu is the best character in the game " like what, four years ago ? And people still preach this baldy's words despite him being continuously proven wrong...
Anyway, shouldn't be harsh but I can be pretty cynical for better or worse lol.
Oh, I see. I do agree. I thought about how many characters are better than Lucina after I wrote to you. I realized that I viewed her as top 18... unless I take edge guarding into consideration. Let's say ProtoBanham derusted himself and got better at edge guarding to the point he would gimp most of his opponents whenever they are off-stage (besides characters who are hard to gimp like say, Palutena or Pikachu), Lucina would be top 6 for me. But something like this didn't happen yet. So if we now focus about the maximum rank Marth could be, I could also see him being top 6 (and if so, Lucina top 7). Still a matter of potential.
I also agree about Marth's matchups. Though I could see Marth having a harder time than Lucina against characters like the Aegis, I could also see him faring better than Lucina against characters like Kazuya or Mr. Game & Watch. And speaking of secondary, if I could use him as mine, I would be elated for that reason. The only character I think the optimised Lucina I imagine would really lose to is Shulk (I just couldn't see how to beat him reliably even then, as it's kinda like fighting yourself but with cheats, better range and ledge trapping, not to mention his ridiculous kill power and the fact that he's one of the few characters who can actually try to edge guard Lucina without much fear), but I don't think Marth lose to him.
Lastly, I'm happy for you too ! And well, I do believe that people can still call you a scrub because no matter what you do in this life, good, mid or bad, there is always someone trying to put you down, but what's important is the fact that now, even if someone call you this, you know they're wrong so you can stop caring.
@@georgesbouchet7430Yessir! Team Marth all the way! Really love the chat. Thanks again!
Go see a psychiatrist
Sheesh...I realized I hadn't watched your videos for a minute. Didn't know that was 6 months. Glad you're going strong!
Thanks! I've gotta keep making videos if I want to beat smash 6 coming out lol
Don’t up b Mario arials out of shield. Other than his down air and fair all of his other arials are -3 at worst and your up b comes out frame 5 so it is literally impossible to punish if he buffers roll which he did
Every Tuesday morning I wake up and immediately see if you have made a video, your content makes me feel happy.
I think he is still worse because Marth's spacing is a double edged sword.
Anyone can learn it to use it against him and this makes him prone to being predictable and easier to counter. While he might have some match ups he is better in then Lucina... she can still get those hits. So the end result is Marth is better when exactly?
He is better when you're winning but if you're able to win with him why not Lucina? Lucina who can safely use a wider range of stuff without a penalty. Marth is only better when his tippers are too easy at which point he becomes a better Lucina and Lucina becomes worthless.
Being weaker then Lucina means his tipper is balanced for casual play which is the healthiest of two options.
While I can see where you're coming from I do believe that landing tippers as Marth is not as hard as people make it out to be. His tippers got buffed to be very forgiving and even the sour spots on certain moves such as up air can combo into sweet spots.
He's not strictly better than Lucina but I don't believe Lucina is strictly better than Marth either. The reward you get for landing tippers is huge. A tipper F-Tilt from center stage can just kill someone or setup am edge guard whereas Lucina would have to settle for ledge trapping.
I think it's matchup dependent. No one has really explored the character enough currently. Lucina is kinda already figured out.
@@Healer0079aThis.
Marcina has been my main since 2019 and while Marth is good, Lucina is just better in almost every way except ledge trapping.Slingshot benefits both of them equally and while tippers can get you early BS kills, 85% of the time you are going to need to rack up 25-40% more damage than if you were playing Lucina. Maybe if Marth’s down tilt set up tech chase situations as relatable as Lucina I could see the argument since it would set up into perfect tipper range, but it doesn’t and is extremely inconsistent.
I have yet to play Lucina yet so I am definitely biased but I do think that because Marth's tilt game is so good that is one of the main reasons to play him over Lucina. Tipper F-Tilt is very reliable and hits like a smash attack while having the risk of a tilt. Up-Tilt also has auto spacing to get tipper for you on platforms. I do agree that Lucina's Down-Tilt is better but for the other tilts I have to give it to Marth.
I decided to come back to this video to address one major pet peeve I have: Marth mains *never* travel. I hate how Marth mains are always stuck in their home areas for whatever reason. If the good Marths travel more often, they can gain more experience and get even better, which further proves how good Marth is. Sadly traveling is expensive and most Marth mains just don't have the time or money to travel such distances. The Marth players that CAN travel ended up dropping Marth for some other character (Leo dropped him for Joker, picked him back up, then dropped him for Aegis very quickly despite doing well with him. Mr. E surprisingly dropped Marth which was very sad to me. Rizeasu hardly uses Marth anymore for Byleth, and he was one of the best). It really is a shame.
Hey, just was looking for vids on SSBU Marth bc i wanted to know what he's like in it. I think i'm gonna go and watch this series now :D
Happy to hear that! Hope you stick around for the next 70 characters haha
@@TuesdayTastic can't wait till you start maining characters from smash 64 because you couldn't choose anyone from ultimate
I never stopped playing Marth day 1 since ultimate came out no cap. It took a long time till i started winning alot with him
The buffs mattered a lot. He was not a good character for a long time.
A fellow Melee Marth main, nice and glad you can stick with him. I wasn't able to keep him in future games For 2 reasons:
1. My muscle memory for Melee was too strong that I would constantly whiff in later games. I just never had enough time to overcome the muscle memory from playing Melee since I played waaaay too much Melee.
2. Marth no longer has a monopoly on who I'd want to main like it was back in Melee (with Link as a secondary).
- Sephiroth basically being a replacement for Marth for me as he's kind of an updated version of being the guy that outranges almost everyone in the roster with long disjointed tippers with style, which was the whole reason why I picked Marth in Melee. I also loved Sephiroth outside of smash unlike Marth. Even all way back when in Melee when 3rd party characters didn't exist (Still shocked he's in the game!)
- Ridley feels like hybrid between Marth and Ganondorf. Both characters I've spent a ton of time in (even though Ganondorf is mostly casuals). Also a bit of a Metroid fan, and I have a hard time resisting things that are dragon themed.
Those are just 2 of the 11 characters I've locked myself down with for a month to each character to attempt to narrow stuff down to a main, and these 2 directly mess with how much I want to play Marth since they feel similar to Marth but fit my style more. Never mind the fact that all other swordies have a case to be made to be made to play over Marth, but it's very hard to decide whether I prefer Marth or not. At least it's easy to say I prefer Marth over Lucina and Chrom because the tipper mechanic is extremely addicting.
That said:
Earlier today I had a Marth ditto since me and a friend were picking random for fun and it gave us both Marth. Made me really miss playing the character since he felt so fun (However, made me feel absolutely horrible I couldn't land a single spike though. I used to get those consistently with ease back in Melee).
Always love seeing Marth, he is somewhat an uncommon pick in Ultimate in my experience. When I play someone else using Marth it gives my brain the "What? Someone else is playing a character that only I play? How is this possible?" kind of feeling. No where near as much as when I see a good Meta Knight or Lucario, but he's one of the very few characters that does that for me.
6:38 Out of curiosity, what your criteria is for brain, heart and soul? Kinda feel like trying to slot characters I play into those categories for fun = )
My criteria for brain, heart, and soul is as follows.
Brain: Playing them feels cerebral and involves a lot of decision making. I'm playing at my best when I'm conscious of why I'm making plays.
Heart: Playing them gets my heart pumping. I'm playing at my best when I can get the momentum and hold onto it.
Soul: This character feels like it was made for me. When I'm playing at my best I'm playing in a way that no other person in the world could copy.
@@TuesdayTastic Interesting, with that criteria I'd probably go with:
Brain: Snake is the one that initially comes to mind since he pretty much feels like playing chess in smash, and I do love me a good deal of chess! Stuff at multiple locations on the map you have to remember and think ahead for while changing that plan based on what the opponent does, with an emphasis on knowing when to trade with the opponent.
Honorable mentions to the Links (especially BOTW Link), (dark) Samus, Mii Gunner (I use 1332), Olimar, and Duck Hunt.
Heart: Pichu for constantly keeping my heart rate up the entire time. Lucario if I want the strongest bursts of adrenaline due to how hard it can be to get high aura against a good player. Sonic feels like an in-between version of them.
They are 3 of the 11 I'm deciding between to main right now so it's hard to pick, but with an emphasis on the category, I gotta go with Lucario since nothing is more intense than high aura.
Honorable mentions to Fox and Inkling though. Since Fox is just fast, and something about Inkling forces me to always go into try-hard mode.
Soul: Sephiroth fits this the most. Just on paper he combines a lot of what I love from other characters and puts it into one character. Long time nostalgia for a character since Melee that seemed impossible to get in has got to be mentioned as well. Then picking him up super naturally, and seeing other people struggle when they play him also is a big motivator to keep playing him.
Though there's a strong case for Joker, since it feels like someone took a gameplay moveset straight out of my brain, then added the gun mechanic and Arsene to it.
Yet another strong case for Ridley, since he takes what I love about Marth and Ganondorf and combines it into one character, and adds a little bit of his own uniqueness. The other character I've been wanting since Melee because I love dragons and things themed around fear. My Ridley has a reputation among my friends.
Elusive SSBU phantom hit at 3:46
4:33 Kuya Kyle! I know him! He's from my scene!
That's awesome! What region are you from?
i’m just now starting to get into smash (ultimate) and i just can’t seem to put marth down. he just feels right to me.
Marth is too much fun. Landing a tipper F-Smash is a drug.
I've had a character crisis since the first time I played Smash. Everyone's so fun and unique, but even though I've played a ton of Nintendo titles, I have no emotional attachment to anyone on the roster.
So for a long time, like actually since the Smash4 3DS days, I mained Falco. And that stayed true till Sora came out. And then, I played Bayonetta 1, 2 and 3 all in quick succession. I fell in love with Bayonetta as a character.
Too bad I don't like Bayo's playstyle, so I guess I main Sora now. I barely have an attachment to him, Kingdom Hearts was one of the first games I ever played, so. But I also really like his style.
I still love Falco, obviously, but I haven't played him in so long, he feels so weird to play now.
I appreciate this video, I've been saying this for a while. people just need to admit it's a skill issue and just grind. And Correct mentality is the key to succeeding. I am married and making content later on so don't want to focus as much on Ultimate but am Confident I can make top 20 PGR with solo Marth if I actually cared to compete, since I'd travel to everything lol.
But like you said if you had focused on that set you'd have beaten the Young Link bro; Marth requires focus, situation awareness and timing. I spoke with Zain at shine and althought different characters, the principals about his neutral game helped mine significantly. So yeah Marth requires you to put your nose to the grind stone. Imo he's top 15-10 if optimized properly and the best FE in the game next to Roy. Roy is just easier spacing wise because it's easier to pressure as someone that fast
Gimr still gaslighting people into thinking slingshot isn't just an irar 💀💀💀💀
I'm loving the series, but seriously, never put another battle as the battle background, my eyes were spinning trying to comprehend what was happening there 🤣🤣
Thank you, I've definitely had to learn what makes a good background video and what doesn't. Trying to do better from here on out!
@@TuesdayTastic you're doing great, but I'm curious on how you put them there, is that just some modding or are you using Hanenbow because of how much green the stage has?
Have you tried Greninja or Joker yet? I've picked up most of the characters in this game at this point, it's one of the more rewarding ways to learn matchups and mechanics for sure. I'll always be a Greninja main, but I enjoy swordies as a whole, one of the complete sets I've tried if I categorize the cast.
I haven't played either of those characters yet but Joker in particular is someone I am looking forward to play as. He's strong, cool, and just looks fun.
@TuesdayTastic He has my favorite combo game, and is the coolest character imo. Hopefully you have a good time with him, I'll say he takes more work than most characters in the game.
Hel yeah, I love new Tuesday videos every Tuesday.
Marth has the potential to be very good but the thing that people who vouch for him ignore is the massive issue of consistency. In a tournament setting, you are going to be put up against many different opponents who will test you in many different situations and you want your character to not only be able to deal with those situations but to be able to deal with them every time. Even if Marth can kill at 4 0%, it's not enough if he can only do it 50% of the time. That's why he's no more than a low mid-tier, same as Pichu in my eyes because it happens far too often that you will put Marth in a position where you count on him to succeed only for him to fail where other characters wouldn't due to inconsistent factors beyond your control. This problem is exacerbated over the course of long tournament runs where the consistency, or inconsistency, of your character is pushed to its limit, and in that environment, less consistent characters like Marth just can't keep up.
So explain how Ignaize keeps getting consistent placements with Marth? He hasn't had one super bad tournament placement as of late. 48th at Genesis 8 (outplacing many world ranked players), 17th at Wavedash 2023, many local tournament victories against notable talent, I can go on. He doesn't win every single time but that has little to do with Marth and more to do with him. Marth isn't that inconsistent. His tippers never change or shift randomly. While he does face different opponents of many shapes and sizes, you can still consistently land tippers vs. them if you practice against them.
One problem I noticed with many Marth players is that they always lab combos against similar sized characters. When I practice, I always switch it up every day. Some times I practice playing against small characters, then heavies, then tall heavies, tall lightweights, midweights... etc. It has helped so much and now I can land tippers against anyone pretty consistently. Labbing against different characters is super underlooked but super essential.
Another problem is that many Marth mains do not go for kill confirms but stray tipper hits for kills. While you certainly can get stray tipper hits for kills, learning kill confirms makes your Marth waaaaaaay better. He has so many that work against every character and that is super underutilized.
The exception doesn't make the rule. @@Spyder-Marth
The rule is Marth is quite literally consistent. He has zero RnG with consistent hitboxes. It's just a skill issue. And ultimate is a lazy mans game. Hence cloud, aegis and game and watch being at the top.@@ibechuu9695
I loved Marth in past games co-mained him in 4 along with him and played him a lot to a semi competent level in Ultimate
I like Roy more now
Roy is cool too played him not too long ago and while he may not be nearly as precise as Marth, there's still a lot of depth in his kit that makes him fun to play. And if you're not playing at your best you can still swing like a madman and do well lol.
@@TuesdayTastic yeah I watched that too I love this series already
love this episode! (oh yeah also week 6 of asking for mii brawler)
I preemptively added him to the poll because of you
@@TuesdayTastichaha, i'll get to see your cursed miis eventually >:)
@@sepplin it's your lucky day
spacing and precision, view characters teach it best
You're welcome for the camera content, and you're not welcome for the distracting conversation ;)
“Marth is good now”
*spends 75% of the video detailing how you got smoked playing as marth*
So much of this video is inaccurate. Marth is good, but he's not better than Lucina. Gimr also isn't the person who discovered Slingshot. He named it and publicized it, but a LOT of players have been using it since launch, like Roy mains.
Hes def better than lucina. Better kill power, tilts, aerials excluding nair. Better shield pressure, kill confirms.
Is your channel photo Rattlechains from mtg?
Good eye! Spirits is how I got into making content in the first place and Rattlechains has always held a special place in my heart.
Marth is fun, he's the template of most of the generic Fire Emblem character
It's not his fault everyone copied his perfection of a design
Cant wait for little mac
like ur videos man but at least for me the greenscreen stuff you do at the end of most of them makes me kinda sick. like seeing two smash games going on at once is a little disorienting
I can see that being an issue. I'll try to include pieces of media that are less disorienting in the future.
he got worse because he spent time learning english instead of training.
Him getting English voice lines was actually half the reason I dropped him at the start of Ult.
@@TuesdayTastic True, they aren't really that bad (I think Roy's are much more out of character) but they are far from being as iconic as the japanese ones.
Like butter on toast :D
5:30 why the fuck is the Roy playing it safe?
Also in my experience; no, Marth isn't good; only in Online, a reason he's not picked all that often in a tournament setting that's not online.
Marth is great for spacing with his sword but an actual aggressive, fast and in your face opponent is going to mess up Marth. The problem with Marth is an actual aggressive opponent can screw with your hit boxes, causing it where getting too close to your opponent ruins which hit box is going to hit on your opponent. Yes Marth is good against a large part of the cast of characters, that are slower and or less aggressive than him.
However; this is coming from a Zelda/ Roy main, the main pain in my ass as a Roy main and Zelda one has been Lucina, Marth only was a pain when I was playing too safe.
Press jab bud. This is a skill issue.
@@TwinHacari Did you read what I wrote? Let me put it in simpler terms.
Roy was playing like trash; Roy need 2 be aggressive. Play safe = Marth win
you're only like 3 years late
Yeah I wish I had the idea for this series while DLC was still coming out haha
aye!
Marth is cool, satisfying, but he's absolutely not a good character. I'm sorry, even with these spacing tools he's just not consistent enough to be considered a great choice where Lucina with the same moveset can give you still decent combos and consistency with kills.
Marth's sour spots takes priority in the game over his tipper hitbox wise. On top level play, one can easily play around with this concept and ruin his meta. Lucina far outclasses him, along with the rest of the sword fighters in the game that outranges him.
The exception with one's supposed success with Marth, doesn't make the rule.
Uh sorry dude, I'm a March main and he ain't good, Marth Sux. Good video though, nice editing, and I like the concept.
Also, Marth does not have a better ground game than Lucina, it is effectively impossible to hit tipper when trying to engage with the opponent, u only realisticly hit tipper once you have set up.for it or when edge guarding which is actually pretty surprising. Idk why, but I always hit tipper when edge guarding.
Skill issue
marth copium