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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มี.ค. 2020
- I'm going to show how to install a Perrin Lightweight Crank Pulley on my Toyota 86 (FRS) and see if there's any real difference. I'm fully aware that it is not possible to butt-dyno a light crank pulley, but it is possible to measure rev speed between shifts (when gears aren't engaged). The performance gain I'm looking for is quicker blipping for downshifting, so we'll find out if the Perrin Crank Pulley can meet that goal.
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I have been modifying cars for maybe 20 years and I swear underdrive lightweight pulleys are one of the best bang for buck mods you can really feel a difference compared to all the other stuff like headers and intake and I have not had a single problem with any of the cars I had them on.
yeah as shown in the video, there is an actual difference- and the affordability and ease of install I’d say is good bang for buck for sure.
Is the lightweight pulley a big enough increase to throw you back in the seat compared to factory pulley?
@@cedricmiller4370 lol there’s nothing that’s $90 or less and takes 15 min to install that will “throw you back in the seat”. this is mainly for downshifting while clutch-in.
@@cedricmiller4370 😂
🤦🏼♂️
@@gt86er14 mine is 160 will that make it better
As soon as I saw how you waited for the UPS truck, i had to like the vid
I liked the vid cause I agree
nothing to test really. basic physics. it decreases rotational mass, the less weight to spin the less power wasted. anyone else saying otherwise needs to go study up.
Lmao I read your last few words as "buddy up". I was confused for a sec thinking "why do I need a buddy for this?"
@@TheTechNopal buddy up and go study!! Lol
More vibration, bad for high revving engine. This is why not all racecar use it. Different cars, different tracks, different setups.
Edit: i'm talking under load
@@arvin6606 yeah I recently installed one that didnt have the rubber thing in it to help crank vibrations and the pressure plate strap broke within a few miles, at redline.. :) the longer the crank the more the oem damper is needed
@@zanastumasonisyou installed a lightweight crank pulley and it snapped the belt on you?
Alright im gonna end any doubts you may have about this once and for all, Ive been driving around with it for about 6 months now and you can feel a slight but very noticeable increase in throttle response as soon as you install it. At the time the car was running an oft stage 2+ tune, the difference is nothing crazy but if you can find them for under a $90 it is certainly worth it. Its never given me issues and if someone were to take out of my car and put the stock one back in without me knowing, id certainly know something is off, rev matching also becomes easier as it decreases rev hang
You forgot to inform that NHRA will not let you run aluminum crank pulleys or stock pulley if you have built a true race engine that makes a certain hp per liter and or ET. Run a aluminum crank pulley on a Honda b series engine making over 450 kiss your oil pump good buy
Could you feel the difference in your hands? I was thinking about getting one for better response for my TRD camry (don’t make fun) it’s a cool Camry lol but looking to get better response and power and mainly get most my my stock power restored then go from there. What do you recommend? Also what about the control and stability of your wheel and feel your suspension and your wheels, I feel something kinda wobbling under my foot sorta. Maybe a bushing or some sort. Ball joint is good and all of that but what could make it stronger? Also how do I get the pressure back (sensitive breaking is what I want back) I don’t have leaks in the lines but could there be air? Or what? I was going to get a stainless steel break line kit and a new crank pully and break master cylinder
I didn't notice my lightweight crank pulley. But I did notice ditching my stock dual mass flywheel for a lightweight single mass replacement.
I'm a very by the numbers guy, a lighter crank pulley has to do something, albeit it may be very little depending on the power output of the motor, BUT it is doing something. Whether you gained .5hp or 3 it still is making a numerical difference. Its lighter than the OEM pulley, and the rotating assembly benefits from that. This is within the same sort of debate of Lighter rims YES rpf01s will make a difference over most factory wheels, is it something that's going to wow you and change your life? No it wont.
My concern you are micking around with the harmonics of the engine, in particular the crank. Surely lightening moves the harmonics up the frequency range. What happens to the low end frequency dampening? Balance it sure. But unless you are a switched on engine builder, who understand harmonics, and can fine tune the balancer, I wouldn't touch it.
Items changed to lighter that will give the most noticable improvement in throttle response,in decending order...(1) Clutch & Flywheel (2) Harmonic Balancer,(3) Crank Pulley. Additionally,"going inside" the engine with lighter Crank,Rods,Pistons & Wristpins then dynamically "spin" balance the whole assembly for smoothness. * These will NOT add much to increase overall HP but each part lightened,in order will greatly improved throttle response.
the harmonic balancer is the crank pulley
@@joemilton7552 Yes. Your point ?
And don't forget about the aluminum driveshaft 😎😁👍
Exactly what I’ve been thinking on doing with my car. I have an old 1992 Toyota and all I want is to feel it smoother and easier to drive if you get me. My car is as smooth as it comes cause I put a lot of investment into restoring it fully stock but suspension. But these are upgrades I’ve considered for the fun of the car.
@@TomAnderson. I think personally, I would have put that effort into a rarer car. Unless it's a special model of Toyota?
I wonder if there is any underdrive pulleys for a '96 Corolla with a 1.8L 7a-fe 👀
Will this work on Honda Civics as well?
It doesn’t add power, it helps free up the power that the motor already puts out
exactly- regaining power that you lose naturally cuz of rotational mass. every little bit helps
@@bishop_98 people may argue that right, but the truth is Ive never seen anyone report damage caused by this thing. Ive been running it for half a year with no issues, I know friends that have been running it for almost 3 years and have not had a single complain
@@bishop_98 maybe? the subaru engines due to design are more balanced than standard engine layouts. not running a harmonic damper is bad for standard engines, it can wear bearings faster, however we don't know if the subaru engines will suffer the same issues. I wouldnt risk it knowing what I know about harmonics and bearings.
@@itsfantom3020 It's on one of my daily shit box pocket rocket 1.3L turbo kcar for roughly 7 years now. No issue so far and I abuse that thing quite a lot. Although years ago someone did tell me to find the exact size and not anything smaller just light weight. I do hear years ago when people did this people who had problems was the one who replaces the stock ones with smaller lighter ones.
@@SketchbookGuitar some engines arent bothered by running UDP or Light weight pulleys. some are and the crank can damage the bearings. Mitsubishi 2.0L should NEVER be ran without a damper.
By itself, it may not feel like much, but after a couple of other supporting mods, those differences do add up! It is more for help with shifting (downshifting). But what's interesting is that, in the video, the revs go down faster when the throttle is off. (as expected since the stock pulley has a greater moment of inertia)...so there's more rev hang with the lightweight pulley. How can this be eliminated, maybe a tune? That probably explains why I give it a .5 sec pause in between shifts when upshifting in normal driving scenarios to shift smoother. (3500 is also a sweet spot). I've had mine for about 40K miles with no issue, but I'm still on the stock clutch and stock flywheel. But I do have a carbon driveshaft if that makes any difference. As a side note, since the boxer engine is most balanced vs any other engine (ie inline)....they would be the best candidate for this type of mod.
I would have thought that the heavier pulley would keep the engine spinning for longer?
With light weight internals and especially a light weight flywheel, you end up with massive engine braking when you back off. It's that stupid heavy flywheel that keeps the whole thing from slowing down. The car feels very responsive and maybe even twitchy.
Are these the same size as the stock one? Because i know for my car i can go down from a 6" to a 4 3/4" 160-120mm wheel and the underdrive on watgerpump dyno and servo help out aswell as the stock is 3.2kg 6 and a bit pou ds and a alu one is like 1 pound 0.45kg
I wish it was this easy on my IS300, that crank bolt tq spec is like 239ft/lbs and took me hours to break loose lol literally used a 6' chainlink fence post as a cheater bar after i isolated the harmonic balancer!
Nice vid! Didn't expect it to do anything haha. With all pullies lightened it would definitily be a noticable upgrade. How much would removing powersteering do? compared to this?
whoa i dunno if you wanna remove power steering tho- the car's light but not that light. i've owned a 2200 lbs car with no power steering, it has a shorter ratio, engine behind me, and it was extremely annoying to parallel park. i wouldn't sacrifice steering speed for any amount of power gain
@@gt86er14 You have a pretty nice toyota! I just got a little Toyota Starlet 850kg/1870lbs. Just wondering how much the difference would be between removing power steering and a lightened pulley. Just saw a vid with a 4AGE all lightened pulleys saved the same weight as a lightened flywheel. Pretty amazing!
@@socialhostage8534 With such a tiny car and small engine, pulleys would make more of a difference
My mans really said "now that the car is warmed up" when it was still dead on cold 💀
Nice
I'm wanting to consider putting NST Pulleys on my 06 Civic EX because it lacks acceleration (not a ricer). This is a daily commuter and I want a bit more punch to the car - are these worth it?
acceleration? probably not. downshift blipping, yes. some more effective ways to get the car to be more peppy is lighter wheels, lighter flywheel, make the car more light in general by removing seats, trunk carpet, mats, etc. if you want the engine to make more low-end torque without doing something crazy like adding a turbo, you can consult a local tuning shop for options on how to move more power to the rpm range you commonly drive in. they might have a quick easy tune they can do without you having to do anything extra- and they might also have options where if you added something small like an intake or exhaust mod, they can tune more low-end power into the engine on top of the mods.
@@gt86er14 Thanks for the reply!!!
Is that Cupertino? Thought it looked familiar
Mine is on the way for my Subaru..seems to be worth it for the price..👍🏼
yeah really it’s kind of a no-brainer if you’re doing time attacks or competing in general. it’s not expensive and its a quick install. the only “debate” i’ve seen is between guys who need their butt-dyno’s to feel something. so if you’re looking for a different “feel”, this is not that kind of upgrade. it’s like changing your camber slightly, it’s almost impossible for your butt-dyno to feel any difference but the point is to shave time off your lap. and factually as you see here, the blip to downshift is shorter and so you can downshift from gear to gear faster, which means you can brake later. i can’t imagine any pro debating any change like this is a waste of time and money, do every little thing you can up to the event restrictions cuz you want every advantage you can get.
You’re better off getting the fluid ampr. You need a harmonic balancer!
@@Musicizmyremedy not on a newer Subaru you don’t..they don’t require a balancer..✌🏼
@@billygames7107 Newer as in 2015+? Just had mine installed last week. Loving it so far. Stereo screen went black after, not sure if it's related 🤷🏻♂️. Any idea guys?
@@kevinmcquaig258 yeah that one should be fine. I highly doubt it’s related. Prob a woring problem. Check your grounds.
What pulleys do is free up HP. It lessens the parasitic drag. To feel the full effect you would need every pully lightened or smaller diameter. And no it doesnt wear anything down, ive had my crank pulley and all the others on for 180k now. VW r32
slows down the crank? no
@@joemilton7552 Actually now that I think about it the crank moves at the same speed, it's the other accessories that slow down.
Yes
I’m sorry i’m nee to the car community but what exactly does an underdrive pulley do? And Does it help with making ur car faster? Also how much was it?
ok so the engine is connected on the back to the flywheel > clutch > diff > wheels. and on the front it’s connected to the underdrive pulleys, it spins the crankshaft pulley which is connected to various pulleys like alternator, water pump, supercharger if you have one, etc and powers those. all of these parts have weight, some more than others and the rotational mass puts load on the engine’s ability to accelerate. any one of these spinning parts if they were lighter, would reduce rotational mass and make it easier for the engine to ramp up acceleration.
the crankshaft pulley is usually the largest and heaviest of the pulleys cuz its the one tied to the engine and is the part that spins energy into the other pulleys. the 86’s stock pulley weighs 5 lbs, the upgrade pulley weighs 1 lb. so when the engine is in neutral and it’s only spinning the flywheel on the back and the new crank pulley on the front, the initial acceleration of the engine is noticeably quicker. but this is when the engine only has to spin the accessory pulleys when in neutral. the clutch, diff, and wheels are way heavier so when the engine is driving the whole car and you only lightened the crank pulley, the acceleration improvement is less noticeable.
the more stuff you lighten, the more you’ll notice acceleration improvement in general.
so when upgrading to lighter spinning parts, theres 2 goals: do you want your car to feel quicker in acceleration when the engine is pushing the car? or do you want the car’s engine to rev quicker in neutral so you can downshift faster when cornering? if you want #1, you should get lighter wheels, lighter brake rotors, lighter flywheel. if you want #2, get lighter underdrive pulleys and flywheel. the quicker the engine revs in neutral, the less time you spend blipping to rev match downshifts when you’re diving towards a corner.
the Perrin pulley is usually about 100 or so, i got mine for $80 online. its way cheaper than a flywheel and way way faster to install- but you do get what you pay for. if you don’t get a pulley and instead change the flywheel, you’ll notice an even quicker rev and the whole car accelerates quicker at the same time, but more expensive and longer install.
@@gt86er14 okay now I’ll definitely get one👌 thank you so much for the help especially that i need help a lot since i’m new to the car scene, much respect🙏🏼
THE BASS MUSIC welcome to the car community, I’m assuming you have an 86?
I’m sure youve heard the back n forth on if these are ok or not for our engines. How has it been over the time you’ve had it on? I only have the accessory pulleys not the crank one yet, still reviewing it.
JoeyyTube So far so good- not much difference than when it was stock. I was going to get the rest of the accessory pulleys too on the chance that everything together would improve the blip speed but something tells me that none of these will compare to a flywheel- so I didn’t continue. Reliability they say it causes more abruptness which will wear the other parts faster, but my guess is if driving there doesn’t seem to be any difference, it’s not much difference in abruptness probably. a lightened flywheel might risk more damage in fact... all in all it’s probably not gonna cause much wear, only time will tell (a couple months i don’t think is long enough)
GT86er our cars being NA also reduces the risk if any at all, so I think it’ll be fun, I do like the extra red in the engine bay dress up, looks great!
JoeyyTube actually that’s a very good point- boosting it would accelerate the wear that these smaller mods might do so as long as we keep it NA it should be fine yeah- i might do another video :)
Does the air-conditioning and alternator affected when idle
CK Woof not that I’ve noticed, both work fine.
#waitingforthegoodies
What exactly does lighter pulleys do . Thinking of changing my top and bottom pulleys.
less rotational mass = less effort for the engine to spin the pieces- so revving up the low revs is a little punchier
just changing those alone, you won’t feel any significant change in overall acceleration because the energy still has to hit the flywheel and clutch, then the differential, then the heavy ass wheels+tires. but the first thing that will definitely make a difference is blipping to downshift or heeltoe- blipping without being attached to the wheels is quicker so you spend less time downshifting. if you go on a path to reduce all the rotational mass (pulleys, flywheel, wheels) you’ll feel the difference in acceleration for sure.
@@gt86er14 looking to lighten my flywheel on my motorcycle . Hopefully that will help with throttle response.
Cheers.
@@gt86er14 yeah i was thinking what happens of you just replaced everything you just mentioned
Anytime you're late in the power train. It would hit the opium's faster because now the motor is freeing up power because it does not have to struggle to spin the mass. That's why the old Small block 3 50 they used to run nothing nothing on the motor just off battery alone and would get more power
My stock crank pulley just flew off on my 22 year old Celica GTS 😅 . The stock pulley has rubber in between the pulley that connects together, that rubber part I guess started to disintegrate. I was driving and just heard it snap off. Now I'm thinking of upgrading to this because it's all aluminum with no rubber
yeah i still have mine on- it's been 2 years now, zero problems.
My 02’ celica gts also lost it recently
Do not put a lightweight on whatever you do. You have a harmonic balancer, vs just a standard crank pulley which would benefit from this mod. You need a fluid dampener, they last almost forever and is the proper upgrade for your car.
Hopefully your internals are light weight because off balance internals with no balancer bad idea
Lol I do the samerhing when I am waiting for a package
Probably not the best idea to lube the bolt threads, I think you're supposed to use loctite. If you're afraid of it seizing you could use copper paste or some other anti-seize.
Use Loctite and locking tabs.
Do the pulleys,rims,driveline,flywheel after all that I bet you could feel a difference
i just had the flywheel done couple days ago- gonna pick up the car and see if there’s a significant difference
this affects crank balance
never install cheap crank pulley
unbalaced pulley might cause wear on bearings
in 100% of cases i would rather put in light flywheel than replace stock harmonic balancer...
Am I the only one that caught the "lead" pipe lol. But only making a comment to laugh. Not making fun of us. Just thought it was funny 🤣🤣
Lol the car definitely wasn’t warm it’s not even off the C lmao
You forgot to inform that NHRA will not let you run aluminum crank pulleys or stock pulley if you have built a true race engine that makes a certain hp per liter and or ET. Run a aluminum crank pulley on a Honda b series engine making over 450 kiss your oil pump good buy
Decoupled weight gain, that's all it does.
Haha bro I think we are neighbors.
lol nice- what car do you drive?
TLDW: Nope.
As long as I don't hear that "Lightweight crank pulleys increase horsepower" then I am ok.
It is physically IMPOSSIBLE for engine "Lightening" to increase horsepower.
It can give faster throttle response. But the truth IS that losing weight anywhere else on the car contributes basically the same amount to faster 0-60 times as removing mass from the rotating assembly.
And removing mass from anywhere BUT the rotating mass is MUCH cheaper and effective.
Removing mass from the rotating assembly should ONLY be done on a dedicated race car where every single gram counts.
If you are putting a lightweight crank pulley on a car with a full interior and spare tire, then you are wasting your money.
Emptying your windshield washer bottle would give you more benefit on the track than the pulley.
Or lighter WHEELS makes a bigger difference to acceleration while reducing unsprung weight.
Wrong lightweight pullies have been dyno proven so yes there’s horsepower to be made period. I made 7whp and 9wheel torque more on my accord same day same dyno only change was pulley swap. Stock pulley is 7 ish lbs my new pulley is 0.6 lbs that’s a huge difference the engine has to work less and with an underdrive you get more power by slowing down accessories like ac and alternator means engine doesn’t work as hard.
@@HondaAccordPerformance no it is not possible to increase hp by reducing rotating mass PERIOD;. The automotive standard for measuring HP is at CONSTANT RPM. Changing the mass of the rotating assembly CANNOT affect this test WHEN DONE CORRECTLY. If you measured a difference then you did it wrong. I am a test engineer and I have more than 30 years experience building engines
AND I am a race car driver.
@@HondaAccordPerformance if the pulleys UNDERDRIVE the system then YES you can get hp. But you cannot by reducing mass alone
Just gonna "weigh" in on this subject.
You just said it is physically impossible to increase horsepower by reducing the weight these types of components in the engine.
I disagree, let me explain. Believe me, I am fully aware of what parasitic drag is. Pumping losses and all that type of stuff.
This engine makes X horsepower at the flywheel in stock configuration.
Installing a lightweight pulley does indeed free up horsepower that is already there, but it was being used by the inertial weight built into that stock harmonic balancer.
So the lightened pulley, if you still wanna call it a harmonic balancer does increase power. But it did not add power.
However, the engine itself is not complete without the harmonic balancer. This main pulley drives all of the other accessories and attached pumps. It is not considered a part of the rotating assemble, but as a long block, it should be.
There was also power gained by reducing the diameter, which further reduces parasitic losses.
So no, it did not add power, but it did free up power. Just a technicality, at the wheels, they add power.
Excluding bolt on performance parts that reduce parasitic drag. Lightning engine components does not add power impossibly. More power is a direct side effect of reducing any type of moving mass within or attached to the engine. Whether that be rotating or reciprocating.
You are not exactly wrong, but not exactly right.
@@robertmoore119 I understand what you are saying but the fact remains you cannot increase measurable horsepower. Because "ideal horsepower" is measured at constant velocity. The rotating mass is NOT a factor at constant rpm.
That's not true it would not hurt the harmonics and where you getting your information I think you need to learn more about lightweight pulley on the drive pulley or overdrive pulley before you make another video cuz you sound like you don't know what you're talking about or even modern cars since 88 you need to learn more
Sounds like a waste