I personally find the newer FE characters Robin, Corrin and Byleth to be quite fun. They have some of the more interesting move sets in the roster. And they are definitely more then just "another anime swords dude" XD
Byleth alone has been one of more genuinely fun DLC characters to both fight as and fight against. Her attacks hit hard and have good range, but her speed and frame advantage are below average, which keeps her fairly balanced. When you lose to a Byleth player, your more likely to believe that they didn't just cheese you and actually played pretty well.
Sonic Haxd Cool i have a Question is there a Way to fight the CPU in MK Armagedon? Outside of Arcade mode i mean! i would be fine to have Cpu and non regenerating life in Practice!
@sonic-jj1uw It could be that Japan really loves RPG characters, and since Nintendo is a Japanese company their obligated to pander to that demographic. This is why Banjo fells like a miracle to me because without the ballet, he would have never have gotten in, because unlike most characters Banjo is very western.
I’ve always despised the “too many anime swordsmen” argument because it completely misunderstands the actual core issue and offers no actual solution to that issue. I definitely think merging the characters would be a solid direction to go, even though it would probably be more difficult for some than others. Like, Lucina and Marth could fit together well enough, though I feel like you’d struggle to make someone like Alm match the same model and silhouette as Ike.
@ATProductions96 Exactly. I mean the sword is honestly just one of the most iconic weapons of all time, so of course a lot of iconic characters use one, even outside of gaming. Even then, if you actually do a count, not even half the roster of Smash Ultimate carry blades. More often than not it's really just an excuse for for people to hate on things with an anime aesthetic (which itself is really broad and vague when you stop and think about it) when they would have preferred for THEIR pick to make the roster. That said, there IS definitely an argument to be made for swordsmen in Smash having similar movesets, though that really only applies to the Fire Emblem and Zelda reps.
istg i'm one "too much anime swordfighter" away from commiting mass genocide jokes aside, i hate how people really actually use "too much anime swordfighter" as a, actual, genuine, formal, serious argument. Like honestly its one of the stupidest, if not the absolute stupidest argument i've ever heard regarding sword characters. How i can describe it perfectly is like "oh crap the submarine is drowning, welp time to complain to the captain about why i hate the paint of the submarine, i hate the color green!"
@@GoldLight73 Yeah because by this flawed logic, you could claim Meta Knight, Pit, and even Joker are "anime swordsmen" because they all use some form of bladed weapon. Hell Kazuya is easily the most "anime" style character in the game if you ask me.
@@jmaster4941 Most of the swordsmen are RPG characters, and Americans have a hard time liking RPGs. No one complains about Kazuya because Tekken has a realistic anime look. The same thing can not be said for Dragon Quest and Xenoblade 2.
On the one hand, that is a good way to keep as many reps throughout Smash as possible. On the other, it is a disappointing thought to lose some unique play styles by making some characters pallet swaps. The examples most near and dear to me are Wolf and Roy. And yes said unique, try playing them like Fox and Marth respectively and see the difference.
Actually, I feel like Azura would’ve been a great choice as the Fates rep, since she is one of the most iconic characters of the game and tho I love playing Corrin, have a moveset that mixes dancing lance moves, singing and water magic would be sick as hell.
@Xenocross by that logic every FE character except Marth and Ike should be removed, because most FE characters only get 1 game anyways and lot of those also aren't good...
@@V-Jes I disagree, I think that the only FE games that are truly bad are FE6, FE12, Fates Revelations and pretty much all the spin-offs aside from the Warriors title. I think overall, if we just got rid of Roy, Lucina and Chrom, who are all clones of Marth, I think people would’ve been more okay with the FE reps in smash
The funny thing, Lucina was going to be a costume for Marth like Dr.Mario for Mario but Sakurai decided to make them full characters instead. So this idea was on the table but they decided to go the Echo route instead.
Yeah I know I don’t mean to come across as a jerk spouting complaints. Just she kind of sticks out to me out of the clone/echo fighters in ultimate she doesn’t seem like much work was put into her compared to the other similar move set characters honestly makes her come across as kinda just a model swap in similar vain to Daisy Richter Dark-Samus. I respect Sakurai but it just seems like he and his team didn't really make her stand out at all unlike how Roy does from Marth
I think what would really help FE's rep is for Nintendo to stop treating it as an ad for the games. Pretty much 5 of the 8 characters in Ult are the main protagonist of their respective game, and 3 of that five look and play pretty similarly at face value. I know they had to do thag in Melee since not too many people in the west knew the series existed and had both Marth and Roy in there to spread awareness, but the franchise hasn't been considered niche since Awakening. I think if they used the more requested side characters, then we would have to deal with "ugh another sword character" since swords aren't the only weapons the FE characters use.
Sorry to break the news bro but Smash is a gigant ad to every other Nintendo and 3rd party ip thats why in those Sakurai presents directs he tells the audience (as an example)"you can play Terry Bogard and discover his origins on the Fatal Fury and KOF franchise with the arcade archives available on the Eshop" thats why he even said Xbox and Micrsfot in the Banjo direct to let the players know about Microsoft products(xbox,gamepass etc.)
@@Syfcobra8549 No shit. Yet all these other characters got in for actually being popular, being obscure, and adding new stuff to the game. Rather than SOLELY being for advertisement like Roy and Corn, who games weren't even out when they were added, or Byleth, whose was... for like 6 months before he got added, and was done in conjunction with DLC, making it blatantly obvious that his inclusion was more "business move" rather than "people really want this character in" or "this character would be cool to add in". Terry wasn't put in to advertise an upcoming or really recent KoF game, but because Sakurai is a fan of KoF/SnK fighting games, and his inclusion gives us the closest thing to CvS3 we'll ever get since Ryu and Ken are already in the game. And Banjo is a beloved N64 icon that people have been wanting in for a long time as opposed to getting in solely to promote the upcoming Banjo Threeie or Nuts & Bolts Tooie.
@@espurrseyes42 You could still argue that Hero was added solely to promote DQ11S for Switch. Sora was also definitely added to promote those shitty KH Cloud Versions so let's not act like FE is the sole franchise that gets advertised. Smash Bros is one giant ad in itself.
I sorta understand the idea of merging the characters for FE but extending that to other characters is a hard pill to swallow. If Mario and Luigi became skins of the same moveset, I think that would rub people the wrong way. The worst thing you can do in a fighting game is make players feel that their favorite character are just a set of functions rather than a character deserving of a thoughtful moveset
I'm not too sure on this idea, since there's more differences in characters like Ike to Marth, than there is in Alph to Olimar, by having them be just costumes or "archetypes" you ignore their personality traits and getting rid of why someone likes those characters in the first place, so an Akuma being a costume for Ryu wouldn't really work if it was an Akuma costume rather than being inspired in Akuma
Chrom being implemented as an alt for Ike as Heavy lord in this video kind of feels ironic since people were speculating him to be a clone of Ike before he was added. The fact that they made him an echo of Roy despite Roy and Lucina already fighting similarity to Marth pretty much just added more to people's issues with FE in Smash and I rarely see people mention him specifically. It kind of feels weird that Corrin and Byleth got the most flack when they're some of the most unique FE reps, while Chrom didn't get much flack when he was essentially another Marth
I believe people don't mention Chrom because of the tease from Smash 4, also his moveset being based off of Marth/Roy makes canonical sense due to him being related to Marth and Lucina with his up B being Aether due to him having Aether in the game
Fuck I hate to spam reply but it also allows a version of Roy to exist without having a sweetspot so also that could be a reason due to people liking Lucina over Marth for that reason
If all the characters are just costumes ala Koopalings, which isn't an inherently bad idea, I'm just concerned if the animations and mannerisms would fit the characters
The problem with this is that **the fe characters do indeed play differently and are not interchangeable** . Yes they are mostly built off of marth. But their differences are key to how they play. For example, Lucina doesn’t have his tipper, so she is more reliable with kills and a safer option, despite a lower skill ceiling. Roy has an opposite hit box to Marths tipper and is ever so slightly heavier. This makes a **massive** difference in how he’s played, combos, skill requirements, etc. as a marth main, playing roy was similar to playing fox in terms of change in play style. Ike is different enough, no need to speak on that, and chrome acts as a roy to Ike. Very similar on paper, but very evident why one is preferred in competitive whilst the other is not. Corrin, Robin and byleth are self explanatory; quite different characters, only similarities being the series, art style and sword in hand.
I honestly think it would be a terrible idea. For existing characters, while there are a lot of people who main them because of their design or personality, there are arguably more who main them for there gameplay. And if those Characters gameplay was just gotten rid of and they staid around altunate costumes, people's reactions wouldn't be "at least there still in the game" it would be "this isn't the character I main, don't lie to me". And for new characters the reaction would be basicly nothing at best, or anger at worst as a character someone was exited to see how smash tackles is just boild down to them litterly being an altunate costume. The reason the koopalings worked is because they didn't really have a good idea for a moveset besides a bunch of references, they were waluigi without the meme value. And the heroes worked because all the heroes across the dragon quest games were basically the same character.
Nah. FE fans would accept it especially if they keep their personality and voice lines. Roy literally shared Marth's animations in FE6, Smash is the one that made shit up.
@@nuibaba280 similarly, not exactly. Yes you can play marth and get a good idea on how to play Roy, but if you try to play Roy in the exact same way as marth you will fail. Same with basically every other clone in smash with the exaption of the echoes and Dr mario.
this is actually a pretty good idea, other good examples for existing characters could be belmont (with maybe trevor and julius as extra characters) or PK User (adding ninten as another character, claus could work as well I guess but if he got in I'd perfer him to be repped in a different way)
I like the idea but I think the idea of echo fighters should stay and be worked on. Some popular characters are too different to be a skin but similar enough to not justify a full fledged character
The idea of archetypes can also work pretty well with the zelda characters like for example Link having the looks from the most iconic zelda games like Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess, Skyward sword or Breath of the wild.
it's an interesting idea, but the problem for me is that rhese characters lose a LOT of their uniqueness when they have different animations, hit boxes, taunts, etc. Like M!Robin and F!Robin work because they're basically the same character, or at least very similar. you can't really do that with Marth and Chrom when Chrom feels more heavy and tough than Marth, or Mario and Luigi when they're basically completely distinct characters now. that's just my opinion tho, it's an interesting idea either way :)
That's a problem on problem sandwich though as explained in the video Lucina completely replace Marth in terms of skill due to her lower hitbox and higher sword moves Is uniqueness great when it's just better than the previous character maybe not
They explained Marth and Chrom would be seperate though? Like it was specified there would be a regular lord and heavy lord archetype and Chrom fits into the latter for Ike, which makes plenty of sense
@@Doralga idk about that. Like Lucina, Doctor Mario, Daisy, Dark Pit, etc. could all very well be alts, but then Luigi is a character completely different from Mario. Ken Sakura and Akuma, even if they all take ideas from Ryu, have their own flair, moveset differences and animations that make them different (especially Sakura and Akuma). Imagine if Akuma got into the game and he did nothing that made him cool like the one handed blasts or his super, but instead was a Ryu skin. some characters wouldn't fit well at all, like Alm is left handed, can't do any firey attacks Ike has, and would probably be more rushdown/ quick than Ike could even dream of. Imagine if Gardevoir or Impa got in and instead of having their own unique moveset they were relegated to being Mewtwo and Greninja skins. at that point I'd rather have them be newcomers or not come at all.
@@Hebleh I'm just saying, cuz even then Chrom can't do things like Ike's neutral special, and it'd be hard to imagine him being as heavy as Ike. in the end it's an interesting idea and does work for some characters (Like the Belmont's could totally do that), but then others I'd rather not have them be changed that majorly, or lose what makes them unique moveset wise.
I don't think they'll ever do this for Lucina because once they make her character model, they really only need to make some tweaks to her stats to make her an echo. Also, I feel like the smash team would be reluctant to downgrade characters who were full characters before since it would be a downgrade for them. Instead of making Luigi more similar to Mario, I would actually rebuild him from the ground up as a Luigi's Mansion character - those games are popular enough to get their own character and it would help the new game stand out from Ultimate
Azura from Fates was a major character in all three routes with Fates and was just as important to the overall plot to that game as Corrin. She was also the first dancer Lord and Fates advertising made a huge deal about her more than the protagonists and was just as popular, probably more than, all 3 protagonists Corrin, Ryoma, and Xander. They did it before with Robin (who was available first) and Min Min and neither of them are the face of their games, just the most important.
I actually think it'd be a disservice to make some of these characters costumes. Sure it'd work but chrom wouldn't fit Ike's moveset that well having been closer to Roys moveset already. Roy's in your face sword playstyle is also a fan favorite. Fan outcry got him in sm4sh. I'd honestly rather have them cut with room to return later except for lucina. She is the only one to fully fit just being a costume since her whole thing is mimicking Marth. I could see them keeping the same group as you but with less of a costume focus. Then maybe bringing back Roy as dlc/an update but no more unless they go out of their way to re-add characters again
This seems reasonable. Too bad a) even if Nintendo did implement this I imagine they would manage to fuck it up (badly) and b) some people would definitely rage over Roy getting re-Norted by Marth.
One idea I had for Pokemon is to just make them all a part of the Pokemon Trainer, and during char. select you can choose up to 3 different monsters you wanna fight with. This would mean even new Pokemon would be simply additions to the Trainer and wouldn't take as much space on the select page.
Leif was never meant to be the Marth clone of Melee. That's been disproven already as the source who said this admitted they made the whole thing up. Roy was always meant to be the Marth clone no matter how you slice it and dice it.
I got into Fire Emblem Franchise because of Super Smash Bros. So I really love the idea for more characters to appear in Smash. But I understand that alot of fans of Smash don't approve alot because of Half Rosters of Smash Ultimate with Fire Emblem Rep has Copy's of Marth: • Marth's Copy (Roy, Chrom, & Lucina) • Marth's Non-Copy (Ike, Robin, Corrin, & Byleth) So for future Idea's it would be cool for how we can fix the problem after Byleth's introduction and movesets set up besides using just swords & Alear for Fire Emblem Engage introduction as well. Basically I want only all protagonist that reps different from their timelines & continents to appear for the next Smash 6 for 2025 or later. Here's what I think would be great idea if they continue Echo Fighters & Palette Swaps: • Archanea/ Ylisse Timeline Rep (Marth, Chrom, Robin, & Lucina) • Valentia/ Valm Timeline Rep (Alm & Celica) • Jugdral Timeline Rep (Leif) • Elibe Timeline Rep (Roy) • Magvel Timeline Rep (Eirika) • Tellius Timeline Rep (Ike) • Fates Timeline Rep (Corrin) • Fodlan Timeline Rep (Byleth) • Elyos Timeline Rep (Alear) Reasons: • Marth & Lucina- Stay the Same but Lucina is a Palette Swap instead of Echo Fighter • Chrom- Instead of Roy's Echo Fighter, let him be Echo Fighter for Ike because of Similarities • Robin- Stay the Same • Alm & Celica (New)- Duo Characters like Pyra & Mythra • Leif (New)- Recently New Character for Smash 6, because he was going to be in Melee but replaced with Roy instead. Let him be Roy's Echo Fighters but different weapon abilities & using Light Element attack (Ex: Pyra's Fire & Mythra's Light/ Axe, Lance, & Bow Attack similar to Byleth special & as an Emblem from Engage) • Roy- Stay the Same. • Eirika (New)- Recently new character for Smash 6, because she's the only timeline game of Magvel not having the chance to be in any Smash games at all, same for her Twin Brother Ephraim. • Ike- Stay the Same. • Corrin- Stay the Same. • Byleth- Stay the Same. • Alear (New)- Recently new Avatar for future Smash 6. Total Fire Emblem Reps: 13 Character (10 Main Roster/ 2 Echo Fighters/ 1 Palette Swaps)
Pretty good idea. One issue i'll see is that people maining the characters that become pallet swap of other character would get upset, but if it's just the gameplay that is the main concern, then their moveset can be repurposed for another archetype. If for example Marth and Roy were merged, then Roy's moveset could be used by aformentioned light lord. It is definetely a better solution than just cutting them completely. Smash will face the same problem Pokemon had sooner rather than later.
I think one issue is that litterally everyone they chose is a sword user from fire emblem, I've only had the chance to play the older ones like gba, Snes and heroes and I feel like they could have a rep of axe user or a spear or bow users and it could have easily represented those characters. I was also litterally crossing my fingers to have the meme lord dorcus in the game who's an axe character but of course nope
Nobody would complain about Byleth and Corrin if completely redundant characters like Lucina and Chrom just didn't exist. And Roy, as much as I love him, is only in the most recent game as nostalgiabait and was a weird selection for Melee in the first place. Folding characters into other characters as costumes is fine, but ultimately Marth, Lynn, Ike, Byleth, and Robin would be an excellent lineup without a lot of redundancy and only needing one new movepool for Lynn (and if you want to get cheeky, you could give her a lot of Sephiroth's neutral as a base)
It could work. Though there is also the fact that there are ZERO villains from FE in the roster. Every nintendo franchise represented, barring F-zero and MOTHER, has a villain or at least a rival to butt heads with the main rep of the series. One big argument is to include the Black Knight, who was wanted enough that he made it in as an assist trophy, meaning there is something there.
So they should've made them fkin skins! The fact we didn't get Rayman Spyro or Crash Bandicoot is such a disappointment Piranha plant was the only original dlc character we got and that's a meme character
@@jmaster4941 I think the only reason Steve got in, is because Sakurai likes sword characters. Except this time it's a sword character that everyone wants, even if design Steve was REALLY hard😮💨😮💨😮💨😮💨😮💨.
I think your idea characters being costume alts is pretty good, but I don't think they would do it because they would likely have to record some new voice clips for older characters and that doesn't seem as easy to do considering they would have to rehire old voice talent for that and that would make them also question if would it be worth the added expenses. This Fire Emblem design issue is mainly just a issue to the FE / anime haters, who overexaggerate and generally argue in bad faith anyway considering the whole point of Ultimate was to bring every playable character back.
Its not like they don't already have the va's on hand. Every FE character in Smash was also in the latest game Engage. Plus they're constantly pulled back in to do alts in Heroes. Marth and Ike's VAs for instance voice 2 different main protagonists, respectively.
I think the archetype idea of yours is honestly genius and is something I can totally see them doing in the next smash game, which I can also see as very likely being a reboot of the series!!
This is probably the single best argument I've seen in favor of using what are essentially Premiere skins from Injustice to give people the characters they want.
I like this idea. I was actually thinking about a way to condense the roster to include new characters, though for Lucina and Chrom my idea is THEY become one slot while sharing a slot with Robin. Think Smash Remix secret characters (press the D-pad on the CSS to select them); Robin is the way to access "Awakening" characters. Simon and Richter work like how you shared if they merged movesets and character slots, gives room for say Alucard. Just throwing ideas :)
I agree with this, but I doubt Nintendo would. They'll just keep making the same mistakes like NRS because they're all about quantity over quality for a cheap buck.😕
I don’t think it’s really a problem as long as they do two things: 1. Try to make the newcomers from FE unique regardless of them being more swordfighters (they’ve already been doing that with Robin, Corrin, and Byleth) 2. Prioritize new franchises over repping the old ones. Especially once they get to DLC. Seriously, Nobody complained about there being too many Fire Emblem characters prior to Corrin being added. The main complaint was that Robin made it in over Chrom. Then, when Chrom was added, I don’t remember there being any complaints. I still believe that there were only complaints when Byleth was added because they were the last character in the first fighters pass, and they probably should’ve changed the order to make Banjo the last one. Also, I don’t like the idea of sorting characters by archetypes I already think that the Koopalings and Alph should have their own slots, regardless of the fact that they are basically just skins. Finally, I don’t think the next game will be a complete restart. Now that they’ve brought everyone back, it would feel like too much of a step back if they essentially reset the roster. Personally, I think they’re gonna do the same thing they did with Ultimate and just carry over the assets from the previous game and update the visuals. The only characters I think they’ll actually cut are the ones that they can’t get the rights back for (Sora, Snake, etc.) Sorry for the tldr
They kind of have to reset the roster, there are about 90 characters in the game now. It was called ultimate for a reason. IF they even make another smash, they'd have to start small again.
@@xacmashe3852 The Fire Emblem characters are meant to be the safe characters in Smash. Characters with minimal strengths, but also minimal weakness. Characters like Sephiroth and Hero are the opposite, they have super flashy moves but have big gaping weakness to balance them out. This is because Fire Emblem is a strategy game, it's not meant to be as flashy as Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest. There's a reason MKleo loves Corrin and Byleth, competitive fans usually prefer the safe characters over the flashy high risk high reward characters most of the time.
What i would do: Change Chrom's moveset Make Lucina a Chrom Echo Fighter Make Roy a Marth Echo fighter Keep Ike Add a "Skill System" for every FE characters in the roster, each unique to the character Example: Roy gets Wrath, when % higher than 80%, if perfect parry, increases knockback on next attack Add Sigurd and Hector as newcomers If too much, one of the two Sigurd: Sigurd is a lance/sword mounted unit so a horse model and a dismount system would have to be made but the system could also be reused for other characters such as Link if a new moveset is made Hector: Hector is an armored axe unit so he would most likely be as heavy as K rool and Bowser, have super armor on his smash attacks like his spirit in Smash Ultimate does and good strength, he's pretty reckless so maybe adding a recoil mechanic for bigger damage and knockback would be satisfying I think that those two would be pretty neat FE additions for Smash compared to someone like Lyn that would in my opinion feel "too generic" or would have to appear as another marth echo fighter with her own skillset to make it interesting without having to steal another character slot due to lower effort
I'd like to see Snake become an archetype! Could have Solid Snake, Big Boss, Raiden (mgs2), and Old Snake!! Solid's costumes could be his sneaking suit from mgs1 and 2 (one with the thermal jacket and one without), Big Boss could have the tiger stripe camo and one of his many sneaking suits, Raiden could have his skull suit and the BDU, and Old Snake could switch between a clean or damaged version of his Octo Camo suit!
Ironically enough Sakurai originally wanted Lucina to be Marth’s alt, but chose not to because he thought “her move set felt too unique to be a costume”.
Drop Chrom and Lucina and turn them into costumes, give Roy and Ike their sword beams and Ike his axe Urvan. Then add Veronica from Fire Emblem Heroes for villain rep (she's the only villain the series would realistically get), and then you can add Alear whenever we get the inevitable avatar addition. You can add Lyn and Micaiah optionally if you want but the above is how you best fix this, I've preached this for over 5 years
There are a lot of good ideas here, but you seem to be conflating same properties with same moves. Roy is less like Lucina to Marth and more like Young to Toon Link. He does have the same moves, but their playstyle is night and day. Roy is aggro rushdown, and Marth is footsie space combat. Rolling Roy into Marth would delete Roy (who is one of my mains, I would NOT appreciate that). Pichu has a different size and weight class, and Young and Toon are a lot like Marth/ Roy - completely different playstyles. So you effectively delete playstyle choices and alienate people. Yes, Lucina and Marth should share a slot, and maybe Chrom and Ike too. Ryu and Ken are different in Street Fighter, and Akuma DEFINITELY is different from them. Ganondorf used to just be a modified Captain Falcon, and even back in Melee, they had different playstyles. Luigi? He definitely ain't Green Mario, not in Smash. People would be furious if their main suddenly lost all individuality and played like a character they liked less. So while Peach/Daisy, Marth/Lucina, and Chrom/Ike would work, it's definitely not a thing that should be applied to the whole roster.
It's one of my problems with Jump Force, Asta is the only character representing Black Clover, Bleach has the most characters and while I like that series there are other characters from other Shonen Jump series I would've liked seeing included
It's basically a best of both worlds. FE Enjoyers get their favorite lords in the game under a costume Smash Players enjoy the fact that there are "less" fire emblem characters on the roster Win-Win Situation
How did no one ever think of making Kiran the Pokemon Trainer!? That's freaking genius, and that would be the 3rd to 5th FE characters without counters!
I think Robin can also use the alt character costume idea too besides Morgan, with Celica and Owain. Laugh at that last choice, but Owain is a master of both sword and magic. Maybe he even gets an Odin costume while Celica also gets a classic/brave costume in the same vein as the opposite genders for Robin. And I also think Byleth could get this treatment too with Anna, someone who basically sells all the weapons throughout the series (you could even make her lack mobility because she carries such a heavy load like her her Awakening self in FEH. Although not sure how you could deal with her up special). My best bet for a Corrin alt that isn't Kana would probably be Tiki, since she can use weapons like swords in Awakening (but then again, everyone could use anything in that game).
I think they could make this, but keeping the characters that are already echo fighters as that. Reassigning them as skins would make people complain a lot cuz the character they mained doesn't feel the same.
@@maxleon61702 The problem is that villains are hard to balance. Ridley disappointed a lot of people. Even Sephiroth has mixed options because of how light weight he is. A Fire Emblem villain would suffer the same problem.
That could be a neat idea, like. Any fighter from a returning FE installment is required to fit a unit class that has yet to be represented in Smash so that way, additional skins can be coded in for other examples of that unit. Marth will be the Basic Lord and have Leif as one of his Alt Roy's backhand slashing makes him a Blazing Lord and have his dad Eliwood and Threcia's Sigurd as alts. Ike's Heavy Lord class serves as a window for prince Xander of Nohr. Navarre's Samurai Swordfighter status adds Ryoma to complete the Fates representation with Hoshido. Not counting already programmed-in fighters (official or otherwise, thank god for PMEX) Awakening's Frederick representing the cavalier class allows Cain and Abel to join Marth and Gunter to get memed on. ('I'm gonna be useless soon!') I can totes see Fire Emblem reps with archery moves able to send floating characters into a full meteor smash-style freefall. Can you imagine Virion shooting Princess Peach out of the sky?
To be honest, I've already thought about this, and, while I wouldn't group Luigi with Mario as a plumber archetype, since Luigi has plenty of possible unique moves, but I would group Dr. Mario with Mario, because here's the thing. Custom movesets. Okay, so, the Smash 4 custom moveset thing didn't really pan out, but, what about the more simple solution? Variations. These are basically the variations in Mortal Kombat X, except they act more as modifiers, and in some cases, a slight moveset change. For example, for Mario, you could have the Plumber variation and the Doctor variation, where he'll throw pills and doesn't use FLUDD. Or, for Marth, give him a Just-The-Tip variation or the Full Mast variation, I dunno, maybe have a Flaming variation or something. For Samus, have a Power Suit variation and a Phazon variation. And, like, by default, every character just uses the first variation, and you could switch it by clicking on an icon next to your character portrait. I mean, my idea would have also included costume shaders (recolors) and even full character customization (swapping costume parts, like Mario's cap for the Builders cap), but that'd probably be too much to ask for Nintendo.
If I could redo the FE Smash cast with hindsight, it would be: Marth (Sword/Mascot/Famicon) Lucina alt Hector (Axe/GBA) Black Knight (Villain/Heavy Armor/Gamecube) Robin (Magic/Awakening/ Custom Character) Awakening Tiki (Manakete/Non-weapon Fighter) Admittedly, it could be younger Tiki for size variety, but I don't like the "1000 year old person in child's body," trope. Azura (Lance/ Fates/ "Dancer"/ somehow a better protagonist of Fates than Corrin) Byleth (Whip Sword/ 3 Houses) Anna (Bow/ Knives & Shuriken/ Staves? Maybe?/ Mascot/ Smash-original design) This covers a lot of ground game and weapon-wise while keeping 8 reps of reasonably likely and important characters. Other characters considered being Alm, Python, & Berkut from Echoes, Claude from 3 Houses, and Sharena, Heroes Anna, Fjorm, and Veronica from Heroes.
I like this idea. On another hand, could you do a rewrite of FE Fates? Something similar to your MK rewrite series since I did enjoy Fates, but the story did have a lot of missed opportunities
Originally. Lucina was going be an alternate costume for Marth like the Wii Fit Trainer and Robin back in Smash 4. But then they wanted to make her unique enough to be her own fighter
Another thing I think would be funny would be letting Ike and Roy shoot projectiles from their swords, since the Ragnel and Binding blade are both 1-2 range weapons. Also letting Ike use an axe, preferably the Urvan
Actually, I remember people wanted Azura to be the fates rep. She appears on all the routes, and her combo of dancer unit with a spear would make for a unique play style. Alas, Sakurai went with the extremely bland avatar character, Corrin, which really didn’t help with the backlash.
I feel like combining some characters together wouldn’t work. The proportions of some characters are too different like Pichu and Pikachu. So some sharing everything just wouldn’t work.
The hate that Byleth got when it was revealed was so unfair, the character is so unique and fun to play Also FE needs a villian rep like the Black Knight Path of Radiance or Cornelia from 3 houses or more diversity in the clases like a Dancer user like Azura from Fates or a Magician like Miriel from Awakening
@@maxleon61702 The Good news is that Roy's purple alt is a reference to Zephiel and Ike's black alt is a reference to the Black Knight. The other problem is that villains are usually very hard to design, Ganondorf is proof of that. Sakurai said that Steve was extremely hard to design so. So that means that Sakurai can't make any cool concept work.
@user-px3hw5kz2x Sword characters are meant to be the perfect balance of speed and Range. Brawler characters have speed, but their lack of range makes them hard to use. th-cam.com/video/Zisu_1jljk0/w-d-xo.html
With Fire Emblem Engage released, something had me wondering… I doubt this will happen, but what if the entire Fire Emblem side of Smash’s roster gets cut? Instead, all we’re getting is Alear, and what if any of his/her Smash moves involve using the emblem rings? There was so much flack in Smash with more new Fire Emblem characters introduced or certain ones never included and are instead in the roles of Assist Trophies. But what if all of it won’t matter because in Engage all of your favorite FE characters are spirits bound inside rings? If any of Alear’s movesets are ring-based, what does it mean for the fighters themselves? Do all them get cut for the sake of consistency? Are all hopes of Lyn being playable completely dashed? The release of Engage has me left questions about the future of Smash… (Btw, I believe Twili Midna should be Zelda’s echo fighter) (Dr. Mario as an alternate skin for Mario) (Raichu as Pikachu’s echo fighter; completing the “Chu” trio; assuming Pichu doesn’t get cut) (Octoling as either an echo fighter or alternate skin for Inkling)
My boy Ephraim is being overlooked, he's the one of the few main lord in the franchise who uses a lance. Make him an alt of Dimitri, and Hector an alt of Hedelgar and I'll be very happy
I don't think that would work at all. It's fine for Alph, the Koopalings, certain FE Lords and Simon / Richter who might have distinct personalities but don't really differ animations-wise or the Heroes who are pretty much the same character. But reducing every character to just a series of moves strips them completely of their identity and clashes with the idea of overhauling older movesets. It'd be one step forward for Mario but two steps back for Luigi for example if he's less distinct than he was in even the first game. Even if they're present as an alt, the character themself would still be cut either way.
Echo fighters take up a lot less time to make than a regular character does. They aren't taking a slot away from anyone else. They're last minute extras at worst. Wolf in brawl was specifically chosen because they could slot him in last minute and he's a lot more distinct from his base character than the echos are.
Funny enough, a lot of the FE roster being just the basic lord archetype and many of them being based around Marth probably wouldn't be much of an issue if we just had 1 rep per FE game, with Robin being the sole rep for Awakening instead of also having Lucina and Chrom as echoes. That'd pretty much make it to where only the original 3 Fire Emblem characters added to Smash would have the basic lord archetype, with Marth and Roy being the only ones fighting similarly to each other, Ike being unique from them with him being a heavy lord, and Robin, Corrin and Byleth also being unique while adding in other weapons and abilities
Roy is a melee clone so of course he is similar. But chrom and lucina are echo fighters that are developed and referred to as clones that does not take up that much development time. There is Marth, his clone Roy and the rest are unique.
Here’s an idea. Nintendo should just collaborate with Arc System Works and make a Fire Emblem fighting game already. I already have a good concept of the roster made.
@@radiantwolf9724 Ah. I see. Tbh, I don’t care what FE characters make it in to Smash Bros. As long as they look cool and their gameplay slaps. Now I do agree that we may have a bit too many of them. But then again, we also have an over abundance of Pokémon and Mario Characters taking up half the roster as well. And I get that those two are Nintendos most popular franchises but I don’t see people complaining about them so…Nintendo won’t stop bring FE into Smash tho. Doesn’t seem likely. The way I see it: Fire Emblem is a franchise that, much like Pokémon, would suit perfectly for its own fighting game. With the right developer, we don’t have to complain about FE taking up a Smash roster because we could have a potentially great fighting game with all our favorite FE heroes and villains. Add that to the fact that Nintendo would probably feel better about this game being in the esports scene than they are with Smash.
While I think this would have been a good solution if we started this way by now there is no reason other than "pleasing the haters" (which we all now would be temporary at best) to cut or merge the Fire Emblem roster. Especially if we ever get a next Smash Bros game it would most likely cut some of the returnees so keeping them seperate would slightly lessen the percieved roster cut that will happen.
A duo of Alm and Celica where you can swap between them like Pyra/Mythra. Alm being the slower more powerful side and Celica being the lighter, faster, and all around more agile side. She is also a mage so they could include that. Down special for both would be swap, like other fighters of this style Alm would have falchion, but also use a bow Celica would have Ladyblade, and also Ragnarok for offensive use (and takes damage when she uses it) as well as the light magic version of nosfuratu (because she is a priestess. He has higher attack and launch power, but is slower and heavier. She is faster and has a longer dodge window, but doesnt knockback as much or deal as much damage. Their final smash would be the same regardless of who is active, but Alm's has higher knockback and damage, but attacks a smaller area while Celica's has better range making it harder for opponents to avoid, but doesnt knockback as far or deal as much damage.
This actually reminds me of the Fire Emblem in Smash video Schaffrillas Productions made, even the opening reminded me of the point he made. In fact, something tells me that putting the word "real" in the title almost feels like an indirect response to him and his take on the roster. Ah, but how can I watch this, there's no bashing Corrin segment! (Please note my sarcasm in the last sentence, I love playing Corrin)
Honestly in regards to main protags i don't think its accurate to say that the FE protags are a shoe-in because of their status. For instance, Terry is labelled a KOF character instead of Fatal Fury. And the protag of that series is Kyo Kusanagi, Terry isn't even one of the several main heroes there. And Pyra/Mythra share the role of Deuteragonist to Rex's Protagonist. The only reason we got the main protags of FE are added is because of advertising. If they wanted to be creative, Chrom and Robin would be a tag character, to not only show off Pair-Up from their game but to also show how the two work in tandem.
The Fire Emblem characters are meant to be the safe characters in Smash. Characters with minimal strengths, but also minimal weakness. Characters like Sephiroth and Hero are the opposite, they have super flashy moves but have big gaping weakness to balance them out. This is because Fire Emblem is a strategy game, it's not meant to be as flashy as Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest. There's a reason MKleo loves Corrin and Byleth, competitive fans usually prefer the safe characters over the flashy high risk high reward characters most of the time.
My only problem with the solution is that I feel like at a certain point you can't just group characters together. admittedly a lot of the examples were awful using characters who do not share proportions or have drastic gameplay differences in their home series. Not every franchise can just be archetyped into one slot as if they were fire emblem and even some examples for fe felt like it would cause some disservice.
2:22 Its an unrelated point from the Main Video's main points and arguments but: I for one would welcome there being a Warriors Spin off for Every New FE Game going forward ala Dynasty Warriors Main Series and the Empires games being a popular side series with its own fans.
It's funny, Chrom still bothers me despite Awakening being one of my favourite games of all time, yet I would have ENTIRELY been ok with Black Knight as an Ike echo, because I'm desperate for more villains in the roster.
>Keep Marth as is and untouched. He's the basic swordy of the game, and that's fine, especially given that the first swordy and his clone where also part cancerous zoner capable of fighting at nearly any range. >Cut Roy. He's just a Marth assets dump with flame effects and slightly modified animations (the reverse grip he constantly switches to) and different numbers. And he has no good reason to be even similar to Marth when he's not even from the same world as him. >Keep Ike, maybe change him up a bit to use axes somehow and that blade beam Ragnell can shoot. >Robin is fine. He earned his spot on the roster. >Cut Lucina. She's even more of a Marth clone and only a slightly better canon excuse that's ALSO contradicted by the same canon. >Corn got in to promo a game that wasn't even out everywhere at the time, and he and his game aren't exactly the most beloved additions to the series. No one asked for this character, and he's just even more padding on an already inflated roster. >Chrom can stay if he gets decloned to use more of his actual abilities rather than be Marth 4. I'd also be down for Lucina to be a skin for him so that she can still be in the game. Awakening has earned as much given that FE was saved from death and became "popular" because of it. >Byleth is just more padding, but at least their game was out by their addition, and they're way more unique than Corn or any other FE character. Though his addition does call BS on Rex or Pyra/Mythra not getting added into the base roster or even first DLC wave when 3Houses was out for like 6 months before Byleth got added while I think XC2 was out for nearly a year. NOT counting any pre-release info Sakurai been given and used to get a XC2 fighter into the game before padding the FE roster more than its already been. FE Roster: >Marth >Ike >Robin >Chrom (decloned) >Byleth
IMO, I'd rather they did the Weapon Triangle Route, or like what they did with the last 3 Main (Non-Lord) character additions from FE: make them unique, even if their main attack weapon is a sword. (Heck, I don't care about tiers; I only liked playing as Lucina because when I unlocked her after playing as Marth in Smash 4, I never looked back and stuck to her, even though she doesn't have the Tip Mechanic Marth has; even so, I rather play Roy over Marth before, but because I think he was removed in Brawl for Ike - whom I also preferred - I ended up just not caring for Marth when I just picked the alt Lord option. It's more preference for me like playing as Ken instead of Ryu.) Something that I think makes the OC characters stand out over the Lords is that they have gimmicks that showcase their strong suits - Robin being a hybrid of a swordsman and tome user, Corrin being a Manakete that starts off as a melee unit, and Byleth being able to wield all 3 Weapons from each House Leader, showcasing how that game basically every unit is a blank slate that can be customized as you see fit; they give you purpose for them. The most I can see with reworking said reps is to start from scratch, and have different types of Lords or archetypes - Marth as Lord, Ike or Hector as Axe Lord, Corrin or the Manaketes as Manakete, and so on until you have at least reps from each game with something unique to them; only exceptions I find are the mounted units, but that has to do more with basically forcing a Bowser Jr. Situation where said characters are stuck on a mount instead of moving on legs, which by that point, why not just stick to a "Foot Unit" instead. As an aside, I think "popularity could also help, though it would be heavily skewed in certain directions. Personally, I kind of always wanted to see Hector be added due to how much people seem to like him, plus he'd stand out being an Axe Lord; alternatively, they could also include Knight units instead to showcase a Heavy Unit - Kellam being the one that comes to mind, but I assume there are better picks than him, since his gimmick is being the Knight Unit that gets ignored - and have Myrmidons or Thief units like Jafar or Navarre for swift glass cannons; it's another flavor of sword fighter, but you could make it be more agile. Think hardest part would be picking the rep for each archetype.
Honestly, My issue has always been that there’s no variety in weapon choice. Like seriously! There’s been a whole weapon triangle in Fire Emblem and yet we only really get to see one point of it. There’s axes, Lances. Magic, bows. Hell, we even have fisticuffs in game now, there’s so many characters to choose from and yet we keep getting swords, really sad honestly
The main lords are given swords and Smash is obviously going to pick a main character long before they pick a random unit that will not give you a game over when they die, excluding special circumstances of some chapters here and there. I think what matters most ultimately is not the weapon, but how they play. Like, Ike and Hector would not play that much different despite the different weapon, because an axe is not all that different than a sword from a general baseline.
@@CSwizzleDizzle Pretty much. Even if we got Edelgard, she wouldn't function that differently from Ike because it's still just a heavy hitting short-ranged melee weapon.
@@CSwizzleDizzle If smash was a traditional fishing game spears could be interesting, but not in Smash. Smash usually has simple movesets which means less variety.
I believe one good idea is to put in Fire Emblem characters who don’t use a sword at all. Like add in a Axe-user, a Lance-user, or even a Bow-user. That would actually make more variety than Marth clone #35.
@@danahlrich7519 That is sadly not possible, Sakurai said that Smash is based on a Japanese Arcade game called (Outfoxies). In that game you have Swords, whips, Pistols, Rocket Launchers, Barrels, pie, Soup, but no spears or Axes to be found. So Sakurai isn't sure if a full Axe or Spear user is possible in a platform fighter, which is why we have Byleth?????
This video is so refreshing! Finally someone that properly analyzes why the Fire Emblem cast is the way it is and gives a suggestion that isn’t adding characters that don’t represent their game as well or cutting characters. I also think costumes could be a good way to properly represent multiple characters, even though I don’t agree with all your ideas for the costumes. I think condensing Marth and Lucina into one could work, but I think Roy has cemented himself as different enough from Marth that it wouldn’t feel right to have him play exactly like Marth. I think Eliwood would make a better costume for Marth personally. Even then, I think the main problem with the FE representation is variety and how quickly the amount of reps were increasing. The second part we can’t do anything about but the first part is again, half of the characters are Marth clones. I don’t want to get rid of Chrom and Lucina because of how iconic they are to the series so I would suggest putting them on one interchangeable slot and making a new moveset for them like how they are in Warriors. That doesn’t fix the amount of sword wielding lords but it makes most of them at least feel unique. I do think of a reboot happens, the main ones that will stay are Marth, Ike, Robin, and Byleth. If that’s the case I would add in my Chrom/Lucina idea as well as add in iconic characters that satisfy different archetypes like Anna or Tiki.
I like this idea and it definitely makes space for specific characters to pop up and not sacrifice other characters. Plus it definitely makes the fire emblem rep feels a bit more balancing comparison to how it was originally and the same could go for all the other representatives. And at this point I think a reboot would be a good idea considering there's no way the next game is gonna reach this level of insanity when it comes to a character roster. Maybe just maybe if something like this happened people would shut up about certain characters not being in the game or at least be cool with the characters they do have...... Who am I kidding they are not gonna shut up about it they will scream until the cows come home if they don't get that 1 character from that 1 game in this not fighting game. That aside I'd be cool with this idea!
While I think it’s a good idea in concept to combine the FE characters as well as other characters. It is just a disservice to the characters themselves because while yes a lot of the Lords of the series do use Swords they have different fighting styles and unlike characters like Hero who is a blank slate and doesn’t have a character really they are just a self insert and the Koopalings and Bower Jr who have very small differences with each other, plus to a lesser extent Alp and Olimar. Clone character will always exist in fighting games to give a gameplay with slight differences I mean look at the original clone Ken who was just red Ryu but then eventually throughout the games became different from Ryu. Roy was just the same as Marth from the start but then they took a different more rushdown play style from Marth to make him more unique and if you then just made Roy into a palette swap of Ike with no differences would just make fans of that playstyle annoyed that it’s not there anymore. I also do want to mention the examples of Lief as a costume for Marth and Alm as a costume for just wouldn’t fit them as characters. Lief is similar to Marth at the start especially in Thracia 776 but Lief eventually is able to use all weapons and even Magic so they would be better as an echo for Byleth is anything and Alm wouldn’t really play anything like Ike as a bruiser and would fit being an echo of Roy with their fast rushdown plus Alm is the only left handed lord in the series so his animations would have to be different but that honestly is an easy fix most likely. The thing I think can help fix what this so called problem is just Alear. While I don’t think the characters themselves are a problem because it’s hard to represent FE as a game with its large character pool with very little overlap I think Alear can fix this because of the natural of Engage’s gameplay with which the Emblem Rings. Of course the roster is gonna be cut for the next Smash game if they ever decide to make another of course. I think Marth with echo Lucina will make the roster along with Ike, Robin, Corrin and Byleth for their more unique gameplay and Alear being able to use the power of previous characters of the series. Alear does have their own fighting style but they can make it that they can take on move sets of Roy and other characters of their Emblem rings. It will be hard to do and will make Alear and really complex character to use and to code hell if you want since all of the characters in Smash are emblem rings/bracelets in Engage , Alear can be the sole FE Rep which I doubt will happen
I think they should keep the same amount of characters but change some of the reps for me here’s my choices: 1. Marth 2. Ephraim 3. Ike 4. Robin 5. Shez 6. Hector 7. Byleth 8. Azura
I like Fire Emblem characters in Smash Bros since they since they're all unique and fun to play! unfortunately I haven't played a Fire Emblem game as of now.
While I am not sure alear would join the next smash mainly the timing isn't good but has a decent chance. But I am calling it now the next FE rep will be a sword wielder with some gimmick, the newer FE reps (robin, corrin & byleth) fits this description and I expect this pattern to continue.
I honestly think Marth and Robin were the only characters that made sense as worthy FE reps, Marth being the first protag and Robin being the protag of Awakening which more or less rebooted FE to be as popular as it is now, also having a magic moveset which is drastically different from Marth. Ike is cool but is just heavy Ike imo with a skightly more diverse moveset but come from much less popular games. Chrom, Roy and Lucina are all variations of Marth tbh and I more or less add Corrin to that group too. Byleth is interesting since their moveset is much more varied like Robin wielding a more diverse range of weapons and require a much different playstyle. Therefore I think Marth, Robin and Byleth are a worthy trio, Ike would be a worthy 4th if they stay with a heavier sword wielder but that's just my opinion
I personally find the newer FE characters Robin, Corrin and Byleth to be quite fun. They have some of the more interesting move sets in the roster. And they are definitely more then just "another anime swords dude" XD
Byleth alone has been one of more genuinely fun DLC characters to both fight as and fight against. Her attacks hit hard and have good range, but her speed and frame advantage are below average, which keeps her fairly balanced. When you lose to a Byleth player, your more likely to believe that they didn't just cheese you and actually played pretty well.
Byleth is Valid as a Mario main turned Sheik main I HATED her on release until I learned the matchup. I use Corrin a lot too. W Vid btw
Sonic Haxd Cool i have a Question is there a Way to fight the CPU in MK Armagedon? Outside of Arcade mode i mean! i would be fine to have Cpu and non regenerating life in Practice!
Yeah I main Byleth in Ultimate.
@sonic-jj1uw It could be that Japan really loves RPG characters, and since Nintendo is a Japanese company their obligated to pander to that demographic.
This is why Banjo fells like a miracle to me because without the ballet, he would have never have gotten in, because unlike most characters Banjo is very western.
I’ve always despised the “too many anime swordsmen” argument because it completely misunderstands the actual core issue and offers no actual solution to that issue. I definitely think merging the characters would be a solid direction to go, even though it would probably be more difficult for some than others. Like, Lucina and Marth could fit together well enough, though I feel like you’d struggle to make someone like Alm match the same model and silhouette as Ike.
@ATProductions96 Exactly. I mean the sword is honestly just one of the most iconic weapons of all time, so of course a lot of iconic characters use one, even outside of gaming. Even then, if you actually do a count, not even half the roster of Smash Ultimate carry blades. More often than not it's really just an excuse for for people to hate on things with an anime aesthetic (which itself is really broad and vague when you stop and think about it) when they would have preferred for THEIR pick to make the roster.
That said, there IS definitely an argument to be made for swordsmen in Smash having similar movesets, though that really only applies to the Fire Emblem and Zelda reps.
istg i'm one "too much anime swordfighter" away from commiting mass genocide
jokes aside, i hate how people really actually use "too much anime swordfighter" as a, actual, genuine, formal, serious argument. Like honestly its one of the stupidest, if not the absolute stupidest argument i've ever heard regarding sword characters. How i can describe it perfectly is like "oh crap the submarine is drowning, welp time to complain to the captain about why i hate the paint of the submarine, i hate the color green!"
@@GoldLight73 Yeah because by this flawed logic, you could claim Meta Knight, Pit, and even Joker are "anime swordsmen" because they all use some form of bladed weapon. Hell Kazuya is easily the most "anime" style character in the game if you ask me.
@@jmaster4941 same thing with the links
@@jmaster4941 Most of the swordsmen are RPG characters, and Americans have a hard time liking RPGs.
No one complains about Kazuya because Tekken has a realistic anime look. The same thing can not be said for Dragon Quest and Xenoblade 2.
On the one hand, that is a good way to keep as many reps throughout Smash as possible. On the other, it is a disappointing thought to lose some unique play styles by making some characters pallet swaps. The examples most near and dear to me are Wolf and Roy. And yes said unique, try playing them like Fox and Marth respectively and see the difference.
Indeed
@@xenocross6597 Thats because making unique play styles is hard to due without Smash being unbalanced.
Actually, I feel like Azura would’ve been a great choice as the Fates rep, since she is one of the most iconic characters of the game and tho I love playing Corrin, have a moveset that mixes dancing lance moves, singing and water magic would be sick as hell.
What a great idea! I mean, she is too important in fates story and has a lot of potencial but corrin is the protagonists. Shit happens
Fates shouldn't be in Smash after Ult, the only good one was CQ and that's entirely because of its pretty good gameplay and very good map design
@Xenocross by that logic every FE character except Marth and Ike should be removed, because most FE characters only get 1 game anyways and lot of those also aren't good...
@@V-Jes I disagree, I think that the only FE games that are truly bad are FE6, FE12, Fates Revelations and pretty much all the spin-offs aside from the Warriors title. I think overall, if we just got rid of Roy, Lucina and Chrom, who are all clones of Marth, I think people would’ve been more okay with the FE reps in smash
@@maximeminassian6002 Revelation isn't that bad at all as gimmicky as the maps get, tho are you forgetting Gaiden?
The funny thing, Lucina was going to be a costume for Marth like Dr.Mario for Mario but Sakurai decided to make them full characters instead.
So this idea was on the table but they decided to go the Echo route instead.
It was unironically because of Dark Pit that the idea got scraped
Adding it to the list.
Lucina just seems like a skin for Marth save for Damage output she seems pretty unfinished out of the clones she’s practically a skin
@@seasonembrace3624 Uh... the entire point is that she's more reliable...
Yeah I know I don’t mean to come across as a jerk spouting complaints. Just she kind of sticks out to me out of the clone/echo fighters in ultimate she doesn’t seem like much work was put into her compared to the other similar move set characters honestly makes her come across as kinda just a model swap in similar vain to Daisy Richter Dark-Samus. I respect Sakurai but it just seems like he and his team didn't really make her stand out at all unlike how Roy does from Marth
I think what would really help FE's rep is for Nintendo to stop treating it as an ad for the games. Pretty much 5 of the 8 characters in Ult are the main protagonist of their respective game, and 3 of that five look and play pretty similarly at face value. I know they had to do thag in Melee since not too many people in the west knew the series existed and had both Marth and Roy in there to spread awareness, but the franchise hasn't been considered niche since Awakening. I think if they used the more requested side characters, then we would have to deal with "ugh another sword character" since swords aren't the only weapons the FE characters use.
Sorry to break the news bro but Smash is a gigant ad to every other Nintendo and 3rd party ip thats why in those Sakurai presents directs he tells the audience (as an example)"you can play Terry Bogard and discover his origins on the Fatal Fury and KOF franchise with the arcade archives available on the Eshop" thats why he even said Xbox and Micrsfot in the Banjo direct to let the players know about Microsoft products(xbox,gamepass etc.)
@@Syfcobra8549
No shit. Yet all these other characters got in for actually being popular, being obscure, and adding new stuff to the game. Rather than SOLELY being for advertisement like Roy and Corn, who games weren't even out when they were added, or Byleth, whose was... for like 6 months before he got added, and was done in conjunction with DLC, making it blatantly obvious that his inclusion was more "business move" rather than "people really want this character in" or "this character would be cool to add in". Terry wasn't put in to advertise an upcoming or really recent KoF game, but because Sakurai is a fan of KoF/SnK fighting games, and his inclusion gives us the closest thing to CvS3 we'll ever get since Ryu and Ken are already in the game. And Banjo is a beloved N64 icon that people have been wanting in for a long time as opposed to getting in solely to promote the upcoming Banjo Threeie or Nuts & Bolts Tooie.
@@espurrseyes42 You could still argue that Hero was added solely to promote DQ11S for Switch. Sora was also definitely added to promote those shitty KH Cloud Versions so let's not act like FE is the sole franchise that gets advertised. Smash Bros is one giant ad in itself.
@@jmaster4941 Awakening is originally going to be the last Fire Emblem ever, thankfully it sold well so the series isn't dead.
I sorta understand the idea of merging the characters for FE but extending that to other characters is a hard pill to swallow. If Mario and Luigi became skins of the same moveset, I think that would rub people the wrong way.
The worst thing you can do in a fighting game is make players feel that their favorite character are just a set of functions rather than a character deserving of a thoughtful moveset
Echo fighters only work if the clone has the exact same body structure as the original. Mario and Luigi have similar designs but they’re not exact.
I'm not too sure on this idea, since there's more differences in characters like Ike to Marth, than there is in Alph to Olimar, by having them be just costumes or "archetypes" you ignore their personality traits and getting rid of why someone likes those characters in the first place, so an Akuma being a costume for Ryu wouldn't really work if it was an Akuma costume rather than being inspired in Akuma
Exactly!
Chrom being implemented as an alt for Ike as Heavy lord in this video kind of feels ironic since people were speculating him to be a clone of Ike before he was added. The fact that they made him an echo of Roy despite Roy and Lucina already fighting similarity to Marth pretty much just added more to people's issues with FE in Smash and I rarely see people mention him specifically. It kind of feels weird that Corrin and Byleth got the most flack when they're some of the most unique FE reps, while Chrom didn't get much flack when he was essentially another Marth
I believe people don't mention Chrom because of the tease from Smash 4, also his moveset being based off of Marth/Roy makes canonical sense due to him being related to Marth and Lucina with his up B being Aether due to him having Aether in the game
If he was not teased in Sm4sh it would definitely warrant more hate though as it would just be a waste of an echo slot
Fuck I hate to spam reply but it also allows a version of Roy to exist without having a sweetspot so also that could be a reason due to people liking Lucina over Marth for that reason
If all the characters are just costumes ala Koopalings, which isn't an inherently bad idea, I'm just concerned if the animations and mannerisms would fit the characters
The problem with this is that **the fe characters do indeed play differently and are not interchangeable** . Yes they are mostly built off of marth. But their differences are key to how they play. For example, Lucina doesn’t have his tipper, so she is more reliable with kills and a safer option, despite a lower skill ceiling. Roy has an opposite hit box to Marths tipper and is ever so slightly heavier. This makes a **massive** difference in how he’s played, combos, skill requirements, etc. as a marth main, playing roy was similar to playing fox in terms of change in play style. Ike is different enough, no need to speak on that, and chrome acts as a roy to Ike. Very similar on paper, but very evident why one is preferred in competitive whilst the other is not. Corrin, Robin and byleth are self explanatory; quite different characters, only similarities being the series, art style and sword in hand.
YES
I honestly think it would be a terrible idea. For existing characters, while there are a lot of people who main them because of their design or personality, there are arguably more who main them for there gameplay. And if those Characters gameplay was just gotten rid of and they staid around altunate costumes, people's reactions wouldn't be "at least there still in the game" it would be "this isn't the character I main, don't lie to me". And for new characters the reaction would be basicly nothing at best, or anger at worst as a character someone was exited to see how smash tackles is just boild down to them litterly being an altunate costume. The reason the koopalings worked is because they didn't really have a good idea for a moveset besides a bunch of references, they were waluigi without the meme value. And the heroes worked because all the heroes across the dragon quest games were basically the same character.
Nah. FE fans would accept it especially if they keep their personality and voice lines. Roy literally shared Marth's animations in FE6, Smash is the one that made shit up.
@@nuibaba280 my main argument was that its not just about who the charecter is, its how they play and you litterly completly ignored that.
another thing is that the Koopalings don't have huge or complex personalities, so that made them work in Smash, FE characters don't seem like that
@@terydtl4427 Problem is, that's out the window when half of the FE characters play similarly.
@@nuibaba280 similarly, not exactly. Yes you can play marth and get a good idea on how to play Roy, but if you try to play Roy in the exact same way as marth you will fail. Same with basically every other clone in smash with the exaption of the echoes and Dr mario.
this is actually a pretty good idea, other good examples for existing characters could be belmont (with maybe trevor and julius as extra characters) or PK User (adding ninten as another character, claus could work as well I guess but if he got in I'd perfer him to be repped in a different way)
How have they not added Anna yet, you can make her moveset what ever and she's the only one in every game.
I like the idea but I think the idea of echo fighters should stay and be worked on. Some popular characters are too different to be a skin but similar enough to not justify a full fledged character
The idea of archetypes can also work pretty well with the zelda characters like for example Link having the looks from the most iconic zelda games like Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess, Skyward sword or Breath of the wild.
Which is what they tried to do with his alts. They messed up how FD Link looks hard tho...
Assuming the voice and personality variation would be on par with Daisy and Richter, I'd be ok with combineing folks especially FE.
it's an interesting idea, but the problem for me is that rhese characters lose a LOT of their uniqueness when they have different animations, hit boxes, taunts, etc. Like M!Robin and F!Robin work because they're basically the same character, or at least very similar. you can't really do that with Marth and Chrom when Chrom feels more heavy and tough than Marth, or Mario and Luigi when they're basically completely distinct characters now.
that's just my opinion tho, it's an interesting idea either way :)
That's a problem on problem sandwich though as explained in the video Lucina completely replace Marth in terms of skill due to her lower hitbox and higher sword moves
Is uniqueness great when it's just better than the previous character maybe not
They explained Marth and Chrom would be seperate though? Like it was specified there would be a regular lord and heavy lord archetype and Chrom fits into the latter for Ike, which makes plenty of sense
@@Doralga idk about that. Like Lucina, Doctor Mario, Daisy, Dark Pit, etc. could all very well be alts, but then Luigi is a character completely different from Mario. Ken Sakura and Akuma, even if they all take ideas from Ryu, have their own flair, moveset differences and animations that make them different (especially Sakura and Akuma). Imagine if Akuma got into the game and he did nothing that made him cool like the one handed blasts or his super, but instead was a Ryu skin.
some characters wouldn't fit well at all, like Alm is left handed, can't do any firey attacks Ike has, and would probably be more rushdown/ quick than Ike could even dream of. Imagine if Gardevoir or Impa got in and instead of having their own unique moveset they were relegated to being Mewtwo and Greninja skins. at that point I'd rather have them be newcomers or not come at all.
@@Hebleh I'm just saying, cuz even then Chrom can't do things like Ike's neutral special, and it'd be hard to imagine him being as heavy as Ike. in the end it's an interesting idea and does work for some characters (Like the Belmont's could totally do that), but then others I'd rather not have them be changed that majorly, or lose what makes them unique moveset wise.
@@Hebleh I like that Idea Chrom was always seemed heavier to me and frederick training Chrom in his early years cements that idea
I don't think they'll ever do this for Lucina because once they make her character model, they really only need to make some tweaks to her stats to make her an echo. Also, I feel like the smash team would be reluctant to downgrade characters who were full characters before since it would be a downgrade for them.
Instead of making Luigi more similar to Mario, I would actually rebuild him from the ground up as a Luigi's Mansion character - those games are popular enough to get their own character and it would help the new game stand out from Ultimate
Azura from Fates was a major character in all three routes with Fates and was just as important to the overall plot to that game as Corrin. She was also the first dancer Lord and Fates advertising made a huge deal about her more than the protagonists and was just as popular, probably more than, all 3 protagonists Corrin, Ryoma, and Xander. They did it before with Robin (who was available first) and Min Min and neither of them are the face of their games, just the most important.
I actually think it'd be a disservice to make some of these characters costumes. Sure it'd work but chrom wouldn't fit Ike's moveset that well having been closer to Roys moveset already. Roy's in your face sword playstyle is also a fan favorite. Fan outcry got him in sm4sh. I'd honestly rather have them cut with room to return later except for lucina. She is the only one to fully fit just being a costume since her whole thing is mimicking Marth. I could see them keeping the same group as you but with less of a costume focus. Then maybe bringing back Roy as dlc/an update but no more unless they go out of their way to re-add characters again
Agreed.
This seems reasonable. Too bad a) even if Nintendo did implement this I imagine they would manage to fuck it up (badly) and b) some people would definitely rage over Roy getting re-Norted by Marth.
One idea I had for Pokemon is to just make them all a part of the Pokemon Trainer, and during char. select you can choose up to 3 different monsters you wanna fight with. This would mean even new Pokemon would be simply additions to the Trainer and wouldn't take as much space on the select page.
Leif was never meant to be the Marth clone of Melee. That's been disproven already as the source who said this admitted they made the whole thing up. Roy was always meant to be the Marth clone no matter how you slice it and dice it.
I got into Fire Emblem Franchise because of Super Smash Bros. So I really love the idea for more characters to appear in Smash. But I understand that alot of fans of Smash don't approve alot because of Half Rosters of Smash Ultimate with Fire Emblem Rep has Copy's of Marth:
• Marth's Copy (Roy, Chrom, & Lucina)
• Marth's Non-Copy (Ike, Robin, Corrin, & Byleth)
So for future Idea's it would be cool for how we can fix the problem after Byleth's introduction and movesets set up besides using just swords & Alear for Fire Emblem Engage introduction as well. Basically I want only all protagonist that reps different from their timelines & continents to appear for the next Smash 6 for 2025 or later. Here's what I think would be great idea if they continue Echo Fighters & Palette Swaps:
• Archanea/ Ylisse Timeline Rep (Marth, Chrom, Robin, & Lucina)
• Valentia/ Valm Timeline Rep (Alm & Celica)
• Jugdral Timeline Rep (Leif)
• Elibe Timeline Rep (Roy)
• Magvel Timeline Rep (Eirika)
• Tellius Timeline Rep (Ike)
• Fates Timeline Rep (Corrin)
• Fodlan Timeline Rep (Byleth)
• Elyos Timeline Rep (Alear)
Reasons:
• Marth & Lucina- Stay the Same but Lucina is a Palette Swap instead of Echo Fighter
• Chrom- Instead of Roy's Echo Fighter, let him be Echo Fighter for Ike because of Similarities
• Robin- Stay the Same
• Alm & Celica (New)- Duo Characters like Pyra & Mythra
• Leif (New)- Recently New Character for Smash 6, because he was going to be in Melee but replaced with Roy instead. Let him be Roy's Echo Fighters but different weapon abilities & using Light Element attack (Ex: Pyra's Fire & Mythra's Light/ Axe, Lance, & Bow Attack similar to Byleth special & as an Emblem from Engage)
• Roy- Stay the Same.
• Eirika (New)- Recently new character for Smash 6, because she's the only timeline game of Magvel not having the chance to be in any Smash games at all, same for her Twin Brother Ephraim.
• Ike- Stay the Same.
• Corrin- Stay the Same.
• Byleth- Stay the Same.
• Alear (New)- Recently new Avatar for future Smash 6.
Total Fire Emblem Reps: 13 Character (10 Main Roster/ 2 Echo Fighters/ 1 Palette Swaps)
Pretty good idea. One issue i'll see is that people maining the characters that become pallet swap of other character would get upset, but if it's just the gameplay that is the main concern, then their moveset can be repurposed for another archetype. If for example Marth and Roy were merged, then Roy's moveset could be used by aformentioned light lord.
It is definetely a better solution than just cutting them completely. Smash will face the same problem Pokemon had sooner rather than later.
I think one issue is that litterally everyone they chose is a sword user from fire emblem, I've only had the chance to play the older ones like gba, Snes and heroes and I feel like they could have a rep of axe user or a spear or bow users and it could have easily represented those characters. I was also litterally crossing my fingers to have the meme lord dorcus in the game who's an axe character but of course nope
Nobody would complain about Byleth and Corrin if completely redundant characters like Lucina and Chrom just didn't exist. And Roy, as much as I love him, is only in the most recent game as nostalgiabait and was a weird selection for Melee in the first place.
Folding characters into other characters as costumes is fine, but ultimately Marth, Lynn, Ike, Byleth, and Robin would be an excellent lineup without a lot of redundancy and only needing one new movepool for Lynn (and if you want to get cheeky, you could give her a lot of Sephiroth's neutral as a base)
Sounds like a good idea, but it can make them lose their unique traits which is up to them to decide.
It could work. Though there is also the fact that there are ZERO villains from FE in the roster. Every nintendo franchise represented, barring F-zero and MOTHER, has a villain or at least a rival to butt heads with the main rep of the series. One big argument is to include the Black Knight, who was wanted enough that he made it in as an assist trophy, meaning there is something there.
Facts.
So they should've made them fkin skins!
The fact we didn't get Rayman Spyro or Crash Bandicoot is such a disappointment
Piranha plant was the only original dlc character we got and that's a meme character
Are you forgetting Steve from goddamn Minecraft???
@@jmaster4941 I think the only reason Steve got in, is because Sakurai likes sword characters. Except this time it's a sword character that everyone wants, even if design Steve was REALLY hard😮💨😮💨😮💨😮💨😮💨.
I agree for the most part, but I would like to point out Fates DOES have a neutral character that isn’t a sword fighter - Azura.
Azura is a dancer class, it works in an RPG but in Smash thats harder for to take seriously.
I think your idea characters being costume alts is pretty good, but I don't think they would do it because they would likely have to record some new voice clips for older characters and that doesn't seem as easy to do considering they would have to rehire old voice talent for that and that would make them also question if would it be worth the added expenses. This Fire Emblem design issue is mainly just a issue to the FE / anime haters, who overexaggerate and generally argue in bad faith anyway considering the whole point of Ultimate was to bring every playable character back.
Its not like they don't already have the va's on hand.
Every FE character in Smash was also in the latest game Engage. Plus they're constantly pulled back in to do alts in Heroes. Marth and Ike's VAs for instance voice 2 different main protagonists, respectively.
I think the archetype idea of yours is honestly genius and is something I can totally see them doing in the next smash game, which I can also see as very likely being a reboot of the series!!
This is probably the single best argument I've seen in favor of using what are essentially Premiere skins from Injustice to give people the characters they want.
Facts.
I like this idea. I was actually thinking about a way to condense the roster to include new characters, though for Lucina and Chrom my idea is THEY become one slot while sharing a slot with Robin. Think Smash Remix secret characters (press the D-pad on the CSS to select them); Robin is the way to access "Awakening" characters. Simon and Richter work like how you shared if they merged movesets and character slots, gives room for say Alucard. Just throwing ideas :)
I agree with this, but I doubt Nintendo would. They'll just keep making the same mistakes like NRS because they're all about quantity over quality for a cheap buck.😕
I don’t think it’s really a problem as long as they do two things:
1. Try to make the newcomers from FE unique regardless of them being more swordfighters (they’ve already been doing that with Robin, Corrin, and Byleth)
2. Prioritize new franchises over repping the old ones. Especially once they get to DLC.
Seriously, Nobody complained about there being too many Fire Emblem characters prior to Corrin being added. The main complaint was that Robin made it in over Chrom. Then, when Chrom was added, I don’t remember there being any complaints. I still believe that there were only complaints when Byleth was added because they were the last character in the first fighters pass, and they probably should’ve changed the order to make Banjo the last one.
Also, I don’t like the idea of sorting characters by archetypes I already think that the Koopalings and Alph should have their own slots, regardless of the fact that they are basically just skins.
Finally, I don’t think the next game will be a complete restart. Now that they’ve brought everyone back, it would feel like too much of a step back if they essentially reset the roster. Personally, I think they’re gonna do the same thing they did with Ultimate and just carry over the assets from the previous game and update the visuals. The only characters I think they’ll actually cut are the ones that they can’t get the rights back for (Sora, Snake, etc.)
Sorry for the tldr
Also, I really don’t think we’re gonna get the Engage protagonist in the next game. I doubt we’re gonna get another Smash that soon.
@@gechoman44iwantahippo Probably a good thought. Hoping we get Sigurd or Leif instead, because I'm on the FE4/5 remake train
They kind of have to reset the roster, there are about 90 characters in the game now. It was called ultimate for a reason.
IF they even make another smash, they'd have to start small again.
@@xacmashe3852 The Fire Emblem characters are meant to be the safe characters in Smash. Characters with minimal strengths, but also minimal weakness. Characters like Sephiroth and Hero are the opposite, they have super flashy moves but have big gaping weakness to balance them out.
This is because Fire Emblem is a strategy game, it's not meant to be as flashy as Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest.
There's a reason MKleo loves Corrin and Byleth, competitive fans usually prefer the safe characters over the flashy high risk high reward characters most of the time.
The FE characters in Smash are basically the Shotos of the series.
Marth = Ryu
Roy = Ken
Lucina = Sakura
Chrom = Akuma
What i would do:
Change Chrom's moveset
Make Lucina a Chrom Echo Fighter
Make Roy a Marth Echo fighter
Keep Ike
Add a "Skill System" for every FE characters in the roster, each unique to the character
Example: Roy gets Wrath, when % higher than 80%, if perfect parry, increases knockback on next attack
Add Sigurd and Hector as newcomers
If too much, one of the two
Sigurd:
Sigurd is a lance/sword mounted unit so a horse model and a dismount system would have to be made but the system could also be reused for other characters such as Link if a new moveset is made
Hector:
Hector is an armored axe unit so he would most likely be as heavy as K rool and Bowser, have super armor on his smash attacks like his spirit in Smash Ultimate does and good strength, he's pretty reckless so maybe adding a recoil mechanic for bigger damage and knockback would be satisfying
I think that those two would be pretty neat FE additions for Smash compared to someone like Lyn that would in my opinion feel "too generic" or would have to appear as another marth echo fighter with her own skillset to make it interesting without having to steal another character slot due to lower effort
I'd like to see Snake become an archetype! Could have Solid Snake, Big Boss, Raiden (mgs2), and Old Snake!!
Solid's costumes could be his sneaking suit from mgs1 and 2 (one with the thermal jacket and one without), Big Boss could have the tiger stripe camo and one of his many sneaking suits, Raiden could have his skull suit and the BDU, and Old Snake could switch between a clean or damaged version of his Octo Camo suit!
Ironically enough Sakurai originally wanted Lucina to be Marth’s alt, but chose not to because he thought “her move set felt too unique to be a costume”.
Drop Chrom and Lucina and turn them into costumes, give Roy and Ike their sword beams and Ike his axe Urvan. Then add Veronica from Fire Emblem Heroes for villain rep (she's the only villain the series would realistically get), and then you can add Alear whenever we get the inevitable avatar addition.
You can add Lyn and Micaiah optionally if you want but the above is how you best fix this, I've preached this for over 5 years
Arvis would like to barbeque your location
There are a lot of good ideas here, but you seem to be conflating same properties with same moves. Roy is less like Lucina to Marth and more like Young to Toon Link. He does have the same moves, but their playstyle is night and day. Roy is aggro rushdown, and Marth is footsie space combat. Rolling Roy into Marth would delete Roy (who is one of my mains, I would NOT appreciate that).
Pichu has a different size and weight class, and Young and Toon are a lot like Marth/ Roy - completely different playstyles. So you effectively delete playstyle choices and alienate people. Yes, Lucina and Marth should share a slot, and maybe Chrom and Ike too. Ryu and Ken are different in Street Fighter, and Akuma DEFINITELY is different from them. Ganondorf used to just be a modified Captain Falcon, and even back in Melee, they had different playstyles. Luigi? He definitely ain't Green Mario, not in Smash.
People would be furious if their main suddenly lost all individuality and played like a character they liked less. So while Peach/Daisy, Marth/Lucina, and Chrom/Ike would work, it's definitely not a thing that should be applied to the whole roster.
Dude, Nintendo should hire you.
I think smash Bros would improve if all the characters were deleted and the sandbag was playable
😆
It's one of my problems with Jump Force, Asta is the only character representing Black Clover, Bleach has the most characters and while I like that series there are other characters from other Shonen Jump series I would've liked seeing included
I still wonder why Asta is the only black clover character to this day
@@radiantwolf9724 Yeah, I would've loved seeing Yuno, Yami and Noelle
@@duncananderson2113 true they would have been awesome
@@radiantwolf9724 Yeah
@@radiantwolf9724 Im not sure if Black Clover was well received.
It's basically a best of both worlds.
FE Enjoyers get their favorite lords in the game under a costume
Smash Players enjoy the fact that there are "less" fire emblem characters on the roster
Win-Win Situation
How did no one ever think of making Kiran the Pokemon Trainer!? That's freaking genius, and that would be the 3rd to 5th FE characters without counters!
I think Robin can also use the alt character costume idea too besides Morgan, with Celica and Owain. Laugh at that last choice, but Owain is a master of both sword and magic. Maybe he even gets an Odin costume while Celica also gets a classic/brave costume in the same vein as the opposite genders for Robin. And I also think Byleth could get this treatment too with Anna, someone who basically sells all the weapons throughout the series (you could even make her lack mobility because she carries such a heavy load like her her Awakening self in FEH. Although not sure how you could deal with her up special). My best bet for a Corrin alt that isn't Kana would probably be Tiki, since she can use weapons like swords in Awakening (but then again, everyone could use anything in that game).
I would kill hostages for an Owain skin/alt/echo.
Owain would actually work tho lol... for the most part. And Celica... would need some tweaking
I think they could make this, but keeping the characters that are already echo fighters as that. Reassigning them as skins would make people complain a lot cuz the character they mained doesn't feel the same.
Like always, you never disappoint when it comes to roster ideas 4thsnake.
Some facts. I felt like Fire Emblem needs some Villain Reps to be Playable too.
@@maxleon61702 The problem is that villains are hard to balance. Ridley disappointed a lot of people. Even Sephiroth has mixed options because of how light weight he is. A Fire Emblem villain would suffer the same problem.
@@orangeslash1667 my mate, a few facts.
@@maxleon61702 Ridley th-cam.com/video/Xt86DyW4wio/w-d-xo.html
Sephiroth-th-cam.com/video/grFdaIsBkqA/w-d-xo.html
That could be a neat idea, like. Any fighter from a returning FE installment is required to fit a unit class that has yet to be represented in Smash so that way, additional skins can be coded in for other examples of that unit.
Marth will be the Basic Lord and have Leif as one of his Alt
Roy's backhand slashing makes him a Blazing Lord and have his dad Eliwood and Threcia's Sigurd as alts.
Ike's Heavy Lord class serves as a window for prince Xander of Nohr.
Navarre's Samurai Swordfighter status adds Ryoma to complete the Fates representation with Hoshido.
Not counting already programmed-in fighters (official or otherwise, thank god for PMEX) Awakening's Frederick representing the cavalier class allows Cain and Abel to join Marth and Gunter to get memed on. ('I'm gonna be useless soon!')
I can totes see Fire Emblem reps with archery moves able to send floating characters into a full meteor smash-style freefall. Can you imagine Virion shooting Princess Peach out of the sky?
To be honest, I've already thought about this, and, while I wouldn't group Luigi with Mario as a plumber archetype, since Luigi has plenty of possible unique moves, but I would group Dr. Mario with Mario, because here's the thing.
Custom movesets.
Okay, so, the Smash 4 custom moveset thing didn't really pan out, but, what about the more simple solution? Variations. These are basically the variations in Mortal Kombat X, except they act more as modifiers, and in some cases, a slight moveset change. For example, for Mario, you could have the Plumber variation and the Doctor variation, where he'll throw pills and doesn't use FLUDD. Or, for Marth, give him a Just-The-Tip variation or the Full Mast variation, I dunno, maybe have a Flaming variation or something.
For Samus, have a Power Suit variation and a Phazon variation.
And, like, by default, every character just uses the first variation, and you could switch it by clicking on an icon next to your character portrait.
I mean, my idea would have also included costume shaders (recolors) and even full character customization (swapping costume parts, like Mario's cap for the Builders cap), but that'd probably be too much to ask for Nintendo.
If I could redo the FE Smash cast with hindsight, it would be:
Marth (Sword/Mascot/Famicon)
Lucina alt
Hector (Axe/GBA)
Black Knight (Villain/Heavy Armor/Gamecube)
Robin (Magic/Awakening/ Custom Character)
Awakening Tiki (Manakete/Non-weapon Fighter)
Admittedly, it could be younger Tiki for size variety, but I don't like the "1000 year old person in child's body," trope.
Azura (Lance/ Fates/ "Dancer"/ somehow a better protagonist of Fates than Corrin)
Byleth (Whip Sword/ 3 Houses)
Anna (Bow/ Knives & Shuriken/ Staves? Maybe?/ Mascot/ Smash-original design)
This covers a lot of ground game and weapon-wise while keeping 8 reps of reasonably likely and important characters.
Other characters considered being Alm, Python, & Berkut from Echoes, Claude from 3 Houses, and Sharena, Heroes Anna, Fjorm, and Veronica from Heroes.
I like this idea. On another hand, could you do a rewrite of FE Fates? Something similar to your MK rewrite series since I did enjoy Fates, but the story did have a lot of missed opportunities
There is a manga based on Fates.
Originally. Lucina was going be an alternate costume for Marth like the Wii Fit Trainer and Robin back in Smash 4. But then they wanted to make her unique enough to be her own fighter
Another thing I think would be funny would be letting Ike and Roy shoot projectiles from their swords, since the Ragnel and Binding blade are both 1-2 range weapons. Also letting Ike use an axe, preferably the Urvan
Actually, I remember people wanted Azura to be the fates rep. She appears on all the routes, and her combo of dancer unit with a spear would make for a unique play style. Alas, Sakurai went with the extremely bland avatar character, Corrin, which really didn’t help with the backlash.
I think the only reason Corrin was chosen is because he has wings. Sakurai is bias for winged characters like Bayonetta and Joker.
I feel like combining some characters together wouldn’t work. The proportions of some characters are too different like Pichu and Pikachu. So some sharing everything just wouldn’t work.
The hate that Byleth got when it was revealed was so unfair, the character is so unique and fun to play
Also FE needs a villian rep like the Black Knight Path of Radiance or Cornelia from 3 houses or more diversity in the clases like a Dancer user like Azura from Fates or a Magician like Miriel from Awakening
Facts. I prefer a Villain though because well, why not?
@@maxleon61702 The Good news is that Roy's purple alt is a reference to Zephiel and Ike's black alt is a reference to the Black Knight. The other problem is that villains are usually very hard to design, Ganondorf is proof of that. Sakurai said that Steve was extremely hard to design so. So that means that Sakurai can't make any cool concept work.
Yep.
@user-px3hw5kz2x How is Byleth not unique he has a (whip Sword)???? That type of weapon is not used often, other than say Ivy from Soul Caliber.
@user-px3hw5kz2x Sword characters are meant to be the perfect balance of speed and Range. Brawler characters have speed, but their lack of range makes them hard to use. th-cam.com/video/Zisu_1jljk0/w-d-xo.html
With Fire Emblem Engage released, something had me wondering… I doubt this will happen, but what if the entire Fire Emblem side of Smash’s roster gets cut? Instead, all we’re getting is Alear, and what if any of his/her Smash moves involve using the emblem rings? There was so much flack in Smash with more new Fire Emblem characters introduced or certain ones never included and are instead in the roles of Assist Trophies. But what if all of it won’t matter because in Engage all of your favorite FE characters are spirits bound inside rings? If any of Alear’s movesets are ring-based, what does it mean for the fighters themselves? Do all them get cut for the sake of consistency? Are all hopes of Lyn being playable completely dashed? The release of Engage has me left questions about the future of Smash…
(Btw, I believe Twili Midna should be Zelda’s echo fighter)
(Dr. Mario as an alternate skin for Mario)
(Raichu as Pikachu’s echo fighter; completing the “Chu” trio; assuming Pichu doesn’t get cut)
(Octoling as either an echo fighter or alternate skin for Inkling)
Maybe some people will be happy. But there gonna be bigger part where people would been enraged.
I'd say the problem with this idea, at this point, is that it is sadly a tad bit too late. Could've been great way back while they were working on it.
We need a villain on the roster. Black Knight would be so badass
My boy Ephraim is being overlooked, he's the one of the few main lord in the franchise who uses a lance. Make him an alt of Dimitri, and Hector an alt of Hedelgar and I'll be very happy
Yeah, it’s sad cause he’s the goat
Every series' fighters should have quality over quantity
Just searched your channel at random to see if you uploaded and the first recommendation was from five minutes ago, neat.
I don't think that would work at all.
It's fine for Alph, the Koopalings, certain FE Lords and Simon / Richter who might have distinct personalities but don't really differ animations-wise or the Heroes who are pretty much the same character. But reducing every character to just a series of moves strips them completely of their identity and clashes with the idea of overhauling older movesets. It'd be one step forward for Mario but two steps back for Luigi for example if he's less distinct than he was in even the first game. Even if they're present as an alt, the character themself would still be cut either way.
Echo fighters take up a lot less time to make than a regular character does. They aren't taking a slot away from anyone else. They're last minute extras at worst.
Wolf in brawl was specifically chosen because they could slot him in last minute and he's a lot more distinct from his base character than the echos are.
And Wolf was HEAVILY different from Fox and Falco. That excuse doesn't work.
Funny enough, a lot of the FE roster being just the basic lord archetype and many of them being based around Marth probably wouldn't be much of an issue if we just had 1 rep per FE game, with Robin being the sole rep for Awakening instead of also having Lucina and Chrom as echoes. That'd pretty much make it to where only the original 3 Fire Emblem characters added to Smash would have the basic lord archetype, with Marth and Roy being the only ones fighting similarly to each other, Ike being unique from them with him being a heavy lord, and Robin, Corrin and Byleth also being unique while adding in other weapons and abilities
I say they can add as many swordboys as they want as long as they add Hector.
I'm intrigued. You took the words right out of my mouth.
Roy is a melee clone so of course he is similar. But chrom and lucina are echo fighters that are developed and referred to as clones that does not take up that much development time. There is Marth, his clone Roy and the rest are unique.
I like with the idea of Smash 6 being a reboot, that Samus would mainly pull from Dread and Link from Tears of the Kingdom
Love the idea, would also be very happy if there's finally a Jugdral representative in smash, because FE 4 and 5 are my favourite games.
Here’s an idea. Nintendo should just collaborate with Arc System Works and make a Fire Emblem fighting game already. I already have a good concept of the roster made.
I’m afraid of this idea because smash fans might use this as a scapegoat
@@radiantwolf9724 Why would they use this as a scapegoat?
@@JcgLounge because they may use it as an excuse so no more fe characters can get in
@@radiantwolf9724 Ah. I see. Tbh, I don’t care what FE characters make it in to Smash Bros. As long as they look cool and their gameplay slaps. Now I do agree that we may have a bit too many of them. But then again, we also have an over abundance of Pokémon and Mario Characters taking up half the roster as well. And I get that those two are Nintendos most popular franchises but I don’t see people complaining about them so…Nintendo won’t stop bring FE into Smash tho. Doesn’t seem likely.
The way I see it: Fire Emblem is a franchise that, much like Pokémon, would suit perfectly for its own fighting game. With the right developer, we don’t have to complain about FE taking up a Smash roster because we could have a potentially great fighting game with all our favorite FE heroes and villains. Add that to the fact that Nintendo would probably feel better about this game being in the esports scene than they are with Smash.
@@JcgLounge that’s true
Thank you for talking about fire emblem even if it is for smash. We've been in the shadows for so long.
Crazy how we have tons of FE characters but no dedicated axe, spear or mount user.
While I think this would have been a good solution if we started this way by now there is no reason other than "pleasing the haters" (which we all now would be temporary at best) to cut or merge the Fire Emblem roster. Especially if we ever get a next Smash Bros game it would most likely cut some of the returnees so keeping them seperate would slightly lessen the percieved roster cut that will happen.
A duo of Alm and Celica where you can swap between them like Pyra/Mythra. Alm being the slower more powerful side and Celica being the lighter, faster, and all around more agile side. She is also a mage so they could include that.
Down special for both would be swap, like other fighters of this style
Alm would have falchion, but also use a bow
Celica would have Ladyblade, and also Ragnarok for offensive use (and takes damage when she uses it) as well as the light magic version of nosfuratu (because she is a priestess.
He has higher attack and launch power, but is slower and heavier. She is faster and has a longer dodge window, but doesnt knockback as much or deal as much damage.
Their final smash would be the same regardless of who is active, but Alm's has higher knockback and damage, but attacks a smaller area while Celica's has better range making it harder for opponents to avoid, but doesnt knockback as far or deal as much damage.
This is just Pneuma but FE. and wouldn't the FS be the final blow on Duma?
@@xenocross6597 it could be, its just a theorycraft.
This actually reminds me of the Fire Emblem in Smash video Schaffrillas Productions made, even the opening reminded me of the point he made. In fact, something tells me that putting the word "real" in the title almost feels like an indirect response to him and his take on the roster. Ah, but how can I watch this, there's no bashing Corrin segment! (Please note my sarcasm in the last sentence, I love playing Corrin)
Honestly in regards to main protags i don't think its accurate to say that the FE protags are a shoe-in because of their status. For instance, Terry is labelled a KOF character instead of Fatal Fury. And the protag of that series is Kyo Kusanagi, Terry isn't even one of the several main heroes there.
And Pyra/Mythra share the role of Deuteragonist to Rex's Protagonist.
The only reason we got the main protags of FE are added is because of advertising. If they wanted to be creative, Chrom and Robin would be a tag character, to not only show off Pair-Up from their game but to also show how the two work in tandem.
The Fire Emblem characters are meant to be the safe characters in Smash. Characters with minimal strengths, but also minimal weakness. Characters like Sephiroth and Hero are the opposite, they have super flashy moves but have big gaping weakness to balance them out.
This is because Fire Emblem is a strategy game, it's not meant to be as flashy as Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest.
There's a reason MKleo loves Corrin and Byleth, competitive fans usually prefer the safe characters over the flashy high risk high reward characters most of the time.
My only problem with the solution is that I feel like at a certain point you can't just group characters together.
admittedly a lot of the examples were awful using characters who do not share proportions or have drastic gameplay differences in their home series. Not every franchise can just be archetyped into one slot as if they were fire emblem and even some examples for fe felt like it would cause some disservice.
2:22 Its an unrelated point from the Main Video's main points and arguments but:
I for one would welcome there being a Warriors Spin off for Every New FE Game going forward ala Dynasty Warriors Main Series and the Empires games being a popular side series with its own fans.
It's funny, Chrom still bothers me despite Awakening being one of my favourite games of all time, yet I would have ENTIRELY been ok with Black Knight as an Ike echo, because I'm desperate for more villains in the roster.
Not an option the Black Knight is an Assist Trophy.
>Keep Marth as is and untouched. He's the basic swordy of the game, and that's fine, especially given that the first swordy and his clone where also part cancerous zoner capable of fighting at nearly any range.
>Cut Roy. He's just a Marth assets dump with flame effects and slightly modified animations (the reverse grip he constantly switches to) and different numbers. And he has no good reason to be even similar to Marth when he's not even from the same world as him.
>Keep Ike, maybe change him up a bit to use axes somehow and that blade beam Ragnell can shoot.
>Robin is fine. He earned his spot on the roster.
>Cut Lucina. She's even more of a Marth clone and only a slightly better canon excuse that's ALSO contradicted by the same canon.
>Corn got in to promo a game that wasn't even out everywhere at the time, and he and his game aren't exactly the most beloved additions to the series. No one asked for this character, and he's just even more padding on an already inflated roster.
>Chrom can stay if he gets decloned to use more of his actual abilities rather than be Marth 4. I'd also be down for Lucina to be a skin for him so that she can still be in the game. Awakening has earned as much given that FE was saved from death and became "popular" because of it.
>Byleth is just more padding, but at least their game was out by their addition, and they're way more unique than Corn or any other FE character. Though his addition does call BS on Rex or Pyra/Mythra not getting added into the base roster or even first DLC wave when 3Houses was out for like 6 months before Byleth got added while I think XC2 was out for nearly a year. NOT counting any pre-release info Sakurai been given and used to get a XC2 fighter into the game before padding the FE roster more than its already been.
FE Roster:
>Marth
>Ike
>Robin
>Chrom (decloned)
>Byleth
This is a pretty efficient way at making more space without just cutting representation 😎
IMO, I'd rather they did the Weapon Triangle Route, or like what they did with the last 3 Main (Non-Lord) character additions from FE: make them unique, even if their main attack weapon is a sword. (Heck, I don't care about tiers; I only liked playing as Lucina because when I unlocked her after playing as Marth in Smash 4, I never looked back and stuck to her, even though she doesn't have the Tip Mechanic Marth has; even so, I rather play Roy over Marth before, but because I think he was removed in Brawl for Ike - whom I also preferred - I ended up just not caring for Marth when I just picked the alt Lord option. It's more preference for me like playing as Ken instead of Ryu.)
Something that I think makes the OC characters stand out over the Lords is that they have gimmicks that showcase their strong suits - Robin being a hybrid of a swordsman and tome user, Corrin being a Manakete that starts off as a melee unit, and Byleth being able to wield all 3 Weapons from each House Leader, showcasing how that game basically every unit is a blank slate that can be customized as you see fit; they give you purpose for them. The most I can see with reworking said reps is to start from scratch, and have different types of Lords or archetypes - Marth as Lord, Ike or Hector as Axe Lord, Corrin or the Manaketes as Manakete, and so on until you have at least reps from each game with something unique to them; only exceptions I find are the mounted units, but that has to do more with basically forcing a Bowser Jr. Situation where said characters are stuck on a mount instead of moving on legs, which by that point, why not just stick to a "Foot Unit" instead.
As an aside, I think "popularity could also help, though it would be heavily skewed in certain directions. Personally, I kind of always wanted to see Hector be added due to how much people seem to like him, plus he'd stand out being an Axe Lord; alternatively, they could also include Knight units instead to showcase a Heavy Unit - Kellam being the one that comes to mind, but I assume there are better picks than him, since his gimmick is being the Knight Unit that gets ignored - and have Myrmidons or Thief units like Jafar or Navarre for swift glass cannons; it's another flavor of sword fighter, but you could make it be more agile. Think hardest part would be picking the rep for each archetype.
Honestly, My issue has always been that there’s no variety in weapon choice. Like seriously! There’s been a whole weapon triangle in Fire Emblem and yet we only really get to see one point of it. There’s axes, Lances. Magic, bows. Hell, we even have fisticuffs in game now, there’s so many characters to choose from and yet we keep getting swords, really sad honestly
The main lords are given swords and Smash is obviously going to pick a main character long before they pick a random unit that will not give you a game over when they die, excluding special circumstances of some chapters here and there. I think what matters most ultimately is not the weapon, but how they play. Like, Ike and Hector would not play that much different despite the different weapon, because an axe is not all that different than a sword from a general baseline.
@@CSwizzleDizzle Pretty much. Even if we got Edelgard, she wouldn't function that differently from Ike because it's still just a heavy hitting short-ranged melee weapon.
@@CSwizzleDizzle If smash was a traditional fishing game spears could be interesting, but not in Smash. Smash usually has simple movesets which means less variety.
I believe one good idea is to put in Fire Emblem characters who don’t use a sword at all. Like add in a Axe-user, a Lance-user, or even a Bow-user. That would actually make more variety than Marth clone #35.
Also for the Links, have Young Link use the masks from Majorca’s Mask in his moveset.
@@danahlrich7519 YES, yes, I've been talking about that one for years
@@danahlrich7519 That is sadly not possible, Sakurai said that Smash is based on a Japanese Arcade game called (Outfoxies). In that game you have Swords, whips, Pistols, Rocket Launchers, Barrels, pie, Soup, but no spears or Axes to be found. So Sakurai isn't sure if a full Axe or Spear user is possible in a platform fighter, which is why we have Byleth?????
This video is so refreshing! Finally someone that properly analyzes why the Fire Emblem cast is the way it is and gives a suggestion that isn’t adding characters that don’t represent their game as well or cutting characters.
I also think costumes could be a good way to properly represent multiple characters, even though I don’t agree with all your ideas for the costumes. I think condensing Marth and Lucina into one could work, but I think Roy has cemented himself as different enough from Marth that it wouldn’t feel right to have him play exactly like Marth. I think Eliwood would make a better costume for Marth personally.
Even then, I think the main problem with the FE representation is variety and how quickly the amount of reps were increasing. The second part we can’t do anything about but the first part is again, half of the characters are Marth clones. I don’t want to get rid of Chrom and Lucina because of how iconic they are to the series so I would suggest putting them on one interchangeable slot and making a new moveset for them like how they are in Warriors. That doesn’t fix the amount of sword wielding lords but it makes most of them at least feel unique.
I do think of a reboot happens, the main ones that will stay are Marth, Ike, Robin, and Byleth. If that’s the case I would add in my Chrom/Lucina idea as well as add in iconic characters that satisfy different archetypes like Anna or Tiki.
Marth, Roy, Robin, Corrin, Ike and Byleth is all we need. Everybody else should be archetype
the problem with FE in smash is that theres not enough of them add Lyn,eliwood,leif,alm,anna,wade
I like this idea and it definitely makes space for specific characters to pop up and not sacrifice other characters. Plus it definitely makes the fire emblem rep feels a bit more balancing comparison to how it was originally and the same could go for all the other representatives. And at this point I think a reboot would be a good idea considering there's no way the next game is gonna reach this level of insanity when it comes to a character roster. Maybe just maybe if something like this happened people would shut up about certain characters not being in the game or at least be cool with the characters they do have...... Who am I kidding they are not gonna shut up about it they will scream until the cows come home if they don't get that 1 character from that 1 game in this not fighting game. That aside I'd be cool with this idea!
While I think it’s a good idea in concept to combine the FE characters as well as other characters. It is just a disservice to the characters themselves because while yes a lot of the Lords of the series do use Swords they have different fighting styles and unlike characters like Hero who is a blank slate and doesn’t have a character really they are just a self insert and the Koopalings and Bower Jr who have very small differences with each other, plus to a lesser extent Alp and Olimar.
Clone character will always exist in fighting games to give a gameplay with slight differences I mean look at the original clone Ken who was just red Ryu but then eventually throughout the games became different from Ryu. Roy was just the same as Marth from the start but then they took a different more rushdown play style from Marth to make him more unique and if you then just made Roy into a palette swap of Ike with no differences would just make fans of that playstyle annoyed that it’s not there anymore. I also do want to mention the examples of Lief as a costume for Marth and Alm as a costume for just wouldn’t fit them as characters. Lief is similar to Marth at the start especially in Thracia 776 but Lief eventually is able to use all weapons and even Magic so they would be better as an echo for Byleth is anything and Alm wouldn’t really play anything like Ike as a bruiser and would fit being an echo of Roy with their fast rushdown plus Alm is the only left handed lord in the series so his animations would have to be different but that honestly is an easy fix most likely.
The thing I think can help fix what this so called problem is just Alear. While I don’t think the characters themselves are a problem because it’s hard to represent FE as a game with its large character pool with very little overlap I think Alear can fix this because of the natural of Engage’s gameplay with which the Emblem Rings. Of course the roster is gonna be cut for the next Smash game if they ever decide to make another of course. I think Marth with echo Lucina will make the roster along with Ike, Robin, Corrin and Byleth for their more unique gameplay and Alear being able to use the power of previous characters of the series. Alear does have their own fighting style but they can make it that they can take on move sets of Roy and other characters of their Emblem rings. It will be hard to do and will make Alear and really complex character to use and to code hell if you want since all of the characters in Smash are emblem rings/bracelets in Engage , Alear can be the sole FE Rep which I doubt will happen
I think they should keep the same amount of characters but change some of the reps for me here’s my choices:
1. Marth
2. Ephraim
3. Ike
4. Robin
5. Shez
6. Hector
7. Byleth
8. Azura
I like Fire Emblem characters in Smash Bros since they since they're all unique and fun to play! unfortunately I haven't played a Fire Emblem game as of now.
Fire Emblem is a strategy RPG series. It's like Chess but more complicated. I recommend FE Blazing Sword.
You found a way to fit Leif from Thracia776 in so this is perfect already lol
While I am not sure alear would join the next smash mainly the timing isn't good but has a decent chance.
But I am calling it now the next FE rep will be a sword wielder with some gimmick, the newer FE reps (robin, corrin & byleth) fits this description and I expect this pattern to continue.
I honestly think Marth and Robin were the only characters that made sense as worthy FE reps, Marth being the first protag and Robin being the protag of Awakening which more or less rebooted FE to be as popular as it is now, also having a magic moveset which is drastically different from Marth. Ike is cool but is just heavy Ike imo with a skightly more diverse moveset but come from much less popular games. Chrom, Roy and Lucina are all variations of Marth tbh and I more or less add Corrin to that group too. Byleth is interesting since their moveset is much more varied like Robin wielding a more diverse range of weapons and require a much different playstyle.
Therefore I think Marth, Robin and Byleth are a worthy trio, Ike would be a worthy 4th if they stay with a heavier sword wielder but that's just my opinion