I’m still watching your video, and am at 5:39 talking about film separation. I own a small film transfer and restoration studio. I personally use Film splicing cement when I see this separation, along with a very small heat to fuse it together. Works great!
Really interesting video! I'm going to be getting into filming 8mm and Super 8 and I wanted to learn how to clean and scan my films so I landed on this video. Really cool. Thanks
The process is interesting. Always remember to use N-95 construction masks to prevent breathing the flaky powder. And not all films require to be prepared using WD-40. The curling iron will do two things. 1.) Soften the film back to flat. and 2.) Exacerbate the vinegar syndrome. Heat is an enemy of films that have VS. Question, after using the WD-40, does the film still emit a vinegar smell? Also how were you able to scan the entire frame whereas I see the additional picture area, above and below the frame lines?
Just found your channel. I just bought a Eyesen 8/Super 8 Movie Digitizer. I have a box full of film my Dad took from about 1967 to 1981 I want to convert. I hope I can learn from your channel. I loaded the first reel, but it's not feeding correctly. I gonna check the alignment tomorrow and try again.
When I repair brittle/curled film reels, i take my MAIER-HANCOCK 8-16 MM PROFESSIONAL HOT SPLICER and place it in between my film reminders and use the heat which is specific at designed for splicing and fusing film cement to straighten it out. Sometimes I need a hair iron, but I do also use the device to fuse Film separation with Film cement. Hope this makes sense!
Thanks so much! I have a large collection of 1920's 16mm and 40's to 60's 8 and Super 8 films I found in storage units, etc.. None are as bad as the one you show here but they're in need of serious cleaning. Question, what software to you recommend for stabilizing the film?
The only stabilizing software I have used is the Mercalli plugin that came with Video Studio Pro. I know it is very popular but do keep in mind that it and I believe all stabilization software needs to zoom in to do the stabilization. When you zoom two things happen you loose some resolution and it crops out some of the picture. Just letting you know it is not all positive. I am not saying don't use it, just letting you know there is a the trade off. When it comes to cleaning the films I suggest if you have a Wolverine like device for your 8mm films test copy a few films first to see if they even need cleaning. When it comes to vertical lines showing up on the film cleaning them can sometimes make the lines even more visible especially on dark scenes. I always advise not cleaning films unless they need it. You can do more damage to the film when cleaning them than it improves the films if they do not need cleaning. Alcohol does a good job and is a good cleaner if it does not have too much water in it. I believe FilmGuard does a little better job than Alcohol but is much more expensive. For most films you can hardly tell the difference between the two. I plan on sometime this year doing a series of videos on cleaning films. It is a complicated subject so will take more than one video to do it justice. I am leaving you a link of a video of using a flat iron, it is the same video that was linked to while the moon was setting so you probably have already seen it. I thought if you haven't seen it. With all the films you have from the storage units it would be worth your time watching, it is less than ten minutes long. Here is the link th-cam.com/video/oWXdm8iltG0/w-d-xo.html I did leave some affiliate links to FIlmGuard and Alcohol below both videos for the viewers convenience. Hope you enjoy copying your films. I always like the surprise that can happen when watching old films just seeing how much some places on the earth have changed through time is amazing to me. It is the closest thing to a time machine we have. Hope this reply is helpful. Ron of super8tovideo
Great video!! Could you please tell me where you can get your film rewinder/splicer? My dad is working on old home movies and this looks like it would be great for him.
I bought it used, like most Super 8 stuff these days. I would search ebay. There are many types of rewinders. I have never seen that exact one since I bought it. I can tell it was sold to a school district. I do not think there are any new ones made today. Good luck I hope that helps. Happy new year.
Wow, this is really bad. How is it possible nobody has said anything in the past year. I go on wayyy too long but there's so much and I couldn't even get through all of it. Run! Don't walk. Go watch a cat video, anything! This is an example of what not to do, from beginning to the end, how not to handle and clean film that's in the latter stages (or any stage!) of Vinegar Syndrome. The techniques are bad for the film, bad for the projector, and bad for his health. The end product may be improved short term but longer term and health-wise? There's just plain better ways to do this. First, that white powder is a chemical residue (TPP or Triphenyl phosphate) that's initially added to film (and many, many more products) as a plasticizer (for flexibility) and a fire retardant (it's main use). During VS a lot of chemical processes are going on and weak acids are formed which can leach out (for lack of a better term) the TPP from the film making it brittle and curly and causing separation. Though not a powdered acid, it still may help to picture car battery posts when they haven't been cleaned for a long time and the white powdery buildup that you see. It doesn't happen all the time, in fact he said it was the first time he'd seen it but that should have signaled stop! Do some research before trying whatever comes to mind. Using alcohol in the beginning was not thought out at all. It's fast drying all that was accomplished was to help make it more brittle and separate the film more, etc. And he did it twice! And he's doing all this without any cotton gloves from the very beginning which is nuts, just for the sake of the film (you don't want your oils added to the mix on film no matter what condition it's in) if not for your hands. Do you really think that the chemical processes that can turn film from its regular state to that curly brittle mess can't potentially do something to your skin and hands? The flat iron!!!! Why not use a steam iron?!!! The damaged and dried out emulsion will love it! Think about the material you're working with. Does film emulsion and its backing thrive on heat?!!! I don't think so. What happens to hair, which is a lot tougher than the emulsion, after using flat or curling irons? Running that powdery film through his equipment! And I'll bet canned air was used to clean it out and breathe it in. There's just tooo much BAD here. WD-40?!!! Noooo. I remember others using it way back as a shortcut but, again, fine in the very short term and if you're going to toss the film after digitizing, that's up to you but do really think those petroleum distillates are going to treat film well? Why do you think the splicing glue didn't work and I sure wouldn't trust any taped splice that was made for very long. Unreal. Okay, I've not used Filmguard so I can't say how it really is but if you're going to spend that kind of money, take a look at a non-Amazon product (I love/hate them, I order monthly, at least). The convenience is sooo tempting, I know. I'm a geezer. I only started messing around with 8mm & 16mm about 20 years ago, buying and selling on ebay for 6-7 years as a part of what I was doing at the time. I didn't know squat about film and projectors, I only knew film cameras, but you don't run into VS on that end, mainly fading etc except for glorious Kodachrome. But I read and talked , etc. And one product kept coming up in chats, etc, etc by people who really, really knew film. It's made by a guy named Urbanski and it's called FilmRenew. It runs about the same price but you can also bundle it with gloves and good cloths (really impt so you don't scratch the emulsion). I started working on family and relatives' film projects a short while back and needed to find all the stuff I used to use and I was amazed to see his website was still up but even better, he's on ebay now too which is convenient enough for me. Google his stuff and make up your own mind but remember, once emulsion is damaged there's no fixing it, at least until post but think about what will increase your time fixing and what will minimize it. Part depends too what you have planned for the film afterward (if you're going to store it think about Molecular Sieves from Kodak, Google it) . If you're going to toss it, think twice and think again. Think about the fact that we don't have a clue what tech or whatever is coming down the road after us and maybe they'd like a chance to enjoy an original film. Let another generation work their tech magic on it. But it sure won't get there with the advice given her. Ha, this will never be read in full but I couldn't stop. There's just soo many ways here to mess up your film in my very personal opinion.
@@digitalshoebox5026 Sadly, not a gag. IMHO it's mainly focused on promoting his collection of Amazon links and uninformed fixes. They're unsafe and damaging to film, equipment, people and pets. It needs more negative reviews and should be removed.
I told people what I tried and what worked for me. Alcohol did not work for me, and now other people know not to try it. You would be correct if the film is some treasured film. For instance, if someone had a film from the 1930s of a zoo in Australia that had the Tasmanian Wolf on it, no, I would not suggest WD-40. At that point, I would go to Hollywood and ask where they take their films to be restored. This channel is dedicated to the average person who just wants to convert their home movies to be watched. If you will notice, I use simple software like VideoStudio Pro or Adobe Premiere Elements. If you ever go to swap meets and estate sales, ask the people what happens to the films when they do not sell. Many times they get thrown away. I did this video because most people, I believe, if they saw a film in this condition, would just throw the films away. I gave them a cheap, simple answer to how they can fix and copy the film. You may think they would go through the expense of restoring them the "Correct Way." There is no way to know for sure, but I think most people would not go through the expense. Believe it or not, I almost left an eBay link for a cheaper alternative to Filmguard. Then I found out the inventor of Filmguard and a guy on eBay were having a feud between the two. I read their back-and-forth replies and sided with the inventor of Filmguard. The guy on eBay was buying Filmguard and then repackaging it in smaller bottles and selling it on eBay. The inventor asked him to stop, but he would not. I could not find this exact link where I read this back-and-forth exchange. But so you will not think it was my imagination, I am leaving a link to a forum where they are discussing this issue. Here is the link to the forum: www.reelmagicfilmforum.com/t292022f2-Filmguard-a-review-1.html#msg25844. You will have to copy and paste the link; it is not a hotlink, and you need to start reading about halfway down. I liked your comments, because the truth is most of your criticism has some very valid points. Especially for people who love film and treat it like many people do a classic car, meaning they pamper it. Other people just want a car to drive them to where they want to go. When it comes to health issues, you may be correct. I was a house painter for many years and am not that afraid of most chemicals like many people are. Other people may find those chemicals too dangerous to put on their hands and what they breathe in. I am more worried about what I put in my mouth. Each person has to make up their own mind about what to be afraid of. I would never touch diet coke because it turns to wood alcohol in the blood. I never drink alcohol, period. Remember how many brain cells it kills with each drink. At least that is what I was told in school. Look at how many people lined up to take the Covid shot, and other people like me would never touch the thing. Nor would my mother, and she is 92 years old, never got sick with it and is doing just fine. I am glad you left your input because many people, I assure you, feel as you do and found your input helpful. As for the other reply that suggests I do it for the Amazon links, etc. No, I do it because I loved seeing my own home movies and wanted to pass the information on to other people who want to see their home movies again. I also do it for the experience of putting out videos. I plan on making money online with videos but not on this channel. This is a hobby for me. If you will notice, I do not give long intros to promote the channel. I do not beg for please subscribe and hit the thumbs up on most of my videos. The moonset at the end is definitely a no-no by TH-cam standards. Most people click away because they know the moon setting is the end. The TH-cam algorithm sees this as a percentage of the video not watched. If I were in it just to promote links, I would not break the rules I just mentioned. If you will notice, I disappear for months at a time from this channel because it is a hobby for me, and TH-cam's algorithm hates that as well. As of today, this has been one of my most popular videos; it has 2,887 views and 90 likes. Take care this is Ron from super8tovideo signing off.
I’m still watching your video, and am at 5:39 talking about film separation. I own a small film transfer and restoration studio. I personally use Film splicing cement when I see this separation, along with a very small heat to fuse it together. Works great!
I am happy to here this because any comment may be read by other people and help them as well. Good luck with you restoration business.
Really interesting video! I'm going to be getting into filming 8mm and Super 8 and I wanted to learn how to clean and scan my films so I landed on this video. Really cool. Thanks
Wow! Great job!
The process is interesting. Always remember to use N-95 construction masks to prevent breathing the flaky powder. And not all films require to be prepared using WD-40. The curling iron will do two things. 1.) Soften the film back to flat. and 2.) Exacerbate the vinegar syndrome. Heat is an enemy of films that have VS. Question, after using the WD-40, does the film still emit a vinegar smell? Also how were you able to scan the entire frame whereas I see the additional picture area, above and below the frame lines?
Just found your channel. I just bought a Eyesen 8/Super 8 Movie Digitizer. I have a box full of film my Dad took from about 1967 to 1981 I want to convert.
I hope I can learn from your channel. I loaded the first reel, but it's not feeding correctly. I gonna check the alignment tomorrow and try again.
Did you get it working do not know that scanner how has it worked for you?
Wow! Excellent video.
When I repair brittle/curled film reels, i take my MAIER-HANCOCK 8-16 MM PROFESSIONAL HOT SPLICER and place it in between my film reminders and use the heat which is specific at designed for splicing and fusing film cement to straighten it out. Sometimes I need a hair iron, but I do also use the device to fuse Film separation with Film cement. Hope this makes sense!
Yes it does and any feedback people give I always welcome because then other people may save there film as well. Thank you.
What programs are you using to edit the films with ? Thanks
Thank you so much for the advice. I bought an old 8mm family film that was so brittle it would jam in the projector. Hopefully WD40 will do the trick.
Did you mean the projector or a scanner similar to the Wolverine machine. Let us know if it worked for you. Thanks Ron
Thanks so much! I have a large collection of 1920's 16mm and 40's to 60's 8 and Super 8 films I found in storage units, etc.. None are as bad as the one you show here but they're in need of serious cleaning. Question, what software to you recommend for stabilizing the film?
The only stabilizing software I have used is the Mercalli plugin that came with Video Studio Pro. I know it is very popular but do keep in mind that it and I believe all stabilization software needs to zoom in to do the stabilization. When you zoom two things happen you loose some resolution and it crops out some of the picture. Just letting you know it is not all positive. I am not saying don't use it, just letting you know there is a the trade off. When it comes to cleaning the films I suggest if you have a Wolverine like device for your 8mm films test copy a few films first to see if they even need cleaning. When it comes to vertical lines showing up on the film cleaning them can sometimes make the lines even more visible especially on dark scenes. I always advise not cleaning films unless they need it. You can do more damage to the film when cleaning them than it improves the films if they do not need cleaning. Alcohol does a good job and is a good cleaner if it does not have too much water in it. I believe FilmGuard does a little better job than Alcohol but is much more expensive. For most films you can hardly tell the difference between the two. I plan on sometime this year doing a series of videos on cleaning films. It is a complicated subject so will take more than one video to do it justice. I am leaving you a link of a video of using a flat iron, it is the same video that was linked to while the moon was setting so you probably have already seen it. I thought if you haven't seen it. With all the films you have from the storage units it would be worth your time watching, it is less than ten minutes long. Here is the link th-cam.com/video/oWXdm8iltG0/w-d-xo.html I did leave some affiliate links to FIlmGuard and Alcohol below both videos for the viewers convenience. Hope you enjoy copying your films. I always like the surprise that can happen when watching old films just seeing how much some places on the earth have changed through time is amazing to me. It is the closest thing to a time machine we have. Hope this reply is helpful. Ron of super8tovideo
Great video!! Could you please tell me where you can get your film rewinder/splicer? My dad is working on old home movies and this looks like it would be great for him.
I bought it used, like most Super 8 stuff these days. I would search ebay. There are many types of rewinders. I have never seen that exact one since I bought it. I can tell it was sold to a school district. I do not think there are any new ones made today. Good luck I hope that helps. Happy new year.
You did very well. 😊
Great work!
Thank you for the encouragement.
Wow, this is really bad. How is it possible nobody has said anything in the past year. I go on wayyy too long but there's so much and I couldn't even get through all of it. Run! Don't walk. Go watch a cat video, anything! This is an example of what not to do, from beginning to the end, how not to handle and clean film that's in the latter stages (or any stage!) of Vinegar Syndrome. The techniques are bad for the film, bad for the projector, and bad for his health. The end product may be improved short term but longer term and health-wise? There's just plain better ways to do this. First, that white powder is a chemical residue (TPP or Triphenyl phosphate) that's initially added to film (and many, many more products) as a plasticizer (for flexibility) and a fire retardant (it's main use). During VS a lot of chemical processes are going on and weak acids are formed which can leach out (for lack of a better term) the TPP from the film making it brittle and curly and causing separation. Though not a powdered acid, it still may help to picture car battery posts when they haven't been cleaned for a long time and the white powdery buildup that you see. It doesn't happen all the time, in fact he said it was the first time he'd seen it but that should have signaled stop! Do some research before trying whatever comes to mind. Using alcohol in the beginning was not thought out at all. It's fast drying all that was accomplished was to help make it more brittle and separate the film more, etc. And he did it twice! And he's doing all this without any cotton gloves from the very beginning which is nuts, just for the sake of the film (you don't want your oils added to the mix on film no matter what condition it's in) if not for your hands. Do you really think that the chemical processes that can turn film from its regular state to that curly brittle mess can't potentially do something to your skin and hands? The flat iron!!!! Why not use a steam iron?!!! The damaged and dried out emulsion will love it! Think about the material you're working with. Does film emulsion and its backing thrive on heat?!!! I don't think so. What happens to hair, which is a lot tougher than the emulsion, after using flat or curling irons? Running that powdery film through his equipment! And I'll bet canned air was used to clean it out and breathe it in. There's just tooo much BAD here. WD-40?!!! Noooo. I remember others using it way back as a shortcut but, again, fine in the very short term and if you're going to toss the film after digitizing, that's up to you but do really think those petroleum distillates are going to treat film well? Why do you think the splicing glue didn't work and I sure wouldn't trust any taped splice that was made for very long. Unreal. Okay, I've not used Filmguard so I can't say how it really is but if you're going to spend that kind of money, take a look at a non-Amazon product (I love/hate them, I order monthly, at least). The convenience is sooo tempting, I know. I'm a geezer. I only started messing around with 8mm & 16mm about 20 years ago, buying and selling on ebay for 6-7 years as a part of what I was doing at the time. I didn't know squat about film and projectors, I only knew film cameras, but you don't run into VS on that end, mainly fading etc except for glorious Kodachrome. But I read and talked , etc. And one product kept coming up in chats, etc, etc by people who really, really knew film. It's made by a guy named Urbanski and it's called FilmRenew. It runs about the same price but you can also bundle it with gloves and good cloths (really impt so you don't scratch the emulsion). I started working on family and relatives' film projects a short while back and needed to find all the stuff I used to use and I was amazed to see his website was still up but even better, he's on ebay now too which is convenient enough for me. Google his stuff and make up your own mind but remember, once emulsion is damaged there's no fixing it, at least until post but think about what will increase your time fixing and what will minimize it. Part depends too what you have planned for the film afterward (if you're going to store it think about Molecular Sieves from Kodak, Google it) . If you're going to toss it, think twice and think again. Think about the fact that we don't have a clue what tech or whatever is coming down the road after us and maybe they'd like a chance to enjoy an original film. Let another generation work their tech magic on it. But it sure won't get there with the advice given her. Ha, this will never be read in full but I couldn't stop. There's just soo many ways here to mess up your film in my very personal opinion.
Thank you for your input. At first I thought that this clip was a gag to show what not to do, but now, not so sure.
@@digitalshoebox5026 Sadly, not a gag. IMHO it's mainly focused on promoting his collection of Amazon links and uninformed fixes. They're unsafe and damaging to film, equipment, people and pets. It needs more negative reviews and should be removed.
I told people what I tried and what worked for me. Alcohol did not work for me, and now other people know not to try it. You would be correct if the film is some treasured film. For instance, if someone had a film from the 1930s of a zoo in Australia that had the Tasmanian Wolf on it, no, I would not suggest WD-40. At that point, I would go to Hollywood and ask where they take their films to be restored. This channel is dedicated to the average person who just wants to convert their home movies to be watched. If you will notice, I use simple software like VideoStudio Pro or Adobe Premiere Elements. If you ever go to swap meets and estate sales, ask the people what happens to the films when they do not sell. Many times they get thrown away. I did this video because most people, I believe, if they saw a film in this condition, would just throw the films away. I gave them a cheap, simple answer to how they can fix and copy the film. You may think they would go through the expense of restoring them the "Correct Way." There is no way to know for sure, but I think most people would not go through the expense.
Believe it or not, I almost left an eBay link for a cheaper alternative to Filmguard. Then I found out the inventor of Filmguard and a guy on eBay were having a feud between the two. I read their back-and-forth replies and sided with the inventor of Filmguard. The guy on eBay was buying Filmguard and then repackaging it in smaller bottles and selling it on eBay. The inventor asked him to stop, but he would not. I could not find this exact link where I read this back-and-forth exchange. But so you will not think it was my imagination, I am leaving a link to a forum where they are discussing this issue. Here is the link to the forum: www.reelmagicfilmforum.com/t292022f2-Filmguard-a-review-1.html#msg25844. You will have to copy and paste the link; it is not a hotlink, and you need to start reading about halfway down.
I liked your comments, because the truth is most of your criticism has some very valid points. Especially for people who love film and treat it like many people do a classic car, meaning they pamper it. Other people just want a car to drive them to where they want to go. When it comes to health issues, you may be correct. I was a house painter for many years and am not that afraid of most chemicals like many people are. Other people may find those chemicals too dangerous to put on their hands and what they breathe in. I am more worried about what I put in my mouth. Each person has to make up their own mind about what to be afraid of. I would never touch diet coke because it turns to wood alcohol in the blood. I never drink alcohol, period. Remember how many brain cells it kills with each drink. At least that is what I was told in school. Look at how many people lined up to take the Covid shot, and other people like me would never touch the thing. Nor would my mother, and she is 92 years old, never got sick with it and is doing just fine. I am glad you left your input because many people, I assure you, feel as you do and found your input helpful.
As for the other reply that suggests I do it for the Amazon links, etc. No, I do it because I loved seeing my own home movies and wanted to pass the information on to other people who want to see their home movies again. I also do it for the experience of putting out videos. I plan on making money online with videos but not on this channel. This is a hobby for me. If you will notice, I do not give long intros to promote the channel. I do not beg for please subscribe and hit the thumbs up on most of my videos. The moonset at the end is definitely a no-no by TH-cam standards. Most people click away because they know the moon setting is the end. The TH-cam algorithm sees this as a percentage of the video not watched. If I were in it just to promote links, I would not break the rules I just mentioned. If you will notice, I disappear for months at a time from this channel because it is a hobby for me, and TH-cam's algorithm hates that as well. As of today, this has been one of my most popular videos; it has 2,887 views and 90 likes. Take care this is Ron from super8tovideo signing off.