What's The Fastest E Bike Motor? | 7 Motors Head To Head
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มิ.ย. 2020
- What's the fastest e-bike motor for going up hills? In this video Steve puts 7 motors head to head and details them. This is a technical hill climb challenge, there are many factors, but it's just a fun experiment 👨🔬 to see the difference between the following EMTB motors: Bosch, Brose, Shimano, Yamaha, Specialized, TQ
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Another great video! But, I'd like to see a 20 mile route with all bikes timed and battery/ range info included. Spread over 1 bike per day to allow for rider fatigue. Just a thought. Look forward to the next one! Happy EMTB-ing! M 🤪
Excellent review Steve thanks for the footage my friend 💪💙😀👍🇬🇧
The results are in ::: Steve got knackered and fell off 🤣. Keep up the good work Steve I loved this video and really brightened my day!!
One idea comes up to me. Can it be, that the fitness of the rider decreases with every try? What effect does it have on the times?
Exactly my first thoughts. Rider fatigue is a major factor here. The average watts Steve outputs needs to be taken into account.
I’m biased towards the giant version of the Yamaha pwx motor. My giant trance hauls up the climbs the bottom end grunt and torque applied from the motor from just applying The weight of your leg without even spinning the cranks is an advantage compared to other motors I’ve tried
It actually shouldn't matter all that much as long as the rider is able to stay in the cadence range. The biggest difference would actually be in battery drain which wasn't really tested.
Steve's fitness level doesn’t make a difference. The pedal assist multiplies the input. If Steve spins harder the bike will input more assistance. When Steve gets tired he will not get as much assistance in climbing the hill.
@@justinthompson4380 bull shit it doesnt matter !
Does it say that he did this all in one day?
The test is ok from one point of view., Steve did it great, that is not an issue. But you can not test different generations of motors. For example, you tested 4 years old yamaha motor on old Hibike and than compare it with newest Bosch motor with extra hot upgrade. You should test Giant Yamaha 2nd generation 2020 motor - then this one would be much better and fair to compare.
A test of the 85 Nm Bosch upgrade? Fantastic! Thank you!
Watch the end, dude 😂
Levo still faster but difference to 75nm software seems huge.
Very nice test! I like your videos! Can you repeat the comparison with the latest bikes? Shimno EP8, new Bosch motor, etc. That would be great 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Great content, well done.
Thanks Andrew appreciate it!
Another bed time story, really worked for me 😂
Like the test, but the rocky mountain power play is missing
I bought a specialized turbo levo comp 2020
14days ago ;) am Loving it🤠👍. Such a awesome bike.
Same here mate about a week ago. Tested Shimano and Bosch motors too, but this Specialized with Brose motor was far away better in my opinion. Great bike!
Well after a test day in the mountains. The only bike I felt confident on to tackle a mountain bike route was the haibike flyon. After feeling so much power I reckoned I could take on a mild run. it turned out to be raised tree root run that needed a momentum power run to get over the roots, the geometry for allmtn is a winner for me ( it would be nice though for the bike to be lighter). A quick note about gearing, 10 tooth small ring makes high speed runs feel lumpy 11 tooth rings do not have that problem.
The bike is far too heavy and the range is far too short. The motor is impressive but the package is poor.
What do you do if you reach a stile and can’t lift the bike?
Cool video as always 😎
Great Video! thumbs up : ) 👍
A good balance between battery life and motor performance is the ideal. I vote for the Levo, The Silent beast!
Levo - love it 😎Thank you Brose and Specialized 👍
Brose motor reliability is garbage
Yamaha results are the most interesting here imo. Its a more powerful motor than some of the others but was slowest. Some of that could be due to bike differences, and gearing. But I bet some of it is due to the Yamaha being better at slow-mid range cadences, whilst the others are better at a high cadence, and he was unable to adjust his cadence to get the most out of the Yamaha.
Agreed. the yamaha climbs and performs best at low cadences and so you don’t work as hard on your cardio. The x2 lowest gears on my giant trance e are useless (stair climbs / steep inclines as possible)
Yes but thé 2nd generation 2020 cope better now with power delivery at higher cadence.... but they tested a 1st gen
Good to see the video, One must ask how could a haibike hardtail with a flyon motor have done as its lighter .
That was an amazing test and I feel exhausted just watching, the results clearly show that Steve is a high talk motor😁.
You forgot an important factor: Fatigue.... But Embn is becoming a marketing bureau for haibike these days
We know it, but who cares. It's funny though. I have 2 Giant 2020 eBikes that are highly ignored and underestimated here, but I don't mind ;-)
Err... A Specialized won...
Giant use Yamaha motors so the PX-W represent them here. Sad the PX-W2 motor wasn't on it.
Hi there, fatigue is mentioned in the video and many runs of each motor were done to get an average
@ Thanks Igor, they are just toys at end of the day right!
Great climbing video. I could just watch the climbing clips.
You nailed it as always the skill of the rider has the biggest impact . I would prefer less weight to more power for my type of riding going up .
Yes, totally Doug, and me too i'd trade 5kg for 5Nm!
e8000 cops a bad tech climb number because of rider errors, should of gone again and got a cleaner run.
Good test and exercise 😁
Very interesting even though I don’t ride anything close to that technical myself. Biggest takeaway for my own riding probably that the updated new gen Bosch CX having a bigger cadence range would be nice to have.
The problem you have is each time you ride Steve is more tired so the times are going to suffer because of that and without stating the obvious we all know EMBN is partial to SPECIALIZED but always entertaining love the Chanel
You are still forgetting the Bafang.
Please include, I love your show! I feel it’s a shame to overlook such an amazing motor. I have the m600 in the Voltbike Enduro which has the same torque as the Flyon TQ.
Well there's a good reason for that.
@@redtobertshateshandles and that is?
Think they sponsored by specialized & shimano so won't. ..
The bafang is illegal...
I absolutely love this test. Great job. My only disappointment is that you didn't include the new Yamaha PW-X2. Also to balance the view that the not-quite-right for this test SL motor be duly included for the purpose of broadening people's perspectives in order for them to make better-informed purchasing decisions, I believe you should have included a Bafang G510. With 160nm of torque, it would have given people a broader perspective on how torque and power delivery affect the climb, in balanced contrast to the SL motor. If we were to make the claim that more torque is better for climbing, would we be correct, or would we be just spinning our wheels? Will we be able to argue that the lighter weight of the Levo SL makes up for the lower torque rating under certain conditions or is that argument an uphill struggle that will leave us pooped at the end.
The Yamaha is relatively heavy, has relatively low torque (and even need to add a disclaimer to their already low "max torque" of 80nm at, most likely, zero rpm).
Even on paper it's not a contender.
Also: This is about EU/UK legal (and EMTB race legal) motors, which the Bafang G510 is not.
Next time guys, ride up the rock slab at Billys! We're dead keen to see if any of the motors combined with frame geo, can manage it! It's a sick track heading down, the fact that you're beasting up it is making Staunton + E Bikes so appealing (I hate the regular climb out!)
So the old Brose motor that's in the Levo still puts the others to shame. Such an underrated motor!
Would love to see a reliability comparison - Brose motor is renowned for failing.
You are not wrong, but the Levo is playing at an very different price point than the Haibike or a Cube with an CX. The updated CX with 85Nm after the update is offering great value and you have to pay a significantly higher price to get an clearly better bike. Best thing Bosch motors from the last year will be receiving the additional power as well.
@@contactluke80 Embn will never give honest reviews and stats. They are just paid shills. It's extremely dangerous to take anything they say seriously.
Luke Thomas Point me to something that shows Brose are renowned for failing? I own a Specialized eBike and am very well aware of the weaknesses and am active on many online forums. But there are little to no reports of failing motors.
Thanks for the effort Steve 😁
So why were the Haibikes with the powerful PW-X motors so slow? Was this due to the Haibikes' geometry not suiting the hill climbing?
I would have loved to see (hear) a fixed camera on the "Fireroad Run", in order to compare the motor-noises under full-load when driving by.
Maybe you could repeat this including the Sachs RS, a recent Bafang motor and the Revonte One drive unit (incl. automatic shifting) as soon as there's a test-bike available.
Love the Bosch Performance Line CX on my Whyte
Same here love the CX on my Cube Reaction Hybrid.
Same here on Cannondale habit! Looking forward to getting it updated👌
Have same on my Gazelle, gets great range over what its rated and is incredibly smooth.
Hi there how do ya get the new update on Bosch motor. New to evokes many thanks
Christian Marsh Not sure 🤔 I’ll research
can you make any videos including the Bafang G510 motor?
Nice Test 👍👍👍
“Be yourself and people will like you.” - Dear 💖💖💖 :) _Markus Kiener_
Cheers Markus!
That was my thought too. I ownn an 2020 giant with a pwx 2 motor... And i am really disappointed, that Bosch gots a test of the new generation and additional of the updated Version and Yamaha was tested with the old version only... May be u can add this to ur test and it would be a really good and fair test. Would be happy, if u answer to this comment. Greetings
love the bike, i will never ever ever can buy one in this life time but i must say great bike
Not be long till guys like me are going to be selling our bikes for newer 1s....if I sell my bike for a quarter of it's price...is that . haibike for 750ish. Few years.. im known to gift my friends my old bikes..I gave an old downhill bike away other week with 808s on.....check your karma...good things come etc etc
Same as mine. Thanks....y never know mate
Did Specialized supply an extra couple of Levos just in case!?
Hi Steve, any info regarding the upgrade on battery drain? Normally no mention of these issues means that it must be bad news? Also can the upgrade be reversed back to the 75NM if the drain on the battery is a significant factor, if you can flash the software for 85MN surely it can be reverse flashed? It would be one hell of a gamble to upgrade to all the latest power and other features, only to find your ride time dramatically reduced?
Just had my 3rd generation Bosch Performance Line CX motor serviced after 2500 miles and 39 charges and it has only lost 1% of its capacity. These motors are solid and the Bosch engineer said with regular maintenance why they can’t last for years.
Heya guys what are your thoughts of the Bafang G510?
This guy is an ABSOLUTE UNIT
The Levo is a massively capable machine. I know it isn't 'cool' to say that the biggest manufacturer also has a leading product but it is a surprisingly common phenomenon: Tesla, Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Specialized. These guys didn't get big because of marketing, they got big because of creating great products. I trust my Levo on anything.
Sorryishotyourdog love my turbo levo
Of course, you are totally right. The video i guess attempts to get across that it's more than just the motor
You need to put a Bafang ultra there beat any no problem
My bbshd would aswell probably
@@beatbox9985 yip ur right
The BBSH is more than 250w nominal. So it is illegal in most places. Why not just use a motorcycle if you want power?
@@videosforcatsanddogs214 motorcycles haha
@@videosforcatsanddogs214 I got a motor cycle and a Frey EX was only 4k looks like a normal bike go's up and down stairs easy great on the trails . Wouldn't waste my money on one of those little 250w jobs no power at all.
I am really surprised to see the Levo with the almost identical time as the updated Bosch. I rode them back to back at a shop this weekend and the Trek with the Bosch felt like it had a whole nother level of assist over the Levo with the Brose. If riding around the city I would want the boost mode most all the time on the Levo whereas on the Trek with the updated Bosch it actually felt a little dangerous. The Bosch also has that emtb that feels so controlable as it only gives you as much power as you call for with pressure on the pedals although the Brose is a smoother assist on all levels. I did also try them on a medium steep grass hill and again the Bosch felt way more powerful. Coming from a SL with the Fazua motor at 55 -60 nm and wanting more power I much preferred the Bosch so that is what I bought. However your riding seemed to show them both a equally great climbers. Really fun technical climb too thank you.
Hi. I'm thinking buying a Cyrusher XF800. If I'm correct it only have 7speed. 5000w motor. Wont be any struggle if riding uphill without using pedal assist??🤔
That’s one of my favourite downhill tracks - would not want to go up it!
Interesting. Would have been interesting to see if there was a bafang driven bike to test. I would assume the crank motors would have excelled. But I have a little trouble with method, doing all the rides in a single day cannot have been quite fair to the later bikes. Otherwise kinda confirmed suspicions. What you didn’t mention but we could hear is how quiet the Levo bikes were!
Missed the Luna X1 & Frey AM1000
I like the test, however the only way to accurately compare motors is to install all test models on the same chassis. You would have to bulid/modify a frame capable of running all motors. Secondly you would need to test all on same battery (fully charged), same rider, same trail, same trail conditions and same time of day (first run of day)
Or just build a jig that accurately tests the output of each motor in HP or some other repeatable method.
Hi, have you ever tested a Bafang mid motor? I guess it will be a good time to check this and compare it with more famous brand. 😁
They are illegal. In Europe 250w nominal is the max.
Hi, I'm referring to M400 and M500 in the 250w version...
Try just for curiosity.
Hahahahahaha got 1780watts on bbshd and over 200nm of torque catch me if you can
@@madmanwheelies6157 SurRon
You missed the the beast Luna x1 bafang m600 ludicrous with silent gear. I love this bike...
but not street legal...
@@currymasterrace7153 so?
Imagine if a Bafang mde that sound and big names where silent. Than it would be at the test. Bafang has the best motors and you can choose your own bike
I have a 15’ Haibike Xduro 10spd w/26” wheels with a Bosch, no Emtb mode and it seems to blow my YT Decoy away in just about every aspect. I have to constantly shift on gears and change power modes. On the Haibike I can leave it it one mode and occasionally shift a gear up or down. Is this normal for the Shimano? And I really can’t stand the overly steep STA emtb’s are using now. I understand it’s reasoning, but for an ebike Id rather not feel so cramped when going uphill
Disappointed you didn’t find a Bafang ultra motor version.
Hi Mike, yes me too, it's a great motor, would have been interesting
They hate Bafang. They hardly ever mention them.
I have a Frey AM1000 on order. 160Nm torque!
Problem with Bafang is, that you will hardly find any support at the trails in other regions, because no dealer has experience with this motor or spare parts for it. So it's not really an option when you plan to take your bike on tours apart from your locals trails.
They are illegal.
I blast up the bankings with 12kw geared low so theres enough torque to dig a rutt like a scrambler and kick me off before the bike taps.
Wich Levo battery? the 700 or 500W one?
Did Bosch ever tell you what the update does to Battery life?
Great Job/info, thanks a million!
Glad it was helpful John!
Where were you for this test?
Bosch Gen4 2021 85Nm at last will be a nice competition for Brose S Mag 90Nm
Hi mate ,I've been on the size chart but can see allmtn .What size is a large ,I'm 6ft 1in .Is it a 47cm .Great video, it's help me choose a haibike .
Comparing my Heckler e-8000 to my buddies first-gen Levo I feel the e8000 is faster on a clime. We both have the same size battery and run out of power within 20 meters of each other. The higher the cadence the better the e8000 is 84+ seem to be the best. We are both running 50 teeth.
few variables here. levo has 29 inch wheels
Steve dropped the bike on the climbs in this test , hurts the vague results.
A run on a MTB without motor would be also interesting . So you could see how much even the Levo SL supports the rider.
Heh)) you want presenter's death on camera? ;)
I would have liked to see a Bafang Ultra in the mix too. 160nm might have something to say about that hill climb.
@TJ Thunder lots of advertising money from the big bike companies, most channels don't want to piss off their money sources. Your bike sounds awesome! I'm building a bbshd bike right now too.
@@gabriels1163 yep if you suddenly started to say you liked the bafang and that it would piss over most off the shelf bikes. The big brands wouldn't want to sponsor you or have anything to do with you so I can see why the motors don't get the praise they deserve from channels like this one
@TJ Thunder I have BBSHD on Montague Paratrooper. It will go anywhere fast. I went up Pikes Peak, no problem.
The Sachs rs motor definitely needs a mention here . i have a cube stereo hybrid with a bosch gen 3 cx
motor that is tuned ( destricted ) and a nox xc with the Sachs rs motor 110 NM .
Having ridden both many many times on the same hill near my house , i can say without any doubt ,the sachs destroys the Bosch cx .
I ALWAYS ride the gen 3 cx in turbo on this hill at a high cadence moving at about 5 km .
when i ride the Sachs i ride it in the third assist level , there are four . the cadence for the sachs is about half that of bosch and the speed is easily doubled . i have tried the fourth assist level but it's unnecessary . i'm unsure what's the real potential of this motor is because on less steep hills it's very easy to hit the max cut off point of 25 kph .
But head to head in identical conditions it's no contest between the bosch and the Sachs .
The problem with independent testing is Nox bikes won't supply their bikes for testing as far as i know, but i could be wrong about that .
Thanks for the effort Steve 👍
Why were the Haibikes with the PW-X motor so slow? Is it because their geometry doesn't suit hill climbing?
Cheers Jack, no idea, geo all good, i think it's simply the cadence range is narrower
@@stevejones7956 Thanks for the reply Steve, do you mean it's because their power drops off at higher cadence?
@@Llamab0y99 Hi Jack no worries, well it's a combination of many things. You have to take into account shape of the terrain to i guess. Which will probably suit some motors better than others
Had both bikes the PW-X or the PW-X2 in this test?
PWX gets more power at a lower cadence than the other motors. I'm betting that he was using the same approximate cadence for all the bikes, which was just too high for the Yamahas.
Gonna have to do it again once the new Bosch software becomes available ;^)
Ahhh he did :)
Do you when the new gen 4 Bosch motor will start appearing in new models?
its already in them it's simply a software update.
@@b45her Thanks b45her...great news. G.
Bafang 750 Watt, Trek hardtail, 23Kg...no contest :)
What about Rimac?
Yep I hear ya,👍 BBSHD 52v on Specialized fat bike 160 mm these blokes don't know what there missing.
so, does the massive increse i weight of ebikes sort of melt away when they get going, because of the motor, or, do you still feel the bulk while manoeuvring them? i know the easy answer is to for a test ride, but, cannot currently walk so thats not an option, heh.
@@downhill64 cheers, I've not ridden properly for years and when I did, I was used to like 24lb bikes at the heaviest so seeing weights of 45 and 50lbs is kind of alarming, guess the only option is to go out and try one when I can.
I would love to hear about the Rocky Mountain 635 wh battery and motor on my 2019 Instinct PP. Please. Love your channel . A+
Why no Rocky Mountain?
reccon my bbshd would chomp all those!! why isnt this ever in the mix?
Its a chinese kit motor that does not come stock on any mountain bikes and its a cadence based PAS so i doubt you will ever see it tested on a MB channel. They could have found a nice FS Bafang Ultra powered bike, that would have been pretty similar to the BBSHD in power!
Cool watching you suffer Steve. The test...! Well.. happy trails
Cheers JD, yes exactly just happy trails, it doesnt really matter about the time
Steve embe is by far the very best out there when it comes to anything mountain bike /E-mountain bike.. A bit of a workout holy cow...gotta give youHammerhead status man for going hard.. Ass kink fun...
You should substract the time you're in ground with the shimano E8000. Not very accurate comparison, but anyway thanks by the effort.
It caused the issue and the resulting crashes , levo was way easier to climb with than the sam2
Which i rode up a hill or two , not in the video.
Wrong cadence on the Shimano caused that
The shimano sucks. Its so far behind the competition now only the legal limit keeps it relevant. Owned both with the brose
Interesting technical and performance analysis Steve, do you think clip-in pedals with cleated shoes would improve performance, overall? Your opinion and comments welcomed...
I have the Levo and right now i'm partying like when man united won the champion's league looool.
Love the Levo ... what a masterpiece.
Party ends when your Brose motor fails. I'm staying with Bosch, and the Specialized fanboi stuff gets old fast
What about the greyp 6.3 ???
Would have been there for sure!
There is a reason why he end the video with the haibike 🤫🤣♥️I got it and it's brilliant
☹️ 7 motors and 9! ads in between! So sad! But I love that my dicision to buy the Levo was a good one. Love to ride tracks as I did 30 years ago, bringing fun and joy back again 😀
You should have had a pedal based power meter so you could compare the ability for the rider to push power while going up the climb. This would show if they were putting more power out, which might mean a more functional climbing bike overall, but be little to do with the motor, it also might just show fatigue levels.
The reality is however if you are buying a e-mountain bike, its performance in the down hills is far more relevant than its ability to climb, that is what you are there for in the end, climbing is just energy saving and the speed you do it isn't really that relevant.
Where was the watt wagon crosstour?
Why no Bafang Ultra, that's the real competition.
how to compare all these Motors of different age on different bikes, with all this little diffenrences ;-)
price /performance would have been interesting
You should specify mid drive, as my Crystalyte UFO series hub will leave all these in its dust.
Ok..you might as well day my 250cc enduro bike will beat em all....
Up a steep climb? Hub motors don’t get to use the gears to help climb, at least that’s what I thought?
Simon Coupland yes true generally the controller with cut out on overheating mode if it’s really steep.
Good that
Cheers Boggy
Beside the motor/torque I think the bike's geometry has a bigger influence. E.g. the Canyon with the very short chain stay is known as not a great climber. And Steve had to push this one for a small section.
What about Bafang?? :P
Would blow them all away but not legal under our 15.5mph rules
@@petershanle9675 easily exceed that freewheeling
Bafang Ultra 160Nm can eat the competitors
@@petershanle9675 you can speed limit it to keep it legal. Will still have the torque at lower speed. Flawed test.
Include a Tangent ascent drive for good measure.
Yamaha syncdrive, fastest off the line and climbs better than any motor (tried most motors from bafang to boschs best motors) I’ve ridden. Doesn’t matter what hill you climb on the sync drive, it just wants to hit 32 km/hr always matching your output perfectly and seamlessly with that near 400% assistance.
Ebikes will never get tired but the rider will so surely Steve s performance will effect the times? 1st ride fast and last ride not so
TQ
For interest why not also the steps7000?
Not as "good" as the 8000 which was tested , cool controller and efficient though.
Worthy
Steve valiant effort mate but you can't blame the bike for dabbing. Were all these bikes on factory settings as the motor gearing differs on each. The Shimano standard setting is low on all three modes. It needs tweeking for a proper comparison. But that said always enjoy watching youre vids.
Ah nice one thankyou! I didn't dab on other runs on same motor! Tweaking motors is a whole new video for sure
What about tyres. We know they make a big impact!
Don't care which is fastest, I care which is strongest that can help me get back in the sport.
Yes. The old motorcycle enduro saying " the worst thing you can have is too much power and the best thing is a bloody good rider " also applies to Emtbs .We don't need more after all it is called pedal assist and 60 to 90Nm is enough supply the Magic of turning us into gleeful kids again. E=Mtb2
You forgot the Rocky Mountain Powerplay?
It would have ruled the roost no doubt!
Bafang 620 160Nm 1000w no contest ???
Shame you didn't test the newest Yamaha motor on a proper bike. The new giant reign is one of the best climbers out there!
C’mon where’s the Rocky? Adrienne Adrienne. How can you run a power test without the RM?
yep exactly
M1 Spitzing
Germany tecknology the Felton motor kom from there.
Sorry I means Flyon