Helllllllloooooooooooo!!!! your greeting has grown on me......... really like the heater videos, I use mine in my RV, I'm not rich, and i use it for economical survival in cold times, I changed the bearings" after watching your video, and it's almost silent now, I've been amazed at how good they are, and after playing with those crappy expensive to use" propane heaters for years and the Propane heater that came with the RV, I Am soooo happy to have found this Great little dry heat heater. There on sale for 94.00$ right now. I'll buy another for a backup and parts. Thanks my friend. Maybe u should do a Propane Cost Comparison, show people how much they can save. Because the cost savings is hugh.
That's a very good point you've made and one that is often overlooked. These heaters produce a dry heat. I've been in workshops where the water is literally running down the walls as they have a propane fired heater running.
I gotta say you sound exactly like Billy Connelly, it is uncanny how exactly the same you sound, that would be possibly something to look into as a voiceover stand in for him Continued success Fabrizio
Soooo in depth. I haven't even purchased my heater yet. It's quite warm where I live but will probably be out on the road before long and will need night time heat. I plan on a centerfuge cleaning and burning waste oil
I run my heater occasionally (campervan) with a few weeks per year high in mountains. when I got my heater a few years back, reading about people's units sooting very quickly I set mine very lean to avoid that. My heater runs 90% of the time on idle at 0.8Hz and some 1900rpm. This explains why I never had problems going into mountains and staying at 2000m a.s.l. - the mixture wasn't running as lean as usual, it was getting slightly richer for the 25% less oxygen at that elevation. I also always assumed many people had problems with the soot because they fit all sorts of long exhausts with silencers restricting the gas flow. I never bothered fitting any silencer, just the exhaust pipe with one big diameter bend and that's all. or maybe I'm just lucky and my heater is better quality? hell knows...
Thanks again for the update David, I’ll have to get a CO2 meter and try to set mine up. Just as a starting point could you let me know what would be a good starting point? Thanks again
_Interresting, and learned something new. It never occurred to me to use my CO smart sensor to help fine-tune the heaters. I bet it would work for high attitude tunning! If the controller does have a high altitude setting. That brings another question does the high altitude setting on the controller changes the fuel ratio down at a predetermine setting?_
I realize it could upset the turbulence required for combustion stability, but I wonder if a little porting of the inlet and outlet would help these things be less sensitive to restrictions and high winds. (particularly at altitude, as I have been monkeying with mine constantly at 10,000ft)
You can adjust the mixture by adjusting the hrz and watch the heat bars on the display, set the heater at max temp, keep turning down the fuel until the last bar goes away, then turn it up until every bar is lit up👌 Then you will have a good mix of fuel and air, and the heater will burn effectively as it can..
They don't seem to change on mine for some reason. I tuned mine using a CO sensor, it was surprising how much a small change in Hz dramatically increased the Carbon Monoxide produced (and made it less efficient). for my unit 4.6-4.8Hz @4500 rpm fan speed gave 20-24ppm CO, 5.0Hz was 30 plus and then rose dramatically. Low setting 1.7Hz @:1500 RPM was around 9ppm CO, 1580 rpm increased the CO, 1.4Hz@1500 was over 150ppm. Only ran for 2 hours, so these settings might change, and yours would be different.
The more correct question is does the ECU react to the height information supplied by an Afterburner (if fitted with a pressure sensor), or even OEM controller. Sadly my tests with the 3 styles of ECU I have, that are compatible with an Afterburner, say no. There may be other units that do not work with an Afterburner that may self adjust, but this family of heaters that David is playing with do not.
Do you think you could do a video testing on peaple placing the heater in diferente places affecting the airflow maybe mesure the airflow speed coming out with a meter in my case mine is in the corner with only 2cm gap from the big round airintake
Great video. Do you know, is there a chart that relates these numbers to use at various altitudes? Apparently there are issues driving in the mountains
Take those generalized graphs with a grain of salt. The generalized reduction in fuel only gets you so far into the sky. Somewhere around 9k ft, combustion intake air temp starts playing a definable role.
Hi David I have fitted quite a few of these heaters in campers and love you posts and learnt loads from you .. I have the same carbon mon tester as you and I have never on a 5kw or 2kw heater got a good reading under 1.6 hz ? Everyone I fit I won’t programme them to go less than 1.6 hz 1500 rpm .. Have you found this to be the case ? Ta Glen
@@DavidMcLuckie yes mate and the carbon monoxide goes shooting up again .. The 2kw have a smaller pump as you will know but still can’t get them to go lower levels
@@yicafresh that's interesting. My 5kw is smoky and high co levels below 1.6 too. I like to run below these settings for my small van but I'm concerned about carbon build up. I wonder if running at full power for a couple of minutes before shutting down would clear the burner. ??
Was there a link to buy the Co2 sensor? Or can anyone tell me the make and model please? Great strapline intro and a unique USP for David's videos. Keep up the great work my friend and all the best for 2023.
Have you done or thought of doing any tests with a larger capacity fuel pump? I think these tend to be 22ml pumps but I've seen someone in the USA testing one using a 28ml pump, so I'd be interested on the difference in 'behaviour' of the heater between running a 22ml pump at higher HZ or a 28ml pump on lower HZ.. I'm curious about that one.
That's great, Which means a heater unit could be used to fire a forge. Not hot enough to produce hammer welds or molten/smelting iron. But enough to bend /straighten and manufacture. An adapted "heater" would be easier to carry and cheaper than a small farriers forge and quicker to use and pack away.... Right pencil and pad and thinking cap... 🤔
Great video David. Have you found the Uni-t temp sensor to be reasonably accurate? I looked at it but they just seem so cheap, I was a bit suspicious. I have other Uni-t stuff and I'm happy with them. I was just curious.
Same as you I've got a few Uni-T things and they all seem to be of reasonable quality. Without an expensive calibrated unit to compare with I don't know how accurate it is.
the noise you refer to, I had it REALLY bad on a chinese branded heater which was labeled to go up to 8kw (controller actually went up to 9kw)... would sound like a roaring jet/flamethrower for the first 5-10 minutes (depends on how cold the heater was)... after using it like such for a few months, had no problems with it other than the complaint of loud roaring noises (low and rumbly) at start-up... shut-down wasn't an issue at all.... i'd have to say the controller is/was set up differently to the 5kw versions (in reality they're ALL 5kw bodies) just with different burners to accommodate the rating... at least that's my opinion due to similar casing sizes but the 5kw burner being slightly smaller than the 8kw burner... ever have the same issue i describe? unless you've already mentioned it (I may have missed it)
One of my other heaters does exactly as you described but I couldn't get this one to make the same noise. It must be a combination of factors that isn't happening this time. I had a 5KW make the noise installed in camper van but it went away after I tuned it.
@@DavidMcLuckie i would have to say it would've been the dosing pump... not all pumps are the same (as far as i can tell when it comes to these heaters)... and an aggressive dosing rate? not entirely sure but that's my thoughts.
Thanks David - interesting episode and info as normal. The melting point of aluminium is 660oC, aluminium alloys are generally lower, although aluminium bronze is 1027 - 1038oC, so how can the chamber be 900 to 1200oC? I have dobuts about that temperature reading, though it is Interesting to know that the temperature is very high and therefore they must use some pretty special aluminium alloy to cast the burn chambers.
So that probe is deep inside the steel burner chamber where the temperature will be a lot hotter. Another thing to note is the aluminium is being constantly cooled by the air flow. If you were to stop cooling and keep the burner at max power you might be able to melt some of the interior. :)
in the 0.8hz mode can it be useful to connect an undersized pump to decrease the air-fuel ratio? as actually happens in the 2kw version translated with google translate
Thank you for all your Great Work Sir. I have a question, do you have a video showing the differences between gasoline and diesel heaters ? do any of these run on propane or other fuels ? if not, maybe a good video topic. Thankin Yee from boston usa 🙏🌺🦉
@@DavidMcLuckie thank you my main question is are they different machines or are they the same exact machine running on a different fuel like gasoline and Diesel,
Man, i liked that you put al the effort in, but I would have liked to see the chamber temp and fan speed specs on 0.8. and you showed the chart but forgot to show the whole sheat you wrote down, also when you put it to 10 Hz I would like to see the chamber temp cause that's the only thing I can go on on my heater Wich shows the chamber heat true the controller. So that's where I base my specs on. Thanks for the effort but I would have loved to see all the details in full!
Interesting question 🤔 Anything under 100 on each would be good. Will be in work tomorrow so will have a look👍 I’m I’m guessing Nox 100 Co 40/50ppm But will let you know tomorrow
Tuning for lowest CO you end up with the lowest sustainable burn temperature. Dip under that threshold and the CO goes up and down as the chamber goes out and relights continuously. Not easy to monitor, you can see the housing temp on the display but it doesn't react as quickly as the CO reading, or the probe I drilled into the core of a heater.
Didn't see the numbers at 10 PPM. Did the flame temp go down? Oil burner techs tune A/F by measuring the exhaust temp. So I've been told. Either too rich or lean causes lower exhaust temp. Max temp is just right. A plot of this variable would be cool. Nice scientific treatment of this issue David. Thanx. :) p.s. O2 detectors on propane heaters use the pilot flame with a thermocouple in front of it. When the O2 level drops the flame front slows down and uncovers the thermocouple. As low a drop from 20% to 19% will do it. FYI. I think the problem with running these thing indoors is that the O2 in the air is replaced with CO2 and eventually drives the O2% too low. That's when incomplete combustion occurs and CO goes up.
Can you run the heater in different orientation and show the results. I tried to run mine on its side with the exhaust facing away from me and I had white smoke from the exhaust. I got no idea why orientation has any side effect. No one has covered this topic.
@@DavidMcLuckieI have seen that video. But I'm looking for more about how different orientations effects the heater and why. Can't it be mounted vertically for instance?
Helllllllloooooooooooo!!!! your greeting has grown on me......... really like the heater videos, I use mine in my RV, I'm not rich, and i use it for economical survival in cold times, I changed the bearings" after watching your video, and it's almost silent now, I've been amazed at how good they are, and after playing with those crappy expensive to use" propane heaters for years and the Propane heater that came with the RV, I Am soooo happy to have found this Great little dry heat heater. There on sale for 94.00$ right now. I'll buy another for a backup and parts. Thanks my friend. Maybe u should do a Propane Cost Comparison, show people how much they can save. Because the cost savings is hugh.
That's a very good point you've made and one that is often overlooked. These heaters produce a dry heat. I've been in workshops where the water is literally running down the walls as they have a propane fired heater running.
I gotta say you sound exactly like Billy Connelly, it is uncanny how exactly the same you sound, that would be possibly something to look into as a voiceover stand in for him
Continued success
Fabrizio
@David McLuckie you can jump direct to the tuning settings if you hold left and right keys for a while ;-)
Nice. I had planned just to use the AB web interface but the access point in the workshop decided it no longer like wireless clients.
Soooo in depth. I haven't even purchased my heater yet. It's quite warm where I live but will probably be out on the road before long and will need night time heat.
I plan on a centerfuge cleaning and burning waste oil
Make sure you mix it with a bit of diesel to thin it out
@@JimLahey21 Do you recommend a ratio?
@@preachers4135 just enough to make it thinner so the pump can pump it
You will rapidly clog your heater. Won't work.
I run my heater occasionally (campervan) with a few weeks per year high in mountains. when I got my heater a few years back, reading about people's units sooting very quickly I set mine very lean to avoid that. My heater runs 90% of the time on idle at 0.8Hz and some 1900rpm. This explains why I never had problems going into mountains and staying at 2000m a.s.l. - the mixture wasn't running as lean as usual, it was getting slightly richer for the 25% less oxygen at that elevation. I also always assumed many people had problems with the soot because they fit all sorts of long exhausts with silencers restricting the gas flow. I never bothered fitting any silencer, just the exhaust pipe with one big diameter bend and that's all. or maybe I'm just lucky and my heater is better quality? hell knows...
Thanks again for the update David, I’ll have to get a CO2 meter and try to set mine up. Just as a starting point could you let me know what would be a good starting point?
Thanks again
_Interresting, and learned something new. It never occurred to me to use my CO smart sensor to help fine-tune the heaters. I bet it would work for high attitude tunning! If the controller does have a high altitude setting. That brings another question does the high altitude setting on the controller changes the fuel ratio down at a predetermine setting?_
I realize it could upset the turbulence required for combustion stability, but I wonder if a little porting of the inlet and outlet would help these things be less sensitive to restrictions and high winds. (particularly at altitude, as I have been monkeying with mine constantly at 10,000ft)
You can adjust the mixture by adjusting the hrz and watch the heat bars on the display, set the heater at max temp, keep turning down the fuel until the last bar goes away, then turn it up until every bar is lit up👌 Then you will have a good mix of fuel and air, and the heater will burn effectively as it can..
They don't seem to change on mine for some reason. I tuned mine using a CO sensor, it was surprising how much a small change in Hz dramatically increased the Carbon Monoxide produced (and made it less efficient). for my unit 4.6-4.8Hz @4500 rpm fan speed gave 20-24ppm CO, 5.0Hz was 30 plus and then rose dramatically. Low setting 1.7Hz @:1500 RPM was around 9ppm CO, 1580 rpm increased the CO, 1.4Hz@1500 was over 150ppm. Only ran for 2 hours, so these settings might change, and yours would be different.
David I noticed that the expensive ones has self adjusting a elevation for air to fuel mixed, does the after burner do self adjusting for elevation?
The more correct question is does the ECU react to the height information supplied by an Afterburner (if fitted with a pressure sensor), or even OEM controller.
Sadly my tests with the 3 styles of ECU I have, that are compatible with an Afterburner, say no.
There may be other units that do not work with an Afterburner that may self adjust, but this family of heaters that David is playing with do not.
Do you think you could do a video testing on peaple placing the heater in diferente places affecting the airflow maybe mesure the airflow speed coming out with a meter in my case mine is in the corner with only 2cm gap from the big round airintake
Yay some interesting answers here :)
Great video. Do you know, is there a chart that relates these numbers to use at various altitudes? Apparently there are issues driving in the mountains
Yes there is, on the CDH facebook group. Gives ballpark settings for 2kW with 18 and 22ml pump and 5kW heaters with 22ml pump
Take those generalized graphs with a grain of salt. The generalized reduction in fuel only gets you so far into the sky. Somewhere around 9k ft, combustion intake air temp starts playing a definable role.
Hi David
I have fitted quite a few of these heaters in campers and love you posts and learnt loads from you .. I have the same carbon mon tester as you and I have never on a 5kw or 2kw heater got a good reading under 1.6 hz ?
Everyone I fit I won’t programme them to go less than 1.6 hz 1500 rpm ..
Have you found this to be the case ?
Ta
Glen
Yes, although I haven't tried any 2KW heaters yet. Under 1.6 I suspect the burn chamber cools too much to allow a good burn.
@@DavidMcLuckie yes mate and the carbon monoxide goes shooting up again ..
The 2kw have a smaller pump as you will know but still can’t get them to go lower levels
@@yicafresh that's interesting. My 5kw is smoky and high co levels below 1.6 too. I like to run below these settings for my small van but I'm concerned about carbon build up. I wonder if running at full power for a couple of minutes before shutting down would clear the burner. ??
It’s the same principle when I am servicing Combined heat and power units.
adjusting for the fine balance between Co & Nox For the lambda sensor.
One of those cases where less is more, yet more is less, which just confuses me thinking about it... :P
Was there a link to buy the Co2 sensor? Or can anyone tell me the make and model please? Great strapline intro and a unique USP for David's videos. Keep up the great work my friend and all the best for 2023.
One like this - s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DkG8pGx
You can get them on Ebay and Amazon as well.
Have you done or thought of doing any tests with a larger capacity fuel pump? I think these tend to be 22ml pumps but I've seen someone in the USA testing one using a 28ml pump, so I'd be interested on the difference in 'behaviour' of the heater between running a 22ml pump at higher HZ or a 28ml pump on lower HZ.. I'm curious about that one.
Hey, can you say "purple burglar alarm" for me? Thanks.
That's great,
Which means a heater unit could be used to fire a forge. Not hot enough to produce hammer welds or molten/smelting iron. But enough to bend /straighten and manufacture. An adapted "heater" would be easier to carry and cheaper than a small farriers forge and quicker to use and pack away.... Right pencil and pad and thinking cap... 🤔
Great video David.
Have you found the Uni-t temp sensor to be reasonably accurate? I looked at it but they just seem so cheap, I was a bit suspicious. I have other Uni-t stuff and I'm happy with them. I was just curious.
Same as you I've got a few Uni-T things and they all seem to be of reasonable quality. Without an expensive calibrated unit to compare with I don't know how accurate it is.
@@DavidMcLuckie Thanks for that. As long as its reasonably accurate it'll do for what I need it for. Thanks.
the noise you refer to, I had it REALLY bad on a chinese branded heater which was labeled to go up to 8kw (controller actually went up to 9kw)... would sound like a roaring jet/flamethrower for the first 5-10 minutes (depends on how cold the heater was)... after using it like such for a few months, had no problems with it other than the complaint of loud roaring noises (low and rumbly) at start-up... shut-down wasn't an issue at all.... i'd have to say the controller is/was set up differently to the 5kw versions (in reality they're ALL 5kw bodies) just with different burners to accommodate the rating... at least that's my opinion due to similar casing sizes but the 5kw burner being slightly smaller than the 8kw burner... ever have the same issue i describe? unless you've already mentioned it (I may have missed it)
One of my other heaters does exactly as you described but I couldn't get this one to make the same noise. It must be a combination of factors that isn't happening this time. I had a 5KW make the noise installed in camper van but it went away after I tuned it.
@@DavidMcLuckie i would have to say it would've been the dosing pump... not all pumps are the same (as far as i can tell when it comes to these heaters)... and an aggressive dosing rate? not entirely sure but that's my thoughts.
Thanks! That meter is good idea!
Can you leave a link for that gas meter please? Someone? Anyone?...👽.
@@sargetester99 I found it on aliexpress. Search for co2 meter
Thanks David - interesting episode and info as normal.
The melting point of aluminium is 660oC, aluminium alloys are generally lower, although aluminium bronze is 1027 - 1038oC, so how can the chamber be 900 to 1200oC? I have dobuts about that temperature reading, though it is Interesting to know that the temperature is very high and therefore they must use some pretty special aluminium alloy to cast the burn chambers.
So that probe is deep inside the steel burner chamber where the temperature will be a lot hotter. Another thing to note is the aluminium is being constantly cooled by the air flow. If you were to stop cooling and keep the burner at max power you might be able to melt some of the interior. :)
in the 0.8hz mode can it be useful to connect an undersized pump to decrease the air-fuel ratio? as actually happens in the 2kw version
translated with google translate
Thank you for all your Great Work Sir.
I have a question, do you have a video showing the differences between gasoline and diesel heaters ?
do any of these run on propane or other fuels ?
if not, maybe a good video topic.
Thankin Yee from boston usa 🙏🌺🦉
I've tested running on a few fuels but I'm going to revisit running on gasoline again.
@@DavidMcLuckie thank you my main question is are they different machines or are they the same exact machine running on a different fuel like gasoline and Diesel,
The Chinese ones are just the same heater listed as gasoline or diesel. They don't really run well on gasoline.
@@DavidMcLuckie I've been wondering this for over a year since I've seen these damn things thank you very much now I finally know. 🌺
Have you tried pre heating the fuel?
Man, i liked that you put al the effort in, but I would have liked to see the chamber temp and fan speed specs on 0.8. and you showed the chart but forgot to show the whole sheat you wrote down, also when you put it to 10 Hz I would like to see the chamber temp cause that's the only thing I can go on on my heater Wich shows the chamber heat true the controller. So that's where I base my specs on. Thanks for the effort but I would have loved to see all the details in full!
Going to connect up my gas analyser to the exhaust to see what the Emissions are Nox & co . Will be interesting to see
NOx is a good idea. I think one of my gas meters shows NOx as well. What do you think would be a 'good' number to see?
Interesting question 🤔 Anything under 100 on each would be good. Will be in work tomorrow so will have a look👍
I’m I’m guessing Nox 100 Co 40/50ppm
But will let you know tomorrow
@@DavidMcLuckie
Well I got the gas analyser on it.
I am impressed.
CO -18ppm NOx 41ppm
Those are nice numbers. You've got lucky with that heater. :)
From what I gather, just run it on fuel oils. Solvents are no good. Thanks for the experimentation.
So the settings are tuned for lowest CO. Does that also correspond to highest burn temp ?
If so is that burn temp easier monitor ?
Tuning for lowest CO you end up with the lowest sustainable burn temperature. Dip under that threshold and the CO goes up and down as the chamber goes out and relights continuously.
Not easy to monitor, you can see the housing temp on the display but it doesn't react as quickly as the CO reading, or the probe I drilled into the core of a heater.
Didn't see the numbers at 10 PPM. Did the flame temp go down?
Oil burner techs tune A/F by measuring the exhaust temp. So I've been told. Either too rich or lean causes lower exhaust temp. Max temp is just right. A plot of this variable would be cool.
Nice scientific treatment of this issue David. Thanx. :)
p.s. O2 detectors on propane heaters use the pilot flame with a thermocouple in front of it. When the O2 level drops the flame front slows down and uncovers the thermocouple. As low a drop from 20% to 19% will do it. FYI.
I think the problem with running these thing indoors is that the O2 in the air is replaced with CO2 and eventually drives the O2% too low. That's when incomplete combustion occurs and CO goes up.
Yes, flame temperature dropped.
Damn it I've been using my 2kw heater on 1.0hz at 1500rpm maybe I need to up the ante.
Hello!
Can you run the heater in different orientation and show the results. I tried to run mine on its side with the exhaust facing away from me and I had white smoke from the exhaust.
I got no idea why orientation has any side effect. No one has covered this topic.
I have a little - th-cam.com/video/MziTxqGOyjw/w-d-xo.html
@@DavidMcLuckieI have seen that video.
But I'm looking for more about how different orientations effects the heater and why.
Can't it be mounted vertically for instance?
This is when the egr cooler in the exhaust wins, catch that waste heat for water
You run these heaters indoors? Put that exhaust outside, some idiots have allready injured from running these things inside :/
Currently have three varieties of CO alarm running just to be safe. The heaters running don't produce that much CO if tuned properly.
😎💥👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻💥😎
Pizza oven 😁