Mormon Temple Ceremony, Washing and Anointing, Explained (You Get a New Name, Too!)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- Nothing to see here, just your average ole' Christian church!
*Why I left the Mormon Church: (www.mormontrut...)
A few resources I mention in the video:
*Words to the prayers said during the washing and anointing: (www.ldsendowmen...)
*Encyclopedia of Mormonism entry on washing and anointing: (contentdm.lib....)
*Wikipedia page for washing and anointing: (en.wikipedia.o...)
*Forum #1 focused on people's stories about pre-2005 washing and anointing: (www.exmormon.o...)
*Forum #2 focused on people's stories about pre-2005 washing and anointing: ( / washing_and_anointing_... )
Faithful TH-cam channel focused on being *somewhat more forthcoming about the temple ceremonies ( • What you need to know ... )
*My book, How to Leave the Mormon Church: An Exmormon's Guide for Rebuilding After Religion (www.amazon.com...)
*My Mormon wedding explained video ( • Mormon Temple Weddings... )
*My Mormon endowment explained video ( • Secret Mormon Temple C... )
*My Mormon garments explained video ( • Mormon Garments Explained )
*My Mormon faith crisis ( • Why I Left the Mormon ... )
where to find me -
Patreon (ad free & bonus content): shorturl.at/8bpnw
TikTok: / alyssadgrenfell
Instagram: / alyssadgrenfell
Blog: www.mormontrut...
Email me: alyssadgrenfell@gmail.com
support my channel -
Venmo: venmo.com/u/Al...
I remember being in primary, and learning about temple marriages. I remember the teacher emphasizing that only a man and a woman should be married, and I remember thinking that it would make more sense for two men to be married because they're the same.
Anyways I'm gay now.
Wait, so you weren't gay before? What happened
@@choosetolivefreehe realized
@@choosetolivefreethe big gay got to him
@choosetolivefree he was a child. Then he grew up and realised he was attracted to men. If you think about it, it makes your comment feel weird.
I’m sorry you had to go through that coming from a queer person coming out especially when your family is religious is so scary
I am a 68 year old female former Mormon and only today did I realize that the horrible yeast infections I suffered as a new bride and mother were likely related to the “sacred” underwear I was in. Yikes! The church was the source of so much unnecessary suffering for so many. 😢
Actually, yeast infections are more complicated than that, as gut bacteria matters most. I'd go see a functional medicine doctor for information that is truth abouat yeast infections. Sugar and carbs and yeast all help grow bad bacteria. Also, the wrong probiotics feed the good, the bad and the ugly. Oil of oregano helps fight it. It goes far beyond what we wear down there because some of us have leaky issues and it has nothing to do with those garments. Signed victim of scientific reality who has to learn to lay off the sugars. 🤣 Laughing at me.
Surely it was cotton underwear that caused this problem. Proper hygiene is a myth perpetuated by scientists.
Oxytocin deprivation interferes with healing and contributes to the overgrowth of candida and other health issues. I’m assuming your husband was the only one who was having orgasms. 🙄
Thank you for sharing this deeply personal thing. I think some mormon women might need this information to help with possible feminine hygiene problems they are experiencing due to garments
My LDS mother also suffered from yeast infections 😪
I went into the temple with no warning or "preparation" for what was going to happen.....I was FREAKED out by the entire experience. I continued to look at my parents throughout the process wondering, "who are these people" and felt like I had been blindsided. I always thought they were normal and smart people, but now I questioned them and everything I had ever been taught in the church. We were always told the "catholic" church was the church of the devil and that any religeon who has rituals or wears similar clothing was false - then......I went to the temple and was shocked at the similar clothing, the rituals, being touched inappropriately and just spent the entire time screaming on the inside! It was horrible and I ended up leaving the church. Thank you for speaking out and making others not feel crazy or that they are alone with these feelings!
Wait so the very ritual Jewish religion in the Old Testament would be considered a false religion?
Liar.
@@WatchingwaitingG2D Now that's a good little mormon comment. Were you with me in the temple 25 years ago? Were you raised by my parents and taught crazy shit? Are you an empath and can feel my feelings? Was I lying about being freaked out? Now quit trolling other people's comments and take your self-righteous ass to your Bishop. Tell him you are no longer temple worthy since you made false accusations and called someone a liar. Calling someone a liar is a pretty serious accusation. How dare you. I know my truth.
The 'no warning' 'no preparation ' seems to be a common thread among subscribers, sadly. Can it be that women/mothers were/are so programmed to be meek and submissive that they just don't speak up? 😢 In my experience, I totally concur with your own experience. Yikes! I finally escaped too. Best to you, dear.
@@OkieJammer2736 Sadly, that is the case. We are told to "trust our priesthood holders" and we blindly follow, even if it feels wrong. Glad you escaped too! Best to you as well 🙂.
I'm late to the party. I went through the temple for myself in 1988 and the last time was in 2018.
The endowment changed so much over time. My daughter went through in 2011, her words were, "if people saw what happens they would think we were a cult". She nailed it
Cuz it is a cult
I believe that... @@Lanes100
When I converted at 25, I became friends with a girl who converted almost a year, so she was able to get her endowments. I left the church before she did, and when we spoke a year later, she told me the endowment ceremony was so traumatic that she couldn’t even talk to me about it without having a horrible PTSD response. She and her fiancé left the church right after. I had absolutely no idea what happened until this video. 😣
😢
oh please, this is ridiculous and didn't happen. I was 50 by the time I went through the temple for the first time, and I was in tears of joy and understanding.
@@ShawnGordonMale response versus female response? Also, I am interested in your complete disregard for someone else’s feelings about an experience. This cognitive dissonance seems to be very strong with this religion.
Oh, and, ps, if you actually believe you are going to be a God of another planet, I’ve got a tale for you about Thetans - you can even sign a billion year contract to that load of rubbish as well…
@@annwilliams6438 facts don't care about your feelings. What's at issue is most of these people making negative comments about having been members of the church, are lying about being members, and what happened. As to being a God, we don't teach that in church. There are comments and thoughts and theories, but comparing us to Scientology means that you know almost nothing about either.
@@ShawnGordondum dum dum dum dum dum
Love your shorts but. . . These long form videos are just gold! Keep up the good work
Totally thought this was going to be a pun about the underwear! 😂
I find it ironic that if we were to go by the rules of this day and age, Joseph Smith would NEVER be temple worthy.
The only reason he was temple worthy back in the day is because he made it all up himself. Even then...
He would never think the rules apply to him. Just everyone else 😂
Jonathan Streeter (Thinker of Thoughts) did a sketch on this a couple years back. It's great.
Neither would Jesus! He was an apocalyptic Jew!
Smith and his family were big cons.
thank you so much for this video. i left the church when i came out as trans when i was 18, just before i went to get my endowment and was going to leave for BYU. i’ve always wondered and asked about this ritual but no one would tell me. i did baptisms for the dead though, and i can’t believe i just went along with it when it was so weird. i’m finally mailing in my formal resignation to the church today so hopefully the missionaries stop trying to contact me. it’s been super hard recovering from this, especially thinking about what an awful, mean, racist and transphobic person the church pressured me to be. thank you for the support and information you provide, it reminds me i am not in fact crazy, just traumatized and that it’s not my fault! my mom is still mormon and has begun to have more progressive beliefs after my dad passed away, but it’s still uncomfortable to be around her at times. i still have trouble understanding why some people give away their lives for this church when it constantly harms me and people in other marginalized communities. if they were really christian, they’d actually love everyone like jesus told them to instead of committing hate crimes and disowning their children.
sending love and solidarity from another trans person! good luck on your journey 💖
Just a note about new names and sexism: the sexism extends beyond husband/wife. As a former temple worker, usually men and women would meet separately, and men were shown both the male and female names of the day. Occasionally, however, we would all meet together; when that happened, they would show everyone the female name, then dismiss ALL the women, and only after verifying the door was shut did they show the male name. That never sat well with me. I understood that the men need both because everyone receiving at the veil is a man; but why was it so important that the women never ever know the male name?
i mean she said that husbands aren’t supposed to share their new names with their husbands because jesus is supposed to know it and that the husband needs to know the wife’s so that he can call her forward
@@oliviam4667 Good grief, only men talk to Jesus and women need to be called by the husband, according to this nutt cult?
punishing women for eve's sin. sexism is baked into all christian/abrahamic religions that use the adam eve mythology
@@soupstoreclothingSexism is in every religion in one way or another. They only lose their sexism if modern people “modify” the religion but then it becomes what even is this religion? Is it your culture or do you actually BELIEVE it? Because if you believed it you’d not be able to change it.
@@asmrtpop2676 i know sexism is in most religions, but i'm not as knowledgeable about all religions as i am about the bible. so that's why i am just talking about those ones.
I did the Initiatory in the late 70's. Creepy. Nothing prepared me to be nude, covered in a loose smock, and yes, the worker touched me as they blessed me. After going through the Endowment, I was totally creeped out. My father and brother said, just keep coming back and you'll get it. I did. I became a veil worker. And once I deconstructed LDS truth claims, I could get the creepy garments off fast enough. Cult.
This was my experience, too, in the 1970’s. Don’t forget that we also wore one-piece garments.
It looks like you got the Lovey Dovey 🕊 Touchy Feely style ordinance from back in the day. 😅
@@Tesseus2006 , and then capped it all off with the Five Points of Fellowship! Imagine that without the veil between the participants. Not good at all. Ew.
@@donnellallan Father help us now! 🙏🏽 😅❤️
My MIL did my washing and anointing in 2000 and I wasn't prepared. I am a survivor of SA and it felt traumatizing and violating having my body touched. I didn't go back for a while since I live far from a temple so it changed the next time I went.
In general I had a lot of religious trauma from the church. I never felt good enough and tortured myself over righteousness. It took a long time for me to be okay after leaving the church. I just don't even like talking about the church to people irl (left over 10 years ago).
Informed consent!! As a convert I thought for sure I missed something obvious. I didn’t even know the washing and anointing and initiatory existed until the DAY of my endowment. It’s crazy to me people raised in the church or who take a temple prep class know the same amount of nothing I did.
Me, too! The lady from the ward who volunteered to be my escort shared a hotel room with me and the night before my wedding she laid all of her temple clothes out on a bed and gave me a little preview. It was all new to me! As a young woman, though, I saw the men’s “baker hats” in the temple for the first time on the next day. I wondered why there were so many from the kitchen staff wandering around everywhere. 😊
Dear heavens! I thought my female "garb' ridiculous until I saw the men in their absurd hats. I wavered between total bemusement and repulsion! @@donnellallan
@@donnellallan I was thinking Grecian Mario Brothers garments until you mentioned bakers. My bad! I guess we are all trying to figure it out. 😅 I can't believe it can be this brand new and confusing even for the people going through the ordinance/ritual!?... and I am sure many people are born into the religion. I am so glad we can all learn about if any this would ever be for any of us. I personally couldn't do anything esoteric since Jesus always said what he had to say and do, and also told us to proclaim from the rooftop and expose evil. So my view of the Gospel is very public. But I have respect and have compassion and actually am in awe to learn all that has been disclosed on this channel.
So I knew ALOT after my temple prep classes. I knew what each ceremony was, why they were done, what they symbolize, etc. the only thing that was “new” information to me was what the temple garments looked like. That was probably the only thing. I knew i would wear a veil. I knew what pieces I would be wearing, just didn’t exactly what they looked like. Really nothing was a huge shock to me? Idk. I enjoyed the temple prep classes.
@@Tesseus2006I think the most intriguing thing for me is how different experiences are between those who grew up in the church vs those who converted.
Also it seems peoples views are VERY regional. Like SUPER regional. For example, I wear dress pants to church and no one bats an eye.
But if I go to a chapel in say ashburn va, you better be dressed to the 9.
I lives in Hawaii for 5 years (that’s where I converted) and men wore flip flops to church, jeans, and button downs. And no one batted an eye. So I think UTAH members are a different breed of people than say people sprinkled throughout the US.
You are so wonderful with your words. I have shared your videos with my sisters (who left recently) and you are helping them feel seen. Thank you so much for that.
In a future video I would LOVE a break down of the boys and girls camps. I remember feeling so betrayed how the boys learned to canoe, archary, survival etc. while when I was at camp, all we did was crafts, read scripture, pray and write in journals in the woods. I didnt know to call it sexism back then, but I sure do now.
I wonder if boy/girl “scout” camps are modeled after something similar to this. I have friends that expressed frustration over not learning the same skills.
I know they’re secular organizations, probably just inspired by sexist/conservative values at the time
@@instructionsunclear7953 Girl Scouts can be this way, but doesn't have to, or at least didn't when I was a scout and then a leader (20+ years ago now). The organization has changed a lot since then so I'm not up-to-date on what the program is like now. Initially it was created because girls started attending the jamborees and demanded to do the same things as boy scouts (see the history of Girl Guides in England). Rather than integrating them, it was felt that girls instead needed a woman-led, woman-centered organization. When I was a teen there were Wider Opportunities where you could try everything from dogsledding to broadcast journalism. And even when I was a leader, individual troops worked on badges where you could do traditional crafts or focus on science, etc. It was really up to the leader and service unit (and for that matter the parents or girls themselves) to determine what a troop's focus would be. It was a tremendous organization back when I was a part of it.
@@instructionsunclear7953 That is a VERY interesting question. I personally loved Girl Scouts growing up because it was one of the only places with adults that encouraged me to learn and question. Granted, I came from a low bar situation, so I don't doubt there are still major disparities between the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. Wanna know something truly messed up? ALL the Mormon churches I went to (over 8) had VERY EASY access for Boy Scout programs. It was basically required for the young men in the church. Did they ever offer Girl Scout access or programs. No. Never.
That’s interesting @instructionsunclear because my experience with Girl Scouts was actually learning leadership skills and how to build fires. It was a very healthy program for me personally, and it was crucial to my development.
I’m thankful that we did get to do that stuff at my Girl’s Camps. But it’s still pretty recent, I don’t know if it’s a newer thing.
during my first watch thru I missed that you said you’re going to be recording your audiobook soon and I’m so so excited!! never-mormon here but learning about religions fascinates me and ever since one of your shorts was randomly recommended on my TH-cam feed, I’ve been hooked! you have a good head on your shoulders ❤ thanks for educating us with humor and passion.
I grew up LDS in a member-mom/non-member-dad dynamic, and when we first joined the Church (in 1972) women could not get their endowments if their husbands were not members (it may have been true for men as well, but, since you never talk about these things, I'm not sure). I was a pre-teen when my mom finally got endowed. But, it was all VERY hush-hush. So, when I was about to get endowed, I was TERRIFIED because of the rumors I had heard (like having sex on the altar, etc.). I asked the Stake President (who was teaching our useless Temple Prep class) to talk me off the ledge about it. And he took such gross pleasure in freaking me out even more. He said, "Oh, it's weird. REALLY weird." When I asked him to be serious, he just kept doubling down on how he couldn't tell me any specifics, but it was SUPER weird. He was having so much fun and I was scared to death. When I was actually getting the Washing and Anointing, I was shaking so hard, I could barely follow directions. And, really, for no reason. It was an unusual experience, but not the full-blown sexual assault I had heard of. It would have been so easy for that man to allay my fears and be kind--but, he chose cruelty instead.
I would behave and stay in church and grow up.
There are worst things out there and coming at us. Look around ... its 2024 and America is very different and uncertain.
You just said what to this individual?
@@virginiacurley3844 So your argument for staying with this cult is that there are worse cults? Just trying to get that straight.
@@virginiacurley3844 Staying in the church wouldn't help with whatever you're referring to when you speak of "worse things".
The more I learn about the use of oils for anointing, the more it makes sense that Utah MLMs are often based around essential oils. That slso makes me feel really upset that corporations are exploting a lot of people based on their faith's practices.
Yes! I’d also be curious for your AMA, Alyssa, about your thoughts on the connections between the LDS church and MLMs.
As I watched I was wondering what kind of oil was used. I think in the Catholic church olive oil is usually used. (I grew up Catholic.)
@@krispyier Mormons also use olive oil
Essential Wills can be beneficial. Anointing oil even in true Christian churches is often simply olive oil.
@@kredford87Hannah Alonzo an anti-MLM TH-cam content creator does a good job of explaining that connection in some of her videos. She also have a Deep Dive style video where she goes in depth into the MLM essential oil company Young Living.
I’m 18 years old, I’ve deconstructed the faith, but I haven’t done any other ordinance in the temple except baptisms for the dead. But my friend who is 19 years old got her endowment yesterday. My parents drove 3 hrs to go be there. I’ve heard about these temple ceremonies and gave her a text along the lines of, “I hope this is a good experience for you, but I know it can be upsetting for some, I’m here for you if you want to talk with someone.” She was grateful and texted me back later that it was good experience for her.
The endowment has radically changed from what it used to be. Even the washing and anointing has changed since 2005. I would say both ceremonies are far less offensive than they used to be.
Also didn’t Alyssa say in a previous video that even people that had an upsetting experience still tell people that it was a good experience because they feel pressured to say that no matter how they feel?
I really hope your friend is truly ok and not negatively affected by what they went through.
I’ve personally been through very traumatic experiences and so I’m hoping that’s not the case but I’m sending love and strength their way 💜
@@MBGK777 I know, I wonder the same thing, if my friend would even share any concerns if something was uncomfortable. I hope that you can heal from your temple experiences as well. ❤️
I had a similar experience with a friend of mine and she deconstructed about a year later. That doesn’t necessarily mean that will happen with you and your friend. As me and friend say, cognitive dissonance is a bitch.
@@tarynperl2735 Cognitive dissonance is extremely powerful! After many difficult conversations with my parents, I’ve come to realize that Jesus’s most impressive miracles was not the healings or walking on water, it was convincing people of his mission and that he was the Christ. Changing people’s minds is the biggest miracle out there.
The whole temple ceremony grossed me out. Felt nauseated and the prayer circle was a huge 🚩. Wearing garments put me thru severe depression feeling I had no autonomy over my body.🚩🚩🚩 Uncomfortable, uti’s, etc… So much to say! My heart cries out for my nieces and nephews and family who are still in. I’m sick about it! High demand religion for sure. Thanks for all your work! Almost 3 years since I was in a church building!!
I quit attending in 2020, but used Quit Mormon in 2023 to file my letter to the church. 5 weeks later all my records, baptism, and endowments have been expunged. It's as if I never attended. Weight off my heart, mind, and soul.
You're not alone. Many women go through the temple endowment once and vow never to return.
The UTI's and severe depression made living mormonism literally hell on earth for me. Thank God I deconstructed my faith in the LDS church and stopped wearing those garments the depression and UTI's is now a thing of the past.
@@TruthSeeker-zb1hl SAME! Now working through learned behaviors, deconstructing patriarchy (it harms both), authoritarian upbringing,… and now leaning to grow up mentally (bc we’re so infantilized)…. I’m on fast track with so much growth 🌱 I’m much more at peace now! ☮️
My partner grew up Mormon and I grew up Lutheran. His dad would try doing Monday Bible nights and I couldn't ever wrap my head around was how my forgiving savior was really judgmental through the Mormon view. Also I couldn't understand the levels I couldn't imagine God saying there was low middle and high classes of heaven? Clearly he never Mormontized me as I call it. I want us and our children to attend church but I don't know what is the right religion? It's been something I've really been trying to figure out because I love Jesus Christ our Savior that Died on the cross for me that God put here on earth. My mom was Catholic but she must have agreed because I was raised in church till they divorced and I moved in with her. I'd go to a Christian church on my own when I still lived with her even though she didn't tell me too.
I didn't realize I was still programmed by the church until I started watching channels about Mormon abuse survivors. I left the church at eighteen years old. I participated in baptism for the dead but didn't further go through the temple, thank God. However my parents did and many siblings have. Therefore I am sealed to them through these rituals I do not consent to. Your channel is the first time I've actually learned what happens in the temple. I had my name removed seven years ago and it's been two decades since I left and I am just now breaking the silence, I was too scared to look at anti Mormonism sites till now. I was bound despite all I'd done to leave, till now. I literally feel like the bondage is lifting, not so much for me but because I am now realizing that I have young family who are in the middle of this web of insanity and I must liberate my soul from this mess to forge a pathway out for them.
So which of the thousands of other churches, if any, did you join?
No church for me. Nature is where I can connect with God.
None
@@scorpionink4735How do you connect with God by connecting with nature? How do you obey his commandments and the teachings of Jesus with nature?
Salvation comes only through Jesus Christ by following his teachings. He said, “ I am the way, the truth and the life. No man cometh unto the Father but by me.” (John 14:6)
You ought to reconsider your ways, my friend. Perhaps you belong to a church but you can’t tell me it’s name.
Yeah. Having an old dude reach under your poncho and start tapping you with an oiled finger is strange as fuck. Especially when you have no idea it’s going to happen. That’s my experience
Dont you have a mouth and ask why and make them tell you what for......geez
@@virginiacurley3844 you don’t understand then environment this occurred in and the social pressure. He didn’t grope me or anything it was just odd. If you haven’t done it you can’t understand.
Weird as fuck is a understament.
@@virginiacurley3844 it's called brainwashing. cults raise their kids and members to not say anything, that this is normal and part of the ceremony, and that you are disapointing Jesus and Sky God by speaking out or saying no. And that if you try to stop it you'll be kicked out and not allowed to see / talk to you family again, or won't go to heaven, or any of a dozen other threats
@@virginiacurley3844 Cults! You're trained to just obey and keep silent
I was Catholic for 30 years. I don’t think anything is secret as far as their doctrinal or church practices. Now on the finances…
Oh, Mormons and Catholics are VERY similar in that way. Google "Mormon clandestine hedge fund." Worth 100+ billion dollars according to the whistleblower.
All the massive child abuse was a secret for far too long. I have listened to countless stories of sexual abuse in Catholic schools and churches. The fact so many in charge knew what was going on for decades and just moved people around to hide the horrific crimes is just so sick and disturbing.
@@lijohnyoutube101 Indeed. Very true.
@lijohnyoutube101 I'm so glad this information started coming out, I hope more and more people get exposed for their crimes and that the Catholic church realises they need to make some serious structural changes until these fuckers have no place to hide. a girl can dream...
That’s why I’m orthodox and not catholic, there should not always be one man on earth who is indeed fallible that makes poor decisions in the name of a religious figurehead who cannot be disagreed with.
I left the church when I was 16, and never went through the temple. I didn’t find out about the temple rituals for another 8 years. Even after almost a decade, learning this felt like I had been betrayed by every adult member in my life - it felt like all of them, including my family members, had been living a secret double life that was deliberately hidden and obfuscated from me my entire childhood.
The feeling of betrayal makes sense. I am ashamed of myself as a parent for foisting this stuff on my children.
I wish you well. 💜
In fairness to our parents, they were put through an even worse mindfuck than we were.
@@JJPrizeDistributionComittee , thanks for saying this. I was converted in the 1970’s at the age of 19. My greatest desire was to be an excellent mother and to raise happy children and the sales pitch was that Mormonism was the way. It’s very sad now to know that my choices harmed my children. I appreciate your compassion. 💜
That's the same age I didn't have to go anymore. I had no idea all this weird 💩 was going on in the temple 🤣 I wasn't into church from the get-go. Just be a good person and everything will be fine if there's something after death 👍
@JJPrizeDistributionComittee Hopefully, they had more class than you do now.
I like this lady. "All religions deserve criticism."
Tell that to a Muslim. They think their religion is perfect.
@@BunnyWatson-k1w look lady, your claims are offensive because the Mormon church is a sex cult. Muslims may be deceived by the hadiths, but you are drinking the Koolaid when you claim Mormons aren't in fact in a dangerous sex cult that routinely covers up sexual assault with Kirtand McConkie lawyers.
@@BunnyWatson-k1w it's the religion of peace.
Including Floydianity
@@springheeljak145 but I like mathematics and Pink Floyd..
“‘Cause he hopes to get excommunicated.” I liiiiiiiveeed. What an icon. 💅💪✨
I was totally uncomfortable during the endowment ceremony. Everyone who went with me was so excited for me and I felt nothing but cold and empty. I did not get this warm feeling they all spoke of. The apparel we wore was uncomfortable. Some of the things they spoke I either did not understand or felt uncomfortable with. I actually refrained from saying some things, put on a good show to make it look like I was compliant. Inside I was praying to God to please keep me from taking on any spirits that are not of God. When I went, they actually did touch different parts of the body. I had such morbid nightmares before I went to the temple, morbid enough that when I left home i said goodbye to my young children, as if I thought i might never see them again. I ended up leaving the church less than a year later. I realized in the temple that there was no way I had any hope of attaining the highest level of heaven w/o a man and temple marriage. I was told that people like me could only hope to be a servant to those who had temple marriages and who have met all the requirements of the highest level of heaven. One thing that struck me funny was the food stains on the temple workers clothing, you would think if the temple were that sacred, you would keep from spilling your meal on your temple clothing. I eventually went thru a deliverance about a year after I left, just to remove the attachment of spirits I feel like I gained in the temple experience. So so so thankful my eyes were opened. I was living the life, doing what I could do to help myself, so It wasn’t bc I did something wrong. My eyes were opened. I left. I lost all friends and family I gained in the LDS church when I left.
Food stains on service workers in the cafeteria? Your soul has worse stains than any of them! Thanks for slinking out on your own so we didn't have to throw you out.
Question.....is your faith all about the person and their process to being a King......where is Christs sacrifice of presenting you clean? Do you care for others " good works"?
Thank you...facinating
Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out. Your discomfort cost you a lot.
You have a right to be creeped out by non-consensual touching. And ... you have a right to be creeped out by Joseph Smith marrying minors.
Hahaha you’re so Christian and Godly 🤣. Definitely a good example of christs love. NOT! More like you show the true heart of your religion…. Nasty and evil. So thanks for lifting the veil so people can see what y’all are really about. Lol
I went through in 2002 at the Denver Temple. I wore what they called a “sheath”. It was just a wide cloth with completely open sides and a hole in the center for your head. An old man definitely touched my groin area with water and oil. Two old men also “helped”me put on my garment bottoms. I remembered thinking at the time that I would seriously consider opening a lawsuit for harassment if this hadn’t been an ordinance sanctioned by God.
😬 sounds big yikes
I did the same in 1998 with a shield (like an open sides poncho). None of this was explained before I went, nor the clothing to wear.
I'm so sorry that happened to you.
It was not sanctioned by God. It was sanctioned by man
The above is a lie. There are no men in the womens area....ever.
Appreciate you educating and being open about your experience. Hope you're in counseling and telling yourself you are enough every day because it sounds like years of feeling inadequate at a spiritual level could leave signifcant trauma. Hope you're healing and thank you again!
I’ve never been Mormon but I remember the first time I went to a gym in a heavy LDS area knowing nothing about the faith. It was June and hot. I watched in utter confusion as everyone showered and then proceeded to put on Long John’s! I started asking some questions and soon found out about the magic underwear. Head scratcher.
😂
It is not magic. It is clothing. I am LDS and know for a fact it is not Magic. We do not even claim it is.
Why are you interested in my underwear...?
@@robertwhitmore1088 You know that’s not true… People do claim that their garments protect them from various forms of harm. How would a piece of cloth protect you, if it wasn’t magical..?😉
@soude85 You'll never known puppet.
Until I discovered this channel I always just saw Mormons as slightly different clean living christians who really loved knocking on doors and Im in my forties! If you dont live in a Mormon " hotspot" we really dont know anything about the LDS church.
There is a documentary about the LDS church on netflix but when I saw it I didn't realize mormonism was the same thing and how huge the mormon church is.
Watch the South Park episode if you haven't. No lies told. 😆
That was a funny episode. Can I ask if you’ve ever read The Book Mormon? It is Another Testament of Jesus Christ.
@@Coastal1931 and that’s the problem, because there is not another legit testament about Jesus Christ. The last part of the Bible even says that proof positive that Mormonism is not Christianity even if Jesus Christ is in the name.
I disagree with you, I find it both beautiful and instructive. You have your free agency though, and we can still be friends. Hope you’ll reconsider. Cheers.
Interesting. My former husband joined the Mormon church and became quite insufferable about it. He has since passed away. I'm a Catholic, and will remain so. I've been anointed three times in my life - once when I was baptized (I was a baby), once when I was confirmed and I knew what to expect. I also got a new name that I chose and I picked Catherine after Catherine of Siena who was a strong woman who told the pope to get out of France and come back to Rome where he belonged. I also have received the anointing of the sick where I was anointed on my forehead and hands. When my ex joined the Mormons I did a deep dive into the history of the church and concluded it was very much like Freemasonry and when it came to the book of Mormon, if you take out the phrase "and it came to pass" the book would be very much shorter.
Good comments clearly showing there is no connection between Mormons and the Catholic faith. The Mormon beliefs are a unique cult and not Christian.
Catholicism has no part in this video, but I’ll note that St. Catherine of Sienna absolutely “spoke truth to power” - with tremendous filial love and respect (not to mention effect) for the Pope and bishops of her time, and it’s also worth noting that she has been honoured with the title “doctor of Church” for the theological excellence of her writing and speech.
Heard some crazy, weird stuff abt catholic priest and nuns. ...ugh
Heard abt the 200 dead catholic school children in Canada. Huh?
@@gen-amb Why not? They were sharing their experiance going through Annointing rituals in another religion and that when going through the one as a teen/young adult they were told what was going on and what to expect in contrast to the experiance in the cult where you aren't told what is going to happen and then after you are told not to talk about it. I think it's a very relevent compairson in this case.
Ha, ha, ha!
I love that you make this content - you're so strong! Please make more!
omg when u made the first vid i was like “i hope she talks more in depth about this later” so thank you!!!
Find out from experts not this person. Its just hearsay. Videos are entertainment. They make money on us.
@@virginiacurley3844 the definition of hearsay is to give information about something you yourself weren’t party to. she’s talking about a ceremony SHE went through… that’s not hearsay. don’t use words you don’t understand. she shares information about a religion she was a part of for 23 years with research and evidence to back her up. she also says in almost every video “i encourage people to research these things for themselves.” she spent two years writing a book about leaving the church. i think all that makes her an expert.
As someone who was a priest when I figured out about this,
I will say that even by 17, no one taught me about this so I thought it was fake.
Nope, I went to the church website and it is an ACTUAL FUCKING CEREMONY! WTF.
AS A PRIEST...THOUGHT YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND AND CHECKED IT OUT FIRST.
YOU MADE A DECISION BY LOOKING AT A TV VIDEO.
WOULD I TAKE ADVICE FROM YOU...HECK NO.
@@virginiacurley3844
1. You're watching this too.
2. I seriously never heard about this until I saw this video and had it confirmed by asking relatives who did the ceremony.
3. I'm not giving you advice at all. What part of my comment even remotely suggests that? You sound crazy.
4. Learn how to use proper English grammar.
@@virginiacurley3844 You mean when they said they found out from the church website?
I am exhausted taking all this in.
When I went through the Atlanta temple, they actually touched each part of my body as it was “washed.” It was really a traumatic experience for me because then as now I didn’t like being touched on my body. I suffered 8 years of CSA by my children’s pastor at the Southern Baptist church I grew up in. As a result I cannot stand being touched involuntarily because it was and is triggering for me.
During the ceremony I was given the new name Solaman (and yes it is spelled correctly).
As an atheist who has never been in a religion, it just sounds so wild. The whole temple, underwear, some magic ceremony. It's just sooooo mind-blowing. Honestly sounds like some creepy movie.
Agreed
your point about secrecy is SO accurate! i was raised catholic. catholic school, church choir, i was confirmed, i was an altar server, etc. (everything i say is related specifically to my own experiences, im sure others had different ones)
when i was confirmed at 12, we knew pretty much everything about it. we were also told many times nobody can make you get confirmed. we had interviews with priests where we could ask question and sponsors to help us. we also got new names, but we could pick any saint we had a connection to. (i picked saint margaret because she was queen of scotland plus she was married and most of the female saints we were taught about were nuns.) not to mention it was added to our names, never meant to replace them.
i think it relates to shunning, or some form of shunning, as well. when i was 18 i decided to leave and become an episcopalian. (it’s very common, robin williams once called it being “catholic lite”) my old elementary school had pressured to resign (fired) a teacher for having a harvey melk quote in her classroom. my family was incredibly supportive. it’s been 3 years, and i’m unsure of where i stand now. (i’ve come to realize it’s specifically american catholicism i have an issue with) regardless of which sect of christianity i choose, or if i became agnostic/atheist, or something else entirely, i know my family would support me. i wouldn’t lose an entire community. i can’t imagine how much harder leaving would’ve been if i would’ve lost my family.
We were also allow to taste the waffers that weren’t blessed yet so we would be prepared for first communion.
I belong to an Episcopal church - it's a community and framework that I find I am the most comfortable with, since I grew up in another traditional protestant congregation. In my diocese, which is highly progressive, they accept anyone in whatever stage of belief, or not, that you have. Everyone can participate in communion, baptized or not, confirmed or not - it's your decision. Even the preschoolers get a wafer - very cute to see them walk up the aisle from the nursery. I appreciate the comfort of ritual, but I also don't think it's the be-all, end-all of my faith. Attending services is only a small aspect of leading a faith-filled life. And nothing is a secret, or mandated that you must believe to be 'saved'.
Ultimately, it is your own relationship with faith and the belief in whatever higher power - or not - that you have that matters. It took me a while to figure out things for myself. Don't rush your own journey - give yourself the grace to learn, explore, and contemplate what is most meaningful for you. And if you feel the need, then find a community that supports you the best.
Was also raised Catholic. There was no secrecy around the sacraments. We went through in depth prep classes. Before first communion we practiced several times.
Another major difference is anyone can enter a Catholic Cathedral. They are open to everyone. You don’t need to be “worthy”.
I agree but it is weird to ask 7 year olds to get into a dark closet with a man that he/she can't see and confess the sins. It's also weird to dress a bunch of 7 and 8 year olds in little bride and groom outfits. But going through it was pretty fun. I'm quite a bit older than you though and the nuns were kind of mean and girls couldn't do alter service back then. But misogyny runs through all of the main religions. I'm fully agnostic now.
For me, it was immediately after I made my confirmation that I chose to step away from the Catholic church and became agnostic but then converted to Christianity. Unfortunately I got wrapped up with a sect of Christianity that was quite difficult to handle. I found through this entire process it was my choice and no family or neighbor pressuring to find my path to faith. I'm much happier for it.
you can be so proud of yourself for sharing this and likely helping people change their lives
as someone who only knew of mormonism as “a weird american religion” until finding your videos, all of it is so unfathomable to me. so much respect for you and everyone else in the comments sharing their stories
I got approached by Mormon missionaries in Copenhagen recently I was so shocked I was like… what are they doing here? Then I ran away
I have absolutely no experience with Mormonism and no desire to join, but I’ve always been curious. I love your videos, you explain things so clearly. Thank you for sharing your experience! ❤
I feel like you’re the first person to be so frank about “not all religions deserve respect” bc yes, do individual people deserve respect? Yes. But we have to get away from the mindset of “man is flawed so trust the company” when the reverse is the reality.
I've been waiting for your next video. I've never been Mormon but enjoy your content!
I'm loving your long-form content. Keep it up!
Hello! I’m no expert MO, I’m an ex JW, and this is helpful to even me! Let’s shine a light on things done in secret, let’s talk about all of it. Thank you for sharing your story, and knowledge! ❤
l used to work with a bunch of JWs, which honestly are just as bad. I went to a Southern Baptist church for many years. l didn't feel anything about our religious practices were secretive. However, l did feel that even though we say we love everyone like Jesus did we were a bit Judgey. We didn't support gay marriage, a women's right to choose and we wouldn't have looked down upon someone a bit who was covered in tattoos. In my early 20s l went to church sometimes 3 times a week, definitely most Sunday mornings, missing in a rare occasion. l also went out dancing and drinking frequently. Only a few young people l was friends with knew l went out. l didn't feel comfortable letting any of the older members know bc l was worried they world personally judge me out tell me l going be going. Even though l didn't drink until l was blackout drunk and only went home with 2 guys in all the many times l went out. Anyways, glad you figured out the truth of your religion.
JW is so damaging.
Be careful where you learn stuff. This is an entertainment videos.
They make money on us
@@virginiacurley3844 And you're being fleeced by a cult.
@@virginiacurley3844You be careful
Great job explaining in detail what happens. Mormons/LDS want to be considered mainline Christian but the temple stuff is anything but.
I mean, mainline X involves ritual cannibalism so it’s all kinda anointed from same sewer
Would be nice if temple prep actually existed when I went. Only info I got was from my older brother and sister. “Don’t think about it much, it’s kinda strange and overwhelming.” Great advice
Don't worry, I had the temple prep class, and it was totally useless and just cryptic double speak.
This was your best video yet Alyssa. Thank you so much. ....I first went through the Temple in 1981. Just days before my Mission. It was a horrible experience. Before 1990 they had "The Blood Oaths", where you had to reenact slashing your throat. I looked around the room and everyone looked like a Zombie. The expressions were so robotic. They looked at this like it was no big deal. Like it was going to your nearest ATM machine to take money out. .....I personally was shocked and appalled. I thought that Charles Manson had hijacked the ceremony. The same way ISIS and Al Qaeda have hijacked and perverted Islam. .....Thank God someone had a revelation to take out the blood oaths in 1990.
Love your videos so much. I never went through the temple thankfully. Your videos help remind me that I don’t need to feel guilt over leaving the church. Your videos help validate the choice to leave!
What kind of backlash are you getting from publicizing all of these secrets? I fear for you I’ve always been curious, but I hope you don’t get in trouble for this.
So far just a lot of angry internet comments and some disappointed parents, I’ve already written myself out of the church so I can’t get excommunicated. That’s really the only power the church holds against people but I already kicked myself out of the celestial kingdom. 🤷🏼♀️ I’ll let you know if anything else happens haha
@@alyssadgrenfellthat's hilarious as your always welcome to be in Heaven with us authentic Christians ✝️.
@@davidjanbaz7728maybe don't pile on more religion as someone processes their religious trauma.
My main push back against her is she’s against Mormonism but then still garners support by supporting Christianity.
She doesn’t explain at all that tons of the problems of Mormons are in the Bible. Truly if you’re skeptical of the Book of Mormon great, but then apply that skepticism to the Bible and actually read the Bible critically.
Read how the god of the Bible killed judahs two sons. Judahs first son died so the Bible forces you to marry your dead siblings wife. Judahs son married his sister in law but wouldn’t get her pregnant so god killed him. Then the second brother wouldn’t knock her up so he was killed. Then Judah slept with her thinking she was a prostitute.
Seriously the Bible forced people to practice polygamy and marry your sister in law and get them pregnant or you may be killed by god.
Sure this woman is exposing Mormonism great. But she does a very poor job of actually exposing the Bible as well and showing how problems of Mormonism are also in the Bible.
I've thought of this, too. Keeping Alyssa & her fam's safety in my heathen thoughts ❤
I grew up in an incredibly catholic family, to the point where for much of my life I was CONVINCED I was going to go to the seminary. Long story short I'm not anymore, but I still have all the knowledge and awareness from growing up within it. I recently found your channel and went on a deep dive of all of your content.
It's fascinating the stuff about the temple compared to the Catholic mass and sacraments, because much of your explanation of the washing/anointing and the endowment are very similar to the sacrament of confirmation in Catholic mass, but confirmation was literally a yearly event that everyone knew about and prepared for. Literally as a cantor I knew all the hynms specific to confirmation by heart because of how often I sang them, usually like twice a weekend for two weekends each year. It's shocking to me that they essentially "spring" all of these religious rites on to you (most likely because they know most would say no) when within the Catholic tradition, the WHOLE POINT is to see those doing the sacraments before you and want to be like them and folllow in their footsteps. By the very bullshit of religious theology, you're supposed to want to pursue your faith personally, not because of social pressure. Churchs wield social pressure like a machine gun, but it's shocking to me that doing so so explicitly is baked into the mormon faith.
And the Catholic church has *much* to apologize for, but I had always put off the talk of mormonism as a cult as religious tribalism and overblown "we're more right" as is common between Christian denominations. Thank you for sharing how much the "harmless nice folks from down the road with a silly book" actually weaponize shame and manipulate their populace at levels extreme even compared to other christian faiths
I don't remember much about my temple ceremony except that the couple who were my "friends"' didn't show up so I was on my own with strangers who were temple workers. I left the church because I was pregnant with a 4 year old daughter. I was on welfare, I was shorted on my food stamps and only got $100 to feed us for the month. I went to the church for food, not money. The bishop sitting behind his mahogany desk, pulled out an enormous 3 ring binder, opened it up, then told me the church wouldn't help me because I was on welfare. They would however take their 10% from my $500 per month welfare money. $400 was for rent and the rest was for non food items like laundry soap, toilet paper etc. You couldn't buy stuff like that with food stamps. The church was happy enough to take the first $50 of my assistance money which I had to pay to be a full tithe payer.
So looking back, who anointed Joseph Smith's wife? Did another man or two put their hands on someone else's wife, or did Joseph Smith do it himself?
Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out.
@@JohnDLee-im4lo You're a creep and a clown.
@@Hm-rz2qg quiet mork.
@@JohnDLee-im4loLOOK OUT ITS A HOT DRINK! ☕️
Damn that cloak looks like it decently covers you! i’m old enough to when that “cloak” was a complete see-through pillow case. 😂😂😂 and i got touched all over including my private area. it was odd but i was kind of just numb taking in all the weird shit that was going on lol 😅
I dont think so.. why would anyone be fiddling with your private areas.
And why did you allow that. We have slapping hands and a mouth that say...whoa
@@virginiacurley3844 I assure you they did. but it’s more of a light touch of the finger as they bless your body etc. it’s still creepy once you think it over. I went though the Temple endowment hundreds of times but i never would do the anointings…
How very sad!
@@virginiacurley3844 because the cult brainwashes them to not say anything and that it's bad to move during the "ceremony"
@@virginiacurley3844 why? because church related institutions are often full of perverts thats why
“Brother TH-camr” sent me 😂
Here is a funny story from Freemasonry, which is the origin of the LDS temple. One day, a stranger arrived late for the Masonic ritual and knocked at the door. A young Freemason with a lack of experience opens. After talking to the stranger, he reported back to the Worshipful master (basically the bishop of the lodge) and announced "Mr. Xyz has arrived." All Freemasons in the room giggle. The master replied :"My young son, xyz is not his name, it's the password."
My endowment was horrifying. My entire family on both sides attended, and they forced me to go up to the prayer circle, where we then had to veil our faces as women, and I cried silently the whole time. I remember putting my eyelashes in my pocket because they fell off. To top it off, a rude woman behind me who I didn’t know kept telling me my clothes were on wrong after every step. It was the beginning of the end for me, but my wedding was the next weekend so I just tucked it away and settled in the relief that it was over. I was 20 btw lol
That's how they get you in the temple. You have to do the temple in order to do your mission or wedding "the right way" to make everyone proud of you. The wedding is all planned before you go to the temple right before, so you go through with it all.
How old are you.
@@virginiacurley3844 28
Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out.
You are doing such a great job explaining this topic. Thank you this is really interesting
Thank goodness i didnt get my Temple reccomend b4 i left. Some of things they tried to explained already freaked me out. No way washing & annointing by others...nope, nope....but i didnt know it all until your video. God Bless & protect you. You are the Leah Remini of the Mormons.
The touching hasn’t been gone that long.
Manti temple 1995 when I receive my endowment and washing they still touched you under the poncho.
24:30 I'm a forgetful person and was so worried about forgetting my "new name" because I didn't know about the certain names on certain dates system at the time. I found where the name shows up in the Bible and marked it in a unique way so I would know what it meant. But I didn't label it in case someone else saw the notes in my scripure margins. Oh the scrupulosity 😅
If I remember correctly they sent out a survey asking people what made them uncomfortable in the temple rituals and that was the basis of the 2005 changes
As a former 25 year old ex Mormon I'm so happy I left. I found my true faith in Jesus 10 years later and it was something completely different than my previous experience with this cult.
All about Mormons feel so restrictive and religious it kills your spirit 😞
Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out.
Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out.
I am a 25 year old ex Mormon as of about 2 years ago. I just have to say I really loved your part about you can always be better. The whole good better best part. I struggled with some "sins" at different moments in my life that made me not temple worthy. I too felt soo much, even when I was not participating in that "sin," that I could always do better. It REALLY FUCKED ME UP! I was honorably released from a mission early as well (do to mental health issues, and me overly wanting to follow the rules that my companions complained about me to the point where they sent me home). I also had an engagement broken off (good thing too since it would have put me in a bad relationship all in the name of wanting to be married, wanting to be intimate with someone, and wanting to follow "gods plan." It was kind of mutual (happened after she got endowed which might have been why she started it)) do to no fault on me. After all of that while in collage I started to get Depression and also had bad Anxiety (making me want to "sin" more, but that's a whole different conversation), and this was because of this idea of always needing to be better and not being "perfect." I had a messed up bishop as well who really beat my down for "sinning" even though I was doing all the other "right" things to stop, but still at times having issues with my "sin." Since I left the church I still struggle with my mental health, but it has gotten a lot better and I feel sooo much happier and freer now that I have that weight of needing to be "perfect" taken away. The Mormon church is a cult, and anyone who says otherwards is a fucken liar, and it has FUCKED me up in ways I am finally getting over (although it took me over a year of being out to get over it in ways like where I started to drinking coffee). I am still on my journey of getting passed that part of my life, but I feel soo much more relief now being out! Please never stop making these videos and letting people know the truth about this Cult that fucks up people bad in every way. also feel free to share my post or ask me more about my experience having just gotten out, and I would be happy to share. Thank you again for putting words to something I have felt, but could not put the right words too, so I can better move past that. (as a devils advocate the church did instill good values in my that I still hold dear in a way that I still find morally right from my perspective (ie. no stealing). Yet, contrary to that point you can still teach those values to others without the threat of eternal damnation or "being put in a lesser place the others" (ie the lower kingdoms). So, ya...).
Just wanted to say I didn't stop going to church (bc I didn't want my parents to know) until I was 19, but I had left by the time I was like 15 or 16. I think I first started questioning when I was a child, and it only snowballed from there the older I got. I'm 23 now, and it has also seriously messed me up, but I can't imagine how much worse it could've been had I gone any further than I did. I've been in therapy for the last 8 months and the more I go the more I've been unravelling the fact that I hold some very deep religious trauma that I didn't even know I had. The pressure to be perfect all the time is the root of my extreme anxiety and I think that's why I don't want to do anything anymore. I'm terrified of not being good enough. Only as an adult have I begun to distance myself further from the church, but I have the feeling it's gonna be a long and very difficult process, unfortunately. You're very brave to have been able to leave, and I want you to know that I'm proud of you for being able to stand up for yourself and take care of you, because that is so so important.
I do have a question, though, as you seem to be a man (correct me if I'm wrong!!), and I would like to ask how strongly was purity and modesty pressured on you growing up, especially in your teen years? As a woman, I had an awful experience with that growing up and it has led to a lot of issues I now have, especially since victim blaming was a huge part of that. I'm really hoping to know as that has always been a question I've had (just to further see how misogynistic the church is) and I don't know any men that have left the church as of writing this. Thank you if you do happen to answer my question!
@@ReverieOfThorns Modesty was not pushed on me as much as a man. Since it tends to be a lot easier to find and ware modest clothing as a man. Purity however was an every day push on Men. To be pure in thoughts, mind, and action was a big thing every man is talked to about. Whenever you talk to the bishop one on one purity was brought up 9 times out of 10.
I feel that trauma from the church to this day. I work on it as much as I can, but it is an ever constant battle to fight on the feeling of needing to be perfect. I still find myself shaming myself for noticing an attractive women at times (although its happening less often). Finding beauty in the body of another human even if it might be sexual in nature is an every day fight. This is just one of the many traumas from the church I work to combat every day.
Brother TH-camr is cracking me up! 😆 As a never-mormon individual with a physical disability that affects body function who uses a wheelchair full time, even symbolically, this is hugely harmful and problematic.
Wheelchair user here! I was raised Christian, not mormon. But yeah, it did a *lot* of harm to me. all the being told you'd be healed if you had enough faith ish. But it never happening.... Instead of coming to the conclusion that god was saying no as an answer to my prayers, i decided it was because i wasnt a good enough christian......
I wish that they would have just helped me accept my wheelchair instead..... And I'm glad im out, now.
Anyway....... Just saying i understand/relate to your comment. 😊
@@mirsiedlundI hope the science will help you more. Apparently robotics is advancing a lot nowadays.
@@mirsiedlund Glad you commented. Oh yeah being catholic and disabled caused damaged to me to as someone born with a disability... It's wild!
As a disabled person it struck me how ableist some of the body part blessings are and made me wonder what the Mormon attitude to disability, neurodivergence and mental health is. It sounds like the focus is really on healing, which caused me a lot of harm even in a mainstream Christian church
@@therehn Like you I am the same. I am disabled and was raised Catholic, so pretty mainstream (common). That said, I was born with a birth defect which is highly scrutinized by fundamental sects and linked to incest and seems to reflect an impure bloodline to Christ within mormonism. Ableism is only part of the problem as is the wild misunderstanding of what is or isn't ableism in general.
My brother was so traumatized that even now, 10 years out of the church, he won't say his "new" name.
Why would a grown man be scared shut. I thought men are tough.
@@virginiacurley3844 he's not scared, it just makes him uncomfortable
@@virginiacurley3844 because men can be victims of abuse and mistreatment just as much as a woman can, and it's not a matter of being tough or not. It's actaully the stronger person who can admit they have been, and the weak men are the ones who hide it, pertend it didn't happen. and let it keep going to happen to others even though they know...
@@virginiacurley3844you sure did spend a lot of time getting your knickers in a twist in the comment section here, huh
I had some Mormon missionaries come to my door and I invited them in because they needed to get out of the pouring rain and I offered them tea, lol, smh. I had no idea it was taboo. They politely declined.
Don’t even feel bad lmao . My dad did this to my husband so many times 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I’m like HE CANT.
Now years later that my husband’s out of the church my dad is like WTF but why coffee isn’t even bad 🤣I’m like ya I know it’s a really long story 🤣
You can offer them tea, coffee, whatever and it is on them if they accept or not. Offering is kind and not you forcing them to accept.
Smart traveler
Actually or technically only tea derived from the green tea plant is considered taboo.
Tea from the Nevada big sage brush is great for colds according to Native Americans.
Tea was drank by early Mormons in Utah just not from the green tea plant. Look up the plant brighams tea. There’s a plant in Utah they’d make tea out of and named it brighams tea.
Also tea from pine needles is loaded with vitamin c I believe.
I’ve heard a lot about the Mormon magic undies. I went to a temple years ago, before it was consecrated or whatever they call it, and we saw all the little cubbies full of neatly folded white underwear. This whole thing is completely creepy. It floors me that anyone could decide that some pedophile pathological liar from upstate NY had any kind of special revelation - especially when the supposed text of the revelation had unaccountably disappeared, so you’d just have to take his word for it.
They always come in when I invited them. I love to the opportunity to challenge them. So much fun. I am never disrespectful but have no fear in asking questions and compare it with other faiths etc. It gives them an opportunity to think about what is really happening.
Oh, man, your stories are equal parts horrifying and intriguing. I live in Southern Idaho, in a city that is wildly Mormon. 70%+ of the population is mormon, and it's caused me to be ostracized from my peers since a young age. Growing up in an atheist family (well, direct, the rest are nearly as intensely religious as your family is/was) lead to some turmoil in school, but I just only wished the best for my peers. Learning more about what you and others have gone through/go through only allows my sympathy to grow, despite what they've done to me. Thank you so much for sharing these videos, you do so much good!! ❤🫶
Wow. I live in the same area and am the same. I am atheist but most of my step siblings are all super Mormon so it’s always awkward around holidays. These stories are always so interesting to me to see how people find themselves leaving.
Same extact area and also raised secular, but in my case it's most of my extended family as well. Even now out of college I have a hard time relating to most other people here, because when I do find other areligious people, it seems like everyone who didn't grow up mormon grew up a different flavor of christian, or has family who's super religious. It's why I find it so interesting to learn about people's experiences in the church if they're willing to share (like these videos), but it's also pretty isolating when literally everyone you and your family knows is coming from this context like mormonism that they can't even really tell you about. The most bizarre for me has been if I try to explain that half my family is jewish but non-practicing, because what little understanding of judaism I have is so divorced from however the hell they were taught about it (and has resulted in "friends" trying to pressure me into conversion several times because they're trying to "help" or whatver). I did have a cousin on that side who converted to mormonism, and I think for my family it was like the reverse of someone leaving the church lmao... everyone was like...... why would you do that to yourself
I’m 13 and I never really believed in the church. When I was eight I was never given the choice if I wanted to be baptized even thought my parents said they gave me a choice. All of the other girls in my young women’s group all have been in the temple, I have not. I don’t feel comfortable having the meeting with the bishop to get my temple recomed and I stopped going to class but I still have to go to church. I made a decision that I would never have any of the blessings or do any of the ceremonies when I get older and when I turn 18 I’m going to leave the church. Also I’m bi but haven’t told my parents because the Mormon church is homophobic. Also I have seen the garments before because I’m the person in my household who does the most laundry so I’ve seen my parents garments before.
I was about your age when I started to really question the church and kind of wanted to stop believing. I didn't stop until I was 15, though, because I was too scared. I have been to the temple to do baptisms for the dead and I found it weird, creepy, and I just remember feeling sick and scared while I was there, similar to how I felt at my own baptism when I was eight. You really didn't miss out on anything at all. None of these things I was given a choice to do, my parents basically forced it on me using fear tactics (saying they'd be disappointed, I wouldn't go to heaven, taking my things away because I made a bad choice, etc). I attended church until I was 19 and was able to start picking up shifts at work on Sundays. I haven't gone since.
I have been questioning my sexuality, wondering if I'm bi (have been since I was 14 honestly) but I have never had the strength to explore it. I've been going to therapy a lot and I think the trauma is kinda preventing me from thinking too much about it tbh. I tried to come out to by (queer) siblings and they laughed at me saying I was "too straight" so that also discouraged me. Either way, I will never come out to my parents to let them know I'm even questioning it because they say some truly vile homophobic stuff constantly.
I just want you to know that I'm proud of you for being you and for taking care of yourself. I don't believe in God anymore, dunno if you do either, but I've always thought that if God does exist and did create each and every person, then aren't we supposed to be exactly as we are? After all, God supposedly doesn't make mistakes. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you're perfectly how you were meant to be as you are, there isn't anything wrong with you despite what others might say, and I just want to make sure you know that. I hope you've got a good support system in friends or maybe other family members and someday you can fully escape from them. Stay safe and keep stay strong, you'll get there!
Edit: wanted to add about the bishop interview...it's insanely uncomfortable. Even if you're not a victim of SA, it is awful. It's so disgusting that an old man claiming to be holy has to know if you're having sex or sexual thoughts. It's so perverse, especially since you're locked in a room with him by yourself. I will never get my temple recommend renewed ever again even if I did still believe because I felt so icky.
Catholic here 👋 - this is actually not wildly different from one of the RCIA rites for adults who are converting to Catholicism. (I can’t remember which one) It includes a list of specific body parts that receive the sign of the cross, although we don’t include breasts or loins!
Difference being that our catechumens go through months of classes first so they know what to expect, and the person actually touching them is their sponsor, who they get to choose. Also if happens in public in front of the entire congregation, and everyone is wearing their normal church clothes.
Hannah, there is no connection or comparison between the Mormon cult and any Catholic practices. When Mormons try to convert Catholics to Mormonism, they invent false comparisons to lure the Catholics away. It is mormon mockery of true Christianity.
The sacrament of the sick, which is not only for RCIA (which it is also no longer called) is no secret, but Hollywood loves to incorrectly call it “the last rites” even though the word “death” isn’t now and has never been part of the sacrament.
There is never any inappropriate touching involved, but there is anointing of the head, perhaps facial features and limbs with a small amount of blessed chrism (a kind of paste-like olive oil). The sacrament of the sick is offered to anyone in imminent danger of death, and if that is the case is becomes known as “extrem unction’ where the “last rites” notion comes from. But it is also combined with final reception of holy communion and a very special priestly apostolic blessing reserved only for that use.
The practice of sacramental anointing with holy oil in the sacrament of the sick does make me wonder where Smith got the idea.
Yes it is different
or confirmation which you take a year + of classes for, and it's a big ocassion where family comes to watch and stuff like that... none of this cult secrets and scaring people into not talking after
Yes, the secrecy is huge in making this feel uncomfortable. I am Episcopalian and we share a lot with Catholicism and we have a lot of symbolism and ceremony, that if we were secretive about, would make it feel uncomfortable as well. Nothing we do is secret, so instead it just feels very traditional, coming from long ago, and not looked at as odd, but at most, outdated.
Can't compare! I am Roman Catholic and I can't think of one ceremony that would include improper touching.
@@virginiasanchis1717 that's what they were saying. That even though both religions have lots of symbolism and ceremony one is open about what goes on and wants to share while the other is a cult that hides the truth and scares their initiats into not talking about it.
I was a convert back in the late 1980's. Was rebaptised for my soon to be second wife. I considered the LDS church just another mainstream religion with some differences. Never sought a temple recommend because I new it would not be. I had a major tithing issue with how the "church" pushed it so hard. Went to a couple "tithing settlements" that didn't go so well. Never went to any more. Soon began to skip church. My LDS wife didn't like it much. At the 10 year mark we divorced and that was the end of my church going regardless of denomination. I still study different religions and lately have become intrigued with "reincarnation" and reading about near death experiences. My wife never shared any of the "secret" ordinances with me even though I asked. Thanks for what you are doing here. 🥰
Why do you want to know from this video. Do you think you'll get right answers? Duh...
"Another mainstream religion"? No it ain't! More like a CULT
Failure in marriage and in faithfulness. Intrigued only.
We always heard stories about "magic underwear", but could never confirmation from any Mormons we knew.
Any responses usually were laughter followed by denials.
As an ex-mo, I can confirm that even when I was a PRIEST (15-18+ years old) they never ever told us about this.
You have to look deep and if you bring it up, they'll say that you're being corrupted by satan.
Pretty common tactic for hiding something without lying is being extremely specific about things to the point that someone can ask a question and as long as they don't word it in just the right way, you can give an answer that you consider true but that hides the thing you don't want to reveal. In this case, if you called "magic underwear" they are absolutely going to laugh and say no, because they don't see it as "magic" they see it as "holy" or "blessed" or "sacred" or whatever they want to say. Another part of this is hearing an entire account of something, finding one thing about the account that might be a mistake or doesn't sound quite right, then declaring the entire account false.
Okay. So I almost converted when I was 18… and going through a REALLY tough time in my life. And I didn’t because my mom was super against it.
And I am so so grateful I found your channel.
It's interesting how you mentioned they dont stop and explain the meaning behind everything. When i was a christian and getting confirmed, i had to attend weeks and weeks of classes first. They went through all the symbology but also gave us various exercises to understand the faith better, including questioning the faith. The idea was you couldn't be confirmed without informed consent. This was in the Anglican section of the church in the uk, im not sure what it's like elsewhere.
I can't imagine what it would feel like to go into the confirmation, not having the lessons first - i would be so nervous and afraid...and thats with seeing people take communion every week as a kid! What must it be like to go in, not informed, never seeing or talking about it before, no idea what the next thing that is going to happen. Even if you didnt believe, that would be nerve-wracking, but if this were your faith? You wouldnt want to blaspheme or fail god etc etc and it would make you question what have you believed all along?
If you think of starting school, university or even a new job, what do we do ahead of time? Research what's going to happen. We prepare children for what the day will look like, reassure them, settle them in. You are right, it's the secrecy that makes this far worse. At best, it's unkind, at worst...well we can clearly see, they are genuinely taking your voice and consent away.
I was thinking about my own confirmation (Methodist, US, very similar to the Anglicans).
Our parents were involved on some meetings. We practiced our future role as an acolyte, we had work sheets, we were encouraged to ask questions, we had group discussions. There were no secrets or suprises.
The most surprising thing to me in this video is that the children of a very devoted Mormon family had absolutely no idea what was going on or what anything meant. How is that possible?
(EDIT: This secret ritual is in line with the missionary work of expecting a person to join a new religion with only a 15 minute conversation. It's all part of their MO.
Coffee will be devil bean juice forever in our house now 😂
Raised catholic here. Adah is such a good name that if I was given that name, I would be angry I couldn't use it irl. No longer a catholic and didn't get confirmed, but that's why choosing a confirmation name yourself is better than this system. No one is stopping you from using a confirmation name in the world, making it your middle name or using it as a pen name. Religious ceremony should feel exciting and like something you want to share, if faith is important to you, not like a secret.
I personally feel very upset with the confirmation name I chose. At the time I was attending Catholic school, and fully believed all the sexist, purity culture crap they were telling us.
I was fully convinced that I had to remain a virgin until marriage, and that the world was a corrupt place that would try and tempt me astray. I chose St. Agnes, because she is the patron saint of young women and of chastity.
Now as an adult I feel very uncomfortable with my choice. I understand the Catholic Church is a very misogynistic institution (St. Thomas Aquinos compared women to pigs!). I wish I could redo the ceremony and choose St. Joan of Arc instead. She was who I was going to choose prior to the misogynistic lectures on Theology of Body.
My family moved to Brigham City Utah when I started highschool. We were completely ostracized not being Mormon. The kids in school were so mean. If you aren't Mormon they will look down on you and hate you.
In Confirmation in the Catholic Church, you also get a new name, called your Confirmation name, which is the name of a saint, and this is the name the bishop addresses you by when you are confirmed with the gift of the Holy Spirit (you choose it though, rather than it being assigned to you like in the Mormon church). When you stand in front of the bishop with your sponsor behind you with their hand on your shoulder, your sponsor says your chosen Confirmation name, and the bishop says “(Your chosen Confirmation name), be sealed with the gift of the Holy Spirit” while anointing your forehead with the consecrated oil in the shape of a cross.
Sarah, there is no connection between the mormon cult and any Catholic or Christian faith practices.
@@Charity-vm4btpretty sure she was directly comparing the Mormon practice of an assigned name being imposed by someone “having authority” (whatever that means) as part of their formal acceptance rituals; with the Catholic practice of choosing a saint by name, whose name becomes associated with your own in the Catholic sacrament of confirmation.
As a Catholic this doesn’t invalidate your given name and there is absolutely nothing secret about it at all.
I thought that comparison was the relevance.
Yeah, but it doesn’t mean much
You are an incredible lady. I grew up surrounded by Mormons and always frowned upon because my family was not. I survived and blessed I was strong enough to shield myself from these bizarre group of people.
The home I was raised in was deeply dysfunctional, but largely irreligious. I felt more pressure from my peers in my very average suburb to be religious than I ever felt from my parents. From that context, I want to say, thank you so much for sharing these experiences. I have been weary of any branch of Christianity that attempts to influence members' political beliefs, and the more they do that the more red flags they're flying for me. So I had always classified Mormons on the "cultier" end of the spectrum in my mind, but I had absolutely no idea how horrific that actual ceremony is. I guess I understand what the obsession with queer people is with them now, but the bigotry I've heard coming out of that church is just shocking.
Thank you for bringing more attention to this. Thank you for sharing your experience, and shining a light on the experiences of others. Thank you everyone in these comments for engaging with it and talking about what you went through. That takes a strength that I really admire, as someone who's had to pull through an entirely different set of trauma. I hope that every day brings a new joy and a new moment of freedom for you.
I was going to suggest you make your own audiobook! Glad you're one step ahead of me there, keep it up.
I would love a video of you reacting to The Book of Mormon Broadway show. What’s a correct portrayal vs what’s just for laughs?
It's 95% correct. There are a few minor errors or some artistic freedom to make the play work. E.g. missionaries are regularly getting a new partner. It would however not work in the musical to change the main characters. Doctrinally, God doesn't live on a planet called Kolob, but Kolob is the sun of the planet where God lives. You will find maybe a handful of these super minor errors, the rest is hilarious, but spot on.
well for one thing uganda is not anything like that in real life 🙄 it's bizarre that such an egregiously racist and cruel show has become one of the most popular musicals. what did the ugandans ever do to deserve such a thing
A very good friend of mine who is LDS was visiting and was going to drive home on Christmas. My wife and I were going to high mass, which is the highest form of religious celebration. He said: "If it was allowed I would have liked to see the Mass." I told him it was certainly allowed, that he may not take communion, but can go up to the Priest with his hands on his chest and will get a blessing but not communion. He asked whether he had to leave for the "secret" parts of the ceremony. He was absolutely shocked that there were no secret parts of the ceremony and that nothing that is done in the Catholic Church is off limits to anyone except not actually receiving communion. He came with us for mass and was simply astounded that it was all open for all to see and even to be part of and that he could get in the communion line and be blessed by the priest.
I am really confused about the underwear. If anyone from the church wanted to get involved with my daughter's underwear they would have been underground. Now it is true that anywhere there are kids there will be abuses. That is never acceptable. God knows the Catholic Church has had its issues. There is a lot of abuse in other denominations as well but the Catholic Church is the "big church" not independent like most protestant churches, so less is said about those. Also, something that is covered up by the education department is that a child is much more likely to be abused at public school than at church.
i looked up your claim about public schools and i did find a source saying it's more likely, but i also question that claim because in an educational environment, abuse is much more likely to be reported or discovered. in church environments, especially ones secretive like mormons, abuse goes unreported. this is backed up by the fact that the mormon church has an internal registry of sex offenders that it never reported to any governments and where those abusers were allowed to remain in the church and in positions of power where they could go on to continue to abuse. just because there is a statistic that confirms your bias doesn't mean it is true. i encourage you to question churches and religious organizations more.
One of my closest friends is exmo, I'm nevermo but due to being exvangrlocal/exbaptist and a bit obsessed with cult deconstruction we have a tradition of sending photos when we travel.to eacjother of them flipping one to temples and me to certain churches and together we bond over our deconstruction and loving ourselves and eachother in this more expansive forgiving life. Thank you for sharing your story ❤❤
Evangelical * but it won't let me edit 😂
If I had "prophet" power, I would 100% pretend God told me it was time to get rid of garments, make them optional, or (at minimum) redesign them. Fewer yeast infections, I'm sure.
I've only done the washing and anointing twice. First time was near when I got married in the temple. So many things happened during that time that I dont remember it too well... though the endowment session I do cuz tfat was just really something I wasn't expecting.
The second time I did washing and anointing was 2007 or 2008. I was living in married student housing by byu, and ward members were asked to volunteer to do this in the provo temple when I was there.
I guess you are supposed to be butt-naked under the cover they give you. I didn't remember that from my first time.
I was so devout at the time, that in my mind, I considered the temple garments (magical mormon underwear) a part of my body. So I considered myself naked while wearing them. The temple workers who were washing and anointing me asked me multiple times if I was naked underneath and delulu me smiled snd confidently said yes each time.
Afterwards I realized I wasn't supposed to be wearing my garments.
This apparently has changed since and people aren't naked under the covering anymore.
I do find it interesting that the temple workers can observe I was wearing underwear.
I only discovered you about a week ago, and binged all the long form videos. I’d love to see more of that. Maybe consider doing it as a podcast, that’d be super handy
I am also an Ex Mormon. I went through the temple but a couple years later I ended up needing a Service Dog. They don't allow Service Animals in the temple so I could never go back again. I called them about this and they said "Oh no problem, we can have someone go with you so you can find your way around" believing the reason I had a dog was because I was blind. The main reason I need a Service Dog is because of PTSD and Agoraphobia. Having someone go along to lead me around was even worse.
Mormans sure have to work hard to get to heaven. Didn’t Jesus Christ die and raise on the 3rd day to give all that simply believe in him access to heaven. Not because people are good but because he is good.
That’s how I understand it to be
It’s interesting to me how little American Christians seem to know about the history of their church and other denominations within their own religion. Lots of Christians don’t believe faith alone gets a person into heaven.
This is what Christ insisted we are at be
as a little child. It is because it is that easy to be one with Him.
@@myqueerplantfamily John 3:16 and John 14:6 don’t make it hard , it’s as simple as it is
Ugh. Jesus died so that we would be saved by simply believing, not following rules until you drive yourself insane. NO ONE can be "righteous enough"! That is why He did what we could never do! Mormonism and any other religion are social clubs based around rules; to simply follow Jesus and to know Him is freeing!!!
Commenting for the algorithm. I like your sweater.
It IS a nice sweater. And the curls are on point.
Love that you are bringing this information to the light and the internet!
I am an ex Mormon.. I am in my late 60s now I was in my 20s when you used to attend.. I had seen the temple garments drying on a clothes airer. But I did not comment as we weren't supposed to talk about them.. I respected the couple who I was staying with at the time with my son.. I had a lot of mental health problems, I suffered nightmares whilst attending the church.. I did manage to get away and although very curious I never went to the temple now I am glad I did not.. Keep up your good work
I didn't get my endowment but my family was sealed in the temple when I was about 10. It was probably different than a wedding sealing, we kneeled around what looked like a big ottoman and held hands while some old dude said a lot of religious suff. I don't remember a lot of the details besides the sisters being super sweet, I was really excited to be inside the beautiful building and see the people in the special clothes. It definitely feels peaceful in there, not sure about holy though. From what I heard about the endowment ceremony, I was terrified of it and really wasn't upset that I didn't get to experience it.
Forgot to mention, they make the kids change into 'temple clothes' for sealing ceremonies too, it was basically just a long white dress with long sleeves and a high neck line.
As a jewish nevermormon, the idea of the secrecy is so strange to me. How can you be told to believe in something when you dont even know what it is? Fascinating to learn about.
It is called esotericism. In Judaism, the esoteric teachings are called the Kabbalah. Actually, Kabbalah and Freemasonry are also connected.
we a told to believe in god, and to have faith, the more mystic mysterious, and magical, -- that's how the game works. Trust me. have faith. LOL
@@charlesmendeley9823Kabbalah isn’t really touched in most streams of Judaism.
The naked washing ceremony sounds like abuse and sexual assaults. That's so sick and disturbing. That's an invasion of your personal space and of your private areas.
Really... Your experience was not standard.
@@tomanisbet1747do some research: the early Mormon temple rituals came from Freemasonry and people were more naked in the 19th century.
They have changed alot from that time period.
That's why young Mormons will deny these temple rituals older Mormons actually went through.
I think it sounds like fun
No one ever touches your private parts in the temple. It is absolutely not true.
@@tomanisbet1747 how would you know that?
I have a Mormon friend that says it’s not secret it’s sacred 😂 cra cra
Cults do like to brainwash people...
I mean yeah. That is how we feel about it. It is sacred to us. I understand how people feel the way they do and I recognize how jarring the temple ordinances are without any kind of guidance about them. No doubt. But maybe have a little respect for your friend as this is important to them. Kind of rude to mock your friend, how do you think they would feel?
What happens if paramedics or other first responders need to enter the temple (like if someone receiving the washing and anointing has a heart attack) - would they be denied entry?
First responders have to be called to the temple in the first place.
I've read accounts of temple workers carrying people in a medical emergency to the doors, and in fact at least one person has died of a heart attack because of this. The paramedics were left waiting at the door and people were trying (unsuccessfully) to drag the person down the stairs and out of the building. They take their cult exactly this seriously. (I'm an ex-mo, and thankfully never went through the temple. It's been 26 years since I left, and I really dodged a bullet!)
Everything you have said its absolutely true, the high levels of dedication and if you have doubt to pray about it and to not question things and its okay to question but to not know the answer is also ok as long as you keep doing what the church says its such a huge mind fuck I totally agree... Ugh gives me shivers hearing you talk about it because im just going right back to being a little girl with so many questions but basically being brainwashed
I was a convert for a year and I was never given this whole information.
Newly joined the church,they never gave me such info ,just feel played
What are the specifics of how tithings are paid/organised/verified?
Does anyone check your financial records and who knows specifics on how much a member is paying?
Are there ever any concessions or support for low income members who may be struggling to pay tithings?
Thanks Alyssa!
Couple years ago, I had a friend open up to me about her experience as a Mormon growing up in a Mormon household in Utah. She was molested by the elders of the church, and when she had came out about it, she was silenced immediately. She was threatened terribly. It was a very sad story and all I could do is just sit there and cry with her. 😢
@@coachrandie5491 liar.
i'm so sorry that she had to go thorugh this horror... i hope she has a psychological support and also i'm so glad that she trust you so much that she could share her trauma ❤️
By all the elders of the church? Just based on your wording, I would say you are probably making this up. That said, a female friend of mine was going back into the church and made the mistake of telling her bishop that she had not been chaste.. This led her being put into a room with a bunch of very old men who asked very specific questions...how many times did she have sex? What did she do (specifically) to the male? What did he do to her? All with follow-up questions where they wanted more detail. She left that meeting wondering how many of them were going to go home and jack off to what they had heard that day.
My abuser was protected by the church and was taken back with open arms. A lot of my (deeply LDS!!) family also protect him. It's so sickening to me, especially since I was a very young child and needed them to be protecting me from him, not the other way around. That was my very first huge reason to dislike the church once I started remembering exactly what happened to me when I was around 12. The other was my baptism and being very disappointed that it didn't live up to the hype all the other kids had told me to expect. I felt cold, miserable, scared, and like I was being drowned. Didn't feel clean or warm or "the spirt" at all. Just felt awful.
@@ReverieOfThorns liar.
I LOVE your comment about religion putting women down. It needs to be said by all faiths. I am an Ex-Evangelical where submission and obedience takes precedence over safety. Just yesterday, I made a comment to a Muslim about active FGM in that sector.
My point in all of this is that women are harming women in the name of religion. We are never going to reach the men because no matter which religion (cult) the "holy" words give them carte blanche to do and be whatever.
Women need to protect women and they need to break from religious dogma that suffering is holy. It does not matter what religion. The Muslim woman was offended unable to see past mind control to harm of women and children. Women are not men's play things and baby making machines. Our children are not theirs for the taking. I will let the last sentence permeate for meaning.
Maybe someday, get a collection of women who left the most predominate faiths for a gathering of stories that might make a difference in transforming women from second class (barely) to powerful women who use their cult community to change things from the inside and out. (Not me, I am a terrible public speaker).
I was familiar with magic initiation ceremonies as someone I had dated was Wiccan. I remember thinking how similar the initiation ceremony in Mormonism was to the Wiccan one. Knowing more about the original ceremony as done by Joseph Smith, and taking his folk magic roots into account, I am convinced that the initiation ceremony is just a folk magic initiation ceremony from his time.
good paragraph, I see what you are saying.