I am a Blackmagic guy, but this is a great find! Would be cool if you could real world test this and compare the pseudo-10-Bit-Raw with 12 Bit ProRes Raw...
That is coming up! I actually filmed a test of internal recording vs external raw that was supposed to go up this week. Since all I have to do is transcode the internal recordings that video has shifted a bit so will take some extra time
You got it! Honestly my thoughts are that people don’t quite understand what this whole thing is and how it works. So a lot of content creators don’t want to touch this subject. However that’s why I just kind of let everyone know what this is and how it works but I don’t get into if it is “better” than actually filming raw because I haven’t done enough testing. Hope to have the video out soon though as it’s been filmed
The extra color depth that raw gives you is amazing but the benefit most people see is the ability to accurately change white balance. The reason white balance can be accurately changed with RAW vs it cannot usually with non raw formats is the NLE's can read the raw metadata to properly adjust it. If sony is giving the metadata, then you can just as accurately change the white balance with any codec. Yes you don't have as much color depth to work with. However 422 10bit is a ton of color depth and more than enough of most adjustments.
I agree, shooting 10 bit is more than enough for most people. 12 bit is more for full productions, and even then most of the time they opt for ProRes anyways.
So basically catalyst browse takes the xmp metadata files your fx30 creates and combines it to your slog footage and now davinci can read that new combined file as a sort of raw file. That is cool no lie. Premiere needs to add this asap
So I have some FX30 clips in Catalyst Browse -- where am I suppose to transcode the files, and what do I transcode them into for Resolve to be able to adjust WB/ISO?
What people barely notice is how awesome 8bit was and how its useable in most situations where you control your lights. I watched watchtower of turkey and was impressed for its time but also remembered that's Panasonic gh2 with 8bit 😅 i also did some fast turnarounds lately with s cinetone in hd 8 bit 4 2 0 on fx30 n fx3. All properly exposed and man was i impressed 😅
I once tested it, it worked, but now, somehow my studio version of Resolve doesn't recognize the file as raw. I tryed to set it manually in the project settings in camer raw ...nothing... :(
I'm not sure this is RAW per se, isn't this just passing along the metadata in the output file that Davinci understands. I mean its good to be able to do this if you use Catalyst Browser. I guess I prefer using Gyroflow these days without any transcoding directly in Davinci.
I’m hoping since the FX cameras seem to be the only ones getting this in Davinci for now, it would be great if Sony added a firmware to let the fx30 and fx3 output .MXF files like the fx6 and fx9 can so we can skip the transcode
Great! nice video!! So, Is this Internal 10-bit Raw video comes with Full Sound as well? Is there any time limit recording o overheating in the internal 10-bit raw video mode? Is there a crop when you shoot internal 10-bit raw? Thank a lot, for your answer! 🙏
great video, thanks a lot) unfortunately i can’t get this, I updated my fx30 till 3.0 and last version of CTB and after export of .mxf file still can’t see raw settings inside DaVince, maybe you have advice)))
Hey Geoff, thank you for making this video. Did you try shooting with the all-intra codec on your A7IV to see if that enables the camera raw options once exported again as mxf using catalyst browse?
Pumped, dude. The big turnoff with external is that crop, not interested especially when there are so many things that tighten that image. Can't wait to see the results - but at the end of the day it comes down to workflow efficiency... and hopefully the transcoding and whatnot isn't overly annoying to deal with. Cheers
With shooting on Black Magic and changing ISO in post you are stuck within limited range based on where you set your base iso when capturing. Is that the same with Sony? Just curious due to the sonys less expansive ISO on FX30.
I can't get this to work with FX3 and both Catalyst Browse and Catalyst Prepare (paid version). I've tried numerous times in different codes to no avail.
Yes I've done some testing, everything I read online says Browse only exports 8 bit and you need Prepare for 10 bit and I think that's true for everything except that particular codec. I output a sky and I couldn't get banding in it no matter how hard I tried.@@ReachFilms
If it doesn’t bring up a prompt for you to add it then you won’t have to add it. It gives the prompt when you try to import fx30/fx3 footage. So if there’s no prompt you are good to go
Hey man thanks for sharing this ! Do you have a link or youtube tutorial for converting the files of the fx3 fx30 to mxf ? I know you used CTB but you didn't show the whole process ;) thanks again for the help
I’ll work on a proper tutorial, also make sure you are on the latest firmware of the camera. The older firmwares of the fx6 fx3 etc don’t seem to carry this metadata in the files, so old footage won’t work for this
Yes, I noticed the raw tab popped up in davinci from fx6 files, however I did some test, and you get the sake results from tweaking the raw iso, fir example, and just tweaking the gain wheel in linear mode. I guess the same goes fir WB
If you do everything inside catalyst no need to convert, as the tools are available inside catalyst too and also more cameras are available to change their settings
Yes. But I was wondering if you can gyro stabilize the footage in Catalyst and export. Then bring it into Resovle with all the RAW controls? @@ReachFilms
My A7SIII has those ISO stuff in the Catalyst Browse. I film in HLG3 which has the metadata embedded and when editing on DVRS 18.6 I have insane flexibility with both WB correction and color grading, although I simply love the colors in DVRS when transferring Rec.2020/Rec.2100 HLG to Rec.709/Gamma 2.2-2.6 with good ISO control even at 52,100 ISO.
yeah most of the sony cameras with 10-bit have these features, even the a74 has them, but they dont get the same controls that the fx cameras get when you transcode them to the same codec. At least not right now
@@ReachFilms I do not ever remember using a serial # for my FX30 in Catalyst Browser. But I exported the same as you, and have the option now in Davinci.
@@cantvlog1247 what codec did you use? I tried HS to see if the metadata still transferred (which it did) and that’s when I got the serial number pop up
@@ReachFilms HS accidently this time. Switched from ALL I 4k accidently. I've had my FX30 since release, so who knows what I did back then. Only other thing - is I'm probably sure I did sign in with my Sony account.. I might have enabled HS from another Sony camera.
If I can find a place that won’t max out my bandwidth sure. Problem is, when I’ve done this in the past even with relatively small files, my bandwidth gets maxed out due to the amount of downloads and it becomes an issue for work
What if Sony came out with a monitor/recorder and you could record “internally” through the top monitor?? Like a RED screen and it can connect without an hdmi cord by using the multi port on top??? That would be sick!!!
No need for a monitor, they can do it internally like the new Sony Burano. At leat what can sony do is to put Prores 422 internally like panasonic and fujifilm, it will help a lot for postproduction and also for color grading.
It seems to be necessary, for some reason, to shoot in Cine EI mode for the Intra transcode to be read as Sony Raw by Resolve. I did some tests in PP11 and they just didn't work. All the Cine EI shots work fine.
You only have to add the serial number if it asks you, and also what I found out after this video is, it only comes up when adding HS footage for some reason
@@ReachFilms awesome, though everytime I transcode to XAVC Intra I don’t get the raw settings available in Davinci resolve, not sure what I am doing wrong
Not sure if there’s any benefits from it. From what I understand, you’re just changing its container and allowing you to use the raw tab, but it would be the same just as changing your primaries. So it seems like just an extra step in the workflow yet you’re getting just the same amount of data and flexibilities. The idea of shooting in raw is to gather as much data/information as possible that compressed files aren’t getting well. The files you have with mp4 are already compressed, even though you put it on a “raw” container, you will not get any more information from it, no added flexibility or benefit. I may be wrong but that’s what I understand. Anyway, great effort on the video. Don’t get disheartened, keep it up brother. Looking forward to more discoveries from you.
I’m going to do some actual testing to see how the 10 bit footage gets affected to changes with iso WB etc vs raw. This video was less to make definitive statements but to show what is available to do. I don’t know in the end how much of an advantage this is or not, but the optimist in me hopes it actually does help more than a lot of people think it would.
@@ReachFilms looking forward to it. Hope you find something amazing out of this experiment. Anyway just to clarify, my comment is not to bash or anything, I’m just sharing what I know and is asking for a conversation to confirm if what I understand is correct or there’s something more I can learn about this stuff. Again, good luck with your experiment, really hope you’ll find an amazing discovery. 👊🏼
Hey great video man. Not sure if I’m doing it right in CB , but I see my files , but not option or stage to enter my model number/ serial , as described in your video… and what do I do to transcode the footage?
Hey! If you follow along with where I’m clicking and follow the same settings I input it shows you what you need to do to export, I’ll probably do a more in depth video soon
Interesting, I’d also be interested in seeing how this looks versus adjusting exposure with properly color managed HDR wheels. Cool find! Also you it’s not just 12 bit you miss out on compared to raw, it’s also 422 vs 444.
@@ReachFilms 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 refer to chroma sub-sampling. Raw gives you full color data (which can be saved as a compressed 4:4:4 file) while internal FX3/30 only get 4:2:2.
@@BryceDearden right… which is what I mean raw isn’t 444 but you can compress it to 444 but at that point it isn’t “raw” anymore. So the question is how does the raw stack up to the compressed without completely changing it. When you keep it raw vs .MXF it’s more fair where if you compress the raw, even at 444 it’s still compressed at that point so it isn’t as far
As long as you are shooting in high bitrate 10 bit 4k up to 60p you just put that footage in catalyst browse. So yes you can use old footage as well. I don’t know if there is a specific firmware that this metadata started getting applied
ugh! I got excited from the title and then I realized that it's all clickbait bullshit. WHAT THE F*** is the point of adding an extra lengthy step that does absolutely nothing? You're spending hours transcoding compressed MP4 so that you can unlock a redundant menu in resolve? You can't add data to something that's already been destructively compressed to hell and back. All this is doing is converting the embedded metadata to something which resolve reads as raw metadata and lets you adjust the settings in the raw tab. News flash, the raw tab is absolutely redundant and doesn't do anything that the wheels and other tools don't already do. You can't change the white balance or exposure the same way you can with non debayered footage (raw). The color space transform in the raw tab is no different than CST or automatic color management. You're adding an extra step that does absolutely nothing other than waste hours of your time. Just think about it for a second. If you could convert MP4 to raw, why on earth would anyone shoot raw and waste terabytes of storage? Why would brands spend millions on developing their own proprietary raw formats like b-raw or redcode raw or xocn? Just record MP4 and convert back to raw in post lol
I gotcha for fx30 and fx3 owners it’s an extra step, maybe one day they will let these cameras output .MXF files like the fx6 and fx9 so we can bypass the transcoding
@@ReachFilms no. It's utterly pointless. You CAN'T change the white balance or ISO for anything that's not raw. It'll only apply that yellow or blue cast to simulate that white balance change. It's more or less the same as moving the offset wheel towards yellow or blue and exactly the same as the temperature slider in primary wheels. The only difference is the numbers. Exposure slider in the raw tab is exactly the same as linear gain in primary wheels. MXF has other benefits but this ain't one of them.
@@ReachFilms i'm not gonna make a video on the subject because i'm not keen on wasting hours of my time on something so stupid. However, if you want proof that this faux raw is utter nonsense, send me the transcoded files and the straight out of camera files (just one will do) via google drive or something. I'm asking you to send because I've worked with footage from FX9 and FX6 previously and those mxf files DID NOT have the metadata that enables the camera raw tab in resolve. Either sony have added it via firmware updates, or you've never really used an fx6 or fx9. I've also worked with Canon's mxf files, which also don't support that camera raw tab. But that's quite irrelevant as even if it does enable the raw tab, it still doesn't change the fact that the footage itself has already been debayered, compressed and has gone through the chroma subsampling stage, and hence is no longer raw. Of course you can still make changes to the white balance and exposure but, again, you don't need to transcode the footage for that. The camera raw tab does not do anything that the standard adjustments don't already do. I've also worked with sony venice footage which supports Sony's proprietary raw codec X-OCN. But X-OCN is limited to only their flagship cinema cameras like the venice 1 and 2 and now the Burano. Burano i haven't worked with but several of my previous projects were shot on the venice. X-OCN is by far one of the best raw codecs to work with, and imo, much better than redcode raw. The funny thing is that X-OCN also uses the mxf wrapper because mxf is an open standard and it stands for "Material eXchange Format". I think that's what has confused you into thinking that the fx9 and fx6 mxf files will utilize the raw functionalities. Well, they don't because the fx line doesn't shoot internal raw and it's all xavc intra frame. Hope it helps.
I'm confident, you know far more than I do, but the minute you mentioned transcode, it all became irrelevant, everything and anything is compatible if you transcode.
No that isn’t the case, you can transcode pretty much any Sony footage to the.MXF format, but only the FX three and FX 30 will actually show meta-data once trans coded.
How did you get this to work with the FX30? I converted my clips to the .mxf XAVC Intra and the RAW tab is still greyed out and says "Arri" even when I have seleceted "Sony" in the RAW settings
ISO and white balance are irrelevant for RAW. My guess is that it's shooting 10-bit ProRes (debayered from 10-bits per pixel RAW data), not the fake MPEG 10-bit stuff).
If you ever dabbled in the Magic Lantern world 10bit(vs 12/16 bit) raw is quite acceptable, even preferred due to a plethora of frame rate issues and record times. Ya I know ML is a hack and so is this probably, but I welcome the potential fir particular post situations.
Fully agree. 12 bit is great in 4.5k mode (16:9) but the rolling shutter, low light performance and camera just shutting off randomly is really tough to work with. I’m converting those MLV files to cinema dng with the sony slog3 preset for best results anyway. I feel like this is more of a workflow thing than a firmware hack.
Just to clarify that this is not raw, in any way. 422 10-bit stores a frame in patches of 4x4 for luminance (each luminance value is 10-bit) and 2x2 for color (each chroma value is 10-bit). This is then sent to the mpeg pipeline, which essentially takes each frame and converts it to a 80-90% jpeg, and then it mangles it trough an intraframe compressor that only retains pixels that changed (in the already reduced resolution mangled luminance and chroma), inserting every so often a full frame. It is quite a bit better than 420 8-bit. However, the FX3 claims 15+ stops dynamic range (13.5 in lab tests), and if you want to express this fully, you need 14 bit of luma (how many bits chroma is debatable). In essence, the jpeg gifs that is mpeg are not capable of capturing the full dynamic range of the sensor. Raw (debayered) is in the case of BRAW Q0, a full fame, every frame, with RGB values (no chroma subsampling), no jpeg compression and no intraframe compression, and each R, G and B value is 12 bit. You realize the vast chasm of difference I hope…
Well….. look I just have to be honest here, if you watched the video you would fully know my opinion. This post really looks more like you made a very long comment based on the thumbnail
It really depends on the use, for every day work it adds flexibility to your footage. If you are doing higher end production, especially VFX or green screen work and want to use these cameras 12 but definitely helps in that department
@@EditsByAustin then get a Ninja which can record prores raw at least. Its only $500+ or cheaper second hand. I am not comparing the FX30 to a burano. Thats just dumb. I said get a Burano if you want to record true RAW with a Sony camera.
I am a Blackmagic guy, but this is a great find! Would be cool if you could real world test this and compare the pseudo-10-Bit-Raw with 12 Bit ProRes Raw...
That is coming up! I actually filmed a test of internal recording vs external raw that was supposed to go up this week. Since all I have to do is transcode the internal recordings that video has shifted a bit so will take some extra time
@@ReachFilms Awesome, looking forward to this!
Any update on the compare test?
@@tomn8276 yes! It’s been live on the channel for about a week
@@ReachFilms I apologize. Thank you.
How come you're seemingly the only one talking about this?! I've been searching for so long for this explanation, thanks !
You got it! Honestly my thoughts are that people don’t quite understand what this whole thing is and how it works. So a lot of content creators don’t want to touch this subject. However that’s why I just kind of let everyone know what this is and how it works but I don’t get into if it is “better” than actually filming raw because I haven’t done enough testing. Hope to have the video out soon though as it’s been filmed
The extra color depth that raw gives you is amazing but the benefit most people see is the ability to accurately change white balance. The reason white balance can be accurately changed with RAW vs it cannot usually with non raw formats is the NLE's can read the raw metadata to properly adjust it. If sony is giving the metadata, then you can just as accurately change the white balance with any codec. Yes you don't have as much color depth to work with. However 422 10bit is a ton of color depth and more than enough of most adjustments.
I agree, shooting 10 bit is more than enough for most people. 12 bit is more for full productions, and even then most of the time they opt for ProRes anyways.
So basically catalyst browse takes the xmp metadata files your fx30 creates and combines it to your slog footage and now davinci can read that new combined file as a sort of raw file. That is cool no lie. Premiere needs to add this asap
Yeah for real!
@@ReachFilms definitely subscribed I need to see the tests
How can I do that? :( please.
So I have some FX30 clips in Catalyst Browse -- where am I suppose to transcode the files, and what do I transcode them into for Resolve to be able to adjust WB/ISO?
lmk if you get an answer
@@BabyJayany answer
@@mr.continuity nope 😕
Sameeeee. Helpppp
Things are changing for Sony Guys!! The game changer!!
What people barely notice is how awesome 8bit was and how its useable in most situations where you control your lights. I watched watchtower of turkey and was impressed for its time but also remembered that's Panasonic gh2 with 8bit 😅 i also did some fast turnarounds lately with s cinetone in hd 8 bit 4 2 0 on fx30 n fx3. All properly exposed and man was i impressed 😅
I once tested it, it worked, but now, somehow my studio version of Resolve doesn't recognize the file as raw. I tryed to set it manually in the project settings in camer raw ...nothing... :(
I'm not sure this is RAW per se, isn't this just passing along the metadata in the output file that Davinci understands. I mean its good to be able to do this if you use Catalyst Browser. I guess I prefer using Gyroflow these days without any transcoding directly in Davinci.
I’m hoping since the FX cameras seem to be the only ones getting this in Davinci for now, it would be great if Sony added a firmware to let the fx30 and fx3 output .MXF files like the fx6 and fx9 can so we can skip the transcode
What about the a6700?
great find, thanks. Are there any special projects settings in Camera RAW for the Sony RAW profile that you recommend?
Great! nice video!! So, Is this Internal 10-bit Raw video comes with Full Sound as well?
Is there any time limit recording o overheating in the internal 10-bit raw video mode?
Is there a crop when you shoot internal 10-bit raw?
Thank a lot, for your answer! 🙏
Yea it comes with sound, it’s using the same files you can record internally (10-bit high bit rate) and just transcoding them
Nice find Geoff!
Thanks dude !! 👍
Geoff!! Please share that(or more) converted raw file, so we can test it out!
great video, thanks a lot) unfortunately i can’t get this, I updated my fx30 till 3.0 and last version of CTB and after export of .mxf file still can’t see raw settings inside DaVince, maybe you have advice)))
Hey Geoff, thank you for making this video. Did you try shooting with the all-intra codec on your A7IV to see if that enables the camera raw options once exported again as mxf using catalyst browse?
yes I did, unfortunately it doesn't transfer the proper metadata to work in Davinci
Hi my friend, where I can find de Machine ID number in my FX30? because Catalyst Browse ask me about it, thank you!
Pumped, dude. The big turnoff with external is that crop, not interested especially when there are so many things that tighten that image.
Can't wait to see the results - but at the end of the day it comes down to workflow efficiency... and hopefully the transcoding and whatnot isn't overly annoying to deal with.
Cheers
im pumped too!!! if we are super lucky maybe Sony can let the fx3 and fx30 output .MXF files in a future update
Is this only for the XAVC S-I (All-Intra) codec or also for the more compressed codes like XAVC-HS and XAVC-S?
So far it’s worked for HS in the highest 10 bit bitrate as well
With shooting on Black Magic and changing ISO in post you are stuck within limited range based on where you set your base iso when capturing. Is that the same with Sony? Just curious due to the sonys less expansive ISO on FX30.
So all fx30 codecs and frame rates works with this?
Up to 4k60 in HS and S-I in the highest 10-bit modes
I can't get this to work with FX3 and both Catalyst Browse and Catalyst Prepare (paid version).
I've tried numerous times in different codes to no avail.
What firmware are you on?
2.0@@ReachFilms
Where exactly do I put my camera Serial number in Catalyst browse?
if it doesn't ask when you import footage it seems you won't need to input it
I heard Catalyst Browse is only 8 bit and you need Catalyst Prepare for 10 bit, thoughts?
My thoughts are that isn’t correct lol, or I wouldn’t have been able to do anything I show in this video
Yes I've done some testing, everything I read online says Browse only exports 8 bit and you need Prepare for 10 bit and I think that's true for everything except that particular codec. I output a sky and I couldn't get banding in it no matter how hard I tried.@@ReachFilms
Hello,I did not find the area where you can add the camera type or model number in catalyst browse,where do you add it pls
If it doesn’t bring up a prompt for you to add it then you won’t have to add it. It gives the prompt when you try to import fx30/fx3 footage. So if there’s no prompt you are good to go
@@ReachFilms ok great thanks
Hey man thanks for sharing this ! Do you have a link or youtube tutorial for converting the files of the fx3 fx30 to mxf ? I know you used CTB but you didn't show the whole process ;) thanks again for the help
Yes, I tried it many times, my output is MXF file, XAVC Intra 4:2:2 L5.2 , but RAW features are not available in the DaVinci Resolve.
I’ll work on a proper tutorial, also make sure you are on the latest firmware of the camera. The older firmwares of the fx6 fx3 etc don’t seem to carry this metadata in the files, so old footage won’t work for this
Yes, I noticed the raw tab popped up in davinci from fx6 files, however I did some test, and you get the sake results from tweaking the raw iso, fir example, and just tweaking the gain wheel in linear mode. I guess the same goes fir WB
Can you do this "RAW conversion" along with other adjustments in Catalyst Browse? Like gyro stabillization?
If you do everything inside catalyst no need to convert, as the tools are available inside catalyst too and also more cameras are available to change their settings
Yes. But I was wondering if you can gyro stabilize the footage in Catalyst and export. Then bring it into Resovle with all the RAW controls? @@ReachFilms
What are the export settings in CTB?
My A7SIII has those ISO stuff in the Catalyst Browse. I film in HLG3 which has the metadata embedded and when editing on DVRS 18.6 I have insane flexibility with both WB correction and color grading, although I simply love the colors in DVRS when transferring Rec.2020/Rec.2100 HLG to Rec.709/Gamma 2.2-2.6 with good ISO control even at 52,100 ISO.
yeah most of the sony cameras with 10-bit have these features, even the a74 has them, but they dont get the same controls that the fx cameras get when you transcode them to the same codec. At least not right now
This is great news. So, where do I input the serial for my FX30 in Catalyst Browse? Or is that coming in another video?
When you try to import the footage the prompt will pop up
I had already gone through the process in doing my research on this, so it didn’t pop up during my screen record
@@ReachFilms I do not ever remember using a serial # for my FX30 in Catalyst Browser. But I exported the same as you, and have the option now in Davinci.
@@cantvlog1247 what codec did you use? I tried HS to see if the metadata still transferred (which it did) and that’s when I got the serial number pop up
@@ReachFilms HS accidently this time. Switched from ALL I 4k accidently. I've had my FX30 since release, so who knows what I did back then. Only other thing - is I'm probably sure I did sign in with my Sony account.. I might have enabled HS from another Sony camera.
Is there any chance you could upload some of those transcoded "sony raw" footage for us to test with?
If I can find a place that won’t max out my bandwidth sure. Problem is, when I’ve done this in the past even with relatively small files, my bandwidth gets maxed out due to the amount of downloads and it becomes an issue for work
What if Sony came out with a monitor/recorder and you could record “internally” through the top monitor?? Like a RED screen and it can connect without an hdmi cord by using the multi port on top??? That would be sick!!!
No need for a monitor, they can do it internally like the new Sony Burano. At leat what can sony do is to put Prores 422 internally like panasonic and fujifilm, it will help a lot for postproduction and also for color grading.
It seems to be necessary, for some reason, to shoot in Cine EI mode for the Intra transcode to be read as Sony Raw by Resolve. I did some tests in PP11 and they just didn't work. All the Cine EI shots work fine.
No that isn’t the case, I’ve been filming in flexible iso
Where in Catalyse Prepare do I enter the serial & model number to activate this internal raw transcode feature?
You only have to add the serial number if it asks you, and also what I found out after this video is, it only comes up when adding HS footage for some reason
@@ReachFilms awesome, though everytime I transcode to XAVC Intra I don’t get the raw settings available in Davinci resolve, not sure what I am doing wrong
Will this work on the free version of Davinci Resolve?
I don’t think so
I can confirm this works with the free version of DaVinci Resolve (I tried with FX3 footage).
Not sure if there’s any benefits from it. From what I understand, you’re just changing its container and allowing you to use the raw tab, but it would be the same just as changing your primaries. So it seems like just an extra step in the workflow yet you’re getting just the same amount of data and flexibilities.
The idea of shooting in raw is to gather as much data/information as possible that compressed files aren’t getting well. The files you have with mp4 are already compressed, even though you put it on a “raw” container, you will not get any more information from it, no added flexibility or benefit. I may be wrong but that’s what I understand. Anyway, great effort on the video. Don’t get disheartened, keep it up brother. Looking forward to more discoveries from you.
I’m going to do some actual testing to see how the 10 bit footage gets affected to changes with iso WB etc vs raw. This video was less to make definitive statements but to show what is available to do. I don’t know in the end how much of an advantage this is or not, but the optimist in me hopes it actually does help more than a lot of people think it would.
@@ReachFilms looking forward to it. Hope you find something amazing out of this experiment.
Anyway just to clarify, my comment is not to bash or anything, I’m just sharing what I know and is asking for a conversation to confirm if what I understand is correct or there’s something more I can learn about this stuff. Again, good luck with your experiment, really hope you’ll find an amazing discovery. 👊🏼
@@GlennUpgraded yeah I totally get it! Thanks!
Will this works with sony a7s3 also??
Doesn’t seem so right now
@@ReachFilms Don't know why they are ignoring Sony a7s3 from any of their firmware updates..
Teach How to transcode
Hey great video man. Not sure if I’m doing it right in CB , but I see my files , but not option or stage to enter my model number/ serial , as described in your video… and what do I do to transcode the footage?
Hey! If you follow along with where I’m clicking and follow the same settings I input it shows you what you need to do to export, I’ll probably do a more in depth video soon
@@ReachFilms yes plz🤩🤩
@@ReachFilmswait…. What codec do I need to be shooting on the fx3…. All Intra?
@@rMr.big13 I’ve been able to do it with HS and all intra
Cue Jaws soundtrack with Red lawyers walking into frame…
It’s 10 bit and technically not compressed raw so I think they will be ok
Interesting, I’d also be interested in seeing how this looks versus adjusting exposure with properly color managed HDR wheels. Cool find!
Also you it’s not just 12 bit you miss out on compared to raw, it’s also 422 vs 444.
Thanks! Also 422 and 444 are terms for compressed files raw is neither, it just can be converted into 444 or 422
@@ReachFilms 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 refer to chroma sub-sampling. Raw gives you full color data (which can be saved as a compressed 4:4:4 file) while internal FX3/30 only get 4:2:2.
@@BryceDearden right… which is what I mean raw isn’t 444 but you can compress it to 444 but at that point it isn’t “raw” anymore. So the question is how does the raw stack up to the compressed without completely changing it. When you keep it raw vs .MXF it’s more fair where if you compress the raw, even at 444 it’s still compressed at that point so it isn’t as far
How do you go about capturing raw internally do I do it in camera or in catalyst browse? I got the fx30
As long as you are shooting in high bitrate 10 bit 4k up to 60p you just put that footage in catalyst browse. So yes you can use old footage as well. I don’t know if there is a specific firmware that this metadata started getting applied
@@ReachFilms ok thanks
ugh! I got excited from the title and then I realized that it's all clickbait bullshit. WHAT THE F*** is the point of adding an extra lengthy step that does absolutely nothing? You're spending hours transcoding compressed MP4 so that you can unlock a redundant menu in resolve? You can't add data to something that's already been destructively compressed to hell and back. All this is doing is converting the embedded metadata to something which resolve reads as raw metadata and lets you adjust the settings in the raw tab. News flash, the raw tab is absolutely redundant and doesn't do anything that the wheels and other tools don't already do. You can't change the white balance or exposure the same way you can with non debayered footage (raw). The color space transform in the raw tab is no different than CST or automatic color management. You're adding an extra step that does absolutely nothing other than waste hours of your time. Just think about it for a second. If you could convert MP4 to raw, why on earth would anyone shoot raw and waste terabytes of storage? Why would brands spend millions on developing their own proprietary raw formats like b-raw or redcode raw or xocn? Just record MP4 and convert back to raw in post lol
I gotcha for fx30 and fx3 owners it’s an extra step, maybe one day they will let these cameras output .MXF files like the fx6 and fx9 so we can bypass the transcoding
@@ReachFilms no. It's utterly pointless. You CAN'T change the white balance or ISO for anything that's not raw. It'll only apply that yellow or blue cast to simulate that white balance change. It's more or less the same as moving the offset wheel towards yellow or blue and exactly the same as the temperature slider in primary wheels. The only difference is the numbers. Exposure slider in the raw tab is exactly the same as linear gain in primary wheels.
MXF has other benefits but this ain't one of them.
@@MionwangI look forward to seeing your videos showing this!
@@ReachFilms i'm not gonna make a video on the subject because i'm not keen on wasting hours of my time on something so stupid. However, if you want proof that this faux raw is utter nonsense, send me the transcoded files and the straight out of camera files (just one will do) via google drive or something.
I'm asking you to send because I've worked with footage from FX9 and FX6 previously and those mxf files DID NOT have the metadata that enables the camera raw tab in resolve. Either sony have added it via firmware updates, or you've never really used an fx6 or fx9. I've also worked with Canon's mxf files, which also don't support that camera raw tab. But that's quite irrelevant as even if it does enable the raw tab, it still doesn't change the fact that the footage itself has already been debayered, compressed and has gone through the chroma subsampling stage, and hence is no longer raw. Of course you can still make changes to the white balance and exposure but, again, you don't need to transcode the footage for that. The camera raw tab does not do anything that the standard adjustments don't already do.
I've also worked with sony venice footage which supports Sony's proprietary raw codec X-OCN. But X-OCN is limited to only their flagship cinema cameras like the venice 1 and 2 and now the Burano. Burano i haven't worked with but several of my previous projects were shot on the venice. X-OCN is by far one of the best raw codecs to work with, and imo, much better than redcode raw.
The funny thing is that X-OCN also uses the mxf wrapper because mxf is an open standard and it stands for "Material eXchange Format". I think that's what has confused you into thinking that the fx9 and fx6 mxf files will utilize the raw functionalities. Well, they don't because the fx line doesn't shoot internal raw and it's all xavc intra frame. Hope it helps.
I'm confident, you know far more than I do, but the minute you mentioned transcode, it all became irrelevant, everything and anything is compatible if you transcode.
No that isn’t the case, you can transcode pretty much any Sony footage to the.MXF format, but only the FX three and FX 30 will actually show meta-data once trans coded.
How did you get this to work with the FX30? I converted my clips to the .mxf XAVC Intra and the RAW tab is still greyed out and says "Arri" even when I have seleceted "Sony" in the RAW settings
What codec and frame rate are you trying?
@@ReachFilms XAVC S-I 23.98 in Cine EI
@@Kaotix_music as long as you are in 10 bit and see the metadata in catalyst browse then export in XAVC i you should be good
@@ReachFilms is it only a DaVinci resolve studio thing to make it work then I guess?
@@Kaotix_music yes you are correct you need davinci studio for any of this kind of stuff with “raw”
I was hesitant to buy a atomos ninja. now this is game changer. not sure if this is a work around Red's stupid patent.
Keep exploring
Will do!!
Woow!!😮
🖖
ISO and white balance are irrelevant for RAW. My guess is that it's shooting 10-bit ProRes (debayered from 10-bits per pixel RAW data), not the fake MPEG 10-bit stuff).
This is dope man! I wish my FX3 shot to .MXF files so I wouldn't have to transcode to get the RAW tab to open up.
me too!! maybe one day they will add it in via firmware if we are lucky
nice!
Thanks!
If you ever dabbled in the Magic Lantern world 10bit(vs 12/16 bit) raw is quite acceptable, even preferred due to a plethora of frame rate issues and record times. Ya I know ML is a hack and so is this probably, but I welcome the potential fir particular post situations.
Fully agree. 12 bit is great in 4.5k mode (16:9) but the rolling shutter, low light performance and camera just shutting off randomly is really tough to work with. I’m converting those MLV files to cinema dng with the sony slog3 preset for best results anyway. I feel like this is more of a workflow thing than a firmware hack.
Examples? Let's see it in action.
Coming soon!
Internal raw that's what she said
Just to clarify that this is not raw, in any way. 422 10-bit stores a frame in patches of 4x4 for luminance (each luminance value is 10-bit) and 2x2 for color (each chroma value is 10-bit). This is then sent to the mpeg pipeline, which essentially takes each frame and converts it to a 80-90% jpeg, and then it mangles it trough an intraframe compressor that only retains pixels that changed (in the already reduced resolution mangled luminance and chroma), inserting every so often a full frame. It is quite a bit better than 420 8-bit. However, the FX3 claims 15+ stops dynamic range (13.5 in lab tests), and if you want to express this fully, you need 14 bit of luma (how many bits chroma is debatable). In essence, the jpeg gifs that is mpeg are not capable of capturing the full dynamic range of the sensor.
Raw (debayered) is in the case of BRAW Q0, a full fame, every frame, with RGB values (no chroma subsampling), no jpeg compression and no intraframe compression, and each R, G and B value is 12 bit.
You realize the vast chasm of difference I hope…
Well….. look I just have to be honest here, if you watched the video you would fully know my opinion. This post really looks more like you made a very long comment based on the thumbnail
Just a big fuss. U don't get 12bit, but you're avoiding purchasing ninja and fcp. Still 10 bit thou. Not worthy
It really depends on the use, for every day work it adds flexibility to your footage. If you are doing higher end production, especially VFX or green screen work and want to use these cameras 12 but definitely helps in that department
🤝🤝
Yeah bro!!
This is not really “raw” then. If you want true raw with the FX lines, just get a Ninja or better yet, get a Burano.
“Better yet get a burano” how does comparing a $25,000 camera to a $1,600 camera make any sense? Lol
@@EditsByAustin then get a Ninja which can record prores raw at least. Its only $500+ or cheaper second hand. I am not comparing the FX30 to a burano. Thats just dumb. I said get a Burano if you want to record true RAW with a Sony camera.
this is not real raw ;D... almost got me! ;) nice joke.
my 10 years old Eos M original has 14bit 5.7K 3.2k 1:1 pixel readout, and slomotion + dual-iso raw output. this is real raw.. a raw frame by frame.
What about a7siii?
As of right now that camera doesn’t seem to work with this, but that could change in the future
Thx for the info! @@ReachFilms