Because this will come up: I am not worried about using an extension on the torque wrench. Can this impact torque readings? YES ? But at such a small amount I have zero concern. On this engine you have no choice but to use an extension. I would rather use the extension on all of them to have it even. That is much more important. The odds of your torque wrench being out of calibration or you turning the wrench too far after the click or beep are much bigger factors that an extension. If extension were a huge deal, we would also have to worry about the construction of the bit we are using. While this all can play a roll in torque, it's not an amount I am concerned with. Same goes for having my hand on the back side of the wrench. Now, if we were torquing to 3.2NM, my opinion might change. But in this case, it's nothing to really worry about. :)
HumbleMechanic Finally something that I have advanced certification in. The 90 degree straight extension doesn't have any measurable effects between applied torque loading and the force yielded at destination, assuming the tool head remains a square 90° over the fitting. Measurement degradation starts when the force source isn't centered above the targeted point, like when requirements call for an universal joint or "dog bone". I'm also not considering the unlikely circumstances of the tools being substandard and twisting between supply and resolution. I've picked up the habit of butting two nuts against each other on the opposite stud face to assist with gripping lubricated studs during installation, it helps my grip considerable. I am a fan of your channel and enjoy the knowledge from your experience with something that I don't have much opportunity to get personal experiences with, as well as the little tips I don't think of. I'm also sorry If I haven't been susinct and clear, but I have been up well past my bed time today.
Gee. More mechanics need to watch this..CLEAN the threads, CLEAN the hole...torque in steps, follow directions included in box..simple...great video..💰💰💰💰👍👍👍👍🔧🔧🔧🔧🔧🔧🔧🔧
@@leecoen2577 Or bottom out on debris in a blind hole. We also get better torque to clamping consistency when the hole and threads are clean and distortion free. With our applications, labor is the inexpensive component and we are all paid well.
@Tobytronic Cat Well, our labor charge is commensurate with our level of capabilities, expertise, experience and knowledge. Our labor rates currently start at $100 per hour and go to $275 per hour. We have very very few complaints regarding what we charge. Our clients prefer our level of clean, attention to detail and the results we deliver.
I agree on snuging studs a bit more than hand tight. As far as extensions, only minor LB rating difference, and for torque angle figures, if you have the slop pulled out when you set the angle it'll be pretty dead on anyway. Love your videos, look forward to more
Once you install the stud and put the head on you apply arp lube between the nut and washer plus threads and none between washer and head, otherwise you will end up over torquing the nut/stud. I know its nit picking but it is the truth and says it it in ARP guide that comes with your stud kit. its the same for people who dont chase the threads in the block then wonder why it the head gasket leaked. Head bolts /stud nuts act as a spring and that spring needs to be of higher preload pressure than the force of compression/combustion stroke and this also applies to the mains as there is equal pressure applied. That is why ARP sell different types of stud/nut combos for the same engine it depends on application.
Nice bro. I love ur channel. 175000 on my 1998 mk3 vr6 jetta glx. Original head gasket. I'm planning on doing this soon. Just did my timing chains & guides & new stage 1 clutch. She still runs like a beast. Will break axles lol..
I spoke with an ARP tech and he specifically said to not lube the washers especially on an aluminum head cause it will give a false read on the torque spec and can potentially break
I talk to the ARP Tech and he said to only put lube on the top part of the washer. The bottom side should stay dry clean. I double checked because I had saw a tech in a video talking about installing. I don’t know all the reasons but he mentioned that the washer would bite in better
Hey Charles, love your educational videos -Even though I mainly work with French cars, I really enjoy listening to you ramble about the small details. Keep it up! But I did have a question too; how did you compensate for the head gasket spacer regarding the timing chain? Since it now has something like 6-7mm more required length. Or does the chain tensioner now just have "less to do" or something?
PSA: When installing fasteners or studs that must be torqued, ONLY use lubrication if the manufacturer calls for it. (Charles' application called for it.) The reason is: the torque you apply is matched in the system by some combination of both friction, and elastic (temporary) stretch. Imagine that some MFG designed their fastener for a 50-50 split of friction & elastic stretch, assuming a dry application. If you lube it up, you will change that balance to be less friction & more stretch, and could cause failure of the threads or stud. (Note that when I say 'elastic stretch' above, I don't mean torque-to-yield.)
*Important- lube only the washer side that makes contact with the boltt, don't lube the washer on the side that touches the head. If the bolt feels loose close to the desired torque...back off the nut and sand the side of the washer that touches the head with 80 grit; just three or so 6" strokes should be enough. People blow head threads and snap bolts when the washer SPINS! and acts as a *bearing giving the feeling that the nuts is loose and not hitting the torque called for.
Exactly.... Do NOT do it as explained in the video. And make sure that if your washers are chamfered, that the chamfer goes up, against the bolt head to clearance the chamfer of the bolt head.
Something I found very different. Normally, as I was taught, if you use the copper spray, then you need to strip the black material off the new HG, delicately. The copper is known to help a gasket " walk" when applied to a material that is coated either for friction, or bonding, and that it adheres best to clean metal. It was just different to see it sprayed on a coated mls gasket.
Silly question maybe, BUT what is the benefits of copper spray on the head gasket? Something vehicle specific or is it good practice in general and why?
*pre install studs to check heights as not all motors have the stud hole depths machined the same and studs need to be bottomed out to work property. if some studs sit too low use some ball bearings to adjust stud height when bottoming out.
Do you have to use both a thread tracer and tap? I know you said either or but I saw you use both in the bid and just wanted to know. Working on mines currently. Thanks!!!
I did a test where I reused TYT bolts 3 times before. Never had a problem. Chased thread holes with a tap first. Naturally aspirated, wouldnt reccomend it with increased cylinder pressures.
What are your thoughts on thread chasers/cleaners vs. taps? I used to always used taps, to chase things and then I bought a full thread chaser set and I've noticed the thread chasers, seem to work better, They do not seem to *remove* as much material, when running to junk or any problems in the threads, thus I think they better, less chance of weakening the threads, removing metal. Thoughts? By the way, I used ARP bolts; on my 02M Wavetrac differential install and I was really impressed with their quality! They obviously, put alot of effort, time and engineering, into their fasteners!
Hey Charles, just found your channel and ive already watched all the white Wookiee videos! Wondering if you have a part number for that mk4 gasket and the spacer you used? I’ll be cracking my head off soon and wanted to upgrade mine also. But I’ve read that I should use the spacer to get the mk4 gasket to match mk3 gasket so I don’t have my valves contacting my piston face. Thanks in advance.
Hi Charles, Hope you are doing well. Thanks for all the content you share. I am doing arp studs now and need to find the thread chaser. Do you have the arp part number, or thread/ pitch/ length information. Unfortunately the link provided does not land a specific peoduct. Thanks again!!
Having a time dealing with getting headbolts for my motor…. The war is making overseas parts very hard tk get. As far as I have heard from the company and only company I can get my part from. They will not be shipping anything or flying anything out of the country (Japan) for a while… so looks like I’ll be going to the junk yard. But turns out. You can reuse the headbolts on my motor
hey charles am currently building a jetta 12v vr6 2000 and i watched almost all your videos and it helped alot i do have a question on my head spacer 9:0:1 when i install it when am going to do my timing chain would everything work out? meaning would the chain fit with no other modifications?
Good video, though the extension will not change torque, just give you greater leverage. I'm curious what range torque wrench you used, as I am about to install mine. I know this is probably overkill, but as a QAI in the Navy, we were only allowed to torque from 25-75% of the stated range of the torque wrench, so that's all I really know.
Did you screw the studs all the way in the block? Reason Im asking is because I have a mk4 vr6 12v w 3mm head spacer and arp studs and Im wondering if the arp studs will be long enough to screw all the way in the block and w the nut on the top still have 1 or 2 threads extra out the nut once fully torqued. Are the arp studs long enough?
Hey, just wanted to ask, if it is possible to use the bolts, that you put in an engine, in a another engine of the same spec. Eg, using the headstuds for a mk3 2L and reuse them in the 2L 16v (the kit for both engines is the same so no worries there).
The only question I have is about using the tap? I was always told to only use a thread chaser not a tap as the tap will remove material. Especially important when dealing with rods, mains, or head bolt threads.
I have had good luck going either way as long as you're careful. If you use a tap properly it should make the threads proper for installing the bolt. It can cut metal where a thread chaser will not. But if the bolts are in fair to great condition I don't think it's an issue. But you do need to take greater care in using a tap than a thread chaser
I usually recommend using a thread chaser unless the person performing the operation is knowledgeable, skilled, experienced and is using the correct tap. Taps are not universal sized and are available is several types and sizes of minor and major thread diameters for the same nominal diameter and pitch meaning the incorrect type/size can remove too much material on the root, crest and flank of an existing internal thread (hole) thereby significantly weakening the strength of the thread left behind. Almost all decent commercial thread chasers available typically have cutting flute dimensions and geometry that do not harm the exiting thread even in the hands of a novice. Having said all of the above, I have successfully used a tap to chase threads when that is all that I had. ;) I have also used a tap to chase threads and butchered the threads requiring time consuming (read as expensive) thread repair inserts to fix my screw-up.
Charles, is there merit to doing full torque sequences and then backing them all off and repeating again so that the studs and head go through a cold stress cycle? Even better, re-torque after heat cycle?
I’ve got to do my lb7 duramax, I’ll never do anything above stock power, can I just use new factory head bolts instead and be ok? The difference is $50 vs $650 so being able to use them more than once isn’t an issue, thanks.
Turbo boost and compression ratios determine how much fuel octane you need. That is why when you want to use pump gas and add a turbo, reduced compression ratios are used. Factory turbocharged cars are built with lower compression ratios than their turbocharged counterparts. One of my favorite cars of all time, the Z32 Nissan 300ZX has about 8.5:1 compression for the twin turbo model, and the non-turbo 300ZX has about 10.5:1 compression. Turbo boost and compression ratios aren't the only things that determine how much octane you need, but they are probably the biggest 2 factors.
I actually learned about Helicoils when my dad was working for a company that is now owned by saab aviation. They would often break threads in the assembly of radar jamming missile parts and such and when parts have more than $10000 in machine hours on them you really don't want to have to make them again if you can avoid it.
You do not lube the threads that enter the block. 🤦♂️ Read the instructions!!! Insert studs into block hand tight THEN lubricate the remaining threads, washers, nuts.
Hi! I'm from Spain and new here. My question is what happens if you torque the arp kit to the vw torque specs and not to the arp torque instructions. Great job with that vr6!! (Sorry for my poor english)
Purpose of ARP lube is to maitain constant and repeteable torqeue so why are you putting it bethween block and stud? It should be put only bethween stud and nut and on the washer.
I have to agree.. the reason you hear of studs backing out is because of people ignorant to this fact and lube the stud into the block.. the only thing that should be used is motor oil if it is a blind hole.. or possibly a thread sealant if it is a thru hole that accesses coolant but not always necessary and ONLY HAND TIGHT.. second thought.. why would you even attempt cv grease.. each kit comes with enough moly to relube the threads multiple times if need be
@@y0utub4user I also was wondered why he lubed the threads going into the block. Those threads do not turn [torsion], are only in tension. The lube goes on the threads with the nut and washer to provide a good & even torquing process. I think he did that wrong.
How about nylon "engine cleaning" brushes to clean out the "bolt holes"? www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/engine-brushes That's what I have been using for 50-plus years for head bolt holes. Yes, "threading" those brushes in is very time consuming, but far less chance of removing metal as with a tap. And thread chaser "taps" typically aren't long enough to get to the bottom of many head bolt holes, especially when there is a "sleeve" for locating the head gasket for at least 2 of the head bolts sticking out of the block surface. Also, cleaning the threads is probably best done prior to taking the block to have it hot tanked, rather than as part of the assembly process. But of course, it should also be done on assembly to get whatever may have gotten in during transit if the machine shop doesn't return to you it in a large plastic bag.
What is the purpose of spraying copper if you have no spacer and you got block and head machined in a case like mine with arp bolts . Does spraying copper help in built engine etc forge rod ,piston,turbo 500 hp+
If I wasn't using the spacer, I wouldn't use the spray regardless of the HP. I mean I am sure there is a point where you need to consider the gasket more, but 500hp is probably going to be fine. Now if you are doing a CRAZY build, I might talk with the machine shop to be sure
what would you recommend as a lube for head bolts ? i presume use about the same application as in your video ? i have always used a touch of new engine oil on the threads and head bolt washers?
Oil is not made for extreme pressures like the one found between threads of threaded fasteners. It is not because you have always done it that way before that it is the best method. In tests I have conducted I found that motor oil on threads of connecting rod bolts accounted for very little difference in bolt stretch.
hey o have a question, i know 12v’s are interference motors, but do you know if i ran a 8.5:1 spacers and timing jumped 3 teeth an i still safe with the headspacer clearance you think? i even checked the timing by turning motor over by hand when i put it together and it was spot on, started the car after it was together after an oil prime crank, car ran for 10secs then shut off and.now with cams aligned with ailment plate the crank mark is turned counter clockwise about same spot you say in the vid when you install your cams when the head is on
What is the final torque check specification in Newton Meters for standard torque to yield bolts on the VR6? I.E after full sequence what would they click at?
what arp studs are these? On a HP academy video with an ARP representer they spoke about how L19 ARP Studs start to deteriorate with any water or moisture exposed to them, caused by hydrogen embrittlement, this video can cause someone to have L19s and do just that. Once again this information is said by ARP themselves. Can other ARP studs be exposed to water? I have not done that much research I just know this about L19s.
I disagree man, I believe it's bad idea to remove the grease and oils from bolts, the oil and grease protects bolts from corrosion, and anything more than hand tight defeats the idea of how these bolts from ARP work
take a post card sized piece of paper ,,, along the long side , divide it into three and put a cut half way down the piece of paper in two places , ,, then hold the top corners , one at each edge and see if you can tear the paper into three parts . if it works , and you get three pieces of paper ill do every engine i build from now on your way and totally concede that it makes total engineering sense. if you cant tear it into three as the forces wont share equally , ill stick to my way. let me know how you get on
hi have bently book still can't find a minimum tolerance for piston to head with mk4 head gasket i have .038 clearance now want to know if I'm safe. new motor thanks
Depends where the loose bolt is. Always start in the middle of the part and work in a circular pattern towards the outside edges. Nothing has changed in mettalurgy even if engineers try to make you think it has.
I'm surprised you use copper coat there has been many tests done and Teflon coated gaskets are best installed dry. I personally used copper coat and I would end up with some coolant related issue. I no longer personally use copper coat and would recommend to anybody out there using a metal head gasket with a Teflon coating to research it.
Back in the 1960's we used to build our motors in our race boats with mls head gaskets, everyone sprayed the gaskets with either silver paint or copper paint. Its just another layer adding to the crush, insuring a better seal. May add 002-.004 thickness though.
Why are you wasting ARP assembly lube on the lower/untorqued portion of the stud? If you're trying to prevent galling for some some later removal, just use regular antiseize. Save the assembly lube for where you need it, the torqued/nut/washer end. (If they provide plenty for both ends, NBD)
It will not do any good. What you will test in a "double check" is the friction that is present between the contact surfaces, That is the static friction and it is always higher than the dynamic one. The only way you can really check the "torque" is to break the fastener loose and torque it again or measure the stretch. In experiments, I have done for a book I wrote we found that about 75% of the friction that is recorded with a torque wrench is static friction. You would have to torque and release a fastener 6 to 8 times to remove the majority of the friction. The ARP lube will remove the remainder.appliedspeed.com
Get your rods resized and shot peened, and use ARP bolts. Thats your stress guage. Focus on deburring the casting on the sides of the rods, especially where the vector loads are occurring on the big end where it narrows down from large to smaller. Deburring the casting lines adds 20% stregnth to the rods. Shot peen when deburred.
Because this will come up:
I am not worried about using an extension on the torque wrench. Can this impact torque readings? YES ? But at such a small amount I have zero concern. On this engine you have no choice but to use an extension. I would rather use the extension on all of them to have it even. That is much more important.
The odds of your torque wrench being out of calibration or you turning the wrench too far after the click or beep are much bigger factors that an extension. If extension were a huge deal, we would also have to worry about the construction of the bit we are using. While this all can play a roll in torque, it's not an amount I am concerned with. Same goes for having my hand on the back side of the wrench.
Now, if we were torquing to 3.2NM, my opinion might change. But in this case, it's nothing to really worry about. :)
LOL, I will see him in a month or so..
Albert S. I can imagine that. Complete with white board diagram and description. :)
HumbleMechanic What was the second thread repair method you suggested after helicoil? I couldn't catch the name.
TIME-SERT®
HumbleMechanic Finally something that I have advanced certification in. The 90 degree straight extension doesn't have any measurable effects between applied torque loading and the force yielded at destination, assuming the tool head remains a square 90° over the fitting. Measurement degradation starts when the force source isn't centered above the targeted point, like when requirements call for an universal joint or "dog bone". I'm also not considering the unlikely circumstances of the tools being substandard and twisting between supply and resolution. I've picked up the habit of butting two nuts against each other on the opposite stud face to assist with gripping lubricated studs during installation, it helps my grip considerable. I am a fan of your channel and enjoy the knowledge from your experience with something that I don't have much opportunity to get personal experiences with, as well as the little tips I don't think of. I'm also sorry If I haven't been susinct and clear, but I have been up well past my bed time today.
Gee. More mechanics need to watch this..CLEAN the threads, CLEAN the hole...torque in steps, follow directions included in box..simple...great video..💰💰💰💰👍👍👍👍🔧🔧🔧🔧🔧🔧🔧🔧
I agree.
There is no such thing as "too clean".
patw52pb1 the last thing you want is a brand new stud to 'gall' in a dirty thread..then more labor invested.
@@leecoen2577
Or bottom out on debris in a blind hole.
We also get better torque to clamping consistency when the hole and threads are clean and distortion free.
With our applications, labor is the inexpensive component and we are all paid well.
@Tobytronic Cat
Well, our labor charge is commensurate with our level of capabilities, expertise, experience and knowledge.
Our labor rates currently start at $100 per hour and go to $275 per hour.
We have very very few complaints regarding what we charge.
Our clients prefer our level of clean, attention to detail and the results we deliver.
Exactly my thoughts
Intimidating??? That is therapeutically relaxing.
I agree on snuging studs a bit more than hand tight.
As far as extensions, only minor LB rating difference, and for torque angle figures, if you have the slop pulled out when you set the angle it'll be pretty dead on anyway.
Love your videos, look forward to more
what is this soapy water? did you mean soapy wooder?
+Tony Baratta I'm in the south. It's more like soapy wahwder
Wonder if anyone realized that was a chrisfixit reference.
I'm from Australia, so it's soapy worter ;)
@@mxszoniq5757 I understand that reference haha
Wordor
Once you install the stud and put the head on you apply arp lube between the nut and washer plus threads and none between washer and head, otherwise you will end up over torquing the nut/stud.
I know its nit picking but it is the truth and says it it in ARP guide that comes with your stud kit.
its the same for people who dont chase the threads in the block then wonder why it the head gasket leaked.
Head bolts /stud nuts act as a spring and that spring needs to be of higher preload pressure than the force of compression/combustion stroke and this also applies to the mains as there is equal pressure applied.
That is why ARP sell different types of stud/nut combos for the same engine it depends on application.
I love the way you work, sooo clean... The way you explain, soooo useful, thanks! 👍🙂
I'm glad ARP makes a kit for these I HATE TORQUE TO YIELD BOLTS!
LOL, me too.
Got the ARP head studs for my FSI engine with big turbo PTE5858 love it.
Nice bro. I love ur channel. 175000 on my 1998 mk3 vr6 jetta glx. Original head gasket. I'm planning on doing this soon. Just did my timing chains & guides & new stage 1 clutch. She still runs like a beast. Will break axles lol..
I spoke with an ARP tech and he specifically said to not lube the washers especially on an aluminum head cause it will give a false read on the torque spec and can potentially break
I talk to the ARP Tech and he said to only put lube on the top part of the washer. The bottom side should stay dry clean. I double checked because I had saw a tech in a video talking about installing. I don’t know all the reasons but he mentioned that the washer would bite in better
6 years later and still relevant.. nice.
Hey Charles, love your educational videos -Even though I mainly work with French cars, I really enjoy listening to you ramble about the small details. Keep it up!
But I did have a question too; how did you compensate for the head gasket spacer regarding the timing chain? Since it now has something like 6-7mm more required length. Or does the chain tensioner now just have "less to do" or something?
I like your techniques, I'm learning.
It’s been a year since I’ve done it thank you
PSA: When installing fasteners or studs that must be torqued, ONLY use lubrication if the manufacturer calls for it. (Charles' application called for it.) The reason is: the torque you apply is matched in the system by some combination of both friction, and elastic (temporary) stretch. Imagine that some MFG designed their fastener for a 50-50 split of friction & elastic stretch, assuming a dry application. If you lube it up, you will change that balance to be less friction & more stretch, and could cause failure of the threads or stud. (Note that when I say 'elastic stretch' above, I don't mean torque-to-yield.)
Correct. Torque-to-yield involves plastic deformation (stretch beyond the material's elastic range)
*Important- lube only the washer side that makes contact with the boltt, don't lube the washer on the side that touches the head. If the bolt feels loose close to the desired torque...back off the nut and sand the side of the washer that touches the head with 80 grit; just three or so 6" strokes should be enough. People blow head threads and snap bolts when the washer SPINS! and acts as a *bearing giving the feeling that the nuts is loose and not hitting the torque called for.
Exactly....
Do NOT do it as explained in the video.
And make sure that if your washers are chamfered, that the chamfer goes up, against the bolt head to clearance the chamfer of the bolt head.
This is true I did this one time and over torqued the nut and split my washers 🤦♂️
Taking notes to my shop's to-do lists on what I see here haha Cheers
Something I found very different.
Normally, as I was taught, if you use the copper spray, then you need to strip the black material off the new HG, delicately.
The copper is known to help a gasket " walk" when applied to a material that is coated either for friction, or bonding, and that it adheres best to clean metal.
It was just different to see it sprayed on a coated mls gasket.
I'm surprised you didn't cover up the oil and coolant holes in the block before blowing out the head stud holes.
Silly question maybe, BUT what is the benefits of copper spray on the head gasket? Something vehicle specific or is it good practice in general and why?
*pre install studs to check heights as not all motors have the stud hole depths machined the same and studs need to be bottomed out to work property. if some studs sit too low use some ball bearings to adjust stud height when bottoming out.
Nice video Charles keep em up
Do you have to use both a thread tracer and tap? I know you said either or but I saw you use both in the bid and just wanted to know. Working on mines currently. Thanks!!!
Have you ever had any issues with the copper spray over time?
I did a test where I reused TYT bolts 3 times before. Never had a problem. Chased thread holes with a tap first. Naturally aspirated, wouldnt reccomend it with increased cylinder pressures.
so we don't install them in the proper location?
What are your thoughts on thread chasers/cleaners vs. taps? I used to always used taps, to chase things and then I bought a full thread chaser set and I've noticed the thread chasers, seem to work better, They do not seem to *remove* as much material, when running to junk or any problems in the threads, thus I think they better, less chance of weakening the threads, removing metal. Thoughts?
By the way, I used ARP bolts; on my 02M Wavetrac differential install and I was really impressed with their quality! They obviously, put alot of effort, time and engineering, into their fasteners!
Hey Charles, just found your channel and ive already watched all the white Wookiee videos!
Wondering if you have a part number for that mk4 gasket and the spacer you used? I’ll be cracking my head off soon and wanted to upgrade mine also. But I’ve read that I should use the spacer to get the mk4 gasket to match mk3 gasket so I don’t have my valves contacting my piston face.
Thanks in advance.
Hi Charles,
Hope you are doing well. Thanks for all the content you share. I am doing arp studs now and need to find the thread chaser. Do you have the arp part number, or thread/ pitch/ length information. Unfortunately the link provided does not land a specific peoduct. Thanks again!!
I'd like to put arp head studs on my '81 rabbit diesel. It has 11mm threads.
Is the spacer between the gaskets common for this engine or something you wanted to add?
This is a delightful video. 🙂 makes me want to vr6 swap my Mazda B2500 for some reason. 🤣🤣
NICE!
VR6!
Nice!
Having a time dealing with getting headbolts for my motor…. The war is making overseas parts very hard tk get. As far as I have heard from the company and only company I can get my part from. They will not be shipping anything or flying anything out of the country (Japan) for a while… so looks like I’ll be going to the junk yard. But turns out. You can reuse the headbolts on my motor
hey charles am currently building a jetta 12v vr6 2000 and i watched almost all your videos and it helped alot i do have a question on my head spacer 9:0:1 when i install it when am going to do my timing chain would everything work out? meaning would the chain fit with no other modifications?
Well done.
Good video, though the extension will not change torque, just give you greater leverage. I'm curious what range torque wrench you used, as I am about to install mine. I know this is probably overkill, but as a QAI in the Navy, we were only allowed to torque from 25-75% of the stated range of the torque wrench, so that's all I really know.
Did you screw the studs all the way in the block? Reason Im asking is because I have a mk4 vr6 12v w 3mm head spacer and arp studs and Im wondering if the arp studs will be long enough to screw all the way in the block and w the nut on the top still have 1 or 2 threads extra out the nut once fully torqued. Are the arp studs long enough?
Hey, just wanted to ask, if it is possible to use the bolts, that you put in an engine, in a another engine of the same spec.
Eg, using the headstuds for a mk3 2L and reuse them in the 2L 16v (the kit for both engines is the same so no worries there).
The only question I have is about using the tap? I was always told to only use a thread chaser not a tap as the tap will remove material. Especially important when dealing with rods, mains, or head bolt threads.
I have had good luck going either way as long as you're careful. If you use a tap properly it should make the threads proper for installing the bolt. It can cut metal where a thread chaser will not. But if the bolts are in fair to great condition I don't think it's an issue. But you do need to take greater care in using a tap than a thread chaser
I usually recommend using a thread chaser unless the person performing the operation is knowledgeable, skilled, experienced and is using the correct tap.
Taps are not universal sized and are available is several types and sizes of minor and major thread diameters for the same nominal diameter and pitch meaning the incorrect type/size can remove too much material on the root, crest and flank of an existing internal thread (hole) thereby significantly weakening the strength of the thread left behind.
Almost all decent commercial thread chasers available typically have cutting flute dimensions and geometry that do not harm the exiting thread even in the hands of a novice.
Having said all of the above, I have successfully used a tap to chase threads when that is all that I had. ;)
I have also used a tap to chase threads and butchered the threads requiring time consuming (read as expensive) thread repair inserts to fix my screw-up.
Love the vr content great vid!
Northstar life saver.
It is also a must for the Ford 6.0 PSD.
Charles, is there merit to doing full torque sequences and then backing them all off and repeating again so that the studs and head go through a cold stress cycle? Even better, re-torque after heat cycle?
Great job
I’ve got to do my lb7 duramax, I’ll never do anything above stock power, can I just use new factory head bolts instead and be ok? The difference is $50 vs $650 so being able to use them more than once isn’t an issue, thanks.
I didn't know you had to replace the bolts, learning is fun.
What does a spacer + second gasket do compared to a singular gasket?
Lowers the compression ratio.
:)
Like Dacasman said it's to drop compression. Not needed for low levels of boost, but gives me a little room to grow
I must be missing something, lol. I thought a higher compression would be better (unless unsafe).
Turbo boost and compression ratios determine how much fuel octane you need. That is why when you want to use pump gas and add a turbo, reduced compression ratios are used.
Factory turbocharged cars are built with lower compression ratios than their turbocharged counterparts. One of my favorite cars of all time, the Z32 Nissan 300ZX has about 8.5:1 compression for the twin turbo model, and the non-turbo 300ZX has about 10.5:1 compression.
Turbo boost and compression ratios aren't the only things that determine how much octane you need, but they are probably the biggest 2 factors.
Helicoils are used in aviation/ weapons industry so I am pretty sure they are ok for your old Trabant charles.
+rimmersbryggeri lol that's fair. ;)
I actually learned about Helicoils when my dad was working for a company that is now owned by saab aviation. They would often break threads in the assembly of radar jamming missile parts and such and when parts have more than $10000 in machine hours on them you really don't want to have to make them again if you can avoid it.
4 helicoils used on rocker studs on a 1966 corvette camel hump head with no problems. Thats with a .600 lift camshaft.
hi. What spray do you use on the head gasket and what benefits can it have?
Charles , do you have an opinion on under-cut studs?
You do not lube the threads that enter the block. 🤦♂️
Read the instructions!!!
Insert studs into block hand tight THEN lubricate the remaining threads, washers, nuts.
Hi Charles, what was the torque wrench used in this video? thanks.
That is the older model Snap On Tech Wrench
thanks.is ACDelco a good brand?
I have not used one of theirs.
So leaking coolant is only a V8 problem or why aren’t you using coolant sealer?
I didn't know there was a "hard" way, since I've never actually done it, but will be doing it in the future. Thank you.
I Am sure that someone can make a hard way LOL
HumbleMechanic Yes, you're talking to him ; ]
HAHAHA
Great video thanks for the información
Thank you
To save time run them through with a 1/2" impact in 1 pass with 3-4 ugga-duggas...
good job man .....
Hi! I'm from Spain and new here. My question is what happens if you torque the arp kit to the vw torque specs and not to the arp torque instructions.
Great job with that vr6!!
(Sorry for my poor english)
Good question. Probably nothing, but I would highly recommend the ARP spec
The factory bolts are a complete different design. You do want to torque the ARP bolts per the instruction with your kit.
Can you reuse the studs?
Yep, that is one of the best parts about them
This guy and his fucking SNAPON TORQUE WRENCH.
Fuckin guy.
super cool bro. ty for the guide im gonna be installing arps on my 4cyl.
Purpose of ARP lube is to maitain constant and repeteable torqeue so why are you putting it bethween block and stud? It should be put only bethween stud and nut and on the washer.
kitastan So it doesn't seize(hence anti-sieze)
I did some digging, that ARP lube looks like Mo2S CV joint grease. I got some second hand and used some Mo2S grease.
@@Tomyp89 The ARP grease is specifically designed for the type of use it is used for and CV joint grease is used in a totally different application.
I have to agree.. the reason you hear of studs backing out is because of people ignorant to this fact and lube the stud into the block.. the only thing that should be used is motor oil if it is a blind hole.. or possibly a thread sealant if it is a thru hole that accesses coolant but not always necessary and ONLY HAND TIGHT.. second thought.. why would you even attempt cv grease.. each kit comes with enough moly to relube the threads multiple times if need be
@@y0utub4user I also was wondered why he lubed the threads going into the block. Those threads do not turn [torsion], are only in tension. The lube goes on the threads with the nut and washer to provide a good & even torquing process. I think he did that wrong.
So what would happen is you followed the head bolt torque levels on the head studs. 👀Asking for a friend
Ok so, what are y’all rebuilding? 🤣 2.0T Gen Coupe over here 😂
120ft lbs on my TDI seemed a bit much to me. Did you use arps on the crank?
No OEM there
How about nylon "engine cleaning" brushes to clean out the "bolt holes"?
www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/engine-brushes
That's what I have been using for 50-plus years for head bolt holes. Yes, "threading" those brushes in is very time consuming, but far less chance of removing metal as with a tap. And thread chaser "taps" typically aren't long enough to get to the bottom of many head bolt holes, especially when there is a "sleeve" for locating the head gasket for at least 2 of the head bolts sticking out of the block surface.
Also, cleaning the threads is probably best done prior to taking the block to have it hot tanked, rather than as part of the assembly process. But of course, it should also be done on assembly to get whatever may have gotten in during transit if the machine shop doesn't return to you it in a large plastic bag.
Shouldn’t be using an extension when torquing use a long socket, if an extension is absolutely needed uses the shortest one you can
It makes virtually no difference in this application
What is the purpose of spraying copper if you have no spacer and you got block and head machined in a case like mine with arp bolts . Does spraying copper help in built engine etc forge rod ,piston,turbo 500 hp+
If I wasn't using the spacer, I wouldn't use the spray regardless of the HP. I mean I am sure there is a point where you need to consider the gasket more, but 500hp is probably going to be fine. Now if you are doing a CRAZY build, I might talk with the machine shop to be sure
one question why you paint the cylinder head gasket or wat is that cu spray
Whats that socket you used?
what would you recommend as a lube for head bolts ? i presume use about the same application as in your video ? i have always used a touch of new engine oil on the threads and head bolt washers?
I think the oil will work fine. I think that is what ARP uses as a back up.
ok cool thanks keep up the good work :D
Oil is not made for extreme pressures like the one found between threads of threaded fasteners. It is not because you have always done it that way before that it is the best method. In tests I have conducted I found that motor oil on threads of connecting rod bolts accounted for very little difference in bolt stretch.
I just changed head gasket and bolts... Can I stick with the bolts for 5psi?
Most likely you’ll be fine
What is wookie is that like a name your using for this build
hey o have a question, i know 12v’s are interference motors, but do you know if i ran a 8.5:1 spacers and timing jumped 3 teeth an i still safe with the headspacer clearance you think? i even checked the timing by turning motor over by hand when i put it together and it was spot on, started the car after it was together after an oil prime crank, car ran for 10secs then shut off and.now with cams aligned with ailment plate the crank mark is turned counter clockwise about same spot you say in the vid when you install your cams when the head is on
I would want to re time it, or remove teh cams and do a cylinder leak down test
What is the final torque check specification in Newton Meters for standard torque to yield bolts on the VR6? I.E after full sequence what would they click at?
TYT bolt torque is based on the diameter of the bolt in engineering books, just look it up, you dont need to know engine applications.
Hand tight means hand tight with a Stud wrench. Finger tight means use fingers only, no wrench.
what arp studs are these? On a HP academy video with an ARP representer they spoke about how L19 ARP Studs start to deteriorate with any water or moisture exposed to them, caused by hydrogen embrittlement, this video can cause someone to have L19s and do just that. Once again this information is said by ARP themselves. Can other ARP studs be exposed to water? I have not done that much research I just know this about L19s.
What happens if you torque the stud too much with a wrench. Not referring to tightening the nut.
Anyone ever over torqued before? Did 90ft lbs instead of 75ft lbs
@humblemechanic can you please tell me what took your using to tighten the studs to the block, I need this tool
I think it was just an Allen socket
U can reuse arps?
Cool
I disagree man, I believe it's bad idea to remove the grease and oils from bolts, the oil and grease protects bolts from corrosion, and anything more than hand tight defeats the idea of how these bolts from ARP work
take a post card sized piece of paper ,,, along the long side , divide it into three and put a cut half way down the piece of paper in two places , ,, then hold the top corners , one at each edge
and see if you can tear the paper into three parts .
if it works , and you get three pieces of paper ill do every engine i build from now on your way and totally concede that it makes total engineering sense.
if you cant tear it into three as the forces wont share equally , ill stick to my way.
let me know how you get on
Are you sure that you need to wash them and lube the stud on the bottom, please?
I just came here from the sloppy mechanics page..... 😂😂😂😂😂
Hahah oh boy. I’m not sure if that’s good or bad 😂😂😂😂. Those dudes can be ruthless 😂💙
It sounds like he said get out the torque wrench and said start twerking.
+john M hahah. The second that came out of my mouth I heard it too
HumbleMechanic
I don't think we need to see twerking. Lol
That's why it went black. So we don't see it.
DAMN I can't believe that happened again. I am not sure what the heck is going on. I am lost a few seconds of video on another one too.
HumbleMechanic
"Shit Happens"
So I heard that arp doesn't recommend the bottom to be lubed. Only the top threads
hi have bently book still can't find a minimum tolerance for piston to head with mk4 head gasket i have .038 clearance now want to know if I'm safe. new motor thanks
+Erik groennings I ran a decked head and a mk4 gasket on my Cabby VR,l with no issues.
Off hand I don’t know the spec.
HumbleMechanic thanks !!! love the show
If you wore to accidentally torque all head bolts except one. What should you do?
professionally get a new head gasket and start again, but fuck that just torque it down.
Depends where the loose bolt is. Always start in the middle of the part and work in a circular pattern towards the outside edges. Nothing has changed in mettalurgy even if engineers try to make you think it has.
Hi sir your video is very good I am a glad I am impress your toolkit name stand name and your tool kit rate I am buying and I am a Diesel Mechanic JCB
what's the gasket spray?
What is the torque of the cylinder head? urgent please
I'm surprised you use copper coat there has been many tests done and Teflon coated gaskets are best installed dry. I personally used copper coat and I would end up with some coolant related issue. I no longer personally use copper coat and would recommend to anybody out there using a metal head gasket with a Teflon coating to research it.
Had I not split the gasket I wouldn’t have used it.
Back in the 1960's we used to build our motors in our race boats with mls head gaskets, everyone sprayed the gaskets with either silver paint or copper paint. Its just another layer adding to the crush, insuring a better seal. May add 002-.004 thickness though.
hi humblemechanic you using head spacer so that compression 9.2: 1
Pls how can i get ring guider for vr6
Will this work on the 24v. Only see one vr kit on their site
I am not totally sure. I Would call ARP before I spent the $$$
Why are you wasting ARP assembly lube on the lower/untorqued portion of the stud? If you're trying to prevent galling for some some later removal, just use regular antiseize. Save the assembly lube for where you need it, the torqued/nut/washer end. (If they provide plenty for both ends, NBD)
Thor Dehr apr calls for you to use the lube on the threads in the block..
Is it ok to double check the torque spec?
It will not do any good. What you will test in a "double check" is the friction that is present between the contact surfaces, That is the static friction and it is always higher than the dynamic one. The only way you can really check the "torque" is to break the fastener loose and torque it again or measure the stretch. In experiments, I have done for a book I wrote we found that about 75% of the friction that is recorded with a torque wrench is static friction. You would have to torque and release a fastener 6 to 8 times to remove the majority of the friction. The ARP lube will remove the remainder.appliedspeed.com
Do i need these?
No. You can use factory hardware. But new bolts are needed
Everything about stress gauge for connecting rod bolts?
+Lime yep. I'll have a video on that too.
Get your rods resized and shot peened, and use ARP bolts. Thats your stress guage. Focus on deburring the casting on the sides of the rods, especially where the vector loads are occurring on the big end where it narrows down from large to smaller. Deburring the casting lines adds 20% stregnth to the rods. Shot peen when deburred.
I’ve never seen anyone wash ARP studs before. I’ve always just run em how they come out of the box coated in that tacky waxy stuff
👏👏👏