Stop Buying Filament, Use This 6x CHEAPER Alternative instead
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 พ.ค. 2024
- Pellet 3D Printing offers much more than people can currently imagine, this video will give you a better understanding of the "why".
MY PELLET EXTRUDER SURVEY: ➡️ greenboy3d.de/
Join the Greenboy3D Discord Community HERE ➨ / discord
You can additionally support my project on Patreon / greenboy3d
00:00 Intro
00:52 Differences Pellet and Filament 3D Printing
01:58 Can it Retract?
03:41 Max Flow Rate?
05:02 Max Speed?
06:34 Recycling failed 3D Prints
09:11 Custom Coloring - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![[TH] 2024 PMSL SEA W1D3 | Summer | เคาะ 8 ทีมแรก ที่ไปรอวันอาทิตย์](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eKFbDC1qe38/mqdefault.jpg)
Contribute to the Development by answering MY PELLET EXTRUDER SURVEY: ➡ greenboy3d.de/
Hi
My idea for coloring is using different color inkjet bottles they feeding directly from side your extruder simply using stepper motor pumps. So you can run the color(s) slow or higher speed, or in a mix of different colors into the extruder.
@madison66 hmm🤔
@@madison66 a similar thought occured to me also. Realistically, for any innovative 3d printing system to try and take on the giants like prusa, creality, or bambu labs, then it needs to have an answer to multi material or multi colour systems with a user experience at least half way as refined.
Automated side feeding of colourant into the feeder could be part of that.
@@madison66 theoretically you would only need red blue yellow black and white to make any color combination you could use two or more print heads to achieve full color 3d prints
@@muatok9904 same way like an inkjet printer does, so there's no need of rocket sience
we should skip the PLA production step and just chemically produce PLA at the tip of the nozzle from Lactic acid and a catalyst 😂
Lactic acid does not exist in a pure form. It will always forms chains (polymerisation). You could make a kind of PLA from cornstarch, water, vinegar and glycerol. But... It is very hard do that in a controlled way which is needed for printing. The PLA also has a bad quality, because the chains are very short.
@@wilsistermans1118Water, starch, and glycerin does *not* produce PLA. Instead, when you partiality hydrolyse starch it breaks amylopectin into amylose and dextrin. I've made multiple videos on my channel about Thermoplastic starch.
Really interesting material, but completely different from PLA
😅
Pure pla is kinda mid for 3d printing so you’d also need to produce the other plastics that go into it
Why stop there? Why not genetically modify the corn used to produce pla to grow warhammer minis?
I have access to literal tons of both engineering and commodity resins for free that's thrown away from my workplace. I think you 100% need to pick a nozzle that's optimal for pellet extrusion more so than maintaining broad compatibility.
What place u work for?
Absolutely. This gives so many benefits overall, a small compromise is no problem.
Thank you for your feedback🙂
What would you like to see next?
1kg PETG cost here 6-9 usd per kg. That is so cheap, if it would be free, I would not print more. In the company we also put hugh amounts of PA6 and POM in the junk
Special nozzle all the way. If a standard platform for pellet extruders eventually comes out as a result too, it just means this will have set the ground for that standard! If there is demand, standardization will come, and people will prefer the performance gain and the eventual affordability.
My 2 cents on your question about "standard nozzles": not critical, especially if they are suboptimal for this extrusion technique. Most important is a pellet extruder with optimal heating & retraction results. So if that means a different nozzle type, so be it.
Fantastic work by the way ! 👍 Been saving a ton of PLA parts in the hope of recycling them into new prints. But nothing out there seems affordable in terms of time , money or reliability. Most require recycling into filament first, which feels like a dead end for consumers: too many issues, too time consuming, somewhat expensive.
Your approach that just requires careful grinding seems the most promising to me so far. And seems good enough for my prototyping workflow for functional parts: many iterations, no need for perfect surface quality.
Thanks for your 2 years of effort on this front !
I agree on this. CNC Kitchen even tried to build a high flow nozzle out of a regular brass nozzle and a copper insert when HF nozzles were a novelty. So already manufactured nozzles can be adapted "quick and cheap" with a round copper insert by just press-fitting I guess, and new manufactured nozzles just with one hole less! I am sure that with the visibility you are earning through your videos, you can achieve something like that pretty easily. However, I would let the nozzle compatibility window open.
Agreed - for PLA the time and effort isn't worth it - aesthetic prints like cosplay items, busts, toys etc. wouldn't have the look or shape consistency needed, and the functional parts may not have the tolerances needed - it could be great for printing support or infill perhaps but then that introduces a whole other series of challenges in slicing or IDEX integration. I would recommend this extruder for printing thermoplastic elastomers that are too soft to turn into filament, or perhaps make printed parts from materials other than standard and widely available filaments.
Thank you for your great input :)
A question that can't get out of my mind is what people would do if they had a nozzle clog, which can happen on any 3D printer due to some particle blocking the nozzle hole.
If the "special nozzle" is not easily available globally because only I am selling it, then this might be a problem. Any ideas?
@@greenboy3d depends on your goals, I guess. If it is to make money on nozzles then indeed it could become an impediment for buyers. If not, publishing the design specs will get a long way toward copycat nozzles appearing on aliexpress or ebay. With many biz models in between (partnering w 3D printing accessory distributors on each continent, selling through specialized online stores that have figured out worlwide buy & ship like CNC Kitchen's, etc).
BUT the nozzle is only a tiny concerning piece in my opinion. How about other proprietary or uncommon parts of the extruder and providing spare parts for repair ? Like the extruder screw, or its housing ? Screw extruders do NOT have a great reputation on the hobby scene. So, as a buyer I'd be less worried about the nozzle (I'll likely find a way to unclog it) and more about whether I'd be able to get spare parts if anything breaks down ?
Bambu Lab might be an example to ponder. The highly specialised parts in their printers initially turned many people off for fear of ending up with an expensive unrepairable dead paperweight. But their policy of selling most parts online at a reasonable price went a long way to assuage these fears. Maybe something can also be learned / copied from that ?
I love your attitude of just getting things done rather than getting stuck in making the prints perfectly clean 😃
And I love you comment ❤
What would you like to see next?
@@greenboy3d I'm quite interested in more details on shredding the plastic to make it workable, or is it really as simple as just throwing parts in a kitchen blender and sifting the result? I would also like to know more about your 2-year journey (what major hurdles did you encounter and how did you tackle them) to get at this point, and on how to get my hands on the result to be able to play with it.
@@Kurckie maybe another extruder just a little bit bigger where you can throw in bigger junks and then making consistent pellets not just dust...
Idea: try adding some new pellets to your shredded waste, somewhere between 10-40% of new pellets. This is normally done in recycling as it increases quality of the end product by a lot. And 90% of recycled material will still safe a lot of waste
Thank you for your interesting input 🙂
What would you like to see next?
I mean, 100% recycled material or 90% recycled material should safe the same amount of waste, since you are propably using more waste than you produce (if over 90% of your prints are waste, you are propably doing Something wrong)
Put me down as "don't care" about nozzle compatibility. Nozzles are cheap, they last a long time, and if a special extruder needs a special nozzle, I can understand that. As long as I can GET them, or I can modify standard ones to work. Are you thinking of tapering the inner profile? What would make a standard work better on a pellet extruder?
I'd think something that's internally threaded to eliminate the extra unneeded melt area.
A question that can't get out of my mind is what people would do if they had a nozzle clog, which can happen on any 3D printer due to some particle blocking the nozzle hole.
If the "special nozzle" is not easily available globally because only I am selling it, then this might be a problem. Any ideas?
@greenboy3d the idea to modify a stndard nozzle from @BrightBlueJim would be the easiest way in terms of accesability. Even when you break multiple ones during the process of modifying or if they clogged faster you can get a inexpensive replacement. The tapping tool could be a custom cadfile ready to cnc manufacture via different big manufactures, like JLC for example, same for special nozzles.
@@greenboy3di mean if you’re the only one selling it it could be a problem, but if you can solve the distrubution option it wouldnt be an issue imo. You could look into if modifying a nozzle thats readily avaliable is an option because then people could just get that nozzle and modify it themselves if buying one from you isnt an option.
@@greenboy3d I work in blow molding. We use stainless steel screens and place them after the extrusion screw. This catches contaminants and solves your clog. Your only option after that is solvents when removing your nozzle.
this makes utter sense when recycling, you reduce one step and won't reheat the plastic again saving it from losing it physical properties
What would you like to see next? :)
From tests I've seen reheating doesn't really reduce properties by a significant amount, the main issue with recycling is contaminants.
Cool to see progress on this! Reg.nozzle: why not just make custom nozzles that use m6 threads? You maintain compatibility, and you can also get the characteristics you want
A question that can't get out of my mind is what people would do if they had a nozzle clog, which can happen on any 3D printer due to some particle blocking the nozzle hole.
If the "special nozzle" is not easily available globally because only I am selling it, then this might be a problem. Any ideas?
@@greenboy3d Make many or get a manufacturing partner. If you want this to catch on it needs to be accessible.
@greenboy3d well, it's not like you can buy normal nozzles at the local super market either, i think as long as you maintain compatibility with standard nozzles, it should not be an issue, otherwise you can sell them in packs of 10, that gives people alot of time to order a new set when they need it.
I suspect that the custom nozzle is going to be all about having as little fillament volume as possible to avoid oozing, right? In that case, it might be even easier to clear the nozzle, and it would make it even more a non issue :)
Honestly the majority of new printers have proprietary nozzles, so if an optimal nozzle can be close in price, i dont see it being an issue. Really interested in this for an option for my sunlu s8 with a bigger nozzle to print my failed prontd
A question that can't get out of my mind is what people would do if they had a nozzle clog, which can happen on any 3D printer due to some particle blocking the nozzle hole.
If the "special nozzle" is not easily available globally because only I am selling it, then this might be a problem. Any ideas?
@@greenboy3d Good point indeed. Humans on all the sides of the planet.
may be you go as some success company do - make a cheap option and a pricy one. So you will also not let your interest go away for some ideas.
Supporting standard nozzles will bring more people in, so in the short term that's probably the better plan, but the next step will be to develop custom nozzles and setups that work better.
Thank you for your great input 🙂
What would you like to see next?
It's better to have something that works. If it doesn't work it doesn't matter if it uses a standard nozzle.
Oh man - Subscribed! Great content! Look forward to see what else you work on, and following along your progress! Really would like to experience your setup! Heading down similar journey. Thanks for being down similar paths, the world needs it!
Great work on this! Look forward to supporting you in the future. Survey done, I hope you got many responses with valuable information. Keep up the awesome work you are doing!
Love your work keep doing a good job improving our 3D printing community I plan on using this design on a personal project in the future.
Thank you for your warming words ❤
What would you like to see next?
This is absolutely amazing! I can't wait to hear more about this and eventually try it.
This channel ought to have 500k+ subscribers. Good job at pawing the way for pallet extrusion on consumer grade printers.
Thank you for your kind words ❤
What would you like to see next?
I support anything that makes 3d printing cheaper, simpler, faster, and more efficient. Keep up great work, and I will do my best to consistently support you.
Thank you ❤
I loved your research and the video - but I’ll be blatantly honest about the print quality: it’s not there yet. The Benchy has VERY inconsistent layer lines. On a commercial printer I would have returned it. The question is: are the inconsistencies generated by your pallet extruder? Or is it the mechanics of the printer that are suffering from a heavy print head? I would love to see it on a stiffer printer / maybe it gets good on a printer with a more rigid gantry, linear rails or wider gantry extrusion… more tension on the belts.
Please, don’t dismiss the importance of print quality - people are willing to pay more for better quality filament exactly because they want smoother prints.
Keep going the awesome research!
The issue is caused by the inconsistency that plastic pellets in general have. It's like having a Filament spool with fluctuation a diameter between 5% but because of this it costs also 5 to 10 times less.
This issue can be solved in the future for example with a pressure sensor in the extruder barrel or a small AI camera monitoring the extrusion rate and real-time-micro adjusting it, which is why pellet extruders will have in the future basically the same print quality as filament printers. But this this kind of technology still needs to be developed...
If I make enough sales, I will try to develop this technology with extrusion measurement myself, since it would be my dream to bring a huge innovation to the world of 3D Printing... Wish me LUCK🙂
@@greenboy3dyou could try an esp32-cam or 2 with a macro lens focused on the hotend, as a bonus you can detect blobs before they cause issues.
Imo another option might be double extrusion, with a pellet extruder extruding into a bowden tube and the filament being picked up by a regular hotend, that allows you to use light to measure the diameter, and to use a way lighter moving assembly.
(Also depending on print speed you could have a shell that's solid but the core still above 60C, which means more flow rate.)
Yet another option (imo the easiest to do currently) would be to use an idex system and do the outer wall on a regular .4mm nozzle, then fill in with the pellet extruder on a 1.2 or 1.6mm nozzle.
The great thing with that solution imo, is that you don't need good quality pellets, and can use whatever color recycled plastic in it and still have an uniform print.
And also the large diameter nozzle means that you don't need the heavy pellet extruder to move fast.
I honestly think I could live with the reduced print speed if it prints consistently or great. but even right now it could be used in a tool changer?
I also have an idea: i'm developing a pressure sensor for hotends that can optimize the flow and calibrate on the go based on hotend pressure, you could use one and then do a closed loop servo style hotend!
Can you write me an email regarding your presure sensor please to kristian@greenboy3d.com :)
I am interessted and also willing to pay for it
@@greenboy3d Sure!
this should be watched by all big 3d companies. Whoever makes this reliable and with quality will win everything.
Great job on this video! From the production to the information. Fantastic.
Thank you for your warming words ❤
What would you like to see next?
I used to work at Tektronix, and there was a shade of color the used a lot on plastic molded parts that we called "Tek blue". I learned one day that they made this by mixing medium blue, white, and black RIT fabric dye (the dry powdered version) to get this color. Of course, those were injection molded parts, so I don't know how that would work here.
Thank you for your very interesting input 🙂
What would you like to see next?
Always excited when these videos drop. When are you releasing your design?
For recycling it's typically done by mixing the old plastic into a new batch.
You could try how well the system works at different ratios of old and new.
Ideally ofc you would want to shred it to similar granule size, but the hopper and screw system should be able to handle varying sizes.
Would like to see some tests on this. Recycling old plastic inhouse can be a huge saving overall.
For the nozzle question, I think you should aim to have optimal nozzle for the printing and not be chained by universality.
If the system becomes widely used then it becomes the new standard :)
very interesting input 🙂
Thank you
Thank you for answering my question in your previous video about retraction!
no problem :)
I agree with him... It's a great idea to try to recycle the filaments residue, even if the prints doesn't get perfect
I calculated 112g/h = 38.3 mm^3/s, am I correct? Calculations below:
Assuming PLA density is 1.24g/cm^3:
112g * 1.24 = 138cm^3/h
138 / 60 = 2.3cm^3/min
2.3 / 60 = 0.0383cm^3/s = 38.3mm^3/s flow
It would be cool to see you perform the orcaslicer max flowrate test on different nozzle sizes. It makes it easier to see the actual limits of flowrate.
A bit of an overestimate on flow rate unfortunately - if the PLA is more than a gram per cm^3 then 112 g should represent less than 112 cm^3. I think the calculation should be as follows:
112 g/1.24 g/cm^3 = 90.3 cm^3
90.3 / 60 = 1.50 cm^3/min
1.5 / 60 = 0.025 cm^3/s = 25 mm^3/s
Still better than many standard nozzles, but not matching top of the line high flow. I think beyond this, the cooling rates will be a bigger limits but with klipper input shaping the weight of the extruder may be much less of an issue than with previous firmware. Still a very impressive project in general!
I'll look into the "orcaslicer max flowrate test", might test it this way next time.
Thank you for your very interesting input 🙂
What would you like to see next?
This is super cool work you are doing! Consider me thoroughly impressed and in awe of your abilities! I love 3D printing and the amount of innovation and absolutely genius levels of ingenuity I've seen at so many levels within this community!
Being able to purchase an AFFORDABLE pellet extruder that can be put onto many other brands of printers would be invaluable as a 3D printing oriented business owner. I'd especially love to see this become standard on some other printers like Prusa or Bambu, though I'd settle for a reliable conversion kit and I'd buy like 5x of them. Haha!
Keep up the great work! I'll be keeping a close eye on this project for sure!
I would agree with most others that a more efficient nozzle would be preferred over a standard one.
A question that can't get out of my mind is what people would if they had a nozzle clog, which can happen on any 3D printer due to some particle blocking the nozzle hole.
If the "special nozzle" is not easily available globally because only I am selling, then this might be a problem. Any ideas?
Nozzle clog can be solved by buying another one. Profit.
Sell a 3D design of the nozzle for a substantial amount, or just publish it for free for the street cred
Amazing work! This is true innovation!
I'm so excited for the future of this system!
Thank you for your warming words ❤
What would you like to see next?
@@greenboy3d Perhaps a road map of your goals with this project and technology? Love to see the progress, but I also want to know your vision
I once read an article about an Indian university student who couldn't afford a 3D printer and so he designed and built his own, the only things he bought were the arduino chip to build his control board and the steppers, he was also having trouble affording filament and so he also designed and built a pellet extruder as he could get the pellets for pennies.
I have a few old bedslingers that I would love to convert into pellet printers!
Neat video, I love the amount of work folks put into FDM printers just to get a new way to print or not waste materials. I am not sure I would go through the trouble of doing all this, just to save a few bucks in materials, but I feel the pain of wasted materials as well. Resin printers create so much waste with support materials only being used and tossed. I love that you took and Ender 3V2 and did this, those things are like Honda Civics, cheap and easy to mod.
I definitely would like to see this take off; even if I didn't use it so much, I can definitely see a place for it
Besides printing metals this is by far the best development in the 3D printing space since years. Kudos to you, keep up the good work.
In this case, in terms of speed, I think a bed-slinger might actually perform better than a CoreXY. On a CoreXY the heavy toolhead would affect the resonances of both axis, which would limit accelerations. On a bed-slinger the heavy Y axis performs worse than the X, bottlenecking the X axis speeds. But in your case, both axis are heavy, so they don't limit each other, and because they're separate, it's probably going to be easier to deal with their respective resonances. But that's just my theory.
True :)
By the way, what would you like to see next?
Your explique so well ! I would love to try this pellet extruder !
Love this project and can’t wait I have an old Ender i could dedicate for this awesome project! I think having a quick swap that can change to other machines.
Thank you for your kind words ❤
What would you like to see next?
This is good please keep working on this 2 year project
I will :)
What would you like to see next?
This is exactly what I need. I have been saving all my PLA trash from supports, failed prints etc, since I started 3d printing, waiting for this product.
Working on it :)
Nice. For recycled plastic the bulk density will be different. Building a small pelletizer extruder would be more consistent. I worked as a tool maker in an extrusion plant for 10 years. There are ways to make it more consistent but the complexity goes up.
Thank you for your very interesting input 🙂
What would you like to see next?
For the nozzle, maybe go with a CHT nozzle, since it has three channels in which the molten plastic flows through, meaning it might have more consistency in the heating and flow. As for the small discrepencies in the melting process, maybe add some small notches on the side of the extrusion screw so that any trapped air could be potentially allowed to bubble out or maybe as a way to control a bit of pressure.
As for dying your batch, could try going with alcohol dyes and do it in the same format of mixing it in an enclosed jar/container.
Thank you for your very interesting input 🙂
What would you like to see next?
Run this beside the printer with a 1.75mm nozzle. Run the output through a bowden tube to a standard direct-drive extruder. If you set the pellet extruder as a standard second extruder in "ditto" mode with the correct steps/mm, you'd be getting filament on demand for the "primary" extruder with no changes to the printer necessary. Heck, you could use it as a pure bowden extruder and have zero worries about the weight of the entire setup.
Interesting idea :D
Would you like me to try that out in of my next videos?
@@greenboy3d Yes please! Great idea!
How is that different than an inferior filament extruder? What benefit would it bring?
Filament extruder are slightly more complex as they typically require sensors to ensure the filament is always the correct size, without it the resulting filament would be inconsistent reducing quality or causing clogs.
Why not buy a filament extruder to produce your own filament from cheap pellets?
@@hellothere6627 The difference is this would be done on-demand, and would be compensating for inconsistency instead of trying to make 100% consistent filament.
This is akin to using sensors and processing power to compensate for low-cost parts the way Bambu has done successfully. Large, heavy, stable durable machines existed with mechanical perfection giving near perfect accurate printing. Bambu just measures the imperfections and compensates for them in real-time to generate results.
@@greenboy3d I would love to see it. The only limitation I initially see is that you would want to break up extrusions into small chunks, such that it's not making one measurement adjust for a very large movement. A post-processing script could break up any long extrusions. If a long extrusion was defined as a single extrusion that uses more than one (small) pellet's worth of material, it would theoretically be adjusting flow at the same resolution (or better) as pellet volume.
SAW VIDEO 1 AND NOW THIS!! Thank You! Can a pressure lift switch be added between the nozzle head assembly and the actual carrier mount guide rail? maybe this would be fore a different design. say 0.6 nozzle layer eight travel is 1.2. the stepper feed goes till the head is lifted ill the trigger head lift switch is tripped or lifted to that height, then the travel steppers are engaged to conduct gcode shape. maybe be do a reverse stepper feed code for retraction. Head should relax and lift switch switch off for next travel movement and no feed. Maybe CNC kitchen or Dr. Dflow. Dflow did a very large scale pellet printer. maybe this helps on the stringing retraction issue. micro optical type switch or nano like adjustable switch control to adjust layer height and retraction.. just ideas...
Thank you for your very interesting input 🙂
What would you like to see next?
I think this is the way to go especially for large printvolume printers since the printmechanism is bulkier and the material is way cheaper. Mach weiter so, 👍
Danke :)
Was würdest du gerne als nächstes sehen?
Personally, I do not enjoy tinkering... that's why I went with a Bambu. However, this seems promising for prototyping. Keep pushing the envelope. That's the only way progress is made.
👌
Vielen Dank and greetz from Sydney. This is really important. I prototype...a LOT and Im over throwing out the, by now, 100s of kilos just to test and trial. "Good Enough" would be asbolutely fine until I have a release candidate of the design. GREAT WORK!
I had no idea this was I thing just a before seeing this. but very cool and promising project for sure. and yeah like others I would drop the standard nozzle if this means a better end product then that should be worth it for sure. and it's understandable that this will have his own set of pro and cons, just like a bowden vs direct drive and bed slingers and cor x y does. so that it's not going to break any speed records that is fine. it might get better over time also the project matures but it for sure got some good unique points. being material price and the custom coloring options are nice as well. I do wonder about the paint smell? when it heated up? or does it not seem to add extra fumes?
method 4 was genius. this project is fire, not something i would ever have use for but so incredible
This is an awesome idea. It would be really nice to be able to actually make our own spools from pellets. Im sure you've already posted a video on why you didn't do that here.
I can try that out, should I? :D
This is, frankly, truly awesome stuff. When I get the time, I definitely want to investigate this pellet extruder further.
Do you intend to release the source material, etc?
That would be really awesome, if I could make one myself eventually and try it out!
The 3D Printed parts will be for free, but the other ones need to be purchased :)
What would you like to see next?
@@greenboy3d hmm. Since it's already a pellet extruder, couldn't you design a custom extra wide nozzle for direct injection molding? Say you 3d print a prototype of something, but then you want to produce it in bulk, so you acquire a mold (you can actually resin print them), swap the nozzle, and then begin injecting.
I just thought about it, since it already extrudes pellets it could be used for both printing and IM, all in the package of one device. You don't even need a plunger, just have the screw set to high speed? :)
Additionally, I'd like to see some experiments with some more exotic materials (PC, Polyamides, etc,). Have you ever thought about buying some graphene powder and making some master batch pellets with something like polystyrene, and then combining that with the bulk material? I think you'd be surprised at the strength of graphene infused parts.
Great video! really hope this gets adopted in a larger scale than tinkerers.
Thank you for your kind words ❤
What would you like to see next?
My personal opinnion on the nozzle type is to stick with the current, widely available nozzles and once its widely adopted, offer specially designed nozzles for improved print quality.
I would preffer that because of 2 reasons:
- It would get a lot more people interested if they can retrofit their printers
- They would have as may interchangeable parts as possible
Moving on to the specialized nozzle:
- It would offer to the people who initially are focused on print quality and not function a reason to recyle and be more sustainable
- The hobyists would also benefit from having something to upgrade to
I really like what you are trying to do. Even if the up front cost is most likely going to be more, the saving on the filament is huge. Making custom colors is interesting too. Are you using regular spray paint?
Yes, regular acrylic based spray paint. But like I mention there are multiple ways and spray paint types...
By the way, what would you like to see next?
I love the project and progress, I have two main questions.
Does the extruder work well with flexibles?
Why not buy a filament extruder and the cheap pellets and produce your own filament to use in standard printers? How much is the difference in cost between this nozzle and a good filament extruder?
Whats the cause of the poor print quality? Is it just a lack of dialing in the settings? Or is there a mechanical reason causing it?
IIRC the pellets won't run themselves through the extruder at a perfectly constant rate. You'd have the same problem using filament with a non-constant diameter.
@@ski3091 so I suppose this type of extruder is not good for prints with tight tolerances or small details but is excellent for large structural objects that you would need a lot of?
@@ski3091 gotcha, thanks for the reply
@@ipodtouchiscoollol Sorry, I don't know enough about the process to answer that
Like others mentioned, the pellets or granules don't have a perfect constant flow rate. I have some ideas to solve this problem in the future, but for now it is what it is :)
This is really interesting. I wonder if you could make some GCODE that would use your pellet extruder to make spools too with a small addon. Seems like it would be a pretty handy thing to have around in general. Your screw style pellet extruder might actually be ideal for people's DIY filament recyclers, turning older printer parts into filament recyclers is of interest to a lot of people.
great work friend really a great showcase of a a full stack of skills product design and manufacturing, marketing, and communication. God Speed
pellet extruder is number one priority, but its great that you thinking of an options
Well done! A good enough print as shown in the video is insane. The possibility for community collection and reusing plastic is through the roof.
There are a lot of nonprofits in Buffalo NY, that currently have 3d printers that would be interested in this project. Filament is the biggest cost right now which blocks us from legitimate local manufacturing. Since the injection molded parts are cheaper than just the filament, its hard for 3d printing to make sense
This project could bring us closer to - buy nothing world
I think a lot of 3d printing print farms are looking closely at this too! Could make their prices much more competitive and possible to break into more product categories, including more simple shapes.
I think a possibly better option is to look at making filament yourself. If you can make filament then you can use any off the shelf printers or parts. Splitting it into separate steps is likely better.
That also removes the print quality concern.
Another option may be to put the pellet extruder on top of the printer and have it create filament that goes straight into a Bowden tube down to the hot end, although this would likely not be as good as making the filament separately.
Honestly, if the nozzle is open source, it wont matter if you make it specific or universal, people can come out with their own to help improve etc.
This is an awesome project and you're doing the community AND the environment a huge favor. Keep up the good work 👍💪
Next printing with various materials and explaining where to buy .
Adding cf an gf.
Developing:
injecting color on the fly by design.
Auto drying the pellets on the fly
Amazing! Now i w̶a̶n̶t̶ need to build this.
Nice project. Subcribed!
Thank you for your kind words ❤
What would you like to see next?
Should get a Nobel Prize for this.
Thank you for your warming words ❤
What would you like to see next?
@@greenboy3d I would like to see that you are financially rewarded for all this work; make sure you charge something for your design. I know the Chinese will copy it quickly probably but I hope you can be rewarded.
Nozzle compatibility isn't important if it comes at a cost of performance.
What would ultimately be nice is to design it to function with a breakout board, and be compatible with toolswap plates such as the Hermit Crab or WhamBam Mutant for Ender 3, or be able to easily mount it to a toolchanging printer. That's a much nicer quality of life, to be able to quickly swap between a pellet extruder and filament extruder.
What would you say are the top 5 most popular toolswap plates?
I think significantly better print quality is more important than full nozzle compatibility. However it would be great if you could maintain some level of compatibility, for example by keeping the M6 thread. Then the pellet extruder would work best with the custom nozzles but still function ok-ish with a common nozzle. Some compatibility would prevent complete downtime and allow the early adopters more ways to experiment - an easy one would be shortening common nozzles as from what you're saying a stubbier nozzle is closer to ideal.
this is amazing!
I have collected around 8-9 kg of PLA waste in the course of 14 months and building an extruder to use them to print functional parts will be a much better use for them instead of giving them for recycling. I am very excited for the design files to come out and know where I can source the screw from so that I can recycle my waste into useful parts!
Thank you for your warming words ❤
What would you like to see next?
Great TH-cam video, I definitely could use a pellet extruded in my life for recycling prints. Also, how much will the upfront costs of building this extruder be? I’m just curious if the money I would spend on this would offset the cost of filament and recycling prints in the long run.
One more thing- I think the thing to blame for your suboptimal print quality might be due to the gantry/printer itself. I saw a lot of z banding that may be a flaw of the Ender V2, not the pellet extruder.
One idea for making inconsistent scraps into consistent prints... You know how some people tried 3d printing airsoft 6mm bb's? Yeah, print those at 50% scale with the smallest of scraps to get semi consistent pellets of 3mm
If the quality and cost benefit speak for themselves, I really really don't think supporting standard nozzles is something you should focus on.
The moment this thing releases - if the major 3d printing channels "get" it and are able to reproduce the benefits you show (material choice, cost, flexibility) then it's a winner. But, if the end of those videos they say "but, I've not found the quality to be usable for the kinds of prints I do" its a loser.
Speaking personally, my opinion would be swayed by this kind of thing. I want a third party to do strength tests and quality tests before I buy into a whole ecosystem.
All this is to say - focus entirely on quality and reliability. Nozzle compatibility seems like a far far worry from that. Multiple melt zones, flow rate sensors, that seems like the next step, but you won't get adoption if the quality is under the acceptable threshold for many people today.
Thank you for your very interesting input 🙂
Any idea for flow rate sensors?
@@greenboy3d Perhaps temperature loss or pressure on the nozzle could be a proxy for flow rate measurement?
So I just ordered my first printer (Creality Ender 3. I know, far from the best, but it fits in my budget) so of course I'm looking for videos on how to make the most of it, and this came up in recommended.
Now while I find the premise intriguing, I seriously have to wonder where the heck I can actually get pellets for those prices, because no matter where I look (Amazon, Aliexpress, Wish) pellets and filament cost ABOUT the same per kg...
I think the best solution for the nozzle would be using a larger thread for the proprietary nozzle. Say, M10 or something. (Ideally with a taper lock at the top so molten plastic doesn’t enter the threads) This way, the system can use proprietary nozzles or standard M6x1 nozzles with an adapter bushing.
Question where do you get your pellets from i did see this stuff is more in the Tons to buy which is a bit too much. Other thing how much colors can one do and what fading does it have?
I just filled the form 😌
In short, for me it would be all about reducing waste from prototype prints: I would shred them and re-use the plastic.
Most of the time, quality doesn't matter that much when prototyping iterations especially if you add some more tolerances if needed.
Thank you for your input 🙂
What would you like to see next?
@@greenboy3d I'd like to see how the shredding process could be optimized, maybe with finer particles, filters and multiple iterations to reduce variance in extrusion.
I'm guessing that pellets are a convenient form factor but not made with tight tolerances. And maybe it's possible to increase the print quality by shredding everything, including pellets themselves into finer particles with tighter tolerances.
I feel that its worth mentioning that spraypaint isnt a great thing to be melting down, depending on the paint it could be very toxic.
Additionally, when mixing pigments into plastics the formulation is tricky as the pigments can easily ruin your material properties...
Yeah also pre pigmented pellets exist that aren't that expensive.
You can you make it work with normal nozzles and start making a custom nozzle after the release of the extruder
Thank you for your very interesting input 🙂
What would you like to see next?
Great video!
When will it approximately be available to buy? Awesome project and thank you for your effort.
Probably in a couple of weeks. Doing my best.
In the meantime, what would you like to see next?
@@greenboy3d sounds great, but take your time to make it as good as you can I believe we all can understand that and of course also take time for yourself and such.
Thank you so much for the time you invest into this project to make all our lives better. You’re a real hero no doubt.
If you’re asking me what I’d like to see next it’d be what solution you have for turning print waste into usable pellets (if shredding them was just an alternative) for as you said in another video around 100€ but here again I believe we all understand if it takes some time to get it all right or if it will not exactly cost 100€. Thank you very much for asking.
Lastly I’d also join the other in saying we don’t mind an special nozzle that’s optional to buy if it makes better prints.
Thanks again und Grüße aus Frankfurt :)
I really like this idea, i am watching on the edge of my seat.
I'll do my best to make this extruder available to everyone :)
This is really impressive! You just revolutionized the 3d printing industry on your own 😮
Thank you for your warming words ❤
What would you like to see next?
I would worry about off-gassing for using the various shake methods while the pellets are in the extruder. I thinnk a greater focus on post-painting and recycling already mostly off-gassed materials makes more sense.
I am still waiting for a chocolate 🍫 demo 😅
Don't worry it will come :)
Performance is more important than nozzle compatibility.
Thank you for your input 🙂
What would you like to see next?
Some of the problems you're running into are also issues in small extruders.
I.e. if the extruder screw is running at 60 rpm, expect an uneven "squirt" of resin every 1 second out the end of the nozzle/die.This is why metering pumps are often used at the end of an extruder (to tightly monitor flow).
The 3d filament printer brilliantly solves this issue inexpensively by using filament.
The filament feeding system is acting as the gear pump.
Another issue will be safety. If you build up pressure behind molten plastic that has frozen off at the nozzle, watch out.
Randcastle has made a great miniature extruder for decades to learn some of the inherent issues.
Thank you for your interesting input :)
What would you like to see next?
most of the quality issues i see are common issues i see with my ender3 v2, looks mostly like you need to clean and fix your z-screw wobble. Even my upgraded board on my printer has given access to input shaping and pressure advance both of which very well may help a ton with quality. I wouldn't say quality isn't something that couldn't be achieved with the pellet extruder just may take some time to calibrate for.
That being said, I also understand its not your focus right now, your working on developing it. as well as if a modified tip is going to make it work significantly better i would say go for it, but if the gain is negligible I would aim to keep standard, with plans for a possible upgrade?
The nozzle compatibility reminds me of when Honda started making the Cub, they asked a manufacturer to produce spark plugs that were of a different size from those that were common for motorcycles at that time, in order to make a cheap but still powerful enough engine. The Cub then became the most sold motorcycle of all time. You dont have to cater to old standards if they're not as good. Make a new standard.
This project is very exciting. While I love the ease of use of my Bambu printers I do believe that the economic advantages of this pellet toolhead have plenty of merit - even if they are not "beautiful". I am typically not very concerned about beautiful print quality, though I would prefer an "ugly" part to have superior strength and print speed. Adding the tradeoff of extreme economic advantage, i might then be willing to sacrifice some speed.
On the topic of "standard" and "widely available" hardware; I think this is very nice to have, but not all revolutionary ideas need to have an extremely accessible bill of materials. As long any custom parts aren't extremely scarce or prohibitively expensive.
Thanks for pushing limitations and sharing this project!
Please note that if you have quality pellets (clean) you can produce filament on professional liine for 4-5 eur/kg. For instance TPU 65 shore D costs 3,8-4,8 euro kg now (Resinex, Ravathane 130 D65 NATURAL), regranulate 2 eur. Total is 6 euro kg while in store you pay 40 euro.
This seems great for functional parts at an engineer shop.
*functional...
And yes, pellets work great for very large 3d printers..... Not so well for the size 3d printers that most people have at home.
Thank you for your kind words ❤
What would you like to see next?
@@greenboy3d The video you already hinted at. Tests seeing the strength of parts printing this way versus the standard method. Also with different materials.
mix that with switchable 3D printer heads and you're good to go dude. One head for your fillament and one for your pellet after you can switch between quality and cheapness
Makes me want to build an extruder. Then just buy pellets and colors. Would be awesome
What would you like to see next?
You're creating something that almost no one has done. If it can be done universally except for the nozzle, design those custom nozzles, especially because you'll make no compromises on quality when you control it. It also might one day become the standard for that method of delivery.
Thank you for your feedback 😄
Nozzle compatibility across filament printers makes sense, but it does not have to be that way for a pellet extruder. It makes more sense for the pellet extruder that uses a different extrusion method to have a different nozzle. Then from there, hopefully all future pellet extruders would have the same nozzle compatibility.
Maybe if you just keep the same threading, it can be up to the user to decide if they want to use an easily available filament nozzle, or a pellet nozzle.
You've got a point here :)
Any wishes for the next video?
We must protect this precious strange German genius from the filament mafia
Thank you for your kind words ❤
What would you like to see next?
@@greenboy3d your rightful succes and origin story as eccentric comic book villain Pellet Bsron! ;)
Wow there’s more ? I would have thought your world would be consumed with working with making this a full product and kit and making 1.0
And eventual 2.0 etc
As fir videos shredded PLA or pellets can absorb moisture more quickly but can be dehumidified more quickly. But how will this affect prints most. Your point about bettter to have cheap ops and recycle unwanted materials into useful
Boxes etc is correct
don't worry on making it completely compatible with everything in existence... the extruder and other parts are already custom so if someone decide to adapt your system it will not be discouraged by a nozzle... that said the system has to be comparably cheap tho like if one nozzle costs 10times more it will be difficult to justify 😂
A question that can't get out of my mind is what people would if they had a nozzle clog, which can happen on any 3D printer due to some particle blocking the nozzle hole.
If the "special nozzle" is not easily available globally because only I am selling, then this might be a problem. Any ideas?
@@greenboy3d to be fair I have no idea how different it can be from a standard one, is it possible to modify an existing one to achieve your idea? or maybe provide the cad files for free/small one time fee to have it manufactured somewhere like pcbway or whatever
Let me ask a question can you just make standard filament roll with the pellets? If its available we can bypass many problems and use it with any machine without modifying the machine
660g is world record for sure, you can achive less with robot joint motors but they are expensive (BLDC+Harmonics+step/dir input)
Thank you for your very interesting input 🙂
What would you like to see next?
If the meltzone isn't needed anymore, you could use E3D-style nozzles (because the have a smaller head than the old MK8 nozzles) and shorten the threads a bit on the lathe. This way the meltzone decreases, but you can still use all the normal cheap nozzles as a quick replacement in a pinch.
Hmm.. That a good idea :)