🚩🚩🚩 1:12 love bombing "give me your number" 1:52 over-eagerness "when are we going to study the bible!?" 2:30 pressure to get baptized "what if you die?" 3:30 money and new members published numbers 4:09 pressure to attend every Sunday "what if you die pt II" 5:12 over meeting. three times a week... c'mon 6:07 young people married 7:16 arranged dating & friendships 8:16 invasiveness: pullovers unsolicited advice - hangouts bringing god all the time - double dating 10:52 discipleship partnership forever 11:32 ask for advice about everything! 12:12 isolation from family and friends not disciples 12:45 scolding for not asking for advice 13:27 everyone talks the same - personalities erased 14:17 gut feeling
I remember when my wife gave birth. Her and the baby weren't well. My Bible talk leader was more concerned about me being at Bible talk than with my wife and kid.
Even though we are still there, they hate when I come correct. I catch them every time. I always say if you gonna kick me out for the truth everyone gotta go to. They need to get rid of the leadership. People like Roger Lamb who was part of Kip McKean regime just rebrand the narrative with the same agenda
I went through many similar issues when I was a JW. You mentioned the identifying marks of a cult very well. Anyone who says it's not needs to watch your video. I heard another phrase that identify a cult I had to write down. It goes something like this. " The difference between a religion and a cult is what they do when you decide to leave".
SO glad you are speaking about this. They tried very hard to recruit me as a college student. Praise the Lord there was a speech at my college on identifying cults where this was listed as a confirmed cult for the exact reason you are saying---pressure to attend, pressure to tithe, love bombing, mandatory discipling, all the stuff you are talking about. I immediately quit returning their calls! Then I had one as a hairstylist and I had to quit going because she was trying to recruit me. The pressure to attend all activities, and every activity had a fee, I remember! "Let's go play flag football. You must bring $5."
I'm currently going through the process of leaving and I have a lot of anxiety. No one knows I'm planning on leaving except one person that I trust. Prayers would be dearly appreciated. 😞I'm on winter break out of state and when I come back I plan on attending a different church.
jzmnhrrs You’ll be fine girl don’t let them guilt you into staying. A good church knows that you are free to attend anywhere you want. It won’t have some locked in membership. Good luck and if you ever need to talk hit me up on social media!
I was in your exact same boat. Praying, but I agree with Tina, if you feel locked in don't go. Some of the bigger churches are stuck in traditions, but I'm finding the new generation rethinking almost every point Tina made in the video, and choosing NOT to do them or put pressure on other to do them. Maybe you can be a part of the new wave, too. Feel free to reach out if you disagree or want to chat :)
jzmnhrrs be strong. I was a member in NYC during the late 80’s. I was terrified to leave. I met a member my first week in NYC. I was invited to a singles group event. I knew no one in the city. So it became an instant family and support group. When I left it was so hard, because I had become so involved so I knew no one outside of the church. It was like I had just gotten there all over again. You will struggle and be tempted to go back. But you can do it. Prayers to you.
Yes this is it... they keep asking me about the guy I'm dating and how he feels about me taking bible study and are we equally yoked and are where are we headed, and what are we doing together. It's too much. Like leave me alone.
I completely understand. I was a member for a year, and It was very controlling. Mandatory bible talks, mid weeks, devotional Friday’s, and Sunday service. I have to work with their schedule, but they don’t realize I am a full time college. I have not back since last May, and mentality I am trying to recover from that experience. Right now my main focus is to graduate, and not let any distractions from the church stop me.
Jason VanEpps Awesome for u! Im so happy u left and realized what they were doing without allowing them to control and get in the way of ur schooling. A friend of mine was told she should drop out of college and she had a fulltime job and is a mom and a wife. I was told i should not have applied to school because i had a class ehich made me miss fridays bible talk meetings since i attended in the evenings. R they still trying to reach out to u now?
They were reaching out to me when I left. my family was helping me through the ordeal, and I was getting text from members asking where I was. I gave them answer, “I wanted to be with my family because I haven’t seen them in forever” they gave me that BS answer, “skipping church is risking your salvation” or something like that. And that pissed me off. But I do see them on campus “reaching out” and I try to avoid them as possible or they avoid me lol . Well in my friendly nature, if they do come up to me and I can talk to them, but I am not giving them a reason why I left because it’s not their business to know. I have to say one thing is thank you for the videos. I am know That am not only that went through this ordeal. Thank you again 👍✌️
David South i am doing better. Thank you for asking. Right now focusing on school, that’s already stressful as it, and I don’t need a church to put more stress on me LOL.
I remember a "brother" stepped on my hand intentionally. And at one point told my son to shut up(on a different occasion). I went off on him and they made me feel like I was wrong. He liked me and I feel like they down played it because they wanted to get he and I together. I was physically disgusted by him. He was almost 20 years older then me. I got my brother to join and they did everything to separate us. This man got in between me and my brother. They made him my real brother's disciplining partner. They tell you to bond with your family but that's because they want you to invite them so that they can be "saved" by the church. But then they try to separate you so that they can hatch their plans for your life and control you. My brother has since left...But our relationship is so.strained because of our interaction with people at the church. It's been almost three years. I'm growing spiritually at my new church but I have such a hard time trusting people. I can't believe I allowed myself into this place. I've always been strong they tried to break me but couldn't. I thank God that I struggled while at the ICC. Let's not talk about how they make you feel as a single mother at the ICC.
When I left after 10 years for some major disgusting reasons, I had brought my sister and brother in law in. They convinced my sister not to talk to me. We had been really close. We are totally estranged now. They destroyed our family because my brother in law was successful and they wanted to keep that cash flow, I believe. They are very destructive in so many ways. My oldest tried to commit suicide from the fallout of leaving. Etc.
Hi there. I want to just commend you for speaking out. I was apart of the ICOC for 20 years. I was a part of a family that was very “powerful’. I left in 2009. It was a VERY hard exit, I’ll just say that. Thank you for sharing.
Girl, it’s been 22 years since I left. I was in 11 years and my hubby was in 22 years. We both often tell each other it’s the best decision we ever made for ourselves and our kids. Seeing that my kids didn’t end up on drugs or pregnant in high school (the constant warning from members about leaving) I realize the threats were a lie. We lost our entire social circle, but we gained great relationships with my family (non cult members) and getting new friends. So still best decision I ever made.
Hi Tina ive been a part of this church for over 30 yrs. The thing that drew me to the church was the very critcisms you voice here. The unbelievable thing is that when I searched the scriptures for myself this is exactly what the scriptures call us to be. Being a disciple does mean that God is the center of my life. It means living a life of surrender to Gods word and Gods way. I do believe that in living a surrendered life I am called to be humble and teachable, I am called to love my brothers and sisters, to be sacrificial in my giving to God and to my brothers and sisters in the church first and foremost then to everyone else, Im called to look out for my brothers and sisters and to see to it that we keep each other accountable and away from temptation and sin--kinda like spiritual buddies. I became a disciple when I was in medical school and I never missed a meeting of the church--there were many times when I didn't feel like going but I went not because people made me go--no one could make me do anything I didn't want to do--I did it because that's what I knew God expected of me from what I read in the scriptures. If I felt any pressure at all it was to obey the scriptures not any person.I also got married in the church and have been married now for over 28 yrs. I have faced many challenges in my marriage and raising my children but I am most grateful for discipleship relationships where I can freely share my struggles and get Godly advice to be a better wife, mother and person and to have a marriage that brings glory to God.Through discipleship I have learned humility( something that God loves) and am still learning humility and I have grown spiritually as my brothers and sisters sharpen me by helping me to not only see my true self but how to change to develop more Christlike characteristics. Ive also learned how to forgive--true forgiveness and reconciliation. Ive also learned that at the foot of the cross is level ground so no one is better than the other. Each of us has fallen short. That we all need grace--from God and from each other.the thing that is most valuable to me and to any true follower of Christ will be my relationship with God-why? because nothing else will last. Money,fame, education, status, children, yes even your hair will not last( im referring to what you said about not wanting to get your hair wet) when you love someone--and a true disciple is called to love God with everything they possess and everything they are-- those are things that fade in importance--the bible does teach that.majority of the things you call red flags are things that are pointed out in the scriptures. of course they will seem weird to those who don't know the scriptures or who haven't searched the scriptures. I was just like you before I gave my heart completely to serve God and put Him first in my life. I wanted to do my own thing, my own way and be my own person. You cant be that and also be a true Christian. A true Christian which according to the bible is the same as a disciple/ follower of Christ is a slave to righteousness; is an ambassador for Christ- 2Cor 5:20 ff--who literally begs other people to come to know Christ. is a soldier in the army of God--soldiers take care of each other and protect each other and strengthen and encourage one another--by spending time together on the same mission; called to live a life of self denial not one that is led by my feelings--There are many days I don't feel like going to work but I get up and deny myself and go bc there are many sick ones waiting to be healed--same with going to church and this for a much greater calling. I will not be able to practice medicine some day but my walk with God and my relationship with him will never end--its priceless and worth everything I have and am.Why all this because we take seriously our commitment to the only sovereign God. We pledge a good conscience before God at the time of baptism and through faith we a washed of sin and receive the gift of the indwelling Holy spirit. We are filled with inexplicable joy as we come to understand the abundant grace and forgiveness afforded to us because of Jesus being willing to deny himself even unto death upon the cross. We are excited and joyful( joy is not circumstantial and comes only from God). the world knows happiness which is dependent upon circumstances. So of course we will seem weird--they said the same things about Jesus-- so it is a compliment to us as disciples to be considered weird or different! I have a peace that is truly beyond my understanding and I seldom worry for anything because I know Im living and fighting everyday to live a live in surrender to Gods word. I have a purpose in my life--to do Gods will and so I strive daily to be imbued by His word his will and his way. Its so worth it being a true disciple.I don't know what is your career field but I can tell you that in medicine you better be humble, teachable, seek lots of advice from those who are teaching or training you, follow instructions to the letter and be ready to deny yourself and be sacrificial to become a doctor let alone a good one. To make it in the world you have to submit to its orders and rules and protocols. in a similar way to make it in Gods kingdom, to have a relationship with God and a lasting one, how much more should you submit to His will and His way. I can safely say no disciple has ever asked you to do anything that was against God's word. Please let me know if they did. I want to encourage you Tina to use this platform to call people to obey Gods word. I get the impression you feel you know better---then why not use this to teach the better--teach Gods word. If you read Acts chapter 5,:17-39 Gamaliel the prophet warned that God will fight His own battles; that in due time he will take care of all false prophets /people. I would encourage you therefore to beware that you don't find yourself fighting against God. Why not just preach or teach what you know to be the truth of the Gospel. I think your efforts will be more beneficial and you will be pleasing God if you are preaching according to his word--and I know that's what you desire to do otherwise you would not have sought after God.I know this is long but I hope you take the time to read it. I usually ignore these posts but i felt led to speak out today. I am soo grateful to have made the decision to become a disciple in the church of Christ. god bless and all the best
I was in the ICOC from 1988-2007, and all the red flags that Tina shows were true when I was there. I cannot speak to how each fellowship is because some still follow Mckeanism and others follow a hybrid of McKeanism and Reformation theology. The Denver Church of Christ ( where I attended ) is experimenting with various theologies but still teaches McKeanism in their conversion studies. It is not normal nor right to hold the fear of Hell above believers. It is not psychologically healthy to have relationships with zero emotional or spiritual boundaries which these churches still have( even if they no longer preach the one-over-one discipleship spiritual pyramid scheme.). I have been diagnosed with bipolar I disorder since 1992. I left for 2 years because I couldn't handle the church and be bipolar. I came back in 1994 because I was so ensconced into their system and I thought that I was going to hell as a "fall -away". I came back and was "restored" according to them, and I married in the church in 1995. I was fine until 2000 when I had to stop working due to bipolar depression. There was very little knowledge nor sympathy for me and my mental health. My older sister was also living with schizo-effective bipolar disorder and she was often told to forgo her medications and ended up in the hospital a lot before she left in 1987. I finally left after going through some PTSD therapy and I did fall-away from God and became an Agnostic for several years and my husband became an atheist when we left in 2007. In 2012 I began to go to my Mother's church. It is a Presbyterian church and there are, I believe, saved Christians there also. I believe that the Holy Spirit is like the wind and goes where Faith is. Yes, get baptized, but it is not the only way to experience salvation and Jesus. Being surrendered to Jesus and making him Lord does not mean surrendering your common sense and wisdom. If you see red flags like Tina and I saw, the pray and read your bible, and do some investigating online from former leaders and members. Read "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" and "When God's People Let You Down" by Jeff VanVonderen. See the ICIC in these books and Leave!
God is love and there is no right or wrong. That's is why God is non judgemental. The church judges each other too harshly. If one chooses to leave the icoc there should be no condemnation in Christ. If Christ is within us then we choose to abide in Christ. If one wishes to leave an icoc. They are looked down upon with shame,judgement almost condemnation and people are filled with guilt, remorse etc. These people who leave the church of Christ were given free will to choose to worship Jesus and God aka love from all of their being. We don't have to go to the icoc to be saved. We are saved by faith. By belief that we are loving,kind, respected just as Jesus said love each other as I have loved you. But icoc I see you say teach the truth. But that this channel is her truth. Religion is controlled but God gives us guidelines to love in every way possible and to follow Jesus example. He chose to forgive others and I don't see true forgiveness in icoc more judging and belittering then placing you in fear.
Don't be fooled. You are not following God at that church. The church is your god. "God" is just what they use to pull you in. Then, "God" is replaced with church activities FIVE times a week, "advice" from your discipler, obeying your "leaders," giving your money to the church (special contributions should be a crime), no life outside of the church, numbers, numbers and more numbers. Thank God they kicked me out.
I'm here to reach out to anyone that was in this cult. I was born into it and managed to get out when I was 17 ....after so much mental and emotional abuse I drove into a life of drugs and mental illness. I tried to commit suicide a few times but couldn't because I didn't want to go to hell. I'm 35 now, have a successful career and what seems like a successful life. But I need to just get into contact with someone who went through this as I'm trying to heal past traumas.
I was a part of the cult from 1999 until 2001. I was excommunicated because... just because. I was spiritually and emotionally screwed after that. It took 10 years for me to step into another church, but I find that I no longer trust organized religion. Now, it's just me and God in this journey.
I came very close to suicide after a 10 year stint and my oldest child at age 15 tried suicide from the fallout a couple of years out. I have truly never recovered. It destroyed my life, my family on many tiers. I understand. They throw you away like garbage. Lie about you, etc. It's so evil. Only after leaving you began to find out the evil underbelly of leadership and the things they cover. I was in shock and should have been. Hospitalized. I finally found a wonderful woman who specialized in abuse in churches.
"Sam Laing is flat out awesome," I heard many, many times at the Triangle Church. Sam Laing is a snake. My ICOC experience wasn't the worst. There were many wonderful ppl at the church that saw the bs, but we ask has Stockholm syndrome. The leadership of atrocious. Their doctrine is against the Spirit. I would go back just to warn ppl that they are involved in a destructive cult that lies and deceives every time they open their mouths.
9 years me and my first wife were part of this cult. August of 1998 the minister shows up at our home unexpected. Gives us the "special contribution" check back and tells us not to come back. We were kicked out of a cult. I think I have seen it all now.
The irony, for me, was that I grew up in the Roman Catholic Church. I stayed away from organized religion for decades because of the way the Catholic Church brainwashed me and made me believe I was not good enough for God. When ICOC manipulated me, I caught it right away. They couldn't do it because I learned from my experience from the Catholic Church. You will be the same. ICOC hurt you, but you are also much wiser now. Every experience strengthens.
I know the signs...i've been a member for years too. Almost 16 years ago. It took some time to heal. But I guess the experience made my faith stronger.
I was also a part of the ICOC and what you are describing is extremely accurate. we share the same birthday, and they also wanted me to get baptized on my birthday but I pushed back. I eventually got baptized and attended that church for 10 years of my life, and almost messed up my life goals. I am still dealing with the trauma. Hope you are well.
I'm so glad I found your channel. I was raised in a religious cult and although I left 3 years ago I still feel lost. I don't feel like I have an identity because all of my childhood I was a church girl. Thank you for sharing your story
Scientifically Sheila Awww I'm sorry you went through that. I'm glad you found the channel too. Be sure to stay tuned, I upload weekly videos. Also, i have a FB recovery group for former cult members and those who dealt with "church hurts spiritual abuse. Beautiful Souls spiritual recovery, come join it if u like for emotional support!😊
Yes, I do understand the tricking into Bible studies and "hanging out" turning into Bible studies. What gets me is that they start saying "my lead". When they start saying "I, me, us" it became a huge red flag because they are human flesh and I'm not following man. I'm following Jesus Christ. God leads me not people. I pray to God to confess my sins, I pray to God to lead me in the right direction, I lean to God when I have issues or i'm not feeling well. God, not you. God makes the final judgement on the last day and is the deciding factor on who goes to heaven not man. They did tell me that satan Is pushing me away too. I just rolled my eyes. I was thinking to myself "No that's GOD tell me to run!" The good that I got out of all of this was that I seen it within 4 weeks of attending . So I didn't get to deep in and I didn't get baptized, however what I did wrong was tell them how I felt. I told them that I felt horrible , tricked, disturbed, judged, and irritated. They just looked at me and then started throwing scriptures at me and then grabbed a chair for me to sit down. I backed away and I left within 15 mins. I wasn't about to have a bible battle with them. That's where I failed. What I should have done was not show up and not say anything ever again. Because my heart is so good I did what I thought was right. Sometimes what I think is right isn't the best choice. So I prayed to God and I said if this is the church for me then lead me back here. I haven't been back...
@Gabriela Castro exactly, they do cherry pick verses. It's called minipulation. It's all in the spirit though. If the spirit isn't right then you have to leave. There are certain fruits that you have to depict. There are bad fruits and good fruits and they weren't a good fruit. I also had no problem studying the word but it was the certain verses that they would use to study with you. I too studied on my own and asked God for revealence and decernment. I've been fine ever since I left. My daily readings and understanding have made a significant difference in my life. The spirit definitely leads you in the right direction.
@Gabriela Castro that's fine. They go for the younger generation. That's why they are on campus. I'm gonna tell you. Do Not get in a Bible battle with these people. Run!! Let God deal with it. I'm so serious... They will try to convince you otherwise and to think their way. You have to be strong!
I was in the LA ICOC from 1990 to 2012. From when I was 21 to 42 years old. I became an Atheist and I left in 2013. When I look back, I missed out alot of possible job advancement opportunities because of I had to have off Wednesdays and Fridays. And as a brother, we got chastised for not being quality men for the sister's. It was such a waste of my time.
Oh my gosh!! This is so accurate. The "Pull overs". I got pulled-over for having a bra strap showing. Or a tiny bit of cleavage. We would have midweeks where they told us exactly how to dress. We had to all read the same ministry approved books. "Help Meet" being the absolute WORST! It makes me laugh now, but all of what you say is spot on!! Oh... Also got rebuked for forgetting to bring "Women's Day" Tickets to service. And when leadership felt you really messed up, they would not stop the verbal rebuke until they made you cry and you had sufficiently shown repentance,
I remember they hounded me 24/7 when I told them I wasn’t baptized and would never quit talking to me about it, even though I told them I didn’t want to get baptized yet. They don’t understand boundaries at all
People who come out of the international Church of Christ are so traumatized that they can't just walk away from it. It messed with their heads so much and were so traumatized that they have to talk about it over and over again so they can heal.
Arthur Riechert Yup sadly so people do repeat it to themselves like many traumatic situations. That’s just a sign of trauma. But that’s why I have this channel to help those who can’t let go of what they’ve been through and to help them see that there is life outside of the cult. Only time I talk about it is here on this channel for those who need help recovering. It’s no longer a part of my life now but it is simply a chapter🤍
I understand totally what you are saying and somehow I agree but this was because of Kip Mckean's leadership. I saw that those times were so hardline and legaslistic. But this does not mean that the church is a cult. However, majority of the members are truly good-hearted and decided to become a christian because of their love for God. I was so angry too for a time coz I felt that because of the high standard and expectation I was considered a fall away when I fell short. But God is in control...God loves his church and his true worshippers who worship him in spirit and in truth, people who love him and call upon his name. Now, Kip Mckean is no longer a leader or a part of the ICOC. At that time many christians struggled, divided, stayed and left. Those who remaim, remain faithful in the Lord. Now, no one is being forced to do anything they don't want to do. Though they encourage them to be devoted to God, to the Scriptures and to the fellowship. There have been so many changes in discipling and no one os being forced to obey the advice nor do they give advice without one asking for it I am sorry for what you have gone through...I have gone through it myself. But God is merciful to all and God will save his true people from shepherds that are not truly so. He loves us...all of us. One thing I would really like to assure you..most of the members of this church truly love God and based on my experiences people in this church do not intentionally harm people...I would still trust them coz I know they want me to stay faithful to God and when it comes to friendship some has the best of friendships here compare to myselh coz I am not so good at it....but those friendship are really blessed by God.
You said it, was a member for 8yrs left the church in 2008, the truth is until now my spirit is with them. I stand here to say boldly that ICOC is not a cult. I will say that over and over again. I look forward joining the church again God helping me.
They are a very manipulative and controlling cult. You know in your heart that they are not of God. I'm not talking about the rank and file members. I'm talking about the leadership, the doctrine, and their entire system. 100% cult.
I knew someone who joined the ICOC in college. We knew each other from InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. After she joined the ICOC, we in InterVarsity never hung out with her again. That was a red flag to me, because it seemed like the ICOC was either taking up all her time or convincing her the InterVarsity was bad. I'm inclined to think the latter, because if it was taking up her time outside of class, surely she could've had time to come to lunch or church with us, but no. Also my college did not allow the ICOC to establish a campus group, so if they met on campus it was against the rules, unless it was in someone's dorm room. Those two factors were major red flags to me, so thankfully when I was later approached by them on a different campus I did not go to their studies or church! I'm sorry that you were wrapped up in this!
Girl yes cliques, having to be at Church all the time like it's crazy, and if you truly love God you'll be totally concentrated on serving God while single ( I have many problems with that) , family is second and categories of people .
Girl had us going EVERY Sunday, Tuesday/Wednesday, Friday, and Saturdays a lot too. It was horrible. I didn’t have a life outside of it. So when I left I was completely lost
Reminds me of the reg flags i should have noticed when I got recruited , like 1. people I hardly knew asking for my phone number. , ( done with a sense of entitlement ) , 2. wanting to be with me all the time like nearly every day , 3 . no respect for peoples boundaries ( when you say your not free tomorrow they still insist on meeting tomorrow etc ) or if you say you need to go now for an appointment etc its not respected . 4 . invasiveness :- I found it annoying how when your single they think they have a right to ask who are you romantically interested in in the church and they don't keep your info secret . 5. Self righteousness : ( and elitism ) even on 1st day I could tell they would put down my previous church .
Actually all churches a mind-controlling Institutions. I came from a Catholic upbringing, which I left after seeing what Priest do with people's offering. I met a Coc got baptised 1st 3 months or so are normally fine. Then doctrine comes where you are forced to separate yourself from all your loved ones because the bible says do not yoke with non-believers. People are forced to go back to the oldest memory they had and confess sin (opening up old wounds) and playing on their emotions. When you in if you think they care. Students were sometimes told not to go home for summer break because they were not strong enough to convert their families. I remember a single mom who was really struggling with 2 kids and they would guilt-trip her into walking long miles to church. Before she got baptised there was always a sister picking her up. Now she was told she must seek first the Kingdom and she will be blessed. My dad was out of work and I had to help my mom with my brother financial which meant I had to reduce my offering. The told me that was a sin because I had to seek first,,,,,,,I believe charity begins at home so I left. Even their bible says if your brother is hungry and you say I pray for you and not meet his material needs when you that makes you a hypocrite. Then went to UPI in Germany, same confusion different county. Now I'm done.
This is so accurate! I am going "undercover" right now in a European section of the ICOC. I was approached a month ago by a random guy at the university. Who invited me to a bible study circle. He was very direct and handed my phone to add me like directly. I am a religious person so I thought it would be a fun idea. So I've been going to this bible circle. This guy also wanted to meet for "a coffee" on several occasions, and he always pulled up a bible during all these "sessions" and started reading. I didn't mind though since I like to discuss and study the bible. But I've noticed the warning signs so I started googling about what church he was a member of and it was part of the ICOC. So through reddit I actually found their "conversion" script, and I recognized all the bible verses and the interpretations that they made. Luckily I am brought up in a christian home (my father is a priest etc), have good knowledge about the bible, have a quite big social life and also strong willed so I won't be fooled by them. There is one guy though who only after 3 weeks let himself be baptized in there church and now he seems to be deep in to it. Pretty crazy. Still I am a bit bummed out since I wanted to have some christian friends too (My country is very secularised). But it is what it is, ICOC are not in my opinion true christians anyways. I might go to some more of their activities just for the lulz, but I am always on my watch. Anyways good channel keep it coming and I hope you will be able to restore your faith and not let it be ruined by a group of radical heretics. God bless you!
Hi Tina! I have had many similar experiences and I think you'll be happy to hear that I am currently changing that within the church. At least beginning with mine, I agree with what you're saying about it all being too much and a bit weird to say the least. So I'm personally making changes within my church and hope to bring that to all of ICOC. I hope all is well with you!! And good job trying to create awareness 👍🏽🤗
Hi Tina. I am sorry for your experiences. Unfortunately to some extent it can be seen as "cultish" but then the same was said about our beloved Jesus. I believe it is a church of good people with good intentions with a flawed application of scripture. Unfortunately all your "red flags" are in contradiction with scripture....perhaps if you knew the Word of God better or had been more mature in your faith...this happens over time and suffering...you would know that....you needed to build your OWN convictions based on your own study of the scripture. You did not reference a single Bible verse and that is all that matters to us fanatical Christians 😁What you are doing now...denouncing this group is not right..be careful.. If they are wrong God will expose it and let them reap what they are sowing.. But if your perceptions are wrong based on spiritual immaturity your are doing harm...to your own..followers/cult.
I love this video. I grew up in the ICOC and got baptized at 17. Stayed so long to please my parents. Finally left the ICOC for GOOD about 4 years ago. I am so happy now. My parents finally realized how controlling they were and left too!!!
🤨Most churches won’t even notice that your missing, let alone acknowledge your presence. I would prefer a church that knows about each member, and actually wants to build relationships with us over a church that is cold and lacks love/relationships. Also, at most church’s people throw stacks of money at the pastors, but those churches won’t even tell you what they’re spending the money on. I’m grateful for how upfront we are with the finances.
Keyanna Kold I’ve attended churches that knew the members without feeling the need to control their members decisions and lives. They exist thankfully. I’m glad you are enjoying your membership in your church, that’s great 👍🏽 .thanks for watching. 💞
Oh, please, when the church imploded back in the early 2000s they came clean about lying about what they did with the Special contribution, etc. Ppl left in droves. Sorry you are still under this illusion and buying that bullshit.
Yes, I will attest that students were really, really, busy, because they were the source of most future evangelists and women's leaders. They basically arrange marriages and strictly control who dates whom. (for the most part, we were single so we got married regardless of the fact that some people didn't want us to get married). We were not going to have children and this just boggled the minds of the married women with children. They thought it was selfish of us not to have kids within the first five years of our marriage. There were no boundaries, you were expected to confess your sins to your discipler and your sins were gossipped about to leaders. All the leaders knew about my sexual abuse and masturbation. (like a few times a year, not bad in my opinion). I was very "fruitful" in college, but I was suffering from an undiagnosed bipolar disorder, so I was "needy" or "emotionally and spiritually unstable) before my diagnoses in 1992. Mandatory "fun" times; volleyball, basketball leagues, softball leagues, etc. Mandatory "meetings of the Body of Christ" groom honoring and wedding showers (even if you didn't know the people personally) and paying for gifts for those events. Paying for a "gift" for the visiting Evangelists/ Women's leaders. Women's Day was totally mandatory and ask your women relatives. I could go on and on. Just a lot of controlling and they had to know everything, your sins, your thoughts, no emotional boundaries, if you don't do a list of things every day, your salvation is at stake. You must convert, convert, convert. NO exceptions to the RULE.
How long ago did you leave? As a kid I grew up in this church. I went through the studies 3 times. Would get to light and dark and tell them no. They are still trying to get me to go. It’s been 20+ years since that traumatic upbringing.
The 4 times i went to a cocc they attacked me! My salvation is secure in Christ, they wouldn't accept that. The last attack of a false accusation on me was enough!
I got wrapped up in ICOC in my early college years. I never felt safe and was told that I was “not pure” but felt a weird pressure to keep going back. Everyone had their roommates picked out for them, they tried to pick friends for me, and I saw multiple arranged marriages. I’m glad I left!!
I went to the Sydney ICOC. It was extremely abusive. I read a book that helped called, cults inside out by Rick Allen Ross. Please tell other people about this book that were from that horrible church. Please keep telling others about this crazy horrible church as well.
I remember they asked my mom “ who do you love the most?” ...she said “my daughter” and the icoc members said God needs to be #1 or you will go to hell.
Tina, how long ago did you leave? I have not heard of the church being like this in over 15 years. The leadership has completely changed. We are supposedly so chilled out now that Kip felt the need to start a new group ICC since the old version wasn't radical enough
Rob Young I left three years ago and that is the myth, That they have changed and chilled out but unfortunately not all of them have changed and they’ve only chilled out with some things a tad bit but it’s still bad enough to be a cult and manipulative and very damaging.
So glad to have decided to search up this “church” that my friend is unfortunately in. She is actually on the ICC side, but the red flags are looking pretty much the same. Someone who does “one-on-one meetings” over Zoom currently gave me her number last week at a group Bible study, and today I have blocked it after my research. I have never really liked many churches, but I was actually going to give this a chance and I’m so glad I didn’t. I’m worried for my friend now, but I’ll keep trying to slowly drop some sense onto her, she’s so sweet, almost too sweet 😣 I’m thinking I can expect for her to eventually not want to be friends anymore, which is sad because I love her, but I’ll be praying. Thank you so much for this information, God Bless! ❣️
I was apart of the church in the 90s when it was hard body, tithing was monitored, no datong outside church, mandatory discipling, i heard they have since relaxed those rules. Your complaints are spot on. Its been almost 20 yre since i left, and i dont regret it one bit, it served me well in my early 20s, like spiritual boot camp.
Yeah I heard it was relaxed now too compared to the 90's but their rules still seem pretty much set in place. I think that only some churches are chill now but most like the one I attended are still pretty demanding. I'm glad u left that alone too
girl tina marie Im right there with you..I missed one sunday...they went haywire.....my phone got overloaded with text..dang girl you and me have thesame disgusting experience with this church.It just made me more disgusted my enthusiasm rapidly fade away...then those ladies who were at my bible study started to act awkwardly at first to the point of they never spoke with me..I havent met a very judgemental group of cult crazies.
Currently taking bible study to be baptized here. Yesterday's bible study was them overly pressuring me about the guy I'm dating... my first red flag. so here I am doing research. I'm not going through with it... thanks for making your videos...
I have been studying the Bible with them and don’t know what to think. I see all these things and they really got me questioning my salvation with the whole baptism thing. Other than that I love them and all and feel like they helped me grow closer to God.
human bean that’s how it starts- they make u question things like your salvation, your life, your goals, yourself. That’s how it starts. Be careful and make your own decisions if you want to be A member. Best of luck to u 💕
This needs more views because *holy* (huehue) *shit* are these people crazy. They got my parental unit hooked in and thus me, as I was their child. Barely saw family again after that as they pretty much sucked away all my parental unit's free time. Along with that good 'ol ICOC brand brainwashing. Something just never sat right with me and as I grew up in the 'church', I hardly attended mass--just goofed around in 'Kingdom Kids' ugh--such a lame thing to call your sunday school..
I was Jehova's Witness we went house to house, 2 times meeting plus saturday preaching ir someone went a lot all the time omg and now i can see more reliligon like this. I lost all my friends we cant talk at all if i have family in they wont talk with me also anymore.... at my work a lady is from Church of Christ she gave me a bible thats why im lookimg your video.... 😅 thanks for this
Outstanding videos. So helpful and a wonderful resource for those who have or need an exit from this cult. Very articulate and heart felt. Thanks muchly
There was an investigation with 20/20 from around 1993. I recall one ex-member said that some people in her particular group were starved (calling it fasting) and kept im the basement
I have a lot of people from this church, please I am trying to find out what is the background of the original ones like kipp mckean to see where the believe originated from
Im sorry I have no idea where he got his beliefs from. They usually say that they are just simply following the doctrine as it say- taking it literally and mainly only focus on the new testament. But you can try googling it and finding that information
lmao we have the same birthday, anyways tell me why my disciple, wanted me to go running with him and i refused, then the next bible study he mentioned me not going running and he practically said i was sinning not for going running with him, and he said "next time i tell you to go running you go!" .Us Libras are intuitive we know when somethings off.
Wow, am I glad I found this church during a global pandemic because it kept them at arm's length. I actually sought out the Bible study, which I did every morning. There were red flags and after about 6 weeks of online study (and one socially distant in-person meeting), I confronted some contradictions in their message over a Zoom call. To be fair, I'm 50 years old and the chapter in my city is run by people half my age. I can understand why they target younger people. They didn't have a lot of credibility with me because none of them had enough life experience. I was like - sure, you were living life a certain way and then you found this church - but that was a 5 year period. Try being "a certain way" for 30 years and changing. Life's not that simple. One of the biggest red flags was them preaching that wisdom didn't have to come from experience, it could come from just plain OBEDIENCE to the gospel (small print - the gospel interpreted by them).
Good morning 🌞 Ms Tina my name is Mark Anderson and I used to be a member of the church of Christ years ago.about 93,94 and I also left for just about those same reasons I see their still up to there same old strategy have a great day and stay safe.
This whole video just screams run away. Not ICOC but my religion is not one to pressure. Not going to say which because it doesn't matter but I am a Christian. I feel sad if I don't spend time with God. Never felt like church was 'necessity' but I do feel WAY better when I go. Should I be worried that my boyfriends church buddies are asking questions about me? He said he would convert to my faith if they try to ostracize him for dating a non ICOC female. Love the videos! Blessings man!
I dated (eventually married) someone who was in the church and since I grew up baptist and was not yet baptized in the ICOC, when they found out we were together they said either break up or stop coming to the church. People in the ICOC are only allowed to date other members and only if they’ve gotten approval. All that just to say, they do take it really seriously and cut people off for it.
I’m observing a church right now that doesn’t break couples up even if one hasnt been baptized in their church but instead equips them to have a strong relationship. There are healthier ways of doing things outside of ICOC system which tricks many into believing only in their way.
Homegirl. .. I have experienced all that. Especially a triple date that I didn't even know was a date.lol . I was invited by a sister and these questions made their way around the table. I played along and the question asked how I felt about homeschool. I just wanted to eat and conversate. I was thrown off.. And the whole separation and groups. I fell out of a lot of categories. They didn't know what to do with me. I'm too free to be labeled. . But I am now in a church of Christ without mentors and it's helping me to grow my own relationship with. . God which is essentially harder when there is no one looking over your shoulder but so rewarding once you you start developing the strength and persevere , you can become the source of encouragement for the real ones. . So I appreciate you, just hope it doesn't stop you from an authentic relationship with God
Ahahahah! You're so funny! Well I'm definitely happy to hear that your are pursuing a relationship with god with a church that makes you feel comfortable and free to express your Christianity. I have a relationship with God, just not in the way a Christian would approve, lol I'm not subscribed to Christianity or any religion anymore
During my time 1993-1997, it felt like I had reenlisted in the military for a second time. The 'officers' were Bible Talk leaders and above who could be obnoxious to the point of brutal, arrogant, invasive, and demeaning. .And, there was way too much emphasis on "being fruitful." Look, if you were extroverted and results-oriented (the perfect bean counter with social skills) you were going to have a future as a high status disciple. If you marched by a different drummer, you were going to "struggle." Honestly, my best "struggle" was getting the hell out and never looking back! :-P But, to do that, you have to have a very clear conscience (harder for some), and then the resolve to make the greatest prison break of your life. Bottom line, you can't tell ANYBODY and when you move out, obviously don't give them any contact information as to your new non-disciple residence. I see the ICOC still sucks from what you're telling us. No surprise. Even though Sir Admiral Kip walked the plank years ago, the apple hasn't fallen far from the tree.
The leaders are 'Wolves in sheeps clothing'. They bear bad fruit (not good). They don't even have the Holy Spirit nor are they Christlike in any way. They are the opposite of what love is meant to be according to 1 Cor 13
The founder Kip McKean had a family military background and used tactics to build the church foundation. Looking up church history and seeing how certain practices started gives insight into what is really man made versus biblical.
It takes time to heal Ruthie. For now,the sweet taste of freedom (including being home Sunday, as well as Tue night, Wed night, Fri night, Thur night, Sat mornings) - is wonderful. They are wolves in sheeps' clothing and don't even know God. (Those who know God, know love, those who don't know God, - don't show love). This church - shows no love. The bible says if we don't love, our beliefs are worthless.
I left in 2002 and still haven’t healed. I believe in Goad and that he created the world, but that is about it. I doubt almost everything...Christianity and other religions. I have taken a look in the history of religion, but not sure I came to many conclusions other than most are following one man or another. Good luck in your journey. Watching and reading other people’s experience help me not feel crazy.
I absolutely hatedddddd unsolicited advice. And many times, it wasn't even good advice! But, "we have been given the mind of Christ", they'd say. They hated when I countered with the fact that not everyone is spiritually mature, and that they needed to watch their ego in thinking they knew everything they were talking about. The passive aggressiveness that would ensue for being assertive was downright spiritually abusive
Hi Tina Marie. I'm just wondering why you were with the ICoC seven years before you left it. Is this because the effort ICoC was making to make you fearful of leaving?
Nelson Cheng Hey, yeah I had a lot of fear and guilt placed on me from the members and the doctrine they teach which is something most people who stay knowing they should leave go through. That’s why I made this channel for those who have that same fear I felt to leave, helping others listen to that intuition and walk away because it only gets worse longer you stay.
@@TinaMarieJ As I have told you before, I went to a Bible Study with the CoC here in Toronto. That one meeting made me so scared that I decided not to meet up with the minister as I had originally planned. So, I can just imagine how fearful and troubled you must have felt. And I'm thankful you got out. Others may not be as fortunate. Recently, a Christian friend, who used to be a teacher in a school, told me how a former student, who was attending a CoC, ended up committing suicide. This student approached my Christian friend about salvation. My friend asked the student to approach the CoC she was attending about what they believed. And according my friend, the student later ended up taking her own life, due to the stress she was going through with the CoC.
Is that thumbnail a sign too lol? I notice they make That face when they are really trying to convince me. That was like the very first thing I noticed apart from God bringing up a dream He gave me that warned me about them. This is a reason among many why I conclude there is another spirit behind this movement. They all have common traits.
Why have you been mistreated like this? I've been a part of this church for 3 years now, and I've never been treated like this. I've always had a choice in anything I do.
I remember being a part in 2001 to 2006, especially when the infamous Henry Kriete letter came out. A lot of friends who genuinely love God, yet that doesn't keep them from being genuinely wrong on issues.
Are you sure, Rocelyn Samano? I’m not going to say that I know better than you somehow, but I do want you to really consider the situation you’re in. No one that’s in a cult believes they’re in a cult at first. Keep in mind that red flags are easy to overlook in the moment and don’t become obvious until later when there’s suddenly a mountain of them piled up. If the situation is as you say, then I wish you the best and the continuance of your happiness. If your situation is more like Tina’s, I wish you the best and hope that you can reach a point like Tina where your life is truly yours again.
That might change. It also depends on how strict your discipler is. I was in the campus ministry. My discipler would shake us awake at night and drag us out of bed at 2am to cook for the church service. Only the women were expected to cook for service and if you were too tired too, they would call you selfish. They also forced many people to break up with their boyfriends before baptism who did not want too.
When you start having your own mind and being a true Berean then you will soon see my dear sister. If you are cool with leadership and do anything they say you are in line you are safe. Start setting the truth then you are not one of them
I was a part of icoc in tallahassee, fl in the mid 90s when i was in middle school... my family left after a year ... def a cult. I was there for a year
Tina Marie J. Jeremiah 17:9 New International Reader's Version (NIRV) 9 “ A human heart is more dishonest than anything else. It can’t be healed. Who can understand it?” This is not a cult or a religious opinion, this is God’s mind. “Follow your heart” is not good advice, I understand that we can be dissapointed by a cult, shepherd, church, etc., but reading the Bible, God’s Word, let us learn what God think about a lot of things. If you have a friendship with Him, you should know that human heart is so emotional.
🚩🚩🚩
1:12 love bombing "give me your number"
1:52 over-eagerness "when are we going to study the bible!?"
2:30 pressure to get baptized "what if you die?"
3:30 money and new members published numbers
4:09 pressure to attend every Sunday "what if you die pt II"
5:12 over meeting. three times a week... c'mon
6:07 young people married
7:16 arranged dating & friendships
8:16 invasiveness: pullovers unsolicited advice - hangouts bringing god all the time - double dating
10:52 discipleship partnership forever
11:32 ask for advice about everything!
12:12 isolation from family and friends not disciples
12:45 scolding for not asking for advice
13:27 everyone talks the same - personalities erased
14:17 gut feeling
justathough 😂 love this!!
So true
I remember when my wife gave birth. Her and the baby weren't well. My Bible talk leader was more concerned about me being at Bible talk than with my wife and kid.
Oh wow what assholes...sorry but that pisses me off
Even though we are still there, they hate when I come correct. I catch them every time. I always say if you gonna kick me out for the truth everyone gotta go to. They need to get rid of the leadership. People like Roger Lamb who was part of Kip McKean regime just rebrand the narrative with the same agenda
We were told not to attend family weddings, anniversaries, and birthdays, if these were on ICOC church days. Crazy!
That’s disgusting
Oh hell nahhh
Leaders are paid....because no one is going to spend hours on end “reaching out” to people for free. I was an “intern” for about 5 months.
I went through many similar issues when I was a JW. You mentioned the identifying marks of a cult very well. Anyone who says it's not needs to watch your video. I heard another phrase that identify a cult I had to write down. It goes something like this. " The difference between a religion and a cult is what they do when you decide to leave".
SO glad you are speaking about this. They tried very hard to recruit me as a college student. Praise the Lord there was a speech at my college on identifying cults where this was listed as a confirmed cult for the exact reason you are saying---pressure to attend, pressure to tithe, love bombing, mandatory discipling, all the stuff you are talking about. I immediately quit returning their calls! Then I had one as a hairstylist and I had to quit going because she was trying to recruit me. The pressure to attend all activities, and every activity had a fee, I remember! "Let's go play flag football. You must bring $5."
Amy Pontius Im so happy your campus warned u guys against cults and icoc/icc being listed as one of them! Definitely do stay far away!
I'm currently going through the process of leaving and I have a lot of anxiety. No one knows I'm planning on leaving except one person that I trust. Prayers would be dearly appreciated. 😞I'm on winter break out of state and when I come back I plan on attending a different church.
jzmnhrrs You’ll be fine girl don’t let them guilt you into staying. A good church knows that you are free to attend anywhere you want. It won’t have some locked in membership. Good luck and if you ever need to talk hit me up on social media!
I was in your exact same boat. Praying, but I agree with Tina, if you feel locked in don't go. Some of the bigger churches are stuck in traditions, but I'm finding the new generation rethinking almost every point Tina made in the video, and choosing NOT to do them or put pressure on other to do them. Maybe you can be a part of the new wave, too. Feel free to reach out if you disagree or want to chat :)
Hi hun. Leave and don't look back. I will be praying for you.
jzmnhrrs be strong. I was a member in NYC during the late 80’s. I was terrified to leave. I met a member my first week in NYC. I was invited to a singles group event. I knew no one in the city. So it became an instant family and support group. When I left it was so hard, because I had become so involved so I knew no one outside of the church. It was like I had just gotten there all over again. You will struggle and be tempted to go back. But you can do it. Prayers to you.
God is love and he is unconditional. You are doing no wrong.
“Encouragement dates”....something that you will only hear in the ICOC.
Lmao! I know right lol
Andrew Duggan
Omg. I was actually chastised because i didnt want to go on an encouragment date..
Yes this is it... they keep asking me about the guy I'm dating and how he feels about me taking bible study and are we equally yoked and are where are we headed, and what are we doing together. It's too much. Like leave me alone.
Literally!
I completely understand. I was a member for a year, and It was very controlling. Mandatory bible talks, mid weeks, devotional Friday’s, and Sunday service. I have to work with their schedule, but they don’t realize I am a full time college. I have not back since last May, and mentality I am trying to recover from that experience. Right now my main focus is to graduate, and not let any distractions from the church stop me.
Jason VanEpps Awesome for u! Im so happy u left and realized what they were doing without allowing them to control and get in the way of ur schooling. A friend of mine was told she should drop out of college and she had a fulltime job and is a mom and a wife. I was told i should not have applied to school because i had a class ehich made me miss fridays bible talk meetings since i attended in the evenings. R they still trying to reach out to u now?
They were reaching out to me when I left. my family was helping me through the ordeal, and I was getting text from members asking where I was. I gave them answer, “I wanted to be with my family because I haven’t seen them in forever” they gave me that BS answer, “skipping church is risking your salvation” or something like that. And that pissed me off. But I do see them on campus “reaching out” and I try to avoid them as possible or they avoid me lol . Well in my friendly nature, if they do come up to me and I can talk to them, but I am not giving them a reason why I left because it’s not their business to know.
I have to say one thing is thank you for the videos. I am know That am not only that went through this ordeal. Thank you again 👍✌️
Your absolutely right, its not their business to know. I can relate, they told me the same whenever I wanted to visit my family. Good for u!!!
David South i am doing better. Thank you for asking. Right now focusing on school, that’s already stressful as it, and I don’t need a church to put more stress on me LOL.
Right like you're whole life has to stop for Church organization.
I remember a "brother" stepped on my hand intentionally. And at one point told my son to shut up(on a different occasion). I went off on him and they made me feel like I was wrong. He liked me and I feel like they down played it because they wanted to get he and I together. I was physically disgusted by him. He was almost 20 years older then me. I got my brother to join and they did everything to separate us. This man got in between me and my brother. They made him my real brother's disciplining partner. They tell you to bond with your family but that's because they want you to invite them so that they can be "saved" by the church. But then they try to separate you so that they can hatch their plans for your life and control you. My brother has since left...But our relationship is so.strained because of our interaction with people at the church. It's been almost three years. I'm growing spiritually at my new church but I have such a hard time trusting people. I can't believe I allowed myself into this place. I've always been strong they tried to break me but couldn't. I thank God that I struggled while at the ICC. Let's not talk about how they make you feel as a single mother at the ICC.
"Traumatized" is the best word to describe what happens..... It does take a long time to get over.
L. Beebe. A brother intentionally stepped on your hand? Literally?
When I left after 10 years for some major disgusting reasons, I had brought my sister and brother in law in. They convinced my sister not to talk to me. We had been really close. We are totally estranged now. They destroyed our family because my brother in law was successful and they wanted to keep that cash flow, I believe. They are very destructive in so many ways. My oldest tried to commit suicide from the fallout of leaving. Etc.
Hi there. I want to just commend you for speaking out. I was apart of the ICOC for 20 years. I was a part of a family that was very “powerful’. I left in 2009. It was a VERY hard exit, I’ll just say that. Thank you for sharing.
Wow 20. Talk about being integrated. Good for you on your journey. Hopefully you and others have been recovering well.
I was 10. And these word "Family" is my worst word today. Follow Jesus, that only important.
@@vjeran39 For sure we are to follow Jesus. But part of following Jesus is to have fellowship with other believers.
@@nelsoncheng4638 and I have. But I am not going in 'Church'
Girl, it’s been 22 years since I left. I was in 11 years and my hubby was in 22 years. We both often tell each other it’s the best decision we ever made for ourselves and our kids. Seeing that my kids didn’t end up on drugs or pregnant in high school (the constant warning from members about leaving) I realize the threats were a lie. We lost our entire social circle, but we gained great relationships with my family (non cult members) and getting new friends. So still best decision I ever made.
Hi Tina ive been a part of this church for over 30 yrs. The thing that drew me to the church was the very critcisms you voice here. The unbelievable thing is that when I searched the scriptures for myself this is exactly what the scriptures call us to be. Being a disciple does mean that God is the center of my life. It means living a life of surrender to Gods word and Gods way. I do believe that in living a surrendered life I am called to be humble and teachable, I am called to love my brothers and sisters, to be sacrificial in my giving to God and to my brothers and sisters in the church first and foremost then to everyone else, Im called to look out for my brothers and sisters and to see to it that we keep each other accountable and away from temptation and sin--kinda like spiritual buddies. I became a disciple when I was in medical school and I never missed a meeting of the church--there were many times when I didn't feel like going but I went not because people made me go--no one could make me do anything I didn't want to do--I did it because that's what I knew God expected of me from what I read in the scriptures. If I felt any pressure at all it was to obey the scriptures not any person.I also got married in the church and have been married now for over 28 yrs. I have faced many challenges in my marriage and raising my children but I am most grateful for discipleship relationships where I can freely share my struggles and get Godly advice to be a better wife, mother and person and to have a marriage that brings glory to God.Through discipleship I have learned humility( something that God loves) and am still learning humility and I have grown spiritually as my brothers and sisters sharpen me by helping me to not only see my true self but how to change to develop more Christlike characteristics. Ive also learned how to forgive--true forgiveness and reconciliation. Ive also learned that at the foot of the cross is level ground so no one is better than the other. Each of us has fallen short. That we all need grace--from God and from each other.the thing that is most valuable to me and to any true follower of Christ will be my relationship with God-why? because nothing else will last. Money,fame, education, status, children, yes even your hair will not last( im referring to what you said about not wanting to get your hair wet) when you love someone--and a true disciple is called to love God with everything they possess and everything they are-- those are things that fade in importance--the bible does teach that.majority of the things you call red flags are things that are pointed out in the scriptures. of course they will seem weird to those who don't know the scriptures or who haven't searched the scriptures. I was just like you before I gave my heart completely to serve God and put Him first in my life. I wanted to do my own thing, my own way and be my own person. You cant be that and also be a true Christian. A true Christian which according to the bible is the same as a disciple/ follower of Christ is a slave to righteousness; is an ambassador for Christ- 2Cor 5:20 ff--who literally begs other people to come to know Christ. is a soldier in the army of God--soldiers take care of each other and protect each other and strengthen and encourage one another--by spending time together on the same mission; called to live a life of self denial not one that is led by my feelings--There are many days I don't feel like going to work but I get up and deny myself and go bc there are many sick ones waiting to be healed--same with going to church and this for a much greater calling. I will not be able to practice medicine some day but my walk with God and my relationship with him will never end--its priceless and worth everything I have and am.Why all this because we take seriously our commitment to the only sovereign God. We pledge a good conscience before God at the time of baptism and through faith we a washed of sin and receive the gift of the indwelling Holy spirit. We are filled with inexplicable joy as we come to understand the abundant grace and forgiveness afforded to us because of Jesus being willing to deny himself even unto death upon the cross. We are excited and joyful( joy is not circumstantial and comes only from God). the world knows happiness which is dependent upon circumstances. So of course we will seem weird--they said the same things about Jesus-- so it is a compliment to us as disciples to be considered weird or different! I have a peace that is truly beyond my understanding and I seldom worry for anything because I know Im living and fighting everyday to live a live in surrender to Gods word. I have a purpose in my life--to do Gods will and so I strive daily to be imbued by His word his will and his way. Its so worth it being a true disciple.I don't know what is your career field but I can tell you that in medicine you better be humble, teachable, seek lots of advice from those who are teaching or training you, follow instructions to the letter and be ready to deny yourself and be sacrificial to become a doctor let alone a good one. To make it in the world you have to submit to its orders and rules and protocols. in a similar way to make it in Gods kingdom, to have a relationship with God and a lasting one, how much more should you submit to His will and His way. I can safely say no disciple has ever asked you to do anything that was against God's word. Please let me know if they did. I want to encourage you Tina to use this platform to call people to obey Gods word. I get the impression you feel you know better---then why not use this to teach the better--teach Gods word. If you read Acts chapter 5,:17-39 Gamaliel the prophet warned that God will fight His own battles; that in due time he will take care of all false prophets /people. I would encourage you therefore to beware that you don't find yourself fighting against God. Why not just preach or teach what you know to be the truth of the Gospel. I think your efforts will be more beneficial and you will be pleasing God if you are preaching according to his word--and I know that's what you desire to do otherwise you would not have sought after God.I know this is long but I hope you take the time to read it. I usually ignore these posts but i felt led to speak out today. I am soo grateful to have made the decision to become a disciple in the church of Christ. god bless and all the best
I was in the ICOC from 1988-2007, and all the red flags that Tina shows were true when I was there. I cannot speak to how each fellowship is because some still follow Mckeanism and others follow a hybrid of McKeanism and Reformation theology. The Denver Church of Christ ( where I attended ) is experimenting with various theologies but still teaches McKeanism in their conversion studies. It is not normal nor right to hold the fear of Hell above believers. It is not psychologically healthy to have relationships with zero emotional or spiritual boundaries which these churches still have( even if they no longer preach the one-over-one discipleship spiritual pyramid scheme.). I have been diagnosed with bipolar I disorder since 1992. I left for 2 years because I couldn't handle the church and be bipolar. I came back in 1994 because I was so ensconced into their system and I thought that I was going to hell as a "fall -away". I came back and was "restored" according to them, and I married in the church in 1995. I was fine until 2000 when I had to stop working due to bipolar depression. There was very little knowledge nor sympathy for me and my mental health. My older sister was also living with schizo-effective bipolar disorder and she was often told to forgo her medications and ended up in the hospital a lot before she left in 1987. I finally left after going through some PTSD therapy and I did fall-away from God and became an Agnostic for several years and my husband became an atheist when we left in 2007. In 2012 I began to go to my Mother's church. It is a Presbyterian church and there are, I believe, saved Christians there also. I believe that the Holy Spirit is like the wind and goes where Faith is. Yes, get baptized, but it is not the only way to experience salvation and Jesus. Being surrendered to Jesus and making him Lord does not mean surrendering your common sense and wisdom. If you see red flags like Tina and I saw, the pray and read your bible, and do some investigating online from former leaders and members. Read "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" and "When God's People Let You Down" by Jeff VanVonderen. See the ICIC in these books and Leave!
God is love and there is no right or wrong. That's is why God is non judgemental. The church judges each other too harshly. If one chooses to leave the icoc there should be no condemnation in Christ. If Christ is within us then we choose to abide in Christ. If one wishes to leave an icoc. They are looked down upon with shame,judgement almost condemnation and people are filled with guilt, remorse etc. These people who leave the church of Christ were given free will to choose to worship Jesus and God aka love from all of their being. We don't have to go to the icoc to be saved. We are saved by faith. By belief that we are loving,kind, respected just as Jesus said love each other as I have loved you. But icoc I see you say teach the truth. But that this channel is her truth. Religion is controlled but God gives us guidelines to love in every way possible and to follow Jesus example. He chose to forgive others and I don't see true forgiveness in icoc more judging and belittering then placing you in fear.
Don't be fooled. You are not following God at that church. The church is your god. "God" is just what they use to pull you in. Then, "God" is replaced with church activities FIVE times a week, "advice" from your discipler, obeying your "leaders," giving your money to the church (special contributions should be a crime), no life outside of the church, numbers, numbers and more numbers. Thank God they kicked me out.
I'm here to reach out to anyone that was in this cult. I was born into it and managed to get out when I was 17 ....after so much mental and emotional abuse I drove into a life of drugs and mental illness. I tried to commit suicide a few times but couldn't because I didn't want to go to hell. I'm 35 now, have a successful career and what seems like a successful life. But I need to just get into contact with someone who went through this as I'm trying to heal past traumas.
I was a part of the cult from 1999 until 2001. I was excommunicated because... just because. I was spiritually and emotionally screwed after that. It took 10 years for me to step into another church, but I find that I no longer trust organized religion. Now, it's just me and God in this journey.
I came very close to suicide after a 10 year stint and my oldest child at age 15 tried suicide from the fallout a couple of years out. I have truly never recovered. It destroyed my life, my family on many tiers. I understand. They throw you away like garbage. Lie about you, etc. It's so evil. Only after leaving you began to find out the evil underbelly of leadership and the things they cover. I was in shock and should have been. Hospitalized. I finally found a wonderful woman who specialized in abuse in churches.
OMG, you are telling the truth!!!!! And everything was so "encouraging". I got tired of hearing that word 🤨 I felt like a robot 🤖
The talking in code, phrases like:
How are you doing spiritually?
Did you get advice about that?
The extreme mindless overuse of the word AWESOME!!!
I actually found a list of all their catchphrases
Seth Kamara i would love a link to this list
It feels very competitive.
"Sam Laing is flat out awesome," I heard many, many times at the Triangle Church. Sam Laing is a snake. My ICOC experience wasn't the worst. There were many wonderful ppl at the church that saw the bs, but we ask has Stockholm syndrome. The leadership of atrocious. Their doctrine is against the Spirit. I would go back just to warn ppl that they are involved in a destructive cult that lies and deceives every time they open their mouths.
9 years me and my first wife were part of this cult. August of 1998 the minister shows up at our home unexpected. Gives us the "special contribution" check back and tells us not to come back. We were kicked out of a cult. I think I have seen it all now.
ICOC hurt me so much. I regret knowing any of those people.
They hurt me, too. However, there are some really great ppl that are members. They are victims, too.
dang man, sorry to hear church hurt u :/ I hope what u went through didnt steer u away from God, because he is good and perfect !
Mitch Harrison. I am sorry you were hurt. But maybe you can use your experience to help others. Perhaps you can make a TH-cam video!
They all but destroyed me. Very destructive.
The irony, for me, was that I grew up in the Roman Catholic Church. I stayed away from organized religion for decades because of the way the Catholic Church brainwashed me and made me believe I was not good enough for God. When ICOC manipulated me, I caught it right away. They couldn't do it because I learned from my experience from the Catholic Church. You will be the same. ICOC hurt you, but you are also much wiser now. Every experience strengthens.
I grew up as a pastors kid in this church. Left and felt freedom for the first time in my life
Amber-Lily Robbins ❤️❤️❤️
I know the signs...i've been a member for years too. Almost 16 years ago. It took some time to heal. But I guess the experience made my faith stronger.
Red flag: "Is highly encourage that you go to this retreat that cost $60 even though you are a college student."
Me:😑😑😑
Hmmmm true that. I almost forgot about the retreats..
I was also a part of the ICOC and what you are describing is extremely accurate. we share the same birthday, and they also wanted me to get baptized on my birthday but I pushed back. I eventually got baptized and attended that church for 10 years of my life, and almost messed up my life goals. I am still dealing with the trauma. Hope you are well.
I left my comments on your other video. I think that knowing your bible is crucial is really seeing quickly that the ICOC is against scripture.
I felt violated
Neal Stapel Oh damn smh
I'm so glad I found your channel. I was raised in a religious cult and although I left 3 years ago I still feel lost. I don't feel like I have an identity because all of my childhood I was a church girl. Thank you for sharing your story
Scientifically Sheila Awww I'm sorry you went through that. I'm glad you found the channel too. Be sure to stay tuned, I upload weekly videos. Also, i have a FB recovery group for former cult members and those who dealt with "church hurts spiritual abuse. Beautiful Souls spiritual recovery, come join it if u like for emotional support!😊
Yes, I do understand the tricking into Bible studies and "hanging out" turning into Bible studies. What gets me is that they start saying "my lead". When they start saying "I, me, us" it became a huge red flag because they are human flesh and I'm not following man. I'm following Jesus Christ. God leads me not people. I pray to God to confess my sins, I pray to God to lead me in the right direction, I lean to God when I have issues or i'm not feeling well. God, not you. God makes the final judgement on the last day and is the deciding factor on who goes to heaven not man. They did tell me that satan Is pushing me away too. I just rolled my eyes. I was thinking to myself "No that's GOD tell me to run!" The good that I got out of all of this was that I seen it within 4 weeks of attending . So I didn't get to deep in and I didn't get baptized, however what I did wrong was tell them how I felt. I told them that I felt horrible , tricked, disturbed, judged, and irritated. They just looked at me and then started throwing scriptures at me and then grabbed a chair for me to sit down. I backed away and I left within 15 mins. I wasn't about to have a bible battle with them. That's where I failed. What I should have done was not show up and not say anything ever again. Because my heart is so good I did what I thought was right. Sometimes what I think is right isn't the best choice. So I prayed to God and I said if this is the church for me then lead me back here. I haven't been back...
@Gabriela Castro exactly, they do cherry pick verses. It's called minipulation. It's all in the spirit though. If the spirit isn't right then you have to leave. There are certain fruits that you have to depict. There are bad fruits and good fruits and they weren't a good fruit. I also had no problem studying the word but it was the certain verses that they would use to study with you. I too studied on my own and asked God for revealence and decernment. I've been fine ever since I left. My daily readings and understanding have made a significant difference in my life. The spirit definitely leads you in the right direction.
@Gabriela Castro that's fine. They go for the younger generation. That's why they are on campus. I'm gonna tell you. Do Not get in a Bible battle with these people. Run!! Let God deal with it. I'm so serious... They will try to convince you otherwise and to think their way. You have to be strong!
I was in the LA ICOC from 1990 to 2012. From when I was 21 to 42 years old. I became an Atheist and I left in 2013. When I look back, I missed out alot of possible job advancement opportunities because of I had to have off Wednesdays and Fridays. And as a brother, we got chastised for not being quality men for the sister's. It was such a waste of my time.
Oh my gosh!! This is so accurate. The "Pull overs". I got pulled-over for having a bra strap showing. Or a tiny bit of cleavage. We would have midweeks where they told us exactly how to dress. We had to all read the same ministry approved books. "Help Meet" being the absolute WORST! It makes me laugh now, but all of what you say is spot on!! Oh... Also got rebuked for forgetting to bring "Women's Day" Tickets to service. And when leadership felt you really messed up, they would not stop the verbal rebuke until they made you cry and you had sufficiently shown repentance,
I remember they hounded me 24/7 when I told them I wasn’t baptized and would never quit talking to me about it, even though I told them I didn’t want to get baptized yet. They don’t understand boundaries at all
People who come out of the international Church of Christ are so traumatized that they can't just walk away from it. It messed with their heads so much and were so traumatized that they have to talk about it over and over again so they can heal.
Arthur Riechert Yup sadly so people do repeat it to themselves like many traumatic situations. That’s just a sign of trauma. But that’s why I have this channel to help those who can’t let go of what they’ve been through and to help them see that there is life outside of the cult. Only time I talk about it is here on this channel for those who need help recovering. It’s no longer a part of my life now but it is simply a chapter🤍
I understand totally what you are saying and somehow I agree but this was because of Kip Mckean's leadership. I saw that those times were so hardline and legaslistic. But this does not mean that the church is a cult. However, majority of the members are truly good-hearted and decided to become a christian because of their love for God. I was so angry too for a time coz I felt that because of the high standard and expectation I was considered a fall away when I fell short. But God is in control...God loves his church and his true worshippers who worship him in spirit and in truth, people who love him and call upon his name.
Now, Kip Mckean is no longer a leader or a part of the ICOC. At that time many christians struggled, divided, stayed and left. Those who remaim, remain faithful in the Lord. Now, no one is being forced to do anything they don't want to do. Though they encourage them to be devoted to God, to the Scriptures and to the fellowship.
There have been so many changes in discipling and no one os being forced to obey the advice nor do they give advice without one asking for it
I am sorry for what you have gone through...I have gone through it myself. But God is merciful to all and God will save his true people from shepherds that are not truly so. He loves us...all of us.
One thing I would really like to assure you..most of the members of this church truly love God and based on my experiences people in this church do not intentionally harm people...I would still trust them coz I know they want me to stay faithful to God and when it comes to friendship some has the best of friendships here compare to myselh coz I am not so good at it....but those friendship are really blessed by God.
You said it, was a member for 8yrs left the church in 2008, the truth is until now my spirit is with them. I stand here to say boldly that ICOC is not a cult. I will say that over and over again. I look forward joining the church again God helping me.
They are a very manipulative and controlling cult. You know in your heart that they are not of God. I'm not talking about the rank and file members. I'm talking about the leadership, the doctrine, and their entire system. 100% cult.
I knew someone who joined the ICOC in college. We knew each other from InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. After she joined the ICOC, we in InterVarsity never hung out with her again. That was a red flag to me, because it seemed like the ICOC was either taking up all her time or convincing her the InterVarsity was bad. I'm inclined to think the latter, because if it was taking up her time outside of class, surely she could've had time to come to lunch or church with us, but no. Also my college did not allow the ICOC to establish a campus group, so if they met on campus it was against the rules, unless it was in someone's dorm room. Those two factors were major red flags to me, so thankfully when I was later approached by them on a different campus I did not go to their studies or church! I'm sorry that you were wrapped up in this!
Its heartfelt feeling listening to you Tina Marie I'm so sorry you had a bad experience.
Girl yes cliques, having to be at Church all the time like it's crazy, and if you truly love God you'll be totally concentrated on serving God while single ( I have many problems with that) , family is second and categories of people .
Girl had us going EVERY Sunday, Tuesday/Wednesday, Friday, and Saturdays a lot too. It was horrible. I didn’t have a life outside of it. So when I left I was completely lost
Reminds me of the reg flags i should have noticed when I got recruited , like 1. people I hardly knew asking for my phone number. , ( done with a sense of entitlement ) , 2. wanting to be with me all the time like nearly every day , 3 . no respect for peoples boundaries ( when you say your not free tomorrow they still insist on meeting tomorrow etc ) or if you say you need to go now for an appointment etc its not respected . 4 . invasiveness :- I found it annoying how when your single they think they have a right to ask who are you romantically interested in in the church and they don't keep your info secret . 5. Self righteousness : ( and elitism ) even on 1st day I could tell they would put down my previous church .
Actually all churches a mind-controlling Institutions. I came from a Catholic upbringing, which I left after seeing what Priest do with people's offering. I met a Coc got baptised 1st 3 months or so are normally fine. Then doctrine comes where you are forced to separate yourself from all your loved ones because the bible says do not yoke with non-believers. People are forced to go back to the oldest memory they had and confess sin (opening up old wounds) and playing on their emotions. When you in if you think they care. Students were sometimes told not to go home for summer break because they were not strong enough to convert their families. I remember a single mom who was really struggling with 2 kids and they would guilt-trip her into walking long miles to church. Before she got baptised there was always a sister picking her up. Now she was told she must seek first the Kingdom and she will be blessed. My dad was out of work and I had to help my mom with my brother financial which meant I had to reduce my offering. The told me that was a sin because I had to seek first,,,,,,,I believe charity begins at home so I left. Even their bible says if your brother is hungry and you say I pray for you and not meet his material needs when you that makes you a hypocrite. Then went to UPI in Germany, same confusion different county. Now I'm done.
This is so accurate! I am going "undercover" right now in a European section of the ICOC.
I was approached a month ago by a random guy at the university. Who invited me to a bible study circle. He was very direct and handed my phone to add me like directly. I am a religious person so I thought it would be a fun idea. So I've been going to this bible circle. This guy also wanted to meet for "a coffee" on several occasions, and he always pulled up a bible during all these "sessions" and started reading.
I didn't mind though since I like to discuss and study the bible. But I've noticed the warning signs so I started googling about what church he was a member of and it was part of the ICOC. So through reddit I actually found their "conversion" script, and I recognized all the bible verses and the interpretations that they made.
Luckily I am brought up in a christian home (my father is a priest etc), have good knowledge about the bible, have a quite big social life and also strong willed so I won't be fooled by them.
There is one guy though who only after 3 weeks let himself be baptized in there church and now he seems to be deep in to it. Pretty crazy.
Still I am a bit bummed out since I wanted to have some christian friends too (My country is very secularised). But it is what it is, ICOC are not in my opinion true christians anyways.
I might go to some more of their activities just for the lulz, but I am always on my watch.
Anyways good channel keep it coming and I hope you will be able to restore your faith and not let it be ruined by a group of radical heretics.
God bless you!
Use to attend for about 3 year and loved it. But I did not experience what you did. I appreciated the genuine love and fellowship.
I’m so happy u didn’t luv! 💕
Advice was law.
I still remember when they tried pressuring me to "study the Bible".
Hi Tina! I have had many similar experiences and I think you'll be happy to hear that I am currently changing that within the church. At least beginning with mine, I agree with what you're saying about it all being too much and a bit weird to say the least. So I'm personally making changes within my church and hope to bring that to all of ICOC. I hope all is well with you!! And good job trying to create awareness 👍🏽🤗
Joush Masse Good for you! I commend and respect what you’re doing. With good genuine intentions, you’ll do well😊. 🖤
@@TinaMarieJ thank you so much!!! 🤗
Hi Tina. I am sorry for your experiences. Unfortunately to some extent it can be seen as "cultish" but then the same was said about our beloved Jesus. I believe it is a church of good people with good intentions with a flawed application of scripture. Unfortunately all your "red flags" are in contradiction with scripture....perhaps if you knew the Word of God better or had been more mature in your faith...this happens over time and suffering...you would know that....you needed to build your OWN convictions based on your own study of the scripture. You did not reference a single Bible verse and that is all that matters to us fanatical Christians 😁What you are doing now...denouncing this group is not right..be careful.. If they are wrong God will expose it and let them reap what they are sowing.. But if your perceptions are wrong based on spiritual immaturity your are doing harm...to your own..followers/cult.
I throw away every reading material they gave me..lol im totally disgusted with them..thank God my faith didnt crumble..
I'm so glad yours didn't. I'm literally now just picking the pieces of my faith up off the floor
I threw away all the material, my bibles, tons of notes after leaving a 10 year hell. I can never get back what I lost in that hell hole.
I love this video. I grew up in the ICOC and got baptized at 17. Stayed so long to please my parents. Finally left the ICOC for GOOD about 4 years ago. I am so happy now. My parents finally realized how controlling they were and left too!!!
Justine Nicole good for you!!!👏🏽💕☺️
🤨Most churches won’t even notice that your missing, let alone acknowledge your presence.
I would prefer a church that knows about each member, and actually wants to build relationships with us over a church that is cold and lacks love/relationships.
Also, at most church’s people throw stacks of money at the pastors, but those churches won’t even tell you what they’re spending the money on. I’m grateful for how upfront we are with the finances.
Keyanna Kold I’ve attended churches that knew the members without feeling the need to control their members decisions and lives. They exist thankfully. I’m glad you are enjoying your membership in your church, that’s great 👍🏽 .thanks for watching. 💞
Oh, please, when the church imploded back in the early 2000s they came clean about lying about what they did with the Special contribution, etc. Ppl left in droves. Sorry you are still under this illusion and buying that bullshit.
Yes, I will attest that students were really, really, busy, because they were the source of most future evangelists and women's leaders. They basically arrange marriages and strictly control who dates whom. (for the most part, we were single so we got married regardless of the fact that some people didn't want us to get married). We were not going to have children and this just boggled the minds of the married women with children. They thought it was selfish of us not to have kids within the first five years of our marriage. There were no boundaries, you were expected to confess your sins to your discipler and your sins were gossipped about to leaders. All the leaders knew about my sexual abuse and masturbation. (like a few times a year, not bad in my opinion). I was very "fruitful" in college, but I was suffering from an undiagnosed bipolar disorder, so I was "needy" or "emotionally and spiritually unstable) before my diagnoses in 1992. Mandatory "fun" times; volleyball, basketball leagues, softball leagues, etc. Mandatory "meetings of the Body of Christ" groom honoring and wedding showers (even if you didn't know the people personally) and paying for gifts for those events. Paying for a "gift" for the visiting Evangelists/ Women's leaders. Women's Day was totally mandatory and ask your women relatives. I could go on and on. Just a lot of controlling and they had to know everything, your sins, your thoughts, no emotional boundaries, if you don't do a list of things every day, your salvation is at stake. You must convert, convert, convert. NO exceptions to the RULE.
Thanks for sharing. 10 years, my life, everything you say is true. Bye from Croatia.
How long ago did you leave? As a kid I grew up in this church. I went through the studies 3 times. Would get to light and dark and tell them no. They are still trying to get me to go. It’s been 20+ years since that traumatic upbringing.
This year makes 3 years since I've left. Definitely don't force yourself to do anything that you dont want to do
The 4 times i went to a cocc they attacked me! My salvation is secure in Christ, they wouldn't accept that. The last attack of a false accusation on me was enough!
I got wrapped up in ICOC in my early college years. I never felt safe and was told that I was “not pure” but felt a weird pressure to keep going back. Everyone had their roommates picked out for them, they tried to pick friends for me, and I saw multiple arranged marriages. I’m glad I left!!
I’m a kingdom kid from the icc and was in the icoc before the split. Thank you for making this
I went to the Sydney ICOC.
It was extremely abusive.
I read a book that helped called, cults inside out by Rick Allen Ross.
Please tell other people about this book that were from that horrible church.
Please keep telling others about this crazy horrible church as well.
Cults, even listening to experiences in them, make me physically uncomfortable like I can't breathe. Anyone else?
I remember they asked my mom “ who do you love the most?” ...she said “my daughter” and the icoc members said God needs to be #1 or you will go to hell.
I was a member for 22 years and left in 2003. It takes time to recover the $$ issue still makes me angry
Wow this is real talk. Thanks for sharing. I have had this experience
@ 14:50
Icoc member :"Satan sez This"
ME: ???
Icoc member: " Satan sez That..."
ME:???
Icoc member: "Satan Also sez..."
ME: You & Satan talk a Lot
Tina, how long ago did you leave? I have not heard of the church being like this in over 15 years. The leadership has completely changed. We are supposedly so chilled out now that Kip felt the need to start a new group ICC since the old version wasn't radical enough
Rob Young I left three years ago and that is the myth, That they have changed and chilled out but unfortunately not all of them have changed and they’ve only chilled out with some things a tad bit but it’s still bad enough to be a cult and manipulative and very damaging.
"Special Contributions" were outrageous. 77x7 what you earn.
So glad to have decided to search up this “church” that my friend is unfortunately in. She is actually on the ICC side, but the red flags are looking pretty much the same. Someone who does “one-on-one meetings” over Zoom currently gave me her number last week at a group Bible study, and today I have blocked it after my research. I have never really liked many churches, but I was actually going to give this a chance and I’m so glad I didn’t. I’m worried for my friend now, but I’ll keep trying to slowly drop some sense onto her, she’s so sweet, almost too sweet 😣 I’m thinking I can expect for her to eventually not want to be friends anymore, which is sad because I love her, but I’ll be praying. Thank you so much for this information, God Bless! ❣️
You're welcome hun!
I was apart of the church in the 90s when it was hard body, tithing was monitored, no datong outside church, mandatory discipling, i heard they have since relaxed those rules. Your complaints are spot on. Its been almost 20 yre since i left, and i dont regret it one bit, it served me well in my early 20s, like spiritual boot camp.
Yeah I heard it was relaxed now too compared to the 90's but their rules still seem pretty much set in place. I think that only some churches are chill now but most like the one I attended are still pretty demanding. I'm glad u left that alone too
videobrownsville Its the same as a formal member..
I got “pulled over” soooo many times in the teen ministry! HAHAHA I was such a rule breaker!
Lmao!!!
girl tina marie Im right there with you..I missed one sunday...they went haywire.....my phone got overloaded with text..dang girl you and me have thesame disgusting experience with this church.It just made me more disgusted my enthusiasm rapidly fade away...then those ladies who were at my bible study started to act awkwardly at first to the point of they never spoke with me..I havent met a very judgemental group of cult crazies.
Oh my God that's nuts smh.
Did you attend the Triangle Church?
Currently taking bible study to be baptized here. Yesterday's bible study was them overly pressuring me about the guy I'm dating... my first red flag. so here I am doing research. I'm not going through with it... thanks for making your videos...
I have been studying the Bible with them and don’t know what to think. I see all these things and they really got me questioning my salvation with the whole baptism thing. Other than that I love them and all and feel like they helped me grow closer to God.
human bean that’s how it starts- they make u question things like your salvation, your life, your goals, yourself. That’s how it starts. Be careful and make your own decisions if you want to be A member. Best of luck to u 💕
Another weird thing I noticed early on, it seemed that only leaders were allowed to date and marry.
This needs more views because *holy* (huehue) *shit* are these people crazy. They got my parental unit hooked in and thus me, as I was their child. Barely saw family again after that as they pretty much sucked away all my parental unit's free time. Along with that good 'ol ICOC brand brainwashing.
Something just never sat right with me and as I grew up in the 'church', I hardly attended mass--just goofed around in 'Kingdom Kids'
ugh--such a lame thing to call your sunday school..
Yes I hear you!! LOL!!!! Thank you 💕
I was Jehova's Witness we went house to house, 2 times meeting plus saturday preaching ir someone went a lot all the time omg and now i can see more reliligon like this. I lost all my friends we cant talk at all if i have family in they wont talk with me also anymore.... at my work a lady is from Church of Christ she gave me a bible thats why im lookimg your video.... 😅 thanks for this
Outstanding videos. So helpful and a wonderful resource for those who have or need an exit from this cult. Very articulate and heart felt. Thanks muchly
laura white Thank you so much!💕☺️
There was an investigation with 20/20 from around 1993. I recall one ex-member said that some people in her particular group were starved (calling it fasting) and kept im the basement
m.th-cam.com/video/UpWVitng5ro/w-d-xo.html
Go to 19:14
Yeah I saw that video. It helped me leave. SMH terrible.
I have a lot of people from this church, please I am trying to find out what is the background of the original ones like kipp mckean to see where the believe originated from
Im sorry I have no idea where he got his beliefs from. They usually say that they are just simply following the doctrine as it say- taking it literally and mainly only focus on the new testament. But you can try googling it and finding that information
Hi Yanira. Their roots are John Locke➡Thomas and Alexander Campbell➡Chuck Lucas➡Kip McKean.
lmao we have the same birthday, anyways tell me why my disciple, wanted me to go running with him and i refused, then the next bible study he mentioned me not going running and he practically said i was sinning not for going running with him, and he said "next time i tell you to go running you go!" .Us Libras are intuitive we know when somethings off.
twoblunt chuck lol wow insane! Smh
@@TinaMarieJ right! i stopped taking him serious after that, thank god for the internet.
That "pullover" was flashback central. Too real.
Lol
This is invaluable information!!!
Thank you!
Wow, am I glad I found this church during a global pandemic because it kept them at arm's length. I actually sought out the Bible study, which I did every morning. There were red flags and after about 6 weeks of online study (and one socially distant in-person meeting), I confronted some contradictions in their message over a Zoom call. To be fair, I'm 50 years old and the chapter in my city is run by people half my age. I can understand why they target younger people. They didn't have a lot of credibility with me because none of them had enough life experience. I was like - sure, you were living life a certain way and then you found this church - but that was a 5 year period. Try being "a certain way" for 30 years and changing. Life's not that simple. One of the biggest red flags was them preaching that wisdom didn't have to come from experience, it could come from just plain OBEDIENCE to the gospel (small print - the gospel interpreted by them).
Oh wow! Thank u for sharing and good for you for pointing out the necessary! ☺️
Good morning 🌞 Ms Tina my name is Mark Anderson and I used to be a member of the church of Christ years ago.about 93,94 and I also left for just about those same reasons I see their still up to there same old strategy have a great day and stay safe.
Mark Anderson hey, yes they are still operating the same unfortunately and sadly. Thanks for watching and commenting 💕
This whole video just screams run away. Not ICOC but my religion is not one to pressure. Not going to say which because it doesn't matter but I am a Christian. I feel sad if I don't spend time with God. Never felt like church was 'necessity' but I do feel WAY better when I go.
Should I be worried that my boyfriends church buddies are asking questions about me? He said he would convert to my faith if they try to ostracize him for dating a non ICOC female.
Love the videos! Blessings man!
Thank u!!❤
I dated (eventually married) someone who was in the church and since I grew up baptist and was not yet baptized in the ICOC, when they found out we were together they said either break up or stop coming to the church. People in the ICOC are only allowed to date other members and only if they’ve gotten approval. All that just to say, they do take it really seriously and cut people off for it.
I’m observing a church right now that doesn’t break couples up even if one hasnt been baptized in their church but instead equips them to have a strong relationship. There are healthier ways of doing things outside of ICOC system which tricks many into believing only in their way.
Homegirl. .. I have experienced all that. Especially a triple date that I didn't even know was a date.lol . I was invited by a sister and these questions made their way around the table. I played along and the question asked how I felt about homeschool. I just wanted to eat and conversate. I was thrown off.. And the whole separation and groups. I fell out of a lot of categories. They didn't know what to do with me. I'm too free to be labeled. . But I am now in a church of Christ without mentors and it's helping me to grow my own relationship with. . God which is essentially harder when there is no one looking over your shoulder but so rewarding once you you start developing the strength and persevere , you can become the source of encouragement for the real ones. . So I appreciate you, just hope it doesn't stop you from an authentic relationship with God
Ahahahah! You're so funny! Well I'm definitely happy to hear that your are pursuing a relationship with god with a church that makes you feel comfortable and free to express your Christianity. I have a relationship with God, just not in the way a Christian would approve, lol I'm not subscribed to Christianity or any religion anymore
You're right about everything that you mentioned in your video.
During my time 1993-1997, it felt like I had reenlisted in the military for a second time. The 'officers' were Bible Talk leaders and above who could be obnoxious to the point of brutal, arrogant, invasive, and demeaning. .And, there was way too much emphasis on "being fruitful." Look, if you were extroverted and results-oriented (the perfect bean counter with social skills) you were going to have a future as a high status disciple. If you marched by a different drummer, you were going to "struggle." Honestly, my best "struggle" was getting the hell out and never looking back! :-P But, to do that, you have to have a very clear conscience (harder for some), and then the resolve to make the greatest prison break of your life. Bottom line, you can't tell ANYBODY and when you move out, obviously don't give them any contact information as to your new non-disciple residence. I see the ICOC still sucks from what you're telling us. No surprise. Even though Sir Admiral Kip walked the plank years ago, the apple hasn't fallen far from the tree.
The leaders are 'Wolves in sheeps clothing'. They bear bad fruit (not good). They don't even have the Holy Spirit nor are they Christlike in any way. They are the opposite of what love is meant to be according to 1 Cor 13
The founder Kip McKean had a family military background and used tactics to build the church foundation. Looking up church history and seeing how certain practices started gives insight into what is really man made versus biblical.
Thank you so much for this!!
Monica Albara 😊 ur welcome luv❤❤❤
Good going girl.
The Pullover was all too real. Almost like something out of Seinfeld, but even worse.
You're beautiful you're amazing your one of a kind keep smiling
Aaron Baker awww thank u, ur very sweet
True words my friend
Man I swear this is true for MOST if not ALL denominations!!!! #StraightSad
Am so much hurt by ICOC, that I curse the day I knew them.
It takes time to heal Ruthie. For now,the sweet taste of freedom (including being home Sunday, as well as Tue night, Wed night, Fri night, Thur night, Sat mornings) - is wonderful. They are wolves in sheeps' clothing and don't even know God. (Those who know God, know love, those who don't know God, - don't show love). This church - shows no love. The bible says if we don't love, our beliefs are worthless.
I left in 2002 and still haven’t healed. I believe in Goad and that he created the world, but that is about it. I doubt almost everything...Christianity and other religions. I have taken a look in the history of religion, but not sure I came to many conclusions other than most are following one man or another. Good luck in your journey. Watching and reading other people’s experience help me not feel crazy.
Hi Ms Tina, does this church/cult run the World Bible Study courses?
No i don't believe so
My family highly coc preachers. We went all the time. I broke away, yeah... still judged for.
Well good for u for breaking away 👏🏽💛
LOL!!!! This woman speaks the truth.
Allah Forever 😌💕 thank you
Bless this channel.
Yep if they treat you like a 7 year old and youre 27 - thats weird .
I didn't tell everyone everything.
Clifford Padilla Good! They never need to know everything.
They start to know everything they used that in their secretive sin list. They make you a pariah
I absolutely hatedddddd unsolicited advice. And many times, it wasn't even good advice! But, "we have been given the mind of Christ", they'd say. They hated when I countered with the fact that not everyone is spiritually mature, and that they needed to watch their ego in thinking they knew everything they were talking about. The passive aggressiveness that would ensue for being assertive was downright spiritually abusive
Hi Tina Marie. I'm just wondering why you were with the ICoC seven years before you left it. Is this because the effort ICoC was making to make you fearful of leaving?
Nelson Cheng Hey, yeah I had a lot of fear and guilt placed on me from the members and the doctrine they teach which is something most people who stay knowing they should leave go through. That’s why I made this channel for those who have that same fear I felt to leave, helping others listen to that intuition and walk away because it only gets worse longer you stay.
@@TinaMarieJ As I have told you before, I went to a Bible Study with the CoC here in Toronto. That one meeting made me so scared that I decided not to meet up with the minister as I had originally planned. So, I can just imagine how fearful and troubled you must have felt. And I'm thankful you got out. Others may not be as fortunate. Recently, a Christian friend, who used to be a teacher in a school, told me how a former student, who was attending a CoC, ended up committing suicide. This student approached my Christian friend about salvation. My friend asked the student to approach the CoC she was attending about what they believed. And according my friend, the student later ended up taking her own life, due to the stress she was going through with the CoC.
Is that thumbnail a sign too lol? I notice they make That face when they are really trying to convince me. That was like the very first thing I noticed apart from God bringing up a dream He gave me that warned me about them. This is a reason among many why I conclude there is another spirit behind this movement. They all have common traits.
May I ask a question?
Why have you been mistreated like this? I've been a part of this church for 3 years now, and I've never been treated like this. I've always had a choice in anything I do.
Rocelyn Samano ur in a good one then. Unfortunately many of them are still very legalistic and controlling in their ways
I remember being a part in 2001 to 2006, especially when the infamous Henry Kriete letter came out. A lot of friends who genuinely love God, yet that doesn't keep them from being genuinely wrong on issues.
Are you sure, Rocelyn Samano? I’m not going to say that I know better than you somehow, but I do want you to really consider the situation you’re in. No one that’s in a cult believes they’re in a cult at first. Keep in mind that red flags are easy to overlook in the moment and don’t become obvious until later when there’s suddenly a mountain of them piled up. If the situation is as you say, then I wish you the best and the continuance of your happiness. If your situation is more like Tina’s, I wish you the best and hope that you can reach a point like Tina where your life is truly yours again.
That might change. It also depends on how strict your discipler is. I was in the campus ministry. My discipler would shake us awake at night and drag us out of bed at 2am to cook for the church service. Only the women were expected to cook for service and if you were too tired too, they would call you selfish. They also forced many people to break up with their boyfriends before baptism who did not want too.
When you start having your own mind and being a true Berean then you will soon see my dear sister. If you are cool with leadership and do anything they say you are in line you are safe. Start setting the truth then you are not one of them
That is a good point about age and group
Wow! That was really extreme
Thank you, all this is very real still
Amanda P. You’re very welcome 💖
I was a part of icoc in tallahassee, fl in the mid 90s when i was in middle school... my family left after a year ... def a cult. I was there for a year
Follow your heart? Follow your God? What does it mean?
Carmen Gómez what does what mean?
Tina Marie J.
Jeremiah 17:9 New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
9 “ A human heart is more dishonest than anything else.
It can’t be healed.
Who can understand it?”
This is not a cult or a religious opinion, this is God’s mind. “Follow your heart” is not good advice, I understand that we can be dissapointed by a cult, shepherd, church, etc., but reading the Bible, God’s Word, let us learn what God think about a lot of things. If you have a friendship with Him, you should know that human heart is so emotional.
What about the G12 and the rest of Shepherding movement? Can you make a video about that?
Kapitang Tinola Never heard of that. Elaborate on it a bit please
@@TinaMarieJ I'll email you about it