224 Predator Engine Build Important Flywheel Fix 224cc Harbor Freight Predator 224 212
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 มี.ค. 2022
- This has been the 224 Predator engine Flywheel fix. If you liked the video, and enjoyed the 224 Predator engine build series, you're welcome to join me if this kind of stuff interests you.
I used red threadlocker on my 224 Predator engine flywheel, blue or orange would also work too. I think it'd be a good idea to apply loctite to the 224 Predator engine flywheel retaining nut on your 224 Predator engine build or your stock 224 Predator as there have been several guys finding their flywheels were loose. This can cause a bad vibration and will likely lead to damage on the tapered area of the crankshaft if left unchecked. Of course the worst case scenario would be that the flywheel on your 224 Predator engine could come off, and that would be a bad day for sure.
**It's important to remember that this is not just a rumor floating around.**
I've actually experienced the flywheels and flywheel retaining nuts being loose on 2 (two) separate 224 Predator engines first hand. The first 224 Predator engine had the factory flywheel that was actually loose on the crankshaft taper as well. A few other guys have also contacted me with the same concerns on the 224 Predator stock flywheels and retaining nuts. A few drops of thread lock on the threads of the flywheel retaining nut is cheap insurance and may help you avoid disaster for your 224 Predator engine build and yourself.
**It may also be a good idea to lap the flywheel to the crankshaft on your 224 Predator engine especially if your flywheel was loose on the taper. I cover that process in the 224 Predator engine build billet flywheel install video. It's easy to do and if you already have some valve grinding compound laying around it won't cost you anything but some time.**
The Predator 224 engine is one of the best harbor freight engines to ever come out in my opinion. The 58mm stroke crankshaft and the DUCAR reinforced block are worth the price of the engine alone.
I'll have some other 224 Predator engine build videos up soon as well as a series on the $49.95 LCT engine build. There were several parts removed from the 224 Predator engine build that were perfectly good engine parts so I decided to upgrade a few of the 179cc LCT engines a bit. Things may get out of hand with that engine build series as billet parts are here and more are on the way too, stay tuned. This is gonna get good.
Thanks, Chris "Kentucky Fried Fixes"
#212cc #212 #predator #ghost #kartracing #predator212 #predator224 #tillotson #billet #ringcompressor #wiseco #rings #besttools #bestgadgets #enginebuild #enginebuilding101 #KentuckyFriedFixes #224 - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Good catch. I'm just starting into a 224 project series on my channel and I'll add this to my list of things to check.
Thanks Doug! I'll be watching! I love 224 videos.
Just stumbled on one your reviews on Amazon looking for a billet flywheel. Man.. am i glad i had the time to look up your channel and explore! Your advice and knowledge on the motors is awesome! Definitely more than earned a sub! Thanks a lot for the tips, brother!
Hi MGS4LYFE19! Welcome! I appreciate you!
I’m always learning! Deff gonna go over my bikes and check this out! Maybe upgrade my flywheel! Thank you
You're welcome Jaden. Thanks for stopping in!
Thank you for this. Yes my 224 shakes like mad. I was assuming it was the extra stroke. I will check this tomorrow for sure before damage accrues. Keep up the great work! 👍
You're welcome Willy. I hope it fixes your issue.
Mine has a lot of vibration, I already confirmed that the fly wheel was tight, any thoughts?
@@joshporter5459 Hi Josh. These 224 engines have the 58mm stroke crankshaft and they're not balanced well at all. There's no easy fix to getting it to run smoother without a complete disassembly. The problem is the counterweights on the crankshaft are not heavy enough to make the engine run smooth. There's also a lot of reciprocating weight with the stock piston as those are very heavy. So that also adds to the vibration factor too. When I did the 224 billet rod/wildcat piston build, that engine ran noticeably smoother than it did stock out of the box. The wildcat flat top piston and wrist pin was much lighter than the stock dished piston and wrist pin. By switching to the lighter piston, I had reduced the reciprocating weight the crankshaft rod throw had to move in the bore. This made the engine run both smoother at idle and more importantly, much smoother thru higher revs. There's no easy fix aside from having the entire assembly computer balanced and that's not cheap. A good rule of thumb to remember though is any time you can reduce the reciprocating weight in a stock engine ie the piston/pin/connecting rod, the engine will run smoother. You can also remove some weight from the rod throw side of the crank by grinding some excess metal away, but that's a very tedious process and you'll be very close to the rod journal too. One nick on the rod journal and the crankshaft is ruined. Adding weight to the counterweight side of the crankshaft is also too difficult to do without specialty tools and the heavy metal slugs. The least expensive answer would be to go with a lighter piston/pin/rod combo.
@@joshporter5459 Also, a better flywheel may help too. If you switch to a billet flywheel, those will be balanced. The stock cast iron flywheels are only "kinda" balanced supposedly.... So a change over to a good flywheel will likely help smooth out the engine too, but again, not an inexpensive fix, likely over $100 for something billet.
I was wonder if I could get the crank balanced? Have you ever heard of anyone balancing a small crank? And how much would it be?
Very interesting Sir! 😁
How's she goin'? Just found your channel from Backwoods Boy Small Engines and thought I'd drop by!! Interesting fix for a possible loose flywheel nut!! I'll be back and thanks for posting this tip!!! Take care!!!
Great to see you and thanks for the visit! I hope you're warming up enough to keep the pump from freezing again! LOL
I'm checking mine tomorrow! I mounted mine on my bike, zip tied the governor, installed my header pipe from my 196, deleted the black emissions box and wind plate, then decided to get some jackshaft bearings and a clutch. So, figured I would just set idle for 1650, and wouldn't ya know, this thing kept hunting, and would creep to 2k no matter how far I backed off the idle screw. And, vibration city. So, I'm gonna look into this loose flywheel in the morning. (I should've checked it, when I removed and reindexed the pull start assembly!) I did entertain swapping my 196 black blower housing, and of course it was too small!
I think if you swap to the 196 fan and starter cup it should work. One of those $39.95 PVL flywheels would be a nice upgrade over the stock cast iron flywheel too! The first 224 Predator engine vibrated bad, but it didn't run long before I disassembled it. During the disassembly I found the flywheel nut was so loose my socket wouldn't stay on it without moving. Found out flywheel retaining nut was loose!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes I've never been a big fan of doing things twice, but yes, I totally agree on the flywheel hop up. That means three times, haha. As far as the unstable idle that I was observing, I hope that might be part of the flywheel issue, but knowing my luck it's probably something else
@@KentuckyFriedFixes I just gave my flywheel nut a "ugga dugga" or two. Made sure I marked the original position with a sharpie, and it indeed tightened a few degrees. I used my trusted 1/2" Ingersoll impact gun. Bike still shaking, and idle still hunting/not perfectly stable. Next, I simply removed the gas cap while it was running, to make sure it wasn't a tank venting issue. That showed no improvement. I think I gonna move forward, with swapping carbs next. I got two, non epa clone carbs, and both of them have the air screw, and the additional filter bowl. The 224 ducar carb doesn't have those features, but does have the optional jets kit that came with the motor. I remember everyone saying that the clone carbs were starting to come with tamperproof jets, I suppose they did away with that, with this new 224?
Your crankshaft may be a shaker. It may help to go with a lighter piston, it really helped smooth the 224 build engine out but I think the stock flywheel may have been a bit out of balance too. I've not used the jet kits on any of the 224's or done any modifications on the stock carbs. To be honest I've not really tried to get any performance out of the stock carbs. As you pointed out they're not adjustment friendly now and I think they're too small anyway. I don't have a reamer the correct size to open them up so it kinda leaves me out of the stock carb mod game with those unless I purchase a reamer. (I might purchase one if there's some interest in working the stock carb to be more "race friendly" but honestly I don't think there's much power in the stock carbs) Some of the Ruixing carbs have an adjustment but you're right on them switching over to nonadjustable anything on these things. Probably the best bet if you want to remain "stock appearing" is to get an adapter and bolt on a GX390 (adjustable) carb and work with it. IMO Thanks!
Just a follow up, after putting some hours on my 224, the vibration went down significantly. Maybe just chalk it up to break in..
I v fixed three this year and used 271 lock tight (red)
So far so good, none have came back yet
Mostly Honda cv 190 and 160 timing problems
Good deal Phillip! I think with a quick flywheel lap and some red loctite most flywheel nuts will behave themselves.
Good job 👍
Thanks 👍
Good tip earned a sub. TY
Welcome!
I have not had a chance to mess with mine but thanks for heads up
I was the same way. Wasn't using the Hemi swap 224 yet so I never checked it until I made the video to see, and sure enough it was loose too. I appreciate you HP!
What is the hose for that comes out of top of gas tank on a224ccpreditor motor mine won't start tries just pops through cab it's firing and getting gas vent pipe is not there
As long as the vent tube from the tank is open you're good to go there. It allows air to come into the tank to replace the volume of fuel that has been lowered by the engine running. If the tank was not vented to atmospheric pressure it would cause the fuel to stop flowing to the carburetor after a brief run time as the fuel tank would become vacuum locked if there was no atmospheric pressure. A lot of Science in that one piece of the engine alone.
Could be a few things causing the issue you describe.
Will it start up with a brief spray of carb cleaner? If not, check the small stuff like:
1. Timing key or flywheel position if you're not using a timing key. It can be off a bit but too far one way or the other and the engine will not run.
2. Valve lash settings. Improper valve lash can prevent the valves from closing completely. Also affects the compression release on the exhaust lobe.
3. Spark plug and the air gap on the coil. If it has a Torch brand plug sometimes those can appear to fire while outside the engine but when installed in the cylinder head under pressure, they won't fire properly or at all. Check and/or set the air gap between the coil and flywheel. If the coil had been removed check to make sure it's not been mounted backwards by mistake. (It happens)
4. Compression test. Do we have enough compression in the cylinder to run or is it too low for some reason?
It's mostly checking the small stuff and making sure you have fuel, spark (at the right time) and enough compression. Once you've eliminated the small stuff then you can focus on individual systems/items. Example: I've seen several OHV engines that had floated the valves with stock valve springs and bent an exhaust valve. This can be diagnosed during the compression test. A bent valve won't close all the way and compression will usually be zero. You can do this. I know it can be frustrating to diagnose an engine issue but hang in there, in most cases it's something small that has been overlooked. By doing the basic checks first then working up from there, you'll find the problem causing your issue.
Edited to add: Check your fuel for water too! It happens!
My 224 shakes pretty bad too, I finished breaking it in (following owners manual procedure) and it had quite a bit of metal shavings in the oil and so I changed the oil and put in fresh oil and took the mini bike for a 25 minute ride around the neighborhood (under 3/4 throttle the whole time mostly half) and when I pulled back in the driveway it was knocking, drained the oil again and it was black and filled with tons of metal shavings, there’s no rod knock just tons of crankshaft end play or thrust
Hi Shane, aside from the flywheel fix it may also be a good idea to pull that side cover and have a look to see what's going on inside. If you've got chunks or shavings, something serious is going on. All engines will have some aluminum specks floating around in the break in oil when you first drain it, but a tiny speck (like a few shiny dust particles floating in the oil) and metal shavings mean two very different things for sure. That end play is something to check into as well. Once the side cover is off it should tell the story.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes I just got back from harbor freight and they replaced the engine no questions asked, and the new one vibrates slightly worse, I’m scared over time it’s going to break my mini bikes frame, not even considering what it’ll do to the internal parts of the engine, I checked the flywheel nut on both and they were loose but didn’t make a huge difference I’m breaking the new one in on the bench, (it’s ratted all my tools of the table) I’m just worried about the insane amount of vibration These new engines are producing.
@@shanedorian1420 Hi Shane, they're not balanced for sure. I noticed that the billet rod 224 engine runs smoother than it did when stock. We reduced the reciprocating weight by using a lighter piston and it seemed to help quite a bit. Of course it still doesn't run as smooth as a computer balanced crank but it's not bad. I also think changing the flywheel helped too. Those stock cast iron flywheels are terrible.
@@shanedorian1420 The piston and rod side of the crank is much heavier than the counterweights on these. You can polish the rod journal side of the crank and remove the casting to get the balance heading in the right direction, as well as get a new piston, rod, and pin. Some places have light weight pins available for the clone size. This uses the Ducar .716 pin instead of the honda .710. But you can fix that with a rod and piston swap as you go up in power output.
I have not even taken my 224 out the box yet because I really want a good roller frame but I don’t know of any place besides Go Power Sports and those guys are either out of stock or very expensive!!! I have paid for the motor and now I have to pay the $$$$ for a roller if you know where I can get a good price on a roller mini bike please let me know thanks and of course thanks for the great video and info always a fan for good content
Hi Janice. Usually you can find frames on Ebay, craig's list or Facebook marketplace. If I was going to purchase new, it depends on what size you're looking for. I know Walmart sells a little Coleman CC100X complete 98cc mini bike for $399 but it's a bit small of course like those little frames you can purchase without an engine. I've seen Baja Warrior frames on Ebay for $250 but then there's shipping or pickup to consider. It takes some patience if you're looking for something reasonably prices. Those little Azuza bare frames can be had for less than $200 but then you're looking for wheels and tires at Harbor Freight.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes thanks so much did not want to sound cheap but this is just a weekend hobby to release some steam from my long week! So glad you understand I see everyone talking about this 224 and I said I have to get it I’m glad I did but I think 🤔 I should have got a roller frame first but like you said patients and everything will fall into place until then I will just in joy your great videos!! Thanks again
@@janicefullerton6201 There's nothing wrong with trying to get the most for your money IMO. I sometimes call myself "cheap" but a friend reminded not long ago that I'm not "cheap" I may be a bit "frugal" though. "Frugal" does sound better than "cheap" LOL.
I put a cheap Amazon aluminum fly wheel on mine the other day and my mini bike shook while riding like crazy I figured it was motor mount or flywheel.. put the stock one on and it fixed it. That cheap fly wheel wasn’t balanced for the 224 I guess
Hi Brad! Be sure to check the taper fit on yours. They may have sent you the wrong taper flywheel. The 224 uses the standard Honda type taper on the crankshaft. I've tried two of the cheapie aluminum flywheels (one on a 224) and so far I've had good luck with mine.
Don't know if you know the answer. The starter cup on my 224 is taller than on my 212 engines. I put a billet flywheel on it and starter cup recently broke. I put one of the 212 flywheel cups on it but it isn't long enough to engage the pull start. Do you know anything about this? Thanks
Hi Brandon! Yes Sir the 224 pull start cover is wider and the starter cup is taller on the 224 than the ones on the 212. I guess they did that so they could add the taller cooling fan. You can change everything over to something from a 212 but you have to change it all, pull start housing, starter cup and you've already got the flywheel covered.
So what do you put these motors on mostly? GoKarts?
I've got a herd of mini bikes and go karts waiting for engines. I'll be glad when it warms up and I can get some seat time! Thanks Buddy!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes 😊
What's that part called where the spark plug wire connects too located next to flywheel? When I got my 224 it never had it and I can't send it back. I already opened up removing governor arms and bolts and such.
Hi L.A.M.! Do you mean the coil? If so they're around $12 to $15.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes Do you think the 212 will fit the 224 is it the same?
@@l.a.m7645 It's exactly the same coil. If you have one from a 212 laying around, it will bolt right up to the 224.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes And last question what gap do I want to be near stock flywheel the thickness of a credit card?
A standard business card will work fine for the stock flywheel and coil applications. You're looking for around .015 to .020 air gap between the coil and flywheel for a stock setting. A credit card may be a little thicker but that'll work too. It's better to set the air gap a little loose rather than too tight for sure. If you install a billet flywheel (with hot magnets) you'll want .045 to .050 air gap or you'll smoke the coil.
What does the tank vent from the top of tank do on 224cc predator
The tank vent allows air to enter the fuel tank as the fuel leaves. The 224 tank is vented to a charcoal emissions device, it could cause issues if the tank has accidently been overfilled with fuel. If the emissions box fills with liquid fuel it can no longer allow the tank to vent properly.
Is the shaft RH or LH threaded? thanks
RH Thanks Paul!
Does the 212 starter kit work on this?
Hi Daniel, I've not tried it yet but there's no reason it shouldn't work. I may try to install one soon as my generator has a 212 and I'm getting ready to purchase an electric start for it.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes Nice !! I'll be on the look out for that video.
Do you happen to know what recoils would work on these 224s? The recoil snapped a piece off inside that holds the cogs/dogs on mine.
Zach I think the 212 recoil is the same but I've not tried it. I'm pretty sure the only difference is the fan, blower housing and starter cup are wider on the 224, the recoil from the 212 should fit on the 224 blower housing. I'm debating on switching over to the complete 212 start system on mine as it no longer has the extended fan inside the blower housing.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes interested to see how it plays out! I finally got everything on my sons sled finished with the motor swap, from gearing, clutching, exhaust, braking, and swapping the motor itself and making it fit. Finally get it all completed and brakes the dog in recoil lol not the medal dog itself but the plastic that holds them in
Those engine makers sure do like the plastic stuff. Only problem is the plastic stuff isn't meant to do the job we need it to do. A good supply of pull starters is a must, or one of those Burris electric starters is nice. I think I have one arm longer than the other from all the pull cords that have been yanked out of my hand over the years.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes I would be interested looking into those electric starters pending what they weigh. How can we send you videos? I’m not sure how to do it on here
If you have a link to the video Zach, just leave it in a comment. The system will hold any comments with links until I approve them (keeps spammers from doing their thing) but I'll approve it as soon as I see it. Thanks
Hey buddy can I get some help on the new carburetor I just got from Amazon it’s call lab works and it has a different chalk style from the regular Mikuni style carburetter you pull on a black knob to engage the joke but that’s not the problem the problem is nobody talks about all of the different brass inlets coming from the style of carburetter I don’t know what they’re for I know where the gas line does but there’s three other nipples I don’t know please help?.. thanks for any help on this matter 😊
Good to see you! I'm not sure which type of carb you have but if you figured out the fuel inlet you're probably good to go. The other brass fitting will likely be an overflow. You plug a hose into it and direct the other end of the hose somewhere below the engine. In case the bike is tipped on its side fuel can exit thru the overflow and be directed to a safe place other than the hot engine.
Anyone know if this still an issue on new engines or has it been corrected?
Hi TG! I'm still getting reports as of March 2024 that the 224 flywheels are not torqued properly from the factory. It's best to check to make sure yours is tight before install.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes Thank you!!
I was on a snowblower forum a guy was saying that an lct electric start flywheel fit a 212 predator just don't know if it's hemi or non hemi
Hi Craig, the LCT flywheel looks like a Honda clone taper. I'm currently working on an LCT engine build now (not an electric start though) and I've ordered a flywheel for it but it hasn't arrived yet so I've not verified it to fit yet, but it looks right to my eye. I've honestly not thought to try it on the 224 or the 212. To me the only way to know for sure is to lap the two parts together and inspect the fit. If it's wrong, it's easy to see when you wipe away the valve grinding compound. I think that's a great idea for a video though, to see what flywheels fit for the 212 Hemi and non-hemi and what may interchange. When I get some time I'll try to put one together. Thanks
@@KentuckyFriedFixes the 224 is a great repower engine for snowblowers especially if a cheap electric start flywheel is available
The 224 has the power to move some snow for sure. I think the little LCT 179cc snow blower engine is a good option too, for $49.95 it's hard to beat. Just a bit of misinfo about them floating around that we're gonna clear up. I'll have more on it soon.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes I bought a bunch of powerland 196cc electric start engines a while back put one on a toro 3.5/21 it's pretty good I may need to make a jet change though
Hemi and non hemi flywheels are not interchangeable
Can I zip tie the govener on it
You can, but don't forget first you need to beef up the internals and add a billet flywheel any time you're planning to turn more than the factory 3600 RPM or it may not end well. The stock connecting rods can usually survive up to around 6K RPM but the cast iron flywheels are another story. That's why most Kart Race tracks won't allow stock cast iron flywheels.
I just bought a 224 and my throttle is stuck wide open even with a hand throttle (hand throttle doesn't change anything) any ideas my small engine friends?
Check those carburetor and governor linkages and springs. If you've removed the governor you'll need to add a throttle return spring.
The torque spec is 54 ft lbs, and you should NOT use an impact on the flywheel nut.
Hi Robin, I use an impact on mine and I always will but as I said in the video, I always suggest everyone follow the manufacturer's recommendations for their flywheel torque. ARC recommends 65 Ft/LBs on their 6619 and EC recommends 65 Ft/LBs on their EC Rev
Mine vibrated bad too
It seems to be a common issue Stephen. Lots of guys are finding their flywheel retaining nut on their Predator 224 engine loose. Nothing like this seemed to be an issue on the 212 engines. I know they're not "balanced" but yikes.
Thanks
I think they took care of the issue because mine is tight af
Good deal Zac! I haven't bought any 224 Predator engines this year (so far). I wonder if they're using loctite on them now?
@@KentuckyFriedFixes I’m not sure maybe I’m just weak but it definitely won’t come off easy for me
@@zac.bolin01 My first two were loose. It was easy to remove the flywheel nut, almost as if they'd put it on finger tight then just gave it a light snug. If yours is tight, you're likely good to go. BUT, I would still recommend a remove and retorque of the flywheel nut so you can add a drop of loctite to the threads, in case it doesn't have any.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes I tried for a while all i was doing is just bending the fan so I gave up lol
@@zac.bolin01 One of those crankshaft holders would be nice to have for that! (I don't have one either).