Remove the large parking lot, create a parking lot on the mainland. Add a train, monorail, ferry, skyway SOMETHING OTHER THAN A CAR to get from the mainland to the park
It would work, but at the same time it wouldn't. If they wanted to buy land on the mainland to build a parking lot, they would almost have to do it on the right side entrence, creating more problems for the residents that live on the road. The left entrence to the park is situated pretty much is downtown Sandusky and there's really no room to build a parking lot on that side.
I think they have more problems like overselling fast lane, bad traffic flow in/out of the park, lack of shade, lack of sufficient staffing, a barebones maintenance team that hasn't been able to keep up with the amount of rides they have post-COVID, constantly closed food locations, disgusting bathrooms, unreliable rides, no activities to do in bad weather, overpriced and outdated lodging, ops continuously getting slower since COVID, the TTD lawsuit, pushing several employee assaults under the rug, having their police force disbanded due to withholding information from the public, spending millions on investments like Forbidden Frontier and Snake River Expedition only to close them in a couple seasons...etc.
The attraction removals you mentioned weren't removed to make new coasters. They were removed because they were removed because they were no longer cost effective.
And why did they remove some slow family rides in the name of progress? Do coasters make them more money by drawing hordes of teens and young people who can brave extreme coasters? At least they still have the sky ride, steam train, and Cadillac Cars.
@@robkrasinski6217umm coasters are cooler/better. Sounds like you’re a boomer. Those slow rides you mentioned had extremely low ridership a makes sense to remove them.
I have said this before, I'll say it again.... SPACE, is Not An Issue for CP... Just by walking IN, you'll see a giant space just dying for a new attraction... IF you look behind the Americana theatre/French Quarter just before Raptor, you will see the old space called , "Point Plaza", which was where they used to do "reserved spaces/tables", for schools, reunions, etc .. That space is BIG, and has been closed/non-operatiinal for years .. There are at least 4-5 other areas like it in the park,.. and that's even Before, you get into taking out old stuff, or moving things around, and the closure of Forbidden Frontier and the western boat ride., etc... space is not an issue for CP
I’ll be straight: Cedar Point is one of the dumbest designed parks I’ve ever seen. It’s over a mile long, and a space is only an issue because they made an issue. Look at what Hersheypark did with superDooperlooper, great bear, skyRush, the comet…They’re all interwoven. Heck, skyrush is almost entirely on the water. There’s SO MUCH land there, so much WASTED space between and on top of existing attractions, they’re just not willing to be creative with it.
I’d argue the parking lot is the best option, but instead of garage (which might have issues due to sandy soil anyway), that CP builds the main lot on mainland and shuttles day guests to the entrance over the causeway (tram/bus/monorail). Limit parking on the peninsula to hotel guests and a VIPs perks for season passes, Fast Lane, etc.
I was barney and raised Northeast Ohio. Sometime ago there was thought that they would illuminate all parking on the peninsula, move it to the other side and install on monorail or some other sort of people mover to transport guests to from the parking lots. I personally think this would be the best option. There’s a lot of land, on the other side, it’s no longer being used and old factories no longer being used
I feel like you’re trying to create an issue that CP doesn’t think it has. A lot of their major coasters could be considered standouts and are world class rides, record breakers, etc. We live in a unique time where we don’t exactly know the longevity of large coasters but we do know that a majority of the rides at CP are B&M. Hulk proved to us that you can retrack certain areas and the ride run butter smooth. So it could be worth it to keep Raptor, Gate Keeper, Valravn and all them going into the future. That being said, if you add more land or space, then are they supposed to keep the old rides that no one goes on? Or do you expect them to add new rides to the new space and remove the less popular rides? That’s a dangerous money pit. Once a ride becomes unpopular, remove it to add something different. It’s the best way to do it. Plus the park is already a bear to walk around and wait in lines so adding more space for rides seems like a negative addition. Just my opinion, but I don’t think CP wants to expand their land for any reason. They have the greatest lineup on the planet, the rides are maintainable and serviceable and are well liked, they remove the rides that aren’t well liked and replace with new, the park is big enough as it is, no need to add more excessive walking and waiting.
I'll give you one good reason --- wind. The area gets a lot of wind on a lot of days strong enough to shut down a gondola ropeway system like Disney has in FL. Disney has a fleet of busses and staff to drive the busses to replace to Skyliner system service when it is not / cannot run due to weather. Cedar Point does not have the bus fleet or drivers to shuttle customers on / off point to a remote parking area. A monorail [which could be more reliable and efficient] is incredibly expensive to build.
a second park isn't the craziest idea. pair that with moving the camping off site and changing up the marina, you could do a lot. they would need bus service for sure
What they need to do away with is the stupid outdoor stage near where the giant screen used to be since it can't be used during inclement weather. HalloWeekends they had all sorts of shows scheduled there and couldn't do them because of rain. It barely gets used during summer. Go back to having shows in the theaters and "saloons" and put a roller coaster there. They could expand that all the way to the road.
You mean near the main station for the steam train? There was a big screen there in June 1995 when I visited for the first and only time. I rode some slow rides that are now retired, like Turnpike and Antique Cars and Pirate Ride.
It's funny how when one mentions a problem and starts describing it, thoughts instantly come to mind you never imagined before. When you mentioned the main parking lot at 3:25, I was anxiously awaiting you to suggest ...a parking garage!!! Such an obvious solution I never thought of before. I actually wish they would do it, just for logistics. While I think it would require a decent amount of personnel to facilitate parking at beginning of the day and exiting in the evening, they've already got loads of staff triaging that. But, the biggest benefit of a parking garage will be for families with older people. They potentially wouldn't have a quarter of a mile to walk to get into the park. It does makes me wonder, now, why they haven't done this yet. I understand building a massive parking garage is costly...but so is building a 400ft high roller coaster. Perhaps, though, CP doesn't project that they could fill the park if it was 1/4 bigger, even if that extra space was mostly rides. The economics of a park that can only be utilized for 5 months of a year might be the controlling statistic, here. If CP was in Florida or Georgia, there would probably have been a parking garage decades ago.
Yes, I think it would be such a huge benefit to the park! There's plenty of reasons that I could guess why they don't do it. And maybe one day I'll have the time to think through solutions to every one of them. But for now, it's just fun to play with the idea. Thanks for watching!
Water is too skinny and protected behind CPSF park. Unless you use canoes! Water is shallow enough that a gondola setup could go across but getting environmental approvals and land use approvals would be impossible but really cool.
This is a great topic I'm going to add to our video idea list. There's a lot to unpack here. Ultimately, I think a lot of it is more complicated than they don't have good ideas. I think a lot of their decisions get boiled in a cauldron of politics and bureaucracy,. It's not that they couldn't do many of these things, it's that their primary responsibility is to see growth for the shareholders, and often the kind of returns shareholders want are short-sighted. Shareholders want quarterly growth. Where decisions like my proposals would lock down the company for multiple years, shareholders wouldn't see a return on investment for that entire time and then some. Pair that with the fact that their free cash must be divided up amongst all their properties and they are going to be acquiring Six Flags' $2.3bn in debt, it's a recipe for odd decisions for the forseeable future.
I think that a carnival pier extending out from the new pavilion would be a good idea too. Install a small Gerstlaur and a couple of flat rides and some jersey shore style food stands.
The more I think about the idea, the more I like it. It feels to me like a good way to tribute the park's history as a beach. There still is a beach but it isn't treated like a focal point anymore. I think having a pier would be a cool way to bring focus back to the water.
Just use trains and move the parking lots. Americans try not to use public transport challenge (I am American… clearly) The reason parks don’t use parking garages is because they are bottlenecks extremely easily.
They have plenty of space. IF you think creatively. And spend the money.... Or if they just bit the bullet and spent money on a parking garage. Could halve the parking lot. Campground too. Weird water park, get rid of that too.
A note about the marina: keep in mind that the marina isn't there necessarily to be an attraction for people wishing to visit the park by boat. It's largely a "side hustle" taking advantage of the shoreline and location to rent slots to locals. I would imagine, based on the cost of renting a boat slip, the fact that they already own the land, have the infrastructure, are in a high demand area, minimal staffing is required and they already have the means to access that staffing at a subsidized rate, I'd imagine it might be the most profitable division of the property by percentage.
I have been telling my family and friends for years that in my option Cedar Point should build a resort like breakers with a beach on nearby Johnson’s island or Marblehead and use the docks to provide a ferry shuttle between the resort and cedar point. And in recent years I thought a skyliner from castawaybay and Express hotel area to the park would be great! Cedar Point could really make a great destination if they made it more of a full immersive experience with park and resort. But I also love your pirates area idea.
And WT took the place of a aquarium which was razed after the 2001 season. CP is a business, and it makes business decisions based on what is profitable or not, and what rides work and what rides have maintenance issues or parts are hard to get because manufacturers went out of business or stopped supporting the type of ride. Maybe WT had issues and they made a business decision to remove it. But, there's no getting the aquarium back.
That was well put together. I think the campground one would work the best. Also, I wasn't aware of the Village Shoppes in Gatlinburg until your vid. Definitely want to check them out now!
There are several issues with idea of the moving the campground off the peninsula to the land behind the Sports Force park: 1) Moving it to the land behind the Sports Force park (the remainder of one of the old Griffon airport runways) would actually put the campground further away from Cedar Point than a nice and large KOA campground right down the road on US 6 (Cleveland Rd) just inside the Sandusky city limits. Cedar Point would no longer be able to command the premium prices Cedar Point charges for their campground sites. 2) Also, who would want to camp at a place with tons of baseball tournaments going on just about a football field away many weekends? (The target audience that Cedar Point is looking for most likely would not be interested in that and would just save some money and go to the KOA right down the road closer to the park and have a lot less noise and traffic.) 3) While I love the idea of a ferry / boat service from that spot to the park, it is totally not economically or logistically feasible. All of the water in that bay area off the old airport runway behind the Sports Force Park is very shallow (mostly 3-4 feet or less with tons of sea weeds) and not deep enough to run a boat, let alone a ferry. [There is a reason you never see any boats back there close to that land.] Cedar Point would have to pay a LOT of money (and get the proper EPA approvals) to dredge and constantly maintain a quite long navigation channel across most of the bay to connect to the existing boat navigation channel for the marina and condos on Pipe Creek up to the taller bridge on the Cedar Point Causeway (Cedar Point Drive). It would be a heck of a lot cheaper to run some busses / shuttles.
@jjohnsontl7973 Actually you just have to know something about business and look at what they have done. Hint, if they were actually concerned about space like silly thoosies, they wouldn't have used the land as they have. They bull dozed the Sandcastles hotel and Breakwater Cafe in 2017 and they used the spot for cabins. If they were really concerned about space they would have left it open, they could have later easily ran a major coaster to that spot starting in the park and had that as a turnaround, kind of like they do with Magnum. The same logic with taking out the Antique cars. Thoosies made dozens of videos of a new coaster in Frontier town, they built The Farmhouse restaurant. You had the same thing when they took out Witches wheel and the dorms. Space not used for coasters. CP is not concerned, they will take out an old coaster when they want coaster and/or use current spots. CP has no concern, it's just thoosies that think they are concerned about pure coaster count, CP isn't.
@@grobble8954 I find this part of the conversation fascinating. It's been clear for a while that Cedar Fair hasn't been trying to be the #1 coaster park in the US anymore. However, that said, I don't think not being the #1 coaster park has to mean giving up on the concept of expansion, or that space is not still an issue. Instead of working hard to do more coasters, you've witnessed, and pointed out, a shift to combine already strong lineup of coasters with an expanding set of options for less thrill-seeking people. To be fair, I'm not a coaster enthusiast. I actually don't go to the park, or any amusement park, with the intention to ride a bunch of coasters. I like having places to just hang around and relax. Which seems in line with the direction I think Cedar Point is heading. Which is why, in each of my suggestions, the new spaces were used to propose a new area with specific theming and concepts, and a new coaster is only a portion of that. I think there's opportunity to both bolster their coaster roster while also improving the overall feel of the park, with the intention of attracting both coaster-lovers and those who aren't. If you stick around for future videos, I think you'll find that the majority of the videos we want to make are not centered around coasters.
I'll tell you what they need-a way to easily access the park without a car AND a parking garage in which the top level still has a roof which rides could be placed on (due to the structure, it could be used as terrain to support something akin to Ghostrider's midcourse drop, and also contain some ovservation style flat rides. Maybe relocate all of Camp Snoopy to up there and redo that current area to have big thrill rides).
Some decent ideas, but a lot of your ideas are geared towards a theme park. Cedar Point is an Amusement Park. They even have said multiple times that they are only an amusement park. They tried theming with disaster transport and said never again. Other than that, some valid points.
This is a fascinating topic and the first I've seen someone bring it up on the channel. But I'm now adding this to my ever growing list of video topics. I personally feel the line between amusement park and theme park is rather arbitrary. Additionally, The new Six Flags makes it the 3rd largest company in the industry, and the two above it both run theme parks. If Six Flags wants to aim upward, which is always the goal of a publicly traded company, they need to start taking notes from the parks of those larger competitors. To be clear, that doesn't mean "Just do everything Disney does" but it does mean seriously consider the things Disney is doing and how you can model their behavior to fit within the identity of your park.
What about Land Reclamation? They should push the campground out into the lake, then take the old campground area for more park space… I really like the second park idea! 👏 It would make Cedar point even more of a destination park! 🤘
On the surface it seems simple, but the major issue with this is that the lake is very shallow, and there's a specific channel around the top of the peninsula that has been deepened specifically for ships to be able to pass through. If Cedar Point were to add land, it would remove the ability for any ships that go more than 7-8ft below sea level to pass through the bay. Yes! The entire point behind a whole series of videos I want to do are basically a "how to" in my mind we could take Cedar Point from a weekend trip for coaster lovers and really make it a destination on a larger scale, both for coaster lovers and others alike. I think there's so much untapped potential. Thanks for watching!
Us gen X folks used to imagine a Coaster going into the water, but now that we are adulting none of these ideas are going to fly because the cost is too great! I'll keep watching to see what they continue to do!!!
When Cedar Point first started with its ORIGINAL road, (not the current chausse rd... the road that existed before the present day Chausee road alignment) it was a peninsula. A large portion (about a mile portion) of the land that was narrowest point and the original road got wiped out and obliterated by the lake in very bad winter storms that cut off the end of the peninsula connecting closer to the mainland near present day Sawmill Creek's golf course. This necessitated the building of the present-day alignment of what people call the old road (the Chausee) to the mainland with a small bridge that technically surrounds the remainder of the peninsula by water on all sides. So today it technically is an island.
@@ntwadumela1777 When my oldest daughter was 7 I took her and the family to Ohio. The 7 year old rode Cork Screw over and over while her mom stood in line for the broken Top Thrill Dragster. Cork Screw might still have it's niche, it just doesn't have riders based on my last trips.
Personally, I love iron dragon! The swimming coaster is my favorite kind of coaster and there's so few of them left! Corkscrew definitely needs some attention but I think a rehab would be better than a removal personally.
I don’t know if i agree I think Cedar point can still fit new rides with being creative and going around current rides despite the lack of space but they are definitely getting landlocked non the less, expanding the park would definitely benefit long term. This is also why i think Disney should buy Cedar point from the new Six flags chain unpopular opinion but its because i think they can fix a lot of these issues that you mentioned and i think they can do a lot of cool things with the park as well as turning it more as a resort like you mentioned.
This video is definitely a long-term analysis. I think there are definitely spaces they could still use creatively inside the park (cue my next video). But in the very long term, maximizing space is something so many parks have to do, and cedar point is really nearing that point. I don't think Disney should buy it because I think six flags actually has all the necessary tools and skills to do these things themselves, I just want to see them actually do it. My ideal world is one where there's more competition for the Disney's and universals of the world. Right now, six flags is the closest we have to that.
@@cedarpointless Gotcha you’re right regardless Cedar point is definitely going to run out of space eventually. I’ll be looking forward to your ideas! I got an idea where such as the Cp dorms plot, behind Millenium Forces station for a coaster station. Possibly Rougarou plot of land Millennium island. North of Corkscrew, or in the middle of Steel Vengeance for like a water ride type of attraction there and the left side of Blue Streak. Maybe Geminis plot too. I think the park should try and renovate alot of there current rather than remove them because of the history. I think they i think thats where they could add new coasters or rides from the looks of it but I’m interested to hear what you think! Thats mainly why people don’t want Disney to buy it. All though I actually think Disney needs to start looking at getting more parks or resorts because of the growing competition. Ill admit it I’m actually a Disney parks fan and im also a Cedar point fan so thought the idea would be the best of both worlds but idk maybe it doesn’t really fit after all. You got a point though the theme parks side of things does need more competition.
I think the core assertion of this discussion is wrong and I think when people make the claim that the park is running out of space they aren't considering the parks history and proven method of doing things. It's like people think that the park has never considered their space situation and is just blindly building things and that only the brilliant ideas of someone with no practical experience in the industry can save them. Like, I get it, you're just having fun, but this is a persistent conversation people have that just does not need to be had. They aren't running out of space. They aren't going to run out of space. When they want to build something new they will either use some of the actually kind of large unused space on the peninsula, or they will take something out. They've been doing this for decades now and I don't see why they would change that strategy when it objectively has worked. I suppose one day if they reach a point where they have the entire land mass filled with things that cannot be removed it could be a problem, but that day will never come. It's only a matter of time before nobody cares if magnum gets torn down, or heck even their newest big coaster, SV, will reach the end of its life in time. Most coasters don't last 100 years and as much as it can hurt to see beloved rides torn down, it's just the way it goes and after the initial shock life goes on. I can think of several rides and areas of the park right now that could be removed and most people simply wouldn't care. Like if they took out the cabins I really don't think the average visitor would miss them, it's hard to even see them on a normal visit to the park. There can only be so much room for sentimentality in a park like cedar point, much more important for them is changing, keeping pace and staying new and exciting. I was really sad when disaster transport was taken down, and I know a lot of people were sad about wicked twister, but that area of the park now is so much better for those changes. In 40 years the boardwalk might suck, so they'll tear it down.
If you pay attention in the video, the core assertion is that if the park wants to grow (to maintain their position as a top park), they need to expand, for which they'll need more space. By expand, I don't just mean change, I mean actually grow to attract new people, more often, for longer periods of time. For that, they will need more rides, both coasters and not, more things to do, more places to park, more places to stay, etc. It will need to be a physically larger park. To do that, the core assertion is correct that they will need to find creative ways to make space for all that. Whether or not replacing old coasters is involved in their change isn't really the focus of this discussion. Glad to hear you have differing thoughts, though! I'll gladly welcome any constructive additions to the conversation, even if they are different from my own! And obviously, as you have said, I'm just an outsider looking in. I don't have the information that they have. Maybe if I did, I'd come to the same decisions they do!
@@cedarpointless Ok, why though? Why do they need to expand physically to maintain their place at the top when for the last 30 years they have just changed things and done just fine? Why is this their "#1 problem" all of the sudden? I really think this is just some weird enthusiast thing that happens when they look at the map and see the whole of the land is being used. I highly doubt this is a serious concern for anyone with the actual power to do something about it. Especially since they own most of the local, and now most of the national competition. I think they'll be ok.
Great ideas, I think top thrill is not needed and is just a ride for daredevils. Without top thrill, they have a pretty large area to build rides or a family coaster
That coaster is only for the very brave, or those training at NASA to become astronauts. It probably attracts teens and young people who can stomach it.
They could also get creative like parks like gröna lund having things built on top of each other haha. But a 2nd park is definitely needed if they can ever swing it. Its usually too crowded to enjoy unless you dont care about hitting everything. I also wonder if parking could be on mainland ohio and monorail type transit is the primary way to the park when you dont stay on site.
These ideas are interesting, and I do love how you made it clear that these were just some ideas you had. And I did see a comment talking about building the parking lot on the main land and then shuttle to cedar point which I feel could work cause dollywood in a way does that, and then you keep some parking on the peninsula for vip or preferred parking. Great video tho
Regarding the marina...don't touch it! All but one pier in the marina are for permanent dock holders. Every single parking spot in the marina lot is needed to accommodate dock holder vehicles. The marina lot fills quickly, especially during July 4th, holiday weekends and Halloweekends. A gate key is now needed to enter the lot which keeps most employees from entering. Removing the parking lot and having dock holders shuttle from the main lot to their piers would spell disaster as people bring food, boat supplies, children, linens and other necessities. It would also create even more of capacity issue in the main lot. Unless they remove the marina all together, all of those marina parking spots will have to stay. On a side note, the walk from the Gatekeeper/Marina gate to Famous Dave's takes less than a minute. The walk to Bay Harbor may take a couple of minutes. Famous Dave's is used mostly by park guests anyway.
I like your essay! No progress until the current situation dissolves away. No added new entertainment venues until we can get back to square one from years ago. Why build someone else's business? Sorry. If the area was so morbid to stay, keep them gone to their planning mecca. How can you grasp the flavor of any venue without frequent contact. That was the problem currently with Cedar Fair's holdings. Wake-up! At the same time I wish them good luck, I also wish them gone. I kept waiting for the move since some already were gone. Definitely, "Put a period and move on."
I see 2 options #1 They can do what they already do in one of their properties and have shuttle ride to another location as they do in Texas location..All day long shuttles are transporting guests from gate to gate at cedar fairs Schlitterbahn new braunfels. Or #2..Built a boardwalk over the water like pleasure pier Galveston Tx..
its a good vid , but the #1 problem isn't space , its the location , the fact that there only able to be open for 130 days a year, they already maximized their income with hotels/resorts etc, investing millions to create more space an spend more on rides is not going to do anything for their attendance numbers. its still their flagship park , but creating more space , more rides is not going to help them grow , its gonna hurt them in the long run. one ride out one ride in is the correct call , they should invest some money in making the park look better but thats it, improve guest experience etc. Cedar fair will maintain cedar points status as one of the best coaster parks in the world , but nothing more then that, their focus should be on making kings island a destination theme park , and making it their new flagship destination park, they already got the attendance numbers and the park in place but adding resorts more rides and more operating days will ensure that it will become cedar fairs new flags ship park in the next 10 years
not even gonna watch your video cuz based on the thumbnail cedar point does not need another park lol, cedar point is cedar point and thats on the peninsula, they're land locked so itll never get bigger than it is now, only replace old rides with new ones, cedar fair is gonna focus on making other parks bigger now, look at how much space kings island has
What about a special parking lot structure towards the back of the park that has a perk, perhaps an exclusive early ride/special tunnel or skyway entrance that leads directly to the back of the park where Vengeance and Maverick are. Parking prices will be the same, but you get ERT for parking there or something?
I see the parking lot as the best way to grow. While I think a garage is a great way, there are so many guests staying very close by that currently have to drive and park. Even if they just do their resorts such as castaway bay and breakers express it could remove hundreds of cars needing to park. a shuttle can free up space.. I also see if you make a second park, moving the somewhat outdated water park off site and building a larger more modern waterpark and offering a ferry could be a great addition. good video with lots of good suggestions, but i doubt anything will change soon because the costs are very prohibitive.
You're definitely right in your suggestions. I'm already working on our next video diving deeper into some more of the parking issues. It's definitely not something I think they will do. But it's not that I think they couldn't. The problem is that with so many other parks in their repertoire, they can't put all their money into one place at a time. Building a second park would tie up all their extra cash for 5 years or so, meaning no other parks would be able to receive the attention they also deserve. Which is a bummer. But, I like to think in terms of what I would do if I were in charge, which would be very aggressively investing in my properties.
I’ve always thought a pier extending from the new boardwalk section, like the one in Galveston, TX would be cool. All the rides from camp snoopy could be relocated there as well as a new family coaster and maybe some other family rides. And that whole section of the park could be a family section. Then it opens up the camp snoopy land for something else.
This is a great idea! There may be a few issues with that plan but nothing that couldn't be worked through. I'm definitely going to think on this some more.
The largest problem I have with the Marina becoming part of the park, is that the existing drive there is for cars to get to lighthouse point and the hotel. That is the ONLY way to get to the hotel, and we cant have cars driving THROUGH part of the park.
I've thought of a number of ways to handle this. I don't want to dive too deeply in a comment but I don't think it would actually be an issue if they ever did do it. There's crosswalks, bridges, underpasses, tunnels, and plenty of other ways that have proven effective at solving this without having to totally reroute the road. Thanks for watching!
While I love the imaginative spirit and am guilty of what if-ing Cedar Point myself, the reality in each of these scenarios is that it's a lot of money to spend when you only have 3 or 4 prime months a year to make money back (if the weather cooperates). keep in mind this is basically a sand bar so while building a 3 level parking garage might not be impossible it's likely to be quite a bit more expensive than one built further inland. Also, a garage 1/3 the size of the current lot will need to be 5 to 6 levels high to accommodate all the people that will be occupying all that new park space. After all, what's the point of adding new park space if it 's not going to bring more people through the gates?
The seasonal issue is definitely the biggest weak point of the area which is why I think Cedar Fair has moved it's headquarters to NC, as Carrowinds shows similar promise to Cedar Point, but has the year-round advantage. I've been working on brainstorming ways to increase year-round traffic to the area, and will probably be making a video on it in the future, one of the potentials outlined briefly in the video is an auditorium that could hold concerts year-round. It's definitely up there in terms of problem size. It directly correlates with a number of other issues I'm outlining in future videos. The garage would not need to be 5-6 levels high as there could be additional options for off-site parking, which I'm already working on a video for. The parking garage on-site is really meant to be enough for premium parking, handicap, and for slow-days. The overall point is to increase the overall footprint of the park while not losing features entirely. I definitely want to lean heavier on off-site. But, as someone who visits the park often, there are currently many slow days where, even if attendance were to double, the parking garage would have plenty of space. All my what-ifs are not just about the park specifically, but about how Cedar Fair could maximize the potential of the park and of their presence in the area. There are numerous non-park things I want to talk about, but by doing them, more people should end up coming to the park in the long term. Thanks for watching! Genuinely appreciate the conversation!
I also like your idea of incorporating the marina area including the restaurants into the park and turning it into a bay theme I think it's a cool idea. My only question is how do you reconfigure perimeter road to drive back to Cedar Point Shores and Hotel Breakers? I think that's the biggest flaw in your idea. You would probably have to put perimeter road directly next to Sandusky Bay in order to turn that area into part of the park.
I would actually suggest not moving it and instead arranging crossings of various types. We could do a combo of bridges and gated crosswalks on timers. The more expensive option is to actually raise that road altogether and make the crossings into tunnels that go underneath the road while the car drive overhead. They could take space under it that isn't being used as a tunnel and turn it into misc. space for maintenance, storage, or even a haunted house.
If you were a dock holder you would think differently. This marina is very social compared to most and brings together many friends from all around. There are a lot of people that live on their boats here from May to October. This idea would absolutely kill the marina.
@ScottCLE This is only one option keep in mind. I would rather them move the cabins north of Cedar Point Shores out onto the beach and expand Cedar Point that way. But there are ways to incorporate the marina into Cedar Point. 1. Expand the marina further south on the peninsula and add some restaurants or shops. 2. Incorporate part of the marina into Cedar Point but not the whole thing. 3. Add more boat docks further south on the peninsula. 4. Build a staircase bridge from Valravn to connect the part of the marina they want to use for the park. These are just a few but I'm sure there are another ways.
Those camp sites on the northeast corner of the peninsula are a plausible option for more park space. You can do one of two things with those campsites to expand Cedar Point. The first option is to move the campsites next to the beach boardwalk directly next to Magnum XL-200 and have some of them wrap around Magnum's helix and some of them to the east of Magnum directly on the boardwalk next to the beach. This would allow you to cut out most of the Cedar Point Shores parking lot to expand the park and push the parking lot back to the current campsite plot. The second option is to just push the campsites on the northeast side of the park all the way back to the original Sandcastle Suites plot and have a good percentage of them directly on the beach for even more space. This is the best option, in my opinion. What you can do is use the entire existing northeast campsite plot next to Magnum XL-200's helix and Cedar Point Shores to make a brand new parking lot there and gut the old Cedar Point Shores parking lot entirely for brand new park space at Cedar Point and this doubles in allowing you to expand Cedar Point Shores on the east side of the peninsula next to Magnum XL-200 as well. Obviously, a reconfiguration of the road heading to Hotel Breakers would need to be addressed with completely gutting the current Cedar Point Shores parking lot but I don't see that as too much of an issue. This is the kind of thing that would need to be done in a Cedar Point offseason but if done in two phases like one offseason they move the campsites and another offseason they gut the old parking lot and build a new one in the campsites spot, I don't believe it's a completely unrealistic project. The total plot of new park space with the old Cedar Point Shores parkling lot plus part of the campsites plot would be about the size of Maverick and Steel Vengeance combined in total space. But to be frank, I think Cedar Point can do without park space expansion for another 20 years. I think only then will moving the campsites to the beach on the northeast corner of the peninsula be necessary. There is still plots of land in the front of the park near Blue Streak and Gatekeeper that can be used for more attractions with some building reconfigurations, plenty of space on Millennium Island for a new rollercoaster or new themed area, some space between Corkscrew and Valravn, and some space for other attractions on Top Thrill 2's midway.
Your idea with gutting the current Shores parking lot and moving it backwards to the current campground is a great one. It was one I actually thought of while I was editing this video. The main problem with it is that when CP shores was renovated, they invested pretty heavily in moving the entrance. I don't see them moving it again to be near the reconfigured parking lot. Maybe if they did move it, and expanded CP shores, they could add a second CP shores entrance off that parking lot, and keep the current one as an entrance from Breakers/The Main Park? I think that could work great! I definitely don't think that the park expansion needs to be something they do immediately. This is actually a topic I want to touch on in another video. While I think this is the #1 problem Cedar Point has in terms of the scale of the problem, I don't think it's the most pressing issue. There's plenty of things they could start working on to improve the park prior to expansion while also planning expansion at the same time.
It's an alright coaster! It's a lot more intense than it looks. But it's not something that people should be traveling any kind of distance for. I think it serves it's purpose well for the location it was built, but it's not going down in the books as a must-ride.
I love your ideas. It's fun to imagine what could be done. I hope they at least do a new stage. The current main stage faces the main walkway and gets crowded when trying to walk by during the shows.
Remove the large parking lot, create a parking lot on the mainland. Add a train, monorail, ferry, skyway SOMETHING OTHER THAN A CAR to get from the mainland to the park
yesssssss
i would love this but would they move gatekeeper and rebuild it closer to be at the new entrance or just not have it go over then entrance anymore?
It would work, but at the same time it wouldn't. If they wanted to buy land on the mainland to build a parking lot, they would almost have to do it on the right side entrence, creating more problems for the residents that live on the road. The left entrence to the park is situated pretty much is downtown Sandusky and there's really no room to build a parking lot on that side.
No thanks don't want it turned into Disney land waiting around for a tram or train
Could do a tram since you would not need to build new info structure and still have vehicle access
I think they have more problems like overselling fast lane, bad traffic flow in/out of the park, lack of shade, lack of sufficient staffing, a barebones maintenance team that hasn't been able to keep up with the amount of rides they have post-COVID, constantly closed food locations, disgusting bathrooms, unreliable rides, no activities to do in bad weather, overpriced and outdated lodging, ops continuously getting slower since COVID, the TTD lawsuit, pushing several employee assaults under the rug, having their police force disbanded due to withholding information from the public, spending millions on investments like Forbidden Frontier and Snake River Expedition only to close them in a couple seasons...etc.
The attraction removals you mentioned weren't removed to make new coasters. They were removed because they were removed because they were no longer cost effective.
And why did they remove some slow family rides in the name of progress? Do coasters make them more money by drawing hordes of teens and young people who can brave extreme coasters? At least they still have the sky ride, steam train, and Cadillac Cars.
@@robkrasinski6217umm coasters are cooler/better. Sounds like you’re a boomer.
Those slow rides you mentioned had extremely low ridership a makes sense to remove them.
my guy made a typo 🤣🤣👉👉
I have said this before, I'll say it again.... SPACE, is Not An Issue for CP... Just by walking IN, you'll see a giant space just dying for a new attraction... IF you look behind the Americana theatre/French Quarter just before Raptor, you will see the old space called , "Point Plaza", which was where they used to do "reserved spaces/tables", for schools, reunions, etc .. That space is BIG, and has been closed/non-operatiinal for years .. There are at least 4-5 other areas like it in the park,.. and that's even Before, you get into taking out old stuff, or moving things around, and the closure of Forbidden Frontier and the western boat ride., etc... space is not an issue for CP
Yes! There is a lot of space already in the park they could utilize too. I think I might add these areas to a future video
@@cedarpointless Yep :)
Point Plaza is still used all the time, but Adventure Island definitely has plenty of space.
@@ThunderhawkZoe point plaza is used for employee appreciation nights, that's it
Is a slow boat ride around the island not viable for some reason? Why would they close the new one?
I’ll be straight: Cedar Point is one of the dumbest designed parks I’ve ever seen. It’s over a mile long, and a space is only an issue because they made an issue. Look at what Hersheypark did with superDooperlooper, great bear, skyRush, the comet…They’re all interwoven. Heck, skyrush is almost entirely on the water. There’s SO MUCH land there, so much WASTED space between and on top of existing attractions, they’re just not willing to be creative with it.
Just look at Blackpool pleasure Beach. Its not that hard to inter lock rides
EXACTLY!!! Explain to me why GCI can't come in and build a solid woodie around millennium force
I’d argue the parking lot is the best option, but instead of garage (which might have issues due to sandy soil anyway), that CP builds the main lot on mainland and shuttles day guests to the entrance over the causeway (tram/bus/monorail). Limit parking on the peninsula to hotel guests and a VIPs perks for season passes, Fast Lane, etc.
Been saying this since they bought the airport
I was barney and raised Northeast Ohio. Sometime ago there was thought that they would illuminate all parking on the peninsula, move it to the other side and install on monorail or some other sort of people mover to transport guests to from the parking lots. I personally think this would be the best option. There’s a lot of land, on the other side, it’s no longer being used and old factories no longer being used
Shhhhh! You're revealing some of the ideas I want to cover in a future video!
You are Barney!?! The purple dinosaur or Barney Stinson?
Meant Born. Sorry! Sheesh!
Good to meet ya Barney!!!
My kiddo used to love your show! Lol Your ideas are good though
5 story parking garage with covered solar panel roof on top floor.itd free up space be cooler and put some juice in the park
Make the peninsula bigger with artificial land lol
I feel like you’re trying to create an issue that CP doesn’t think it has. A lot of their major coasters could be considered standouts and are world class rides, record breakers, etc. We live in a unique time where we don’t exactly know the longevity of large coasters but we do know that a majority of the rides at CP are B&M. Hulk proved to us that you can retrack certain areas and the ride run butter smooth. So it could be worth it to keep Raptor, Gate Keeper, Valravn and all them going into the future. That being said, if you add more land or space, then are they supposed to keep the old rides that no one goes on? Or do you expect them to add new rides to the new space and remove the less popular rides? That’s a dangerous money pit. Once a ride becomes unpopular, remove it to add something different. It’s the best way to do it. Plus the park is already a bear to walk around and wait in lines so adding more space for rides seems like a negative addition. Just my opinion, but I don’t think CP wants to expand their land for any reason. They have the greatest lineup on the planet, the rides are maintainable and serviceable and are well liked, they remove the rides that aren’t well liked and replace with new, the park is big enough as it is, no need to add more excessive walking and waiting.
Why not add a sky train like disney and take out the parking lot?
I'll give you one good reason --- wind. The area gets a lot of wind on a lot of days strong enough to shut down a gondola ropeway system like Disney has in FL. Disney has a fleet of busses and staff to drive the busses to replace to Skyliner system service when it is not / cannot run due to weather. Cedar Point does not have the bus fleet or drivers to shuttle customers on / off point to a remote parking area.
A monorail [which could be more reliable and efficient] is incredibly expensive to build.
It’s not a tiny peninsula it’s huge
The park sits on sand. Sand is not something you would call a stable building material
And remember wheelchair accessibility is federal law, and they are already settling lawsuits regarding these issues
a second park isn't the craziest idea. pair that with moving the camping off site and changing up the marina, you could do a lot. they would need bus service for sure
Who’s going to staff it? They can’t get enough employees for one park.
It be cool to see a coaster entirely built in the water
This has been part of a reoccurring dream I've had since I was actually a child.
If Cedar Point has a space problem, explain Gröna Lund.
Wicked Twister was removed to make room for the Grand Pavilion, not Wild Mouse.
What they need to do away with is the stupid outdoor stage near where the giant screen used to be since it can't be used during inclement weather. HalloWeekends they had all sorts of shows scheduled there and couldn't do them because of rain. It barely gets used during summer. Go back to having shows in the theaters and "saloons" and put a roller coaster there. They could expand that all the way to the road.
You mean near the main station for the steam train? There was a big screen there in June 1995 when I visited for the first and only time. I rode some slow rides that are now retired, like Turnpike and Antique Cars and Pirate Ride.
0:59 Cedar Point got its name because of the Cedar trees not coasters...
It's funny how when one mentions a problem and starts describing it, thoughts instantly come to mind you never imagined before. When you mentioned the main parking lot at 3:25, I was anxiously awaiting you to suggest ...a parking garage!!! Such an obvious solution I never thought of before. I actually wish they would do it, just for logistics. While I think it would require a decent amount of personnel to facilitate parking at beginning of the day and exiting in the evening, they've already got loads of staff triaging that.
But, the biggest benefit of a parking garage will be for families with older people. They potentially wouldn't have a quarter of a mile to walk to get into the park.
It does makes me wonder, now, why they haven't done this yet. I understand building a massive parking garage is costly...but so is building a 400ft high roller coaster.
Perhaps, though, CP doesn't project that they could fill the park if it was 1/4 bigger, even if that extra space was mostly rides. The economics of a park that can only be utilized for 5 months of a year might be the controlling statistic, here. If CP was in Florida or Georgia, there would probably have been a parking garage decades ago.
Yes, I think it would be such a huge benefit to the park! There's plenty of reasons that I could guess why they don't do it. And maybe one day I'll have the time to think through solutions to every one of them. But for now, it's just fun to play with the idea. Thanks for watching!
Relocate the waterpark, its trash anyways and small, add hotel and new area there
Perhaps if they were to build a new part at Sawmill Creek, they could move the waterpark there!
Water is too skinny and protected behind CPSF park. Unless you use canoes! Water is shallow enough that a gondola setup could go across but getting environmental approvals and land use approvals would be impossible but really cool.
I love how everyone EXCEPT Cedar Point has such great ideas about what to do with Cedar Point. 😂😂
This is a great topic I'm going to add to our video idea list. There's a lot to unpack here. Ultimately, I think a lot of it is more complicated than they don't have good ideas. I think a lot of their decisions get boiled in a cauldron of politics and bureaucracy,. It's not that they couldn't do many of these things, it's that their primary responsibility is to see growth for the shareholders, and often the kind of returns shareholders want are short-sighted. Shareholders want quarterly growth. Where decisions like my proposals would lock down the company for multiple years, shareholders wouldn't see a return on investment for that entire time and then some. Pair that with the fact that their free cash must be divided up amongst all their properties and they are going to be acquiring Six Flags' $2.3bn in debt, it's a recipe for odd decisions for the forseeable future.
Well, do you want to send suggestions to Cedar Fair's current CEO, is it Robert Zimmerman? What happened to Matt Oiumet?
I think that a carnival pier extending out from the new pavilion would be a good idea too. Install a small Gerstlaur and a couple of flat rides and some jersey shore style food stands.
The more I think about the idea, the more I like it. It feels to me like a good way to tribute the park's history as a beach. There still is a beach but it isn't treated like a focal point anymore. I think having a pier would be a cool way to bring focus back to the water.
i would move all the parking off the peninsula, that frees up a shit ton of land
And makes the people living on the peninsula a lot less pissed off
yup. free coaster along the causeway to the front gate
Causeway. Did you really just trying to make it sound exotic? No, the locals don’t call it whatever exited your mouth.
Just use trains and move the parking lots. Americans try not to use public transport challenge (I am American… clearly)
The reason parks don’t use parking garages is because they are bottlenecks extremely easily.
They have plenty of space. IF you think creatively. And spend the money.... Or if they just bit the bullet and spent money on a parking garage. Could halve the parking lot. Campground too. Weird water park, get rid of that too.
I don't see why more parks wouldn't want to do the parking garage ideas. It would free up so much space for expansions
A note about the marina: keep in mind that the marina isn't there necessarily to be an attraction for people wishing to visit the park by boat. It's largely a "side hustle" taking advantage of the shoreline and location to rent slots to locals. I would imagine, based on the cost of renting a boat slip, the fact that they already own the land, have the infrastructure, are in a high demand area, minimal staffing is required and they already have the means to access that staffing at a subsidized rate, I'd imagine it might be the most profitable division of the property by percentage.
They have like 4 coasters they could scrap and nobody would bat an eye. That would give them new builds for 10 years.
I have been telling my family and friends for years that in my option Cedar Point should build a resort like breakers with a beach on nearby Johnson’s island or Marblehead and use the docks to provide a ferry shuttle between the resort and cedar point. And in recent years I thought a skyliner from castawaybay and Express hotel area to the park would be great! Cedar Point could really make a great destination if they made it more of a full immersive experience with park and resort. But I also love your pirates area idea.
1:22 Wrong. Wild Mouse took the place of an empty plot of land, not (not "The") Wicked Twister.
And WT took the place of a aquarium which was razed after the 2001 season. CP is a business, and it makes business decisions based on what is profitable or not, and what rides work and what rides have maintenance issues or parts are hard to get because manufacturers went out of business or stopped supporting the type of ride. Maybe WT had issues and they made a business decision to remove it. But, there's no getting the aquarium back.
Doesn't Tivoli Grona Lund also have a port where you can acces the park from?
That was well put together. I think the campground one would work the best. Also, I wasn't aware of the Village Shoppes in Gatlinburg until your vid. Definitely want to check them out now!
Great eye! Glad someone caught that :) Yes, they are across the street from the Mountain Mall, only a short walk from the aquarium.
There are several issues with idea of the moving the campground off the peninsula to the land behind the Sports Force park:
1) Moving it to the land behind the Sports Force park (the remainder of one of the old Griffon airport runways) would actually put the campground further away from Cedar Point than a nice and large KOA campground right down the road on US 6 (Cleveland Rd) just inside the Sandusky city limits. Cedar Point would no longer be able to command the premium prices Cedar Point charges for their campground sites.
2) Also, who would want to camp at a place with tons of baseball tournaments going on just about a football field away many weekends? (The target audience that Cedar Point is looking for most likely would not be interested in that and would just save some money and go to the KOA right down the road closer to the park and have a lot less noise and traffic.)
3) While I love the idea of a ferry / boat service from that spot to the park, it is totally not economically or logistically feasible. All of the water in that bay area off the old airport runway behind the Sports Force Park is very shallow (mostly 3-4 feet or less with tons of sea weeds) and not deep enough to run a boat, let alone a ferry. [There is a reason you never see any boats back there close to that land.] Cedar Point would have to pay a LOT of money (and get the proper EPA approvals) to dredge and constantly maintain a quite long navigation channel across most of the bay to connect to the existing boat navigation channel for the marina and condos on Pipe Creek up to the taller bridge on the Cedar Point Causeway (Cedar Point Drive). It would be a heck of a lot cheaper to run some busses / shuttles.
Another video on the non existent problem of space/land locked. IT'S NOT AN ISSUED EXCEPT IN THE MINDS OF THOOSIES.
Unless you're in the meetings then you really don't know how they feel about their real estate. Are you in the meetings?
@jjohnsontl7973 Actually you just have to know something about business and look at what they have done. Hint, if they were actually concerned about space like silly thoosies, they wouldn't have used the land as they have. They bull dozed the Sandcastles hotel and Breakwater Cafe in 2017 and they used the spot for cabins. If they were really concerned about space they would have left it open, they could have later easily ran a major coaster to that spot starting in the park and had that as a turnaround, kind of like they do with Magnum. The same logic with taking out the Antique cars. Thoosies made dozens of videos of a new coaster in Frontier town, they built The Farmhouse restaurant. You had the same thing when they took out Witches wheel and the dorms. Space not used for coasters. CP is not concerned, they will take out an old coaster when they want coaster and/or use current spots. CP has no concern, it's just thoosies that think they are concerned about pure coaster count, CP isn't.
@@grobble8954 my point still stands. Anything else is conjecture
@@grobble8954 I find this part of the conversation fascinating. It's been clear for a while that Cedar Fair hasn't been trying to be the #1 coaster park in the US anymore. However, that said, I don't think not being the #1 coaster park has to mean giving up on the concept of expansion, or that space is not still an issue. Instead of working hard to do more coasters, you've witnessed, and pointed out, a shift to combine already strong lineup of coasters with an expanding set of options for less thrill-seeking people. To be fair, I'm not a coaster enthusiast. I actually don't go to the park, or any amusement park, with the intention to ride a bunch of coasters. I like having places to just hang around and relax. Which seems in line with the direction I think Cedar Point is heading. Which is why, in each of my suggestions, the new spaces were used to propose a new area with specific theming and concepts, and a new coaster is only a portion of that. I think there's opportunity to both bolster their coaster roster while also improving the overall feel of the park, with the intention of attracting both coaster-lovers and those who aren't. If you stick around for future videos, I think you'll find that the majority of the videos we want to make are not centered around coasters.
Let me save you some time. They're moving the parking lot to the mainland and expanding the park on the peninsula.
I'll tell you what they need-a way to easily access the park without a car AND a parking garage in which the top level still has a roof which rides could be placed on (due to the structure, it could be used as terrain to support something akin to Ghostrider's midcourse drop, and also contain some ovservation style flat rides. Maybe relocate all of Camp Snoopy to up there and redo that current area to have big thrill rides).
This is thinking very boldly. I like it!
how do you only have 200 subs you deserve way more
Some decent ideas, but a lot of your ideas are geared towards a theme park. Cedar Point is an Amusement Park. They even have said multiple times that they are only an amusement park. They tried theming with disaster transport and said never again. Other than that, some valid points.
This is a fascinating topic and the first I've seen someone bring it up on the channel. But I'm now adding this to my ever growing list of video topics. I personally feel the line between amusement park and theme park is rather arbitrary. Additionally, The new Six Flags makes it the 3rd largest company in the industry, and the two above it both run theme parks. If Six Flags wants to aim upward, which is always the goal of a publicly traded company, they need to start taking notes from the parks of those larger competitors.
To be clear, that doesn't mean "Just do everything Disney does" but it does mean seriously consider the things Disney is doing and how you can model their behavior to fit within the identity of your park.
What about Land Reclamation?
They should push the campground out into the lake, then take the old campground area for more park space…
I really like the second park idea! 👏
It would make Cedar point even more of a destination park! 🤘
On the surface it seems simple, but the major issue with this is that the lake is very shallow, and there's a specific channel around the top of the peninsula that has been deepened specifically for ships to be able to pass through. If Cedar Point were to add land, it would remove the ability for any ships that go more than 7-8ft below sea level to pass through the bay.
Yes! The entire point behind a whole series of videos I want to do are basically a "how to" in my mind we could take Cedar Point from a weekend trip for coaster lovers and really make it a destination on a larger scale, both for coaster lovers and others alike. I think there's so much untapped potential.
Thanks for watching!
Gatekeeper could just be renamed if that was no longer the main gate.
Us gen X folks used to imagine a Coaster going into the water, but now that we are adulting none of these ideas are going to fly because the cost is too great! I'll keep watching to see what they continue to do!!!
Peninsula not an island 🙄
He said it’s a peninsula but technically a island
When Cedar Point first started with its ORIGINAL road, (not the current chausse rd... the road that existed before the present day Chausee road alignment) it was a peninsula. A large portion (about a mile portion) of the land that was narrowest point and the original road got wiped out and obliterated by the lake in very bad winter storms that cut off the end of the peninsula connecting closer to the mainland near present day Sawmill Creek's golf course. This necessitated the building of the present-day alignment of what people call the old road (the Chausee) to the mainland with a small bridge that technically surrounds the remainder of the peninsula by water on all sides. So today it technically is an island.
There's plenty of space at cedar point still. At least 3 more rides
Six flags New England has the same issue, they can’t really build anything new without removing something
These problems are definitely not exclusive to Cedar Point! However, I think what sets it apart from other parks is just how solvable the problem is!
they could use the rivers edge campground to the north and double in size
They need to not tear down and build as much. The Iron Dragon still sucks, and it hasn't been removed.
Facts lol
Add corkscrew
@@ntwadumela1777 When my oldest daughter was 7 I took her and the family to Ohio. The 7 year old rode Cork Screw over and over while her mom stood in line for the broken Top Thrill Dragster. Cork Screw might still have it's niche, it just doesn't have riders based on my last trips.
Personally, I love iron dragon! The swimming coaster is my favorite kind of coaster and there's so few of them left! Corkscrew definitely needs some attention but I think a rehab would be better than a removal personally.
@@cedarpointless Corkscrew was installed when I was 3. So to me it has always been there and can stay. That is just my opinion on it.
this video is legendary
I don’t know if i agree I think Cedar point can still fit new rides with being creative and going around current rides despite the lack of space but they are definitely getting landlocked non the less, expanding the park would definitely benefit long term.
This is also why i think Disney should buy Cedar point from the new Six flags chain unpopular opinion but its because i think they can fix a lot of these issues that you mentioned and i think they can do a lot of cool things with the park as well as turning it more as a resort like you mentioned.
This video is definitely a long-term analysis. I think there are definitely spaces they could still use creatively inside the park (cue my next video). But in the very long term, maximizing space is something so many parks have to do, and cedar point is really nearing that point.
I don't think Disney should buy it because I think six flags actually has all the necessary tools and skills to do these things themselves, I just want to see them actually do it. My ideal world is one where there's more competition for the Disney's and universals of the world. Right now, six flags is the closest we have to that.
@@cedarpointless
Gotcha you’re right regardless Cedar point is definitely going to run out of space eventually. I’ll be looking forward to your ideas! I got an idea where such as the Cp dorms plot, behind Millenium Forces station for a coaster station. Possibly Rougarou plot of land Millennium island. North of Corkscrew, or in the middle of Steel Vengeance for like a water ride type of attraction there and the left side of Blue Streak. Maybe Geminis plot too. I think the park should try and renovate alot of there current rather than remove them because of the history. I think they i think thats where they could add new coasters or rides from the looks of it but I’m interested to hear what you think!
Thats mainly why people don’t want Disney to buy it. All though I actually think Disney needs to start looking at getting more parks or resorts because of the growing competition. Ill admit it I’m actually a Disney parks fan and im also a Cedar point fan so thought the idea would be the best of both worlds but idk maybe it doesn’t really fit after all. You got a point though the theme parks side of things does need more competition.
I think the core assertion of this discussion is wrong and I think when people make the claim that the park is running out of space they aren't considering the parks history and proven method of doing things. It's like people think that the park has never considered their space situation and is just blindly building things and that only the brilliant ideas of someone with no practical experience in the industry can save them. Like, I get it, you're just having fun, but this is a persistent conversation people have that just does not need to be had. They aren't running out of space. They aren't going to run out of space. When they want to build something new they will either use some of the actually kind of large unused space on the peninsula, or they will take something out. They've been doing this for decades now and I don't see why they would change that strategy when it objectively has worked. I suppose one day if they reach a point where they have the entire land mass filled with things that cannot be removed it could be a problem, but that day will never come. It's only a matter of time before nobody cares if magnum gets torn down, or heck even their newest big coaster, SV, will reach the end of its life in time. Most coasters don't last 100 years and as much as it can hurt to see beloved rides torn down, it's just the way it goes and after the initial shock life goes on. I can think of several rides and areas of the park right now that could be removed and most people simply wouldn't care. Like if they took out the cabins I really don't think the average visitor would miss them, it's hard to even see them on a normal visit to the park. There can only be so much room for sentimentality in a park like cedar point, much more important for them is changing, keeping pace and staying new and exciting. I was really sad when disaster transport was taken down, and I know a lot of people were sad about wicked twister, but that area of the park now is so much better for those changes. In 40 years the boardwalk might suck, so they'll tear it down.
If you pay attention in the video, the core assertion is that if the park wants to grow (to maintain their position as a top park), they need to expand, for which they'll need more space. By expand, I don't just mean change, I mean actually grow to attract new people, more often, for longer periods of time. For that, they will need more rides, both coasters and not, more things to do, more places to park, more places to stay, etc. It will need to be a physically larger park. To do that, the core assertion is correct that they will need to find creative ways to make space for all that. Whether or not replacing old coasters is involved in their change isn't really the focus of this discussion.
Glad to hear you have differing thoughts, though! I'll gladly welcome any constructive additions to the conversation, even if they are different from my own! And obviously, as you have said, I'm just an outsider looking in. I don't have the information that they have. Maybe if I did, I'd come to the same decisions they do!
@@cedarpointless Ok, why though? Why do they need to expand physically to maintain their place at the top when for the last 30 years they have just changed things and done just fine? Why is this their "#1 problem" all of the sudden? I really think this is just some weird enthusiast thing that happens when they look at the map and see the whole of the land is being used. I highly doubt this is a serious concern for anyone with the actual power to do something about it. Especially since they own most of the local, and now most of the national competition. I think they'll be ok.
Great ideas, I think top thrill is not needed and is just a ride for daredevils. Without top thrill, they have a pretty large area to build rides or a family coaster
That coaster is only for the very brave, or those training at NASA to become astronauts. It probably attracts teens and young people who can stomach it.
top thrill is a massive draw for many people. that is not being removed anytime soon as seen by the renovation into TT2
The footprint for TT2 is long and skinny. It’d be hard to use that space.
@@robkrasinski6217brave? 🤣
High G forces are not for me but I play coaster/park games on computer.
Plenty of space here in the West Tennessee area
They could also get creative like parks like gröna lund having things built on top of each other haha.
But a 2nd park is definitely needed if they can ever swing it. Its usually too crowded to enjoy unless you dont care about hitting everything.
I also wonder if parking could be on mainland ohio and monorail type transit is the primary way to the park when you dont stay on site.
Him: the theme could be like the Italian Coast
*Proceeds* to name a French city State
ope
@@cedarpointlessgreat vid by the way
Bruh...😂😂😂 Get real
These ideas are interesting, and I do love how you made it clear that these were just some ideas you had. And I did see a comment talking about building the parking lot on the main land and then shuttle to cedar point which I feel could work cause dollywood in a way does that, and then you keep some parking on the peninsula for vip or preferred parking. Great video tho
Regarding the marina...don't touch it! All but one pier in the marina are for permanent dock holders. Every single parking spot in the marina lot is needed to accommodate dock holder vehicles. The marina lot fills quickly, especially during July 4th, holiday weekends and Halloweekends. A gate key is now needed to enter the lot which keeps most employees from entering. Removing the parking lot and having dock holders shuttle from the main lot to their piers would spell disaster as people bring food, boat supplies, children, linens and other necessities. It would also create even more of capacity issue in the main lot. Unless they remove the marina all together, all of those marina parking spots will have to stay. On a side note, the walk from the Gatekeeper/Marina gate to Famous Dave's takes less than a minute. The walk to Bay Harbor may take a couple of minutes. Famous Dave's is used mostly by park guests anyway.
🤣
I like your essay! No progress until the current situation dissolves away. No added new entertainment venues until we can get back to square one from years ago. Why build someone else's business? Sorry. If the area was so morbid to stay, keep them gone to their planning mecca. How can you grasp the flavor of any venue without frequent contact. That was the problem currently with Cedar Fair's holdings. Wake-up! At the same time I wish them good luck, I also wish them gone. I kept waiting for the move since some already were gone. Definitely, "Put a period and move on."
When they built Raptor in 1994 I said to myself (my young self), "That is the last roller coaster Cedar Point will be able to build".
I see 2 options
#1 They can do what they already do in one of their properties and have shuttle ride to another location as they do in Texas location..All day long shuttles are transporting guests from gate to gate at cedar fairs Schlitterbahn new braunfels. Or
#2..Built a boardwalk over the water like pleasure pier Galveston Tx..
its a good vid , but the #1 problem isn't space , its the location , the fact that there only able to be open for 130 days a year, they already maximized their income with hotels/resorts etc, investing millions to create more space an spend more on rides is not going to do anything for their attendance numbers.
its still their flagship park , but creating more space , more rides is not going to help them grow , its gonna hurt them in the long run.
one ride out one ride in is the correct call , they should invest some money in making the park look better but thats it, improve guest experience etc.
Cedar fair will maintain cedar points status as one of the best coaster parks in the world , but nothing more then that, their focus should be on making kings island a destination theme park , and making it their new flagship destination park, they already got the attendance numbers and the park in place but adding resorts more rides and more operating days will ensure that it will become cedar fairs new flags ship park in the next 10 years
I do not like the idea of a second park.
Hey, that's fine! We're all entitled to our own opinions.
not even gonna watch your video cuz based on the thumbnail cedar point does not need another park lol, cedar point is cedar point and thats on the peninsula, they're land locked so itll never get bigger than it is now, only replace old rides with new ones, cedar fair is gonna focus on making other parks bigger now, look at how much space kings island has
What about a special parking lot structure towards the back of the park that has a perk, perhaps an exclusive early ride/special tunnel or skyway entrance that leads directly to the back of the park where Vengeance and Maverick are. Parking prices will be the same, but you get ERT for parking there or something?
Thunk about this much?
I definitely have
Holy crap… what an amazing video!! Such great ideas, too!!
Thanks so much!!
Shrink the parking lots to a multi stories park house - it will free a bunch of land.
I see the parking lot as the best way to grow. While I think a garage is a great way, there are so many guests staying very close by that currently have to drive and park. Even if they just do their resorts such as castaway bay and breakers express it could remove hundreds of cars needing to park. a shuttle can free up space.. I also see if you make a second park, moving the somewhat outdated water park off site and building a larger more modern waterpark and offering a ferry could be a great addition. good video with lots of good suggestions, but i doubt anything will change soon because the costs are very prohibitive.
You're definitely right in your suggestions. I'm already working on our next video diving deeper into some more of the parking issues.
It's definitely not something I think they will do. But it's not that I think they couldn't. The problem is that with so many other parks in their repertoire, they can't put all their money into one place at a time. Building a second park would tie up all their extra cash for 5 years or so, meaning no other parks would be able to receive the attention they also deserve. Which is a bummer. But, I like to think in terms of what I would do if I were in charge, which would be very aggressively investing in my properties.
I’ve always thought a pier extending from the new boardwalk section, like the one in Galveston, TX would be cool. All the rides from camp snoopy could be relocated there as well as a new family coaster and maybe some other family rides. And that whole section of the park could be a family section. Then it opens up the camp snoopy land for something else.
This is a great idea! There may be a few issues with that plan but nothing that couldn't be worked through. I'm definitely going to think on this some more.
The largest problem I have with the Marina becoming part of the park, is that the existing drive there is for cars to get to lighthouse point and the hotel. That is the ONLY way to get to the hotel, and we cant have cars driving THROUGH part of the park.
I've thought of a number of ways to handle this. I don't want to dive too deeply in a comment but I don't think it would actually be an issue if they ever did do it. There's crosswalks, bridges, underpasses, tunnels, and plenty of other ways that have proven effective at solving this without having to totally reroute the road. Thanks for watching!
thats easy. build a pedestrian bridge.
While I love the imaginative spirit and am guilty of what if-ing Cedar Point myself, the reality in each of these scenarios is that it's a lot of money to spend when you only have 3 or 4 prime months a year to make money back (if the weather cooperates). keep in mind this is basically a sand bar so while building a 3 level parking garage might not be impossible it's likely to be quite a bit more expensive than one built further inland. Also, a garage 1/3 the size of the current lot will need to be 5 to 6 levels high to accommodate all the people that will be occupying all that new park space. After all, what's the point of adding new park space if it 's not going to bring more people through the gates?
The seasonal issue is definitely the biggest weak point of the area which is why I think Cedar Fair has moved it's headquarters to NC, as Carrowinds shows similar promise to Cedar Point, but has the year-round advantage. I've been working on brainstorming ways to increase year-round traffic to the area, and will probably be making a video on it in the future, one of the potentials outlined briefly in the video is an auditorium that could hold concerts year-round. It's definitely up there in terms of problem size. It directly correlates with a number of other issues I'm outlining in future videos.
The garage would not need to be 5-6 levels high as there could be additional options for off-site parking, which I'm already working on a video for. The parking garage on-site is really meant to be enough for premium parking, handicap, and for slow-days. The overall point is to increase the overall footprint of the park while not losing features entirely. I definitely want to lean heavier on off-site. But, as someone who visits the park often, there are currently many slow days where, even if attendance were to double, the parking garage would have plenty of space.
All my what-ifs are not just about the park specifically, but about how Cedar Fair could maximize the potential of the park and of their presence in the area. There are numerous non-park things I want to talk about, but by doing them, more people should end up coming to the park in the long term.
Thanks for watching! Genuinely appreciate the conversation!
Cedar Point being a sandbar is a common misconception. It actually has a full foundation of rock and clay that is just covered by sand in many places.
I also like your idea of incorporating the marina area including the restaurants into the park and turning it into a bay theme I think it's a cool idea. My only question is how do you reconfigure perimeter road to drive back to Cedar Point Shores and Hotel Breakers? I think that's the biggest flaw in your idea. You would probably have to put perimeter road directly next to Sandusky Bay in order to turn that area into part of the park.
I would actually suggest not moving it and instead arranging crossings of various types. We could do a combo of bridges and gated crosswalks on timers. The more expensive option is to actually raise that road altogether and make the crossings into tunnels that go underneath the road while the car drive overhead. They could take space under it that isn't being used as a tunnel and turn it into misc. space for maintenance, storage, or even a haunted house.
If you were a dock holder you would think differently. This marina is very social compared to most and brings together many friends from all around. There are a lot of people that live on their boats here from May to October. This idea would absolutely kill the marina.
@ScottCLE This is only one option keep in mind. I would rather them move the cabins north of Cedar Point Shores out onto the beach and expand Cedar Point that way. But there are ways to incorporate the marina into Cedar Point.
1. Expand the marina further south on the peninsula and add some restaurants or shops.
2. Incorporate part of the marina into Cedar Point but not the whole thing.
3. Add more boat docks further south on the peninsula.
4. Build a staircase bridge from Valravn to connect the part of the marina they want to use for the park.
These are just a few but I'm sure there are another ways.
Those camp sites on the northeast corner of the peninsula are a plausible option for more park space. You can do one of two things with those campsites to expand Cedar Point. The first option is to move the campsites next to the beach boardwalk directly next to Magnum XL-200 and have some of them wrap around Magnum's helix and some of them to the east of Magnum directly on the boardwalk next to the beach. This would allow you to cut out most of the Cedar Point Shores parking lot to expand the park and push the parking lot back to the current campsite plot. The second option is to just push the campsites on the northeast side of the park all the way back to the original Sandcastle Suites plot and have a good percentage of them directly on the beach for even more space. This is the best option, in my opinion. What you can do is use the entire existing northeast campsite plot next to Magnum XL-200's helix and Cedar Point Shores to make a brand new parking lot there and gut the old Cedar Point Shores parking lot entirely for brand new park space at Cedar Point and this doubles in allowing you to expand Cedar Point Shores on the east side of the peninsula next to Magnum XL-200 as well. Obviously, a reconfiguration of the road heading to Hotel Breakers would need to be addressed with completely gutting the current Cedar Point Shores parking lot but I don't see that as too much of an issue. This is the kind of thing that would need to be done in a Cedar Point offseason but if done in two phases like one offseason they move the campsites and another offseason they gut the old parking lot and build a new one in the campsites spot, I don't believe it's a completely unrealistic project. The total plot of new park space with the old Cedar Point Shores parkling lot plus part of the campsites plot would be about the size of Maverick and Steel Vengeance combined in total space. But to be frank, I think Cedar Point can do without park space expansion for another 20 years. I think only then will moving the campsites to the beach on the northeast corner of the peninsula be necessary. There is still plots of land in the front of the park near Blue Streak and Gatekeeper that can be used for more attractions with some building reconfigurations, plenty of space on Millennium Island for a new rollercoaster or new themed area, some space between Corkscrew and Valravn, and some space for other attractions on Top Thrill 2's midway.
Your idea with gutting the current Shores parking lot and moving it backwards to the current campground is a great one. It was one I actually thought of while I was editing this video. The main problem with it is that when CP shores was renovated, they invested pretty heavily in moving the entrance. I don't see them moving it again to be near the reconfigured parking lot. Maybe if they did move it, and expanded CP shores, they could add a second CP shores entrance off that parking lot, and keep the current one as an entrance from Breakers/The Main Park? I think that could work great!
I definitely don't think that the park expansion needs to be something they do immediately. This is actually a topic I want to touch on in another video. While I think this is the #1 problem Cedar Point has in terms of the scale of the problem, I don't think it's the most pressing issue. There's plenty of things they could start working on to improve the park prior to expansion while also planning expansion at the same time.
awesome video. if cedar point did all of this it would be a seriously next level experience!
Wild mouse sucks I hear.
It's an alright coaster! It's a lot more intense than it looks. But it's not something that people should be traveling any kind of distance for. I think it serves it's purpose well for the location it was built, but it's not going down in the books as a must-ride.
I love your ideas. It's fun to imagine what could be done. I hope they at least do a new stage. The current main stage faces the main walkway and gets crowded when trying to walk by during the shows.
It seriously does! Maybe I should put this in my list of video topics. I'd love to explore this.