when bruce was standing alone in that ally at the end there was a super rat walking around behind him and all I could imagine was Bruce getting bitten by the rat and that this is the alternate universe where we have Rat Man
"I am an agent of the night... Wherever there is injustice, I shall be there... Whenever you need a hole chewed in your wall, I'll be there... Whenever you need something to scare your wife at 3am by rustling around in the trash, I'll be there... I am the dark Knight! I am Ratman!"
averi pleaaase i work in film and the film industry in my city ONLY talk about a dogs purpose because it was a movie heavily made in my city and like I HEAR TOO MANY PEOPLE STROKING THEMSELVES ABOUT HOW THEYVE WORKED ON A DOGS PURPOSE i just want jenny to tear it apart gh
Speaking as a child of the 80s, the decade was a golden age for clowns. There were 3 clowns for every kid. My personal clown attendant would tuck me into bed each night, and cart me to school each morning on his unicycle. This was at no trivial cost to my working-class parents, of course, but what choice did they have? Any kid without a clown would be laughed out of school, and would run a major risk of becoming a twisted "dark clown."
There was a point in 80-81 where if you through all the clowns in the ocean, you'd be able to walk from New York to Miami without getting your feet wet. Lots of honking noise though.
Jenny, obviously you don't understand. The Joker is weird. He's a weirdo. He doesn't fit in and he doesn't want to fit in. Have you ever seen him without that stupid wig on? That's weird, he's weird.
personally jenny i think that the movie was wonderfully crafted. a key component in the movie you might have missed that basically affects all the plot points is that, at his core, the joker is a creep. he's a weirdo. what the hell is he doing here? he doesn't belong here.
Agreed; it's almost like the Joker was used as a publicised audio loudspeaking device for Society's internal thoughts... a "radio head", if you will.???.?
you see, the joker is weird. he's a weirdo. he doesn't fit in, and he doesn't want to fit in. have you ever seen him without that stupid face paint? that's weird.
True story: In the early 2000's I worked as a clown for a clown agency. We handed out pamphlets, worked at malls, supermarkets, birthday parties etc etc. It's totally a thing.
I had to come back to this video now that I work in publicly funded behavioral health to say that, unfortunately, the therapist kinda is realistic. There is a weird amount of people who have no compassion for anyone they work with and yet complain about feeling persecuted by the system we work in
I went to a mental health counsellor and they straight up said they only became a mental health counsellor because it was easy to get into and didn't require a lot of work. I think it might've been an attempt at trying to connect with me since I was honestly saying some really cynical things to her, but honestly, all it really ended up doing was convincing me more than before how shit the mental health system was in my country.
@@bobjones2959 that sucks man, I don't know where you are now in life, but I'll tell you that you're right to be cynical about the system, but you're worth not giving up on, even if it means interacting with insincere people
@@bobjones2959Wh.. what kind of mental health counsellor were they? Did they have a license? Were they a psychotherapist? What country do you live in? I've been in school for years to become a counsellor and it is by no means an easy process. You need a bachelor's and a masters (in my country anyway) to become a registered psychotherapist/counsellor
The biggest problem with making a character study about a "crazy" person like Joker is that most movie writers don't realize that "crazy" people still have an internal logic to their thoughts and actions, even if that internal logic is errant. They're not just acting randomly, there's always a cogent thought process there, even if others don't understand it.
exactly! like i've had my fair share of delusions and irrational thoughts thanks to mental illness, but my brain isn't just random disconnected scribbles. i have a lot of problems with magical thinking bc of my ocd but even though i know objectively that those thoughts i'm having are borne of mental illness, my brain still manages to make it seem rational and logical in the moment. if i were able to just dismiss all my crazy or intrusive thoughts and recognize them as irrational while i am having them, i wouldn't be mentally ill. i also feel like it's such a cop out and a tell re: the lack of research on mental illness that was done in the writing of this film that arthur's problems feel very much like a random assortment of symptoms of various disorders and that he's generically Crazy. i'm not saying they necessarily needed to give him a canonical diagnosis but the could've at least chosen the symptoms of a specific disorder to assign to him instead of making him just. Nonspecific Crazy Person.
@@ShadowMan64572 I'm sorry, are you asking if it's scientifically proven that human beings with disorders have thoughts behind their actions?? Hate to be the one to break it to you but we had this covered before it was known that the brain was responsible for thought.
@@HeavenlyHavoc That is one hilarious strawman lol. I never said disordered people can't have thoughts behind their actions, I was arguing the possibility that not all of them HAVE to have consistant logic. Insanity is a thing; did you know that it's a thing? Incredible concept, I know lmao
😂 You seem like you are one of the people who will give a hard time to people like Arthur. I can tell you dont like the movie. Kindness is cool, "you wouldn't get it"
@@vmoonlight4962please log off and stop making up ways everyone else is bad. it was a joke and an opinion on a movie that had absolutely nothing to do with whether people support or bully weirdos. also, the movie isn’t an indie production made by and for weirdos, it’s a blockbuster for an expensive and mainstream intellectual property starring Joaquin Phoenix. you’re reaching hard.
The sonic the hedgehog movie is an animated comedy lmao I think anyone would find it a little weird if just about anyone clapped after an animated cOMedy
That Mamma Mia edit made me realize Joker shouldve been a Musical EDIT: Ok, I hear what you are saying people. Apparently this didnt work out. But I really think Ive got it this time. Joker 3 should absolutely be a baseball movie.
@@AddBowIfGirl I had originally thought it was a quote from Margaret Thatcher that has suddenly gained a surprising level of revitalization, but I'm starting to have my suspicions that there is some kind of groupthink origin that I'm not privy to.
@Corwin Rainier It's just a meme playing off statements that begin with that phrase which often amount to shallow critiques.... I mean I guess you can call memes groupthink but that's super weird, dude
This was re- recommended to me in the storm of internet outrage post- Joker 2. For a second I thought it was a sequel called 'Well, I Didn't Like Joker 2' because that would actually be the funniest thing to happen, both in and about the movie
Except it wasn't a day. Every day of his life was bad. All that stuff that went really bad for him to turn him into the Joker happened over a week at least.
The real message of the Joker: a whole lot of people will get really passionately behind a person or people they like without having any care or understanding of what they do or stand for.
That's what I really got from it, Arthur didn't really have a true point besides a sort of twisted revenge, but everyone else thought he was in some way
the joker struck me as a movie that's supposed to have some kind of hard hitting message, but they forgot to put the message in so its just an hour and a half of weird uncomfortable stuff happening
@@ibtarnine ok lol. have you considered that maybe the reason other people aren't picking up on the message you're getting is because you're actually just projecting.
@@bogwife7942 that isn't why. i don't criticize fiction geared towards women just because the message doesn't speak to me personally as a man, i just accept that it's not for me and i read something else. why can't you do the same?
Well she did say "I look like bilbo baggins", even though she looks nothing like him. Guess she just thought " oh I'm wearing a red coat and this guy is also wearing a red coat"
Jenny I’m playing Donna in a production of Mamma Mia at the moment and now I know I won’t be flailing my arms during winner takes it all just to please you
theres something almost poetic about todd phillips using arthur as a mouthpiece for how he feels about no one finding him funny and not realizing that, as you said, arthur's problem isn't that he's offensive. he's just not funny.
I just find it hilarious that Todd Phillips was out there complaining about how he can't make "edgy" humor anymore because people are too sensitive these days the same year JoJo Rabbit won an Oscar. You know, that critically acclaimed comedy about a child in the Hitler Youth who has an imaginary friend Hitler played by the films director.
Exactly. You can make movies about heavy topics, what these dingbats don't understand is that you still have to be sensible with how you're treating the villain and not side with him while also understanding the weight of the situation
@@daniellee9328 you would think, right? But it’s easy to accidentally slip into antisemetic sentiments, especially when you have internalised antisemetic issues you haven’t addressed; and some anti-nazi comedy seems to take the piss more out of the scale of the Holocaust, or it’s methods, and less about the fact that Jewish people (also: Romani people, the disabled, poc and gay people) specifically were the ones targeted. That’s just what I’ve spotted, anyway.
@@jeffersonadams8711only difference being that one of those things is supposed to be a literal blockbuster feature film and the other one is just a youtube video w her opinion. weird take.
I dont remember where I heard this, but with the twist ending, someone once said "if the twist is more boring than the alternative, dont have a twist" ie, it was a made up story, the characters were dreaming, etc.
@@nilsjohnson2636 The point I think she was making is that many men write women horribly across media, so when this woman was turned on by the weird stalker, and laughing at his terrible jokes, it didn't register as not normal and maybe part of a delusion because some men would write a woman like that without the delusion. A commentary on the greater media and not this movie.
@@headflap7569 @headflap I never said that was what the movie was trying to say. Neither did OP. I explained the op's comment on why they didn't even second guess why the woman love interest would fall in love with her weird stalker since women are often written so badly in other movies. Plenty of movies reward predatory/weird men for having the woman they act predatory towards fall for them. Be it women falling for kidnappers, stalkers, or other toxic/violent/obsessive behaviors. If anything, I would say the subversion of the trope is a good point hidden inside the rest of what Joker is trying to say, as many will see the woman falling for him and just handwave it to usual bad writing of women, or as a nice romance, he was able to find in a woman who gets him a somewhat, before the reveal says, "Why would you think this would ever work out? That isn't how people work." So to rephrase my first comment: OP was critiquing the trope found in writing women in media, a trope that Joker actually subverts in saying, "Only someone mentally unstable would actually think this type of relationship would work, or that a woman would actually react in a 'rewarding' way to men who do this." Hope that clears up any miscommunication.
Remembering how absolutely incandescently enraged a bunch of reddit dudes got over this video... good times. We have made absolutely no progress since this video was posted but it's still funny to look back on a bunch of comments openly being like "You're a WOMAN, of COURSE you wouldn't understand the struggles of a MAN" like that isn't an extremely concerning thing to say in public
Isn't that the same phrase that literally thousands of women say every day though? "You're a man, of course you wouldn't understand the struggles of a women". Also, this movie had nothing to do with gender and was based solely on the depiction of a mentally ill person breaking bad due to the fictional culture around him. It was a character study and that's it. Every single person on the internet made it out to be way bigger of a deal than it actually was.
@@ashleysmith746 Who are these weird dudes? All I've seen are mostly respectful disagreements with a few weirdos like everywhere else on the internet.
@@ashleysmith746 OP said that saying in public that women do not understand the struggle of men is 'extremely concerning'. That certainly suggests that OP believes that such an opinion is not acceptable. I do think that there is a gendered part of the story, in that I think more men deal with issues of feeling invisible and overlooked by society than do women. Women to a greater degree deal with unwanted attention, whilst men to a greater degree deal with lack of attention. That is not to say that 'a woman can't understand the struggle of men' - I think that is blatantly sexist to say - but it's hardly surprising that more men identify with that struggle.
@@theWebWizrd There are literally so many accounts of how women are treated as being invisible compared to men. The constant need for the struggle to be symmetrical smells like negligent narcissism which is why men admitting they think that way is concerning. Maybe men just don't struggle as much as women. Maybe you should stop avoiding that reality as unflattering as it may seem.
Remember writers: The Joker makes sense. Every good Joker has always just made sense. Animated Joker is basically just a narcissistic crook, he just wants money, power and attention and likes getting it in funny ways but doesn't mind being more subtle and mundane if he needs to. He reacts violently when someone steals the spotlight or denies him in any way and he's a sore loser. Every Joker episode lines up with these character elements. Arkham Joker cares more about Batman himself, to the point of vague but undefined homoeroticism and most of his actions in Asylum are based around trying to prove to Batman that they're both essentially the same thing, and while he enjoys the theatrical elements is a lot more brutal and practical in his actual methods. Dark Knight Joker is all about proving that he's "not crazy" by making other people act in ways that are just as twisted and evil as he is, he's a reckless misanthrope with something to prove and only uses theatrics as part of that specific goal or to build his own personal myth (as a foil to Batman's methods), and doesn't care about money or power, just the statement. I could go on but I won't. All the best Jokers that people remember and care about in media are Jokers that have a consistent reason to act the way they do. In fact, most of them are sociopaths but otherwise totally mentally healthy and in control of their actions and just play up the "I'm a crazy clown I can't be predicted wheehoo!" thing to their benefit or because they think it's funny.
Also, the best Jokers don't really need a background that is concrete to say why they are the way they are(unlike this crappy movie, but it spends so much time focusing on the backstory that we never see him be Joker).
@@phousefilms but there are also very concrete theories (idk if its been disproven or not), that the entire movie was told unreliably by the joker, like all the other times he told an unreliable backstory in the killing joke or the dark knight. i think it's unsettling that as we come to know more and more about arthur, it is revealed to us that even his actual origin and birth is vague, that he was able to convince himself that his mom was innocent, and convince himself about a lot of different things, and he might have been able to convince the psychologist at the end, and by proxy the audience, that he made the entire thing up and that we could never get it. i think by the time arthur was announced as joker, we start to lose touch with him and to me, this climaxes in how we'll never know what he said to the camera. but this is just my experience watching the film and its highly subjective tho :P also, a very prominent joker that ive seen talked a lot about is the white night (?) joker who became sane and ran for mayor. backstory wise, i think his is like a single tile of concrete, not enough to empathize and justify him but we can understand his psychotic actions and criminal activities. despite the twist at the end, i still think this iteration of the joker is likeable because we know where he was coming from :)
The setting WAS pretty cool and well-realised, but I do think that setting it in 1981 had less to do with making the parallels to Taxi Driver/King of Comedy more overt, or making a commentary on Reagan-era cuts to mental health services than Todd Phillips simply couldn't think of another way to write around the fact that Arthur was constantly smoking indoors
🤣🤣 That did not go anywhere I could have expected, you made me laugh so hard!!! 🤣🤣💀💀 I remember my parents being asked if they wanted to be seated in the smoking or non-smoking section of the restaurant, and this comment just grabbed my funny bone and tickled it so aggressively, I'm like just dead from laughing. Thank you for sharing!!
It was indeed odd and a bad decision. Think of what could have been done if Joker was set in the present; so many new things that cause loneliness and alienation exist now as opposed to then. But it scarcely would have mattered if the writing remained shit.
It's not that deep, it's very simple and to the point despite a couple of red herrings. But it makes a lot of people here uncomfortable so they have to engage in massive mental gymnastics to shoot it down.
@@_Ikelos maybe it's just a bad movie bro. it's got a shit script completely carried by the acting. it's got cringe politics shoehorned in like the purge. it drags hard and it lingers on the same shit til the end scene. it tries way too hard to "subvert expectations" and just ends up subverting being good. imagine how good it could've been if it was a straight up dark comedy. cut out the unnecessary shit like the mum and the protests. make it a twisted version of a superhero origin. instead it's just the first 20 minutes repeated over and over for 2 hours until the talk show scene
I'd say to "get" why so many people liked this movie, you have to have a bit of a background that Jenny and the other detractors mostly don't have. In my case, it helps that I was a big comics fan in the 1990s when the fandom for mainstream comic books was at its apogee. That was an ideal time to learn some of the lore underlying the movie's main themes, such as: 1. Why all the indecisiveness about whether any of this story happened or not? Because the Joker's origin has *always* been (in his own words) "multiple-choice" and this movie certainly wasn't going to change that. If this movie had tried to make the Joker's origin absolutely unambiguous, it would have been going against nearly eight decades of the comic books' lore. 2. Why the movie's indecisiveness about politics? Because like the movie itself, the comic books' various iterations of the Joker have so often been a kind of Rorschach test onto which people project their own beliefs and ideologies. The movie's main point is self-demonstrating: that in analyzing some controversial incident or phenomenon, *especially* in a highly politicized setting (such as Gotham in an election year), people will tend to see what they want to see. 3. Why the story's focus on the society rather than on the character? Because another longstanding part of the comics' lore has been to answer the question "Killing the Joker sure seems like it would solve a lot of problems, so why doesn't Batman just do that?" with "No, the Joker is only a symptom of Gotham's depravity, not a root cause, so killing him wouldn't really solve anything." Hence why Arthur Fleck is such a nonentity throughout the movie; to show that if anyone were to kill him, Gotham's cruel and heartless society would simply twist some other lowly nonentity into a new Joker or maybe even somebody worse.
On the note of Arthur going “What do you get when you take a mentally ill person…” and how “mentally ill” was too tame as far as language goes for the supposed time period: One thing this movie was sorely lacking is colorful dialogue. So many people in the period between 1920 and 1980 spoke with such verbose vocabulary. Part of the appeal with Heath Ledger’s version of the Joker is how impactful each and every line of his dialogue is. If it wasn’t some deep insight that put a piece into the puzzle of his personality, it was language that took a concept and made it fucked up in a slightly comedic angle. “Why don’t we cut you up into little pieces and feed you to your pooches? Then we’ll see how loyal a hungry dog really is.” Like goddamn. Not to mention the amount of references to gambling/deck of cards are in his dialogue. He absorbed the wild card nature of the Joker. In this movie, you could replace “mentally ill person” with “someone who isn’t wrapped too tight” or “a person who’s on the brink of insanity” or some other equivalent and, with the right performance, it would’ve made the scene so much more impactful and character-defining. Same goes for much of the other dialogue in this movie.
YES. Finally someone who finally gets it. "A society who treats him like trash?" Oh my god.. It's so fucking cringe. How does shit like this pass through the producers??
@@_Mojius_ Something about script-writing in media has just been so weirdly lazy and by-the-books in recent years. Even great blockbusters like Barbie and Everything Everywhere kind of have their writing a bit easy because everything is so meta- and multiverse-pilled nowadays, so writing in that way is kinda really easy right now. I feel like it shouldn’t be this difficult to get writing and performances that don’t feel reminiscent of modern problems/talking points 😭
@@_Mojius_ At what point in the movie should they have gave arthur some witty shakespearean dialogue? A lot of the premise of the film kinda depends on the fact that he is ineloquent and off putting. If you don't want to see that depicted ever then that's fine but don't frame it as a failure on the part of the film
@@utryping you're forgetting that dialogue tends to be written as the most fitting thing for a character to say in any moment, even the most realistic dialogue has to give way to the flow of the scene and the movie's pacing. there's nothing shakespearean about cracking a dark joke/acting like a fully realised character even with a character like arthur who stumbles, he naturally thinks in a way that produces jokes and "witty" lines (considering he has a whole book, it's a conscious effort too), so when he comes into his own, it would be an impactful moment for that wit to roll off his tongue naturally. it's his moment in the sun and he's certain of what he's going to do by that point, his confidence has reached a head for the first time in his life, people idolise him, he's going to "show the world what happens". it's too perfect an opportunity NOT to write something that fully enhances the moment. even just saying "a fuc'ed up loser" would work because he's lost his patience and inhibition, and it reflects how he sees himself and how he thinks the world sees him. (nothing shakespearean in a crass sentence like that) as for the rest of the film, stumbling is fine but i think that moment in particular could've benefitted from some venom, or he reaches the flow he's always been after. either way works as the endpoint of his growth (not to say there wasn't any. it'd enhance it)
Plenty of comics have gotham as unrealistically shitty but still believable. Hell Hub City exists in thr DC universe to explicilty one up Gotham in shittiness and still isnt as hamhanded as Jokers Gotham. When you can't be more subtle than a literal comic book you're just a shitty world builder.
@@FourLetterLWord ... Except 1970's- 80's New York was very similar to this. It was a bad time. I loved how they brought that rough time back to life and it's so naive to think this was over the top.
@@Sil3ntKn1ght there is a difference between pointlessly villainous and believably malicious. All the people who antagonized Fleck had either no internal consistency or just no sensible motive at all, their entire motivation as characters was to be there to antagonize Fleck as plot devices. It's a textbook "kick the puppy" trope where it benefits them in no way as characters to do what they do, it just helps a bad story teller communicate in the bluntest and least sophisticated way that theyre "bad" people; emphasis on the bad and not the "people." It's also just kind of funny that Fleck's big thing is whining about being invisible when literally everyone in the movie exists to directly interact with him personally. You can be invisible, or people can incoherently go out of their way to victimize you specifically, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
The reason Todd Phillips can't make any more Hangover movies is because he made the same movie 3 times and burned out his audience. The fact that you described Joker as the same half an our repeated ad nauseum is consistent with Todd Phillips' style in that regard.
That's a weird take. Why would you want more than one or two Hangover movie in the first place? Of course it's repetitive, the premise doesn't leave much space for something else. They knew that from the start and made hangover 2 and 3 to milk the audience, as you should expect, but internally the first one was pretty entertaining without repetitions.
There never should have been a second hangover, and the third one should have the second. If there was a second one at all, that is. It really should have just been a single movie.
did he? hangover 3 was way different. And I think much like the Joker, he tried to do something different under the guise of an existing franchise so he could get funding. I really dont get the feeling he wanted to make hangover 3, atleast not in the same tone as hangover one
Surprisingly, the first movie holds up pretty well. I mean its not perfect. Comedy ages the fastest out of any art, and its the most likely to age poorly. Thats especially true for 2000s comedies that are already trying to be raunchy. But there is a good number of decent jokes in there. Then they just made the same movie again but worse, then they did it again. People who really like the hangover, are not exactly looking for a fine dinning movie experience, and even then they where annoyed with the same movie but made two more times.
'its just that when a comedian says 'nobody likes my jokes because they're offended' my brain automatically filters that as 'nobody likes my jokes,' which is a good warning to receive from a comedian' the most efficient analysis of butthurt comedian culture i've ever seen
@@funkyfranx There will always be someone laughing, the question is who is it you want to make laugh. I don't think offensive jokes are impossible to make, as long as they have some nuance to it. Sure there will always be people that overreact to the smallest things but I don't feel like they have so much power if it is really unjustified, you have seen how ineffective cancel culture is in reality. But the whole shock humor thing, when you just say something extremely offensive and that's the joke, isn't working anymore.
I had one huge gripe as a schizophrenic...WE ARE NOT DANGEROUS! Only 1% of the global population is on the psychotic spectrum. And of that less then 5% ever harm another person seriously (lke no more then average people who may get into an arguement). VS the 25% of us that admit having harmed ourselves in a serious/life threatening capacity. And remember we tend to be paranoid so that 25% is probably higher just some wont say due to fear of hospitalization. So all this movie is is a visual confirmation of old stigmas. The very stigma that results in 44% of fatal Canadian cop shootings being mentally ill people in need of help....
@@atanaZion the psychotic spectrum is both mental illness and Neurodivergent. Sometimes it is caused by trauma or drugs/booze. But others have a major genetic risk at play too.(ie my ma was psychotic AND I have childhood trauma. So made my risk higher). But it doesn't just inpair emotions, it hits cognitive stuff too. Like memory issues, social hurdles, or even speech issues.
As a multimillionaire i was confused when Bruce Wayne started wearing a bat costume to fight crime...like, we very rarely do that shit...also, stop talking.
as a schizophrenic, strongly disagree. we are more likely to be abused than others and less likely to commit violent crime, but this felt super accurate and you should probably be glad they're not straight up calling mpd schizophrenia at least :3 people on psychotic breaks are less dangerous than, say, inner city american blacks, but. these things happen, and it's very on character and well portrayed. he is not inherently dangerous, rather, abused past his breaking point by everyone around him. also don't recall them throwing diagnoses out in the movie.
Life of Pi was a great examination of unreliable narrators and storytelling to prove deeper points. Unreliable narrators are plot devices, not crutches. Everything put into a story is put there intentionally, so you can’t cop out with “oh it was fake” because all fiction is fake that doesn’t make it pointless.
I didn't like Life of Pi. I thought it was pretentious, and trying too hard to be a work of great literature. As a result, it didn't have any meaning outside of the shallow subtext Martel decided it should have. Shakespeare's plays are so multi-faceted and debated precisely because he doesn't try to shove a single interpretation down our throats. Good for a high school English class. Terrible everywhere else. When I met Yann Martel at a lecture series, all he talked about was some Christian pseudo-epistemological nonsense, and that is exactly what this book is: a man deciding the only way he can continue following a religion he as a rational man knows is superstition is if nothing is really true and nobody really knows anything. Well, let me tell you something, Martel. You're not the first person in the world to come up with solipsism. It's about the most played out theory in all of metaphysics. It's impossible to disprove, and it doesn't lead to any further truth whatsoever. Only someone who knows nothing about philosophy thinks it's deep. This isn't even getting into all the cultural appropriation of a Canadian writing about an Indian Hindu/Muslim. I am embarrassed to call Yann Martel my countryman.
"you made your movie for some reason you're just unwilling to commit to what it is" is a perfect summation for so many critiques of so many movies thank you for putting it into words
Projecting "reason" on movie makers is a lot like projecting human emotions on your dog. No, he's not ashamed. He just knows master is mad. A dog is incapable of shame.
@@harrymills2770 ok besides the awful metaphor that dehumanises filmmakers, filmmakers do need to have reason balancing good writing and making it profitable at the same time, yeah obviously companies want to make money, but actual makers of the film want to make it onto the classics list, or be the film thats the hilight of that year, not everything is a cash grab.
One thing that I think is just hurtful is when they show joker writing down things people thought were funny as something "weird" or "creepy". As someone with both autism and ADHD, I'm constantly making mental notes of what is seen as funny so I don't look super socially awkward, but making a murderer do something neurodivergent people do just feels...off (not to say all schizophrenic people/ppl with schizoaffective disorders are murderers and *don't* struggle in social situations, the movie just kinda villainizes people with mental disabilities). And I will never stop saying Joker in the Lego batman movies is unironically a rly good joker portrayal of a guy who just wants attention and has been fighting batman so long he doesn't know what to do when that ends lmao
as someone who is very close friends with an pearson who suffers from various psychological disorders (schizofrenic, psychotic episodes, DID) i feel Joker is a very harmful movie, as it portrays Arthur's actions as somewhat justified and portrays therapy as useless or insuficient, its clear the movie has no interest in portraying mentally ill people as people, only as victims of their circumstances with no autonomy of their own, Arthur was "destined" to shoot Murray from the very beginning of the movie
@@Memento_mori2222 It’s weird because as destined as it was for Murray to be shot by Arthur, it also was the most senseless of the Joker’s killings in a movie that went out of its way to make it seem like Arthur/Joker HAD to have understandably justified reasons for the ones he killed. If Arthur didn’t have to be a guy Batman has to fight later on maybe, Franklin is left alive to ponder why a man shot himself on air to make some kind of point about society abandoning him leaving him no other choice beyond taking his own life.
there is no such thing as over-praising Lego Joker or praising him for too long. if i had any writing skills i'd write a biography of Lego Joker with transcripts of days long interviews with Zach Galifianakis while we're under the influence and in full joker impressions.
@@aztn19 it's also kind of funny that the writers, for how much they wanted to slap DC lore and Batman setup over this movie that had very little to do with tights-wearing capes, couldn't just resolve to position Arthur as the pre-cursor/eventual inspiration to the Joker that Batman faces. Meaning he could be allowed to die in the story and be seen as a martyr to a wave of criminals that the "next" Joker emerges from. it's not too big a reach given the number of fans that already theorized or even outright believed in this idea before/after the movie came out.
It tries to be deep but ends up saying nothing at all because it was written by a coward. It should have latched onto the class disparity theme, but instead downplayed the radical discourse by making Joker state that he's not political. This is something very common in these kind of movies, because they know class analysis is very polarizing among people confortable with the status quo, which most of their audience. Ironically, the writer complains about people being "too PC" but he's guilty of *actual* political correctness.
@@ataricidal The film was not that "We live in a society". The film was about the society not paying attention to the lower class of society, mental issues, and walking over the people that die because they dont matter to them. And how the media villifies them, without trying to understand why, when mostof the time it is the media and rich's fault for villifying them, and in exchange lionizing them. Because just like what Thomas Wayne did, villified those that went on strike. Only to than lionize the idol of the clown. Leading to chaos and outrage. And Joker only related to that, because he himself was mocked by those above him. Especially his idol.
@@riley8385 Well, your endorsement of the pc culture kinda pushes that. Because lets face it. Theres nothing fond about modern day feminism. I bet if joker was whaman. You would of liked it cause girl power. It wasnt meant to be political as a character, it was a political film. Actually left leaning. And it was something that influenced Arthur to join in the end. Because he had a purpose. He was loved for who he was. He had the attention he was deprived of. Something that could drive any human mad.
John Clark the movie is overrated. Wasn’t even a Joker film, it was just about some depressed unstable guy who eventually goes apeshit because no one likes him but they made him the joker so it makes money. I completely agree that it’s the embodiment of “we live in a society” 😂. It’s a depressed teen’s dream
Not really, he was going to kill himself in front of Murray because of that, but then he got so into his nerves and wouldn't stop confronting him, and Arthur(Joker by that point) just said enough and offed him.
I think a sequel would ruin the first movie (it would seriously risk 'jumping the shark', so to speak - imho). I feel a movie like Joker should stand alone as a single vessel for its story, message and narrative.
@@Moodymongul My ideal "Joker 2" would be the first Joker, except everything is different until we cut back to the end scene where the therapist asks "What's so funny?" Then everything after that is the same. But otherwise, it's a completely different movie (might not even have clown symbolism). That way it can be the "multiple choice" aspect that the Killing Joke Joker endorsed in his backstories.
I think a telltale sign of a lazy cop-out is when they try to have it both ways. If you accept praise for your movie being deep, thoughtful and realistic, you can't dismiss criticism saying it was just nonsense spoken by a lunatic. If it was nonsense, then the people who praised you were *also* reading too much into it.
MaMiMuMa I didn’t realize I was an angsty weirdo because I struggle with ADHD, anxiety, and depression, but I guess I should tell that to my boyfriend, friends, family, and my normal, fulfilling social life
The fact that there's a 12 hour response to this video where a few faceless man-children just get upset the whole time is actually insane to me. Like, imagine spending that much time combing over every second of someone else's opinion on a movie. So bizarre.
Surprise, people like to analyze arguments on the Internet. By posting your opinion publicly, you give other people permission to discuss your words. Do you have an example of anything they said that you disagree with? Also, they cover Angry Joe's Joker review in that stream as well as read superchats and discuss other topics, so to present it as a "12 hour response to this video" is misleading although understandable you would conclude that. Basically, she gets a lot wrong factually in this video, so to claim it's "just an opinion" is fairly disingenuous on your part. But I'd still be willing to listen if you have any actual substantive discussion to add that thousands of other people before you haven't already complained about. Cheers!
@@towerofgodfan4107 yet you still won’t give me an example of anything they said that you disagree with. So bizarre. Please try to know what you’re talking about so we can have an actual discussion of substance? Like seriously, you’re giving me nothing. At least pretend to have reasons for thinking the way you do?
@@Clipzilla42dude get over yourself, no one is gonna watch a 12 hour video complaing that they didn't like this video if they're a fan of Jenny to begin with, acting like you have the moral high ground because someone won't subject themselves of 12 hours of content they don't like is stupid
@@mirillis6083 So you find everyone who criticizes a video they didn’t watch one single second of to be in the right, and if someone asks questions about what they said that’s so egregious, that’s bad? Makes perfect sense! I’m not “forcing” you to watch anything. If you’re gonna talk about something I expect you to at least have some knowledge pertaining to the discussion. But no one can give an actual example, why would they when you can just say “bad cuz 12 hours” even though they also reviewed another review in the same stream. Lmao why do you think I have the moral high ground or implied that in any way? Because I choose the words I use with purpose? Because I’m asking for substantive dialogue? The bar is truly on the floor, so thank you for that…
I couldn't figure out what her outfit reminded me of and then she lifted her hands to show the big cuffs and I said ah ha! ...Gaston and Belle's bastard mistake child.
it’s crazy that she gave a reasonable and pretty well argued perspective on a movie, but one that she totally presented as subjective and her opinion, yet people still freaked out and downvoted her obsessively
I had the same reaction when she first said "They don't care about people like you..." I was like, hold up, shes been portrayed as someone who doesn't actually listen or care about his mental health... and then she finished with "...or people like me." Ahhh she only said that because she's thinking about herself while he's telling her about his mental health. So I think it fits.
It totally fits with his entire experience with the process of working with the social worker, and her final comment is the send-off fuck you to Arthur: the whole time he’s been going through the process he’s been thinking and telling her how he feels fucked up and this isn’t helping him-and then at the very end she basically validates all he’s been thinking of his experience. “Yeah, you’re cut off and on the street with your problems, and I never gave a shit about you anyway.” How could it have happened any other way?
This is why she does this "out of character". Bc its who she really is. Most characters are like this in the movie. Pretending to like Author until they break bc they think he'll get better if they just sit and put on a mask.
This is so validating to go back to and watch. I wasn't good at articulating my feelings on the film but you did it brilliantly while also adding plentiful new points I never thought of that I can say "HEY! That WAS werid!" Thank you
Jordan Adams I accidentally clicked on your profile and I am so amused by the playlist entitled “Best Song.” I know that isn’t even close to the point. I just found it funny.
"You promise me super rats, bring me the super rats!" Even as someone who liked Joker very much, I must agree with this piece of critique. What the hell, Todd Phillips?
Actually, I think I've seen a big rat at the background somewhere (it might be the scene where Arthur is kicking a dumpster, not sure). So there at least one super-rat!
I love that in this ostensibly epic and subversive movie about a media icon-- that there would be a random scene of him just kicking a dumpster. All this drama, these story elements, the real world culture wars-- a clown kicking a dumpster. Come to think of it, that's the real statement here-- and it's funny as hell!
Super Rats were an issue in New York during that time period. It’s just to show how bad the city’s gotten. Like everything’s going to shit and now there’re super rats. It could also symbolize the “rats” like The Wayne’s.
I actually cheered during the Talk Show scene in the theatre because he says "society" and I had just spent the previous two hours waiting for the memes.
now i want the cast, crew & writers of joker to make a mama mia sequel and the cast crew & writers of mama mia to make a joker sequel. and it be released on the same day.
I fucking loved the joker but she is 100% correct in her points. The way she breaks it down and her talking points. They all make sense and are true. Still liked the movie though but I'm not too stupid to look passed my own opinion to agree.
I liked it too, it was mostly Joaquin's acting that pulled me in. Jenny is right about it all though. I thought it was this semi-deep movie, but the more I thought about it and now from hearing someone who knows their shit discuss it-- I see it for what it is. I'm with you, liked the movie but 100% agree with Jenny.
I actually liked the movie but I love how pissed off fans got from this single video. Lol, guess people don't like hearing opposing ideas, almost like *that* *was* *a* *theme* *in* *the* *movie*
I think people are more pissed than usual at those dont like this movie or think its boring because often they cant emphatize as well with arthur, and what carries this movie is that we can emphathize with him, and the less similar his life is to yours the less likely it is you'll enjoy it. Much of what drives arthur to become the joker is a lack of empathy from people around him, and so some fans see those who cant empathize slightly more as the same kind of people who bring about arthurs descent.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that raving moron Mauler and his fellow losers made an *almost twelve hour video* griping about how much they hated Jenny for not liking this movie. Seriously, dudes? Somehow, I don't think DC Comics or Warner Brothers are losing any sleep over this one slightly influential young gal on TH-cam kinda not liking their movie that made, like, A BILLION DOLLARS at the box office!
i (as a woman) was initially super put-off by this movie and it’s reception without having seen it. in fact it took a couple years for me to sit down and watch it but then i … genuinely really really loved it haha. that being said jenny’s critique here is entirely valid, and it just goes to show that different views take different things away from the same movie. that also being said, people are insane for attacking her based on something she very clearly and explicitly said was simply HER OPINION lmfao
What do you mean by "attacking"? Alot of people in here are labeling real straightforward criticism as attacks and it's really hampering the discussion around this movie.
@@tevenpowell8023my darling, if i meant she was receiving valid criticism i would have said that. but what i *said* was people in the comments were attacking her in often quite misogynistic ways. people are allowed to disagree with her, but that’s obviously not what i was talking about.
@@scarredk0 idk had good cinematography, unique and interesting plot, colorful costumes and scenery, phenomenal acting. of course this is all IMO if someone didn’t like it (like jenny) i’m not gonna fight them
@@trueMAXIMUS Wow, it took one response to get to mysoggyknees. Ironic, given you're patently a misandrist who decided to hate the film because it was overtly "male".
I really like the Joker when every action he does is in pursuit of trying to prove a point that is wrong. For example, in The Dark Knight he tries to prove that everyone is just like him by getting the people on the boat to blow up each other, but they don’t and he tries to just blow them all up. In the Killing Joke, he tries to prove that all it takes is one bad day for anyone to end up like him, yet the subject he tests this on (James Gordon) proves him wrong. I think the best backstory for the Joker, if you have to do one, is that regardless of who he may have been before, he was at least a very disturbed, nihilist person that craved some kind of attention. His transformation into the Joker is only a push into a more extreme, theatrical version of who he already was. I imagine being similar to the scene from Fight Club in which Tyler Durden shames the Narrator for trying not to die on the highway and convinces him to let go of the wheel. Whether something happened to make him do it, or he just decided to do so on his own, the Joker has permanently let go of the wheel. He believes that his decision to let go is something everyone should do and that we’re all just like him. However, most other people won’t because they aren’t lunatics like he is. I always appreciate stories that prove the Joker wrong and take him down from his “ideological high-horse”. He thinks his actions make him ‘ahead of the curve’. He isn’t special; he’s just crazy.
Well said! I personally love paragon heroes and everyone loves to hate a pure evil villain, but with the rise of sympathetic villains, I think many screenwriters struggle with the difficulties of wanting to have villains who the audience can empathise with. The idea is of course that they think being sympathetic will make the villains seem more complex and nuanced. So they give the villains sympathetic backstories and nuanced critiques of society and then forget to actually make them in the wrong on an ideological level. It’s not very nuanced to have the villain say ‘[this] is a valid critique of society’ and the protagonist say ‘but you’re violent in your means so I will violently stop you’. Well done for stopping the bad guy, but the audience takeaways can be all over the place, wondering what the movie is actually saying. Villains need to be motivated and believe their own motivations are worthwhile (not necessarily ‘good’, but worthwhile to them), but they should also be wrong in an ideological sense, so the hero can oppose them and explain why their take is wrong. Motivated =/= sympathetic and confusing the two means you end up with whining long think-pieces about why [villain] was actually right and you wonder if the screenwriter actually agrees with the villain’s terrible opinions but was obligated to make the heroes win. There’s a place for all kinds of villains (Puss in Boots: The Last Wish is amazing in that regard, amongst its many other strengths), but this problem is unique to the edgier ‘we live in a society’ type of stories.
I liked the dancing a lot actually. He always danced after moments of power, as he got his gun or as he defended himself and took control over something by killing the Wallstreet guys in the subway. I like how you can see how much more comfortable he feels in his skin each time he dances, while at first he does it in private and very much in a defensive way, taking up little place and being a little unsure how to move, he later dances very openly and out in public even and his moves are powerful and confident.
and the first one was sort of tai chi - contemplative - then, later on, the dances became more fantastical and theatrical. you could track him becoming, very literally, the Clown Prince
being in control of your body translates into being in control of your life. think about how powerful and confident a good dancer or acrobat must be, with how effortlessly they can contort and move their bodies (this naturally spills over in the sexual realm too, where power and confidence is a huge component).
I like how the banging his head turnt into dancing. He obviously holds alot of tension in his body and when he was doing that stuff and he danced is shows he was finally calmer
As someone who's brain ain't quite on straight; I can confirm that even my illogical tendencies do follow their own internal logic. Also being a magnet for actually mentally plagued individuals, and befriending them; they also tend towards specified behaviors, even in their delusions.
And as an amateur writer who does tend towards flawed, psychologically troubled characters (they are just more interesting) that even the most outrageously, over the top, super villain level, lunatic characters NEED an underlying motivation that drives them, and need consistency in that motive.
Yeah I have no issue with the joker deluding himself that he isn't political when he's acting about class and all. People lie to themselves all the time. You can make yourself out to be the victim despite doing dickish stuff. Or justify it on some other grounds. But there's usually some inherent logic, at least among the people who can genuinely function.
@@MF-R so that means you cant write a movie about Chaotic neutral or chaotic evil characters...? that is a bummer. comic movies are a good medium to explore chaotic characters because its meant to be over the top at least in some ways.
@@HisSecretSmile You can, you just have to be consistent with them being chaotic, set the limits of their chaotic ways and give them a clear motive. The problem with the Joker is that it seems that him being chaotic is not intentional, it's just a mess. There's a dissonance between what the director was trying to tackle and the way Arthur acts. Example: The narrative is trying to introduce the theme of differences in classes and the tension building between them, but Arthur is constantly running away from it and saying that he doesn't care about it. Ultimately doing nothing with it.
I remember watching Joker and being disappointed by it because it just didn't feel like a film about the character of the Joker. It felt like a more generic story about a loner who doesn't fit in that has been told better in other movies with the DC comics stuff layered on top just so they could make money off of the name. Then I watched Taxi Driver for the first time a year or so later and understood the movie a lot better. It's more or less a not-as-good Taxi Driver. Juaquin Phoenix is pretty good, though.
Same. I watched Joker with my sister and I was disappointed for much of the same reasons that Jenny mentions here. I saw Taxi Driver like two weeks later and understood that Joker was more-or-less a homage to that film (and other Martin Scorsese works)
It’s a movie with a great actor that beats you over the head with his acting. Joaquin Phoenix is always great, you don’t have to have him act REALLY REALLY HARD the whole movie. It’s just *all of the acting.* It’s like seeing LeBron James just on the court showing everything he can do as opposed to watching him dominate an actual game. Or like seeing prime Barry Bonds in batting practice. Like, they’re both impressive, but he’s a great player; I’d rather watch him play the game.
It's a sanitized version of Taxi Driver with aspects of The King of Comedy sprinkled in. It wants to be New Hollywood high art sleaze, but isn't sleazy enough or "high art" enough.
THANK YOU. I never believed that this guy could be the same Joker I saw in Batman '89, The Dark Knight, BTAS or even the damned 60s show. This was a well-made, if boring and dreary, movie about a sad boi with bad brains who gets kicked while he's down until he decides to murder some rich dudes. Also starring the character assassination of Thomas Wayne.
Okay I loved all of the video, but honestly, that Mama Mia / Joker trailer mashup was one of the most amazing things I've seen in my life. I honestly wish I could've liked the video five more times just for that alone!
I dont even see any of the sour boys. Its just a bunch of people laughing at "reddit bros" and "owning the incels" Like 98% of the comments are people agreeing with her, wheres the "backlash"
@@Tikky503 Scroll past the comments pushed up by the TH-cam algorithm my dude. Look for the comments with single digit or no likes at all with many replies. Find the comments deeply-buried by the algorithm because they contained offensive language. It's 2022 now, you've got to be aware social media platforms use many algorithms to manipulate the mood of different parts of their sites. Outrage only drives clicks when it's in the title; harmony and positivity in the comment section are what keeps people in a community and coming back for more. Not to mention the majority of backlash came from when this was initially uploaded. Re-enabling the dislike counter via plugins and whatnot should give you more than enough evidence for a backlash. If you have no patience to scroll that far, then sort the comments by newest, you'll definitely find the "fabled" comments you argued don't exist. For instance, 1 month ago: "You mean a privileged, leftist woman didn't like Joker, a film about how society treats men like dogshit and pushes them over the edge? Quite the spicy take indeed."
@@notit7282 society does treat men like dogshit and pushes them over the edge in a lot of different ways, but why did he call her "privileged leftist"?... what did she say that was "left"... Anyway youre right, I dont have patience to scroll to the weeds.
Coronavirus is the only true bad thing this year that probably affected you. Everything else is exaggerated bullshit. And even COVID is technically from 2019.
I really like the idea of them cutting back and forth between Arthur’s story and having his doctor pointing out slight inconsistencies. That’s way better than some slapped on ending scene.
I'd slap on the ending that his story ends up being a complete lie, as "Arthur"is just another of his aliases(like Joseph Kerr, Jack White, etc;)and this is just a therapy session after his latest arrest by the Batman and the therapist asks for his real name, which he never gives(Joker always works better when his backstory is not concrete).
when bruce was standing alone in that ally at the end there was a super rat walking around behind him and all I could imagine was Bruce getting bitten by the rat and that this is the alternate universe where we have Rat Man
raeanne moffat in my version of the movie that exists only in my head that rat.... is Pizza Rat
@@Kona696 Master Splinter??
rat man is real
So that's what makes good rat.
"I am an agent of the night... Wherever there is injustice, I shall be there... Whenever you need a hole chewed in your wall, I'll be there... Whenever you need something to scare your wife at 3am by rustling around in the trash, I'll be there... I am the dark Knight! I am Ratman!"
oh god i really hope "a dog's purpose" trilogy analysis isn't off the table
Please... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do this!!! :)
"A Christmas Prince: The Royal Baby" is due on December 5th 2019, so another trilogy analysis I am anticipating.
please jenny me and my mum need that analysis
averi pleaaase i work in film and the film industry in my city ONLY talk about a dogs purpose because it was a movie heavily made in my city and like
I HEAR TOO MANY PEOPLE STROKING THEMSELVES ABOUT HOW THEYVE WORKED ON A DOGS PURPOSE i just want jenny to tear it apart gh
Me too
Speaking as a child of the 80s, the decade was a golden age for clowns. There were 3 clowns for every kid. My personal clown attendant would tuck me into bed each night, and cart me to school each morning on his unicycle. This was at no trivial cost to my working-class parents, of course, but what choice did they have? Any kid without a clown would be laughed out of school, and would run a major risk of becoming a twisted "dark clown."
This comment deserves more attention.
There was a point in 80-81 where if you through all the clowns in the ocean, you'd be able to walk from New York to Miami without getting your feet wet. Lots of honking noise though.
This made me laugh so hard!
I'm glad I wasn't the only one that grew up this way.
Honestly the most upsetting part of this video is that Jenny endorses the hiring of scab clowns.
Man, this was a funny and lighthearted movie critique. I sure hope no moviebro uploads an 11 hour 44 minute long response video
oh no
Oh, is that what’s up? I was wondering why there was a influx of incels up in these comments.
Wink!
LMAO. What are the chances of that? Right?
@@quietnerdything calling any male who disagrees with you an incel, yikes...
Jenny, obviously you don't understand. The Joker is weird. He's a weirdo. He doesn't fit in and he doesn't want to fit in. Have you ever seen him without that stupid wig on? That's weird, he's weird.
Riverdale was such a train wreck, but you just can't look away
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not...
He goes crazy because he doesn’t know the epic highs and lows of high school football
My favorite part is when joker was dancing to jailhouse rock
@@BooksRebound thanks!
Jenny, you can’t just hire an unlicensed clown for your store closing sale. That’s how you get big trouble with the clown unions.
I mean you make it sound like a joke, but this happened in new york in the old days with garbage men.
They're called Clown Guilds actually.......
lol
I know, she lost all credibility for me with that statement.😒🙄🙃
@@tommenno Yeah but that'd make sense because we need waste collectors (like really badly).
Biggie Cheese is that you?
My favorite part of the joker is Meryl Streep defeating Batman with a single flail of her scarf
The whole theater stood up and clapped!
and yet another nomination
In the words of Honest Trailers, "Yikes! He better find Batman quick... before he turns twelve and overpowers him!"
and the actor who played Batman: Albert Einstein
*Groundbreaking...*
personally jenny i think that the movie was wonderfully crafted. a key component in the movie you might have missed that basically affects all the plot points is that, at his core, the joker is a creep. he's a weirdo. what the hell is he doing here? he doesn't belong here.
Agreed; it's almost like the Joker was used as a publicised audio loudspeaking device for Society's internal thoughts... a "radio head", if you will.???.?
@@Emilightning I wish that was the actual etymology behind their name, instead of a ska number from a mid Talking Heads album
@@emalaw1329 imo that makes it so much better
you see, the joker is weird. he's a weirdo. he doesn't fit in, and he doesn't want to fit in. have you ever seen him without that stupid face paint? that's weird.
I’m a crepe
I’m a weirdough
What the hell am I doughing here?
I donut belong here
True story: In the early 2000's I worked as a clown for a clown agency.
We handed out pamphlets, worked at malls, supermarkets, birthday parties etc etc.
It's totally a thing.
Paul Oxborrow if Jenny hasn’t heard of it, it’s not true.
It's true I was the pamphlets
Hey
That's my reddit copypasta
Was it fun?
@@TwilightFlip Yes! There were about 30 of us. All students at the time, money was good, work was easy.
Before Joker, I didn’t know we lived in a society
And yet...we live in one.
You need a very high iq to appreciate that we live in a society
@@josephroszell yes, this is a very deep movie for very smart people
@@eggi4443 it's the pickle rick of cinema
Get a load of this society!
You don't get it. It's a searing indictment of the clown industry.
😅😂🤣😂🤣😂😅
Lol
Bring back clown jobs! 2024
Underrated comment of the year
Clown-Industrial Complex
The phrase "I'll be generous and skip right over clown talent agency" has been cemented in my brain ever since this video came out
I still wish they called this film Arthur
Imagine how cool that line “introduce me as Joker” would be at the end not knowing it was a Joker film
*woah*
that would be a high level twist
But nobody would've been interested in it. :T
@@gigleorex Word of mouth would do it.
I still think it would've been pretty obvious since it was still in Gotham and involves the Waynes...
@@Lucivius27 oh please. Call it "Arthur" instead of "Joker" and it makes half as much money.
release the video about a dogs purpose trilogy jenny
release it
Release the dogger cut!
Let the dogs out!
@@mattpaxton3528 so SHE let the dogs out!
(Whoof)
"Release the hounds."
@@devinpaul9026 release the drone
Just wanted to let you know that I searched "Mamma Mia" looking for the song and this was the 6th video from the top
It is indeed!
Woah woah woah, didnt expect to see you here. Hi! Your videos are cool:)
@ 11:30
Art deserves an audience.
It’s 7th for me
I had to come back to this video now that I work in publicly funded behavioral health to say that, unfortunately, the therapist kinda is realistic. There is a weird amount of people who have no compassion for anyone they work with and yet complain about feeling persecuted by the system we work in
I work in an adjacent field (Medicaid services for people with disabilities) and man, fucking SAME.
I went to a mental health counsellor and they straight up said they only became a mental health counsellor because it was easy to get into and didn't require a lot of work. I think it might've been an attempt at trying to connect with me since I was honestly saying some really cynical things to her, but honestly, all it really ended up doing was convincing me more than before how shit the mental health system was in my country.
@@bobjones2959 that sucks man, I don't know where you are now in life, but I'll tell you that you're right to be cynical about the system, but you're worth not giving up on, even if it means interacting with insincere people
@@ariannatorres3799Thanks!
@@bobjones2959Wh.. what kind of mental health counsellor were they? Did they have a license? Were they a psychotherapist? What country do you live in?
I've been in school for years to become a counsellor and it is by no means an easy process. You need a bachelor's and a masters (in my country anyway) to become a registered psychotherapist/counsellor
jenny's casual joker cosplay is one of my favourite video outfits yet
Jokerbounding
I didn't even notice but i agree😂
It's pretty fire ngl
"I look like Bilbo Baggins"
@Luigi Nastro You ever danced with the devil in the Shire moonlight?
The biggest problem with making a character study about a "crazy" person like Joker is that most movie writers don't realize that "crazy" people still have an internal logic to their thoughts and actions, even if that internal logic is errant. They're not just acting randomly, there's always a cogent thought process there, even if others don't understand it.
exactly! like i've had my fair share of delusions and irrational thoughts thanks to mental illness, but my brain isn't just random disconnected scribbles. i have a lot of problems with magical thinking bc of my ocd but even though i know objectively that those thoughts i'm having are borne of mental illness, my brain still manages to make it seem rational and logical in the moment. if i were able to just dismiss all my crazy or intrusive thoughts and recognize them as irrational while i am having them, i wouldn't be mentally ill.
i also feel like it's such a cop out and a tell re: the lack of research on mental illness that was done in the writing of this film that arthur's problems feel very much like a random assortment of symptoms of various disorders and that he's generically Crazy. i'm not saying they necessarily needed to give him a canonical diagnosis but the could've at least chosen the symptoms of a specific disorder to assign to him instead of making him just. Nonspecific Crazy Person.
Is this some kind of scientific proven fact, with research done on every single person on the planet, or is it something you just made up?
@@ShadowMan64572 I'm sorry, are you asking if it's scientifically proven that human beings with disorders have thoughts behind their actions?? Hate to be the one to break it to you but we had this covered before it was known that the brain was responsible for thought.
@@HeavenlyHavoc That is one hilarious strawman lol. I never said disordered people can't have thoughts behind their actions, I was arguing the possibility that not all of them HAVE to have consistant logic. Insanity is a thing; did you know that it's a thing? Incredible concept, I know lmao
@@HeavenlyHavoc Heck, idk why I'm limiting this to insane people; NORMAL people don't always have consistant logic lol
Clown college takes years of dedication and is no laughing matter.
I'll thank you not to refer to Princeton that way.
I'm super pissed at Jenny for suggesting that anyone hire clown scabs. If they aren't a licensed clown, show them the damn door!
and to graduate it is no small feet
hahaha i was genuinely convinced of this after watching steve-o’s video on going to clown college
“You can say that again pal”
"That's what happens when you try to make serious movies out of a thing made for kids 80 years ago" is my favorite line of this video lol
And she says that like she's in the majority lmao
😂 You seem like you are one of the people who will give a hard time to people like Arthur. I can tell you dont like the movie. Kindness is cool, "you wouldn't get it"
@dkdraper ?? Lol wtf do you mean by that? What "majority"?
@@vmoonlight4962please log off and stop making up ways everyone else is bad. it was a joke and an opinion on a movie that had absolutely nothing to do with whether people support or bully weirdos. also, the movie isn’t an indie production made by and for weirdos, it’s a blockbuster for an expensive and mainstream intellectual property starring Joaquin Phoenix. you’re reaching hard.
@@soldiaz7261 you would not get it
oh so men can applaud at the end of joker but when i applaud at the end of the sonic movie it’s weird? double standards man
What?
The sonic the hedgehog movie is an animated comedy lmao I think anyone would find it a little weird if just about anyone clapped after an animated cOMedy
You do you bud, you do you.
i- guys they're telling a joke, your nice guy is showing
It's weird you weren't crying.
That Mamma Mia edit made me realize Joker shouldve been a Musical
EDIT: Ok, I hear what you are saying people. Apparently this didnt work out. But I really think Ive got it this time. Joker 3 should absolutely be a baseball movie.
i can picture joaquin phoenix on stage belting out like an i want song
@@mentallyunstable1926 i demand a joker i want song!
I mean, he already loves dancing
let the man sing!
Unironically: that would've been a cool idea.
we was ROBBED
In this episode, Jenny shows us how she lives in a society
@SomethingScanning somewhat
metaleggman18
What is this a reference to?
@@AddBowIfGirl I had originally thought it was a quote from Margaret Thatcher that has suddenly gained a surprising level of revitalization, but I'm starting to have my suspicions that there is some kind of groupthink origin that I'm not privy to.
@Corwin Rainier It's just a meme playing off statements that begin with that phrase which often amount to shallow critiques.... I mean I guess you can call memes groupthink but that's super weird, dude
But she doesnt tell us how she got her scars
This was re- recommended to me in the storm of internet outrage post- Joker 2. For a second I thought it was a sequel called 'Well, I Didn't Like Joker 2' because that would actually be the funniest thing to happen, both in and about the movie
alternate joker movie title: arthur's terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day
That sums it up
You forgot terrible. Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day
Unfortunately they made a movie out of the book you're referencing. So that would be confusing.
@@PanAndScanBuddy yes, and it's called "The Joker"
Except it wasn't a day. Every day of his life was bad. All that stuff that went really bad for him to turn him into the Joker happened over a week at least.
The real message of the Joker: a whole lot of people will get really passionately behind a person or people they like without having any care or understanding of what they do or stand for.
That's what I really got from it, Arthur didn't really have a true point besides a sort of twisted revenge, but everyone else thought he was in some way
that's a bit like Taxi Driver honestly, which I think The Joker was sort of inspired by along with some other Scorsese films
@@pillbugm8914 yeah and obviously so. People would've taken that a lot better though if the DC property weren't attached imo
Ironically that’s what of the fans are doing with this movie
So it’s about it’s own fans, how meta
Comparing the joker movie to mamma mia is the hot take i didn't know i needed but i'm glad i've watched 🤣
That trailer edit was honestly perfection
@@Edaphosaurus i knowww😂 and the links in the description just top it all off
george clooneys singing was legendary
the joker struck me as a movie that's supposed to have some kind of hard hitting message, but they forgot to put the message in so its just an hour and a half of weird uncomfortable stuff happening
it had a message, but it wasn't for you.
@@ibtarnine ok lol. have you considered that maybe the reason other people aren't picking up on the message you're getting is because you're actually just projecting.
@@bogwife7942 that isn't why. i don't criticize fiction geared towards women just because the message doesn't speak to me personally as a man, i just accept that it's not for me and i read something else. why can't you do the same?
😆Right!
@@ibtarnine So, your rationalization is that this movie is just beyond women’s comprehension? Lol
I never thought Meryl Streep would make a good Joker but now I have to see her try it.
I'd like to see Joaquin Phoenix singing The Winner Takes It All.
She would've made a good Harley Quinn, 30 years ago.
@@ErebosGR She could still do it probably lol
Loool I just imagined that and I have to say... it makes sense
Applecrow well yeah, duh, obviously. Meryl Streep can do anything.
When will we get out gritty, dark Jenny origin movie?
The story of a woman denied her petting zoo and have gone to murder very specific Disney executives
That was MLP: FiW, just substitute Jenny for Pinkie.
Watch her early youtube
"No one cared who I was until I got these porgs"
"Do you wanna know how I got these porgs?"
She was summoned into our mortal world instead of birthed.
I love how she matches her outfit to the movie she talks about, but never calls attention to it.
@callmecatalyst I did hear her say all that, but she never said anything like "Hey, look at my outfit!"
@Cooper ?? If you mean the kind of person who inadvertently feeds trolls by showing my appreciation for someone, then yeah, I suppose I am.
Casual Cosplay
I'm sure she's drawn attention to it sometimes, at least as a joke.
Well she did say "I look like bilbo baggins", even though she looks nothing like him. Guess she just thought " oh I'm wearing a red coat and this guy is also wearing a red coat"
Please. Please god let Jenny like Joker 2. The fans reaction to this really mild critique indicates infinite potential.
Jenny I’m playing Donna in a production of Mamma Mia at the moment and now I know I won’t be flailing my arms during winner takes it all just to please you
Give this woman an oscar
swooping is bad tho and a Tony!
Or! Ooorrr... now hear me out, flail even bigger and more dramatically.
theres something almost poetic about todd phillips using arthur as a mouthpiece for how he feels about no one finding him funny and not realizing that, as you said, arthur's problem isn't that he's offensive. he's just not funny.
@D2 E2 cause you're watching the vid lmao
D2 E2 are you okay
D2 E2 oof, calm down.
D2 E2 I shall clutch them, D2 E2. I shall clutch them tighter than ever before.
D2 E2 -you also like your own comments? Sad-
I just find it hilarious that Todd Phillips was out there complaining about how he can't make "edgy" humor anymore because people are too sensitive these days the same year JoJo Rabbit won an Oscar. You know, that critically acclaimed comedy about a child in the Hitler Youth who has an imaginary friend Hitler played by the films director.
Exactly. You can make movies about heavy topics, what these dingbats don't understand is that you still have to be sensible with how you're treating the villain and not side with him while also understanding the weight of the situation
Jojo Rabbit wasn't edgy at all. Making fun of Hitler and the Nazis is an incredibly safe thing to do.
@@daniellee9328 you would think, right? But it’s easy to accidentally slip into antisemetic sentiments, especially when you have internalised antisemetic issues you haven’t addressed; and some anti-nazi comedy seems to take the piss more out of the scale of the Holocaust, or it’s methods, and less about the fact that Jewish people (also: Romani people, the disabled, poc and gay people) specifically were the ones targeted. That’s just what I’ve spotted, anyway.
@@zircobyte go outside
@@tonytynebridge510 Went outside. My dog enjoyed the walk. Thanks for the feedback
Joker brought a "Im 14 this is deep" sorta vibe to the viewing party
So do most of Jenny's movie reviews. At least she's switched to reviewing closed-down theme parks now, which is more in her intellectual wheelhouse. 😂
@@jeffersonadams8711 girl shut up omfg
@@jeffersonadams8711🍼
Very well put!! Joker 2019 is as shallow as a puddle
@@jeffersonadams8711only difference being that one of those things is supposed to be a literal blockbuster feature film and the other one is just a youtube video w her opinion. weird take.
scene cut from the middle of the movie: Joker watching Hangover 4 for two hours
This might be the funniest thing I've read this week.
Thank you.
Per Dita
😂😆🤣
The true trigger for his madness
And takin notes
I dont remember where I heard this, but with the twist ending, someone once said "if the twist is more boring than the alternative, dont have a twist" ie, it was a made up story, the characters were dreaming, etc.
I think that was trope talks, she's awesome
The twist wasn't that it was all made up. It's just the relationship with the girl that was a dream.
Carbonite Hunter that was still boring tbh, it just made me think “oh, he’s crazy.” When we already knew that
Red from Overly Sarcastic Productions
Couch Potato I kinda ‘guessed’ it after she appeared to know his name, even though he never told her, it was my least favourite part of the film.
I’m gonna be honest, as a woman, I was completely willing to believe that a man would write a woman being delighted to watch him do stand-up comedy
That was a part of Arthur's delusion, remember?
@@nilsjohnson2636 The point I think she was making is that many men write women horribly across media, so when this woman was turned on by the weird stalker, and laughing at his terrible jokes, it didn't register as not normal and maybe part of a delusion because some men would write a woman like that without the delusion. A commentary on the greater media and not this movie.
@@nilsjohnson2636 I feel like you're proving the general spirit of this comment lol
Just admit that you’re too dumb to understand what the movie was about.
@@headflap7569 @headflap I never said that was what the movie was trying to say. Neither did OP. I explained the op's comment on why they didn't even second guess why the woman love interest would fall in love with her weird stalker since women are often written so badly in other movies. Plenty of movies reward predatory/weird men for having the woman they act predatory towards fall for them.
Be it women falling for kidnappers, stalkers, or other toxic/violent/obsessive behaviors. If anything, I would say the subversion of the trope is a good point hidden inside the rest of what Joker is trying to say, as many will see the woman falling for him and just handwave it to usual bad writing of women, or as a nice romance, he was able to find in a woman who gets him a somewhat, before the reveal says, "Why would you think this would ever work out? That isn't how people work."
So to rephrase my first comment: OP was critiquing the trope found in writing women in media, a trope that Joker actually subverts in saying, "Only someone mentally unstable would actually think this type of relationship would work, or that a woman would actually react in a 'rewarding' way to men who do this."
Hope that clears up any miscommunication.
Remembering how absolutely incandescently enraged a bunch of reddit dudes got over this video... good times. We have made absolutely no progress since this video was posted but it's still funny to look back on a bunch of comments openly being like "You're a WOMAN, of COURSE you wouldn't understand the struggles of a MAN" like that isn't an extremely concerning thing to say in public
Isn't that the same phrase that literally thousands of women say every day though? "You're a man, of course you wouldn't understand the struggles of a women". Also, this movie had nothing to do with gender and was based solely on the depiction of a mentally ill person breaking bad due to the fictional culture around him. It was a character study and that's it. Every single person on the internet made it out to be way bigger of a deal than it actually was.
@@Go_away_loser Thats..the point they're making. The movie has nothing to do with gender, yet a lot of weird dudes are projecting it onto the film.
@@ashleysmith746 Who are these weird dudes? All I've seen are mostly respectful disagreements with a few weirdos like everywhere else on the internet.
@@ashleysmith746 OP said that saying in public that women do not understand the struggle of men is 'extremely concerning'. That certainly suggests that OP believes that such an opinion is not acceptable.
I do think that there is a gendered part of the story, in that I think more men deal with issues of feeling invisible and overlooked by society than do women. Women to a greater degree deal with unwanted attention, whilst men to a greater degree deal with lack of attention. That is not to say that 'a woman can't understand the struggle of men' - I think that is blatantly sexist to say - but it's hardly surprising that more men identify with that struggle.
@@theWebWizrd There are literally so many accounts of how women are treated as being invisible compared to men. The constant need for the struggle to be symmetrical smells like negligent narcissism which is why men admitting they think that way is concerning. Maybe men just don't struggle as much as women. Maybe you should stop avoiding that reality as unflattering as it may seem.
Remember writers: The Joker makes sense. Every good Joker has always just made sense.
Animated Joker is basically just a narcissistic crook, he just wants money, power and attention and likes getting it in funny ways but doesn't mind being more subtle and mundane if he needs to. He reacts violently when someone steals the spotlight or denies him in any way and he's a sore loser. Every Joker episode lines up with these character elements.
Arkham Joker cares more about Batman himself, to the point of vague but undefined homoeroticism and most of his actions in Asylum are based around trying to prove to Batman that they're both essentially the same thing, and while he enjoys the theatrical elements is a lot more brutal and practical in his actual methods.
Dark Knight Joker is all about proving that he's "not crazy" by making other people act in ways that are just as twisted and evil as he is, he's a reckless misanthrope with something to prove and only uses theatrics as part of that specific goal or to build his own personal myth (as a foil to Batman's methods), and doesn't care about money or power, just the statement.
I could go on but I won't. All the best Jokers that people remember and care about in media are Jokers that have a consistent reason to act the way they do. In fact, most of them are sociopaths but otherwise totally mentally healthy and in control of their actions and just play up the "I'm a crazy clown I can't be predicted wheehoo!" thing to their benefit or because they think it's funny.
Also, the best Jokers don't really need a background that is concrete to say why they are the way they are(unlike this crappy movie, but it spends so much time focusing on the backstory that we never see him be Joker).
Really well written. Underrated comment
How DARE you not include Lego Batman's joker in this listing?!😦😮😤😤🙃
Great comment tho. Incomplete, but still good.
@@phousefilms Well obviously its gonna spend its time on Jokers backstory. Thats what the movie is, Jokers backstory. 🤦♂️
@@phousefilms but there are also very concrete theories (idk if its been disproven or not), that the entire movie was told unreliably by the joker, like all the other times he told an unreliable backstory in the killing joke or the dark knight. i think it's unsettling that as we come to know more and more about arthur, it is revealed to us that even his actual origin and birth is vague, that he was able to convince himself that his mom was innocent, and convince himself about a lot of different things, and he might have been able to convince the psychologist at the end, and by proxy the audience, that he made the entire thing up and that we could never get it. i think by the time arthur was announced as joker, we start to lose touch with him and to me, this climaxes in how we'll never know what he said to the camera. but this is just my experience watching the film and its highly subjective tho :P
also, a very prominent joker that ive seen talked a lot about is the white night (?) joker who became sane and ran for mayor. backstory wise, i think his is like a single tile of concrete, not enough to empathize and justify him but we can understand his psychotic actions and criminal activities. despite the twist at the end, i still think this iteration of the joker is likeable because we know where he was coming from :)
The setting WAS pretty cool and well-realised, but I do think that setting it in 1981 had less to do with making the parallels to Taxi Driver/King of Comedy more overt, or making a commentary on Reagan-era cuts to mental health services than Todd Phillips simply couldn't think of another way to write around the fact that Arthur was constantly smoking indoors
🤣🤣 That did not go anywhere I could have expected, you made me laugh so hard!!! 🤣🤣💀💀
I remember my parents being asked if they wanted to be seated in the smoking or non-smoking section of the restaurant, and this comment just grabbed my funny bone and tickled it so aggressively, I'm like just dead from laughing.
Thank you for sharing!!
i think they also needed a reason for clowns to be even remotely relevant LMAO
It was indeed odd and a bad decision. Think of what could have been done if Joker was set in the present; so many new things that cause loneliness and alienation exist now as opposed to then. But it scarcely would have mattered if the writing remained shit.
You can’t be a cool smoker in 2024 it’s a tragedy truly /s
@@eos_aurora Modern Joker vaping indoors just doesn't make for as dramatic of a scene
the amount of comments stating you “just didn’t get it, it’s too deep” with no sense of self awareness or satire is equally hilarious and staggering
It's not that deep, it's very simple and to the point despite a couple of red herrings.
But it makes a lot of people here uncomfortable so they have to engage in massive mental gymnastics to shoot it down.
Yeah people who enjoy a thing you dont have no self awareness lmao
The movie is being carried by his acting, and the lore of the joker. Not too difficult.
@@_Ikelos maybe it's just a bad movie bro. it's got a shit script completely carried by the acting. it's got cringe politics shoehorned in like the purge. it drags hard and it lingers on the same shit til the end scene. it tries way too hard to "subvert expectations" and just ends up subverting being good.
imagine how good it could've been if it was a straight up dark comedy. cut out the unnecessary shit like the mum and the protests. make it a twisted version of a superhero origin. instead it's just the first 20 minutes repeated over and over for 2 hours until the talk show scene
I'd say to "get" why so many people liked this movie, you have to have a bit of a background that Jenny and the other detractors mostly don't have. In my case, it helps that I was a big comics fan in the 1990s when the fandom for mainstream comic books was at its apogee. That was an ideal time to learn some of the lore underlying the movie's main themes, such as:
1. Why all the indecisiveness about whether any of this story happened or not? Because the Joker's origin has *always* been (in his own words) "multiple-choice" and this movie certainly wasn't going to change that. If this movie had tried to make the Joker's origin absolutely unambiguous, it would have been going against nearly eight decades of the comic books' lore.
2. Why the movie's indecisiveness about politics? Because like the movie itself, the comic books' various iterations of the Joker have so often been a kind of Rorschach test onto which people project their own beliefs and ideologies. The movie's main point is self-demonstrating: that in analyzing some controversial incident or phenomenon, *especially* in a highly politicized setting (such as Gotham in an election year), people will tend to see what they want to see.
3. Why the story's focus on the society rather than on the character? Because another longstanding part of the comics' lore has been to answer the question "Killing the Joker sure seems like it would solve a lot of problems, so why doesn't Batman just do that?" with "No, the Joker is only a symptom of Gotham's depravity, not a root cause, so killing him wouldn't really solve anything." Hence why Arthur Fleck is such a nonentity throughout the movie; to show that if anyone were to kill him, Gotham's cruel and heartless society would simply twist some other lowly nonentity into a new Joker or maybe even somebody worse.
On the note of Arthur going “What do you get when you take a mentally ill person…” and how “mentally ill” was too tame as far as language goes for the supposed time period: One thing this movie was sorely lacking is colorful dialogue. So many people in the period between 1920 and 1980 spoke with such verbose vocabulary.
Part of the appeal with Heath Ledger’s version of the Joker is how impactful each and every line of his dialogue is. If it wasn’t some deep insight that put a piece into the puzzle of his personality, it was language that took a concept and made it fucked up in a slightly comedic angle. “Why don’t we cut you up into little pieces and feed you to your pooches? Then we’ll see how loyal a hungry dog really is.” Like goddamn. Not to mention the amount of references to gambling/deck of cards are in his dialogue. He absorbed the wild card nature of the Joker.
In this movie, you could replace “mentally ill person” with “someone who isn’t wrapped too tight” or “a person who’s on the brink of insanity” or some other equivalent and, with the right performance, it would’ve made the scene so much more impactful and character-defining. Same goes for much of the other dialogue in this movie.
YES. Finally someone who finally gets it. "A society who treats him like trash?" Oh my god.. It's so fucking cringe. How does shit like this pass through the producers??
@@_Mojius_ Something about script-writing in media has just been so weirdly lazy and by-the-books in recent years. Even great blockbusters like Barbie and Everything Everywhere kind of have their writing a bit easy because everything is so meta- and multiverse-pilled nowadays, so writing in that way is kinda really easy right now.
I feel like it shouldn’t be this difficult to get writing and performances that don’t feel reminiscent of modern problems/talking points 😭
This is something the mauler fans who just gatekeep ip’s will never understand
@@_Mojius_ At what point in the movie should they have gave arthur some witty shakespearean dialogue? A lot of the premise of the film kinda depends on the fact that he is ineloquent and off putting. If you don't want to see that depicted ever then that's fine but don't frame it as a failure on the part of the film
@@utryping you're forgetting that dialogue tends to be written as the most fitting thing for a character to say in any moment, even the most realistic dialogue has to give way to the flow of the scene and the movie's pacing. there's nothing shakespearean about cracking a dark joke/acting like a fully realised character
even with a character like arthur who stumbles, he naturally thinks in a way that produces jokes and "witty" lines (considering he has a whole book, it's a conscious effort too), so when he comes into his own, it would be an impactful moment for that wit to roll off his tongue naturally.
it's his moment in the sun and he's certain of what he's going to do by that point, his confidence has reached a head for the first time in his life, people idolise him, he's going to "show the world what happens". it's too perfect an opportunity NOT to write something that fully enhances the moment. even just saying "a fuc'ed up loser" would work because he's lost his patience and inhibition, and it reflects how he sees himself and how he thinks the world sees him.
(nothing shakespearean in a crass sentence like that)
as for the rest of the film, stumbling is fine but i think that moment in particular could've benefitted from some venom, or he reaches the flow he's always been after. either way works as the endpoint of his growth (not to say there wasn't any. it'd enhance it)
*almost 19 minutes into the video*
"... I look like Bilbo Baggins."
THAT'S who I was thinking of!!
Young Scott I was actually thinking that would make a sweet Mr.Toad Disneybound
@@1LilSpark my autocomplete slightly dyslexic brain kicked in and read that as "Mr. Sweeney Todd".
I laughed out loud at ‘I’m in a hospital for the criminally insane because I’m insane, then I became a criminal’
In defense of the world being comically mean, it is Gotham City.
I really didn’t find it comically mean tbh. 1970s NYC was a rough place.
Plenty of comics have gotham as unrealistically shitty but still believable. Hell Hub City exists in thr DC universe to explicilty one up Gotham in shittiness and still isnt as hamhanded as Jokers Gotham. When you can't be more subtle than a literal comic book you're just a shitty world builder.
@@FourLetterLWord ... Except 1970's- 80's New York was very similar to this. It was a bad time. I loved how they brought that rough time back to life and it's so naive to think this was over the top.
@@ArcticENG what was over the top was the terrible script, not the set design, you simpleton
@@FourLetterLWord How so?
@@Sil3ntKn1ght there is a difference between pointlessly villainous and believably malicious. All the people who antagonized Fleck had either no internal consistency or just no sensible motive at all, their entire motivation as characters was to be there to antagonize Fleck as plot devices. It's a textbook "kick the puppy" trope where it benefits them in no way as characters to do what they do, it just helps a bad story teller communicate in the bluntest and least sophisticated way that theyre "bad" people; emphasis on the bad and not the "people."
It's also just kind of funny that Fleck's big thing is whining about being invisible when literally everyone in the movie exists to directly interact with him personally. You can be invisible, or people can incoherently go out of their way to victimize you specifically, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
The reason Todd Phillips can't make any more Hangover movies is because he made the same movie 3 times and burned out his audience.
The fact that you described Joker as the same half an our repeated ad nauseum is consistent with Todd Phillips' style in that regard.
That's a weird take. Why would you want more than one or two Hangover movie in the first place? Of course it's repetitive, the premise doesn't leave much space for something else. They knew that from the start and made hangover 2 and 3 to milk the audience, as you should expect, but internally the first one was pretty entertaining without repetitions.
There never should have been a second hangover, and the third one should have the second. If there was a second one at all, that is. It really should have just been a single movie.
did he? hangover 3 was way different. And I think much like the Joker, he tried to do something different under the guise of an existing franchise so he could get funding. I really dont get the feeling he wanted to make hangover 3, atleast not in the same tone as hangover one
Surprisingly, the first movie holds up pretty well. I mean its not perfect. Comedy ages the fastest out of any art, and its the most likely to age poorly. Thats especially true for 2000s comedies that are already trying to be raunchy. But there is a good number of decent jokes in there. Then they just made the same movie again but worse, then they did it again. People who really like the hangover, are not exactly looking for a fine dinning movie experience, and even then they where annoyed with the same movie but made two more times.
@@DumbIdeaPresentedStupidlyI like the hangovers and also like artsy movies 🤷♂️ I like fine dining and I also like fast food.
Literally the moment Sofie said it was okay he was stalking her all day I was like, this is fake and every woman here knows it.
unfortunately, some male writers do unironically write similar scenarios so irl, defo fake, in a movie written by a man, who knows?
Oh really? You knew the movie was fake from that point? Great detective skills Jessie.
The lighting would change slightly when Sofie said smth unreasonable. He's insane and the movie shows that via lighting and wording.
What does that have to do with being a woman
I wasn't sure if it was that or if the writer was such a virgin he thought it would actually work. That one was hard to fault one way or the other lol
'its just that when a comedian says 'nobody likes my jokes because they're offended' my brain automatically filters that as 'nobody likes my jokes,' which is a good warning to receive from a comedian'
the most efficient analysis of butthurt comedian culture i've ever seen
It reminds me of a saying “No one can be offended so much that they laugh”
It’s true though, what with cancel culture and all that shit, you make an offensive joke these days and the mob will be after you
@@funkyfranx I think the key word here is "no-one". If no one likes your jokes except you, you might be the problem - not twitter :P
@@funkyfranx There will always be someone laughing, the question is who is it you want to make laugh. I don't think offensive jokes are impossible to make, as long as they have some nuance to it. Sure there will always be people that overreact to the smallest things but I don't feel like they have so much power if it is really unjustified, you have seen how ineffective cancel culture is in reality. But the whole shock humor thing, when you just say something extremely offensive and that's the joke, isn't working anymore.
@@Chillerll problem is there are people saying you shouldnt be allowed to tell the jokes even if people laugh
"I thought my life was a tragedy but now I realize it's a comedy"-Dr.Doofenshmirtz
Still a better origin story than twi- i mean joker
Man, I would watch the shit out of a gritty Dr Doofenshmirtz movie
@@frogwhisperer2067 that was the phineas and ferb movie
I haven't seen the movie - but as Joker said that line, I was *sure* it would end with, "but now I realize it's a JOKE." Am disappointed.
jenny probably feels super vindicated now that the sequel is getting ripped apart by critics lol
Straight up 😂
I wouldn’t blame Jenny if she decided to stay far away from Joker 2 but I would absolutely love for her to do a victory lap review of it
I had one huge gripe as a schizophrenic...WE ARE NOT DANGEROUS! Only 1% of the global population is on the psychotic spectrum. And of that less then 5% ever harm another person seriously (lke no more then average people who may get into an arguement). VS the 25% of us that admit having harmed ourselves in a serious/life threatening capacity. And remember we tend to be paranoid so that 25% is probably higher just some wont say due to fear of hospitalization. So all this movie is is a visual confirmation of old stigmas. The very stigma that results in 44% of fatal Canadian cop shootings being mentally ill people in need of help....
Tbh, psychotic spectrum doesn't really involves psych itself,u know? I'm asking it cause it seems really very few
@@atanaZion the psychotic spectrum is both mental illness and Neurodivergent. Sometimes it is caused by trauma or drugs/booze. But others have a major genetic risk at play too.(ie my ma was psychotic AND I have childhood trauma. So made my risk higher). But it doesn't just inpair emotions, it hits cognitive stuff too. Like memory issues, social hurdles, or even speech issues.
As a multimillionaire i was confused when Bruce Wayne started wearing a bat costume to fight crime...like, we very rarely do that shit...also, stop talking.
as a schizophrenic, strongly disagree. we are more likely to be abused than others and less likely to commit violent crime, but this felt super accurate and you should probably be glad they're not straight up calling mpd schizophrenia at least :3 people on psychotic breaks are less dangerous than, say, inner city american blacks, but. these things happen, and it's very on character and well portrayed. he is not inherently dangerous, rather, abused past his breaking point by everyone around him.
also don't recall them throwing diagnoses out in the movie.
You are dangerous, just to yourself
Life of Pi was a great examination of unreliable narrators and storytelling to prove deeper points. Unreliable narrators are plot devices, not crutches. Everything put into a story is put there intentionally, so you can’t cop out with “oh it was fake” because all fiction is fake that doesn’t make it pointless.
literally loved Life of Pi.
The book or the movie?
@@EspeonMistress00 book
I didn't like Life of Pi. I thought it was pretentious, and trying too hard to be a work of great literature. As a result, it didn't have any meaning outside of the shallow subtext Martel decided it should have. Shakespeare's plays are so multi-faceted and debated precisely because he doesn't try to shove a single interpretation down our throats. Good for a high school English class. Terrible everywhere else. When I met Yann Martel at a lecture series, all he talked about was some Christian pseudo-epistemological nonsense, and that is exactly what this book is: a man deciding the only way he can continue following a religion he as a rational man knows is superstition is if nothing is really true and nobody really knows anything. Well, let me tell you something, Martel. You're not the first person in the world to come up with solipsism. It's about the most played out theory in all of metaphysics. It's impossible to disprove, and it doesn't lead to any further truth whatsoever. Only someone who knows nothing about philosophy thinks it's deep. This isn't even getting into all the cultural appropriation of a Canadian writing about an Indian Hindu/Muslim. I am embarrassed to call Yann Martel my countryman.
ok
"you made your movie for some reason you're just unwilling to commit to what it is" is a perfect summation for so many critiques of so many movies thank you for putting it into words
what if the reason is money?
Projecting "reason" on movie makers is a lot like projecting human emotions on your dog. No, he's not ashamed. He just knows master is mad. A dog is incapable of shame.
@@harrymills2770 ok besides the awful metaphor that dehumanises filmmakers, filmmakers do need to have reason balancing good writing and making it profitable at the same time, yeah obviously companies want to make money, but actual makers of the film want to make it onto the classics list, or be the film thats the hilight of that year, not everything is a cash grab.
How I feel about Luca
@@David-sq2en that is a difficult one.
Sharknado et al?
One thing that I think is just hurtful is when they show joker writing down things people thought were funny as something "weird" or "creepy". As someone with both autism and ADHD, I'm constantly making mental notes of what is seen as funny so I don't look super socially awkward, but making a murderer do something neurodivergent people do just feels...off (not to say all schizophrenic people/ppl with schizoaffective disorders are murderers and *don't* struggle in social situations, the movie just kinda villainizes people with mental disabilities).
And I will never stop saying Joker in the Lego batman movies is unironically a rly good joker portrayal of a guy who just wants attention and has been fighting batman so long he doesn't know what to do when that ends lmao
1. I love your points they're so accurate.
2. LEGO BATMAN JOKER LETS GOOOO!
as someone who is very close friends with an pearson who suffers from various psychological disorders (schizofrenic, psychotic episodes, DID) i feel Joker is a very harmful movie, as it portrays Arthur's actions as somewhat justified and portrays therapy as useless or insuficient, its clear the movie has no interest in portraying mentally ill people as people, only as victims of their circumstances with no autonomy of their own, Arthur was "destined" to shoot Murray from the very beginning of the movie
@@Memento_mori2222 It’s weird because as destined as it was for Murray to be shot by Arthur, it also was the most senseless of the Joker’s killings in a movie that went out of its way to make it seem like Arthur/Joker HAD to have understandably justified reasons for the ones he killed. If Arthur didn’t have to be a guy Batman has to fight later on maybe, Franklin is left alive to ponder why a man shot himself on air to make some kind of point about society abandoning him leaving him no other choice beyond taking his own life.
there is no such thing as over-praising Lego Joker or praising him for too long. if i had any writing skills i'd write a biography of Lego Joker with transcripts of days long interviews with Zach Galifianakis while we're under the influence and in full joker impressions.
@@aztn19 it's also kind of funny that the writers, for how much they wanted to slap DC lore and Batman setup over this movie that had very little to do with tights-wearing capes, couldn't just resolve to position Arthur as the pre-cursor/eventual inspiration to the Joker that Batman faces. Meaning he could be allowed to die in the story and be seen as a martyr to a wave of criminals that the "next" Joker emerges from. it's not too big a reach given the number of fans that already theorized or even outright believed in this idea before/after the movie came out.
I feel like the entire movie is the embodiment of the phrase: "we live in a society."
which is why i despise it
It tries to be deep but ends up saying nothing at all because it was written by a coward.
It should have latched onto the class disparity theme, but instead downplayed the radical discourse by making Joker state that he's not political. This is something very common in these kind of movies, because they know class analysis is very polarizing among people confortable with the status quo, which most of their audience.
Ironically, the writer complains about people being "too PC" but he's guilty of *actual* political correctness.
@@ataricidal The film was not that "We live in a society". The film was about the society not paying attention to the lower class of society, mental issues, and walking over the people that die because they dont matter to them. And how the media villifies them, without trying to understand why, when mostof the time it is the media and rich's fault for villifying them, and in exchange lionizing them. Because just like what Thomas Wayne did, villified those that went on strike. Only to than lionize the idol of the clown. Leading to chaos and outrage.
And Joker only related to that, because he himself was mocked by those above him. Especially his idol.
@@riley8385 Well, your endorsement of the pc culture kinda pushes that. Because lets face it. Theres nothing fond about modern day feminism. I bet if joker was whaman. You would of liked it cause girl power.
It wasnt meant to be political as a character, it was a political film. Actually left leaning. And it was something that influenced Arthur to join in the end. Because he had a purpose. He was loved for who he was. He had the attention he was deprived of. Something that could drive any human mad.
John Clark the movie is overrated. Wasn’t even a Joker film, it was just about some depressed unstable guy who eventually goes apeshit because no one likes him but they made him the joker so it makes money. I completely agree that it’s the embodiment of “we live in a society” 😂. It’s a depressed teen’s dream
Before i saw Joker i thought life was a cringe compilation, but now i realize it's a try not to laugh challenge.
this is so good
@@lilwerner1518 why were you looking at their channel banner???
@@Loogoni To shame them. Imagine watching anime
Imagine watching joker
« Humanity is a failure » your parents when they had you
Murray died for putting Arthur in his cringe compilation
Not really, he was going to kill himself in front of Murray because of that, but then he got so into his nerves and wouldn't stop confronting him, and Arthur(Joker by that point) just said enough and offed him.
We live in a society, Murreh
Murray died for not calling security the moment Arthur said he killed people.
@@guyr3618 and screw up his ratings?
Guy R yah that was kinda dumb.....they let Arthur go on ranting for like 10 minutes, and didn’t cut the feed once he started shooting 😂
Well, I didn't like Joker 2
I want Joker 2 to take place right after the first and just have Arthur dance on the car as people awkwardly funnel out for two hours
This is the only valid comment in this entire comment section
But it would be _such good acting_
I think a sequel would ruin the first movie (it would seriously risk 'jumping the shark', so to speak - imho). I feel a movie like Joker should stand alone as a single vessel for its story, message and narrative.
@@Moodymongul yeah I'm 99% sure any sequel would suck in comparison
@@Moodymongul My ideal "Joker 2" would be the first Joker, except everything is different until we cut back to the end scene where the therapist asks "What's so funny?" Then everything after that is the same. But otherwise, it's a completely different movie (might not even have clown symbolism). That way it can be the "multiple choice" aspect that the Killing Joke Joker endorsed in his backstories.
I think a telltale sign of a lazy cop-out is when they try to have it both ways. If you accept praise for your movie being deep, thoughtful and realistic, you can't dismiss criticism saying it was just nonsense spoken by a lunatic. If it was nonsense, then the people who praised you were *also* reading too much into it.
T h i s! ^^^^^
Exactly. But these 2 guys don't want to have a conversation with each other. Curious
@@chocolatecharley99 What two guys?
but.. but.. but it's not that simple!
huh?
"You think Joker's a pretentious, scowling ball of nothing?"
JENNY: "Yes, and I'm tired of pretending it's not."
MaMiMuMa Pretty ableist but yes most dudebros are mentally ill lol
MaMiMuMa I didn’t realize I was an angsty weirdo because I struggle with ADHD, anxiety, and depression, but I guess I should tell that to my boyfriend, friends, family, and my normal, fulfilling social life
@@bitchass7198 Y'all are so dramatic 🙄 It was just a piss poor movie
@@chocolatecharley99 imho it was pretty awesome!!
@@chocolatecharley99 hmmmm, No.
“baby’s first batman critique” i’m wheezing 😭
Was not expecting Mamma Mia to appear in a Joker review
Was also not expecting it to make as much sense as it does
what sense was that : horror , disgust & revulsion at Streep ? YUCK !
katielou I know! I was not ready for the overlap.
I thought my life was a tragedy, but now I realize it's an infomercial for a set of steak knives.
*effortlessly slices through an empty soda can*
Meryl Streep is the Joker we NEEDED!
Is there any role she can't play?
@@Rognik Herself, Daniel Day Lewis already has that role locked down for the biopic.
OTOH, she is cast as Daniel Day Lewis.
But the Joker we got is the Joker we deserved.
No joke, Streep as Flashpoint Joker could be a fantastic film.
God that would be perfect
The fact that there's a 12 hour response to this video where a few faceless man-children just get upset the whole time is actually insane to me. Like, imagine spending that much time combing over every second of someone else's opinion on a movie. So bizarre.
Surprise, people like to analyze arguments on the Internet. By posting your opinion publicly, you give other people permission to discuss your words. Do you have an example of anything they said that you disagree with? Also, they cover Angry Joe's Joker review in that stream as well as read superchats and discuss other topics, so to present it as a "12 hour response to this video" is misleading although understandable you would conclude that. Basically, she gets a lot wrong factually in this video, so to claim it's "just an opinion" is fairly disingenuous on your part. But I'd still be willing to listen if you have any actual substantive discussion to add that thousands of other people before you haven't already complained about. Cheers!
@@towerofgodfan4107 yet you still won’t give me an example of anything they said that you disagree with. So bizarre. Please try to know what you’re talking about so we can have an actual discussion of substance? Like seriously, you’re giving me nothing. At least pretend to have reasons for thinking the way you do?
@@Clipzilla42dude get over yourself, no one is gonna watch a 12 hour video complaing that they didn't like this video if they're a fan of Jenny to begin with, acting like you have the moral high ground because someone won't subject themselves of 12 hours of content they don't like is stupid
@@Clipzilla42"Why won't you watch a 12 hour video from a guy you don't like and then give me a response"?
@@mirillis6083 So you find everyone who criticizes a video they didn’t watch one single second of to be in the right, and if someone asks questions about what they said that’s so egregious, that’s bad? Makes perfect sense! I’m not “forcing” you to watch anything. If you’re gonna talk about something I expect you to at least have some knowledge pertaining to the discussion. But no one can give an actual example, why would they when you can just say “bad cuz 12 hours” even though they also reviewed another review in the same stream. Lmao why do you think I have the moral high ground or implied that in any way? Because I choose the words I use with purpose? Because I’m asking for substantive dialogue? The bar is truly on the floor, so thank you for that…
I couldn't figure out what her outfit reminded me of and then she lifted her hands to show the big cuffs and I said ah ha! ...Gaston and Belle's bastard mistake child.
I got heavy mulan vibes
I thought a Belle-Mulan mash up!
Its frozen 2 stuff
Bastard Mistake Child. I feel called out.
First time in a long time a comment got me to laugh out loud in public. Bravo!
it’s crazy that she gave a reasonable and pretty well argued perspective on a movie, but one that she totally presented as subjective and her opinion, yet people still freaked out and downvoted her obsessively
Hahaha. I think it only registers a 👎 once per person, but I know what you meant. 😁
Because she's not actually making any points, it's her job to just dislike any popular movie.
@@NoName-th2hy you can find many examples of her enjoying things on this channel youre just being annoying lol
@@NoName-th2hy is this the only video of hers you've watched?
@@NoName-th2hy yea something tells me you didn't watch the video
I had the same reaction when she first said "They don't care about people like you..."
I was like, hold up, shes been portrayed as someone who doesn't actually listen or care about his mental health... and then she finished with "...or people like me." Ahhh she only said that because she's thinking about herself while he's telling her about his mental health.
So I think it fits.
Precisely. She's being selfish. Equating her, comparitively minor life problems to his super serious life threatening problems.
Yes.
Yeah and It felt like she was saying it too because it was "there's no point talking to me about it, the city doesn't care about either of us"
It totally fits with his entire experience with the process of working with the social worker, and her final comment is the send-off fuck you to Arthur: the whole time he’s been going through the process he’s been thinking and telling her how he feels fucked up and this isn’t helping him-and then at the very end she basically validates all he’s been thinking of his experience. “Yeah, you’re cut off and on the street with your problems, and I never gave a shit about you anyway.”
How could it have happened any other way?
This is why she does this "out of character". Bc its who she really is. Most characters are like this in the movie. Pretending to like Author until they break bc they think he'll get better if they just sit and put on a mask.
This is so validating to go back to and watch. I wasn't good at articulating my feelings on the film but you did it brilliantly while also adding plentiful new points I never thought of that I can say "HEY! That WAS werid!" Thank you
jenny is very intelligent and articulate. and delightful...an original!
Hard Cut:
“I look like Bilbo Baggins.”
Rei IV why is this kind of comment a thing
Jordan Adams I accidentally clicked on your profile and I am so amused by the playlist entitled “Best Song.” I know that isn’t even close to the point. I just found it funny.
Can you dispute that Tiga - Bugatti (Jauz Remix) [Feat. Pusha T] is not an absolute jam?
scout I think if I needed to make a playlist of exactly one song, that is the only correct choice.
Turns out "Bilbo Baggins cosplay" is actually a really flattering look for Jenny.
*makes a joke, laughs*
"The Joker would like that."
"You promise me super rats, bring me the super rats!"
Even as someone who liked Joker very much, I must agree with this piece of critique. What the hell, Todd Phillips?
Actually, I think I've seen a big rat at the background somewhere (it might be the scene where Arthur is kicking a dumpster, not sure). So there at least one super-rat!
@@yanakotova7366 Yes in the end when SPOILER Bruces parents are shot you can see two huge rats running in the back
I love that in this ostensibly epic and subversive movie about a media icon--
that there would be a random scene of him just kicking a dumpster.
All this drama, these story elements, the real world culture wars--
a clown kicking a dumpster.
Come to think of it, that's the real statement here-- and it's funny as hell!
It's buildup for Bruce Wayne becoming Ratman™️
Super Rats were an issue in New York during that time period. It’s just to show how bad the city’s gotten. Like everything’s going to shit and now there’re super rats. It could also symbolize the “rats” like The Wayne’s.
Aged like wine 🍷
Right? 😂
"It half says many things" - the exact description of every DC movie.
-_____-
@@danield.8233 hey, look at that. You half repied to my comment. Very fitting.
@@GGMCUKAGAIN you are not w
@@Flamme-Sanabi You are not w?
@@meriem.j.3633 I mean my repl
I actually cheered during the Talk Show scene in the theatre because he says "society" and I had just spent the previous two hours waiting for the memes.
Barnacl3Boi he says society right before he does a big bad
@@Barnacl3_Boi I think you meant script said "system", but Joaquin says "society", yes
That's the best reason.
And also when the mob says "Rise up! Rise up!"
Still wondering exactly where the joke is here, Whats so funny about the word society? Lol
The joker overlaid on mama Mia was actually hilarious
now i want the cast, crew & writers of joker to make a mama mia sequel and the cast crew & writers of mama mia to make a joker sequel. and it be released on the same day.
Absolutely
I laughed so much at that part! 😂😂😂
Bazinga funny right
@@sethrogaineMald
VINDICATED
I fucking loved the joker but she is 100% correct in her points.
The way she breaks it down and her talking points. They all make sense and are true.
Still liked the movie though but I'm not too stupid to look passed my own opinion to agree.
Wish more people were like this.
@@themoreyouknowfools4974 yeah!! deddwolf you're awesome
I liked it too, it was mostly Joaquin's acting that pulled me in. Jenny is right about it all though. I thought it was this semi-deep movie, but the more I thought about it and now from hearing someone who knows their shit discuss it-- I see it for what it is. I'm with you, liked the movie but 100% agree with Jenny.
YES
I liked his acting.. but didnt think this movie deserved anything like the praise it got. But im glad you enjoyed it
I actually liked the movie but I love how pissed off fans got from this single video. Lol, guess people don't like hearing opposing ideas, almost like *that* *was* *a* *theme* *in* *the* *movie*
🤡
Let us all remember that some dude made an 11 hour response video to Jenny's video.
I think people are more pissed than usual at those dont like this movie or think its boring because often they cant emphatize as well with arthur, and what carries this movie is that we can emphathize with him, and the less similar his life is to yours the less likely it is you'll enjoy it. Much of what drives arthur to become the joker is a lack of empathy from people around him, and so some fans see those who cant empathize slightly more as the same kind of people who bring about arthurs descent.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that raving moron Mauler and his fellow losers made an *almost twelve hour video* griping about how much they hated Jenny for not liking this movie. Seriously, dudes? Somehow, I don't think DC Comics or Warner Brothers are losing any sleep over this one slightly influential young gal on TH-cam kinda not liking their movie that made, like, A BILLION DOLLARS at the box office!
@@Commy01 really any link ?
Hopefully one day Hollywood will make a dark gritty origin story movie for Jass from Black Moon Rising.
Jass? more like HUGH JASS
@@Rex_Crackerz And he'll be played by HUGH JASSMAN.
It'll sell well with t-shirts at Hot Topic.
i (as a woman) was initially super put-off by this movie and it’s reception without having seen it. in fact it took a couple years for me to sit down and watch it but then i … genuinely really really loved it haha. that being said jenny’s critique here is entirely valid, and it just goes to show that different views take different things away from the same movie. that also being said, people are insane for attacking her based on something she very clearly and explicitly said was simply HER OPINION lmfao
What do you mean by "attacking"?
Alot of people in here are labeling real straightforward criticism as attacks and it's really hampering the discussion around this movie.
@@tevenpowell8023my darling, if i meant she was receiving valid criticism i would have said that. but what i *said* was people in the comments were attacking her in often quite misogynistic ways. people are allowed to disagree with her, but that’s obviously not what i was talking about.
why did you like it?
@@scarredk0 idk had good cinematography, unique and interesting plot, colorful costumes and scenery, phenomenal acting. of course this is all IMO if someone didn’t like it (like jenny) i’m not gonna fight them
@@trueMAXIMUS Wow, it took one response to get to mysoggyknees.
Ironic, given you're patently a misandrist who decided to hate the film because it was overtly "male".
Someone: "How much lighting do you want?"
Jenny: "Yes"
LMAO
This was a little overlit, haha
Jenny: Show the light of God to my Porg
😂😂😂
"Unless i look like twice as white as snow white its not enough"
I really like the Joker when every action he does is in pursuit of trying to prove a point that is wrong. For example, in The Dark Knight he tries to prove that everyone is just like him by getting the people on the boat to blow up each other, but they don’t and he tries to just blow them all up. In the Killing Joke, he tries to prove that all it takes is one bad day for anyone to end up like him, yet the subject he tests this on (James Gordon) proves him wrong.
I think the best backstory for the Joker, if you have to do one, is that regardless of who he may have been before, he was at least a very disturbed, nihilist person that craved some kind of attention. His transformation into the Joker is only a push into a more extreme, theatrical version of who he already was. I imagine being similar to the scene from Fight Club in which Tyler Durden shames the Narrator for trying not to die on the highway and convinces him to let go of the wheel. Whether something happened to make him do it, or he just decided to do so on his own, the Joker has permanently let go of the wheel. He believes that his decision to let go is something everyone should do and that we’re all just like him.
However, most other people won’t because they aren’t lunatics like he is. I always appreciate stories that prove the Joker wrong and take him down from his “ideological high-horse”. He thinks his actions make him ‘ahead of the curve’. He isn’t special; he’s just crazy.
this was such a well-articulated comment, thank you
This comment made me retroactively like that plot point in the dark knight
Well said! I personally love paragon heroes and everyone loves to hate a pure evil villain, but with the rise of sympathetic villains, I think many screenwriters struggle with the difficulties of wanting to have villains who the audience can empathise with. The idea is of course that they think being sympathetic will make the villains seem more complex and nuanced. So they give the villains sympathetic backstories and nuanced critiques of society and then forget to actually make them in the wrong on an ideological level. It’s not very nuanced to have the villain say ‘[this] is a valid critique of society’ and the protagonist say ‘but you’re violent in your means so I will violently stop you’. Well done for stopping the bad guy, but the audience takeaways can be all over the place, wondering what the movie is actually saying. Villains need to be motivated and believe their own motivations are worthwhile (not necessarily ‘good’, but worthwhile to them), but they should also be wrong in an ideological sense, so the hero can oppose them and explain why their take is wrong. Motivated =/= sympathetic and confusing the two means you end up with whining long think-pieces about why [villain] was actually right and you wonder if the screenwriter actually agrees with the villain’s terrible opinions but was obligated to make the heroes win. There’s a place for all kinds of villains (Puss in Boots: The Last Wish is amazing in that regard, amongst its many other strengths), but this problem is unique to the edgier ‘we live in a society’ type of stories.
god, that boat scene....I barely remember the movie, but I remember the boat scene so clearly. it was really beautiful. you're totally right
I liked the dancing a lot actually. He always danced after moments of power, as he got his gun or as he defended himself and took control over something by killing the Wallstreet guys in the subway. I like how you can see how much more comfortable he feels in his skin each time he dances, while at first he does it in private and very much in a defensive way, taking up little place and being a little unsure how to move, he later dances very openly and out in public even and his moves are powerful and confident.
Yeah that's what I feel. It really seperates him from how a well adjusted person would react -- but in a very visual and cool way.
and the first one was sort of tai chi - contemplative - then, later on, the dances became more fantastical and theatrical. you could track him becoming, very literally, the Clown Prince
Interesting. Still too much of it...
being in control of your body translates into being in control of your life. think about how powerful and confident a good dancer or acrobat must be, with how effortlessly they can contort and move their bodies (this naturally spills over in the sexual realm too, where power and confidence is a huge component).
I like how the banging his head turnt into dancing. He obviously holds alot of tension in his body and when he was doing that stuff and he danced is shows he was finally calmer
Well this aged well
I hope she reviews the sequel so bad
As someone who's brain ain't quite on straight; I can confirm that even my illogical tendencies do follow their own internal logic. Also being a magnet for actually mentally plagued individuals, and befriending them; they also tend towards specified behaviors, even in their delusions.
And as an amateur writer who does tend towards flawed, psychologically troubled characters (they are just more interesting) that even the most outrageously, over the top, super villain level, lunatic characters NEED an underlying motivation that drives them, and need consistency in that motive.
Yeah I have no issue with the joker deluding himself that he isn't political when he's acting about class and all. People lie to themselves all the time. You can make yourself out to be the victim despite doing dickish stuff. Or justify it on some other grounds. But there's usually some inherent logic, at least among the people who can genuinely function.
@@MF-R so that means you cant write a movie about Chaotic neutral or chaotic evil characters...? that is a bummer. comic movies are a good medium to explore chaotic characters because its meant to be over the top at least in some ways.
@@HisSecretSmile You can, you just have to be consistent with them being chaotic, set the limits of their chaotic ways and give them a clear motive.
The problem with the Joker is that it seems that him being chaotic is not intentional, it's just a mess. There's a dissonance between what the director was trying to tackle and the way Arthur acts.
Example: The narrative is trying to introduce the theme of differences in classes and the tension building between them, but Arthur is constantly running away from it and saying that he doesn't care about it. Ultimately doing nothing with it.
Just because you aren't neurotypical it doesn't mean that you can speak on behalf of the entire non-neurotypical community...
Sounds like we need a Joker prequel about the outsized strength of the Gotham City Clown Union.
That must be where the Joker gets all his henchmen. Also explains why the Penguin also had clown henchmen.
10/10 would watch
And the formation of the Super Rat
Meryl Streep joker may end up being your greatest contribution to humanity and I hope you're OK with that.
Clearly you didn't see her brony video and havent realised what a great mystery jenny truly is
its like they watched this video and decided to make joker 2 entirely just the things that jenny nicholson hated about the first one
actually crying physical tears at the Mama Mia Joker ad
thank god they weren't metaphysical tears. i'd get that checked out if they were
Oh wow, I actually missed that because I haven't seen either movie. I actually thought it was just a mama Mia trailer😂😂
I remember watching Joker and being disappointed by it because it just didn't feel like a film about the character of the Joker. It felt like a more generic story about a loner who doesn't fit in that has been told better in other movies with the DC comics stuff layered on top just so they could make money off of the name. Then I watched Taxi Driver for the first time a year or so later and understood the movie a lot better. It's more or less a not-as-good Taxi Driver. Juaquin Phoenix is pretty good, though.
Same. I watched Joker with my sister and I was disappointed for much of the same reasons that Jenny mentions here. I saw Taxi Driver like two weeks later and understood that Joker was more-or-less a homage to that film (and other Martin Scorsese works)
It’s a movie with a great actor that beats you over the head with his acting. Joaquin Phoenix is always great, you don’t have to have him act REALLY REALLY HARD the whole movie. It’s just *all of the acting.* It’s like seeing LeBron James just on the court showing everything he can do as opposed to watching him dominate an actual game. Or like seeing prime Barry Bonds in batting practice. Like, they’re both impressive, but he’s a great player; I’d rather watch him play the game.
It's a sanitized version of Taxi Driver with aspects of The King of Comedy sprinkled in.
It wants to be New Hollywood high art sleaze, but isn't sleazy enough or "high art" enough.
THANK YOU. I never believed that this guy could be the same Joker I saw in Batman '89, The Dark Knight, BTAS or even the damned 60s show. This was a well-made, if boring and dreary, movie about a sad boi with bad brains who gets kicked while he's down until he decides to murder some rich dudes. Also starring the character assassination of Thomas Wayne.
You should watch King of Comedy, as well.
Okay I loved all of the video, but honestly, that Mama Mia / Joker trailer mashup was one of the most amazing things I've seen in my life. I honestly wish I could've liked the video five more times just for that alone!
BlueSpider agreed, total stroke of genius
Apparently Joker sucked but Mamma Mia is high art. Your brain on feminism.
@@cockoffgewgle4993 ... nobody here said that Mama Mia was good. They just found the edit funny.
@@cockoffgewgle4993 Are you okay...?
@@cockoffgewgle4993 u ok bruh?
lmao some people are still mad at this video three years later. Jenny you're trending again
It’s kinda funny for all this “buzz”, this vid isn’t even in her top 20 most watched 🤣
Lmao some people still like this video three years later.
I dont even see any of the sour boys. Its just a bunch of people laughing at "reddit bros" and "owning the incels"
Like 98% of the comments are people agreeing with her, wheres the "backlash"
@@Tikky503 Scroll past the comments pushed up by the TH-cam algorithm my dude. Look for the comments with single digit or no likes at all with many replies. Find the comments deeply-buried by the algorithm because they contained offensive language. It's 2022 now, you've got to be aware social media platforms use many algorithms to manipulate the mood of different parts of their sites. Outrage only drives clicks when it's in the title; harmony and positivity in the comment section are what keeps people in a community and coming back for more. Not to mention the majority of backlash came from when this was initially uploaded. Re-enabling the dislike counter via plugins and whatnot should give you more than enough evidence for a backlash.
If you have no patience to scroll that far, then sort the comments by newest, you'll definitely find the "fabled" comments you argued don't exist. For instance, 1 month ago: "You mean a privileged, leftist woman didn't like Joker, a film about how society treats men like dogshit and pushes them over the edge? Quite the spicy take indeed."
@@notit7282 society does treat men like dogshit and pushes them over the edge in a lot of different ways, but why did he call her "privileged leftist"?... what did she say that was "left"...
Anyway youre right, I dont have patience to scroll to the weeds.
Jenny: I’m assuming you’ve seen the movie
Girl, I don’t plan to watch 90% of the films you talk about
This is a big mood
Not even momma Mia 2?!?!
Why would I when I can watch internet people tear the movies apart from the comfort of my own home
I don't care enough about the movie to watch it, just enough to watch a video of someone who's watched and is complaining about it
As a person with limited free time, watching youtube pop culture analyses seems like a pretty suitable defence against Sturgeon's Law.
Jenny: "Everything around the character starts going unrealistically wrong, all at the same time".
2020: Hold my beer, guys...
And two weeks later, the entire country is burning
real talk tho, people DO experience things going wrong in their lives "unrealistically" at the same time.
Coronavirus is the only true bad thing this year that probably affected you. Everything else is exaggerated bullshit. And even COVID is technically from 2019.
@@peterk.9571
Minneapolis burned and then everything else has been mostly peaceful till the police do shit
@@peterk.9571 And it's the cops fault
I really like the idea of them cutting back and forth between Arthur’s story and having his doctor pointing out slight inconsistencies. That’s way better than some slapped on ending scene.
I'd slap on the ending that his story ends up being a complete lie, as "Arthur"is just another of his aliases(like Joseph Kerr, Jack White, etc;)and this is just a therapy session after his latest arrest by the Batman and the therapist asks for his real name, which he never gives(Joker always works better when his backstory is not concrete).
I was also thinking that maybe we could’ve gotten several different backstories shown when he’s talking to different people in Arkham
@@phousefilms I'd also argue he works better without Harley.
@@phousefilms and harley works better without him
Once again she was ahead of her time
Exactly!!