Project Pathfinder was started after Starfleet found out that Voyager was in the Delta Quadrant when the Doctor had been sent to the USS Prometheus. Starfleet didn't even know Voyager was still in existence before the Prometheus event.
I think that a temporal causal loop story involving Section 31 and the Romulans would have made a good conspiracy story about Voyager and how it ended up on that mission. Remember the episode, "Eye of the Needle" where they find that micro wormhole and a Romulan scientist on the other end, followed by what Mr Barclay said in another episode involving the pathfinder project? "The Romulans have been curious about Voyager for years!" This was probably because the time space wormhole or, "Harry Kim Wormhole" as Mr Paris named it had a temporal displacement of 20 years IIRC, something they only discovered after transporting Romulan scientist Telek R'Mor on to Voyager through it. After discovering this they sent him back with letters from the crew which he said he would give to Starfleet 20 years later, however Tuvok discovered that he died 4 years before Voyager launched which meant he could not have sent the messages on. Torres then speculated that he may have left a will asking someone else to transmit the messages or given the computer chip from Voyager to the Romulan government. Based on what reg Barclay said, "The Romulans have been curious about Voyager for years" it would seem that they did get the letters they left with Telek R'Mor and were aware of what happened to the ship perhaps long before the events in Caretaker. It would make sense from their perspective to let this happen, they've wanted to explore the Delta quadrant for a long time but why risk one of their own ships when they knew two of ours made it? Val Jean and Voyager. It's possible Section 31 also knew about what happened beforehand given their clandestine connections with the Romulan empire, hence the nonsensical mission being launched in the first place. Temporal causal loop complete.
Pathfinder was looking for Voyager in the delta quadrant because the doctor told Starfleet where it was. He was sent to the alpha quadrant and fought Romulans with Andy Dick. Additionally, if it was the intention of purposely sending Voyager to the delta quadrant you would want a young crew like Harry Kim. After decades of returning, young crew will replace the older crew. You would want a somewhat trustworthy (to do what's in their best interest) person like Tom Paris is a completely alien situation to do the things the Starfleet personnel would find repulsive. Still though, if they wanted to get a ship there I have no doubt there would be more than enough ideologues in Starfleet to easily put together an all volunteer perfectly trained and manned crew. It would be the ultimate exploration. More than enough would go even if they knew they would never live to see earth again. Sorry, I disagree with everything you said 😆, but I do love the channel.
Did Lore Reloaded forget the other Federation ship which was taken by the Caretaker? It was half the size of Voyageur and it's crew didn't fare well... so they violate every Starfleet law in order to have a very slim hope of making it back to the Federation. I think by the time Voyageur encountered them, there was maybe 20 crew remaining... is this correct? That's the fate Voyageur should have had instead of the script writers magically repairing Voyageur, and somehow unkilling all the extra crew members, between story arcs... If the Federation _was_ going to explore the Delta Quadrant they wouldn't have chosen a small ship like Voyageur, they would have chosen a larger ship which _could_ allow the people on board to bring along their family... so that their moral would be high as such a mission _would_ be a decade long mission... so children getting older, becoming junior officers... some of _them_ having children by the time the ship returns. Of course, ideally, they would want an entire fleet of ships for such decade+ long mission. Several scout ships, like the Intrepid-class, to actually do the scouting and away missions, lead from a ship, like a Galaxy-class, outfitted as a mobile command post with 3 or 4 times the crew on board (to switch crews around of the other ships so all crews have a few months of R&R in a "safe" location while making sure the ships they were assigned to can still carry on with new orders), several smaller ships to act as protectors, like the Defiant-class, all supported by a fleet train which consists of a mining ships, a construction ship, at least 2 repair ships, and several other supply ships. All in all, a fleet of at least a dozen of ships, probably closer to 2 dozen ships, just to make sure the mission would be a success.
@@aralornwolf3140 The thing is, there were plenty of situations, where the presence of a fleet of Federation ships would have lead to destruction. Instead of a fleet of ships, I would have sent either a science star cruiser, or, if the Vesta was active, one of those ships, since it is a multi mission ship, and twice Voyager's size.
@@shauntempley9757 , Voyageur was captured and destroyed so many times in its seven TV seasons, that a single ship wouldn't have made it. As soon as _one_ aggressive species decided to take on that lone ship, it's gone. With a small fleet, with trained diplomats, they would be able to _avoid_ most of the altercations... maybe a little bit of trade (of information) for freedom of passage... perhaps a little bit of technology, or showing the species new mining/construction techniques would be enough. By having multiple ships, when there _is_ an altercation, there is a higher likelihood of those ships surviving... and thus the mission being completed.
@@aralornwolf3140 The thing with diplomats that you suggested, is that those species that did in fact destroy Voyager, would have pretty much returned with fleets themselves. I am saying there were a number of times that Voyager encountered entire sectors across their direct course, where a fleet would not have got through. These were everything from a species that had full control of their space, such as the swarm, 8472 and the Borg, to an entire sector of space that was full of natural anomalies that would have destroyed a fleet. In fact, there was a sector that had a vast drifting graveyard that was far larger and more denser than the Chintoka sector, the site of two battles during the Dominion War, except, this graveyard was the result of an armada of refugee ships that got decimated from the unstable environment. It turns out, that the instability was caused by attraction of those anomalies to warp energies of vast amounts. In each occasion, the main advantage was the simple fact that Voyager could avoid the worst of those situations because it was alone.
This is more than it was first thought out. This video gives a better explanation as to why the whole series started with in the first place. Starfleet knew about it, but weren't in charge of it. I can see Sector 31 doing that. And they had someone inside as intelligence. (I'll get back to this.) And at some point his equipment got damaged so he couldn't always send messages. Who? I have only two guesses. Nicholas Locarno/Tom Paris or Tuvok. Paris? For his crimes in Starfleet being dropped. or Tuvok who wouldn't have a problem keeping it a secret. And I will take it a step further. Not only tech but also information. What if they found another race that Starfleet could partner with to make them stronger than the Romulans? At the time Starfleet and Romulus were equals (Almost) and enemies as well. And what if they could figure out how to use the method the ship was transported by examinig Voyager if and when it got back to Earth. That itself would be considered worth the whole ordeal. This is just off the top of my head.
Pathfinder knew to look in the delta quadrant because of the doctor being sent to USF Prometheus the pan fry their project had been started until after the doctor I've been sent there
Sending ships from far away means less grief from yet another Cal Hudson, or Tom Paris, or Ro Laren. Assign someone to that general area, say, one Michael Eddington, and let him get close, and there's a fair chance he'll go rogue. Reduce the risk of that by rotating your personnel and assets frequently.
What you're saying ties in well with the events of The Voyager Conspiracy. It seems that Seven was indeed correct in her assessment that Voyager had been brought to the Delta quadrant intentionally by Starfleet, but wirhout the knowledge of the Equinox being lost her conclusion as to why this happened (to bring Seven home) and thinking Janeway was complicit in it was flawed.
Starfleet sending ships on missions other than they’re designed for, gee that never happens. It’s not as if the Defiant, one of if not the most powerful ship in the Federation, was often sent on exploration and scientific missions, and Oberth class ships definitely didn’t fight at Wolf 359. Honestly this all seems far fetched. If Starfleet sent Voyager out intentionally to get abducted, that was basically a death sentence, there was absolutely no guarantee they would survive to make it back to the Federation.
My headcanon is that Voyager represents the OFFICIAL Starfleet report of what happened to the USS Voyager, not necessarily the actual facts on what happened or why.
was it ever confirmed the Equinox was taken from the bad lands? or by the same caretaker? i actually though it was implied they got taken by the female caretaker and were put in a whole different part of the DQ
Don't forget the microwormhole that put them in touch with a Romulan science vessel in the past. The scientist may have shared the details with Starfleet before he died.
It is also possible Romulan intelligence intercepted or otherwise obtained the personal records of Telek R'Mor. At that point it is conceivable they might have traded the data for something to elements of the Federation. In time this would have contributed to the promotion of the Pathfinder Project and assignment of Barclay who had both the apptitude and personal characteristics to ensure unorthodox applications of the array would be considered internally, such as reaching Voyager.
but who is to say they did not already know much of this info but were only awaiting confirmation the ship was still viable, and not destroyed or captured. The Doctor angle really changes nothing.
@@DonaldDucksRevenge - and we know from DS9 that the Tal'Shiar had been compromised by section 31 by the 2370s. So if Romulan intelligence got R'Mor's report then so did 31. I wonder if Janeway's original first officer was a Section 31 plant... 🤔
The reason Pathfinder looked in the delta quadrant was because Starfleet were told that they were there by the Doctor in "Message in a Bottle" in season 4.
Also the contact they made with the Romulans through the microwormhole. The Romulan end was in the past before Voyager was even built so it's entirely possible that Section 31 knew in advance.
And they say Seven of Nine was reaching in The Voyager Conspiracy... 🙂 This was Voyager's first mission. You don't send a deep space exploration vessel on a multiyear outing on its first trip out of space dock. Janeway herself explains in Caretaker that Voyager's relative small size and its bioneural gel packs allow the ship to manoeuver the Badlands more easily than other vessels. The Maquis mission really is an ideal shakedown cruise. First you get to spend a few weeks traveling through friendly territory, allowing you to work out the kinks in time for the Badlands. And with Tuvok retrieved, the senior bridge crew would be complete and Voyager could launch from DS9 for a new mission deeper into uncharted space.
Exactly! And the fact the Val Jean was in the Badlands was mostly coincidence, anyway. Tuvok could’ve given away their position anywhere in Maquis territory - much of it just coincidentally being in the Badlands - but it ended up being there, because that was where the Maquis planned to attack Gul Evek. There was no other reason both ships happened to be in the Badlands, at the time.
Starfleet is known for placing Trainees and Junior Officers in Senior Positions, likely because of testing and performance while at Starfleet Academy, Kim was likely an Cadet that had been a good Cadet, he lack some personal Judgement skills, but was a Good Cadet and seen as a Good Senior Officer for a new ship. Paris on the other hand was initially only their to provide insight into the Maquis, he was effectively on a Work-Release from Prison, his boasting about his piloting skills is what likely landed him the Senior officer position assigned to the Helm. It is possible the Voyager had other Junior Officers aboard but it is also likely that Voyager was operating on a Skeleton Crew for the Shakedown cruise. As another commentor noted, Starfleet thought Voyager was lost with all hands in the Badlands until the conclusion of Message in a Bottle when we find out that aboard the Prometheus that the Doctor Provided a Full Debrief on Voyager and it's activities in the Delta Quadrant. this initiates the Pathfinder Project. Again Starfleet is known for sending Cadets and Junior Officers into the field on Training voyages, as part of a Shakedown cruise, and as Junior Officers, it is likely that Kim fresh out of the Academy was assigned as a Senior Officer because of his performance in SFA and that a Shakedown cruise is considered a milk run. Had Voyager not been sent to the Delta Quadrant, Janeway would have provided Starfleet with a field Performance Evaluation of Ensign Kim and he would have either been promoted to Lt. Jr. or been reassigned as a Junior Officer on another ship. If Voyager is a Deep Space Exploration Ship, the permanent crew would have been composed of Officers that understood that they would not be returning to Federation territory for many years, Kim would not have been an ideal candidate for a Long-Term mission given his desire to stay close to home, made apparent when he violates SF rules and Regulations to find shortcuts.
The previous ships had been returned. No reason to think Captain McMurder would go off on a crusade. Starfleet had every reason to believe that voyager would be returned.
Counterpoint: sending _Voyager_ to the Badlands to get Tuvok and some terrorists makes perfect sense if after that, it's going to be stationed at DS9 to explore the other side of the Bajoran wormhole. If they're going there anyway, just have them do a police raid on the way.
I think most of us fans were really gratified when Barclay finally found Voyager after like 6 years. Voyager was closer to home than before and hope was reinforced. Luckily they didn't take the route toward the Gamma Quadrant!
@@damenwhelan3236 The Equinox was destroyed, and her captain was deceased. As for her crew, they managed to save a few of them, and shortly after stripped them of rank for mutiny.
Largest unresolved plot point: Chakotay was considered important enough for Starfleet to send an officer as a deep cover operative and when lost Voyager to recover both, meanwhile, the Cardassians, (using TH-cam spell-check) also considered Chakotay important enough to send one of their own, disguised as a Bajoran, to find Chakotay. This seems like a lot effort and resources to find one man AND NEVER GIVE ANY EXPLANATION AS FOR WHAT THAT REASON WAS!
Well, one could make the argument why Janeway and an Intrepid-class ship was send is: a) the new class shall get more tested under real-life conditions AND b) with it, the more non-combat focused Captains that flooded the ranks with the post Wolf359 rearmament program, get some actuall combat experence against a not serious thread like the Marquis, before they're send against a reall foe like this mysterious Dominion... and thats why you also keep back you best horses like a Sisko and Defiant.
Janeway had combat experience though, she fought the Cardassians and in one episode recalled a 3 day siege where her squad was cut off and was in a continuous fire fight.
Voyager was probably sent because they thought the marquee had somehow destroyed the equinox and wanted answers so they sent a more powerful updated ship that could handle the job not knowing that they were captured by the caretaker array
@@DavidKnowles0 - possibly older. The Nova had that Sovereign vibe while the Intrepid was in that difficult transition period between Galaxy and Sovereign. The Intrepid still has the old Galaxy-style nacelles and escape pods. Plus the TNG tech manual states that the Nova was initially slated as a much bigger ship to replace the Galaxy. Clearly after the Borg and Dominion were discovered those plans changed. The Nova from Voyager is pretty much an early Defiant design with a secondary deflector in place of pulse phasers.
@@FirebirdPrince - if they'd sent the Defiant it would've been a much shorter show. Defiant has even less amenities than the Nova and can't even fire phasers without having to swap out the emitters. It would've lasted about a month in the delta quadrant.
It is hard to believe they didn't know. as the region would have been in constant sensor surveillance. they would have seen other ships taken by the energy wave. Plus another ship was lost in the same way long before. They would have been able to track the direction of the wave. They new where to start looking. I am sure the Midus array was already under development before voyagers departure. The crew chosen wasn't the best of the best, otherwise expendable. As for Barkly. He was changed by alien technology. He was fundamentally changed and would have been able to use knowledge on at least on a subconscious level.
One of the books at the time said that Voyager's mission was going to be deep space exploration of the Gamma Quadrant, so them going to DS9 and detouring to retrieve a crewman before setting out makes some sense.
I have been toying with this idea for a while. Janeway was a pet of Admiral Paris - a very senior starfleet admiral and probably had every confidence in her ability to carry out such a difficult mission and maybe sent his deadbeat son along with her hoping it would straighten him out. Voyager was one of the most state of the art ships in the fleet. A long range tactical vessel with impressive scientific and research facilities and like you said - incredibly fuel efficient and a long range. She had every chance starfleet could give her of being able to return from wherever she was sent. She could also land and carry out serious maintenance overhauls. I think they knew ships were disappearing in the badlands and knew if anyone could work out where they were going and who or whom was taking them it was Voyager. It was probably one of the very few ships in the fleet which would have the ability to carry out such a potentially hazardous mission in a way that even the Galaxy class cruisers probably wouldn't have been able to.
It makes sense. Send an expendable crew on a risky mission, but make sure if they disappear, they are on a ship that is designed to handle long term journeys with no outside aid. For Star Fleet command it is a win-win. They find out what happened to the previous ships, while having their latest ship, Voyager, explore the unknown areas that Star Fleet could not otherwise reach. This is likely why when Voyager returned, Janeway was promoted to Admiral. To keep an eye on her and pay her off. It is likely the rest of the crew of Voyager was paid off as well in someway for their silence. To be fair, on their journey, Voyager created around as many messes as their solved.
didn't the caretaker say it had been scanning the entire galaxy and taking ships? if it had been doing this for a while and returning ship to their point of origin, then it is possible starfleet knew about the caretaker and had sensor reading of the displacement wave and detected the very same wave when the Val Jean disappeared. and well if Voyager didn't make it back it was one small ship, a green captain and limited crew
All these posts and no one's brought up the Tri-Cobalt weapons? A WMD from 70 years earlier, a different Starfleet, a weapon that was only eclipsed by the Quantum Torpedo. A weapon that was _not_ part of a standard load out but by happenstance was pulled out of mothballs, refurbished and loaded up on a state of the art explorer with a green captain and crew. Why? 🤔
Exactly !! Seven was right about the whole conspiracy but once she went off on a tangent in the second half of the episode all those facts were conveniently ignored
i see it that way : Intrepid was brand new type of ship - in essence it was in it's shakedown period - so they gave janeway an easy mission - grab some terrorists (in a far inferior vessel in comaprison to Janeway's) thus stopping some Maqui terroris activities - and in the same time grab some of their personel for interrogation (to get more info as well) all the while giving the ship itself a rather mild trashing to see if it works properly - in that setup Janeways mission makes a lot of sense - on top of that keep in mind Tom's father was an admiral - so he might have quietly pushed the mission forward as well in order to get his kid out of prison and send him on the "clean slate" if he pulled throught the mission properly - sure it's a therory but if an admiral wanted to get his kid out of prison "properly" then that would be a good way to do it as it would check all the usuall federation check boxes (grab terrorists - check, check out new ship - check - good PR - check - and getting your no good son out of prison - check. So giving the ship an easy mission first before sending it of on a REALLY long journey to check it ouf first under those conditionts makes a lot of sense.
Section 31?? what is that .....you ...should ....move ..on .....i would not want you to end up like .....ODO....now listen carefully ..................HOW MANY LIGHTS DO YOU SEE
I can't wait for Changeling Janeway to make an appearance in Picard next week. That will open up a whole new world of Lore Reloaded conspiracy theories!
Just no. There is no evidence that Starfleet had any intelligence of the Caretaker or any such technology and the Caretaker took ships from all over the galaxy. There is nothing that indicates that the Badlands was the only hunting grounds for the Caretaker. We do not even know if the Equinox was taken from there. Your argument about the Pathfinder Project is just sloppy. There is an entire episode about how the Doctor travels to the USS Prometheus to inform Starfleet about Voyagers location. From there, calculating where Voyager is not beyond Starfleets capacity. As for why picking Voyager despite the inexperienced crew? Sometimes the best option is not available. They needed a ship that could handle a longer stay chasing after the Maquis in that general area and time was not really of the essence.
I most respectfully disagreee with this conspiracy theory. Frist: Starfleet sent unsuitable ships on unfitting missions for its class before. Remember it sent a Galaxy class ship on transport missions. Second: Captain Janeway was the Captain of choice. She is a friend and the contact of Tuvok on his mission and he is her tactical officer. Starfleet has a benefit by using Janeway to find the marquis. As a former science officer she seems predestined to traverse the Badlands and find the Marquis ship. Third: Starfleet knew the type of Marquis vessel. Though Runabouts could have been used, it poses the question what to do when the Raider was captured. Brig the crew and tow the Raider out of the Badlands by a Runabout seems unfitting. Adding the fact that Runabouts lack in its shielding capabilities. Voyager's more capable shielding, its manoeuvrability, vast facilities and technological enhancements made her more suitable for this mission than a Runabout. Fourth: Catching the Marquis ship has been Voyager's first mission. The Enterprise-D's first mission was to check the facility Farpoint. These missions can be seen as "post-launching test missions" to get the fleas out of the machine. The point is first missions are not always glorious and fitting to the class. But I appreciate your work!
Do you read these, please I can't find it, *what did Shatner say about your life*, you said it during your xindi recap and its bugging the frell out of me.....👍👌👍🖖
Intrepid is unsuitable for Search and Rescue operations....... It's a Long Range Multirole ship capable of fulfilling the entire range of Starfleet missions profiles with the best sensors in the fleet. And it is capable of landing on a planet. Unsuitable for Search and Rescue my arse, you need to put more thought into these or ask someone else to do a proof read and fact check your scripts.
It would actually be rather ironic if by sheer coincidence every single section 31 operative died when voyager was pulled into the delta quadrant. We know the first officer, Doctor and chief engineer died as well as a hand full of others, leaving only Janeway and Tuvok as the original senior staff, if you were doing a covert ops path finding mission and were a cell based ntelligebce network, you simply wouldn’t have the resources to send a dedicated S31 ship fully crewed with S31 operatives, you’d send a ship of the line with a handful of operatives embedded and at key positions to easily carry out the S31 missions. You’d want the FM and Doctor positions at the very least as that makes things easy in a lot of ways and maybe 3-5 rank and file operatives for away missions.
I can't recall, was the Pathfinder Project initiated once Voyager made contact with the Alpha Quadrant via the Hirogen network? Then they were able to pass along further information to Starfleet HQ via the Prometheus this way giving the Pathfinder Project even more of a localization of where Voyager is? I may be wrong, I haven't seen the series in over 20 years.
By sending your tech into an unknown zone you can’t reach you basically increase the oddds of your enemy knowing your tech and making counters rather you will gain
This is a sound theory of why Voyager was picked for the assignment. However, Janeway turned out to be more resourceful in the end, also got a lot of help from crew and Seven to get back to Earth. And they brought back a lot of technology including Borg enhanced ship armor plating.
I’ve often gotten stuck on why they sent voyager after Tuvok when the defiant or another closer ship to get him or find out what happened or even use intelligence assets within the maquis or even Cardassia to find out what happened to him. Seemed like over kill and too much time invested for such a mission
Defiant was on either a first contact mission to the Dominion, or an exploration mission in the Gamma Quadrant at the time, if memory serves. It was a mission that required everyone except Quark. Even Odo was off on that mission.
Early in season 1,weren't they able to find a very small wormhole that led back to Romulan Space, in the past ?. i recall they they beamed him through the wormhole and he took messages back with him. It was reported that he had died a while ago ,but what about those messages? If 31 got a hold of those messages ,they would have a list of who is supposed to be on Voyager and saw the potential .
Section 31 may have infiltrated the Tal Shiar before 2371, so they would have know about a Federation ship from the future called Voyager being trapped in the Delta Quadrant.
@@VestedUTuber How would the DoTI know unless someone working for both S31 and DoTI passed on the information to their DoTI colleagues? I imagine the DoTI would have a number of S31 operatives in it's ranks as a matter of course. Temporal matters would be of great concern to S31.
@@blitzerblazinoah6838 Other way around. S31 may be the "behind the scenes" covert ops and intelligence agency of the Federation, but they're still tied to their timeline. DoTI has jurisdiction over and beyond them for the purposes of maintaining the stability of the timeline, and likely has agents planted within S31. Plus they have means of monitoring the timeline itself, so they could easily have identified the initial crossover point afterwards and sent an agent over to that crossover point. Heck, the Romulan receiving the message could have been a DoTI agent in disguise. Or not even in disguise, but just from a point in time after the destruction of Romulus.
I have a few disagreements. 1) Sending Voyager to find the Maquis was probably more of a "political" decision rather than practical. It shows both the Maquis and the Cardassians that Starfleet will spare no expense to stop the Maquis. Sending their newest ship would definitely send that message. 2) Trans-galactic communication is definitely a project Starfleet would have been studying for many years by the time of Voyager. So, the Pathfinder project isn't surprising. It was probably given much greater priority after Voyage made contact via the Promethious incident. 3) It's never stated where in the Alpha quadrant the Equinox was taken from. 4) Voyager is definitely an anti-borg ship. But Starfleet doesn't make "warships" (Liars) So, having a "Science" captain instead of a "Command" captain is yet another political decision rather than a practical decision.
What if Voyager was sacrificed to destroy the caretaker array so that no other Federation ship gets scooped up? After all they did have just the right amount of tricobalt devices to X the array...in this scenario, even if the caretaker didn't die, Janeway would still find some other way to justify to her crew why they must destroy the array... Janeway was in on it, but after living and bonding with her new crew she eventually goes back in time to undue some of the damage Star fleet did to them... The end
That’s why star fleet is experimenting with different drive systems to be able to go further in less time thanks to voyager they left bread crumbs behind the deeper in the delta quadrant they went and charted most the delta quadrant already so if star fleet decides to go to the delta quadrant on purpose they will know what areas to avoid Star fleet really didn’t want to risk sending another ship after them they would have probably gotten completely lost
Let us not forget (ALL) of Seven's Theories on this matter before Janeway reeled her back, which is worth reviewing & might give us more insight to this matter.
I always thought the only reason Janeway got a command in the first place is because of the looming Dominion war. Starfleet was expanding it's fleet and had to lower it's standards. Wouldn't surprise me if the entire Voyager crew were just the bottom of Starfleet's minimal acceptable standards and all shoved into one ship to absorb fire meant for a defiant class. Which is why it was picked to get whisked away to the Delta Quadrant. Voyage only really made it back because Janeway was a complete psychopath, which made her perfect Starfleet Admiral material.
Intrepid class vessels spent the whole war playing diplomatic and scouting roles because they were the fastest in the fleet and had the absolute best sensors before sovereign came out. Admiral Ross used one as his command ship. Also star fleet was terrified that one of the ships would fall into dominion hands so they kept them safe. The technology onboard was cutting edge so the crew were highly qualified, except Janeway obviously who got the command despite being a science officer and never holding command before because daddy was an Admiral. All these ships went to Admirals expect the one that went to an Admirals unqualified daughter. wink wink.
I really wish Paramount would make that "Legacy" series. We see all the cast from Voyager and DS9. Do the same as Picard did in Season 3. I would really love to see what happened to Tuvok after the changelings, Janeway being an admiral, Captain 7 of 9, and Ensign Kim where he would be by that point. (I assume still a Captain.) And of course DS9 cast. They have a huge chance there to pick up where the series left off.
This actually might be one of the reasons why they promoted Janeway when they returned instead of kicking her out of Starfleet for violating the Prime Directive.
CAPTAIN JANEWAY........ EXCUSE ME ........ NOW ADMIRAL JANEWAY........ DID THE VERY BEST SHE COULD, AND THAT PROOFED TOO BE MORE THAN ENOUGH!!!!!!!!! I WOULD HAVE PROMPTED HER TOO FLEET ADRIMAL..... BY THE WAY ...
Another possibility didn't consider is that if it was Section 31 who did it, it could be related to the Borg. They roughly know where the Borg is, and if they already know that The Caretaker would take them to the Delta Quadrant as a one-way trip, they can learn awful lot about their opponent, and use a ship that could survive the trip and the Borg to gain important intelligence to counter them. Though of course as we all know it worked a little _too_ well, and they ended up _taking out_ most of the Borg.
At the time Voyager was shipped to the Badlands, the Dominion had already been infiltrating various Alpha/Beta Quadrant worlds with changelings. There were changelings on Earth. Who's to say that the Dominion didn't help orchestrate Equinox and Voyager (with plans to do the same to others) to reduce Federation resources in the inevitable war.
As my pal kakarot197 would there's an in universe explanation and a real world explanation. In universe is well we could send Sisko to get the ship Tuvok is on and he might blow them up because it's Sisko shuttles were never his strong suit. Then we have the real world explanation you send a brand new captain and the B team pretty much on a mission that makes almost no sense...you're saying Star Trek Voyager had bad writters 😲🤯 say it isn't so.
I'm not all that familiar with Voyager aside from a few episodes and the main cast, but Section 31 placing Voyager in such a position to be whisked away by the Caretaker does make some sense. One assumption I can think of is that they considered the Caretaker a threat and lured him into taking Voyager, bringing their "strikeforce" right to his doorstep. Though, in this case, they wouldn't send any of their own personnel because it wouldn't be prudent to send them that far away while there are more pressing issues in the "home" quadrants. Another assumption is that Section 31's target was the Borg, and they used the Caretaker AND Voyager to deal with them. Trick the Caretaker into transporting them there, and Voyager will end up doing the rest, as was the case.
Section 31, may have been aware that the Voyager crew stopped Starling in the 1990's. The images of Voyager from back then could have been enhanced with A.I. They also may have obtained that from the Time cops. The tech Spock developed when he was trapped in the 1930's may have been retrieved by Section 31 and adapted with more modern tech in order to make use of it.
I Think the Intrepid Class USS Voyager was Created officially for Exploration However Unofficially the Class of Ship was Created to Fight the Borg, I Heard that Many Classes of Ships were Created after the Battle of Sector 001 When the Enterprise D Almost Barley Destroyed the Borg Cube Through Locutus and with the Help of Data, So Starfleet Created Classes of Ships to Fight the Borg and the Intrepid Class Maybe One of them.
interesting take. While I'd probably go with Starfleet heads being utter numpties, I could well imaging some section 31 shenanigans now that they've made it obligatory that section 31 has to be mentioned or hinted at in some capacity at least once in each new trek episode and thus totally strip it of its secrecy.
I think actually a lot of it was a good idea sending Voyager to the Badlands 1. Janeway was a good pick in my opinion for Captain because she was a scientist first and during a time when Starfleet was building more heavily armed ships like The Prometheus, Ambassador Class, and Defiant it Voyager was a ship designed for more scientific and explorative purposes 2. Tom Paris was perfect for helmsman because you have a starship capable of operating inside the atmosphere of a planet and going into a very tricky region of space so it would help to have a good pilot. Also he’s a convict and his father is an admiral the idea is he gets sent on this easy mission of going after a Maquis ship where they have a man on the inside. 3. The Maquis did have sympathizers in the federation. It does make sense to pull the crew from a bit further away hoping to get people that weren’t working with the Maquis.
Doubtful... What'd be something is seeing just how SFC .. woulda been able to do ANYTHING to stop it .. remember Lore an all, the Caretaker told them ITSELF it brought them there. The Marquis too... Remember this at the time is their best crew crewing the SF's BEST an most advanced ship at the time. They didn't know if Voyager was alive an in one piece or if they'd died somehow. Imagine their surprise at how well they ALSO did. Returning NOT JUST with vast majority of they original crew BUT said original mission target... Many of THEM, WAS ALSO successfully integrated into the crew. Some in key positions.. not to mention the luck the critical slots needed just happened to be on Voyager while the Maquis personnel just happened to be REALLY OVER qualified for each role an turned out to be naturals at it. AN on hearing the whole show as we know it... "Oh an we found what was left of the Equinox crew.. they left all is combined crew mostly to die but we over that ... Working through some an the handful of survivors we saved are all good now..." They DID want a good Captain. It jus turned out to be Janeway. Janeway an crew got EXCEPTIONALLY lucky is all. Remember it's ALSO a late series arc they realized was gonna be probably said anyways.. that SF eventually lost hope of EVER so much as hearing about or from them again... You DONT send one of your best ships after just one mere terrorist ship. Deliberately, to lose it like THAT, it's a wonder any them made it at all. An if you analyze the WHILE Voyager Series... It's odd like that AF an technically they DIDN'T... When you talk about an consider mirror verse type, time travel/altering episodes an like
Admiral Janeway proved herself the best captain of them all; after being in deemed 'acceptable loss'. Got ship & crew home against all odds w/no shipyards or support, defeating powerful know/borg & unknown species 8472 adversaries .. Without doubt she is the 'smartnest; an actual scientist/warrior...
Listen up, Starfleet is no longer a starfleet used to be before. I am going against the STARFLEET and SEND them back to their , NO, our origin INTENT! TO HELL WITH OUR ORDER. Agree one step forward and AGAINST 2 steps behind! I am Commander HELLILOW🤣😂🤣
Yep, I always thought that it was rather convenient that the one ship actually capable of the sustained high warp required to actually ever get back is the one taken. There's also the episode that Seven goes down a conspiracy theory rabbit hole, where she points out there's no logical reason Voyager would be carrying the tricobalt explosives used to destroy the Caretaker Array. She may have been on to something.
1:35 "Adequately prepared". 40-50 torpedoes (I'm not sure how many shots Voyager expended unseen while Janeway & Tuvok were on the array) 2 medical staff for an estimated crew of 150-160. No counselor to evaluate this newly assembled crew... and it was new. I get the impression the first officer, chief medical officer, chief engineer & helm officer & operations officer were all new to this captain... and probably to each other. Tuvok was Captain Janeway's only apparent holdover. The surviving crew (Rollins, Carey, Hogan, Vorik) apparently learned nothing / had no attachment to the officers lost in Caretaker... those officer's names are never mentioned, not even once, again. The ship's supply situation reeks of 2-week shakedown cruise.
People have already mentioned the Doctor being sent to Prometheus in Season 4, as the reason for Project Pathfinder. There's also another possibility that would have been just a rumour to Starfleet before... there's an episode in either Season 1 or 2, where Voyager contacts a Romulan vessel by using a dying, unstable wormhole... but the signal is bouncing back and forth through time, and the Romulan was in the past, by many years. He promised to send a message when "the time was right". We don't know if he managed to arrange it before he died. Even if that message got delivered, would Starfleet take it seriously at this point? It's before the Dominion War when they'd have received a message from an untrusted source that sounds completely bonkers. Then the Doctor gets transported... so if the message was received before, this would have confirmed it. Either way: no, I don't think they threw Voyager to the dogs as you're suggesting. This was Voyagers shakedown cruise. A simple "nab and grab" police action in a section of space, after a few weeks worth of a trip to get to it, is more than correct for a first voyage. They'd have either been sent off from DS9 for their "real first mission" into deep space, or returned to Sol for any updates if any issues were revealed in the shakedown.
My biggest problem with Voyager is the lack of scientists on a vessel of exploration. Most personnel should be wearing blue, not gold or red. Command red would be the smallest % of personnel on the ship. Harry should be in red, or blue, because navigation and operation are typically not associated with engineering or security. 20% of a crew are officers, 80% enlisted, so where are all of the enlisted people? Voyager is truer to TOS than "Diplomacy Mission Enterpise-D" in TNG, or "Cruise Ship Enterprise-D" in TNG.
Interesting points. Possible. But not plausible. A few gaping holes in this theory. 1. Voyager didn't have its second warp drive, Aero Shuttle or other systems installed. 2. Additional provisions would have been held (fuel, gel packs, medical supplies, etc) 3. A proper communication system would have been installed. 4. Voyager would have been kitted out with more sensors, shields and weapons than a dozen Defiants. 5. You would send more experienced and specialized personnel. Janeway was too green. So was Kim. Additionally, "Message in a Bottle" dispels the point of how Starfleet knew they were in the Delta Quadrant.
Its an inside job to gather more intel on the Borg in the Delta Quadrant. Raven and Equinox were both scout/vanguard for this. With Equinox they found the shortcut because of the Caretaker. Voyager subsequentky was designed/modified for going to the Delta Qudrant right off the bat. I think Admiral Patterson knew. He recruited Janeway without her knowing. The Badlands mission was just a cover. I will go so far to think even USS Prometheus was meant to go into the Delta Quadrant, after having no contact with Voyager. But those pesky Romulans messed that up
Re; Janeway as captain. You've probably never been in the military..which is fine but if you had you'd have instantly recognized that Janeway has a "Rabi". This a a slang term for someone with pull that's taken an interest in you and your career and proves the whole ( it's not what you know but WHO you know). Then there's the good ol habit of advancement for officers-people who've taken certain classes over FAR more qualified people who hold their superior upon their shoulders and often run along the razors edge of manipulating, "advising ",ignoring, actually being in control but not command with the newbie officer's ego and need to succeed. Done well everyone's better off for it. Yeah or I'm completely wrong and don't know what I'm talking about. It's probably one of those. Thank you for the upload. Great as per usual. Semper Fidelis
I disagree. Recall that at this point, Wolf 359 had left an embarrassing and indelible scar on Starfleet. Now, I think, and emphasize think, the Intrepid class was in development ether before, or just after Wolf 359, but originally it wasn't a designed born of the Borg invasion, it just profited off of it. On top of that, The Dominion were a major threat at this time, putting more pressure on Starfleet planners. This meant that more ships, which need more people. Look at how the majority of these ships are small vessels with small crews. In fact, in DS9: In the Pale Moonlight, the Romulan senator even mentions their manpower shortage (during the war, but it had to start somewhere). Starfleet possibly built over 5,000 new ships during this time, recommissioned probably another 3-5,000, and retrofit as many old vessels as they could; all of which need new staff. That means some ships are going to get your Picard's and Rikers (The Enterprise E comes to mind) but it also means that greener CO's and crews are going to be placed into positions they normally wouldn't have. It is possible that Starfleet wondered about the Equinox and the Maqui Raider, their sensors probably picked up the odd readout from the Cartaker's wave, but this would have made sending in Voyager more logical than Defiant. Defiant was needed at DS9, also the ship wasn't heavily trusted and wasn't designed for exploration. It isn't at DS9 when the Voyager launches. Its also possible that the Defiant was sent to look for the crew initially, they found traces of the Cartakers wave, but couldn't Identify it. So they sent in a ship with state of the art features to follow up...Voyager. As far as Pathfinder, I think that was an observatory project they had started prior and unrelated that was used to contact Voyager after VOY: Ship in a Bottle. Now, I will admit there is one thing supporting your argument. It is possible that the Cartaker's wave could have been identified as something from an artificial source. So they probably assumed that whatever caused it, there was an intelligence behind it, and by sending Voyager, with Janeway who is a scientist, probably could figure out how to use it. Such a tech would have been useful to Starfleet could it be used more safely. It almost worked out too. But I think Voyager wasn't an inside job, or a conspiracy. It was an example of the problem with post Wolf 359 staffing issues.
Ummm… someone forgot to watch VOY season 4 ep.14 “Message in a bottle” - EMH sent to alpha quadrant to tell starfleet what happened…. But brings up a good question regarding Uss Equinox: what was that puny Nova class doing in the badlands? What was their original mission - that was never fully explained.
@Lore, According to the DTI novels, Starfleet did know about Voyager being stuck in the Delta Quadrant and wanted them to follow through, because without this event, according to 31st Century Starfleet, there was no possible future timeline where the Federation or any civilization other tan the Borg Collective would exist by 26th century. Essentially, this was their Dr. Strange type damage analysis, send Voyager into the Delta Quadrant, where they will do what they would and eventually get tech and/or kill the Borg in the final outcome. I like that explanation.
5.53 -6.01 ,you are incorrect as Project Pathfinder only start after Voyager EMH Doctor revealed to Starfleet that the USS Voyager still exict ,because before that the ship listed as missing / gone ,,
Starfleet Command Are morons, so that's out. Intelligence has Next to nothing to do with that (I would actually look at SF's Department of Temporal Investigations, if you're going that route.) Section 31 makes the most sense: the Romulans had not only the knowledge, but also a (mostly complete!) crew list (thanks to that Romulan scientist from 50 years ago) And Section 31 even had the head of the Tal Shiar as one of their informants. All Section 31 had to do was put together the crew list and find a way to give it without SFC's incompetence screwing it up.
When Voyager was launched, the Defiant wasn't out of mothballs. As seem in "message in a bottle" Voyager had no knowledge of the Dominion. The Defiant was redeployed after the Dominion had made overt acts against Starfleet in DS9's Season 3 episode 1. To your point a runabout could had captured them, runabouts have been shown to not have powerful enough engines to maneuver properly in the ion storms.
1: Voyager was equipped with new tech that made navigating the badlands easier. 2: While the runabouts might be able to handle the Val Jean in combat Voyager was better equipped for a fight. Plus neither the Defiant nor the runabouts were equipped with the bio neural tech that made it safer and easier for Voyager to navigate the Badlands. 3: Voyager was an exploration ship, and DS9 made a perfect staging area for exploration missions into the Gamma Quadrant. They pick up Tuvok, seize or destroy the Val Jean then resupply, make any needed repairs, and launch on an exploration mission. 4: Paris was only on board because his knowledge of Maquis hiding spots was useful to the hunt for the Val Jean. He wasn't a member of the crew until the original helmsman was killed during the transition to the Delta Quadrant. 5: As many other people have mentioned why are you ignoring the fact that Project Pathfinder knew where Voyager was because the Doctor briefly returned to the Alpha Qy=uadrant and told them where Voyager was?
Theory: Future Admiral Janeway conspired with Agent Daniels of the 31st Century Starfleet's Temporal Integrity Commission to alter the timeline to allow Voyager to be sent to the Delta Quadrant in order to destroy the Borg transwarp conduits, Unimatrix 0 and the Borg Queen. But since the Queen is in control of the collective, she simply changed bodies before her current vessel was destroyed by the Admiral's neurolytic pathogens [hence the queen's return in Picard]. Voyager's selection for the Maquis mission was due to it's state of the art scientific sensors and capabilities which would have allowed it to better navigate the badlands and later the Delta Quadrant.
Project Pathfinder was started after Starfleet found out that Voyager was in the Delta Quadrant when the Doctor had been sent to the USS Prometheus. Starfleet didn't even know Voyager was still in existence before the Prometheus event.
the doctor probably gave them a rough estimate of the course Voyager would be taking.
Part of the plan
@@qwilliams1539 all to convenient don’t you think?!??
My thoughts exactly.
I’ll bet you guys believe the moon landing was faked too
I think that a temporal causal loop story involving Section 31 and the Romulans would have made a good conspiracy story about Voyager and how it ended up on that mission. Remember the episode, "Eye of the Needle" where they find that micro wormhole and a Romulan scientist on the other end, followed by what Mr Barclay said in another episode involving the pathfinder project? "The Romulans have been curious about Voyager for years!" This was probably because the time space wormhole or, "Harry Kim Wormhole" as Mr Paris named it had a temporal displacement of 20 years IIRC, something they only discovered after transporting Romulan scientist Telek R'Mor on to Voyager through it. After discovering this they sent him back with letters from the crew which he said he would give to Starfleet 20 years later, however Tuvok discovered that he died 4 years before Voyager launched which meant he could not have sent the messages on. Torres then speculated that he may have left a will asking someone else to transmit the messages or given the computer chip from Voyager to the Romulan government. Based on what reg Barclay said, "The Romulans have been curious about Voyager for years" it would seem that they did get the letters they left with Telek R'Mor and were aware of what happened to the ship perhaps long before the events in Caretaker. It would make sense from their perspective to let this happen, they've wanted to explore the Delta quadrant for a long time but why risk one of their own ships when they knew two of ours made it? Val Jean and Voyager. It's possible Section 31 also knew about what happened beforehand given their clandestine connections with the Romulan empire, hence the nonsensical mission being launched in the first place. Temporal causal loop complete.
Pathfinder was looking for Voyager in the delta quadrant because the doctor told Starfleet where it was. He was sent to the alpha quadrant and fought Romulans with Andy Dick. Additionally, if it was the intention of purposely sending Voyager to the delta quadrant you would want a young crew like Harry Kim. After decades of returning, young crew will replace the older crew. You would want a somewhat trustworthy (to do what's in their best interest) person like Tom Paris is a completely alien situation to do the things the Starfleet personnel would find repulsive.
Still though, if they wanted to get a ship there I have no doubt there would be more than enough ideologues in Starfleet to easily put together an all volunteer perfectly trained and manned crew. It would be the ultimate exploration. More than enough would go even if they knew they would never live to see earth again.
Sorry, I disagree with everything you said 😆, but I do love the channel.
Did Lore Reloaded forget the other Federation ship which was taken by the Caretaker? It was half the size of Voyageur and it's crew didn't fare well... so they violate every Starfleet law in order to have a very slim hope of making it back to the Federation. I think by the time Voyageur encountered them, there was maybe 20 crew remaining... is this correct? That's the fate Voyageur should have had instead of the script writers magically repairing Voyageur, and somehow unkilling all the extra crew members, between story arcs...
If the Federation _was_ going to explore the Delta Quadrant they wouldn't have chosen a small ship like Voyageur, they would have chosen a larger ship which _could_ allow the people on board to bring along their family... so that their moral would be high as such a mission _would_ be a decade long mission... so children getting older, becoming junior officers... some of _them_ having children by the time the ship returns.
Of course, ideally, they would want an entire fleet of ships for such decade+ long mission. Several scout ships, like the Intrepid-class, to actually do the scouting and away missions, lead from a ship, like a Galaxy-class, outfitted as a mobile command post with 3 or 4 times the crew on board (to switch crews around of the other ships so all crews have a few months of R&R in a "safe" location while making sure the ships they were assigned to can still carry on with new orders), several smaller ships to act as protectors, like the Defiant-class, all supported by a fleet train which consists of a mining ships, a construction ship, at least 2 repair ships, and several other supply ships. All in all, a fleet of at least a dozen of ships, probably closer to 2 dozen ships, just to make sure the mission would be a success.
@@aralornwolf3140 The thing is, there were plenty of situations, where the presence of a fleet of Federation ships would have lead to destruction.
Instead of a fleet of ships, I would have sent either a science star cruiser, or, if the Vesta was active, one of those ships, since it is a multi mission ship, and twice Voyager's size.
Fought with Andy Dick. Well with him on your side, you're sure to win!! 😂😂
@@shauntempley9757 ,
Voyageur was captured and destroyed so many times in its seven TV seasons, that a single ship wouldn't have made it. As soon as _one_ aggressive species decided to take on that lone ship, it's gone. With a small fleet, with trained diplomats, they would be able to _avoid_ most of the altercations... maybe a little bit of trade (of information) for freedom of passage... perhaps a little bit of technology, or showing the species new mining/construction techniques would be enough.
By having multiple ships, when there _is_ an altercation, there is a higher likelihood of those ships surviving... and thus the mission being completed.
@@aralornwolf3140 The thing with diplomats that you suggested, is that those species that did in fact destroy Voyager, would have pretty much returned with fleets themselves.
I am saying there were a number of times that Voyager encountered entire sectors across their direct course, where a fleet would not have got through.
These were everything from a species that had full control of their space, such as the swarm, 8472 and the Borg, to an entire sector of space that was full of natural anomalies that would have destroyed a fleet.
In fact, there was a sector that had a vast drifting graveyard that was far larger and more denser than the Chintoka sector, the site of two battles during the Dominion War, except, this graveyard was the result of an armada of refugee ships that got decimated from the unstable environment.
It turns out, that the instability was caused by attraction of those anomalies to warp energies of vast amounts. In each occasion, the main advantage was the simple fact that Voyager could avoid the worst of those situations because it was alone.
This is more than it was first thought out. This video gives a better explanation as to why the whole series started with in the first place. Starfleet knew about it, but weren't in charge of it. I can see Sector 31 doing that. And they had someone inside as intelligence. (I'll get back to this.) And at some point his equipment got damaged so he couldn't always send messages. Who? I have only two guesses. Nicholas Locarno/Tom Paris or Tuvok. Paris? For his crimes in Starfleet being dropped. or Tuvok who wouldn't have a problem keeping it a secret. And I will take it a step further. Not only tech but also information. What if they found another race that Starfleet could partner with to make them stronger than the Romulans? At the time Starfleet and Romulus were equals (Almost) and enemies as well. And what if they could figure out how to use the method the ship was transported by examinig Voyager if and when it got back to Earth. That itself would be considered worth the whole ordeal. This is just off the top of my head.
Several people died in the move. Could be that the first officer or others where of section 31 but all died in the event.
@@gerble36 True, this could happen too.
Pathfinder knew to look in the delta quadrant because of the doctor being sent to USF Prometheus the pan fry their project had been started until after the doctor I've been sent there
Sending ships from far away means less grief from yet another Cal Hudson, or Tom Paris, or Ro Laren. Assign someone to that general area, say, one Michael Eddington, and let him get close, and there's a fair chance he'll go rogue. Reduce the risk of that by rotating your personnel and assets frequently.
What you're saying ties in well with the events of The Voyager Conspiracy. It seems that Seven was indeed correct in her assessment that Voyager had been brought to the Delta quadrant intentionally by Starfleet, but wirhout the knowledge of the Equinox being lost her conclusion as to why this happened (to bring Seven home) and thinking Janeway was complicit in it was flawed.
That would be some fun series ;) How they made Voyager take the voyage ;)
Nice one
Thanks
Starfleet sending ships on missions other than they’re designed for, gee that never happens. It’s not as if the Defiant, one of if not the most powerful ship in the Federation, was often sent on exploration and scientific missions, and Oberth class ships definitely didn’t fight at
Wolf 359. Honestly this all seems far fetched. If Starfleet sent Voyager out intentionally to get abducted, that was basically a death sentence, there was absolutely no guarantee they would survive to make it back to the Federation.
My headcanon is that Voyager represents the OFFICIAL Starfleet report of what happened to the USS Voyager, not necessarily the actual facts on what happened or why.
Voyager isn't an anti-borg ship, she just happened to get thoes refits and upgrades as the tech was developed
was it ever confirmed the Equinox was taken from the bad lands? or by the same caretaker? i actually though it was implied they got taken by the female caretaker and were put in a whole different part of the DQ
Barclay and the Pathfinder project knew they were in the DQ because The Doctor gave Starfleet Command a full briefing in Message in a Bottle.
Or... starfleet learned from other ships or other powers where the ships where being taken...
Don't forget the microwormhole that put them in touch with a Romulan science vessel in the past. The scientist may have shared the details with Starfleet before he died.
It is also possible Romulan intelligence intercepted or otherwise obtained the personal records of Telek R'Mor. At that point it is conceivable they might have traded the data for something to elements of the Federation. In time this would have contributed to the promotion of the Pathfinder Project and assignment of Barclay who had both the apptitude and personal characteristics to ensure unorthodox applications of the array would be considered internally, such as reaching Voyager.
but who is to say they did not already know much of this info but were only awaiting confirmation the ship was still viable, and not destroyed or captured. The Doctor angle really changes nothing.
@@DonaldDucksRevenge - and we know from DS9 that the Tal'Shiar had been compromised by section 31 by the 2370s. So if Romulan intelligence got R'Mor's report then so did 31.
I wonder if Janeway's original first officer was a Section 31 plant... 🤔
The reason Pathfinder looked in the delta quadrant was because Starfleet were told that they were there by the Doctor in "Message in a Bottle" in season 4.
Or... they knew from other ships having been returned..
Also the contact they made with the Romulans through the microwormhole. The Romulan end was in the past before Voyager was even built so it's entirely possible that Section 31 knew in advance.
@@nagillim7915 Right!
@@DonaldDucksRevenge Your name terrifies me. Lol!
And they say Seven of Nine was reaching in The Voyager Conspiracy... 🙂
This was Voyager's first mission. You don't send a deep space exploration vessel on a multiyear outing on its first trip out of space dock. Janeway herself explains in Caretaker that Voyager's relative small size and its bioneural gel packs allow the ship to manoeuver the Badlands more easily than other vessels.
The Maquis mission really is an ideal shakedown cruise. First you get to spend a few weeks traveling through friendly territory, allowing you to work out the kinks in time for the Badlands. And with Tuvok retrieved, the senior bridge crew would be complete and Voyager could launch from DS9 for a new mission deeper into uncharted space.
Exactly! And the fact the Val Jean was in the Badlands was mostly coincidence, anyway. Tuvok could’ve given away their position anywhere in Maquis territory - much of it just coincidentally being in the Badlands - but it ended up being there, because that was where the Maquis planned to attack Gul Evek. There was no other reason both ships happened to be in the Badlands, at the time.
The simplest explanation is the best: it's bad writing. And Voyager was full of it.
I see you have fully immersed yourself in the Starfleet kool-aid. good gooood hahahahahaha
Starfleet is known for placing Trainees and Junior Officers in Senior Positions, likely because of testing and performance while at Starfleet Academy, Kim was likely an Cadet that had been a good Cadet, he lack some personal Judgement skills, but was a Good Cadet and seen as a Good Senior Officer for a new ship. Paris on the other hand was initially only their to provide insight into the Maquis, he was effectively on a Work-Release from Prison, his boasting about his piloting skills is what likely landed him the Senior officer position assigned to the Helm. It is possible the Voyager had other Junior Officers aboard but it is also likely that Voyager was operating on a Skeleton Crew for the Shakedown cruise.
As another commentor noted, Starfleet thought Voyager was lost with all hands in the Badlands until the conclusion of Message in a Bottle when we find out that aboard the Prometheus that the Doctor Provided a Full Debrief on Voyager and it's activities in the Delta Quadrant. this initiates the Pathfinder Project.
Again Starfleet is known for sending Cadets and Junior Officers into the field on Training voyages, as part of a Shakedown cruise, and as Junior Officers, it is likely that Kim fresh out of the Academy was assigned as a Senior Officer because of his performance in SFA and that a Shakedown cruise is considered a milk run. Had Voyager not been sent to the Delta Quadrant, Janeway would have provided Starfleet with a field Performance Evaluation of Ensign Kim and he would have either been promoted to Lt. Jr. or been reassigned as a Junior Officer on another ship.
If Voyager is a Deep Space Exploration Ship, the permanent crew would have been composed of Officers that understood that they would not be returning to Federation territory for many years, Kim would not have been an ideal candidate for a Long-Term mission given his desire to stay close to home, made apparent when he violates SF rules and Regulations to find shortcuts.
The previous ships had been returned.
No reason to think Captain McMurder would go off on a crusade.
Starfleet had every reason to believe that voyager would be returned.
Counterpoint: sending _Voyager_ to the Badlands to get Tuvok and some terrorists makes perfect sense if after that, it's going to be stationed at DS9 to explore the other side of the Bajoran wormhole. If they're going there anyway, just have them do a police raid on the way.
I think most of us fans were really gratified when Barclay finally found Voyager after like 6 years. Voyager was closer to home than before and hope was reinforced. Luckily they didn't take the route toward the Gamma Quadrant!
If Starfleet had betrayed the Voyager, then they'll have to apologise to the Equinox too and Captain Ransom was bitter about it too.
Interesting you should say that..
@@LoreReloaded ??
@@shingoku999999
Why was equinox not returned to the alpha quadrant like all the other ships had been?
@@damenwhelan3236 The Equinox was destroyed, and her captain was deceased. As for her crew, they managed to save a few of them, and shortly after stripped them of rank for mutiny.
@@neptoniumblue k...
Why didn't the caretaker send them back.
Largest unresolved plot point: Chakotay was considered important enough for Starfleet to send an officer as a deep cover operative and when lost Voyager to recover both, meanwhile, the Cardassians, (using TH-cam spell-check) also considered Chakotay important enough to send one of their own, disguised as a Bajoran, to find Chakotay. This seems like a lot effort and resources to find one man AND NEVER GIVE ANY EXPLANATION AS FOR WHAT THAT REASON WAS!
The maki were a pain on the back of the cardassians as well as the federation. Of course both would try to take them down. ,
I presume Chakotay was simply a much naughtier boy during his time with the Maquis than we're ever told about.
@@Sirithil or just one of the most effective
Being how the show ultimately ended up, I would say bad writing is the most likely culprit.
Well, one could make the argument why Janeway and an Intrepid-class ship was send is: a) the new class shall get more tested under real-life conditions AND b) with it, the more non-combat focused Captains that flooded the ranks with the post Wolf359 rearmament program, get some actuall combat experence against a not serious thread like the Marquis, before they're send against a reall foe like this mysterious Dominion... and thats why you also keep back you best horses like a Sisko and Defiant.
wolf 359 was an inside job
Janeway had combat experience though, she fought the Cardassians and in one episode recalled a 3 day siege where her squad was cut off and was in a continuous fire fight.
Voyager was probably sent because they thought the marquee had somehow destroyed the equinox and wanted answers so they sent a more powerful updated ship that could handle the job not knowing that they were captured by the caretaker array
Voyager was more powerful, I doubt it was much newer.
@@DavidKnowles0 It had that new ship smell.
@@DavidKnowles0 - possibly older.
The Nova had that Sovereign vibe while the Intrepid was in that difficult transition period between Galaxy and Sovereign. The Intrepid still has the old Galaxy-style nacelles and escape pods.
Plus the TNG tech manual states that the Nova was initially slated as a much bigger ship to replace the Galaxy. Clearly after the Borg and Dominion were discovered those plans changed. The Nova from Voyager is pretty much an early Defiant design with a secondary deflector in place of pulse phasers.
This doesn't explain why they wouldn't just send someone else, like the Defiant.
@@FirebirdPrince - if they'd sent the Defiant it would've been a much shorter show. Defiant has even less amenities than the Nova and can't even fire phasers without having to swap out the emitters. It would've lasted about a month in the delta quadrant.
Interesting theory or... you know... just bad writing :P
This is Star Trek, so I'm inclined to the latter.
It is hard to believe they didn't know. as the region would have been in constant sensor surveillance. they would have seen other ships taken by the energy wave. Plus another ship was lost in the same way long before. They would have been able to track the direction of the wave. They new where to start looking. I am sure the Midus array was already under development before voyagers departure. The crew chosen wasn't the best of the best, otherwise expendable. As for Barkly. He was changed by alien technology. He was fundamentally changed and would have been able to use knowledge on at least on a subconscious level.
One of the books at the time said that Voyager's mission was going to be deep space exploration of the Gamma Quadrant, so them going to DS9 and detouring to retrieve a crewman before setting out makes some sense.
I have been toying with this idea for a while.
Janeway was a pet of Admiral Paris - a very senior starfleet admiral and probably had every confidence in her ability to carry out such a difficult mission and maybe sent his deadbeat son along with her hoping it would straighten him out. Voyager was one of the most state of the art ships in the fleet. A long range tactical vessel with impressive scientific and research facilities and like you said - incredibly fuel efficient and a long range. She had every chance starfleet could give her of being able to return from wherever she was sent. She could also land and carry out serious maintenance overhauls. I think they knew ships were disappearing in the badlands and knew if anyone could work out where they were going and who or whom was taking them it was Voyager. It was probably one of the very few ships in the fleet which would have the ability to carry out such a potentially hazardous mission in a way that even the Galaxy class cruisers probably wouldn't have been able to.
It makes sense. Send an expendable crew on a risky mission, but make sure if they disappear, they are on a ship that is designed to handle long term journeys with no outside aid.
For Star Fleet command it is a win-win. They find out what happened to the previous ships, while having their latest ship, Voyager, explore the unknown areas that Star Fleet could not otherwise reach.
This is likely why when Voyager returned, Janeway was promoted to Admiral. To keep an eye on her and pay her off. It is likely the rest of the crew of Voyager was paid off as well in someway for their silence.
To be fair, on their journey, Voyager created around as many messes as their solved.
didn't the caretaker say it had been scanning the entire galaxy and taking ships? if it had been doing this for a while and returning ship to their point of origin, then it is possible starfleet knew about the caretaker and had sensor reading of the displacement wave and detected the very same wave when the Val Jean disappeared.
and well if Voyager didn't make it back it was one small ship, a green captain and limited crew
When do they get a veteran crew?
Lemme guess, not until Tuesday.
All these posts and no one's brought up the Tri-Cobalt weapons? A WMD from 70 years earlier, a different Starfleet, a weapon that was only eclipsed by the Quantum Torpedo. A weapon that was _not_ part of a standard load out but by happenstance was pulled out of mothballs, refurbished and loaded up on a state of the art explorer with a green captain and crew.
Why? 🤔
Exactly !! Seven was right about the whole conspiracy but once she went off on a tangent in the second half of the episode all those facts were conveniently ignored
I suppose next you'll say that 31 was also responsible for Praxis exploding. (I'll take 10% of the ad revenue you get from THAT video.)
I'll give you credit when i do it ;P I feel like I already did that video though
i see it that way : Intrepid was brand new type of ship - in essence it was in it's shakedown period - so they gave janeway an easy mission - grab some terrorists (in a far inferior vessel in comaprison to Janeway's) thus stopping some Maqui terroris activities - and in the same time grab some of their personel for interrogation (to get more info as well) all the while giving the ship itself a rather mild trashing to see if it works properly - in that setup Janeways mission makes a lot of sense - on top of that keep in mind Tom's father was an admiral - so he might have quietly pushed the mission forward as well in order to get his kid out of prison and send him on the "clean slate" if he pulled throught the mission properly - sure it's a therory but if an admiral wanted to get his kid out of prison "properly" then that would be a good way to do it as it would check all the usuall federation check boxes (grab terrorists - check, check out new ship - check - good PR - check - and getting your no good son out of prison - check.
So giving the ship an easy mission first before sending it of on a REALLY long journey to check it ouf first under those conditionts makes a lot of sense.
Section 31?? what is that .....you ...should ....move ..on .....i would not want you to end up like .....ODO....now listen carefully ..................HOW MANY LIGHTS DO YOU SEE
Umm wasn't the Pathfinder project after the Doctor used the comm sats to deliver the crews message?
Project Pathfinder happens after Message in a Bottle. So I think you're missing something here.
I can't wait for Changeling Janeway to make an appearance in Picard next week. That will open up a whole new world of Lore Reloaded conspiracy theories!
Has anyone even thought to ask, is beverly ACTUALLY beverly?
@@Phoenixesper1 I asked that every episode since we saw her defending that ship.
I bet Starfleet knew something would happen to Voyager because they read the script for the TV show.
Just no. There is no evidence that Starfleet had any intelligence of the Caretaker or any such technology and the Caretaker took ships from all over the galaxy. There is nothing that indicates that the Badlands was the only hunting grounds for the Caretaker. We do not even know if the Equinox was taken from there.
Your argument about the Pathfinder Project is just sloppy. There is an entire episode about how the Doctor travels to the USS Prometheus to inform Starfleet about Voyagers location. From there, calculating where Voyager is not beyond Starfleets capacity.
As for why picking Voyager despite the inexperienced crew? Sometimes the best option is not available. They needed a ship that could handle a longer stay chasing after the Maquis in that general area and time was not really of the essence.
Harry Kim was Section 31 all the time.
I most respectfully disagreee with this conspiracy theory.
Frist: Starfleet sent unsuitable ships on unfitting missions for its class before. Remember it sent a Galaxy class ship on transport missions.
Second: Captain Janeway was the Captain of choice. She is a friend and the contact of Tuvok on his mission and he is her tactical officer. Starfleet has a benefit by using Janeway to find the marquis. As a former science officer she seems predestined to traverse the Badlands and find the Marquis ship.
Third: Starfleet knew the type of Marquis vessel. Though Runabouts could have been used, it poses the question what to do when the Raider was captured. Brig the crew and tow the Raider out of the Badlands by a Runabout seems unfitting. Adding the fact that Runabouts lack in its shielding capabilities. Voyager's more capable shielding, its manoeuvrability, vast facilities and technological enhancements made her more suitable for this mission than a Runabout.
Fourth: Catching the Marquis ship has been Voyager's first mission. The Enterprise-D's first mission was to check the facility Farpoint. These missions can be seen as "post-launching test missions" to get the fleas out of the machine. The point is first missions are not always glorious and fitting to the class.
But I appreciate your work!
if they wanted Tuvok obliterated along w/ Chakotay’s cell, yeah they’d send the Defiant
Do you read these, please I can't find it, *what did Shatner say about your life*, you said it during your xindi recap and its bugging the frell out of me.....👍👌👍🖖
Intrepid is unsuitable for Search and Rescue operations.......
It's a Long Range Multirole ship capable of fulfilling the entire range of Starfleet missions profiles with the best sensors in the fleet. And it is capable of landing on a planet.
Unsuitable for Search and Rescue my arse, you need to put more thought into these or ask someone else to do a proof read and fact check your scripts.
USAF veteran flight paramedic Aerospace medicine pre post Berlin wall collapse : The things I can an can't tell you would amaze you .
It would actually be rather ironic if by sheer coincidence every single section 31 operative died when voyager was pulled into the delta quadrant.
We know the first officer, Doctor and chief engineer died as well as a hand full of others, leaving only Janeway and Tuvok as the original senior staff, if you were doing a covert ops path finding mission and were a cell based ntelligebce network, you simply wouldn’t have the resources to send a dedicated S31 ship fully crewed with S31 operatives, you’d send a ship of the line with a handful of operatives embedded and at key positions to easily carry out the S31 missions.
You’d want the FM and Doctor positions at the very least as that makes things easy in a lot of ways and maybe 3-5 rank and file operatives for away missions.
the problem i have with this premise is the lack fire power. Voyager was decently armed but no where armed for a journey that long.
I can't recall, was the Pathfinder Project initiated once Voyager made contact with the Alpha Quadrant via the Hirogen network? Then they were able to pass along further information to Starfleet HQ via the Prometheus this way giving the Pathfinder Project even more of a localization of where Voyager is? I may be wrong, I haven't seen the series in over 20 years.
If they wanted to send someone to the Delta Quadrant, why didn't they just use the wormhole they discovered in TNG?
By sending your tech into an unknown zone you can’t reach you basically increase the oddds of your enemy knowing your tech and making counters rather you will gain
I think he makes intentionally bad theories just so that people comment about it
Not at all.. it’s a nice byproduct though
Short answer: No. No they obviously weren’t. Just friggin stop.
This is a sound theory of why Voyager was picked for the assignment. However, Janeway turned out to be more resourceful in the end, also got a lot of help from crew and Seven to get back to Earth. And they brought back a lot of technology including Borg enhanced ship armor plating.
I always thought the USS Hera & Geordi La Forge’s mother was taken by the Caretaker
It was right in front of us this entire time and I just never questioned it. It all makes way too much sense for the whole thing to not stink
I’ve often gotten stuck on why they sent voyager after Tuvok when the defiant or another closer ship to get him or find out what happened or even use intelligence assets within the maquis or even Cardassia to find out what happened to him. Seemed like over kill and too much time invested for such a mission
Defiant was on either a first contact mission to the Dominion, or an exploration mission in the Gamma Quadrant at the time, if memory serves.
It was a mission that required everyone except Quark. Even Odo was off on that mission.
Starfleet Command was not the problem, it was the writers!!!
Early in season 1,weren't they able to find a very small wormhole that led back to Romulan Space, in the past ?. i recall they they beamed him through the wormhole and he took messages back with him. It was reported that he had died a while ago ,but what about those messages?
If 31 got a hold of those messages ,they would have a list of who is supposed to be on Voyager and saw the potential .
Correct, Chris. ( 20 years romulan) .
Section 31 may have infiltrated the Tal Shiar before 2371, so they would have know about a Federation ship from the future called Voyager being trapped in the Delta Quadrant.
In this case it would be more DoTI than S31 that would be interested.
@@VestedUTuber How would the DoTI know unless someone working for both S31 and DoTI passed on the information to their DoTI colleagues? I imagine the DoTI would have a number of S31 operatives in it's ranks as a matter of course. Temporal matters would be of great concern to S31.
@@blitzerblazinoah6838
Other way around. S31 may be the "behind the scenes" covert ops and intelligence agency of the Federation, but they're still tied to their timeline. DoTI has jurisdiction over and beyond them for the purposes of maintaining the stability of the timeline, and likely has agents planted within S31. Plus they have means of monitoring the timeline itself, so they could easily have identified the initial crossover point afterwards and sent an agent over to that crossover point. Heck, the Romulan receiving the message could have been a DoTI agent in disguise. Or not even in disguise, but just from a point in time after the destruction of Romulus.
I have a few disagreements.
1) Sending Voyager to find the Maquis was probably more of a "political" decision rather than practical.
It shows both the Maquis and the Cardassians that Starfleet will spare no expense to stop the Maquis. Sending their newest ship would definitely send that message.
2) Trans-galactic communication is definitely a project Starfleet would have been studying for many years by the time of Voyager. So, the Pathfinder project isn't surprising. It was probably given much greater priority after Voyage made contact via the Promethious incident.
3) It's never stated where in the Alpha quadrant the Equinox was taken from.
4) Voyager is definitely an anti-borg ship. But Starfleet doesn't make "warships" (Liars)
So, having a "Science" captain instead of a "Command" captain is yet another political decision rather than a practical decision.
They didn't want a ship too good,so they sent a mid-level Exploratory Class Vessel
What if Voyager was sacrificed to destroy the caretaker array so that no other Federation ship gets scooped up? After all they did have just the right amount of tricobalt devices to X the array...in this scenario, even if the caretaker didn't die, Janeway would still find some other way to justify to her crew why they must destroy the array... Janeway was in on it, but after living and bonding with her new crew she eventually goes back in time to undue some of the damage Star fleet did to them... The end
The Equinox is one of my favorite ships in Star Trek.
I'm sure the Hirogines were innnitt tooo
Man, you come out with some crazy out of the box theories.
The Vulcan Science Directorate has determined:
You should just enjoy the show.
That’s why star fleet is experimenting with different drive systems to be able to go further in less time thanks to voyager they left bread crumbs behind the deeper in the delta quadrant they went and charted most the delta quadrant already so if star fleet decides to go to the delta quadrant on purpose they will know what areas to avoid Star fleet really didn’t want to risk sending another ship after them they would have probably gotten completely lost
Let us not forget (ALL) of Seven's Theories on this matter before Janeway reeled her back, which is worth reviewing & might give us more insight to this matter.
Send Insainway, she wont expect a thing.
Have you ever been with an actual woman?
Love this idea, the original commander, doctor or someone that died during voyager being taken could have been section 31 operative.
I always thought the only reason Janeway got a command in the first place is because of the looming Dominion war. Starfleet was expanding it's fleet and had to lower it's standards. Wouldn't surprise me if the entire Voyager crew were just the bottom of Starfleet's minimal acceptable standards and all shoved into one ship to absorb fire meant for a defiant class. Which is why it was picked to get whisked away to the Delta Quadrant. Voyage only really made it back because Janeway was a complete psychopath, which made her perfect Starfleet Admiral material.
Intrepid class vessels spent the whole war playing diplomatic and scouting roles because they were the fastest in the fleet and had the absolute best sensors before sovereign came out. Admiral Ross used one as his command ship. Also star fleet was terrified that one of the ships would fall into dominion hands so they kept them safe. The technology onboard was cutting edge so the crew were highly qualified, except Janeway obviously who got the command despite being a science officer and never holding command before because daddy was an Admiral. All these ships went to Admirals expect the one that went to an Admirals unqualified daughter. wink wink.
I really wish Paramount would make that "Legacy" series. We see all the cast from Voyager and DS9. Do the same as Picard did in Season 3. I would really love to see what happened to Tuvok after the changelings, Janeway being an admiral, Captain 7 of 9, and Ensign Kim where he would be by that point. (I assume still a Captain.) And of course DS9 cast. They have a huge chance there to pick up where the series left off.
This actually might be one of the reasons why they promoted Janeway when they returned instead of kicking her out of Starfleet for violating the Prime Directive.
No captain got kicked out for violating the prime directive
If I were captain breaking prime directive would be top priority 😄
CAPTAIN
JANEWAY........
EXCUSE ME ........
NOW
ADMIRAL JANEWAY........
DID THE VERY BEST SHE COULD,
AND THAT PROOFED TOO BE
MORE THAN
ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!
I WOULD HAVE
PROMPTED HER
TOO FLEET
ADRIMAL.....
BY THE WAY ...
Another possibility didn't consider is that if it was Section 31 who did it, it could be related to the Borg. They roughly know where the Borg is, and if they already know that The Caretaker would take them to the Delta Quadrant as a one-way trip, they can learn awful lot about their opponent, and use a ship that could survive the trip and the Borg to gain important intelligence to counter them.
Though of course as we all know it worked a little _too_ well, and they ended up _taking out_ most of the Borg.
At the time Voyager was shipped to the Badlands, the Dominion had already been infiltrating various Alpha/Beta Quadrant worlds with changelings. There were changelings on Earth. Who's to say that the Dominion didn't help orchestrate Equinox and Voyager (with plans to do the same to others) to reduce Federation resources in the inevitable war.
It is quite plausible that starfleet would do this. It is an easy way to find out what is on the other side of the galaxy.
As my pal kakarot197 would there's an in universe explanation and a real world explanation. In universe is well we could send Sisko to get the ship Tuvok is on and he might blow them up because it's Sisko shuttles were never his strong suit.
Then we have the real world explanation you send a brand new captain and the B team pretty much on a mission that makes almost no sense...you're saying Star Trek Voyager had bad writters 😲🤯 say it isn't so.
I'm not all that familiar with Voyager aside from a few episodes and the main cast, but Section 31 placing Voyager in such a position to be whisked away by the Caretaker does make some sense. One assumption I can think of is that they considered the Caretaker a threat and lured him into taking Voyager, bringing their "strikeforce" right to his doorstep. Though, in this case, they wouldn't send any of their own personnel because it wouldn't be prudent to send them that far away while there are more pressing issues in the "home" quadrants.
Another assumption is that Section 31's target was the Borg, and they used the Caretaker AND Voyager to deal with them. Trick the Caretaker into transporting them there, and Voyager will end up doing the rest, as was the case.
Section 31, may have been aware that the Voyager crew stopped Starling in the 1990's. The images of Voyager from back then could have been enhanced with A.I. They also may have obtained that from the Time cops. The tech Spock developed when he was trapped in the 1930's may have been retrieved by Section 31 and adapted with more modern tech in order to make use of it.
Tom Paris The convict who is an Admirals Son. Or Tom Paris the deep cover section 31 agent .Tom Paris is as capable as Bsshir...in universe...
Tom falsified some data...Picard etc hsve mutinied
I mean he invented warp 10 to shack up with his captain in evolution cosplay, he must be genius
@@DanielTsosie Well put sir
I Think the Intrepid Class USS Voyager was Created officially for Exploration However Unofficially the Class of Ship was Created to Fight the Borg, I Heard that Many Classes of Ships were Created after the Battle of Sector 001 When the Enterprise D Almost Barley Destroyed the Borg Cube Through Locutus and with the Help of Data, So Starfleet Created Classes of Ships to Fight the Borg and the Intrepid Class Maybe One of them.
interesting take. While I'd probably go with Starfleet heads being utter numpties, I could well imaging some section 31 shenanigans now that they've made it obligatory that section 31 has to be mentioned or hinted at in some capacity at least once in each new trek episode and thus totally strip it of its secrecy.
I think actually a lot of it was a good idea sending Voyager to the Badlands
1. Janeway was a good pick in my opinion for Captain because she was a scientist first and during a time when Starfleet was building more heavily armed ships like The Prometheus, Ambassador Class, and Defiant it Voyager was a ship designed for more scientific and explorative purposes
2. Tom Paris was perfect for helmsman because you have a starship capable of operating inside the atmosphere of a planet and going into a very tricky region of space so it would help to have a good pilot. Also he’s a convict and his father is an admiral the idea is he gets sent on this easy mission of going after a Maquis ship where they have a man on the inside.
3. The Maquis did have sympathizers in the federation. It does make sense to pull the crew from a bit further away hoping to get people that weren’t working with the Maquis.
Doubtful... What'd be something is seeing just how SFC .. woulda been able to do ANYTHING to stop it .. remember Lore an all, the Caretaker told them ITSELF it brought them there. The Marquis too... Remember this at the time is their best crew crewing the SF's BEST an most advanced ship at the time. They didn't know if Voyager was alive an in one piece or if they'd died somehow. Imagine their surprise at how well they ALSO did. Returning NOT JUST with vast majority of they original crew BUT said original mission target... Many of THEM, WAS ALSO successfully integrated into the crew. Some in key positions.. not to mention the luck the critical slots needed just happened to be on Voyager while the Maquis personnel just happened to be REALLY OVER qualified for each role an turned out to be naturals at it. AN on hearing the whole show as we know it... "Oh an we found what was left of the Equinox crew.. they left all is combined crew mostly to die but we over that ... Working through some an the handful of survivors we saved are all good now..." They DID want a good Captain. It jus turned out to be Janeway. Janeway an crew got EXCEPTIONALLY lucky is all. Remember it's ALSO a late series arc they realized was gonna be probably said anyways.. that SF eventually lost hope of EVER so much as hearing about or from them again... You DONT send one of your best ships after just one mere terrorist ship. Deliberately, to lose it like THAT, it's a wonder any them made it at all. An if you analyze the WHILE Voyager Series... It's odd like that AF an technically they DIDN'T... When you talk about an consider mirror verse type, time travel/altering episodes an like
Admiral Janeway proved herself the best captain of them all; after being in deemed 'acceptable loss'. Got ship & crew home against all odds w/no shipyards or support, defeating powerful know/borg & unknown species 8472 adversaries .. Without doubt she is the 'smartnest; an actual scientist/warrior...
Listen up, Starfleet is no longer a starfleet used to be before. I am going against the STARFLEET and SEND them back to their , NO, our origin INTENT! TO HELL WITH OUR ORDER. Agree one step forward and AGAINST 2 steps behind! I am Commander HELLILOW🤣😂🤣
Yep, I always thought that it was rather convenient that the one ship actually capable of the sustained high warp required to actually ever get back is the one taken. There's also the episode that Seven goes down a conspiracy theory rabbit hole, where she points out there's no logical reason Voyager would be carrying the tricobalt explosives used to destroy the Caretaker Array. She may have been on to something.
1:35 "Adequately prepared".
40-50 torpedoes (I'm not sure how many shots Voyager expended unseen while Janeway & Tuvok were on the array)
2 medical staff for an estimated crew of 150-160.
No counselor to evaluate this newly assembled crew... and it was new.
I get the impression the first officer, chief medical officer, chief engineer & helm officer & operations officer were all new to this captain... and probably to each other.
Tuvok was Captain Janeway's only apparent holdover. The surviving crew (Rollins, Carey, Hogan, Vorik) apparently learned nothing / had no attachment to the officers lost in Caretaker... those officer's names are never mentioned, not even once, again.
The ship's supply situation reeks of 2-week shakedown cruise.
People have already mentioned the Doctor being sent to Prometheus in Season 4, as the reason for Project Pathfinder. There's also another possibility that would have been just a rumour to Starfleet before... there's an episode in either Season 1 or 2, where Voyager contacts a Romulan vessel by using a dying, unstable wormhole... but the signal is bouncing back and forth through time, and the Romulan was in the past, by many years. He promised to send a message when "the time was right". We don't know if he managed to arrange it before he died. Even if that message got delivered, would Starfleet take it seriously at this point? It's before the Dominion War when they'd have received a message from an untrusted source that sounds completely bonkers.
Then the Doctor gets transported... so if the message was received before, this would have confirmed it. Either way: no, I don't think they threw Voyager to the dogs as you're suggesting. This was Voyagers shakedown cruise. A simple "nab and grab" police action in a section of space, after a few weeks worth of a trip to get to it, is more than correct for a first voyage. They'd have either been sent off from DS9 for their "real first mission" into deep space, or returned to Sol for any updates if any issues were revealed in the shakedown.
My biggest problem with Voyager is the lack of scientists on a vessel of exploration. Most personnel should be wearing blue, not gold or red. Command red would be the smallest % of personnel on the ship. Harry should be in red, or blue, because navigation and operation are typically not associated with engineering or security. 20% of a crew are officers, 80% enlisted, so where are all of the enlisted people?
Voyager is truer to TOS than "Diplomacy Mission Enterpise-D" in TNG, or "Cruise Ship Enterprise-D" in TNG.
Interesting points. Possible. But not plausible. A few gaping holes in this theory. 1. Voyager didn't have its second warp drive, Aero Shuttle or other systems installed. 2. Additional provisions would have been held (fuel, gel packs, medical supplies, etc) 3. A proper communication system would have been installed. 4. Voyager would have been kitted out with more sensors, shields and weapons than a dozen Defiants. 5. You would send more experienced and specialized personnel. Janeway was too green. So was Kim. Additionally, "Message in a Bottle" dispels the point of how Starfleet knew they were in the Delta Quadrant.
Its an inside job to gather more intel on the Borg in the Delta Quadrant. Raven and Equinox were both scout/vanguard for this. With Equinox they found the shortcut because of the Caretaker. Voyager subsequentky was designed/modified for going to the Delta Qudrant right off the bat. I think Admiral Patterson knew. He recruited Janeway without her knowing. The Badlands mission was just a cover. I will go so far to think even USS Prometheus was meant to go into the Delta Quadrant, after having no contact with Voyager. But those pesky Romulans messed that up
Re; Janeway as captain. You've probably never been in the military..which is fine but if you had you'd have instantly recognized that Janeway has a
"Rabi". This a a slang term for someone with pull that's taken an interest in you and your career and proves the whole
( it's not what you know but WHO you know). Then there's the good ol habit of advancement for officers-people who've taken certain classes over FAR more qualified people who hold their superior upon their shoulders and often run along the razors edge of manipulating, "advising ",ignoring, actually being in control but not command with the newbie officer's ego and need to succeed. Done well everyone's better off for it. Yeah or I'm completely wrong and don't know what I'm talking about. It's probably one of those. Thank you for the upload. Great as per usual.
Semper Fidelis
I disagree. Recall that at this point, Wolf 359 had left an embarrassing and indelible scar on Starfleet. Now, I think, and emphasize think, the Intrepid class was in development ether before, or just after Wolf 359, but originally it wasn't a designed born of the Borg invasion, it just profited off of it. On top of that, The Dominion were a major threat at this time, putting more pressure on Starfleet planners. This meant that more ships, which need more people. Look at how the majority of these ships are small vessels with small crews. In fact, in DS9: In the Pale Moonlight, the Romulan senator even mentions their manpower shortage (during the war, but it had to start somewhere). Starfleet possibly built over 5,000 new ships during this time, recommissioned probably another 3-5,000, and retrofit as many old vessels as they could; all of which need new staff. That means some ships are going to get your Picard's and Rikers (The Enterprise E comes to mind) but it also means that greener CO's and crews are going to be placed into positions they normally wouldn't have. It is possible that Starfleet wondered about the Equinox and the Maqui Raider, their sensors probably picked up the odd readout from the Cartaker's wave, but this would have made sending in Voyager more logical than Defiant. Defiant was needed at DS9, also the ship wasn't heavily trusted and wasn't designed for exploration. It isn't at DS9 when the Voyager launches. Its also possible that the Defiant was sent to look for the crew initially, they found traces of the Cartakers wave, but couldn't Identify it. So they sent in a ship with state of the art features to follow up...Voyager. As far as Pathfinder, I think that was an observatory project they had started prior and unrelated that was used to contact Voyager after VOY: Ship in a Bottle.
Now, I will admit there is one thing supporting your argument. It is possible that the Cartaker's wave could have been identified as something from an artificial source. So they probably assumed that whatever caused it, there was an intelligence behind it, and by sending Voyager, with Janeway who is a scientist, probably could figure out how to use it. Such a tech would have been useful to Starfleet could it be used more safely. It almost worked out too.
But I think Voyager wasn't an inside job, or a conspiracy. It was an example of the problem with post Wolf 359 staffing issues.
Ummm… someone forgot to watch VOY season 4 ep.14 “Message in a bottle” - EMH sent to alpha quadrant to tell starfleet what happened….
But brings up a good question regarding Uss Equinox: what was that puny Nova class doing in the badlands? What was their original mission - that was never fully explained.
BETRAYED and TRAPPED in the TIME CHAM-
No, wait, wrong topic...
@Lore,
According to the DTI novels, Starfleet did know about Voyager being stuck in the Delta Quadrant and wanted them to follow through, because without this event, according to 31st Century Starfleet, there was no possible future timeline where the Federation or any civilization other tan the Borg Collective would exist by 26th century. Essentially, this was their Dr. Strange type damage analysis, send Voyager into the Delta Quadrant, where they will do what they would and eventually get tech and/or kill the Borg in the final outcome. I like that explanation.
5.53 -6.01 ,you are incorrect as Project Pathfinder only start after Voyager EMH Doctor revealed to Starfleet that the USS Voyager still exict ,because before that the ship listed as missing / gone ,,
Starfleet Command Are morons, so that's out.
Intelligence has Next to nothing to do with that (I would actually look at SF's Department of Temporal Investigations, if you're going that route.)
Section 31 makes the most sense: the Romulans had not only the knowledge, but also a (mostly complete!) crew list (thanks to that Romulan scientist from 50 years ago) And Section 31 even had the head of the Tal Shiar as one of their informants.
All Section 31 had to do was put together the crew list and find a way to give it without SFC's incompetence screwing it up.
When Voyager was launched, the Defiant wasn't out of mothballs. As seem in "message in a bottle" Voyager had no knowledge of the Dominion. The Defiant was redeployed after the Dominion had made overt acts against Starfleet in DS9's Season 3 episode 1.
To your point a runabout could had captured them, runabouts have been shown to not have powerful enough engines to maneuver properly in the ion storms.
1: Voyager was equipped with new tech that made navigating the badlands easier.
2: While the runabouts might be able to handle the Val Jean in combat Voyager was better equipped for a fight. Plus neither the Defiant nor the runabouts were equipped with the bio neural tech that made it safer and easier for Voyager to navigate the Badlands.
3: Voyager was an exploration ship, and DS9 made a perfect staging area for exploration missions into the Gamma Quadrant. They pick up Tuvok, seize or destroy the Val Jean then resupply, make any needed repairs, and launch on an exploration mission.
4: Paris was only on board because his knowledge of Maquis hiding spots was useful to the hunt for the Val Jean. He wasn't a member of the crew until the original helmsman was killed during the transition to the Delta Quadrant.
5: As many other people have mentioned why are you ignoring the fact that Project Pathfinder knew where Voyager was because the Doctor briefly returned to the Alpha Qy=uadrant and told them where Voyager was?
Theory: Future Admiral Janeway conspired with Agent Daniels of the 31st Century Starfleet's Temporal Integrity Commission to alter the timeline to allow Voyager to be sent to the Delta Quadrant in order to destroy the Borg transwarp conduits, Unimatrix 0 and the Borg Queen. But since the Queen is in control of the collective, she simply changed bodies before her current vessel was destroyed by the Admiral's neurolytic pathogens [hence the queen's return in Picard]. Voyager's selection for the Maquis mission was due to it's state of the art scientific sensors and capabilities which would have allowed it to better navigate the badlands and later the Delta Quadrant.