What is being such a blessing to me is reading "The Cathecism of the Council of Trent". I was judging Catholic Church by what is going on, but that book shows the Faith so clearly. Glory be to GOD YHWH. ❤️
Hey, I’ve seen you said that you’ve left Islam and came to Christ, may I ask how so? Personally speaking, I’ve been struggling as a Christian to reconcile the trinity. This debate in fact made it worst as I feel Shabir’s criticisms are tough. For example, when he says the word God is vague, he shows that the Judges in Samuel was referred to as Gods, which makes it harder to reconcile the argument from divinity. His argument against Michael’s position of that the 3 are YahWeh seems to be well put as well. How can God say he is the only true God and then proceed to speak of the spirit to be separate? As in, how could God the father say he is YahWeh but not the Spirit? There’s probably more from the debate that gives me doubt, but for now ill just leave you with some of my doubts.
@@probaskinnyman4960 I recommend reading Margaret Barker, The Angel of the Lord. The most ancient biblical religion - that of the first temple - not rabbinic Judaism (which Islam is similar to), held that the Most High had a second hypostatis, who could be seen in human form, who was his Son, the Word. He was seen as equal to the Most High (Father) in divinity, yet somehow distinct. The davidic king was also anointed and believed to be the presence of God with the people, in the temple, and was called the son of God. Here we see a type of theosis. Islam’s claim to be the fulfillment and restoration of the religion of the prophets and Hebrew Scriptures is easy to fall for, and many people get duped. But when you study biblical religion through it’s appropriate lens, the lens of temple theology, which is absolutely fundamental but often overlooked, you’ll see what a joke it is. It is Catholicism that fulfills the temple and the davidic kingdom, Islam has nothing to do with it. It is not the religion of the prophets and patriarchs. I suggest checking out a video on my channel called why Islam cannot be what is claims to be: the religion of Abraham. I also have various podcast episodes on these subjects. Finally, I have an online “course” on Smart Catholics website called the Hebrew Origins of Catholicism. You might really benefit from it. God bless brother!
@@probaskinnyman4960 i havent watched the video yet so im not sure what u mean about God saying He's the only true God and not the Holy Spirit, but if God the Father is explicitly called God in a verse and the Holy Spirit isn't, it's not a denial of the Holy Spirit's divinity. Each person of the trinity is fully divine, fully God, so it is correct to call each individual person of the trinity "the only true God". Other passages in the bible make clear that the Holy Spirit is a divine person who is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent. And regarding other people being called gods, im assuming u mean the word elohim. It's true that other things can be called gods (elohim) in Hebrew, but thats where it ends. When it uses the hebrew YHVH it is 100% always God because it's God's name. And u know the passages in new testament where Jesus uses the Greek form of this divine name for Himself and people accused him of blasphemy? And dont forget John 20:28 where Thomas explicitly called Jesus his God, that cant be ignored. The greek is clear. And regarding ancient judaism, consider what the contemporary jewish scholar daniel boyarin wrote regarding the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven (something only God does in OT) in Daniel 7: "What this text [Daniel 7] projects is a second divine figure to whom will be given eternal dominion of the entire world…. In other words, a simile, a God who looks like a human being (literally Son of Man) has become the name for that God, who is now called “Son of Man,” a reference to his human-appearing divinity"
I imagine that this is what it might have sounded like debating the Arians at the Council of Nicaea or any of the other heresies of the first few centuries. This is also a good example of why we need another authority outside of Scripture, the Church, which is the pillar and foundation of truth, to pass on, without error, the revelation of Jesus Christ.
According to more than one source (i.e. Malachi Martin and Friar Michel de la Sainte Trinité) the Third Secret of Fatima (not released to the public) is about The Book of Revelation chapters 8 to 13. These talk partly about the seven destructive angelic trumpets that signify the collapse of religion, particularly the phenomenon of the Post-Vatican II Council new religion, that as of late is associated with LGBT "masses" and an underground gay lifestyle subculture admitted by several of its hierarchical figures (e.g. "Bishop" Morlino from Wisconsin). Sister Lucia of Fatima (see her Interview with Father Fuentes in 1957), who wrote the Third Secret, said the Third Secret was concerned with a punishment associated with Russia to be put in effect by 1960. Thus the Vatican II new religion is the crumbling object the seven angelic trumpets of Revelation continually destroy. And the proof the Vatican II religion means the Russian tiara substituting the papal tiara, is that Olavo de Carvalho (Brazilian philosopher interviewed by Nyquist a few times) himself noted, in a public talk (in reference to a book he was reading), that the Soviet spies present in the Vatican II Council reported there was nothing for them to do in there, the very ordinary participants of the council were doing the spies' job for them in ravaging religion. Of course the effects of the council were tragic, even according to some post-conciliar commentators and nonCatholics alike; the statistics and other qualitative details speak for themselves. The last three trumpets sounded by the last three angels are the famous Three Days of Darkness [that are not literal days] foretold by Blessed Anna Maria Taigi in the 19th century, other similar predictions having been made by people of repute among Catholics since then. These three days of darkness, according to Anna Maria Taigi, are to do with spiritual punishments coming from heaven, but also with temporal punishments coming from earth in the form of wars and revolutions. The Ukraine War signals the coming of these three days of darkness (which are not literal days, by the way, this being a symbolism); and the timing perfectly matches the Revelation chapters, for the three last trumpets begin after the fourth trumpet obscured a third of the sun, moon and stars. The obscuring of a third part is a symbol for a gradual process, for duality means gestation, thus getting rid of the third part means a progressive effect; and that the obscuring is to gradually take hold, until it reaches a momentum (three days of darkness or last three trumpets). This fourth trumpet that obscures sun, moon and stars, means the obscuring or waning of the secular signs of religious authority; the loss of credibility of religious authorities, especially within the Post-Vatican II religion, having reached an unprecedented accumulation, as is well known. And to prove the three last trumpets stand for three days, all you have to do is take into consideration that just as the fourth day of the week is Wednesday whether or not you count the days from first to last or from last to first; the destruction of the trumpets corresponding to the reverse order as compared to the Genesis seven days of creation; both the Genesis creation fourth day and the Trumpets' fourth day deal with the exact same object, namely, the sun, moon and stars. Other details can be given, but basically what is happening is that the three days preceding total collapse are approaching, and they are supposed to be fraught with wars and strange evils. The Revelation narrative is sufficient for one to interpret these events as meaning that the World as we know it will never return, and in fact has not been what it was ordinarily for some time. The blessed candles ("candele benedette") affording illumination during the three days of darkness, reffered to by Taigi, are the Benedictine monks from Rochester, the Dimond Brothers, who are the two witnesses of Revelation 11, the two olive trees and the two candlesticks during the darkness.] Check out the youtube video "Quick proof Michael Lofton is a hypnotist spin doctor"
According to more than one source (i.e. Malachi Martin and Friar Michel de la Sainte Trinité) the Third Secret of Fatima (not released to the public) is about The Book of Revelation chapters 8 to 13. These talk partly about the seven destructive angelic trumpets that signify the collapse of religion, particularly the phenomenon of the Post-Vatican II Council new religion, that as of late is associated with LGBT "masses" and an underground gay lifestyle subculture admitted by several of its hierarchical figures (e.g. "Bishop" Morlino from Wisconsin). Sister Lucia of Fatima (see her Interview with Father Fuentes in 1957), who wrote the Third Secret, said the Third Secret was concerned with a punishment associated with Russia to be put in effect by 1960. Thus the Vatican II new religion is the crumbling object the seven angelic trumpets of Revelation continually destroy. And the proof the Vatican II religion means the Russian tiara substituting the papal tiara, is that Olavo de Carvalho (Brazilian philosopher interviewed by Nyquist a few times) himself noted, in a public talk (in reference to a book he was reading), that the Soviet spies present in the Vatican II Council reported there was nothing for them to do in there, the very ordinary participants of the council were doing the spies' job for them in ravaging religion. Of course the effects of the council were tragic, even according to some post-conciliar commentators and nonCatholics alike; the statistics and other qualitative details speak for themselves. The last three trumpets sounded by the last three angels are the famous Three Days of Darkness [that are not literal days] foretold by Blessed Anna Maria Taigi in the 19th century, other similar predictions having been made by people of repute among Catholics since then. These three days of darkness, according to Anna Maria Taigi, are to do with spiritual punishments coming from heaven, but also with temporal punishments coming from earth in the form of wars and revolutions. The Ukraine War signals the coming of these three days of darkness (which are not literal days, by the way, this being a symbolism); and the timing perfectly matches the Revelation chapters, for the three last trumpets begin after the fourth trumpet obscured a third of the sun, moon and stars. The obscuring of a third part is a symbol for a gradual process, for duality means gestation, thus getting rid of the third part means a progressive effect; and that the obscuring is to gradually take hold, until it reaches a momentum (three days of darkness or last three trumpets). This fourth trumpet that obscures sun, moon and stars, means the obscuring or waning of the secular signs of religious authority; the loss of credibility of religious authorities, especially within the Post-Vatican II religion, having reached an unprecedented accumulation, as is well known. And to prove the three last trumpets stand for three days, all you have to do is take into consideration that just as the fourth day of the week is Wednesday whether or not you count the days from first to last or from last to first; the destruction of the trumpets corresponding to the reverse order as compared to the Genesis seven days of creation; both the Genesis creation fourth day and the Trumpets' fourth day deal with the exact same object, namely, the sun, moon and stars. Other details can be given, but basically what is happening is that the three days preceding total collapse are approaching, and they are supposed to be fraught with wars and strange evils. The Revelation narrative is sufficient for one to interpret these events as meaning that the World as we know it will never return, and in fact has not been what it was ordinarily for some time. The blessed candles ("candele benedette") affording illumination during the three days of darkness, reffered to by Taigi, are the Benedictine monks from Rochester, the Dimond Brothers, who are the two witnesses of Revelation 11, the two olive trees and the two candlesticks during the darkness.] Check out the youtube video "Quick proof Michael Lofton is a hypnotist spin doctor"
@@blackwood3243 It was given to me, and to no one else, to interpret the bible and find out a lofty truth, that the vinegar Jesus drank in the Crucifixion was turned to wine miraculously, and this is a sufficient rhetoric sign from heaven that I am a prophet. You are cornered into making the case that the argumentation/evidence-giving I made in favour of the vinegar having turned into wine, is simply ridiculous and manifestly untrue; or insufficient, rhetorically speaking, to impress. That is your position, or at least your probable position. In other words, your position is the case for the vinegar having become wine is ridiculous. Some of the parallelisms that support this claim, that the vinegar was turned to wine miraculously, are that 1) in both the Wedding in Cana and in the Crucifixion ´[in John's Gospel] Mary is called "woman" by Christ; 2) in both reference is made to an "hour" in a mysterious way, ("my hour has not yet come" / "and from that hour he took her to himself"), 3) the vessels containing the ritual purification water are parallel with the hyssop (aromatic plant used in purification rituals in Judaism which was consumed by Christ together with the vinegar). An honest person who went through the arguments (the latter being the tip of the iceberg) can see my thesis is overwhelmingly true. And you are denying something that can be demonstrated exclusively because; if I am proven right (and there is plenty more evidence whence the argumentation came) it would mean I was given a lofty surprising truth basically no Catholic or purported Christian likely ever knew. Your reaction, thus, exemplifies human nature imprisoned in the cell of the "safe haven of ordinary life", nothing challenging this illusion, even if mathematically demonstrated, has the right to exist. Is it not true that you conflate the expectations of ordinary life with truth, and nothing challenging this outlook is likely to be accepted by you? You know it is true. Given that, shouldn't I, rather, feel sorry for you?
@@blackwood3243 First of all, if this is what you really think, that I have a mental disorder, why take the challenging and at least slightly excited confrontational tone you are using? I read an etiquette manual once which, for example, pointed out it is reputable and ok to agree outwardly with someone irritated (even though you don't really agree with this someone), because the person is in a condition which is out of their usual self like (analogically) a crazy person, and therefore you're not unequivocally addressing the person when you address the person in this state. So, if I am mentally ill, as you say, why insist repeatedly [as you do] I am wrong and you feel sorry for me and I am literally mentally ill etc. (things that would disturb and be doubtfully helpful to address to someone mentally ill)? Besides, it is to me highly probable you are very inferior to me in terms of learning and familiarity with precisely the disciplines that would allow one to argue and engage in a debate (rhetoric, Aristotelian logic, etiquette, epistemology etc.); and most of the discomfort and objection your words imply has to do with my using a language that is unconventional to you. If you read Edmund Husserl's The Crisis of European Sciences and Transcendental Phenomenology (Northwestern University Press) you'd probably think the author is crazy or unintelligible at best, because you would be out of your depth. What I said stands; there is biblical sufficient and even overwhelming evidence the vinegar Jesus drank during the Crucifixion was turned to wine miraculously, because the vinegar passage in many ways is demonstrably a call back to the Wedding in Cana passage, in which the worse wine of the last hour is turned to good wine from the beginning. Were you to examine the full passage from my published and available book (Commentary on the Secret of La Salette) discussing this topic, it isn't likely you'd be able to raise any meaningful objection to this thesis. Examining the thesis in itself, regardless of what quality you atribute to me personally, would be unthinkable to you (so it seems), and this proves the point you are all about convention to the detrimento of truth, you are about trusting there is nothing outside the realm of "ordinary life" with the right to exist. Seemingly, this is a fact.
This was incredible to watch and to listen. Although I agree with the Christian perspective here, I thought Dr. Ally did an amazing job challenging us to think more deeply and lucidly of the Faith. In particular, his ten-minute closing remarks were so keen: like a paring knife. Very impressive. Thank you Mr. Lofton for airing this on TH-cam for the world to see.
Just came across this excellent debate. Well argued throughout, Michael. I have to say that I find myself having much more in common with people of faith (even one not my own) than with affluent Western secularists. I'm a Catholic, but impressed by the clarity and obvious good will of Dr. Ally.
I for one really appreciate this.. I have had issues with neighbours taking drugs and partying every night for the last 3 years so when I watched I was unable to have subtitles on.. Now I can revisit a debate I only caught half of and although my issue is still ongoing I can watch and pay attention and still record to provide recordings to multiple groups such as police, support worker, social worker, safeguarding team and solicitors/lawyer without any sound interference in the recordings.. Thnx so much sir.. We all get trials hence why I've not gone mad and acted.. I will stay just and within the law regardless but being patient as a Saint has helped me see, things I missed may come back around but things I must do and act upon it suits me better that I act accordingly and not so much by the governments laws but by God laws.. They seem to align nicely but given that I had not followed God and Christ and the Holy Ghost then I may have been able to take legal action sooner.. But since I did all the previous reports and evidence is now compiled and will make things so much easier for me in the following month's.. Like.. Sure I wish the harassment stopped sooner but I gave in the tens of chances over years and now it is not even in my hands.. Apparently if you're disabled/autistic it's not only a discrimination but also a hate crime when people call you spacxa.. I didn't know but after so long safeguarding and a solicitor have seen and heard the recordings and apparently it's bad.. Maybe now something will be done and all praise be unto God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost/Spirit.. I knew trying to be nice to those who would bully me and persecute me would pay off.. Given chance I'd gladly be thrown to the lions now knowing the correct course of action to follow.. I would still like to see justice upon those who persecuted me but "vengeance is the Lords" As the good book/the word days.. 👍❤️👍
Like literally even when they bullied me and said "you're gonna die you fxxkin bxstxrd" which I got recorded while I was walking my dog.. R.i.P my little spaniel Charlie you're missed dearly and greatly.. I just sped up and walked on.. But recorded what was said and that's now usable in court too.. Like.. I don't want them evicted or imprisoned I just want them to understand that they can't do this.. Like.. I don't cause trouble so trouble should not come to me, and I understand that people have told me the people who stsrt trouble never want trouble and that's why I have legal representatives from multiple sources.. I don't want to have to make those decisions because if I decided let's not do anything then I'm in fact giving them the ability to effect others negatively for possibly 2 to 3 years like they done with me before the police can act.. I still feel bad even though its not in my hands and its not like I'm tattlimg on them for doing drugs and stuff I'm only wanting them to leave me alone.. Its other people reviewing the footage that I'm too distressed to go back through that are doing this.. I still feel bad and I hope they learn to be nicer and not nasty but I honestly don't know how it's going to go now with other people taking over the case.. To be honest I'm kinda scared because I don't know what's to come or how it works and I just pray God and Christ with the Holy Ghost/Spirit guides me and helps me because I am scared and unsure.. Only other time in my life I been asked things or spoke to the police it was nothing to do with me and I told everything I seen.. Turns out it was a drug dealers breaking one guys windows and trying to attack him because they had the wrong house.. I got threatened but still went to court to speak and uhmm.. Probably should stop.. I know the Internet had a lot of nasty bad people who don't have good, just, or real morals and this could make me a target.. I don't really care.. The Lord is my shephard, my staff and my stave.. By his iron rod and his righteousness I would be ruled and be happy.. Given just or unjust I will take the persecution so long as I be found loving and with our Lord and saviour not offending him..
@@ReasonandTheology and they're final Prophets claim our Bible is exist at the time of his lifetime is the true Uncorrupted true word of God and when I see those texts from the Islamic Source I see he was just a confused man
@@ReasonandTheology old testament is 50-50..its almost like between those time periods a person(cough cough mohammed cough) picked and chosen what they should belive and dshouldnt for the old testament and included a few characters who I refer to characters as they can't be historically verified by second or third party sources.. At least jesus wasn't denied by all, he's known even by those who condemned him,,, pontius pilate, juda escargot, even that apostle who was forgiven saying "even you will deny me three times before the midnight" or accurate as I recall that was our Lord and saviours words..
@ReasonandTheologi Hi, I'm from Indonesia. Very nice and respectful debate between you and Dr Shabir, I really enjoyed it. . I'm wondering, after watching some debates videos between Christian and Muslim on this Trinity topic, I found out that many Christian are limiting their defense only using their own interpretation of the scripture or scholar commentary on certain verses. Almost none of the Christian debaters are using the views from the early Church Tradition (Holly Apostolic Tradition) and early Church Fathers about Trinity. Because if we only use the verses from the Bible, in the end, it will all come down to how you interpret those verses. Because you can't read the Bible in the light of your own interpretation. It must he read in the light of Church Tradition (The pillar of Truth), the authority that recognized the Words of Father within the scriptures. . Another thing is that the Bible is full of "contradiction" and ambiguity for those who read it outside the light of Church Tradition. So, debating using human interpretation at the end will result in nothing. There will always be verses that support Trinity and verses that somewhat contradict Trinity. Same as for other topic/doctrines, for example the power to forgive sins, Jesus divinity, etc . So my question is, why didn't you use more argument from early Church Tradition and Church Fathers?
It’s always constructive to have such interactions, I even find this more intellectually honest than when “Bible-Alone” Christians debate Catholics…However, I don’t know how to put this : engaging a Muslim on the interpretation of the Bible is weird, they bring a direct face value to writings which is something “Bible-Alone” Christianity has adopted in the essence and origins of “Sola-scriptura” and we know where it took us…! First of all the disciples where writing to specific peoples with specific writings and traditions so they will use words, analogies, and traditions (even unwritten ones) assuming the readers know them…Second: the New Testament is written to this Jews in typology to show how Jesus was the one the entire Old Testament was predicting and foreshadowing, thus bringing the fulfillment of all the old covenant prophecies ! In that logic such a debate with a Muslim is pointless…For them, the Word of God is at face value ! A better approach is to debate on the objectives justifications of both “the Bible vs the Coran” ! Nevertheless, this is always constructive and a good step !
They have to read is at face-value or literally to support the position that Jesus is not God and affirm the concept of Tahwid (God being totally separate from man) To associate anyone with God is a Shirk (grave Sin) known as associationism.
All that I'm getting from this is that Shabir doesn't understand the doctrine of the Trinity. He should read the Summa Theologica; Aquinas covers this topic pretty well I think.
1 thing I must say, when Shabir says that Jesus should’ve just made clear he was God by saying he is God, this ruins his position. First Shabir asserts that the word “God and Divinity” is vague, since there are Judges in the book of Samuel who were referred to as gods. Therefor, the Christian and Michael’s position must be correct. This is due to the fact that it must be then that Jesus must use words that aren’t as vague as God, which is the whole “before Abraham was, I AM”. This lessens the confusion then, and thus Shabir’s critique of Michael at the end is rendered as a contradiction. Furthermore, Shabir says that Jesus is referred to as Lord in the apostolic creed , therefore he can’t be God. This is further from the truth , for the Word Lord is literally used to describe God the Father. Therefore the apostles looked at Jesus as God. Now I must say that Shabir definitely did well in this debate, in fact, he’s the only Muslim apologist that I have an immense respect for. His charity is good and his arguments are well. So here are some parts that I think is a highlight for Shabir His argument from the subordinate nature of Jesus was good. Of course it’s a question that brings the Christians in a tough position, but Lofton’s response was true. But still props to Ally. Next he argues against the God nature of Jesus because of YahWeh, I thought it was a good argument because he proceeds to show problems when Lofton affirms that the 3 Godheads are YahWeh. Finally, Shabir’s arguments when it was showed that Paul and the Gospel of John says Jesus has an “ultimate” God was a good argument. Though it was an assertion, he did provide an argument where Jesus is the “intermediate God”. Thus I thought he did well.
@@ASA_1347 i will say that John makes a good case for Christ’s divinity, but As for Isaiah and Revelation, i peeked Isaiah, it seemed to me to be very general in KJV and NIV, where the word Lord is used. Forgive my lack of exegesis knowledge here though as I’m quite inexperienced with Biblical Literary. Nonetheless what u have listed is very interesting for Christ Divinity
Bit late to the party here haha. In any case, great debate. While I’d have to say that Michael won, Dr. Ally did a great job making us Christians think critically about the New Testament. Excellent job keeping things civil and calm. Respect to both gentleman.
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades
Seems like Michael took on a bigger task than was necessary by setting out to prove Jesus' divinity, rather than sticking with the topic "Does the NT affirm Jesus' divinity?" .... I think he did a good job of both but the issue of NT authorship and the dating of the Gospels is entirely irrelevant.
2:26:55 Philip *said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. John 14:8-10 NASB1995
“Look, he is coming with the clouds,”[b] and “every eye will see him, even those who pierced him”; and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”[c] So shall it be! Amen. 8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Shabir made a lot more sense in his closing statement. I has doubts about turning to Islam, but now for sure with this debate I have no doubt the Qurán is the truth from Allāh and prophet Muhammad is a messenger of Allāh and Jesus is also a messenger of Allāh.
Welcome to Islam! If you haven’t done your Shahada, go to the mosque so you can declare it publicly so other Muslims know you are Muslim. And it’s good to connect with practicing Muslims so that you have support. May God bless you!
@@declansceltic198 I copy and pasted the list, but you can take out the ones that have to deal with the prophet (pbuh) himself because it does not apply today. 35 quotes from Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the last messenger of God. He is the best of creation, he is a role model on how to be of exemplary character, kindness, compassion, mercy, gratitude, thankfulness, abundance, courage, fearlessness, self-reflection, and an unwavering belief in his mission. May these Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) Quotes have a profound impact on you to be the best that you can possibly be. Do not judge people based on what the media portrays them to be. Do your own research and find out what makes this man the finest of men to have graced the earth. 1. “Be kind, for whenever kindness becomes part of something, it beautifies it. Whenever it is taken from something, it leaves it tarnished.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 2. “The best among you is the one who doesn’t harm others with his tongue and hands.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 3. “A good man treats women with honour.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 4. “The greatest of richness is the richness of the soul.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 5. “There is reward for kindness to every living thing.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 6. “Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 7. “The greatest jihad (struggle/striving) is to battle your own soul, to fight the evil within yourself.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 8. “The strongest among you is the one who controls his anger.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 9. “God does not look at your forms and possessions but he looks at your hearts and your deeds.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 10. “Riches are not from an abundance of worldly good but from a contented mind.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 11. “Exchange gifts, you will love one another.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 12. “The best among you are those who have the best manners and character.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 13. “No two things have been combined better than knowledge and patience.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 14. “Tell people of glad tidings and do not push them away.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 15. “The best of houses is the house where an orphan gets love and kindness.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 16. “The believer does not slander, curse, or speak in an obscene or foul manner.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 17. “A kind word is a form of charity.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 18. “A father gives nothing better than good education.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 19. “Feed the hungry and visit a sick person, and free the captive, if he be unjustly confined. Assist any person oppressed whether Muslim or non-Muslim.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 20. “Seek knowledge from cradle to the grave.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 21. “Do not waste water even if you were at a running stream.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 22. “A white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good actions.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 23. “When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart give it up.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 24. “You do not do evil to those who do evil to you, but you deal with them with forgiveness and kindness.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 25. “He is not a true believer who eats his fill while his neighbour is hungry.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 26. “However much the faith of a man increases, his regard for women increases.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 27. “What has reached you was never meant to miss you, and what has missed you was never meant to reach you.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 28. “When you see a person who has been given more than you in money and beauty. Look to those, who have been given less.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 29. “Speak good or remain silent.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 30. “Make things easy for people and not difficult. Give people good news and bring them joy, and do not turn them away.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 31. “Remember your own faults when you want to mention of others.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 32. “Those who are patient in adversity and forgive wrongs are the doers of excellence.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 33. “Modesty brings nothing except good.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 34. “The most perfect man in his faith among the believers is the one whose behaviour is most excellent, and the best of you are those who are the best to their wives.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) 35. Happy is the man who avoids hardship, but how fine is the man who is afflicted and shows endurance.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
@@mistert8775 "There came a slave and pledged allegiance to Allah's Apostle on migration; he (the Holy Prophet) did not know that he was a slave. Then there came his master and demanded him back, whereupon Allah's Apostle said: Sell him to me. And he bought him for two black slaves, and he did not afterwards take allegiance from anyone until he had asked him whether he was a slave (or a free man)" Muhammad owned slaves. Jesus lived and died as a slave. That's the difference between who you follow and who I follow.
As a Christian I think these debates are very important because I feel that many Muslims do not understand Christian theology and in particular about The Trinity and Jesus Incarnation. I have seen tons of Dr Ally's debates (with eg James White) and hes one of the best Muslim debates.
They don’t want to understand. Shabir Ally is indeed the most sincere, but he is not like most muslims apologists. Hee is also one of few muslim apologists that believes in evolution, idk he is a bit different. But like Muhammed Hijab said: “Jesus can’t be all-powerful and not all-powerful at the same time” Seriously, it so lazy. He would only be true if we said that Christ has one nature and 1 because 1 nature and 1 mind can not generate both all-knowledge and yet not all-knowledge. But Christians literally believe Christ has 2 natures and 2 minds, so one mind generates all-knowledge and the other knows not all knowledge. There is nothing Philosophically to debunk this
Hey Mr lofton can I ask you to make a response to this person name orthodox shahada he just made a community post which I think is a stray man or a caricature of our Catholic faith thank you
Although I doubt he will accept, debate the same topic with Bart Ehrmen. He seems to only be on shows where the host agrees with him. He believes neither Jesus nor His early disciples thought He was God.
@@ReasonandTheology I just saw one of your videos with Ehrman in it. Here is the interview with him that was put up on YT two days ago as of this writing in which he states he does not believe in God and that Jesus disciples did not believe he was God th-cam.com/video/njXCAc63rkc/w-d-xo.html
God has sent 124000 messengers for the guidance of humanity. The 1st was Adam and the last was Muhammad. All of these were Prophets and many of them had great miracles. Jesus (The Essa A.S) was a mightiest messenger of God, the people for who's guidance he was sent took him for God.
"God has sent 124,000 messengers". That's clearly not in the Quran, so is it from your Hadith collections? The ones your fellow Shia Muslims reject as false?
@@ReasonandTheology since you replied on my comment I would like to say a couple of things: First God incarnated for a reason. Not to do miracles. Not show us who He is but to save us. If He showed us his complete glory then why he incarnated? Then also no one would seek to sacrifice him. All His plan would be changed to meet our desires not His. We then will not be saved. The second thing is very important. Our faith in Jesus doesn't rely on books but on Jesus and extended from the disciples. So we are the ones who know the meaning of the gospel and we do not get the meaning of our faith from the words of the gospel simply because not everything can be written nor witnessed by human nor recorded by cameras . Blessings
@@ReasonandTheology By the way, your news about Hilarion Heggie went viral in the Arabic Social Media and news. They made him a very important figure in the Catholic Church. Some people get their faith from news.
@@ReasonandTheology just search for his new name in arabic سعيد عبد اللطيف then you will find this th-cam.com/users/results?search_query=%D8%B3%D8%B9%D9%8A%D8%AF+%D8%B9%D8%A8%D8%AF%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%81 BBC Arabic talked about it th-cam.com/video/vDwQ6IiGRl4/w-d-xo.html
In the Qoran it says that Jesus was born of a Virgin. How then can he be compared to any other man? They also say that He is Roh allah and kalimat allah , meaning the spirit and word of God. When you confront them with that they beat around the bush and say that it means word and spirit FROM allah. But that is not what is written.
Very interessting about the detail that Isa is refered to as WORD and SPIRIT of GOD. However there are a lot of differences which show that Isa can't be JESUS CHRIST because Isa - is not the son of GOD - didn't die on the cross but was exchanged for Judas - did not ressuract The only logic and theologic conclusion is Isa is not JESUS CHRIST because + JESUS CHRIST is the son of GOD + JESUS CHRIST died on the cross as GOD's perfect lamb + JESUS CHRIST ressuracted on the 3rd day It is simply a perversion of gospel and therefore needs to be adressed as such. Gal 1;7-9 But there are some who are disturbing you and wish to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach [to you] a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed! 9 As we have said before, and now I say again, if anyone preaches to you a gospel other than the one that you received, let that one be accursed!
@@igor.michael do you know about the Christian Prince aka Arab Prince? He destroys any legitimity of that last book, religion and messenger. So many mistakes and contradictions in a supposedly book revealed by God: Mary Mother of Jesus is confused with Miriam sister of Moses and Aaron, semen coming from women, "verses revealed" to make himself obeyed by his wives, or after his friend suggested something (example the verse about veiling, etc... It s a sham religion, sadly. So it couldn t be right about Jesus son of God.
@@Joliebebe2001 I know who he is, but my main problem with Christian Prince seems to be uncharitable in his approach at times I understand his aggression in some circumstances other times it is unwarranted.
@@vaderkurt7848 yeah he is very aggressive, specially when the caller is disrespectful. That prevented me from sharing his videos to my muslim friends and relatives. Which is sad. I still listened to him to understand that religion that he knows extremely well. Him and David Wood.
@@igor.michael yes I totally agree with you but that is the proof that (the whole Qoran) is a miss mash of stories that do not connect and make no sense. The name ISA was never mentioned in the Scriptures. They take perverted parts out of the Old Testament and perverted parts of the New Testament. Add all kinds of untruths and make one mixed up story . What I would like to be used in a discussion with muslims , are those parts which I mentioned when we try to describe the Trinity to them , by using their own words. They are taught that Mary was a Virgin and that the child was Roh Allah and Kalimat Allah. They are indicating that Jesus is the Word and the Spirit of God . which is exactly the Trinity! Then they say we believe in 3 gods. I can give more details about that on how they then distort their own words when you point to that. This platform is too limited to go into every detail. The Trinity is ONE GOD , not 3 gods as they say. This ONE God is the Father, The Son (the WORD ) and the Holy Spirit (spirit of God). Obviously they only post to the human nature of Jesus and obviously a human being cannot be God. I totally agree with them! The WORD incarnated into the Flesh etc. etc. has to be specified. The fact that He Resurrected is not mentioned. They do speak of resurrection at the end times (like us) but also have no idea of what they are talking about. Personally, but I am not a professional Bible scholar or a professional speaker or anything else of that sort, personally I would NEVER start a discussion with a muslim about Christianity BEFORE I discuss the Trinity. Before the TRINITY we have to discuss how all the prophecies in the Old Testament are fulfilled in the NEW. They don't want to accept that, then no continuation of the talk. Without the Trinity , then the whole discussion will fail. All the other details which we might present to them will mean exactly NOTHING to them.
After listening to too many debates and reading the history of Christianity I became convinced that Christianity is nothing but a strange mix of ancient mythologies .
A strange mix of mythologies? What is Islam then? Islam has apocryphal scripture, Talmudic lessons, Jewish legends and pagan customs all bundled together as the supposed word of God. People made fun of Mohammed's stupidity! If it wasn't for his brutality and power during his years as head of the military and for the law of killing of apostates, Islam would have NEVER spread/survived. Also if the authors of the New Testament knew they were just pranking everybody by retelling old myths, why did they endure persecution? Why did the Gospels spread so far so fast if it was just another fairytale? The Disciples literally gave their life for their belief in Jesus, nobody would ever do that for a work of fiction.
Yes you were.. God bless you and your loved ones man..👍❤️👍 I hope you not have just a good day but many good and happy, fruitful years ahead of you.. For you and everyone of your bloodline..🙏
@@biscuitcake5894 tell me about it or don't.. If you see my other comment you'll understand.. We are all trialled and put under duress.. Hold strong like I have.. In recent years I lost my favourite aunty, my favourite brother, my favourite cousin and my dog Charlie.. I understand that we are tried.. We have to prove that we can keep going through all tribulations and we are sti here.. To make it clear I have a huge family, 20+cousins 10+immediate family and like 6 aunties and uncles.. I feel weak for using favouritism but also it made me look wider then that.. No matter what we are part of a whole and at the same time we are individuals from that whe.. Our father has a plan and we don't understand it.. Slowly it plays out and at some point we feel lost and forgotten but on the times we feel and know we are not.. They are the moments we have to hold on too.. I am almost at the age of christ when he was crucified so I may be a little more personally involved in my own mind but I believe we all experience these things.. At different times or ages.. You may well be further ahead of me and just needing of reassuring at this point I cannot say.. I'm not a sage or prophet I just know what I know and I know you deserve blessings and so do your family and in my instances I believe I don't suffer like some of my kinfolk and they deserve more blessings then me.. Ultimately we all need God, Christ and the Holy ghost/spirit on our side everyday.. Some days more then others.. Maybe not tomorrow or the day after but I will pray right now(or God strike me down dead please) that you find a day or more coming that strengthen you and give you resolve and what else you need.. Or an idea of a path you can take to what you need(I say it like this because I don't like to say things like the fake protestant evangelical born again, had a bath type Christian's) but as a brother under christ who knows hardships and deals with death daily(I dispose of corpses most days).. So you can know, sometimes we cause issue, sometimes we clean up.. At the end of days it is determined by our hearts, minds and where we stand..👍
Well done Michael Lofton! Im sorry but its always so painful for me to listen to Muslims assert what our ancient holy scriptures say & mean, its just imposed scriptorture, just like others that misrep the faith, they all have this in common. Maybe I will read the Quran & tell them what it says, & just because one is a Muslim scholar it by no means makes them a biblical Christian scholar, they don't know Him in whom is hidden all the treasures of wisdom & knowledge, the light that enlightens all men, full of grace & truth, who upholds all things by the word of His power, in Him all things consist, Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, the Son of Man that came up on the clouds of heaven to the Ancient of Days, all glory, honor, might, dominion, & majesty, to Him on the throne & the Lamb, The Good Shepherd, I AM. There is no logical rational way I could read the New Test nm the entirety of scripture & not conclude that Christ Jesus is Divine, this is why He was crucified. The Father does the works thru Him as the power of God was w/ Him & His humanity as He emptied Himself. The Father & Son are both attributed to raising Him from the dead. He was sent from heaven, born of the blessed Virgin Mary by the power of the Holy Spirit, which should shut many arguments down & even in Johns Gospel, all who came to arrest Him fell back when He said I AM He, He could call on legions of Angels. The thing which is overlooked by many, is, would those whom hold a heterodox view of Christ being only human but claim to be believers, worship 2 beings, Christ & God? This is never addressed, grace & peace to like minded believers in the Son of God
Wow, all pathetic assumptions, it's a pity Christian's don't believe what Jesus said, that would make your message real clear and not so double minded. Cheers, Plastic Maori
I admire Dr Shamir Ally courage he has constantly point out the obscurity in front of Christians. What it comes down to from what I realized from his debate with Jay smith and others is effort. Christians like the complacency offered and the idea that their sins are paid for whereas Islam you’re responsible for your sins and there’s prayer and fasting and the discipline. Just like in college people tend to go for easier fields same thing applies. If the book you based your salvation is not clear and it’s doctrine is not explicit naturally one should have many questions and doubts. naturally
John 17:3: And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. " Jesus says that there is only one true God and he was sent by that one TRUE GOD. Jesus was a prophet sent by GOD. He only followed GOD's command.
@Ave Crux Spes Unica why god should be humble and he is the beginning and the end ? he is the owner of everything, this contradicts with being independent or perfect all time , have you heard about Egyptian mythology , the conception of horus the son of Isis and Osiris is familiar in the ancient egyptian civilization
Since Dr Ally is so hung up on Jesus humanity not knowing the final hour, you should have asked him which side of the flys wing ( left or right) carries disease and which carries the cure. That always confuses me whenever I run out of theraflu.
@@mrsmarsh6619 Christ divine nature knows, while his human nature doesn’t. I know that sounds insane but it’s a mystery no one can comprehend. Even the souls who are in heaven don’t know the hour, of course since their united with God in the beatific vision (by will not by nature) they’d never ask such things of God.
@@gamers7800 Any answer that starts with 'I know that sounds insane' immediately raises a red flag?? I do know for sure God the Father knows the last hour because the Father is ALL KNOWING.
@@mrsmarsh6619 True, God know all things and Christ is the second person of the Holy Trinity, consubstantial with the father and the Holy Ghost. No one can Comprehend the inner life of the Trinity. As Virgil says to Dante who is confused at something’s he sees in the inferno “look and pass on.” These things will remain a mystery no matter how hard we ponder them.
@@gamers7800 True, God the Father is the only one who knows the last hour; No mention of trinity here??? Virgil and Dante quotes? Surely you're eternal salvation doesn't need philosopher's remarks to verify it?? What about your bible? That will be good. P.M cheers
Well, first of all, to specify terms, Jesus could be "divine" but subordinate to YHWH, God the Father. Certainly, "The word was with God and the word was divine" as the Orthodox study Bible renders it, says that Jesus was divine, but not necessarily the same person, or participating in the same person, as YHWH.
any particular scripture claims to be divinely inspired by God. Reading & understanding its content makes it obvious which is divinely inspired, and which is not. It doesn't benefit us to vainly defend the religion we were born into if we discover that it cannot be from God. The Trinity was just a vain attempt to describe the nature of God who is literally indescribable. God does not become lesser if Christ is symbolically at God's right hand. (1 Peter 3:22, Acts 7:55-56, Heb 1:3, 12:2)
MICHAEL, IN THE DIVINE NATURE ONLY EXIST TREE ENTITIES OR PERSONS BUT THAT DIVINE NATURE IS WHAT WE CALL GOD. IN THAT WAY WE KNOW THAT THE TREE DIVINITY PERSONS ARE EQUALLY DIVINE BUT ONE GOD IN NATURE
Jesus never ever claimed to be divine himself. Instead, he prayed to one true GOD and followed GOD's command. John 17:3: And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. " Jesus says that there is only one true God and he was sent by that one TRUE GOD. - - - - - - -- - -- - -- - - - - - - Jesus said that the true worshippers would be worshipping the Father...not himself. ( John 4: 23, 24 )
@@MagnumLapua338 if followers praise and call someone Lord, it does not make anyone divine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DO YOU KNOW WHAT DID JESUS HIMSELF TEACH?? John 17:3: And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. " Jesus says that there is only one true God and he was sent by that one TRUE GOD. Mark 10:18 ““Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.” Jesus said, “Hear, O Israel the Lord our God is one. ( Mark 12 : 29 - 31 ) JESUS WAS JUST A PROPHET WHO ONLY FOLLOWED GOD's COMMAND.
@@14-Peaks your understanding of the Bible is flawed. There are two moments in the Gospels in which Jesus appears to downplay Mary’s importance in front of a crowd. One of them, from yesterday’s Gospel reading, is from Matthew 12:46-50. While Jesus is teaching, Mary and others of Jesus’ “brethren” show up and ask to speak to him. “But he replied to the man who told him, ‘Who is my mother, and who are my brethren?’ And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, ‘Here are my mother and my brethren! For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother, and sister, and mother.’” On another instance, recounted in Luke 11:27-28, “a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, ‘Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts that you sucked!’ But he said, ‘Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!’” So what is going on here? Why does Jesus seem to be taking the opportunity to publicly minimize Mary’s holiness and even her maternity? The answer is that there’s more here than meets the eye. Think about Luke 18:18-19, in which a ruler refers to Jesus as “Good Teacher,” and he replies, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.” On the surface, Jesus seems to be denying his own divinity and goodness. But on closer inspection, he’s actually doing the opposite. Something similar is happening here: although Jesus at first seems to be knocking Mary down, his actual teaching shows Mary’s importance. To see why this is, it’s important to remember the context. The first words from the mouth of Jesus in the Gospel of Mark are “the time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent, and believe in the gospel” (Mark 1:15). This theme of Christ’s “kingdom” is recurrent throughout his teaching. Those listening to Jesus would naturally think of King David, the greatest king in Israel’s history. And sure enough, we find Jesus heralded as “Jesus, Son of David” (Luke 18:38). After all, God had promised David that a descendant of his would “build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever” (2 Sam. 7:13). With Jesus, we find this everlasting kingdom brought into history. But the thing about an earthly dynasty, even the House of David, is that it’s built upon ties of blood and marriage, not upon the prospective king’s qualifications. And so, although David was a great (but imperfect) ruler, his son and successor “Solomon did what was evil in the sight of the Lord, and did not wholly follow the Lord, as David his father had done” (1 Kings 11:6). The Davidic line goes dramatically downhill from here until you have kings like Ahaz of Judah, who built idols to the pagan Baals and then “burned his sons as an offering” to them, “according to the abominable practices of the nations whom the Lord drove out before the people of Israel” (2 Chron. 28:2-3). Jesus’ point in both Matthew 11 and Luke 12 isn’t to knock Mary down a peg. It’s to hammer home that, although Jesus is the fulfillment of God’s promise to the House of David, the kingdom of God isn’t going to go the way that Israel and Judah’s royal house went. Membership in this new dynasty is based not upon blood or marriage, but upon faith, so that “to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God” (John 1:12). That’s the point Jesus is making in Matthew 12: we are all invited into Jesus’ family, through faith. Slowly, Jesus’ followers will realize that this “all” includes even Samaritans and Gentiles, and that this new house “shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples” (Isa. 56:7). But what does this mean about the role of Mary? Think back to Luke 11:27-28. The woman in the crowd was thinking along bloodlines when she cried out, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts that you sucked!” And so Jesus responds, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” In saying that, it might sound as though he were saying, “Mary is not blessed,” but that can’t be right. Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit, had earlier proclaimed, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!” (Luke 1:42). So Mary is blessed as the Mother of God. But the point here is that her blessedness isn’t because of bloodlines. Rather, it’s because of faith, which is why Elizabeth continued, “Blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfilment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.” And so Mary has a true maternity-not merely along bloodlines, but even more importantly, in faith. Part of what it means to enter the family of Jesus is that Mary becomes our mother, too, even though we’re non-relatives. Hanging upon the cross on Good Friday, “Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, ‘Woman, behold, your son!’ Then he said to the disciple, ‘Behold, your mother!’ And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home” (John 19:26-27). This is more than simply ensuring that Mary has someone to look after her. Jesus is telling Mary to now think of the Beloved Disciple as her son, and for him to think of her as his mother . . . even though John’s biological mother is right there at Calvary (Matt. 27:56). Lest we think this was true only of the Beloved Disciple, and not of all beloved disciples, Revelation 12 depicts the Queen of Heaven as the mother of Jesus (Rev. 12:5) and says that “her offspring” are “those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus” (v. 17). So it’s true that, in one sense, Jesus is putting Mary “in her place” in Matthew 12 and Luke 11. It just happens that her “place” is as his mother in faith, and as the mother of Christians. “Blessed is she who believed”!
@@declansceltic198 Bible is man made as many secular confirm this with unknown author with many contradictions. God does not contradicts but man do mistakes and contradictions made from man.
@@aamanaf2203 You’re willing to type huge essays to explain the apparent contradictions of YOUR holy book, why don’t you extend the same grace to Christians? All Hail the Son of God, God in flesh, our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Shabir Ally shot himself in the foot several times, when Jesus quoted Psalms 82 he's calling them the false gods and yet these false gods judge unjustly and they will fall like any other prince these descriptions is the opposite of Jesus , Psalms 58 is very similar . Psalm 45 was a weak shot that was not speaking of David that was speaking of the promised Messiah who will be exalted what the author of Hebrews pointed out. Then Shabir you quote John 14:28 and 17:3 😮. Shabir you are finished... I would destroy you with proof texts because you don't know about Trinitarian theology for real. Muslims don't know Torah or Gospel ...
Jesus was a man from East.....Jhon, Peter, Mark, Paul etc all of these are western names. Non of jesus followers had these name, these are translated name. Jesus and Christ it self are translated names to look them like western name.
Christian guy has to go through mental gymnastics to be able to prove that Jesus is God , Jesus clearly said as the most important command, “oh Israel OUR God is one “
In the beginning was the Son then the Holy spirit the Father??? Well how can Mary the Virgen be the mother of God? When God created everything??? Didn't Isaiah prophecy that a virgen will give birth to Emanuel??? God With Us??? Muslim brothers know something is up here. Just kind of smoke this out and bail out...
The title „mother of God“ doesn't mean she created God. Only that she bore and gave birth to Jesus. Jesus' body was created through Mary but his divine nature is eternal. Your soul for example was created by God but your body was created through (mostly) your mother. But you don't have trouble still calling her your mother, although not each part of you comes from her.
@@kevinbartolen5881 Mother of God: The Council of Ephesus decreed in 431 that Mary is Theotokos ("God-bearer") because her son Jesus is both God and man: one Divine Person with two natures (divine and human). This name was translated in the West as "Mater Dei" or Mother of God. From this derives the title "Blessed Mother".
@@gustavovilla45 As the Word of God he wasn't created. What happened at the incarnation is that his divine nature joined the flesh from virgin Mary, so he became fully human while still being fully God. Mary didn't create God, that's not what the title theotokos implies.
Good work, Michael.
Praise be to our Lord Jesus Christ.
Thank you, from a Brazilian Catholic.
Se voce gosta de argumentos... To començando um canal com computaçao grafica. Talvez interesse...
Claro, gosto sim. Já me inscrevi e acompanharei seu conteúdo.
Graça e paz sempre. Viva Cristo Rei!
You do know the rest of Christian hood believe y'all catholics are going to hell right?? 😂😂😂😂
What is being such a blessing to me is reading "The Cathecism of the Council of Trent".
I was judging Catholic Church by what is going on, but that book shows the Faith so clearly.
Glory be to GOD YHWH. ❤️
I’m so happy God brought me out of Islam. Great job Michael!
Hey, I’ve seen you said that you’ve left Islam and came to Christ, may I ask how so? Personally speaking, I’ve been struggling as a Christian to reconcile the trinity. This debate in fact made it worst as I feel Shabir’s criticisms are tough. For example, when he says the word God is vague, he shows that the Judges in Samuel was referred to as Gods, which makes it harder to reconcile the argument from divinity. His argument against Michael’s position of that the 3 are YahWeh seems to be well put as well. How can God say he is the only true God and then proceed to speak of the spirit to be separate? As in, how could God the father say he is YahWeh but not the Spirit?
There’s probably more from the debate that gives me doubt, but for now ill just leave you with some of my doubts.
@@probaskinnyman4960 I recommend reading Margaret Barker, The Angel of the Lord. The most ancient biblical religion - that of the first temple - not rabbinic Judaism (which Islam is similar to), held that the Most High had a second hypostatis, who could be seen in human form, who was his Son, the Word. He was seen as equal to the Most High (Father) in divinity, yet somehow distinct. The davidic king was also anointed and believed to be the presence of God with the people, in the temple, and was called the son of God. Here we see a type of theosis. Islam’s claim to be the fulfillment and restoration of the religion of the prophets and Hebrew Scriptures is easy to fall for, and many people get duped. But when you study biblical religion through it’s appropriate lens, the lens of temple theology, which is absolutely fundamental but often overlooked, you’ll see what a joke it is. It is Catholicism that fulfills the temple and the davidic kingdom, Islam has nothing to do with it. It is not the religion of the prophets and patriarchs. I suggest checking out a video on my channel called why Islam cannot be what is claims to be: the religion of Abraham. I also have various podcast episodes on these subjects. Finally, I have an online “course” on Smart Catholics website called the Hebrew Origins of Catholicism. You might really benefit from it. God bless brother!
@@Dustin_Quick_Holy_Smokes thanks man appreciate it. Ill have to give ur channel and ur course a try soon. That book is defo in a must read
@@probaskinnyman4960 i havent watched the video yet so im not sure what u mean about God saying He's the only true God and not the Holy Spirit, but if God the Father is explicitly called God in a verse and the Holy Spirit isn't, it's not a denial of the Holy Spirit's divinity.
Each person of the trinity is fully divine, fully God, so it is correct to call each individual person of the trinity "the only true God".
Other passages in the bible make clear that the Holy Spirit is a divine person who is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent.
And regarding other people being called gods, im assuming u mean the word elohim. It's true that other things can be called gods (elohim) in Hebrew, but thats where it ends. When it uses the hebrew YHVH it is 100% always God because it's God's name. And u know the passages in new testament where Jesus uses the Greek form of this divine name for Himself and people accused him of blasphemy?
And dont forget John 20:28 where Thomas explicitly called Jesus his God, that cant be ignored. The greek is clear.
And regarding ancient judaism, consider what the contemporary jewish scholar daniel boyarin wrote regarding the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven (something only God does in OT) in Daniel 7: "What this text [Daniel 7] projects is a second divine figure to whom will be given eternal dominion of the entire world…. In other words, a simile, a God who looks like a human being (literally Son of Man) has become the name for that God, who is now called “Son of Man,” a reference to his human-appearing divinity"
@@justsomevids4541 i now want to see your review of this debate! Cool rebuttal friend, don’t think i can say much tbh. Thanks again
I imagine that this is what it might have sounded like debating the Arians at the Council of Nicaea or any of the other heresies of the first few centuries. This is also a good example of why we need another authority outside of Scripture, the Church, which is the pillar and foundation of truth, to pass on, without error, the revelation of Jesus Christ.
According to more than one source (i.e. Malachi Martin and Friar Michel de la Sainte Trinité) the Third Secret of Fatima (not released to the public) is about The Book of Revelation chapters 8 to 13. These talk partly about the seven destructive angelic trumpets that signify the collapse of religion, particularly the phenomenon of the Post-Vatican II Council new religion, that as of late is associated with LGBT "masses" and an underground gay lifestyle subculture admitted by several of its hierarchical figures (e.g. "Bishop" Morlino from Wisconsin). Sister Lucia of Fatima (see her Interview with Father Fuentes in 1957), who wrote the Third Secret, said the Third Secret was concerned with a punishment associated with Russia to be put in effect by 1960. Thus the Vatican II new religion is the crumbling object the seven angelic trumpets of Revelation continually destroy. And the proof the Vatican II religion means the Russian tiara substituting the papal tiara, is that Olavo de Carvalho (Brazilian philosopher interviewed by Nyquist a few times) himself noted, in a public talk (in reference to a book he was reading), that the Soviet spies present in the Vatican II Council reported there was nothing for them to do in there, the very ordinary participants of the council were doing the spies' job for them in ravaging religion. Of course the effects of the council were tragic, even according to some post-conciliar commentators and nonCatholics alike; the statistics and other qualitative details speak for themselves. The last three trumpets sounded by the last three angels are the famous Three Days of Darkness [that are not literal days] foretold by Blessed Anna Maria Taigi in the 19th century, other similar predictions having been made by people of repute among Catholics since then. These three days of darkness, according to Anna Maria Taigi, are to do with spiritual punishments coming from heaven, but also with temporal punishments coming from earth in the form of wars and revolutions. The Ukraine War signals the coming of these three days of darkness (which are not literal days, by the way, this being a symbolism); and the timing perfectly matches the Revelation chapters, for the three last trumpets begin after the fourth trumpet obscured a third of the sun, moon and stars. The obscuring of a third part is a symbol for a gradual process, for duality means gestation, thus getting rid of the third part means a progressive effect; and that the obscuring is to gradually take hold, until it reaches a momentum (three days of darkness or last three trumpets). This fourth trumpet that obscures sun, moon and stars, means the obscuring or waning of the secular signs of religious authority; the loss of credibility of religious authorities, especially within the Post-Vatican II religion, having reached an unprecedented accumulation, as is well known. And to prove the three last trumpets stand for three days, all you have to do is take into consideration that just as the fourth day of the week is Wednesday whether or not you count the days from first to last or from last to first; the destruction of the trumpets corresponding to the reverse order as compared to the Genesis seven days of creation; both the Genesis creation fourth day and the Trumpets' fourth day deal with the exact same object, namely, the sun, moon and stars. Other details can be given, but basically what is happening is that the three days preceding total collapse are approaching, and they are supposed to be fraught with wars and strange evils. The Revelation narrative is sufficient for one to interpret these events as meaning that the World as we know it will never return, and in fact has not been what it was ordinarily for some time. The blessed candles ("candele benedette") affording illumination during the three days of darkness, reffered to by Taigi, are the Benedictine monks from Rochester, the Dimond Brothers, who are the two witnesses of Revelation 11, the two olive trees and the two candlesticks during the darkness.]
Check out the youtube video "Quick proof Michael Lofton is a hypnotist spin doctor"
I remember watching this. Great debate filled with good questions from Michael during cross exam.
According to more than one source (i.e. Malachi Martin and Friar Michel de la Sainte Trinité) the Third Secret of Fatima (not released to the public) is about The Book of Revelation chapters 8 to 13. These talk partly about the seven destructive angelic trumpets that signify the collapse of religion, particularly the phenomenon of the Post-Vatican II Council new religion, that as of late is associated with LGBT "masses" and an underground gay lifestyle subculture admitted by several of its hierarchical figures (e.g. "Bishop" Morlino from Wisconsin). Sister Lucia of Fatima (see her Interview with Father Fuentes in 1957), who wrote the Third Secret, said the Third Secret was concerned with a punishment associated with Russia to be put in effect by 1960. Thus the Vatican II new religion is the crumbling object the seven angelic trumpets of Revelation continually destroy. And the proof the Vatican II religion means the Russian tiara substituting the papal tiara, is that Olavo de Carvalho (Brazilian philosopher interviewed by Nyquist a few times) himself noted, in a public talk (in reference to a book he was reading), that the Soviet spies present in the Vatican II Council reported there was nothing for them to do in there, the very ordinary participants of the council were doing the spies' job for them in ravaging religion. Of course the effects of the council were tragic, even according to some post-conciliar commentators and nonCatholics alike; the statistics and other qualitative details speak for themselves. The last three trumpets sounded by the last three angels are the famous Three Days of Darkness [that are not literal days] foretold by Blessed Anna Maria Taigi in the 19th century, other similar predictions having been made by people of repute among Catholics since then. These three days of darkness, according to Anna Maria Taigi, are to do with spiritual punishments coming from heaven, but also with temporal punishments coming from earth in the form of wars and revolutions. The Ukraine War signals the coming of these three days of darkness (which are not literal days, by the way, this being a symbolism); and the timing perfectly matches the Revelation chapters, for the three last trumpets begin after the fourth trumpet obscured a third of the sun, moon and stars. The obscuring of a third part is a symbol for a gradual process, for duality means gestation, thus getting rid of the third part means a progressive effect; and that the obscuring is to gradually take hold, until it reaches a momentum (three days of darkness or last three trumpets). This fourth trumpet that obscures sun, moon and stars, means the obscuring or waning of the secular signs of religious authority; the loss of credibility of religious authorities, especially within the Post-Vatican II religion, having reached an unprecedented accumulation, as is well known. And to prove the three last trumpets stand for three days, all you have to do is take into consideration that just as the fourth day of the week is Wednesday whether or not you count the days from first to last or from last to first; the destruction of the trumpets corresponding to the reverse order as compared to the Genesis seven days of creation; both the Genesis creation fourth day and the Trumpets' fourth day deal with the exact same object, namely, the sun, moon and stars. Other details can be given, but basically what is happening is that the three days preceding total collapse are approaching, and they are supposed to be fraught with wars and strange evils. The Revelation narrative is sufficient for one to interpret these events as meaning that the World as we know it will never return, and in fact has not been what it was ordinarily for some time. The blessed candles ("candele benedette") affording illumination during the three days of darkness, reffered to by Taigi, are the Benedictine monks from Rochester, the Dimond Brothers, who are the two witnesses of Revelation 11, the two olive trees and the two candlesticks during the darkness.]
Check out the youtube video "Quick proof Michael Lofton is a hypnotist spin doctor"
@@imobplushighbrow 😂 dimond brother fanboy..😂
@@blackwood3243Most of the channel has demonstrably valuable information. You are a scandalized individual for saying this.
@@blackwood3243 It was given to me, and to no one else, to interpret the bible and find out a lofty truth, that the vinegar Jesus drank in the Crucifixion was turned to wine miraculously, and this is a sufficient rhetoric sign from heaven that I am a prophet. You are cornered into making the case that the argumentation/evidence-giving I made in favour of the vinegar having turned into wine, is simply ridiculous and manifestly untrue; or insufficient, rhetorically speaking, to impress. That is your position, or at least your probable position. In other words, your position is the case for the vinegar having become wine is ridiculous. Some of the parallelisms that support this claim, that the vinegar was turned to wine miraculously, are that 1) in both the Wedding in Cana and in the Crucifixion ´[in John's Gospel] Mary is called "woman" by Christ; 2) in both reference is made to an "hour" in a mysterious way, ("my hour has not yet come" / "and from that hour he took her to himself"), 3) the vessels containing the ritual purification water are parallel with the hyssop (aromatic plant used in purification rituals in Judaism which was consumed by Christ together with the vinegar). An honest person who went through the arguments (the latter being the tip of the iceberg) can see my thesis is overwhelmingly true. And you are denying something that can be demonstrated exclusively because; if I am proven right (and there is plenty more evidence whence the argumentation came) it would mean I was given a lofty surprising truth basically no Catholic or purported Christian likely ever knew. Your reaction, thus, exemplifies human nature imprisoned in the cell of the "safe haven of ordinary life", nothing challenging this illusion, even if mathematically demonstrated, has the right to exist. Is it not true that you conflate the expectations of ordinary life with truth, and nothing challenging this outlook is likely to be accepted by you? You know it is true. Given that, shouldn't I, rather, feel sorry for you?
@@blackwood3243 First of all, if this is what you really think, that I have a mental disorder, why take the challenging and at least slightly excited confrontational tone you are using? I read an etiquette manual once which, for example, pointed out it is reputable and ok to agree outwardly with someone irritated (even though you don't really agree with this someone), because the person is in a condition which is out of their usual self like (analogically) a crazy person, and therefore you're not unequivocally addressing the person when you address the person in this state. So, if I am mentally ill, as you say, why insist repeatedly [as you do] I am wrong and you feel sorry for me and I am literally mentally ill etc. (things that would disturb and be doubtfully helpful to address to someone mentally ill)?
Besides, it is to me highly probable you are very inferior to me in terms of learning and familiarity with precisely the disciplines that would allow one to argue and engage in a debate (rhetoric, Aristotelian logic, etiquette, epistemology etc.); and most of the discomfort and objection your words imply has to do with my using a language that is unconventional to you. If you read Edmund Husserl's The Crisis of European Sciences and Transcendental Phenomenology (Northwestern University Press) you'd probably think the author is crazy or unintelligible at best, because you would be out of your depth.
What I said stands; there is biblical sufficient and even overwhelming evidence the vinegar Jesus drank during the Crucifixion was turned to wine miraculously, because the vinegar passage in many ways is demonstrably a call back to the Wedding in Cana passage, in which the worse wine of the last hour is turned to good wine from the beginning. Were you to examine the full passage from my published and available book (Commentary on the Secret of La Salette) discussing this topic, it isn't likely you'd be able to raise any meaningful objection to this thesis. Examining the thesis in itself, regardless of what quality you atribute to me personally, would be unthinkable to you (so it seems), and this proves the point you are all about convention to the detrimento of truth, you are about trusting there is nothing outside the realm of "ordinary life" with the right to exist. Seemingly, this is a fact.
Thanks for re-streaming! Definitely had not seen this before
This was incredible to watch and to listen. Although I agree with the Christian perspective here, I thought Dr. Ally did an amazing job challenging us to think more deeply and lucidly of the Faith. In particular, his ten-minute closing remarks were so keen: like a paring knife. Very impressive. Thank you Mr. Lofton for airing this on TH-cam for the world to see.
Just came across this excellent debate. Well argued throughout, Michael. I have to say that I find myself having much more in common with people of faith (even one not my own) than with affluent Western secularists. I'm a Catholic, but impressed by the clarity and obvious good will of Dr. Ally.
Excellent debate. You were both so charitable to each other too. So lovely to see!
Thanks for commenting!
I for one really appreciate this.. I have had issues with neighbours taking drugs and partying every night for the last 3 years so when I watched I was unable to have subtitles on.. Now I can revisit a debate I only caught half of and although my issue is still ongoing I can watch and pay attention and still record to provide recordings to multiple groups such as police, support worker, social worker, safeguarding team and solicitors/lawyer without any sound interference in the recordings.. Thnx so much sir..
We all get trials hence why I've not gone mad and acted.. I will stay just and within the law regardless but being patient as a Saint has helped me see, things I missed may come back around but things I must do and act upon it suits me better that I act accordingly and not so much by the governments laws but by God laws.. They seem to align nicely but given that I had not followed God and Christ and the Holy Ghost then I may have been able to take legal action sooner.. But since I did all the previous reports and evidence is now compiled and will make things so much easier for me in the following month's.. Like.. Sure I wish the harassment stopped sooner but I gave in the tens of chances over years and now it is not even in my hands.. Apparently if you're disabled/autistic it's not only a discrimination but also a hate crime when people call you spacxa.. I didn't know but after so long safeguarding and a solicitor have seen and heard the recordings and apparently it's bad.. Maybe now something will be done and all praise be unto God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost/Spirit.. I knew trying to be nice to those who would bully me and persecute me would pay off.. Given chance I'd gladly be thrown to the lions now knowing the correct course of action to follow.. I would still like to see justice upon those who persecuted me but
"vengeance is the Lords"
As the good book/the word days..
👍❤️👍
Like literally even when they bullied me and said "you're gonna die you fxxkin bxstxrd" which I got recorded while I was walking my dog.. R.i.P my little spaniel Charlie you're missed dearly and greatly.. I just sped up and walked on.. But recorded what was said and that's now usable in court too.. Like.. I don't want them evicted or imprisoned I just want them to understand that they can't do this.. Like.. I don't cause trouble so trouble should not come to me, and I understand that people have told me the people who stsrt trouble never want trouble and that's why I have legal representatives from multiple sources.. I don't want to have to make those decisions because if I decided let's not do anything then I'm in fact giving them the ability to effect others negatively for possibly 2 to 3 years like they done with me before the police can act.. I still feel bad even though its not in my hands and its not like I'm tattlimg on them for doing drugs and stuff I'm only wanting them to leave me alone.. Its other people reviewing the footage that I'm too distressed to go back through that are doing this.. I still feel bad and I hope they learn to be nicer and not nasty but I honestly don't know how it's going to go now with other people taking over the case.. To be honest I'm kinda scared because I don't know what's to come or how it works and I just pray God and Christ with the Holy Ghost/Spirit guides me and helps me because I am scared and unsure.. Only other time in my life I been asked things or spoke to the police it was nothing to do with me and I told everything I seen.. Turns out it was a drug dealers breaking one guys windows and trying to attack him because they had the wrong house.. I got threatened but still went to court to speak and uhmm.. Probably should stop.. I know the Internet had a lot of nasty bad people who don't have good, just, or real morals and this could make me a target.. I don't really care.. The Lord is my shephard, my staff and my stave.. By his iron rod and his righteousness I would be ruled and be happy.. Given just or unjust I will take the persecution so long as I be found loving and with our Lord and saviour not offending him..
Completely agree with the synonym part. Deity/Divinity=God. Many people automatically assume we mean Jesus is the Father in saying Jesus is God.
JEsus Christ have mercy on us.
Michael, may God bless and keep you!
My message for all Muslim all around the world is it's okay to believe the Divinity of Christ from the book you think is not the word of God
The Quran accepts the New Testament, so this is a problem for Muslims.
@@ReasonandTheology yes I know and also there biblical interpretation is just hilarious
@@ReasonandTheology and they're final Prophets claim our Bible is exist at the time of his lifetime is the true Uncorrupted true word of God and when I see those texts from the Islamic Source I see he was just a confused man
@@ReasonandTheology It accepts an "uncorrupted" gospel known as the "injil". They believe the new testament we have today is corrupted.
@@ReasonandTheology old testament is 50-50..its almost like between those time periods a person(cough cough mohammed cough) picked and chosen what they should belive and dshouldnt for the old testament and included a few characters who I refer to characters as they can't be historically verified by second or third party sources.. At least jesus wasn't denied by all, he's known even by those who condemned him,,, pontius pilate, juda escargot, even that apostle who was forgiven saying "even you will deny me three times before the midnight" or accurate as I recall that was our Lord and saviours words..
What is this glorious surprise?
@ReasonandTheologi Hi, I'm from Indonesia. Very nice and respectful debate between you and Dr Shabir, I really enjoyed it.
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I'm wondering, after watching some debates videos between Christian and Muslim on this Trinity topic, I found out that many Christian are limiting their defense only using their own interpretation of the scripture or scholar commentary on certain verses. Almost none of the Christian debaters are using the views from the early Church Tradition (Holly Apostolic Tradition) and early Church Fathers about Trinity. Because if we only use the verses from the Bible, in the end, it will all come down to how you interpret those verses. Because you can't read the Bible in the light of your own interpretation. It must he read in the light of Church Tradition (The pillar of Truth), the authority that recognized the Words of Father within the scriptures.
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Another thing is that the Bible is full of "contradiction" and ambiguity for those who read it outside the light of Church Tradition. So, debating using human interpretation at the end will result in nothing. There will always be verses that support Trinity and verses that somewhat contradict Trinity. Same as for other topic/doctrines, for example the power to forgive sins, Jesus divinity, etc
.
So my question is, why didn't you use more argument from early Church Tradition and Church Fathers?
thanks for Michael he kind of made me change my religion and accept islam.
So i thank him for that.
Great job Michael, held your own against a very seasoned apologist.
Question from another topic, do you have a link for reading Epistola Tua from Pope Leo? Thank you, I can't find it.
It’s always constructive to have such interactions, I even find this more intellectually honest than when “Bible-Alone” Christians debate Catholics…However, I don’t know how to put this : engaging a Muslim on the interpretation of the Bible is weird, they bring a direct face value to writings which is something “Bible-Alone” Christianity has adopted in the essence and origins of “Sola-scriptura” and we know where it took us…! First of all the disciples where writing to specific peoples with specific writings and traditions so they will use words, analogies, and traditions (even unwritten ones) assuming the readers know them…Second: the New Testament is written to this Jews in typology to show how Jesus was the one the entire Old Testament was predicting and foreshadowing, thus bringing the fulfillment of all the old covenant prophecies ! In that logic such a debate with a Muslim is pointless…For them, the Word of God is at face value ! A better approach is to debate on the objectives justifications of both “the Bible vs the Coran” !
Nevertheless, this is always constructive and a good step !
They have to read is at face-value or literally to support the position that Jesus is not God and affirm the concept of Tahwid (God being totally separate from man) To associate anyone with God is a Shirk (grave Sin) known as associationism.
All that I'm getting from this is that Shabir doesn't understand the doctrine of the Trinity. He should read the Summa Theologica; Aquinas covers this topic pretty well I think.
1 thing I must say, when Shabir says that Jesus should’ve just made clear he was God by saying he is God, this ruins his position. First Shabir asserts that the word “God and Divinity” is vague, since there are Judges in the book of Samuel who were referred to as gods. Therefor, the Christian and Michael’s position must be correct. This is due to the fact that it must be then that Jesus must use words that aren’t as vague as God, which is the whole “before Abraham was, I AM”. This lessens the confusion then, and thus Shabir’s critique of Michael at the end is rendered as a contradiction.
Furthermore, Shabir says that Jesus is referred to as Lord in the apostolic creed , therefore he can’t be God. This is further from the truth , for the Word Lord is literally used to describe God the Father. Therefore the apostles looked at Jesus as God.
Now I must say that Shabir definitely did well in this debate, in fact, he’s the only Muslim apologist that I have an immense respect for. His charity is good and his arguments are well. So here are some parts that I think is a highlight for Shabir
His argument from the subordinate nature of Jesus was good. Of course it’s a question that brings the Christians in a tough position, but Lofton’s response was true. But still props to Ally.
Next he argues against the God nature of Jesus because of YahWeh, I thought it was a good argument because he proceeds to show problems when Lofton affirms that the 3 Godheads are YahWeh.
Finally, Shabir’s arguments when it was showed that Paul and the Gospel of John says Jesus has an “ultimate” God was a good argument. Though it was an assertion, he did provide an argument where Jesus is the “intermediate God”. Thus I thought he did well.
I like comparing
ISAIAH 42:10 about “YHWH sharing Glory with no other”
to
John 17:5
Then
Rev 5:13
May I have your thoughts?
@@ASA_1347 i will say that John makes a good case for Christ’s divinity, but As for Isaiah and Revelation, i peeked Isaiah, it seemed to me to be very general in KJV and NIV, where the word Lord is used. Forgive my lack of exegesis knowledge here though as I’m quite inexperienced with Biblical Literary. Nonetheless what u have listed is very interesting for Christ Divinity
Bit late to the party here haha. In any case, great debate. While I’d have to say that Michael won, Dr. Ally did a great job making us Christians think critically about the New Testament. Excellent job keeping things civil and calm. Respect to both gentleman.
God bless you Michael & Have a blessed Happy Thanksgiving 🦃🙏🙏🛐💯 Catholic 🗝️🗝️ God bless all & I love R&T keep up the good work!🙏🛐🗝️🗝️
Okay, the reference to Trump made me look at when this was originally recorded! At first I thought, "Man, this Canadian is behind the times!" 😅
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades
Seems like Michael took on a bigger task than was necessary by setting out to prove Jesus' divinity, rather than sticking with the topic "Does the NT affirm Jesus' divinity?" .... I think he did a good job of both but the issue of NT authorship and the dating of the Gospels is entirely irrelevant.
2:26:55
Philip *said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.
John 14:8-10 NASB1995
is not the eyes that are blind, but the heart.Quran, Surah Al-Hajj (22:46),
“Look, he is coming with the clouds,”[b]
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”[c]
So shall it be! Amen.
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Shabir made a lot more sense in his closing statement. I has doubts about turning to Islam, but now for sure with this debate I have no doubt the Qurán is the truth from Allāh and prophet Muhammad is a messenger of Allāh and Jesus is also a messenger of Allāh.
Shabir interpreted the scriptures like Jehovah Witnesses aka Arians do. Neither are Christians and neither are guided by the Holy Spirit.
Welcome to Islam! If you haven’t done your Shahada, go to the mosque so you can declare it publicly so other Muslims know you are Muslim. And it’s good to connect with practicing Muslims so that you have support. May God bless you!
Do you think Muhammad was a good man?
@@declansceltic198 I copy and pasted the list, but you can take out the ones that have to deal with the prophet (pbuh) himself because it does not apply today.
35 quotes from Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the last messenger of God. He is the best of creation, he is a role model on how to be of exemplary character, kindness, compassion, mercy, gratitude, thankfulness, abundance, courage, fearlessness, self-reflection, and an unwavering belief in his mission. May these Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) Quotes have a profound impact on you to be the best that you can possibly be.
Do not judge people based on what the media portrays them to be. Do your own research and find out what makes this man the finest of men to have graced the earth.
1. “Be kind, for whenever kindness becomes part of something, it beautifies it. Whenever it is taken from something, it leaves it tarnished.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
2. “The best among you is the one who doesn’t harm others with his tongue and hands.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
3. “A good man treats women with honour.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
4. “The greatest of richness is the richness of the soul.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
5. “There is reward for kindness to every living thing.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
6. “Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
7. “The greatest jihad (struggle/striving) is to battle your own soul, to fight the evil within yourself.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
8. “The strongest among you is the one who controls his anger.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
9. “God does not look at your forms and possessions but he looks at your hearts and your deeds.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
10. “Riches are not from an abundance of worldly good but from a contented mind.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
11. “Exchange gifts, you will love one another.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
12. “The best among you are those who have the best manners and character.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
13. “No two things have been combined better than knowledge and patience.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
14. “Tell people of glad tidings and do not push them away.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
15. “The best of houses is the house where an orphan gets love and kindness.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
16. “The believer does not slander, curse, or speak in an obscene or foul manner.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
17. “A kind word is a form of charity.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
18. “A father gives nothing better than good education.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
19. “Feed the hungry and visit a sick person, and free the captive, if he be unjustly confined. Assist any person oppressed whether Muslim or non-Muslim.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
20. “Seek knowledge from cradle to the grave.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
21. “Do not waste water even if you were at a running stream.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
22. “A white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good actions.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
23. “When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart give it up.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
24. “You do not do evil to those who do evil to you, but you deal with them with forgiveness and kindness.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
25. “He is not a true believer who eats his fill while his neighbour is hungry.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
26. “However much the faith of a man increases, his regard for women increases.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
27. “What has reached you was never meant to miss you, and what has missed you was never meant to reach you.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
28. “When you see a person who has been given more than you in money and beauty. Look to those, who have been given less.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
29. “Speak good or remain silent.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
30. “Make things easy for people and not difficult. Give people good news and bring them joy, and do not turn them away.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
31. “Remember your own faults when you want to mention of others.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
32. “Those who are patient in adversity and forgive wrongs are the doers of excellence.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
33. “Modesty brings nothing except good.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
34. “The most perfect man in his faith among the believers is the one whose behaviour is most excellent, and the best of you are those who are the best to their wives.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
35. Happy is the man who avoids hardship, but how fine is the man who is afflicted and shows endurance.” Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
@@mistert8775 "There came a slave and pledged allegiance to Allah's Apostle on migration; he (the Holy Prophet) did not know that he was a slave.
Then there came his master and demanded him back, whereupon Allah's Apostle said: Sell him to me.
And he bought him for two black slaves, and he did not afterwards take allegiance from anyone until he had asked him whether he was a slave (or a free man)"
Muhammad owned slaves. Jesus lived and died as a slave.
That's the difference between who you follow and who I follow.
As a Christian I think these debates are very important because I feel that many Muslims do not understand Christian theology and in particular about The Trinity and Jesus Incarnation.
I have seen tons of Dr Ally's debates (with eg James White) and hes one of the best Muslim debates.
They don’t want to understand. Shabir Ally is indeed the most sincere, but he is not like most muslims apologists. Hee is also one of few muslim apologists that believes in evolution, idk he is a bit different. But like Muhammed Hijab said: “Jesus can’t be all-powerful and not all-powerful at the same time” Seriously, it so lazy. He would only be true if we said that Christ has one nature and 1 because 1 nature and 1 mind can not generate both all-knowledge and yet not all-knowledge. But Christians literally believe Christ has 2 natures and 2 minds, so one mind generates all-knowledge and the other knows not all knowledge. There is nothing Philosophically to debunk this
The square circle argument highlights a clear contradiction, I don’t think it’s lazy
@@Ntwadumela266 If it was a "clear contradiction" you wouldn't need to debate, you could just point it out.
Trinity does not make sense.
Jesus never ever teach trinity.
And I align more with the mosaic law or tawhid…
@@katyana92 The Bible is the word of God, and the Bible teaches the Trinity!
Hey Mr lofton can I ask you to make a response to this person name orthodox shahada he just made a community post which I think is a stray man or a caricature of our Catholic faith thank you
Without explaining the concept of the Trinity, before anything else, it makes no sense explaining why Jesus is God, to a muslim.
Great debate. Fr Hilarion Heagy probably converted to Islam after watching it and realizing how incoherent is Christianity.
Thanks for your comment.
Im so glad i have reverted to Islam from christianity. Allah is great and one
Although I doubt he will accept, debate the same topic with Bart Ehrmen. He seems to only be on shows where the host agrees with him. He believes neither Jesus nor His early disciples thought He was God.
I’ve had Ehrman on before
@@ReasonandTheology I just saw one of your videos with Ehrman in it. Here is the interview with him that was put up on YT two days ago as of this writing in which he states he does not believe in God and that Jesus disciples did not believe he was God th-cam.com/video/njXCAc63rkc/w-d-xo.html
@@Monkofmagnesia Ehrman is a well known agnostic.
God has sent 124000 messengers for the guidance of humanity. The 1st was Adam and the last was Muhammad. All of these were Prophets and many of them had great miracles. Jesus (The Essa A.S) was a mightiest messenger of God, the people for who's guidance he was sent took him for God.
"God has sent 124,000 messengers".
That's clearly not in the Quran, so is it from your Hadith collections? The ones your fellow Shia Muslims reject as false?
I feel Dr.Shabir has been talking (too much) with Arius ^^
shariba Ally, when u visited my country, Sierra Leone 🇸🇱 ❤️ we love you and favor Allah ❤️
The first roadblock here is that Shabbir is not Trinitarian.
Good job Michael. God speaks in you
Thank you
@@ReasonandTheology since you replied on my comment I would like to say a couple of things: First God incarnated for a reason. Not to do miracles. Not show us who He is but to save us. If He showed us his complete glory then why he incarnated? Then also no one would seek to sacrifice him. All His plan would be changed to meet our desires not His. We then will not be saved. The second thing is very important. Our faith in Jesus doesn't rely on books but on Jesus and extended from the disciples. So we are the ones who know the meaning of the gospel and we do not get the meaning of our faith from the words of the gospel simply because not everything can be written nor witnessed by human nor recorded by cameras . Blessings
@@ReasonandTheology By the way, your news about Hilarion Heggie went viral in the Arabic Social Media and news. They made him a very important figure in the Catholic Church. Some people get their faith from news.
@@Shmfdssakh where did it go viral? Got a link?
@@ReasonandTheology just search for his new name in arabic سعيد عبد اللطيف then you will find this th-cam.com/users/results?search_query=%D8%B3%D8%B9%D9%8A%D8%AF+%D8%B9%D8%A8%D8%AF%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%81 BBC Arabic talked about it th-cam.com/video/vDwQ6IiGRl4/w-d-xo.html
Good discussion I fully agree with Dr Shabir but excellent debate i hope to see more healthy discussion
In the Qoran it says that Jesus was born of a Virgin. How then can he be compared to any other man? They also say that He is Roh allah and kalimat allah , meaning the spirit and word of God. When you confront them with that they beat around the bush and say that it means word and spirit FROM allah. But that is not what is written.
Very interessting about the detail that Isa is refered to as WORD and SPIRIT of GOD.
However there are a lot of differences which show that Isa can't be JESUS CHRIST because
Isa
- is not the son of GOD
- didn't die on the cross but was exchanged for Judas
- did not ressuract
The only logic and theologic conclusion is Isa is not JESUS CHRIST because
+ JESUS CHRIST is the son of GOD
+ JESUS CHRIST died on the cross as GOD's perfect lamb
+ JESUS CHRIST ressuracted on the 3rd day
It is simply a perversion of gospel and therefore needs to be adressed as such.
Gal 1;7-9
But there are some who are disturbing you and wish to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach [to you] a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed!
9
As we have said before, and now I say again, if anyone preaches to you a gospel other than the one that you received, let that one be accursed!
@@igor.michael do you know about the Christian Prince aka Arab Prince? He destroys any legitimity of that last book, religion and messenger. So many mistakes and contradictions in a supposedly book revealed by God: Mary Mother of Jesus is confused with Miriam sister of Moses and Aaron, semen coming from women, "verses revealed" to make himself obeyed by his wives, or after his friend suggested something (example the verse about veiling, etc... It s a sham religion, sadly. So it couldn t be right about Jesus son of God.
@@Joliebebe2001 I know who he is, but my main problem with Christian Prince seems to be uncharitable in his approach at times I understand his aggression in some circumstances other times it is unwarranted.
@@vaderkurt7848 yeah he is very aggressive, specially when the caller is disrespectful. That prevented me from sharing his videos to my muslim friends and relatives. Which is sad. I still listened to him to understand that religion that he knows extremely well. Him and David Wood.
@@igor.michael yes I totally agree with you but that is the proof that (the whole Qoran) is a miss mash of stories that do not connect and make no sense. The name ISA was never mentioned in the Scriptures.
They take perverted parts out of the Old Testament and perverted parts of the New Testament. Add all kinds of untruths and make one mixed up story .
What I would like to be used in a discussion with muslims , are those parts which I mentioned when we try to describe the Trinity to them , by using their own words. They are taught that Mary was a Virgin and that the child was Roh Allah and Kalimat Allah. They are indicating that Jesus is the Word and the Spirit of God . which is exactly the Trinity! Then they say we believe in 3 gods. I can give more details about that on how they then distort their own words when you point to that. This platform is too limited to go into every detail. The Trinity is ONE GOD , not 3 gods as they say. This ONE God is the Father, The Son (the WORD ) and the Holy Spirit (spirit of God).
Obviously they only post to the human nature of Jesus and obviously a human being cannot be God. I totally agree with them! The WORD incarnated into the Flesh etc. etc. has to be specified. The fact that He Resurrected is not mentioned. They do speak of resurrection at the end times (like us) but also have no idea of what they are talking about. Personally, but I am not a professional Bible scholar or a professional speaker or anything else of that sort, personally I would NEVER start a discussion with a muslim about Christianity BEFORE I discuss the Trinity. Before the TRINITY we have to discuss how all the prophecies in the Old Testament are fulfilled in the NEW. They don't want to accept that, then no continuation of the talk. Without the Trinity , then the whole discussion will fail. All the other details which we might present to them will mean exactly NOTHING to them.
After listening to too many debates and reading the history of Christianity I became convinced that Christianity is nothing but a strange mix of ancient mythologies .
And what is Islam?
@@declansceltic198 christianty is idolatry
A strange mix of mythologies? What is Islam then? Islam has apocryphal scripture, Talmudic lessons, Jewish legends and pagan customs all bundled together as the supposed word of God. People made fun of Mohammed's stupidity! If it wasn't for his brutality and power during his years as head of the military and for the law of killing of apostates, Islam would have NEVER spread/survived. Also if the authors of the New Testament knew they were just pranking everybody by retelling old myths, why did they endure persecution? Why did the Gospels spread so far so fast if it was just another fairytale? The Disciples literally gave their life for their belief in Jesus, nobody would ever do that for a work of fiction.
You might have a fun time looking at Trent horns video talking about this very topic. Might be a bit enlightening
Easy...Christainity 2.0..@declansutherland8526
First
Yes you were..
God bless you and your loved ones man..👍❤️👍
I hope you not have just a good day but many good and happy, fruitful years ahead of you.. For you and everyone of your bloodline..🙏
@@matthewhall7976 ghee, thanks man. Really needed this. Been having a rough couple of years. God bless you too brother.
@@biscuitcake5894 tell me about it or don't.. If you see my other comment you'll understand.. We are all trialled and put under duress.. Hold strong like I have.. In recent years I lost my favourite aunty, my favourite brother, my favourite cousin and my dog Charlie.. I understand that we are tried.. We have to prove that we can keep going through all tribulations and we are sti here.. To make it clear I have a huge family, 20+cousins 10+immediate family and like 6 aunties and uncles.. I feel weak for using favouritism but also it made me look wider then that.. No matter what we are part of a whole and at the same time we are individuals from that whe.. Our father has a plan and we don't understand it.. Slowly it plays out and at some point we feel lost and forgotten but on the times we feel and know we are not.. They are the moments we have to hold on too.. I am almost at the age of christ when he was crucified so I may be a little more personally involved in my own mind but I believe we all experience these things.. At different times or ages.. You may well be further ahead of me and just needing of reassuring at this point I cannot say.. I'm not a sage or prophet I just know what I know and I know you deserve blessings and so do your family and in my instances I believe I don't suffer like some of my kinfolk and they deserve more blessings then me.. Ultimately we all need God, Christ and the Holy ghost/spirit on our side everyday.. Some days more then others.. Maybe not tomorrow or the day after but I will pray right now(or God strike me down dead please) that you find a day or more coming that strengthen you and give you resolve and what else you need.. Or an idea of a path you can take to what you need(I say it like this because I don't like to say things like the fake protestant evangelical born again, had a bath type Christian's) but as a brother under christ who knows hardships and deals with death daily(I dispose of corpses most days).. So you can know, sometimes we cause issue, sometimes we clean up.. At the end of days it is determined by our hearts, minds and where we stand..👍
thank you. God bought me in Islam
No he didn't. Satan brought you to Islam.
Well done Michael Lofton! Im sorry but its always so painful for me to listen to Muslims assert what our ancient holy scriptures say & mean, its just imposed scriptorture, just like others that misrep the faith, they all have this in common. Maybe I will read the Quran & tell them what it says, & just because one is a Muslim scholar it by no means makes them a biblical Christian scholar, they don't know Him in whom is hidden all the treasures of wisdom & knowledge, the light that enlightens all men, full of grace & truth, who upholds all things by the word of His power, in Him all things consist, Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, the Son of Man that came up on the clouds of heaven to the Ancient of Days, all glory, honor, might, dominion, & majesty, to Him on the throne & the Lamb, The Good Shepherd, I AM. There is no logical rational way I could read the New Test nm the entirety of scripture & not conclude that Christ Jesus is Divine, this is why He was crucified. The Father does the works thru Him as the power of God was w/ Him & His humanity as He emptied Himself. The Father & Son are both attributed to raising Him from the dead. He was sent from heaven, born of the blessed Virgin Mary by the power of the Holy Spirit, which should shut many arguments down & even in Johns Gospel, all who came to arrest Him fell back when He said I AM He, He could call on legions of Angels. The thing which is overlooked by many, is, would those whom hold a heterodox view of Christ being only human but claim to be believers, worship 2 beings, Christ & God? This is never addressed, grace & peace to like minded believers in the Son of God
Wow, all pathetic assumptions, it's a pity Christian's don't believe what Jesus said, that would make your message real clear and not so double minded. Cheers, Plastic Maori
@@mrsmarsh6619 lol pathetic assumptions or from holy scripture smarty pants? Cheers Mrs
I admire Dr Shamir Ally courage he has constantly point out the obscurity in front of Christians. What it comes down to from what I realized from his debate with Jay smith and others is effort. Christians like the complacency offered and the idea that their sins are paid for whereas Islam you’re responsible for your sins and there’s prayer and fasting and the discipline. Just like in college people tend to go for easier fields same thing applies. If the book you based your salvation is not clear and it’s doctrine is not explicit naturally one should have many questions and doubts. naturally
Jesus is both God, the Son & man.
Thanks for commenting!
John 17:3: And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. " Jesus says that there is only one true God and he was sent by that one TRUE GOD.
Jesus was a prophet sent by GOD. He only followed GOD's command.
can you imagine god thirsty or hungry asks his mom for food or milk ? it doesn’t make sense man.
@Ave Crux Spes Unica why god should be humble and he is the beginning and the end ? he is the owner of everything, this contradicts with being independent or perfect all time , have you heard about Egyptian mythology , the conception of horus the son of Isis and Osiris is familiar in the ancient egyptian civilization
@Ave Crux Spes Unica i mean that christianity is corrupted from myths in ancient Egypt
This is what the Lord says-
Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty:
I am the first and I am the last;
apart from me there is no God.
Since Dr Ally is so hung up on Jesus humanity not knowing the final hour, you should have asked him which side of the flys wing ( left or right) carries disease and which carries the cure. That always confuses me whenever I run out of theraflu.
So did he answer if Jesus knew last hour? Didn't hear it
@@mrsmarsh6619 Christ divine nature knows, while his human nature doesn’t. I know that sounds insane but it’s a mystery no one can comprehend. Even the souls who are in heaven don’t know the hour, of course since their united with God in the beatific vision (by will not by nature) they’d never ask such things of God.
@@gamers7800 Any answer that starts with 'I know that sounds insane' immediately raises a red flag?? I do know for sure God the Father knows the last hour because the Father is ALL KNOWING.
@@mrsmarsh6619 True, God know all things and Christ is the second person of the Holy Trinity, consubstantial with the father and the Holy Ghost. No one can Comprehend the inner life of the Trinity. As Virgil says to Dante who is confused at something’s he sees in the inferno “look and pass on.” These things will remain a mystery no matter how hard we ponder them.
@@gamers7800 True, God the Father is the only one who knows the last hour; No mention of trinity here??? Virgil and Dante quotes? Surely you're eternal salvation doesn't need philosopher's remarks to verify it?? What about your bible? That will be good. P.M cheers
Is there doubt of Father's deity,of course no but for the Jesus's deity there are many debates
Well, first of all, to specify terms, Jesus could be "divine" but subordinate to YHWH, God the Father. Certainly, "The word was with God and the word was divine" as the Orthodox study Bible renders it, says that Jesus was divine, but not necessarily the same person, or participating in the same person, as YHWH.
any particular scripture claims to be divinely inspired by God. Reading & understanding its content makes it obvious which is divinely inspired, and which is not. It doesn't benefit us to vainly defend the religion we were born into if we discover that it cannot be from God. The Trinity was just a vain attempt to describe the nature of God who is literally indescribable. God does not become lesser if Christ is symbolically at God's right hand. (1 Peter 3:22, Acts 7:55-56, Heb 1:3, 12:2)
Trinity does not make any sense.
Tawkhid is most aligned with the first and second commendment.
I can’t Process with christiany. No logic at all 🤦🏾♀️
this is an old heresy ,nestorian heresy,also the Arian heresy dealt w these issues,look up" early church fathers"
MICHAEL, IN THE DIVINE NATURE ONLY EXIST TREE ENTITIES OR PERSONS BUT THAT DIVINE NATURE IS WHAT WE CALL GOD. IN THAT WAY WE KNOW THAT THE TREE DIVINITY PERSONS ARE EQUALLY DIVINE BUT ONE GOD IN NATURE
Modern day science has proven Jesus is God. Shroud of Turin and Eucharistic Miracles, just to start.
Thanks for watching!
Jesus never ever claimed to be divine himself. Instead, he prayed to one true GOD and followed GOD's command.
John 17:3: And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. " Jesus says that there is only one true God and he was sent by that one TRUE GOD.
- - - - - - -- - -- - -- - - - - - -
Jesus said that the true worshippers would be worshipping the Father...not himself. ( John 4: 23, 24 )
@@14-Peaksactually he did and many of his followers praised him and called him Lord knowing his divinity. Also science proves Jesus is god.
@@MagnumLapua338 if followers praise and call someone Lord, it does not make anyone divine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DO YOU KNOW WHAT DID JESUS HIMSELF TEACH??
John 17:3: And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. "
Jesus says that there is only one true God and he was sent by that one TRUE GOD.
Mark 10:18 ““Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.”
Jesus said, “Hear, O Israel the Lord our God is one. ( Mark 12 : 29 - 31 )
JESUS WAS JUST A PROPHET WHO ONLY FOLLOWED GOD's COMMAND.
@@14-Peaks your understanding of the Bible is flawed.
There are two moments in the Gospels in which Jesus appears to downplay Mary’s importance in front of a crowd. One of them, from yesterday’s Gospel reading, is from Matthew 12:46-50. While Jesus is teaching, Mary and others of Jesus’ “brethren” show up and ask to speak to him. “But he replied to the man who told him, ‘Who is my mother, and who are my brethren?’ And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, ‘Here are my mother and my brethren! For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother, and sister, and mother.’” On another instance, recounted in Luke 11:27-28, “a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, ‘Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts that you sucked!’ But he said, ‘Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!’”
So what is going on here? Why does Jesus seem to be taking the opportunity to publicly minimize Mary’s holiness and even her maternity?
The answer is that there’s more here than meets the eye. Think about Luke 18:18-19, in which a ruler refers to Jesus as “Good Teacher,” and he replies, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.” On the surface, Jesus seems to be denying his own divinity and goodness. But on closer inspection, he’s actually doing the opposite. Something similar is happening here: although Jesus at first seems to be knocking Mary down, his actual teaching shows Mary’s importance.
To see why this is, it’s important to remember the context. The first words from the mouth of Jesus in the Gospel of Mark are “the time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent, and believe in the gospel” (Mark 1:15). This theme of Christ’s “kingdom” is recurrent throughout his teaching. Those listening to Jesus would naturally think of King David, the greatest king in Israel’s history. And sure enough, we find Jesus heralded as
“Jesus, Son of David” (Luke 18:38). After all, God had promised David that a descendant of his would “build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever” (2 Sam. 7:13). With Jesus, we find this everlasting kingdom brought into history.
But the thing about an earthly dynasty, even the House of David, is that it’s built upon ties of blood and marriage, not upon the prospective king’s qualifications. And so, although David was a great (but imperfect) ruler, his son and successor “Solomon did what was evil in the sight of the Lord, and did not wholly follow the Lord, as David his father had done” (1 Kings 11:6). The Davidic line goes dramatically downhill from here until you have kings like Ahaz of Judah, who built idols to the pagan Baals and then “burned his sons as an offering” to them, “according to the abominable practices of the nations whom the Lord drove out before the people of Israel” (2 Chron. 28:2-3).
Jesus’ point in both Matthew 11 and Luke 12 isn’t to knock Mary down a peg. It’s to hammer home that, although Jesus is the fulfillment of God’s promise to the House of David, the kingdom of God isn’t going to go the way that Israel and Judah’s royal house went. Membership in this new dynasty is based not upon blood or marriage, but upon faith, so that “to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God” (John 1:12). That’s the point Jesus is making in Matthew 12: we are all invited into Jesus’ family, through faith. Slowly, Jesus’ followers will realize that this “all” includes even Samaritans and Gentiles, and that this new house “shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples” (Isa. 56:7).
But what does this mean about the role of Mary? Think back to Luke 11:27-28. The woman in the crowd was thinking along bloodlines when she cried out, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts that you sucked!” And so Jesus responds, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” In saying that, it might sound as though he were saying, “Mary is not blessed,” but that can’t be right. Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit, had earlier proclaimed, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!” (Luke 1:42). So Mary is blessed as the Mother of God. But the point here is that her blessedness isn’t because of bloodlines. Rather, it’s because of faith, which is why Elizabeth continued, “Blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfilment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.”
And so Mary has a true maternity-not merely along bloodlines, but even more importantly, in faith. Part of what it means to enter the family of Jesus is that Mary becomes our mother, too, even though we’re non-relatives. Hanging upon the cross on Good Friday, “Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, ‘Woman, behold, your son!’ Then he said to the disciple, ‘Behold, your mother!’ And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home” (John 19:26-27). This is more than simply ensuring that Mary has someone to look after her. Jesus is telling Mary to now think of the Beloved Disciple as her son, and for him to think of her as his mother . . . even though John’s biological mother is right there at Calvary (Matt. 27:56). Lest we think this was true only of the Beloved Disciple, and not of all beloved disciples, Revelation 12 depicts the Queen of Heaven as the mother of Jesus (Rev. 12:5) and says that “her offspring” are “those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus” (v. 17).
So it’s true that, in one sense, Jesus is putting Mary “in her place” in Matthew 12 and Luke 11. It just happens that her “place” is as his mother in faith, and as the mother of Christians. “Blessed is she who believed”!
“GOD IS NOT A GOD OF CONFUSION” That’s exactly what the trinity is , CONFUSION
Não! Confusão é afirmar que Cristo é algo como um semideus enquanto se tenta defeNder um MONOTEISMO! Isto que é verdadeiramente confuso.
Alhamdulillah, brother Dr Shabir Ali responded eloquently and references accordingly. Keep my faith stronger to believe one True God.
Even if what he's saying is true, the NT still affirms Jesus as eternal and semi divine, which is not the Quranic understanding.
@@HIMYMTR if what brother shabir said was true than the others cannot be true. The ideology contradict each other.
@@aamanaf2203 You're right! The Quran contradicts the Holy Bible and doesn't affirm that Jesus is God, therefore the Quran is manmade
@@declansceltic198 Bible is man made as many secular confirm this with unknown author with many contradictions.
God does not contradicts but man do mistakes and contradictions made from man.
@@aamanaf2203 You’re willing to type huge essays to explain the apparent contradictions of YOUR holy book, why don’t you extend the same grace to Christians?
All Hail the Son of God, God in flesh, our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
1:33:07
Shabir Ally shot himself in the foot several times, when Jesus quoted Psalms 82 he's calling them the false gods and yet these false gods judge unjustly and they will fall like any other prince these descriptions is the opposite of Jesus , Psalms 58 is very similar . Psalm 45 was a weak shot that was not speaking of David that was speaking of the promised Messiah who will be exalted what the author of Hebrews pointed out. Then Shabir you quote John 14:28 and 17:3 😮. Shabir you are finished... I would destroy you with proof texts because you don't know about Trinitarian theology for real. Muslims don't know Torah or Gospel ...
Jesus was a man from East.....Jhon, Peter, Mark, Paul etc all of these are western names. Non of jesus followers had these name, these are translated name. Jesus and Christ it self are translated names to look them like western name.
St. Paul was Greek...
Of course he'd have a Western name.
Markos, Paulos, Petrus, Jochanan
Tongue twister
Christian guy has to go through mental gymnastics to be able to prove that Jesus is God , Jesus clearly said as the most important command, “oh Israel OUR God is one “
Yes. God is one. Islam goes through mental gymnastics when you read verses about Allah being specially located in places.
@@ReasonandTheology Do you have examples of such?
God alone is enough, whatever name is given human is human
shabir won every point.michael himself is confused
Shabir lost and you are confused.
@@ReasonandTheology The Audience will Judge who won, Not you.
In the beginning was the Son then the Holy spirit the Father??? Well how can Mary the Virgen be the mother of God? When God created everything??? Didn't Isaiah prophecy that a virgen will give birth to Emanuel??? God With Us??? Muslim brothers know something is up here. Just kind of smoke this out and bail out...
The title „mother of God“ doesn't mean she created God. Only that she bore and gave birth to Jesus. Jesus' body was created through Mary but his divine nature is eternal.
Your soul for example was created by God but your body was created through (mostly) your mother. But you don't have trouble still calling her your mother, although not each part of you comes from her.
@@kevinbartolen5881 Mother of God: The Council of Ephesus decreed in 431 that Mary is Theotokos ("God-bearer") because her son Jesus is both God and man: one Divine Person with two natures (divine and human). This name was translated in the West as "Mater Dei" or Mother of God. From this derives the title "Blessed Mother".
@@gustavovilla45 Yes, so what is your issue with this? You don't believe that Jesus is God?
@@kevinbartolen5881 is he God? How can he be created?
@@gustavovilla45 As the Word of God he wasn't created. What happened at the incarnation is that his divine nature joined the flesh from virgin Mary, so he became fully human while still being fully God.
Mary didn't create God, that's not what the title theotokos implies.
Without hate and lies, Christianity dies
lol sure thing dude. without lies islam dies.