Watching this channel makes me think the US is actually an urbanism dystopia. The pan out of the center to see it surrounded 360° by huge parking lots was actually soul crushing
The other problem with a "lifestyle center" as opposed to actually being able to walk out of your home and enjoy a proper city space is that in the real one, your neighbors are also walking around and so you'll see people and shopkeepers etc that you KNOW, but in a "lifestyle center" everyone is likely to be a stranger. If you happen to run into someone you know, it's a miracle! So even though there's a semblance of density it's all still just cold and sterile.
Yeah and there's no housing included. This is no different than a strip mall. I don't know why people would want to go there, maybe they're so starved for normal human infrastructure they take anything.
I do not see that a problem. But then I do not know my neighbors. I like walkable areas where to spend time but not in my own neighborhood. It would be boring if I was limited to the are where I can walk.
@@okaro6595 Oh, I like to walk in new places too, but I also like to walk in places where I run into people I know. Something about it soothes the soul. Plus you never know when you'll need your neighbor, when some emergency comes up, so it's good to take the time to get to know them when you're not in need, if they're willing. Sadly some people are not. It's also rewarding to be able to reciprocate when my neighbor needs something. It's a safety net. There's an old proverb, "Better a neighbor near by than a brother far away."
I grew up in Vegas. It’s such a strange, artificial place. As a child, I couldn’t go outside all summer because it’s 110 degrees and you can’t go anywhere unless you have a car, and my parents worked a lot. I tried biking to the local grocery store when I was 11 and had to cross this scary, wide stroad (with no crosswalk lights) to get there. I almost got ran over doing that. I left the state as soon as I turned 18.
Where do you live now? As City Nerd said, now in December you can be outside (in skimpy summer clothes, I say) to eat or do outdoor stuff. Try doing that here now in Canada where we have a snowstorm coming! And there are "lifestyle centers" here in Canada too. Even in a so called "have not" province like Nova Scotia.
The absolute worst thing about those places is they still don't get walkability right. Instead of a German Style Walkplatz, most of them still have traffic running through despite the infinite parking around the edges.
I was actually surprised by that too. Where I'm from "entrepreneurs" started investing in open-air malls instead of massive multi-story shopping centers, so I was always thinking the lifestyle centers were the same thing, or the inspiration to my malls. It's mental that even they aren't fully pedestrian. Most places I know have basic wheelchairs at the entrance by the security, and you're free to take one if grandma can't walk far. Bought too much? Wheel your shopping cart to your car and leave it in the collection spot in the parking lot. I was also surprised by lack of people in the video, though that might be intentionally shot to respect people's privacy. I'd have expected to see a lot of people walking around with a couple of shopping bags, since it's the gift shopping season. This setup still feels incredibly uninviting, I know plenty of arterial streets in my home city with store fronts dotted everywhere and sidewalks wide enough to welcome groups larger than 4.
I could see surface parking used as a placeholder for future expansion, but I would agree that having both an abundance of surface lots and parking structures is a bit overkill.
No no, that’s explicitly by design! These people are in the business of managing parking! They know precisely how useless those “street parking” spaces are! The reason why those parking spaces are included and why those “main streets” look the way they do is because they are simulating a very particular style of an early 20th century street design, a distinctly American main street! They want to create a specific ambiance - that of an affluent American streetcar suburb that was wealthy enough to have retained its architectural and street design. These places are so expensive these days that the traditional main streets have become a symbol of multigenerational wealth and prosperity. Basically, these “lifestyle centers” are simulating “money” - a rich neighborhood with traditional, old-timey American retail.
@@TohaBgood2 Thanks for the explanation. I was wondering why these supposedly pedestrian friendly places still dedicate the majority of their space to the 20 cars that drive there each hour.
It's because they want it to look like a town. And no actual town in America has a pedestrian zone lined by commerce. Large cities barely have it. Without roads it would feel more like an outdoor mall, which is a 'negative' stigma the builders want to avoid being associated with.
Or young. All the rules restricting kids and teenagers having fun is ridiculous. If you read further down, they will kick out kids who are there during school hours. And of course, they reserve the right to kick out "juveniles" if there are too many of them in one spot. This place is for the old, rich boomers, you whippersnappers!!!
How do you lot think that these types of places work in walkable cities in Europe? It’s exactly the same! The gendarmes, or the carabinieri, or the polizei are constantly patrolling those public spaces in pairs and enforcing the exact same type of ruleset! I’m sorry, but this suburban American idea that public spaces can just “exist” with zero enforcement except a patrol car passing through every three days is complete boomer nonsense! 80 years of suburban car dependency in the US have made us completely forget how public spaces work, but this exactly how things always were! Yes, public spaces are extremely vulnerable to a small percentage of the population misbehaving and trashing the place. You need pretty intense on-foot enforcement (or the threat of enforcement) to keep these types places clean and inviting to everyone. You can see what happens to this European-style walkability without European-style policing in places like San Francisco! It degrades into a mess of endless security guards, “ambassadors”, and private cops! Or there’s just pure mayhem without the specialized security. Yes, the draconian rules posted in this particular mall are ridiculous and clearly discriminatory. But that is just because they don’t want to spend too much money on enforcement and are cranking up “the threat of enforcement” instead. In reality, you still need to choose some mix of these two to make a public space work. That’s just how large groups of people function. It’s not optional!
@@Luboman411 well actually when children are somewhere they should not be during school hours then they should be maybe not kicked out but the school should be called and the parents.
@@TohaBgood2 I've lived in Spain and the U.S. for large parts of my life and there is a huge difference in police presence. In Spain you forget the police exist and hearing sirens is rare despite having waaaaay higher density than anywhere I've lived in the U.S. In crowded pedestrian streets with like 3,000 people crammed into a strip smaller than a Walmart you might see a cop on a bike somewhere, if at all, and nothing happens. People are drinking too, but I've never seen a fight, theft, etc. Meanwhile in the U.S. people and places are spread sooooo far apart, there's cops patrolling everywhere all the time, and drinking outside is illegal, yet there are more problems. I don't know enough to explain why these differences exist, probably several factors. If I had to guess it's mostly the social conditioning of the population combined with high poverty, high stress, and isolation leading to behavioral problems. But mainly I wanted to refute the claim that towns and cities and Europe work thanks to heavyhanded policing.
As a teen that struggled to find somewhere to exist without having to pay money, I am furious at that code of conduct. As an adult, even if they are noisy or disruptive, I love seeing teens out enjoying a downtown area. I love that peek into what their world is like.
I hate how teens are demonized, even in spaces where they could be paying customers. There's a movie theater in my city that banned unaccompanied teens, and I just don't understand why we as a society take away all the fun things that they should be able to do in public in favor of pushing them to stay inside and out of sight.
Out here in SoCal, all-out brawls between groups of teens in public spaces are far from an uncommon situation. There was one just a few days ago in Torrance, with supposedly over 1000 participants. If unaccompanied minors want the freedom to hang out in large groups in public spaces, they need to start self-policing. Do you think places like this want fewer patrons buying things? Of course not, but they also don't want random brawls breaking out.
These are great because they can bring a lot of stores into your residential neighborhoods. Plus, they bring in more tax revenue for your cities. It's getting more jobs and fantastic stores into your town without bringing in more residents who will compete against you and your family. These should help boost nearby neighborhoods' property values as people like to go and walk around for shopping occasionally. Could you build a substantial regional park next to one of these to pull in people from the other side of the city or nearby cities? ... I think so, make sure to build second-floor office space and a gym to make sure you provide enough economic energy that the locals would enjoy and help get approved.
Based on your video, I looked up the nearest lifestyle center near me in Chicago. It turns out there is one a mere 24.2 miles away by car which would take 32 minutes. Not owning a car, it would take 2 hours to get there by public transport, or 2 hours 20 minutes by bike. I prefer a 15 minute walk to a real urban equivalent. Thanks for the consistent reinforcement that walkable urban environments are to be treasured.
If you're in a big city why would they build a lifestyle center there? You have the real thing, you don't need one. Of course it's gonna be a 30 minute drive, it's not for you guys Lifestyle centers are for us who *don't* want to live in a big city, but still like having some level of urbanism in our lives, when we want a night on the town.
I noticed that the grocery stores we’re so used to are a form of simulated urbanism also, even to the point of having fake store fronts or awnings over different sections of the store. Where in the past, you’d have to go to the butcher, the pharmacist, the produce farmer, etc., and ideally it’d be all within a walkable town center. Now most modern grocery stores have come to the create an appearance and convenience of a town center.
This hits so personally. The grove was a great place to be when I was in LA. And the city I live in now, Irvine, is famous for its Spectrum lifestyle center. It is a symptom of a larger problem, but it sure beats walking through a power center parking lot.
From Santa Ana. Yeah these lifestyle centers like the Irvine Spectrum really have this artificial feel. It just being there to shop lacks the walkable feeling of being in a neighborhood in say New York
A lifestyle center that works is Glendale, California's Americana. It seems to integrate well int to the downtown and it compliments the adjacent mall.
Haven't been to the Spectrum, but it not only has a Yard House and a PF Chang's, but it has a Cheesecake Factory too! It just doesn't get better than that
End of an era for sub stadium counts! I hope you keep it up with walkable cities as you approach 1M subs, could really show off that walkable places don't need to be 1M+ populated (especially in North America)
When I first started watching this video, I was like "oh yeah like City Centre in Houston or the Domain in Austin or the ones in San Antonio or DFW" and then he said yardhouse and I realized I've been to two of those Yard Houses.
Lol there's only one YardHouse in my area and yes it's in a quasi big box semi life style center strip mall on a stroad (perhaps the most hated thoroughfare in the area lol). However it's actually not very "lifestyle center"-esque. It's not that fancy but maybe that's because a few miles away there's one of the best downtowns in the country.
It would be cool to see a list of 'salvageable' car-oriented areas. Like, if the street layout isn't terrible, if the area is adjacent to bike or transit routes, or if the layout would allow for parking lots to eventually be transitioned into something useful, or if it isn't too far from real downtown/urban areas, there is hope for it. As you're exploring google maps for other projects, you could note certain locations as 'hope' or 'no hope', and then use that list to demonstrate the factors you think make it possible to improve a currently-bad setting into a habitable one.
What you've described is basically the urban core of every US city that had a sizeable population by the turn of the 20th century. These places are now mostly car-dependent hellholes, but the shadow of car-free design is still there as it was inherent to their settling and expansion of those cities in the first place. Newer urban developments, on the other hand, I'm afraid are going to be impossibly hard to salvage. I'm looking at you, the majority of the southwest US.
I can't believe you did this on a Vegas lifestyle center and didn't even mention Downtown Summerlin, where they literally built a shopping center and designated it as the "downtown" of their master-planned (yet car-centric) community. Oh, and escape rooms are the Spirit Halloween of the late 2010s-early 2020s - a tip-off that a property owner can no longer get full rent for that space.
Thanks for pointing this out. It has an interesting circular downtown layout but it is mostly a parking lot, maybe only a slightly-improved suburb. What is the closest transit connection to it? Do buses enter the subdivision? So more like "escape (bad-planning decisions) rooms".
@@kms1.62 You might be thinking of that weird center-ish area with the circular streets that seems to be a cluster of medical and legal business parks centered around a library. (The town council actually meets at a community center in a park in the middle of a development.) DT Summerlin is south of the Red Rock - the one positive is that there was undeveloped land around the lifestyle center, on which the new ballpark and Golden Knights training arena were recently built. It's served by a couple of buses, including the "Sahara Express" (which has a pretty crazy number of stops for something called an "Express").
Seeing footage of Cheesecake Factory inspires me to open a lifestyle center that's nothing but different architectural theming designs of a Cheesecake Factory (we just need to persuade them to come to the DPRK). As the biggest fan of cheese, Cheesecake Factory is the peak of society. Sure they're weird with their dictionary-sized menus, but that's what makes them stand out. The first restaurant opened in 1978 in Beverly Hills, and the rest is history.
Im so glad more people are starting to realize how truly awful lifestyle centers are for urbanism. Lifestyle centers are atrocious car-centric developments and are perfect examples of faux or simulated urbanism… it’s so sad that the US emulates walkable places for commercial zones rather than actually changing zoning laws for real mixed-use pedestrian oriented developments
Im so glad more people are starting to realize how truly awful lifestyle centers are for urbanism." They arent. They just tick off people that think that suburban places should not have them....because it offends their sensibilities >Lifestyle centers are atrocious car-centric developments and are perfect examples of faux or simulated urbanism "simulated urbanism" isnt a thing. Is "real urbanism" only something that can exist in approved places? These people are starting from scratch, but they arent allowed to because as long as they still accommodate the reality of cars, then they should just build more enclosed malls? >it’s so sad that the US emulates walkable places for commercial zones rather than actually changing zoning laws for real mixed-use pedestrian oriented developments Changing a zoning law isnt going to result in old town Countrytime Lemonade main streets to just pop up. There isnt some massive pent-up demand for this stuff or else in cities with those different zoning laws would be full of construction. And if you did change them, it would take DECADES to develop the places you rather walk through, as the "real thing" took that long to do it organically in the past.
@@WillmobilePlus you’re saying there’s not some massive pent-up demand for a real walkable city etc. but there IS or they wouldn’t be thousands watching this video!!!!
@@WillmobilePlus It would NOT necessarily take decades !!!!! to develop places to be more walkable and have a real town center as it did in the past since people have more modern technology to develop things along with computers and machines plus if people really want to get a thing done it can sometimes really get done quickly.
@@enjoyslearningandtravel7957 Ok? Thousands of people watching a video =/= anything to a builder that needs to secure funding and a developer that wont get it these days without a tenant lined-up. >It would NOT necessarily take decades !!!!! It will certainly take at least 20 years to rehab a traditional shopping district of a decent number of buildings. I live by one. The first rehab was back in around 2001, and 22 years later there are just starting on the two last bordered-up structures. There are STILL a couple of places that need rehabbing, and significant parcels that need something built on them. And this is an area my city touts in promotional material and is very popular. Starting from scratch? You are looking at 2x that > to develop places to be more walkable and have a real town center as it did in the past since people have more modern technology to develop things along with computers and machines plus if people really want to get a thing done it can sometimes really get done quickly. Uh.....no. That's not remotely a factor. I WISH it was, but a fast computer and power tools isnt making this quicker.
The ironic part is downtown Las Vegas actually seemed pretty nice when I was there a year ago, though very small for a "downtown". Relatively walkable and some great breweries. Though a stroad wasteland stands between it and the strip which I guess I should have expected.
I commented somewhere else pretty much the same experience. Carson to Charlston wasn't bad. Loved all the public art. Fremont is touristy, but very walkable with tons of great restaurants and people watching. If I was a local, I'd still walk up there a lot.
I hope you saw the place, in the downtown area, called HEART ATTACK GRILL, where it states, in neon letters, that if you weigh over 350 pounds, you eat for free. Nothing says 'Merica quite like that does!
"And only the finest of fine dining establishments" proceeds to show a Cheesecake Factory...I love how Cheesecake Factory is a running thing on this channel. Gordon Ramsay used to have a restaurant at The Grove called The Fat Cow, and it didn't even last two years because of a Spanish restaurant in FL that had exclusive rights over the name and that Spanish restaurant owner said to either close or change the name. It ended up closing, and then Gordon was sued not just by his business partner for the Fat Cow for 10 million for deliberately mismanaging the trademark problem, but also The Grove landlord sued Gordon for 6 million in unpaid rent on a lease of 52K a month. Though I like to think it closed because Gordon couldn't handle the power of the Cheesecake Factory, as he didn't have the lamb sauce yet on his side.
I wish that were true, but I can tell you that up here in Canada they are also being built in far too great a number. Seems like no one has thought out very well what a pain they are when it's 30 below. Although one of the new ones rear me did just open up a skating rink. Ffs.
Quartier Dix30 and Centropolis are both right next to Montreal, Quebec, Canada. They are not typical of year-yound summer areas, they are typical of North America.
At least it indicates the pent-up demand for traditional urbanist neighbourhoods. It’s not as if Vegas has any genuine ones (that are geared to locals and not only tourists), so it it weren’t for faux urbanism, Vegas would have no urbanism at all. Smash rooms were news to me, too.
I think the area south of Fremont Street Experience is coming up. The arts district has a lot of shops and restaurants mixed with low and mid rise residential. I worked up there a few weeks in September for Life is Beautiful and was riding my bike from the venue around to the south entrance at the Nugget, on Bidger, and as soon as I got off Fremont it felt like it was all locals in those neighborhoods. Lots of people on foot and bikes, busses, etc. Carson to Charleston, basically.
A city where all the nice spaces are geared principally to tourists is typically a pretty miserable place to live. Either you end up in the outskirts built on the cheap within the last couple decades or you live surrounded by tourists, have trouble finding basic amenities in between the tourist shops, and pay a premium for everything.
@@traveller23e In Vegas, pretty much everyone lives in the “outskirts” of the strip. There’s not really any housing on the strip (other than downtown Vegas cause it’s old). It makes the traffic horrible cause so many people commuting towards the Strip for work and what not.
Well, Town Square does have a solid planespotting location going for it at least. Find it interesting at 3:56 that Korean Air has a flight to Vegas from Incheon. I didn't know Vegas was that popular with Koreans, considering that Macau is a much closer gambling city. The design of the Vegas Strip is so influential that the late Sheldon Adelson used land reclamation to connect the Macanese islands of Coloane and Taipa to form a new Vegas-style strip called the Cotai Strip and this is where his Las Vegas Sands corporation built what was then the world's biggest casino at the Venetian Macau (this record is now held by WinStar World in Oklahoma). This Cotai Strip actually helped Macau become even richer than Vegas (ironically) and among the richest in the world, despite Macau's very small area. Macau is in the process of building a big LRT system with different lines that will connect every part of it, including a line going to Hengqin in the Mainland. Macau's progress is incredible.
Honestly, if you're *gonna* build a gigantic pile of surface parking and retail, I can think of worse places to do it than wedging it in between a highway interchange and an airport runway.
@@foamyesque In Canada it seems common to build these places, called outlet malls, near airports where space is cheaper because it's in the airport development area. They also want all highway and air travelers possible.
I befriended a few Koreans a while back. They both adored Vegas and really wanted to visit. The way they described the strip made it seem like some other-worldly paradise. Granted, Las Vegas is cool and all, but I guess there's some sort of international appeal that Americans, especially those who live in or near the area, just wouldn't have considered.
I have family in Vegas and have been to town square many times- this video is 100% accurate, and the sad thing is, it’s one of the few pleasant places to walk around. Another challenge with Vegas and bike and pedestrian friendly culture is that it’s just unbearable to be outside much at all in the summer months.
Dear citynerd, I always thought that I lived in the greatest place on earth, maybe the most urban place in the country, Manhattan, and your channel evidenced my thoughts ever since I started watching it, but I have to tell you, that this video has proved, without a doubt, that living here is just so extraordinary.
@@jesot The food is indeed good and they are usually very liberal in their sampling policy to the point I can drink 5 2oz. cups for free before committing.
Video suggestion 1: How are cemeteries perceived in urban design? Are they unmovable structures, forever placed around our growing cities or is it possible to relocate them and repurpose the land? I respect the dead but there's a finite amount of land for both the dead and the living and as both sides are continuing to grow in numbers, I find it somewhat weird to keep that land locked like that. A few examples that come to mind are Green-wood cemetery, Washington cemetery, Holy Cross cemetery, and a bunch of other cemeteries in NYC. Video suggestion 2: What is an appropriate amount of green space that a city/a city block should have? What can the city/community do to increase that space? This doesn't have to be only dedicated space like parks but also trees and bushes on the street. On a related note, why are some central plazas completely devoid of trees? Video suggestion 3: What are some ways the local community can advocate for more human-oriented design? What are some resources that we use to get informed about current plans and influence decision making?
Topic Ideas: I would love to see your take on movie theaters...especially the non-multiplexes in walkable areas. I've lived in neighborhoods with these theaters in NYC and Cincinnati, and it's at the top of my list for the type of establishment I want in my neighborhood. But will they survive the COVID and Netflix era? Also, your description of "hyper car-oriented infrastructure" hit home...and I'd love to see a bottom 10 video of absurd, overbuilt car infrastructure. (Wait, did I just describe every City Nerd video?)
Sadly a lot of these have fallen by the wayside recently at least where I am in Seattle: Guild 45th, Harvard Exit, Seven Gables, among others. The company that ran some of these did a poor job keeping them up and the movie offerings weren't unique enough. Meanwhile the Uptown and Egyptian theaters in the urban core of Seattle are part of SIFF (non-profit indie organization / film festival) and those venues have seemingly done well by offering an eclectic offering of movies and special events. It would be interesting to see a deep dive on this for sure
@@seattlesharksfan Movies in Seattle are expensive, here on Vashon it is $10, but in the city it goes up for like $15+. During covid when drive-ins were the only way of seeing movies in the theater, we had $20 a car here on Vashon, but my friends reported like $40-$50 a car. By the way the theater here on the island is doing fine, and is kind of an amazing theater. Shows the occasional old movies, sells coffee and beer, basic seats, no gimmicks, quiet audience, etc.
@@rokksula4082 Drive-in theatres seemed to be the only car-centric businesses that largely did not stick around in the era of making everything car-centric
They used to be so much more important. The Hollywood neighborhood in Portland is named after the theater; I imagine the Grand Lake neighborhood in Oakland predates the theater of the same name, but who knows? It does feel like the centerpiece of that neighborhood!
Yeah, Santana Row in San Jose is probably one of the better examples. People actually live there in apartments above the businesses. Its parking is all in structures. It used to have a surface lot but that's been built over now. It has bus routes running right beside it, although they're on stroads. There is some high density development filling in nearby within walking distance, and there is a half-hearted attempt to provide biking infra (exposed bike lanes, which could be segregated later). Valley Fair is an older style indoor mall across the stroad, and it's actually thriving. They instituted parking charges recently for anyone staying longer than two hours, which provoked the usual outrage online but the place seems to be as busy as ever. Santana Row's parking remains free, and I could see charges coming in eventually if it gets oversubscribed. There's also plenty of nearby strip mallage that can be filled in now that SJ has abolished mandatory parking minimums.
It's also next to Stevens Creek Boulevard. It has a rapid bus route with signal priority and the corridor is being studied for rapid transit. The 60 Winchester bus also goes to the airport and BART
Sometimes there are protests/demonstrations near the intersection of the 2 major stroads there, especially along the pedestrian right-of-way abutting Santana Row - which contributes to my sense that Santana Row feels like a more genuine urban space, less of a simulacrum than the Las Vegas center in the video. There are also a number of small businesses, small medical practices, and residential neighborhoods nearby.
The only thing similar to this I have seen here in Italy is called "Outlet Village", next to the "Mantova Sud" exit of tolled highway A22. There are restaurants and all kinds of clothing brands, surrounded by a large parking lot. No smashing of fax machines though...
I've had a lifelong allergy to lifestyle centers. Maybe it's because I'm a minimalist or maybe it's because I grew up near Disneyland and am suspicious of anyplace that gives off even a slight whiff of Disney vibes.
They built one of these fairly recently near where I live here in Torrance, adjacent to the Del Amo fashion center. It's modest, by lifestyle center standards and features more down-to-earth stores like Old Navy. I actually wouldn't mind it except for the fact that they insist on piping loud music over a sound system to force a festive atmosphere which just makes me want to run screaming to the nearest library.
Another example of a not-terrible lifestyle center is Broadway Plaza in Walnut Creek, CA. Sure one side of it is an absolutely monstrous parking garage, but the other sides open up well into the "traditional" downtown to the west and north. It also does a good job focusing on retail, such that the traditional downtown restaurants are not as threatened. Plus, there is a Cheesecake Factory!
I would disagree with you on Broadway Plaza being a "lifestyle center". I grew up near there. Most of buildings that make up Plaza have been there for decades. There was some construction to unify the look of the place. But, it is really how Walnut Creek's downtown over time. The parking garage isn't that bad. It is kind of hidden. You have to drive out there because the "County Connection" sucks.
The Domain and the area around it in Austin is a really interesting Lifestyle Center. Started out as a simple Simon outdoor mall and has exploded into basically Austin's uptown. 300-400ft office and residential towers are now going up pretty regularly and its even home to Austin FC's stadium now!
One of my definitions for a real town center is that you can have art festivals there by local artist or autumn festivals with food stands for local people‘s and I don’t think they can have these things in high end lifestyle centers. At least not often because it would block the shoppers from their high-end businesses. Also very important to me I noticed when I was walking in a real town center where are used to live in the outer suburbs but I could take the street car down or bicycle and I could often run into one of my friends or acquaintances while was doing my errands and then we would stop for coffee or a drink or even a meal.
I think another good indicator is when more than 80% of the stores and restaurants are locally owned, one of a kind places. Very few or no chain stores or franchises.
the ala moana mall in honolulu was horrifying… the facade on both sides are parking garages. the pedestrian entrance and a number of storefronts are inside the parking dungeon. took me 20+ minutes to figure out how to get to the ped entrance the garage from a bus stop a couple blocks away. hawaiian cities are in largely in a flat, beautiful environment with good weather that is difficult to export cars to. it should be an paradise of transit walkability and bikeability. but it’s inexplicably designed around cars
@@mattchtx 5 minutes for who? the beach is also cut off by a 6 lane stroad and it actually took me 20 minutes to get inside the “lifestyle center” from outside
These places are akin to a Disneyland for shoppers. Building fake, very kitsch downtowns where there are no towns is just emblematic of how superficial life has become in the US.
For most of the video, I was thinking "this is a cute corporate fantasy urbanism" and I didn't hate it. And then you showed the aerial image and I gasped. America has indeed paved over paradise and put up a cheap imitation. Hideous.
Unfortunately, I think you hit the nail on the head when you discuss the fact that lifestyle centers are private developments without public spaces and the rights which come with public space. For some reason, I imagine that the same people who shop in lifestyle centers live in gated communities with uber-restrictive HOAs. Anything to avoid having to deal with the riff-raff
@ghost mall yeah bro, keep feeling sorry for people who hate you and want to ruin your day at all costs. And I will keep walking around in places where I don't get screamed at.
Ironically, some of the most walkable towns and cities are found in the Post Soviet Eastern Europe. People didn't get to buy a Trabant or a Lada until late in life. Gradski transport consisted of buses period. When arrving in Burgas, in the Spring of 2000, I was amazed how far Daniela would routinely walk from her flat to work each day. But buses ran everywhere and there was an intracity train system on the par with that of Tamil Nadu, South India in 1985.
As bad as that Town Square in Vegas is, at least it's a great location for planespotting. Yeah I wouldn't count that place in Germantown, TN as a lifestyle center, that's nothing more than a typical suburban strip mall. Something interesting I found about Germantown is regarding its name. It isn't called that because of the German families who settled there (that part is purely coincidence), but rather because of the town lots that were laid out in 1834 by surveyor N. T. German, and Germantown became its name in 1836. Before that, it was called Pea Ridge. But during WWI as a result of anti-German sentiment, the city temporarily changed its name to Neshoba, which in Chickasaw means "wolf".
9:29 I didn't expect to hear this on this channel, but you are absolutely correct. I definitely the think the pursuit of e-sports has ruined online gaming and probably worsened videogame addiction.
Hi CityNerd! I recently moved from Portland, OR to Peoria, IL and I feel like it was probably a similar step backward in walkability as you moving to Henderson lol.
As a Peoria native I recommend staying away from East Peoria and the North part of town, Peoria has much better bones than most Southwestern cities but a lot of that has been neglected sadly, Peoria Heights is doing a lot of good work when it comes to housing access (replacing a free-standing subway with condos). The warehouse district, West Bluff, Peoria Heights, and downtown are nice areas to walk around as well, though downtown could be a bit livelier.
@@oryender6895 Well, Ive found the same while in Normal. Our college apartment was 700/month for 4 bedrooms, and my roommates are still there enjoying the price. It's merely 3 blocks away from the walkable downtown ("uptown") and Amtrak/bus station!
@@ivy_47 We're working on that Amtrak access, we have a former Transportation Secretary on our side, and there are some nice walkable neighborhoods, West Bluff, Peoria heights, the warehouse district and downtown are good areas of Peoria.
I went to Tivoli village near Summerlin. It’s odd having such a walkable and quaint feeling area that’s just surrounded by stroads and the summerlin parkway. If you haven’t checked it out you really should. It is interesting.
The Country Club Plaza was built in Kansas City, Missouri in 1923, just as the automobile was really becoming king and the federal highway system numbering was in the offing. US 50, which now runs in the southern part of the city, used to go right along the south edge of the shopping area, about six miles north of where it runs now. It was inspired by Seville, Spain. Though it’s much older than the 90s and 00s built lifestyle centers scattered in Kansas City, it was foreshadowing.
The one lifestyle center that defines the category for me, and even suggests how these spaces could develop over the long run, is Downtown Santa Monica's Third Street Promenade - it is, in fact, successful at being a downtown, by LA standards. It's walkable, has transport connections, blends into the street grid and is near the city's beachfront attractions. But I was weirded out by just how many major retail chains they managed to consolidate in one space - it's built far bigger than an ordinary shopping street and probably compares best to some of the classic shopping arcades, or perhaps the shotengai in Osaka for a still-active contemporary example. It's managed by "Downtown Santa Monica, inc." in a public-private partnership which is telling of how much the developers are calling the shots.
Santa Monica Promenade predates lifestyle centers according to Google and I wouldn’t consider it as such. It would indeed be nice if these lifestyle centers did turn into something like Santa Monica promenade by adding nearby high density dwellings. It’s such a cool place to hang out along with its pier.
Santa Monica's Third Street Promenade doesn't qualify as a lifestyle center. The Grove at Farmers Market does meet that criteria. While I find it generally synthetic, I personally believe it to be somewhat of a "success". Perhaps, because it anchored by a well loved LA food and tourist destination---the Farmers Market @ Third & Fairfax. It's also part of a specific area In Los Angeles that could really use just this type of added shopping option.
Suggest coming to Cincinnati. Cincinnati is a good place to be from March to October. Lots of festivals and free concerts, outdoor restaurants. Cincinnati is very hilly so its a test for biking and walking some places. From Cincinnati you can also do videos from Louisville Kentucky Derby and Indy 500. Also easy to get to Dayton outdoor concerts, Lexington, Columbus, Cleveland, Detroit, South Bend IN, St Joseph/Benton Harbor Michigan Beaches.
I work in Town Square, walking to that Tacos El Gordo at the 12 minute mark is scary. All the people driving to the lifestyle center to walk around don't really look out for pedestrians.
I am surprised you didn't mention Easton Town Center in Columbus, OH. Les Wexner was behind it and pretty much kicked off this Lifestyle Center craze. Then again, they are constantly evolving the place with expansions which may be unlike the other Lifestyle Centers.
Easton was the first place I thought of when I was watching this video. Been to Columbus pretty frequently since 2000 and the growth and repurposing of the space has been interesting for sure
Same here I did a ctl+f looking for the Easton comment. Polaris was built only a few years later about 10 miles away as a traditional mall and they scrambled to build an outdoor lifestyle area tacked onto one side of the mall to compete.
@@TheRetarp That's right. They tore down the Kaufmann's building and replaced it with a Promenade with the only thing note worthy is the Barnes & Nobles.
I remember when Easton opened and I was in high school. Everyone wanted to go there except me who thought it was horrifying. Then I ended up living down the stroad and working in retail hell for 4 years...
I have been to Town Square many times since I live two miles away and it is the closest thing to a town center "third place" for me. There are some upsides though. It has proven that you can make non-residential areas pretty close to single family homes since they look compatible and have a good amount of detaisl. It also shows the desire for traditional areas. There are also plenty of downsides not mentioned here. The quality of exterior materials should improve and of course it is pretty isolated from other uses especially residential. Same with other lifestyle centers. The reason why these areas are largely privately owned and managed it is due to the fact that the Las Vegas area has not so efficient local government. The site is governed by Clark County just like 40% of the valley so more authority goes large companies and HOA's. This instead of having more compact cities that can manage public streets, safety, shared spaces better where there aren't any cities less than 100,000 folks in the valley. Also due to the large numbers of low life types (thanks to demographic change), the private entity can easily escorts them out.
Topic Idea: Not sure if it's that interesting, but I'm interested in the ways underground parking impacts urban fabric. Incentivizing driving vs saving street space, cost, potential other uses of underground space (???). Or just a top 10 about cities with most underground parking, ;).
Not Just Bikes just had a piece about this in his newest video.The TL;DW is that while it makes the streetscape better it encourages driving and is extremely costly to build.
I for the life of me do not understand why Brightline chose that location for their station. It's not in walking distance from the strip... A monorail extension would be 100% necessary. The thing is there is a rail line in a ditch right behind the strip that is largely grade-seperated from the roads! The viaducts and alignment seem wide enough for a Brightline-dedicated third track. If no third track, then surely they could come to a lease agreement with the railroad owner. All they then would have to do is build rail spurs and a terminal station on one of the empty plots of land. There's a huge lot laying empty across from the Wynn right next to the railroad tracks. The location of the "Las Vegas Festival Grounds" is also an option. The monorail terminus is a block away, it could then easily be extended to the brightline station. But alas.
Have not been to Town Square in four or five years. We have Downtown Summerlin nearby. From what you show, Town Square is having difficulty retaining quality retailers as indicated by a "Selfie" place, a "smash" place and one of those "escape room" places. Clear indicators of poor quality tenants. As for the examples of the office space tenants, not a surprise but nice that they have offices above. As a retired pilot, have always felt that the location is utterly dangerous and would not be surprised it there was an aviation accident on top of the place. Not to mention the noise and pollution. I think that customers and tenants have realized that. Town Centers opened just prior to the 2008 financial meltdown and never fully recovered. The restaurant scene can be found anywhere else in Las Vegas. All that is great for those who live nearby including the Whole Foods. Next door is the new defunct Fry's Electronics. Downtown Summerlin at least has the baseball stadium and some new apartment complexes as well as Red Rock Resort within walking distance + Macy's and Dillard's as anchor stores. The clock is ticking on Town Center from what your video indicates.
Hey there, Ray. An e-sports center will have different expectations. Maybe a streaming setup or two to broadcast to Twitch, maybe they can host tournaments, they'll probably be running cutting-edge computers better than what you have at home, with headsets ready to go so you can communicate with your team, etc. It's actually a very good social gathering evolution on the arcade for the competitively-minded, because historically arcades were all about getting you addicted and/or angry enough to keep putting in more quarters, and this kind of business usually has a flat rate for the day or per hour to use the space.
I was thinking about Ridge Hill in Yonkers, thank you for spotting it at 18:13. It feels eerie, like you're in some psychological movie. The whole time we were there, my gf and I were pretending to be like humanoid AI bots, going "There is nothing to worry about at Ridge Hill. You are happy at Ridge Hill. Ridge Hill has everything you need."
Whenever I've driven through a dead main street in the mid west, I've always wondered if you could repopulate all the beautiful old buildings with departments from a single company (like Wal Mart) and revitalize it as a lifestyle center? You can recognize what used to be the bank, the drug store, the movie theater, the clothing store, the appliance store, the camera store, the florist, etc. Keep the front facades, dress up the street and sidewalks, put parking moats in the back, and spread parts of Wal Mart all over town.
I lived in Vegas for 7 years and went to Town Square regularly. You go there because it's one of the few areas for locals, and that shows because it's actually not that great. You are still running through traffic and certain sections are too far away from each other to really be "walkable" in the Vegas heat. It looks like it has these really nice restaurants but when you look closer it is the exact same places you see in a mall but in a nicer building. The funnel cake place is popular as well as the potato themed one, but I always just got a pretzel and a tea. Your attitude is spot on and and your grumpy defeatist tone is completely understandable.
Might be worth looking at Mizner Park in Boca Raton. Same concept but it was situated pretty well being next to “downtown” and lots of residential areas (even has some apartments included). Now with Brightline opening the Boca station directly across the street it will even have transit access.
Oddly, despite being open-air, lifestyle centres are just as much of a product of the retreat-from-the-outdoors mindset of the late twentieth century. The rise of car dependent suburbia was accompanied by a complete reimagining of the middle class lifestyle - one where people were expected to actively avoid going outside. Every moment of a person's life would be lived indoors or inside of a private vehicle (that would itself be stored indoors). A lot of the worst land uses are attempts to re-engineer traditional outdoor spaces and activities to better suit the people in cars paradigm. Streetscapes are no longer a place to walk, but a place to be admired while driving past - so footpaths give way to landscaping. Traffic is expected to grow forever, both in volumes and in mode share - so transit agencies emphasize public transit systems that are low capacity and best able to negotiate rising traffic levels (such as buses or infrequent commuter trains). People aren't expected to walk an outdoor main street to see a movie or show - so drive in movies increase in popularity. Even traditional hotels, cabins and lodges give way to motels, where you can go on holiday and park right outside your accommodation. Not to mention drive thru zoos, parkways designed to let you drive through a pleasant natural environment and so on. The town centre is a place that has been re-engineered in this way more than once. Court malls and strip malls are one attempt - albeit an imperfect one that requires you park right outside your destination and then spend a moment in the outdoors (gasp), walking (gasp gasp) a few metres from your car to the shop entrance. Stroads can be viewed as an even more straight forward attempt to adapt the traditional main street format for people who are moving at 80kph in a metal box rather than moving at 5kph on their own two feet. Enclosed shopping malls were perhaps the most successful reimagining of the town centre in this brave new indoor world. You drive there, park (in an enclosed parking structure if you are lucky) and then explore an indoor pedestrianized environment that has a lot of the general vibe of a town centre but without the outdoors. The weakness of this solution is just how much this costs. A single large building with few internal columns to break the illusion. Artificial lighting to simulate daylight. Truly massive HVAC systems. Indoor simulated landscaping that must be expensively replaced every couple of months.. This only made sense if these malls were of a truly giant scale, with hundreds of stores. This worked when all retail was through mall storefronts. As online retailing has supplanted the mall storefront in more and more segments, the cost of operating an enclosed shopping mall has become harder and harder to justify economically. That's where lifestyle centres come from. They are, at their core, just another attempt to re-engineer the traditional main street in a way that suits the people in cars paradigm. They are open air, because this reduces the building maintenance, lighting, HVAC and landscaping costs. They generally have smaller footprints which allows the to focus on the retail segments that can't or won't move fully online (such as personal services, boutique fashion, dining etc). And they ape the aesthetic of a traditional main street because that's the fundamental intent. They suck of course because, despite the open air character, they are still an attempt to reengineer the fundamentally outdoor experience of a walkable town centre for the brave new indoor world of the late twentieth century.
in a lukewarm defence of the CF Shops at Don Mills in Toronto, they are at least somewhat better integrated into the surrounding community compared to the average lifestyle centre, especially the one you described in Vegas.
A great example of a lifestyle center that is bizarre, urbanistically speaking, is Market Street in the Woodlands, TX. There are a few highly expensive apartment blocks nearby to it, but otherwise it’s just like the Vegas Town Square place, in that unless you have a car or an Uber, you can’t get there, especially from far corners of the woodlands, where the bike path network isn’t as developed (frankly, some of the bike paths, like the ones near College Park Dr 242 are right on the side of the highway and I’m too terrified to try and ride there). Great video! And don’t worry, you’ve already convinced most of us of why you are right.
Worse, I think this might even displace real mixed-use urban development in some cases. Back in 2006 or so, I saw "mixed use" added to Oxnard CA's zoning map, and signs for "New Urbanist development" under construction. Then, big-box shells went up, surrounded by stroads and parking lots. Yet another faux-urban lifestyle center. Yes, even a Yard House. I wonder what Oxnard's planning department thinks "mixed use" means.
An interesting variety of the lifestyle center is the city-center lifestyle center. Salt Lake City has two of these (Gateway and City Creek). They don't have the parking moats and interact better with their neighbors since they're downtown, and they have fantastic transit, foot, and bike access, but they suffer from the rest of the problems you brought up. Another flavor of lifestyle center is the transit-adjacent development. Station Park in Farmington, Utah, and Assembly Row in Somerville, Massachusetts, are examples. They are closer to the freeways, have some of the parking moat, and don't interact with their neighbors, but they still have good access by non-car modes. I dislike both of these varieties since I prefer traditional shopping streets, but I guess they're marginally better than the 100% car deserts.
I think the reason SLC is better set up is the size of the blocks. By being so big, they need to fill the inside of the block and thus, have more walking access. I don't live there though, that's just my thought from google earthing it.
I really like your idea of future uses of current mega buildings. Theaters are some of the first that come to mind but also mega churches and mega auto shops also come to mind!
A lifestyle center that might be considered slightly less awful is The Paseo in Pasadena CA. It has just as much parking as any other, but it's all underground (don't even want to think about how expensive that must have been), so it fits much more neatly into the surrounding urban fabric of Pasadena. It also includes some (very pricy) housing
I’ve run into a few of these that aren’t the worst offenders of parking moats/a true stopgap for places figuring out their new urbanist ways. Atlantic Station in Atlanta does a fair job of giving the west side of Midtown its own urban identity, though relying on developers to do that work on an island is its own issue that contributed to everything discussed in this video. Reston Town Center is trying to become VA’s next big thing” on DC’s Silver Line, and has some real potential, especially given Reston’s unique path network/connectivity.
You beat me to the punch. My take on Atlanic Station is quite positive, however, beacuse I remember what stood there not much more that twenty years ago. It was a huge EPA Brownsite where once stood the Atlantic Steel mill. The story of the cleanup, financing, design and development of the project, and it's effect on the city generally is quite interesting.
@@CityNerd Probably the right call for the overall pitch about these things being toxic. I see a parallel conversation at play about the interaction between governments and developers who use Atlantic Stations and Blue Back Squares as earnest attempts to upzone and densify.
Reston was my first experience with these centers and set the bar for me. Lots of apartment buildings and no parking moat. Then I discovered Mosaic which is all that plus supermarkets. Both are a short bus ride (or a half hour walk) to metro stops now. Even Fairfax Corner and Stonebridge which have moats do at least have apartments. I think a promising thing about these centers is that they are not the all the same (like indoor malls were) and they are trying different ways to add urbanization features, some better than others.
Shoutout to The Glen, right by where I live! This video articulated why I enjoy places like that, and Old Orchard mall in Skokie. I found myself enjoying being there and now I see it served as a third space for me
I would definitely be interested in an exploration of movie theatres! I think the transformation from old movie palaces to suburban behemoths could be an interesting case study.
I worked at University Village for seven years, 1994-2001, and had the "pleasure" of witnessing it go from run down strip mall to upscale lifestyle center. I was just listening to this video while doing other things and it was so easy to visualize U Village as you were describing Town Center. And speaking of rules, don't forget that employees aren't allowed to park in the parking moat and must pay big bucks to park on the street on the two hour zone where you have to spend all your breaks moving your car.
The Domain is probably one of the more developed one of these. It's in stage three of expansion (according to wiki) and now has residential and office space. Still way too many parking lots and it seems disconnected. Also the light rail runs just a little too far away for it to be more helpful.
Used to live right by it. It's nice but hard to get around. Somehow still feels like everything is too far away from each other and there aren't really shuttles all over the place. And yes, that light rail is too far. It also ends really early too so it's not very useful for staying out late or for catching up with someone on the fly.
The real soul crushing part of this is that it shows we do know how to build proper urban spaces (I work in commercial construction and been involved in a handful of these) we just don't want to do it in actual urban locations. Here in the DMV area these places are typically called *something* Gateway or *something* Town Center (occasionally spelled Centre for the real authentic experience). Or we come up with funky names that evoke a level of hip urbanism such as "One Loudon" or just "The Boro".
I live in University Place, Wa (fun fact: we don't have an university here) and we are building one of these lifestyle centers on a smaller scale. UP grew up when suburbs were thriving and there really wasn't much of a town center - just a bedroom community. I like that the city is trying to 'put the place in University Place' but it does also feel like we're trying to reverse-engineer a city. I would much rather have our town center than acres upon acres of strip malls. And at least our lifestyle center is in the heart of the city, not at the end of an airport runway surrounded by parking lots. 🤣
We made it to the big house! I kept waiting for this ever since we hit Camp Nou. I hope you keep doing the sub checks still, though. Maybe use motor speedways, as there are plenty with larger capacities than this? If that is too anti-urbanist, perhaps entire cities? You could choose cities around the world each week to do a short showcase of their approach to urbanism.
At 5:33. I've long wondered how these places will age over time. Will these lifestyle centers just dilapidate quickly, to the point where they'll be sad, stucco'ed ruins in about 40 years? These edifices frankly don't seem like the type of architecture that will stand the test of time, like the old-timey town centers from the 19th century that everyone loves.
I agree with you, I don’t see how these lifestyle centers will stand the test of time especially because they probably very cheaply made but I’m guessing about that.
I remember trying to find parking when I was door dashing in Palo Alto, and I've never had so much hate for driving in an area as I've had for Stanford Shopping Center. The vast parking lots are always full on the weekend and I often had to park on the far side of Sand Hill Road just to go to CPK or Nothing Bundt Cakes. Trying to find stuff is impossible when you're actually trying to get somewhere fast, and I often lost my miniscule bonuses just trying to find where this nebulous restaurant is in this fake grid of a town that already has a charming downtown
We have a ton of lifestyle centers in Northern Virginia, but I do feel like they're somewhat more integrated, and almost all of them have a lot of housing, too. Don't get me wrong, the public transit, sidewalk & strode issues are very, very real here. However, places like The Mosaic District, Reston Town Center, and Village at Shirlington feel much less segregated & totalitarian. Of course, they're all still loaded with parking & parking structures, and they're all close to highways/freeways. But they feel more "lived in" and "real" than many I've seen, even though I remember seeing "The Dark Knight" in a movie theater that was where The Mosaic District now stands.
Okay - this one shot to the 'Top 3' among my favorite CityNerd videos. "Stores that.. represent the utter debasement of civilization." 😆 ... so many great one-liners in this one! ..and thank you for intruding me to the 'Smash Room' concept...? My city of Denver has a large, livable grid witihin actual city limits, but you don't have to go far into the 'burbs before stumbling onto these Lifestyle Centers. Not to be confused with neo-urban communities (lifestyle centers w/residential).. which I'm not quite sure how to feel about.. I'll stick with living downtown.
Thanks for this playlist. I watched all 5 videos. It seems that the lifestyle video was most positive for me. I think that lifestyle centres make more sense, if we stretch them out around areas that typically don't lend themselves out to purchasing, like municipal property and parks. If the lifestyle property was in the shape of an 8, with a park in the middle of a loop, and the municipal buildings in the other loop, then we could get a variety of traffic. There would be space for protests, and space to shop, and space to relax.
We are building two of these in my suburb right now. Luckily we do have housing and ped/bike connections planned as part of the development. One thing that resonated with city staff and leadership was "install good quality bike/ped infrastructure so residents don't have to drive there and save the parking spots for people (sales tax $) coming in from out of the area"
Great video!! As a kid, my parents would pack us up every time someone had a birthday and drive an hour and a half to Easton Town Center on the eastside of Columbus OH. We lived in very rural car-centric Ohio and it was really one of my earliest exposures to the idea of walkability. With that said, it was always about consumerism. We went to the AMC 30 for a film, ate at the birthday person's choice (mine was always Cheesecake Factory!), and probably dropped into another couple stores to spend some gift money or run an errand that we couldn't ordinarily run. It's interesting when you call this simulated urbanism, when the things that I consider urbanism are totally lacking. Dense housing, transit access, small well curated grocery stores. But I also understand your point that it is just a taste. I'm sure some of these places even have monorails or trolleys or some kind of sanitized transit system....
You should do a video about Santana Row, San Jose. It was one of the earlier lifestyle centers. It's a very mixed bag. Lots of high end shopping and parking garages but also mixed with apartments on top and offices. Good mix of activities throughout the week and genuinely appealing to walk around. It's next to a rapid bus line but the connectivity is poor.
I like Santana Row, I grew up near it, and frequented there often with family or friends. I agree, pretty pedestrian friendly, but you pretty much have to drive there: 23/523 has good frequency, but VTA doesn't appeal to the typical Santana Row shopper, and it's hard to bike there unless you come in from that Monroe pedestrian bridge over 280.
@@Chappington I remember many times it felt like we spent as much time looking for parking as it did to actually drive there (we were about a 10 minute drive from there)
Having been a planner since the mid-90s and someone who appreciates walkability, I was personally quite excited when lifestyle centers and their more mixed-use version, the town center, started appearing, because it represented such a 180 from the accepted wisdom consumers only wanted unwalkable, completely parking-oriented development and would shun public or quasi-public spaces. I am a Texan so the contrast was especially notable because traditional urban walkable shopping areas had essentially disappeared (except for some neighborhoods totally avoided by Anglo folks with $) from the entire state (maybe the Mexico border downtowns still qualified). So, I will stick up for these developments in that regard - they were a very important element of convincing the real estate market that walkability has some value (to Anglos with $). One of the early ones in TX proved to be highly influential nationally - Southlake Town Square near DFW Airport. Hugely popular, by the early 2000s you just started hearing about it randomly even outside DFW. I don't know if this is phenomenon nationally, but some of these developments in TX have actually incorporated public facilities like libraries and city halls - Southlake did this, as well as Sugar Land. And honestly most of the ones I know about also include residential uses (multifamily and/or townhomes). The Woodlands "downtown" interestingly includes a traditional enclosed mall, an outdoor walkable lifestyle center, and a more strictly urbanist street grid area with a public plaza, plus a regional outdoor music venue and a public park. Even two of the remaining traditional malls in the Houston region have added outdoor walkable annexes, and another one will be doing so soon. All that said, many of these projects still suffer from disconnection to adjacent areas (stroad or freeway borders, parking moats) and too much generic (if upscale) retail / restaurant chains (tbh, I kind of like Yard House though). I notice that the more savvy developers are trying to at least include distinctive regional businesses that you don't see outside the metro or the state, which is a step in the right direction. I know it's a challenge for them because their capital providers want to see "credit tenants" which means chains, not independent local businesses.
At 2:05. Why are the finest of fine dining establishments always The Cheesecake Factory? We have a panoply of other marvelous, delicious options, like California Pizza Kitchen, P.F. Chang's, Red Lobster, Panera Bread, Au Bon Pain, Denny's, etc.
Watching this channel makes me think the US is actually an urbanism dystopia. The pan out of the center to see it surrounded 360° by huge parking lots was actually soul crushing
You are correct
That slow zoom out actually killed me. I didn’t know if I should laugh or cry.
@@bassdrumflextime1253 Thanks for your insightful comment
As it should be
Based on the urbanism dystopia comment, @CityNerd should to either a collaboration or an interview with James Howard Kunstler.
The other problem with a "lifestyle center" as opposed to actually being able to walk out of your home and enjoy a proper city space is that in the real one, your neighbors are also walking around and so you'll see people and shopkeepers etc that you KNOW, but in a "lifestyle center" everyone is likely to be a stranger. If you happen to run into someone you know, it's a miracle! So even though there's a semblance of density it's all still just cold and sterile.
Yeah and there's no housing included. This is no different than a strip mall. I don't know why people would want to go there, maybe they're so starved for normal human infrastructure they take anything.
I do not see that a problem. But then I do not know my neighbors. I like walkable areas where to spend time but not in my own neighborhood. It would be boring if I was limited to the are where I can walk.
@@okaro6595 Oh, I like to walk in new places too, but I also like to walk in places where I run into people I know. Something about it soothes the soul. Plus you never know when you'll need your neighbor, when some emergency comes up, so it's good to take the time to get to know them when you're not in need, if they're willing. Sadly some people are not. It's also rewarding to be able to reciprocate when my neighbor needs something. It's a safety net. There's an old proverb, "Better a neighbor near by than a brother far away."
You need to move away from Vegas ASAP; even the color in your videos is starting to be sapped away by the void of car dependency.
All his videos are becoming all beige
The Vegas things is bizarre, I'm way more ok with cars than he is and I would never in a trillion years spend more than 48 hours in Vegas
I don't see how any urbanist could live in Vegas
@@tylersmith4265 he addresses this
I was gona say something boring like „what happenend to the white balance of your camera?“, but your comment is soooo much better! 😊
I grew up in Vegas. It’s such a strange, artificial place. As a child, I couldn’t go outside all summer because it’s 110 degrees and you can’t go anywhere unless you have a car, and my parents worked a lot. I tried biking to the local grocery store when I was 11 and had to cross this scary, wide stroad (with no crosswalk lights) to get there. I almost got ran over doing that. I left the state as soon as I turned 18.
Much of the heat is due to the urban heat island effect. Folks should demand different developments instead.
Exact same life kids in SoCal high desert have
Where do you live now? As City Nerd said, now in December you can be outside
(in skimpy summer clothes, I say) to eat or do outdoor stuff. Try doing that here
now in Canada where we have a snowstorm coming! And there are "lifestyle centers" here in Canada too.
Even in a so called "have not" province like Nova Scotia.
And the people are complaining that kids are not going outside but staying inside playing videogames or getting radicalized online.
@@michaelrmurphy2734 Humans shouldn't live in a place where they can only be outside in December. Even in Yakutsk people go outside more often.
The absolute worst thing about those places is they still don't get walkability right. Instead of a German Style Walkplatz, most of them still have traffic running through despite the infinite parking around the edges.
I was actually surprised by that too. Where I'm from "entrepreneurs" started investing in open-air malls instead of massive multi-story shopping centers, so I was always thinking the lifestyle centers were the same thing, or the inspiration to my malls. It's mental that even they aren't fully pedestrian. Most places I know have basic wheelchairs at the entrance by the security, and you're free to take one if grandma can't walk far. Bought too much? Wheel your shopping cart to your car and leave it in the collection spot in the parking lot.
I was also surprised by lack of people in the video, though that might be intentionally shot to respect people's privacy. I'd have expected to see a lot of people walking around with a couple of shopping bags, since it's the gift shopping season. This setup still feels incredibly uninviting, I know plenty of arterial streets in my home city with store fronts dotted everywhere and sidewalks wide enough to welcome groups larger than 4.
I could see surface parking used as a placeholder for future expansion, but I would agree that having both an abundance of surface lots and parking structures is a bit overkill.
No no, that’s explicitly by design! These people are in the business of managing parking! They know precisely how useless those “street parking” spaces are!
The reason why those parking spaces are included and why those “main streets” look the way they do is because they are simulating a very particular style of an early 20th century street design, a distinctly American main street! They want to create a specific ambiance - that of an affluent American streetcar suburb that was wealthy enough to have retained its architectural and street design. These places are so expensive these days that the traditional main streets have become a symbol of multigenerational wealth and prosperity.
Basically, these “lifestyle centers” are simulating “money” - a rich neighborhood with traditional, old-timey American retail.
@@TohaBgood2 Thanks for the explanation. I was wondering why these supposedly pedestrian friendly places still dedicate the majority of their space to the 20 cars that drive there each hour.
It's because they want it to look like a town. And no actual town in America has a pedestrian zone lined by commerce. Large cities barely have it. Without roads it would feel more like an outdoor mall, which is a 'negative' stigma the builders want to avoid being associated with.
Could you imagine if we built a bunch of lifestyle centers right next to eachother, that would be crazy
and what if we linked them with some sort of transport that had public access
and build houses in between
Nah. Not crazy. Not “crazy.” /
Imagining a dozen lifestyle centers each surrounded by thousands of empty parking spaces.
They actually are popping up.. especially in Arizona lol
Kierland commons is literally across the street from Scottsdale quarter 😳
I'm surprised that list of life style center rules didn't just say "don't be poor"
Or young. All the rules restricting kids and teenagers having fun is ridiculous. If you read further down, they will kick out kids who are there during school hours. And of course, they reserve the right to kick out "juveniles" if there are too many of them in one spot. This place is for the old, rich boomers, you whippersnappers!!!
How do you lot think that these types of places work in walkable cities in Europe? It’s exactly the same! The gendarmes, or the carabinieri, or the polizei are constantly patrolling those public spaces in pairs and enforcing the exact same type of ruleset!
I’m sorry, but this suburban American idea that public spaces can just “exist” with zero enforcement except a patrol car passing through every three days is complete boomer nonsense! 80 years of suburban car dependency in the US have made us completely forget how public spaces work, but this exactly how things always were!
Yes, public spaces are extremely vulnerable to a small percentage of the population misbehaving and trashing the place. You need pretty intense on-foot enforcement (or the threat of enforcement) to keep these types places clean and inviting to everyone. You can see what happens to this European-style walkability without European-style policing in places like San Francisco! It degrades into a mess of endless security guards, “ambassadors”, and private cops! Or there’s just pure mayhem without the specialized security.
Yes, the draconian rules posted in this particular mall are ridiculous and clearly discriminatory. But that is just because they don’t want to spend too much money on enforcement and are cranking up “the threat of enforcement” instead. In reality, you still need to choose some mix of these two to make a public space work. That’s just how large groups of people function. It’s not optional!
@@Luboman411 well actually when children are somewhere they should not be during school hours then they should be maybe not kicked out but the school should be called and the parents.
@@TohaBgood2 I've lived in Spain and the U.S. for large parts of my life and there is a huge difference in police presence. In Spain you forget the police exist and hearing sirens is rare despite having waaaaay higher density than anywhere I've lived in the U.S. In crowded pedestrian streets with like 3,000 people crammed into a strip smaller than a Walmart you might see a cop on a bike somewhere, if at all, and nothing happens. People are drinking too, but I've never seen a fight, theft, etc. Meanwhile in the U.S. people and places are spread sooooo far apart, there's cops patrolling everywhere all the time, and drinking outside is illegal, yet there are more problems. I don't know enough to explain why these differences exist, probably several factors. If I had to guess it's mostly the social conditioning of the population combined with high poverty, high stress, and isolation leading to behavioral problems. But mainly I wanted to refute the claim that towns and cities and Europe work thanks to heavyhanded policing.
@@Luboman411 why shouldn’t they ? Kids are supposed to be in school during school hours
As a teen that struggled to find somewhere to exist without having to pay money, I am furious at that code of conduct. As an adult, even if they are noisy or disruptive, I love seeing teens out enjoying a downtown area. I love that peek into what their world is like.
it's all about the money...
I hate how teens are demonized, even in spaces where they could be paying customers. There's a movie theater in my city that banned unaccompanied teens, and I just don't understand why we as a society take away all the fun things that they should be able to do in public in favor of pushing them to stay inside and out of sight.
Out here in SoCal, all-out brawls between groups of teens in public spaces are far from an uncommon situation. There was one just a few days ago in Torrance, with supposedly over 1000 participants. If unaccompanied minors want the freedom to hang out in large groups in public spaces, they need to start self-policing. Do you think places like this want fewer patrons buying things? Of course not, but they also don't want random brawls breaking out.
These are great because they can bring a lot of stores into your residential neighborhoods. Plus, they bring in more tax revenue for your cities. It's getting more jobs and fantastic stores into your town without bringing in more residents who will compete against you and your family. These should help boost nearby neighborhoods' property values as people like to go and walk around for shopping occasionally. Could you build a substantial regional park next to one of these to pull in people from the other side of the city or nearby cities? ... I think so, make sure to build second-floor office space and a gym to make sure you provide enough economic energy that the locals would enjoy and help get approved.
How many hundred years ago were you young and in what location? Vegas has a high teen violent crime rate and stores don't exclude them without reason.
Based on your video, I looked up the nearest lifestyle center near me in Chicago. It turns out there is one a mere 24.2 miles away by car which would take 32 minutes. Not owning a car, it would take 2 hours to get there by public transport, or 2 hours 20 minutes by bike. I prefer a 15 minute walk to a real urban equivalent.
Thanks for the consistent reinforcement that walkable urban environments are to be treasured.
The answer to all of CN's issues is: density. In modern times it only occurs in epicenter cities.
If you're in a big city why would they build a lifestyle center there? You have the real thing, you don't need one. Of course it's gonna be a 30 minute drive, it's not for you guys
Lifestyle centers are for us who *don't* want to live in a big city, but still like having some level of urbanism in our lives, when we want a night on the town.
Is it the Glen in Glenview? That place gives me the "lifestyle center" vibe.
@@CSDragon it’s like near beer,though. Why bother?
@@manmasher what? What does beer have anything to do with anything
I noticed that the grocery stores we’re so used to are a form of simulated urbanism also, even to the point of having fake store fronts or awnings over different sections of the store. Where in the past, you’d have to go to the butcher, the pharmacist, the produce farmer, etc., and ideally it’d be all within a walkable town center. Now most modern grocery stores have come to the create an appearance and convenience of a town center.
I always knew I enjoyed those stores but didn’t realize it was simulated urbanism, wow
This hits so personally. The grove was a great place to be when I was in LA. And the city I live in now, Irvine, is famous for its Spectrum lifestyle center. It is a symptom of a larger problem, but it sure beats walking through a power center parking lot.
Yeah it's what people want but not the real deal and not at home.
From Santa Ana. Yeah these lifestyle centers like the Irvine Spectrum really have this artificial feel. It just being there to shop lacks the walkable feeling of being in a neighborhood in say New York
A lifestyle center that works is Glendale, California's Americana. It seems to integrate well int to the downtown and it compliments the adjacent mall.
lmfao, a plane every so seconds. what a waste of money.
Haven't been to the Spectrum, but it not only has a Yard House and a PF Chang's, but it has a Cheesecake Factory too! It just doesn't get better than that
End of an era for sub stadium counts! I hope you keep it up with walkable cities as you approach 1M subs, could really show off that walkable places don't need to be 1M+ populated (especially in North America)
“If you want to find a lifestyle center just look for a Yard House.” Me trying it for locations near me “Oh, there they are!”
When I first started watching this video, I was like "oh yeah like City Centre in Houston or the Domain in Austin or the ones in San Antonio or DFW" and then he said yardhouse and I realized I've been to two of those Yard Houses.
Lol there's only one YardHouse in my area and yes it's in a quasi big box semi life style center strip mall on a stroad (perhaps the most hated thoroughfare in the area lol). However it's actually not very "lifestyle center"-esque. It's not that fancy but maybe that's because a few miles away there's one of the best downtowns in the country.
It would be cool to see a list of 'salvageable' car-oriented areas. Like, if the street layout isn't terrible, if the area is adjacent to bike or transit routes, or if the layout would allow for parking lots to eventually be transitioned into something useful, or if it isn't too far from real downtown/urban areas, there is hope for it. As you're exploring google maps for other projects, you could note certain locations as 'hope' or 'no hope', and then use that list to demonstrate the factors you think make it possible to improve a currently-bad setting into a habitable one.
What you've described is basically the urban core of every US city that had a sizeable population by the turn of the 20th century. These places are now mostly car-dependent hellholes, but the shadow of car-free design is still there as it was inherent to their settling and expansion of those cities in the first place.
Newer urban developments, on the other hand, I'm afraid are going to be impossibly hard to salvage. I'm looking at you, the majority of the southwest US.
Wow! Pure madness! Props for biking that far to get those footage for us
Ya sure he didn't take a bus most of the way?
I embrace the insanity
played with Google Maps a bit and "just search for Yard House" is a shockingly accurate cheat code for finding lifestyle centers. Holy cow.
"Cheesecake Factory surrealist maximalism" is now my aesthetic.
This should be in the dictionary along with "Paradigm" and "Dang Gummit"
I've always wanted a term just for their look
I'm more about that P.F. Chang's oriental theme park myself.
I can't believe you did this on a Vegas lifestyle center and didn't even mention Downtown Summerlin, where they literally built a shopping center and designated it as the "downtown" of their master-planned (yet car-centric) community.
Oh, and escape rooms are the Spirit Halloween of the late 2010s-early 2020s - a tip-off that a property owner can no longer get full rent for that space.
What a strange new world of urban design, a car centric downtown circled by car parking which is surrounded by gated communities...
Thanks for pointing this out. It has an interesting circular downtown layout but it is mostly a parking lot, maybe only a slightly-improved suburb. What is the closest transit connection to it? Do buses enter the subdivision?
So more like "escape (bad-planning decisions) rooms".
@@kms1.62 You might be thinking of that weird center-ish area with the circular streets that seems to be a cluster of medical and legal business parks centered around a library. (The town council actually meets at a community center in a park in the middle of a development.) DT Summerlin is south of the Red Rock - the one positive is that there was undeveloped land around the lifestyle center, on which the new ballpark and Golden Knights training arena were recently built. It's served by a couple of buses, including the "Sahara Express" (which has a pretty crazy number of stops for something called an "Express").
Seeing footage of Cheesecake Factory inspires me to open a lifestyle center that's nothing but different architectural theming designs of a Cheesecake Factory (we just need to persuade them to come to the DPRK). As the biggest fan of cheese, Cheesecake Factory is the peak of society. Sure they're weird with their dictionary-sized menus, but that's what makes them stand out. The first restaurant opened in 1978 in Beverly Hills, and the rest is history.
20 Cheesecake Factories each with a majestic statue of the Supreme Leader welcoming patrons.
Said the Wisconsonite.
Don't let the name fool you, it only gives you the illusion of efficiency.
I was confused when I read "DPRK," then I saw your username and now it all makes sense.
@@lifeinhd4053 DPRK = the anything-but-democratic, anything-but-people's, anything-but-a-republic of North Korea.
that zoom-out shot for the parking just shattered the facade, fantastic editing
did the lighting in your home change?
“The ultimate debasement of civilization” had me rolling on the floor in painful laughter!😂😂
Im so glad more people are starting to realize how truly awful lifestyle centers are for urbanism. Lifestyle centers are atrocious car-centric developments and are perfect examples of faux or simulated urbanism… it’s so sad that the US emulates walkable places for commercial zones rather than actually changing zoning laws for real mixed-use pedestrian oriented developments
Im so glad more people are starting to realize how truly awful lifestyle centers are for urbanism."
They arent. They just tick off people that think that suburban places should not have them....because it offends their sensibilities
>Lifestyle centers are atrocious car-centric developments and are perfect examples of faux or simulated urbanism
"simulated urbanism" isnt a thing. Is "real urbanism" only something that can exist in approved places? These people are starting from scratch, but they arent allowed to because as long as they still accommodate the reality of cars, then they should just build more enclosed malls?
>it’s so sad that the US emulates walkable places for commercial zones rather than actually changing zoning laws for real mixed-use pedestrian oriented developments
Changing a zoning law isnt going to result in old town Countrytime Lemonade main streets to just pop up. There isnt some massive pent-up demand for this stuff or else in cities with those different zoning laws would be full of construction.
And if you did change them, it would take DECADES to develop the places you rather walk through, as the "real thing" took that long to do it organically in the past.
@@WillmobilePlus you’re saying there’s not some massive pent-up demand for a real walkable city etc. but there IS or they wouldn’t be thousands watching this video!!!!
@@WillmobilePlus It would NOT necessarily take decades !!!!! to develop places to be more walkable and have a real town center as it did in the past since people have more modern technology to develop things along with computers and machines plus if people really want to get a thing done it can sometimes really get done quickly.
@@enjoyslearningandtravel7957 Ok? Thousands of people watching a video =/= anything to a builder that needs to secure funding and a developer that wont get it these days without a tenant lined-up.
>It would NOT necessarily take decades !!!!!
It will certainly take at least 20 years to rehab a traditional shopping district of a decent number of buildings. I live by one. The first rehab was back in around 2001, and 22 years later there are just starting on the two last bordered-up structures. There are STILL a couple of places that need rehabbing, and significant parcels that need something built on them. And this is an area my city touts in promotional material and is very popular.
Starting from scratch? You are looking at 2x that
> to develop places to be more walkable and have a real town center as it did in the past since people have more modern technology to develop things along with computers and machines plus if people really want to get a thing done it can sometimes really get done quickly.
Uh.....no. That's not remotely a factor. I WISH it was, but a fast computer and power tools isnt making this quicker.
The ironic part is downtown Las Vegas actually seemed pretty nice when I was there a year ago, though very small for a "downtown". Relatively walkable and some great breweries. Though a stroad wasteland stands between it and the strip which I guess I should have expected.
I commented somewhere else pretty much the same experience. Carson to Charlston wasn't bad. Loved all the public art. Fremont is touristy, but very walkable with tons of great restaurants and people watching. If I was a local, I'd still walk up there a lot.
I hope you saw the place, in the downtown area, called HEART ATTACK GRILL, where it states, in neon letters, that if you weigh over 350 pounds, you eat for free. Nothing says 'Merica quite like that does!
Probably cause it was built just before the whole “suburban car boom”
"And only the finest of fine dining establishments" proceeds to show a Cheesecake Factory...I love how Cheesecake Factory is a running thing on this channel. Gordon Ramsay used to have a restaurant at The Grove called The Fat Cow, and it didn't even last two years because of a Spanish restaurant in FL that had exclusive rights over the name and that Spanish restaurant owner said to either close or change the name.
It ended up closing, and then Gordon was sued not just by his business partner for the Fat Cow for 10 million for deliberately mismanaging the trademark problem, but also The Grove landlord sued Gordon for 6 million in unpaid rent on a lease of 52K a month. Though I like to think it closed because Gordon couldn't handle the power of the Cheesecake Factory, as he didn't have the lamb sauce yet on his side.
These are basically traditional shopping malls with the exterior walls removed. Definitely trendy in places with year-round summer only.
I wish that were true, but I can tell you that up here in Canada they are also being built in far too great a number. Seems like no one has thought out very well what a pain they are when it's 30 below. Although one of the new ones rear me did just open up a skating rink. Ffs.
Quartier Dix30 and Centropolis are both right next to Montreal, Quebec, Canada. They are not typical of year-yound summer areas, they are typical of North America.
At least it indicates the pent-up demand for traditional urbanist neighbourhoods. It’s not as if Vegas has any genuine ones (that are geared to locals and not only tourists), so it it weren’t for faux urbanism, Vegas would have no urbanism at all. Smash rooms were news to me, too.
I think the area south of Fremont Street Experience is coming up. The arts district has a lot of shops and restaurants mixed with low and mid rise residential. I worked up there a few weeks in September for Life is Beautiful and was riding my bike from the venue around to the south entrance at the Nugget, on Bidger, and as soon as I got off Fremont it felt like it was all locals in those neighborhoods. Lots of people on foot and bikes, busses, etc. Carson to Charleston, basically.
A city where all the nice spaces are geared principally to tourists is typically a pretty miserable place to live. Either you end up in the outskirts built on the cheap within the last couple decades or you live surrounded by tourists, have trouble finding basic amenities in between the tourist shops, and pay a premium for everything.
@@traveller23e In Vegas, pretty much everyone lives in the “outskirts” of the strip. There’s not really any housing on the strip (other than downtown Vegas cause it’s old). It makes the traffic horrible cause so many people commuting towards the Strip for work and what not.
The fact that all of these are on private land is a great point. These spaces don't actually belong to the communities they are located in.
Well, Town Square does have a solid planespotting location going for it at least. Find it interesting at 3:56 that Korean Air has a flight to Vegas from Incheon. I didn't know Vegas was that popular with Koreans, considering that Macau is a much closer gambling city.
The design of the Vegas Strip is so influential that the late Sheldon Adelson used land reclamation to connect the Macanese islands of Coloane and Taipa to form a new Vegas-style strip called the Cotai Strip and this is where his Las Vegas Sands corporation built what was then the world's biggest casino at the Venetian Macau (this record is now held by WinStar World in Oklahoma). This Cotai Strip actually helped Macau become even richer than Vegas (ironically) and among the richest in the world, despite Macau's very small area. Macau is in the process of building a big LRT system with different lines that will connect every part of it, including a line going to Hengqin in the Mainland. Macau's progress is incredible.
Good stuff! I was pretty shocked to see the Korean Air flight land on 1L instead of 26L -- 26L is where the big long haul flights land!
@@CityNerd Well it depends on wind direction
Honestly, if you're *gonna* build a gigantic pile of surface parking and retail, I can think of worse places to do it than wedging it in between a highway interchange and an airport runway.
@@foamyesque In Canada it seems common to build these places, called outlet malls, near airports where space is cheaper because it's in the airport development area. They also want all highway and air travelers possible.
I befriended a few Koreans a while back. They both adored Vegas and really wanted to visit. The way they described the strip made it seem like some other-worldly paradise.
Granted, Las Vegas is cool and all, but I guess there's some sort of international appeal that Americans, especially those who live in or near the area, just wouldn't have considered.
I have family in Vegas and have been to town square many times- this video is 100% accurate, and the sad thing is, it’s one of the few pleasant places to walk around. Another challenge with Vegas and bike and pedestrian friendly culture is that it’s just unbearable to be outside much at all in the summer months.
Man, those "trolley tracks" are incredible
Dear citynerd, I always thought that I lived in the greatest place on earth, maybe the most urban place in the country, Manhattan, and your channel evidenced my thoughts ever since I started watching it, but I have to tell you, that this video has proved, without a doubt, that living here is just so extraordinary.
No maybe about it - Manhattan IS the most urban place in the country.
His contents lately are becoming pointless.. Hes whining like jobless to make himself feel better and then he will deny hes a hater 🤪🤪
I looked up yard house and over half of them were in Lifestyle Centers.
They have pretty decent food, tbf.
@@jesot Nashville hot chicken sandwich with extra spicy slaw is banging 🤤
@@jesot The food is indeed good and they are usually very liberal in their sampling policy to the point I can drink 5 2oz. cups for free before committing.
Video suggestion 1: How are cemeteries perceived in urban design? Are they unmovable structures, forever placed around our growing cities or is it possible to relocate them and repurpose the land? I respect the dead but there's a finite amount of land for both the dead and the living and as both sides are continuing to grow in numbers, I find it somewhat weird to keep that land locked like that. A few examples that come to mind are Green-wood cemetery, Washington cemetery, Holy Cross cemetery, and a bunch of other cemeteries in NYC.
Video suggestion 2: What is an appropriate amount of green space that a city/a city block should have? What can the city/community do to increase that space? This doesn't have to be only dedicated space like parks but also trees and bushes on the street. On a related note, why are some central plazas completely devoid of trees?
Video suggestion 3: What are some ways the local community can advocate for more human-oriented design? What are some resources that we use to get informed about current plans and influence decision making?
Topic Ideas: I would love to see your take on movie theaters...especially the non-multiplexes in walkable areas. I've lived in neighborhoods with these theaters in NYC and Cincinnati, and it's at the top of my list for the type of establishment I want in my neighborhood. But will they survive the COVID and Netflix era?
Also, your description of "hyper car-oriented infrastructure" hit home...and I'd love to see a bottom 10 video of absurd, overbuilt car infrastructure. (Wait, did I just describe every City Nerd video?)
City Nerd's outlook on historical, non-multiplex theaters is the kind of content I need and didn't know was available.
Sadly a lot of these have fallen by the wayside recently at least where I am in Seattle: Guild 45th, Harvard Exit, Seven Gables, among others. The company that ran some of these did a poor job keeping them up and the movie offerings weren't unique enough. Meanwhile the Uptown and Egyptian theaters in the urban core of Seattle are part of SIFF (non-profit indie organization / film festival) and those venues have seemingly done well by offering an eclectic offering of movies and special events. It would be interesting to see a deep dive on this for sure
@@seattlesharksfan Movies in Seattle are expensive, here on Vashon it is $10, but in the city it goes up for like $15+. During covid when drive-ins were the only way of seeing movies in the theater, we had $20 a car here on Vashon, but my friends reported like $40-$50 a car. By the way the theater here on the island is doing fine, and is kind of an amazing theater. Shows the occasional old movies, sells coffee and beer, basic seats, no gimmicks, quiet audience, etc.
@@rokksula4082 Drive-in theatres seemed to be the only car-centric businesses that largely did not stick around in the era of making everything car-centric
They used to be so much more important. The Hollywood neighborhood in Portland is named after the theater; I imagine the Grand Lake neighborhood in Oakland predates the theater of the same name, but who knows? It does feel like the centerpiece of that neighborhood!
Yeah, Santana Row in San Jose is probably one of the better examples. People actually live there in apartments above the businesses. Its parking is all in structures. It used to have a surface lot but that's been built over now. It has bus routes running right beside it, although they're on stroads. There is some high density development filling in nearby within walking distance, and there is a half-hearted attempt to provide biking infra (exposed bike lanes, which could be segregated later). Valley Fair is an older style indoor mall across the stroad, and it's actually thriving. They instituted parking charges recently for anyone staying longer than two hours, which provoked the usual outrage online but the place seems to be as busy as ever. Santana Row's parking remains free, and I could see charges coming in eventually if it gets oversubscribed. There's also plenty of nearby strip mallage that can be filled in now that SJ has abolished mandatory parking minimums.
It's also next to Stevens Creek Boulevard. It has a rapid bus route with signal priority and the corridor is being studied for rapid transit. The 60 Winchester bus also goes to the airport and BART
Sometimes there are protests/demonstrations near the intersection of the 2 major stroads there, especially along the pedestrian right-of-way abutting Santana Row - which contributes to my sense that Santana Row feels like a more genuine urban space, less of a simulacrum than the Las Vegas center in the video. There are also a number of small businesses, small medical practices, and residential neighborhoods nearby.
As a European, this is so interesting. The picture of the life style center surrounded by a parking lot is wild.
The only thing similar to this I have seen here in Italy is called "Outlet Village", next to the "Mantova Sud" exit of tolled highway A22.
There are restaurants and all kinds of clothing brands, surrounded by a large parking lot. No smashing of fax machines though...
I've had a lifelong allergy to lifestyle centers. Maybe it's because I'm a minimalist or maybe it's because I grew up near Disneyland and am suspicious of anyplace that gives off even a slight whiff of Disney vibes.
I have heard them nicknamed "disney downtowns" for this reason
They built one of these fairly recently near where I live here in Torrance, adjacent to the Del Amo fashion center. It's modest, by lifestyle center standards and features more down-to-earth stores like Old Navy. I actually wouldn't mind it except for the fact that they insist on piping loud music over a sound system to force a festive atmosphere which just makes me want to run screaming to the nearest library.
But...it's the happiest place on earth. Don't you like happiness?
Another example of a not-terrible lifestyle center is Broadway Plaza in Walnut Creek, CA. Sure one side of it is an absolutely monstrous parking garage, but the other sides open up well into the "traditional" downtown to the west and north. It also does a good job focusing on retail, such that the traditional downtown restaurants are not as threatened. Plus, there is a Cheesecake Factory!
It’s beautiful over there
I would disagree with you on Broadway Plaza being a "lifestyle center". I grew up near there. Most of buildings that make up Plaza have been there for decades. There was some construction to unify the look of the place. But, it is really how Walnut Creek's downtown over time. The parking garage isn't that bad. It is kind of hidden. You have to drive out there because the "County Connection" sucks.
The Domain and the area around it in Austin is a really interesting Lifestyle Center. Started out as a simple Simon outdoor mall and has exploded into basically Austin's uptown. 300-400ft office and residential towers are now going up pretty regularly and its even home to Austin FC's stadium now!
Yup! Can't wait to see its rival finish being built on Parmer, though the surrounding land use isn't as good (literally empty).
@@lifeinhd4053 did you see the plans that just came out for the Pickle research campus just south of the domain? Pretty exciting development!
@@dilliam1702 I did not! And everything I'm finding is from 2019 or before. Got a link?
I live in the Domain. Super weird lifestyle center. South of Dick's Sporting Goods is a ghost town.
I’m ready to hear about the fine dining options.
One of my definitions for a real town center is that you can have art festivals there by local artist or autumn festivals with food stands for local people‘s and I don’t think they can have these things in high end lifestyle centers. At least not often because it would block the shoppers from their high-end businesses. Also very important to me I noticed when I was walking in a real town center where are used to live in the outer suburbs but I could take the street car down or bicycle and I could often run into one of my friends or acquaintances while was doing my errands and then we would stop for coffee or a drink or even a meal.
I think another good indicator is when more than 80% of the stores and restaurants are locally owned, one of a kind places. Very few or no chain stores or franchises.
Most lifestyle centers in Vegas have some farmers market like once a week. Still hate having to drive to them tho
the ala moana mall in honolulu was horrifying… the facade on both sides are parking garages. the pedestrian entrance and a number of storefronts are inside the parking dungeon. took me 20+ minutes to figure out how to get to the ped entrance the garage from a bus stop a couple blocks away. hawaiian cities are in largely in a flat, beautiful environment with good weather that is difficult to export cars to. it should be an paradise of transit walkability and bikeability. but it’s inexplicably designed around cars
The bad urbanism in Hawai'i makes more sense when you realize it's just Japan's outlet mall.
Best food court I’ve ever been to and like 5 minutes from the beach though.
Not inexplicable. Built up as part of the US, and par for the course.
@@mattchtx 5 minutes for who? the beach is also cut off by a 6 lane stroad and it actually took me 20 minutes to get inside the “lifestyle center” from outside
Literally the only TH-cam channel where I drop what im doing to watch
These places are akin to a Disneyland for shoppers. Building fake, very kitsch downtowns where there are no towns is just emblematic of how superficial life has become in the US.
I agree and this fake city center has no groceries or stores that are not high-end to shop for clothes and other items.
For most of the video, I was thinking "this is a cute corporate fantasy urbanism" and I didn't hate it. And then you showed the aerial image and I gasped. America has indeed paved over paradise and put up a cheap imitation. Hideous.
Unfortunately, I think you hit the nail on the head when you discuss the fact that lifestyle centers are private developments without public spaces and the rights which come with public space. For some reason, I imagine that the same people who shop in lifestyle centers live in gated communities with uber-restrictive HOAs. Anything to avoid having to deal with the riff-raff
Riff-raff is getting bad in many places.
@ghost mall yeah bro, keep feeling sorry for people who hate you and want to ruin your day at all costs. And I will keep walking around in places where I don't get screamed at.
Ironically, some of the most walkable towns and cities are found in the Post Soviet Eastern Europe. People didn't get to buy a Trabant or a Lada until late in life. Gradski transport consisted of buses period. When arrving in Burgas, in the Spring of 2000, I was amazed how far Daniela would routinely walk from her flat to work each day. But buses ran everywhere and there was an intracity train system on the par with that of Tamil Nadu, South India in 1985.
As bad as that Town Square in Vegas is, at least it's a great location for planespotting. Yeah I wouldn't count that place in Germantown, TN as a lifestyle center, that's nothing more than a typical suburban strip mall. Something interesting I found about Germantown is regarding its name. It isn't called that because of the German families who settled there (that part is purely coincidence), but rather because of the town lots that were laid out in 1834 by surveyor N. T. German, and Germantown became its name in 1836. Before that, it was called Pea Ridge. But during WWI as a result of anti-German sentiment, the city temporarily changed its name to Neshoba, which in Chickasaw means "wolf".
9:29 I didn't expect to hear this on this channel, but you are absolutely correct. I definitely the think the pursuit of e-sports has ruined online gaming and probably worsened videogame addiction.
Hi CityNerd!
I recently moved from Portland, OR to Peoria, IL and I feel like it was probably a similar step backward in walkability as you moving to Henderson lol.
What in God's name are you doing over there LOL
As a Peoria native I recommend staying away from East Peoria and the North part of town, Peoria has much better bones than most Southwestern cities but a lot of that has been neglected sadly, Peoria Heights is doing a lot of good work when it comes to housing access (replacing a free-standing subway with condos). The warehouse district, West Bluff, Peoria Heights, and downtown are nice areas to walk around as well, though downtown could be a bit livelier.
@@ivy_47 Affordable housing is readily available and its an old growth city. Its not perfect but it has a lot of potential.
@@oryender6895 Well, Ive found the same while in Normal. Our college apartment was 700/month for 4 bedrooms, and my roommates are still there enjoying the price. It's merely 3 blocks away from the walkable downtown ("uptown") and Amtrak/bus station!
@@ivy_47 We're working on that Amtrak access, we have a former Transportation Secretary on our side, and there are some nice walkable neighborhoods, West Bluff, Peoria heights, the warehouse district and downtown are good areas of Peoria.
Watching the past year of this channel has just been City Nerd slamming my hometown suburb of Henderson. I love it
I went to Tivoli village near Summerlin. It’s odd having such a walkable and quaint feeling area that’s just surrounded by stroads and the summerlin parkway. If you haven’t checked it out you really should. It is interesting.
The Country Club Plaza was built in Kansas City, Missouri in 1923, just as the automobile was really becoming king and the federal highway system numbering was in the offing. US 50, which now runs in the southern part of the city, used to go right along the south edge of the shopping area, about six miles north of where it runs now. It was inspired by Seville, Spain. Though it’s much older than the 90s and 00s built lifestyle centers scattered in Kansas City, it was foreshadowing.
The one lifestyle center that defines the category for me, and even suggests how these spaces could develop over the long run, is Downtown Santa Monica's Third Street Promenade - it is, in fact, successful at being a downtown, by LA standards. It's walkable, has transport connections, blends into the street grid and is near the city's beachfront attractions. But I was weirded out by just how many major retail chains they managed to consolidate in one space - it's built far bigger than an ordinary shopping street and probably compares best to some of the classic shopping arcades, or perhaps the shotengai in Osaka for a still-active contemporary example. It's managed by "Downtown Santa Monica, inc." in a public-private partnership which is telling of how much the developers are calling the shots.
Santa Monica Promenade predates lifestyle centers according to Google and I wouldn’t consider it as such. It would indeed be nice if these lifestyle centers did turn into something like Santa Monica promenade by adding nearby high density dwellings.
It’s such a cool place to hang out along with its pier.
Santa Monica's Third Street Promenade doesn't qualify as a lifestyle center. The Grove at Farmers Market does meet that criteria. While I find it generally synthetic, I personally believe it to be somewhat of a "success". Perhaps, because it anchored by a well loved LA food and tourist destination---the Farmers Market @ Third & Fairfax. It's also part of a specific area In Los Angeles that could really use just this type of added shopping option.
Suggest coming to Cincinnati. Cincinnati is a good place to be from March to October. Lots of festivals and free concerts, outdoor restaurants. Cincinnati is very hilly so its a test for biking and walking some places.
From Cincinnati you can also do videos from Louisville Kentucky Derby and Indy 500. Also easy to get to Dayton outdoor concerts, Lexington, Columbus, Cleveland, Detroit, South Bend IN, St Joseph/Benton Harbor Michigan Beaches.
The name alone fills me with dread... The simulated urbanism videos are fascinating to me nonetheless.
Also, do you use sunlight to light your videos?
I work in Town Square, walking to that Tacos El Gordo at the 12 minute mark is scary. All the people driving to the lifestyle center to walk around don't really look out for pedestrians.
I am surprised you didn't mention Easton Town Center in Columbus, OH. Les Wexner was behind it and pretty much kicked off this Lifestyle Center craze. Then again, they are constantly evolving the place with expansions which may be unlike the other Lifestyle Centers.
Easton was the first place I thought of when I was watching this video. Been to Columbus pretty frequently since 2000 and the growth and repurposing of the space has been interesting for sure
Same here I did a ctl+f looking for the Easton comment. Polaris was built only a few years later about 10 miles away as a traditional mall and they scrambled to build an outdoor lifestyle area tacked onto one side of the mall to compete.
@@TheRetarp That's right. They tore down the Kaufmann's building and replaced it with a Promenade with the only thing note worthy is the Barnes & Nobles.
I remember when Easton opened and I was in high school. Everyone wanted to go there except me who thought it was horrifying. Then I ended up living down the stroad and working in retail hell for 4 years...
I have been to Town Square many times since I live two miles away and it is the closest thing to a town center "third place" for me.
There are some upsides though. It has proven that you can make non-residential areas pretty close to single family homes since they look compatible and have a good amount of detaisl. It also shows the desire for traditional areas. There are also plenty of downsides not mentioned here. The quality of exterior materials should improve and of course it is pretty isolated from other uses especially residential. Same with other lifestyle centers.
The reason why these areas are largely privately owned and managed it is due to the fact that the Las Vegas area has not so efficient local government. The site is governed by Clark County just like 40% of the valley so more authority goes large companies and HOA's. This instead of having more compact cities that can manage public streets, safety, shared spaces better where there aren't any cities less than 100,000 folks in the valley. Also due to the large numbers of low life types (thanks to demographic change), the private entity can easily escorts them out.
Topic Idea: Not sure if it's that interesting, but I'm interested in the ways underground parking impacts urban fabric. Incentivizing driving vs saving street space, cost, potential other uses of underground space (???).
Or just a top 10 about cities with most underground parking, ;).
At least with underground parking, it is out of the way. One issue i think would be maintenance, plus the ramps needed to access the parking deck.
Not Just Bikes just had a piece about this in his newest video.The TL;DW is that while it makes the streetscape better it encourages driving and is extremely costly to build.
I for the life of me do not understand why Brightline chose that location for their station. It's not in walking distance from the strip...
A monorail extension would be 100% necessary.
The thing is there is a rail line in a ditch right behind the strip that is largely grade-seperated from the roads! The viaducts and alignment seem wide enough for a Brightline-dedicated third track. If no third track, then surely they could come to a lease agreement with the railroad owner. All they then would have to do is build rail spurs and a terminal station on one of the empty plots of land. There's a huge lot laying empty across from the Wynn right next to the railroad tracks. The location of the "Las Vegas Festival Grounds" is also an option. The monorail terminus is a block away, it could then easily be extended to the brightline station.
But alas.
The number of planes is breathtaking
Yeah I don’t think it’s very relaxing to eat outside alfresco with planes coming every minute or less unless you’re a train spotter.
I meant to write unless you a plane spotter
Have not been to Town Square in four or five years. We have Downtown Summerlin nearby. From what you show, Town Square is having difficulty retaining quality retailers as indicated by a "Selfie" place, a "smash" place and one of those "escape room" places. Clear indicators of poor quality tenants. As for the examples of the office space tenants, not a surprise but nice that they have offices above. As a retired pilot, have always felt that the location is utterly dangerous and would not be surprised it there was an aviation accident on top of the place. Not to mention the noise and pollution. I think that customers and tenants have realized that. Town Centers opened just prior to the 2008 financial meltdown and never fully recovered. The restaurant scene can be found anywhere else in Las Vegas. All that is great for those who live nearby including the Whole Foods. Next door is the new defunct Fry's Electronics. Downtown Summerlin at least has the baseball stadium and some new apartment complexes as well as Red Rock Resort within walking distance + Macy's and Dillard's as anchor stores. The clock is ticking on Town Center from what your video indicates.
Hey there, Ray. An e-sports center will have different expectations. Maybe a streaming setup or two to broadcast to Twitch, maybe they can host tournaments, they'll probably be running cutting-edge computers better than what you have at home, with headsets ready to go so you can communicate with your team, etc. It's actually a very good social gathering evolution on the arcade for the competitively-minded, because historically arcades were all about getting you addicted and/or angry enough to keep putting in more quarters, and this kind of business usually has a flat rate for the day or per hour to use the space.
But...but...do they have Crazy Taxi??
J/K thanks for the explanation. I do love co-op gaming, so I can't hate.
Sounds like the evolution of the cyber cafe
I was thinking about Ridge Hill in Yonkers, thank you for spotting it at 18:13. It feels eerie, like you're in some psychological movie. The whole time we were there, my gf and I were pretending to be like humanoid AI bots, going "There is nothing to worry about at Ridge Hill. You are happy at Ridge Hill. Ridge Hill has everything you need."
Whenever I've driven through a dead main street in the mid west, I've always wondered if you could repopulate all the beautiful old buildings with departments from a single company (like Wal Mart) and revitalize it as a lifestyle center? You can recognize what used to be the bank, the drug store, the movie theater, the clothing store, the appliance store, the camera store, the florist, etc. Keep the front facades, dress up the street and sidewalks, put parking moats in the back, and spread parts of Wal Mart all over town.
Giant imposing warehouse is much more efficient. Get back in line, citizen-consumer
I lived in Vegas for 7 years and went to Town Square regularly. You go there because it's one of the few areas for locals, and that shows because it's actually not that great. You are still running through traffic and certain sections are too far away from each other to really be "walkable" in the Vegas heat. It looks like it has these really nice restaurants but when you look closer it is the exact same places you see in a mall but in a nicer building. The funnel cake place is popular as well as the potato themed one, but I always just got a pretzel and a tea. Your attitude is spot on and and your grumpy defeatist tone is completely understandable.
Might be worth looking at Mizner Park in Boca Raton. Same concept but it was situated pretty well being next to “downtown” and lots of residential areas (even has some apartments included). Now with Brightline opening the Boca station directly across the street it will even have transit access.
City Place in WPB too. Also near the brightline and trirail stations.
I heard that place was creepy, connected to Jeffery and his creepy Island.
Oddly, despite being open-air, lifestyle centres are just as much of a product of the retreat-from-the-outdoors mindset of the late twentieth century. The rise of car dependent suburbia was accompanied by a complete reimagining of the middle class lifestyle - one where people were expected to actively avoid going outside. Every moment of a person's life would be lived indoors or inside of a private vehicle (that would itself be stored indoors).
A lot of the worst land uses are attempts to re-engineer traditional outdoor spaces and activities to better suit the people in cars paradigm. Streetscapes are no longer a place to walk, but a place to be admired while driving past - so footpaths give way to landscaping. Traffic is expected to grow forever, both in volumes and in mode share - so transit agencies emphasize public transit systems that are low capacity and best able to negotiate rising traffic levels (such as buses or infrequent commuter trains). People aren't expected to walk an outdoor main street to see a movie or show - so drive in movies increase in popularity. Even traditional hotels, cabins and lodges give way to motels, where you can go on holiday and park right outside your accommodation. Not to mention drive thru zoos, parkways designed to let you drive through a pleasant natural environment and so on.
The town centre is a place that has been re-engineered in this way more than once. Court malls and strip malls are one attempt - albeit an imperfect one that requires you park right outside your destination and then spend a moment in the outdoors (gasp), walking (gasp gasp) a few metres from your car to the shop entrance. Stroads can be viewed as an even more straight forward attempt to adapt the traditional main street format for people who are moving at 80kph in a metal box rather than moving at 5kph on their own two feet.
Enclosed shopping malls were perhaps the most successful reimagining of the town centre in this brave new indoor world. You drive there, park (in an enclosed parking structure if you are lucky) and then explore an indoor pedestrianized environment that has a lot of the general vibe of a town centre but without the outdoors. The weakness of this solution is just how much this costs. A single large building with few internal columns to break the illusion. Artificial lighting to simulate daylight. Truly massive HVAC systems. Indoor simulated landscaping that must be expensively replaced every couple of months.. This only made sense if these malls were of a truly giant scale, with hundreds of stores. This worked when all retail was through mall storefronts. As online retailing has supplanted the mall storefront in more and more segments, the cost of operating an enclosed shopping mall has become harder and harder to justify economically.
That's where lifestyle centres come from. They are, at their core, just another attempt to re-engineer the traditional main street in a way that suits the people in cars paradigm. They are open air, because this reduces the building maintenance, lighting, HVAC and landscaping costs. They generally have smaller footprints which allows the to focus on the retail segments that can't or won't move fully online (such as personal services, boutique fashion, dining etc). And they ape the aesthetic of a traditional main street because that's the fundamental intent.
They suck of course because, despite the open air character, they are still an attempt to reengineer the fundamentally outdoor experience of a walkable town centre for the brave new indoor world of the late twentieth century.
in a lukewarm defence of the CF Shops at Don Mills in Toronto, they are at least somewhat better integrated into the surrounding community compared to the average lifestyle centre, especially the one you described in Vegas.
A great example of a lifestyle center that is bizarre, urbanistically speaking, is Market Street in the Woodlands, TX. There are a few highly expensive apartment blocks nearby to it, but otherwise it’s just like the Vegas Town Square place, in that unless you have a car or an Uber, you can’t get there, especially from far corners of the woodlands, where the bike path network isn’t as developed (frankly, some of the bike paths, like the ones near College Park Dr 242 are right on the side of the highway and I’m too terrified to try and ride there).
Great video! And don’t worry, you’ve already convinced most of us of why you are right.
Worse, I think this might even displace real mixed-use urban development in some cases. Back in 2006 or so, I saw "mixed use" added to Oxnard CA's zoning map, and signs for "New Urbanist development" under construction. Then, big-box shells went up, surrounded by stroads and parking lots. Yet another faux-urban lifestyle center. Yes, even a Yard House. I wonder what Oxnard's planning department thinks "mixed use" means.
The planes!!! 😂
“Flattering the consumer’s sense of their own urbanity while keeping the riff-raff out.” Nailed it 👌🏼
An interesting variety of the lifestyle center is the city-center lifestyle center. Salt Lake City has two of these (Gateway and City Creek). They don't have the parking moats and interact better with their neighbors since they're downtown, and they have fantastic transit, foot, and bike access, but they suffer from the rest of the problems you brought up. Another flavor of lifestyle center is the transit-adjacent development. Station Park in Farmington, Utah, and Assembly Row in Somerville, Massachusetts, are examples. They are closer to the freeways, have some of the parking moat, and don't interact with their neighbors, but they still have good access by non-car modes. I dislike both of these varieties since I prefer traditional shopping streets, but I guess they're marginally better than the 100% car deserts.
I think the reason SLC is better set up is the size of the blocks. By being so big, they need to fill the inside of the block and thus, have more walking access.
I don't live there though, that's just my thought from google earthing it.
Bethesda MD has a similar shopping neighbourhood
That lifestyle centre you showcased in the video looked so clinical that I had to bleach my eyes out with a walking tour of Milan...
I really like your idea of future uses of current mega buildings. Theaters are some of the first that come to mind but also mega churches and mega auto shops also come to mind!
A lifestyle center that might be considered slightly less awful is The Paseo in Pasadena CA. It has just as much parking as any other, but it's all underground (don't even want to think about how expensive that must have been), so it fits much more neatly into the surrounding urban fabric of Pasadena. It also includes some (very pricy) housing
I’ve run into a few of these that aren’t the worst offenders of parking moats/a true stopgap for places figuring out their new urbanist ways.
Atlantic Station in Atlanta does a fair job of giving the west side of Midtown its own urban identity, though relying on developers to do that work on an island is its own issue that contributed to everything discussed in this video.
Reston Town Center is trying to become VA’s next big thing” on DC’s Silver Line, and has some real potential, especially given Reston’s unique path network/connectivity.
Yeah I thought about using Atlantic Station because I wanted an example from the southern US, but Alpharetta was such a more egregious example
You beat me to the punch. My take on Atlanic Station is quite positive, however, beacuse I remember what stood there not much more that twenty years ago. It was a huge EPA Brownsite where once stood the Atlantic Steel mill. The story of the cleanup, financing, design and development of the project, and it's effect on the city generally is quite interesting.
@@CityNerd Probably the right call for the overall pitch about these things being toxic. I see a parallel conversation at play about the interaction between governments and developers who use Atlantic Stations and Blue Back Squares as earnest attempts to upzone and densify.
Reston was my first experience with these centers and set the bar for me. Lots of apartment buildings and no parking moat. Then I discovered Mosaic which is all that plus supermarkets. Both are a short bus ride (or a half hour walk) to metro stops now. Even Fairfax Corner and Stonebridge which have moats do at least have apartments.
I think a promising thing about these centers is that they are not the all the same (like indoor malls were) and they are trying different ways to add urbanization features, some better than others.
Shoutout to The Glen, right by where I live! This video articulated why I enjoy places like that, and Old Orchard mall in Skokie. I found myself enjoying being there and now I see it served as a third space for me
I would definitely be interested in an exploration of movie theatres! I think the transformation from old movie palaces to suburban behemoths could be an interesting case study.
I worked at University Village for seven years, 1994-2001, and had the "pleasure" of witnessing it go from run down strip mall to upscale lifestyle center. I was just listening to this video while doing other things and it was so easy to visualize U Village as you were describing Town Center. And speaking of rules, don't forget that employees aren't allowed to park in the parking moat and must pay big bucks to park on the street on the two hour zone where you have to spend all your breaks moving your car.
The Domain is probably one of the more developed one of these. It's in stage three of expansion (according to wiki) and now has residential and office space. Still way too many parking lots and it seems disconnected. Also the light rail runs just a little too far away for it to be more helpful.
Used to live right by it. It's nice but hard to get around. Somehow still feels like everything is too far away from each other and there aren't really shuttles all over the place. And yes, that light rail is too far. It also ends really early too so it's not very useful for staying out late or for catching up with someone on the fly.
The real soul crushing part of this is that it shows we do know how to build proper urban spaces (I work in commercial construction and been involved in a handful of these) we just don't want to do it in actual urban locations.
Here in the DMV area these places are typically called *something* Gateway or *something* Town Center (occasionally spelled Centre for the real authentic experience). Or we come up with funky names that evoke a level of hip urbanism such as "One Loudon" or just "The Boro".
I live in University Place, Wa (fun fact: we don't have an university here) and we are building one of these lifestyle centers on a smaller scale. UP grew up when suburbs were thriving and there really wasn't much of a town center - just a bedroom community. I like that the city is trying to 'put the place in University Place' but it does also feel like we're trying to reverse-engineer a city. I would much rather have our town center than acres upon acres of strip malls. And at least our lifestyle center is in the heart of the city, not at the end of an airport runway surrounded by parking lots. 🤣
when's a CC coming? maybe an ag center a la Elkus Ranch?
Reston Town Center in Reston, VA is one of the best examples of such I have ever experienced.
We made it to the big house! I kept waiting for this ever since we hit Camp Nou. I hope you keep doing the sub checks still, though. Maybe use motor speedways, as there are plenty with larger capacities than this? If that is too anti-urbanist, perhaps entire cities? You could choose cities around the world each week to do a short showcase of their approach to urbanism.
That city idea is excellent, it would highlight some smaller approaches to urbanism in the near future which is always fascinating.
daily riders on metro systems, maybe?
No need to apologize. I'm glad to hear someone think similar things as I did when I saw University Village in NE Seattle.
At 5:33. I've long wondered how these places will age over time. Will these lifestyle centers just dilapidate quickly, to the point where they'll be sad, stucco'ed ruins in about 40 years? These edifices frankly don't seem like the type of architecture that will stand the test of time, like the old-timey town centers from the 19th century that everyone loves.
I agree with you, I don’t see how these lifestyle centers will stand the test of time especially because they probably very cheaply made but I’m guessing about that.
I remember trying to find parking when I was door dashing in Palo Alto, and I've never had so much hate for driving in an area as I've had for Stanford Shopping Center. The vast parking lots are always full on the weekend and I often had to park on the far side of Sand Hill Road just to go to CPK or Nothing Bundt Cakes. Trying to find stuff is impossible when you're actually trying to get somewhere fast, and I often lost my miniscule bonuses just trying to find where this nebulous restaurant is in this fake grid of a town that already has a charming downtown
Yes I absolutely want a video about movie theaters!!!
Yes, and it must include The Grand Cinema in Tacoma, WA. It's one of only two places that draw me to downtown, the other place being Dorky's Arcade.
@@jazzcatjohn yeah the AMC metreon in downtown sf is the same for me I love going there
We have a ton of lifestyle centers in Northern Virginia, but I do feel like they're somewhat more integrated, and almost all of them have a lot of housing, too. Don't get me wrong, the public transit, sidewalk & strode issues are very, very real here. However, places like The Mosaic District, Reston Town Center, and Village at Shirlington feel much less segregated & totalitarian. Of course, they're all still loaded with parking & parking structures, and they're all close to highways/freeways. But they feel more "lived in" and "real" than many I've seen, even though I remember seeing "The Dark Knight" in a movie theater that was where The Mosaic District now stands.
Okay - this one shot to the 'Top 3' among my favorite CityNerd videos. "Stores that.. represent the utter debasement of civilization." 😆 ... so many great one-liners in this one! ..and thank you for intruding me to the 'Smash Room' concept...?
My city of Denver has a large, livable grid witihin actual city limits, but you don't have to go far into the 'burbs before stumbling onto these Lifestyle Centers. Not to be confused with neo-urban communities (lifestyle centers w/residential).. which I'm not quite sure how to feel about.. I'll stick with living downtown.
Thanks for this playlist. I watched all 5 videos.
It seems that the lifestyle video was most positive for me. I think that lifestyle centres make more sense, if we stretch them out around areas that typically don't lend themselves out to purchasing, like municipal property and parks. If the lifestyle property was in the shape of an 8, with a park in the middle of a loop, and the municipal buildings in the other loop, then we could get a variety of traffic.
There would be space for protests, and space to shop, and space to relax.
We are building two of these in my suburb right now. Luckily we do have housing and ped/bike connections planned as part of the development. One thing that resonated with city staff and leadership was "install good quality bike/ped infrastructure so residents don't have to drive there and save the parking spots for people (sales tax $) coming in from out of the area"
Great video!!
As a kid, my parents would pack us up every time someone had a birthday and drive an hour and a half to Easton Town Center on the eastside of Columbus OH. We lived in very rural car-centric Ohio and it was really one of my earliest exposures to the idea of walkability. With that said, it was always about consumerism. We went to the AMC 30 for a film, ate at the birthday person's choice (mine was always Cheesecake Factory!), and probably dropped into another couple stores to spend some gift money or run an errand that we couldn't ordinarily run.
It's interesting when you call this simulated urbanism, when the things that I consider urbanism are totally lacking. Dense housing, transit access, small well curated grocery stores. But I also understand your point that it is just a taste. I'm sure some of these places even have monorails or trolleys or some kind of sanitized transit system....
You should do a video about Santana Row, San Jose. It was one of the earlier lifestyle centers. It's a very mixed bag. Lots of high end shopping and parking garages but also mixed with apartments on top and offices. Good mix of activities throughout the week and genuinely appealing to walk around. It's next to a rapid bus line but the connectivity is poor.
I like Santana Row, I grew up near it, and frequented there often with family or friends. I agree, pretty pedestrian friendly, but you pretty much have to drive there: 23/523 has good frequency, but VTA doesn't appeal to the typical Santana Row shopper, and it's hard to bike there unless you come in from that Monroe pedestrian bridge over 280.
Yeah, in my experience it's probably the least bad lifestyle center? But it's still annoying to have to deal with cars driving through the middle.
@@Chappington I'd agree. It's one of the better ones I've seen.
@@Chappington I remember many times it felt like we spent as much time looking for parking as it did to actually drive there (we were about a 10 minute drive from there)
I used to work in one of the offices there. Walking around was ok, but the big arterial roads are not pedestrian friendly.
Having been a planner since the mid-90s and someone who appreciates walkability, I was personally quite excited when lifestyle centers and their more mixed-use version, the town center, started appearing, because it represented such a 180 from the accepted wisdom consumers only wanted unwalkable, completely parking-oriented development and would shun public or quasi-public spaces. I am a Texan so the contrast was especially notable because traditional urban walkable shopping areas had essentially disappeared (except for some neighborhoods totally avoided by Anglo folks with $) from the entire state (maybe the Mexico border downtowns still qualified). So, I will stick up for these developments in that regard - they were a very important element of convincing the real estate market that walkability has some value (to Anglos with $).
One of the early ones in TX proved to be highly influential nationally - Southlake Town Square near DFW Airport. Hugely popular, by the early 2000s you just started hearing about it randomly even outside DFW. I don't know if this is phenomenon nationally, but some of these developments in TX have actually incorporated public facilities like libraries and city halls - Southlake did this, as well as Sugar Land. And honestly most of the ones I know about also include residential uses (multifamily and/or townhomes). The Woodlands "downtown" interestingly includes a traditional enclosed mall, an outdoor walkable lifestyle center, and a more strictly urbanist street grid area with a public plaza, plus a regional outdoor music venue and a public park. Even two of the remaining traditional malls in the Houston region have added outdoor walkable annexes, and another one will be doing so soon.
All that said, many of these projects still suffer from disconnection to adjacent areas (stroad or freeway borders, parking moats) and too much generic (if upscale) retail / restaurant chains (tbh, I kind of like Yard House though). I notice that the more savvy developers are trying to at least include distinctive regional businesses that you don't see outside the metro or the state, which is a step in the right direction. I know it's a challenge for them because their capital providers want to see "credit tenants" which means chains, not independent local businesses.
At 2:05. Why are the finest of fine dining establishments always The Cheesecake Factory? We have a panoply of other marvelous, delicious options, like California Pizza Kitchen, P.F. Chang's, Red Lobster, Panera Bread, Au Bon Pain, Denny's, etc.
I know that I have a.....different....sense of humour, but as the airliners kept showing up through this I was in stitches