Realizing I’m autistic fundamentally altered my perception of my identity, my understanding of people, relationships, interactions-basically the entirety of my experience and interpretation of the reality in which I exist. The fact that nothing has *objectively* changed is actually a significant part of what makes that realization process so overwhelming-because I have to somehow reconcile my fundamentally altered perception of an unchanged reality. Of course I don’t have to convince you of this. Clearly I’m just as triggered.
Re. objectivity-there are a variety of ways of defining it, the one I think is most applicable in this case is: "objective" is the plural of "subjective".
Also, I think Dr. Syl's view is based on a model in which we start with a "standard human", then a variety of things might happen to that person. Diagnoses are labels for how people have been "damaged" by things that have happened to them. Psychiatrists are people who fix / reduce / mitigate that "damage". I think that's a reasonable model in some cases-that's basically my view of depression in myself. It isn't inherent to me, it's something that's happened to me, and I would be pleased if someone fixed it. Viewing depression as a permanent feature / identity / limit, on the other hand, would imply that I reject any possibility of healing. Of course, in this model an autistic person is also a "damaged" neurotypical person. The model doesn't have room for different kinds of minds, only for standard-issue minds that have been "damaged"-so we can't *actually* *be* *different* in any fundamental or permanent way. Except that we are, and people who do not realize this consistently misunderstand us and invalidate our experiences.
Thoughts... Check out the: Other minds problem. Even when we do phenomenology of self perception, it is taking place in our heads, and with language that must already be understood. Everything is a projection from our selves (not that it's a hologram or divination, just that we are never outside of ourselves except for the sensory space allowed to us... By our selves experiencing that outside). That will never be untrue. But language still works because we have built it to do what we expect it to do, accidentally or pedagogically, doesn't necessary matter. (Popular society and virality, or meta cognition and engineered curriculum) We can get around the problem by using language association, we start with the simple things... Like, an ice cube is cold. While we pass an ice cube around. This is an over simple example, but it makes the point. Perception is not measurable either. Which is why something like sensation must be materially defined _between_ us. It exists as the sensation of a shared experience. That intangible part, you speak of, is yours alone, but we can engineer experiences that trigger similar response pathways in each of us. There is no, I see a different red than you... Cool, but that doesn't matter in the scheme of agreement definitions. 620-750nm light is red... Perception becomes irrelevant in that case. Intrinsic to perception (the ice cube is cold), and extrinsic to perception (numbers are what we say they are, the color red is this thing we agree is red). Agreement definitions are like driving... The lines on the road don't tell you how to drive, where to go, or how fast to get there... They tell you where you can do those things safely, next to other people and be understood. Language is the same thing, if you stay within the lines of language association, conventions, and use good definition, we all understand each other, by proxy... This association is done before the self can even emerge, which is why early childhood development is the most important time to use good language around developing children.... Free will is a misunderstood concept, we don't have autonomous active control of the machine that is the self, as you point out near 12:00 ish. That we are subject to the needs of our body system, which our brains trick us into taking care of, all the time. We do have limited choice in how we paint the picture to ourselves, but not if we drink the water or not drink the water. There is only one outcome, homeostasis or not. But we are also self replicating and that is part of the existential. Death, living, reproducing, value, morality, the good... Become honestly worth speaking about. They may be arbitrary, but so is all of everything using symbols... We can still extract useful tools for having a more prepared conversation, from this attempt at starting to have the conversation. 😊
Hi Robert, you have added some interesting points to this discussion and I like your examples. I often explore the etymology of words and the connection between language and culture (linguistics?). I wonder if, in the process of creating western culture we distanced ourselves from our bodies and sensory experiencing - became far too cerebral? I read 'the spell of the sensuous' by David Abram and was quite influenced by that. It was definitely one of the books that helped me re-connect to my body. Thanks again
@@suddenlyautistic Yeah, I have trouble seeing the social implications, but I'm not unaware... I can see that it's both. Body language and oxytocin expressions are also trouble for me. I guess that's why I'm so caught up with language as an individual experience. I guess since everything is imprinted onto us, it has to be the social first.
Although your video is more focused on a reaction to Dr. Syl, you do mention your interest in neuroscience, I imagine as it relates to autism especially. May I suggest then, an interesting video by Dr. Greg Siegle, who is a neuroscientist and is autistic himself, titled “Locked In and Screaming: What Neuroscience Can Say About Autistic Inertia.” (I won't put up the link because my last comment on your channel was deleted, I think by TH-cam.) Right before the 17 minute mark of this video, Siegle starts talking about a 2017 study that really shocked me. What they did was make both autistic and neurotypicals look at pictures of human faces while under a brain scanner and compare their responses. Whereas the neurotypicals had basically no response, the autistic people's amygdalas all had highly reactive responses. And this happened no matter what kind of expression the faces in the pictures showed, whether fearful, angry, or neutral. Since an overreactive amygdala causes anxiety, this study explains the plight of autistics: we get triggered just by looking at a human face! This puts autistics into an immediate and permanent disadvantage relative to the neurotypicals. How can autistics properly function in a neurotypical society if just looking at a human face sets off our amygdala? Is it any wonder that so many of us need to isolate so often? All we want is for our amygdala to leave us in peace for a while. And this is impossible even if we are merely looking at a human face.
I find your insights valuable and very astute, they help me articulate my own understanding. I’m having difficulty communicating atm but I am still watching all your videos. 😊
another wonderful video. I also found myself annoyed with Dr. Syl. I understand that he is still in training and has not had the time to develop every needed skill but its frustrating to hear that lack of validation especially with the fact that it can take decades and tons of time, money, and development of skills to even stand up for yourself to seek help. Healthcare is a luxury product and it hurts to pay money you don't have to be humiliated and dehumanized. I find western medicine falls short in that it tries isolate and objectify everything when we are systems not objects. Nothing exists in a vacuum yet (neurotypical?) people walk around with very fragmented knowledge about how the various systems interact within themselves and other systems and then use that ignorance to validate the perceptions that cause them the least cognitive dissonance. I feel like walking around with ADHD and Autism is like playing a game with no fog of war and then being stuck in decision paralogous because you understand how much there is to account for to be able to make the "correct" move. Like everyone is playing checkers and wondering why you take so long to make a decision and then are confused by your move when you preserve the game you are playing is chess. Anyway great video, keep it up!
Thank you so much for sharing and yes, your analogies make so much sense for me too. I also struggle with the reductionist approach of western medicine. I think that approach would have really appealed to me as a younger person but now I’ve got a bit more life experience it frustrates me greatly.
I wrote a superlong comment on his video. I felt you were rambling a lot in your video and I could explain it a little clearer - turns out I can't. You already made your explanation as clear as can be :D I also felt triggered by his video for all the same reasons. Mainly because this is a person that is an influencer. As in he is in a position where he will influence the lives of hundreds and thousands of people over his career. But like him I wish there was an objective reality you could just magically get. Because then we would all know if I could achieve more in my life. I think I can't but people keep telling me I can. And when I try it just makes everything worse and I feel that I can't. so are my feeling right or do I just make an excuse? Should I own a fast car and a big watch and live up to every mans potential? Or is it totally cool if I am a nonbinary recluse that's just poor. I would love to have a machine that tells me that if I tried harder it would actually make me feel better instead of putting me back where I started.
I LOVE this comment, thanks so much for your contribution. I don't know that there will be definitive answers, as we are more 'generalist reactactrons' than specific machines. For me, as each year goes by, I'm more inclined towards expanding my parameters of self-reflection. Rather than think inside my container of self, I'm shifting my focus towards the relational. So I focus on the interaction between myself and other people/ places/ objects as in: How does this feel, how does this function, what are we creating/ achieving/ exploring. Easy for me to say now though as I'm at a time in my life where that type of thinking and being is easy and somewhat expected. I don't think I would have had a bar of it when I was in my 20's as I was much more focused on striving forward whatever the cost.
Triggered me as well. Back on the 80’s my sister was told she was a refrigerator mother and that is why her son was autistic. Normally find his videos well balanced,
Oh that's somewhat comforting for me to hear although I am not happy that you were also triggered. I'm sure many of us in mental health / neurodiversity world are somewhat hypervigilant around relational threats and this certainly felt like a threat to me. Let's hope we're wrong and he returns to his more calming and accepting self. I'm sure he will
@@suddenlyautisticI hope he deals with coming to terms with some patients are going to be rude no matter the excuse. My diagnosis at age 61 was a bittersweet experience and reframing was key to going forward. Yes my world was different after diagnosis.
@@shawnaford5540 I’m sorry to hear that and have experienced that also. There’s a huge grief that comes along with that level of invalidation and I hope you feel better supported now.
@@suddenlyautistic Thank you. I am fairly realistic in that every new encounter with a health care provider will be a risk. After years of a missed diagnosis of autism and ME/CFS and being told it is depression. I am still a little bitter. And just glad that these diagnoses came from the same clinic. The psychologist for the autism. And with therapy learned how to express myself better that led to the psychiatrist seeing my fatigue as not just depression. Your videos are very helpful as I am less than 2 years knowing my Autistic label. It has been ultimately freeing in finding out I am not stupid, lazy and all the labels I acquired and believed. Now I am confident in exploring my differences. And my friends that do not understand how important this label is for me is a lesson in understanding and accepting differences in others.
Ii hadn't heard of it pitched like that but I certainly so understand that concept and feel it very much. That way of being is how I' accepted the tenuous grip on life some of my loved ones have. Living with such reality is definitely easier when we dissolve our 'self'. I feel I'm often too ready to do this though. There's a balance point one has to reach to be functionally present and engaged with life. I'm ok with that. Thanks
This is why I don’t like socialising, it’s not even miscommunication, I just don’t like the stuff most people say.
I think that's a big part of it for me too.
Realizing I’m autistic fundamentally altered my perception of my identity, my understanding of people, relationships, interactions-basically the entirety of my experience and interpretation of the reality in which I exist. The fact that nothing has *objectively* changed is actually a significant part of what makes that realization process so overwhelming-because I have to somehow reconcile my fundamentally altered perception of an unchanged reality.
Of course I don’t have to convince you of this. Clearly I’m just as triggered.
29:28 He’s projecting. Plain and simple.
Re. objectivity-there are a variety of ways of defining it, the one I think is most applicable in this case is: "objective" is the plural of "subjective".
Now that is a smart definition. I really like it. I'm taking it as in 'if the collective is in agreement then it's right'. Is that it?
Also, I think Dr. Syl's view is based on a model in which we start with a "standard human", then a variety of things might happen to that person. Diagnoses are labels for how people have been "damaged" by things that have happened to them. Psychiatrists are people who fix / reduce / mitigate that "damage".
I think that's a reasonable model in some cases-that's basically my view of depression in myself. It isn't inherent to me, it's something that's happened to me, and I would be pleased if someone fixed it. Viewing depression as a permanent feature / identity / limit, on the other hand, would imply that I reject any possibility of healing.
Of course, in this model an autistic person is also a "damaged" neurotypical person. The model doesn't have room for different kinds of minds, only for standard-issue minds that have been "damaged"-so we can't *actually* *be* *different* in any fundamental or permanent way. Except that we are, and people who do not realize this consistently misunderstand us and invalidate our experiences.
@@suddenlyautistic Yes. Or, at least, the collective believes itself to be right.
@aspidoscelistigris that is gold. Thank you so much for sharing. They think, therefore, they are.
Thoughts...
Check out the: Other minds problem.
Even when we do phenomenology of self perception, it is taking place in our heads, and with language that must already be understood. Everything is a projection from our selves (not that it's a hologram or divination, just that we are never outside of ourselves except for the sensory space allowed to us... By our selves experiencing that outside). That will never be untrue.
But language still works because we have built it to do what we expect it to do, accidentally or pedagogically, doesn't necessary matter. (Popular society and virality, or meta cognition and engineered curriculum)
We can get around the problem by using language association, we start with the simple things... Like, an ice cube is cold. While we pass an ice cube around.
This is an over simple example, but it makes the point. Perception is not measurable either. Which is why something like sensation must be materially defined _between_ us. It exists as the sensation of a shared experience. That intangible part, you speak of, is yours alone, but we can engineer experiences that trigger similar response pathways in each of us.
There is no, I see a different red than you... Cool, but that doesn't matter in the scheme of agreement definitions. 620-750nm light is red... Perception becomes irrelevant in that case.
Intrinsic to perception (the ice cube is cold), and extrinsic to perception (numbers are what we say they are, the color red is this thing we agree is red).
Agreement definitions are like driving... The lines on the road don't tell you how to drive, where to go, or how fast to get there... They tell you where you can do those things safely, next to other people and be understood. Language is the same thing, if you stay within the lines of language association, conventions, and use good definition, we all understand each other, by proxy...
This association is done before the self can even emerge, which is why early childhood development is the most important time to use good language around developing children....
Free will is a misunderstood concept, we don't have autonomous active control of the machine that is the self, as you point out near 12:00 ish. That we are subject to the needs of our body system, which our brains trick us into taking care of, all the time. We do have limited choice in how we paint the picture to ourselves, but not if we drink the water or not drink the water. There is only one outcome, homeostasis or not.
But we are also self replicating and that is part of the existential. Death, living, reproducing, value, morality, the good... Become honestly worth speaking about. They may be arbitrary, but so is all of everything using symbols... We can still extract useful tools for having a more prepared conversation, from this attempt at starting to have the conversation. 😊
Hi Robert, you have added some interesting points to this discussion and I like your examples. I often explore the etymology of words and the connection between language and culture (linguistics?). I wonder if, in the process of creating western culture we distanced ourselves from our bodies and sensory experiencing - became far too cerebral? I read 'the spell of the sensuous' by David Abram and was quite influenced by that. It was definitely one of the books that helped me re-connect to my body. Thanks again
@@suddenlyautistic Yeah, I have trouble seeing the social implications, but I'm not unaware... I can see that it's both. Body language and oxytocin expressions are also trouble for me. I guess that's why I'm so caught up with language as an individual experience. I guess since everything is imprinted onto us, it has to be the social first.
@@suddenlyautistic I guess that's the part I'm missing... I hate being misunderstood, while seemingly really good at interpreting others. 🙄
@Robert_McGarry_Poems sounds like you are on the right path for you
Although your video is more focused on a reaction to Dr. Syl, you do mention your interest in neuroscience, I imagine as it relates to autism especially. May I suggest then, an interesting video by Dr. Greg Siegle, who is a neuroscientist and is autistic himself, titled “Locked In and Screaming: What Neuroscience Can Say About Autistic Inertia.” (I won't put up the link because my last comment on your channel was deleted, I think by TH-cam.)
Right before the 17 minute mark of this video, Siegle starts talking about a 2017 study that really shocked me. What they did was make both autistic and neurotypicals look at pictures of human faces while under a brain scanner and compare their responses.
Whereas the neurotypicals had basically no response, the autistic people's amygdalas all had highly reactive responses. And this happened no matter what kind of expression the faces in the pictures showed, whether fearful, angry, or neutral.
Since an overreactive amygdala causes anxiety, this study explains the plight of autistics: we get triggered just by looking at a human face! This puts autistics into an immediate and permanent disadvantage relative to the neurotypicals. How can autistics properly function in a neurotypical society if just looking at a human face sets off our amygdala?
Is it any wonder that so many of us need to isolate so often? All we want is for our amygdala to leave us in peace for a while. And this is impossible even if we are merely looking at a human face.
That's very interesting. I've no idea where your last comment went either by the way. I'll look this study up once I'm feeling better.
I find your insights valuable and very astute, they help me articulate my own understanding. I’m having difficulty communicating atm but I am still watching all your videos. 😊
another wonderful video. I also found myself annoyed with Dr. Syl. I understand that he is still in training and has not had the time to develop every needed skill but its frustrating to hear that lack of validation especially with the fact that it can take decades and tons of time, money, and development of skills to even stand up for yourself to seek help. Healthcare is a luxury product and it hurts to pay money you don't have to be humiliated and dehumanized. I find western medicine falls short in that it tries isolate and objectify everything when we are systems not objects. Nothing exists in a vacuum yet (neurotypical?) people walk around with very fragmented knowledge about how the various systems interact within themselves and other systems and then use that ignorance to validate the perceptions that cause them the least cognitive dissonance. I feel like walking around with ADHD and Autism is like playing a game with no fog of war and then being stuck in decision paralogous because you understand how much there is to account for to be able to make the "correct" move. Like everyone is playing checkers and wondering why you take so long to make a decision and then are confused by your move when you preserve the game you are playing is chess. Anyway great video, keep it up!
Thank you so much for sharing and yes, your analogies make so much sense for me too. I also struggle with the reductionist approach of western medicine. I think that approach would have really appealed to me as a younger person but now I’ve got a bit more life experience it frustrates me greatly.
I wrote a superlong comment on his video. I felt you were rambling a lot in your video and I could explain it a little clearer - turns out I can't. You already made your explanation as clear as can be :D
I also felt triggered by his video for all the same reasons. Mainly because this is a person that is an influencer. As in he is in a position where he will influence the lives of hundreds and thousands of people over his career.
But like him I wish there was an objective reality you could just magically get. Because then we would all know if I could achieve more in my life. I think I can't but people keep telling me I can. And when I try it just makes everything worse and I feel that I can't. so are my feeling right or do I just make an excuse? Should I own a fast car and a big watch and live up to every mans potential? Or is it totally cool if I am a nonbinary recluse that's just poor. I would love to have a machine that tells me that if I tried harder it would actually make me feel better instead of putting me back where I started.
I LOVE this comment, thanks so much for your contribution. I don't know that there will be definitive answers, as we are more 'generalist reactactrons' than specific machines. For me, as each year goes by, I'm more inclined towards expanding my parameters of self-reflection. Rather than think inside my container of self, I'm shifting my focus towards the relational. So I focus on the interaction between myself and other people/ places/ objects as in: How does this feel, how does this function, what are we creating/ achieving/ exploring. Easy for me to say now though as I'm at a time in my life where that type of thinking and being is easy and somewhat expected. I don't think I would have had a bar of it when I was in my 20's as I was much more focused on striving forward whatever the cost.
Triggered me as well. Back on the 80’s my sister was told she was a refrigerator mother and that is why her son was autistic.
Normally find his videos well balanced,
Oh that's somewhat comforting for me to hear although I am not happy that you were also triggered. I'm sure many of us in mental health / neurodiversity world are somewhat hypervigilant around relational threats and this certainly felt like a threat to me. Let's hope we're wrong and he returns to his more calming and accepting self. I'm sure he will
@@suddenlyautisticI hope he deals with coming to terms with some patients are going to be rude no matter the excuse.
My diagnosis at age 61 was a bittersweet experience and reframing was key to going forward. Yes my world was different after diagnosis.
The people in my life that said I was the same person were the ones that did not accept my diagnosis and told me that directly.
@@shawnaford5540 I’m sorry to hear that and have experienced that also. There’s a huge grief that comes along with that level of invalidation and I hope you feel better supported now.
@@suddenlyautistic Thank you.
I am fairly realistic in that every new encounter with a health care provider will be a risk.
After years of a missed diagnosis of autism and ME/CFS and being told it is depression. I am still a little bitter. And just glad that these diagnoses came from the same clinic. The psychologist for the autism. And with therapy learned how to express myself better that led to the psychiatrist seeing my fatigue as not just depression.
Your videos are very helpful as I am less than 2 years knowing my Autistic label. It has been ultimately freeing in finding out I am not stupid, lazy and all the labels I acquired and believed.
Now I am confident in exploring my differences. And my friends that do not understand how important this label is for me is a lesson in understanding and accepting differences in others.
Have you heard of Radical Non Duality? Give Jim Newman a try 🤔😁☯
Ii hadn't heard of it pitched like that but I certainly so understand that concept and feel it very much. That way of being is how I' accepted the tenuous grip on life some of my loved ones have. Living with such reality is definitely easier when we dissolve our 'self'. I feel I'm often too ready to do this though. There's a balance point one has to reach to be functionally present and engaged with life. I'm ok with that. Thanks