Thanks for making this. I'm in the US and just took delivery of a Luba 2, and wanted to understand more on the satellite side of things before I placed the rtk receiver permanent
Great video, thanks for taking the time. Will help a lot as a new segway owner i found a lot they dint explain why it needs to be set up a certain way. Understanding how the tech works really helps. The missing part for me was not knowing how the base station communicated with the bot, but now i do. Cheers
Great explanation in the video! If you're interested in exploring high-precision positioning technology, I recommend looking into Kinvey GNSS antennas, especially for automatic lawnmowers and autonomous vehicles, as they significantly enhance positioning accuracy and help devices operate more efficiently.
Excellent. Thank you so much for taking the time producing this video. It is essential viewing for all those potential users who intend to install their robotic mower without professional guidance.
Hi all, before someone points it out, just want to acknowledge myself that I did neglect to mention the Japanese and Indian GNSS systems. The Japanese system QZSS is very relevant to Australia but the Indian system not so much with its current satellites.
I am following your website for a few years. Now the content on the TH-cam channel as well. Really top notch. I couldn’t buy from you previously because you didn’t have installation service in Melbourne. With the coming of diy wire free mowers, I will be buying from you going forward. Really impressed with your knowledge and service. You will be big.
Thanks alway love a black adder fan :) . We do our best to excel in our knowledge and service so customers have a one stop shop for all things robot mowers.
Thanks for this video! I am in Australia too and was considering a LUBA but you may of just saved me some heart ache as I have a 2 story home with about 250 m3 of lawn surrounding to mow. I think I could located the RTK station with good coverage but the house would probably block out the mower when it is mowing much of the yard. Any recommendations for an alternative? A mower with LIDAR like my roborock vacuum maybe?
Hello! Could you make a recommendation for a robot mower? I live on about 6 acres and I need something that is capable of handling that much area. What would be your choice? Thank you.
I am seeing owners who are claiming the Lubs RTK system can have the base set up in the attic. This is contrary to everything the experts advise. What are your thoughts?
We can't do that here in australia, as our roof materials are either metal or thick concrete tiles. I think if your roof is thin enought it might be worth trying, but it will definately reduce the acuracy of the robot.
great informative video thanks for sharing. I have a question, when looking at the satellites in the augmented view should we only have GPS satellites selected or does the system use some others. I am in UK in case that makes a difference. tia
All robot mowers I know of use, GPS, Galileo, BeiDou and GLONASS. So turn all of these on. I usually exclude 15deg from the horizon as well and not many robot mowers on the ground are going to see that close to the horizon.
If you have narrow areas less than1.5mt wide then Iwould go for the wired landroid models for sure. If the areas all have fairly wide spaces more then 1.5mt then the Luba would work great assuming you have open skys above.
Do any of the mowers allow for the use of multiple RTK sources to improve use in low-coverage zones (or to increase chance of shared-view of satellites?)
RTK Base antenna can be anywhere as long as the communication signal between the robot and the antenna are within range. Segway navimow is around 100mt, Luba can reach around 200mt and Husqvarna around 300-400mt. Segway is also the only robotmower tht requires the Antenna to be plugged into the charging station, so it is limited by the amount of cable you have for the antenna. Other than that the charging stations have no connectivity with the RTK Base Antennas.
Im thinking about buying newer model, however, the rtk has a solar panel at the top of it. I simply dont how does it work, does it need a wire constantly conected to the electric current? What happends if there's no sun and the rtk battery runs out.
Yes Luba 2 has a solar panel coming that willcharge internal batteries and power the RTK base antenna. The battery will last around 10 days and charge in only a few hours of sun light, so hopefully there are very few occassions where someones antenna turns off. If the antenna turns off the robot will not work.
Hi, we have had one installation that we had issues with the RTK signal dropping out. We think it was more to do with the 915mhz radio signal so that would not be affected by the starlink signals. So there is not logical reason for starlink to interfere with the Luba RTK base. But if possibe I would stillkeep them separated by 5-10mt.
I assume you are talking about a LUBA 1? If it is reaching the charger but not turning around to start docking then it could be missing the channel to the dock. So try relocating the charging station in the App. If it does turn around but does not try to dock then it is likley to do with the IR signal not working on the docking station. Try cleaning the IR sensor on both the robot and the charging station. If it turns around and attempts to dock but fails to dock properly, then it could be dirt charging contacts or a bad power supply or a bad chargoing station board. I hope this helps.
@@robotlawnmowersaustralia7913 No, I have the Luba 10000 that does 2.5 acres, and I’m at my place in Missouri, USA. This thing is new out of the box and the infra red sensor is probably dead. Mammotion finally got back to me after raising a little hell. They had me test the infra red sensor this morning. My guess is that it’s dead because the mower failed the test.
No, you can only connect one rtk base to each robot mower. You can connect more than one robot to one antenna. This is the case for all robot mower brands that have rtk based technology.
Why rely on RTK or GPS at all? Why not have 3 simple antennas transmitting very low frequency and use triangular coordinates. Using GPS seems like over kill and has lots of problems. In other words, we don't need our position on earth. Need our position relative to a point in your yard.
I agree with your principle however many companies have spent significant investments in similar tech and have not succeeded to get the accuracy required. iRobot launched the “Terra” back in 2019 and it failed. They then sold the tech to Ecovas and they have now launched the G1 Goat. This robot is ok for simple areas but is not able to be used on larger properties and requires almost direct line of sight with the beacons. So at this time it seems that RTK GNSS combined with camera vision is the best option. Robots like the Luba 2 and Segway iSeries work really well to combat the issues RTK has. Then there is all the LiDar and Slam tech that is coming. Again most companies have persisted for years to develop this tech without using RTK, but most have fallen back to using additional RTK positioning to navigate in open spaces and fall back on the LiDar in areas with no GNSS. So as much as agree with your comment, it seems it has been incredibly difficult to achieve. Thanks.
The speed of light in air is: \[ \text{Speed of Light in Air} = \frac{\text{Speed of Light in Vacuum}}{\text{Refractive Index of Air}} = \frac{299,792,458}{1.0003} \approx 299,702,547 \, \text{m/s} \] Now, using the same approach as before, we can calculate the time error for a 1 cm accuracy: \[ \text{Time Error} = \frac{0.01}{299,702,547} \approx 3.34 \times 10^{-11} \, \text{seconds} \] This value is still approximately **33.4 picoseconds**, as the difference in the speed of light in air versus vacuum is very small (a reduction of about 0.03%). Clocks capable of achieving time accuracy within 33.4 picoseconds are extremely specialized and expensive, typically found in scientific, military, and aerospace applications. To give a sense of the types of clocks that can reach this level of precision: 1. Atomic Clocks: These are some of the most precise timekeeping devices available. For instance: • Cesium Atomic Clocks: They have an accuracy in the range of 10 nanoseconds (ns). Cesium clocks are less precise than needed for 33.4 ps accuracy. • Optical Lattice Clocks: These are state-of-the-art clocks with potential accuracies reaching femtoseconds (10^-15 seconds), well beyond the 33.4 ps threshold. These clocks can cost several millions of dollars and are found only in top scientific laboratories. 2. Chip-Scale Atomic Clocks (CSAC): While more affordable, they are still not quite as accurate as required here. These typically offer precision in the microsecond (µs) to low nanosecond range, and they cost around $1,500 to $10,000 depending on the model. For a clock to be accurate to within 33.4 ps, you would likely need an optical atomic clock or another similarly advanced system. These could range from $500,000 to several million dollars, depending on the precision required, calibration, and application. In practical terms, achieving this level of precision is usually part of a highly specialized and controlled environment, like those used in national time-keeping institutions or for advanced GPS systems. So, even accounting for the atmosphere at 100 feet above sea level, the timing accuracy required for 1 cm positioning precision remains around **33.4 picoseconds**.
Thanks for making this. I'm in the US and just took delivery of a Luba 2, and wanted to understand more on the satellite side of things before I placed the rtk receiver permanent
Thanks. Im glad it can help.
Great video, thanks for taking the time. Will help a lot as a new segway owner i found a lot they dint explain why it needs to be set up a certain way. Understanding how the tech works really helps. The missing part for me was not knowing how the base station communicated with the bot, but now i do. Cheers
This video is incredible! This answered more of my questions than any redit post, manufacturer instruction or other youtube video.
Great explanation in the video! If you're interested in exploring high-precision positioning technology, I recommend looking into Kinvey GNSS antennas, especially for automatic lawnmowers and autonomous vehicles, as they significantly enhance positioning accuracy and help devices operate more efficiently.
Excellent. Thank you so much for taking the time producing this video. It is essential viewing for all those potential users who intend to install their robotic mower without professional guidance.
You're very welcome!
Hi all, before someone points it out, just want to acknowledge myself that I did neglect to mention the Japanese and Indian GNSS systems. The Japanese system QZSS is very relevant to Australia but the Indian system not so much with its current satellites.
I am following your website for a few years. Now the content on the TH-cam channel as well. Really top notch. I couldn’t buy from you previously because you didn’t have installation service in Melbourne. With the coming of diy wire free mowers, I will be buying from you going forward. Really impressed with your knowledge and service. You will be big.
Thanks alway love a black adder fan :) . We do our best to excel in our knowledge and service so customers have a one stop shop for all things robot mowers.
Thanks for this video! I am in Australia too and was considering a LUBA but you may of just saved me some heart ache as I have a 2 story home with about 250 m3 of lawn surrounding to mow. I think I could located the RTK station with good coverage but the house would probably block out the mower when it is mowing much of the yard.
Any recommendations for an alternative? A mower with LIDAR like my roborock vacuum maybe?
Thank you! Very informative video that is just what I needed to optimize the position the base station of my newly purchased Luba 2.
Thanks for the explanation 🙏, really clear and understandable 👍
You are very welcome
Great video, but the underlaying music is distracting. Please consider lowering the volume next time.
i will keep that in mind for furure videos. Thanks. This video is posted twice on our channel. One has no backing music.
Thanks.
Well explained 👍
Cheers.
Well done good precise video. I live in France and this will help a lot.
Glad it was helpful!
Hello! Could you make a recommendation for a robot mower? I live on about 6 acres and I need something that is capable of handling that much area. What would be your choice? Thank you.
I am seeing owners who are claiming the Lubs RTK system can have the base set up in the attic. This is contrary to everything the experts advise. What are your thoughts?
We can't do that here in australia, as our roof materials are either metal or thick concrete tiles. I think if your roof is thin enought it might be worth trying, but it will definately reduce the acuracy of the robot.
great informative video thanks for sharing. I have a question, when looking at the satellites in the augmented view should we only have GPS satellites selected or does the system use some others. I am in UK in case that makes a difference. tia
All robot mowers I know of use, GPS, Galileo, BeiDou and GLONASS. So turn all of these on. I usually exclude 15deg from the horizon as well and not many robot mowers on the ground are going to see that close to the horizon.
Good explanations well done for doing same much appreciated
Thanks
So between a Landroid with ACS and the Luba 2, which do you think is a better package in the end for a diverse garden? Trees, flowers, etc.
If you have narrow areas less than1.5mt wide then Iwould go for the wired landroid models for sure. If the areas all have fairly wide spaces more then 1.5mt then the Luba would work great assuming you have open skys above.
Thanks for the videos👍🏼
Glad you like them!
Thank you. Very informative
You are welcome!
Do any of the mowers allow for the use of multiple RTK sources to improve use in low-coverage zones (or to increase chance of shared-view of satellites?)
No unfortunately RTK systems do not work like this. Only one antenna or base can be used.
Thank you for the video. Does the base station/antenna and the charging station need to be on the same spot?
No.
RTK Base antenna can be anywhere as long as the communication signal between the robot and the antenna are within range. Segway navimow is around 100mt, Luba can reach around 200mt and Husqvarna around 300-400mt. Segway is also the only robotmower tht requires the Antenna to be plugged into the charging station, so it is limited by the amount of cable you have for the antenna. Other than that the charging stations have no connectivity with the RTK Base Antennas.
Excellent Video!
thanks
This was amazing! Thank you 😊
You're so welcome!
Would installing a second base help in dead spots. And would the company have to change its software?
No, additional base antennas do not help as long as the antenna you have is located in an open location and can see 160deg view of the sky.
Im thinking about buying newer model, however, the rtk has a solar panel at the top of it. I simply dont how does it work, does it need a wire constantly conected to the electric current? What happends if there's no sun and the rtk battery runs out.
Yes Luba 2 has a solar panel coming that willcharge internal batteries and power the RTK base antenna. The battery will last around 10 days and charge in only a few hours of sun light, so hopefully there are very few occassions where someones antenna turns off.
If the antenna turns off the robot will not work.
If I place my RTK close to my Starlink satellite, will it disturb the signal for my RTK and vice versa?
Hi, we have had one installation that we had issues with the RTK signal dropping out. We think it was more to do with the 915mhz radio signal so that would not be affected by the starlink signals. So there is not logical reason for starlink to interfere with the Luba RTK base. But if possibe I would stillkeep them separated by 5-10mt.
My lawn Moore has become sentient how do I fix i ?
sentient lawn mowers would be a concern.
Great article, thank you for explaining. Only recommendation I have is to put a link to the app you mentioned. (I went through again and found it).
Maybe you can post a link to the app? ;)
Thanks for that I have added a link for both IOS and android.
done
My lawnmower will do its task, but falls short by about 30 inches when it tries to go to the docking station to recharge. Why would it do that?
I assume you are talking about a LUBA 1?
If it is reaching the charger but not turning around to start docking then it could be missing the channel to the dock. So try relocating the charging station in the App.
If it does turn around but does not try to dock then it is likley to do with the IR signal not working on the docking station. Try cleaning the IR sensor on both the robot and the charging station.
If it turns around and attempts to dock but fails to dock properly, then it could be dirt charging contacts or a bad power supply or a bad chargoing station board.
I hope this helps.
@@robotlawnmowersaustralia7913 No, I have the Luba 10000 that does 2.5 acres, and I’m at my place in Missouri, USA. This thing is new out of the box and the infra red sensor is probably dead. Mammotion finally got back to me after raising a little hell. They had me test the infra red sensor this morning. My guess is that it’s dead because the mower failed the test.
can you connect two rtk to cover more satellites
No, you can only connect one rtk base to each robot mower. You can connect more than one robot to one antenna. This is the case for all robot mower brands that have rtk based technology.
The video had a lot of good information, but the music as well as the constant video cuts and pressing on the gizmo was pretty distracting.
Thanks for the tips!
Thanks
Welcome
Why rely on RTK or GPS at all? Why not have 3 simple antennas transmitting very low frequency and use triangular coordinates. Using GPS seems like over kill and has lots of problems. In other words, we don't need our position on earth. Need our position relative to a point in your yard.
I agree with your principle however many companies have spent significant investments in similar tech and have not succeeded to get the accuracy required. iRobot launched the “Terra” back in 2019 and it failed. They then sold the tech to Ecovas and they have now launched the G1 Goat. This robot is ok for simple areas but is not able to be used on larger properties and requires almost direct line of sight with the beacons.
So at this time it seems that RTK GNSS combined with camera vision is the best option. Robots like the Luba 2 and Segway iSeries work really well to combat the issues RTK has.
Then there is all the LiDar and Slam tech that is coming. Again most companies have persisted for years to develop this tech without using RTK, but most have fallen back to using additional RTK positioning to navigate in open spaces and fall back on the LiDar in areas with no GNSS.
So as much as agree with your comment, it seems it has been incredibly difficult to achieve.
Thanks.
I've been saying this for Years , I'd rather buy 10 bases for my yard that rely on a space station.
The speed of light in air is:
\[
\text{Speed of Light in Air} = \frac{\text{Speed of Light in Vacuum}}{\text{Refractive Index of Air}} = \frac{299,792,458}{1.0003} \approx 299,702,547 \, \text{m/s}
\]
Now, using the same approach as before, we can calculate the time error for a 1 cm accuracy:
\[
\text{Time Error} = \frac{0.01}{299,702,547} \approx 3.34 \times 10^{-11} \, \text{seconds}
\]
This value is still approximately **33.4 picoseconds**, as the difference in the speed of light in air versus vacuum is very small (a reduction of about 0.03%).
Clocks capable of achieving time accuracy within 33.4 picoseconds are extremely specialized and expensive, typically found in scientific, military, and aerospace applications. To give a sense of the types of clocks that can reach this level of precision:
1. Atomic Clocks: These are some of the most precise timekeeping devices available. For instance:
• Cesium Atomic Clocks: They have an accuracy in the range of 10 nanoseconds (ns). Cesium clocks are less precise than needed for 33.4 ps accuracy.
• Optical Lattice Clocks: These are state-of-the-art clocks with potential accuracies reaching femtoseconds (10^-15 seconds), well beyond the 33.4 ps threshold. These clocks can cost several millions of dollars and are found only in top scientific laboratories.
2. Chip-Scale Atomic Clocks (CSAC): While more affordable, they are still not quite as accurate as required here. These typically offer precision in the microsecond (µs) to low nanosecond range, and they cost around $1,500 to $10,000 depending on the model.
For a clock to be accurate to within 33.4 ps, you would likely need an optical atomic clock or another similarly advanced system. These could range from $500,000 to several million dollars, depending on the precision required, calibration, and application. In practical terms, achieving this level of precision is usually part of a highly specialized and controlled environment, like those used in national time-keeping institutions or for advanced GPS systems.
So, even accounting for the atmosphere at 100 feet above sea level, the timing accuracy required for 1 cm positioning precision remains around **33.4 picoseconds**.
Music volume too loud sir
Noted..
Thanks
No problem