The Simple Truth - What Happened With Nolan and Roll20
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ม.ค. 2025
- I did not want to make this video. I am not a channel interested in drama. Due to recent events and certain accusations being made, I felt that making this video was necessary to all parties involved. This is the truth of what happened from a first hand experience and it can be substantiated by Jim Davis of Web DM, who was also witness to the events of this subject.
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Remember when racism and sexism in RPGs was just the Dwarf saying "all Elves look like women"?
Good times, eh?
ThE eLvEz ArE gEy
@me Notme mm, that's deep
me Notme that’s racist
My human characters were like that too. One game I had a Justin Beiber elf character player I was DMing. Cannot make this stuff up. People kept mistaking him for a female elf. He had a strength of 8 and was not very tall, just like the real Beiber. I played it so that even when the males were told it was a he they would be insulted and insist on seeing some pee pee because A simple no would have been okay, but "lying" like that...etc 😆 lol didn't stop him from playing elves, but all his future characters he insisted had facial hair. Then it was only the dwarves who still "mistook" him as a her.
It was all fun and games when the dwarf was calling the elves knife-eared, pole-proportioned dendrophiles... now everything has to get political and it sucks the fun right out of everything
As the black stepfather of two great white sons, I truly appreciate your video. My youngest had suggested Roll20 just the other day. Maybe we'll look into Fantasy Grounds....... Racism is Racism - Period. Again, thanks for the video.
I love you identified yourself as a stepfather then said "sons" not stepsons.
This is not sarcasm. I tend to worry about that, more IRL than in text form because my voice tone, but I wanted to be clear. It's an odd little thing that means a ton to the sons/daughters.
@Nimbar Zentivos Exactly! Discrimination against someone for the color of his or her skin is racism, no matter how you slice it, and it should NEVER be tolerated, no matter the circumstances. Same with sexism, homophobia, or any other form of bigotry.
Oh My Days, you have two sharks for sons?!!
Sorry, I saw the opportunity and had to take it.
Racism is bad, I agree.
Yeah but it wasn't really racism, as much as them saying they already have plenty of white dudes they sponsor and plenty of white dude customers, including already sponsoring some of you. It just isn't in the marketing budget to pay more sponsors that don't increase our demo. These guys are just throwing a tantrum about it. Happens all the time in marketing.
No matter how you spin it, not doing business with someone due to the colour of their skin is racism. Arguably a textbook example.
What disturbs me about Nolan here, along with him saying he didn't want "5 white guys", is that he bragged so heartily about him supporting a Black woman; as if he was treating her like some object or shield to make him look good. This is a big and gross no-no among communities that advocate diversity and inclusion. Makes me feel Nolan mainly rejected them to cover his ego...
Exactly! It's seems he doesn't actually care and just wants to use diversity to better himself
It's simply the soft bigotry of low expectations.
Came here to say exactly this. Creepy AF on Nolan's part.
Gotta catch em all
This is a great point, if there was a point when Nolan was being racist I think it was then. Because he was treating a black woman like badge of honour.
Skip to 5:55 for the actual beginning of the video. Before that, he just apologizes a lot and makes disclaimers for legal reasons
Kahriq Salil thanks man
Man this guy just takes forever to get to the point, and he keeps getting stuck repeating the same things over & over. Whew!
Kinda weird he was willing to let bigots go free because he wouldn’t gain anything for it . He’s kinda Weasley
I feel the disclaimers were needed instead of skipping them.
I miss the days when news outlets cut to the chase.
Moral of the story:
It's OK to say "No". It's not OK to follow it up with a racist and sexist remark.
That is all that we ask.
Just cuz it’s not said, doesn’t mean it’s ok
Hellequin Maskharat I humbly disagree. I wholeheartedly believe intent is extremely important for the perception of what I see. If roll 20 staff acts nasty towards colored individuals and women, and we only see them partner with white men, then we would most definitely suspect them to be racist even though they didn’t outright say it. The same goes when the table is flipped.
If you’re in a relationship and don’t want to be in one anymore, not having a reason is valid - I agree. However, that is VASTLY different from “I cheated and I’m not gonna tell you because I want to go with the person I cheated on you with.” The intent here is VITAL. Sure you may not want to HURT someone, but they have every right to know, and you SHOULD repent if you do something either party in the relationship feels is wrong to do. Not having a reason is still a reason!!
The reason why most friendships and relationships are ruined, and even the reason false accusations or finger pointing at sexists and racists occurs is due to a lack of thought on the INTENT of what people say. Therefore I will say even though I agree with you that no reason is a valid reason. I completely deny the notion that anyone should ever be okay with that train of thought not given.
At least I’m basing this off of what I believe you’re saying because I don’t think you outright deny my POV, but are saying what is actually said is more important, and I disagree with that in particular.
At least he was sincere and demonstrated that his opinion sucks.
lmao sexism and racism only exist in structural contexts.
Nolan T sounds like an asshole but that's not sexism or racism at all, it's just a company wanting to look good. What *was* racism was he bragging about the black woman he worked with like he fucking owned or something.
using black people as tokens for "look how cool I'm am"
@@olivesantos1840 wow. You sound like a massive racist excusing racism when it's against a group you hate. Be better, shitlord.
they literally could have said "we're not interested in this arrangement" and been done. that would have been easier.
But just as discriminatory. Just with less information.
@@JPFairchild thing is no one would have known it was discrimination. A company is perfectly allowed to decline any deal someone makes them. The issue is that it was verbal and clear discrimination.
@@sashashadowhive6128 exactly. They can choose whomever they wish to sponsor.
They can deny someone for basically any reason. What they CAN'T do is cite race/gender as the reason, which is why most companies just default to not specifying a reason
That would be the definition of systemic racism.
Like, if he had just said "Sorry we aren't interested" it wouldn't have even been an issue.
Exactly. Even if they weren't interested because of racial diversity ideas, this thing would not have blown up if they hadn't told them so.
It's all about Virtue Signalling - little to do with real diversity or equality.
Dude. You made a pitch. You were rejected, because 5 white nerds playing d&d wasn't interesting to them. You need to get over yourself.
John Fulmer You're only partially right. As a private company Roll20 can do business with whomever they want on the basis of whatever criteria they see fit. But as customers, we should be informed about those policies upfront and we have the right to choose whether we want to consume the product they offer based on what they stand for. If you're ok with Roll20 excluding white men from their partnerships, that's fine. But don't lambaste someone for having an opinion that this is not ok and that they no longer wish to consume their product. It's their right as a customer.
My biggest gripe with this is that we didn't hear about this earlier. Keeping your potential customers informed of your policy of not working with whatever demographic you don't like should be the standard. I, as a customer, would prefer to know upfront of who's racist/sexist so I could make a more informed decision of whether I want to consume their product or not. All I'm asking for is more transparency, which is good for everyone: the customers could make a more informed decision that way, and Roll20 wouldn't have to deal with as many pesky white males using their site. Win-win.
@@B3RyL this wasnt 'do business with'. This was 'we want a sponsorship'. 'we want money and advertising'. And it sounds like a bunch of sour grapes, dog piling on the recent (pretty crappy) reddit issue. This is someone with an ax, and he's chosen to grind it now. I've unsubscribed here. I've got better things to do than take d&d tips from an (apparent) self privileged babyman.
Holding up a woman that you're working with like "Look at how open-minded I am!" Is really fucked up.
Don't feel bad about talking about a bad situation. You are one of the genuinely nicest guys I have seen on youtube.
Being an roll20 subscriber since 2013 and a pro sub the last years i made the switch to fantasy grounds a few days ago. No regrets
im worried my friends would all have to pay as wel and right now were all broke fucks entering college.
Going to give Fantasy Grounds a try. Just signed up for Roll20 but another white guy isnt apparently needed.
@Conny Deshagen. That is no good. Simply running to a new space all the time has proven not to work. You guys have to make a stand for a change. If you don't, it'll just keep happening.
Hitting a company where it hurts is the best we as consumers can do, and has been a viable strategy of protesters to peacefully protest as such for the past 100 years. You're honestly going to say this does not work when in the past people have practically moved mountains? They're going to continue their fuckin behavior and they're allowed to continue doing that, however, i am also going to not support them in any way anymore if i can help it.
They will end up like Marvel, unprofitable but continuing to make their mistakes and hate their customers to the point people just feel they're going bankrupt. We already have plenty of examples of #getwokegobroke working exactly as planned
@elgatochurro. I'm sick of the excuses made to do nothing. Marvel isn't coming back. Star Wars is destroyed. Simply taking your ball and going home is a failed strategy.
Don't feel bad about this video. Sometimes folks just need to be called out. If you were treated ill, chances are someone else was too... and they don't have the means to get the message out to the rest of the community. So, I'm glad you put this out there. For me personally, I've only used roll20 a handful of times. I prefer, and would much rather play, Theater of the Mind. :)
Hey Wally, get busy on another great puzzle video.....😉
@@boguerogue lol! You caught me! :) working on it now... new Halloween puzzle video next week! :)
Thanks, using the beholder eyes in my game this weekend!
@@boguerogue awww yeah! That is so cool! Lemme know how it goes. :)
Personally I prefer to DM using Fantasy Grounds instead of Roll20 or TotM (Theatre of the Mind). But yeah, I'd even say that TotM is alot better than Roll20.
I was pretty disgusted after their gencon panel. Thought I’d learn something about the platform all I got was a one hour lecture in how “woke” all the role 20 devs on. Then they had a massive data breach, I am now enjoying emails trying to blackmail me with said data. Unfortunately for the guy that bought that data after that panel at gencon i made sure said data was all bullshit. These people are ignorant and the Song holiday in Cambodia has never fit a group more.
Sad how things like this happened, but let's cheer up and look forward to that 100k mark! 🎉
Cheers to that
sam whary - tatts and tears or a face reveal video? What do you want to see for the 100k celebration?
Friendship with roll20 ENDED
Now FANTASYGROUNDS is my best friend
Roll20 killed my goat.
Ha! Well memed, 8/10 made me lol and reply.
Roll20 sent my party on a quest that killed them
I'm gonna make GM Forge my new friend :)
Goblin They turned me into a newt.
I got better.
Cody, I am glad you shared your experiences (as I am also glad Andrew shared his experiences). People will make their own choices, but also more information is out there.
Bill Allan Bill!
I'm a mixed race gay guy and sometimes I find difficult to see representation, but I abhor the way some people use manipulation and bad faith to simply pander for the crowd. Why Nolan did not pitched the black lady to the group? He could even talked to the guys to bring other less known diverse TH-camrs later to present their work and even boost their channels. Later, they could even become part of the permanent hosts. But he choose to be a biased moron. To me, even with racism from several white people, I do not find productive to be a jerk, berate and anger on people that have done nothing wrong to me. Yes, It is sad to have a group of only white people as representation, but I doubt it is a deliberate choice most of the time. Racism and the industry is a far more complex issue than putting a black girl to stream and getting applause. No movement was made by Roll20 to do real change. It just a shoehorned attempt to manipulate and that is real racism: Treating people as objects to use for their own purposes.
I don't believe on letting politics out of RPG and Video-games. It is natural to people to be political and I even try to play some games unaligned to my believes to gain a wider worldview. But using political agendas as empty platforms to make money is gross.
I agree.
You described how I was feeling really well, and it made me feel good to read your response, so thanks.
This. It's fair to say "look, we're focused on expanded representation and this doesn't fit it." Saying that reasoning is racist is silly. But if he said what he actually said, it was stupid, racist, etc.
NaBro, no need for you to apologize about this video. It needed to be said. It needed to be brought to light. Only way to heal infection is to purge it. This, on top of what NolanT did over at Reddit? That shows me that I really don't need to fool with Roll20 much anymore.
Look, mate--I don't always agree with you on your take (particularly about Healing Word--now, Goodberry with a Life Domain Cleric? That's pretty OP), but mad respect to you on this. You were clear, you were concise, you presented the facts, and differentiated between what was fact and what was opinion. I greatly appreciate it.
If Roll20 does pull your products and your subscription, I'd like to know. That just shows how anticonsumer and anticritical opinions they really are, and honestly, if they did that to you, people really need to know so they can make an educated choice and let the market correct itself (yay Austrian Economics).
You've helped me make my decision--the past two weeks I've been bouncing back and forth between "oh, should I sub Roll20, or should I save and buy the Fantasy Grounds License?" all the past two weeks--then the whole thing blows up on Reddit, you bring this to light, and just damn, man. Damn.
Also that signoff, "I got that chance--it just wasn't Roll20," that was bloody B E A U tiful mate. Absolutely savage.
Mad props to you, I'm pressing F just as hard as I can to pay respects, keep your head up, and keep bringing great content (even when I disagree, your videos are masterfully done).
The savage FATALITY at the end said so smoothly it could go down like a crisp glass of apple cider.
If I was FG, I would RIGHT NOW offer a package deal for former Roll20 players... Like, come on board for 35 bucks and get your players handbook for free. Listening to Nolan talk about how he's the biggest and doesn't need anyone makes me cringe!
The only issue I would see for that would be people thinking FG is taking too much advantage of the drama, like Grunkle Stan's "Children fighting! I could _sell_ this!"
IDC about the handbook or anything paid on the service, working API innately supporting all calculations (or letting the DM modifiy the behind the scenes/scripts on the fly for each game) with nice scaling sheets (as in ability to make above level 20 enemy monsters with properly scaling prof bonus, cantrips working on select level dice upgrades and multi-attacks per single click, etc) and items that are linked to their own files to allow trading so that one doesnt have to make "decks of magic items" is all that is needed to drop from R20.
Till then ill stick to it free R20 use as function>form.
They could call it the FU'Nolan Package
ANDELE3025 Not sure what problems you're having with CR 20+ creatures, as pretty much all npc info is entered manually in FG and scales perfectly fine no matter the integer used. As to cantrips' dice upgrades, it's simply a matter of dropping an additional dX into the damage code dialog box. Multiattack is just a matter of clicking the attack roll on the individual attack however many times you need to. Lastly, with magic items, not sure what you're looking to do here -- do you want a magic item that you can port between different campaigns, as a DM?
If they do that I will buy me my entire party fantasy grounds and switch over. I’m real tired of this shit
I love this response to the situation. It would be awesome if for once someone would just apologize for a thing they got wrong, and the apology to be accepted. Great way of being a good person accepting that apology in advance, whether or not that apology is ever stated. You have just gained a new subscriber with this video.
Unfortunately there are precedents in the US (and others) that make it so an apology is an admission of fault.
There are laws specifically in Canada that say that saying sorry is not an admission of fault / guilt / etc. because we say it so often.
Bliffle Splick *at a funeral*
a. "Hey man, I'm sorry for your loss."
b. "Are you admitting something!?..."
You get respect by "Manning Up" and admitting when you are wrong. Silence just makes you look like a douche.
Speaking as a civil litigation attorney, people are understandably concerned by the threat of a lawsuit.
However, I am concerned your video might lead some to self-censor their internet speech out of a fear of being sued. As a strong advocate of free-speech, I wanted to offer my legal opinion on the topic to help thaw any chilling of free speech caused by unfounded fear of defamation suits.
Most states (notably California) have anti-SLAPP statutes (Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation) that pose a very high barrier to entry for the plaintiff, allowing defendants to dismiss the lawsuit very early in the proceedings, usually with their court costs paid for by the unsuccessful plaintiff. In addition, even in the rare cases of defamation suits surviving to judgment, the median damages award is about 5k, far less than the average cost of bringing suit.
Does that mean you can say whatever you like? Mostly, yeah, it kinda does, although the exception proves the rule. But while most attorneys generally tell their clients to err on the side of caution, I think that advice does a disservice to the free flow of ideas.
When it comes to expression, one should err on the side of speaking truth to power, because the measurable benefit to society far outweighs any potential and largely illusory cost.
the median damages award is about 5k, far exceeding the average cost of bringing suit.
Did you mean exceeding? I feel like you meant the opposite, though I'm not for sure.
@@lanmandragoran8337 good catch!
The other problem, and possibly more harmful for those in entertainment, is deplatforming, "cancelling", and other negative social media attention. Even if someone can't sue, they can ruin the person's public image (which can effect income & even lose them employment), with little fear of any real repercussions because most the time the person doesn't have the means to try to fight back.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. I have found myself censoring my opinions on social media concerning problems I have seen with the tabletop gaming industry. Because my opinions differ from the prevailing ideology, and I want to produce materials for that industry, I keep my mouth shut.
@@DoctorPhobos "Prevailing ideology" or "People who scream the loudest on social media"?
The problems isn't having a differing of opinions, that's nothing new among any community, the problem is that certain ideologies will do nothing but scream over those that disagree so they can't be heard until the disenter gives up or if that doesn't work they do anything else they can to silence the other opinions.
Its sad that having an opinion on something totally unrelated to gaming can get you ostracized from the gaming industry just because people only want to be around people that support all of their ideologies.
"I shouldn't fear reprisals from WOTC when I didn't say these things."
It really says something about the gaming industry when its gotten to the point you can actually lose your job/career not because of your own actions, but because someone does something too you because of your race/gender, but it's okay because of your race/gender and you get punished for it happening and even standing up for yourself.
"I don't think WOTC should pull their products from Roll20 just because this guy made sexist/racist comments even though they have a history of banning people for doing just that."
yeah no. at best it would basically be giving this guy a pass because of the race/gender of his victim. A standard, however much we might disagree with it, is a standard and should be kept and used equally upon all people. WoTC should "ban" this guy just like they banned Hambly. If anything, what Nolan did is worse (and potentially illegal) because he refused actual employment based on race/sex, unlike Hambly who really only started a fight with another eceleb. If hambly is banned for an interpersonal dispute that was only connected to WoTC tangentially which involved their clashing fanbases, then Nolan should be banned for active discrimination based on employment using WoTC products.
Lucius Sulla Nolan T Jones is a Co-Founder and board member of Roll20, they can’t just “ban” him.
You have to boycott the company, point blank
This is the same reason that women couldn't call out sexual harassment in the past because they knew that they could get fired for just pointing it out.
Since the people doing it and the people paying their wages were the same people. (or allies of each other)
@@flyingdaggermonkey What we have to do is make our own Roll20, without a racist Co-Founder!
Hambly wans't banned Just for the stuff with the cosplayer. WotC had be having issues with his behaviour for years, and finally had an actual reasong to ban him under ToC, and jumped on it
@@flyingdaggermonkey it's more that WOTC can terminate their licence/contract with roll20
Black woman player & DM here, Roll20 was always trash. Fantasy Grounds is a better platform all around and always has been. Roll20 is easier to learn and more accessible because it's browser based but FG is worth the learning curve and switch to software.
I agree, and now I am even more happy I went with FG, as my TT platform with the recent shit show. Also FG's upcoming update will make it stand out quite a bit and make it worth the switch for others.
It’s even more grid-based than Roll20, which is what turns me off. I don’t like RPG’s that play like tactics games personally.
@@aaronhumphrey3514 I like grids. I have ADHD and it's very hard for me to do spatial relations in my head or remember who I'm next to. Grids do bog down the natural flow of roleplaying though and encourages rules lawyering in some people.
BitsyTheNinja
Hey I’m glad you have found a platform that suits you. I guess I was just venting a bit over the over-representation of grid combat in the market. It wasn’t directed at you really.
@@aaronhumphrey3514 you can theater of the mind it as much as you want.... just because the platform has large support for the grid, does not mean you have to use it. It's really not much different than minis on a table top.
The problematic thing here is that it implies he was only showcasing diversity in a tokenistic way. The bragging about it is classic "oh I'm so clever for jumping on the diversity wagon" is very *yikes*
edit: this is still generating comments a year later and honestly the trashfire is top tier my lads and laddies. keep going pls, I'm bored, this is the good stuff
That's the problem with going for diversity over merit
I do believe it's actually problematic for a woman to be against forced diversity - I think now you actually have to hand in your woman card and be branded as a traitor.
@@Monstercloud9 I believe you'll find I'm against *tokenistic* diversity. Diversity and equal opportunity is the thing to do; doing it because you want to bandwagon jump and get more money? nahhhh
Racism, sexism, and other discriminatory practices aren't so black and white... putting more effort towards finding minority groups to work with and represent is a valid and noble thing IMO.
You're right though, it definitely sounds like token diversity. And his response was completely rude and unprofessional, not to mention his bragging. I just think Taking20/Dawnforge are really weirdly latching onto that specific aspect of "racist/sexist business practices!". Again I think that's a complicated topic, really, but putting that part aside I think everyone reasonable can agree that Nolan guy was being a dick and obviously doesn't know how to act professionally or run a respectful business.
" _I believe you'll find I'm against tokenistic diversity._ "
You're also apparently against sarcasm...
I was considering a roll20 subscription. Good to know they don't want or need my "white male" money. Just discussed this with some of the women we game with and they said that without their GM, they don't need a subscription either. Now we just need to find a non-racist, non-sexist alternative. Any suggestions? Thought of Fantasy Grounds but their ideology does not seem much better. Who the hell started injecting social politics into gaming. The only racism my characters have to deal with are between dwarves, elves and orcs.
What happened.
Yuri Bezmienov's lecture SUbversion is what happened. It's here on youtube. Watch it.
@persadies, From my observations this issue began to crop up about five or so years ago and significantly gained in traction when politicians (regardless of ideology) started playing identity politics over policy - which was then gobbled up by mainstream media and made commonplace to the point where more often that not it isn't even consciously registered any more. And people being more and more partisan these days isn't going to help either. Because all these people do is furthering the underlying issues of tribalism: Left versus right, black versus white, male versus female, - it all boils down to "Us" versus "Them" which is inherently toxic to a functioning society.
Roleplaying can only function in a group that works together. Sure, the characters may argue with one another all day, but the players - all of them - need to enjoy the experience. If the players are unable to leave behind their tribalism or prejudice, then only one thing is going to happen: Parts of the group will not be enjoying the experience and the group will break apart as a result of it.
@@ranekeisenkralle8265 We have a simple rule, leave your ideologies at the door. We come together for love of the hobby, not to further some social ideology. I have had men and women of different ethnicity's, not because we were trying to fill some sort of absurd quota but because they loved the hobby. RPSs have always been inclusive, at least that was always my experience with it.
@@persadies I couldn't agree more. Sadly this cannot be said for many others out there.
persadies that's also the best way I've seen of addressing this problem, do not throw ideologies on players, but within the witcher games they bring their point with the non humans and sorceresses. They do their part as to bring a great medieval experience, and to pass a message they think that is right WITHIN the borders of fun, immersion, RPG... They bring their history and their characters, and that's that, if someone thinks about things deeply is because of the flawless experience they had, not because of "woke D&D"
Myself and 6 friends are done with Roll20. Fantasy Grounds it is. Never going back.
Fantasy grounds is amazing I’ve been using it for about a year I highly recommend it
But how does it compete with a pricetag of Free?
Cody, we love you man.
I think you are in the right to speak up about this and I hope WotC will listen.
No one deserves to be treated like this by some corporate high horse fat cat that feels himself superior to others.. no one deserves to be treated like this by anyone.
I hope this resolves in the appropriate manner.
Happy gaming Cody.
I've got your back, and I think the rest of the community does too.
I really hope WotC will listen, too, but given certain events in the past, it's entirely possible they won't because of political allegiances.
themanclaw2 AND there isn't a single thing they offer (outside of some graphical crapula maybe) that we "fans of the Game" can't provide ourselves online with a Spreadsheet and some forums to exchange/compare notes...
THEN just set table-times on Discord... and done. If the top-seats embrace the disease, then they need purged with it. ;o)
themanclaw2 Agreed, sadly WoTC will prolly just ban Cody.
My take away from this is: I should record my meetings
I sadly think you're going to be disappointed by WotC's answer.
Wrong race and gender were targeted.
Had it been a black woman, they would have been out yesterday.
Fun fact: Jeremy Hambly was recently banned by GenCon. His crime?
Pointing out the man who assaulted him during GenCon (who had a booth, and was promoted by GenCon on Twitter less than 24 hours after the assault).
Apparently, identifying the man who assaulted you is harassment.
it's sad, most of this video I had a real sympathy for a man who was fearing for his career and livelihood... until he spent the last few minutes of his video going "oh but this is a bad guy, i'm not like him please don't hate me"
if you have tough enough skin to be able to laugh off someone not giving you thousands of dollars you shouldn't need to throw someone under the bus because you're afraid of being punished.
NoESanity as he said at the start. The business aspect of where he was was very small. If one banned him, they all banned him, and he’s up a creek without a paddle. Hence all the “please don’t hate me” pieces. Oh, and don’t forget. He also faced the chance of legal repercussions for saying what he did. Prove me wrong and I’ll believe you.
It’s my personal opinion that gencon promoted that assaulter because he hit Jeremy.
Hambly is a known Bigot. So... good on Gencon.
Tatakai no Kami lol found a little lurking smash the fascist. Good on you comrade. Please line up with the rest of our fellow revolutionaries by that wall.
But seriously do please prove he’s a bigot you mindless npc. I mean it’s not like I’ve watched his content since he was a claw machine channel and always found him interesting without a hint of racism. His magic stuff did bore me to tears.
Halloween ideas sounds like a great vid!
Yes!
I'm running a one-off on the 20th.
Can't wait.
Never tried non-canon holiday adventures in my game but really excited to start with Halloween.
Remember when everyone could just come together and enjoy a great game together without drama or fear? Those were the days. I love everything you do Cody and Save or Dice is my favorite D&D Stream. Look forward to the return to the usually scheduled programs.
P.S. Healing Word is overpowered hahaha
It totally is.
Salt O'Mancer I wish I could say that. I’ve had some good home groups but I’ve had some drama at my tables too. It gets worse with online games it seems. There are a lot of companies that have dirty laundry that comes out in today’s online world too.
Master the Game True. Stuff happens, people make mistakes, and some people seem determined to make asses of themselves. I've had drama happen at tables before too (That is just part of social interactions). But it is very different when that drama could very well damage your life and your business, compelling you to make a statement you would rather not have to make. It's like what was said in the video, today's society is pitchforks and torches. That doesn't help anyone or anything. I was mostly alluding to a time when it was okay to get upset about something and walk away and still be able to just come back to the table and everyone could have a good time. That's what I would like to return to. You don't have to agree with everyone at your table on everything, you just have to be able to have fun together.
When was that?
Not even the most innocent and fun communities are drama free. Really a shame we live in such a time
Dawnforge cast also made a video about Roll20. Guess I’ll be taking my bussines away from roll20. Fantasy Grounds FTW
Fantasy grounds is unfortunately super expensive. I wish they would be more lenient with their pricing for us poor folks.
GameArmada unfortunately, that’s true 😔
All you need is the gm to have the ultimate edition and the rest can have free. There are other break down if you have a full version. And they have a monthly sub. Hope that helps.
Archania thanks, I’ll look into it.
I know, I've been playing free on Roll20 for 5 years and can't switch to Fantasy Grounds atm
You are one of my favorite TH-camrs, everyone named in this video for your Save or Dice campaign, are amazing people. I cannot believe that Roll20 would do something like this to any of you. I will be using fantasy grounds from now on. Thank you for bringing this to light.
From what Nolan said about the young black women, it sounds less like a genuine attempt at anything social justice related, and more like he wanted to take advantage of the business benefits that come with deliberate diversity. Which is of course still bad. That just my opinion though
What's worse Zac for me is the complete arrogance saying he doesn't need the TH-camRS. That is just silly business sense.
Michael Gaskin yeah totally! There's no reason Roll20 couldn't do business with them while also looking for more diverse parties to also support
To me it seems ridiculous to try and target different people because they're black for example and you don't have that many black people playing your game. Rather you should find what attracts people to your game which has nothing to do with race etc.. but rather things like they like reading books or telling stories or being creative
That is interesting. How do you think he could take advantage out of that though?
Its because they are starting to catch on to the social/culture war that's going on right now and want to get support from it's drama.
It's over, Roll20, he has the moral high ground!
"YOU UNDERESTIMATE MY POWERRRR!"
"You underestimate my Wokenesssss!"
You were the choosen one! You were suppose to balance the online pen and paper!
so i searched for an alternative for roll20 and found on steam the little gem "gm forge". for 25 bucks its highly flexible, even more than roll20, you can even create good looking character sheets without api knowledge. when you can make basic makros in roll20 you will be able to create a complete custom game without any restrictions. gm forge can basically do everything roll20 can, but there is much more. because it not server base you can use unlimited grafic assets to build maps (as long there is space on your harddrive), you can use your own music and even use youtube videos, there are effects like night, lighting, earthshackes, rain or snow for your maps, only the gm needs the game, players play for free and there is steam workshop support. the problem is because its early access (but totally working) there is a lack of tutorials, many things you have to make out yourself, a clunky ui sometimes and there is no proper periphery like a forum or wiki etc, but the more people join and support and give feedback to the dev the better it will be. when we support this thing, when especially people join this project that are not only playing and enjoy to help to make it better, this thing will in the end much better and especially much cheaper and consumerfriendly like roll20. come to the dark side, we have cookies......and beer. here is their channel th-cam.com/channels/wXzNQR7xFTAksOhXAQ1wlg.htmlvideos
Also Fantasy Grounds.
Fernando Zavaleta Bustos i really like fantasy grounds, my problem is i and my group play a homegrown system (a hybrid of d&d and midgard) and without serious programing skills i couldnt port this system into fantasy grounds (i tried with the demo before). after organizing several thousands of downloaded assets from the roll20 marketplace to use in gm forge, making my first map, i'm now working on my own custom character sheet and implementing the rules...and it works well till now. this is all after one day of usage, even with 400 hours experience with roll20 things were much more time intensiv or even impossible with my skill level (could do macros but no api). and this is only day 1 i use it.
Thanks man! GM Forge was exactly what I was looking for and I had no idea it existed
nice ;)
I believe there was once guy on Reddit, who posted his work on own kind of virtual tabletop. It was early development, but already was incredibly well made. I might try to search for it, but might be also this one you present here. It was a while ago, I don't remember exactly now.
Mad respects to this dude.
Just, seriously.
So much respect for you in this video. This is how more people need to handle these kinds of things.
Its nice to see someone who's NOT trying to start a riot over an issue and instead is trying to inform ppl and bring the community together as a whole.
I have a completely different take away.
He's blubbing like fuck over a straightforward business decision, and then banging on about how "thick skinned" he is.
He also clearly doesn't understand how advertising works, and why people pay to sponsor things in the first place.
@@arfived4 Just because he's voicing his displeasing over the event doesnt mean he's not thick skinned. Letting things like this go without letting people know is how injustices go unnoticed.
That's how SJW culture has grown so big, cuz whike the sensible people just carried about their day, snowflakes hhoot and hollar about all these non-problems
@ninjahedgehog5
It's basic brand association - Roll20 would clearly rather that their product be associated with young, diverse and dynamic content creators, and I dare say that the whole sector would be overjoyed if RPGs shook the "dorky white guys" stigma that they carry, because they'd all make a fuckton more money cashing in on the likes of Game of Thrones if they did.
It's up to Roll20 where, and on whom, they spend their hard-earned advertising budget - it's one thing to glom easy money off your viewers via Patreon, but a commercial sponsor will want something in return, and they clearly didn't feel that this content would provide them with anything. If they'd approached, say, Nike, they'd have likewise been dismissed out of hand.
He felt that he was entitled to someone else's money, they disagreed and didn't give it to him, the end.
"Just because he's voicing his displeasing over the event doesn't mean he's not thick skinned. Letting things like this go without letting people know is how injustices go unnoticed. "
He approached a company for sponsorship, got told that he didn't meet their brand profile, and then went on the internet to quite literally PROCLAIM himself "the victim of racist and sexist abuse", which he isn't a victim of under any sane definition of those terms, and seems under the impression that he's going to set off a shitstorm with this ridiculous non-troversy. If this constitutes an "injustice" in your book, then your sense of justice is completely fucked.
(For what it's worth, he probably should have taken note of all the non-white faces in the 5e rulebooks, not to mention the mention of sexuality and gender identity, before he appealed to Wizards of the Coast not to hammer them too hard - they're evidently also trying to move beyond the "bunch of white males" thing themselves, because, as I said, they'll make a ton more money)
"That's how SJW culture has grown so big, cuz whike the sensible people just carried about their day, snowflakes hhoot and hollar about all these non-problems"
You and he are the snowflakes here, poppet. You're the ones hooting and hollering over, quite literally, a non-problem - and, seeing as you brought it up, that's almost always the delicious irony with the "anti-SJW" crowd, as you always bleat on longer, harder, and over far less that those you're opposing.
I, on the other hand, are "the sensible people going about their day".
Im finally here at the start of some drama instead of months after
+
Dont even know what hes talking about, just played dnd the first time 2 weeks ago, totally new 2 everything
Want some popcorn? Also, pack some shades. This gonna be lit.
@@fiffi5318 You'll find everything here.
www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/9iwarj/after_5_years_on_roll20_i_just_cancelled_and/?
In short: One of the founders of Roll20 banns people on his subreddit for critique. He does that with the wrong person, and keeps on riding himself deeper into it for all of the internet to see.
And now, this bombshell drops. Nice explosion.
Achievement unlocked!
Welcome to the shitshow!
Thanks for being brave and sharing your story, people like Nolan need to understand their behavior cannot be tolerated.
Never played D&D, always been interested, watched a few streams. Looked into how to get into it during this lockdown. Kinda wondered why people would mention Roll20 but wouldn't recommend it. Sorry man you had to experience that.
If you are interested in playing D&D most DMs who use Fantasy Grounds own an ultimate license. So all you would need is the demo version to play in their games. Give it a try :) It's a really friendly community.
@@Walawalacookie I know its a late response, but thanks for the info! I will have to try that.
Btw, I'm the same guy who posted above, just a different acc
@@usmcbromell Glad I could help then :)
To me this sound like a a case of "you made your bed, now lie in it." So I think its only fair Nolan gets to lie in the bed he made.
As for WoTC and Jeremy Hambley. That was a giant clusterfuck of manipulation and even some outright lies. He made a few offhand comments and mentioned a few people here and there and they built it up as if it was a several year long campaign of Jeremy actively going after people for the sole purpose of being an evil (insert your favourite type of villain here, I hear nazi's are popular these days). Never mind the fact people working with WoTC, advocated for harassing and actively going after Hambley's youtube, patreon, twitter etc. And there's even a few working for WoTC that was actively going after him. Hence why I called that whole mess a clusterfuck. Hambley ain't perfect, and he has a tendency to go ham on things when the prudent choice would be restraint. But that's water under the bridge now. Then again, considering how many times he's embarrassed WoTC and their associates since by bringing to light the collection of skeletons they have in their collective closets. His banning has helped him more than hindered him.
If he was so smart about getting a "young black female twitch streamer" on board shouldn't he have been smart enough to talk you in to adding her to the project? Getting you to increase her audience with yours would be a better idea. So short sighted and a huge missed business opportunity.
This. I would have rather the more polite phrase "how about a little diversity?" - but it's a better idea. On the flip side, I *know* I would have been pissed at the phrase "5 black guys" in pretty much any scenario - but when asking for funding/sponsorship you kinda have to just take your lumps...
Well I was going to learn roll20 because its free, guess I'm not now
And please STOP APOLOGIZING!!! you did nothing wrong!
To be fair, the free version of the product is fine. You don’t need to directly support them if you do some digging online for map assets.
The issue is roll20 is a good service that's easy to use.
The issue is the people who own it.
t y p o ?
Foundry VTT.
Dude, solid video. You took the high ground and presented the facts in such a well articulated way. I know this kind of stuff is rough to do, but thank you for doing it. I personally appreciate the strength of character you showed here man. It's so lacking in recent media. You're a good man Cody. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Stop apologising to Wizards. They don't deserve it. Don't treat them like your corporate masters.
Damian Freeman Seeing as he says constantly in this video how he always advocated for Roll20, perhaps we are only a few months away from him getting elbow smacked by Wiz in similar fasion and him changing his tune about them too...
It's cute he thinks he's 'putting Wizards in a tough position' because he's pointing out racism and sexism in one of their business partners. The racism and sexism he's pointing out is the wrong kind -- it is not only accepted but encouraged. I predict Wizards will take no action and will privately congratulate Nolan.
@@isheen8025 yeah I found it charmingly naive. Chris and Mike retweet a ton of left wing stuff.
@@AJSTITAN14 Yeah they do. And recently Mercer (not a part of WOTC, but they did put his picture in Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, so...) basically tweeted that if you don't agree with his politics you shouldn't bother watching his show. The WOTC/DND scene is becoming more and more SJW, which is bothersome to me, and I'd imagine more than just me as well.
@@vicaring45LC you don't see asians in STEM crying about systemic racism. I worked in IT at Macys and a lot of the IT leadership there were asian.
It's a strange irony that the left wants to dismantle the machine that makes their comfortable lives possible and hand out the pieces to people who couldn't possibly reassemble it.
Looking forward to all the other videos you have planned, would love to hear some Halloween ideas and everything else you have planned moving forward.
That said, it sucks to hear that this stuff happened to you guys, I've liked your videos since I first saw them a while ago and you've always come off as a good and genuine person. Everyone is starting to see Nolan T for what he really is, with everything that happened on Reddit and now with you and DFC I don't see people wanting to stand with this guy.
It never ceases to amaze me, the intolerance of the those who preach tolerance. It is BS that you had to deal with this.
I still can't believe how sad this is.
In a hobby that is literally about roleplaying somebody else than you are in real life, all that some people care about is your IRL skin colour and gender. In a community that has been ostracized for so long, people will start diving others into groups based on how "progressive" of an image they can get by hanging out with them.
Disappointed, in the extreme. Playing online without facecams, to this day I am not sure what ethnicity most of my players were, much less sexuality. Because it didn't matter, not once did I have to ask for it. You come together, and you play. But of course somebody has to show how "great" of a person he is by being openly racist and treating minorities as tokens to show to other people.
It's the same in hollywood these days. The cry that a straight actor should not play a gay part, or that a cis person shouldn't play a transgender part.....I thought the whole point of acting is you play a part of someone you aren't....but the reverse isn't true, there's no crying about trans people playing cis people, or gay actors playing straight roles.
Get woke, go broke.
I really enjoy your content and I was so happy to find you on youtube. Because I wanted a better way to play DnD 5th edition while on the move than having to carry 275 pounds of books and cubes of Pepsi and mountain dew to my friend's places before I was old enough to drive back in ADnD 2nd edit. era. lol, I really like the DnD Beyond website that you told me about making Characters are lightning fast compared to bookmarking flipping through a ton of books. I'm a thick skin person as well. I don't let words bother me the only time I get involved if it becomes physical. My dad always told me you" You never start a fight first. If the fight starts you damn well better finish it on top." I live by the words to this day at 34yrs old. I judge people by the conduct of their character, not by their race, sex, or religion. If I was in your shoes in that meeting with Nolan I would have been shocked a little as well. I would of thank him for his time and ended the call. Let Nolan continue to act like a piece of shit and let karma handle him. You did the right thing in this video. You set the facts straight with the truth of the matter. I hate drama with a passion myself and doesn't belong in this gaming community.
I look forward to your Killing your players with: [ ] " series videos I hope you keep them coming. I can't wait to see your miniatures and all the cool stuff you have lined up. Don't get discouraged here on youtube or anywhere else. Keep doing what you like to do! I appreciate all your hard work :)
Did he set the facts straight? There was an awful lot of opinion, and not sure about remembering things. Seems like he just wants to stir the pot to generate views.
Michael Barnes
So mentioning that Nolan said very specifically that they don’t want five white guys and that they tokenised a POC female? Opinion?
Over a year later and Nolan is still employed with roll 20...
Of course. These scumfucks will never be ousted unless they get metoo'd. It's literally the only way to stop their corrupt webs from keeping them in place
Orgspasm knowing the types of people who pull that kind of crap it’s only a matter of time. Either he’ll be metoo’d or the FBI will roll up and arrest him for possession of C.P. Then everyone will be shocked and pretend they NEVER saw the signs.
Noone gets fired for racism against white people or sexism against men. Actually, if you live in the USA; you are most likely celebrated for it.
@@Raoul9753 remember, it's not racism if it's against whites, and it's not sexism if it's against males. Those are social justice.
That was sarcasm, by the way.
@@clone_69 Well, it might be sarcasm to you, but for the current year, its sadly also true...
For what it is worth: for your courage in speaking up, you just gaining my scruption.
You dealt with this in the best way Cody, not just for your audience but for your own sake as well.
i already hated roll 20 before watching this just because it charges you for stuff that you already own, stuff that the creators had no hand in making and stuff that they have no right to charge for. i was team rolegate since day 1
The lesson here is RECORD ALL MEETINGS. You never know when it matters.
Also, thanks for bringing confirmation of an unacceptable situation to the foreground. I agree that this needs to be known, but there is room for roll20 to step up and fix their attitude toward half the worlds population if it is sincere. For the record, I am Native American, and any racism is wrong.
It's on a much smaller scale and in a non related area, but every interaction i have with the company i work for, is saved to a seperate hard drive on my computer and backed up weekly. There have been people that have been poached from said company and others even gone as far as trying to get one employee to buy drugs so they can terminate his contract. If im going down, its on my own terms, in my own way.
Not only in meetings, but in jobs overall. Record ALWAYS. It's incredible what people will say or do when they feel they are not under surveillance, it's really depressing. I don't know if this is recent event in the world, or if it has been around since the dawn of time, either way is fucked up.
i know its very late to say this but depending where you live recording things without permission can be super illegal and get you in trouble
I take that personally what Roll20 did to you and the other youtubers. I was going to join the Roll20, but this alone discourage any effort to join or continue Roll20. My honest opinion, money come and go but the community [real people] can make things happen. Roll20 don't realize that they're not the only place that players can roll with their peers and meet new people. I must also thank all the people like Taking20 for introducing me to D & D. All of you give so much information and playthroughs. Please keep it up!!! I'll be rooting for all of ya!!!
Well guess who isnt going to use roll20 anymore
Jeff?
@@merlinmeurer5339 Wow that was a great guess! You get a solid high five
Me?
Me
I mean, you can use it, just make sure they're neither making ad money from you nor that you buy anything off their store.
The Video of the other guy had me already drove me away from roll20 together with a lot of other players that follow me. We ditched some money together and bought Fantasy Grounds Ultimate. We never will touch roll20 again.
Stay crunchy.
I'm not a fan of Fantasy Grounds either so what are my choices?
@@TalonInTx There's MapTool, from rptools.net.
@@TalonInTx Foundry ttv is coming out soon and is a fucking bop.
@@TalonInTx Drivethru RPG has it's own VTT now too called Astra. It looked pretty good.
Ive never liked Roll 20 from the day they came out, especially after reading their edit logs and realizing that vastly over 80% of the scripting in Roll 20 was made by the very people who they sold subscription to. Have any one of those men or women seen a dime for their work? Absolutely not. Roll 20 is morally repugnant and I'd give anything to see a bigger badder more honest fish eat them whole.
I know it's a year later. But to add to what you said. Roll20 isn't even that good as a Virtual Tabletop either. It's why I switched to Fantasy Grounds years and years ago.
It's a monstrous way to run a business, and even worse way to treat the people who help you build it. : /
I've been playing D&D for more than 39 years. Because of my Father; who played from the beginning, I had the honor of shaking the hand of, "The Legend" Gary Gygax many times. One of the many lessons I learned from Gygax was that we were not to care where we came from or what we were. We were to relish the fact that we were one as a community of gamers. As an outcast I was drawn to D&D, a realm where I could play out fantasy without judgement.
We specifically created this community to be inclusive to all without judgement. I still carry this spirit in my games and life today. What Nolan and his like have done is an affront to the core spirit of the game and memory of our beloved founder. This sickens me to the core. It should resonate with all role players. This child will not see one red penny of my money ever again and I will activity shun any product that has his open involvement.
Thank you Talking20 for bringing this to light. Please don't hesitate to illuminate injustice. It is only through the light of truth that we can openly combat the void of discrimination such as this.
~Gypsy
Amen.
Im subscribed to every channel in save or dice and I'm a Mexican - Native american man. You guys are awesome and I'm so sorry that made this racist and sexist situation happened to you. I understand how that feels.
The best thing about Fantasy Grounds is the fact that you can get a lifetime membership if you're going to use the platform for a long time.
P.S./Edit: It also lets you easily make your own RPG system, cheaper than Roll20 does.
Beware the power of the Guild!
TheDMGinfo CG rules!
twitter.com/roll20app/status/1042171651964592128
Unless your some rainbow racial pan-gender amorphous reptile kin that has to come with a label of your pronouns, then role 20 doesn't want to do business with you.
Cody, you need to provide some solid evidence of this. Otherwise, you may actually get into trouble. The world is cruel. You need to protect yourself.
Also, you KNOW that some people will dismiss you as a liar because “there is no sexism agains white hetero cis men”.
FelineElaj No, this is intended as mockery. This is ridiculous, they deserved to be mocked. This happens to every fun thing, it gets a little popular then people sell out and ruin the good thing they created. Just look up at the video, a man has to afraid of telling the truth. There are no more hidden corners to lay low in, mock everything, tell the truth, and stop caring how they could hurt you because they are going to hurt you anyway.
Cody Bell my post had nothing to do with the first 99% of the video...
Just a FYI Fantasy grounds is on sale right now
I am Feminist and a strong believer in representation and equality and have been playing D&D for 15+ years. Yes, It is a great idea to bring in fresh faces to the world of Dungeons and Dragons. To include more diversity, so that new players don't feel excluded or feel like it's just a club for white men in their 30's and 40's. Saying that, to use diversity as a means to gain revenue and to brag about it is a major step backwards. You have every right to speak your mind Cody! Keep up the great content.
why are you a feminist if you truly believe in equality you would be egalitarian
I have seen plenty of diversity in my dnd group, im a trans woman (the DM), there are 3 guys (1 is bi), and 3 women (1 bi, 1 pan, 1 ace), but honestly, i dont care about them because they are diverse, i care about them because they are my friends, they are good people and they have supported me ever since i started transitioning. I would still love them all and play with them gladly, even of they were all straight white men.
@@ryanrhino2318 Egalitarianism isnt a movement. We are feminists. The majority of feminists believe broadly in equality between the sexes and, unlike so called "egalitarianism" their have been people calling themselves feminists actually advocating for equal rights for decades.
I think diversity as a way to gain revenue is a gigantic improvement. It recognizes a customer where they often were formally were ignored. It places $$ values on their opinions, on their wants in the market. It acknowledges their existence. If you roll back 40 years advertisers ignored a lot of markets. The majority was all that mattered and it skewed everything financially. Capitalism is about greed, first and foremost that is the driving engine. Moving towards diversity for the sake of greed is great. It will move the needle even if the reason is corrupt.
I love watching your videos and I am a huge fan of the content provided by you and all those involved. I am so sorry to hear that this has happened. It’s not okay and Nolan is in the wrong. Because of Role20’s poor behavior and racist remarks, I am now going to be seeking alternative platforms. Thank you for calling out these social wrongs so that we can all be aware. I will try out Fantasy Grounds.
I was just deciding if I was going to use Roll20 for any of my gaming needs.... now I know I won't be.....ever. Thank you for letting us know about this. Racism and discrimination is not ok against anyone. He's a fool for saying these things and losing business at a minimum. Ethically it's repulsive. I'm glad I already picked FG before even knowing this.
I unsubbed my subscription from roll20 and deleted my account. I just went to Fantasy Grounds and dumped $110 on upgrading my standard FG to the Ultimate version. I am absolutely a fan of equal treatment. Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity and respect, role reversal isn't equality.
That's great, but while I support voting with your dollar, free is hard to beat when you don't have many to spare lol
@@apollohateshisdayjob9606 When something is free, you are the product.
@@seanschraidt3985 cool, more value than my bank account has
the white guys who sued the universtiy of michigan for not being accepted while black students of lower academic success (GPA, test scores) were accepted won, the principle you're building on is legally sound. just gonna throw that out there. the roll 20 guy shouldn't be too bold with that line, it has cost larger entities more than it could cost him.
It's OK to be white. :^)
I never even heard of the U of M case, this is interesring to know
It's ok to be white :^)
These "it’s ok to be white" comments is lowkey terrifying to me because my government had to retract a political statement because they said that exact phrase.
Yes, my government got attacked for saying "it’s ok to be white" and then proceeded to go back on it.
@@eddiemate I know exactly what you're talking about. Its ridiculous
You did this right. Your business education and acumen shows clearly here.
I appreciate the video Cody. We all say stupid things and think stupid things, and hopefully we come to realize/recognize those things and learn to grow from it. From what I keep hearing, NTJ hasn't and it's causing him and his company issues. Honest videos and testimonies like this are hopefully what said person needs to snap back to reality. I understand where you're coming from 100%, and I get it.
Man, this is so genuine. I dig it. Glad I found your channel, thanks for all the hard work and awesome content.
I like the irony of advertising the Roll20 master series in the description. By the way thank you for that one, it helped me soooo much. Shame I will need to move maptool after hearing all this...
I am curious, did Roll 20 ever publicly respond to this?
I wanna know too
To my knowledge, they did/have not. Either they didn't know about the video (unlikely, if you ask me) or they didn't comment on it, possibly because they didn't want to bring any extra attention to it by making comment.
That's crazy, never in my dreams would I have thought *this* was where this video was going to go
Though this drama literally means nothing to me, as I already use Fantasy Grounds, I just have to comment and say that your politeness and attitude about the entire affair is on point. You did what you needed to do, ie. give the facts, clearly. You did that, and didn't confuse anyone with any fancy opinions disguised as facts or what have you. You were courteous towards everyone involved, and I thank you for that. Good job, my guy.
Reading up on all the issues with Nolan, I will definitely never run any of my games through them as long as he is still working there. Fantasy Grounds or Foundry are way better.
Just a little question: You said something about libel and then said that WotC banned him for "racist, sexist things he said". Could you elaborate on those things? Because I can't remember anything racist or sexist he has said. And mind you, criticizing or being a jerk is neither of those.
Elamdri I know you're probably not too interested in Jeremy but he did a rebuttal to that video and the claims of abuse against Christine. Jeremy's real crime was exposing that WoTC wasn't taking measures against having known pedophiles judging their competition and that his politics disagree with theirs. Jeremy isnt the most tactful guy nor do i even like his content most of the time even if i agree with him usually. But I also find it incredibly dishonest to call him racist or sexist.
Elamdri
Your comment is pretty vulgar and there is a lot to unravel. Let's just say I disagree with everything you just said and leave it at that. He's not altright just because he disagrees with people like you, neither am I. He is not my role model and he is not human garbage. He speaks his mind, and if you disagree, then disagree. But that is a huge load of accusations you are throwing around, bud.
And that "redpill behavior" is not for you to decide if it is acceptable or not. At the end of the day, like I said, you can disagree with that. But being so condescending doesn't make you look like someone with a good point. Or a point at all.
And as a sidenote: I don't know if they are cucks, but they definitely behave like the kind of beta guys, that try to be on the side of a woman, no matter how illogical it is, just to get in her pants. You want to point out sexism? Look at those predators, there you have a few.
EDIT: Maybe I should add something about that ass kicking part. What makes you think someone who simply just says something you disagree with makes them pain-worthy? That sounds exactly like the hypocrisy he is trying to point his fingers at.
I started playing dnd again about a year and a half ago. Last time I had played was in mid 90's maybe (started in 80's) Had a buddy that was using roll20 and convinced me to play. He had invested over $500 with them. We just switched over to fantasy grounds mostly in part because of this drama. My buddy was resistant to jump shit because of his investment into roll20 but In all honesty, fantasy grounds is a far better product and we're all much happier using it.
How terribly ironic that the pre-roll ad on this video was for Roll20.
Sadly I just posted for a group on there, guess ill end up taking it somewhere else. Glad I bought foundry now, thanks so much for this, very sorry to hear about your experience.
In the current climate it's difficult for us lighter folk to come out against racism, so I just wanted to say props to you man. I know it's 2 years late, but keep this video up, it's eye opening for a lot of us.
Really loved your starfinder series and it's what pulled me into the channel. Keep on keeping on!
If you're coming here late, FoundryVTT is awesome, and so is fantasy grounds, check them out as alternatives if you care!
@@drearbeast5190 thanks for the recommendation! Foundry looks great!
Sad part is WoTC has now said very similar things in a hiring tweet. "the gaming industry has too many cis straight white dudes, and we could use more people who AREN'T that (sic) of that description. so if you're inclined at all please apply"
of course they did wotc loves their token diversity
Unfortunately they don't care, they have the "right" kind of racist and sexist views. Sadly as long as its against whites and men WoTC doesn't care. Social Justice says you can't be racist or sexist against them and WoTC and these other groups follow social justice so you are SOL. I'm sorry to tell you but it will never happen man. You just happen to be the wrong race and gender to be treated like a person these days and not discriminated against.
So what we do is not support these companies
ryan rhino good luck trying to, you’re going to have a hell of a time finding a company that doesn’t at least pay lip service to these groups. It’s a new world we’re being born white and male is the worst thing in the world and means you are just the embodiment of every negative thing in human history.
Yup, I don't buy shit except what I need to survive
I was not agreement with you until your discussion about an apology starting at 19:20 Thank you for bringing this around the community.
I've tried Fantasy Grounds and it kinda sucks and it's really expensive, at least compared to Roll20 which is just free. I don't understand how anyone considers it an equivalent. I can understand why people would be upset at Nolan and Roll20 over this debacle, but it's not going to keep me from using it. It's just a vastly better platform for my games.
I’ve been using FantasyGrounds personally. I won’t lie, it’s expensive. It’s also got a steep as hell learning curve, god help you if you want to code something in by yourself (just learning how to give fire resistance to my Tiefling took way too long, even with assistance).
However I found that once you do have all the details set up, it’s highly automated and you have to do very little.
I don’t know how it compares to Roll20 though.
Just remember that you don’t have to stop using Roll20 just because Nolan is a dick.
If you want to know if a statement or action should be considered racist, change the race and gender to whatever group you personally feel is the most discriminated against. If doing so makes the statement abhorrent to you, then it's racist, no matter what race and gender is actually being referenced. Nolan's statement was racism, despite how casually most people would dismiss it. The saddest thing is that if he had said it about another race and gender, there would have been a significant backlash and repercussions, instead of nothing at all.
I think there's some truth to what you're saying, but it's not the full story.
Was 'we don't want white people representing us' discriminating against white people? Yeah, obviously. Does that cross over into racism? No, I don't think it does. There are examples where you can be discriminating without it being a bad thing; if you were advertising a woman's hair product, for example, it wouldn't be unreasonable to say 'we don't want bald men representing this product', right? That's fair. In this case, the company might be looking to market to people of colour or women. There is nothing wrong with that and they are completely within their rights to do so, if they think it's the sensible thing to do for their business.
That said, the way Nolan said it (assuming this is true; we only have this guys account without evidence) was unprofessional and hinted at tokenism racism. He speaks of using a black woman as marketing material as though she's an object, and goes on to objectify these white guys by comparing their value to hers. That's a racist comment.
Does it have the same impact as if he had said 'no black people'? No, not really. There is an institutional aspect to racism too. Though Nolan took part in a racist action, he is just one person. On a systemic level, white people have far more opportunities to be represented by brands, and so Roll20 turning some white men down for this is less likely to negatively impact them than if they were black. That doesn't mean there was no impact; but it does mean the impact was likely lesser. For example, just look at how many white men are able to monetize TH-cam content related to D&D compared to people of colour. Even in this video, this guy is able to extract value from the fact he was discriminated against. Black people are more often denied such opportunities.
So while Nolan may have acted unkindly to these guys, it's not got that much of an effect. It probably hurt their feelings; but honestly, they're grown men. I'm sure they have mature ways to handle being upset.
It did not have the same impact as other forms of racism, and so I think you're wrong for directly comparing these things to the experiences of people of colour or women.
Wow, I do not want to touch Roll20 ever again.
Not only was is racist and sexist, Nolan went on to virtue signal like the biggest arsehole in the world.
Then again, common view is that you cannot be racist against white people and cannot be sexist against men.
A total load of BS but still is the case.
This is a very neutral and factual video, good job.
However, i kind fear this will only make it hurt more when people come after you anyway.
Damnit, Cody. I love you so much, dude. You’re such a good guy. Even when something like this happens, you’re willing to let it be water under the bridge if the person is sorry. Keep it up, man. I want to see you become even more successful and this community to get even bigger!
You feared reprisal because WOTC is very vindictive, as are a handful of e-celebs who think that the game would be better off with fewer white men. It is understandable. I'm embracing other games as a result. As a longtime MtG player, I support my local stores, but I play old formats where I can avoid giving WOTC any money.
I JUST finished the tutorial at roll20. Looks like that's all I'll ever do there. Fantasy grounds Here I come.
@Colin Deal people pay for Roll20??
Cody. It's been 8 months. How do you feel about roll20 today?
Representation is great. What this was was tokenism. Rich business people realised that it makes them look good if they pretend to care. Yet, at the end of the day, its still rich olds white men in business.
A shame when we all must live in fear of mass censorship for interest,religion,or other stuff and a bunch of people can't get together to play d&d for previously menchend reasons
Really he should have simply said no and left it at that.As a Hispanic I'm often thankful for discrimination done in a way that is often done in a gentleman manner or so discretely that it could pass as something else. I know white men are often discriminated against openly because people do not consider it prejudice. It is blatant rude and harmful effects to the person it is done to.
As somebody who has never watched Roll20 or Taking20, and have no idea what any of this really is about, here's my 5 cent:
Not wanting to do business with 5 white men isn't necessarily racist/sexist, if their goal is a more diverse content pool for watchers, then having 5 people of the same gender and skin color would be not diverse. It's not /ist because the reason behind it isn't "people like this are better than people like these, so if you don't have people like this we don't want you".
Whether or not one should strive for diversity like this, is up to ones own ideology, but not necessarily something objectively inherently bad.
As for the bragging, it could be that they wanted to explain not being obliged to doing business with somebody just because they're big, but failed to state it in a non-"douchey" way (or didn't realize they should).
If anybody has any input on what I said, I'd be happy to hear it so I can reply or change my opinion.
You should not need it explained to you why it's unacceptable not to work with people because of their race or gender. It is the definition racist and sexist. The cult of identity politics is what's ripping our culture apart right now from movies to games to comic books. That a certain group of people think it's fine to be racist and sexist as long as it's to the politically correct group.
"Racist" and "Sexist" are words that represent something, and aren't something bad in themselves, IE. if I call jumping for racist, it doesn't make jumping bad, so one must always look at the meaning behind the words when determining if something is bad or not.
Publicity is a limited resource, giving somebody more publicity will make somebody else have less visibility. This is similar to university admissions where some fields make it easier for people of an under-represented gender to join. Some people find this sexist, others do not, but it obviously doesn't have a clear cut answer everyone agrees on.
So what happened? Any apologies? Anybody said anything from Roll20 or WotC?
I learned the difference between slander an Liable from spider man
Aye, J. Jonah taught us all that day
Damn this blew up so fast
It sounds pretty plausible that Nolan believed your viewer demographic (your built-in audience) overlapped with the demographic of customers Roll20 was already reaching. This is why the diversity discussion would come up. So he may have technically said, "You're five white guys," but in the context of saying that Roll20 is already reaching white guys and wants a more diverse customer base. If this is true, then I wouldn't worry about libel. It's not libel. I may worry about false light or negligent misrepresentation.