As a faithful Catholic, who is the son of a faithful Baptist mother and a family member of a huge Southern Baptist family, I want to thank the pastors. and the staff of Livingston first Baptist for putting together such a great presentation. And I want to thank Jimmy and Mr. White for their thoughtful expositions of their views.
I can't believe this debate actually happened! I think Akin has been wanting to debate White on this subject for like 10 years. I didn't think White would ever agree to the debate. I'm glad he did.
Dr. White helped me to get into serious Scripture reading after watching some of his debates in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Jimmy Akin and his Catholic Answers crew were instrumental in strengthening my Catholic faith. 🔴Any charitable person here? I need help to pay some rent and feed for the meantime until I get a new job. I have other issues but these are the most pressing at the moment. I don't mind shedding my anonymity if anyone is willing to help. Thanks and God bless.
The Bible is clear when it comes to Sola Scriptura the two verses below say it all. There's no need to debate this topic. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 "16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."
It's concerning that James White didn't seem to want to stick to the topic. He brought up Marian dogmas, purgatory, papal infallibility, the Synod on Synodality, Fiducia Supplicans and implied in his closings that Jimmy Akin should have defended these things when none of these things were the topic of the debate. Akin by contrast stuck on point and focused on the New Testament and the immediate apostolic age
Exactly what I noticed as well: James White spent the majority of his time attacking Catholic dogma (with some ad hominems sprinkled in) without actually defending the doctrine Sola Scriptura, and he didn't even have the honesty to admit that he was assuming to be true what he had to prove, indeed he constantly begged the question.
You're correct. That's part of why Akin won on the merits. BUT, _Sola Scriptura_ isn't really winnable on the merits unless the opponent is an inferior debater, because it's an intrinsically self-contradictory and anti-historical Epistemic System. Given this, James White has gradually evolved a tactic which serves him well: 1. Pretend that hot-takes by the New York Times or various other leftists represent an accurate depiction of Pope Francis's papacy, and remind the audience of those caricatures, however inaccurate; 2. Bring up unfamiliar or oft-derided dogmas that the audience doesn't understand, to create a negative reaction in the audience for emotional-association reasons. That way, when your opponent wins on the _logic of the thing_ (as he will typically do, with _Sola Scriptura,_ given its deficiencies) you can still be sure that an awful lot of _the audience_ wasn't persuaded by the arguments, because they were already tuned out for emotional reasons. It's not good arguing, but it's a good ploy.
From what I heard Mr. White was bringing it up largely because Jimmy Akin was arguing for apostolic tradition thus White was responding with the point that these are not apostolic tradition but later developed doctrines. Catholics usually admit much of this. No Catholic to my knowledge has ever argued that Marian dogmas are apostolic tradition (instead they appeal to the theory of doctrinal development of Cardinal Newman and authority).
@Adam-ue2ig that's his logic yes, but it would've been inappropriate for this debate to turn into a Marian dogma debate when that wasn't the topic. If James White wanted to debate the Marian dogma, he should have debated that instead. There are still apostolic traditions not found in the Bible which protestants recognize, Jimmy identified 4 and James White only interacted with that argument when forced to during cross examination.
I've got a serious question that, as far as I know, never gets brought up in these debates. How could Christians conceive scripture alone as completely sufficient when for the vast majority of Christian history the average man could not read or get access the the number of copies of the Bible we have today? if the Bible was indented to be taken alone, traditions rejected and the church had no authority to teach the Bible then how could anyone except a very few educated people ever come to learn it?
@@fortknox4740 And that is what in fact happened...by Catholic Priests...I guess my point is that the common man needed to be able to trust what was being read and who was reading it.
What incredible objectivity for a Protestant church to host a debate and tell the faithful to come to their own conclusions. True faith should not fear controversy. Amazing
I don't think James really engaged or refuted Jimmy's very straightforward argument. James agrees sola scriptura is a doctrine, and thus needs to be in scripture. But then also agrees that sola scriptura wasn't the paradigm until at least the second century which means it could not have been possible for it to have been taught in the New Testament. This seems to be a simply logical defeater of James' thesis, I don't see any alternatives out of it.
And not even in the second century, the bible was not finished until the five century (councils) so what happened in those 400 years? nobody entered heaven? lol no, not even the thief at the cross "needed it"
@@dezlovecraft5247to be fair St. Dismas was granted paradise, not heaven that day. Christ wouldn't open the gates of heaven as seen in Daniel 7 until the Ascension 43 days later.
The premisse were clear. You cannot gave doctrine that opposes to bible. And Pastor White used as examples those false doctrines such purgatory and mariology cannot be accepted. Also, he said over and over "Jesus used the Scriptures as secure and supreme fount of knowledge of God's will".
Same here I honestly thank James White for all he's done for helping me learn and through his debates with Catholics i saw how I had to come back home.
Thank God for our former episcopal minister who revealed she didn’t really believe the Bible was true and from the top down the episcopal church leadership condones, promotes, and even celebrates sins, such as; adultery via divorce/remarriage, murder via abortion/a woman’s right to choose, and homosexuality with many of the episcopal ministry in same sex relationships.
Thank you for hosting this debate! I think it is beneficial for all people. I'm a Catholic and unofficial student of Jimmy Akin!!! But thank you for hosting, God bless 🙌 🙏
Dear@@DouglasMcCall, as a Catholic literally takes the risen Body of Jesus into the heart and soul ("becoming like the One consumed" as the ancients used to say), yes, we can know that Christ is within us. Even if we do not feel Him there. Even if we feel the desolation Christ Himself felt as He asked "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"
As a Protestant, very disappointed in James. His case was 90% “nuh uh” and “but Catholics say Mary was assumed into heaven” which was irrelevant. The question was not about papal infallibility, or Catholic doctrines. It was about sola scriptura.
@@TruthHasSpoken I notice it more and more. He’s incredibly intelligent. But scripture says “knowledge puffs up” Intelligent, but too prideful in his intelligence.
@@joshuafeezor1304 You may not know, that after listening to her brother debate, Patti Bonds converted to Catholicism. th-cam.com/video/6KHgLzu_nbw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=L5YV7UB4HTwV0aFN
@@joshuafeezor1304 Here's a great video .... an amateur Catholic apologist and James White. th-cam.com/video/bF_Iwuh2IUw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=9CxMrid2DYM2EK8K
All apostolic churches believe that Mary, after her dormition Christ did take her body with him. Catholics (western and eastern) Eastern Orthodox Oriental orthodox Syrian church of the east hold this. It’s only the Protestants that don’t
Crazy how James White keeps appealing to his debate numbers as if they mean he won or something. It is a sophist technique and suggests an insecurity in his position. So is overloading, which he absolutely did. The point of the debate is to talk about the topic not add new topics that the other person has no time to address. It poisons the well. James White's debates are well known because it has helped so many come back to the Apostolic Faith.
James White: I can't support or demonstrate the topic of the debate "Sola Scriptura", so let's talk about Pope Francis, Mary's assumption and Trent Horn.
So is James’s argument that because Mary’s assumption is false sola scriptoria is true. Sounds like he’s tired of debating sola scriptoria and wants to debate Catholic marian beliefs. LOL
James' error is much worse than that: He's arguing that a Marian dogma is unbiblical, therefore you should believe in the Bible alone! It's assuming his own conclusion. He would have to prove without the Bible that the Marian dogmas were wrong to illustrate the proof by contradiction he is trying to use, but he would only undercut his own position by doing so. James is, unfortunately, not skilled at Aristotelian logic, which is weird for a guy who could read Aristotle in the original language.
This debate filled me with true, profound sadness realizing how many lies are believed by the Protestants about Christianity, as it has been lived and passed down by the one and only Catholic Church for two thousand years. I pray and hope for the reunification of Christians all over the world, that those fallen away may return home. God love you ❤
You worship a false Jesus who cannot save you, you believe you literally eat him to sacrifice him thousands of times a day because his crucifixion wasn't enough nor perfect, then you pray to Mary, call her the first sinless human being before Jesus Christ and make Jesus subservient to her and her whims. You're in idolatry and a slave to the corruption of Rome, you do not follow Christ, as Jesus says time and time and time and time again what you must do to be saved, is to believe and catholics add like 50 extra things to earn, lose, gain, regain and literally sell salvation and somehow you side with catholicism because they said "we are the true church because we have the authority to claim that"
The more James White debates, the more Catholic conversions he will help foster among the increasing number of protestants who are open to considering the Catholic Faith. I watched all of White’s debates with Catholics in order to help me avoid converting. They did the opposite-and the reasons why are abundantly obvious in this debate as well.
I think Dr. White has forgotten about the Orthodox. Scary Rome argument doesn’t really work against the fact that there are other Apostolic Traditions. He needs to realise no one taught sola scripture for 1500 years and it isn’t just Rome he is debating.
As a catholic living in a community that has several orthodox communities, I deeply appreciate your perspective, it’s always bothered me that so many of the “anti-catholic” positions are also anti-orthodox, but that never gets brought up and contended with.
Lol that's a very uninformed comment. Rome and Constantinople both claim to be the only true Apostolic church, and their traditions are different. Either only one of them is right, or James is right
@@marverb5 Both Catholics and Eastern Orthodox reject Sola Scriptura. So no, it's Protestants vs basically every other Christian denomination on this issue.
Well, I am not saying that James is wrong at 43:26, But St Augustine did believe in the Seat of Peter. Here is one of many examples.:“For if the lineal succession of bishops is to be taken into account, with how much more certainty and benefit to the Church do we reckon back till we reach Peter himself, to whom, as bearing in a figure the whole Church, the Lord said: ‘Upon this rock will I build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it !’ The successor of Peter was Linus, and his successors in unbroken continuity were these: - Clement, Anacletus, Evaristus, Alexander, Sixtus, Telesphorus, Iginus, Anicetus, Pius, Soter, Eleutherius, Victor, Zephirinus, Calixtus, Urbanus, Pontianus, Antherus, Fabianus, Cornelius, Lucius, Stephanus, Xystus, Dionysius, Felix, Eutychianus, Gaius, Marcellinus, Marcellus, Eusebius, Miltiades, Sylvester, Marcus, Julius, Liberius, Damasus, and Siricius, whose successor is the present Bishop Anastasius. In this order of succession no Donatist bishop is found. But, reversing the natural course of things, the Donatists sent to Rome from Africa an ordained bishop, who, putting himself at the head of a few Africans in the great metropolis, gave some notoriety to the name of ‘mountain men,’ or Cutzupits, by which they were known.” To Generosus, Epistle 53:2(A.D. 400), in NPNF1,I:298
Here’s another where he mentions the Seat of Peter: “For in the Catholic Church, not to speak of the purest wisdom, to the knowledge of which a few spiritual men attain in this life, so as to know it, in the scantiest measure, indeed, because they are but men, still without any uncertainty (since the rest of the multitude derive their entire security not from acuteness of intellect, but from simplicity of faith,)- not to speak of this wisdom, which you do not believe to be in the Catholic Church, there are many other things which most justly keep me in her bosom. The consent of peoples and nations keeps me in the Church; so does her authority, inaugurated by miracles, nourished by hope, enlarged by love, established by age. The succession of priests keeps me, beginning from the very seat of the Apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after His resurrection, gave it in charge to feed His sheep, down to the present episcopate. And so, lastly, does the name itself of Catholic, which, not without reason, amid so many heresies, the Church has thus retained; so that, though all heretics wish to be called Catholics, yet when a stranger asks where the Catholic Church meets, no heretic will venture to point to his own chapel or house. Such then in number and importance are the precious ties belonging to the Christian name which keep a believer in the Catholic Church, as it is right they should, though from the slowness of our understanding, or the small attainment of our life, the truth may not yet fully disclose itself. But with you, where there is none of these things to attract or keep me, the promise of truth is the only thing that comes into play. Now if the truth is so clearly proved as to leave no possibility of doubt, it must be set before all the things that keep me in the Catholic Church; but if there is only a promise without any fulfillment, no one shall move me from the faith which binds my mind with ties so many and so strong to the Christian religion.”
James lied multiple times in this debate. He cannot be trusted, you've just shown an example of him falsely claiming something that St. Augustine believed when he didn't. Another example is when the he brings up the example of Pope Honorius claiming that because he was excommunicated no one believed in Papal infallibility even though that same exact council AFFIRMS papal infallibility with Pope Agatho's letter which was read allowed and accepted completely by all present at the 6th ecumenical council. There are just two examples of him baring false witness or at the very least excluding context to work for his agenda. Anyone who knows about history knows that James told multiple lies. John 8:44 seems to me what James is following. Not the truth.
@@SevereFamine Just because Augustine believed that (I concede I don't know one way or another) doesn't mean the belief was shared amongst the Apostles or the early church. Without a solid scriptural basis (God's word) it's irrelevant to the body's well-being what Augustine believed if his beliefs were in error and detached from God's instruction, the Word.
Jimmy Akins lost this debate handily. He had no answers and only assumptions he can’t prove. Akin is a talented debater, but he can’t defend a position that is indefensible. White won easily because the truth is it’s own defense
Lmao uh huh. Tell me, give me one verse, where the Bible teaches sola scriptura, since you think Akin lost badly. Show me one Church Father that taught sola scriptura. Go ahead and bring up Augustine, so i can show you how he definitely favored the Catholic Church.
@@SaltyApologist James White needs to appeal to scripture to prove that it is the sole infallible authority. This is logically absurd. And even if scripture was a single book and that book claimed to be the only source of authority then you ought to be very suspicious of it. Authority comes from God alone, not from text in a book. Scripture is authoritative because God said it is...orally!
@@wordforever117 Its a debate between catholicism and protestants it needs to be theologicly sound. Logic employed by us temperal beings is always falling short. Likewise is depending on traditions. Especially if you like Akin drag in others that do not hold to the same traditions at all. The idea of Sola scriptura is indeed under the Sola Christus is His God breathed word the Bible.
@@Eskon2 It is logically absurd!! Ok example... Jesus said "blessed are the poor in spirit, for they shall see God" That is the Word of God. Question: Was it the Word of God when Mathew wrote it down? Or was it the Word of God when Jesus actually said it?
Catholics equate Mary and the Saints to God. They say and/or imply that they are omnipresent, which is an attribute that only God has. Please don't fall for it, they have false gods and a very false doctrine.
Billy, we welcome you with open arms, and pray that one day, we "may all be one as" Jesus and the Father are one (John 17). I pray that the Lord use you to draw many others like you back into the one and only Church that Jesus Christ himself founded. I think we are witnessing a tidal wave of conversions brought about by the Internet. It is no longer possible to claim that the Catholic Church teaches something when one can easily research to discover what the teaching actually says and means. That is why White's scare tactics just feel so dated and tired. What may have worked in the 80s simply doesn't pass muster today. Anyway, praise be to God. God's grace saves us as individuals and it protects and guides Jesus's Bride through the power of the Holy Spirit. Come, Lord Jesus!
Dear@Aaabbblllls, I have often told God in prayer that I do not understand Him. He is beyond the capacity of the human mind to comprehend. Truth is like that. Beyond us. James White does not understand the heights and depths of Catholic teaching. The Holy Spirit is revealing more of it every day. God Alone is our Guide and Advocate.
Dear@@gleeberger8966 , some of the names people give themselves are deeply ironic. As I am tone-deaf to irony or sarcasm (I used to be good at it, but I lost my taste for the game, so now...) I am a perfect straightman.
CHRISTIAN The Greek word Χριστιανός (Christianos), meaning "follower of Christ", comes from Χριστός (Christos), meaning "anointed one", FOLLOWERS of the TEACHINGS of Christ!!! Written 2000 years ago! NOT my interpretation!!! >>> A Christian (/ˈkrɪstʃən, -tiən/) is a person who follows or adheres to Christianity, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. --And NO CATHOLIC follows Christ and HIS Teachings!! I suggest you ask yourself: Is this what Christ taught??? >> FACTS: #1--Christ NEVER taught that Peter is a pope.-(where is the title Pope in the Bible?) #2--Christ NEVER taught that Mary will go to heaven. (Where does the bible say Mary will go/has gone to heaven?) #3--Christ NEVER taught that Mary is a mediator/intercessor. (Where does the bible say Mary is a mediator? #4--Christ NEVER taught that Mary never sinned. (Where in the bible does it state Mary never sinned?) #5--Christ NEVER taught that Mary remained virgin. (Where in the bible does it state Mary remained a virgin?) #6--Christ NEVER Taught that a mere man is head of His church. (Where is the Bible does it state a mere man is head of Christ's church?) #7--Christ NEVER taught about a church named Catholic. (Where in the Bible is a church named Catholic mentioned?) #8--Christ NEVER taught that we can pray to the dead.-(Where is the bible does it state we can pray to the dead?) #9--Christ NEVER taught that the dead can hear our prayers. (Where in the bible does it state the dead can hear our prayers #10--Christ NEVER taught that anyone can change the day of worship . (Where in the Bible does IT STATE GOD changed the day of worship to Sunday?) #11--Christ NEVER taught to confess to a "priest". (Where in the Bible does it state we are to confess our sins to a Priest?) #12--Christ NEVER Taught a priest can forgive your sins. (Where in the Bible does it state a priest can forgive our sins #13--Christ NEVER taught salvation is through a church..(Where is the bible does it state our salvation comes from a church #14--Christ NEVER taught to pray to, or with beads!!! (Where in the bile does it state we are to use/pray to beads?) #15--Christ NEVER started a church named Catholic!!! (Where in the Bible does it mention a church named Catholic?) #16--Christ never said to confess your sins to a priest.
James White tries to bait his opponents . His arguments are all over the place. Almost all of his arguments are sensational attacks on subjects that have nothing to do with sola Scriptura .
Truth. He does well in some areas to defend his sixteenth century beliefs, in others the vein in his head looks like it's going to explode any time he isn't getting the rise he's looking for
That was powerful in the cross examination segment. Mr. White repeatedly asked questions to Mr. Akin, and Mr. Akin repeatedly rebuked him, the 4th time around Mr. Akin looked to crowd knowingly and then repeated that we were talking about a supposed thing in the future not something that has happened. Mr. Akin, you did an excellent job presenting your beliefs.
Who cares what catholic church fathers believed? They are mouth pieces of the CC. Of course they are going to say its great. The millions of ruined childrens lives by dirty filthy cathoic costume holymen tell another story. Maybe the billions of statues the catholics get on their knees and pray to will save them on the great and terrible day of the Lord.
FACTS: #1--Christ NEVER taught that Peter is a pope.-(where is the title Pope in the Bible?) #2--Christ NEVER taught that Mary will go to heaven. (Where does the bible say Mary will go/has gone to heaven?) #3--Christ NEVER taught that Mary is a mediator/intercessor. (Where does the bible say Mary is a mediator? #4--Christ NEVER taught that Mary never sinned. (Where in the bible does it state Mary never sinned?) #5--Christ NEVER taught that Mary remained virgin. (Where in the bible does it state Mary remained a virgin?) #6--Christ NEVER Taught that a mere man is head of His church. (Where is the Bible does it state a mere man is head of Christ's church?) #7--Christ NEVER taught about a church named Catholic. (Where in the Bible is a church named Catholic mentioned?) #8--Christ NEVER taught that we can pray to the dead.-(Where is the bible does it state we can pray to the dead?) #9--Christ NEVER taught that the dead can hear our prayers. (Where in the bible does it state the dead can hear our prayers #10--Christ NEVER taught that anyone can change the day of worship . (Where in the Bible does IT STATE GOD changed the day of worship to Sunday?) #11--Christ NEVER taught to confess to a "priest". (Where in the Bible does it state we are to confess our sins to a Priest?) #12--Christ NEVER Taught a priest can forgive your sins. (Where in the Bible does it state a priest can forgive our sins #13--Christ NEVER taught salvation is through a church..(Where is the bible does it state our salvation comes from a church #14--Christ NEVER taught to pray to, or with beads!!! (Where in the bile does it state we are to use/pray to beads?) #15--Christ NEVER started a church named Catholic!!! (Where in the Bible does it mention a church named Catholic?) #16--Christ never said to confess your sins to a priest.
@@jlouis4407 quote----Show me where the apostles say their few letters show the totality of christian doctrine and is contained therein... unquote Few letters??What??? How many apostolic letters are in the Bible? Of the twenty-seven books of the New Testament, twenty-one are letters (about thirty-five percent of the New Testament): thirteen authored by the apostle Paul, two by the apostle Peter, one by James the brother of Jesus, and one by Jude the brother of James. 35% of the NT!!!!! ----
Really beautiful that Jimmy standed and took his hat off for the prayer at the end. It shows that Catholics give great respect to prayers said in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ!
The whole outfit was un-needed, deliberate attention. I think that taking his hat off during the (video recorded) prayer, although traditionally appropriate, brought even more unnecessary attention towards himself when all attention should have been directed towards God.
Did anyone else notice James would rather refer to the Church as Rome when he could have said Roman Catholic Church? It shows he doesn't believe the Catholic Church is a church. Interestingly, catholics have always considered Protestants as Christians.
If I learnt something, it was to talk politely with calmness and maintaining composure. Thank you so much Jimmy. It was a delight to listen to you. I learned a lot. Such debates are a great opportunity to learn so much about the true faith.
FACTS: #1--Christ NEVER taught that Peter is a pope.-(where is the title Pope in the Bible?) #2--Christ NEVER taught that Mary will go to heaven. (Where does the bible say Mary will go/has gone to heaven?) #3--Christ NEVER taught that Mary is a mediator/intercessor. (Where does the bible say Mary is a mediator? #4--Christ NEVER taught that Mary never sinned. (Where in the bible does it state Mary never sinned?) #5--Christ NEVER taught that Mary remained virgin. (Where in the bible does it state Mary remained a virgin?) #6--Christ NEVER Taught that a mere man is head of His church. (Where is the Bible does it state a mere man is head of Christ's church?) #7--Christ NEVER taught about a church named Catholic. (Where in the Bible is a church named Catholic mentioned?) #8--Christ NEVER taught that we can pray to the dead.-(Where is the bible does it state we can pray to the dead?) #9--Christ NEVER taught that the dead can hear our prayers. (Where in the bible does it state the dead can hear our prayers #10--Christ NEVER taught that anyone can change the day of worship . (Where in the Bible does IT STATE GOD changed the day of worship to Sunday?) #11--Christ NEVER taught to confess to a "priest". (Where in the Bible does it state we are to confess our sins to a Priest?) #12--Christ NEVER Taught a priest can forgive your sins. (Where in the Bible does it state a priest can forgive our sins #13--Christ NEVER taught salvation is through a church..(Where is the bible does it state our salvation comes from a church #14--Christ NEVER taught to pray to, or with beads!!! (Where in the bile does it state we are to use/pray to beads?) #15--Christ NEVER started a church named Catholic!!! (Where in the Bible does it mention a church named Catholic?) #16--Christ never said to confess your sins to a priest.
FACTS: #1--Christ NEVER taught that Peter is a pope.-(where is the title Pope in the Bible?) #2--Christ NEVER taught that Mary will go to heaven. (Where does the bible say Mary will go/has gone to heaven?) #3--Christ NEVER taught that Mary is a mediator/intercessor. (Where does the bible say Mary is a mediator? #4--Christ NEVER taught that Mary never sinned. (Where in the bible does it state Mary never sinned?) #5--Christ NEVER taught that Mary remained virgin. (Where in the bible does it state Mary remained a virgin?) #6--Christ NEVER Taught that a mere man is head of His church. (Where is the Bible does it state a mere man is head of Christ's church?) #7--Christ NEVER taught about a church named Catholic. (Where in the Bible is a church named Catholic mentioned?) #8--Christ NEVER taught that we can pray to the dead.-(Where is the bible does it state we can pray to the dead?) #9--Christ NEVER taught that the dead can hear our prayers. (Where in the bible does it state the dead can hear our prayers #10--Christ NEVER taught that anyone can change the day of worship . (Where in the Bible does IT STATE GOD changed the day of worship to Sunday?) #11--Christ NEVER taught to confess to a "priest". (Where in the Bible does it state we are to confess our sins to a Priest?) #12--Christ NEVER Taught a priest can forgive your sins. (Where in the Bible does it state a priest can forgive our sins #13--Christ NEVER taught salvation is through a church..(Where is the bible does it state our salvation comes from a church #14--Christ NEVER taught to pray to, or with beads!!! (Where in the bile does it state we are to use/pray to beads?) #15--Christ NEVER started a church named Catholic!!! (Where in the Bible does it mention a church named Catholic?) #16--Christ never said to confess your sins to a priest.
@@fredrosas2575No Jimmy doesn't. It's called confidence and manners. Usually, people who don't have manners are offended by them. A suspicious mind isn't the mind of Christ
Let God judge their hearts. None of you can know the secrets of the heart or why they sound the way they do. I can appear humble when I am as proud as a peacock. Let's us not be distracted from what they are presenting.
James Whites debate against Patrick Madrid on sola scriptura actually led me to come out of Protestantism. I’m currently looking into information on Orthodoxy and Catholicism so pray God guides me through this time.
Did we watch the same debate? White literally claims that he wasn't "overloading" even though right after claiming that he says "purgatory, Marian dogmas, papal infallibility" when this debate is not about any of those. James was very dishonest as well, especially when he claimed that no one believed in papal infallibility because of Pope Honorius without including the context that the same exact council taught that all previous Popes (including Honorius) never taught heresy and cannot based on the promise of Christ which was completely affirmed by all attending. Please read the 6th ecumenical council and Pope Agatho's letter which was presented at the council and read allowed to all present and affirmed by all present. James simply lied.
White didn’t even go into the topic of the debate. His entire argument was a red herring because instead of trying to disprove the necessity of an infallible tradition he instead goes to attack Catholic tradition.
Why does James White always say, "Roman?" Doesn't he realize "Roman Catholic" is only one type of Catholic? There are a bunch of different Catholic Rites, with the Roman Rite being only one of them
I don’t think James White is referring to the Roman rite. When we call ourselves ‘Roman Catholics,’ it refers to submitting to the authority of the Bishop of Rome, also known as the Pope, Roman Pontiff, Patriarch of the West, etc. Catholics who attend the other eastern rites are also Roman Catholics.
I think he wants to Demonize us a bit. Ties us to the Romans... those that did the actual crucifiction. Because, in this mind if he just says Catholics, it just doesn't have that punch. But just a tiny opinion here.
James White is arrogant and has a long way to go. I am not Roman Catholic. I am not a Protestant either. Jimmy Aken has my respect he always has. He is a very smart man who seems to love the truth as far as I can tell. Glory to God for all things! ✝️☦️✝️
Weak arguments by James... Bringing Mother of our Lord Jesus in Debate just to prove his point not even the topic... James exposed the whole protestantism position.
The context of him bringing Mary and those doctrines up was Mr. Akins appeal to apostolic tradition so that presents fair game for Mr. White to argue that those doctrines are later developments not part of the apostolic teaching/tradition.
Why is it so hard to understand that Jesus is King? His kingdom is not of this world. We’re all temporary in this world. Jesus is King. He told Pilate. Jesus is King therefore, Jesus has a Kingdom. Jesus is King of the Universe. He left the keys to Peter, now Peter died, Peter will have a successor. Mary is in Heaven, same as you believe that you will go to heaven if you are a loyal follower of Christ and without sin. We are so lucky we have the Catholic Church all over the world uphelding the true teachings of Jesus. To be holy and make sacrifices and to love the other children of God. We are all sinners and keep making mistakes, but that is well understood. Jesus said He will judge you at the end, same as He will separate the sheeps from the goats. He said to eat His Body and He will live in us. He said for the Apostles “Peace be with you, the sins you forgive will be forgiven.” Dr. James White keeps saying sola scriptura but he doesn’t even believe in the teachings of Jesus. I feel like he’s the one misleading people away from the Kingdom of God.
There are wayyy to many scriptures that speak to us that say that we should remain in the Word of God alone... one of my favorites Matthew 4:4 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Live on the scriptures!
You could be right in that there will be conversions from Protestantism to Catholicism. The greater issue you are ignoring is that according to most data, Christianity is dying.
@@KennethRaupachChristianity is dying ?😂 it’s not a music genre buddy at one stage there was only 12 believing people alive during Moses time think about that one
Thank you Jimmy for that wonderful and clearly expalination,I love being a Catholic praise be Jesus Christ.. God bless you.hope many protestant fully understand and embrace the Catholic faith.
I converted from generic protestant churches to the one holy and apostolic Catholic Church several years ago. James White just confirmed I made the right choice.
You guys are all copy pasting the same comment that James white made you catholic. Is that a tacit admission that the other guy did poorly and was himself not convincing enough?
I don't know why I even listened to these two characters but I had a long drive. Honestly I don't know the catholic guy but White I've heard and don't agree with his theology but he did fine in defense for Christianity. Catholic beliefs about the sacraments, the roles of the Bible and tradition, the importance of the Virgin Mary and the saints, and the papacy are contrary to what I know to be Christianity. I find way too much idolatry going on & justified. If you visit the vatican will you see any scripture on the walls? No, just statues and paintings and many are quite evil. Does this explain why the catholic church does not really support the Word? History showed us they didn't want us to have it & after the reformation they tried to smooth that one out. Mary, the rosary, the eucharist and the complete love for the church baffles me. The other stuff is not scriptural but man made the dedication to the church is more idolatry. The Church is the body of Christ not a building or particular denomination. We have always had false churches as we still do today. I have left a certain denomination after the Lord matured me in His knowledge of the Word. If I was a catholic & realized it was wrong where would I go? They claim it's the only church, I'd have to submit & justify it's wrongs. What I have is God the only Father through Jesus Christ who sits hand of the Father and has sent me his Holy Spirit. I have Christ in me & I in him because of that. The precious blood of Jesus Christ on that mercy seat is the blood of the final sacrafice. I can enter into the throne room of God now & make my petitions known, I don't need a church to do that, I don't need a man of flesh to do that for me, I won't give that to a priest, Jesus Christ was the last & final priest, God's Word is now written down by the power of God, He & He alone has made that happen. We are destroyed for a lack of knowledge so "I" will stay in His Word & constantly study it as lead by the Holy Spirit. I will also hear the Word of God by a pastor & preacher that I believe we're called. No traditions to follow except what is written and when something is said & done outside what is written it is time to Protest & leave. Unlike you I don't make choices on a single man especially when I have the Word, the Lord & husband Spirit. Especially could I not run to the catholic church that has not only bad history but doctrines of men & some I believe are doctrines of demons. I realize their is the human characteristic of those who prefer to be led, those who rather submit to man rather than God. In order to do that we need to have the ability to want to think for ourselves with the Holy Spirit. The man made doctrine of the justification of Mary should alert you. They claim Mary is not their mediator but they always go to Mary first especially the women. The way y'all adorn the statue, that doesn't tell you something? And what does that do to Christ, leaving him back there for later? The weak minded will always flow to something of the flesh or evil that will do all the work & thinking for them
Well it helps to get the other anti-Catholics all fired up, like the host church. Did you notice that the moderator put in a plug for sharing the Baptist faith with the Catholics? Pretty cheeky.
I do too. It's because a different gospel is presented by the catholic church. If you studied your Bible, you would see this. The church sacrifices Jesus in mass weekly. This is abhorrent and blasphemous. Jesus died once for all and His righteousness placed upon us to present us holy before God. This is clearly written in Romans and seen throughout the Bible. The catholic church do not believe this. "Blessed is the man whose sins are forgiven; whose transgressions the Lord will never count against him."(Romans 4:7, 8). "we have been made holy through the sacrifice of Jesus body once for all. Day after day the priest offers the same sacrifices that can never take away sins." Hebrews 10:10- 14
@@vaekkriinhart4347 First, you should not hate another Christian brother/sister. We should pray for others. A different Gospel is not presented by the Church. Please read John 6, Jesus does not describe his body as a symbol to be offered up. We practice the Mass today the same way that the earliest Christians did. The offering of the Eucharist is the new passover and new covenant which is shown in The Last Supper as well. The Old Testament directly correlates to the New Testament.
Jesus is truth right? I'm sure you know. Add that to the last verse I'm the gospel of john. I'd like you to seek what it says on your own but most people don't like doing that though it's seeking truth. The last verse is " Even though Jesus said and did many more things, I suppose not every book could be written of the things he said or did. " not every truth is written about Jesus nor his about his ministry. But Jesus reveals truth. So its not lost to us. And bow its not a tie and Solas scripture got utterly destroyed.
@jakeh2848 If Jesus is the truth and you cannot know what is NOT written about Him, then OBVIOUSLY, the ONLY way to infallibly KNOW ANYTHING Jesus said or did or TAUGHT is by the God-breathed holy Scriptures. Scripture alone is without error and without any illogical contradiction. The councils of churches can and often did err and make irrational contradictions. Unwritten traditions morph over time and are mutable. God's written words never change over time. They are forever settled in heaven and cannot be broken. Psalm 119:89; John 10:35; Matthew 10:17ff KJV
Magnificent exposition by Mr. Akins. Very coherent, reasonable and biblical. Mr. White will never get to fully know Christ on his postures. I'll pray for his conversion.
As a Catholic, prior to listening to the debate, Acts 8 gives the way that the scriptures are to be read in relation to the Church. The Ethiopian was reading the book Isaiah, the Spirit sent Philip, a leader of the church to him. The Ethiopian's words are words of humility, willing to be taught, not insisting that he will learn the truth from the text alone. This is the model scripture gives for reading the Bible, not apart from the Church, but humbly being willing to listen to it. Martin Luther's example is directly contradictory to the example laid out in Scripture, and not to be followed. When we hear what Paul says to Timothy about scriture being profitable for teaching and correction, it isn't individuals reading and correcting themselves, it is the church's responsibility to teach and correct. The book can't respond and provide the precise answer if somebody doesn't find the necessary passage to be instructed. The fact is, sola scriptura is the precursor to moral relativism. Prior to the reformation, the was no doubt about the truth, but after, thousands of contradicting opinions have raised enough doubt in people's minds that they are giving up any hope of knowing the truth, so the say the classic relativist line that any truth presented to them isn't true for them if they don't want to have to follow biblical morality. Also consider that the method for becoming a biblical leader is laid out in Acts 1, the Church choses the leader, nobody gets to chose himself as leader. In the bible, the new leader is chosen, then has hands laid on him. Martin Luther's man made tradition of seizing leadership and creating a new church is contrary to the biblical example, and the divisions in protestantism are proof that it isn't biblical since we don't see such divisions within the biblical Church. One final thought, if somebody creates a new church distinct from the church that existed from the first century, it is an attempt to create a new bride for Jesus making hime either an adulterer or a polygamist because Jesus taught that divorce and polyamory are contrary to God's plan.
Thanks to both men for coming out and defending their views! Both did a great job explaining their disagreements and their chain of reasoning for their position. Well done.
Former “nondenominational Christian” here from Calvary Chapel in Southern California, Jimmy Akin, Tim Staples, Dr. Taylor Marshall and The Terry and Jesse Show on Virgin Most Powerful Internet Radio app helped me become a full Christian, a Catholic Christian ❤
I use to listen to TM but then I realized that he makes a living spreading gossip and heresay, so I unsubscribed. I started noticing that he would always say, “an anonymous insider at the Vatican told me X,Y, Z..” That was a red flag for me.
@@josephgoemans6948Dr Taylor Marshall is 99% spot on and he is on the same page as Terry and Jesse Romero from Virgin Most Powerful. Plus he is a fellow Protestant convert
The most important part of the question and answer part is to allow the question to be asked first before interrupting or snapping at the other. I didn't like how often Jimmy was interrupted. Jimmy, thank you for being patient and respectful in spite of the fact that the interruptions actually robbed you of asking the question.
Interestingly enough, James White accuses Jimmy Akin of equivocating while he simultaneously tries to assert "tradition" doesn't mean "tradition" but "the Gospel". HOW SWAY
I think he was saying this in the context of what is required apostolic beliefs/tradition...i.e that Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead on the third day, justification by faith etc rather than Marian dogmas or later developed traditions that were not apostolic teaching
@eucharistangel4662 Obviously. I'm not a scholar, but I can recognize that he is unable to defend the affirmative stance. "Rome bad" is not an argument in favor of the doctrine of sola scriptura, but he is not able to stick to the topic that is being debated. Sola scriptura can be false even if the roman catholic church is not the true Church. His argument is "theopneustos" = sola scriptura. Really?
Oh my, it thought it would be bad but now I've watched this James White was absolutely destroyed. I started to feel embarrassed for him, especially in the cross examination.
43:32 Ask Cyprian? Ok. The Unity of the Church - St. Cyprian of Carthage, 251 AD Chapter 4 If anyone considers and examines these things, there is no need of a lengthy discussion and arguments. Proof for faith is easy in a brief statement of the truth. The Lord speaks to Peter: 'I say to thee,' He says, 'thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven, and whatever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed also in heaven.' Upon him, being one, He builds His Church, and although after His resurrection He bestows equal power upon all the Apostles, and says: 'As the Father has sent me, I also send you. Receive ye the Holy Spirit: if you forgive the sins of anyone, they will be forgiven him; if you retain the sins of anyone, they will be retained,' yet that He might display unity, He established by His authority the origin of the same unity as beginning from one. Surely the rest of the Apostles also were that which Peter was, endowed with an equal partnership of office and of power, but the beginning proceeds from unity, that the Church of Christ may be shown to be one. This one Church, also, the Holy Spirit in the Canticle of Canticles designates in the person of the Lord and says: 'One is my dove, my perfect one is but one, she is the only one of her mother, the chosen one of her that bore her.' Does he who does not hold this unity think that he holds the faith? Does he who strives against the Church and resists her think that he is in the Church, when too the blessed Apostle Paul teaches this same thing and sets forth the sacrament of unity saying: 'One body and one Spirit, one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God'? Chapter 5 This unity we ought to hold firmly and defend, especially we bishops who watch over the Church, that we may prove that also the episcopate itself is one and undivided. Let no one deceive the brotherhood by lying; let no one corrupt the faith by a perfidious prevarication of the truth. The episcopate is one, the parts of which are held together by the individual bishops. The Church is one which with increasing fecundity extend far and wide into the multitude, just as the rays of the sun are many but the light is one, and the branches of the tree are many but the strength is one founded in its tenacious root, and, when many streams flow from one source, although a multiplicity of waters seems to have been diffused from the abundance of the overflowing supply nevertheless unity is preserved in their origin. Take away a ray of light from the body of the sun, its unity does not take on any division of its light; break a branch from a tree, the branch thus broken will not be able to bud; cut off a stream from its source, the stream thus cut off dries up. Thus too the Church bathed in the light of the Lord projects its rays over the whole world, yet there is one light which is diffused everywhere, and the unity of the body is not separated. She extends her branches over the whole earth in fruitful abundance; she extends her richly flowing streams far and wide; yet her head is one, and her source is one, and she is the one mother copious in the results of her fruitfulness. By her womb we are born; by her milk we are nourished; by her spirit we are animated. Chapter 6 The spouse of Christ cannot be defiled; she is uncorrupted and chaste. She knows one home, with chaste modesty she guards the sanctity of one couch. She keeps us for God; she assigns the children whom she has created to the kingdom. Whoever is separated from the Church and is joined with an adulteress is separated from the promises of the Church, nor will he who has abandoned the Church arrive at the rewards of Christ. He is a stranger; he is profane; he is an enemy. He cannot have God as a father who does not have the Church as a mother. If whoever was outside the ark of Noe was able to escape, he too who is outside the Church escapes. The Lord warns, saying: 'He who is not with me is against me, and who does not gather with me, scatters.' He who breaks the peace and concord of Christ acts against Christ; he who gathers somewhere outside the Church scatters the Church of Christ. The Lord says: 'I and the Father are one.' And again of the Father and Son and the Holy Spirit it is written: 'And these three are one.' Does anyone believe that this unity which comes from divine strength, which is closely connected with the divine sacraments, can be broken asunder in the Church and be separated by the divisions of colliding wills? He who does not hold this unity, does not hold the law of God, does not hold the faith of the Father and the Son, does not hold life and salvation.
You are proving his point. James said to "ask Cyprian" concerning Popes infallibility dogma, which you have not proven with this blok of text you posted. No wonder the Orthodox are laughing at you, here's the proof: " Surely the rest of the Apostles also were that which Peter was, endowed with an equal partnership of office and of power, but the beginning proceeds from unity, that the Church of Christ may be shown to be one.." Peter is the "one" from whom unity streams, but he is only first among the equals in the eyes of Cyprian, as others are "endowed with equal partnership of office AND POWER..."
Right! I feel so blind not to have seen it before!! John 20:22-23! How many times I have read it, and not seen that it is a response to the 2 Timothy 3 "God-breathed the scriptures" argument against including Magisterium and Tradition!
And they in turn lay hands on their successors, and they become divinely ordained ministers of the New Covenant Hierarchical Priesthood in Christ Jesus, in order to carry on the Preaching, Teaching. Practicing , Handing down the Gospel of Christ/Salvation, AND the Sanctifying and Salvific work of God in the world.
Let's all reply like you did. Let's keep it balanced. To say that James White was pathetic shows that you are NOT reasonable. They both made their points through scripture. Keeping in the spirit of your argument. Let's also say that Jimmy was Pathetic.
@@polokucoch8112 White's points were awful, he did not even attempt to prove the resolution, he spent his tim painting "Rome" as the villain. Jimmy instead actually stuck to talking about the resolution, and he successfully proved it's false. It's clear as day that they did not approach the debate in the same way, White was constantly misdirecting the Audience with talks about "ooh Rome bad" knowing that Jimmy couldn't have responded, because it's a discussion about Sola Scriptura and he had prepared arguments about Sola Scriptura. White even failed to deny convincingly Jimmy's proof that Sola Scriptura doesn't meet its own test, your position is just incoherent pal.
@@dr.tafazzi Are you DRUNK? What was the topic of the debate? It was on Sola Scriptura. Of course, James would prepare for that!! Are you seriously DRUNK? Just that fact alone tells me that you are waaaay off base. Did you hear what James said? He said that Jimmy didn't even respond to the points he made and instead, Jimmy made a powerpoint slide that didn't address the points James made. How can you prepare a powerpoint rebuttal without knowing what your opponent is saying??? Again, Waaaaay off base. And whether you believe in Sola Scriptura or not, if your powerpoint has virtually ZERO scripture to support or rebut arguments then that means that these are Jimmy's thoughts. That's the last guy I want to trust. Dr. James White clearly defined Sola Scriptura. Whether you want to accept that or not is another matter. I think this sums it up well : Jimmy : "God guides the pope so that he doesn't make mistakes" James White's response - "God guides the pope so that he doesn't make mistakes???" My response : "Is Jimmy on DRUGS?"
@@polokucoch8112 IF you are protestant, THEN you can only use scripture to prove sola scriptura (which James failed) But if you are NOT PROTESTANT, you are NOT RELEGATED to scripture alone to make your case. God voice speaks through the heavens, other people, circumstances in our own lives, art, music (that glorified Him) AND YES, History and Logic! Sola scriptura cannot defend sola scriptura. Theres so much MORE evidence against it
@@o.o.2255 God's voice speaks in many ways. How do you know that what you think you are hearing is right? Do you really think that logic is the same for every single person? It's scary the way you are thinking... What is the ONLY way That you can confirm what you think is God's voice? Is it possible that it's NOT God's voice? Here is one thing that is certain : The scripture is 100% God's voice. This sums it up perfectly. Jimmy said "God guides the pope so that he doesn't make mistakes"
Living in south Louisiana, which is firmly Catholic, it's hard to imagine this happening in the same state. I say that this much respect for these fellow Louisiana Christians.
This debate was done in a rural area, which is more protestant than the rest of the state. At this particular debate there was a strong Catholic presence but at the next one it was more protestant. Fun times!
I've never heard of any of these people, but dang, James White really does not have a good presence about him. He just seems untrustworthy and ingenuine.
@@mruder8787 FACTS: #1--Christ NEVER taught that Peter is a pope.-(where is the title Pope in the Bible?) #2--Christ NEVER taught that Mary will go to heaven. (Where does the bible say Mary will go/has gone to heaven?) #3--Christ NEVER taught that Mary is a mediator/intercessor. (Where does the bible say Mary is a mediator? #4--Christ NEVER taught that Mary never sinned. (Where in the bible does it state Mary never sinned?) #5--Christ NEVER taught that Mary remained virgin. (Where in the bible does it state Mary remained a virgin?) #6--Christ NEVER Taught that a mere man is head of His church. (Where is the Bible does it state a mere man is head of Christ's church?) #7--Christ NEVER taught about a church named Catholic. (Where in the Bible is a church named Catholic mentioned?) #8--Christ NEVER taught that we can pray to the dead.-(Where is the bible does it state we can pray to the dead?) #9--Christ NEVER taught that the dead can hear our prayers. (Where in the bible does it state the dead can hear our prayers #10--Christ NEVER taught that anyone can change the day of worship . (Where in the Bible does IT STATE GOD changed the day of worship to Sunday?) #11--Christ NEVER taught to confess to a "priest". (Where in the Bible does it state we are to confess our sins to a Priest?) #12--Christ NEVER Taught a priest can forgive your sins. (Where in the Bible does it state a priest can forgive our sins #13--Christ NEVER taught salvation is through a church..(Where is the bible does it state our salvation comes from a church #14--Christ NEVER taught to pray to, or with beads!!! (Where in the bile does it state we are to use/pray to beads?) #15--Christ NEVER started a church named Catholic!!! (Where in the Bible does it mention a church named Catholic?) #16--Christ never said to confess your sins to a priest.
Jimmy couldn’t refute it, he deflected by accusing James of using a debate tactic and claiming he didn’t have time. This suggests White was not lying with the history.
I love how Jimmy let James completely squander his entire first cross-examination when JW focused not at all on Sola Scriptura, but on Fiducia Supplicans and the Synod on Synodality. ^_^
@@spartakos3178 - Not at all. White was turning red more than once. I've watched tons of his work. You know when he is miffed and he was miffed a lot in this. Akin was calm and collected. He had not only scripture but also White's books in his presentation. Akin got this one.
@@scotthix2926 That's not how Church define the Doctrine. The Doctrine is defined by carefully looking at Holy Tradition & Holy Scripture bcz not everything is written in Holy Scripture bcz our Church Fathers is the one who compiled the Holy Scripture. ★ The New Testament canon was not determined until the late 300s, books the Church deemed sacred were early on proclaimed at Mass, and read and preached about otherwise. Early Christian writings outnumbered the 30+ books that would become the canon of the New Testament. The shepherds of the Church[Church Fathers], by a process of spiritual discernment and investigation into the liturgical traditions of the Church spread throughout the world, had to draw clear lines of distinction between books that are truly inspired by God and originated in the apostolic period, and those which only claimed to have these qualities. Apostles didn't gave the Bible the Church did. ★The process culminated in 382 as the Council of Rome, which was convened under the leadership of Pope Damasus, promulgated the 73-book scriptural canon. The biblical canon was reaffirmed by the regional councils of Hippo (393) and Carthage (397), and then definitively reaffirmed by the ecumenical Council of Florence in 1442. ★The Old Testament books were written well before Jesus’ Incarnation and all of the New Testament books were written by roughly the end of the first century A.D.But the Bible as a whole was not officially compiled until the late fourth century, illustrating that it was the Catholic Church who determined the canon-or list of books-of the Bible under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Indeed, the Bible is not a self-canonizing collection of books, as there is no table of contents included in any of the books.
@@John_Six it's incredible that the debate is supposed to be about James White defending Sola Scriptura, yet he looked to be on the offensive way more than Jimmy was. I thank God for Jimmy... kept his head, calm and kept exposing James's tactics
I'm not the best with formal debates, but isn’t the purpose of an opening statement to establish the basis of your own argument, and not to rebutt the other side? Why, then, was White talking about his interpretation of the Catholic position during his opening statement? Edit: I must be wrong about that, as I just got to Jimmy's part, and he did it too, so either it's ok or they both did the same incorrect thing and it canceled out.
Because Sola Scriptura is indefensable so people who adhere to it must go on the offensive and attack the authority of Apostolic Tradition and the Magesterium instead.
Trent Horn pointed out White's... weird interpretation of what counts as an "opening statement" in his debate on Purgatory of a handful of months ago. Jimmy must have prepared to talk on that level.
When I watch debates on this topic, I fully appreciate how Protestants can arrive at an O.T. Sola-scripture (because of Jesus' words), but not the N.T. canon. I wonder how anyone knows that Jesus endorses the 27 book N.T. canon.
Thank you Dr James White you cured my Christian apathy. The debate between you and Dr Brown on Predestination just called out to me in the loudest way. Thank you God for giving me ears to hear Dr James White that day. I now am a pipe hitting Calvinist.
I agree. I would love to hear anything substantive from the Akin lovers in these comments. I honestly believe Jimmy Akin was completely dishonest and this debate performance was an embarrassment for him.
Well, Mr. White admitted that Sola Scriptura was not always in effect especially in the first century so this is now post biblical inference. Additionally, if you listen to Mr. White, the majority of his arguments were not to the affirmative position it was him listing out things he doesn’t like about the Catholic Church and even complained about Jimmy Akin citing his own book and already having rebuttal arguments prepared. When someone deviates from their own position, brings up non related topics, and then complains about someone’s rebuttal, it’s a sign they are already on their heels. Talk to the Orthodox or Coptic Christians if you want on this topic as well.
White can't even tell you when Christians first started practicing Sola Scriptura. He dodged the question repeatedly. He couldn't give the century, let alone an actual date. The whole thing is man-made in the 16th c. One can trace exactly from whom it started: a Catholic priest with no authority named Luther. Today, protestants can't even give you an agreed to definition of the doctrine. It's fruit was, is, and shall ever be: doctrinal chaos, confusion and division. White has done a good job helping protestants convert to Catholicism. This includes his sister !!
From a rules of debate perspective James lost because he is defending the affirmative and thus needs to present a positive case for Sola Scriptura. But, instead presented a Negative case against Catholicism. Disproving Catholic authority is not the same as proving Sola Scriptura. That's how I would objectively look at the results
@@Godfrey118 Right. He can't show a positive case. This includes his being unable to show in history who first taught it. And indeed, the early Christian Church - all Catholic, heresies excluded, revered Scripture. But no one went around teaching the 16th c invention of the Catholic priest named Luther.
Can a Protestant explain the Words of Christ to His Apostles (the first Bishops) - "What you bind on Earth shall be bound in Heaven. What you loose on Earth shall be loosed in Heaven." (Matthew 18:18) Is not Christ giving the first ordained Bishops and Pope authority to rule His Church on Earth? If each person is to interpret Scripture themselves, what sort of confusion does that create?
... Sola Scriptura MEANS the sole INFALLIBLE rule of faith and practice... It's literally in the definition of the term. He even states it in his opening statement.
You're conflating the two perspectives he said in his opening statement. Sola scriptura is the sole infallible rule of faith for the church. Sola scriptura is also the default position of scripture itself. Thats not an equivocation.
Can someone explain White’s reasoning in his cross examination? I thought the topic for debate was Sola Scriptura, not recent controversies he disagrees with.
ele sempre faz isso em todos os seus debates, infelizmente! Não importa o assunto, sempre ele dará um jeito de falar sobre como o Papa Francisco "está" mudando a doutrina, e etc.
❤ AMEN 😍 had that self proclaimed "pastor" going to here and there! Bouncing all over the place because he couldn't defend the topic that he brought up to Jimmy Akin 😂.
Wait, I came here looking for answers. Read the comments and saw a load of catholics throwing insincere, passive aggressive comments like "Thank God for James White. Because of him, I’m now a convert from the man-made Protestant religion to the Church Jesus established ". Yet this debate isn't as clear cut as those who have a bias towards their own views being right. I'm actually seeing Mr Akin, avoid answering very valid questions that Dr White is addressing. Instead of addressing them he's throwing out statements like " he's overloading". Ironically, he spent like 20-30 seconds wasting his own time to make this point. As someone who has an honest, sincere interest in Catholicism and is exploring it, all of your comments and what I'm seeing in this video aren't helping. It's like seeing how Muslims respond in the comment sections to debates on the trinity. Brothers, sisters - keep in mind that how you speak and conduct yourself online is acting as a representation to what you believe. So for someone exploring with a sincere heart, it's a bit of a turn off. Edit: I also find Mr Akin to be very lacking in grace and very condescending. How on earth is this going to bring people to see as Catholicism as true? A sassy speaker and a comment section full of the same spirit, come on guys - you can do better than this.
I wonder how many Baptists left that night and went home and ordered Jimmy’s book “The Fathers Know Best.” They’ve never heard of “early Church Fathers” from the pulpit, that’s for sure.
Why lie Leo? If you are so sure about your Catholic faith, just keep it real. I'm not saying I agree with White or not, but I don't feel the need to lie about what I was believing prior to the debate.
Protestant converted to Catholic here! I LOVE the Catholic Church! I feel so complete as a Christian now! If you’re Protestant I urge you to look into Catholicism! Come home to the original church Jesus founded! All Praise to Jesus Christ 🙏
As a faithful Catholic, who is the son of a faithful Baptist mother and a family member of a huge Southern Baptist family, I want to thank the pastors. and the staff of Livingston first Baptist for putting together such a great presentation. And I want to thank Jimmy and Mr. White for their thoughtful expositions of their views.
James White was a disgrace
@@Greg-n. James White did a great job trying to stay on task as Jimmy danced around the truth
@@KamalaKackles james yelled about the bodily assumption of Mary and his misunderstanding of papal infallibility lol
@@KamalaKackles I love this comment
@@Greg-n as he usually do when he is running out of arguments...didn't Jimmy pointed it out to which he said; "I'm happy to respond"
I can't believe this debate actually happened! I think Akin has been wanting to debate White on this subject for like 10 years. I didn't think White would ever agree to the debate. I'm glad he did.
Me too! Totally exposed his views.
They already debated this topic before.
How long do you give White until he converts to Catholicism? What's your best guess?
Jimmy was very well prepared.
@@ghostapostle7225Shhh! Don't spoil these people's thread with facts.
9:38: White's opening
24:25 Akin's opening
40:11 Rebuttals begin
1:03:42 cross examination begins
Thank you.
Thank you kind sir.
Dr. White helped me to get into serious Scripture reading after watching some of his debates in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Jimmy Akin and his Catholic Answers crew were instrumental in strengthening my Catholic faith.
🔴Any charitable person here? I need help to pay some rent and feed for the meantime until I get a new job. I have other issues but these are the most pressing at the moment. I don't mind shedding my anonymity if anyone is willing to help. Thanks and God bless.
Thank you
The Bible is clear when it comes to Sola Scriptura the two verses below say it all. There's no need to debate this topic.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 "16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."
It's concerning that James White didn't seem to want to stick to the topic. He brought up Marian dogmas, purgatory, papal infallibility, the Synod on Synodality, Fiducia Supplicans and implied in his closings that Jimmy Akin should have defended these things when none of these things were the topic of the debate. Akin by contrast stuck on point and focused on the New Testament and the immediate apostolic age
Exactly what I noticed as well: James White spent the majority of his time attacking Catholic dogma (with some ad hominems sprinkled in) without actually defending the doctrine Sola Scriptura, and he didn't even have the honesty to admit that he was assuming to be true what he had to prove, indeed he constantly begged the question.
You're correct. That's part of why Akin won on the merits. BUT, _Sola Scriptura_ isn't really winnable on the merits unless the opponent is an inferior debater, because it's an intrinsically self-contradictory and anti-historical Epistemic System.
Given this, James White has gradually evolved a tactic which serves him well: 1. Pretend that hot-takes by the New York Times or various other leftists represent an accurate depiction of Pope Francis's papacy, and remind the audience of those caricatures, however inaccurate; 2. Bring up unfamiliar or oft-derided dogmas that the audience doesn't understand, to create a negative reaction in the audience for emotional-association reasons. That way, when your opponent wins on the _logic of the thing_ (as he will typically do, with _Sola Scriptura,_ given its deficiencies) you can still be sure that an awful lot of _the audience_ wasn't persuaded by the arguments, because they were already tuned out for emotional reasons.
It's not good arguing, but it's a good ploy.
From what I heard Mr. White was bringing it up largely because Jimmy Akin was arguing for apostolic tradition thus White was responding with the point that these are not apostolic tradition but later developed doctrines. Catholics usually admit much of this. No Catholic to my knowledge has ever argued that Marian dogmas are apostolic tradition (instead they appeal to the theory of doctrinal development of Cardinal Newman and authority).
Yeah, and Jimmy still crushed him😂
@Adam-ue2ig that's his logic yes, but it would've been inappropriate for this debate to turn into a Marian dogma debate when that wasn't the topic. If James White wanted to debate the Marian dogma, he should have debated that instead. There are still apostolic traditions not found in the Bible which protestants recognize, Jimmy identified 4 and James White only interacted with that argument when forced to during cross examination.
I've got a serious question that, as far as I know, never gets brought up in these debates. How could Christians conceive scripture alone as completely sufficient when for the vast majority of Christian history the average man could not read or get access the the number of copies of the Bible we have today? if the Bible was indented to be taken alone, traditions rejected and the church had no authority to teach the Bible then how could anyone except a very few educated people ever come to learn it?
Many of them think the world started in 1960. The smarter ones think the world started in 1517
Exactly
Good point
The simple solution is public reading of the Bible by those who are able.
@@fortknox4740 And that is what in fact happened...by Catholic Priests...I guess my point is that the common man needed to be able to trust what was being read and who was reading it.
What incredible objectivity for a Protestant church to host a debate and tell the faithful to come to their own conclusions. True faith should not fear controversy. Amazing
I don't think James really engaged or refuted Jimmy's very straightforward argument. James agrees sola scriptura is a doctrine, and thus needs to be in scripture. But then also agrees that sola scriptura wasn't the paradigm until at least the second century which means it could not have been possible for it to have been taught in the New Testament. This seems to be a simply logical defeater of James' thesis, I don't see any alternatives out of it.
Yup. It's like I say: If your hermeneutic precludes the first several generations of Christians, it might be time to rethink things.
And not even in the second century, the bible was not finished until the five century (councils) so what happened in those 400 years? nobody entered heaven? lol no, not even the thief at the cross "needed it"
@@dezlovecraft5247to be fair St. Dismas was granted paradise, not heaven that day. Christ wouldn't open the gates of heaven as seen in Daniel 7 until the Ascension 43 days later.
@@dezlovecraft5247
The status of a book as scripture is determined by GOD
The premisse were clear. You cannot gave doctrine that opposes to bible. And Pastor White used as examples those false doctrines such purgatory and mariology cannot be accepted. Also, he said over and over "Jesus used the Scriptures as secure and supreme fount of knowledge of God's will".
Thank God for James White. Because of him, I’m now a convert from the man-made Protestant religion to the Church Jesus established 🇻🇦
Amen! I love it!
Welcome home! God bless you
Amen brother 💪🇻🇦✝️
Same here I honestly thank James White for all he's done for helping me learn and through his debates with Catholics i saw how I had to come back home.
Thank God for our former episcopal minister who revealed she didn’t really believe the Bible was true and from the top down the episcopal church leadership condones, promotes, and even celebrates sins, such as; adultery via divorce/remarriage, murder via abortion/a woman’s right to choose, and homosexuality with many of the episcopal ministry in same sex relationships.
Thank you for hosting this debate! I think it is beneficial for all people. I'm a Catholic and unofficial student of Jimmy Akin!!! But thank you for hosting, God bless 🙌 🙏
Fancy meeting you here Tillo. Blessings friend (I hope)
Indeed good on them
His student? So,so, let's see... Does Jim live in a western saloon or at the top of a mountain?
@@djpodesta howdy 🖐
More than 20 years I was a protestant and studied to become a pastor . Left all and became a catholic and I indeed found Jesus in holy communion.
Christ is within me, is he in you, or just an act?
Welcome home
Blessed Sacrament🙏 How amazing🩵
Dear@@DouglasMcCall, as a Catholic literally takes the risen Body of Jesus into the heart and soul ("becoming like the One consumed" as the ancients used to say), yes, we can know that Christ is within us. Even if we do not feel Him there.
Even if we feel the desolation Christ Himself felt as He asked "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"
Is not the Holy Spirit already doing this with Him in us and us in Him?
As a Protestant, very disappointed in James. His case was 90% “nuh uh” and “but Catholics say Mary was assumed into heaven” which was irrelevant. The question was not about papal infallibility, or Catholic doctrines. It was about sola scriptura.
Everything you described is classic James White.
@@TruthHasSpoken I notice it more and more. He’s incredibly intelligent. But scripture says “knowledge puffs up” Intelligent, but too prideful in his intelligence.
@@joshuafeezor1304 You may not know, that after listening to her brother debate, Patti Bonds converted to Catholicism. th-cam.com/video/6KHgLzu_nbw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=L5YV7UB4HTwV0aFN
@@joshuafeezor1304 Here's a great video .... an amateur Catholic apologist and James White. th-cam.com/video/bF_Iwuh2IUw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=9CxMrid2DYM2EK8K
All apostolic churches believe that Mary, after her dormition Christ did take her body with him.
Catholics (western and eastern)
Eastern Orthodox
Oriental orthodox
Syrian church of the east hold this.
It’s only the Protestants that don’t
Crazy how James White keeps appealing to his debate numbers as if they mean he won or something.
It is a sophist technique and suggests an insecurity in his position.
So is overloading, which he absolutely did. The point of the debate is to talk about the topic not add new topics that the other person has no time to address. It poisons the well.
James White's debates are well known because it has helped so many come back to the Apostolic Faith.
"Experience informs us that the first defense of weak minds is to recriminate."
Samuel Taylor Coleridge
James White: I can't support or demonstrate the topic of the debate "Sola Scriptura", so let's talk about Pope Francis, Mary's assumption and Trent Horn.
Trent living in his head rent free😂
Yeah because you know the Catholic Church's claims of authority are never to be questioned or defended...
Honestly i dont like the way this person James White throws/answers questions.
Thumbs up to Jimmy Akin for being so calm ❤️
So is James’s argument that because Mary’s assumption is false sola scriptoria is true.
Sounds like he’s tired of debating sola scriptoria and wants to debate Catholic marian beliefs. LOL
James' error is much worse than that: He's arguing that a Marian dogma is unbiblical, therefore you should believe in the Bible alone! It's assuming his own conclusion. He would have to prove without the Bible that the Marian dogmas were wrong to illustrate the proof by contradiction he is trying to use, but he would only undercut his own position by doing so. James is, unfortunately, not skilled at Aristotelian logic, which is weird for a guy who could read Aristotle in the original language.
Mary’s assumption is supported by scripture together with known surrounding facts and culture.
thanks for putting it like this, really accurate
@@Joker22593 Was Aristotle Koine, or was he Ancient Greek? 🤔🤔🧐
Then he'd have a tough time arguing against EO. Since they believe in the dormition of Mary.
I am a former protestant pastor who has returned to the Catholic faith and have re-entered into Gods peace and rest as a servant
welcome home, brother
my guy absolutely crushed the other guy
😂
Same 😮
the perfect commend has arrived.
😂😂
HE ABSOLUTELY OBLITERATED HIM
This debate filled me with true, profound sadness realizing how many lies are believed by the Protestants about Christianity, as it has been lived and passed down by the one and only Catholic Church for two thousand years. I pray and hope for the reunification of Christians all over the world, that those fallen away may return home. God love you ❤
You worship a false Jesus who cannot save you, you believe you literally eat him to sacrifice him thousands of times a day because his crucifixion wasn't enough nor perfect, then you pray to Mary, call her the first sinless human being before Jesus Christ and make Jesus subservient to her and her whims. You're in idolatry and a slave to the corruption of Rome, you do not follow Christ, as Jesus says time and time and time and time again what you must do to be saved, is to believe and catholics add like 50 extra things to earn, lose, gain, regain and literally sell salvation and somehow you side with catholicism because they said "we are the true church because we have the authority to claim that"
Praise God for the gift of our Holy Catholic Faith. Thank u Jimmy!
The more James White debates, the more Catholic conversions he will help foster among the increasing number of protestants who are open to considering the Catholic Faith. I watched all of White’s debates with Catholics in order to help me avoid converting. They did the opposite-and the reasons why are abundantly obvious in this debate as well.
Amen 🙏
Please what a joke
just don't pray to those who passed away, or someone might answer.
Could you articulate one or two of those reasons for your conversion? What makes you trust tradition over God’s Word?
So are you saying that you now no longer believe in justification through faith but subscribe to sacramentalism?
I think Dr. White has forgotten about the Orthodox. Scary Rome argument doesn’t really work against the fact that there are other Apostolic Traditions. He needs to realise no one taught sola scripture for 1500 years and it isn’t just Rome he is debating.
As a catholic living in a community that has several orthodox communities, I deeply appreciate your perspective, it’s always bothered me that so many of the “anti-catholic” positions are also anti-orthodox, but that never gets brought up and contended with.
What if I'm scared by Orthodox "magicians" also? Check made.
@@coolcatbaron scared, or scarred? I have so many questions. So many.
Lol that's a very uninformed comment. Rome and Constantinople both claim to be the only true Apostolic church, and their traditions are different. Either only one of them is right, or James is right
@@marverb5 Both Catholics and Eastern Orthodox reject Sola Scriptura. So no, it's Protestants vs basically every other Christian denomination on this issue.
Well, I am not saying that James is wrong at 43:26, But St Augustine did believe in the Seat of Peter. Here is one of many examples.:“For if the lineal succession of bishops is to be taken into account, with how much more certainty and benefit to the Church do we reckon back till we reach Peter himself, to whom, as bearing in a figure the whole Church, the Lord said: ‘Upon this rock will I build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it !’ The successor of Peter was Linus, and his successors in unbroken continuity were these: - Clement, Anacletus, Evaristus, Alexander, Sixtus, Telesphorus, Iginus, Anicetus, Pius, Soter, Eleutherius, Victor, Zephirinus, Calixtus, Urbanus, Pontianus, Antherus, Fabianus, Cornelius, Lucius, Stephanus, Xystus, Dionysius, Felix, Eutychianus, Gaius, Marcellinus, Marcellus, Eusebius, Miltiades, Sylvester, Marcus, Julius, Liberius, Damasus, and Siricius, whose successor is the present Bishop Anastasius. In this order of succession no Donatist bishop is found. But, reversing the natural course of things, the Donatists sent to Rome from Africa an ordained bishop, who, putting himself at the head of a few Africans in the great metropolis, gave some notoriety to the name of ‘mountain men,’ or Cutzupits, by which they were known.”
To Generosus, Epistle 53:2(A.D. 400), in NPNF1,I:298
Amazing find. Thank you for sharing
Here’s another where he mentions the Seat of Peter:
“For in the Catholic Church, not to speak of the purest wisdom, to the knowledge of which a few spiritual men attain in this life, so as to know it, in the scantiest measure, indeed, because they are but men, still without any uncertainty (since the rest of the multitude derive their entire security not from acuteness of intellect, but from simplicity of faith,)- not to speak of this wisdom, which you do not believe to be in the Catholic Church, there are many other things which most justly keep me in her bosom. The consent of peoples and nations keeps me in the Church; so does her authority, inaugurated by miracles, nourished by hope, enlarged by love, established by age. The succession of priests keeps me, beginning from the very seat of the Apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after His resurrection, gave it in charge to feed His sheep, down to the present episcopate. And so, lastly, does the name itself of Catholic, which, not without reason, amid so many heresies, the Church has thus retained; so that, though all heretics wish to be called Catholics, yet when a stranger asks where the Catholic Church meets, no heretic will venture to point to his own chapel or house. Such then in number and importance are the precious ties belonging to the Christian name which keep a believer in the Catholic Church, as it is right they should, though from the slowness of our understanding, or the small attainment of our life, the truth may not yet fully disclose itself. But with you, where there is none of these things to attract or keep me, the promise of truth is the only thing that comes into play. Now if the truth is so clearly proved as to leave no possibility of doubt, it must be set before all the things that keep me in the Catholic Church; but if there is only a promise without any fulfillment, no one shall move me from the faith which binds my mind with ties so many and so strong to the Christian religion.”
James lied multiple times in this debate. He cannot be trusted, you've just shown an example of him falsely claiming something that St. Augustine believed when he didn't. Another example is when the he brings up the example of Pope Honorius claiming that because he was excommunicated no one believed in Papal infallibility even though that same exact council AFFIRMS papal infallibility with Pope Agatho's letter which was read allowed and accepted completely by all present at the 6th ecumenical council. There are just two examples of him baring false witness or at the very least excluding context to work for his agenda. Anyone who knows about history knows that James told multiple lies. John 8:44 seems to me what James is following. Not the truth.
@@SevereFamine Just because Augustine believed that (I concede I don't know one way or another) doesn't mean the belief was shared amongst the Apostles or the early church. Without a solid scriptural basis (God's word) it's irrelevant to the body's well-being what Augustine believed if his beliefs were in error and detached from God's instruction, the Word.
They replace the office vacated by Judas death. It remains the way today
@JimmyAkin didn't let himself get carried away by emotions. What a rock! 🪨
Jimmy Akins lost this debate handily. He had no answers and only assumptions he can’t prove. Akin is a talented debater, but he can’t defend a position that is indefensible. White won easily because the truth is it’s own defense
Lmao uh huh. Tell me, give me one verse, where the Bible teaches sola scriptura, since you think Akin lost badly. Show me one Church Father that taught sola scriptura. Go ahead and bring up Augustine, so i can show you how he definitely favored the Catholic Church.
@@SaltyApologist James White needs to appeal to scripture to prove that it is the sole infallible authority. This is logically absurd. And even if scripture was a single book and that book claimed to be the only source of authority then you ought to be very suspicious of it. Authority comes from God alone, not from text in a book. Scripture is authoritative because God said it is...orally!
@@wordforever117
Its a debate between catholicism and protestants it needs to be theologicly sound.
Logic employed by us temperal beings is always falling short.
Likewise is depending on traditions.
Especially if you like Akin drag in others that do not hold to the same traditions at all.
The idea of Sola scriptura is indeed under the Sola Christus is His God breathed word the Bible.
@@Eskon2 It is logically absurd!! Ok example... Jesus said "blessed are the poor in spirit, for they shall see God"
That is the Word of God. Question: Was it the Word of God when Mathew wrote it down? Or was it the Word of God when Jesus actually said it?
Congratulations and thank you to Pastor Brian Gunter and FBC Livingston, LA for this courageous and well-run debate!
Thank you Mr. White, because of your arguments or lack of it, made me consider going back to the Catholic faith.
Time to go back home. 🙏
Good for you! Welcome home!
Catholics equate Mary and the Saints to God. They say and/or imply that they are omnipresent, which is an attribute that only God has. Please don't fall for it, they have false gods and a very false doctrine.
I made the jump last year. Will never step inside a protestant church again.
Billy, we welcome you with open arms, and pray that one day, we "may all be one as" Jesus and the Father are one (John 17). I pray that the Lord use you to draw many others like you back into the one and only Church that Jesus Christ himself founded. I think we are witnessing a tidal wave of conversions brought about by the Internet. It is no longer possible to claim that the Catholic Church teaches something when one can easily research to discover what the teaching actually says and means. That is why White's scare tactics just feel so dated and tired. What may have worked in the 80s simply doesn't pass muster today. Anyway, praise be to God. God's grace saves us as individuals and it protects and guides Jesus's Bride through the power of the Holy Spirit. Come, Lord Jesus!
Good debate. If we are voting on the winner, my vote goes for Akin.
Why?
I woud vote for James White.
@@DouglasMcCall because he is catholic
Jimmy Akin is a blessing to us all. Praying for all to come “home” to the Catholic Church.
Dear@Aaabbblllls, I have often told God in prayer that I do not understand Him. He is beyond the capacity of the human mind to comprehend.
Truth is like that. Beyond us.
James White does not understand the heights and depths of Catholic teaching. The Holy Spirit is revealing more of it every day. God Alone is our Guide and Advocate.
@@susand3668Anyone that has the name "HellStar" I wouldn't give a moment of credibility to!
Dear@@gleeberger8966 , some of the names people give themselves are deeply ironic. As I am tone-deaf to irony or sarcasm (I used to be good at it, but I lost my taste for the game, so now...) I am a perfect straightman.
Akins is a liar first class. he has to in order to justify catholic dogma. Oh, and sweep away child molestation by catholic men in costumes.
Jimmy Akin was great, this guy inspires me to study the Bible more and become a stronger Catholic 🙏🙏
CHRISTIAN
The Greek word Χριστιανός (Christianos), meaning "follower of Christ", comes from Χριστός (Christos), meaning "anointed one",
FOLLOWERS of the TEACHINGS of Christ!!!
Written 2000 years ago! NOT my interpretation!!!
>>>
A Christian (/ˈkrɪstʃən, -tiən/) is a person who follows or adheres to Christianity, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.
--And NO CATHOLIC follows Christ and HIS Teachings!!
I suggest you ask yourself: Is this what Christ taught???
>>
FACTS:
#1--Christ NEVER taught that Peter is a pope.-(where is the title Pope in the Bible?)
#2--Christ NEVER taught that Mary will go to heaven. (Where does the bible say Mary will go/has gone to heaven?)
#3--Christ NEVER taught that Mary is a mediator/intercessor. (Where does the bible say Mary is a mediator?
#4--Christ NEVER taught that Mary never sinned. (Where in the bible does it state Mary never sinned?)
#5--Christ NEVER taught that Mary remained virgin. (Where in the bible does it state Mary remained a virgin?)
#6--Christ NEVER Taught that a mere man is head of His church. (Where is the Bible does it state a mere man is head of Christ's church?)
#7--Christ NEVER taught about a church named Catholic. (Where in the Bible is a church named Catholic mentioned?)
#8--Christ NEVER taught that we can pray to the dead.-(Where is the bible does it state we can pray to the dead?)
#9--Christ NEVER taught that the dead can hear our prayers. (Where in the bible does it state the dead can hear our prayers
#10--Christ NEVER taught that anyone can change the day of worship . (Where in the Bible does IT STATE GOD changed the day of worship to Sunday?)
#11--Christ NEVER taught to confess to a "priest". (Where in the Bible does it state we are to confess our sins to a Priest?)
#12--Christ NEVER Taught a priest can forgive your sins. (Where in the Bible does it state a priest can forgive our sins
#13--Christ NEVER taught salvation is through a church..(Where is the bible does it state our salvation comes from a church
#14--Christ NEVER taught to pray to, or with beads!!! (Where in the bile does it state we are to use/pray to beads?)
#15--Christ NEVER started a church named Catholic!!! (Where in the Bible does it mention a church named Catholic?)
#16--Christ never said to confess your sins to a priest.
James White tries to bait his opponents . His arguments are all over the place. Almost all of his arguments are sensational attacks on subjects that have nothing to do with sola Scriptura .
Yeah a person with a functional brain would notice his baiting.
Truth. He does well in some areas to defend his sixteenth century beliefs, in others the vein in his head looks like it's going to explode any time he isn't getting the rise he's looking for
Baiting is to expose hypocrisy in a debate.. Thanks for learning something new..
that was my thought exactly
Yeah, it's James White being James White. I can't help but giggle every time he says "Theopneustos" and "Gerry Matatics ". Cracks me up.
Wow what a burial, Jimmy Akin knew that James White would regurgitate the same arguments he has been arguing since the 90s
And summed up those arguments at the beginning and refuted them
Well put
That was powerful in the cross examination segment. Mr. White repeatedly asked questions to Mr. Akin, and Mr. Akin repeatedly rebuked him, the 4th time around Mr. Akin looked to crowd knowingly and then repeated that we were talking about a supposed thing in the future not something that has happened.
Mr. Akin, you did an excellent job presenting your beliefs.
Jimmy Akin’s the Fathers Know Best is a great book organized by topic and date on what the Church Fathers really believed, wonderful book.
Who cares what catholic church fathers believed? They are mouth pieces of the CC. Of course they are going to say its great. The millions of ruined childrens lives by dirty filthy cathoic costume holymen tell another story. Maybe the billions of statues the catholics get on their knees and pray to will save them on the great and terrible day of the Lord.
Sounds authentic!
FACTS:
#1--Christ NEVER taught that Peter is a pope.-(where is the title Pope in the Bible?)
#2--Christ NEVER taught that Mary will go to heaven. (Where does the bible say Mary will go/has gone to heaven?)
#3--Christ NEVER taught that Mary is a mediator/intercessor. (Where does the bible say Mary is a mediator?
#4--Christ NEVER taught that Mary never sinned. (Where in the bible does it state Mary never sinned?)
#5--Christ NEVER taught that Mary remained virgin. (Where in the bible does it state Mary remained a virgin?)
#6--Christ NEVER Taught that a mere man is head of His church. (Where is the Bible does it state a mere man is head of Christ's church?)
#7--Christ NEVER taught about a church named Catholic. (Where in the Bible is a church named Catholic mentioned?)
#8--Christ NEVER taught that we can pray to the dead.-(Where is the bible does it state we can pray to the dead?)
#9--Christ NEVER taught that the dead can hear our prayers. (Where in the bible does it state the dead can hear our prayers
#10--Christ NEVER taught that anyone can change the day of worship . (Where in the Bible does IT STATE GOD changed the day of worship to Sunday?)
#11--Christ NEVER taught to confess to a "priest". (Where in the Bible does it state we are to confess our sins to a Priest?)
#12--Christ NEVER Taught a priest can forgive your sins. (Where in the Bible does it state a priest can forgive our sins
#13--Christ NEVER taught salvation is through a church..(Where is the bible does it state our salvation comes from a church
#14--Christ NEVER taught to pray to, or with beads!!! (Where in the bile does it state we are to use/pray to beads?)
#15--Christ NEVER started a church named Catholic!!! (Where in the Bible does it mention a church named Catholic?)
#16--Christ never said to confess your sins to a priest.
@@mitchellosmer1293 Show me where the apostles say their few letters show the totality of christian doctrine and is contained therein
@@jlouis4407 quote----Show me where the apostles say their few letters show the totality of christian doctrine and is contained therein... unquote
Few letters??What???
How many apostolic letters are in the Bible?
Of the twenty-seven books of the New Testament, twenty-one are letters (about thirty-five percent of the New Testament): thirteen authored by the apostle Paul, two by the apostle Peter, one by James the brother of Jesus, and one by Jude the brother of James.
35% of the NT!!!!!
----
Really beautiful that Jimmy standed and took his hat off for the prayer at the end. It shows that Catholics give great respect to prayers said in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ!
We even stand when the Gospel is read at EVERY Mass.
The whole outfit was un-needed, deliberate attention. I think that taking his hat off during the (video recorded) prayer, although traditionally appropriate, brought even more unnecessary attention towards himself when all attention should have been directed towards God.
@@toutestdit1646 that’s how he dresses basically all the time.
Did anyone else notice James would rather refer to the Church as Rome when he could have said Roman Catholic Church? It shows he doesn't believe the Catholic Church is a church. Interestingly, catholics have always considered Protestants as Christians.
God bless Jimmy and James White. While I don't agree with James White's position, or his rhethoric, I apprechiate the openness to dialogue.
Return the slab.
James White is a jerk. If not for his pride, he’d submit to the Church.
If I learnt something, it was to talk politely with calmness and maintaining composure. Thank you so much Jimmy. It was a delight to listen to you. I learned a lot.
Such debates are a great opportunity to learn so much about the true faith.
FACTS:
#1--Christ NEVER taught that Peter is a pope.-(where is the title Pope in the Bible?)
#2--Christ NEVER taught that Mary will go to heaven. (Where does the bible say Mary will go/has gone to heaven?)
#3--Christ NEVER taught that Mary is a mediator/intercessor. (Where does the bible say Mary is a mediator?
#4--Christ NEVER taught that Mary never sinned. (Where in the bible does it state Mary never sinned?)
#5--Christ NEVER taught that Mary remained virgin. (Where in the bible does it state Mary remained a virgin?)
#6--Christ NEVER Taught that a mere man is head of His church. (Where is the Bible does it state a mere man is head of Christ's church?)
#7--Christ NEVER taught about a church named Catholic. (Where in the Bible is a church named Catholic mentioned?)
#8--Christ NEVER taught that we can pray to the dead.-(Where is the bible does it state we can pray to the dead?)
#9--Christ NEVER taught that the dead can hear our prayers. (Where in the bible does it state the dead can hear our prayers
#10--Christ NEVER taught that anyone can change the day of worship . (Where in the Bible does IT STATE GOD changed the day of worship to Sunday?)
#11--Christ NEVER taught to confess to a "priest". (Where in the Bible does it state we are to confess our sins to a Priest?)
#12--Christ NEVER Taught a priest can forgive your sins. (Where in the Bible does it state a priest can forgive our sins
#13--Christ NEVER taught salvation is through a church..(Where is the bible does it state our salvation comes from a church
#14--Christ NEVER taught to pray to, or with beads!!! (Where in the bile does it state we are to use/pray to beads?)
#15--Christ NEVER started a church named Catholic!!! (Where in the Bible does it mention a church named Catholic?)
#16--Christ never said to confess your sins to a priest.
After the debate everyone can stand in line to register for RCIA. Welcome Home!
😂 sorry but i LOL! Yes, please...
Welcome home to Rome. Dont mind the maggots.
Glory to God! For such a clear cut message. Dr. James White has helped save many souls....
Catholic here. Thank you for hosting this debate and posting it on TH-cam.
Live truth, live Catholic!
FACTS:
#1--Christ NEVER taught that Peter is a pope.-(where is the title Pope in the Bible?)
#2--Christ NEVER taught that Mary will go to heaven. (Where does the bible say Mary will go/has gone to heaven?)
#3--Christ NEVER taught that Mary is a mediator/intercessor. (Where does the bible say Mary is a mediator?
#4--Christ NEVER taught that Mary never sinned. (Where in the bible does it state Mary never sinned?)
#5--Christ NEVER taught that Mary remained virgin. (Where in the bible does it state Mary remained a virgin?)
#6--Christ NEVER Taught that a mere man is head of His church. (Where is the Bible does it state a mere man is head of Christ's church?)
#7--Christ NEVER taught about a church named Catholic. (Where in the Bible is a church named Catholic mentioned?)
#8--Christ NEVER taught that we can pray to the dead.-(Where is the bible does it state we can pray to the dead?)
#9--Christ NEVER taught that the dead can hear our prayers. (Where in the bible does it state the dead can hear our prayers
#10--Christ NEVER taught that anyone can change the day of worship . (Where in the Bible does IT STATE GOD changed the day of worship to Sunday?)
#11--Christ NEVER taught to confess to a "priest". (Where in the Bible does it state we are to confess our sins to a Priest?)
#12--Christ NEVER Taught a priest can forgive your sins. (Where in the Bible does it state a priest can forgive our sins
#13--Christ NEVER taught salvation is through a church..(Where is the bible does it state our salvation comes from a church
#14--Christ NEVER taught to pray to, or with beads!!! (Where in the bile does it state we are to use/pray to beads?)
#15--Christ NEVER started a church named Catholic!!! (Where in the Bible does it mention a church named Catholic?)
#16--Christ never said to confess your sins to a priest.
Jimmy Akin is a very gracious man. Just comes across like a very nice person.
Jimmy seems very arrogant to me. Kinda reminds me of an atheist. James seems very proud
@@fredrosas2575No Jimmy doesn't. It's called confidence and manners. Usually, people who don't have manners are offended by them. A suspicious mind isn't the mind of Christ
@@joea8842 "a suspicious mind isn't the mind of Christ". Where did you get that from? Man, I hope you are not in charge of anything important.
@@joea8842I’m pretty sure Jesus was humble, taught to be humble, and didn’t come off as arrogant.
Let God judge their hearts. None of you can know the secrets of the heart or why they sound the way they do. I can appear humble when I am as proud as a peacock.
Let's us not be distracted from what they are presenting.
Thank you FBC Livingston, LA for making the debate available for to us.
Jimmy Akin did commendable job by providing real examples
Much love from Malawi, the warm heart of African
Beware of a cult from the philippines that scamming your people in Malawi. Iglesia ni Christo( church of christ) owned by a Family manalo.
James white is the greatest evangelist for Catholicism
Hm. I think John MacArthur is right up there!
He was predestined to be so! 😆
@@dustinburwell7693 -- And let anyone who disagrees be anathema!
James Whites debate against Patrick Madrid on sola scriptura actually led me to come out of Protestantism. I’m currently looking into information on Orthodoxy and Catholicism so pray God guides me through this time.
@@stevenirizarry9427have you find peace in God as per Romans 5:1-2 or you are destined to be tossed every wind of doctrine?
This is probably one of my favorite debates I’ve seen. Great job to both speakers.
PS: my man Jimmy killed it 😎
Jimmy is such a treasure. He brought me to the Catholic Church.
Brought you to hell, wake up go to Jesus Christ
James White is a better Catholic apologist than Jimmy is
Did we watch the same debate? White literally claims that he wasn't "overloading" even though right after claiming that he says "purgatory, Marian dogmas, papal infallibility" when this debate is not about any of those. James was very dishonest as well, especially when he claimed that no one believed in papal infallibility because of Pope Honorius without including the context that the same exact council taught that all previous Popes (including Honorius) never taught heresy and cannot based on the promise of Christ which was completely affirmed by all attending. Please read the 6th ecumenical council and Pope Agatho's letter which was presented at the council and read allowed to all present and affirmed by all present. James simply lied.
White didn’t even go into the topic of the debate. His entire argument was a red herring because instead of trying to disprove the necessity of an infallible tradition he instead goes to attack Catholic tradition.
@@YaksoHDI think he was being funny. I commented something similar. 😂
@@John_Six So hard to tell sarcasm online lol especially in comments section. Thanks for the clarification!
@@YaksoHD lol yeah there is no way OP is being serious.
Why does James White always say, "Roman?" Doesn't he realize "Roman Catholic" is only one type of Catholic? There are a bunch of different Catholic Rites, with the Roman Rite being only one of them
I don’t think James White is referring to the Roman rite. When we call ourselves ‘Roman Catholics,’ it refers to submitting to the authority of the Bishop of Rome, also known as the Pope, Roman Pontiff, Patriarch of the West, etc. Catholics who attend the other eastern rites are also Roman Catholics.
but all these rites submit to Rome happily or begrudgingly.
I think he wants to Demonize us a bit. Ties us to the Romans... those that did the actual crucifiction. Because, in this mind if he just says Catholics, it just doesn't have that punch.
But just a tiny opinion here.
@AgnusDeiX Makes sense. Different senses of the same word.
I think he's trying to poison the well since Jesus was technically sentenced to death by the Romans.
James White is arrogant and has a long way to go. I am not Roman Catholic. I am not a Protestant either. Jimmy Aken has my respect he always has. He is a very smart man who seems to love the truth as far as I can tell. Glory to God for all things! ✝️☦️✝️
Weak arguments by James... Bringing Mother of our Lord Jesus in Debate just to prove his point not even the topic...
James exposed the whole protestantism position.
They always run to Mary, the pope, Magisterium, works, etc. etc. when they can't answer you.
@eucharistangel4662 🤣🤣🤣
The context of him bringing Mary and those doctrines up was Mr. Akins appeal to apostolic tradition so that presents fair game for Mr. White to argue that those doctrines are later developments not part of the apostolic teaching/tradition.
Catholics offend God by making idols of worshipping and praying to dead humans.
@@Adam-ue2ig Thank you. Someone in this comment thread gets it.
And how can I, unless some man shew me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
[Acts of Apostles 8:31]
Yes, let the Pope, bishop. Church guide us, amen.
(CCC 85, 100)
Why is it so hard to understand that Jesus is King? His kingdom is not of this world. We’re all temporary in this world. Jesus is King. He told Pilate. Jesus is King therefore, Jesus has a Kingdom. Jesus is King of the Universe. He left the keys to Peter, now Peter died, Peter will have a successor.
Mary is in Heaven, same as you believe that you will go to heaven if you are a loyal follower of Christ and without sin.
We are so lucky we have the Catholic Church all over the world uphelding the true teachings of Jesus. To be holy and make sacrifices and to love the other children of God. We are all sinners and keep making mistakes, but that is well understood. Jesus said He will judge you at the end, same as He will separate the sheeps from the goats. He said to eat His Body and He will live in us. He said for the Apostles “Peace be with you, the sins you forgive will be forgiven.” Dr. James White keeps saying sola scriptura but he doesn’t even believe in the teachings of Jesus. I feel like he’s the one misleading people away from the Kingdom of God.
There are wayyy to many scriptures that speak to us that say that we should remain in the Word of God alone... one of my favorites
Matthew 4:4
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Live on the scriptures!
Jimmy akin has the upperhand in this debate..this will bring more conversion....Ave Maria...
You could be right in that there will be conversions from Protestantism to Catholicism. The greater issue you are ignoring is that according to most data, Christianity is dying.
@@KennethRaupachChristianity is dying ?😂 it’s not a music genre buddy at one stage there was only 12 believing people alive during Moses time think about that one
Thank you Jimmy for that wonderful and clearly expalination,I love being a Catholic praise be Jesus Christ.. God bless you.hope many protestant fully understand and embrace the Catholic faith.
I converted from generic protestant churches to the one holy and apostolic Catholic Church several years ago. James White just confirmed I made the right choice.
You guys are all copy pasting the same comment that James white made you catholic. Is that a tacit admission that the other guy did poorly and was himself not convincing enough?
I don't know why I even listened to these two characters but I had a long drive. Honestly I don't know the catholic guy but White I've heard and don't agree with his theology but he did fine in defense for Christianity. Catholic beliefs about the sacraments, the roles of the Bible and tradition, the importance of the Virgin Mary and the saints, and the papacy are contrary to what I know to be Christianity. I find way too much idolatry going on & justified. If you visit the vatican will you see any scripture on the walls? No, just statues and paintings and many are quite evil. Does this explain why the catholic church does not really support the Word? History showed us they didn't want us to have it & after the reformation they tried to smooth that one out. Mary, the rosary, the eucharist and the complete love for the church baffles me. The other stuff is not scriptural but man made the dedication to the church is more idolatry. The Church is the body of Christ not a building or particular denomination. We have always had false churches as we still do today. I have left a certain denomination after the Lord matured me in His knowledge of the Word. If I was a catholic & realized it was wrong where would I go? They claim it's the only church, I'd have to submit & justify it's wrongs. What I have is God the only Father through Jesus Christ who sits hand of the Father and has sent me his Holy Spirit. I have Christ in me & I in him because of that. The precious blood of Jesus Christ on that mercy seat is the blood of the final sacrafice. I can enter into the throne room of God now & make my petitions known, I don't need a church to do that, I don't need a man of flesh to do that for me, I won't give that to a priest, Jesus Christ was the last & final priest, God's Word is now written down by the power of God, He & He alone has made that happen. We are destroyed for a lack of knowledge so "I" will stay in His Word & constantly study it as lead by the Holy Spirit. I will also hear the Word of God by a pastor & preacher that I believe we're called. No traditions to follow except what is written and when something is said & done outside what is written it is time to Protest & leave. Unlike you I don't make choices on a single man especially when I have the Word, the Lord & husband Spirit. Especially could I not run to the catholic church that has not only bad history but doctrines of men & some I believe are doctrines of demons. I realize their is the human characteristic of those who prefer to be led, those who rather submit to man rather than God. In order to do that we need to have the ability to want to think for ourselves with the Holy Spirit. The man made doctrine of the justification of Mary should alert you. They claim Mary is not their mediator but they always go to Mary first especially the women. The way y'all adorn the statue, that doesn't tell you something? And what does that do to Christ, leaving him back there for later? The weak minded will always flow to something of the flesh or evil that will do all the work & thinking for them
There are over 240 catholic churches..
@@marioforieri8529 There is one Catholic church that umbrellas different rites, I can go to a Byzantine or Latin rite and still be in communion.
I feel sorry for you. Some people just can't stand the truth
James White so clearly has personal hate towards the Catholic Church. It comes out in these debates and does not help his side at all.
Well it helps to get the other anti-Catholics all fired up, like the host church. Did you notice that the moderator put in a plug for sharing the Baptist faith with the Catholics? Pretty cheeky.
Yeah because he wants to be the authority
I do too. It's because a different gospel is presented by the catholic church.
If you studied your Bible, you would see this.
The church sacrifices Jesus in mass weekly. This is abhorrent and blasphemous. Jesus died once for all and His righteousness placed upon us to present us holy before God. This is clearly written in Romans and seen throughout the Bible. The catholic church do not believe this.
"Blessed is the man whose sins are forgiven; whose transgressions the Lord will never count against him."(Romans 4:7, 8).
"we have been made holy through the sacrifice of Jesus body once for all.
Day after day the priest offers the same sacrifices that can never take away sins." Hebrews 10:10- 14
@@vaekkriinhart4347 First, you should not hate another Christian brother/sister. We should pray for others. A different Gospel is not presented by the Church. Please read John 6, Jesus does not describe his body as a symbol to be offered up. We practice the Mass today the same way that the earliest Christians did. The offering of the Eucharist is the new passover and new covenant which is shown in The Last Supper as well. The Old Testament directly correlates to the New Testament.
@@garrettwilliams6396
Right. If it’s just a symbol, why bother? Anglican here.
“The lie lives until the truth shows up “ - Pardre Luis Toro
Thank you Jimmy Akin!
John 17:17
“Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.”
King James Version (KJV)
Jesus is truth right? I'm sure you know. Add that to the last verse I'm the gospel of john. I'd like you to seek what it says on your own but most people don't like doing that though it's seeking truth. The last verse is " Even though Jesus said and did many more things, I suppose not every book could be written of the things he said or did. " not every truth is written about Jesus nor his about his ministry. But Jesus reveals truth. So its not lost to us. And bow its not a tie and Solas scripture got utterly destroyed.
@jakeh2848 If Jesus is the truth and you cannot know what is NOT written about Him, then OBVIOUSLY, the ONLY way to infallibly KNOW ANYTHING Jesus said or did or TAUGHT is by the God-breathed holy Scriptures. Scripture alone is without error and without any illogical contradiction. The councils of churches can and often did err and make irrational contradictions. Unwritten traditions morph over time and are mutable. God's written words never change over time. They are forever settled in heaven and cannot be broken. Psalm 119:89; John 10:35; Matthew 10:17ff KJV
@@jakeh2848 Which Jesus? The one the papists made up? Or the Jesus written about by Paul? 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 KJV. See also Galatians 1:6-9. KJV
Thy Word is truth. John 17:17. KJV
Excellent exchange to both James (Akin and White). Mr. Akins did as expected, he was on target and evidentiary driven. Well done. Coudos!
Magnificent exposition by Mr. Akins. Very coherent, reasonable and biblical. Mr. White will never get to fully know Christ on his postures. I'll pray for his conversion.
You must have watched a different debate.
@@1sweet_ta I am looking forward to watch night 2!
As a Catholic, prior to listening to the debate, Acts 8 gives the way that the scriptures are to be read in relation to the Church. The Ethiopian was reading the book Isaiah, the Spirit sent Philip, a leader of the church to him. The Ethiopian's words are words of humility, willing to be taught, not insisting that he will learn the truth from the text alone. This is the model scripture gives for reading the Bible, not apart from the Church, but humbly being willing to listen to it. Martin Luther's example is directly contradictory to the example laid out in Scripture, and not to be followed.
When we hear what Paul says to Timothy about scriture being profitable for teaching and correction, it isn't individuals reading and correcting themselves, it is the church's responsibility to teach and correct. The book can't respond and provide the precise answer if somebody doesn't find the necessary passage to be instructed.
The fact is, sola scriptura is the precursor to moral relativism. Prior to the reformation, the was no doubt about the truth, but after, thousands of contradicting opinions have raised enough doubt in people's minds that they are giving up any hope of knowing the truth, so the say the classic relativist line that any truth presented to them isn't true for them if they don't want to have to follow biblical morality.
Also consider that the method for becoming a biblical leader is laid out in Acts 1, the Church choses the leader, nobody gets to chose himself as leader. In the bible, the new leader is chosen, then has hands laid on him. Martin Luther's man made tradition of seizing leadership and creating a new church is contrary to the biblical example, and the divisions in protestantism are proof that it isn't biblical since we don't see such divisions within the biblical Church.
One final thought, if somebody creates a new church distinct from the church that existed from the first century, it is an attempt to create a new bride for Jesus making hime either an adulterer or a polygamist because Jesus taught that divorce and polyamory are contrary to God's plan.
😂 You don't seem to know anything about the history of the papacy. Ridiculous line of arguments.
@@MrSeedi76Where did OP mention papacy in the post?
Thanks to both men for coming out and defending their views! Both did a great job explaining their disagreements and their chain of reasoning for their position. Well done.
Based on many comments it seems that Mr. White is driving people back home to the Catholic Church. Let's keep debating and saving souls for Christ!
James White stayed on topic while Jimmy the papist was all over the place. Bait and switch is a logical fallacy.
Former “nondenominational Christian” here from Calvary Chapel in Southern California, Jimmy Akin, Tim Staples, Dr. Taylor Marshall and The Terry and Jesse Show on Virgin Most Powerful Internet Radio app helped me become a full Christian, a Catholic Christian ❤
Catholics are not Christians.
Once you understand the universal apostolic church there’s no going back
Please avoid Dr Taylor Marshall! 😢 That man is not doing Christ's work at the stage of his ministry... But welcome home!
I use to listen to TM but then I realized that he makes a living spreading gossip and heresay, so I unsubscribed. I started noticing that he would always say, “an anonymous insider at the Vatican told me X,Y, Z..” That was a red flag for me.
@@josephgoemans6948Dr Taylor Marshall is 99% spot on and he is on the same page as Terry and Jesse Romero from Virgin Most Powerful. Plus he is a fellow Protestant convert
Great debate, very informative.
Please don’t turn off the comment section!
Outstanding job Jimmy. Where is the video for night 2?
Probably tomorrow night.
The most important part of the question and answer part is to allow the question to be asked first before interrupting or snapping at the other. I didn't like how often Jimmy was interrupted. Jimmy, thank you for being patient and respectful in spite of the fact that the interruptions actually robbed you of asking the question.
Interestingly enough, James White accuses Jimmy Akin of equivocating while he simultaneously tries to assert "tradition" doesn't mean "tradition" but "the Gospel". HOW SWAY
Excellent point! I was thinking that!
I think he was saying this in the context of what is required apostolic beliefs/tradition...i.e that Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead on the third day, justification by faith etc rather than Marian dogmas or later developed traditions that were not apostolic teaching
@@Adam-ue2igfunny enough all the ancient Christians will say Mariology is apostolic tradition. Christ died and rose is just the basics
@@benedictusman1160
That's a straight lie
Wow this is awesome this pastor welcomed these two for a debate! I can’t wait to listen!
Why is James White the one defending sola scriptura? He really suck at it.
That is all the Catholics want to debate
@eucharistangel4662 Obviously. I'm not a scholar, but I can recognize that he is unable to defend the affirmative stance. "Rome bad" is not an argument in favor of the doctrine of sola scriptura, but he is not able to stick to the topic that is being debated. Sola scriptura can be false even if the roman catholic church is not the true Church.
His argument is "theopneustos" = sola scriptura. Really?
Oh my, it thought it would be bad but now I've watched this James White was absolutely destroyed. I started to feel embarrassed for him, especially in the cross examination.
43:32 Ask Cyprian? Ok.
The Unity of the Church - St. Cyprian of Carthage, 251 AD
Chapter 4
If anyone considers and examines these things, there is no need of a lengthy discussion and arguments. Proof for faith is easy in a brief statement of the truth. The Lord speaks to Peter: 'I say to thee,' He says, 'thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven, and whatever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed also in heaven.' Upon him, being one, He builds His Church, and although after His resurrection He bestows equal power upon all the Apostles, and says: 'As the Father has sent me, I also send you. Receive ye the Holy Spirit: if you forgive the sins of anyone, they will be forgiven him; if you retain the sins of anyone, they will be retained,' yet that He might display unity, He established by His authority the origin of the same unity as beginning from one. Surely the rest of the Apostles also were that which Peter was, endowed with an equal partnership of office and of power, but the beginning proceeds from unity, that the Church of Christ may be shown to be one. This one Church, also, the Holy Spirit in the Canticle of Canticles designates in the person of the Lord and says: 'One is my dove, my perfect one is but one, she is the only one of her mother, the chosen one of her that bore her.' Does he who does not hold this unity think that he holds the faith? Does he who strives against the Church and resists her think that he is in the Church, when too the blessed Apostle Paul teaches this same thing and sets forth the sacrament of unity saying: 'One body and one Spirit, one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God'?
Chapter 5
This unity we ought to hold firmly and defend, especially we bishops who watch over the Church, that we may prove that also the episcopate itself is one and undivided. Let no one deceive the brotherhood by lying; let no one corrupt the faith by a perfidious prevarication of the truth. The episcopate is one, the parts of which are held together by the individual bishops. The Church is one which with increasing fecundity extend far and wide into the multitude, just as the rays of the sun are many but the light is one, and the branches of the tree are many but the strength is one founded in its tenacious root, and, when many streams flow from one source, although a multiplicity of waters seems to have been diffused from the abundance of the overflowing supply nevertheless unity is preserved in their origin. Take away a ray of light from the body of the sun, its unity does not take on any division of its light; break a branch from a tree, the branch thus broken will not be able to bud; cut off a stream from its source, the stream thus cut off dries up. Thus too the Church bathed in the light of the Lord projects its rays over the whole world, yet there is one light which is diffused everywhere, and the unity of the body is not separated. She extends her branches over the whole earth in fruitful abundance; she extends her richly flowing streams far and wide; yet her head is one, and her source is one, and she is the one mother copious in the results of her fruitfulness. By her womb we are born; by her milk we are nourished; by her spirit we are animated.
Chapter 6
The spouse of Christ cannot be defiled; she is uncorrupted and chaste. She knows one home, with chaste modesty she guards the sanctity of one couch. She keeps us for God; she assigns the children whom she has created to the kingdom. Whoever is separated from the Church and is joined with an adulteress is separated from the promises of the Church, nor will he who has abandoned the Church arrive at the rewards of Christ. He is a stranger; he is profane; he is an enemy. He cannot have God as a father who does not have the Church as a mother. If whoever was outside the ark of Noe was able to escape, he too who is outside the Church escapes. The Lord warns, saying: 'He who is not with me is against me, and who does not gather with me, scatters.' He who breaks the peace and concord of Christ acts against Christ; he who gathers somewhere outside the Church scatters the Church of Christ. The Lord says: 'I and the Father are one.' And again of the Father and Son and the Holy Spirit it is written: 'And these three are one.' Does anyone believe that this unity which comes from divine strength, which is closely connected with the divine sacraments, can be broken asunder in the Church and be separated by the divisions of colliding wills? He who does not hold this unity, does not hold the law of God, does not hold the faith of the Father and the Son, does not hold life and salvation.
all too prove James knows nothing what he’s talking about and keeps using the same recycled trash arguments over and over
You are proving his point. James said to "ask Cyprian" concerning Popes infallibility dogma, which you have not proven with this blok of text you posted. No wonder the Orthodox are laughing at you, here's the proof:
" Surely the rest of the Apostles also were that which Peter was, endowed with an equal partnership of office and of power, but the beginning proceeds from unity, that the Church of Christ may be shown to be one.."
Peter is the "one" from whom unity streams, but he is only first among the equals in the eyes of Cyprian, as others are "endowed with equal partnership of office AND POWER..."
God breathed on the apostles.
Nice one! I'm stealing that!
Ooh I like it
Right! I feel so blind not to have seen it before!! John 20:22-23! How many times I have read it, and not seen that it is a response to the 2 Timothy 3 "God-breathed the scriptures" argument against including Magisterium and Tradition!
And they in turn lay hands on their successors, and they become divinely ordained ministers of the New Covenant Hierarchical Priesthood in Christ Jesus, in order to carry on the Preaching, Teaching. Practicing , Handing down the Gospel of Christ/Salvation, AND the Sanctifying and Salvific work of God in the world.
The apostles were eyewitnesses. Acts 1.
James White's understanding of apostolic tradition is just untrue, and moronic. I was hoping for a good faith debate but he's pathetic.
Let's all reply like you did.
Let's keep it balanced. To say that James White was pathetic shows that you are NOT reasonable. They both made their points through scripture.
Keeping in the spirit of your argument. Let's also say that Jimmy was Pathetic.
@@polokucoch8112 White's points were awful, he did not even attempt to prove the resolution, he spent his tim painting "Rome" as the villain.
Jimmy instead actually stuck to talking about the resolution, and he successfully proved it's false.
It's clear as day that they did not approach the debate in the same way, White was constantly misdirecting the Audience with talks about "ooh Rome bad" knowing that Jimmy couldn't have responded, because it's a discussion about Sola Scriptura and he had prepared arguments about Sola Scriptura.
White even failed to deny convincingly Jimmy's proof that Sola Scriptura doesn't meet its own test, your position is just incoherent pal.
@@dr.tafazzi Are you DRUNK? What was the topic of the debate? It was on Sola Scriptura. Of course, James would prepare for that!! Are you seriously DRUNK? Just that fact alone tells me that you are waaaay off base.
Did you hear what James said? He said that Jimmy didn't even respond to the points he made and instead, Jimmy made a powerpoint slide that didn't address the points James made. How can you prepare a powerpoint rebuttal without knowing what your opponent is saying??? Again, Waaaaay off base.
And whether you believe in Sola Scriptura or not, if your powerpoint has virtually ZERO scripture to support or rebut arguments then that means that these are Jimmy's thoughts. That's the last guy I want to trust.
Dr. James White clearly defined Sola Scriptura. Whether you want to accept that or not is another matter.
I think this sums it up well :
Jimmy : "God guides the pope so that he doesn't make mistakes"
James White's response - "God guides the pope so that he doesn't make mistakes???"
My response : "Is Jimmy on DRUGS?"
@@polokucoch8112 IF you are protestant, THEN you can only use scripture to prove sola scriptura (which James failed)
But if you are NOT PROTESTANT, you are NOT RELEGATED to scripture alone to make your case.
God voice speaks through the heavens, other people, circumstances in our own lives, art, music (that glorified Him) AND YES, History and Logic!
Sola scriptura cannot defend sola scriptura. Theres so much MORE evidence against it
@@o.o.2255 God's voice speaks in many ways. How do you know that what you think you are hearing is right? Do you really think that logic is the same for every single person? It's scary the way you are thinking...
What is the ONLY way That you can confirm what you think is God's voice?
Is it possible that it's NOT God's voice?
Here is one thing that is certain : The scripture is 100% God's voice.
This sums it up perfectly. Jimmy said "God guides the pope so that he doesn't make mistakes"
Congratulations to my Wife. From Baptist to Catholic🥳🥳🥳
Please pray for the conversion of my partner
Mine too
Yay! Congratulations to both of you! 🎉
Sad,she's just like one of those of John 6:66
@eucharistangel4662 That is both ignorant, and rude. This is not the catholic position. (I am pentecostal btw)
Living in south Louisiana, which is firmly Catholic, it's hard to imagine this happening in the same state. I say that this much respect for these fellow Louisiana Christians.
This debate was done in a rural area, which is more protestant than the rest of the state. At this particular debate there was a strong Catholic presence but at the next one it was more protestant. Fun times!
I hear you. Glad that Jimmy could come here and mix it up!
I've never heard of any of these people, but dang, James White really does not have a good presence about him. He just seems untrustworthy and ingenuine.
Like a used car salesman
Well done James. Thank you for upholding the Word of God over the word of man.
Was Christ a man?
@@dezlovecraft5247 Non-sequitur. Is Christ God?
God bless them both.
Jimmy Akin is one of my heroes now. What a gift he is.
.........he was my hero long time ago and i have not even heard the dude speak.
Jesus is my hero. He is the best gift of all time.
@@mruder8787 FACTS:
#1--Christ NEVER taught that Peter is a pope.-(where is the title Pope in the Bible?)
#2--Christ NEVER taught that Mary will go to heaven. (Where does the bible say Mary will go/has gone to heaven?)
#3--Christ NEVER taught that Mary is a mediator/intercessor. (Where does the bible say Mary is a mediator?
#4--Christ NEVER taught that Mary never sinned. (Where in the bible does it state Mary never sinned?)
#5--Christ NEVER taught that Mary remained virgin. (Where in the bible does it state Mary remained a virgin?)
#6--Christ NEVER Taught that a mere man is head of His church. (Where is the Bible does it state a mere man is head of Christ's church?)
#7--Christ NEVER taught about a church named Catholic. (Where in the Bible is a church named Catholic mentioned?)
#8--Christ NEVER taught that we can pray to the dead.-(Where is the bible does it state we can pray to the dead?)
#9--Christ NEVER taught that the dead can hear our prayers. (Where in the bible does it state the dead can hear our prayers
#10--Christ NEVER taught that anyone can change the day of worship . (Where in the Bible does IT STATE GOD changed the day of worship to Sunday?)
#11--Christ NEVER taught to confess to a "priest". (Where in the Bible does it state we are to confess our sins to a Priest?)
#12--Christ NEVER Taught a priest can forgive your sins. (Where in the Bible does it state a priest can forgive our sins
#13--Christ NEVER taught salvation is through a church..(Where is the bible does it state our salvation comes from a church
#14--Christ NEVER taught to pray to, or with beads!!! (Where in the bile does it state we are to use/pray to beads?)
#15--Christ NEVER started a church named Catholic!!! (Where in the Bible does it mention a church named Catholic?)
#16--Christ never said to confess your sins to a priest.
Dr. White fell short. His historical inaccuracies were downright lies. Great job Jimmy Akins
Jimmy couldn’t refute it, he deflected by accusing James of using a debate tactic and claiming he didn’t have time. This suggests White was not lying with the history.
Could you please point out a lie from Dr. White?
I love how Jimmy let James completely squander his entire first cross-examination when JW focused not at all on Sola Scriptura, but on Fiducia Supplicans and the Synod on Synodality. ^_^
Never stop your opponent when he is busy defeating himself.
Don't the Synods related to Sola Scriptura though? Since Sola Scriptura is related to the debate of the canon?
Night two please
Jimmy Akin crushes James White. 🔥
😂 got that backwards
@@spartakos3178 - Not at all. White was turning red more than once. I've watched tons of his work. You know when he is miffed and he was miffed a lot in this.
Akin was calm and collected. He had not only scripture but also White's books in his presentation. Akin got this one.
@@spartakos3178 😂 for 1400 yrs the church didn't had Bible for every individual that itself proves sola is ❌...
@@savagemode.no, sola does not mean solo. It means the church should define it doctrine on the basis of scripture not itself, which is what RCC does.
@@scotthix2926 That's not how Church define the Doctrine. The Doctrine is defined by carefully looking at Holy Tradition & Holy Scripture bcz not everything is written in Holy Scripture bcz our Church Fathers is the one who compiled the Holy Scripture.
★ The New Testament canon was not determined until the late 300s, books the Church deemed sacred were early on proclaimed at Mass, and read and preached about otherwise. Early Christian writings outnumbered the 30+ books that would become the canon of the New Testament. The shepherds of the Church[Church Fathers], by a process of spiritual discernment and investigation into the liturgical traditions of the Church spread throughout the world, had to draw clear lines of distinction between books that are truly inspired by God and originated in the apostolic period, and those which only claimed to have these qualities. Apostles didn't gave the Bible the Church did.
★The process culminated in 382 as the Council of Rome, which was convened under the leadership of Pope Damasus, promulgated the 73-book scriptural canon. The biblical canon was reaffirmed by the regional councils of Hippo (393) and Carthage (397), and then definitively reaffirmed by the ecumenical Council of Florence in 1442.
★The Old Testament books were written well before Jesus’ Incarnation and all of the New Testament books were written by roughly the end of the first century A.D.But the Bible as a whole was not officially compiled until the late fourth century, illustrating that it was the Catholic Church who determined the canon-or list of books-of the Bible under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Indeed, the Bible is not a self-canonizing collection of books, as there is no table of contents included in any of the books.
Anyone with a little bit of honesty would clearly see what James White is doing here. Gutter behavior and debate tactics. Shame on him... Glory to God
He's trying to distract the audience by bringing things up that are irrelevant to the debate since he has no answer.
@@John_Six it's incredible that the debate is supposed to be about James White defending Sola Scriptura, yet he looked to be on the offensive way more than Jimmy was. I thank God for Jimmy... kept his head, calm and kept exposing James's tactics
Because Trent Horn doesn't use cheap and shady debate tactics amirite? I bet you love him.
Sola Dio Gloria??? LOL!
@@KnightFel show us
I'm not the best with formal debates, but isn’t the purpose of an opening statement to establish the basis of your own argument, and not to rebutt the other side? Why, then, was White talking about his interpretation of the Catholic position during his opening statement?
Edit: I must be wrong about that, as I just got to Jimmy's part, and he did it too, so either it's ok or they both did the same incorrect thing and it canceled out.
Because Sola Scriptura is indefensable so people who adhere to it must go on the offensive and attack the authority of Apostolic Tradition and the Magesterium instead.
Trent Horn pointed out White's... weird interpretation of what counts as an "opening statement" in his debate on Purgatory of a handful of months ago. Jimmy must have prepared to talk on that level.
When I watch debates on this topic, I fully appreciate how Protestants can arrive at an O.T. Sola-scripture (because of Jesus' words), but not the N.T. canon. I wonder how anyone knows that Jesus endorses the 27 book N.T. canon.
You need to read more of Jesus’ words
Thank you Dr James White you cured my Christian apathy. The debate between you and Dr Brown on Predestination just called out to me in the loudest way. Thank you God for giving me ears to hear Dr James White that day. I now am a pipe hitting Calvinist.
To all the Catholics in the comments screaming in support for Akin, what exactly made him win “with a landslide”? Genuinely curious
I agree. I would love to hear anything substantive from the Akin lovers in these comments. I honestly believe Jimmy Akin was completely dishonest and this debate performance was an embarrassment for him.
Well, Mr. White admitted that Sola Scriptura was not always in effect especially in the first century so this is now post biblical inference. Additionally, if you listen to Mr. White, the majority of his arguments were not to the affirmative position it was him listing out things he doesn’t like about the Catholic Church and even complained about Jimmy Akin citing his own book and already having rebuttal arguments prepared.
When someone deviates from their own position, brings up non related topics, and then complains about someone’s rebuttal, it’s a sign they are already on their heels.
Talk to the Orthodox or Coptic Christians if you want on this topic as well.
White can't even tell you when Christians first started practicing Sola Scriptura. He dodged the question repeatedly. He couldn't give the century, let alone an actual date. The whole thing is man-made in the 16th c. One can trace exactly from whom it started: a Catholic priest with no authority named Luther. Today, protestants can't even give you an agreed to definition of the doctrine. It's fruit was, is, and shall ever be: doctrinal chaos, confusion and division. White has done a good job helping protestants convert to Catholicism. This includes his sister !!
From a rules of debate perspective James lost because he is defending the affirmative and thus needs to present a positive case for Sola Scriptura. But, instead presented a Negative case against Catholicism.
Disproving Catholic authority is not the same as proving Sola Scriptura.
That's how I would objectively look at the results
@@Godfrey118 Right. He can't show a positive case. This includes his being unable to show in history who first taught it. And indeed, the early Christian Church - all Catholic, heresies excluded, revered Scripture. But no one went around teaching the 16th c invention of the Catholic priest named Luther.
Can a Protestant explain the Words of Christ to His Apostles (the first Bishops) -
"What you bind on Earth shall be bound in Heaven. What you loose on Earth shall be loosed in Heaven." (Matthew 18:18) Is not Christ giving the first ordained Bishops and Pope authority to rule His Church on Earth? If each person is to interpret Scripture themselves, what sort of confusion does that create?
Dr. White has immensely changed how he presents this topic, from the Bible being the " sole authority", to now being the default. Words matter.
I caught that at the beginning too. Pride is powerful.
... Sola Scriptura MEANS the sole INFALLIBLE rule of faith and practice... It's literally in the definition of the term.
He even states it in his opening statement.
You're conflating the two perspectives he said in his opening statement. Sola scriptura is the sole infallible rule of faith for the church. Sola scriptura is also the default position of scripture itself. Thats not an equivocation.
I noticed that. Basically his argument is that we can’t point to anything else.
It’s hard to keep the story straight when you’re making it up while debating Jimmy
Dr James White won big time against Akin!!
Man it's nice to hear the truth.. thank you James
Did you have the volume on when you watched this
Can someone explain White’s reasoning in his cross examination? I thought the topic for debate was Sola Scriptura, not recent controversies he disagrees with.
It's a very commen protestant tactic. They like to jump Around ALL over and confuse the ignorant but Jimmy Akin knows this so he does what he does 🎉❤
ele sempre faz isso em todos os seus debates, infelizmente! Não importa o assunto, sempre ele dará um jeito de falar sobre como o Papa Francisco "está" mudando a doutrina, e etc.
Jimmy absolutely wiped the floor with James White
Then you watched a totally different debate than I did. They both had their strong and weak points.
@eucharistangel4662well
James white’s own sister converted to Catholicism
@eucharistangel4662 his own sister cares now she’s catholic
Jimmy Akin clearly won!
❤ AMEN 😍 had that self proclaimed "pastor" going to here and there! Bouncing all over the place because he couldn't defend the topic that he brought up to Jimmy Akin 😂.
Wait, I came here looking for answers. Read the comments and saw a load of catholics throwing insincere, passive aggressive comments like "Thank God for James White. Because of him, I’m now a convert from the man-made Protestant religion to the Church Jesus established ". Yet this debate isn't as clear cut as those who have a bias towards their own views being right. I'm actually seeing Mr Akin, avoid answering very valid questions that Dr White is addressing. Instead of addressing them he's throwing out statements like " he's overloading". Ironically, he spent like 20-30 seconds wasting his own time to make this point. As someone who has an honest, sincere interest in Catholicism and is exploring it, all of your comments and what I'm seeing in this video aren't helping. It's like seeing how Muslims respond in the comment sections to debates on the trinity.
Brothers, sisters - keep in mind that how you speak and conduct yourself online is acting as a representation to what you believe. So for someone exploring with a sincere heart, it's a bit of a turn off.
Edit: I also find Mr Akin to be very lacking in grace and very condescending. How on earth is this going to bring people to see as Catholicism as true? A sassy speaker and a comment section full of the same spirit, come on guys - you can do better than this.
I wonder how many Baptists left that night and went home and ordered Jimmy’s book “The Fathers Know Best.” They’ve never heard of “early Church Fathers” from the pulpit, that’s for sure.
Thank you, James White I'm now Catholic
Cute, but I guess you don't pay any attention to the debates?
@@vigilantezack Sorry!
Sorry you weren't listening....
@@Michael-uk3pj Ok
Why lie Leo? If you are so sure about your Catholic faith, just keep it real. I'm not saying I agree with White or not, but I don't feel the need to lie about what I was believing prior to the debate.
didn’t expect James White to be this emotional, confrontational and overall bad when it comes to debating
He always is when engaging with catholics unfortunately...
Protestant converted to Catholic here! I LOVE the Catholic Church! I feel so complete as a Christian now! If you’re Protestant I urge you to look into Catholicism! Come home to the original church Jesus founded! All Praise to Jesus Christ 🙏
Thanks to this pastor for organizing this debate. The apostolic faith wins 🇻🇦 Glory to God!