It's a MLM scheme where 80-90% of the poor girls actually lose money! Saw an analysis of the site's numbers the other day. Straight up scam, destroying young girls' futures on top of that.
Taking an investment to play is actually common in the poker world. And I agree with him - poker puts skill into gambling, it's not just mindless pressing of a button on a slot machine.
That's actually not spot on at all. Rich people staking pro players happens all the time in poker. If you stake the right people it can be very profitable.
There’s a horse 🐎 running this weekend guys. I so need your money to back it coz I spent all my huge winnings on a tent 🏕 for my families holidays. … just know this one cannot lose. Gx
@@sirgooselover241 Ah, a rookie. Jenny is famous for almost never making a deal. The legend is that she only did the show for the free glass of water. She often comes up with ridiculous reasons not to invest so theres also a theory that she cant make a deal because shes broke. Sometimes she praises a product and then catches herself and then its pretty obvious shes just making excuses not to invest. Its pretty funny to watch her face when she realizes it.
Somewhere right now, on a rain covered Scottish beach, with the wind howling all around him, Rory has dropped to his knees, weeping and screaming into the abyss.
Right?? He BOUGHT A HOUSE IN SWEDEN. How could he possibly say he's lost all his money? I think it's more likely he lost it all, and is trying to start over.
This is classic gambling addiction. He either has the money if his story is true but won’t stump up the cash himself. Or he talked a load of bullshit - is on a massive losing streak & is willing to do anything for someone to give him another chance
@@dazediss6629 The vast majority of the best poker players in the world are sponsored and staked by other people. Players that are worth £20M+ still get other people to pay their stakes.
@@24magiccarrot I don't understand then if they're so successful why they can't drum up the cash themselves. OPM. It's savagely irresponsible for someone to gamble with someone else's cash *if* they have the capital themselves. If this guy was that amazing, before he paid his mortgage he should have accrued more money for his capital following paying his mortgage. Instead he paid his mortgage but now wants OPM. Also I love how Deborah pulls him down a peg.
@@JeremiahEcks777 Staking allows the player to play in bigger games than their bankroll would otherwise allow, and even if their bankroll does allow it there is still a risk involved so it's smart for the player to reduce their own personal risk and it's smart for the investor if they back the right player. Even the best players, especially tournament players (variance in tournaments is much bigger than cash games), can have downward swings of several thousand pounds at medium stakes and several million pounds at high stakes. Daniel Negreanu one of the best players of all time went on a downswing for 2 years his buy ins during that period totalled $2.87M which resulted in a loss of $86,000 over the two years. By the time you take in hotels and travel for the overwhelming majority of players even profitable players that sort of downswing would be enough to finish them if it weren't for backers. In regard to the guy in this video, the capital he had left over after paying off his mortgage likely isn't that much in poker terms. To play professionally properly you need to have a bankroll somewhere in the region of £200k which will only really allow you play for medium stakes. Asking for £65K he certainly isn't looking to be playing in high stake games trying to get a backer could be the difference between him playing in small stake games or medium stake games which could make a big difference between him being able to play full time for a living or playing on the side for a second income, and given the play schedule of most tournaments he really wouldn't want to be playing on the side if he wants to be serious about making money, many one day tournaments last up to 8 hours and the bigger tournaments are played over several days.
I can't believe he didn't have even a small chart of his winnings/losings ratio from previous tournaments, it would have given everyone a much better idea of his skills. Certainly better than having a round of poker with two of them, than only demonstrated that he knows how to deal cards.
According to him he's not an a winning player online. Also, an ROI of 250% is impossible (unless you're cheating) in the long run. All that means is he got a big score early on in his career and that came in the late 90's when poker was super easy. The best tourney players will have an ROI of 50%.
because it would expose him. Notice how almost no average joe poker player does that, they only post wins not losses. Because they lose more than they win.
I've often thought about spending my savings on a bulk lottery ticket purchase. Once I pay my mortgage off, I might just buy 5k worth of tickets, see what happens.
He didn't lose all his money. Didn't you hear him say he paid off his mortgage and he took his family on holidays around the world? And guys like this aren't just game addicts. They use it as a business, like he's clearly done before.
@@MistaTofMaine Well maybe he wanted some bigger publicity to massage his ego. If he got a celebrity dragon to back him, it'd make him a more commercial player. Maybe thats why. 🤷♂️
This is the correct answer. I've made money staking poker players in the past. But a strong record is necessary. I would never stake someone that doesn't have a strong and consistent track record at the stakes they're intending to play.
But he likely did not have the money to enter all the tournaments he wanted to. Hence you cannot infer whether the Dragons made the right decision or not
@@ashleelmb Imagine taking your FAMILY on holidays around the WORLD and then your bank account reads 0, that guy has no self control whatsoever. Definitely a gambling addict.
@@SSJavenger He has an element of control more than a straight gambler has. And that's how much he's betting based on the strength of the cards he's been dealt.
Wow James Caan is such a gentleman. He's always so respectful. I have actually never seen him humiliate anybody in the Den. He is the embodiment of British politeness.
If he is so good at making money by gambling, why does he need someone to give him money to start? Basically, his wife told him that he was not allowed to touch the swedish summer house, so he would have to get his gambling money from some sucker.
@sslaw6 But any pro worth investing in also has millions that he or she could get access to quickly if necessary. The 20k bankroll he left himself according to his story after spending 500k on houses is nothing.. That's 1 bad night at a hi stakes cash game or 2 buy ins for a big tournament. His story reeks of b s. I'd wanna see bank statements etc before believing a word he said.
Strange! I remember Caan declining an alcohol related investment on religious grounds. I thought that he was going to declare himself out for the same reason, here.
Checking out his live earnings in official tournaments, he won big in a tournament in 2006 (350,000ish) so before this was filmed. Since that point, he has won less than that over the next 14 years.
Thing with poker players is that their winnings are well publicised but their outgoings are not. He could be up or down, only he knows the truth & you won’t find it on the internet.
@@tomlafferty4651 There are literally thousands of people that make money by staking professional poker players in return for a % of their winnings. There are even websites that allow you to buy a piece of players before they enter a big tournament.
Ridiculous idea. 33 tournaments is far too few. It takes 2500+ tournaments to be ~99% sure you beat the games you're playing, because the variance is so high. It takes around 500 games to be 75% sure you're long-term profitable, accounting for variance. 33 is an insult. 33 in a year too?? What is this guy doing the rest of the time only playing one tournament every 9 days? 8 cashes out of 33 is a good amount for any professional, but sample size is far too small. If he's so good, why doesn't he look for financial backing from stables that specialize in this sort of thing? Why doesn't he sell action/crossbook with other professionals? Why doesn't he sell a piece of his action for a mix of coaching/finance. Poker is a game of skill, there's no way around this, but this guy is a joke. I hate when the game I love is so horribly misrepresented by people like this.
Pretty much. Why look for investment from dragons who are likely to not be interested in poker and aren't sponsors vs. just gonig to stables and looking for sponsors.
If he believes he's as good as he said, he would remortgage his house to float him and pay tournament expenses. If he had an investor, he would essentially be taking zero risk.
Not in live tournaments. The edge in live tournaments is much larger compared to online. That said, his first ever cash was that huge score and he has barely made anything anywhere close in the 17 years since.
I feel like he should have asked for a ratchet up deal pitched to all five split between them. Something like, "Today I'm asking for 20k, I'm willing to insure that from my own pocket here today" "All I need from the five of you, is 4k each" "I ask for only that today because I'm confident in my abilities." "Wanting the barrier of risk to be so low, you all are confident in that pittance returning as I am" "After this quick demonstration of my decades long passion at the sport I'm certain will bring us all wealth, I'd hope we could arrange another contract raising the stakes a bit." *Insert pitch over history of earnings* *Explain how commonplace poker player investment contracts are in the industry* *Hand out lists of scheduled tournaments, their locations, possible winnings, and expected costs associated* *Break down the min/max amounts of time till ROI depending on best/worst placements* *Maybe mention the psychology degree* *Offer to wear their companies logos on my clothes as free advertising every tournament* Follow it up with a hopeful statement about once proof of concept is shown there may be continued, incrementally higher risk/reward opportunities for all with less guaranteed insurance on my part as we build rapport. *Gracious closing statement thanking everyone for their time with a little reminder we could all win!* Then just hope they don't wanna be seen worrying about 4k when they're supposed to be "rich". Especially with the only risk falling on my shoulders mostly and no obligation to stay longer than the guaranteed ROI. Pretty sure they'd all buy in just to save face on tv. Hopefully I'd rope in one or two dragons for a recurring investment after. Investments that grow larger after every successful repayment, gradually spreading the risk outward to more even distribution over the remaining group. Allowing me to bring home the big bucks eventually while not scaring away my meal ticket.
According to the Poker Database, this bloke has won about $16k since the start of 2018. The Dragon's would have got around $6500. Not the best return on a £65k investment!
He seems like a decent player looking at his previous games on global poker index, he probably doesn't have the money to invest himself though. He seems to make money on almost every game he enters, but at 20k buy in who knows how he compares to players at that level.
While this is obviously a very odd proposition for the den, this way of doing business is very common in high stakes poker, where many tournaments costs 5 figures to enter, with high potential returns. So many pro players have investors to help limit the risk.
Listen Clambrain his pitch was perfect for his system , like horse racing there is form on which you decide your bet as in other sports . he says he has proof that he can win. like the Stock market , its based on performance etc
Funny enough, that guy's idea of flashing lights on road signs are starting to be used more and more. He was ahead of the curve. Dragons missed out on that opportunity.
@StoneBoiii420 No, but they're still based off the same concept of attaching flashing lights to road signs. His IP was the overall form and function of the lights, being they had a curved surface and showed direction of traffic flow, while the system being used now is just a simple flashing light not protected under any particular IP that I'm aware of. What's funny is just the concept of attaching flashing lights to a road sign was mocked and ridiculed by the Dragons, but if they had invested in that guy's protected IP, and made efforts to have it implemented, they could have secured government contracts and made millions of £s.
@StoneBoiii420 I don't disagree, just saying it's funny that everyone mocks that guy for his concept of putting flashing lights on road signposts, yet more and more local governments are actually moving forward with that concept. I doubt there'd be any liability issues for that guy, as I've never heard of any company manufacturing the road signs or traffic lights getting sued by motorists.
This practice of getting someone else to cover your expenses as a professional poker player is actually so common that it's the norm among all the big name pros. Although that's usually considered "sponsorship" rather than "investing". It was worth a try though.
You guys upvoting this comment don't understand that poker sponsorship is actually a huge and growing industry. These guys are not 'addicts', they are calculated players that use mathematics and psychology to grind out an edge and make a long-term ROI over literally hundreds of thousands or even millions of hands... the top poker players that regularly get to the final tables of tournaments or are seen at the biggest cash games are NOT just gamblers relying on luck, that just doesn't work. You'd be wiped out incredibly quickly, as poker is largely a game of skill. So if you don't know what you're talking about, just say nothing, it's as simple as that. However, would I invest in this guy? No, but not for the reasons most are outlying. Not because it's all luck, but because its a continually changing dynamic ecosystem and there is so much information and skilful players out there these days that it's very difficult to sustain an edge especially in tournament poker that is also characterised by much larger variance and drawdowns than cash-game poker.
The producers just wanted some comic relief for the show. This is a ridiculous pitch. His fellow tournament pros would know if he is a good investment and if he is, they would take a deal close to what he is pitching. There is a reason he can’t get the money from other pros, and we know what it is.
2024 update on JJ: I looked on his Hendon Mob database and you can see in 2006 he had one massive cash 400k+ dollars, and then nothing much since. He is still active today, making multiple cashes in the low thousands and below each year. I'm surprised the dragons didn't want to look at his record in more detail because if he'd final tabled a load of mid steak events, the proposition is actually quite interesting, but in reality it looks like he fluked a second place at the very start of his career and then did nothing noteworthy since. They were right not to invest.
@@singami465 Lol, yes. Game of chance for money you can modify the outcome with decisions but its still gambling. Learn more before trying to discredit people. Makes you look like a fool.
There are companies out there that specifically provide backing for professional poker players. He should be on one of those and attract investors that way.
I think you're referring to sponsors. They essentially pay for advertising but they don't receive a percentage of a player's winnings. Corporate sponsors pay race car drivers/teams to put company logos on cars and clothing. Most poker sponsors are companies with online and mobile gaming sites. If he truly is as skilled as he said and needed the money to pay entry fees, travel, lodging, etc for tournaments, he would remortgage his house.
With his sunglasses on, in the thumbnail at least, it looks like somebody once told him the world was going to roll him... he left, asking if they could spare some change for gas
Some ignorance in the comments section questioning why he doesn't use his own money. The vast majority of professional poker players are sponsored by someone else. Duncan if anyone should know this. The guys problem is he didn't have a significant track record to show the dragons that he can be a profitable player. There are a ton of profitable players out there that need financial help to let them get to bigger games, if one of those people went on the den they'd be able to go on with statements from their online poker account showing how much they make every month or if they only play live they'd have receipts from casinos showing their profits/losses This guy didn't have any of that.
what the hell was that, i dont think he needed money or expertise of a dragon, he was just riding his luck and pulling strings. that was not even a proper pitch .
There's always acceptions to the rule and his past success demonstrates that. He clearly wins more than he loses if he can pay his mortgage off and take his family on holidays around the world with his winnings.
@@ashleelmb Not really - he could have gone all in one time and got lucky with a massive pot. Gambling is plain and simple. You can win and lose lots of money in seconds - if he had the money then he’d back himself. The entire notion of what he’s saying is illogical - I’m a good poker player but I have no money to enter tournaments? Well then you’re not as good as you think you are.
@@dazediss6629 it takes a lot more time and energy to get the kind of money required to enter more, bigger poker tournaments that the dragons can offer him as an investment straight away. Also, if he has to play under pressure to accumulate the funds to enter the bigger tournaments, he could overload his mind and become disillusioned with the game, causing him to fail in those ones that pay the big money that really count.
Was Dragon’s Den running short on entrepreneurs back then? Seriously, this was a guy pretty much saying “please give me your money so that I can go gamble with it”.
Victoria Coren pints to the sense in spotting a good player needing investment, and shows it with examples in Guardian article. She asks if you can imagine a race horse owner telling Frankie Dettori 'No thanks mate, I'll ride it myself'.
I would've thought that the producers of this show would've stopped this guy from turning up right after the application process(assuming they have one and you can't simply rock up to the Den and pitch soemthing).
@@whiskeytango5680 I'm just saying his pitch was solid. Rather good compared to many others actually. Not that the offer he made to the Dragons was interesting at all. I would never invest in 'calculated gambling'.
Honestly, as weird as this was, it was kind of a refreshing change of pace from the many people who think that they have an amazing food item or baby product.
Hang on, I thought this was a company investment programme, since when was ‘investing in some bloke to win a poker tournament’ allowed. I have missed something?
He makes some solid points about his “business” making an almost immediate return on investment. But it’s still a crazy gamble and I definitely wouldn’t invest in their portion
Business is always a gamble.... We cannot foresee the future aside from collective data and projection..... The gentleman has data built over 25 years of poker and has built a projection from his win v loss... I believe having a solid poker player in your business portfolio would be well worth the risk for a wealthy dragon.... Foolish not to back that dude.... He was honest and genuine... The cash return day after tournament winnings sure seemed valuable in my eyes.....
This is the adult equivalent of asking your parents for money to go in the arcade
So true.
If my kids could make a profit from arcade games I'd be throwing money at them.
🤣🤣🤣
LOL!!!!
SO SPOT ON!!! 😂😂😂😂😂
Theo The Fetus, Duncan Banner Time and Pizza Jones.
The first time I ever heard Theo paphitis I actually heard it as theo the fetus
Debris meet in, gems can't
Duncan Hammer Time? BREAK IT DOWN.
Deborah needs em
I thought his name was Theo Prosthesis.
Im awaiting the day someone comes in to pitch their onlyfans
100.000$ for 20% of my onlyfans and free life time subscription ;-)
Doug Richard: “I’m in!!!!!!”
(I’m of course joking)
It's a MLM scheme where 80-90% of the poor girls actually lose money! Saw an analysis of the site's numbers the other day. Straight up scam, destroying young girls' futures on top of that.
@@jackhackett4557 hahaha genius!
"I'll only invest if you're willing to lie about your age online!!"
Jenny: sorry I'm out
'I could gamble my own money, of course... but I'd rather gamble yours.'
I like how he's all like *"DONT CALL ME A GAMBLER PLZ! IT HURTS MY FEEELINGS!!!"*
💀💀💀💀💀
@@KingStr0ng - He's a professional poker play, by gosh.
Taking an investment to play is actually common in the poker world. And I agree with him - poker puts skill into gambling, it's not just mindless pressing of a button on a slot machine.
@@yankochoynev652 Yes, we know that both luck and skill are involved.
What Deborah said was spot on. “If I was going to gamble, I wouldn’t do it by proxy”. Well said 👏
This is actually incredibly common in poker and nearly all pros have a similar arrangement. Most are backed by millionaires
@@Dailysam6 my butt is backed by a of ass hairs
@@Joe-th7kf I know JJ well actually. he plays in the london casinos
That's actually not spot on at all. Rich people staking pro players happens all the time in poker. If you stake the right people it can be very profitable.
A
Ú
Was I the only one thinking when he walked in...
"Bloody hell that blind man is confident with where he's going"
Yeah, I was thinking tsimilar.
He looked more like a douchbag tbh
There’s a horse 🐎 running this weekend guys. I so need your money to back it coz I spent all my huge winnings on a tent 🏕 for my families holidays. … just know this one cannot lose. Gx
That look on Peter's face at the start😂 he was more out than Jenny
When are people like you finally going to be over Jenny?
@@stephenfox8685 Never forget!
Stephen Fox I’ve just started watching Dragons’ Den, what happened to Jenny, or what did she do?
@@sirgooselover241
The long running is that she almost never invests so there's funny excuses made to why
@@sirgooselover241 Ah, a rookie. Jenny is famous for almost never making a deal. The legend is that she only did the show for the free glass of water. She often comes up with ridiculous reasons not to invest so theres also a theory that she cant make a deal because shes broke. Sometimes she praises a product and then catches herself and then its pretty obvious shes just making excuses not to invest. Its pretty funny to watch her face when she realizes it.
Enters in dark sunglasses, swaggers like a gangster, sits down seriously
**Kermit the Frog voice** Hi everyone
How does this not have more upvotes?
Loooooool accurate
@@BenjaminGoose cuz it's not Reddit...
Should be marked as *spoiler* 😂
@@chilli-iceolive-abode2447 Same question to you~!
The dragons missed a trick here, they should have folded instead of saying 'im out'
INSTA FOLD PRE
I'd have raised - he's all bluff
LOL
Good idea, but wouldn't that mean they were conceding defeat and giving him their money?
Somewhere right now, on a rain covered Scottish beach, with the wind howling all around him, Rory has dropped to his knees, weeping and screaming into the abyss.
Top comment.
Wishing he had some seaweed to play for
@StoneBoiii420 best job in the world
those damn seaweeds
Rory?
Peters glance at his watch during the pitch pretty much summed up the rest of the video
If he was really that confident in his skills he would just take out a loan against his property.
Right?? He BOUGHT A HOUSE IN SWEDEN. How could he possibly say he's lost all his money? I think it's more likely he lost it all, and is trying to start over.
This is classic gambling addiction. He either has the money if his story is true but won’t stump up the cash himself. Or he talked a load of bullshit - is on a massive losing streak & is willing to do anything for someone to give him another chance
@@dazediss6629 The vast majority of the best poker players in the world are sponsored and staked by other people. Players that are worth £20M+ still get other people to pay their stakes.
@@24magiccarrot I don't understand then if they're so successful why they can't drum up the cash themselves.
OPM. It's savagely irresponsible for someone to gamble with someone else's cash *if* they have the capital themselves.
If this guy was that amazing, before he paid his mortgage he should have accrued more money for his capital following paying his mortgage. Instead he paid his mortgage but now wants OPM.
Also I love how Deborah pulls him down a peg.
@@JeremiahEcks777 Staking allows the player to play in bigger games than their bankroll would otherwise allow, and even if their bankroll does allow it there is still a risk involved so it's smart for the player to reduce their own personal risk and it's smart for the investor if they back the right player.
Even the best players, especially tournament players (variance in tournaments is much bigger than cash games), can have downward swings of several thousand pounds at medium stakes and several million pounds at high stakes.
Daniel Negreanu one of the best players of all time went on a downswing for 2 years his buy ins during that period totalled $2.87M which resulted in a loss of $86,000 over the two years.
By the time you take in hotels and travel for the overwhelming majority of players even profitable players that sort of downswing would be enough to finish them if it weren't for backers.
In regard to the guy in this video, the capital he had left over after paying off his mortgage likely isn't that much in poker terms. To play professionally properly you need to have a bankroll somewhere in the region of £200k which will only really allow you play for medium stakes. Asking for £65K he certainly isn't looking to be playing in high stake games trying to get a backer could be the difference between him playing in small stake games or medium stake games which could make a big difference between him being able to play full time for a living or playing on the side for a second income, and given the play schedule of most tournaments he really wouldn't want to be playing on the side if he wants to be serious about making money, many one day tournaments last up to 8 hours and the bigger tournaments are played over several days.
I can't believe he didn't have even a small chart of his winnings/losings ratio from previous tournaments, it would have given everyone a much better idea of his skills.
Certainly better than having a round of poker with two of them, than only demonstrated that he knows how to deal cards.
Don't forget the psychology degree
Other than that he presented the idea well
According to him he's not an a winning player online. Also, an ROI of 250% is impossible (unless you're cheating) in the long run. All that means is he got a big score early on in his career and that came in the late 90's when poker was super easy. The best tourney players will have an ROI of 50%.
because it would expose him. Notice how almost no average joe poker player does that, they only post wins not losses. Because they lose more than they win.
"I'd like £100,000 to buy 50,000 lottery tickets"
I've often thought about spending my savings on a bulk lottery ticket purchase. Once I pay my mortgage off, I might just buy 5k worth of tickets, see what happens.
ashleelmb that’s a bad idea my dude. Gonna make a huge loss
@@Barrett1079 Yeah, you're probably right. I dunno. It'd just be so good to win a few million and not have to work again wouldn't it?
@@ashleelmb I wouldn't if you know the odds you could spend a million on euro millions lottery tickets about not make even 5% of that back.
@@MasterJTLS Yeah, you're probably right. Bad idea I guess.
The fact that Duncan and Theo aren't even writing *any* of his pitch down.😆
He had a lot of nerve, trying to pull a stunt like that!
Sounds like he lost all his money and needs a loan to feed his addiction
He didn't lose all his money. Didn't you hear him say he paid off his mortgage and he took his family on holidays around the world? And guys like this aren't just game addicts. They use it as a business, like he's clearly done before.
@@ashleelmb why didn't the guy just use some of his savings or take a low interest loan out is the question.
@@MistaTofMaine Well maybe he wanted some bigger publicity to massage his ego. If he got a celebrity dragon to back him, it'd make him a more commercial player. Maybe thats why. 🤷♂️
ashleelmb a guy with an active addiction wouldn’t exactly tell the truth about everything. But I see what you’re saying
@@austiniscoolduh Yeah, fair enough mate. It was an interesting proposition though wasn't it?
the table prop was jut an excuse not to have to stand up the whole time. smart move
This guy is a genius. Buys a summer house in Sweden, one of EU's countries with the shortest summer.
If you like spending summers in Sweden then it seems to make more sense to buy a summer house in Sweden than in a country with a longer summer...
It's a tax haven, he isnt there for the weather
These summers there are very nice tho
You clearly dont know anything about Sweden !
@@ImDavidJamesthat's Switzerland
Just had a look at his competition results. The Dragons made the right decision.
What exactly happened to him
Axis earned about €10k past year.
This is the correct answer. I've made money staking poker players in the past.
But a strong record is necessary. I would never stake someone that doesn't have a strong and consistent track record at the stakes they're intending to play.
@@Neil2022u
But he likely did not have the money to enter all the tournaments he wanted to. Hence you cannot infer whether the Dragons made the right decision or not
I have won 547,000 dollars.
I need 65,000 pounds.
Ummm......No!
@Aaron K I want to believe that production vet participants and that can get into the show.
He said he paid his mortgage off and took his family on holidays around the world. A fair explanation I think.
sounded like a scam to me
@@ashleelmb Imagine taking your FAMILY on holidays around the WORLD and then your bank account reads 0, that guy has no self control whatsoever. Definitely a gambling addict.
@@SSJavenger He has an element of control more than a straight gambler has. And that's how much he's betting based on the strength of the cards he's been dealt.
“Please invest in my gambling addiction. Thank you.”
First thing I thought 😂
They were surprisingly polite on this one, and they didn't need to!
This. ☝☝☝
This is actually incredibly common in poker and nearly all pros have a similar arrangement
Wow James Caan is such a gentleman. He's always so respectful. I have actually never seen him humiliate anybody in the Den. He is the embodiment of British politeness.
He’s a nightmare investor who treated his clients, from the den, like dirt. It surprised me too.
@@jessbarnes8521
😮 How do you know ?
Debra: "What's with the sunglasses?"
Gambler: "I'm a douche-bag"
Gambler: I am an obsolete imbecile!,
He’s actually a poker player, not a gambler!!
This one made me laugh, more than anything else I've seen on TH-cam in a long time!
@@S0L0M0NSWIG So he's a gambler then?
@@samuelholmes3696 Ssame here. Sort of surprised me, actually.
Peter didn't hold his poker face delivering his thoughts on this pitch 😅
He didn't have to have a poker face.
This is a particularly terrible idea on a show filled with terrible ideas.
Who knew deep down that as soon as he said he was a poker player, Deborah and Peter are gonna be out?
as soon as she said poker player all of them were always going to be out. Poker players are not a buisness investment opportunity
Deep down? It was written on their faces
If he is so good at making money by gambling, why does he need someone to give him money to start?
Basically, his wife told him that he was not allowed to touch the swedish summer house, so he would have to get his gambling money from some sucker.
ok boomer
he can even loan from his equity house in sweden. shady
This is actually incredibly common in poker and nearly all pros have a similar arrangement
@@Dailysam6 because it is a dumb and shady "game".
@sslaw6
But any pro worth investing in also has millions that he or she could get access to quickly if necessary.
The 20k bankroll he left himself according to his story after spending 500k on houses is nothing..
That's 1 bad night at a hi stakes cash game or 2 buy ins for a big tournament.
His story reeks of b s.
I'd wanna see bank statements etc before believing a word he said.
Strange! I remember Caan declining an alcohol related investment on religious grounds. I thought that he was going to declare himself out for the same reason, here.
I think going out because of religious reasons is different from this time where he was out as he had 0 invest and thought it was a terrible idea.
@@jackherer8256 u missed it
I thought the same.
He picks and chooses what’s good for him and what isn’t
It's not disallowed to gamble being a muslim, is there?
Is Caan even a muslim btw, I'm not sure what religious affiliation he has.
Checking out his live earnings in official tournaments, he won big in a tournament in 2006 (350,000ish) so before this was filmed.
Since that point, he has won less than that over the next 14 years.
How much as he gambled in that time compared to 2006? He might not have had the funds to make a big return
@@timeless4369 I dont know tbh.
Thing with poker players is that their winnings are well publicised but their outgoings are not. He could be up or down, only he knows the truth & you won’t find it on the internet.
He was looking for a sponsor more than an investor!
Mike Tyson made Don King millions being a gud boxer. Its the same thing
@@5tyyu it is to an extent, but neither are business models, which is what the dragons are specialists in, the lad was barking up the wrong tree
This is actually incredibly common in poker and nearly all pros have a similar arrangement
@@tomlafferty4651 There are literally thousands of people that make money by staking professional poker players in return for a % of their winnings. There are even websites that allow you to buy a piece of players before they enter a big tournament.
My guess is that he already tried to get sponsorship.
lmao what a guy, the producers brought him in to future proof a meme i suppose
His first pro match he made 355k usd then small amounts after that, total to this day is 673k earned. But that’s after 69 pro matches.
Ridiculous idea. 33 tournaments is far too few. It takes 2500+ tournaments to be ~99% sure you beat the games you're playing, because the variance is so high. It takes around 500 games to be 75% sure you're long-term profitable, accounting for variance. 33 is an insult. 33 in a year too?? What is this guy doing the rest of the time only playing one tournament every 9 days? 8 cashes out of 33 is a good amount for any professional, but sample size is far too small.
If he's so good, why doesn't he look for financial backing from stables that specialize in this sort of thing? Why doesn't he sell action/crossbook with other professionals? Why doesn't he sell a piece of his action for a mix of coaching/finance.
Poker is a game of skill, there's no way around this, but this guy is a joke. I hate when the game I love is so horribly misrepresented by people like this.
Pretty much. Why look for investment from dragons who are likely to not be interested in poker and aren't sponsors vs. just gonig to stables and looking for sponsors.
If he believes he's as good as he said, he would remortgage his house to float him and pay tournament expenses. If he had an investor, he would essentially be taking zero risk.
Not in live tournaments. The edge in live tournaments is much larger compared to online. That said, his first ever cash was that huge score and he has barely made anything anywhere close in the 17 years since.
He probably just wanted to get on a popular TV programme and boast about being a supposedly great poker player. Nothing more complicated than that.
Summer house in Sweden... I'm buying one in Antarctica next year.
I'm buying a summer house on Mars where it's usually -80 F.
What are you on about? Summers in Sweden has temperatures ranging between 25C and 40C.
Swedens summer temperature does not range between 25C-40C
@@nirakhsuk6131 40 degrees fahrenheit lol. Highest temperature recorded in Denmark is 36,4 degrees since 1880 and we're further south.
He could take out a second bond on his summer house in Sweden and use those funds to play poker with. Unless he's bluffing.
I feel like he should have asked for a ratchet up deal pitched to all five split between them.
Something like,
"Today I'm asking for 20k, I'm willing to insure that from my own pocket here today"
"All I need from the five of you, is 4k each"
"I ask for only that today because I'm confident in my abilities."
"Wanting the barrier of risk to be so low, you all are confident in that pittance returning as I am"
"After this quick demonstration of my decades long passion at the sport I'm certain will bring us all wealth, I'd hope we could arrange another contract raising the stakes a bit."
*Insert pitch over history of earnings*
*Explain how commonplace poker player investment contracts are in the industry*
*Hand out lists of scheduled tournaments, their locations, possible winnings, and expected costs associated*
*Break down the min/max amounts of time till ROI depending on best/worst placements*
*Maybe mention the psychology degree*
*Offer to wear their companies logos on my clothes as free advertising every tournament*
Follow it up with a hopeful statement about once proof of concept is shown there may be continued, incrementally higher risk/reward opportunities for all with less guaranteed insurance on my part as we build rapport.
*Gracious closing statement thanking everyone for their time with a little reminder we could all win!*
Then just hope they don't wanna be seen worrying about 4k when they're supposed to be "rich". Especially with the only risk falling on my shoulders mostly and no obligation to stay longer than the guaranteed ROI. Pretty sure they'd all buy in just to save face on tv.
Hopefully I'd rope in one or two dragons for a recurring investment after. Investments that grow larger after every successful repayment, gradually spreading the risk outward to more even distribution over the remaining group. Allowing me to bring home the big bucks eventually while not scaring away my meal ticket.
According to the Poker Database, this bloke has won about $16k since the start of 2018. The Dragon's would have got around $6500. Not the best return on a £65k investment!
and this was in 2009 😂
on how big an investment and over how many games? If its $10 or a free seat on 1 game , its great return , if its $100k and 1k games, not so good.
He seems like a decent player looking at his previous games on global poker index, he probably doesn't have the money to invest himself though. He seems to make money on almost every game he enters, but at 20k buy in who knows how he compares to players at that level.
While this is obviously a very odd proposition for the den, this way of doing business is very common in high stakes poker, where many tournaments costs 5 figures to enter, with high potential returns. So many pro players have investors to help limit the risk.
Ok dragons, I'm going down the bookies next week. I need an investment of 70k pls
Finally the flashing stop light guy has been dethroned for the worst pitch ever by this guy.
Listen Clambrain his pitch was perfect for his system , like horse racing there is form on which you decide your bet as in other sports . he says he has proof that he can win. like the Stock market , its based on performance etc
@@10wanderer If you ever had any money you'd lose it quickly.
Funny enough, that guy's idea of flashing lights on road signs are starting to be used more and more. He was ahead of the curve. Dragons missed out on that opportunity.
@StoneBoiii420 No, but they're still based off the same concept of attaching flashing lights to road signs. His IP was the overall form and function of the lights, being they had a curved surface and showed direction of traffic flow, while the system being used now is just a simple flashing light not protected under any particular IP that I'm aware of. What's funny is just the concept of attaching flashing lights to a road sign was mocked and ridiculed by the Dragons, but if they had invested in that guy's protected IP, and made efforts to have it implemented, they could have secured government contracts and made millions of £s.
@StoneBoiii420 I don't disagree, just saying it's funny that everyone mocks that guy for his concept of putting flashing lights on road signposts, yet more and more local governments are actually moving forward with that concept. I doubt there'd be any liability issues for that guy, as I've never heard of any company manufacturing the road signs or traffic lights getting sued by motorists.
This practice of getting someone else to cover your expenses as a professional poker player is actually so common that it's the norm among all the big name pros. Although that's usually considered "sponsorship" rather than "investing". It was worth a try though.
Right. But this fool isn’t a big name pro lmao
Sponsors don't receive dividends.
called staking and standard is 50 perent not 40
@@coalhouse1981 Thats true, but if you´re good enough you can do 60 40 easily.
@@Romans8-9 I agree but my point was that if he was a good poker player he won’t need the dragons . He could find a staker
So... "Give me money to play poker" 😂
How was this even allowed on Dragon’s Den? It’s not a business or a product....
I have been a professional poker player my entire adult life, I am almost 34 years old, poker can be a business for some people.
It's entertaining and it makes good TV
You guys upvoting this comment don't understand that poker sponsorship is actually a huge and growing industry. These guys are not 'addicts', they are calculated players that use mathematics and psychology to grind out an edge and make a long-term ROI over literally hundreds of thousands or even millions of hands... the top poker players that regularly get to the final tables of tournaments or are seen at the biggest cash games are NOT just gamblers relying on luck, that just doesn't work. You'd be wiped out incredibly quickly, as poker is largely a game of skill. So if you don't know what you're talking about, just say nothing, it's as simple as that. However, would I invest in this guy? No, but not for the reasons most are outlying. Not because it's all luck, but because its a continually changing dynamic ecosystem and there is so much information and skilful players out there these days that it's very difficult to sustain an edge especially in tournament poker that is also characterised by much larger variance and drawdowns than cash-game poker.
The producers just wanted some comic relief for the show. This is a ridiculous pitch. His fellow tournament pros would know if he is a good investment and if he is, they would take a deal close to what he is pitching. There is a reason he can’t get the money from other pros, and we know what it is.
The producers of dragon's den thought it would be funny
He should have presented it as a business: showing how much he won and lost in the last year's etc. But this way...
I like his concept of ROI. i had $5 in my pocket and by walking outside for awhile, I found a $10 bill. I have a ROI of 300% (ignoring my initial $5)
I don't blame the gambling guy for being here, I blame the show for allowing such an asinine pitch.
They're trying to show there is money to be made from poker staking.
2024 update on JJ: I looked on his Hendon Mob database and you can see in 2006 he had one massive cash 400k+ dollars, and then nothing much since. He is still active today, making multiple cashes in the low thousands and below each year. I'm surprised the dragons didn't want to look at his record in more detail because if he'd final tabled a load of mid steak events, the proposition is actually quite interesting, but in reality it looks like he fluked a second place at the very start of his career and then did nothing noteworthy since. They were right not to invest.
He is not a gambler, he is a poker player, a VERY GOOD POKER player goddamnit !!
He actually LOOKS like a "wide boy" gambler.
Chris Penn but a bit bigger
He gambles with his arteries 5 times a day. 😩
I think EA need to hire this guy. There not loot boxes there surprise mechanics, I'm not a gambler I'm a poker player.
Poker is not gambling.
@@singami465 Poker is gambling with some Skill involved.
@@Riot_Police Poker is like kinder eggs
@@Riot_Police "It's gambling, except it takes skill"
Okay, so it's no gambling. Do you even know the meaning of the words you're using?
@@singami465 Lol, yes. Game of chance for money you can modify the outcome with decisions but its still gambling. Learn more before trying to discredit people. Makes you look like a fool.
There are companies out there that specifically provide backing for professional poker players. He should be on one of those and attract investors that way.
I think you're referring to sponsors. They essentially pay for advertising but they don't receive a percentage of a player's winnings. Corporate sponsors pay race car drivers/teams to put company logos on cars and clothing. Most poker sponsors are companies with online and mobile gaming sites. If he truly is as skilled as he said and needed the money to pay entry fees, travel, lodging, etc for tournaments, he would remortgage his house.
JJ: So why are you sitting here and asking me for my children inherited money, you ask Theo?
Theo The Fetus: You're good at reading my mind.
Peters expression throughout the pitch pretty much sums it up 🤣🤣😎 this was a good one
looked up his poker stats, the number's hes talking about almost entirely come from one single tournament he got lucky in.
With his sunglasses on, in the thumbnail at least, it looks like somebody once told him the world was going to roll him... he left, asking if they could spare some change for gas
“I know you’ve won, so I’m not even gonna bluff you” - words of a true poker flop 😂
Looking at this guys track record funnily enough he hit big once in 2006 and then never again.
This guy actually won 450k at the Dutch Open in 2006.
Yep and hasn´t won a thing since.
Some ignorance in the comments section questioning why he doesn't use his own money.
The vast majority of professional poker players are sponsored by someone else. Duncan if anyone should know this.
The guys problem is he didn't have a significant track record to show the dragons that he can be a profitable player.
There are a ton of profitable players out there that need financial help to let them get to bigger games, if one of those people went on the den they'd be able to go on with statements from their online poker account showing how much they make every month or if they only play live they'd have receipts from casinos showing their profits/losses
This guy didn't have any of that.
If........a gamblers favorite word!
If......I win BIG, I would disappear!
If......I loose BIG, you never see me again!
It’s 3 50 am and I can’t stop watching DD clips, it was definitely better in the old days!
Mortgage paid off, 20k investment in his hand. Does he really need an investment 🤔 why cant he just win his way up.
He does not want to risk his money but want to use dragons money. Cheeky!🤑
I remember this, Vicky Coren wrote an article on why it was a good investment.
Title should be "I'm not a gambler I am a very good poker player" 😎
poker players looking for investment and giving a % of their winnings is very normal, but they need a patron, not a dragon
what the hell was that, i dont think he needed money or expertise of a dragon, he was just riding his luck and pulling strings. that was not even a proper pitch .
Me holding 7 2 off suit "I'm all in!"
Jenny holding AA "im out"
I laughed way too hard at that 😂
Really good poker players actually do this all the time. Not sure I would put this guy in that category
They also look for actual sponsors, not present this as a business to people who have little to no knowledge or interest in gambling.
Only a true gambler will say that he/she isn't a gambler.
There's always acceptions to the rule and his past success demonstrates that. He clearly wins more than he loses if he can pay his mortgage off and take his family on holidays around the world with his winnings.
@@ashleelmb Not really - he could have gone all in one time and got lucky with a massive pot. Gambling is plain and simple. You can win and lose lots of money in seconds - if he had the money then he’d back himself. The entire notion of what he’s saying is illogical - I’m a good poker player but I have no money to enter tournaments? Well then you’re not as good as you think you are.
@@dazediss6629 it takes a lot more time and energy to get the kind of money required to enter more, bigger poker tournaments that the dragons can offer him as an investment straight away. Also, if he has to play under pressure to accumulate the funds to enter the bigger tournaments, he could overload his mind and become disillusioned with the game, causing him to fail in those ones that pay the big money that really count.
@@ashleelmb Yeah - in other words, it’s gambling.
@@dazediss6629 I didn't say it wasnt
Yasss finally a new upload! I need my daily fix of Dragon's Den.. #addicted
very good answer/reponse all the question-good luck.
Guys, he needs the capital because he spends loads of money on family vacations. Understandable :)
- Every drug addict ever.
Bruh....I'm speechless. I liked how none of them even started writing anything down.
I want 65,000 and can guarantee you 50,000 of my winnings.
This guy 😅
*"I'M REALLY GOOD I PROMISE! JUST TRUST ME BRO!"*
💀💀💀💀
Not what he said
I went on to pitch for £1000 to put in the bookies FOBTs . . . . . They booted me out!
Was Dragon’s Den running short on entrepreneurs back then? Seriously, this was a guy pretty much saying “please give me your money so that I can go gamble with it”.
This was still during the poker boom. So a poker-related pitch would be pretty popular, probably.
Victoria Coren pints to the sense in spotting a good player needing investment, and shows it with examples in Guardian article. She asks if you can imagine a race horse owner telling Frankie Dettori 'No thanks mate, I'll ride it myself'.
True but you need to find the poker-playing equivalent to Frankie Dettori, and JJ Hazan definitely is not that!
This is just the posh equivalent of getting a payday loan and then going to the bookies
I watch this show for my homie Duncan!
Love this guy!
"I'm not a criminal, I'm borrowing money from the bank!"
You could see Peters reaction right away he was not impressed and thought the guy was wasting his time
If he was so good his family and friends would be throwing money at him
The majority of the dragons were respectful of an unorthodox opportunity which is nice to see
He's a Con Artist !!
I would've thought that the producers of this show would've stopped this guy from turning up right after the application process(assuming they have one and you can't simply rock up to the Den and pitch soemthing).
It’s a tv show. They wanted something absurd.
Is he serious?
He should just look for a patron instead of an investor.
as in patreon? Wasnt around back then
No. A patron. As in the actual meaning of the word patron.
@@Epic4Shots Also the correct spelling of the word patron...!
@@Epic4Shots No need to PATRONise
@@Epic4Shots Expecto Patronum
The Open Fetus
Duncan Vanitine
2:38
😂😂😂
The guys knows what he's talking about and sounds very intelligent and knowledgeable. I think it was a great pitch.
Then go and invest in someone like him!
Unfortunately his track record since vindicates the dragons decision.
@@whiskeytango5680 I'm just saying his pitch was solid. Rather good compared to many others actually. Not that the offer he made to the Dragons was interesting at all. I would never invest in 'calculated gambling'.
He was on 'the chase' last year, he has 17 kids and needs money
@@graham9352 He's addicted and hes saying what they want to hear. He doesn't have 17 kids.
@ 6:00 that grin on Theo's face, so tempting lol
Sign over your house, until you win what you've said, then everyone gets stacks of cash and you get your house back.........fold!
Its an investment, not a bank loan
If anyone's curious he still plays poker today and has made around 750,000 pounds in winnings. Still actively playing every month basically!
I think his cover is blown now, he would be lucky to get past a casino door.
I’M ACTUALLY SURPRISED HE ACTUALLY GOT ON THE SHOW.
INVESTING OR TAKING A PUNT IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT TO PLAYING POKER & GAMBLING.
IMO, ANYWAY.
Honestly, as weird as this was, it was kind of a refreshing change of pace from the many people who think that they have an amazing food item or baby product.
The way he bent those cards, this guy would’ve blown that money in a day
Why would he buy a house in Sweden? seriously, Isn't the weather shitty enough in the UK anymore?
The pretty blonde girls, he has 17 kids
@@graham9352 Well then, no wonder he's broke.
I think a young Peter would've been a great James Bond😁
Too tall.
Hang on, I thought this was a company investment programme, since when was ‘investing in some bloke to win a poker tournament’ allowed. I have missed something?
This was a 1 off weird thing
Some of the largest customers of bookmakers are companies that make money gambling on sports...
Oh for fucks sake. It just happened once, you hysterical drama queen
He makes some solid points about his “business” making an almost immediate return on investment. But it’s still a crazy gamble and I definitely wouldn’t invest in their portion
Business is always a gamble....
We cannot foresee the future aside from collective data and projection.....
The gentleman has data built over 25 years of poker and has built a projection from his win v loss...
I believe having a solid poker player in your business portfolio would be well worth the risk for a wealthy dragon....
Foolish not to back that dude....
He was honest and genuine...
The cash return day after tournament winnings sure seemed valuable in my eyes.....