Proving that Twitch Punishes VTubers Unfairly
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
- What am I watching? (My genuine reaction)
Twitter: x.com/ExpertAr...
Donations: streamelements....
(I probably won't be looking at SE until after the planned yapping part of the stream is done, but I appreciate all donations nonetheless).
Timestamps:
00:00-13:01 Pre Show Yapping
13:02-16:40 History Lesson on Twitch's Infamous 7 Day Ban
16:41-17:56 Twitch's Sexual Content Policy
17:57-21:06 Comprehensibility vs Transparency
21:07-24:22 Weaknesses in Twitch's Policy Enforcement
24:23-27:02 Black Box Systems
27:03-40:01 VRChat vs Vtubers
40:02-44:32 Layna Lazar's Ban
44:33-58:38 Twitch's Attire Policy
59:15-1:03:02 KokoNuts' Ban
1:03:03-1:09:52 The Santa Clara Principles
1:09:53-1:18:08 Trying to Guess at the Reason for KokoNuts' Ban (Confirmed Incorrect by KokoNut VOD as of 22/06/2024)
1:18:09- 1:25:02 Using Academic Studies to Prove the Obvious
1:25:03-1:27:57 The Exceptions to (and Origins of) Twitch's Rules
1:27:58-1:38:25 Community Guidelines Penetration Testers & Their Ban Stats
1:38:26-1:43:41 Top VR Chat Streamers & Their Ban Stats
1:43:42-1:52:56 Top Vtubers & Their Ban Stats
1:52:57-1:55:36 A Side By Side Comparison of the Three Streamer Groups
1:55:37-1:57:27 Twitch's Biggest Mistake
1:57:28-2:01:10 How Can Twitch Fix Its Situation
2:01:11-2:11:53 What To Do If You've Been (Unjustly) Banned
2:11:54-2:12:05 "E-Thots are not a Sustainable Business Model"
2:12:06 Post Show Yapping
Hello, VOD gang here again! About the thing with Kimmika, her stunt was wildly criticised on the spanish speaking community when it come out. Also Twitch CEO, Dan Clancy, came to Spain and Andorra recently to visit the biggest streamers on the spanish side to comment on their policies and guidelines and things for the future to come, on lo and behold half of his feed consisted on women showing way too much cleavage. So yeah even the CEO didn´t give a good image there, he basically was meme´d to hell for what we call ``ser un pajero´´ which its commonly used in spanish to refer to someone who likes to stroke themselves way too much. (Although ``pajero´´ is usually someone who is in charge of recollecting straw at a farm on a daily basis and on other occasions some Latin American countries use it to call someone out as a liar).
I'm glad to know the Spanishbros were equally unimpressed, and I will now be adding "ser un pajero" to my vocabulary
My college university has a better running policy than Twitch and that is saying something
I'm not sure what I expected to hear today, but the words "E-thots are not a sustainable buisness model." was not part of it.
That moment when a sentient chair can be more transparent about Koko's ban than Twitch staff, even when he's just speculating.
My opinion, the reason twitch mods hate vtubers is because, unlike fleshtubers, they can't just coerce them to send nudes for more leniency.
I think its the fear of "younger audiences" and "Angry Parents" but who knows...
@@command_unit7792 But wouldn't it theoretically be "worse" for a 13yo to see a real person's boobs than an anime girl's boobs? (Not that I think any 13yo cares, if they don't want to see it they'll just klick away, right?)
@@command_unit7792 They would have banned the pornstars then as in all the people that had onlyfans and are in hottub streams
1:17:42 if we were to compare the Twitch algorithm to a person, it would be an IGN "journalist" getting triggered over attractive waifus in video games
Couldn't have come up with a better metaphor myself.
The Armchair is on the news!!
If I'm not mistaken Twitch doesn't automate things as much as TH-cam and relies on people flagging/reporting streams.
About the body art part i'm still not sure on the whole "heart womb" thing if its sexual or not. I would love to ask them but....its twitch after all.
I believe the reason why twitch's enforcement of its TOS appears to be frivolous or needlessly authoritarian is because it alleviates twitch of accountability of taking an explicit stance of what content is acceptable on its platform. There will be a vocal minority that will proclaim that taking a stance (particularly in this case) is indicative of some greater political narrative. By unequally applying its rules it gives twitch plausible deniability of displaying clear bias because there will be exceptions in their enforcement.
While I agree that this might be the justification used by Twitch internally, I cannot see this being good for the long term health of the platform. It doesn't make great business sense to shape your policies around a minority of individuals whose only goal appears to be to push said policies to their limits with each new iteration.
@@theArmcha1rExpert I agree that structuring your business model around the minority of your market share is not profitable. However, this has not stopped even larger companies for making unprofitable decisions based on similar motives. Ultimately, Twitch has not shown me any indicator that they will not cave to external pressure.
I think its a bit of this and a bit of the theory that Twitch management get "extra/special service" from fleshtubers...
And they only ban/suspend fleshtubers for shoe that they are "enforcing equally" their policy...
Just allow nudity for both Vtubers and E-girls EQUALLY!
Great stream, I really appreciated the visual aids in the ban comparisons. Keep up the good work.
10:52 I would also guess that since Vtuber models have much more visible color separation between clothing and skin, it's easier for the bots to hone in on the flesh tones in the "no- no" areas
Honestly, I came into this thinking that Twitch unfairly treating VTubers is a meme, and I came out...not quite thinking the opposite, I think there's some merit to it but with the small sample size it's hard to tell, but I was more surprise to come out thinking that them favoring the pen-testers is more than just a meme. Because, to be honest, I think that a 1 day ban is fair for a first offense. It's stopping one, maybe two streams, depending on how inconvenient the timing is (assuming the creator only goes live once a day and goes live every day). More than that is...iffy, depending on the context.
For Vedal's ban, IIRC this was the incident that made him implement the filter. As far as I remember, some people baited Neuro into saying some, uh, untrue things about WWII and the veracity of some of the major atrocities committed (skirting the issue here since IDK how strict YT's enforcement is gonna be with the words, but I imagine most people get what I mean), and I think like...a three day ban is acceptable for that, that's borderline dangerous thinking being parroted as opposed to just salacious/sensibility offending content (plus, actually having to code in the filter takes time anyway, even if it was a one-day ban he was likely going to take longer to get the filter working properly, you have to take a while to properly test something like that), two weeks was entirely overkill. I don't know enough about the others to have input, but I imagine that, assuming they're mostly apparel violations, one day is about right for a "slap on the wrist" ban.
The fact of the matter is, the average ban length for pen testers is absurd. Even with a sample size of 6, the fact that these people who are clearly trying to get around the rules having average ban durations so low is unthinkable. I imagine most community-run moderation teams would give them the permaban by their third offense, maybe even the second depending on how blatant they are. Even if the rest of the pen-tester category has sensible ban stats, their top earners having stats like this is a terrible, terrible look, because it gives the impression that the worst that can happen to them for repeatedly and consistently breaking the rules is 3-7 days of no streaming.
I'd be really curious to see the stats for vtubers/vrchatters/pen testers (assuming hot tubs/beaches all being pen testers, I imagine 99% of them are, I fail to see why you would stream there otherwise outside of one-off events or being like...a beach volleyball streamer or something niche like that, but those are edge cases) as a whole, but that's probably unrealistic without Twitch giving the stats themselves, and the chances of that are...basically nonexistent if they won't even tell people why they got banned.
Honestly, it's just a shame things are like this with the two "big" platforms. YT has issues with copyright and censorship, Twitch is just...managed weirdly, and trying to make a competitor is financially extremely difficult due to the hardware required to support large-scale streaming (of video, not "streamers" streaming, just video over the web).
For the curious, much of YT's copyright weirdness stems from the laws (at least in the US) being archaic. Copyright laws were made with the understanding that anyone who would reasonably be affected by it would have a lawyer and be able to sort things out that way. They were not made with even the remote possibility that any random kid could upload a video of them singing a Disney song and potentially have millions see it. Due to that, patchwork laws (called safe harbor laws) had to be put in place to allow for sites like YT to exist, because under existing legal frameworks YT would have been the one held liable for any copyright infringement the aforementioned random kid might make. And part of those laws say you have to be prompt about handling any infringing material you host, and YT has decided to err on the side of being super strict about it.
Unfortunately, I personally find it unlikely that those laws will change within the next decade or two unless a lot (and I mean a LOT) of people make a stink about it. Current policymakers simply don't understand the internet well enough (remember the Zuckerberg trial where they didn't even understand how FB made money?), and it's in the best interest of companies like Disney (who is famously strict on copyright and actively tries to sculpt copyright law to their favor. They once literally sued daycares for having pictures of Snow White and stuff on the walls) to keep laws as they are now, regardless of if that's better for the average person or for culture as a whole.
Anyway, I've yapped too much, great stream, thoroughly enjoyed it. Excited to see what else comes in the future!
Thanks for taking the time to type all that out. Unfortunately, I very much agree with you in that, while Twitch would most likely have all the stats at their fingertips to do what I did but much more effectively, this is something that will probably never see the light of day. Above all, Twitch's worst issue right now is its lack of transparency, since it exacerbates everything else from its apparent favouritism to its general refusal to communicate with its creators. You're also right to point out that TH-cam is no better, being crippled with its own set of problems and creator debuffs and, as a whole, this is a topic that I will be diving into in more detail in the near future.
Poor FallenShadow just got banned for 30 days
Tectone shouldn't get any points for "making fun of the meta" because he actually participated in it ,irrelevant of the motifs. He, for example, could've censored his whole body or where clothes with a naked imprint, that would've been satire.
Most police in America at least give you a reason why they are arresting you even if it's BS.
Thank you for this you did more here in a few days than twitch has done in years lol
25:39 lmfao
L+ratio = perma ban
sex on stream = one week ban + free advertisement and channel growth
Goddamn it, the notification bell failed me today. Guess I'm vod gang now lmao.
i am suprised that twitch didnt ban a lot of vtubers during the "artistic nudity" incident in december last year.. or are just a lot of datapoints missing?
The comparison I did only looked at the top creators over the last month for each category. Had more data been made publicly available by Twitch, including the ban statistics of those outside the top 20 of last month, then I agree that we would likely observe a spike in bans in December for Vtubers as well.
And sadly all this behavior from Twitch will continue since no one will make a stand or protestsl in some way against it like not making content for them till they listen, since people just make an angry tweet or mocking Twitch and then move on as if the issue didnt exists Twitch probably think everything us perfect and everyone loves them that tweet just was an emotional act and will pass
Btw want to make clear i am not asking creators to do so as this for many is what pay the bills and often what they love im not Criticizing them im just saying what I see as a sad reality, hope they someday get the attention they deserve and all this stupidity ends 😢
Sorry for the 2 month later comment just followed the channel and doing a tour of it 🙇♂️
That was an interesting stream!! All the best!!
fantastic work, chair, hope it contributes to make some change and serves as a helpful tool to smaller vtubers
thx for the stream!! otsuchair!!
Really cool video 👍
The tmods can't j0ff to vtuber soo they inforce the rules
Meanwhile: sex 7 day ban for real women