How I Told My Husband I Wanted to Leave the Mormon Church
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So many people end up getting divorced after leaving the Mormon Church. I feel so lucky to have married someone who loved me regardless of my religious beliefs. We'll be answering questions below! Let us know what we missed in the interview.
A few videos that may interest you:
*My Mormon endowment explained video: ( • Secret Mormon Temple C... )
*Mormon garments explained video: ( • Mormon Garments Explained )
*Every rule I followed as a Mormon: ( • Every Rule I Followed ... )
*My Mormon mission was a waste: ( • Mormon Missions Explai... )
*Complete story of my Mormon wedding: ( • Mormon Temple Weddings... )
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Was waiting for this video ❤ love your content
Would you and jackson ever do a remake of the gay marriage conversation? Like a video of it? I think it would help stop homophobia to have something like that out there ❤ maybe open other people's minds like it did yours ❤
Also why don't you guys "redo vows" and do the wedding you guys wanted ❤ I think you both deserve to get what you want on your special day ❤
Lol right after I commented that you said about it 😂❤
39ish mins I think I could also be just from getting married because of the religion like "God" wants you to get married before a certain age or your parents. Then when they leave they realize they were only together because of being kinda forced within the religion. Which is good I think it means they aren't going to stay in a unloved marriage. I think you guys got lucky because you actually fell in love when dating ❤
"Not once in the process of leaving the church did I consider divorcing you." Real man right there, loyal all the way. His point about mental flexibility was really well put. Y'all are a beautiful couple!
He is a real man, for sure ;) and that's real love! I know he would love me if I stayed forever or if I left. His love for me wasn't about religion to begin with.
@alyssadgrenfell for a sec there thought 🤔 you and your sister shared in laws
@@alyssadgrenfellThat seems like the key to me. My husband and I also left a religion that had been the heart and center of our life--first he left and then both of us. Our marriage fell apart soon after, but not because of the process of leaving the church or disagreeing about religion. It made us realize that we had been leaning hard on the faith to cover over deep values differences. Even though we still loved each other, there was no real foundation for a shared life anymore.
I think another facet for mutual divorce could be that if you weren't Mormon or another faith the promotes early marriage that you probably wouldn't have ever gotten married. I remember being 17 and picking out names for our children with my high school sweetheart, and once I left the church I couldn't even fathom having kids. She was incredible and we were deeply in love for a while, but we were so wrong for each other and our religion blinded us of that.
@@alyssadgrenfell ❤ you guys as a couple. I reasoned my way out of the church earlier in life, but it's nice to see the commonalities (like realizing "the spirit" ain't shit)
That party is hilarious! I’m imagining it as something from a nature documentary.
“The single Mormon males are all seeking the attention of the Mormon female. One, in order to reclaim her attention, one brings sustenance to distract the other males. His ploy is successful, and he claims the spot next to her on the couch.”
"Their prey; Cesar's pizza. One of the finest options for the Mormon specimens."
This narrated by Werner Herzog would take a dark turn fast
LOL
Did you offer her a piece of cheese?
Narrated by David Attenborough
My grandma was exmormon and while living in Utah being a single mom she helped women and young girls that wanted to leave the Mormon church because of a marriage that their father or family set them up with and had no other choice but to marry. She'd give them a place to stay and help them get back on their feet, she was a badass❤️
She sounds wonderful.
Wow what a great grandma.
I didn't really care for my grandma she wasn't that great of a person.
@@UlexiteTVStoneLexiteyeah old ppl tend to be really sweet or total cunts lol
That is my definition of a good woman!
❤❤
omg you guys have such a healthy relationship literal goals
Thank you so much! It was so fun to have him on the channel, usually I'm just alone so it was very great to have him join and do this together ❤
@@alyssadgrenfellthis is one of my favorite videos of yours!!
"Nah, I talked to God about it. We're cool." The most badass response he could have come back with.
Simpsons line
My wife and I left the check church after 45 years. That was 10 years ago, and we discussed having a view renewal that is more like a “real” wedding, finally, last year, my wife and I did a 30th anniversary vow renewal. Wedding dress, new suit, new wedding ring professional photographer, the whole 9 yards. Wedding reception at a banquet hall on the beach (including open bar, to the horror of our Mormon parents), then a honeymoon cruise down to Mexico. It was awesome! We got married the right way our second time!
Highly recommend you do it (kind of costs a lot of $$ though, prepare for that)
Read the Scriptures about marriage and you find everything you did is all pagan.
I love that! Hope all is going well! ❤️
@@user-mv7rb5hj9mReally? You’re going to bring religion back into this? I don’t care if it was Pagan, Buddhism, Flying Spaghetti Monster, whatever. I could invite anyone I wanted, and didn’t need an ecclesiastical authority to approve their attendance.
In other words, I don’t give a flying rats a$$ what the Bible says that my vow renewal was. I was there. It’s what my wife and I wanted. It was beautiful.
since you are used to that tithe amount being subtracted from your operational/disposable income; take that amount and invest in yourself. Especially with interest rates they way they are now. It won't take long to be able to afford the wedding of your dreams.
Many religions don't like when you ask too many questions and don't like when you decide to think on your own
I'm going to give an example as to why gay people need to be married.
In Florida, a lesbian was forced to die alone. Her wife and adopted children were kept out of the room because the dying woman's homophobic bio family kept them out. Her wife was not family. Her adopted children were not family. Marriage would have prevented that cruel and crushing grief.
Deplorable 😮
There are also numerous cases of the family of a gay person completely rewriting their life to a "cleaned up" version for their obituary that removes any mention of life partners etc. It's terrible.
It’s also why it’s important to legally adopt your children. We didn’t realise that in our country you can’t adopt an adult and we had to get a tonne of paperwork done so that I have something approaching the legal rights of a genetic child
That happens to lots of people 😢or similar
I believed gay people should be able to marry even when I was a wingnut fundamentalist Christian. Because civil marriage has nothing to do with God's sacrament -- that was how I saw it. To me, enforcing religious standards on civil marriage undermined the first amendment and therefore threatened my own freedom of religion.
I'm an atheist that has never been mormon or even interacted with anyone from the mormon church but your videos are so fascinating to me that i can't stop watching them. It's so rare to get such a detailed look into what actually happens in the mormon faith from someone as eloquent and transparent as you and your husband are. So happy for you both that you followed your own path and stayed true to your relationship through all of it!
Talk about a dictatorship. Wow that’s manipulating and Abusive to treat others like the church does. Your wedding day. Omg. I so happy you two are free and loving life. You’re amazing humans. ❤
Go to South Lake Tahoe to renew your vows. The glass chapel overlooking the trees and lake are stunning. And you can any kind of ceremony you want. Plus a beautiful second honeymoon.
Most of my close friends growing up were (and still are are) Mormon. I had a lot of exposure and went to church and events with them but I’m as unreligious as a person gets so I was always just kinda shrugging at the weird things they did. I was actually so unreligious that they never even tried to convert me, lol. The more I learn though and the older I get, the more I just smh. Religion is just all about control and the LDS church is definitely one of the most controlling.
@@somanykittiesMy youth was just like yours. I still love my Mormon friends, but I also feel so sad that they never really had any say in what they believe, and I wonder how much more they would have flourished and developed as their authentic selves if they hadn’t been born into the church.
You most likely have known many mormons. I mean how often do you ask people what religion they are? It’s not like they look any different than any other religion.
I honestly feel like in all the other mormon pics I've seen of Alyssa, her eyes don't have the sparkle and emotion that you can clearly see in the engagement photos. Clearly, you two have something special! ❤
I noticed it too. Looks like her eyes sparkle. The eyes are the windows to your soul. When she was in the Church, she looked souless or just going through what the church doctrine teaches Day to day. Way too much repression to adhere to day to day. It's seems like living through a mine.
From NPC to main character
Happens with a lot of cult like religions. You aren't living for yourself, but for your faith and community. There is no "self", but only what you can do for the faith.
Not Mormon nor have I ever been but it took me a long time to realize that the churchy burning in my bosom or the feeling in my stomach were anxiety and heartburn and eventually an ulcer
God works in listeriosis ways
@400_billion_suns
Awesome. Just awesome.
😜
I think you two deciding to drink coffee together the first time is absolutely the biggest moment. I think that's when you became spiritually sealed to each other for all eternity. That moment is sacred because you examined your beliefs and moved through them together.
There’s so much love in the way you look at each other. It’s rare to see love that just “radiates” off a couple- but it totally does. It’s amazing how you guys started out in a cult and yet here you are😂 absolutely thriving!
Thank you so much for this comment, it means a lot :) 8 years and two kids later we've been on a wild ride, and it feels like we're only getting started!
If you'd have stayed, you'd have to strike that, reverse it, with 8 kids in 2 years. 😅
@@alyssadgrenfell Your children are so lucky to have parents who left the cult.
31:20 Tithing off of net income is how he was able to afford to win your heart with Little Caesars Pizza at the Alyssa Games, though. 😅
Lmao I was thinking the same thing. Financial King!
Sometimes you have to choose wisely in life 😀
All that Thithing nonsense in USA. Keeping churches and pastors rich in all kind of religions😒 keeping poor people even more poor without this money. Mammon is a strong god still and believe Me this was not in Jesus image
When I asked my parents about Joseph smith’s polygamy and pointed out that he was in his 30’s when he married the 14yo, mom said “it was a different time, girls getting married young was normal then.” What was actually normal was you women married young men, not men twice their age.
Even the whole "people just married young back then" is not true.
Some people married as teenagers, but that was very much the exception. And even then only really in high society.
A 30 year old man marrying a random 14 year old would have definitely been seen as wrong.
@Faolan42
People throughout history have always partnered up/married somewhere between 17-28. The man is usually a few, but not a whole lot of years older than the woman. Not always though.
Why we think women/girls married very young is because royals and leaders betrothed their very young (like 12-14) women/girls to men ranging in ages from 16-70 for alliances and stuff like that.
And history was written by/about the people in power. So we look at that and think thats the way it was.
But it wasnt. Common people were kind of just like us. They partnered up in their late teenage years to late 20s, to people generally around the same age.
I would love to hear more about Jackson’s story and his Mormon experience! (If he’s willing to share of course!)
Very interesting to hear they offer classes to prepare Mormons to counter criticisms of the church. Also it’s so funny Jackson called it Defense Against the Dark Arts lol
Who’s offering classes? Is this being done at the meeting house? Just for rank and file members?
Just read between the lines of that religion and you’ll get a great awakening!
Apologist tendencies in religion have always been the enemy of sincere attempts at understanding, understanding people different from you, the world in general. Mormons really haven't invented such teachings, neither are they the only ones with those tendencies, although they integrated them really well in their brainwashing procedures.
Still, in Europe these would largely not be successful nowadays, so you really have to question what makes the US such fruitful soil for such ideas and preying on potential converts.
i had a similar class when i was studying Biologie (in the Netherlands). i don't remember what it was called. one part of it was how to talk to journalists or animal activists and defend animal testing. i'm a vegan now.... funny how these things sometimes go
You've become a teacher, but not in the way you thought you'd be ❤
Nice point.
I admire the way you offer your views without being offensive. Nice teacher quality!
I was raised a Jehovah’s Witness after 65 years when I realised it was not the so-called Truth. What made it excruciating for me my husband had just been diagnosed with cancer. Sadly we lost him within weeks so when I needed my faith, my family, my friends I had nothing. I’ve lost everything, but I cannot return no matter the cost. I’m so happy you have each other and friends to rebuild your life
If I may be curious, what allows you to carry on as you are? What gives you your strength? How are you now?
You do indeed have SUCH STRENGTH! I am so sorry you need every ounce of it right now 😢
May your future be brighter... 💞💞💞💞💞💞🩷🩷🩷🩷🩷🩷🩷
Be well. best wishes.
So happy you were able to see the truth and get out. Sending light, love, and well wishes your way
@user-xg8hq1fc1c and what religion do you belong to? Oh, that's right, none.
Renewing your vows in “Sin City” seems like the perfect venue for your post-LDS life together.
@mikegirard4388 "Renewing your vows in “Sin City” seems like the perfect venue for your post-LDS life together.'
I just LOVE when self-righteous judgmental people like you comment ...
Otherwise people might get the mistaken idea from watching Alyssa's videos that mormons are decent (if misguided) people.
Ironically, for a long time Vegas was about the most Mormon city outside Utah.
y’all are so cute!! love how hubby constantly is hyping up alyssa🤍
I know :) I love when he shared the book. I'm not crying, you're crying 🥹🥹
@@alyssadgrenfellY’all got me giggling and kicking my feet with how obviously in love y’all are. Like at 23:45?? SIR??? Why am i feeling flustered?? I’m so glad you two found each other and hope your family lives a happy life😤🥺
I admire you so much - I can’t imagine dating in the church then leaving together. It must take so much courage
Thank you so much. I wasn't easy but it made us stronger
Poor sap doesn't realize he'll be the next one to be left... she'll wake up one day and decide he's been "oppressing" her too
@@TJ-kk5zf projecting much??
@@jyots_na nope. I'm just calling a hypocrite hypocrite
@@TJ-kk5zfWhat a weird, unkind and bizarre comment. 🙄. They'll be fine. They're an awesome family and it's fun to watch their happy journey together.
Mixed faith marriage is not easy, and I’m SO glad I had accepted my husband’s non-belief before we got married. Now we’re both non-believing and HE made me feel safe to explore my beliefs and to know that he would be there further me either way. I very much relate to how Jackson would express ideas that opened up your mind, because my husband did that for me 100%.
Yeah same here. My religious beliefs (Presbyterian) were destroying my marriage and I had no idea. My husband was miserable. I was okay at the beginning of our relationship but years in I got way more extreme in my religion and my husband just never was religious. I finally found my way out and things have never been better.
I don't know what my life would be like now if I had not stayed with my husband and head look for someone that was more religious. Fortunately for me the religious man at my church had no interest in me at all😂😂😂. I had to find someone else 400 mi away instead
@@UlexiteTVStoneLexiteI have to admit that I have never heard of an extreme Presbyterian 😂
@@curtismartin2866 oh they are definitely out there.
@@curtismartin2866It depends on the congregation! At least in America, PCA is actually pretty hardcore conservative calvinist, while PCUSA is a lot more liberal both politically and in its approach to the doctrine
"I was also relieved on our wedding night" lolol
You mentioned in another video that your husband hasn't taken his name off the roll because he's trying to get the church to excommunicate him. I would love to hear more about that!
I can give some advice about that ...
Reporting to a bishop that a family member had molested my 11 year old son (accompanied by 100% proof) got me instantly excommunicated.
The perpetrator was told to have another baby (their third) to repair their marriage, moved into the Scouting program from being a Sunday school teacher (because being a pedophiles means you are not holy enough to teach Sunday School, but being a pedophile does not disqualify you from being a boy Scout leader [??? and this known pedophile remained in the mormon scout program for years]).
This person admitted to having had sex with a relative that was legally a minor and the mormon church decided to handle it as if if were 'an adulterous affair.' Bishops are given a great deal of 'discretion' in how (and even if) to acknowledge/discipline pedophiles.
@@marelinem541 Quiet liar. You've been proven a pretender long ago.
@@marelinem541 holy shit. I’m actually in shock reading this. I hope your son is okay, and that both of you are getting the support you need to heal bc. wow. and I thought the catholic church was bad 😢😢
@@marelinem541I know the Mormon church in our area keeps their own pack and troop. Please inform the BSA Council you are in about this man. They will have him removed from leadership. Im not sure how he got past the back groud check. This is terrifying.
He got thru the background check because no one within the church was allowed to report it, so it’s unlikely anyone outside the church knew about it - clearly no one reported it to the police (or if they did, you might be forgiven for thinking the police were “fine, upstanding” Mormons!!!
Good grief. Y’all are so in love. 🥰 You can’t stop giggling whenever you speak to your husband.
My dear, it’s great that she still giggles when she’s talking to her husband after all these years. It’s enduring and sweet and shows they’re still head over heels for each other. There’s so many toxic relationships out there and especially on SM so this is refreshing to see. Plus, they’re filming and technically talking to themselves so it’s gotta be a bit awkward which could make one giggle.
The way my skin CRAWLED when I heard the words "Thank you for your testimony sister."
I haven't heard those words in years, and my skin is actively crawling
Loved the chance to meet Jackson. What an intelligent and articulate partner. I appreciated what he added to a difficult conversation.
why not re-do more than the vows? have a full new ceremony the way you two want, not how anyone else wants (and wear a slightly not white enough dress lol)
Or a red dress!
@@linzraz9834I got married in red. Love it.
And a full coffee bar
Omg I was just thinking I wonder if she'll ever have her husband on the channel! I'm excited to watch!
Yes, here he is!! He's done a few short form videos with me but it was definitely time for a long form video. :D
@alyssadgrenfell thank you for replying to my comment! 🤩 it was a pleasure watching you two!
He's really got a good camera presence too. If he wanted to make a podcast etc. obviously only if he wants to, but he could.
I’m so jealous of couples that leave together it actively makes me angry. I hate being married to a Mormon, but love my wife.
I get it. I hope she comes to see the truth soon!! The evidence is overwhelming. Sending love 💛
I feel for you. I can't imagine being in love with someone who wouldn't allow me to be myself and vice versa. I hope she wakes up and I hope you can one day be yourself without judgment from your partner.
Jackson kept saying how Alyssa was a catch but hes a catch aswell. You two saved eachother from living a restricted life
Left the Mormon church when I was 12, just felt like BS to me. Years later they sent me a letter asking me to update my information for the temple and I wrote them back saying just please drop me from the Church as I was never interested in being a Mormon. They wrote me back saying I was going to hell. I was recovering from Encephalitis from the flu, Pneumonia and the chicken pox at the time. I told them it was too late I was already in hell, just get me off their records I refuse to be a Mormon. LOL... Jeeze. I don't even believe in hell...
I think it is sad that Jesus id used for pover and control. I am not religious but it is still hard to see
I was done with them by time I was 6 ...
The mormon response to any question asked was to say (in front of the whole Sunday school class) that surely the devil / Satan had made me ask the question, and NEVER, not once, made any attempt to answer the question. So you learn that asking anything is pointless.
You guys have incredible energy and chemistry. Its easy to see. Glad you both are doing well. Great channel!
Thank you so much :) 8 years and two kids 💚💚
Words are powerful. In a way, your father's "blessing" has come true. You are being a powerful and highly effective teacher--showing people new paths to personal growth and enlightenment.
“You are on a marriage assembly line…made for speed and efficiency” Perfect description! Our “sealer” told us to never spend a night apart - my husband had just graduated from medical school and we were facing having to spend every third night apart for his internship year. Now when I think back to my wedding day - that memory is the biggest one! We both just groaned internally. Nobody took the trouble to even get to know us so our wedding was a freaking rubber stamp. Pathetic
I am an atheist who comes from conservative laestadian community. It's a lutheran christian revival movement mainly in Finland, in which they believe only conservative laestadians will get to heaven and have a lot of rules (no tv, no movies, no popular culture, no rhythmic music, no dancing, no make up, no piercings, no dying hair, no nail polish, no birth control, ofc no alcohol) and while its not mormonism, so much of what you were talking about hit home... You described the feeling of truly believing in the religion and once not, everything falling apart and feeling unable to attend the church. I lived for couple of years pretending to be laestadian while i really wasnt in my heart and i felt so horrible all the time. Once i denied my faith, i couldnt even bring myself to pray bc before it wasnt about the community as much as it was about truly feeling connected with god, and without that it felt just empty and that feeling was scary. Also learning about the history of my church, the huge amount of times it had branched off, the straight up cults derived from it and the older very culty features it used to have, it was a read that made me truly question how can this one branch of all of these branches in finland far from everything else be the only correct one? Only answer people had was to not listen to the "reason/brain" bc it was actually the devil, but have a child-like belief. All the doubts were forgiven and you just had to ask forgiveness when in doubt and never think them further.
Idk, i felt so understood by this video even though mormonism and laestadianism are very different things. Your trying coffee together moment reminded me of when i tried some eyeliner for the first time, or dancing to a rhythmic music in my bed room, seemingly a tiny thing yet such a huge thing for me. With my background I rarely find creators who i can relate this much. Thank you
That is interesting! I'd never heard of fundamentalist Lutheranism. I was raised evangelical Lutheran in the US. In my 30s I think is when I began questioning my beliefs and came to different ideas. I was able to slowly develope my own beliefs which don't include church dogma but became my spirituality.
When my daughter was younger we had neighbors that were Mormon, they weren’t the most strict practicing ones but the daughter invited my daughter to some young women’s thing or whatever that they did every other Wednesday. the first one wasn’t too bad but the second one before the girls got out to the car the woman that was running the whole thing politely I told my neighbor that it would be best if my daughter didn’t come back when she asked why the lady told her that my daughter was too opinionated. Apparently at some point my daughter said I’ve never had religion and I never will and a couple of the other girls said something along the lines of what does she mean she’s never had religion. I’ve often wondered if she changed any lives that day.
Research the meanings of religion and you’ll know why.
If your husband feels comfortable on camera, we would love more videos with you both. Your combined energy is brightening my day.
Merchant idea! Joseph Smith shot glasses and coffee cups.
Brilliant, another church money maker. Surprised they haven’t thought of it before.
@@user-mv7rb5hj9mwho cares, if capitalism can ruin me, I can profit off of one of the biggest money making scams in history 😅
You sparked a really intense interest in Mormonism for me I've delved into other religions before but not nearly as much as I have with LDS your videos are amazing!
Please don't take it as an invitation to join, though, unless you are absolutely _SURE_ of what it means.
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When my lonely, widowed mother was enticed to join by a new friend and the missionaries started working on her, they *never* told her about the way the LDS (Mormon) afterlife works, how very good LDS get to be a genuine God, too, and get their own planet to lord over and that men are encouraged to have many more wives than Joseph Smith ever dreamed of in order to have 1,000s of offspring.
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If they had told her about those aspects before sucking her in, she would have run for the hills! It was hard enough for her to accept the science-denying because up until then, all she ever read (and read to me) were books about science, discovery, exploration - including evolution. She knew evolution to be rock solid true and struggled to rationalize it with the church's teachings. It was sad to see.
@@MossyMozart oh dear god no. I was raised Hindu and when my non believing brother introduced the concept of evolution (I was 6/7 he was about 12/13) thankfully youtube was around) I asked my mother about it and she completely rejected it and said god made everything. As I grew up and became more vocal and strong minded I hated that women were considered dirty and not worthy of touching statues of god or entering a mundhir(Temple) due to menstruating I did also learn that the native people of the India reigon who developed Hinduism believed in science and appreciation of natural beauty. Also in orignal scripture and core beliefs of hinduism we shouldn't have idols or engage in consumerism and pollution but many "religous" events and practices involved dressing statues in tiny clothes and dumping them into rivers. Knowing my mother who was raised Hindu and any priest who specialised in teaching Hinduism couldn't answer my questions on karma and evolution and science I knew as a woman who believed in science and respect I couldn't practice it. I believe that religon is an aspect of humanity's history and cultural beliefs eg roman gods, greek gods, Aztec gods ect.
Growing up Mormon, and not believing makes me feel weird. I just want to tell everyone around me how fake it is. But by doing this I could affect so many people who I grew up with, and their perspectives of me. There’s so many strangely Mormon things that are kind of isolating.
Don’t hesitate, they must own their feeling , no apologies needed.
I mean every single word of this, you are NOT responsible for other people's feelings ❤
You're so well articulated and the way you can think outside of the box you were born into, it really shows what integrity you have.
11:26 the pizza story is genius!!
It's a little hilarious that your Capstone project (and the thing which broke your shelf) was a flowchart of Joseph Smith's body count 💀
Alyssa, "the Satanic Panic?" Could you do a little video about what that was? This was a really fun video - I totally cracked up about the D&D risk. Your Jackson is a dear, so glad you found him. I won my husband of 31 years in a role playing game.
The Satanic Panic wasn't limited to the Mormon church...it was basically the Salem witchtrials rebooted where a bunch of people got accused of being Satanists that ritually abused children, and people got so worked up about it that they started claiming things like DnD influenced kids to get into witchcraft and harm themselves. It got to the point that the FBI investigated...and surprise! they could find absolutely no evidence of satanic ritual abuse. Look up some more in-depth info about it, because it's wild, and you still see echos of it today.
I didn’t live through the bulk of it, but like Alyssa, I lived through a lot of the consequences. A lot of it came from an honest place of care that children were being abused as a part of "rituals". A therapist published a book about how his patient (later wife) has DID and that one in the system remembers being abused as part of a satanic ritual. From there, mass moral and religious histeria took over as people panicked about what would be a gateway that would lead impressionable young people to join Satanic groups and then they would be lead into SA, be sacrafically murdered, ect. And, this was the 80s-90s. Right when horror was hitting a stride in the mainstream, which made it seem all the more real for people because they were given this very realistic visual of what might happen to their kids should the Satanists gain control.
The Satanic Panic wasn’t just the Mormons. Evangelicals got really weird too. My neighbor in Canada was sure there were satanic spells being put on my son’s Teenage Mutant Turtles. She kept giving me books on demonic possession.
There are quite a few other videos on TH-cam that could probably say more about it than Alyssa could. Fun fact, one of Tom Hanks first roles was in Mazes and Monsters, a TV Movie based on a book by one of the people who first whipped up the hysteria about D&D
There is a podcast, called “You’re Wrong About” that did a episode on Satanic panic in May, 2018, and they are really really good at researching and validating their research. It wasn’t just Mormons impacted.
There is also an article in Culture on Vox, May 25, 2021, entitled “Why are we so worried about Satan?”
He is so well-spoken! Would love more videos with him and more videos about his story, esp growing up with one Mormon parent and one non-Mormon parent
Would love to see more longform videos with Jackson if he’s up for it! You two bounce off of each other’s thoughts so well. ❤
My ex wife was a teacher, her hopes and dreams of educating young people was shattered by the rudeness of kids, the rudeness of parents, and the rudeness of the entire school system. I don't see how teachers stay in the profession for more than a couple of years.
The rudeness of kids would not exist without the issues with school systems/parents. I think sometimes people put too much emphasis on blaming the kids bc tbh i dont think they really have that much control. But when u look at the history of public education in america its working exactly the way its meant to - really it was formed to make students into good factory workers.
@@AlexaSmith I am 55 and have been teaching since I was 22 and I have NEVER heard this! My parents, siblings, and one grandmother were teachers. I am talking about public schools, too. I am a product of public schools as are my children. I had to go google this because I have never heard this. Please do further research. Comments like this really hurt. Also it is the responsibility of states to fund and pass laws concerning public schools so a school in the southeast is very different from a school out west and that is okay, too. The US is huge and blanket public school statements (clergy and politicians are THE WORST) are so unfair. I apologize for my long statement, but your comment hit me much the same way as when a preacher says "public education is working exactly the way it's meant to since they took God out of the public schools" which just flies all over me.
@@jeni688 Really depends on the school and the person. I went to several different schools and in one the students had pretty much usurped the system. They were playing badminton in class, shouting and throwing things at teachers they didn’t like because they still insisted on, well, teaching. Once I was like guys stop throwing stuff at the teacher like this she is crying. I thankfully switched schools again pretty quickly because that school was wild. (My others schools were pretty normal.)
@@AlexaSmith Exactly, they're trained to be mindless slaves who don't ask questions.
It really depends on the school, the culture around the school, administrators, the school board, and the parents. In some schools, the administrators and parents are all very supportive of their teachers in general and they also do their part to make sure student issues are taken care of before they become issues.
Other times, it’s a situation where the kids of school board members are creating all the chaos, but administrators won’t do anything and they give the directive to the teachers to not do anything because the student’s parent is on the school board and the administrators are fearful of the school board.
Other times the general culture around the school is often from rich parents of kids they send to private school who are community leaders and often speak poorly of the public school and try to divert public funds from the public school for “performance issues,” further leaving the school expected to do more with less and the problem kids who are not doing well at the private school are kicked out and they have no option but to go to the public school further giving the illusion that the public school is the problem. I’ve seen this kind of nonsense play out.
A lot of the teacher turnover is related to being undervalued, underpaid, and under resourced, and their department may be underfunded in general. So they often leave for less stressful jobs for significantly more pay, so now the public schools are now under staffed further leading to additional performance issues, then it becomes a never ending spiral of defeat.
I heard John Dehlin say that getting a testimony is a process of convincing yourself. Spot on!
I love your teal nails with the matching color ring!
Yes. We leave and we learn this stuff that sounds crazy, and then we ask faithful members and we find out they've known all along, but they don't care 🤷🏻♀️ it's wild
The size of some of these folks' shelves has to be absolutely enormous
I have to believe they dont really believe. They stay in for the status the church gives them.
I was raised catholic and I lost my faith in third grade. I went to a friend’s non denomination church and they were talking about how people would go to hell for being gay. That same church called the cops on a homeless person for sitting in the back of the church. Hate had me leave
that testimony story is WILD, to let that stand and to choose to just not acknowledge it is such a failure of the church. I'm ex-religious myself and that sounds like a call for help that went completely unanswered. I think if I had done something like that in my church people would have come and tried to comfort me and address the doubts, so mind boggling that they chose to handle it by ignoring you. Well at least it seems to have made your path going forward more clear.
I would love to hear about Jacksons missinery work in Sweden as a secular atheist swede. He does look swedish, and I wonder if that is one of the reasons he was chosen to go there.
Did he ever get anyone to convert?
Also, I don't remember if you said in your missionery video if you ever did convert or baptise anyone, Alyssa?
Very interesting video. Keep up the good work 😊
I think she mentioned she helped getting 25 people in the church, but its hard, because you dont visit them often afterwards, you just try to get them baptized and then find new people to convince
Yes !!! I am French, so also very secular and Mormon are nearly unheard of here. We have way more Jehovah's witness
@@irina-ty1336here in norway almost everybody do not like JW
@@lindalund9621 Oh, we don't like them either, but we have more of them around than Mormons
I think its very admirable how neither one interrupts the other yet they both have valuable things to share
I absolutely LOVE the fact that you got to know each other over "the Satan game." My hubby and I are avid D&D fanatics and it has made our relationship stronger and sharing our passion brings us so much joy. Do you still play?
I've been bingeing your videos since I found them. Exmo here... I appreciate that you are sharing your stories and insights - it's helping me understand some of my experiences.
You’ve come full circle and still retain you values hoorah
A moment with my bishop was also pivotal in me leaving the church. I was living in Salt Lake City at the time, I had just come back from my mission (which actually already broke my testimony) and I got a job. I was trying to hold on to something to save my testimony but then I was required to work one Sunday per month by my job. So I was really conflicted about it and spoke to my bishop.
He basically said, well you need a job so you gotta do what you gotta do. I was appalled that he was so nonchalant about the commandments and I was so upset that I decided to follow his advice and instead of being targeted by Satan I actually felt relaxed that Sunday and that was the start of me leaving the church within 6 months of that moment. I just kept going less and less to church and eventually never came back.
Let’s talk about sex! I’m forty five years married. After I left the church (not Mormon) I really knew nothing about sex. I was married in 1978. It seemed like everyone was having a hoot in the seventies but I was clueless. My husband and I bought the book The Joy Of Sex! Seems like such an innocent book now but we hid it in our bedroom. That book was the greatest! Not trying to embarrass anyone but the church never talks about a healthy sex life with your own husband or wife.
Loved every second of this! Thanks for joining in Jackson!
ALYSSA you are just so badass!!! You make learning so easy-- you might have your doubts on being called to be a TEACHER, maybe, but you're a born educator. Have you ever considered doing a TED Talk? ❤
Exactly!! She’s still teaching even if it’s not in a “traditional” way.
We need more vids with Jackson!! you guys are the cutest😭 maybe one on how leaving the church affected you guys’ family relationships? (if it’s not too personal)
its lovely seeing such a normal happy couple on youtube, so happy for you guys!
This was such an intriguing video to listen to. Thank you so much for your story!
I'm a born again protestant Christian believer. I grew up going to church, but didn't decide to put my faith in Jesus as my Savior and Lord until I was 17. Throughout the years I've had times of struggle and doubt, but my questions have always been welcomed. It physically pained me to hear that when you (Alyssa) voiced your doubts during testimony time in Relief Society, that you were shoved aside, shunned, dismissed, and looked at with shock and disgust. I know how isolating that feels (I went to Liberty University, and the culture of BYU sounds so similar to the culture at Liberty), and it makes complete sense why you didn't want any more part of it. I left Liberty after similar doubts and questions.
I think a core difference is how in your experience, everything Mormon is all tied together and linked. While I had difficulties with the rules and culture of Liberty, my faith in Jesus is not tied to where my money goes or where I went to school.
It seems so scary to leave behind an entire community and culture, especially one you grew up in and truly believed in!
I remember after a traumatic event while I was a student at a Bible School in Wisconsin, the whole class was having a prayer meeting. I voiced how I was struggling to believe if God could be good or if He could be in control because He let something so terrible happen to the city where I lived. I voiced other times in my life where I felt like God had failed or been absent. People responded with compassion and empathy. People patiently walked with me through my doubts and sorrows and showed me grace upon grace. Their steadfast love and reflection of the character of Jesus gave me the slivers of assurance I needed to keep moving forward. There were many times in the Bible when it seemed like God had failed or was absent, but He was doing things in His time as shown through the rest of the story unfolding.
Your reply to Alyssa is so kind and thoughtful! I felt sad when she said something like, "At that point I could have tolerated Jesus stuff but not Jiseph Smith stuf . . ." I often wonder if she feel she feels to reject Joseph Smith, she has to reject all belief in anything spiritual. I hope Alyssa and her husband are still on their spiritual journey.
I am a believer in the Father. Son, and Holy Spirit but I feel alienated from churches in general. I hope to find a compatible faith community at some point. I am happy that you left the toxic religious environment (Liberty) with your faith in God intact, and found a faith community that supports you.
So beautiful to hear a couple so aligned after such a trying journey. I've been wanting to hear his side of your story as a couple. Thank you for giving us this lovely glimpse into your partnership!
Watching you two discuss your exit from the church is really reflective for me on the two years my wife and I spent working hard to heal our own traumas and recover and go through that massive time of change in our lives. We never considered divorce. We did separate but we did so knowing we were almost certainly coming back together after and we did. We spent almost 3 months apart figuring ourselves out, healing, growing, and have been back together for over a year now.
Whether leaving a high demand religion on gpong through what we did can really shake a relationship. Thankfully, like you two were in a similar place, on a similar path, we were too and we came out happier and stronger than ever!
This is the first time I'm seeing Jackson. The energy between the two of you seems palpable. So happy for you both.
the way y'all look at each other and the mutual respect for each other is inspiring ❤️
Real relationship goals there, being able to go through all of that discerning about truth, and never once either of you considering leaving. Also laughed way too hard at "Winner of the Alyssa Games still on top!" and "oh my family is going to do baptisms for me after I die anyhow."
Hey, man!!! I love the beard and shaved skull. The two of you look so beautiful and happy. You are both very VERY important to me as I gather information to leave this church. 😊❤
Love love love you two. Really a fun conversation. Great content and I SO appreciate being a part of this tribe.
I knew at 7 -8 years old while giving a talk in sunday school that there had to be more than this, with the church. I was going through temple prep classes with my ex and realized I didn't want to be married to him in this life, let alone time and eternity. I divorced him instead. Never regretting it. I finally had my membership cancelled in 2004. Again never regretting it.
I don’t know how your videos got in my recommended feed, but I am so glad that they did. You two seem to be an awesome couple. I wish you both the happiest of lives.
You seem to be a well connected couple. Thanks for introducing us to Jackson, his humility and humor is evident and he seems wise beyond his years.
I loved seeing your husband on the channel! It was great to see you having a conversation, felt enriching. Bring him back :)
This was such a beautiful conversation. I have no connection to mormonism at all, and I'm not even sure why youtube recommended this video, but I think you really set an example for open, respectful and loving communication. Thank you for sharing your story!
y'all are so cute and chill omg. this experience of deconstructing so much of your beliefs with someone really does bring you together. it's honestly how i formed my most meaningful relationships in college.
Thank you for putting this up. I was one of the people who wanted to know about how you agreed to leave together, and it's great that Jackson agreed to jump on tell his side, too. I love the pizza party story. It's just so sweet and very college. And I just love seeing you together. Your marriage seems strong precisely because you do challenge each others thoughts. Good relationships should push you to consider the world around you.
There is something so cathartic about your coffee story. I was never in a religious group so intensely, but hearing you find your freedom just gives me the same feeling.
As someone who's never interacted with the Mormon Church before (I was raised Catholic - I'm now secular) the Mormon use of the word "Testimony" is really interesting to me, mainly because that's not what it means xD
"Testimony" means "evidence or proof", which is fascinating because the way you describe it, Mormons use it to refer to a declaration of faith, so they're basically saying "This is true because I believe it to be true, and my belief that it is true is evidence of its truthfulness."
...Which is a complete paradox. It seems like the Mormon Church chose that word in a conscious attempt to dilute the meaning of the word "evidence" and skew the congregation's understanding of what it means to prove something.
Thank you for this. The joy you share is contagious. In fact "the love you take is equal too the love you make..."
Jackson has such an interesting and nuanced outlook on not only religion, but also life, relationships, etc. Loved listening to both of your experiences!
I was laughing out loud at your first meeting story (from Alyssa’s perspective!). Loved watching your dynamic and learning more about your story together. ❤
As a non Mormon I found this conversation both refreshing and uplifting..religion trauma is so tough and now I want to read Alyssa’s book because your story telling is incredible…thank you for sharing.
Thank you both for being so open and frank. I'm so pleased that your marriage is going from strength to strength.
You are such a delightful couple, it's really beautiful.
Thank you for sharing the deep conflict, awkwardness, the question of guilt, fear, and a whole lot of what ifs as a bonded team and married couple experiencing a sense of risk of loss. You seemed to have gained balance in morals and values between yourselves without imposing on others. That is a tough thing to do and you pulled it off well in the video 🎉
31:40 - This is an important conversation that a lot of people still don't get.
I live in Texas, so there's still a lot taboo around teaching anything but abstinence, but all the data shows how ineffective that ends up being. One of the places I lived (Lubbock) had one of the highest rates of pregnancy & STI's, and they taught abstinence-only.
Jackson was 100% right. People will figure out how to do the deed all on their own, so simply not telling them about it doesn't mean they won't do it. And educating people on how to prevent pregnancy & STI's does not mean kids will suddenly start going out & getting crazy either.
Instead, they'll be better educated & less likely to make poor choices. A problem many countries have right now isn't that too many educated people are having tons of children, it's that the most educated in society are choosing to avoid having children all together.
So perhaps these hyper conservative, ultra religious groups should realize their preferred method is not working.
Besides Lubbock being a college town I can’t imagine only abstinence taught. Not that I was taught much better when girls were supposed to know that boys had a point where everything gets out of hand! Fortunately, previous classes in health in earlier grades helped know how pregnancies happen! It was still icky, because that’s what the churches led girls to believe too!
I worry about cities where they must revert to back alleles, yes I lived in Texas before roe v wade! Anyone who was sick or dizzy was assumed to be pregnant, at times! My roommate had a shower head come off and hit her in the head and they still wanted to do a pregnancy test-- not sure that’s at all how you get pregnant, but maybe……😂
@redhatbear1135 Yeah, it's a college town, but it's grown so much (at least 300k people now including the suburbs + students). In Lubbock, they probably would think you can get pregnant from a shower head bumping your head 😅
What's crazy is just how much more conservative it's getting. Right before I moved, this super religious group was lobbying for Lubbock to become the first large city in Texas to outright ban abortion. I'm not certain, but I think it passed.
It might sound weird, but I've always been pro life, but I felt it was wrong for me to impose my religious beliefs on those. And seeing how sex education was abstinence only - in a city where the college has an STI named after it ("Raider Rash"), I began to understand how backwards & ineffective these laws & teachings are.
Just read an article last year where Lubbock had the 7th highest STD rate in the state, syphilis cases increased by 500%.... They NEED to do better in teaching these kids.
@@corey2232 I remember classes on syphilis and gonorrhea symptoms, but you are right t wasn’t in Texas! I did work in a YMCA group that worked in the projects in Texas. One of the stories was of a guy who tried to tell a father to have his daughter checked and the father refused! More than one guy if I recall correctly. That was Austin.
I had a suite mate who had a car stop and basically flash her. She was a best shocked. She grew up in San Antonio, and I wanted to know if they didn’t have newspapers there!
The way i gasped when you got to your testimony! Oh my gosh the honesty and bravery that took, i wish i was that brave you are amazing!!
You two are the sweetest couple ever, absolutely loved this video! I'm hoping we will see more of Jackson on the channel in the future, the two of you have great chemistry, and it's so, so wholesome to see!
I'm not religious, nor have I ever been religious, but I have always been curious about religion and mythology and stuff like that, so your channel was an absolute gem to find, Alyssa! Thank you for all the great content you are providing for us here on YT, keep up the great work you're doing teaching us all about Mormonism from your insider perspective. Not only do I learn a lot from you, but you have such a calming and soothing personality that is just perfect for these kinds of videos. I found your channel only a few weeks ago, already a huge fan of yours!
Jackson is so cool! A natural born philosopher. It’s incredibly impressive to have such amazing perception and ability to articulate it when you’re embedded in such a stringent and oppressive environment. I’m glad you guys found each other ❤
When he wanted to do the book pitch aww my heart melted ❤
Yesss, so wonderful to see his pride in his wife and her achievements.🥰
This is such a beautiful love story of two people growing together and finding new facets of themselves together! Thank you so much for sharing because its really amazing
I left the church 8 years ago and am just now comfortable talking about it. I relate with everything you're saying. I'm going to binge watch every episide now. Thank you for being brave!
So glad you escaped in good health!
Me tooo! Whew so glad we don't have to wear garments anymore!
I am so inspired by how you two support and push each other to become better and chase your dreams. Congrats!
So happy for you all! It is so sweet to be able to try so many new things together for the first time! I would love to have experienced that with my husband! You all are a beautiful couple! ❤
you both give off such warm vibes ☀️
Just something: Countries who teaches absence only, have more teen pregnancy than countries with proper sex education.
*abstinence :)
There also has been storys on how some mormon couples did not get pregnant because they did not have sex. Or in the wrong hole … it is easy to laugh but it us because they do not learn anything
Jackson had a glow up too! You two are wonderful! May you be blessed with many years together.
your husband seems so sweet! I love the way you look at each other. You have been through a trauma together and have strengthened your bond along the way. I love that you were able to help open one another's eyes and did it together. Relationship goals!!