Thanks again David. It was McL University that got 1 of the 2 2kw heaters i was sent to finally run and stay running. The first would ignite and run up to 1 or 2 yellow bars then drop back a bar before shutting down with an E08 error after 10 minutes or so. Factory settings were upper end 4500 rpm and 4.2 hz. The replacement would not ignite at all. E10 error every time. That came set at 4250 an 3.4 hz. I stripped both and assembled 1 of the better looking organs. Lots of internal fit and finish variation found. The reassembled unit was getting ready to shut down again when i upped the top fuel setting. I then bumped the upper fuel rate incrementally until i got both red bars to light and stay lit. This required 6.4 hz of fuel, which sounds high but nothing less would hold full heat. No excessive smoke observed. Output air temp was about 180f . I still need to set the low end fuel and probably do it all again when i start recirculating air in the final install, but i will invest in a CO meter first. Ive also ordered a few bits i mangled in the take apart to allow me to further test the poor stepchild frankenheater. The best amazon review i saw on one of these said "You aren't buying a heater. You are buying a new hobby."
David, thanks for all your hard work on these. In my experience, changing the pump to one with a different value makes the biggest change to how it runs. I really wish they would make more delivery rate pumps available for tuning. I would like to see a wide range of pump delivery values made available. So far all I can find is 16 - 18 - 18.5 and 22 ml In my testing there is a measurable change in the mixture and temperature with every 0.5ml change in pump volume. At the very least 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 and 22ml should all be available IMO.
I like to equate David to the astronauts of the 50's what with him having to breathe all that CO in a confined space for us to be able to gather intel on these heaters. :) TY David for your service; sacrificing your health and well-being once again for the greater good of the community. Great videos, bud! Love it!
This is interesting... I purchased a diesel heater a little over a week ago and it runs between 204 and 212 C ... I ran it on diesel for the first fire up, and then switched over to a waste oil mix and it ran for two days before needing to be cleaned out. If I would have watched your videos first, I would have not purchased one because I bought it specifically to burn waste oil after seeing others say that it was perfect for that and you have to clean it out every few years... Yes... I know now that that is not the case. ANYWAY. I have had it apart to clean it out 8-6 times, and even after running it on diesel, I had issues with it building up carbon and shutting down. The last time it was 12 hours before it needed to be cleaned. I noticed on my last disassembly that there was a substantial gap between the fan housing and the fan, I pushed the fan on until it was a few thousandths of an inch away from the housing and reassembled. After watching this video, and seeing the issue with my fan, I think that 1. My heater is getting too much fuel / not enough air 2. some of the not enough air issue may have been due to the fan gap 🤷♂ . Also, I'm in Alberta Canada and am at 4000 ft elevation ... I have one of the blue controllers... I don't think that I have the ability to change the fueling oo fan speed... I have watched a few videos on how to do things on the controller and mine seems to be different / lacking much of the functions of others. The unit is branded as VEVOR and was purchased in Canada. I have switched over to diesel and will run a few tanks of that through it and see if I have any issues... It has already run longer than 12 hours, so I think the fan was part of the issue. PS. Because this comment wasn't long enough already.... I appreciate the effort and actual testing that you put into your videos... I am constantly infuriated with idiots on the internet that use something for half an hour and then post their "expert findings" on the internet, or just think that they have to pretend that everything they do is genius, so they can't bring themselves to admit when something is a failure. Your content is refreshing.
I'm in the exact situation you are. Like exact. I think our units blow too much air through the combustion chamber. I'd really like to be able to tune the pump rate and fan rate. Waiting for someone to crack the 3 digit code. I might try restricting the exhaust.
@@originalAtreyu I have been running mine on diesel since Monday (non stop), and found out how to switch it over to high elevation mode. You push and hold the top two buttons, (settings and ok) and blue mountains appear on the screen. I took it apart this evening to check it out, and it had actually cleaned itself out considerably and was running very clean. After running on pure diesel in alpine mode. I then switched over to waste oil and gasoline 50/50 and had some obvious / instant issues ... it lit fine and made decent heat but the cloud of blue smoke was intense ! I assumed that this was because my thinned mix was too thin, so I went back to my previous mix of 1 litre of gas to 3 litres of oil and it got better, but it's still making an awful smoke / stink, and I assume that I will have to clean it out some time really soon. I may have to start over from square one as some of the waste oil that I used likely already had some diesel and gasoline in it, so my mix ratios above might not have even been close. Something isn't the same, because, other than carbon, it ran ok on waste oil and gas in the past, and now it's like a dumpster fire. Side note... It is somewhat counter intuitive, but these like to run rich and make a lot more heat that way. I had a hard time getting mine to start on oil, as it would flame out as soon as the fan started to speed up, SO... I caused a restriction by blocking part of the inlet with my finger, and 1. it actually fired up, 2. it heated up really quickly 3. once it was up to operating temp, 170C in alpine mode, I was able to get the temp up over 200C by blocking some of the inlet off ... I have no idea what this is doing in regards to soot, smoke and carbon monoxide ... (I assume it can't be good, but the heater sure did put out a butt load of heat !!
We found that with the water heater when we tried running it for shower water. It'll get very, very hot if you keep adding fuel. Right up to the black smoke. I've been told with enough air and fuel it'll melt the aluminum. :)
@@DavidMcLuckie This makes perfect sense considering people build diesel and waster oil forging ovens and smelting burners for melting metal. Diesel is curious in that way ... In an old naturally aspirated diesel you run a wide open intake, and run them super lean to make less power and keep adding fuel to go faster / make more power. Gasoline (and other fuels) on the other hand, have a much smaller window of combustible mix ratios.... or ratios that will produce an efficient / complete combustion.
You are welcome and yes I am Canadian :). The settings with these heaters are such an issue with these heaters even out of the box. We see some soot up in hours. The higher the fuel setting is will actually end up producing less heat as the unit soots up as the soot insulates the heat exchanger. Or the fuel can also flood it in some cases before it can even wind up to max. They just can't move the air through them fast enough with the fan speed limited at 5000. And you can't really make the exhaust path much more free flowing inside the heater as you will have even more heat loss out the exhaust. When they soot up the heater will start smoking white unatomized fuel out the exhaust and giving a flame extinguished code (e08) because the heater computer thinks it's not running as the temp sensor is on the outside of the heat exchanger. Thanks for the update video. For the more expensive analyzer you bought they actually make a sniffer pump for them so you can put it closer in the exhaust path and you will get better results. But all in all you definitely have a better tune than when you were running 7hz pump speed ! ;)
Hey man, can you tell me what the ideal inner case temperature is, for not soothing up? I'm trying to run it as lean as possible not all for the less fuel but also because I have to heat a tiny space.
@@kareljansen3992 ideal case temp should be 125c at the minimum Hz setting and 180c at the max Hz heat setting according to the tuning method found at " thedoble daht cohm ". I have no idea how he found out those parameters though...
Thanks for posting David! Mine sooted up with factory settings during first season altered using chamber temperature achieved better result next season but CO meter is far superior.
Hi David first of all thanks for making such great videos! I recently re-tuned a 2 kw heater that was not working very well, the unit would resonate at low Hz / fan speed settings like a pulsing drone sound. After much experimenting I found that the first thing that needs to be set is the minimum fan speed and in this case the minimum fan speed had to be set at 2050 rpm. I then set the minimum Hz setting to 1.2, any lower I would find my CO levels were very high. This not only solved the pulsing "drone" sound, it maintained a steady heat output reaching 1 red bar. My CO level at 1.2Hz seemed to hover around 50ppm. The higher settings were 3.2Hz and 4300RPM - at the highest setting the CO was still around 50ppm. I am running the heater on kero.
Since writing my post I have discovered that a few of my CDH actually run very lean and no amount of adjusting the fan speed or the fuel flow seems to lower CO levels or increase heat output - So I decided to reduce the air flow into the combustion chamber by covering up some of the holes on the intake silencer and straight away the casing heat increased and the CO decreased - My lowest setting is now 1.2hz @ 1550RPM with a casing temp if 120DegC@@garyfullerton9312
@@funnyminky Correct, by lowering the fan speed you can keep the combustion temperature high at the cost of output air flow volume, I run mine a 1.6 at 1800 but have had it as low as 0.8 at 1200 and still had low CO but still a reasonable duct temperature of 70 C. So reduce fan to get two red bars at all times for given fuel rate.
I've been running mine at 3.3 pulse per second supposedly that's what that means and it runs very clean and provides really good Heat for approximately 200 ft uninsulated and the walls are primarily windows I've also been experimenting with biodiesel with mine and it seems to do good with that also outside of my area smells like a deep fryer LOL My next experiment is to find a way to Route the exhaust through a heat exchanger to provide added Heat
Thanks again David. Playing with diesel technology to keep me warm overnight in my tent in winter. Wood stoves are great but you have to keep stoking them and getting up every couple of hours is not good. Quietening the pump is the ongoing problem. Cheers.Jim.
I have just purchased the 5kw hcalory bluetooth. I've set it up outside on a steel cabinet with 2m exhaust with hot air running into house. I have the yellow co tested as in your video and set next to hot air pipe. I grt reading of between 10 and 50.
I've been testing one of the blue controllers with the plateau mode. Seems to work but it would be interesting to put the controller into an air tight container and increase or decrease the air pressure to observe it adjusting the air/fuel ratio with the CO meter.
@@DavidMcLuckie GREETINGS! Got diesel fumes coming into the living space on start-up and shutdown. Looks like it's going to have to be pulled apart to investigate. Also, can't get it to run lower than a "5 degrees" reading on the control panel which doesn't appear to mean anything. Different controls to yours, doesn't have anywhere near the adjust-ability. Cheap 3kw version.
Fit like David, I'm installing a 5kw in Velma, a caravan I use off-grid in my woodland near Midmar. The best location is under the nearside front seat, with the fuel tank in the front locker. But this has the exhaust going out through the bottom alu skirt with a double sleeve. This would be fine except I need to have the full awning in place as an outdoor workshop for fettling spurtles ect. Thank you for this vid, I do have 2 CO alarms and can place one oot in the awning area, but you got me to thinking the 3ring gas cooker is not vented, and I bet it kicks oot a fair bitty of CO when it's on full tilt. Of course you open the door top to let steam oot. The awning has big doors either end, so can be continuously vented na probs, and with an alarm, and after watching your vid; feel I can install it in this location. I was overthinking the exhaust venting into the awning, and it being no worse than a space heaters minimal risk, or those paraffin heaters we all still had back in the day . Once I had carried an almost spent small barbecue into the awning some years back. It was only glowing and producing no smoke or smell, so thought I could use some of it's heat fir the awning area, but after an hour it set off the CO alarm in the van. So I was not keen to vent into the awning, but realise it may be useful in negative temps to do so, and keep some open doors either side for continuous venting. Love yoor vids sir 👍
Nothing beats a proper combustion analyzer for setting anything that burns fuel. The problem is that testing CO (carbon monoxide) only will not give you the right settings. Outside of a stoichiometric flame you will get higher CO readings either because of too much fuel (rich) but also because of too much air (lean) the only way to tell them apart is to have a combustion analyzer which will also give you the O2 reading so that you can tune for the lowest achievable O2 reading with the lowest CO reading you can achieve. That will give you the best combustion possible but keep in mind that the CO reading may not go as low as you might want it to go as these units are not made to be the most efficient burners on the planet.
I don't disagree that a combustion analyser will do a far better job than purely a CO meter. But it will get you close enough. It's easy to tell on the diesel heater if CO is high because of too much or too little fuel. If it's too little the CO goes up and down like a yoyo as the burn chamber flames out and relights. Spending £85 on a diesel heater and then spending £400 on a combustion analyser doesn't make sense. Spending £30 on a CO meter to get close enough does though.
@@DavidMcLuckie I do agree that a big issue is price for a combustion analyzer. For the price of the diesel heaters I'd be looking to rent an analyzer if need be. Nice to see that there are some decent other DIY ways to get them tuned in to a decent burn
I have mine tuned at 5,000 rpm at 4.4 hz I get 100 PPM CO. When I go to the low end I have the pump set at .8HZ and the fan at 2600 RPM (which is the lowest and the highest I can go) The CO is greater than 2,000 PPM out of scale of my meter. Then intake and exhaust has like one bend each there is no restriction to the fan inlet or exhaust. I have one outlet diverter eyball on it with maybe 3 Inches of connector pipe. I am at a total loss!
Take the 5000rpm down to 4500 (you motor will last longer) and try taking the hz down to 3.5. See if that improves the CO reading. It's trial and error, what works on one heater setup might work work on another.
Too weak, you need to increase the fuel pump stroke. WEAK = SOOT. RICH = SOOT going too rich or too weak equals incomplete combustion then you get the result high CO and soot. Reduce the RPM with the same stroke will help but I really think the stroke is far too low anyway.
I dismantled mine after around 7 months on Kerosene and the green 0.028ml pump, with occasionally 210c and thr pump stroke automatically throttling back. Zero carbon Zero soot. Running flat out 25ppm CO. Mine is the preset motherboard with just alpine mode. In fact a weak mixture can also raise the CO level as can rich mixture. Excessive or lean mixtures create incomplete burn = soot. With the 0.022ml pump CO is higher but still acceptable. CO though at low level with alpine mode and the 0.022ml pump gives a CO reading of over 100ppm so too lean and incomplete combustion Hope this helps
Not sure if this is recommended, but I had one soot up to the point it wouldn't start only smoke. I took the intake and exhaust pipes off and blew the combustion chamber out with compressed air. I put the pipes back on and it fired right up. Now that I know about adjusting it to reduce the monoxide and soot I'll be doing that. I don't need all the heat it produces anyway.
The stoichiometric ratio is impacted by pressure slightly. Running slightly lean (relative to stoichiometric) leads to lower soot but higher NOX it's a loose one gain the other kinda thing.
Forgot to add, thanks again for these great videos! Been very useful for designing a closed liquid loop heater with these (chines water heater version) and erg heat exchangers. Thanks man!
NOx production is only an issue at much higher temps than the flame front in these heaters will produce, typically north of 1600°C regardless of a lean mixture.
David, I've really enjoyed your informative and experimental videos. Wondering if I could beg you to explain operation of the "blue" controller with the "red" remote at a speed that I can keep up with? So far, nobody has managed this feat, and I'm not getting the most out of my heater because of it. I'm a retired 45+ year mechanic in auto, aircraft, diesel, and motorcycles - you needn't dumb it down, only slow it down a bit. I'll be forever in your debt.
only a couple videos on the subject, and the guys go too fast - bink, bink, bink, and Bob's yer uncle - and I can't even see which keys they are pressing.
Its not impossible to have both Oxygen and CO (even unburnt hydrocarbons) in the exhaust stream in the same time. These burners (or possibly any burner) are not perfect. This is why I think it is practically not possible to adjust the settings to stoichometric without having soothing black smoke.
David. Have you considered what effect a cetane enhancer would have? I have no measurements to offer except that I found an improved mpg when I started using it and a comment from a garage that for its age my car engine was in excellent condition. I recently purchased a 110 Defender which ran very lumpily and I suspect one of the 5 cylinders was not firing. A year later after using the cetane enhancer all 5 cylinders fire perfectly and the starting problems have stopped. I am buying a heater in the new year and I will be adding some enhancer to the diesel (or heating oil) I will be using.
The heaters ECU stores the settings. The LCD controller also stores settings. If a new LCD has different settings to the ECU, the ECU is immediately overwritten by what is on the controller when plugged into the heater and powered on
Why does the controller (Blue type) on a 5kw unit allow the minimum hertz to be set down to 0.8 in the settings menu but when heater working will not go lower than 1.6 hertz. Is this a default value hard programmed into control unit. Have another 5kw heater that allows this adjustment.? Thanks
As to the cleaning, I run WVO in my diesel Truck which is fueled right up for power. This can easily cause the rings to coke up. I run a very simple water injection system to stop this from happening and keep the thing clean. I would suggest a slow drip of water into one of these heaters would have the self same effect and stop the thing sooting. The hard thing with WI is trying to get through to people it does NOT have to be complicated, precise or expensive, it just has to be there. I small drip, I reckon even 50 ml an hour would have beneficial effects for cleaning. Could even go water methanol and get a bit more heat without any sooting at all and in fact have a better cleaning effect. Another great Vid Dave, keep up the interesting and well tested work!
@@JimLahey21 That would probably do it. I like regular admission myself. I was thinking a simple Pulse pump on a timer firing for one sec every Minute or what ever would be good. Just let it in the intake and work it's way through and should be fine. No need for mists or nozzles.
I had actually been thinking about this after a few people asked if there was anything you could run through them to clean the soot. It's certainly something I'd be happy to experiment with. :)
I'm not sure that would apply in the heater as you still only have the piddly little impeller fan that moves the air/exhaust through the heater and no high pressure from the compression ignition to make superheated steam.
Showing the difference in temperature seems a little pointless without comparing the fuel consumption as it doesn't show the efficiency. A little bit cooler and a lot cleaner with lower fuel consumption would be my preference. Great video though on how to adjust and the impact of that.
I'll need to do one with an EGT sensor inside the burner. That would let us see an almost instant change in burn temperature when we alter the fueling. Then we could match that with the CO.
Started watching your videos recently. In this one I imagine you are Beaker from the muppets, gradually getting more and more off your face on fumes as your voice gets squeaky towards the end!! 😂
Great video! You mention turning down the Hz for a cleaner burn, but when I do this my CO increases! For example CO output on 1.6Hz is >1000ppm but on 4Hz is around 100ppm. I want to run mine on low (around 1.6-2Hz) but with minimal CO. Do I need to increase my fan speed? 🤔
There is a point where there is not enough fuel or air and the core flames out briefly then relights and the CO output oscillates. You could try adding a restriction into the exhaust to keep the hot gas inside longer to keep the burn going.
I forget what I set my fan speed at I think about 3K and programmed my control box to where I can go through and adjust the pulse of the fuel pump without having to go through major settings (push both the top buttons on both sides at the same time) try doing that haven't checked my readings yet but I can't smell it running and I'm running biodiesel which smells like a deep fryer most of the time
1. I always set and run my heater so that there is the lowest freq possible at the low end (being 0.8Hz) and raising revs a little (some 1900) with the top end being similar, something like 4.0Hz at 5000 revs. my thinking was that diesel soots when it runs rich. when it runs lean, although it will be producing more CO at least it won't be sooting up, so I'd rather be on that end of the scale. is my thinking correct? 2. does the type of the controller you've got on the video allow you to run it in 'temperature mode' so that instead of setting the constant freq of the pump you set the target temperature? I've got a bit different style controler (with rectangular buttons and no timer) and I can switch between Hz mode and temperature mode. I've been always running the latter. That way it kicks in on full power when the temperature drops below the set by some 1-2 degrees, it runs until reaches the target temperature and then goes down to the lowest setting and stays there until the temperature drops again. I've always found this mode best. Now I'm considering buying myself a CO meter like the one shown in the video. I've got a CO alarm but the reading is so delayed it's no good for measuring the exhaust. plus the alarm is so loud. looking at graphs showing emissions dependent on the AFR for diesel combustion the conclusion is THE LEANER the less particulate matter. it kind of proves what I assumed above. there's a point where your CO emissions drop to their minimum level but when you keep leaning the mixture further, your CO emissions will go up, but PM emissions (which I assume form soot) will keep dropping and dropping. of course it's best to keep everything in balance so that you get good emissions, low soot but also maximum power output. but when we talk about our diesel heaters what matters the most for us is minimizing the soot formation and it seems the leaner we get, the better. this is why I always tried to set my heater so that the pump frequency is the lowest possible at a raised fan RPM level for more air. I often read on chinese heaters groups people had too much heat in their vans even on their lowest setting. I always assumed the reason behind it was their vans were much better insulated than mine. but I've got a very small van (SWB boxer) and I never feel too hot. maybe that's because with my settings my heater at idle normally runs at 60-70 celsius (that's what my controller shows). maybe if people run theirs on higher minimum pump Hz they run much hotter (for the cost of more soot obviously).
Question: Does a diesel heater always running on lowest setting carbon up even when the air/fuel mix has been optimized to under 15ppm using a CO meter?
here is my Comment There are many like it But this one is mine . . . . Canadian Dolla or Spondulaks.... ------ Zero Is The Number Of Fecks Dougal Gave Thank you for nice video . . .
I am getting a diesel drip from my air intake tube. Could this be a case of over fueling? Any recommendations on a calibration setting for a 5kw/8kw heater
I have 8kw all in one unit taken apart. I operate my Hz low at 1.2 and high at 3.6 Hz. And it burn so clean ass he.. Whats you thinking about this Hz settings?? Alsow I have fan speed at 2200 and 4500 rpm. And all red are on top. And tuned hight settings at 3. And I have it in a boat
I wonder if parafin oil or kerosene gives a cleaner burn I have used the heater over the winter and seems well set up for it and of course very cheap on the British Isles
Are you using the common Chinese knock off heater in this video? I’m hoping to recreate this same test with the Lavaner pro 2kw heater and am wondering if there are any differences I need to account for.
Hulloooooo Love the channel Scot living in Oz Diesel heater fan as in fanatic not fan lol I have a co monitor like yours I’m only running an all in one in a camper trailer, so all outside except the air inlet thru a mag coupling😊 Bench setting up I’m only after low heat as small area, but many run this and no cleaning needed, just want to get set for low temp long periods So max fan speed about 4000rpm The frequency, should I just reduce till min co2 then up a bit You said 2hz, did you mean, .2 hz? So reduce pump hz until lowest co reading then up 0.2? Have I got this right? Cheers Or should probably say “On yersel big man, that’s pure dead galous “. .😂
Tuning the high setting is the easiest as the heater reacts quicky. Set your fan to 4000rpm and start at 4.5hz on the pump. Let it run for 10 minutes then take a CO reading. If it's between 0 and 20 perfect. If not drop the pump 0.5 and take a reading. Rinse repeat. On the low setting you need to let it run a bit longer between adjust and test as it takes a little longer for the heater to cool down to the new setting.
@@DavidMcLuckie Hi Thanks for reply I’ve discovered my latest vevo has the Bluetooth controller app, and there’s very little you can tune from what I can see Monitor in post So kinda hoping it’s low n not need it
I have a house hold co meter that also detects propane and natrual gas smoke. How would I use it if exhaust is outside. A bucket to catch the co? I stick the unit close to the exhaust and it just starts to melt. Only thing it has beeped for is hydrogen gad from charging batteries.
@@DavidMcLuckie i was wondering if there would be any merit from intaking air from inside your vehicle as it would be dry and warm and crap free. Would give a positive air flow to remove moisture/ stale recycled air without having to open windows. downsides would be noise and any blow back i guess and of course if your vehicle was too well sealed to let enough fresh air in :o
What you gain in swapping the air around, you'd lose in heater efficiency as you are now pulling in cold air from outside to heat up. As opposed to continuously heating the same volume of air up to a temperature.
@@DavidMcLuckie i was referring to the combustion intake, if this was taking air from inside as opposed to outside. the air would be warmer and ensure a positive flow of air out of the vehicle (say a camper) to reduce humidity and stagnant air. you would need to ensure there was enough air intake leak into the cabin for this of course which i am sure most have by default.
That's what I mean. If you combust the air inside the vehicle, it has to be replaced with cold air from outside. Which as you say creates flow, but means you have to also heat up the new cold air. I'm sure someone could do the maths as to how much air is forced through the combustion process which would be ultimately how much air you are cycling and additionally heating.
Is it possible to turn up the idle litle so it dont goes so low ?? Lives in snow and ice. Temp come when it pump in full power. But it goes to low for me to hold temperatur litle higher whitout the burner goes crazy all the time. I understand it have to do that some times. But if idle litle higher it will not go on full pull so many times. I use this 24/7 cos i lives in boat and travle around in world. Will be Great help, so i am thankfull
You can. But also depending on the controller you can switch it between target temperature mode and pump frequency mode. This lets you run it at one speed regardless of the temperature. On the LCD controller you press and hold the up arrow and then press the settings button. The display will change to P-1.6 (or whatever pump hz its on) and then you can use the up and down arrows to choose a fuel pump speed and the heater will adjust the fan speed accordingly.
Hi David I have just fitted a 5kw heather , my problem is that the controller when I press the power button it goes straight into startup mode. There is no pump simbel or the temperature bar's on the screen and trying to change to hertz I get -09- that I can change from -01- to -09- this will speed up the fan and the heat. Is this an older controller or is it faulty?
Varying settings I have been able to reduce but not stop CO production at high output. A brand new one read 10, mine is in the hundreds. However when the temperature settles to my comfort level the output drops and CO rises to max. I cannot adjust a decent CO level for both high heat output and low. Any suggestions? Also one of my units will give a E -08 signal after attempting to fire. I get two bars then E-08. I have dissembled the unit and cleaned it well including the screen and small opening. Absolutely no carbon build up. No improvement.
I solved my problems by sequentially substituting new temp sensors, motherboards, and glow plugs using my spares until I got all three working. Each heater had one of these bad. Finally I could stop burning wood in the boat's fireplace to weather the coldest of this winter in San Francisco. I used the same CO as yours to adjust slow and high speeds to a minimal CO output, still high 50 at fast 100 at slow. My settings are 2.0 and 5.0 Hz, 2000 and 5000 RPM. At low output I get one red bar. Do you know if four bars, two green, two yellow will coke up or stay clean?
Are those heaters designed for the Consumer to tune for optimal performance or is what your doing something you stumbled upon while fiddling with the controller??? Great video thanks for sharing your testing 👍
@@DavidMcLuckie So what exactly are you doing and how would you know the heater isn't working correctly?, Reason for asking is I purchased (haven't received it yet) a 5kw for my 38' diesel pusher Motorhome to heat rather than using expensive propane which is a miserable damp heat.
I wonder - if the amount of soot (or not) at the exhaust pipe, is an indication of soot in the chanber. On my units so far, the exhaust pipes are shiny metal on the inside - not sooted up. Whereas I do know that it certainly can soot up there.
Varying settings I have been able to reduce but not stop CO production at high output. However when the temperature settles the output drops and CO rises. I cannot adjust for both high heat output and low. Any suggestions? Also one of my units will give a E -08 signal after attempting to I get two bars then E-08. I have dissembled the unit and cleaned it well including the screen and small opening. No improvement.
@@DavidMcLuckie While bench testing one of my three units will give a E -08 signal. I DO get two green bars then E-08. I have dissembled the unit and cleaned it well including the screen and small opening. Not coked and no improvement. Just a day ago it ran OK. When the units function (two now don't) and arrive at the desired temperature they throttle down and my CO meter ( the same as yours) goes to OL. This occurs after running full out with the best CO reading I can by adjusting Hz and fan speed. The single running one is now set at 1.1 &5.5 Hz, 1500 & 5000 RPM. My single functioning machine ( interestingly the oldest of three) settles at five bars when the desired temp is reached. I have successfully run it at 1.0 Hz for most of the winter. it settled at four bars, no red ones, no coking. Coking occurred only when 6 Hz or higher. Incidentally at how many bars will coking or flame out occur? Four seemed OK this winter. It's nice to discuss with one who has extensive experiential knowledge. Too many amateurs exist. I appreciate your assistance. It may be of interest : My installations are in my sailboat. Exhaust piping is not direct. One goes into the bilge then makes a 180 "U" turn and then straight up seven feet through the overhead (roof). The "U" is one inch copper water pipe. I used the smooth end of the corrugated pipe as a shim to fill in the difference between the US pipe ID of one inch and the aluminum exhaust fitting of 25 mm sealed with high temp silicone. After a cold miserable rainy winter the copper was burned nearly through. I am now changing to stainless. The second is less complex, less turns (two 90s) and shorter piping.
Additional info: My and a friend's machines need SN-2 to avoid copious white smoke and coking. Yours is SN-1. Any knowledge of why the difference? Others on boats have SN-1 settings.
No. Not really. That's not how CO poisoning works. It doesn't kill you instantly or poison you permanently. CO bonds to your red blood cells instead of oxygen. So you start to feel tired, nauseous, confused etc, until the point where you pass out. Then eventually you die from lack of oxygen. That's why it kills you when you are asleep. When you are asleep you don't experience the symptoms and just slowly pass into unconscious and then death. If you are awake and experience the symptoms all you have to do is move into fresh air and wait for your body to replace the CO in your blood with oxygen again which can take a few hours but you'll fully recover. So while CO is dangerous, at the rates a burning appliance like this generates it, it won't kill you instantly. I hope that makes some sense.
@@DavidMcLuckie so you are adjusting the fuel mixture by slowing the Hz (cycles the pump pumps per second) and not by changing any parts on the inside? So for 3000 meter altitude to get a low CO reading you would slow the pump (lean it out) and for sea level it would pump faster delivering more fuel? So does the fan speed change automatically or is this also adjustable? My apologizes as I have not installed mine yet. Mainly because of wanting to use it at higher altitudes and many people have said that they will just soot up in no time.................Thanks
Correct, no physical changes only changing the amount if fuel added which is the HZ setting on the controller. The heater only has two settings, a low power (which is also the starting setting) and high power. Assuming you're running a 4kw heater with a 22ml pump, at 3000m I'd aim for a low setting of 1600 rpm and 1Hz, high 4500 rpm and 2.2Hz. There is a bit of trial and error and I highly advise a CO meter to tune with.
My 2021 Vevo 8kw diesel heater was running fine and all of a sudden the 20amp fuse blew and when I replaced the fuse the unit turned back on ok but now the fan won't come on, it shows the picture of the fan spinning on the controll panel and then all of a sudden goes to error code E-06... i've have put 12 volts to the fan wires and it spins up free and fine so its not the fan motor, its as tho the fan is not getting any power to it can anyone please help.......
First one I picked off eBay - www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SMART-SENSOR-LCD-Carbon-Monoxide-Meter-CO-Gas-Tester-Monitor-Detector-Gauge-Tool/313053807607?epid=28037410077&hash=item48e37603f7:g:PwMAAOSwz5pelW1Y
TOTALLY VALID INFO here! I got my van one tuned in great now! Expect to spend ALOT of time getting this just right MAKE CERTIAN! there are NO air bubbles in the FEEDLINE! Yea spend lots of time trying to tune garage one saw the air and no wonder the CO is jumping so much!
Halloooo David don't go on about heating right now what about changing it into summer cooling fan by adding a tempiture controller and fan speed control would be good then it can change automatically to cooling can you do this for us in the summer HEAT?
Yes this heater can be a 12v fan with no CO2 and redundant in a heatwave and has a internal fan keeps the combustion chamber cooler OK its a 12v fan baa
I plan to use a 12,000 btu minisplit heatpump into a 8kw diesel heater into a ducted system in my RV. When heating with diesel, a DTDP 2 way switch connects the diesel heaters fan to its controls for normal operation. When using the minisplit heatpump, the DTDP switch disconnects both the negative and the positive from the diesel heater fan and routes them to a adjustable fan controller. This way it could be used as just a fan to circulate air or to aid the AC by being a second fan in the system.
Hey Neil, David will be running the heater backwards to cool the shed for summer. He'll also recover the fuel he's used. :) Downunder we are heading towards winter...still 20oC during the day but drops to 10oC at night - Melbourne, VIC.
This are old settings that have been going around the internet for a while now aren't they? We found a lot of the d4 clone size were sooting with the settings on the top end. But some seem to have good luck with them stock.
i have been runnig these settings in my 5kw heater for 2 years now on dyed diesel, regular diesel, and some kerosine, no problems at all. thats why i would like to see david review these settings whit the CO meter.
@@andrewbartleman9169 Yes, more recent setting seem to suggest 1.4/1650 and 4.5/4100, which give better general combustion and lower soot levels along with a longer fan motor life. I have been experimenting with 1.1/1450 and 4.0/4000 for a few months and seems to be reading 10 to 20 across the board on my CO meter, just remains to be seen if it will start up and maintain 10/20 CO and a good burn in cold weather at 1.1/1450 (for 24/7 background heating)...
@@Ra-zor My settings from the factory: Pump 1.4-5.4 and Fan 1500-4300. CO content didn't exceed 25PPM on any of the heat levels. So the heaters really are different to some extent.
Thanks again David. It was McL University that got 1 of the 2 2kw heaters i was sent to finally run and stay running. The first would ignite and run up to 1 or 2 yellow bars then drop back a bar before shutting down with an E08 error after 10 minutes or so. Factory settings were upper end 4500 rpm and 4.2 hz. The replacement would not ignite at all. E10 error every time. That came set at 4250 an 3.4 hz. I stripped both and assembled 1 of the better looking organs. Lots of internal fit and finish variation found. The reassembled unit was getting ready to shut down again when i upped the top fuel setting. I then bumped the upper fuel rate incrementally until i got both red bars to light and stay lit. This required 6.4 hz of fuel, which sounds high but nothing less would hold full heat. No excessive smoke observed. Output air temp was about 180f . I still need to set the low end fuel and probably do it all again when i start recirculating air in the final install, but i will invest in a CO meter first. Ive also ordered a few bits i mangled in the take apart to allow me to further test the poor stepchild frankenheater. The best amazon review i saw on one of these said "You aren't buying a heater. You are buying a new hobby."
David, thanks for all your hard work on these. In my experience, changing the pump to one with a different value makes the biggest change to how it runs. I really wish they would make more delivery rate pumps available for tuning. I would like to see a wide range of pump delivery values made available. So far all I can find is 16 - 18 - 18.5 and 22 ml
In my testing there is a measurable change in the mixture and temperature with every 0.5ml change in pump volume. At the very least 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 and 22ml should all be available IMO.
I like to equate David to the astronauts of the 50's what with him having to breathe all that CO in a confined space for us to be able to gather intel on these heaters. :) TY David for your service; sacrificing your health and well-being once again for the greater good of the community. Great videos, bud! Love it!
Another great video with many good points! I'll have to pick a meter up and mess with mine some!
This is interesting... I purchased a diesel heater a little over a week ago and it runs between 204 and 212 C ... I ran it on diesel for the first fire up, and then switched over to a waste oil mix and it ran for two days before needing to be cleaned out. If I would have watched your videos first, I would have not purchased one because I bought it specifically to burn waste oil after seeing others say that it was perfect for that and you have to clean it out every few years... Yes... I know now that that is not the case.
ANYWAY. I have had it apart to clean it out 8-6 times, and even after running it on diesel, I had issues with it building up carbon and shutting down. The last time it was 12 hours before it needed to be cleaned. I noticed on my last disassembly that there was a substantial gap between the fan housing and the fan, I pushed the fan on until it was a few thousandths of an inch away from the housing and reassembled. After watching this video, and seeing the issue with my fan, I think that 1. My heater is getting too much fuel / not enough air 2. some of the not enough air issue may have been due to the fan gap 🤷♂ . Also, I'm in Alberta Canada and am at 4000 ft elevation ...
I have one of the blue controllers... I don't think that I have the ability to change the fueling oo fan speed... I have watched a few videos on how to do things on the controller and mine seems to be different / lacking much of the functions of others. The unit is branded as VEVOR and was purchased in Canada.
I have switched over to diesel and will run a few tanks of that through it and see if I have any issues... It has already run longer than 12 hours, so I think the fan was part of the issue.
PS. Because this comment wasn't long enough already.... I appreciate the effort and actual testing that you put into your videos... I am constantly infuriated with idiots on the internet that use something for half an hour and then post their "expert findings" on the internet, or just think that they have to pretend that everything they do is genius, so they can't bring themselves to admit when something is a failure. Your content is refreshing.
I'm in the exact situation you are. Like exact. I think our units blow too much air through the combustion chamber. I'd really like to be able to tune the pump rate and fan rate. Waiting for someone to crack the 3 digit code. I might try restricting the exhaust.
@@originalAtreyu I have been running mine on diesel since Monday (non stop), and found out how to switch it over to high elevation mode. You push and hold the top two buttons, (settings and ok) and blue mountains appear on the screen.
I took it apart this evening to check it out, and it had actually cleaned itself out considerably and was running very clean. After running on pure diesel in alpine mode.
I then switched over to waste oil and gasoline 50/50 and had some obvious / instant issues ... it lit fine and made decent heat but the cloud of blue smoke was intense ! I assumed that this was because my thinned mix was too thin, so I went back to my previous mix of 1 litre of gas to 3 litres of oil and it got better, but it's still making an awful smoke / stink, and I assume that I will have to clean it out some time really soon.
I may have to start over from square one as some of the waste oil that I used likely already had some diesel and gasoline in it, so my mix ratios above might not have even been close. Something isn't the same, because, other than carbon, it ran ok on waste oil and gas in the past, and now it's like a dumpster fire.
Side note... It is somewhat counter intuitive, but these like to run rich and make a lot more heat that way. I had a hard time getting mine to start on oil, as it would flame out as soon as the fan started to speed up, SO... I caused a restriction by blocking part of the inlet with my finger, and 1. it actually fired up, 2. it heated up really quickly 3. once it was up to operating temp, 170C in alpine mode, I was able to get the temp up over 200C by blocking some of the inlet off ... I have no idea what this is doing in regards to soot, smoke and carbon monoxide ... (I assume it can't be good, but the heater sure did put out a butt load of heat !!
We found that with the water heater when we tried running it for shower water. It'll get very, very hot if you keep adding fuel. Right up to the black smoke.
I've been told with enough air and fuel it'll melt the aluminum. :)
@@DavidMcLuckie This makes perfect sense considering people build diesel and waster oil forging ovens and smelting burners for melting metal. Diesel is curious in that way ... In an old naturally aspirated diesel you run a wide open intake, and run them super lean to make less power and keep adding fuel to go faster / make more power. Gasoline (and other fuels) on the other hand, have a much smaller window of combustible mix ratios.... or ratios that will produce an efficient / complete combustion.
You are welcome and yes I am Canadian :). The settings with these heaters are such an issue with these heaters even out of the box. We see some soot up in hours. The higher the fuel setting is will actually end up producing less heat as the unit soots up as the soot insulates the heat exchanger. Or the fuel can also flood it in some cases before it can even wind up to max. They just can't move the air through them fast enough with the fan speed limited at 5000. And you can't really make the exhaust path much more free flowing inside the heater as you will have even more heat loss out the exhaust. When they soot up the heater will start smoking white unatomized fuel out the exhaust and giving a flame extinguished code (e08) because the heater computer thinks it's not running as the temp sensor is on the outside of the heat exchanger. Thanks for the update video. For the more expensive analyzer you bought they actually make a sniffer pump for them so you can put it closer in the exhaust path and you will get better results. But all in all you definitely have a better tune than when you were running 7hz pump speed ! ;)
Have you got a link to your facebook group and I'll stick it in the description?
@@DavidMcLuckie facebook.com/groups/146837062640024/
Hey man, can you tell me what the ideal inner case temperature is, for not soothing up? I'm trying to run it as lean as possible not all for the less fuel but also because I have to heat a tiny space.
@@kareljansen3992 ideal case temp should be 125c at the minimum Hz setting and 180c at the max Hz heat setting according to the tuning method found at " thedoble daht cohm ". I have no idea how he found out those parameters though...
Thanks for posting David! Mine sooted up with factory settings during first season altered using chamber temperature achieved better result next season but CO meter is far superior.
Hi David first of all thanks for making such great videos! I recently re-tuned a 2 kw heater that was not working very well, the unit would resonate at low Hz / fan speed settings like a pulsing drone sound. After much experimenting I found that the first thing that needs to be set is the minimum fan speed and in this case the minimum fan speed had to be set at 2050 rpm. I then set the minimum Hz setting to 1.2, any lower I would find my CO levels were very high. This not only solved the pulsing "drone" sound, it maintained a steady heat output reaching 1 red bar. My CO level at 1.2Hz seemed to hover around 50ppm. The higher settings were 3.2Hz and 4300RPM - at the highest setting the CO was still around 50ppm. I am running the heater on kero.
Hi , also have 2kw heater …. Is your heater still working ok on 2050 rpm
Lower fan speed ?
Since writing my post I have discovered that a few of my CDH actually run very lean and no amount of adjusting the fan speed or the fuel flow seems to lower CO levels or increase heat output - So I decided to reduce the air flow into the combustion chamber by covering up some of the holes on the intake silencer and straight away the casing heat increased and the CO decreased - My lowest setting is now 1.2hz @ 1550RPM with a casing temp if 120DegC@@garyfullerton9312
@@funnyminky Correct, by lowering the fan speed you can keep the combustion temperature high at the cost of output air flow volume, I run mine a 1.6 at 1800 but have had it as low as 0.8 at 1200 and still had low CO but still a reasonable duct temperature of 70 C. So reduce fan to get two red bars at all times for given fuel rate.
I've been running mine at 3.3 pulse per second supposedly that's what that means and it runs very clean and provides really good Heat for approximately 200 ft uninsulated and the walls are primarily windows
I've also been experimenting with biodiesel with mine and it seems to do good with that also outside of my area smells like a deep fryer LOL
My next experiment is to find a way to Route the exhaust through a heat exchanger to provide added Heat
Thanks again David. Playing with diesel technology to keep me warm overnight in my tent in winter. Wood stoves are great but you have to keep stoking them and getting up every couple of hours is not good. Quietening the pump is the ongoing problem. Cheers.Jim.
Have you tried suspending the pump with zip ties?
I have just purchased the 5kw hcalory bluetooth. I've set it up outside on a steel cabinet with 2m exhaust with hot air running into house. I have the yellow co tested as in your video and set next to hot air pipe. I grt reading of between 10 and 50.
Informative and funny, especially with the captions on.
I've been testing one of the blue controllers with the plateau mode. Seems to work but it would be interesting to put the controller into an air tight container and increase or decrease the air pressure to observe it adjusting the air/fuel ratio with the CO meter.
That's a good idea. See if it does actually do any adjustments.
@@DavidMcLuckie GREETINGS! Got diesel fumes coming into the living space on start-up and shutdown. Looks like it's going to have to be pulled apart to investigate. Also, can't get it to run lower than a "5 degrees" reading on the control panel which doesn't appear to mean anything.
Different controls to yours, doesn't have anywhere near the adjust-ability. Cheap 3kw version.
Fit like David,
I'm installing a 5kw in Velma, a caravan I use off-grid in my woodland near Midmar.
The best location is under the nearside front seat, with the fuel tank in the front locker. But this has the exhaust going out through the bottom alu skirt with a double sleeve.
This would be fine except I need to have the full awning in place as an outdoor workshop for fettling spurtles ect.
Thank you for this vid, I do have 2 CO alarms and can place one oot in the awning area, but you got me to thinking the 3ring gas cooker is not vented, and I bet it kicks oot a fair bitty of CO when it's on full tilt. Of course you open the door top to let steam oot.
The awning has big doors either end, so can be continuously vented na probs, and with an alarm, and after watching your vid; feel I can install it in this location.
I was overthinking the exhaust venting into the awning, and it being no worse than a space heaters minimal risk, or those paraffin heaters we all still had back in the day .
Once I had carried an almost spent small barbecue into the awning some years back. It was only glowing and producing no smoke or smell, so thought I could use some of it's heat fir the awning area, but after an hour it set off the CO alarm in the van. So I was not keen to vent into the awning, but realise it may be useful in negative temps to do so, and keep some open doors either side for continuous venting.
Love yoor vids sir 👍
Nothing beats a proper combustion analyzer for setting anything that burns fuel. The problem is that testing CO (carbon monoxide) only will not give you the right settings. Outside of a stoichiometric flame you will get higher CO readings either because of too much fuel (rich) but also because of too much air (lean) the only way to tell them apart is to have a combustion analyzer which will also give you the O2 reading so that you can tune for the lowest achievable O2 reading with the lowest CO reading you can achieve. That will give you the best combustion possible but keep in mind that the CO reading may not go as low as you might want it to go as these units are not made to be the most efficient burners on the planet.
I don't disagree that a combustion analyser will do a far better job than purely a CO meter. But it will get you close enough. It's easy to tell on the diesel heater if CO is high because of too much or too little fuel. If it's too little the CO goes up and down like a yoyo as the burn chamber flames out and relights.
Spending £85 on a diesel heater and then spending £400 on a combustion analyser doesn't make sense. Spending £30 on a CO meter to get close enough does though.
@@DavidMcLuckie I do agree that a big issue is price for a combustion analyzer. For the price of the diesel heaters I'd be looking to rent an analyzer if need be. Nice to see that there are some decent other DIY ways to get them tuned in to a decent burn
Hi. I have the same heater with the blue new type controller. It keeps it's setting. Great video as always
I recommend running your heater and replacing it every year, so I can go to our local "Tip shop" and buy it for next to nothing. 😁
Has anyone used a flue gas analyzer on a eberspacher to see how well they actually run ?
I have mine tuned at 5,000 rpm at 4.4 hz I get 100 PPM CO. When I go to the low end I have the pump set at .8HZ and the fan at 2600 RPM (which is the lowest and the highest I can go) The CO is greater than 2,000 PPM out of scale of my meter. Then intake and exhaust has like one bend each there is no restriction to the fan inlet or exhaust. I have one outlet diverter eyball on it with maybe 3 Inches of connector pipe. I am at a total loss!
Take the 5000rpm down to 4500 (you motor will last longer) and try taking the hz down to 3.5. See if that improves the CO reading. It's trial and error, what works on one heater setup might work work on another.
Too weak, you need to increase the fuel pump stroke. WEAK = SOOT. RICH = SOOT going too rich or too weak equals incomplete combustion then you get the result high CO and soot.
Reduce the RPM with the same stroke will help but I really think the stroke is far too low anyway.
I dismantled mine after around 7 months on Kerosene and the green 0.028ml pump, with occasionally 210c and thr pump stroke automatically throttling back. Zero carbon Zero soot. Running flat out 25ppm CO. Mine is the preset motherboard with just alpine mode. In fact a weak mixture can also raise the CO level as can rich mixture. Excessive or lean mixtures create incomplete burn = soot. With the 0.022ml pump CO is higher but still acceptable. CO though at low level with alpine mode and the 0.022ml pump gives a CO reading of over 100ppm so too lean and incomplete combustion
Hope this helps
My CO monitor agreed with yours through youtube smellavision.
Not sure if this is recommended, but I had one soot up to the point it wouldn't start only smoke. I took the intake and exhaust pipes off and blew the combustion chamber out with compressed air. I put the pipes back on and it fired right up. Now that I know about adjusting it to reduce the monoxide and soot I'll be doing that. I don't need all the heat it produces anyway.
The stoichiometric ratio is impacted by pressure slightly. Running slightly lean (relative to stoichiometric) leads to lower soot but higher NOX it's a loose one gain the other kinda thing.
Forgot to add, thanks again for these great videos! Been very useful for designing a closed liquid loop heater with these (chines water heater version) and erg heat exchangers. Thanks man!
NOx production is only an issue at much higher temps than the flame front in these heaters will produce, typically north of 1600°C regardless of a lean mixture.
Isn't the whole notion of 'lean/rich' here a nonsense? As it can draw as much air as it likes - perfect ratio in all circumstances?
+-15 is excellent , Everything under 60ppm is not bad . 30 ich is ok.
My heater doesn't forget it's settings I pull the fuse all the time as mine turned on one day by its self as I was driving down the road
This one forgets, shame. Perhaps the realised this error and corrected it.
David, I've really enjoyed your informative and experimental videos. Wondering if I could beg you to explain operation of the "blue" controller with the "red" remote at a speed that I can keep up with? So far, nobody has managed this feat, and I'm not getting the most out of my heater because of it. I'm a retired 45+ year mechanic in auto, aircraft, diesel, and motorcycles - you needn't dumb it down, only slow it down a bit. I'll be forever in your debt.
only a couple videos on the subject, and the guys go too fast - bink, bink, bink, and Bob's yer uncle - and I can't even see which keys they are pressing.
Its not impossible to have both Oxygen and CO (even unburnt hydrocarbons) in the exhaust stream in the same time. These burners (or possibly any burner) are not perfect. This is why I think it is practically not possible to adjust the settings to stoichometric without having soothing black smoke.
David. Have you considered what effect a cetane enhancer would have? I have no measurements to offer except that I found an improved mpg when I started using it and a comment from a garage that for its age my car engine was in excellent condition. I recently purchased a 110 Defender which ran very lumpily and I suspect one of the 5 cylinders was not firing. A year later after using the cetane enhancer all 5 cylinders fire perfectly and the starting problems have stopped. I am buying a heater in the new year and I will be adding some enhancer to the diesel (or heating oil) I will be using.
In theory a cetane booster would be beneficial as it makes the diesel easier to ignite. It may help prevent carbon build up.
Would adding a little bit of gasoline help with the diesel igniting ?
I know it be a fine line between just right, and too much.
I don't understand why they have that PIN number, did they think someone might steal the heater's secrets or something? :P
Its to keep kids and nosy people from accidentally changing these settings.
You can really ruin the heater with some of these changes.
Push the two top buttons on each side simultaneously it will change to where you can get to the pulse with without having to go through the password
The heaters ECU stores the settings. The LCD controller also stores settings. If a new LCD has different settings to the ECU, the ECU is immediately overwritten by what is on the controller when plugged into the heater and powered on
When you use a larger rated lcd, plug it in and adjust settings, are you aware if it saves those settings.?
Why does the controller (Blue type) on a 5kw unit allow the minimum hertz to be set down to 0.8 in the settings menu but when heater working will not go lower than 1.6 hertz. Is this a default value hard programmed into control unit. Have another 5kw heater that allows this adjustment.? Thanks
As to the cleaning, I run WVO in my diesel Truck which is fueled right up for power. This can easily cause the rings to coke up. I run a very simple water injection system to stop this from happening and keep the thing clean. I would suggest a slow drip of water into one of these heaters would have the self same effect and stop the thing sooting. The hard thing with WI is trying to get through to people it does NOT have to be complicated, precise or expensive, it just has to be there. I small drip, I reckon even 50 ml an hour would have beneficial effects for cleaning. Could even go water methanol and get a bit more heat without any sooting at all and in fact have a better cleaning effect.
Another great Vid Dave, keep up the interesting and well tested work!
I like your idea, a t piece with a valve on the combustion air suction for maintenance burn chamber cleaning
@@JimLahey21 That would probably do it. I like regular admission myself. I was thinking a simple Pulse pump on a timer firing for one sec every Minute or what ever would be good. Just let it in the intake and work it's way through and should be fine. No need for mists or nozzles.
Interesting - so you drip water into the intake of the truck that is setup to run rich and the black smoke disappears from the clacker valve?
I had actually been thinking about this after a few people asked if there was anything you could run through them to clean the soot. It's certainly something I'd be happy to experiment with. :)
I'm not sure that would apply in the heater as you still only have the piddly little impeller fan that moves the air/exhaust through the heater and no high pressure from the compression ignition to make superheated steam.
I believe mine isnt tunable . Blue controller with aqua letters
Showing the difference in temperature seems a little pointless without comparing the fuel consumption as it doesn't show the efficiency. A little bit cooler and a lot cleaner with lower fuel consumption would be my preference. Great video though on how to adjust and the impact of that.
I'll need to do one with an EGT sensor inside the burner. That would let us see an almost instant change in burn temperature when we alter the fueling. Then we could match that with the CO.
Started watching your videos recently. In this one I imagine you are Beaker from the muppets, gradually getting more and more off your face on fumes as your voice gets squeaky towards the end!! 😂
Great video! You mention turning down the Hz for a cleaner burn, but when I do this my CO increases! For example CO output on 1.6Hz is >1000ppm but on 4Hz is around 100ppm. I want to run mine on low (around 1.6-2Hz) but with minimal CO. Do I need to increase my fan speed? 🤔
There is a point where there is not enough fuel or air and the core flames out briefly then relights and the CO output oscillates. You could try adding a restriction into the exhaust to keep the hot gas inside longer to keep the burn going.
I forget what I set my fan speed at I think about 3K and programmed my control box to where I can go through and adjust the pulse of the fuel pump without having to go through major settings (push both the top buttons on both sides at the same time) try doing that haven't checked my readings yet but I can't smell it running and I'm running biodiesel which smells like a deep fryer most of the time
Hey David. Great video as usual. 👍👍👍
I would monoatize your links to these readers and other products you use or recommend 👍👍👍
Brilliant video thank you 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
You using summer or winter diesel.I think you will find summer diesel best 😎
Helpful video, thank you!
1. I always set and run my heater so that there is the lowest freq possible at the low end (being 0.8Hz) and raising revs a little (some 1900) with the top end being similar, something like 4.0Hz at 5000 revs. my thinking was that diesel soots when it runs rich. when it runs lean, although it will be producing more CO at least it won't be sooting up, so I'd rather be on that end of the scale. is my thinking correct?
2. does the type of the controller you've got on the video allow you to run it in 'temperature mode' so that instead of setting the constant freq of the pump you set the target temperature? I've got a bit different style controler (with rectangular buttons and no timer) and I can switch between Hz mode and temperature mode. I've been always running the latter. That way it kicks in on full power when the temperature drops below the set by some 1-2 degrees, it runs until reaches the target temperature and then goes down to the lowest setting and stays there until the temperature drops again. I've always found this mode best.
Now I'm considering buying myself a CO meter like the one shown in the video. I've got a CO alarm but the reading is so delayed it's no good for measuring the exhaust. plus the alarm is so loud.
looking at graphs showing emissions dependent on the AFR for diesel combustion the conclusion is THE LEANER the less particulate matter. it kind of proves what I assumed above. there's a point where your CO emissions drop to their minimum level but when you keep leaning the mixture further, your CO emissions will go up, but PM emissions (which I assume form soot) will keep dropping and dropping. of course it's best to keep everything in balance so that you get good emissions, low soot but also maximum power output. but when we talk about our diesel heaters what matters the most for us is minimizing the soot formation and it seems the leaner we get, the better. this is why I always tried to set my heater so that the pump frequency is the lowest possible at a raised fan RPM level for more air. I often read on chinese heaters groups people had too much heat in their vans even on their lowest setting. I always assumed the reason behind it was their vans were much better insulated than mine. but I've got a very small van (SWB boxer) and I never feel too hot. maybe that's because with my settings my heater at idle normally runs at 60-70 celsius (that's what my controller shows). maybe if people run theirs on higher minimum pump Hz they run much hotter (for the cost of more soot obviously).
Brilliant man 😎👍❤️
So what is the ideal balance between btu efficiency (°C) and clean burn (low CO)?
An excellent question. And something I'll be exploring very soon in a video.
Question: Does a diesel heater always running on lowest setting carbon up even when the air/fuel mix has been optimized to under 15ppm using a CO meter?
Technically yes, but just a lot slower compared than a non-tuned heater.
here is my Comment
There are many like it
But this one is mine
. . . .
Canadian Dolla or Spondulaks....
------
Zero
Is
The Number
Of Fecks
Dougal
Gave
Thank you for nice video . . .
I am getting a diesel drip from my air intake tube. Could this be a case of over fueling? Any recommendations on a calibration setting for a 5kw/8kw heater
I have 8kw all in one unit taken apart.
I operate my Hz low at 1.2 and high at 3.6 Hz. And it burn so clean ass he..
Whats you thinking about this Hz settings??
Alsow I have fan speed at 2200 and 4500 rpm.
And all red are on top. And tuned hight settings at 3.
And I have it in a boat
I wonder if parafin oil or kerosene gives a cleaner burn I have used the heater over the winter and seems well set up for it and of course very cheap on the British Isles
Yes it will
Kerosene and Paraffin being a higher refined grade should give a cleaner hotter burn.
But will they lube the pump the way diesel does ?
@@carpenterfamily6198 yes kerosene boilers use a lube pump as well and run for years and are far more expensive than a dose pump in a parking heater.
Are you using the common Chinese knock off heater in this video? I’m hoping to recreate this same test with the Lavaner pro 2kw heater and am wondering if there are any differences I need to account for.
The process would be the same regardless of the heater. Except the Lavaner Alpines as they control their own fueling.
Hulloooooo
Love the channel
Scot living in Oz
Diesel heater fan as in fanatic not fan lol
I have a co monitor like yours
I’m only running an all in one in a camper trailer, so all outside except the air inlet thru a mag coupling😊
Bench setting up
I’m only after low heat as small area, but many run this and no cleaning needed, just want to get set for low temp long periods
So max fan speed about 4000rpm
The frequency, should I just reduce till min co2 then up a bit
You said 2hz, did you mean, .2 hz?
So reduce pump hz until lowest co reading then up 0.2?
Have I got this right?
Cheers
Or should probably say
“On yersel big man, that’s pure dead galous “. .😂
Tuning the high setting is the easiest as the heater reacts quicky. Set your fan to 4000rpm and start at 4.5hz on the pump. Let it run for 10 minutes then take a CO reading. If it's between 0 and 20 perfect. If not drop the pump 0.5 and take a reading. Rinse repeat.
On the low setting you need to let it run a bit longer between adjust and test as it takes a little longer for the heater to cool down to the new setting.
@@DavidMcLuckie 0:07
@@DavidMcLuckie
Hi
Thanks for reply
I’ve discovered my latest vevo has the Bluetooth controller app, and there’s very little you can tune from what I can see
Monitor in post
So kinda hoping it’s low n not need it
Ah that one. Yeah I didn't find any tuning on that one other than swapping out the fuel pump for a different size.
Just wondering once tuned would the application of diesel "redex" in the fuel help with longevity.
It certainly won't hurt. It's mostly a mixture of detergents in a suspension of kerosene. Anything that help keep it cleaner for longer is good.
@@DavidMcLuckie thank you.
I have a house hold co meter that also detects propane and natrual gas smoke. How would I use it if exhaust is outside. A bucket to catch the co? I stick the unit close to the exhaust and it just starts to melt. Only thing it has beeped for is hydrogen gad from charging batteries.
One issue i see is the air inlet to the burner is sucking in lots of burnt exhaust outlet , so starving it of air when you upped the fuel.
You are correct. But I did try with the air intake off to the side and it made a negligible difference to the CO output.
@@DavidMcLuckie i was wondering if there would be any merit from intaking air from inside your vehicle as it would be dry and warm and crap free. Would give a positive air flow to remove moisture/ stale recycled air without having to open windows. downsides would be noise and any blow back i guess and of course if your vehicle was too well sealed to let enough fresh air in :o
What you gain in swapping the air around, you'd lose in heater efficiency as you are now pulling in cold air from outside to heat up. As opposed to continuously heating the same volume of air up to a temperature.
@@DavidMcLuckie i was referring to the combustion intake, if this was taking air from inside as opposed to outside. the air would be warmer and ensure a positive flow of air out of the vehicle (say a camper) to reduce humidity and stagnant air. you would need to ensure there was enough air intake leak into the cabin for this of course which i am sure most have by default.
That's what I mean. If you combust the air inside the vehicle, it has to be replaced with cold air from outside. Which as you say creates flow, but means you have to also heat up the new cold air. I'm sure someone could do the maths as to how much air is forced through the combustion process which would be ultimately how much air you are cycling and additionally heating.
Is it possible to turn up the idle litle so it dont goes so low ??
Lives in snow and ice. Temp come when it pump in full power. But it goes to low for me to hold temperatur litle higher whitout the burner goes crazy all the time. I understand it have to do that some times. But if idle litle higher it will not go on full pull so many times.
I use this 24/7 cos i lives in boat and travle around in world.
Will be Great help, so i am thankfull
You can. But also depending on the controller you can switch it between target temperature mode and pump frequency mode. This lets you run it at one speed regardless of the temperature. On the LCD controller you press and hold the up arrow and then press the settings button. The display will change to P-1.6 (or whatever pump hz its on) and then you can use the up and down arrows to choose a fuel pump speed and the heater will adjust the fan speed accordingly.
@@DavidMcLuckie and yes it works Great man. Ty ty
Hi David I have just fitted a 5kw heather , my problem is that the controller when I press the power button it goes straight into startup mode. There is no pump simbel or the temperature bar's on the screen and trying to change to hertz I get -09- that I can change from -01- to -09- this will speed up the fan and the heat. Is this an older controller or is it faulty?
Depending on the controller and or which generation it is will alter which combination of buttons or holding of buttons to get the pump to prime.
Varying settings I have been able to reduce but not stop CO production at high output. A brand new one read 10, mine is in the hundreds. However when the temperature settles to my comfort level the output drops and CO rises to max. I cannot adjust a decent CO level for both high heat output and low. Any suggestions? Also one of my units will give a E -08 signal after attempting to fire. I get two bars then E-08. I have dissembled the unit and cleaned it well including the screen and small opening. Absolutely no carbon build up. No improvement.
I solved my problems by sequentially substituting new temp sensors, motherboards, and glow plugs using my spares until I got all three working. Each heater had one of these bad. Finally I could stop burning wood in the boat's fireplace to weather the coldest of this winter in San Francisco.
I used the same CO as yours to adjust slow and high speeds to a minimal CO output, still high 50 at fast 100 at slow. My settings are 2.0 and 5.0 Hz, 2000 and 5000 RPM.
At low output I get one red bar.
Do you know if four bars, two green, two yellow will coke up or stay clean?
Hi David i was wandering if i can use a FireAngel CO-9D Carbon Monoxide Detector instead of the AS8700A to make the tuning 😀
Probably not. That's the FireAngel I have on the shelf in the workshop. It's sample rate is pretty slow compared to the other meter.
@@DavidMcLuckie probably you are right 😊 .... but it's half price 😉
Are those heaters designed for the Consumer to tune for optimal performance or is what your doing something you stumbled upon while fiddling with the controller???
Great video thanks for sharing your testing 👍
You don't have to tune them. But some are setup terribly out of the box.
@@DavidMcLuckie So what exactly are you doing and how would you know the heater isn't working correctly?, Reason for asking is I purchased (haven't received it yet) a 5kw for my 38' diesel pusher Motorhome to heat rather than using expensive propane which is a miserable damp heat.
I wonder - if the amount of soot (or not) at the exhaust pipe, is an indication of soot in the chanber. On my units so far, the exhaust pipes are shiny metal on the inside - not sooted up. Whereas I do know that it certainly can soot up there.
No soot on your exhaust is a good sign. There may be a small amount inside but generally if it's black on the outside it's worse on the inside. :)
Varying settings I have been able to reduce but not stop CO production at high output. However when the temperature settles the output drops and CO rises. I cannot adjust for both high heat output and low. Any suggestions? Also one of my units will give a E -08 signal after attempting to I get two bars then E-08. I have dissembled the unit and cleaned it well including the screen and small opening. No improvement.
Does the one that E-08 (flame out) ever make it to two bars?
When you say temperature settles, do you mean when it starts to throttle the fueling?
@@DavidMcLuckie While bench testing one of my three units will give a E -08 signal. I DO get two green bars then E-08.
I have dissembled the unit and cleaned it well including the screen and small opening. Not coked and no improvement. Just a day ago it ran OK.
When the units function (two now don't) and arrive at the desired temperature
they throttle down and my CO meter ( the same as yours) goes to OL. This occurs after running full out with the best CO reading I can by adjusting Hz and fan speed.
The single running one is now set at 1.1 &5.5 Hz, 1500 & 5000 RPM. My single functioning machine ( interestingly the oldest of three) settles at five bars when the desired temp is reached. I have successfully run it at 1.0 Hz for most of the winter. it settled at four bars, no red ones, no coking. Coking occurred only when 6 Hz or higher.
Incidentally at how many bars will coking or flame out occur? Four seemed OK this winter.
It's nice to discuss with one who has extensive experiential knowledge. Too many amateurs exist. I appreciate your assistance.
It may be of interest : My installations are in my sailboat. Exhaust piping is not direct. One goes into the bilge then makes a 180 "U" turn and then straight up seven feet through the overhead (roof).
The "U" is one inch copper water pipe. I used the smooth end of the corrugated pipe as a shim to fill in the difference between the US pipe ID of one inch and the aluminum exhaust fitting of 25 mm sealed with high temp silicone. After a cold miserable rainy winter the copper was burned nearly through. I am now changing to stainless.
The second is less complex, less turns (two 90s) and shorter piping.
Additional info: My and a friend's machines need SN-2 to avoid copious white smoke and coking. Yours is SN-1. Any knowledge of why the difference? Others on boats have SN-1 settings.
You think there might be a risk standing in a cloud of CO for 20min+ where even the CO meter checks out? 🤔
No. Not really. That's not how CO poisoning works. It doesn't kill you instantly or poison you permanently. CO bonds to your red blood cells instead of oxygen. So you start to feel tired, nauseous, confused etc, until the point where you pass out. Then eventually you die from lack of oxygen. That's why it kills you when you are asleep. When you are asleep you don't experience the symptoms and just slowly pass into unconscious and then death. If you are awake and experience the symptoms all you have to do is move into fresh air and wait for your body to replace the CO in your blood with oxygen again which can take a few hours but you'll fully recover. So while CO is dangerous, at the rates a burning appliance like this generates it, it won't kill you instantly. I hope that makes some sense.
I still want to see a turbo put on one
AEM Wideband AFR are known to be off anyways
I was wondering it anyone has converted one of these to propane? Can a diesel heater run at 9000 feet (3000 meters) and up without sooting up?
At high altitude you can turn down the fueling for it to work.
@@DavidMcLuckie so you are adjusting the fuel mixture by slowing the Hz (cycles the pump pumps per second) and not by changing any parts on the inside? So for 3000 meter altitude to get a low CO reading you would slow the pump (lean it out) and for sea level it would pump faster delivering more fuel? So does the fan speed change automatically or is this also adjustable? My apologizes as I have not installed mine yet. Mainly because of wanting to use it at higher altitudes and many people have said that they will just soot up in no time.................Thanks
Correct, no physical changes only changing the amount if fuel added which is the HZ setting on the controller. The heater only has two settings, a low power (which is also the starting setting) and high power. Assuming you're running a 4kw heater with a 22ml pump, at 3000m I'd aim for a low setting of 1600 rpm and 1Hz, high 4500 rpm and 2.2Hz. There is a bit of trial and error and I highly advise a CO meter to tune with.
Also to add, the Lavaner Alpine Pro adjusts the fuel based on altitude and it decreases stock fueling by about 20% at that altitude.
@@DavidMcLuckie thanks so much!
Has anyone tried adding seafoam to keep carbon from building up?
My 2021 Vevo 8kw diesel heater was running fine and all of a sudden the 20amp fuse blew and when I replaced the fuse the unit turned back on ok but now the fan won't come on, it shows the picture of the fan spinning on the controll panel and then all of a sudden goes to error code E-06... i've have put 12 volts to the fan wires and it spins up free and fine so its not the fan motor, its as tho the fan is not getting any power to it can anyone please help.......
As you've tested the fan motor, that only really leaves the ECU board on the heater.
£20 for the meter ? Link please
First one I picked off eBay - www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SMART-SENSOR-LCD-Carbon-Monoxide-Meter-CO-Gas-Tester-Monitor-Detector-Gauge-Tool/313053807607?epid=28037410077&hash=item48e37603f7:g:PwMAAOSwz5pelW1Y
How do I adjust the hertz ?
On a Planar I don't know. They have their own controller and ecu setup.
More footage of the driftbaru
Driftbaru videos live here - th-cam.com/users/vPerformancevideos
What does the “sn” mean?
It's for selecting the type of speed signal the heater uses. I think it's a choice between 1 magnet or 2 magnets.
TOTALLY VALID INFO here! I got my van one tuned in great now! Expect to spend ALOT of time getting this just right MAKE CERTIAN! there are NO air bubbles in the FEEDLINE! Yea spend lots of time trying to tune garage one saw the air and no wonder the CO is jumping so much!
Do you like AVE
Who doesn't? :)
Halloooo David don't go on about heating right now what about changing it into summer cooling fan by adding a tempiture controller and fan speed control would be good then it can change automatically to cooling can you do this for us in the summer HEAT?
But it would just be recirculating the same warm air.
Try a 12v fan
@@DavidMcLuckie do what you please my friend. Theres those of us who respect whatever you put out
Yes this heater can be a 12v fan with no CO2 and redundant in a heatwave and has a internal fan keeps the combustion chamber cooler OK its a 12v fan baa
I plan to use a 12,000 btu minisplit heatpump into a 8kw diesel heater into a ducted system in my RV. When heating with diesel, a DTDP 2 way switch connects the diesel heaters fan to its controls for normal operation. When using the minisplit heatpump, the DTDP switch disconnects both the negative and the positive from the diesel heater fan and routes them to a adjustable fan controller. This way it could be used as just a fan to circulate air or to aid the AC by being a second fan in the system.
Any numbers would at least give me a start.
Who cares about your stupid heaters, now the great weather is here!!!?? I'll come grovelling back come the end of April....
Hey Neil, David will be running the heater backwards to cool the shed for summer. He'll also recover the fuel he's used. :)
Downunder we are heading towards winter...still 20oC during the day but drops to 10oC at night - Melbourne, VIC.
Get yourself a remote so you don't have to deal with them shit buttons
Still need the controller to tune
try these settings
Pmin=1.9, Pmax=5.5, RPMmin=1680, RPMmax=4410
This are old settings that have been going around the internet for a while now aren't they? We found a lot of the d4 clone size were sooting with the settings on the top end. But some seem to have good luck with them stock.
i have been runnig these settings in my 5kw heater for 2 years now on dyed diesel, regular diesel, and some kerosine, no problems at all. thats why i would like to see david review these settings whit the CO meter.
@@andrewbartleman9169 Yes, more recent setting seem to suggest 1.4/1650 and 4.5/4100, which give better general combustion and lower soot levels along with a longer fan motor life. I have been experimenting with 1.1/1450 and 4.0/4000 for a few months and seems to be reading 10 to 20 across the board on my CO meter, just remains to be seen if it will start up and maintain 10/20 CO and a good burn in cold weather at 1.1/1450 (for 24/7 background heating)...
@@Ra-zor My settings from the factory: Pump 1.4-5.4 and Fan 1500-4300. CO content didn't exceed 25PPM on any of the heat levels. So the heaters really are different to some extent.
😂
To many words matey, slow down a bit :)
I get too excited.
Very informative but I wonder if maybe you would not use the expletives - there may be children in the room.
Why would you be watching TH-cam with your children in the room? Interact with the children, don't watch me.
Sorry but you spent a half hour just talking to yourself so thumbs down.
Did you watch the video with your fucking eyes shut?