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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ค. 2024
- As a continuation on the series we’ve been doing on ebike education, today we’re going to be talking about electric bike motors! We’re going to talk about the different terminology used and the common questions that come up. Here are the 10 things you should know about eBike motors. We hope you enjoy and let us know if there’s any other question you have that we may not have covered in this video.
Timecodes:
0:00 Introduction to electric bike motors
0:21 What is an electric bike motor and what does it do?
2:00 What are watts, amps, newton meters, etc?
7:40 What are the different types of electric motors?
8:00 What is a Direct drive eBike motor?
8:15 What is a Geared eBike motor?
8:40 What are the different Electric bike motor placement on bike?
13:50 What different types of power delivery are there?
14:00 How do throttle activated electric bikes work?
14:40 How do Pedal assist electric bikes work?
17:45 Can I ride my electric bike without power?
19:10 How many watts do I need?
20:45 How fast can electric bikes go?
#ebike #ebikes #electricbikes #electricbikemotors - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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I'd like to think of myself as knowledgeable about e-bikes now but still watch your informative videos. I have appreciated for years how you break things down simply and deliver it in a straight forward, detailed and organized fashion that anyone interested can understand. Thanks for your varied & amazing efforts in advancing e-biking (especially in NYC).
In my opinion you are like the absolute eBike guru right now. Can't believe you don't have a million subscribers. Wish you weren't so far away or I'd buy an eBike from you in a second.
Chris Just to make sure someone doesn't make a very expensive mistake. Not all e-bikes can work without power. I own the Riese and Muller Load 75 with an Electronic Rohloff E-14. YOU CAN;T RIDE THIS BIKE WITHOUT POWER. It needs the battery to change the gears. I found out the other day that you can ride it without the display switched on. I just doesn't record anything or give you any info. I'm not being an arse about anything, as I really love your videos. It was was you that educated me in my bike and you were the defining reason that I bought it. Pity I live in the UK as I would have bought it from you. Keep up the videos. Very educational and entertaining. I will be leaving on a round the coast of Great Britain ride for charity on mine as soon as the lock down is lifted. Regards....
I like hub motors. It's about intentionality....I can get just the right amount of energy to assist my pedaling in any context, instantly, without modulating control through the drive train. I think this better. For some reason the idea that throttle ebikes somehow limit one's ability to pedal as much as you like has entered the collective unconcious.
Since I have been listening to your channel you have been exclusively Bosch. I cannot remember you ever mentioning any other motor. So this is not a surprise.
Bosch makes good stuff. So it is a good brand to be exclusive with.
Well done again. There is a lot of misunderstandings around e-bikes, so we really need this series. Sooner or later we are going to have discussions "propeled" by DIY e-bikes in many places (as it happened in NYC), so a reliable and well acessible knowledged is crucial.
good video, thank you, helpful. There's a lot more to the story than numbers, the software that delivers the assist can make a big difference in feel and how much the bike assists you. This is especially true in the lower assist modes where motor gain is controlled by the software, not limited by peak motor torque. I seldom (if ever) use the highest assist level.
Great information, Chris. These kind of videos are incredibly informative. Thank you so much.
Excellent. Answers many questions. Thankyou.
Love ALL your videos. Always easy to assimilate the information you convey. Thanks 🙏☘🇮🇪🇬🇧
It would be nice to setup a shop with a low power wheel dyno, but mid drive would need multiple ratings for each gear. Everybody on earth calls their motor "powerful" no matter how little it has!
What that red bike at 12:08? Looks really nice and I would be interested in it. Mid drive is more balanced, and you get reduction gears even before the drivetrain. However, I've found that they do wear the chain and cassette faster. Hub motors put the weight in back and this affects nimbleness, but there is zero wear on the drivetrain when using only the motor. There is also a reliability issue, as any drivetrain failure with a mid drive takes out the ability to use the pedals and the motor. A drive train failure with a hub motor just means ghost pedaling or using the throttle to glide home. Each has pros and cons, and preference depends on your needs.
Pedal assist is my friend as a former marathon cyclist. However, a throttle has rescued me several times from inattentive or out of control drivers, and I like having both. Thanks for the video!
A wheel motor with throttle is handy if you have a problem with the bike, like a broken pedal, chain or shifter.
This is a fair point, but there are plenty of challenges with that as well.
A simple solution is just make sure you have a spare chain in your repair kit with you. It's easy for me to always have that in my backpack on long rides. Haven't needed it yet, but i have it with me if the chain ever breaks while riding.
Thumbs up on (1) looking at torque and (2) test ride. My ebike has a direct drive motor that is rated at 750 Watts, and puts out 40N-m of torque. Many of the geared, 250 Watt motors are producing 60-80 N-m of torque. Torque will get you up the hills!
power = torque * rpm
power will gett you up the hills, provided the gearing is correct
Once again very useful information and well presented. It is often really necessary to find out the basics. With my own e-bike, I’m waiting for the winter to recede so I can see what the 10 Nm of torque I got from the motor update affects driving pleasure. That’s really 13.33% more on torque and I hope it helps, especially when the cadence is slower. Many thanks and all the best to Chris and all the e-bikers around the world from Finnish Lapland!
How much Nm you got now on your motor total?
Thanks for the good information.
In part two mention how there are few designs that offer regenerative braking, and the ones that do return less than 5% (I think) of consumed battery power.
Great point
Very good and informativ video, liked it a lot, Thank you so much for sharing this. I am from Norway and I have an ebike or rather an emountainbike, Haibike Sduro Hardnine 8.0 with a Bosch CX motor, a really powerfull motor at 250W., just love this bike.
Always informative videos. I believe you mentioned in this video (and at least one other) that the throttle feature is on the decline for ebikes. Is there a particular study you could reference regarding your comments about the throttle feature being on the decline? The reason I ask is that some of the most popular brands I've seen all have twist or thumb throttles.
Love your video you are so smart and knowledgeable on ebikes
good clear story.
Good video
All good points!
Additional remind those motors aren't built for using in submarines. Keep water away from the bearings and connectors. Normal rainfall or dust shouldn't harm.
Good information 👍🏼
Let's go all out and combine 3 motors, front mid and rear! Let's create the ultimate powerbike
@@leojonkers3181 haha I'm well aware of how the systems work, i work in a electric bicycle store and do repairs aswell
I will only go for direct drive hub motors. Mid-drives have to replace the chain and cassette every 300km and the motors will break down after a couple of years. Geared hub motors will also just self-destruct/ wear out after a year or two.
This hasn’t been our experience, but maybe with mid-drives that don’t have any sort of shift detection. I see those eating up drivetrains. I’d recommend checking out the Bosch system, you might find that changes things a bit.
My Mid-Drive Motor is from 2010 (Panasonic System) - Chain changed after 6000km/8 Years and Motor still working and my weigth is 150KG (approx 300pounds) It must be a miracle!
The video was great. very informative. How about more on peak vs continuous power and differences in windings and how they affect speed and torque?
A useful video, though the thumbnail suggests that you were going to go through the innards of a motor or two. I'm looking for more info on the geared motors, and the durability of those that have plastic/nylon gears.
Good to teach your viewers how to derive watt-hour figures for battery capacity so that when shopping, they can compare battery sizes whether 24 volt, 36 volt, 48 volt or 52 volt. Obviously there's a direct correlation between watt-hours and the most common question asked of all eBikes: how far can one ride this on a single battery charge?
What about protection systems? Which, if any, have fuses or thermal cutoffs? I don’t recall whose motor it was, but was probably a “less” expensive one and they were pointing out that they have a thermal protection for the motor that will cut off power to the motor when it hits 120 deg F. I live in north Texas and in the summer it isn’t unusual to have 100+ temps. Plenty of other places get even hotter. Related then would be if these hot temps can impact the batteries?
batteries don’t like the heat period
how would you compare bafang to bosch?
Thanks
Am i correct to assume that using a enviolo with automatiq is probably the best way to make sure you don't overload the drive train. Since you can't be in the wrong gear at stay startup and demand too much from the motor+you. For me this was one of the reasons to go with a R&M Nevo GT automatic. Seems to me that belt+vario+autogear is best way to keep motor and powertrain in best band and safe band... Does this make sense ?
Do you have a video that just disassembles a hub motor with an explanation how it drives the axle etc.?
Thanx again for another great video with logical and significant considerations. I cannot afford to purchase an ebike, but I might be able to find an affordable kit and build one from the bike I have, so I appreciate additional insights you have added to what I thought was an adequate starting place in my mind. Your presentations evoke a sense of trust that rivals that same sense for Doctor Fauci. I am fairly well convinced that you are truly endeavoring to share honest, useful knowledge for the benefit of your viewers, as much as, or more than for yourself.
Can anybody explain the difference between torque and assist level? Bosch talk about say, 85nm torque, or 340% assist, but different torque powers seem able to provide the same amount of assist and vice versa. What does it mean in terms of riding experience?
If I understand what you're asking correctly... then I would say that it's kinda two sides of the same coin. Torque is simply rotational force...how hard the wheel is spinning. Your assist level basically tells the controller how much of that torque to apply to the drivetrain.... You dictate how much of the torque with where you set your power level. That being said... that may not be the case for each manufacturer and how they choose to apply that percentage - is it a percentage of the total torque that the motor is capable of... or is it a function of the effort applied to the drivetrain by the rider? That I can't answer...but I do hope this helps.
@@ttaylor6868 great, thanks.
The Controler limit the Power depending on your human input (The Sensors)
The motor (or better the System Motor,Batterie,Controller) has a maximum output of 85Nm (on a wide rpm range).
(Simplified) - The Sensors detects that you pedal with 10Nm (your human input) the controller set the current electrical output(aka support level) to:
ECO (60%) - 60% of your 10Nm = 6Nm => Your 10Nm + 6Nm motor = total torque of 16Nm
Tour (140%) - 140% of 10Nm = 14Nm => 24Nm in total
eMTb (special case with 140% to 340% support depending on current sensor readings)
Turbo (up to 340%) - 340% of 10Nm = 34Nm => 44Nm in total
Ok in all this cases you are even not close to the max.85Nm output of the motor.
Let's say you pedal with 50Nm (harder human input)
At Eco 60% of 50Nm is 30Nm => 50Human Nm + 30 Bosch Nm = 80 in total.
At Tour 140% of 50Nm is 70Nm => 120Nm in total
But
At Turbo 340% of 50Nm WOULD BE 170Nm - but the Motor can only deliver 85Nm - therefore no 340% support in this case only 85Nm (170%) instead => 135Nm in total
If you pedal with 40Nm 340% would be 136Nm - but is 85Nm
If you pedal with 30Nm 340% would be 102Nm - but is 85Nm
If you pedal with 25Nm 340% would be (and is) 85Nm
Over all the Level (ECO, Tour, Turbo and the variable eMTB) decided how much percent the controller will command the motor to support you (60% to 340%)
The 85Nm is the upper Limit of Support of the Motor - as long as you do not reach (with the Percentage of Support) this Value you get a linear support, if you reach the limit the percentage support will be lower and lower but you still get the maximum support the Motor can deliver.
@@DSP16569 good explanation, thanks.
Thanks for the video. I have a question that you did not address: Why do mid-drive motors often advertise twice the torque at the same rated power from the same company in a hub motor? Are they taking credit for the gears? Or do mid-drives actually have circuitry and/or gearing that doubles the torque?
Have you tried the Revonte One ebike motor from Finland 🇫🇮?
If so, what do think about its potential to be found on e-bikes?
Good information! Should I get an e-bike that can be charged off the bike; so that an extra battery be used to extend the range?
Yes
Is it possible to use bike as generator at home in winter?
I don't have a ebike yet, wth my bike i am able to ride between 20 and 30 km/h, i am 62 years old and i thinking about to convert my bike using a kit call Banfang BS09, but my idea is not to have a motor to ride for me, but to have a motor to assist me when I go up a hill or when i am riding again a strong wind. I am using my bike to go to work every day and also to do long ride the week end. My question is converting my bike is good idea, and is the kit a choose is good?
Yes it was a great video thank you for doing this my thing is a torque I was thinking about that tonight and my other thing is those bars have a motor that I can put on my mountain bike mid drive adapt I have a wtb if you can believe I still have one lol. Because I didn’t want to convert it to electric torque is very important to me I no longer ride off-road this would be so that I could use it for work my intention is to have a push lawnmower and blower and a Weedwhacker all battery operated and that’s my intention to have a side hustle
I ride in Las Vegas. Today is 115°. I know it’s bad to leave my battery in my 110° garage. So what about if I ride in 115° for few hrs. Is that also bad for my battery? I always bring my battery in house when not riding.
Great video, thanks for your insight! What range or time riding would the average mid-drive bike offer if riding on trails?
I get 30 miles with a fat tire if it’s paved 45 fat tire 55 on my commuter
Can you comment on longevity of the motor and battery? These things aren't cheap disposables I presume.
Most will last around 5 years if properly taken care of
@@PropelbikesDo you know what exactly goes bad and can they be rebuilt or replaced? I guess we'd better carefully look at the support & commitment of the manufacturers we buy these from!
This is where a rear hub motor shines- if it fails (typically very durable) it’s cheap and relatively easy to swap out a whole new rear wheel,quality mid drives are excellent,but if it fails $$$$ and try to find someone that knows how to do a repair - definitely inspect the price of a replacement battery for your specific model of choice/ eventually it will need replacement (could last years if properly maintained) so,yes battery price’s can be $400 or $1500!!! Beware
@@777noirkat Looks like the direct drive motors are maintenance free but as there no gears and the regulation in EU is capped for 250 Watts you won't find may models with them. The rear hub is not necessarily direct drive it could be also be similar to a mid drive I guess?!
What bike is in the footage at 11min55sek? Anyone knows? Thank you.
I read the logo on the frame as "Bulls", which is a pretty decent brand.
Very good, "simplified" overview of electric motors on a bicycle. There is way too much hype about high wattage motors and "fat" tires.
So a Bosch 250 watt motor is more powerful than my RadPower 750 watt motor?
The Bosch will probably last way longer
Thanks, really like your style and the amount of fundamental information you pack in to these videos. Happy Armistice Day as well, upcoming.
I'm one of those who "need" more torque and I'm a little frustrated because the offerings are very limited. As a heart patient I'm pretty limited in the pedaling or pushing I'm allowed to do but all the higher-quality bikes seem to have a moderate pedal assist rather than a class three drive-away mode to get me home uphill when I'm tired out. Would be good if you could interview some of the product development staff at say Gazelle to give us some insight on what they're thinking and when we'll get certain higher end models and features in Canada and the US. I'd be super interested to hear from some of the mid range quality manufacturers like Aventon re what their market strategy is going to be in coming years and relay they want to see from cities and state governments to thrive as well.
I never thought about it as throttle vs pedal assist. I always assumed most ebikes just came with a throttle for situations where you wanted to take a break and let the bike do its thing for a few minutes.
Thats more a USA thing really, most euro countries don't even allow a throttle. The taking a break is not much of a issue on most mid motors if you put them max support you only maybe add 40watts thats almost nothing and is like taking a break but just moving along as if you are almost going downhill. The added value of only peddle assist is that your peddles kind of control things all the time and is closest to normal cycling and feels very natural at all times including if you hardly need to push its like just having a nice tail wind.
Hello, I am interested in visiting your store and get your advise on selecting proper bike for me. Please let me know where you are located in California. I am in southern California. thx
I have a 2017 Big Bud Pro 4" fat tire ebike with two hub motors (AWD) 350 + 250 watts. I live in the Catskills where my challenge is always hills, especially on dirt roads. It is not always easy -- but plenty of exercise. Do you think a 250 watt Bosch would work better?
I'm no expert and can't speak for the Bosch but my understanding is that if your bikes lowest gear is low enough a mid-drive can get you anywhere your tires can get grip. May not be fast though.
I’m looking at lots of ebike websites including Trek, Specialized and none of them have torque information. How or where can I get this information?
if its a bosch midrive, its 85NM most probably. check the motor and google that. should come up immediately.
Don't know if it's in the comments or not but, quick question... how would you emp proof an e-bike? Or does it even need to be done? Like if you get one of those EMP Shield things, where would you connect it? Folks put them on cars but gas pumps run on motors too, so no gas pumps-- no gas. E bikes'll still be going but you'd need a good gun to keep it. Still... how do you emp proof an e-bike?
Just got hit with class 5 solar flares and nothing happened
I want a solid state battery bike?
Hey have you been successful in get a bike on the road.? What make did you get?
Can i ride my ebike in the rain?
Maybe I should just get a cargo bike front load and then I could pull a trailer with my equipment on the back
When I had throttle my mileage was ugh.😊
What e-bikes are out there that have mid-drive motors AND a throttle?
I know there are some, but none that I am familiar with enough to recommend.
2:33
There are some super cheap import ebikes with just horrible and dangerous cadence sensors that can trigger the motor while stopped if you simply roll forward an inch or two at the wrong time. This sent my wife into moving traffic.... And to the hospital
Do you convert bikes to e-bikes? What do you think about this route for getting into e-bikes?
The TORQUE ! ( not the WATTAGE )
ehm no, torque helps nothing without speed, clearly visible in the formula:
power = torque * rpm
Not impressed was draw in with a picture of a motor in exploded view.
Ended up,with a bloke droning on for ever , no strip down view at all.
This is a super long video could you shorten it too 8 minutes or less?
REALLY never ever buy not anything with plasket gears you will be REALLY sorry if you REALLY DO
All pretty much irrelevant like a tesla brochure. Wonders upon wonders, but an ebike shouldn't be thousands of dollars unless you are making money with it.
Thanks for info. Do you know that anyone can be forgiven and saved if repent and believe in Lord Jesus? It's good to know.
Good video