What Makes Fast Food Drive-Thrus Bad for Cities: Investigating Heinous Land Uses, Episode 2
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this second episode this series on terrible land uses and everything that makes them bad for cities, your intrepid host makes a tour of fast food drive-thrus. We'll look at the history of this marvelous technological innovation dating from 1948, how the format has evolved to become more popular than ever during the COVID pandemic, look into our crystal ball to see what the future holds, and talk about what some cities are doing to combat the drive-thru's worst aspects.
Today's video focuses on the establishments that are driving the most traffic in 2022 -- at least in Las Vegas: Chick-Fil-A, In-N-Out Burger, Raising Cane's, and, yes, STILL McDonald's. We'll look at all the ways these places are using technology to maximize profits, taking advantage of mobile ordering and technology, and how they manage drive-thru operations to meet daily targets.
Most importantly, we'll break down all the deleterious aspects of drive-thrus: increased traffic conflicts, idling, bad land use, pedestrian unfriendliness, litter, and impacts on the American diet and overall public health.
----------
Patreon - a way to directly support continuing CityNerd output! Thanks to all who have signed up so far.
/ citynerd
----------
Twitter: @nerd4cities
Instagram: @nerd4cities
----------
Previous CityNerd Videos Referenced:
- The Stroad Ecosystem: • The Stroad: A Case Stu...
- When Stroads Collide: • Stroad vs. Stroad: Lan...
- Seattle's Aurora Avenue (Highway 99): A Stroad Case Study: • To Improve a STROAD: H...
- The 10 Most Enormous Parking Lots in the US: • Enormous Parking Lots ...
- Power Centers: • What Makes POWER CENTE...
----------
Resources:
- Monrovia Chick-Fil-A traffic study: files.ceqanet.opr.ca.gov/2694...
- Henry Grabar Slate article: slate.com/business/2022/09/fa...
- www.fastcompany.com/90546526/...
- www.wbrz.com/news/video-popey...
- www.brookings.edu/research/a-...
- www.brookings.edu/blog/up-fro...
- www2.minneapolismn.gov/busine...
- www.portland.gov/sites/defaul...
- www.wweek.com/news/2018/05/30...
----------
Images
- www.casino.org/news/changing-...
----------
Music:
CityNerd background: Caipirinha in Hawaii by Carmen María and Edu Espinal (TH-cam music library)
----------
Inquiries: nerd4cities@gmail.com - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
The "car as a third space" is very real. I'm in a medium size European city and it's super common especially for younger folks, think under 30 mostly, where private space is limited due to the them and their friends living with parents or family or multiple housemates. The car then becomes their private space. Drive throughs are rare here but it's common to see people park, walk to a take away, get food and drive somewhere else to eat as a solo or group activity
Here in NYC, you see people sitting in their cars on phone calls or just hanging out as they're probably in a multi-person apartment sharing situation and their car is their only "private" space.
This. It’s been that way for American teens for almost 60 years and everyone has memories of sitting in the high school parking lot after class. Even if you didn’t drive, you had a friend that did. It extends to young adults too, because the cheap rent is in the suburbs and the place to be is downtown. Sometimes I drive with no destination in mind, just exploring rural roads. I’m certain I’m not the only one to do this nor would I be in a minority. We call them Sunday drives for a reason.
In America people will go sit in their cars during their lunch break, and I never understood it. It's either that, or they find a corner in the break room to sit with their headphones in and block everyone else out.
@@SCIFIguy64 that's true I remember my American friends talking about driving into the city for the night or going to tailgate parties
Definitely, kinda sucks I hate driving but the car is the only place I'll find relief on my breaks at work, since I hate being around people all the time
Wish I could walk home, I drive home on my lunch but again, driving sucks. Only time its fun to drive is when you're on a road trip, or scenic driving somewhere when and where traffic isn't bad
I've never understood the appeal of drive thrus. It's basically volunteering to be in a traffic jam.
People have other places to go, or dont like being in crowds in a closed space.
And "traffic jam" is an exaggeration....Unless it is Chick-Fil-A 30 minutes before closing on a Saturday night!
In America people enjoy being fatasses that are too lazy to either get up and get the food themselves or get up and make the damn food themselves. I don't buy the "people have places to be" BS excuse either. There are thousands of non drive-thru food joints across the country that make food quick enough where at most you'd be waiting a minute or two in a line of people during lunch rush. Instead Americans would rather be lazy fatasses and sit in their climate controlled car while having minimal human interaction and without moving their bodies in anyway at all. There are no excuses. Americans are just fat and lazy.
@@zandercruz3487 it’s usually faster especially at Chick-fil-A to just go inside.
We need to all be going full on Amish. Instead companies cater to those of us too lazy to cook or pull our fat asses out of our cars. 😛
@@zandercruz3487 "don't like being in crowds in a closed space" sounds like peak suburban America
I registered for a COVID test at a cvs nearby. When it was the day of I found out that location was only letting you take the test from the drive through. I had just totalled my car so I walked to the CVS and stood in the drive thru. I waited like 15 minutes for the lady in front of me to swab. When I got to the window they wouldn't give me a test because I wasn't in a car. Why the heck not? So I ended up just not getting tested. There was nobody else in the drive thru other than the lady in front of me, so I was pretty upset about that.
reach out to CVS corporate.
I was informed by the local health that I was exposed and NEEDED to get tested and the testing centre was the inspection garage for the car insurance and you STAYED IN YOUR car and the attending nurse came to MY car and I was told to roll window a set amount down and I was behind the glass and she reached over the partly open window to administer the test using MY car as a sanitary shield and then MY problem to disinfect it once I tested positive (I did)
Unfortunately NZ took a lot of inspiration from US car culture. A few months ago, the closest covid testing place (govt run) to where I was living was a drive through. Thankfully they still accommodated me as a pedestrian but they had to take chairs from the building so it was clear that pedestrians and cyclists had not really been thought about (or at least disregarded if they did)
@@philip88154 unfortunately it's all too common that america's best export is their worst ideas
You should have done something about it. I'll bet they wouldn't have done anything if you had shot or stabbed the lady in the window. In the unlikely event you were arrested, you could claim self-defence. Show me a jury that would deny your right to defend yourself from covid against a corporate shill. I'll bet, the next time that somebody came through for a covid test without a car, they would have been a little more accommodating. This is war, you have to make them care, you have to make our problems their problems
This is slowly becoming my favourite source of dry humour. Keep it up please.
🤣🤣🤣🤣I agree.
I had to pause the video after he said "Pay your respects" at the In-N-Out museum. That had me in stitches.
Dry is an understatement.
him sipping the in n out cup loudly was just perfect
Thanks for mentioning Minneapolis. There's absolutely no need for drive-thru restaurants in a decent walkable neighborhood, and I don't miss them at all. I can think of a few banks and pharmacies with tiny drive-thrus near me, but I've never seen them more full than the walk-in areas. I hope more cites ban new drive-thrus.
Banning new drive thrus in the city makes about as much sense as their policing policies.
It's not just that fast food produces a lot of package waste...but also food waste. In order to serve food that fast, you have to pre-prepare it in large quantities. But a manager can't predict exact demand, so a lot of fast food gets thrown out. Much that is tossed isn't that bad...maybe just a bit dry or not warm enough. This could actually be used to feed the homeless and/or local pig farms.
My restaurant rarely throws food out. Maybe a couple of potatoes or fish patties because they've been sitting for hours
This isn’t nearly as bad as it used to be - wasted food is wasted money for restaurants in the sense that they’ve had to purchase that supply, so the vast majority of fast food restaurants have gotten increasingly efficient at only using as much as they need whenever possible because they don’t want to waste the money on throwing anything out. This is especially true for franchised restaurants (which is the majority of them) where the franchise owner has to bear the cost of expenses more directly.
I'm curious, if you were to divide the amount of waste by the number of customers would it be comparable to what people throw out of their own fridges?
Wendy's moves unsold burgers right off the grill and into the chili. So if you want extra meaty chili, go there right after the lunch or dinner rush when their grill is being cleared off for the slower hours.
@@MrTaxiRob that's not how it works. The meat gets grinded into smaller pieces then put in a plastic bag for tomorrow's chili. A chili usually lasts a day or a day and a half
You're saying what needs to be said. 10 years ago we didn't have an In-n-Out here and ChickFilA had locations in the mall mostly. Now they're proliferating and the lines are out of control. Starbucks is still the worst offender though in terms of traffic spillage into drive lanes on main streets.
As a totality, surely this is the sign of a sick society, on various levels.
Thanks for your work and keep this kind of stuff coming!
I can't understand the Starbucks drive-thru thing. It's super easy to make coffee at home or get it at whatever your destination is. Of course I weaned myself off espresso drinks quite awhile ago, but still
I always wonder why the people in those huge lines choose to waste their lunch break getting fast food- have they never heard of making a PB&J sandwich?
@@CityNerd I don't think they're going to Starbucks for coffee. They're going for a diabetic coma's worth of Torani syrup thinned with coffee:/
In the Phoenix area the worst offenders of drive-through traffic spilling into and obstructing streets are Cane's and Dutch Bros.
@@mrslvw Correction Starbucks sells less coffee than milk. So thinned with milk is more correct. Also Starbucks by default uses the same amount of coffee/expresso for drinks regardless of size. This leaves ice and/or milk fill the rest of the volume by default for most drink options.
20 years ago, an Adult video store moved into a former bank with a drive thru near my house. We all were hoping for the store would utilize this. They didn’t. RIP. 😢
One of the things I've been hoping to invent one day is a drive-thru building-sized vending machine for embarrassing stuff. A combination of a pharmacy and a pornography store where no human ever sees or hears what you bought. So you can be free to buy anything, no matter how embarrassing it is or how judged you think you'll feel.
To comply with regulations forbidding the sale to minors - make a website and an app where you sign up and verify your ID to confirm you're over 18
Can you imagine what a bonkers business Adult Redbox woulda been
At one point Michigan had a drive-in adult movie theater. It hasn't existed in years but it's still legendary. The state police got it shut down as a hazard because drivers on the highway were distracted by it.
@@MrBirdnose No way? I take it wasn't in Detroit, but was it near it or was it like in Saginaw?
@@Alex_564 I didn't remember but a little research seems to show it was the Sceen drive-in in Durand, near I-69 (can't make this stuff up!)
The delivery driver model isn't nearly as bad, as one car can pick up multiple orders and use technology to find the most efficient route among each of them. The companies are also incentivized to deliver them as efficiently as possible to save money. Obviously walking or cycling is still better.
And they charge a fee on top of higher menu prices, which the restaurant only gets their menu price that a dine in customer might pay, and some delivery companies pay even less
Maybe a city could subsidize delivery services based on traffic reduction as a way to push out drive-thrus with competition. If the delivery costs get low enough to be about the same as driving, people will go with the extra convenience most of the time.
as a CZsWorld fan it makes me giddy to see you watching these urban planning deep dives
That only works if the delivery driver is actually delivering multiple meals, but given the drive times involved and the time degradation of fast food, that seems unlikely.
Meanwhile, a huge number of drive through stops are part of trip chains. It's not necessarily a drive from home or work and back, but a tiny detour on a trip to work or home that is already going to happen anyway.
Needless to say, I think CityNerd is right to think there's a lot of uncertainty.
@@Stache987 Or, hey, maybe the restaurant can have its own delivery service, like pizza has had for decades, and just factor that into their menu price or add on a simple fixed delivery charge. 3rd party delivery services are the health-insurance or car dealership cognate for restauranting: adding cost and misery only for their own benefit.
So I have actually hated drive throughs since I got my drivers license; way before I was into "urbanism". It never made sense to me because my friends and I would order and when we get our food everyone want's to eat right away. I can't eat while I am driving so we end up parking in a parking lot somewhere to eat in a cramped car. so in the long run we might as well have just gone inside in the first place it's not like it was saving any time or anything.
Yup. Plus due to my upbringing, I didn't eat the food in the car.
@@birdiewolf3497 did your family tell you anything about ruining the car seats or the new car smell going away? I know mine did and my brother took after them too, getting upset with my smelly bag of in n out.
Don't hate an option you didn't have to choose but did just cause it doesn't fit your way of doing things, doesn't mean no one should have that choice, just don't use them if you don't want.
I think the drive thru make sense if you're buying a drink or maybe a small item like a simple cheeseburger. In these cases you usually can drive while eating, which is what I believe the drive thru concept is supposed to be used for anyways. I usually drive thru only when I buy items like the above.
@@andrepoiy1199 eating & drinking are serious distractions while driving, so should not be encouraged. There is no advantage to the customer of a drive through vs getting take out and picking it up at a counter like regular customers. Drive-throughs exist to benefit the fast-food restaurant by allowing them to externalize clean up costs, bathroom costs, garbage disposal costs and space costs.
I come from a very small town, and I remember when we got a McDonalds the first thing I noticed was how much more litter there was along the streets.
Tim hortons came to my small town Canadian town and the garbage is insane.
@@lookforward2life as a Canadian I agree, we will end up with the country completely covered with Tim horton cups
@@garyholt8315 And it's owned by a Brazilian megacorp!
There was a town councilor I saw on local TV news who changed his local zoning laws to allow McDonald's--even though his voters told him they were against it. He said, "sometimes you have to show people what they need and McDonald's is an excellent corporation." I actually met him at a party and he spouted the same crap. He was voted out next election.
Lovely American culture right? Aren't Americans so kind?
One thing to note that I've seen pop up EVERYWHERE at drive thrus.... the lanes block your car in. It used to be that if you pulled into a drive thru, you could leave at any point. The new thing now is to place permanent curbs along the drive thru.... effectively keeping you captive until you reach the end. It's a sneaky way they force you to buy the food
super sneaky!
As a delivery driver, I approve this message.
Thanks, Dude. I was stunned back in 1989 in Charleston, W.Va., when I was on foot and the only place to buy food was a drive-thru (Popeye's Fried Chicken, as I recall). I walked up to the drive-thru and they refused to serve me because I was not in a car! Could that possibly be a thing? It makes me furious just thinking about it now, decades later. Jeez!
It's a thing everywhere! I assume it's a risk/insurance parameter of some kind, it's the only way it makes sense. But I dunno.
@@CityNerd sort of proves that they are all aware of how dangerous drive-throughs are for everyone outside a car. And yet we still build them.
There used to be a Popeye's in Charleston? I live about an hour away from there in Beckley and currently my closest Popeye's is in Wytheville, VA. Either way, there should be a better way to serve people who aren't in cars when dining rooms are closed.
@@weatheronthe8s895 I doubt it was a Popeye's. The franchise didn't expand that far north until the 2000s. And according to an article I found (which gets removed when I try to link it), West Virginia's first Popeye's location opened in 2016.
@@TravJam317 yeah. I didn't think this state ever got a Popeye's until recently. I sorta wish we would get one here in Beckley.
I realized a few months ago that the only reasons I go to fast food restaurants is because I either "don't have time to cook" or "don't have energy to cook". Upon timing myself, I realized it takes me longer to buy something from the chikfila a half mile away than just staying home and making my own food. (significantly cheaper too). Even if the food tastes good, it's not worth it in so many ways.
I'm a bit surprised you missed San Luis Obispo, they've had a ban on drive throughs since the 1980's (I believe). Growing up there, and being a college town that was mostly walkable, it never seemed to impact business .At the time I was in school, circa 2007, they had one of the busiest Taco Bells in the nation.
If there was a chance for SLO to be in one of City Nerd’s videos this would be the one.
3-5 minutes time to process? I wish that was allowed at my first job (KFC). We were given two minutes from the time the car tripped the sensor until the car left the window. The managers made a huge deal about it. Didn't matter if the customer took almost the full two minutes just to say their order
Yeah 5 minutes is the high end (CFA, a lot of times), and I probably overstated the low end. Two minutes, though? I dunno, KFC has been on the downslide for awhile
Decades ago when I. like 15% of Americans, worked at McDonald's as my first job, the timer for the drive thru started when the car reached the window. The time they took to order and drive from the speakerbox to the window was your chance to get a head start, because once they got to the window they were supposed to drive away within 30 seconds.
Which is why they would ask you to park and bring your order to you if you ordered anything they didn't have ready.
Also, I believe that there was nothing on the menu that would take more than 2.5 minutes to make from the moment someone said to make one until it was packaged and ready to hand to a customer. And this was before they started using microwaves.
There was an insane amount of pressure working in that kitchen.
I spend a lot of time on the road for work. One thing I learned early on is to never enter a drive-thru when there's a 7-Eleven nearby.
The food is cheaper, marginally healthier, and the lines are non-existent.
I've found so much nasty gristle in 7-11 hotdogs. I just can't eat there anymore.
@@MrBirdnose the tuna sandwiches are okay. Or at least no worse than a McDonald's filet o fish. You can never go wrong with honey roasted peanuts.
7-elevens smell disgusting. Them and SubWay, I don't know how they'd manage to even deliberately create an ambient odor so unappetizing.
I live in a US city that has very little of this (Seattle) so it's not a part of my daily life, but when I venture out on the road I like parking and going into the dining room. Recently I wandered into a McDonald's and I swear all the staff looked at me like I was crazy for coming in... like, they didn't know what to do and how to serve me as they were all set up for drive through only. A manager came out and was able to fulfill my order and I went out to the ditch behind the restaurant and ate my burger next to an abandoned shopping cart.
I have done the same thing, sitting in a snowbank in Canada, was not allowed inside cuz I wasn't vaxxed. not fun.
The underrated thing about chains are the quality control for sanitation. My ex worked for the health department and would complain about how gross a lot of independently owned restaurants were in the kitchen.
So glad litter was mentioned in this video. It really bothers me (+ many others) and I think it should be discussed more amongst the urbanist community. Our cities should look their best!
Then get out there and pick some litter up! Make the world how you want it to be, don't force others to fulfill your personal ideals.
@@kevinhank17I applied for a cleaning job today. So keep littering I need work.
@@bluefungi I don't litter but I'll let all my friends know you asked.
Some parts of America, especially southern states where liquor laws were historically looser, even have drive-through liquor stores, which just seems like a terrible idea. It was a shocker to me as a Californian.
I didn't even wanna address that, it's so irresponsible
They're all over Arizona. And if memory serves, California used to have them all over too.
Dril tweet moment
to be honest, most people going to a liquor store got there in a car, so theyll be transporting it in a car anyways. The drive thru element doesnt really make it any more dangerous...
@@dannydude2121 100% that part
The Chick-FIl-A near me recently opened back up after renovating their drive-thru. They renovated it because the line would get so bad that it would block the street. They tried to reduce congestion by expanding the drive-thru, but as soon as it reopened it immediately became just as bad as before. Induced demand is a concept they can't seem to understand.
induced demand is $$$ in there pocket so they DO UNDERSTAND IT and are "driving" it
same thing literally just happened in my town, except even more extreme. they DEMOLISHED the original restaurant that had been there for like 20 years, and took over the plot of the failed burger king next door. they demolished that too and built a new restaurant with a larger drive thru. they are turning the plot where the old restaurant was into a parking lot. but right now it’s even worse than before and the line blocks up the road. im gonna vow to never go to a drive thru again after seeing this vide
Like adding lanes to a road to reduce congestion which makes it only worse.
So people go through a drive-thru to just park up in the carpark and eat there? That sounds crazy. Here in the UK, there are drive-thrus but usually you'd expect people drive home or are on the way to the office with their morning coffee, not this. Pretty sure most people in the UK, if they were planning to eat at the location would just get out of their cars and go into the restaurant at that point. Definitely drive-thrus should be forced to give service via the restaurant front end, drive-thru only sounds absolutely abysmal. I can only see distance being the issue people would eat in car park... not really a big issue in the UK I guess since the drive-thru would be in a reasonable driving distance so food would still be hot by time of getting home.
I would argue a lot of drive through customers in the US don't park and instead eat while they're driving. If they are eating fast food, they are more sensitive to time and cost constraints and are more likely to have to rush on to work or their next obligation. Eating and driving kills two birds with one fat, greasy stone.
Sonic is more specifically designed for this scenario, whereas other drive-thrus process carry-out orders that go wherever the customer intends to eat the food (usually not in the restaurant parking lot).
@@ericmeekey7886 came in to mention Sonic having the business model of being a "park in" as opposed to a drive-thru.
Sit in any traffic jam in the US and you'll see people eating fast food as they drive.
Nope there are plenty of Drive-thru's here where people sit, park and make a load of mess here too. I don't think it's as bad as the US because we just don't have the space. I've never really understood it myself, I really hate eating in the car and I've only ever used them in the rare situation where there literally is nothing else I can eat.
I'm just glad I moved to a town where all the fast food places are in the town centre which is walkable or cycleable, although there are plenty of places to choose from that aren't massive fast food chains anyway.
The town a few miles over has a McDonalds drive through which is on a roundabout of a major A road. It regularly has one lane being completely blocked by people queueing for it. Said town also has a nice walkable town centre with lots of nice places to eat.
I'm a stormwater nerd, so I get excited when people mention things like runoff and impervious surfaces. Wondering if you'd ever make a video about stormwater management. I know Portland has done some cool projects with rain gardens and such. Top 10 green infrastructure projects in urban areas?
Las Vegas stormwater run off worked into a fine art. As the valley is high in the west and drains to the east. Most of the east-west roads are designed to carry storm water both on the surface in the gutters and in the storm drain system which is quite extensive throughout the valley. At one time storm flooding was a major problem. Now, not so much so in the areas with flood channels and retention basins. The desert here, rain water in small amounts can flood quickly if not collected correctly.
Drive-through banks actually pre-date drive through restaurants. I learned this when I studied abroad in the US. Naturally I exclaimed "drive through banking! That's ridiculous.". The person I was with then explained that drive through banking technically started first because restaurants tried drive-in waiter service first.
car-hops and drive in diners are a 50 product and imagine drive up tellers are OLDER I believe the 30-40s
Hey, no idea if you'll see this:
Have you ever noticed that in cities like Phoenix, AZ or with similar levels of modern car dependency, every intersection feels the same? I lived in AZ for a few years and almost every intersection in Phoenix had 1-2 gas stations on corners, a single story commercial center, and some sort of fast food or market. You drive and it's like they just change the brand or layout slightly.
I've noticed that too. I live near LA in the suburbs and I can't tell some of these cities apart. Fullerton looks like Northridge looks like Ontario. Not even mentioning the cut and paste street corners, especially the ones just off the freeway.
@@jequirity1 cut N paste shopping plazas with cookie cutter chain stores to "fill" in the void between intersections
A lot of western cities including Las Vegas are like that. There was once a time when there was a gas station on every corner, then banks on every corner and now just Starbucks and other junk food outlets.
Interestingly I find that parking the car, walking in and ordering is faster a lot of times than waiting in the drive thru queue. But that feels like a past life at this point. Here in NYC I can just walk to a restaurant instead.
If they lined these places along the street with no set back, they could easily create room in the back for a hidden back alleyway/substreet where they could host the same drive thru service without having to have these absurd number of curve-cuts and ghastly examples where the drive-tru even wraps in front of the place
A lot of car dependent places where you'll find lots of drive thrus are so disconnected by a sea of parking that it's difficult to even say which part is the front and which is the back.
One massive difference I notice between Australia and the US actually is exactly this. Our shops here in Australia nearly always have their shopfront facing a pedestrian friendly street, and in my city the footpath/sidewalk usually even goes in between the shopfront and the shop/cafe/restaurant's outdoor seating or display. It makes for quite a lively vibe walking in between a shop and its customers. But here's the thing, many of these places do actually have parking too (albeit much smaller than in the US), but it's usually at the rear, accessible via a sidestreet or laneway. It's almost never at the front, it's hidden away as it is seen as ugly and undesirable.
This even applies to major supermarkets, where they will have entrances directly facing the main street they are on; but then also a rear entrance facing a car park that's hidden away in a backstreet.
This aerial shot of a shopping strip, complete with supermarket, highlights exactly what I mean (and it has more parking than average too):
www.google.com/maps/@-37.9181343,145.0394596,322m/data=!3m1!1e3
All of the past benefits of buying fast food are lost in my opinion. I use to love getting a quick tasty burger. Never been picky. But now i cant stomach any of the crap they sell. And the price has only gone up.
Have to agree, the prices have gone up so much that often times it's no cheaper to buy fast food than it is to pick something up at an inexpensive locally owned restaurant. Combine that with the wait times and likelihood of mistakes at a fast food place, and it really doesn't make sense unless you're on a roadtrip or something.
Way up! As many employees as I see in a restaurant, and they don't open the dining room, it doesn't justify the price increases saying it's labor and food cost, it's owner greed.. they move enough product to support the business as it were before. Personally I might go for fast food because I'm shopping nearly a hour from home, and choosing a value menu or on sale special item, my stomach has something to tie me over until I'm home.. yes I believe in shopping with a empty stomach just makes you fill the cart. People in parts of Europe and some Asian countries have under counter refrigerators and shop more frequently.. if it weren't for the fact my local stores are 25+ miles away, I'd rather shop that way, besides food in the freezer gets forgotten, or not what you want today, and gets freezer burned and gets tossed, I have a strong disdain for wasting food, it's unaffordable on my income, and things like bananas bring fruitflies and go bad fast, and you spend 20% just for a peel you'll just throw away..
10 years ago, I used to be able to do a 2 AM 3 taco order for under $2.75 with tax at a national chains drive thru, now with small towns who don't have multiple stores close by, they seem to have jacked the price to triple, and it's not labor.. it's "pretty location"
In Placentia, sort of the next town over from where I grew up, they had a law against drive-thru fast food joints, so they had maybe the only, certainly one of the only In-and-Out Burgers without a drive-thru window. Then McDonalds showed up and threw a lot of money around, getting the law changed. Now there is a drive-thru McDonalds directly across the street from the drive-thru-less In-And-Out. Needless to say, In-and-Out was not happy.
Talking about impervious surfaces, I'd love to see a video on the effect of car dependency on hydrology of urban creeks!
I recently went to Jeddah and drive thrus are *everywhere* with the ATMs being at a height impossible to reach unless you're in a massive pickup truck.
There was also a case in the UK where someone on a horse was refused service at a drive thru. What are the running costs of a horse compared to a car, I wonder
I just got refused service on a bike in a McDonald's drive trough
Probably my first "urbanist" insight was when I was a kid, even then thinking that drive troughs were a bit odd. My main interaction with one was a McDonald's (because of course) on the end of the highstreet in Thrornleybank, a little village esque suburban area of Glasgow, Scotland. Its a small area, walkable but car infested becuase this is the UK, the McDonald's is wedged at the end of the main street between it and a school. It annoys me to no end how much McDonald's adverts focus on people in cars when most are placed in places like these. My number 1 "what would you do first day in power" policy has always been overnight ban on drive throughs. Complete ban. Figgure out what to do with the space just don't turn it into parking
I read about a drive-thru funeral home, with a huge window you could drive past and view the body without ever leaving your car.
sounds like a cult
Portland is actually ahead of the Netherlands in bike-friendliness at drive-thrus. As a teenager we'd regularly try to get something from the McDrive, but were almost always refused
If we are short staffed, there isn't even a question of whether to close the drivethru or the lobby. The lobby will always be the one temporarily closed. People will walk up to the drivethru window, but our system isn't set up for that. We'll take the order, but it will inevitably reflect poorly on our statistics.
Actually, as an American who loves French fries, I think I am qualified to comment on the worth of fast food drive thru. And basically, unless you sit down and immediately eat most fast food, it isn't worth eating. Why yes, I rarely use drive-thru or delivery of fast food. And the more you run the numbers on most fast food compared to homemade food, the only advantage to fast food is time. And even there, if you eat during high volume times, even time is not saved.
Few people understand that quality fries are only good for like 5-8 minutes. Thank you for saying what needed to be said
The amount of times I've had to cross a busy drive through to get to the entrance of a fast food restaurant is too many! Once my friend even had to do it with a stroller.
try Tim Horton/Wendy's combo restraints in Canada and they have 2 drive throughs the totally encircle the building - there is NO way to NOT walk across a drive through driveway to get to the building and often the cars are cued infront of the entrance doors to the dining room!!!
Yeah word to the wise. If you're ever going for fast food and you see a long line for the drive thru don't bank on it being faster to go inside yourself. Most places the workers will straight up ignore people at the front counter until the drive-thru dies down. The only exception to this that comes to mind is Chick-fil-A but really they're the exception to every fast food rule.
The apps also seem to be prioritized, so I usually order ahead anywhere that supports it. This seems to get you in the same high-priority line.
Interestingly, In-N-Out also seems to give equal or even greater priority to people in the restaurant.
@@Eric__J Macca's using there "My McDonalds" AP puts you to the HEAD of the line in front of the drive through IF done inside the restaurant OR use the automated order "ipads" near the door cues the same as using the AP
15:30 Yep. The volume of people in my town to eat has increased by a lot since local businesses outcompeted chains. I think Prezzo is the only chain now.
People learnt to try new foods from different cultures, and yes it worked.
That's why new foreign cafés/restaurants keep popping up here.
When I lived in Jersey City, as walkable as it was and while the vast majority of chains there weren't drive-thrus, some still were. Like the city's White Castle. Some I can make exceptions too like in the middle of a mall parking lot by NJ Route 440 like a Jollibee or by the entrance to the Holland Tunnel like a Burger King and a McDonald's. But the problem with White Castle is that it's neither of those. It's smack bang in the middle of mixed-use development in the busy Journal Square (which is a hub for tons of buses and the PATH train). Has its own dedicated tight parking lot and drive-thru. While I understand people like taking their "murder burgers" home, but they're better when they're just made.
Meanwhile a Burger King on the other side of the city is in a shopping district within a residential neighborhood (The Heights) has their drive-thru in a parking lot that the city built big enough for drivers to park their cars and shop Central Ave. The drive-thru was placed in a way it wouldn't be bothersome for the locals. There's also a McDonald's on Central Ave, and that one doesn't even have a drive-thru!
A drive thru in Journal Square is a crime against humanity
Glad you touched base on this topic. This is near and dear to me since I design the parking lots for fast food establishments. Unfortunately, as a civil engineer, we are unable to change anything about the nature of these developments. We are confined to antiquated city parking minimums, poor setbacks, and the fast food client's demands to meet. This leads to the same, boring, car dependent designs. Every fast food project is copy/pasted to the next (only changing based on city codes) It breaks my heart knowing all of this.... While contributing to poor city development
In Minneapolis there is a Burger King that wants to reopen a location on Nicollet Ave. The city initially told them they can't have a drive-thru, but BK reminded that the city that the building was constructed before the ban took place. The city honored BK, but the location still hasn't reopened yet and by the looks of the building, it may not.
Over in St. Paul, Starbucks opened a location at Snelling & Marshall Ave. Traffic got so bad, that it was nickname Snarshall Starbucks. They city went after Starbucks saying they need a traffic cop to help our or lose their permit for a drive-thru. After a while the Starbucks closed their drive-thru and they converted it an outdoor patio.
Maid-Rite Sandwich Shop in Springfield, IL introduced America to drive-thru dinning in 1921.
I come for the urban planning topics. I stay for the dry, sardonic wit. 10 out of 10. Would drive through again.
I remember one time cycling to a drive-thru because all the other places were closed at night. There was a line of 15 cars wrapping around the building and I waited in that line, for at least 40-45 minutes for it to get to my order. Some people straight up took 5-10 minutes on their order, including people who had already been waiting that amount of time from *other* people ordering ahead of them! I got my order done in less than a minute.
This was at 1-2AM.
I live in a walkable neighborhood and walked to my local fast food joint one night after a few drinks. They said the dining room was closed. That I needed to go home and drive back (tipsy) in my car.
The slurp-cut at 10:36 is majestic
I work at fast food in Canada we got a drive thru for our A&W and we park cars when we can’t give the order quick enough or if there’s a wait, but man when I went to Southern California it’s so bad. I waited at a KFC drive thru line for almost 1 hour and it was not worth the wait. Though I prefer having a food court or one of those downtown fast food or any restaurant that you walk to than drive through. Surprisingly enough my A&W is beside a gas station but there are people who bike or walk to it, but in California it’s strictly driving only. 😊
I live in Portland and never knew that. Thanks...now I have the sudden urge to try out the closest Taco Bell at 1:00 am on my bike.
OK, since you read and are doing this series, I have one for you. Small towns that were ruined by a stroad/car culture perhaps even became poor and how (if) any made a come back or how they could. Lessons for small town America. Towns not connected to a major city with
The only Drive-thru that exists in my country is the McDrive, just because it tries to sell an "American Experience".
Also, I think it says a lot that in the video, the parking spaces are blocked to allow for a longer queue for the drive-thru.
Drive-thru banks are weird, but in my first months in the US I was stunned to discover such thing as drive-thru dry cleaning.
That drive-up ATM is seriously the best thing out there for those of us with social anxiety issues, and on a tight schedule.
Another factor is just how cheap fast food is in the US. When you can get a 1000 kilocalories for $5 in 20 minutes, it’s no wonder people choose to use them so frequently.
When double lane drive thrus started cropping up I remember thinking why stop here why not put two of every restaurant right next to each other and then continuing outward until all of America is Burger King
Dive Thrus are not that popular here in Brazil. There are even chains like McDonald’s that spend a lot of their money in publicity trying to make people use drive thrus. We have them in some fast food restaurants, but most people prefer to eat at the restaurant or order the food at home. The idea of eating while you’re in a moving car is completely weird.
pleased to hear your nuanced take on health when it comes to the stuff we eat. a lot of the more important issues (sugar intake, empty calories,) get drowned out with fatphobic rhetoric. keep it up, man.
American food is toxic both at the fast food, sit down restaurant and at the supermarket. Ultra processed super unhealthy. Eat low carb, real food. Most Americans being so obese and unhealthy would do better to adopt that way of eating. If one is consuming more than 50g of carbs a day, that is way too much over that amount.
As an urban dweller for the last 25 years (and a pedestrian for most of it), it makes me cringe every time I end up in the suburbs. They just get sprawlier and sprawlier as the decades go on. I love your channel and all of the light you shed on how our land use affects us as individuals and as a planet. "Take Your Fries And Leave" from Henry Grabar Slate is a great share that everyone should read.
Cooked a frozen veggie burger for lunch at home while I listened to this welcomed episode. Appreciate that you offer wisdom about supporting the non-chain restaurants when you do need to eat on the road. I feel bad for our society that has for a large part, accepted eating out many times a week as normal. It is not folks.
Not up to you to decide what's normal.
Just listened to a New York Times Daily podcast about mining nodules off the ocean floor for minerals to make batteries for electric cars to save the world. There was no discussion that maybe cars and everything that goes with them are the problem, not how they are powered. Please keep making more videos. I'll try to come up with some topics. I hope you are not running out of ideas. I enjoy your sarcasm, too. Keep it up.
Around 12:30 you mentioned it would be great for anyone to live somewhere you can easily walk or bike to a place with good food and it reminded me of how many youtube channel have hello fresh (a company that provides recipes and deliver portioned food at home) as a sponsor.
It seems weird to me that people need someone to make the groceries for them.
Most people don't cook anymore and I don't blame them. I hate it, too. I prefer to have food already prepared for me even if I just have to heat it up to eat it. Preparation of the food is almost as bad as the clean up afterwards.
@@laurie7689 As I read your comment I'm preparing braised chicken with potatoes.
Will have it in 20 minutes with my vegetable salad.
Beats any fast food I know by taste, health benefits and price.
HelloFresh is a great way to pick up cooking, I used it for over a year. Starting from having no idea how to cook to cooking most meals throughout the week. It's really convenient for its meal variety and pre-portioned ingredients. The biggest caveat, of course, is that you pay a premium on the food. (It's just as expensive as buying fast food for every *portion*)
@@udishomer5852 I've never understood what "braised" ever meant. No matter how many times I look at the dictionary meaning, it just doesn't make sense. I don't understand seer?/sear? either. I'm in my 50's now. The most experience I had with somebody teaching me to cook was in high school in the mid to late 80's for one semester by a mostly senile, ready-to-retire but tenured Home Ec Teacher. Mostly, we just copied recipes from the class Home Ec cookbook onto index cards. We got to make one recipe (pizza), the entire semester. What little I learned about cooking came from trying easy to do recipes (not so easy to me) from cookbooks. Most of the time, the food doesn't come out right. My Mom couldn't cook either and (having tasted her Mom's food) my Grandmother couldn't cook. My Dad's Mom could cook good food, but she died when I was young. I have the worst time trying to use a kitchen knife. I never learned how to chop/dice/ or any of that stuff correctly - just trying it on my own. I've watched cooking shows, but they go too fast and they don't explain how to do it. My daughter is in her early 20's and tries to do some cooking, but she says none of hers comes out right either. I can't even give her any advice because I can't cook. It would be the blind leading the blind.
@@TheKeksadler Ok. I find it easy to create a meal by myself. But I recognize that I eat almost the same thing every day, but it doesn't bother me.
Drive thru mcd’s down the block in Oakland (depressingly close to downtown) constantly has a queue spilling out into the street, backing up traffic.
Topic suggestion: I'd like to see your thoughts on signage. I live in the Netherlands, and the only thing we love more than we our nitpicky little rules is reminding eachother of those rules. Some streets are just a forest of signs that nobody reads anymore.
Closely related is the amount of advertising that is allowed in certain areas.
Vancouver BC advertising billboards are illegal and there is a NATIVE reserve on the approach to down town Vancouver that has like 50 billboards in a mile stretch as NATIVE land does NOT fall under city bylaws
Interesting that you bring that up, as my metro area (Denver, USA) has a noticeable lack of signage. This was even pointed out to me by someone who works as an urban planner here. I suspect that a non-negligible portion of our traffic problems stem from the fact that people don't see where the right exit/turn/cutoff/lane change is in time, then either cause an accident trying to make it, or they miss it and keep driving, needlessly adding to the number of cars still on a given road.
@@jasonriddell in n. van right ?
@@alechagen6291 Speaking of Denver do you know why they love to sign Limon? It's a tiny town in the middle of nowhere yet it gets a direction sign?!
Atlanta: "Hold My beer"
Proceeds to constructing a Drive Thru Chic-Fil-A in at the intersection of two high traffic corridors in Old Fourth Ward which needs to become more pedestrian friendly and walkable. It's also right up the street from a major walking trail which attracts hundreds if not thousands on any given beautiful weekend.
It’s fascinating how different drive through culture is over in the US, I live in the UK and we do have drivethrus here but they seem to be used differently, the biggest one I can think of near here and the only one I’ve personally used around my town is a McDonald’s with both a seating area and a drivethru that I’ve used several times even though I’ve never eaten in the car, that just seems so gross, if we use the drivethru it’s almost always because we’re driving home and need a quick dinner, you drive through and grab your meal then drive hone and eat there. For years that’s what we did and I always just assumed that was what they were for, I never realised how many people buy food and eat in their car, then drive home with their greasy hands on the wheel, that just seems far too gross for me, I’d always prefer to sit in or drive elsewhere. It seems like they’re rarely used here the same way as in the US, they’re for getting a meal to eat elsewhere without needing to stop and go through the hassle of parking.
The road layouts are different too, most drive throughs here aren’t placed along town roads or stroads (the latter don’t seem to exist here that often), they’re usually either placed in motorway service stations with slip lanes to take you off the motorway and into the service station area to reduce traffic, or they’re placed on smaller roads near high traffic dual carriageways so you aren’t blocking the main road with lots of entrances and exits for the drivethrus.
Yeah. Concur from here in NZ. Same model here as UK in terms of road and usage.
The only times I've ever eaten in the car via drive-through [as a passenger, obviously] is when I was flat out out of time and needed food in stomach now on way to doing something important. It wasn't pleasant but it was one of the few options to get anything to eat so I'd be able to pay attention without going 'Huh, I want to eat'.
Ok. There was one other time... KFC drive-through in carpark outside a mall on way to getting covid vaccination inside said mall while everything was locked down.
"Aren't often placed on town roads" heh. My nearest one is and at lunchtime it always blocks the roundabout. It's sad really.
The US is like that because besides toll roads in the eastern US we don't have service stations on highways like the UK does. Most rest stops in the US are a small parking area and a rest room
When I was a kid in Florida in the late 1960's a local bank had drive-through, television banking so that the customer could see the far off teller via a TV screen. The transaction would be through a pneumatic tube. It was a thing back then.
Where I am in Australia we have this problem too, and some times the queue get pretty long at drive through. I just find it easier to walk in normally, or even better, if I already know what I want, order ahead and walk in.
Though the thing I can't understand is the sprawling parking shopping areas with plenty of restaurant but with a handful of them also having drive-throughs, which can be a headache if some cars are ordering from multiple drive-throughs. Surely it would make sense to just park and walk to each of them, and this would give an added bonus to the restaurants included in these places that doesn't have a drive-through, as the customers would also consider them a food option if they're not just driving through.
Pros and cons to people living to these areas though, they get the benefit of food and shopping options without having to drive to them, but at the same time have to live with the traffic.
Considering that there are a couple other TH-camrs who film themselves going food delivery on bike/e-bikes with "pick up 0.7 miles away" and "drop off 1 mile away", these drive-thru places know their clientele.
I would like to mention all the pandemic restrictions that cut off walkers like myself when they were in place. It's like they didn't plan for us at all. Up to the NATIONAL level, too. Fortunately, I love in a location that is reasonably walkable, thank goodness 😀!
in Canada, they never accounted for walkups like we were weirdos.
"Who's to say it's wrong...?" only goes so far, though. When people's preferences do in fact do serious damage to other people and the climate, well, ya know, it's at least a little wrong.
And could we at least *stop subsidizing* those preferences that are doing so much damage to other people and the planet?
So I guess it's not wrong to *want* complete convenience in every aspect of our lives. But it's pretty damn wrong to constantly indulge that selfishness and demand that the rest of the world subsidize it.
I worked at a drive-thru bank in 1988, in Rhode Island. I don’t remember any drive-thru food places back then.
In the 1950s there were hamburger joints where you could park and a waitress would take your order and bring it to your car (see the sitcom Happy Days).
Thanks for always providing good locals vegas content
My big thought was maybe just to push for a limited commercial allowance for residential neighborhoods. We can't have a walkable neighborhood without a place to walk to.
Maybe you can make a video to help people get started with how to approach their local council.
but even having a bodega in a residential area wont work well as there is often so few people that will pass near it as the neighbourhoods are DESIGNED to minimise traffic and to "lock out" non locals from entering often even making walking into them HARD to do
Maybe. But, people should have a chance to run a little store if they want to take a chance. It won't work well everywhere, but it will somewhere and we need to start somewhere.
Ive never understood drive thrus. You want to put greasy food on your car seat and have it leave that weird smell in your car? 95% of the time when theres an option Ill go into the store
I accept that drive thrus are very bad in many ways but I also use them all the time because I do not want to be perceived.
What, you mean people don't use a trash can before leaving the parking lot, and roll the windows down while eating? I've seen lines at a national taco chain be so long you'd go inside to get your food and still wait 15 minutes for a common taco, as they did orders in order taken, not to settle the queue of people standing there waiting for fulfillment of what they already paid for?
I know of a burger chain that takes mobile orders and won't prepare your order until your location says you are there, even though the last time you were there it took 12 minutes waiting for the food, and you weren't even 5 minutes away when you placed the order. Where a restaurant offers a mobile pickup I'll use it.. I can save fuel shutting off the car and eating there, enjoying my food while it's hot, ever eat fries that got cold 5 minutes before, I have, and they don't taste good microwaved. Plus a burger just isn't the same to go 5 blocks away to eat it somewhere else.
Loving that he shows a Burger King planning doc that looks like a vintage 1910s Automat, with the voiceover "Is this progress?"
I'm more concerned about what they do AFTER they leave the drive thru. Cars have become restaurants, make up room, phone booths, library, and anything else but driving a car. Very few will get their order and find a parking space to eat. They tend to balance the fries on the console and keep the lettuce from the burger from falling on their shirt, and get the soda that pops up thru the straw hole.
I advocate at my city level for allowing development of more corner stores further from the "core" of the city in residential neighborhoods that service those neighborhoods more specifically, but my city in all of its planning documents only focuses on poaching traffic from the I-5 that runs through it (and also makes it hell to get from one side to another if you're on foot.)
And topic suggestion: what cities have done to incentivize the redevelopment of aging/derelict large consumers of downtown land. Such as: convention centers, coliseums, etc.
Not much unless a developer comes up with a viable plan. My family owns a now defunct (due to a state referendum banning that type of business) business on 130 acres. The land is in a premium location next to excellent transportation. Hopefully it will be purchased in the next few years.
@@kennixox262 Hopefully the municipality will adopt a land use tax and force your family to release the land from their grips as they wait to get as much money on their monopoly as possible.
@@radishpineapple74 Not likely sweetheart but keep on dreaming from your rented property.
@@kennixox262 Was that supposed to be an insult?
@@radishpineapple74 Imagine that!
I remember my first trip through a McDonald’s drive thru in 1975 Overland Park, KC (KC, MO burb). I also remember, in the 90s, seeing many old McDonald’s torn down, or remodeled in action, to reverse the 70-30 dining to kitchen floor plan ratio. The new ones were 70-80% space for taking and preparing orders, as well, they lengthened the outer wall space for multiple windows with ample distance between.
Recently found this channel and love it. I just figured out who his voice reminds me of... Energy Vampire Colin Robinson from What We Do In The Shadows... and this is no insult
Hi City Nerd, what are your thoughts on Amusement Industries (theme parks, zoos, casinos, etc...) for Land use? I assume it falls under the same category as golf courses but there could be something else worth noting. What are they good for/what are they NOT good for?
The "Consistency" of fast food chains is a great feature if you're driving through a sketchy neighborhood you've never been to before.
But how often do you do that? Unless you're some kind of long-haul deliveryman, maybe one or two times a year?
If you live in a place, it takes very little effort to figure out where the good food is.
often though, while I understand the labor culture is designed and lobbied against this( and thus most people don't have the time/energy to do this) the most affordable/healthiest/funnest option is to cook for yourself. you get to control portion sizes to your liking, groceries in the united states are usually less than restaurants, it's easier to find healthier ingredients, your not spending time outside but are inside in a familiar/comfortable/safe place, and with grocery delivery becoming a thing, a lot of the historical downsides are mitigated. my Walmart+ delivery is probably just as consistent as the availability of a fast food restaurant, the time spent cooking is a more engaging time than just probably blank time on my phone at a restaurant, and people usually well regard you when you tell them you cook your own food.
Alot. I love to travel and it's nice having things you know are consistent on your drive
Glad you mentioned the rise of "drive-thru only" establishments. I've seen these increasingly popping up.
I really appreciate that you pointed out the insane amount of land and resources animal agriculture uses!! It’s honestly mind blowing how wasteful it is!
I can't sleep wondering what will happen once we fill the world's largest stadium. Have you thought about this oncoming crisis? What will be the new unit of measure?
Drive-through banking is still a thing because so many banks disabled the feature that allows their ATMs to take deposits of cash or checks.
Mostly that seems to have been driven by the card issuer, not the ATM owner. The card issuer is the on on the hook for "deposits" that include empty envelopes and poor accounting. And checks are now adequately provisioned for with apps on devices with cameras.
I love your vids. I used to live in Seattle, and I go to Vegas alot this is all relevent lol. I recognize so many of the neighborhoods you film.
I do remember that one night during a road trip through the southwest I had to get some cash at night, and the only ATM in that town was a drive-trough, which is really awkward if you get there on foot (as i do as a European)
That new development though.... damn, that's some drive-thru on drive-thru violence right there.
One time I went to Chick-Fil-A by bike and they closed the indoors because they were short-staffed. They refused to let me even buy a meal!!! A good samaritan bought a meal for me and I offered to give him money but he didn't let me (because I'm young and he's a middle-aged adult). That really infuriated me.
“The car is most peoples third place” is the most dystopian yet true sentence I’ve heard so far.
Here in Iowa, we have drive-up liquor stores, ugh. What is fun to watch was the Fast Food restaurants that decided that because of the pandemic no one would want to eat in anymore so they started cutting out their dining rooms. A Taco Bell in our town did this and now the dining room is always overcrowded at peak times because the pandemic over that it was an outlier not a change of long-term direction. What I also laugh at is that Burger King across the street from the aforementioned Taco Bell remodeled their building with double ordering lanes but they never use them. Also how many fast food restaurants added second windows to take payments but don't use them. There is a bunch of second-tier fast food restaurants with two windows that never use them. Also since you talked about chain restaurants like Applebee's, the last time I went to Applebee's I ordered a steak and it was so raw it tried to get up and escape. I guess that is consistency for you, and we would have gone to an independent restaurant but they closed early that day due to it being the 4th of July and we just arrived back in town.
It also sucks that when your trying to find food after drinking a lot of places only have the drive thru open and refuse to serve you if you walk up to the drivethru window because they prefer you drive under the influence.
Taking forever to order at Raising Cane's sure is something. They have chicken tenders and fries. That's it.
Yes! You voiced many of my opinions. While much of the NYC metro area is very dense and not car dependent, much of it is car dependent and committed to that design, most particularly New Jersey where the MetLife stadium is.
I don’t even speak English I just find your voice therapeutic
1. It's regress. Automats were a thing a century ago, give or take.
2. 1,000 people driving their own cars, to the same spot, to idle in turn to get their food, is worse than one Grubhub employee making 1,000 deliveries, in the same way that 1,000 people driving their own cars to work is worse than 1 bus making the rounds to deliver 1,000 people to their destinations. Provided the Grubhub employee makes multiple pick-ups per trip to the store. Otherwise, it's no better than a taxi.
Personally, I'd prefer a walk-up counter, "food court"-type, arrangement near shared pedestrian spaces, such as parks. Mostly so I could have my Dairy Queen® Blizzard® with my Subway® foot-long, and grab some Cinnamon Twists from the Taco Bell® for dessert. This solves the issue that, for the restaurant, the car is preferred, since a customer who eats in a nearby park is similarly not taking up space in the dining room, and similarly doesn't require the restaurant staff to be responsible for wiping the table down either before or afterwards. It's still mooching on the part of the business, but the end result is at least better for everyone overall.
Frankly, your video put me in the mind of seeing if it would be practical and legal to drive a cargo bike down a gridlocked street, selling hot dogs and drip coffee to the commuters. Sort of a pop-up drive-through.
Nahh, not likely. It's more like 1,000 Grubhub employees idling in line at a fast food place to drive the food around. It comes out the same. Best case they can pick up a couple orders in the process, but that just means the food will suck and be cold for most of them.
I think it approaches break even, Grubhub is almost just as bad as individuals driving. Except with the servant aspect that makes it much worse.
(Edit: the "not likely" was directed at the grubhub part, the pedaling hot dog peddler sounds good)
@@TheJohnreeves I don't know why your comment got nixed. It was well-reasoned and brought up a couple good points.
I would HOPE that the Grubhub employees would grab multiple orders going in the same general direction, if only to increase their revenue, ignoring all the externalities. I would also hope they didn't grab so much that they couldn't deliver it all in a short time window; the time window of how long it takes for the warm patty to wilt the lettuce in a hamburger, and that they'd use an insulated container to do so, but that may well be asking too much.
On that last paragraph, I have actually seen people in NYC sell things like mango and churros on streets (and once in DC a homeless man forcibly made a car have a wash and got money from the driver out of intimidation)
@@S_Roach that's true, if they pick up multiple orders. My thought was just that if lines really are a problem, and the destination for the food is any distance more than a couple miles, it seems really tricky to actually do multiple orders at once. Like you said, the lettuce (and fries which are garbage after like 5 minutes). But even if they got 2 half the time, it's something like 25% better. So not nothing, but just not that great.
@@TheJohnreevesDo food delivery apps economize the orders they assign to each driver, to minimize travel distance? Or is it up to the individual driver to decide which orders to accept, and what order to deliver them?
Because economizing deliveries is a difficult problem to solve in a computer algorithm. A problem known as The Travelling Salesman, where the processing time grows exponentially with the number of items to process..
The downhill coast idea is novel but most vehicles need to be running in order to have power assistance with the brake system so.... probably not a good idea.
Maybe a conveyer system like they use in some carwashes...?
I worry about the pandemic increasing drive-thru use and motivating businesses to build more of them. Because I have close family members and friends with serious health conditions, I’ve found myself using them more even though I hate them. There’s only one pharmacy and one food place near me with walk-up pick up windows. I can’t even always use that pharmacy because I have some meds that get really pricey unless I go to a further away pharmacy that has some discount deal with my insurance
in Canada AP based pre ordering and having "kerbside" pickup is getting very popular right now (use phone APP and order + set pickup time show up park call phone number and enter stall number and they deliver order to your car
Dine in fast food restaurants for the most part are quickly going out of fashion due to labor costs, maintenance for restrooms (druggies in the restrooms). The pandemic changed things and franchise owners quickly discovered deleting the dining room saves big $$$$$$$$$. Expect to see more drive-through only places in the future.
Thanks.
I like the '...walk or bike to ... good food' option.
I can kinda do this in Loftus 30Km south of Sydney AUS.
In N Out's used to be only drive through, as in you couldn't order inside or sit down as they were just a kitchen with windows to the street. There are still some of these old school locations operating in So Cal to this day. I love them. They have a drive though on each side of the booth (kitchen) so you get your food twice as fast, and they are a pat of the regions history!