I had been riding a Haibike Nduro 9.0 & it has been a problem Free Mountain Bike for the last 4 years. But I just bought a WATTWAGON Hydra & It's a quantum leap in off-road technology. Full suspension carbon fiber frame with Archon X1 controller & up to 2000W From a Bafang Ultra Motor M620 48V 1000W Peak Battery: 48V, 880Wh, 18650 cells Range: 30-55 miles per charge Torque: 120-230Nm & I'm mountain riding with a couple guys much younger than my 74yrs a have no problem getting to the top of any of the San Grabiel Mountain we ride here in Southern CA
I have over 3600km on my Bafang BBHSD. More power than bikes 4x the price. I put it on an old downhill hard tail with a thudbuster seat post, so as to not lose any torque with the rear suspension. Ebikes are the future and bafang has a jump on the mass market.
I was really looking forward to this video.....and was very disappointed. That brings us to Yamaha which of course has the eco+ mode and that is all you said about Yamaha. I love your videos but this one is really poor with just a tiny snippet of info on each motor. Come on guys give us a motor video of substance...something we can really get into.
Hi there, yes i can appreciate what your saying here and sorry to disappoint. My aim was just to do a summary/overview,, an update of where we were at in terms of motors. An in- depth look at each one would be a very long video
@@stevejones7956 But you are the guys who can pull that of and give us that! And we are interested in the differences, positives n cons, comparisons etc. Sure long and many videos, but I think you have the experience to do that and people will listen to your advice and information, hence more views :) Keep up the good work!
I seen the Yamaha at the motorcycle show of all places and in the demo it seemed like all the others with the exception of the Bagfang, which have alot more power. I honestly think all of these systems are just as reliable as the next, I first seen the bafang system before ebikes were a thing, waited a number of years and bought the same system I seen all those years ago but with a ton of reviews and a general consensus that they're very reliable and you can convert your current bike for about $700
I have a Bafang conversion, and a Yamaha on a Haibike, both very good, the Bafang is much quieter, but the Yamaha with torque sensor is a better performer. Spare Yamaha battery is very expensive, my Bafang with equivalent Wh battery has better range and the battery is less than half the price of the Yamaha. I fully expect Bafang to become a dominant player in this market, they have been making motors in different markets for years, so they have the experience. Thanks for the video.
I have had Befang BBs01+02 and they work great, then the spindle i found out cannot cope with heat and shattered as it is made of poor metal quality, i so far have replaced motor 4+ times and i upgraded the motor to 350w after the first time it let me down. I have not tried the bigger motors yet but they all use the same spindle from coil system i.e coil is wrapped around this spindle and cannot be removed or upgraded as it is all one unit. I found this out as i gave it to a friend who works at a company that makes magnet coils.
@@stevejones7956 The bafang motors are silent to be honest compared to Bosch Yamaha ect there is a massive diy community i would say bafang is already the most dominant motor provider as gabriel mentioned and has been for a few years now. They are also super reliable in most cases my bbshd has well over 2000 miles and my partners bike is the same so over 4k miles combined i have not done a thing to it motor wise and it's been abused. With the eggrider display or the bafang programing cable you can can also adjust all the motor settings on the fly or at home with a laptop to set it up how you want the motor power to cut in and out how much assist you receive ect ect ect for the cost of motors when bolted to a decent bike I think they are hard to beat pound for pound. Batteries are much easier and cheaper as well so easily can extended range at a fraction the cost with diy but that's a whole different conversation for example my main battery is 1512wh i also have a 840wh. The only 2 down sides to bafang diy bike to shop bought Emtb is motor bottom bracket height and just the general look slash integration of the motor. I personally don't mind a well set up cadence based pedal assist system over torque based they both have there + and - points same as most things lol. To have 160nm of torque at the push of a few buttons if needed takes CLIMBING to a whole different level lol. I don't think Chris Smith the other day would of had much trouble beating the uplift land rover. I have 9 assist levels and have reprogrammed it to use 6 of them I have 4 levels set up for trail riding going up in roughly 50 to 100w increments so like eco to Boost mode Then have level 5 set up for climbs and 6 is maximum power.
In idaal, in addition to the torque of the motor itself, you need to smoke a moment on the wheel of the bike itself (those should be written in a range from say 20 to say 200) well, or the average value is good to indicate ... although ..., I repeat - video This is the upper and lower daipozon After all, a lot depends on From tarnmsmisii but it’s important that the bike with the radder is important that it’s cool. It will be bad and despite looking at a good engine with good torque HERE what is important noskulekulyanty vesgomira - of course Just silly or prsoto are silent as well as weight (most likely this is a combination of stupidity and silence) they’ll probably speculate on how much later they will improve like aafaon and again they will speculate, and so on every little thing and improvement This is prsoto capitalism .. it’s profitable to sell it Immediately better and more consumingly to extrude the press for decades (but there’s so much strength in presentation and other sermons from the show)
Bafang bbshd has no torque sensor right? If yes its rubbish. I went from bbs02b 500W to tongsheng tdz2 500W and the difference is amazing simply because of latter having torque sensor.
I love love love my BBSHD, not sure why you wouldn't pick it. 160nm of torque and silent running. Oh, and that 1000w is underrated especially if you mod it with an egg rider.
Just bought my first e bike, it’s a Levo Expert 2020 with Brose 90 Nm torque and a 700 Wh battery. So far, I’m happy with it and made my choice looking at motor and battery power first.
I can't speak about Bosch mountain bike motors, but I've dealt with a lot of Bosch parts over the years. Mostly cheap junk that they charge a fortune for. I know a Bosch authorized parts dealer in Florida and he makes a fortune fixing cars with Bosch parts. I'd go with Asian parts over German parts any day, but that's just my opinion.
@@turboduckhead6179 quality?? Then why do so many parts fail early on German cars?? I deliver parts for a living & I see a lot of starters, alternators, ac compressors, struts & shocks failing with way less than 100k miles. That stuff does not fail early on Japanese cars. My Camry has 225k and I just replaced the water pump this weekend. Everything else is original still.
@@Barneyrubble241 You are talking as if components will run forever. Germany was the world’s number 1 country for manufacturing until recently when China over took them. But based on population size German is number 1.
@@turboduckhead6179 I strongly disagree, America was #1 from WW2 until China overtook. Germany over engineers everything meaning they fail right when they were designed to. Japan just made (until late 2000s) the strongest part for the least amount of cost. China is just stealing every design they can with varying execution, some stuff is great other stuff is DOA and QC is now left to the assemblers.
@@k20nutz That is not true. After WW2, Germany and Japan had sanctions banning them from building any kind of weapons. The rest of the world was focused on building better weapons while Germany and Japan could only focus on building better non military products. Britain were the best at making crank shafts until Japan took over. The German car market offers some the best cars in the world. American cars can’t go round corners. Made in America is a myth, it’s propaganda.
I'm affraid there is only one king in this field: Bafang Ultra with Inno-trace controller. Depending on controller option you can get even 240Nm of torque and 3kW. This is simply crazy! On mine i have 1600W, 160Nm and 910Wh and it's sooooooooo better than ANY other Bosh, Shimano, Broose systems i've been using before.
The future of motor are the ones with gearbox i have a BBSHD it crazy fast with a metal gear from lunacycle i have a 4000w controller with a 92v battery i get 80km and if i frash it i get 50km its a beast i used to be a motocross rider
to me most displays look absolutely shitty compared to the rest of an highend e-bike really glad that the YT Decoy has everything for a nice price, well designed and in the right place
@@craponlycomesoutadogsarse1731 you can try it on certain events, YT has some events / tours, at YT Mills you can also ride any bike (i did so before buying) but yeah it's not that easy, you're right. btw mail order only can also save you a lot of money; not to mention every aspect / pro & con; ) but it can make a considerable difference to the customer imo
It's perfect .Nice and short ,gives people information about most popular motors without putting one to sleep with too much technical details. Having this information one can go to specific manufacturing website and get all the details you need.
You are very hardworking and provides good valuable information to entire world. Congratulations & salute Please also provide information regarding tendam bicycles all types
Yamaha is 20 years ahead of anyone else in this. They invented these systems in early 1990s. They have the best, most reliable and refined motors in the market IMO. I have ridden most all mainstream motors, nothing beats Yamaha in the long term.
Price is ridiculous on these bikes , Bafang BBSHD can perform better and has better value for money. Best part about Bafang mid drives is the knowledge you gain while installing the motor and accessories. You become instantly an average bike mechanic. If I win the lottery I might consider one on your list.
Hi Guys I have a Yamaha on a Giant Reign E2Pro and I run it in level 3, in this mode it lasts me easily half days riding at my local mtb park getting me back up to the top for my next down hill run with all the power I need. Ps loving your show 👍
I got bogged down looking at motors, ended up buying an Orange Charger with Shimano E8000 and have had such fun riding it, feel like a kid again . Only ran out of juice once at the end of the day at a bike park using turbo for all the climbing as no uplift. Can get so many more runs in and didn't even feel tired. Don't get bogged down worrying about the motors, in a years time they'll all be different anyway......
I have a Yamaha in my ebike and prefer it over the Bosch after trying both. The biggest upside of the Yamaha for me is that it completely disconnects from the drive train if the power is either turned off or the battery goes flat. Important for me because I spend at least half my riding time with the motor turned off. Can't say that about the Bosch (don't know about the others) since it stays engaged creating drag which makes it a PITA to ride the bike.
Scott, with the E8000, love it because you can forget it's there as it causes no resistance, bar the weight of course! ;-) So two bikes in one, well sort of anyway.
I'm a Brit who lives in Mongolia. I ordered a Dengfu E05 pre-built bike. It comes with a Bafang M600 500W 48V 672Wh battery. I upgraded the components from SRIDE to SRAM. It comes with Rockshox full suspension. So, most parts are well known brands. Just the frame and wheels less name. It costs £2803 including shipping. I might've considered a better known brand but they aren't available in Mongolia. I did hear about 1 for sale here but it cost about 2x-3x more. Too steep for my budget. I haven't received the Dengfu yet but reviews seem positive enough so I'm hopeful it will be a decent bike.
Love the channel, but please stop with the Bafang dismissing. The've been in the mountainbike market for years and a have max of 160nm of torque, not 120. There are millions of us. The ultra, though heavy, is in a leage of its own. At 52v you get 30-40 miles easy. huge battey options. M600/M500 is very competitive with all the snob brands that cost so much and can't be tuned. My full suspension, Ultra Fat bike brings milles of smiles every ride. We all have different priorites. You use salt I'll use pepper and we can both enjoy.👍
Hi just seen your comment, thinking of getting the bbso2 but ive only ever seen a 48v battery been used with them, can a 52v battery be used with them and do other changes need to be made, thanks.
@@markweatherall7437 I've read they can handle 52v and from my experience they can, I think the displays might care about it so I got the one with the buttons integrated into it, it's the only one that's rated to 60v.
@@Tasteful_Living e8000 has been flawless for 2 years and 5K miles but just recently burnt up a wiring harness connector. harness was replaced but its starting to discolor again. note 240 lb and commonly in turbo.
Great video overall! The feel of the Brose is great. The downside is you cannot use the full 90nm reliably without the belt or nylon gears failing at some point. Endless reports of this. It's not a great feeling knowing your motor might fail at the most in innoportune time. Personally on my 3rd motor in just 9 months. Next bike will not have a Brose that's for sure.
I choosed the fazua motor, cause even if they stop producing the motor or fazua goes bankrupt one day, i still can ride my focus as a normal mtb. And it is very light compared to other e-mtb's 🙂
Bafang makes motors up to 160nm not 120. And they are already in the emtb market. By far the #1 seller of emtb motors. No other company is close to how many they sell.
keep in mind the numbers can paint a decieving picture.Also different software can make it feel like a whole nother animal. Keep those wheels turning and dig in to those motors deeper!
I bought a 2019 Trek Powerfly FS5 it replaces the 2014 Trek x-calibre hardtail. It was 2 years ago that I first rode a Trek Powerfly FS5 at a demo day.I was sold on it there and then so after much saving I now have my e-mtb. I have found it to be brilliant there has been many times I've exceeded the 32k limit without knowing so I can recommend the Bosch motor. I'm getting up to 100ks before recharging.
I'm concern about the problems Brose had on their 2.1 motor specially on the Specialized Turbo Levo. I'm saying that because I'm about to get a bike and I'm not sure to go for the Turbo Levo Comp with the Brose motor or the Orbea Wild fs H20 with the Bosh Gen 4....which one do you recommend?..thank you
I have a Canyon Spectral Carbon and am thinking of getting an ebike. My wife has a Luna 750W X-1 with the Bafang M600. I tested her bike over 30 miles last weekend. This weekend I tried a Trek 9.8 XT. The Bosch Gen4 with update really does feel anemic compared to the 750W Bafang. The Luna really does have 750W nominal. The 250W euro motor feels quite pathetic compared to the M600. The down side is that the M600 tuned by Luna is much more on/off with little in between. The emtb of the bosch feels natural, but the M600 has tons of power. Now I'm reconsidering the Levo or Trek 9.8 purchase and thinking the Luna M600 ultra 1kW might be better. The ultimate would be for Canyon or YT to switch to a better motor and away from the Shimano.
most e bikes are now more expensive than my dirt bike which is a real motorcycle. The amount of money wasted by rich people wanting to lose weight is just insane.
I wanted to upgrade my donor bike, 1997 Specialized Stumpjumper Pro, to a 250-500 watt mid drive. Are there other options then Bafang, for a DIY upgrade kit? I rode one of the very early Bosch motors at Sea Otter event in Northern California about 4-5 years ago. It had enough barely power (250 watt?) and the battery range was limited. It seems like everyone is selling direct to companies for use in their branded bikes. I wanted to keep the weight down and the price to make the build affordable and fun to ride. Any suggestions other than Bafang, for a DIY conversion kit, I have about $500-$1,000 to burn.
I have just picked up a Trek Electric bicycle from Goodwill, wow my dream came true!, However, it did not come with Mid Drive motor, the owner took out the motor and donated it. I know Trek uses Bosch mid drive motor, I can't seem to find which motor this bike came with,,,,, Is it okay for me to buy any mid drive motor from Bosch? and just install? or do every electric bicycle have different mounting sockets dedicated to each different electric motor...?
Bosch has better warranty than all others on batteries. Each time you connect a charger on other brands they take a away a full charge cycle wether it’s fully charged or on for 2 minutes. Bosch only take away what you actually charged so if you charge 10% they take 10% of a charge cycle other brands take 100% even if you charge only 1% And they are shortly increasing the gen 4 motor to 90nm from its current 75nm as the motor is a capable of 110nm but is software limited to 75nm
A quick-release throttle is a _brilliant_ idea. You should probably find someone to help engineer & patent that. Seriously. I want one. What's the quote? "Shut up & take my money."
The throttle is easy, just unplug the wire and use a cam lock like the quiver on a Killer instinct crossbow to mount it. The hard part is getting these bleeding vaginas to allow over 250w in a park
Excellent as always... my limited experience is that all the motors are great. I prefer the original Brose over the latest Mag S in my new Levo as the old levo was more natural feeling and quieter, but the new motor is more efficient. Bosch CX 3 had an enjoyable character though technically worse, so again it’s a case of they’re all fine. I am curious about the new SL, I keep telling myself it’s not for me... but it could be a very enjoyable ride.
I have been test riding Ebikes for about to get the right one? I am having more trouble finding the right side frame. L or XL ? It all depends on the bike So what is the best bike for long days in the saddle? & for smashing down the trail when I need to? I have taken a lot of ebikes out & then the day came were I took the Whyte e150s out on a demo ride & I was hooked XL e150rs with a 150mm dropper seatpost. It fits & does everything I need it to do. I am so glad I took my time looking for the right bike.
My first ebike was a Canondale Neo Hard tail with the Shimano motor and my new ebike is a Trek Powerfly 5 fs and have really liked the Shamano motor better, found it much smother and stronger but it’s hard to compare in one way as my Shimano was ton a hard tail and the Bousch motor is the n a full suspension so some people say the bousch motor has to work harder because of the full suspension, I would sure like to try a full suspension with the Shimano motor to really see the comparison.
I haven't bought mine yet, but a big concern of mine is how long I'm going to be able to get replacement parts/battery's for, I tend to keep bike for 7/8 years, and as technology pushes forward, I don't want to be left in the lurch with a bike with terrible battery life or something I can't fix!
I like the look of the turbo levo hard tail a lot and it fits within cycle to work scheme budget. I have a older cube 500sl with the bosch performance line cx will I be disapointed with the brose 1.2e 50nm and the 400wh battery ? Should I go for a cube 625 exc with bosch gen 4? I'm about 16 stone so should I be thinking torque? Will the blevo app make the levo more lively?
Nice review. I am glad you mentioned Bafang. I live in the US and Bafang is a motor that is seen on many DIY bikes, however , the m600 is used on Frey, FLX, and Luna. I have recently ordered 2 luna X1 enduro, they are carbon, check them out. I agree Bafang will start to appear on European MTB, it's just a matter of time.
Lot to squeeze into one video! Was surprised to know of multitude of options in motors. For me quiet and smooth motor is as important as torque power and efficiency. What's special about yamahas eco plus, i often turn off the assist in my e bike and it becomes eco plus plus mode. Could we have a single video comparing 2 or 3 motors at similar power range. That will do all the motors justice
I have yamaha pw 250. 2000 miles so far no problems, seems a bit more noisy at times than when new. Be interested to see how many miles I get out of it....
Mid Drive is way more expensive, requires much more maintenance, and is more complex to operate. Install can be very expensive because of the complexity. On the positive side, Mid drives can climb better, and provide a nice cruising speed for the long haul open road., and have a better center of gravity for better handling for those that race to win. Hub motors are much less expensive, zero maintenance, and super simple to use and operate. DC brushless Hub motors only have 3 moving parts. Rotor and 2 bearings. That is all. Very reliable and can make a ton of speed and power depending on controller and battery. Install for a Hub motor is simple, especially for a front hub but make sure to use and install a torque arm for a front hub install.
You never talk about Giant bikes, you will talk for hours about specialized and how they tweak the brose motor to suit them, but giant never get a look in, they tweak the Yamaha motor and make it more powerful, why is that less noteworthy.
eclipsethesun wow!! Mr sheep, you did take the blue pill didn’t you! I will stick to my super reliable motor endorsed by Valentino Rossi and you stick to you “Ferrari” powered by what was a windscreen washer motor in a previous life.
It's called sponsorship. Did you see Mahle mentioned on this list, the actual company that designs and manufactures the motor for lightweight Specialized e-bikes? Instead we are given the marketing info that seems to claim it's Specialized's own motor. At the beginning Bosch gets the plug they have a huge support network not mentioned for the other brands but no mention that you'd need such support because of the poor reliability of many of their motors. As ever with videos like this enjoy them but understand they are not unbiased and take their comments with a pinch of salt. Look at the forums to find out how people are getting on with their purchases and if they have problems getting spares or reliability issues. Make an informed choice. This is effectively an advertisement skewed towards their sponsors.
As most mainstream Bikes seem to have Bosch or shimano, which do you prefer? Bosch (gen 4) seem a bit more powerful (625wh, 70nm) but seems to make a bit of noise, are the shimano smoother?
Where is the comparison? Where is recommendation? Where is data? And stop advertising Specialized! We know what is out there, but it would be great to hear differences in different aspects like drag, power consumption, noise and reliability of the motors!
Hi very interesting article. I am 6"8 tall very keen on buying my first Emb money providing!!🤑😪 What you would you main points you would look for my first emb. What is a reasonable starting price point.?
what would be great is something akin to the JD power survey for eMTB motors. I was super excited to see the new specialized bike but then i read there specialized forums holy smokes a lot of upset people with soggy motors... but it lacks context is there a higher ownership/ then proportionally you'd see more people posting problems or does the brose have underlying flaws? The guy you need on your show is the one that's on the (emtb) forums who repairs them. Seemed like he had a fairly pragmatic view and knew the common areas of concern offering some good buyer beware advice.
Hi Steve my brothers bought a new levo and wanting to de restrict it straight out the box. I have been trying to advise him not too.he has a 4 year warranty i think it would be stupid to derestrict it and loose his warranty considering motors do fail and problems happen. Do you have any advice to support what I say thanks Callum
I'm running the Vitus with an E8000 and it's been brilliant. A year of abuse and it's still running flawlessly. I can't say the same for friend with the more common specialized bikes. The only mod I've done is to add some Moto foam to the cable entry point to stop too much grim getting in.
As I dont need the torque sensing, I prefer the BBSHD. Buy it from Lunacycle and upgrade the controller to the Ludicrous 3000w model. NONE of the others come close to that. I have had my 3k watt BBSHD for 2 years and have over 4k miles on it. 50MPH and 100+mile range for $1200 and put it on almost any bike frame you want. Plus the motor is still stamped as 750w so cops wont mess with you unless you ride like and a hole. Then you just deserve it.
Do some brands of e-bike engines have more problems than other ? ? I did buy a Merida e-bike. Engine by Shimano. The first day ,after 2,5 km. The engine was broken ( E010 & W013 Error ). I'm now waiting that my dealer fix the problem . . ( sorry for my bad English - Greetings from Belgium ).
Which motor do you have on your E-Bike? Let us know 👇
unlocked Shimano e7000
Lift mtb... MY1016 with helical gears 👌
Paradox Kinetics 1500w
Ducati MIG RR with Shimano E8000 .. it's my first EBike and I love it.
I have a Bosch performance line-cx generation 3, on a mondraker and its perfect 👌👍👍
I had been riding a Haibike Nduro 9.0 & it has been a problem Free Mountain Bike for the last 4 years. But I just bought a WATTWAGON Hydra & It's a quantum leap in off-road technology. Full suspension carbon fiber frame with Archon X1 controller & up to 2000W From a
Bafang Ultra Motor M620 48V 1000W Peak
Battery: 48V, 880Wh, 18650 cells
Range: 30-55 miles per charge
Torque: 120-230Nm & I'm mountain riding with a couple guys much younger than my 74yrs a have no problem getting to the top of any of the San Grabiel Mountain we ride here in Southern CA
I have over 3600km on my Bafang BBHSD. More power than bikes 4x the price.
I put it on an old downhill hard tail with a thudbuster seat post, so as to not lose any torque with the rear suspension.
Ebikes are the future and bafang has a jump on the mass market.
Last week I went up Pikes Peak BBSHD. Not a problem.
I was really looking forward to this video.....and was very disappointed. That brings us to Yamaha which of course has the eco+ mode and that is all you said about Yamaha. I love your videos but this one is really poor with just a tiny snippet of info on each motor. Come on guys give us a motor video of substance...something we can really get into.
Hi there, yes i can appreciate what your saying here and sorry to disappoint. My aim was just to do a summary/overview,, an update of where we were at in terms of motors. An in- depth look at each one would be a very long video
Radders in the wild ....I totally agree ..Hardly ever hear about Yamaha or Syncdrive and by the way Giant bikes..
@@stevejones7956 But you are the guys who can pull that of and give us that! And we are interested in the differences, positives n cons, comparisons etc. Sure long and many videos, but I think you have the experience to do that and people will listen to your advice and information, hence more views :) Keep up the good work!
yea i must say i was dissapointed didnt live up to the title
I seen the Yamaha at the motorcycle show of all places and in the demo it seemed like all the others with the exception of the Bagfang, which have alot more power. I honestly think all of these systems are just as reliable as the next, I first seen the bafang system before ebikes were a thing, waited a number of years and bought the same system I seen all those years ago but with a ton of reviews and a general consensus that they're very reliable and you can convert your current bike for about $700
I have a Bafang conversion, and a Yamaha on a Haibike, both very good, the Bafang is much quieter, but the Yamaha with torque sensor is a better performer. Spare Yamaha battery is very expensive, my Bafang with equivalent Wh battery has better range and the battery is less than half the price of the Yamaha.
I fully expect Bafang to become a dominant player in this market, they have been making motors in different markets for years, so they have the experience.
Thanks for the video.
Thanks John, yes super quiet motors, and yes i think they might well become more dominant right?
Bafang already sells more mid drive motors than any other company, its just mostly unnoticed because they are not being sold to the major bike brands.
I have had Befang BBs01+02 and they work great, then the spindle i found out cannot cope with heat and shattered as it is made of poor metal quality, i so far have replaced motor 4+ times and i upgraded the motor to 350w after the first time it let me down.
I have not tried the bigger motors yet but they all use the same spindle from coil system i.e coil is wrapped around this spindle and cannot be removed or upgraded as it is all one unit. I found this out as i gave it to a friend who works at a company that makes magnet coils.
@@stevejones7956 The bafang motors are silent to be honest compared to Bosch Yamaha ect there is a massive diy community i would say bafang is already the most dominant motor provider as gabriel mentioned and has been for a few years now.
They are also super reliable in most cases my bbshd has well over 2000 miles and my partners bike is the same so over 4k miles combined i have not done a thing to it motor wise and it's been abused. With the eggrider display or the bafang programing cable you can can also adjust all the motor settings on the fly or at home with a laptop to set it up how you want the motor power to cut in and out how much assist you receive ect ect ect for the cost of motors when bolted to a decent bike I think they are hard to beat pound for pound.
Batteries are much easier and cheaper as well so easily can extended range at a fraction the cost with diy but that's a whole different conversation for example my main battery is 1512wh i also have a 840wh.
The only 2 down sides to bafang diy bike to shop bought Emtb is motor bottom bracket height and just the general look slash integration of the motor. I personally don't mind a well set up cadence based pedal assist system over torque based they both have there + and - points same as most things lol.
To have 160nm of torque at the push of a few buttons if needed takes CLIMBING to a whole different level lol. I don't think Chris Smith the other day would of had much trouble beating the uplift land rover.
I have 9 assist levels and have reprogrammed it to use 6 of them I have 4 levels set up for trail riding going up in roughly 50 to 100w increments so like eco to Boost mode Then have level 5 set up for climbs and 6 is maximum power.
is dominant because its cheap, just like wal mart. If you want a well engineered motor you go with bosch or yahama.
I chose the Trek Rail with Bosch gen4 with Speedbox 3.0 awesome motor with smooth in and out of power. Best bike too.
@@chrislomas9886 look for my upcoming review of the speedbox unrestricted Trek Rail 9
Let us know how u get on if u do software update (pls)!?!
Yamaha Haibike 3years running & going strong. Not a problem ever
bafang bbshd has 160nm of torque as does the ultra as well not 120nm
Frey bikes uses bafang motors and they have downhill and enduro geometries...i have the am1000 and its a life changer
In idaal, in addition to the torque of the motor itself, you need to smoke a moment on the wheel of the bike itself
(those should be written in a range from say 20 to say 200) well, or the average value is good to indicate ...
although ..., I repeat - video This is the upper and lower daipozon
After all, a lot depends on From tarnmsmisii
but it’s important that the bike with the radder is important that it’s cool. It will be bad and despite looking at a good engine with good torque
HERE what is important
noskulekulyanty vesgomira - of course Just silly or prsoto are silent as well as weight
(most likely this is a combination of stupidity and silence) they’ll probably speculate on how much later they will improve like aafaon and again they will speculate, and so on every little thing and improvement
This is prsoto capitalism .. it’s profitable to sell it Immediately better and more consumingly to extrude the press for decades (but there’s so much strength in presentation and other sermons from the show)
Bafang bbshd has no torque sensor right? If yes its rubbish. I went from bbs02b 500W to tongsheng tdz2 500W and the difference is amazing simply because of latter having torque sensor.
@@dariuslankarian3282 if you had a bafang motor you would no the answer to that lol
@@danielgreen4213 ok sure, I had the bbs02B and its designed for lazy people. Totally unnatural feeling. Tongsheng feels more natural.
I’d get a Bosch motor, but ability to repair and tinker is important to me. So I won’t go for one of those.
Any of them, all of them, just get one and you’ll be happy no matter what.
I love love love my BBSHD, not sure why you wouldn't pick it. 160nm of torque and silent running. Oh, and that 1000w is underrated especially if you mod it with an egg rider.
Egg rider?
Just bought my first e bike, it’s a Levo Expert 2020 with Brose 90 Nm torque and a 700 Wh battery. So far, I’m happy with it and made my choice looking at motor and battery power first.
not push it to much
I can't speak about Bosch mountain bike motors, but I've dealt with a lot of Bosch parts over the years. Mostly cheap junk that they charge a fortune for. I know a Bosch authorized parts dealer in Florida and he makes a fortune fixing cars with Bosch parts. I'd go with Asian parts over German parts any day, but that's just my opinion.
German parts are expensive because they quality made.
You have to remember the best components are made on German manufactured tooling.
@@turboduckhead6179 quality?? Then why do so many parts fail early on German cars?? I deliver parts for a living & I see a lot of starters, alternators, ac compressors, struts & shocks failing with way less than 100k miles. That stuff does not fail early on Japanese cars. My Camry has 225k and I just replaced the water pump this weekend. Everything else is original still.
@@Barneyrubble241 You are talking as if components will run forever.
Germany was the world’s number 1 country for manufacturing until recently when China over took them. But based on population size German is number 1.
@@turboduckhead6179 I strongly disagree, America was #1 from WW2 until China overtook.
Germany over engineers everything meaning they fail right when they were designed to. Japan just made (until late 2000s) the strongest part for the least amount of cost.
China is just stealing every design they can with varying execution, some stuff is great other stuff is DOA and QC is now left to the assemblers.
@@k20nutz That is not true. After WW2, Germany and Japan had sanctions banning them from building any kind of weapons. The rest of the world was focused on building better weapons while Germany and Japan could only focus on building better non military products.
Britain were the best at making crank shafts until Japan took over. The German car market offers some the best cars in the world.
American cars can’t go round corners.
Made in America is a myth, it’s propaganda.
Just very basic information, each of these motors would deserve thorough review and test.
I'm affraid there is only one king in this field: Bafang Ultra with Inno-trace controller. Depending on controller option you can get even 240Nm of torque and 3kW. This is simply crazy! On mine i have 1600W, 160Nm and 910Wh and it's sooooooooo better than ANY other Bosh, Shimano, Broose systems i've been using before.
The future of motor are the ones with gearbox i have a BBSHD it crazy fast with a metal gear from lunacycle i have a 4000w controller with a 92v battery i get 80km and if i frash it i get 50km its a beast i used to be a motocross rider
to me most displays look absolutely shitty compared to the rest of an highend e-bike
really glad that the YT Decoy has everything for a nice price, well designed and in the right place
Except it’s mail order so you can’t try it and it has different sized wheels which I am yet to be convinced of.
@@craponlycomesoutadogsarse1731 you can try it on certain events, YT has some events / tours, at YT Mills you can also ride any bike (i did so before buying) but yeah it's not that easy, you're right.
btw mail order only can also save you a lot of money; not to mention every aspect / pro & con; ) but it can make a considerable difference to the customer imo
@@craponlycomesoutadogsarse1731 i really like the mixed wheel sizes but i guess there is no general wrong or right 🙂
bosch Kiox puts any bafang computer to shame.
It's perfect .Nice and short ,gives people information about most popular motors
without putting one to sleep with too much technical details. Having this information one can go to specific manufacturing website and get all the details you need.
You are very hardworking and provides good valuable information to entire world. Congratulations & salute
Please also provide information regarding tendam bicycles all types
Yamaha is 20 years ahead of anyone else in this. They invented these systems in early 1990s. They have the best, most reliable and refined motors in the market IMO. I have ridden most all mainstream motors, nothing beats Yamaha in the long term.
true. while bosch f...s around with software updates and broken electronics yamahas offerings just dont die
Price is ridiculous on these bikes , Bafang BBSHD can perform better and has better value for money. Best part about Bafang mid drives is the knowledge you gain while installing the motor and accessories. You become instantly an average bike mechanic. If I win the lottery I might consider one on your list.
I prepare to go for bafang from china, i think it the cheapest midrive motor but also have a quality.
Hi Guys I have a Yamaha on a Giant Reign E2Pro and I run it in level 3, in this mode it lasts me easily half days riding at my local mtb park getting me back up to the top for my next down hill run with all the power I need. Ps loving your show 👍
until you run into motor issues, Giant e very hard to work on
I got bogged down looking at motors, ended up buying an Orange Charger with Shimano E8000 and have had such fun riding it, feel like a kid again . Only ran out of juice once at the end of the day at a bike park using turbo for all the climbing as no uplift. Can get so many more runs in and didn't even feel tired. Don't get bogged down worrying about the motors, in a years time they'll all be different anyway......
The bafang 1000watt has 160nm torque, i also have a Bafang 350 watt hub motor with 80nm.
I have a Yamaha in my ebike and prefer it over the Bosch after trying both. The biggest upside of the Yamaha for me is that it completely disconnects from the drive train if the power is either turned off or the battery goes flat. Important for me because I spend at least half my riding time with the motor turned off. Can't say that about the Bosch (don't know about the others) since it stays engaged creating drag which makes it a PITA to ride the bike.
Bafang Ultra/G510/M620 has 160nm of torque.
Iv been watching a TH-cam/Andykirby Vapour the Ultimate eMTB yes its a Bafang
And M615 too
Scott, with the E8000, love it because you can forget it's there as it causes no resistance, bar the weight of course! ;-) So two bikes in one, well sort of anyway.
I'm a Brit who lives in Mongolia. I ordered a Dengfu E05 pre-built bike. It comes with a Bafang M600 500W 48V 672Wh battery. I upgraded the components from SRIDE to SRAM. It comes with Rockshox full suspension. So, most parts are well known brands. Just the frame and wheels less name. It costs £2803 including shipping. I might've considered a better known brand but they aren't available in Mongolia. I did hear about 1 for sale here but it cost about 2x-3x more. Too steep for my budget.
I haven't received the Dengfu yet but reviews seem positive enough so I'm hopeful it will be a decent bike.
I have 4 ebikes with Yamaha, bosch and bafang. Bafang>Yamaha>Bosch. Just my experience.
Very interesting. Guess I shouldn't fret getting a bafang then
@@Brandon_Neil no way you get the same range from a bafang that you'll get from bosch or yahama.
@@xmateinc everything about battery...
Love the channel, but please stop with the Bafang dismissing. The've been in the mountainbike market for years and a have max of 160nm of torque, not 120. There are millions of us. The ultra, though heavy, is in a leage of its own. At 52v you get 30-40 miles easy. huge battey options. M600/M500 is very competitive with all the snob brands that cost so much and can't be tuned. My full suspension, Ultra Fat bike brings milles of smiles every ride. We all have different priorites. You use salt I'll use pepper and we can both enjoy.👍
Bafang bb02 750w kit, you can put it on anything, pulls 35mph on 52v
Hi just seen your comment, thinking of getting the bbso2 but ive only ever seen a 48v battery been used with them, can a 52v battery be used with them and do other changes need to be made, thanks.
my bosch performance speed gets 60mph per charge.
@@markweatherall7437 I've read they can handle 52v and from my experience they can, I think the displays might care about it so I got the one with the buttons integrated into it, it's the only one that's rated to 60v.
@@xmateinc do you mean 60mi of range?
@@danmcdonald726 thanks for your reply. Do you have the model number of that display please.
Shimano E8000. Been problem free.
I want to buy a bike with e8000 Shimano on are still happy with your Shimano bike
@@Tasteful_Living e8000 has been flawless for 2 years and 5K miles but just recently burnt up a wiring harness connector. harness was replaced but its starting to discolor again. note 240 lb and commonly in turbo.
Great video overall! The feel of the Brose is great. The downside is you cannot use the full 90nm reliably without the belt or nylon gears failing at some point. Endless reports of this. It's not a great feeling knowing your motor might fail at the most in innoportune time. Personally on my 3rd motor in just 9 months. Next bike will not have a Brose that's for sure.
my belt fail in my furst 300 km
I choosed the fazua motor, cause even if they stop producing the motor or fazua goes bankrupt one day, i still can ride my focus as a normal mtb. And it is very light compared to other e-mtb's 🙂
Love my Heckler with e8000 motor 🤘🏼😎
Bafang makes motors up to 160nm not 120. And they are already in the emtb market. By far the #1 seller of emtb motors. No other company is close to how many they sell.
Gabriel S I hope they make their motors to fit on bosch, shimano ebikes!!!
I think just got to have the bracket in the right place.
keep in mind the numbers can paint a decieving picture.Also different software can make it feel like a whole nother animal. Keep those wheels turning and dig in to those motors deeper!
I bought a 2019 Trek Powerfly FS5 it replaces the 2014 Trek x-calibre hardtail. It was 2 years ago that I first rode a Trek Powerfly FS5 at a demo day.I was sold on it there and then so after much saving I now have my e-mtb. I have found it to be brilliant there has been many times I've exceeded the 32k limit without knowing so I can recommend the Bosch motor. I'm getting up to 100ks before recharging.
stay away from the older bosch ones if you buy used they have a hard cutoff
BROSE before hose!
...not sure what that means,
BUT IT RHYMES ‼️😃
I'm concern about the problems Brose had on their 2.1 motor specially on the Specialized Turbo Levo. I'm saying that because I'm about to get a bike and I'm not sure to go for the Turbo Levo Comp with the Brose motor or the Orbea Wild fs H20 with the Bosh Gen 4....which one do you recommend?..thank you
Excellent Steve. A great look at all the options.
I have a Canyon Spectral Carbon and am thinking of getting an ebike. My wife has a Luna 750W X-1 with the Bafang M600. I tested her bike over 30 miles last weekend. This weekend I tried a Trek 9.8 XT. The Bosch Gen4 with update really does feel anemic compared to the 750W Bafang. The Luna really does have 750W nominal. The 250W euro motor feels quite pathetic compared to the M600. The down side is that the M600 tuned by Luna is much more on/off with little in between. The emtb of the bosch feels natural, but the M600 has tons of power. Now I'm reconsidering the Levo or Trek 9.8 purchase and thinking the Luna M600 ultra 1kW might be better. The ultimate would be for Canyon or YT to switch to a better motor and away from the Shimano.
Listening to the presentation and somehow dreaming about using my mountain bike in Wales? Dylwn freuddwydio!
Why no mention of yamaha pw!
the pw has a newer version, the pwse or pwst which is mechanically equal but has a different controller for more top rpm and can bus
BBSHD, that is all.
most e bikes are now more expensive than my dirt bike which is a real motorcycle. The amount of money wasted by rich people wanting to lose weight is just insane.
No details on the Yamaha? That's kind of sad.
I wanted to upgrade my donor bike, 1997 Specialized Stumpjumper Pro, to a 250-500 watt mid drive. Are there other options then Bafang, for a DIY upgrade kit? I rode one of the very early Bosch motors at Sea Otter event in Northern California about 4-5 years ago. It had enough barely power (250 watt?) and the battery range was limited. It seems like everyone is selling direct to companies for use in their branded bikes. I wanted to keep the weight down and the price to make the build affordable and fun to ride. Any suggestions other than Bafang, for a DIY conversion kit, I have about $500-$1,000 to burn.
Definitely interested in the small Integrated motor and battery.
Very informative, thanks
I have just picked up a Trek Electric bicycle from Goodwill, wow my dream came true!, However, it did not come with Mid Drive motor, the owner took out the motor and donated it.
I know Trek uses Bosch mid drive motor, I can't seem to find which motor this bike came with,,,,,
Is it okay for me to buy any mid drive motor from Bosch? and just install? or do every electric bicycle have different mounting sockets dedicated to each different electric motor...?
Bosch has better warranty than all others on batteries. Each time you connect a charger on other brands they take a away a full charge cycle wether it’s fully charged or on for 2 minutes. Bosch only take away what you actually charged so if you charge 10% they take 10% of a charge cycle other brands take 100% even if you charge only 1%
And they are shortly increasing the gen 4 motor to 90nm from its current 75nm as the motor is a capable of 110nm but is software limited to 75nm
How is VALK? Doesn't seem as powerful on paper but comes included in their bikes.
Have you guys done a review of the Bikee Bike conversion kits? Love to hear your take on them.
Dyname 3.0 on my Rocky Mountain Instinct Powerplay !
I would like to see a bafang 750 watt motor on an ebike and a 700wh battery and a throttle option that can be removed for park and trail use
A quick-release throttle is a _brilliant_ idea. You should probably find someone to help engineer & patent that. Seriously. I want one. What's the quote? "Shut up & take my money."
The throttle is easy, just unplug the wire and use a cam lock like the quiver on a Killer instinct crossbow to mount it. The hard part is getting these bleeding vaginas to allow over 250w in a park
Of course it always depends on the purpose, on some days a Fazua would be enough, on others the TQ motor is the right one.
Difficult question...! 😀😀😀
For me mid drive motors suck 500w hub motor is the way to go and have driven all of them 500w hub motor is the best aventon 500w
I am more than happy with Brose S Mag , enough power and 750Wh battery
Which one is the strongest if you derestrict it?
Excellent as always... my limited experience is that all the motors are great. I prefer the original Brose over the latest Mag S in my new Levo as the old levo was more natural feeling and quieter, but the new motor is more efficient. Bosch CX 3 had an enjoyable character though technically worse, so again it’s a case of they’re all fine. I am curious about the new SL, I keep telling myself it’s not for me... but it could be a very enjoyable ride.
I have been test riding Ebikes for about to get the right one?
I am having more trouble finding the right side frame.
L or XL ? It all depends on the bike
So what is the best bike for long days in the saddle? & for smashing down the trail when I need to?
I have taken a lot of ebikes out & then the day came were I took the Whyte e150s out on a demo ride & I was hooked
XL e150rs with a 150mm dropper seatpost.
It fits & does everything I need it to do.
I am so glad I took my time looking for the right bike.
My first ebike was a Canondale Neo Hard tail with the Shimano motor and my new ebike is a Trek Powerfly 5 fs and have really liked the Shamano motor better, found it much smother and stronger but it’s hard to compare in one way as my Shimano was ton a hard tail and the Bousch motor is the n a full suspension so some people say the bousch motor has to work harder because of the full suspension, I would sure like to try a full suspension with the Shimano motor to really see the comparison.
I haven't bought mine yet, but a big concern of mine is how long I'm going to be able to get replacement parts/battery's for, I tend to keep bike for 7/8 years, and as technology pushes forward, I don't want to be left in the lurch with a bike with terrible battery life or something I can't fix!
Yamaha and Flyon (TQ) kick ass !
Tech. question, DT swiss upgrade to a 54 star ratchet on a 50 pound E mountain bike, can the 54 handle the torque?
I like the look of the turbo levo hard tail a lot and it fits within cycle to work scheme budget. I have a older cube 500sl with the bosch performance line cx will I be disapointed with the brose 1.2e 50nm and the 400wh battery ? Should I go for a cube 625 exc with bosch gen 4? I'm about 16 stone so should I be thinking torque?
Will the blevo app make the levo more lively?
Nice review. I am glad you mentioned Bafang. I live in the US and Bafang is a motor that is seen on many DIY bikes, however , the m600 is used on Frey, FLX, and Luna. I have recently ordered 2 luna X1 enduro, they are carbon, check them out. I agree Bafang will start to appear on European MTB, it's just a matter of time.
Focus using Shimano e8000!
Is Shimano e8000 any good
Not much info about Bafang
Lot to squeeze into one video! Was surprised to know of multitude of options in motors. For me quiet and smooth motor is as important as torque power and efficiency. What's special about yamahas eco plus, i often turn off the assist in my e bike and it becomes eco plus plus mode.
Could we have a single video comparing 2 or 3 motors at similar power range. That will do all the motors justice
I have yamaha pw 250. 2000 miles so far no problems, seems a bit more noisy at times than when new. Be interested to see how many miles I get out of it....
Mid Drive is way more expensive, requires much more maintenance, and is more complex to operate. Install can be very expensive because of the complexity. On the positive side, Mid drives can climb better, and provide a nice cruising speed for the long haul open road., and have a better center of gravity for better handling for those that race to win.
Hub motors are much less expensive, zero maintenance, and super simple to use and operate. DC brushless Hub motors only have 3 moving parts. Rotor and 2 bearings. That is all. Very reliable and can make a ton of speed and power depending on controller and battery. Install for a Hub motor is simple, especially for a front hub but make sure to use and install a torque arm for a front hub install.
Hub motors definitely have their place, but for mountain biking, which is what this channel is about, then the crank drive is the boss.
grabir01 true
Agreed. I'll be buying a hub motored e bike as well. But for mountain biking mid drives are the way to go.
You never talk about Giant bikes, you will talk for hours about specialized and how they tweak the brose motor to suit them, but giant never get a look in, they tweak the Yamaha motor and make it more powerful, why is that less noteworthy.
Do you see other videos that are reviewing Ferrari's and McLaren's mention Kia's latest offerings? No, no you don't. No one cares about that junk.
eclipsethesun wow!! Mr sheep, you did take the blue pill didn’t you! I will stick to my super reliable motor endorsed by Valentino Rossi and you stick to you “Ferrari” powered by what was a windscreen washer motor in a previous life.
It's called sponsorship. Did you see Mahle mentioned on this list, the actual company that designs and manufactures the motor for lightweight Specialized e-bikes? Instead we are given the marketing info that seems to claim it's Specialized's own motor. At the beginning Bosch gets the plug they have a huge support network not mentioned for the other brands but no mention that you'd need such support because of the poor reliability of many of their motors. As ever with videos like this enjoy them but understand they are not unbiased and take their comments with a pinch of salt. Look at the forums to find out how people are getting on with their purchases and if they have problems getting spares or reliability issues. Make an informed choice. This is effectively an advertisement skewed towards their sponsors.
What’s the cheapest mid drive kit not bafang but the better brands I can put on a Montaigne bike ?
I love my Pw-x from Haibike with 80 Nm 😁
As most mainstream Bikes seem to have Bosch or shimano, which do you prefer? Bosch (gen 4) seem a bit more powerful (625wh, 70nm) but seems to make a bit of noise, are the shimano smoother?
Can you upgrade motors? Say bosch gen 3, to gen 4?
Where is the comparison? Where is recommendation? Where is data? And stop advertising Specialized! We know what is out there, but it would be great to hear differences in different aspects like drag, power consumption, noise and reliability of the motors!
What is the best e mountain bike for distance...
What about the motor on the Jotagas ebikes ? 90 or even 120nm, and 850w battery ?
ELOM eBikes uses the MPF motors, like the one in the Greyp, since years.
You guys should check out the Frey bikes someday
Hi, What motor for the least snatchy Wheelies? Great Video.
lots of info about brands available, but I was hoping for the answer to the question posed in this video's title, and didn't get it.
Hi there,is purion is compatible in nyon?
Ive just ordered a Frey CC Considerably less than half the cost of a RM superdelite.
Hi very interesting article. I am 6"8 tall very keen on buying my first Emb money providing!!🤑😪 What you would you main points you would look for my first emb. What is a reasonable starting price point.?
what would be great is something akin to the JD power survey for eMTB motors. I was super excited to see the new specialized bike but then i read there specialized forums holy smokes a lot of upset people with soggy motors... but it lacks context is there a higher ownership/ then proportionally you'd see more people posting problems or does the brose have underlying flaws?
The guy you need on your show is the one that's on the (emtb) forums who repairs them. Seemed like he had a fairly pragmatic view and knew the common areas of concern offering some good buyer beware advice.
what about tongsheng motors?
Hi Steve my brothers bought a new levo and wanting to de restrict it straight out the box. I have been trying to advise him not too.he has a 4 year warranty i think it would be stupid to derestrict it and loose his warranty considering motors do fail and problems happen. Do you have any advice to support what I say thanks Callum
I'm running the Vitus with an E8000 and it's been brilliant. A year of abuse and it's still running flawlessly. I can't say the same for friend with the more common specialized bikes. The only mod I've done is to add some Moto foam to the cable entry point to stop too much grim getting in.
What you know about Ananda® ?
What is the story on the TQ motor, are they reliable, are they very loud?
Keep the end edit of 'bloopers' please
Bosch cx gen 4 Trek rail 😍
Just got a Rail 7 (red/gunmetal). Bike is insane!
What motor is in the giant stance e1 ?
Yamaha with 80nm
Harry Corkish The yamaha syncdrive sport.... the syncdrive pro will be on the Trance models
Yamaha pwx
, and its an excellent motor.
As I dont need the torque sensing, I prefer the BBSHD. Buy it from Lunacycle and upgrade the controller to the Ludicrous 3000w model. NONE of the others come close to that. I have had my 3k watt BBSHD for 2 years and have over 4k miles on it. 50MPH and 100+mile range for $1200 and put it on almost any bike frame you want. Plus the motor is still stamped as 750w so cops wont mess with you unless you ride like and a hole. Then you just deserve it.
Do some brands of e-bike engines have more problems than other ? ? I did buy a Merida e-bike. Engine by Shimano. The first day ,after 2,5 km. The engine was broken ( E010 & W013 Error ). I'm now waiting that my dealer fix the problem . . ( sorry for my bad English - Greetings from Belgium ).