When Anna said "there's a water proof chamber in every Arendelle boat" I audibly gasped because I thought they were going to open some panic room like chamber and reveal the parents' skeletons
When they entered the boat my friend was like "are they gonna fight skeletons" and I was like "yes! please make them fight their parents skeletons" and the fact that in that moment that felt possible reflects how much like a D&D campaign this movie feels like.
Elsa's big self-actualization moment is literally that scene from Avatar where Zuko parodies Uncle, "You must look within yourself, to free yourself from your other self. Only then, will your true self, reveal itself" But like. 100% serious.
You made me wanna rewatch Avatar again. I already missed it during the movie when they introduced all that Water, Earth, Fire and Air stuff. It got me hell distracted and took me out of the movie, even though featuring elements in stories has been a thing since times of old.
The story I want is about Kristof's parents. The ones who dressed their child in lovely little clothes and carved him a cunning tiny sleigh and gave him a young reindeer to tend to...and then lost him forever to the rock trolls, who, instead of guiding him back to his people, kidnap him and raise him as their own.
Honestly that would be so good. Tbh the rock trolls have always come off as creepy to me. I definitely thought they were going to be like the surprise villain or something
pghbekka Kristoff was based on Saami people and our gátki was his outfit, but there was not proper involvement with Saami for the first film. I was surprised to see that they did not show his back story but I think Disney was trying to progress rather than tie up loose ends, though a bit disappointing.
That could make a great prequel! They should make it about him and his life growing up with the trolls and explain what happened with his parents. Great idea!
Obsessed with how every time jenny does a rewrite for a franchise instalment, she is sure to liberally address the various merchandising opportunities it could present
I think it's important to drive home the point that her suggestions aren't "This is the story I would've liked to see," they are "This would've been a better story, and you executives should feel bad that you didn't do that, dummies."
I actually loved that song so much because it didnt fix everything! They showed the 'one step at a time, can't look too far ahead' mentality of grief so so well! Shame they didn't bother dealing with Anna's emotions after that lmao
Honestly I had to put the movie on pause and go to my room for a minute, lol (I just saw it last weekend). I... my mom has cancer, and since we’re a close family and she’s my best friend, it’s terrible. She’s not going to make it. It may be a few years, but it’s... basically a long goodbye. I’m also ill, have been since I was 12, and will be until I die. My life feels pretty empty. If I didn’t have my family, no one would realize if I simply disappeared. So... I was in that headspace, and then I heard Do the Next Right Thing. Oof. It was pretty rough. I don’t have a lot of power in my life and I’m pretty stuck. I just have to do the best I can, which often feels pretty pathetic and not nearly enough. I’ve not gotten to talk to my mom a lot since her diagnosis, but it felt like one of her lessons. I’ve watched her fight her illness she had even before the cancer, since I was a little girl. And I saw her fight it really hard. Because of that, I’ve always tried to do my best as a way to honor her, to be like her. I was watching this with just my Dad, because she can’t really sit up or stay awake for a movie, and I heard that song. I really wish there wasn’t a shortage of Kleenex in our area, because it took a minute to get control of myself and go back in there. Friggin kid’s movie with a snowman and fire salamander and reindeer making me cry. 🤦🏻♀️
"frozen 2 ends with elsa embracing her powers, leaving behind everyone she knows and loves, and going to become a glamorous, bedazzled hermit horse girl in the forest"
@@rocketspunch7632 ikr? shes by far the happiest when shes alone and able to do play around and do insane shit with her powers. i think ana's a great choice for queen, too.
Honestly, I would have loved if the film had played Kristoff's insecurities seriously instead of as a joke. As Jenny says, Anna loves her sister a lot more than him--which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it makes sense that this would drive a wedge between them.
Wholeheartedly agree. I know all too well how it's like to have an insecurity like that. It'd have been an even better lesson for young boys watching if they delved deeper into how Kristoff was to overcome it and understand Anna's priorities.
That would have been a mature development to their relationship, since family ties can become an issue in any relationship, no matter how strong. And would have created a nice balance against the "I love my prince/princess and he/she is all I need to feel like my life is full and perfect" perspective that has dominated so many classic Disney films.
Legit, if you check out one of the cut songs where Kristoff proposes at the beginning of the movie and some of the cut scenes that shine a light on the fact that Kristoff HATED being a noble in the kingdom, we would have had that as a reality.
I almost would have liked to see his concerns somewhat justified. Hear me out here -- the first movie shows Elsa's character flaw being her fear, driving her to push everyone away, but it also shows Anna's fear making her . . . well . . . pretty needy and desperate. So I think Frozen 2 was trying to portray this dynamic, with Anna constantly clinging to and smothering Elsa, but heartbreakingly enough they choose to resolve this by having Elsa just push her away again (like, why can't they just let sisters have a healthy relationship?) Meanwhile, Kristof's main quality in the first movie was the voice of reason. He's not putting on a show -- in fact, he's barely civil, and he calls Anna out for being so naive in falling for Hans' polished facade overnight. So why does he get relegated to posing dramatically with butterflies for this movie? Why doesn't he get to honestly discuss his feelings with Anna? Why doesn't Anna get to learn to have a tiny bit of faith in her sister, so the happy story we're left with isn't *free yourself from the constraints of loved ones -- they will never truly understand you?*
This movie was all animation, no story. The animation was so whimsical and it had me. But whenever I think too much about the movie, it makes my head hurt
i kinda saw it as her surrounding herself with those who are more like her rather than isolation- and jenny did mention elsa still occasionally returning to arendelle too, haha
@@fusetunes no. this movie definitely tell you if you are different you should hear voice in your head and isolate yourself rather with people who already loved you. It's stupid message. The theme of this movie contradicted each other. First we learn Elsa will lose herself if she went to far. But at the end, she kick Anna, find that sound all by herself find the truth and just get frozen without reason. We learn every step they made will have consequence. Even if it's the right thing to do. but then nothing really happen in this movie. They are just learn about their parents past, unleash magic forest with dangerous magical creature. And Elsa throw away her throne just to be a shepherd for this dangerous magical creature. What the hell Disney. I can't believe is this same studio who made Tangled and Brave.
@@lautaroroldanpizzorno7494 idk man he was like 5 and clearly at home with the other ice miners they're all just working while he messes around and they seem used to him, plus he's wearing a cute lil baby version of their clothes and has a little sleigh that somebody must have made for him recently so I assumed he had a community that cared for him, and the trolls just kept him without a thought even though, again, he's clearly healthy and cared for and he didn't ask for their help. Seems so shady to me, I always expected them to be the twist villain
So to you, going on a selfish power trip with no stepback on good, bad, rules, limits and consequences is "be yourself", but trully embracing yourself and everything you are despite the expectations of your close ones is "being weird, stop being weird you weirdo". Gotcha.
@@AcetylsaliciIique In the first movie, Elsa learns that she can become free and be herself by having the people arround her accept her. In the sequel she's pretty much actively rewarded for pushing Anna and the others away, but i guess they keep in contact so honestly what even is the point.
@@thanatoast The point is to fulfilled in who you are. The first movie solved Elsa's power problem, but none of her deepr psychological problems. She's still depressive, she's still loss. And it's true : a loving, caring support system is sadly not enough. Frozen 2 makes that abundantly clear at the beginning of the movie showing that despite all the efforts of the people around her, Elsa is just not comfortable and happy in this life. To be fair, I do not like either how the scene where Elsa pushes back Anna and Olaf fits in the movie : indeed the movie shows her as being right to do so. It fits in Anna's (learning to be stop be so overprotective) story but not really in Elsa's. I'd say the point is to show Elsa makes all the same decisions as in the first movie, but this time it's out of love and introspecting, not out of fear and rejection, so it's good. But still, Elsa's ending in Show Yourself is absolutely incredible and the best possible ending for her character. Seeing her be taken aback by just how fulfilling it is to finally see yourself completely. The pure happiness in her will always warm my heart, and I think that having this song, this *moment* in their life will help a lot of people growing up who may struggle with identity.
Some of the outtake songs on the soundtrack actually tell a much more rounded story than the one we got in my opinion, especially Anna's first song "Home" has her singing about how she loves Arendelle and her people and wants to do more for them, and Kristoff's alternate song "Get This Right" ends with Anna proposing to HIM which is so much more wholesome and endearing than what we got in the movie, where she either ignores him, yells at him or forgets he exists. I did enjoy this movie but there really is a lot of wasted potential here. I feel like whatever the original story was got rearranged and cut to the point that it's basically unrecognisable now.
Anna proposing to him does sound endearing, but I don't think it would match with what they set up for him in the movie. If he didn't end up proposing in the end, finally achieve the confidence to tell Anna how he feels, that practically makes all his previous attempts moot and his character really would have been useless with nothing to do or to accomplish.
@@smeckledorffed1120 But with Eugene it was really build up to be about all his insecurities because he's a freaking orphan turned thief who was so down with himself he built himself a fake thief persona. He wasn't just nervous, he had issues. Meanwhile Kristoff in Frozen was pretty chill? Like, I remember zero conflict about him being a commoner and Anna being a princess? So those two proposals would have played out very differently.
I was so sure Ana and Elsa would meet an Autumn girl in this movie since I saw them being attacked by the wind in the trailer. It just makes so much sense to introduce one magical character for each season and Else being the Winter one, but I guess they didn't want to go that way.
Trailers for anything frozen related always seem to be misleading. I remember hating frozen as a kid because the trailer made me think Anna would have fire powers. (Maybe I was just a dumb kid, but my friends thought the same thing.)
I also adore the fact this country keeps sending out it's only leaders to these adventures and no one seems concerned. King and queen both leave their country to find answers for the daughter. Queen runs from kingdom. Second in line just follows after he into the wilderness. Both queen and princess both leave the country unprotected to wander into a dreaded cursed forest.
Let’s not forget that they just do the spin and point method to figure out temporary leaders. Like they dont have advisors or some court officials. The fucking rock people? Really?
I mean, in times of war, kings used to lead the battle. Then they were there, but at a safer distance. They’d leave regents in place all the time. Usually the Queen consort, the heir, or a prominent figure close to the king. It doesn’t make sense for both to go with no thought to continuity of government, but it’s like, not unheard of. They’ve gone way past logic farther than that before. 😅
My headcanon is that they’re all secretly anti-royalist and hope the royal bloodline perishes because they’re all idiots, but to no avail as they have amazing plot armour.
@@hotnindza No Leeloo is the fifth element. How do people think it's love? Love is the reason for saving humanity but Leeloo is the fifth element. It's explicitly stated so very clearly. It fucking baffles me.
I thought that the 5th element is human, which was supposed to represent the fact that humans are part of the nature and we are partially responsible for the climate change.
Eh, I'm not sure I believe her powers are "ice". I think her powers are transformation. When you're depressed and scared, all you can do is freeze shit because condensing into a safe hard cold ball is the only way she knows how to be safe. Also when your little and live in not-Norway, maybe ice is the first thing you notice transforming in a magically seeming way, so that's what you play with when you are six. Maybe she just likes it because snow is beautiful and stable fire is too hard to control, always changing. Later, as an adult, she's only just coming to realize that she can do more than freeze things after suppressing her powers for most of her life. In the first movie, she realizes she can imbue other things (her ice monsters and snow people) with life, the ultimate transforming force and the purest form of her power. Then, at the end, she realizes she can also transform things from ice to flowing, living things. She can control plants too, we see her growing flowers and restoring all the green plants that would have been killed by the several days of deep cold snow. Honestly, we are still in book one Avatar territory as far as Elsa is concerned. She clearly has power over fire, since heating and cooling things is literally fire (and also she strait up controls the fire lizard), she's just never gone there. Her snowkinesis is just wind, water and ice are a duh, and earth is covered in the plant shit she does as an after thought. All her powers are filtered through ice not because it has to be, but because Elsa believes that's how they work. Her powers are still freaking *growing*. Shes just a goddess of life/transformation. Strait up.
The singing Elsa hears also sounds like the Dies Irae, a motif that composers usually use to signify death, so that could’ve been some cool musical foreshadowing that she was being tricked.
The "Into the Unknown: Making of Frozen 2" documentary pretty much confirms that Jenny Nicholson's analysis is spot on. The drinking game with the documentary is to drink every time someone questions the motivations/reasoning of the characters in Frozen 2 and Jennifer Lee dismisses it by saying, "You guys are overthinking it" and everyone in the room goes quiet. Combined with the schedule pressure, Frozen 2 ends up a melting ice cream of a mess.
She was very clear that this movie was being made to please little kids, which is why they made a massive rewrite after the screening , which adults like but kids didn't get. That's why the Broadway musical is so shitty...she wrote a $200/ticket performance for small children.
@@WhistleAndSnap Jennifer Lee was also writer/director of the original Frozen, which I quite liked. Something went funky with Frozen II, though. I think Lee just had a hard time balancing the different wants and voices from inside of Disney, whereas she had more freedom with the original Frozen (too much money was at stake for Frozen II, so more people were involved.) That's my guess at least.
@@DoomGoober I think the biggest problem with 'Frozen II' was that, Disney wanted to make the sequel due to the first movie's unexpected success, and the filmmakers had to do everything they can to make a story that's worthy of a feature-length sequel... in other words, the pressure was on, and maybe they were a little rushed.
The horse killed her parents? I thought it was just general ocean, not necessarily the water spirit, but the water spirit brought the ship over for them
Kumon P I mean yeah but we actually saw it physically try to drown Elsa. With the parents, the ocean just destroyed their boat. Idk why it tried to drown Elsa though. A lot of the movie makes little sense.
I had mixed feelings about the rumor going around that Splash Mountain might become a Frozen-branded ride, but if they turn it into a murder canoe experience, I am all for it.
Splash mountain is dying in popularity. I spent this weekend at disneyworld and splash mountain was the one ride that ALL DAY didn’t have a long wait. All day.
That's for sure. I mean if your going going to focus on new characters, give them the time to develop and the characters we do know ( Anna and Olaf) have them with less time than the first movie.
Frozen: Elsa tries to run away from her family, discovers she really needs them in her life. Frozen 2: Elsa tries to stay with her family, discovers she really needs to be somewhere else.
Wreck-It Ralph: Don't go Turbo... that's bad! Ralph Breaks the Internet: Yeah, Go Turbo... do what you want. Disney sequels have a trend of being contradictory and inconsistent.
If there were more fire salamanders and water horses and Gales, then it would make sense that they’re beings that are manifested from the spirits (like Olaf and Marshmallow) rather than the spirits themselves.
"Frozen" spin-off movies about the other elements: "Blown" (a magical girl who controls the wind) "Dirty" (a magical girl who controls the earth) "Burnt" (a magical girl who controls fire)
As someone who was a little girl when Frozen 1 came out, I can say that little girls would EAT UP Anna with fire powers! (Ok, technically just a fire lizard familiar, but close enough to be cool and marketable)
yes! Anna has an unhealthy dependency on her sister, and it would be cool for overcoming that to be her arc. With their boundries clear, the sisters could strengthen their relationship even more. I like everything Jenny said about the rewrite, they should've done that *clap clap*
Man. I was so certain where you were going with Villainess was that she claims to be the fifth element, but she is actually a witch/spirit who turned all the other elements into animals. And somehow in so doing, she takes their element for herself. So she appears to have control over all elements because she's the last one, but in reality, she's taking the powers for herself. Maybe the reason they're animals but not outright dead is that the power she gains from them needs to be recharged, basically. Maybe the reason we never see the wind animal is that she's been drawing on their essence this whole time to control the wind to fool Elsa - and they are actually held prisoner somewhere. Also, this is why Charmander is so scared of her - she's drawn on their fire many times before. So the end game for her with Elsa is for her to steal a chunk of Elsa's spirit and turn her into an animal, too. This is also why all the elements tear the kingdom apart - that was Villainess using her power to force Elsa out of her home and to her. And then after Villainess is defeated, the essence returns to all the animals and they become magical girls again. THAT WAY YOU GET CUTE ANIMAL MERCH AAAANNNND MAGICAL GIRL MERCH SO YOU MAKE ALL OF THE MONEY!!!
@@squashfei8907I don't know why but I thought you meant like the squirrel from Ice Age at first, which would be an incredibly brave direction to take and I'd love to see it.
yeah when i spoiled for myself that Elsa was going to leave them behind and stay in the forest, i felt like it was so strange because the entire first film was about how you shouldnt be alone, your family loves you
Elsa's literally a 5 minute water horse ride away from Arendelle and writes to Anna on the regular. Not really the same thing as completely isolating yourself because your parents are assholes.
the most disappointing thing is that there were no other human characters that controlled the other elements.. they could've made like, a cool fire girl and honestly sell many more toys than just having a salamander plushie
Yes this movie was the most boring story I have seen or heard of that involves the four elements. And ocnsidering that my favorite character of all time was inthis film, well a phantom version of her anyway, they could've at least tried to do something, but they didn't.
What I always wanted was for Anna to be Winter and Rapunzel to be Spring (her magic looks THE SAME in animation and she is canon in the same universe at the same time as she and Eugene appear at Elsa's coronation), and for Anna to have to go off and find the princesses of Fall and Spring, hopefully in India and Japan or some such, to get some more diversity in there.
Yeah, that would have been awesome for them to have different magical girls like Elsa of all the different elements...but they didn't. The spirits are all just random things like a salamander, earth giants, a water horse...and it's weird. Magical girls who have the different powers of the elements would have been a lot cooler and they could make more cute merchandise with all those new characters that people would love. :p And Elsa would know she's not alone. Or they could have just had Anna discover somehow that she has fire magic (pink fire like the lizard) while Elsa has ice, which is what I wanted. So they could give something to Anna's character too that would be cool, and not just Elsa- or throwing Anna a bone like she says. lol Anna should have something too, and Anna was born on the Summer solstice while Elsa was born on the Winter solstice so it'd kind of make sense too that they both get powers.
I scrolled down upon seeing that moment literally to find this comment and I couldn't have asked for a version of this comment more appropriate the energy of this channel. Thank you.
My ending- -Arendelle is destroyed. I hate when two bad things are going to happen, and the main characters are like “we can only fix one” but in actuality, both get fixed. I don’t think it teaches a good lesson about life and all that. Like, bad things happen. It isn’t always the end of the world. Same reason I didn’t like Ant Man and the Wasp -The northern people help rebuild Arendelle, cementing the trust and connection -This gives Anna a chance to prove that she is put together and confident enough to lead. -Elsa realizes that she is happier with the northerners, would rather freely explore her powers, and can trust Anna to lead the kingdom herself. (Even though to me, Anna was never someone I thought could be the queen)
Arendelle not being destroyed was the one thing that really surprised me, I was expecting at least one consequence to be semi-permanent... and yeah I figured if it was destroyed they would just rebuild it and Anna would get to prove herself as queen; they even had that shot in Some Things Never Change of Anna walking through the frame of a house that's being built, idk it just seemed like a bit of foreshadowing
Great fix! Arendelle being fine also really irked me. Reminded me of Pocahontas: “we did terrible things to these native people but will not suffer any consequences because we shouldn’t fight :)”
I read a really good post about how it would have made things worse if Arendelle had been destroyed - despite it not being destroyed seeming like the bad move originally; but after reading this post it makes a lot more sense.
So, I first watched Frozen 2 on a client’s Disney + account. I’m a pet sitter and often spend upwards of a week at my clients house. This client had a camera in the living room to watch the dogs while they’re away in their daily lives, and they allow me to turn the camera while I’m there, but this was the first time I sat for them. So I’m sat on their couch, pmsing horribly, and absolutely ugly SOBBING at Frozen 2, it was hitting me in all the feelings. And then I get a text, from my client, asking if I’m okay. They’d checked the camera just out of habit, and caught me mid sob. They still hire me, so I guess it didn’t seem to weird to them but I’m still a lil embarrassed when they call me to sit for them.
I know this is a two year-old comment and all, but I just wanted to say-- if I needed to hire a pet sitter, I'd /absolutely/ want the one who sobs while watching Frozen 2. If you're tender-hearted enough to cry at a Disney movie, then I'm gonna assume that my pets are safe and well-pampered in your care. You can't fake that level of empathy!
@@Elven_Gamer i honestly want to believe people in hollywood are capable of writing scripts and plots that actually make sense, but they're always instructed to write for 160% or 175% that 60-80% of which can be cut depending on the cost / delays / unsatisfactory contracted work / voice work or characters that have to be thrown out due to an actor dying or becoming icky for the production company to be attached to and that's how you keep getting these absolute messes, especially especially in SEQUELS
He's not important. Olaf only exists for Anna to have someone to talk to, which they already had in Kristoff but the snowman will sell more toys than a guy with a reindeer.
@@sophieleitontoomey2372 It took me all this time and your comment to look back and realize that Indiana Jones is useless in his own movies. I feel betrayed.
I feel like Anna should've been the 5th spirit, however, she cannot *physically* control the other elements, she can *emotionally* control them. She was able to make her sister calm down and restore everything to normal in the first movie by sacrificing herself, she made her sister grieve and feel sorrow, and realize how much she loved her family. Why not expand on that by making it an actual thing that comes naturally to her, empathy and being able to emotionally reach out to others? It would explain why, though Elsa can literally create and control ice, Anna is just a bubbly, happy, emotional girl that just wants people to get along. She literally controls the other elements by figuring out what she can do to help them. Disney, listen, you can actually make it "friendship saves the day" bullshit and that would fit with her character. It can even show that she always got along better with others including animals throughout her life, that when she was out of control, her friends understood her and reacted the same way. That way, at the end of the movie, Anna ascends the throne because she has a better handle on taking care of people.
I remember watching it and being *so* disappointed that the other elements were not more magical girls. Like, there was so much they could have done with that imo and it would have been much more interesting for the movie
Also the song that goes "some things never change" while contradicting every lyrics with what's going on screen made that whole song feel really ominous to me, so I also thought somebody would die
Saw frozen two with a guy as a date. While Elsa and Olaf “died” a couple sitting next to us started VIOLENTLY making out. My date and I nearly lost our shit laughing because why the hell did they decide THAT was the time??? Like what???
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed how weird the spirits were. I pointed it out to my brother and he didn't really get why I was confused by it. Imo they should've done a fantasy creature for each spirit, so the kelpie water horse works. For fire, they could turn the lizard into a dragon and for earth they could just make it so there's one giant? For wind, idk, a griffin? A thunderbird? Not sure, but I think they could've done better than the actual wind
I think the idea of the spirits being the elements itself is pretty good but i just wish they would've been consistent. The water spirit is made of water but likes the shape of a horse most, the wind spirit is just wind, but the earthand fire spirits are physical forms. The earth/stone spirit could've just been everywhere like the wind or shape into different forms like water. Same with fire, that one would've been a bit harder since moving fire would just burn everything but.. it's a fictional spirit, it just not burn anything on command. Or it could be presented by heat or smth. If they had a physical spirit for wind (maybe a bird) it would've been consistent too, making Elsa the true water spirit. Or they could've used the seasons instead of the elements. There are soo many good ideas for a sequel, so many great backstories and explanations, they could've built an amazing world. Instead they just this.. whatever this is.
If we're keeping up the elemental creatures having a real world mythology link (kelbi for water horse, dragon for fire lizard, golem for... well, golems), they could use the kamaitachi, which is like a Japanese weasel that rides around on dust devils and cuts people in a way that doesn't hurt or bleed. So yeah, wind weasel. That's the best I got.
There are mythological Salamander fire spirits, so that one works for the physical form. No Dragons needed. But a physicsl kelpie, and maybe thunder bird, and some rock spirit animal would have been much better and more consistent.
My thought is this! So the glacier is sort of alluded to as the frozen heart in the opening of the first film. Elsa "dies" once she reaches the heart of the glacier that is warned about in that opening song. It also says "Ice has a magic that can't be controlled". And while in the first film this was obviously referring to Elsa, on a larger realm, if we focus on all the spirits, it is exactly this uncontrollable magic that comes from Ahotallan. And we hardly see ice in Arendelle, so he would have had to come from the north. Kristoff, especially in the first film, shares a lot of wardrobe similarities with the Northuldra people in the second. Then he has Sven, and reindeer are not really seen in Arendelle but seem to be a staple part of the culture of the Northuldra. We also know that he lost his family when he was young, presumably because he got left behind. And, he developed a relationship with the trolls, who seem to be the only magical thing that managed to make it out of the enchanted forest before it was trapped in by fog. So my theory is that Kristoff and Rider got along so well because they're somehow related. Kristoff is from Northuldra, or of the Northuldra people, and his circumstance getting lost while mining ice when he was really young is the reason why he made his way to Arendelle. I mean, there are a few things that would have to be better explained, but I think he definitely has way more similarities with the Northuldra than the Arendellians.
"So you know how Frozen kind of ended on a solid happily ever after?" "Right but then money happened." "But then money happened." - Frozen 2 Pitch meeting.
I love that the clear conflict is the missing artefact but the focus will be the pregnancy. Hopefully our Clue-like heist mystery will be intercut with joyful baby related excursions, ultrasounds, and baby showers.
Me: Why is youtube recommending me Daphne from Scooby Doo? >30 mins later Me: You know, Daphne makes a great point, and I like her version of Frozen 2 a lot better
all i could think about during elsa’s final song is that she’s superman and her mom is jor-el and the glacier is her fortress of solitude. they really put in a big floating mom head in that scene and expected me to not notice the parallels
right?? i HATED it, and i know hate is a strong word, but listen. it was so frustrating and awkward. it wasn't established enough, Anna had no reason to think Kristoff would break up with her so it just seemed forced and it wasn't even funny. i liked kristoff's song, it was funny, but i wish they'd had more interactions and growth. like, what if Anna was all jittery and nervous around him because she was going to propose too?? that's just a random idea i just had, but anyway, my point still stands, this comment is long and unnecessary but i have really strong opinions about that dumb trope lmao
I mean, they dodged the whole 'Elsa is a queen to the Northuldra' only to make it 'Elsa is a goddess to the Northuldra because they literally worship the spirits'
At some point the last person to remember you will die... JUST KIDDING!! Hahahahahaha _Facebook will remember you forever....but only the embarrassing things_
THANKYOU, I left the theatre feeling so confused about what I felt. I was captivated with how beautiful the movie looked, but during the entire viewing experience I couldn’t help but feel empty and as if something was wrong/missing. This perfectly put into words what I felt.
"And ultimately you're coming up on the deadline and just scrambling to fit whatever you have into some semblance of a movie." In fairness, this is pretty much exactly how the original Frozen was made.
Yes, I agree. And that was kind of how Casablanca was made - among other brilliant classics. So no excuses for crap storytelling that comes across as sludge from a theme food processor. : P
This was the only thing I could think about for the whole movie. Especially during the over-the-shoulder shots, I couldn't pay attention to the story because I was just trying to figure out where her hair ended. It starts on each side of her head but is somehow still one continuous braid.
@@alaraplatt8104 Cute Girls Hairstyles did a tutorial for Anna's hair, and they did two braids and overlapped them in a way that made it look like one.
On the ominous voice calling Elsa (that's Aurora btw cause she's great), she's singing the beginning of the Dies Irae, a really old and hugely influential song that usually symbolizes danger and, since it's a funeral song, death. So with this, the nokk/kelpie/water horse usually drowning their riders, Elsa's siren song reference, literally every sign is pointing to this Disney princess dying at sea. Honestly, kinda disappointed she didn't actually kick it...I mean, there's still time I guess.
“Okay, maybe Elsa is water and there are different magical girls for each element and they can make a bunch of pretty dolls” Someone hire this girl at DISNEY
I think they should've gone for seasons instead of elements - winter, spring, summar, fall, but also rainy and dry perhaps (for the southern hemisphere viewers)
@@snarkykryptonite4768 i've thought the same thing about this "straight" thing since they were shoved down my throat in every disney movie ever. let's just raise children as entirely loveless beings until they reach the sensible age of sixteen. or is that too young? eighteen? twenty one?
The outfits were my favorite part of the movie. Well are so well designed and detailed. They are so well made, both by the designers and the animators. Just the little details and additions that you never saw in a Disney movie before, even the previous movie the outfits were fairly basic, simple design, princess dresses. Especially Anna's travel outfit. The layers, embroidery, seams, edging, clasps and brooches, ect. I mean, they were like real clothes. I want to wear it and cosplay so much.
I dont know if this is what you were implying but I now really want a YA urban fantasy story retelling mythical beasts as just like. toddlers who REALLY want to show you a cool rock. a kelpie who came to me on the shores or a foggy lake brought me to a log that looked like an old man, and I just had to nod and seem enthused. 2/5 stars the log did not look like an old man
This movie felt so much like it was working up to Elsa being gay or just fully accepting herself, the vibes were there, the music, literally everything and then it's like. its ur dead mom
I really don't know where people get this idea from that Elsa is gay. Elsa expressed interest in no-one throughout both films, which is much closer to asexuality. More importantly though is that her arc had nothing to do with romance at all. To add that would muddy the themes by making the film about too many things at once. Giving her a partner would also take away an important distinction she has between herself and Anna as well as adhering to the Bad Writer's Manifesto that all main characters need love interests in the sequels.
@@wheeliebin1791 Ehhh. I doubt Elsa saying a girl looks cute would muddy anything, nor would it make her the same as Anna, or require getting a girlfriend. It's Disney. I don't think they even know how that works. As for folks hoping Elsa would be Ace, Bi, Gay, etc, I think it's _because_ Elsa has no established interest in anyone - it would be a nice touch to sneak a little not-straight in there. It doesn't require a whole romance plot. Just a line or expression to indicate a moment of interest in someone other than a man. She could also be Aromantic & continue not dating or wanting to date anyone, while making Aro people happy to be acknowledged in a major film. Plus Elsa's whole entire thing is being born different, hating herself and trying to hide it because that's what her parents wanted, and then deciding to just...not do that one day. She leaves town, tries out a new look, and sings about being so excited to finally be herself and nobody's around to judge her for it. Frozen 2: Elsa feels restless and still out of place in a way she can't put her finger on. She is wooed by a mysterious unknown entity, who she is determined to meet. She's still 200% all about finding her own identity/learning to love herself and the ways in which she is different from the rest of the family. That's going to resonate with a LOT of Queer folks, no matter what. A 10-second scene to confirm all those "gay allegory" vibes would mean the world to folks and take nothing away from the story. Frozen is not a masterpiece of originality or complex narratives. It's kind of a hot mess in glitter heels, which _also_ resonates with a more specific portion of the LGBTQ+ community. The real question is "Why not?" (PS: please don't forget, *Asexual* people DO date, if they're interested in somebody. They're less motivated by sex, is all. *Aromantic* people can also date TBH, they just don't experience romantic attachment the same way, and they're not driven to seek out a relationship. An Aromantic person may be very sexually attracted to other people, though. There's overlap and some folks are both, but they're not interchangeable identities.)
@@Whatlander You make some good points, but you're making it sound like canon _doesn't_ deliver good rep, you're listing asexuality and aromanticism among the things that could be represented but not acknowledging that that's exactly what we get. Which makes it seem like that's not enough somehow, like that's a lesser form of representation than having her show interest in a girl. Please just let us keep our aro princess.
@@woodfur00 but it would mean something more if she was acknowledged as aro--just not giving her a romantic subplot is not the same thing as representation. u dont have an aro princess
things that were never explained or annoyed me about the movie: -the salamander had no purpose to be in the film except to sell toys. -most of the songs were reprise-seeming or very close to the original frozen -the dude that kristoff talks to before his solo song is built up like he will matter in the movie or be kristoff's brother/good friend, but is never really seen again -they don't do a good job at establishing that ana is fit to run a kingdom. like elsa trained her whole life, but ana just sorta made her own fun and did whatever & even after elsa stopped hiding, ana took the backseat and elsa went all hardcore leader. anna is better as a kingdom embassador or something, not a literal leader. -same thing as the dude who talks to kristoff, what was that girl who had a deep convo w elsa halfway thru???? cause we don't really see her again after that. what was her purpose?? (there are more things but im forgetting them at the moment)
I mean I did go "ok *Elsa* shouldn't be leader" after she almost got her sister killed multiple times for no good reason in the movie, showing she's as impulsive as she was in the first movie. There was a lot of "I know best" that honestly should have lead to Elsa failing her quest. Anna meanwhile, for her naivety in the first movie, actually seems the most level headed of our main cast. In this movie we see she's basically shed that naivety, and grown up, unlike everyone but maybe Olaf.
@@RenaDeles true. the song she has w olaf in the beginning showed how much she matured while still keeping w the 'for the first time in forever' thing she had going on. but elsa was still trained from birth to be a queen while ana was at the side, not being taught those things. and kristoff is no help as he knows nothing about palace stuff till he meets ana which is a deviation from other disney movies where maybe cinderella's prince or snow whites or sleeping beautys could have helped her if she didn't know anything cause they were raised with leading a kingdom in mind. basically what im saying is it would have made much more sense for ana to be the one living in the woods running some ice thing w kristoff & sven and elsa to be running the kingdom
@@chrisbcpack it's true Anna likely doesn't have the same statecraft training (though I would assume she has SOME, as Elsa's only heir for so long. You need something in case your weirdo princess never comes out of her room), and yeah honestly unlike Eugene who seems very ready to be royal consort, for Rapunzel also not having her statecraft down (but at least having her parents still ruling, so she's got time), Anna and Kristoph would prob be happier just running their own little ice business. But I guess how else can Elsa become a crazy cat lady, going wild with her avatar powers and granting life left and right. ( The after credits was hilarious, but also made me even more worried about Elsa. Maybe someone needs to give her the be equivalent of Frankenstein, because I don't think she's ready to be mom to *that many* living things.)
in a weird way your script doctor has a lot in common with the Frozen storyline from Once Upon a Time. They had this character Ingrid come in and meet Anna and Elsa and Elsa's all excited because Ingrid also has ice powers because Ingrid is Anna and Elsa's long lost aunt. But Anna is skeptical of Ingrid and knows that she's up to something fishy including Elsa. It was a pretty good story until it got all tangled up in all the other storylines that OUAT tried to cram into a half-season.
i loved the movie like “vibe” wise with the wholesome family moments and i thought olaf was much more likable in this movie but watching it from a critical standpoint it’s so choppy and forced and ugh disappointing
“At least they have their parents! *Their parents are dead.”* “Alas, change mocks us with her beauty.” “Anna? Elsa? Samantha? .... Who’s Samantha? I don’t even *know* a Samantha?” *giggle snorts* I loved Olaf in this. 😅 I was here for it. 😂 I do think some of his “I’m growing up! That means change! But it’s okay! Don’t be scared!” stuff was preetttyyyy heavy handed though. It was annoying and repetitive. I feel like even for little kids, they knocked them over the head with it. I don’t blame Olaf for that. That was the studio. 🙃
Can we talk about how the solution to the curse on the forest is, “Dam bad, destroy dam,” and this is accomplished by Anna tricking the earth giants into destroying it for her, which implies that it could have been destroyed at any time before all this happened and they just didn’t for no reason. I mean it’s not like the Arendelle soldiers can do anything to stop them. So it kind of suggests the spirits could have solved this all along but didn’t, just because, and the forest people also didn’t solve this just because. Like the forest people never once thought maybe we should wreck the dam? And if we can’t because of the soldiers what about something the soldiers can’t do shit to like the spirits?
According to the movie itself, all of these spirits were asleep the whole time. But that somewhat contradicts with the Woodland people being so familiar with them and figuring out a way to hide quickly.
But it wasn't a problem for the elements to solve. Humans caused this problem and humans had to fix it. The entire issue here was in regards to humans upsetting the balance between them and nature. The dam was hurting the people of Northundra but it wasn't really hurting the spirits. Prior to the dam, the people and the elements were united. The dam was built due to fear between two groups of humans (which ultimately led to infighting) and that disharmony is what set the elements off. It's why Elsa, a human, is needed to act as a unifying force for the other four elements. Ultimately, the elements went "Okay, we're sealing the forest off until you get your shit together. We'll send this girl and boy off because they seem chill but the rest of you stay in here. When the girl and boy have kids, we'll throw a bit of magic into their kid, and hope that kid will come and fix your human issues. " Destroying the dam was a metaphor. It was the breaking of what represented fear and disharmony. If the elements destroyed it then it wouldn't have fixed the human's issues.
Except one group of humans was clearly in the wrong and the other was objectively not responsible for any wrongdoing and the spirits apparently had no problem with this. Also does not change the fact that humans tricked the earth giants into wrecking the dam for them which isn’t exactly humans fixing their own problem.
@@KrazyKelor One group WAS totally in the wrong. Doesn't mean that the harmony wasn't broken. And tricking the Earth Giants isn't literally destroying it solely themselves, no. But it's humans taking responsibility for its nefarious construction, the king's murderous ways of keeping its harm secret, and the initiative that led to its destruction. Like, did a stampede kill Mufasa? Sure. But it was a stampede initiated by Scar's direction of the hyenas. I would make the claim Scar was at fault for Mufasa's death even if he didn't literally do the killing. Same as Anna destroying the bridge even if she didn't literally pry the rocks out one by one.
I can imagine being the kid who always has to play Anna while my friend or sister would always dibs Elsa. I'd be impossibly salty about not being able to do much of anything while they'd say "and I freeze this, I freeze that, I create myself a snow puppy!"
Had a bossy friend in primary school. She was the chosen one. I was some mook that followed her. And whenever she felt like it she'd completely restructure the rules of the world or make everything that had happened no longer canon.
As someone who was very young when the first movie came out and was always Anna, it *is* very boring lol. Like, I learned to love her and all, but it was pretty boring to see all of my friends actually doing stuff and singing *the* song of the movies while I just standed there, watching lol
when i was younger i would play with my neighbors granddaughter in her yard, and after frozen came out she wanted to do a frozen roleplay. she wanted to be elsa so she could sing let it go, and when assigning everyone else parts, she made me play the rest of the characters. my little brother asked what part he got to play, and in complete seriousness, she said "you're the snow." i asked if he could be kristoff or something and she was adamant that he could only play the part of the snow... so his role was to lie on the ground... he tried to spin in a little flurry but she was like "SNOW DOESN'T MOVE" and continued on singing so 😅 i bet he knows how that feels (in hindsight i definitely should've been more assertive to make sure he got a part, but to be honest i was pretty afraid of her grandma who was watching us, so it was a bit intimidating to upset her)
It's bizarre to me that two Disney movies came out back to back (Wreck-it Ralph 2, and Frozen 2) where they had iconic duos who were ultimately broken up at the end of the film. Almost as if they planned to have a third movie to 'resolve' that... but there was no indication there was anything else to resolve at the end of either of those films. The idea that the scripts for either film were in flux, as they were making them, makes a lot of sense. I also really like your idea of giving Anna the Fire Lizard. It was also the cutest thing in the film for me, by far. Also, giving Elsa all the powers would be great for Kingdom Hearts 4 or whatever. Have Elsa team up with Sora and the gang, and just have Elsa wreck all kinds of face on all the Heartless with her super elemental powers.
I feel like there's a fine line between suggesting a change to the story and just a really good fanfic that Jenny is definitely crossing, but I love it.
Sometimes fans write better stories than canon. See a whole lot of Devil May Cry fanfics (excluding stuff like those with reader-insert characters) for example.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
When Anna said "there's a water proof chamber in every Arendelle boat" I audibly gasped because I thought they were going to open some panic room like chamber and reveal the parents' skeletons
When they entered the boat my friend was like "are they gonna fight skeletons" and I was like "yes! please make them fight their parents skeletons" and the fact that in that moment that felt possible reflects how much like a D&D campaign this movie feels like.
that's what I thought too ngl I was kind of excited
All I thought about was the black box from the Malaysia flight
@@PandaWithAJetpack which one?
@@PandaWithAJetpack HAHAHAHAHAHA
Elsa's big self-actualization moment is literally that scene from Avatar where Zuko parodies Uncle, "You must look within yourself, to free yourself from your other self. Only then, will your true self, reveal itself" But like. 100% serious.
I actually loved Frozen 2 but as a huge Avatar fan, I have to agree and this made me laugh so thank you
You made me wanna rewatch Avatar again. I already missed it during the movie when they introduced all that Water, Earth, Fire and Air stuff. It got me hell distracted and took me out of the movie, even though featuring elements in stories has been a thing since times of old.
Im laughing so much omg yessss
@
Nabilah Alshari Perfect 😂
This entire movie felt like a love letter to the last airbender
The story I want is about Kristof's parents. The ones who dressed their child in lovely little clothes and carved him a cunning tiny sleigh and gave him a young reindeer to tend to...and then lost him forever to the rock trolls, who, instead of guiding him back to his people, kidnap him and raise him as their own.
Honestly that would be so good. Tbh the rock trolls have always come off as creepy to me. I definitely thought they were going to be like the surprise villain or something
Cunning tiny sleigh 🥺
pghbekka Kristoff was based on Saami people and our gátki was his outfit, but there was not proper involvement with Saami for the first film. I was surprised to see that they did not show his back story but I think Disney was trying to progress rather than tie up loose ends, though a bit disappointing.
That could make a great prequel! They should make it about him and his life growing up with the trolls and explain what happened with his parents. Great idea!
Kristoff says in the first movie that before the rock trolls took him in, it was just him and Sven.
Obsessed with how every time jenny does a rewrite for a franchise instalment, she is sure to liberally address the various merchandising opportunities it could present
Because she wants to buy those things...
Like genuinely it's good strategy, she's clearly someone worth hiring!!!!
I think it's important to drive home the point that her suggestions aren't "This is the story I would've liked to see," they are "This would've been a better story, and you executives should feel bad that you didn't do that, dummies."
Anna's grief song was so frickin dark, the kids behind me were sobbing uncontrollably, real gasping kind of sobs
I actually loved that song so much because it didnt fix everything! They showed the 'one step at a time, can't look too far ahead' mentality of grief so so well!
Shame they didn't bother dealing with Anna's emotions after that lmao
Honestly I had to put the movie on pause and go to my room for a minute, lol (I just saw it last weekend). I... my mom has cancer, and since we’re a close family and she’s my best friend, it’s terrible. She’s not going to make it. It may be a few years, but it’s... basically a long goodbye.
I’m also ill, have been since I was 12, and will be until I die. My life feels pretty empty. If I didn’t have my family, no one would realize if I simply disappeared.
So... I was in that headspace, and then I heard Do the Next Right Thing. Oof. It was pretty rough. I don’t have a lot of power in my life and I’m pretty stuck. I just have to do the best I can, which often feels pretty pathetic and not nearly enough. I’ve not gotten to talk to my mom a lot since her diagnosis, but it felt like one of her lessons. I’ve watched her fight her illness she had even before the cancer, since I was a little girl. And I saw her fight it really hard. Because of that, I’ve always tried to do my best as a way to honor her, to be like her. I was watching this with just my Dad, because she can’t really sit up or stay awake for a movie, and I heard that song. I really wish there wasn’t a shortage of Kleenex in our area, because it took a minute to get control of myself and go back in there.
Friggin kid’s movie with a snowman and fire salamander and reindeer making me cry. 🤦🏻♀️
Probably because they didn't know Elsa and Olaf were coming back
@@eswan8900
They don't watch enough Disney movies to know about "Disney Death".
@@SunflowerSpotlight Stay strong, friend. Sorry that I don't have much to say to you, but I hope you where you belong in life.
“So what’s the message? That Elsa comes from a wealthy family that will support her as she takes a gap year.”
This broke me lol
mchikos Jenny is poetic
😋😂😄
Jenny is the same.
"frozen 2 ends with elsa embracing her powers, leaving behind everyone she knows and loves, and going to become a glamorous, bedazzled hermit horse girl in the forest"
Honestly, goals
isn’t this exactly what she wanted to do in the first movie lmaooo
didnt she,,,, do that in the first film
i wake up and boom im a rat yes but now with horse!
@@rocketspunch7632 ikr? shes by far the happiest when shes alone and able to do play around and do insane shit with her powers. i think ana's a great choice for queen, too.
“Elsa, do NOT use your ice powers on this lizard!!” -the best line in the script
-Jessy Pinkman: "okay?"
Giant Porg is like a cat that sees a spider moving on the ceiling
And now you're looking at the ceiling
He also looks like Big the Cat
I miss the giant porg laying sexily on its side on the bed.
@@RandomRiot He started getting freaky with Jenny, so she kicked him off the bed.
Porg knows what he did.
Honestly, I would have loved if the film had played Kristoff's insecurities seriously instead of as a joke. As Jenny says, Anna loves her sister a lot more than him--which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it makes sense that this would drive a wedge between them.
Wholeheartedly agree. I know all too well how it's like to have an insecurity like that. It'd have been an even better lesson for young boys watching if they delved deeper into how Kristoff was to overcome it and understand Anna's priorities.
That would have been a mature development to their relationship, since family ties can become an issue in any relationship, no matter how strong. And would have created a nice balance against the "I love my prince/princess and he/she is all I need to feel like my life is full and perfect" perspective that has dominated so many classic Disney films.
Legit, if you check out one of the cut songs where Kristoff proposes at the beginning of the movie and some of the cut scenes that shine a light on the fact that Kristoff HATED being a noble in the kingdom, we would have had that as a reality.
I almost would have liked to see his concerns somewhat justified.
Hear me out here -- the first movie shows Elsa's character flaw being her fear, driving her to push everyone away, but it also shows Anna's fear making her . . . well . . . pretty needy and desperate. So I think Frozen 2 was trying to portray this dynamic, with Anna constantly clinging to and smothering Elsa, but heartbreakingly enough they choose to resolve this by having Elsa just push her away again (like, why can't they just let sisters have a healthy relationship?)
Meanwhile, Kristof's main quality in the first movie was the voice of reason. He's not putting on a show -- in fact, he's barely civil, and he calls Anna out for being so naive in falling for Hans' polished facade overnight. So why does he get relegated to posing dramatically with butterflies for this movie? Why doesn't he get to honestly discuss his feelings with Anna? Why doesn't Anna get to learn to have a tiny bit of faith in her sister, so the happy story we're left with isn't *free yourself from the constraints of loved ones -- they will never truly understand you?*
@@eyesofthecervino3366
that definitely sounds cool.
So much missed potential with this movie ;-;
This movie was all animation, no story. The animation was so whimsical and it had me. But whenever I think too much about the movie, it makes my head hurt
i love when the water horse plushie appears on jenny's lap like a fussy dog that needs constant reassurance or it will cry
You just described my dog
i hate the internet. i _did not_ read fussy the way it is supposed to be read
Frozen Elsa: You can’t isolate yourself from everyone.
Frozen 2 Elsa: [isolates herself harder]
i kinda saw it as her surrounding herself with those who are more like her rather than isolation- and jenny did mention elsa still occasionally returning to arendelle too, haha
@@fusetunes Still, I don't get the impression that Elsa really feels connected to these spirits. (except for maybe the horse)
@@StarlightPrism she's not isolated though? She's with the Northuldra.
@@fusetunes like the horse who killed her parents! that's weird lol, isolation might be better
@@fusetunes no. this movie definitely tell you if you are different you should hear voice in your head and isolate yourself rather with people who already loved you. It's stupid message. The theme of this movie contradicted each other. First we learn Elsa will lose herself if she went to far. But at the end, she kick Anna, find that sound all by herself find the truth and just get frozen without reason. We learn every step they made will have consequence. Even if it's the right thing to do. but then nothing really happen in this movie. They are just learn about their parents past, unleash magic forest with dangerous magical creature. And Elsa throw away her throne just to be a shepherd for this dangerous magical creature. What the hell Disney. I can't believe is this same studio who made Tangled and Brave.
THEY DIDN’T ADRESS THE FACT THAT KRISTOFF WAS BASICALLY ABDUCTED BY THE TROLLS
That can be Frozen 3! Kristoff finds his real parents and everyone realizes the trolls aren't as good as they seem
Yeah fuck them Trolls
No, the trolls took in an orphan, how the hell does that make them bad? Kristoff wasn't stolen from his parents
They'll get to it in Frozen 3, when it's revealed his grandfather was actually Jafar all along. And somehow he's come back to life.
@@lautaroroldanpizzorno7494 idk man he was like 5 and clearly at home with the other ice miners they're all just working while he messes around and they seem used to him, plus he's wearing a cute lil baby version of their clothes and has a little sleigh that somebody must have made for him recently so I assumed he had a community that cared for him, and the trolls just kept him without a thought even though, again, he's clearly healthy and cared for and he didn't ask for their help. Seems so shady to me, I always expected them to be the twist villain
this is all fine and good but where’s the a dogs purpose trilogy video
I guess it's purpose is NOT to be in a Jenny Nicholson video...
SHE HEARTED THIS COMMENT GUYS ITS COMING
Dog’s Purpose trilogy video: never give up
TRILOGY????????
Doggy snuff film trilogy
Frozen 1: Elsa is depressed. She learns to let it go and be herself.
Frozen 2: Elsa becomes a weird horse girl.
as The Lion King put it best, it's the circle of life
So to you, going on a selfish power trip with no stepback on good, bad, rules, limits and consequences is "be yourself", but trully embracing yourself and everything you are despite the expectations of your close ones is "being weird, stop being weird you weirdo".
Gotcha.
@@AcetylsaliciIique In the first movie, Elsa learns that she can become free and be herself by having the people arround her accept her. In the sequel she's pretty much actively rewarded for pushing Anna and the others away, but i guess they keep in contact so honestly what even is the point.
that's pretty much how horse girls are born
@@thanatoast The point is to fulfilled in who you are. The first movie solved Elsa's power problem, but none of her deepr psychological problems. She's still depressive, she's still loss. And it's true : a loving, caring support system is sadly not enough. Frozen 2 makes that abundantly clear at the beginning of the movie showing that despite all the efforts of the people around her, Elsa is just not comfortable and happy in this life.
To be fair, I do not like either how the scene where Elsa pushes back Anna and Olaf fits in the movie : indeed the movie shows her as being right to do so. It fits in Anna's (learning to be stop be so overprotective) story but not really in Elsa's.
I'd say the point is to show Elsa makes all the same decisions as in the first movie, but this time it's out of love and introspecting, not out of fear and rejection, so it's good.
But still, Elsa's ending in Show Yourself is absolutely incredible and the best possible ending for her character. Seeing her be taken aback by just how fulfilling it is to finally see yourself completely. The pure happiness in her will always warm my heart, and I think that having this song, this *moment* in their life will help a lot of people growing up who may struggle with identity.
Some of the outtake songs on the soundtrack actually tell a much more rounded story than the one we got in my opinion, especially Anna's first song "Home" has her singing about how she loves Arendelle and her people and wants to do more for them, and Kristoff's alternate song "Get This Right" ends with Anna proposing to HIM which is so much more wholesome and endearing than what we got in the movie, where she either ignores him, yells at him or forgets he exists.
I did enjoy this movie but there really is a lot of wasted potential here. I feel like whatever the original story was got rearranged and cut to the point that it's basically unrecognisable now.
Yeah, I REALLY want to see behind the scenes content on the production. I want to know where a lot of these elements were supposed to pay off.
But we’ve seen the whole ‘man gets too nervous to propose to exuberant princess so she just does it for him’ type thing before... (Tangled)
Smeckledorffed yeah in the last 10 seconds of the movie, nobody was listening by then
Anna proposing to him does sound endearing, but I don't think it would match with what they set up for him in the movie. If he didn't end up proposing in the end, finally achieve the confidence to tell Anna how he feels, that practically makes all his previous attempts moot and his character really would have been useless with nothing to do or to accomplish.
@@smeckledorffed1120 But with Eugene it was really build up to be about all his insecurities because he's a freaking orphan turned thief who was so down with himself he built himself a fake thief persona. He wasn't just nervous, he had issues.
Meanwhile Kristoff in Frozen was pretty chill? Like, I remember zero conflict about him being a commoner and Anna being a princess? So those two proposals would have played out very differently.
"The World is Dangerous and Children are Curious" is quite a line. Gonna keep that one.
Basically, the premise of Tangled
@@Sophia048 Best Disney-Pixar film of the last decade.
Putting that one in the vault for my DnD campaign. I swear, only, like, 20 children have died.
@@KuueenKumi
Tangled is not Pixar's.
jenny attacking disney movies while keeping them alive with merchandising sales
21st century in the nutshell
Jenny is single handily keeping her local Walmart and Target stores in business and contributing to her local economy.
a soul for a soul
knessi ng that’s rich.
Now that is called balance.
I was so sure Ana and Elsa would meet an Autumn girl in this movie since I saw them being attacked by the wind in the trailer. It just makes so much sense to introduce one magical character for each season and Else being the Winter one, but I guess they didn't want to go that way.
I thought so too!! The trailer so dramatically set it up that way
The lack of new powerful characters in the sequel legit broke my heart, such a let down 😭
That honestly wouldn’t been 10x better
Trailers for anything frozen related always seem to be misleading. I remember hating frozen as a kid because the trailer made me think Anna would have fire powers. (Maybe I was just a dumb kid, but my friends thought the same thing.)
@@starbutterfly9036 I never saw the trailers, but watching the movie I 100% thought that was gonna happen!!
I also adore the fact this country keeps sending out it's only leaders to these adventures and no one seems concerned.
King and queen both leave their country to find answers for the daughter.
Queen runs from kingdom. Second in line just follows after he into the wilderness.
Both queen and princess both leave the country unprotected to wander into a dreaded cursed forest.
The country apparently got along fine for over a decade with the Heir Apparent locked in her bedroom.
Well, when your queen has ice abilities so powerful that they can create life, I don't think George with a stick is gonna do much good in her place.
Let’s not forget that they just do the spin and point method to figure out temporary leaders. Like they dont have advisors or some court officials. The fucking rock people? Really?
I mean, in times of war, kings used to lead the battle. Then they were there, but at a safer distance. They’d leave regents in place all the time. Usually the Queen consort, the heir, or a prominent figure close to the king.
It doesn’t make sense for both to go with no thought to continuity of government, but it’s like, not unheard of. They’ve gone way past logic farther than that before. 😅
My headcanon is that they’re all secretly anti-royalist and hope the royal bloodline perishes because they’re all idiots, but to no avail as they have amazing plot armour.
i know i hate that she’s “the 5th element” but *ice is water wtf*
The five elements: Water, fire, air, earth, and cold water.
@@hotnindza No Leeloo is the fifth element.
How do people think it's love? Love is the reason for saving humanity but Leeloo is the fifth element. It's explicitly stated so very clearly.
It fucking baffles me.
get ready for the twist 6th element: *_steam_*
I thought that the 5th element is human, which was supposed to represent the fact that humans are part of the nature and we are partially responsible for the climate change.
Eh, I'm not sure I believe her powers are "ice". I think her powers are transformation. When you're depressed and scared, all you can do is freeze shit because condensing into a safe hard cold ball is the only way she knows how to be safe.
Also when your little and live in not-Norway, maybe ice is the first thing you notice transforming in a magically seeming way, so that's what you play with when you are six. Maybe she just likes it because snow is beautiful and stable fire is too hard to control, always changing. Later, as an adult, she's only just coming to realize that she can do more than freeze things after suppressing her powers for most of her life. In the first movie, she realizes she can imbue other things (her ice monsters and snow people) with life, the ultimate transforming force and the purest form of her power. Then, at the end, she realizes she can also transform things from ice to flowing, living things. She can control plants too, we see her growing flowers and restoring all the green plants that would have been killed by the several days of deep cold snow.
Honestly, we are still in book one Avatar territory as far as Elsa is concerned. She clearly has power over fire, since heating and cooling things is literally fire (and also she strait up controls the fire lizard), she's just never gone there. Her snowkinesis is just wind, water and ice are a duh, and earth is covered in the plant shit she does as an after thought.
All her powers are filtered through ice not because it has to be, but because Elsa believes that's how they work. Her powers are still freaking *growing*.
Shes just a goddess of life/transformation. Strait up.
The singing Elsa hears also sounds like the Dies Irae, a motif that composers usually use to signify death, so that could’ve been some cool musical foreshadowing that she was being tricked.
That would have been so cool and clever if the writers had gone down that route. It’s such a shame they just… didn’t
The "Into the Unknown: Making of Frozen 2" documentary pretty much confirms that Jenny Nicholson's analysis is spot on. The drinking game with the documentary is to drink every time someone questions the motivations/reasoning of the characters in Frozen 2 and Jennifer Lee dismisses it by saying, "You guys are overthinking it" and everyone in the room goes quiet. Combined with the schedule pressure, Frozen 2 ends up a melting ice cream of a mess.
She was very clear that this movie was being made to please little kids, which is why they made a massive rewrite after the screening , which adults like but kids didn't get. That's why the Broadway musical is so shitty...she wrote a $200/ticket performance for small children.
... this Jennifer Lee person you are speaking of. I do not think I like her much.
@@WhistleAndSnap Jennifer Lee was also writer/director of the original Frozen, which I quite liked. Something went funky with Frozen II, though. I think Lee just had a hard time balancing the different wants and voices from inside of Disney, whereas she had more freedom with the original Frozen (too much money was at stake for Frozen II, so more people were involved.) That's my guess at least.
@@DoomGoober
I think the biggest problem with 'Frozen II' was that, Disney wanted to make the sequel due to the first movie's unexpected success, and the filmmakers had to do everything they can to make a story that's worthy of a feature-length sequel... in other words, the pressure was on, and maybe they were a little rushed.
@@stormtraitor6545 Ah yes, the Stranger Things phenomenon. A pretty solid one-off that makes weaker sequels purely because it's profitable.
Jenny: *tears into a movie for 25 minutes*
Jenny: I liked it
@QQminusS what?
@QQminusS man you're a trip
My girlfriend had to endure me doing the same thing. Groused for like an hour, then concluded it was pretty good.
Movies who have a lot of wasted potential are the ones that leave me feeling the most dissapointed tbh
You are allowed to critique things you like. Art does not exist on a good/bad binary.
I still can’t believe Elsa is friends with the murder horse that killed her parents 😅
"so... It's YOU I have to thank for taking them out for me."
The horse killed her parents? I thought it was just general ocean, not necessarily the water spirit, but the water spirit brought the ship over for them
SpookySoap Yeah Nokk (the horse spirit) was just the water spirit, it didn’t kill her parents...
@@DeathnoteBB Oh but it tried to kill her, maybe not her parents but almost drowned Elsa
Kumon P I mean yeah but we actually saw it physically try to drown Elsa. With the parents, the ocean just destroyed their boat. Idk why it tried to drown Elsa though. A lot of the movie makes little sense.
"Good bones but no skeleton" is actually a perfect way to describe this movie.
Spencer Malgam also a good thing to include in your Zillow listing
It's also the perfect way to describe me.
Just a pile o' bones
That's for sure and 'they' thought that some us wouldn't notice
Yes it needed some spider skeletons
windstant messenger
Dude I love ur videos wat?
Dude I love ur videos wat?
*gasps* you’re here?!? I love your videos so much!!!
Damnit I just came to make that joke
THANK YOU
I had mixed feelings about the rumor going around that Splash Mountain might become a Frozen-branded ride, but if they turn it into a murder canoe experience, I am all for it.
They already turned Maelstrom in Norway into a Frozen ride. We really don't need another. We really really didn't need the first one.
😂
@@HOTD108_ what you do is you go on Splash Mountain while it's raining because other people don't want to get more wet?
Splash mountain is dying in popularity. I spent this weekend at disneyworld and splash mountain was the one ride that ALL DAY didn’t have a long wait. All day.
Rebecca Lauren even if that’s the case, Disney has many other rides dying faster and they keep tabs on all of them
It sucks that none of the new characters are there for more than a single scene
LITERALLY
why people are all "OH MY GOD KRISTOFF AND RIDER OH MY GOD!!!!!!" I'm like "BITCH WHERE?!" lol
agreed. And they went on tour to promote the movie but were barely init.
One word can describe this: TOYS
That's for sure. I mean if your going going to focus on new characters, give them the time to develop and the characters we do know ( Anna and Olaf) have them with less time than the first movie.
"glamorous bedazzled hermit horse girl" is my new favorite character description
Glad I'm not alone in that! 🤣 °o°
Frozen: Elsa tries to run away from her family, discovers she really needs them in her life.
Frozen 2: Elsa tries to stay with her family, discovers she really needs to be somewhere else.
Wreck-It Ralph: Don't go Turbo... that's bad!
Ralph Breaks the Internet: Yeah, Go Turbo... do what you want.
Disney sequels have a trend of being contradictory and inconsistent.
Hey, her name isn't Here-a. What did you expect?
@@superface I almost chocked on my food-
@@superface LMFAOO 😭😭
Surely Elsa’s true family was the tribe people she barely acknowledged and ignored throughout the film.
If there were more fire salamanders and water horses and Gales, then it would make sense that they’re beings that are manifested from the spirits (like Olaf and Marshmallow) rather than the spirits themselves.
"Frozen" spin-off movies about the other elements:
"Blown" (a magical girl who controls the wind)
"Dirty" (a magical girl who controls the earth)
"Burnt" (a magical girl who controls fire)
“Soggy” a magical girl who controls water
Think windswept might be a bit more child friendly than blown haha
In Chinese mythology wood is an element so 'Wood' would be a great film. "Blown" could be a sequel to "Wood" where the two girls team up together.
It would be Blown Away
Burnt is already a movie title but it’s about Bradley Cooper being a chef. New head canon: Bradley Cooper is a fire-themed magical girl 🔥🌟✨
top 10 mother daughter matching costumes 2019
The father doesn't seem to like it however.
You talking about the movie or Jenny and the porg?
If Anna had the fire lizard as a companion it'd really set up a neat "fire and ice" theme for the hypothetical third movie
As someone who was a little girl when Frozen 1 came out, I can say that little girls would EAT UP Anna with fire powers! (Ok, technically just a fire lizard familiar, but close enough to be cool and marketable)
I don’t know, I kind of like that Anna doesn’t have powers. Anna coming into her powers later sounds good, but Anna is emotionally powerful.
For the next movie i really want ana to have a moment where she chooses herself over elsa.
yes! Anna has an unhealthy dependency on her sister, and it would be cool for overcoming that to be her arc. With their boundries clear, the sisters could strengthen their relationship even more.
I like everything Jenny said about the rewrite, they should've done that *clap clap*
@@rhemacreel1339 exactly! Thank you !
I'm really high, and the idea of Elsa having white guilt in a Disney movie made me laugh until I cried.
you know you’re in for a good comment when it starts with “i’m really high”
Lolol when I saw that scene all I could think of was “Mr. Stark.. I don’t feel so good 🤕 “
😂😂😂😂
10\10 great comment
My current favourite stoner treat is watching Jenny vids and trying not to die mid rip
Elsa in Frozen: "The cold never bothered me anyway."
Elsa in Frozen II: [freezes to death]
But it's MAGIC freezing to death that totally makes it different
Madysyn Burk but it’s still ironic
@@Orangesodawk yes I know that
It was one of the most clever roll credits moment. Because Elsa got frozen too
I literally made this joke to my sister whilst we were watching that scene lol.
Man. I was so certain where you were going with Villainess was that she claims to be the fifth element, but she is actually a witch/spirit who turned all the other elements into animals. And somehow in so doing, she takes their element for herself. So she appears to have control over all elements because she's the last one, but in reality, she's taking the powers for herself. Maybe the reason they're animals but not outright dead is that the power she gains from them needs to be recharged, basically. Maybe the reason we never see the wind animal is that she's been drawing on their essence this whole time to control the wind to fool Elsa - and they are actually held prisoner somewhere. Also, this is why Charmander is so scared of her - she's drawn on their fire many times before. So the end game for her with Elsa is for her to steal a chunk of Elsa's spirit and turn her into an animal, too. This is also why all the elements tear the kingdom apart - that was Villainess using her power to force Elsa out of her home and to her.
And then after Villainess is defeated, the essence returns to all the animals and they become magical girls again.
THAT WAY YOU GET CUTE ANIMAL MERCH AAAANNNND MAGICAL GIRL MERCH SO YOU MAKE ALL OF THE MONEY!!!
lmao imagine elsa as an ice squirrel or something. or they could just use that dragon from Raya that looks like elsa's fursona
This is so Barbie and the Magic of the Pegasus (I love it)
Yassss wait I love this
@@squashfei8907I don't know why but I thought you meant like the squirrel from Ice Age at first, which would be an incredibly brave direction to take and I'd love to see it.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
This sounds like they wanted to make avatar, realized avatar was allready a thing, and then didnt know how to make it work after that.
This is sooooooo accurate.
Pocahontas already exists.
@@JeanLucPolier wrong avatar buddy
it's hard to top something as good as avatar so it makes sense that frozen 2 didn't work
Even Avatar was a thing before Avatar. Well story atleast
yeah when i spoiled for myself that Elsa was going to leave them behind and stay in the forest, i felt like it was so strange because the entire first film was about how you shouldnt be alone, your family loves you
Understandable! They’ve already spent over a decade apart.
So much for that message
Well she does visit them occasionally for charades. 🤷
@@amyshoemaker8430 If you read some Frozen II comics she doesn’t really
Elsa's literally a 5 minute water horse ride away from Arendelle and writes to Anna on the regular.
Not really the same thing as completely isolating yourself because your parents are assholes.
the most disappointing thing is that there were no other human characters that controlled the other elements.. they could've made like, a cool fire girl and honestly sell many more toys than just having a salamander plushie
Agreed, I’ve honestly been waiting and hoping for Anna to somehow have early or fire magic or something.
Yes this movie was the most boring story I have seen or heard of that involves the four elements. And ocnsidering that my favorite character of all time was inthis film, well a phantom version of her anyway, they could've at least tried to do something, but they didn't.
What I always wanted was for Anna to be Winter and Rapunzel to be Spring (her magic looks THE SAME in animation and she is canon in the same universe at the same time as she and Eugene appear at Elsa's coronation), and for Anna to have to go off and find the princesses of Fall and Spring, hopefully in India and Japan or some such, to get some more diversity in there.
@@JenniferKlumpp I'm on board for this shared universe idea. Of course, with a coherent storyline.
Yeah, that would have been awesome for them to have different magical girls like Elsa of all the different elements...but they didn't. The spirits are all just random things like a salamander, earth giants, a water horse...and it's weird. Magical girls who have the different powers of the elements would have been a lot cooler and they could make more cute merchandise with all those new characters that people would love. :p And Elsa would know she's not alone. Or they could have just had Anna discover somehow that she has fire magic (pink fire like the lizard) while Elsa has ice, which is what I wanted. So they could give something to Anna's character too that would be cool, and not just Elsa- or throwing Anna a bone like she says. lol Anna should have something too, and Anna was born on the Summer solstice while Elsa was born on the Winter solstice so it'd kind of make sense too that they both get powers.
jenny's talent is completely destroying a movie while still making me wanna watch it again
“There’s something off about that lady named villainess.” 😂😂😂
You know… I was fine without a villain
Jenny: *does a little baby sneeze that sounds like maybe a mouse did it*
Jenny: oh god, that was so violent
I scrolled down upon seeing that moment literally to find this comment and I couldn't have asked for a version of this comment more appropriate the energy of this channel. Thank you.
19:25 for those who want to experience this moment.
@@ollievendor7413 so are we all agreed that Jenny is an actual Disney Princess? Like, the Princess of TH-cam maybe?
@@gsofficial Wrong. Jenny is a Hasbro Princess. There is a subtle difference.
@@albertskoften1452 joint mobility?
My ending-
-Arendelle is destroyed. I hate when two bad things are going to happen, and the main characters are like “we can only fix one” but in actuality, both get fixed. I don’t think it teaches a good lesson about life and all that. Like, bad things happen. It isn’t always the end of the world. Same reason I didn’t like Ant Man and the Wasp
-The northern people help rebuild Arendelle, cementing the trust and connection
-This gives Anna a chance to prove that she is put together and confident enough to lead.
-Elsa realizes that she is happier with the northerners, would rather freely explore her powers, and can trust Anna to lead the kingdom herself. (Even though to me, Anna was never someone I thought could be the queen)
Arendelle not being destroyed was the one thing that really surprised me, I was expecting at least one consequence to be semi-permanent...
and yeah I figured if it was destroyed they would just rebuild it and Anna would get to prove herself as queen; they even had that shot in Some Things Never Change of Anna walking through the frame of a house that's being built, idk it just seemed like a bit of foreshadowing
Great fix! Arendelle being fine also really irked me. Reminded me of Pocahontas: “we did terrible things to these native people but will not suffer any consequences because we shouldn’t fight :)”
exactly
I read a really good post about how it would have made things worse if Arendelle had been destroyed - despite it not being destroyed seeming like the bad move originally; but after reading this post it makes a lot more sense.
The worst part is that they'd already fudged it so the kingdom was evacuated anyway so it's not like she would have been condemning them all to death.
So, I first watched Frozen 2 on a client’s Disney + account. I’m a pet sitter and often spend upwards of a week at my clients house. This client had a camera in the living room to watch the dogs while they’re away in their daily lives, and they allow me to turn the camera while I’m there, but this was the first time I sat for them. So I’m sat on their couch, pmsing horribly, and absolutely ugly SOBBING at Frozen 2, it was hitting me in all the feelings. And then I get a text, from my client, asking if I’m okay. They’d checked the camera just out of habit, and caught me mid sob. They still hire me, so I guess it didn’t seem to weird to them but I’m still a lil embarrassed when they call me to sit for them.
I know this is a two year-old comment and all, but I just wanted to say-- if I needed to hire a pet sitter, I'd /absolutely/ want the one who sobs while watching Frozen 2. If you're tender-hearted enough to cry at a Disney movie, then I'm gonna assume that my pets are safe and well-pampered in your care. You can't fake that level of empathy!
When will Hollywood realize they need Jenny as a screenwriting consultant?
@Optimus Prime Imagine calling someone else a 'neckbeard' while having a public playlist of 'babes' called 'Hot' on your profile. That's comedy.
@@Elven_Gamer i honestly want to believe people in hollywood are capable of writing scripts and plots that actually make sense, but they're always instructed to write for 160% or 175% that 60-80% of which can be cut depending on the cost / delays / unsatisfactory contracted work / voice work or characters that have to be thrown out due to an actor dying or becoming icky for the production company to be attached to
and that's how you keep getting these absolute messes, especially especially in SEQUELS
I like how olaf is in NONE of jenny's frozen 2 predictions
He's not important. Olaf only exists for Anna to have someone to talk to, which they already had in Kristoff but the snowman will sell more toys than a guy with a reindeer.
Because Olaf is the Indiana Jones in this film series. If he didn’t exist, the story would still end the exact same way.
The less Olaf, the better. I hate this movie more than normal because he comes back from death
@@sophieleitontoomey2372
It took me all this time and your comment to look back and realize that Indiana Jones is useless in his own movies.
I feel betrayed.
@@sophieleitontoomey2372 Wait... it's the first time I've heard this. How is he useless?
Should have been called
“Frozen 2: Electric Murder Canoe”
I think Electric Murder Canoe is playing Coachella next year
CharDeeMcDennis 2: Electric Boogaloo!
YES XD
I feel like Anna should've been the 5th spirit, however, she cannot *physically* control the other elements, she can *emotionally* control them. She was able to make her sister calm down and restore everything to normal in the first movie by sacrificing herself, she made her sister grieve and feel sorrow, and realize how much she loved her family. Why not expand on that by making it an actual thing that comes naturally to her, empathy and being able to emotionally reach out to others?
It would explain why, though Elsa can literally create and control ice, Anna is just a bubbly, happy, emotional girl that just wants people to get along. She literally controls the other elements by figuring out what she can do to help them. Disney, listen, you can actually make it "friendship saves the day" bullshit and that would fit with her character. It can even show that she always got along better with others including animals throughout her life, that when she was out of control, her friends understood her and reacted the same way. That way, at the end of the movie, Anna ascends the throne because she has a better handle on taking care of people.
Ummm Anna & Elsa are the fifth spirit. A bridge has two sides
@@LoveLove-fp2rn Except they specifically state Elsa alone is the Fifth Spirit. They completely pushed Anna off to the side.
@@GeneralKenobi75 What? I thought it said Anna was the Fifth too?
@@sylph8005 No, just Elsa. Elsa told Anna a bridge has two sides to remind them of their sisterhood.
@@GeneralKenobi75 Was that it?
I remember watching it and being *so* disappointed that the other elements were not more magical girls.
Like, there was so much they could have done with that imo and it would have been much more interesting for the movie
Like Sailor Moon?
Yeah.. i was expecting Elsa to find others like her and then maybe Ana could have been the 5th spirit, the spirit of love that unites the spirits.
It's a potential money printing machine. Idk why that wasn't the first thing disney thought about
That's RWBY
That would have been great for the rule 34 material too. Crying shame.
Also the song that goes "some things never change" while contradicting every lyrics with what's going on screen made that whole song feel really ominous to me, so I also thought somebody would die
Diane Kim SAME I kept thinking “this is some pretty dark foreshadowing I wonder what’s gonna happen”
Saw frozen two with a guy as a date. While Elsa and Olaf “died” a couple sitting next to us started VIOLENTLY making out. My date and I nearly lost our shit laughing because why the hell did they decide THAT was the time??? Like what???
Olaf dying is definitely a cause for merriment.
I started crying at that scene bc I’m a literal child and now my boyfriend won’t let me live it down.
IMO There's definitely something off about people who see the death of beloved Disney characters as an aphrodisiac.
@@DaveLH>Olaf
>beloved
Pick one.
I wanns know more about future dates
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed how weird the spirits were. I pointed it out to my brother and he didn't really get why I was confused by it. Imo they should've done a fantasy creature for each spirit, so the kelpie water horse works. For fire, they could turn the lizard into a dragon and for earth they could just make it so there's one giant? For wind, idk, a griffin? A thunderbird? Not sure, but I think they could've done better than the actual wind
I think the idea of the spirits being the elements itself is pretty good but i just wish they would've been consistent. The water spirit is made of water but likes the shape of a horse most, the wind spirit is just wind, but the earthand fire spirits are physical forms. The earth/stone spirit could've just been everywhere like the wind or shape into different forms like water. Same with fire, that one would've been a bit harder since moving fire would just burn everything but.. it's a fictional spirit, it just not burn anything on command. Or it could be presented by heat or smth.
If they had a physical spirit for wind (maybe a bird) it would've been consistent too, making Elsa the true water spirit. Or they could've used the seasons instead of the elements.
There are soo many good ideas for a sequel, so many great backstories and explanations, they could've built an amazing world. Instead they just this.. whatever this is.
I mean salamanders are a fire animal (the mythical kind, idk why they share a name with salamanders that live in the water)
If we're keeping up the elemental creatures having a real world mythology link (kelbi for water horse, dragon for fire lizard, golem for... well, golems), they could use the kamaitachi, which is like a Japanese weasel that rides around on dust devils and cuts people in a way that doesn't hurt or bleed.
So yeah, wind weasel. That's the best I got.
There are mythological Salamander fire spirits, so that one works for the physical form. No Dragons needed.
But a physicsl kelpie, and maybe thunder bird, and some rock spirit animal would have been much better and more consistent.
Hot take: Kristoff wasn’t in character purgatory, he was just having an off screen affair with the Ryder, the other reindeer guy
That is a great hot take
Literally had more chemistry with him than he ever had with Anna. I ship it
Omg, I totally thought other reindeer guy would hit on Kristoff. But alas, no openly gay characters in Disney movies..
My thought is this!
So the glacier is sort of alluded to as the frozen heart in the opening of the first film. Elsa "dies" once she reaches the heart of the glacier that is warned about in that opening song. It also says "Ice has a magic that can't be controlled". And while in the first film this was obviously referring to Elsa, on a larger realm, if we focus on all the spirits, it is exactly this uncontrollable magic that comes from Ahotallan. And we hardly see ice in Arendelle, so he would have had to come from the north. Kristoff, especially in the first film, shares a lot of wardrobe similarities with the Northuldra people in the second. Then he has Sven, and reindeer are not really seen in Arendelle but seem to be a staple part of the culture of the Northuldra. We also know that he lost his family when he was young, presumably because he got left behind. And, he developed a relationship with the trolls, who seem to be the only magical thing that managed to make it out of the enchanted forest before it was trapped in by fog.
So my theory is that Kristoff and Rider got along so well because they're somehow related. Kristoff is from Northuldra, or of the Northuldra people, and his circumstance getting lost while mining ice when he was really young is the reason why he made his way to Arendelle. I mean, there are a few things that would have to be better explained, but I think he definitely has way more similarities with the Northuldra than the Arendellians.
Stephanie Lloyd i like your theory! ... but i still believe they had an affair off screen... i guess roll tide 🙃😂
"She's as white as a person can be, without being a ghost." I hurt myself laughing at that line.
@@cloudberries I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to be disrespectful.
rabbitsfoot33 I am not upset, no worries 😁 I replied to the wrong comment. My apologies!
@@cloudberries oh, okay. no problem :)
"So you know how Frozen kind of ended on a solid happily ever after?"
"Right but then money happened."
"But then money happened." - Frozen 2 Pitch meeting.
See also: Toy Story 4 and Wreck It Ralph 2.
The age of Disney sequels with emotion-driven goodbye endings that nerf the last film has begun.
Talk about cold hard cash amirite.
"It must be hard to make a sequel to Frozen."
"No, actually super easy, barely an inconvenience!"
You can tell who has and hasn't seen Pitch Meetings.
Ribotto Studios Frozen 2: The Search for More Money
Call to attention “The Christmas Prince 3: The Royal Baby” is coming
The baby will be but a pawn in the revolution. This is no time for children
It will be born on Christmas or Christmas Eve and named Noelle. If it is not Noelle you may seize my assets and my dog will forget me.
indiciaobscure
Or Holly
The Christmas Prince 3: Bolshevik Boogaloo
I love that the clear conflict is the missing artefact but the focus will be the pregnancy. Hopefully our Clue-like heist mystery will be intercut with joyful baby related excursions, ultrasounds, and baby showers.
Me: Why is youtube recommending me Daphne from Scooby Doo?
>30 mins later
Me: You know, Daphne makes a great point, and I like her version of Frozen 2 a lot better
She can't be Daphne, she is not in the right colour
@@aegrajag She's Netflix Daphne, lol
haven't watched the whole video yet but my name is Daphne and i'm very confused now
@@DafieYo the joke is Jenny's Anna wig.
@@a-s-greig hahah yeah I got it after looking at the thumbnail again
all i could think about during elsa’s final song is that she’s superman and her mom is jor-el and the glacier is her fortress of solitude. they really put in a big floating mom head in that scene and expected me to not notice the parallels
😂😂😂😂😂
"And up walks Elsa with her fancy new dress and blown out hair and COMPLETELY FAILING to read the room..." I lol'd.
"Glamorous, bedazzled hermit" is my new career aspiration.
- luke skywalker
I really wish they hadn't gone down that route with Anna and Kristoff. Her taking everything he says as an insult is Very overdone and frustrating.
Yeah I get it was for the plot but it got on my nerves really fast. Plus she kinda ignored him the entire movie to chase after elsa it was annoying
I. A. Gree! The whole movie it felt like anna had some attachment issues 😂
And never resolved either. Unhealthy relationship to show in a kids movie w no growth and having them marry at the end
Honestly wished they left Kristoff at home but with what happened in the first movie they couldn’t really do that
right?? i HATED it, and i know hate is a strong word, but listen. it was so frustrating and awkward. it wasn't established enough, Anna had no reason to think Kristoff would break up with her so it just seemed forced and it wasn't even funny. i liked kristoff's song, it was funny, but i wish they'd had more interactions and growth. like, what if Anna was all jittery and nervous around him because she was going to propose too?? that's just a random idea i just had, but anyway, my point still stands, this comment is long and unnecessary but i have really strong opinions about that dumb trope lmao
"There's something off about that lady named Villainess... what could it be"
gonna be so mad when i sit down to watch frozen 3 and it doesnt pick up right where this video left off
"'Elsa, do not use your ice powers on this lizard.' It's the best line in the script." I laughed.
Thing is I can totally picture how Anna would say this exact line
Frozen:
*Sisterly love*
Frozen 2:
*THE FORCES OF NATURE*
Frozen 3:
*ELSA VERSUS GOD*
Spoiler: Elsa uses the power of geass to defeat God
don't we all know lesbians are stronger than god and cannot die?
I mean, they dodged the whole 'Elsa is a queen to the Northuldra' only to make it 'Elsa is a goddess to the Northuldra because they literally worship the spirits'
Wouldn’t surprise me. I can name multiple shows that takes that same exact plot. Almost like it’s an agenda..
@@lights4946 Such a dumb comment.
The first Frozen came out 6 years ago...?
OH GOD.
*OH GOD I'M HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS.*
I feel ya'
At some point the last person to remember you will die...
JUST KIDDING!! Hahahahahaha _Facebook will remember you forever....but only the embarrassing things_
frozen 2 olaf is that you
I thought she was exaggerating. Wtf is time?
@Star Trek Theory Bad take on mental health there, bud.
Ok, I actually really liked frozen two but the way you PLANNED OUT AN ENTIRE MOVIE was so elegant and amazing and I would definitely watch it.
THANKYOU, I left the theatre feeling so confused about what I felt. I was captivated with how beautiful the movie looked, but during the entire viewing experience I couldn’t help but feel empty and as if something was wrong/missing. This perfectly put into words what I felt.
I felt this way too!! I walked out with more questions than i had answers for
"And ultimately you're coming up on the deadline and just scrambling to fit whatever you have into some semblance of a movie."
In fairness, this is pretty much exactly how the original Frozen was made.
Yes, I agree. And that was kind of how Casablanca was made - among other brilliant classics. So no excuses for crap storytelling that comes across as sludge from a theme food processor. : P
@@ColdHawk Far more bad movies get made this way than good. It works out like 2% of the time.
can we think about how the crown braid in anna’s hair doesn’t have a beginning or an end
This was the only thing I could think about for the whole movie. Especially during the over-the-shoulder shots, I couldn't pay attention to the story because I was just trying to figure out where her hair ended.
It starts on each side of her head but is somehow still one continuous braid.
Ok - not to get all Jungian on you here but you are probably familiar with the Ouroboros?
@@Cherri_Stars okay but you can definitly braid hair in a way that looks like it has no end. Hair stylists are magicians
@@Dumpknoedel example please?
@@alaraplatt8104 Cute Girls Hairstyles did a tutorial for Anna's hair, and they did two braids and overlapped them in a way that made it look like one.
On the ominous voice calling Elsa (that's Aurora btw cause she's great), she's singing the beginning of the Dies Irae, a really old and hugely influential song that usually symbolizes danger and, since it's a funeral song, death.
So with this, the nokk/kelpie/water horse usually drowning their riders, Elsa's siren song reference, literally every sign is pointing to this Disney princess dying at sea. Honestly, kinda disappointed she didn't actually kick it...I mean, there's still time I guess.
“Okay, maybe Elsa is water and there are different magical girls for each element and they can make a bunch of pretty dolls”
Someone hire this girl at DISNEY
That seemed so obvious- it would have been great. Totally predictable, but great.
Ikr and Disney LOOOVES money they could’ve made SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much money
She did work at Disney lol. At one of the parks
I think they should've gone for seasons instead of elements - winter, spring, summar, fall, but also rainy and dry perhaps (for the southern hemisphere viewers)
@@tinyetoile5503 oh come on what we mean is she needs to run Disney
Internet: Can you make Elsa gay?
Disney: We can make her biracial.
i yelled when i saw this!!! AHHH
They can't make her gay, China doesn't like that.
@@snarkykryptonite4768 i've thought the same thing about this "straight" thing since they were shoved down my throat in every disney movie ever. let's just raise children as entirely loveless beings until they reach the sensible age of sixteen. or is that too young? eighteen? twenty one?
Josephine Good The straight thing is getting out of hand. They keep being the worst people on the planet, like all the time. Sigh.
Wait is she actually biracial
2017: Oh god, a 24 minute video on Rogue One??
2019: Only 28 minutes about Frozen 2? Her videos are getting shorter.
The outfits were my favorite part of the movie. Well are so well designed and detailed. They are so well made, both by the designers and the animators. Just the little details and additions that you never saw in a Disney movie before, even the previous movie the outfits were fairly basic, simple design, princess dresses.
Especially Anna's travel outfit. The layers, embroidery, seams, edging, clasps and brooches, ect. I mean, they were like real clothes. I want to wear it and cosplay so much.
YESSSS
anna always gets the most visually interesting outfits! i am sick of elsa's blue dress reincarnating a million times
"The lizard gets upset and starts doing fire."
Finally, a character I can relate to
Hmmmm. Derrigible “doing fire” = Hindenburg?
I dont know if this is what you were implying but I now really want a YA urban fantasy story retelling mythical beasts as just like. toddlers who REALLY want to show you a cool rock. a kelpie who came to me on the shores or a foggy lake brought me to a log that looked like an old man, and I just had to nod and seem enthused. 2/5 stars the log did not look like an old man
On the bright side, at least the Kelpie didn't drown you. They like to do that.
I am 100% down with this interpretation.
OMG, now I want that too!
Writing prompt!
@@PeanutButterZombie00 it drowns you if you don't look enthused enough.
9:30 "No, Elsa. Don't do that very weird thing." I feel like this applies to a LOT of the Frozen franchise.
This movie felt so much like it was working up to Elsa being gay or just fully accepting herself, the vibes were there, the music, literally everything and then it's like. its ur dead mom
*Freud appears*
I really don't know where people get this idea from that Elsa is gay. Elsa expressed interest in no-one throughout both films, which is much closer to asexuality. More importantly though is that her arc had nothing to do with romance at all. To add that would muddy the themes by making the film about too many things at once.
Giving her a partner would also take away an important distinction she has between herself and Anna as well as adhering to the Bad Writer's Manifesto that all main characters need love interests in the sequels.
@@wheeliebin1791 Ehhh. I doubt Elsa saying a girl looks cute would muddy anything, nor would it make her the same as Anna, or require getting a girlfriend. It's Disney. I don't think they even know how that works.
As for folks hoping Elsa would be Ace, Bi, Gay, etc, I think it's _because_ Elsa has no established interest in anyone - it would be a nice touch to sneak a little not-straight in there. It doesn't require a whole romance plot. Just a line or expression to indicate a moment of interest in someone other than a man. She could also be Aromantic & continue not dating or wanting to date anyone, while making Aro people happy to be acknowledged in a major film. Plus Elsa's whole entire thing is being born different, hating herself and trying to hide it because that's what her parents wanted, and then deciding to just...not do that one day. She leaves town, tries out a new look, and sings about being so excited to finally be herself and nobody's around to judge her for it. Frozen 2: Elsa feels restless and still out of place in a way she can't put her finger on. She is wooed by a mysterious unknown entity, who she is determined to meet. She's still 200% all about finding her own identity/learning to love herself and the ways in which she is different from the rest of the family. That's going to resonate with a LOT of Queer folks, no matter what.
A 10-second scene to confirm all those "gay allegory" vibes would mean the world to folks and take nothing away from the story.
Frozen is not a masterpiece of originality or complex narratives. It's kind of a hot mess in glitter heels, which _also_ resonates with a more specific portion of the LGBTQ+ community. The real question is "Why not?"
(PS: please don't forget, *Asexual* people DO date, if they're interested in somebody. They're less motivated by sex, is all. *Aromantic* people can also date TBH, they just don't experience romantic attachment the same way, and they're not driven to seek out a relationship. An Aromantic person may be very sexually attracted to other people, though. There's overlap and some folks are both, but they're not interchangeable identities.)
@@Whatlander You make some good points, but you're making it sound like canon _doesn't_ deliver good rep, you're listing asexuality and aromanticism among the things that could be represented but not acknowledging that that's exactly what we get. Which makes it seem like that's not enough somehow, like that's a lesser form of representation than having her show interest in a girl. Please just let us keep our aro princess.
@@woodfur00 but it would mean something more if she was acknowledged as aro--just not giving her a romantic subplot is not the same thing as representation. u dont have an aro princess
“Send her away in the murder canoe....”
Dying.
So is Anna
Katie Wahl - Point, set, and match go to Wahl!
things that were never explained or annoyed me about the movie:
-the salamander had no purpose to be in the film except to sell toys.
-most of the songs were reprise-seeming or very close to the original frozen
-the dude that kristoff talks to before his solo song is built up like he will matter in the movie or be kristoff's brother/good friend, but is never really seen again
-they don't do a good job at establishing that ana is fit to run a kingdom. like elsa trained her whole life, but ana just sorta made her own fun and did whatever & even after elsa stopped hiding, ana took the backseat and elsa went all hardcore leader. anna is better as a kingdom embassador or something, not a literal leader.
-same thing as the dude who talks to kristoff, what was that girl who had a deep convo w elsa halfway thru???? cause we don't really see her again after that. what was her purpose??
(there are more things but im forgetting them at the moment)
I mean I did go "ok *Elsa* shouldn't be leader" after she almost got her sister killed multiple times for no good reason in the movie, showing she's as impulsive as she was in the first movie. There was a lot of "I know best" that honestly should have lead to Elsa failing her quest.
Anna meanwhile, for her naivety in the first movie, actually seems the most level headed of our main cast. In this movie we see she's basically shed that naivety, and grown up, unlike everyone but maybe Olaf.
@@RenaDeles true. the song she has w olaf in the beginning showed how much she matured while still keeping w the 'for the first time in forever' thing she had going on.
but elsa was still trained from birth to be a queen while ana was at the side, not being taught those things.
and kristoff is no help as he knows nothing about palace stuff till he meets ana which is a deviation from other disney movies where maybe cinderella's prince or snow whites or sleeping beautys could have helped her if she didn't know anything cause they were raised with leading a kingdom in mind.
basically what im saying is it would have made much more sense for ana to be the one living in the woods running some ice thing w kristoff & sven and elsa to be running the kingdom
@@chrisbcpack it's true Anna likely doesn't have the same statecraft training (though I would assume she has SOME, as Elsa's only heir for so long. You need something in case your weirdo princess never comes out of her room), and yeah honestly unlike Eugene who seems very ready to be royal consort, for Rapunzel also not having her statecraft down (but at least having her parents still ruling, so she's got time), Anna and Kristoph would prob be happier just running their own little ice business.
But I guess how else can Elsa become a crazy cat lady, going wild with her avatar powers and granting life left and right. ( The after credits was hilarious, but also made me even more worried about Elsa. Maybe someone needs to give her the be equivalent of Frankenstein, because I don't think she's ready to be mom to *that many* living things.)
i♥️🤷♀️🤗😊😂😘😘
The salamander is actually based on Norwegian culture, they just sorta failed to explain that lol
This video should be called “Jenny writes Frozen fan fiction”
"Jenny rewrites the Frozen 2 plot"
Jenny gives frozen 2 plot.
@@em01455 thank you
@@em01455 Jenny reveals that Frozen (2) is just a bad version of A:TLA.
Jenny Writes Frozen 2 With More Heart than the Disney Writing Team
in a weird way your script doctor has a lot in common with the Frozen storyline from Once Upon a Time. They had this character Ingrid come in and meet Anna and Elsa and Elsa's all excited because Ingrid also has ice powers because Ingrid is Anna and Elsa's long lost aunt. But Anna is skeptical of Ingrid and knows that she's up to something fishy including Elsa. It was a pretty good story until it got all tangled up in all the other storylines that OUAT tried to cram into a half-season.
And then Rumpelstiltskin pulled out a Disney magic hat and got thrown out of town.
Is once upon a time a Disney asset? I didn't think they'd be allowed to touch those characters. Interesting! I might have to check out that series.
@@Adamant_Adam OUAT was on ABC which is owned by Disney
@@Adamant_Adam It's a huge mess! but an entertaining mess
i loved the movie like “vibe” wise with the wholesome family moments and i thought olaf was much more likable in this movie but watching it from a critical standpoint it’s so choppy and forced and ugh disappointing
Grace Hopkins ngl the Samantha line took me out lmao
“At least they have their parents! *Their parents are dead.”*
“Alas, change mocks us with her beauty.”
“Anna? Elsa? Samantha? .... Who’s Samantha? I don’t even *know* a Samantha?” *giggle snorts*
I loved Olaf in this. 😅 I was here for it. 😂
I do think some of his “I’m growing up! That means change! But it’s okay! Don’t be scared!” stuff was preetttyyyy heavy handed though. It was annoying and repetitive. I feel like even for little kids, they knocked them over the head with it.
I don’t blame Olaf for that. That was the studio. 🙃
time to make a fifteen hour response video to this where I explain in great detail how you're wrong and frozen 2 is a poetic cinematic masterpiece
red dwarf I actually kind of like a lot of Maulers videos but he really seems like kind of a shitty person
JENNY'S TAKE IS GARBAGE AND HERE'S WHY (3:42:08)
@@Jupiter065 JENNY IS A FASCIST SYMPATHIZER
What are you, a Gimboid?
@@Jupiter065 comments:
They talk about Jenny at 3:34:53
“Elsa! You were the chosen one!”
And then Anna throws her into a volcano
“You were supposed to destroy the elements, not join them!”
“I hate you!”
“You were my sister, Elsa! I loved you!”
seeing the sentence "Anna throws her into a volcano" made my day
That needs to be animated.
SHARK BAIT, HOO HA HA!
any time i think of this fucking scene my immediate thought is japanese google translate
After watching ‘The Making of Frozen 2,’ Jenny was spot on about how this movie was super rushed.
Can we talk about how the solution to the curse on the forest is, “Dam bad, destroy dam,” and this is accomplished by Anna tricking the earth giants into destroying it for her, which implies that it could have been destroyed at any time before all this happened and they just didn’t for no reason. I mean it’s not like the Arendelle soldiers can do anything to stop them. So it kind of suggests the spirits could have solved this all along but didn’t, just because, and the forest people also didn’t solve this just because. Like the forest people never once thought maybe we should wreck the dam? And if we can’t because of the soldiers what about something the soldiers can’t do shit to like the spirits?
According to the movie itself, all of these spirits were asleep the whole time. But that somewhat contradicts with the Woodland people being so familiar with them and figuring out a way to hide quickly.
But it wasn't a problem for the elements to solve. Humans caused this problem and humans had to fix it. The entire issue here was in regards to humans upsetting the balance between them and nature.
The dam was hurting the people of Northundra but it wasn't really hurting the spirits. Prior to the dam, the people and the elements were united. The dam was built due to fear between two groups of humans (which ultimately led to infighting) and that disharmony is what set the elements off. It's why Elsa, a human, is needed to act as a unifying force for the other four elements.
Ultimately, the elements went "Okay, we're sealing the forest off until you get your shit together. We'll send this girl and boy off because they seem chill but the rest of you stay in here. When the girl and boy have kids, we'll throw a bit of magic into their kid, and hope that kid will come and fix your human issues. "
Destroying the dam was a metaphor. It was the breaking of what represented fear and disharmony. If the elements destroyed it then it wouldn't have fixed the human's issues.
Except one group of humans was clearly in the wrong and the other was objectively not responsible for any wrongdoing and the spirits apparently had no problem with this.
Also does not change the fact that humans tricked the earth giants into wrecking the dam for them which isn’t exactly humans fixing their own problem.
@@KrazyKelor One group WAS totally in the wrong. Doesn't mean that the harmony wasn't broken.
And tricking the Earth Giants isn't literally destroying it solely themselves, no. But it's humans taking responsibility for its nefarious construction, the king's murderous ways of keeping its harm secret, and the initiative that led to its destruction.
Like, did a stampede kill Mufasa? Sure. But it was a stampede initiated by Scar's direction of the hyenas. I would make the claim Scar was at fault for Mufasa's death even if he didn't literally do the killing. Same as Anna destroying the bridge even if she didn't literally pry the rocks out one by one.
O'Donnell Andrew
But...Scar did literally kill Mufasa.
“At the end of the movie Anna is queen and Elsa... wears he hair down?” 😂😂❤️
This movie felt like cramming a mini-series into 1 movie. It nails the moments it needs to but getting to those moments is kind of a mess.
I can imagine being the kid who always has to play Anna while my friend or sister would always dibs Elsa. I'd be impossibly salty about not being able to do much of anything while they'd say "and I freeze this, I freeze that, I create myself a snow puppy!"
Had a bossy friend in primary school. She was the chosen one. I was some mook that followed her. And whenever she felt like it she'd completely restructure the rules of the world or make everything that had happened no longer canon.
As someone who was very young when the first movie came out and was always Anna, it *is* very boring lol. Like, I learned to love her and all, but it was pretty boring to see all of my friends actually doing stuff and singing *the* song of the movies while I just standed there, watching lol
when i was younger i would play with my neighbors granddaughter in her yard, and after frozen came out she wanted to do a frozen roleplay. she wanted to be elsa so she could sing let it go, and when assigning everyone else parts, she made me play the rest of the characters. my little brother asked what part he got to play, and in complete seriousness, she said "you're the snow." i asked if he could be kristoff or something and she was adamant that he could only play the part of the snow... so his role was to lie on the ground... he tried to spin in a little flurry but she was like "SNOW DOESN'T MOVE" and continued on singing so 😅 i bet he knows how that feels
(in hindsight i definitely should've been more assertive to make sure he got a part, but to be honest i was pretty afraid of her grandma who was watching us, so it was a bit intimidating to upset her)
i was always elsa while my twin was anna but that was just because i had light blonde hair and theirs was brown lol
specifically hated Elsa because Anna and her had the same relationship as me and my sibling and it made me VIOLENT when Elsa brushed Anna off so much
Kristoff had more chemistry with that reindeer loving elemental guy then he ever had with Anna
The movie shipped Anna with Elsa more than it did with Kristoff
@@bemiatto67 where is the lie
*chemistry
they both had total bi energy
Incest exists and that’s not good
"Frozen 1 and a 1/2 and it'll just show Kristoff going to therapy" 😂 honestly, would watch if it's on the same calibre as Lion King 1 1/2
I'm just waiting for Jenny's Frozen au to appear on Wattpad
The world needs it.
Trapped in an frozen with Elsa.
@@HoloYosho lmao!! I mean Elsa did go to that frozen island, and she did go inside those caves, so it makes sense.
It's bizarre to me that two Disney movies came out back to back (Wreck-it Ralph 2, and Frozen 2) where they had iconic duos who were ultimately broken up at the end of the film. Almost as if they planned to have a third movie to 'resolve' that... but there was no indication there was anything else to resolve at the end of either of those films. The idea that the scripts for either film were in flux, as they were making them, makes a lot of sense.
I also really like your idea of giving Anna the Fire Lizard. It was also the cutest thing in the film for me, by far. Also, giving Elsa all the powers would be great for Kingdom Hearts 4 or whatever. Have Elsa team up with Sora and the gang, and just have Elsa wreck all kinds of face on all the Heartless with her super elemental powers.
I feel like there's a fine line between suggesting a change to the story and just a really good fanfic that Jenny is definitely crossing, but I love it.
Sometimes fans write better stories than canon. See a whole lot of Devil May Cry fanfics (excluding stuff like those with reader-insert characters) for example.
sometimes the script doctor has to do major reconstructive surgery