All right, just going to clarify some stuff for people who keep asking, or discuss other potential changes that could follow: 1. The ships all look too similar: Maybe I'm biased, but for the most part, I think it's actually just the Monoreme/Bireme that look similar to the Hemiolia/Trihemiolia. The others are all pretty distinct. We're going to give people some time to get used to our changes, and if readability really is an issue with these ships, then we'll look into doing something about it. 2. It seems really complex, what's the point?: Right now, water maps are very unpopular with the player base. There's a number of potential reasons for this, but we choose to focus on how simple it is, compared to land, as it seemed like a significant possible cause. As explained in the video, there's a much more fleshed out tech tree now, with units filling a number of different roles. And maybe we did go overboard ;), but I think that people just need to try it out, and see if it actually is that problematic once they get their head around it. There's less units than on land all up, although more from a single building. Basically, I think this is about letting people get used to it, understanding the nuances of the naval combat doesn't come just from watching a video showcasing a lot of changes in a short time. 3. There should be more resources on water, making it more important: Totally agree. We would like to add sources of both gold, and possibly wood as well. Our problem here is mostly that we don't have any good random map scripters working for us, or we would make these kind of changes. 4. The fishing ship and builder boat should have been one thing: From a functional perspective, this wasn't possible in the editor. They also do have fairly different roles that we wanted for them. The fishing ship collects food, and the builder boat not only constructs various naval defenses, it can also repair ships, making it more of a viable option nearer to actual combat, to fix up your fleet. 5. Why would you make a Port when the Shipyard is so much better?: Because the Port is the only naval building you have available in the Iron (Dark) Age, and it's a prerequisite building for the Shipyard, which isn't unlocked until the second age. I think that should cover most points, if I notice people are bringing up something else a lot, I'll add it to the list.
What kind of coding languages/tools would scripters need if they wanted to contribute? I’m a Mac user so likely can’t, but I could put the word out if it’s helpful! 😃
@@JohnFallot I don't know what the scripting language is, it's some AoE2 random map script thing, if you're interested, there should be a lot of information around.
Not even three minutes in, and both the concepts of sea defenses, and an expansion beyond the usual rock-paper-scissors is something I truly wish we could see in the main game! Imagine what it could bring to sea maps and sea civs.
All it would need is a floating market and you would be able to build your entire civ on water (by selling food to get the other resources). And then your base is visited by Kevin Costner
I'm fine with sea towers, but sea walls and gates I'm not too sure of. It kinda destroys some of the distinction between naval combat and land combat. Maybe if they cost a LOT more, or were extremely fragile, and not simply the sea equivalent of land walls and gates
@@ArawnOfAnnwn There could also be something akin to the distinction between palisade walls and stone/fortified walls when it comes to sea walls. The first could be a simple chain with occasional anchors that would halt any ship passage, maybe even cause some damage to ships that bump it if we wanted to get fancy. But they'd be fairly easily destroyed, but maybe only by construction ships...not sure on that. Then there'd be what we see (sea) with the current sea walls with stone/earthen foundations that go down to the sea floor. It seems (seams) like these should take a long time to construct, and only from adjacent land and built tile by tile going out from there as though one is building the underwater dyke slowly out from existing land or dyke. It would be built faster in shallows/swamp. Lots of ways it could go...
@@ArawnOfAnnwn I feel like any defenses are balanced just fine with cannon galleon/demo ships. I'd lose towers in favor of walls/gates honestly. And I like the palisade chain idea. Neat low tier wall. As for regular walls, they seem to be floating on a dock-type structure, so I say build them wherever
Games do not suck or stagnate because of lack of talent and creatitivity among devs, they suck and stagnage mostly because of dogshit management and greedy ass investors.
I love the concept and implementation of boarding ships. It works so well as a parallel to monks without being the exact same and has a perfectly reasonable historical basis, too. Also, the ability to construct sea walls and gates is such a nice use of a feature from campaigns/the scenario editor and adds more tactical depth along with it. It all seems very well thought out. Props to the mod team!
Now THIS is just mind-boggling. 🤯 The fact the entire IDEA for the overhaul of the water gameplay came not from the official studios, but from a very small group of modders really speaks to me how there are countless talented minds out there, unheard of and just waiting to be found and have their chance to shine! Thank you for doing this video, Spirit! And I hope you're planning on covering this mod more in the future. Possibly play a few quick Skirmishes once it's fully completed or with more variety than its current build. Love your content, man! Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! 👍
Just the fact that you don't NEED demolition ships is great, they are fun to use as tactical/strategic weapons (like petards) but as a counter unit were never fun nor efficient
@@AURON2401 gunpowder was invented by the Chinese as early as the 9th century, and is proven to have been used by them in warfare by the 12th century. We know for a fact that the mongols used gunpowder in the 14th century, against both Europeans and in India. The ottoman empire used gunpowder by the 15th century, as did India. The Europeans were the latest to adopt it, but they too were using hand cannons and rudimentary artillery cannons by the 1500's and 1600's, which is still considered the late medieval era. Gunpowder is a medieval invention.
@@praevasc4299 Demolition ships actually did exist before gunpowder. Naturally they weren't explosive, but people could still sail infernos into the enemy fleets. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Tyre_(332_BC), read the part about the siege, it literally references what could be taken as a demo ship.
a lot of this reminds me of how aoe3 water works, ideas that are already proven to work, the boarding being a conversion meanwhile is an excellent new idea
I really hope AoE devs watch your videos and take some ideas from this as i LOVE the idea of a monk-type water unit and a builder-type water unit as well! Keep up the great content SOTL!
Water is an important part of AOE2 and maps like continental have made some of the most memorable 4v4 team games of my over 20 years playing this game. Continental, open but defensible. Land but water civs can shine too. Is Water unpopular because it is neglected? Or is Water neglected because it is unpopular?
Water is unpopular because it is neglected. The rock paper scissors formula currently in place gets boring very quickly. If aoe2 had as much variety on water as this mod I think water maps would be much more popular.
Water is unpopular because neglected. The rps gets old way too quickly and because it's not universally balanced like land, or there is no way to build on water, games get snowbally VERY quickly to a point it becomes impossible to get back map control (Especially against good water civs) once you lose it early on
The problem with water in almost any RTS game ever made is that it's a sideshow to the main game, so it has at most some resources in it, AOE3 had a lot of cool water stuff in it, the shipments allowed you to attempt a water comeback, a type of ship was able to land and act like a production building, and in the water there was gold and food, and treasures, though what it could use is building, more unit types, and terrain mattering, from shallow water being important to movement, rocks being a danger, to even just currents influencing movement speed in certain directions
This is quite well made and shows how naval warfare could be as nuanced as war on land is. I love the fact that they introduced naval "monks" (never thought of that) and of course naval "villagers"/"builders". I think they missed a trick by not updating the naval trade aspect of the game. However, as much as I love this, I don't know if I really want it. The game is soo complex already with so many civilizations, bonuses, unique units and maps. I think my head would explode making sense of it all if we introduced such a complex naval tech tree.
"I love the fact that they introduced naval "monks" (never thought of that)" Funny you say that, because boarding ships were in the original design plan of the AoE2, but they cut it out because they were awkward.
All it needs is a "floating market". It only trains Trade Cogs and trades resources. And a water-based Town Center (think Waterworld). Then make the shipyard, dock and floating market and floating TC buildable on the sea as well as the coast. And then Kevin Costner shows up.
It's almost like they listened to the players and decided to do something actually good. Love the split into ports and shipyards. Also feel like everyone should start with a port by default on water maps (we do start with TCs after all)
this is a welcome step! Still, I think a big player is missing: the effect of the landscape, which is something important in land strategies. For example, deep water could have some effect on ships (it can damage scout ships and other small ships, can increase ships speed), while low water can reduce big ships speed
I honestly wish this were an aspect in the game on land. Units should go slower uphill, faster downhill, slower through shallows and swamp. Perhaps siege could even get bogged down and stuck in swamps...It'd probably make it all way too complicated, but as a separate game mode, maybe. Even farms could be more or less fertile and productive based on where they're placed. More fertile on grass, less so on sand, more so within so close to a pond, most fertile in swamps.
As a kid playing AoE2 in the late 90's/early 00's I used to love playing on water maps, especially islands so to me this mod looks incredible! Like you said I would love for this to be made official!
If you're referring to the graphic for our Juggernauts, I actually had to make that in Photoshop by sticking together the AoE1 Juggernaut and AoE1 Catapult.
Wow now that is awesome. New maps tailored to this overhaul could be real fun to explore, something like where you'd start with a dock and a small wall around it, maybe some natural water "chokepoints" to give you a safe starting fishboom. I want this to be in the game already I'm ready for team islands all day baby.
Hopefully the official developers take inspiration from them or directly hire the modders. Because the overhaul is interesting to say the least. Obviously is not perfect (I guess the designs are interesting and mostly historical accurate but can be somewhat confused pretty easily at first). Anyway, it is not a bad start.
100% agree with splitting out the dock into an economic and military building (port and shipyard). This is my biggest problem with playing water. It's such a pain to send both fishing ships to fish and military ships to the front without accidentally swapping the two.
I think the Galleass could be a cool unique unit for the Italians. No joke my vision for an Italian Gallese was basically the thirisadai. I still think a Galleass could be a cool imperial age water unit. My idea is that it is a cannon galleon that is bigger, slower with better range. However it also functions as a transport ship and the more units you have garrisoned increases the amount of cannon fire. Kind of like the keep except on water. It is also kind of a risk reward mechanic because if you send it into combat with units gairosned in it and it get's killed you lose those units. Also an onager on water would be a cool way to shake things up.
This is AMAZING! Just 20 sec after hearing of the construction ship and im sold. The ability to add sea defenses shakes me to my nerd core. If AOE2 added this, it would revolutionize map possibilities and strategies, bringing back old players, as well as new blood RTS junkies. A Change like this would ensure AOE2 would thrive for another 20 yrs. Bring these developers on board ASAP!!! Edit: i will say though, after watching the gameplay footage, the counters appear a little too strong. Like, not take a single hit strong. Still, these could be tweaked im sure.
That is very interesting. What a revamp. I hate water fights because it's just 2 units mainly, and you have to dump resources into them to just have more than the enemy.
I like water fights that are coupled with land fights. Great way to balance immobility of navy on land with vulnerability of land units against other land units.
I feel making the masts very distinguished between types is probably the lowest hanging fruit, but im sure the modders making this much good stuff already considered it. Hope there is change here as aoe2 has excellent art direction to show progression/distinctions (fav for me is knight line and siege weapons).
I thought the same when I saw a knight the first time in DE. I couldn't tell what unit it was. It requires time to get used to reading new units in the game, so my first tip is to give it some time. But I see your problem though. A lot of the problem is the ancient naming too. All the ships end on -ieme, and that's confusing. If this is to be incorporated into Aoe2 (which I really would like to see) they would have to work on readablility. Definetly doable.
@@light_david7 i remember facing the -ieme problem in Rome TW. Appreciated that the game had bigger and angrier looking ships for the unit cards to help with reading.
I personally don't hate water maps, but most people do. And it's solely because they're not thorough enough. This video shows exactly what is needed to make water maps loveable.
Like many of the ideas of the mod, especially water defenses and boarding, yet feel like some of these abilities should be featured in the basic ship types instead of adding more single function ships. The first combination to come to mind is merging the fishing ship and construction ship to make it essentially the water counterpart to villagers.
Agreed. This is cool, but I do not think it needs to be made this complicated with this many different units. AoE4 combined scout/fishing ship by giving them a bunch of vision (they also repair). I would combine the fishing with the construction ship, and combine the boarding ship with the transport ship, for starters.
It would be so cool if the real game had the ability to build sea walls, sea gates, and sea towers. Would definitely make water maps more fun and interesting!
There is some really good stuff in here that many games could learn from. Few RTS games treat naval battles as anything more than an afterthought. An interesting concept (although maybe misplaced in this game) would be units on transport ships being able to fight normally - melee units can repel boarders or board other ships, while archers can attack other ships or any passengers they might be carrying. But it would require ships to have enough visible space for at least a part of its crew (some might be below deck), and would also need to account for one potential boarder for each soldier that would be visible (for the sake of simplicity, you could have boarding parties fight one-on-one).
The siege type ships could maybe have their own dock. Maybe a drydock because they are so large/heavy. And the ability for builder ships to make more docks would be nice
@ 1:12 Awesome PUN in the text there, SoTL! 👍😁 But, I would expect nothing less of you, sir. Hats off. 😊 I love the Boarding Ship. That's a logical, yet brilliant idea. "Water Monk". 😉 So many new Units and interactions for Players to learn. Brilliant! 💎 Thanks, mate! 🙏 M 🦘🏏😎
The egyptian unique transport ship is a thing of beauty. The thing I always loved about the star wars aoe2 clone was there was some truly massive units and buildings and this echoes that. Reminds me of c&c where you see one unit and go "oh shit", its legitimately intimidating to look at
yeh those AT AT walkers for imperials (assault class I think?) that could carry units and dealt serious damage. Also driodekas being as big a threat as in the movies!
My favorites from that game (in terms of big things): 1) Explosion of fortresses 2) Naboo Air Cruiser 3) republic artillery and tanks 4) empire ATAT 5) anti aircraft towers (super OP)
I like the ideas all around ! but one of the problem I see, is that with so many different ships, it might be hard to differenciate them, they would need to realy play around with the colors and shapes of the sail to make it easy to understand what you are fighting
My problem with water maps is wood sources. Forests require large amounts of land mass compared to the other resources, and are thereby far more limited than other resources on water maps, especially since there is a focus on wood heavy units in ships. Resource starvation happens a lot in team games on water maps. If there was a way to change what the trade cog collects between wood and gold, allowing your economy to be more focused on water, that would increase the gameplay options for water maps immensely. And, it would have no impact on the normal games.
One solution is to make trees in the middle fo the forrest have a lot more wood and maybe more resistant to siege to make it less viable to just use them to chop through everything to get to your enemy/get more space to build.
@@namename2215 Yeah. Probably not a thing the engine can do, but imagine if the driftwood patches could form in or near areas where there had been a lot of ships sank, like Phil was saying? Huge naval battles causing the nearest coastlines to get new driftwood sources to grow?
This looks incredible. Just when you would think that AOE2 can't get much better, this would take it to the next level for sure!! I hope something like this comes to the game.
Hear me out. A completely water map. Ship wrecks replace trees. Fishing ships are villagers. Sunken treasure for gold. Stone can be Atlantis style ruins. The dock becomes like a town centre and then this mod fills in the rest ie military units and defensive buildings
Funny that the "Boarding Galley" and "Armored Boarding Galley" were on AoE2 Alpha but it was cut. The unit had the Heavy Transport Ship appearance from AoE1 as a placeholder.
I think what would work best for water, instead of a triangle counter, is a pentagram counter. Aka, 5 ships (none are demolition ships, thats the 6th shiptype), and each ship counters 2 of the others. Maybe one hard and the other softly. Not sure about the exact balance though.
Everything about this mod is great and congratulations to the team for successfully doing it! I do think water maps need to have more wood and stone, unless of course the entire match focuses only on naval warfare. An idea I have in mind is, Trade Cogs providing the player X amount of wood per "cycle". If not, adjust the price of wood in the Market, although idk how much tinkering is needed to keep the balance.
Love the mod! Had some great fun with a friend of mine but we think that there needs to be a lot more balancing. So keep up the work! People are excited for this. Also, am I the only one that is annoyed by the AoE1 sound of the builders hammering? I wish they would keep the sound sample from AoE2.
This is crazy! From graphics to concept design to sound design to resource balance, etc. If the devs of this mod are not getting paid, then this is even more crazier!
It's nice to hear the original game's music. Great video, Spirit. ¿Does anyone else thinks that, unless the Rome DLC is the officialization of this mod, it will be overshadowed by it?
(10:20) - You're Canadian, but are you sure you're not half-American too? 'Qwince-Uh-Remes'... No, no 'Qwin-Qwehr-Eemes' - Quinqueremes. (14:05) - Wait you have REDEMPTION too, haha awesome! But overall I have always wanted more sea wall and defence at sea in this game. This is fantastic, thanks for showing it and to those who created it.
super interesting video. I think this amount of ships would be a bit too much for competitive aoe but I'd love to see some of them implemented, also the ability to build water walls and water towers would be so cool to have in the actual game and might actually make water more balanced.
The best hope is the AoE team seas this mod, and goes yep water map rework, and takes this as a base adding more unique versions of ships. like imagine the turtle ship getting an immunity to boarding ships, and side cannons for example. Each current unique ship can be given a unique upgrade as well.
WOW! Now water could be interesting if all this apply to the regular game. I think it's just all we wanted for make water amused (except for the awkward movement of the units, but i think that is imposible to solve with this graphic engine). Amazing job!
Splitting the dock into multiple buildings is a really great idea, gives more room for techs and units. As one of the few enjoyers of water-maps, I do admit they are way too linear in how they play out. I hope the devs are taking notes!
Love this mod. Would still take me a while to learn to love water and I don't think it solves the fundamental problem of snowballing water because without investing a lot early into naval fortifications you can still lose a fight and then get cleared and dunked off water because, unlike the land, the baseline creation building (TC) has no defensive capacity. I think the one thing this is missing is making all Docks also have an attack.
I wish land combat was more fleshed out as well. For instance, only having 2 types of infantry units at the barracks is ridiculous, when infantry were by far the most common troops in the middle ages, and there were many types of them.
Some ideas are cool (the port and shipyard disctinction is a huge plus, juggernaut and boarding ships miss a lot) but I'm not totally sold. You have something like 5 ships that are long distance attack ships with an attack bonus on something. Differentiate the ships in lategame might be pretty hard and messy. All these upgrades might be a big ressource sinkhole, and the fact warship guerrila enables you to get only a few ressources (fishes, that are more used to power land warfare) on most maps makes it useless to have such an intensive water game design. On the maps where water is the center of the attention, it is mandatory to get water control, but then again you don't gain much strategic value other than taking some island spots to make a castle, or take a gold ... Which is again a land mechanic. I'd love for water to give a more rewarding gameplay, with an emphasis on shallow and deep water (like the elevation damage boost, deep fish giving more food ?) , something like coral reefs to get gold on water and would be fought over in islands games, constructor ships that can map both shipyards and ports, maybe a small castle, unkillable neutral merchants trading posts... I mean, real strategic points and means to fight over them
What a great mod! A quick note if you'd like to make some water maps - neutral sea trade points like on AoE4 maps would add even more layer to 1v1 in a good way imo!
I love this mod, last time you told us about it, I downloaded and had a lot o fun. Great improvement on ships. The only thing that bother me is the size of the houses looks huge.
Yet another revision of Age of Empires 2, unfortunately for my spare time - it looks amazing! I guess all my life I will be playing Doom and Age of Empires 2 variants :D
I will like to see a mechanic to get back into water, maybe some kind of dock castle or something, or boats that you can build on land and rapidly deploy, in a water map if you loose water its game over, no matter how good your land eco/lead is
This is such an amazing idea and implementation!! This mod is already amazing, this simply takes it to a completely different level!! My only complain is that I'm not a fan of water walls... I wish it worked differently or at least looked differently (like chains or something).
this might sound retarded & i hope u dont mind me...but if we went with the chains idea, the building cost would include iron...and i dont see any iron being mined in AOE2, so maybe thats why they cost & look similar to land wall :v
The main problem with such massive water tree: you have to invest more in it so you won't have nice upgraded land army afterwards or vice versa (since you need to invest really a lot to switch youself to water/land and probably lose the game in process). It's not a problem only for big water maps but drain a lot of from hybrid maps. Docks/shipyards is another really big problem for this: if you are not at water already then you need to build a lot of shypyeards to retake the water (as in unmmoded game) but then you need to build extra building to benefit from it (and since it's a gather point - probably not 1 or 2 but some of it). Idk from historical perspective but what if whole water thing is only available since 2nd age if you want to do it this way? It will add some complexity to the decitions and will remove no-brain solution in dark age. Cause the meta atm is "build some fishing ships no matter what in dark age if possible cause otherwise you will be far behind".
I had an idea of how I would change the water balance. It also had the Dock and Shipyard separation, but with basic attack ships (Scout, Fire Galley, and 'archer-ships'). Shipyards would come in in the third age and produce bigger ships that would take multiple population, but are very powerful.
Really wouldn't mind to seeing some of those concepts inspire some water overhauls in the original game. Well even if they never happen playing with that on the mod will already be plenty of fun
Love videos on modded stuff, and this mod's water dynamic is crazy interesting. I wish basegame was this deep for water, it's a shame water maps don't get their fair shake.
I wish it was deeper for land game play as well. Only having 2 types of infantry units at the barracks is ridiculous, when infantry were the most common troops in the middle ages, and there were many types of them.
A lot of this I'd like to see introduced into the main game, especially the seperate eco and military docks (the current dock UI is a mess and very confusing to new players!), and the ability to construct defences at sea. As for the ship types, I'd probably only want three in feudal (galley, fire and maybe a ram/scout ship). With more ship types, demo ships could be pushed back to post-chemistry so long as an effective water triangle is mantained early on. The Age 3 boarding a seige ships are a great idea and I'd love to see those included!
I love the use of Age of Empires I music, the Definitive Edition AoE ship models and sounds aside the original ships (Elite Scout is AoE "War Galley", and the Juggernauts are "Catapult Trireme/Juggernaut" in AoE, the other ships seem to be unique models) all in all a very cool nod to the original game and a cool looking mod 🙂
Actually, if you check again, our fire ships are custom models based on AoE1. I made our Juggernaut by sticking together the AoE1 Juggernaut and the AoE1 Catapult. We've also used the AoE1 Scout Ship and War Galley (I think that's what they are called), as the second and third units in the scout line. But yeah, all the others are custom models.
Persians 500 BC Navy: Triremes Charge ability that causes impact damage when at speed + fires ballista bolts , as well as transport units Greece/Mykenaeans 1600 BC Navy: Triremes Upgrade : Athenian Triremes (Much stronger and fires faster) Charge ability that causes impact damage when at speed + fires ballista bolts , as well as transport units - Upgrades to Quadrireme (Faster and stronger)Transports 20 units. Wonder: Parthenon Ships gain extra armour + unlocks Quadrireme in dock, but you lose the Spartan hoplite Upgrade OR Acropolis of Sparta / Training grounds/Temple of Artemis Ephesus - Hoplites +2 attack Macedonians 808 BC Navy: If you build the Pharos lighthouse wonder , you gain access to gigantic polyremes - massive 3 masted ships fitted with three large towers,one firing two arrows , one firing a ballista,and one firing a catapult projectile. Can transport 25 units. Triremes Charge ability that causes impact damage when at speed + fires ballista bolts , as well as transport 12 units. Boarding Ship - (Captures enemy vessels, much like a monk but on water.) Attaches itself to an enemy ship, immobilising it and after a few seconds will convert it to your side. (Idea borrowed from the Rome mod) Wonder:Library of Alexandria - all Future techs are researched instantly. OR Pharos lighthouse - +10% Ship movement speed. Allows you and Egyptian allies to construct the gargantuan Polyremes in the dock. Rome 753 BC Navy: UT: Corvus - Adds a corvus to the front of your triremes giving you the ability to act as a boarding ship. The more marines garrisoned in the trireme the faster the enemy ship gets captured. Triremes - Has Charge ability that causes impact damage + fires ballista bolts Charge ability that causes impact damage when at speed + fires ballista bolts , as well as transport 12 units. Liburnians - a type of small galley used for raiding and patrols. Monoremes - Light Scout/support ship, fires 1 Arrow. Upgrades to Penteconter Boarding Ship - (Captures enemy vessels, much like a monk but on water.) Attaches itself to an enemy ship, immobilising it and after a few seconds will convert it to your side. (Idea borrowed from the Rome mod) Carthaginians 814 BC UT2:Carthaginian Marines - Every trireme created is accompanied by 5 Carthaginian Marines. Marines garrisoned inside a inside boarding ship, greatly increases the enemyship capture rate. Team Bonus: Triremes +2 LOS Barracks Swordline - Levies - Citizen short swordsmen -Phrygian Helm Carthaginian Marines Marines have attack boost near ships - Falcata swordsmen Lionhead Helm Sacred Band. Strong Navy UU2:Quinquereme- Large warship that fires both a bolt and a catapult projectile/stone. If Fighting against or alongside Rome, they too gain access to this ship. Transports 20 units. Triremes - Charge ability that causes impact damage + fires ballista bolts , as well as transport 12 units - Upgrades to Quadrireme (Faster and stronger) Boarding Ship - (Captures enemy vessels, much like a monk but on water.) Attaches itself to an enemy ship, immobilising it and after a few seconds will convert it to your side. (Idea borrowed from the Rome mod) Wonder: Cothon Port of Carthage - When built , this port can create + heal + garrison ships fast and has a catapult arch attack.
I grew up with the naval combat of games like Warcraft 2 and Red Alert 1 (and 2) and I enjoyed it so I'm intrigued by attempts to make naval combat a viable field as much as land. As long as it doesn't go the Red Alert 3 angle where half the units can be ships and half the ships can be tanks.
It looks great and many of the ideas in the mode should be implement to other games as well, but I must say from my own expirence. Have to many options to pick is in the end worse than have less to pick.
I'd rotate a few of the sails and add some horizontal stripes or whatever to distinguish some of the ships from each other. Probably not accurate to history at that point but easier to read, certainly. If the mod author could pull it off, if the boarding ship could shoot out lines and then pull a ship together with them that'd bring a whole new level of utility, like a viper from SC2
yeah, the problem with water maps is not just lack of variety, but lack of resources too. water is basically just barren space. people don't like it because they run out of wood. the solution should be to make ships cheaper but ineffective against land units, not even villagers.
Surely interesting and very well made but I think that the only additions really worth adding without making the water gameplay overly complex are the construction ship, scout ship and monk ship.
Age of Mythology has the paper-scissor-rock without self-destruction ship: Arrows beats Hammer; Hammer defeat Siege; and Siege beats Arrow. This mod, anyway, is waaaaaay better. I like it pretty much ♥
I think this mod does water right in the way I think Command & Conquer Red Alert 3 does it right (and is often ignored because of all the camp and bland economy system, I don't blame them) in that water feels more like an extension of land rather than its own, completely different world entirely. Of course, you can't have amphibious units and buildings like in Red Alert 3, but this is the closest thing.
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All right, just going to clarify some stuff for people who keep asking, or discuss other potential changes that could follow:
1. The ships all look too similar: Maybe I'm biased, but for the most part, I think it's actually just the Monoreme/Bireme that look similar to the Hemiolia/Trihemiolia. The others are all pretty distinct. We're going to give people some time to get used to our changes, and if readability really is an issue with these ships, then we'll look into doing something about it.
2. It seems really complex, what's the point?: Right now, water maps are very unpopular with the player base. There's a number of potential reasons for this, but we choose to focus on how simple it is, compared to land, as it seemed like a significant possible cause. As explained in the video, there's a much more fleshed out tech tree now, with units filling a number of different roles. And maybe we did go overboard ;), but I think that people just need to try it out, and see if it actually is that problematic once they get their head around it. There's less units than on land all up, although more from a single building. Basically, I think this is about letting people get used to it, understanding the nuances of the naval combat doesn't come just from watching a video showcasing a lot of changes in a short time.
3. There should be more resources on water, making it more important: Totally agree. We would like to add sources of both gold, and possibly wood as well. Our problem here is mostly that we don't have any good random map scripters working for us, or we would make these kind of changes.
4. The fishing ship and builder boat should have been one thing: From a functional perspective, this wasn't possible in the editor. They also do have fairly different roles that we wanted for them. The fishing ship collects food, and the builder boat not only constructs various naval defenses, it can also repair ships, making it more of a viable option nearer to actual combat, to fix up your fleet.
5. Why would you make a Port when the Shipyard is so much better?: Because the Port is the only naval building you have available in the Iron (Dark) Age, and it's a prerequisite building for the Shipyard, which isn't unlocked until the second age.
I think that should cover most points, if I notice people are bringing up something else a lot, I'll add it to the list.
What kind of coding languages/tools would scripters need if they wanted to contribute? I’m a Mac user so likely can’t, but I could put the word out if it’s helpful! 😃
@@JohnFallot I don't know what the scripting language is, it's some AoE2 random map script thing, if you're interested, there should be a lot of information around.
If I understand correctly the shipyard is port but better. Have you thought about making port strictly eco and shipyard strictly military?
@@LordTameo these are the differences between the two 😉
@@LordTameo That's exactly what they already do though? Rewatch about 2:20 I think.
Not even three minutes in, and both the concepts of sea defenses, and an expansion beyond the usual rock-paper-scissors is something I truly wish we could see in the main game! Imagine what it could bring to sea maps and sea civs.
Yeah, my favorite bit by far is the constructing, and actually building some port defenses. Very neat stuff.
All it would need is a floating market and you would be able to build your entire civ on water (by selling food to get the other resources).
And then your base is visited by Kevin Costner
I'm fine with sea towers, but sea walls and gates I'm not too sure of. It kinda destroys some of the distinction between naval combat and land combat. Maybe if they cost a LOT more, or were extremely fragile, and not simply the sea equivalent of land walls and gates
@@ArawnOfAnnwn There could also be something akin to the distinction between palisade walls and stone/fortified walls when it comes to sea walls. The first could be a simple chain with occasional anchors that would halt any ship passage, maybe even cause some damage to ships that bump it if we wanted to get fancy. But they'd be fairly easily destroyed, but maybe only by construction ships...not sure on that. Then there'd be what we see (sea) with the current sea walls with stone/earthen foundations that go down to the sea floor. It seems (seams) like these should take a long time to construct, and only from adjacent land and built tile by tile going out from there as though one is building the underwater dyke slowly out from existing land or dyke. It would be built faster in shallows/swamp. Lots of ways it could go...
@@ArawnOfAnnwn I feel like any defenses are balanced just fine with cannon galleon/demo ships. I'd lose towers in favor of walls/gates honestly.
And I like the palisade chain idea. Neat low tier wall. As for regular walls, they seem to be floating on a dock-type structure, so I say build them wherever
Microsoft should 100% hire these guys. This looks so well made and polished - great work from the Romae ad Bellum team.
Games do not suck or stagnate because of lack of talent and creatitivity among devs, they suck and stagnage mostly because of dogshit management and greedy ass investors.
Coming from a year later, the new DLC actually has the mod team involved!
I love the concept and implementation of boarding ships. It works so well as a parallel to monks without being the exact same and has a perfectly reasonable historical basis, too. Also, the ability to construct sea walls and gates is such a nice use of a feature from campaigns/the scenario editor and adds more tactical depth along with it. It all seems very well thought out. Props to the mod team!
Now THIS is just mind-boggling. 🤯
The fact the entire IDEA for the overhaul of the water gameplay came not from the official studios, but from a very small group of modders really speaks to me how there are countless talented minds out there, unheard of and just waiting to be found and have their chance to shine!
Thank you for doing this video, Spirit!
And I hope you're planning on covering this mod more in the future. Possibly play a few quick Skirmishes once it's fully completed or with more variety than its current build.
Love your content, man! Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! 👍
"Some modders literally recreate the game on land"
People - "MINDBOGGLING!!!! :OOOO"
@@Igor369 They put in the work that no one else did. How dare anyone use something extant as inspiration!
Just the fact that you don't NEED demolition ships is great, they are fun to use as tactical/strategic weapons (like petards) but as a counter unit were never fun nor efficient
And having demolition ships before gunpowder was invented is way too unhistorical.
@@praevasc4299 And having the idea that Gunpowder was invented in the Medieval era is way to unhistorical.
@@AURON2401 gunpowder was invented by the Chinese as early as the 9th century, and is proven to have been used by them in warfare by the 12th century. We know for a fact that the mongols used gunpowder in the 14th century, against both Europeans and in India. The ottoman empire used gunpowder by the 15th century, as did India. The Europeans were the latest to adopt it, but they too were using hand cannons and rudimentary artillery cannons by the 1500's and 1600's, which is still considered the late medieval era. Gunpowder is a medieval invention.
@@praevasc4299 Demolition ships actually did exist before gunpowder. Naturally they weren't explosive, but people could still sail infernos into the enemy fleets. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Tyre_(332_BC), read the part about the siege, it literally references what could be taken as a demo ship.
@@praevasc4299 yea they look a bit out of place... maybe they could be loaded with oils and other flammable materials. Would be just as devastating
a lot of this reminds me of how aoe3 water works, ideas that are already proven to work, the boarding being a conversion meanwhile is an excellent new idea
I really hope AoE devs watch your videos and take some ideas from this as i LOVE the idea of a monk-type water unit and a builder-type water unit as well!
Keep up the great content SOTL!
Pretty sure some of the AoE2 devs watch Spirit.
Hes a big part of the AoE2 community.
When you think this game could not get any better, they bring a very logical and historically accurate “monk on the water” lol
Water is an important part of AOE2 and maps like continental have made some of the most memorable 4v4 team games of my over 20 years playing this game.
Continental, open but defensible. Land but water civs can shine too.
Is Water unpopular because it is neglected? Or is Water neglected because it is unpopular?
Water is unpopular because it is neglected. The rock paper scissors formula currently in place gets boring very quickly. If aoe2 had as much variety on water as this mod I think water maps would be much more popular.
It's unpopular because it neglected, and it's neglected because it's unpopular
Water is unpopular because neglected. The rps gets old way too quickly and because it's not universally balanced like land, or there is no way to build on water, games get snowbally VERY quickly to a point it becomes impossible to get back map control (Especially against good water civs) once you lose it early on
The problem with water in almost any RTS game ever made is that it's a sideshow to the main game, so it has at most some resources in it, AOE3 had a lot of cool water stuff in it, the shipments allowed you to attempt a water comeback, a type of ship was able to land and act like a production building, and in the water there was gold and food, and treasures, though what it could use is building, more unit types, and terrain mattering, from shallow water being important to movement, rocks being a danger, to even just currents influencing movement speed in certain directions
This is quite well made and shows how naval warfare could be as nuanced as war on land is. I love the fact that they introduced naval "monks" (never thought of that) and of course naval "villagers"/"builders". I think they missed a trick by not updating the naval trade aspect of the game.
However, as much as I love this, I don't know if I really want it. The game is soo complex already with so many civilizations, bonuses, unique units and maps. I think my head would explode making sense of it all if we introduced such a complex naval tech tree.
"I love the fact that they introduced naval "monks" (never thought of that)"
Funny you say that, because boarding ships were in the original design plan of the AoE2, but they cut it out because they were awkward.
@@colombodoesstuff7653 Had not known that.
@@the_Nameless_One99 Check out Sandy Peterson, one of the designers of AoE and AoE2. He has a channel where he talks about the history of AoE design.
All it needs is a "floating market". It only trains Trade Cogs and trades resources. And a water-based Town Center (think Waterworld).
Then make the shipyard, dock and floating market and floating TC buildable on the sea as well as the coast.
And then Kevin Costner shows up.
@@ismaelsantos5378 omg can u just imagine a water nothing map with all civs having a unique water unit, and one of them is kevin constners
It's almost like they listened to the players and decided to do something actually good.
Love the split into ports and shipyards. Also feel like everyone should start with a port by default on water maps (we do start with TCs after all)
this is a welcome step! Still, I think a big player is missing: the effect of the landscape, which is something important in land strategies. For example, deep water could have some effect on ships (it can damage scout ships and other small ships, can increase ships speed), while low water can reduce big ships speed
That'd be really smart.
I honestly wish this were an aspect in the game on land. Units should go slower uphill, faster downhill, slower through shallows and swamp. Perhaps siege could even get bogged down and stuck in swamps...It'd probably make it all way too complicated, but as a separate game mode, maybe. Even farms could be more or less fertile and productive based on where they're placed. More fertile on grass, less so on sand, more so within so close to a pond, most fertile in swamps.
@@jefffinkbonner9551 That farm thing would force different build orders for every tileset
Great content as always Spirit.
As a kid playing AoE2 in the late 90's/early 00's I used to love playing on water maps, especially islands so to me this mod looks incredible! Like you said I would love for this to be made official!
1:14 I sea what you did there, sir.
Really cool. I always like how the ships and docks looked on age I, cool to see it being used like that.
Yes! The juggernaut trireme's were designed so well in AoE1!
AOE1 SHOUD BE NOW SAME AOE II
If you're referring to the graphic for our Juggernauts, I actually had to make that in Photoshop by sticking together the AoE1 Juggernaut and AoE1 Catapult.
@TheConqueror753 that's awesome, very unique solution!
Aoe 1 was a masterclass in design. Thank you for this excellent mod, guys.
Wow now that is awesome.
New maps tailored to this overhaul could be real fun to explore, something like where you'd start with a dock and a small wall around it, maybe some natural water "chokepoints" to give you a safe starting fishboom. I want this to be in the game already I'm ready for team islands all day baby.
Hopefully the official developers take inspiration from them or directly hire the modders.
Because the overhaul is interesting to say the least. Obviously is not perfect (I guess the designs are interesting and mostly historical accurate but can be somewhat confused pretty easily at first).
Anyway, it is not a bad start.
100% agree with splitting out the dock into an economic and military building (port and shipyard). This is my biggest problem with playing water. It's such a pain to send both fishing ships to fish and military ships to the front without accidentally swapping the two.
I think the Galleass could be a cool unique unit for the Italians. No joke my vision for an Italian Gallese was basically the thirisadai. I still think a Galleass could be a cool imperial age water unit. My idea is that it is a cannon galleon that is bigger, slower with better range. However it also functions as a transport ship and the more units you have garrisoned increases the amount of cannon fire. Kind of like the keep except on water. It is also kind of a risk reward mechanic because if you send it into combat with units gairosned in it and it get's killed you lose those units. Also an onager on water would be a cool way to shake things up.
This is AMAZING! Just 20 sec after hearing of the construction ship and im sold. The ability to add sea defenses shakes me to my nerd core. If AOE2 added this, it would revolutionize map possibilities and strategies, bringing back old players, as well as new blood RTS junkies. A Change like this would ensure AOE2 would thrive for another 20 yrs. Bring these developers on board ASAP!!!
Edit: i will say though, after watching the gameplay footage, the counters appear a little too strong. Like, not take a single hit strong. Still, these could be tweaked im sure.
That is very interesting. What a revamp. I hate water fights because it's just 2 units mainly, and you have to dump resources into them to just have more than the enemy.
I like water fights that are coupled with land fights. Great way to balance immobility of navy on land with vulnerability of land units against other land units.
These modders deserve a god damn job in game making
An immediate problem I see with this is that all of the ships kinda blend together. It's hard to distuinguish them.
yeah as soon as three or more types of ships were added together I could no longer tell what's what anymore.
Idk if it's just because im on my phone, but some of those ships look EXACTLY the same. *this ship* is countered by *an identical ship*!
I feel making the masts very distinguished between types is probably the lowest hanging fruit, but im sure the modders making this much good stuff already considered it.
Hope there is change here as aoe2 has excellent art direction to show progression/distinctions (fav for me is knight line and siege weapons).
I thought the same when I saw a knight the first time in DE. I couldn't tell what unit it was. It requires time to get used to reading new units in the game, so my first tip is to give it some time. But I see your problem though. A lot of the problem is the ancient naming too. All the ships end on -ieme, and that's confusing. If this is to be incorporated into Aoe2 (which I really would like to see) they would have to work on readablility. Definetly doable.
@@light_david7 i remember facing the -ieme problem in Rome TW. Appreciated that the game had bigger and angrier looking ships for the unit cards to help with reading.
I personally don't hate water maps, but most people do. And it's solely because they're not thorough enough. This video shows exactly what is needed to make water maps loveable.
Like many of the ideas of the mod, especially water defenses and boarding, yet feel like some of these abilities should be featured in the basic ship types instead of adding more single function ships. The first combination to come to mind is merging the fishing ship and construction ship to make it essentially the water counterpart to villagers.
Agreed. This is cool, but I do not think it needs to be made this complicated with this many different units. AoE4 combined scout/fishing ship by giving them a bunch of vision (they also repair). I would combine the fishing with the construction ship, and combine the boarding ship with the transport ship, for starters.
It would be so cool if the real game had the ability to build sea walls, sea gates, and sea towers. Would definitely make water maps more fun and interesting!
There is some really good stuff in here that many games could learn from. Few RTS games treat naval battles as anything more than an afterthought.
An interesting concept (although maybe misplaced in this game) would be units on transport ships being able to fight normally - melee units can repel boarders or board other ships, while archers can attack other ships or any passengers they might be carrying. But it would require ships to have enough visible space for at least a part of its crew (some might be below deck), and would also need to account for one potential boarder for each soldier that would be visible (for the sake of simplicity, you could have boarding parties fight one-on-one).
The siege type ships could maybe have their own dock. Maybe a drydock because they are so large/heavy.
And the ability for builder ships to make more docks would be nice
This looks amazing, hope somehow is related with the actual DLC that is comming.
Man, the in-game sound...brings back so many hours of mindless fun, back when I was on elementary school.
@ 1:12 Awesome PUN in the text there, SoTL! 👍😁 But, I would expect nothing less of you, sir. Hats off. 😊
I love the Boarding Ship. That's a logical, yet brilliant idea. "Water Monk". 😉
So many new Units and interactions for Players to learn. Brilliant! 💎 Thanks, mate! 🙏
M 🦘🏏😎
The egyptian unique transport ship is a thing of beauty. The thing I always loved about the star wars aoe2 clone was there was some truly massive units and buildings and this echoes that. Reminds me of c&c where you see one unit and go "oh shit", its legitimately intimidating to look at
yeh those AT AT walkers for imperials (assault class I think?) that could carry units and dealt serious damage. Also driodekas being as big a threat as in the movies!
My favorites from that game (in terms of big things):
1) Explosion of fortresses
2) Naboo Air Cruiser
3) republic artillery and tanks
4) empire ATAT
5) anti aircraft towers (super OP)
I like the ideas all around ! but one of the problem I see, is that with so many different ships, it might be hard to differenciate them, they would need to realy play around with the colors and shapes of the sail to make it easy to understand what you are fighting
My problem with water maps is wood sources. Forests require large amounts of land mass compared to the other resources, and are thereby far more limited than other resources on water maps, especially since there is a focus on wood heavy units in ships. Resource starvation happens a lot in team games on water maps.
If there was a way to change what the trade cog collects between wood and gold, allowing your economy to be more focused on water, that would increase the gameplay options for water maps immensely. And, it would have no impact on the normal games.
Maybe a little unrealistic but what if fishing or building boats could be set to gather driftwood?
@@Del_S Destroyed chips could left wood on the water, 1/3 of the total cost of the ship
One solution is to make trees in the middle fo the forrest have a lot more wood and maybe more resistant to siege to make it less viable to just use them to chop through everything to get to your enemy/get more space to build.
@@Del_S Yeah I feel this would be the natural progression, will be placed like normal fish tiles (but wood).
@@namename2215 Yeah. Probably not a thing the engine can do, but imagine if the driftwood patches could form in or near areas where there had been a lot of ships sank, like Phil was saying? Huge naval battles causing the nearest coastlines to get new driftwood sources to grow?
This looks incredible. Just when you would think that AOE2 can't get much better, this would take it to the next level for sure!! I hope something like this comes to the game.
Hear me out. A completely water map. Ship wrecks replace trees. Fishing ships are villagers. Sunken treasure for gold. Stone can be Atlantis style ruins. The dock becomes like a town centre and then this mod fills in the rest ie military units and defensive buildings
Such cool ideas, I never thought about how to make water interesting before and this is blowing my mind
The concept of the counters is good, but it's hard to tell one ship type from another, the readability is not there.
Funny that the "Boarding Galley" and "Armored Boarding Galley" were on AoE2 Alpha but it was cut. The unit had the Heavy Transport Ship appearance from AoE1 as a placeholder.
I'm glad to sea he's still making such great videos. :)
This mod is still superior
Kudos to the team!
I think what would work best for water, instead of a triangle counter, is a pentagram counter.
Aka, 5 ships (none are demolition ships, thats the 6th shiptype), and each ship counters 2 of the others. Maybe one hard and the other softly.
Not sure about the exact balance though.
rock, papper, scissors, lizard, spock
this is basically the only reason I even play this mod. naval combat in aoe2 with aoe1 ships are super satisfying.
Everything about this mod is great and congratulations to the team for successfully doing it!
I do think water maps need to have more wood and stone, unless of course the entire match focuses only on naval warfare. An idea I have in mind is, Trade Cogs providing the player X amount of wood per "cycle". If not, adjust the price of wood in the Market, although idk how much tinkering is needed to keep the balance.
Amazing mod, they put quite some thought and creativity into this! Firing transports sounds like a dream 11.
Love the mod! Had some great fun with a friend of mine but we think that there needs to be a lot more balancing. So keep up the work! People are excited for this.
Also, am I the only one that is annoyed by the AoE1 sound of the builders hammering? I wish they would keep the sound sample from AoE2.
This is crazy! From graphics to concept design to sound design to resource balance, etc. If the devs of this mod are not getting paid, then this is even more crazier!
I really hope the AoE2 Team takes notice!
It's nice to hear the original game's music. Great video, Spirit.
¿Does anyone else thinks that, unless the Rome DLC is the officialization of this mod, it will be overshadowed by it?
(10:20) - You're Canadian, but are you sure you're not half-American too? 'Qwince-Uh-Remes'... No, no 'Qwin-Qwehr-Eemes' - Quinqueremes. (14:05) - Wait you have REDEMPTION too, haha awesome!
But overall I have always wanted more sea wall and defence at sea in this game. This is fantastic, thanks for showing it and to those who created it.
this mod is really impressive, hands down!
super interesting video. I think this amount of ships would be a bit too much for competitive aoe but I'd love to see some of them implemented, also the ability to build water walls and water towers would be so cool to have in the actual game and might actually make water more balanced.
i rkn more specialised water maps (for competitive) are sure to follow if this grows.
The best hope is the AoE team seas this mod, and goes yep water map rework, and takes this as a base adding more unique versions of ships.
like imagine the turtle ship getting an immunity to boarding ships, and side cannons for example.
Each current unique ship can be given a unique upgrade as well.
WOW! Now water could be interesting if all this apply to the regular game. I think it's just all we wanted for make water amused (except for the awkward movement of the units, but i think that is imposible to solve with this graphic engine). Amazing job!
I would come back to AOE 2 in an instant if they added a mod like this as dlc
Splitting the dock into multiple buildings is a really great idea, gives more room for techs and units.
As one of the few enjoyers of water-maps, I do admit they are way too linear in how they play out. I hope the devs are taking notes!
Love this mod. Would still take me a while to learn to love water and I don't think it solves the fundamental problem of snowballing water because without investing a lot early into naval fortifications you can still lose a fight and then get cleared and dunked off water because, unlike the land, the baseline creation building (TC) has no defensive capacity. I think the one thing this is missing is making all Docks also have an attack.
I wish land combat was more fleshed out as well. For instance, only having 2 types of infantry units at the barracks is ridiculous, when infantry were by far the most common troops in the middle ages, and there were many types of them.
This is totally awesome, and should be incorporated int o regular AoE2
Some ideas are cool (the port and shipyard disctinction is a huge plus, juggernaut and boarding ships miss a lot) but I'm not totally sold. You have something like 5 ships that are long distance attack ships with an attack bonus on something. Differentiate the ships in lategame might be pretty hard and messy.
All these upgrades might be a big ressource sinkhole, and the fact warship guerrila enables you to get only a few ressources (fishes, that are more used to power land warfare) on most maps makes it useless to have such an intensive water game design.
On the maps where water is the center of the attention, it is mandatory to get water control, but then again you don't gain much strategic value other than taking some island spots to make a castle, or take a gold ... Which is again a land mechanic.
I'd love for water to give a more rewarding gameplay, with an emphasis on shallow and deep water (like the elevation damage boost, deep fish giving more food ?) , something like coral reefs to get gold on water and would be fought over in islands games, constructor ships that can map both shipyards and ports, maybe a small castle, unkillable neutral merchants trading posts... I mean, real strategic points and means to fight over them
Just adding the equivalent of sheep, boars and deers would change many mechanics. Why not sea wolves too
What a great mod!
A quick note if you'd like to make some water maps - neutral sea trade points like on AoE4 maps would add even more layer to 1v1 in a good way imo!
They basically recreated Ancient Conquest (rts ship game from 1998) into AOE2DE
I LOVE IT
I enjoy your videos, but I believe the puns are the best part by far.
I love this mod, last time you told us about it, I downloaded and had a lot o fun. Great improvement on ships. The only thing that bother me is the size of the houses looks huge.
We need some more historically accurate mechanics. Like the entire Roman fleet sinking. Multiple times.
lol Roman civ bonus: 30% chance all military ships will sink every 30min.
Storms! Storms! 50% chance ships sink in open sea and 25% chance ships get broken against the rocks when in shallows.
Yet another revision of Age of Empires 2, unfortunately for my spare time - it looks amazing! I guess all my life I will be playing Doom and Age of Empires 2 variants :D
I will like to see a mechanic to get back into water, maybe some kind of dock castle or something, or boats that you can build on land and rapidly deploy, in a water map if you loose water its game over, no matter how good your land eco/lead is
This is such an amazing idea and implementation!!
This mod is already amazing, this simply takes it to a completely different level!!
My only complain is that I'm not a fan of water walls... I wish it worked differently or at least looked differently (like chains or something).
this might sound retarded & i hope u dont mind me...but if we went with the chains idea, the building cost would include iron...and i dont see any iron being mined in AOE2, so maybe thats why they cost & look similar to land wall :v
6:52 Wow, it's that the helepolis?? Such a cool design!
I loved the wooden towers found in the campaigns. They're like crappy and cheap watch towers. Wish we could build them!!
The main problem with such massive water tree: you have to invest more in it so you won't have nice upgraded land army afterwards or vice versa (since you need to invest really a lot to switch youself to water/land and probably lose the game in process). It's not a problem only for big water maps but drain a lot of from hybrid maps.
Docks/shipyards is another really big problem for this: if you are not at water already then you need to build a lot of shypyeards to retake the water (as in unmmoded game) but then you need to build extra building to benefit from it (and since it's a gather point - probably not 1 or 2 but some of it).
Idk from historical perspective but what if whole water thing is only available since 2nd age if you want to do it this way? It will add some complexity to the decitions and will remove no-brain solution in dark age. Cause the meta atm is "build some fishing ships no matter what in dark age if possible cause otherwise you will be far behind".
I had an idea of how I would change the water balance. It also had the Dock and Shipyard separation, but with basic attack ships (Scout, Fire Galley, and 'archer-ships'). Shipyards would come in in the third age and produce bigger ships that would take multiple population, but are very powerful.
Really wouldn't mind to seeing some of those concepts inspire some water overhauls in the original game.
Well even if they never happen playing with that on the mod will already be plenty of fun
my cat loves watching your videos
NGL, I like the sound of these changes.
Love videos on modded stuff, and this mod's water dynamic is crazy interesting. I wish basegame was this deep for water, it's a shame water maps don't get their fair shake.
I wish it was deeper for land game play as well. Only having 2 types of infantry units at the barracks is ridiculous, when infantry were the most common troops in the middle ages, and there were many types of them.
A lot of this I'd like to see introduced into the main game, especially the seperate eco and military docks (the current dock UI is a mess and very confusing to new players!), and the ability to construct defences at sea.
As for the ship types, I'd probably only want three in feudal (galley, fire and maybe a ram/scout ship). With more ship types, demo ships could be pushed back to post-chemistry so long as an effective water triangle is mantained early on. The Age 3 boarding a seige ships are a great idea and I'd love to see those included!
I love the use of Age of Empires I music, the Definitive Edition AoE ship models and sounds aside the original ships (Elite Scout is AoE "War Galley", and the Juggernauts are "Catapult Trireme/Juggernaut" in AoE, the other ships seem to be unique models) all in all a very cool nod to the original game and a cool looking mod 🙂
Actually, if you check again, our fire ships are custom models based on AoE1. I made our Juggernaut by sticking together the AoE1 Juggernaut and the AoE1 Catapult. We've also used the AoE1 Scout Ship and War Galley (I think that's what they are called), as the second and third units in the scout line. But yeah, all the others are custom models.
@@theconqueror7533 Oh my mistake, they are similar but yeah they are different, sorry about that, I've adjusted the message accordingly 🙂
Persians 500 BC
Navy:
Triremes Charge ability that causes impact damage when at speed + fires ballista bolts , as well as transport units
Greece/Mykenaeans 1600 BC
Navy:
Triremes Upgrade : Athenian Triremes (Much stronger and fires faster) Charge ability that causes impact damage when at speed + fires ballista bolts , as well as transport units - Upgrades to Quadrireme (Faster and stronger)Transports 20 units.
Wonder: Parthenon Ships gain extra armour + unlocks Quadrireme in dock,
but you lose the Spartan hoplite Upgrade
OR
Acropolis of Sparta / Training grounds/Temple of Artemis Ephesus - Hoplites +2 attack
Macedonians 808 BC
Navy:
If you build the Pharos lighthouse wonder , you gain access to gigantic polyremes - massive 3 masted ships fitted with three large towers,one firing two arrows , one firing a ballista,and one firing a catapult projectile.
Can transport 25 units.
Triremes Charge ability that causes impact damage when at speed + fires ballista bolts , as well as transport 12 units.
Boarding Ship - (Captures enemy vessels, much like a monk but on water.)
Attaches itself to an enemy ship, immobilising it and after a few seconds will convert it to your side. (Idea borrowed from the Rome mod)
Wonder:Library of Alexandria - all Future techs are researched instantly.
OR
Pharos lighthouse - +10% Ship movement speed. Allows you and Egyptian allies to construct the gargantuan Polyremes in the dock.
Rome 753 BC
Navy:
UT: Corvus - Adds a corvus to the front of your triremes giving you the ability to act as a boarding ship.
The more marines garrisoned in the trireme the faster the enemy ship gets captured.
Triremes - Has Charge ability that causes impact damage + fires ballista bolts Charge ability that causes impact damage when at speed + fires ballista bolts , as well as transport 12 units.
Liburnians - a type of small galley used for raiding and patrols.
Monoremes - Light Scout/support ship, fires 1 Arrow. Upgrades to Penteconter
Boarding Ship - (Captures enemy vessels, much like a monk but on water.)
Attaches itself to an enemy ship, immobilising it and after a few seconds will convert it to your side. (Idea borrowed from the Rome mod)
Carthaginians 814 BC
UT2:Carthaginian Marines - Every trireme created is accompanied by 5 Carthaginian Marines.
Marines garrisoned inside a inside boarding ship, greatly increases the enemyship capture rate.
Team Bonus: Triremes +2 LOS
Barracks
Swordline - Levies - Citizen short swordsmen -Phrygian Helm Carthaginian Marines Marines have attack boost near ships - Falcata swordsmen Lionhead Helm Sacred Band.
Strong Navy
UU2:Quinquereme- Large warship that fires both a bolt and a catapult projectile/stone.
If Fighting against or alongside Rome, they too gain access to this ship. Transports 20 units.
Triremes - Charge ability that causes impact damage + fires ballista bolts , as well as transport 12 units - Upgrades to Quadrireme (Faster and stronger)
Boarding Ship - (Captures enemy vessels, much like a monk but on water.)
Attaches itself to an enemy ship, immobilising it and after a few seconds will convert it to your side. (Idea borrowed from the Rome mod)
Wonder: Cothon Port of Carthage - When built , this port can create + heal + garrison ships fast and has a catapult arch attack.
I grew up with the naval combat of games like Warcraft 2 and Red Alert 1 (and 2) and I enjoyed it so I'm intrigued by attempts to make naval combat a viable field as much as land.
As long as it doesn't go the Red Alert 3 angle where half the units can be ships and half the ships can be tanks.
This looks WAY more fun 😀
Damn, Forgotten Empires really should make a water focused DLC.
This is pretty impressive stuff.
This is sick. i would love this
Great looking mod, be keen to see how l more of this
It looks great and many of the ideas in the mode should be implement to other games as well, but I must say from my own expirence. Have to many options to pick is in the end worse than have less to pick.
The rock paper scissor counter thing was in age of mythology already. Naval stuff in aom is awesome
I have always wanted buildable sea walls and sea towers! Would add a fascinating extra layer of stratrgy.
13:29 It seems like having redemption could be a game changer in water combat situations
It’s heresy though right? Redemption allows you to convert siege.
Or did the rename it in the mod
He actually meant to say Heresy there. It can be, but only if the enemy is going for Boarding Ships.
I'd rotate a few of the sails and add some horizontal stripes or whatever to distinguish some of the ships from each other.
Probably not accurate to history at that point but easier to read, certainly.
If the mod author could pull it off, if the boarding ship could shoot out lines and then pull a ship together with them that'd bring a whole new level of utility, like a viper from SC2
yeah, the problem with water maps is not just lack of variety, but lack of resources too. water is basically just barren space. people don't like it because they run out of wood.
the solution should be to make ships cheaper but ineffective against land units, not even villagers.
The Boarding Ship is an awesome, yet simple concept. I wonder why it wasn't utilised before in RTS games...
Love the mod, I do think there a little to many ships that I can be a little confusing
Surely interesting and very well made but I think that the only additions really worth adding without making the water gameplay overly complex are the construction ship, scout ship and monk ship.
Age of Mythology has the paper-scissor-rock without self-destruction ship: Arrows beats Hammer; Hammer defeat Siege; and Siege beats Arrow.
This mod, anyway, is waaaaaay better. I like it pretty much ♥
Mod is better than DLC.
I think this mod does water right in the way I think Command & Conquer Red Alert 3 does it right (and is often ignored because of all the camp and bland economy system, I don't blame them) in that water feels more like an extension of land rather than its own, completely different world entirely.
Of course, you can't have amphibious units and buildings like in Red Alert 3, but this is the closest thing.