Forgot to mention in the video, I also tried Cyberpunk with ray tracing on the 4060 to see if maybe using the RT cores would bypass the limit, but it was no different.
On desktop is actually simpler games that consume more because they have an higher GPU occupancy, ray tracing could actually be counter productive as it cause lower occupancy due to its inherent incoherent instructions and memory access pattern. DLSS will lower the resolution which may hit occupancy too, maybe DLAA would push more
Hey Jarrod. Is this hard voltage lock on desktop as well? Also what's your theory on this? I'm thinking board partners were kind of in the dark or they would not have designed things around higher TDP's and the extra money that entails.🤔
Please let's take a minute to appreciate what Jarrod is doing for us here, I salute you man. I don't know without you how we would know these dirty quirks by Nvidia. Thank you so much.
Excuse me what is dirty here? They made power efficiency chip, then sell their chip to other hardware manufacturers. So laptop-produced company already knew how much TDP this chip can consume, they could market in whatever way they want to sell their laptop. And you wanna tell me what the heck Nvidia cheated or lied you?
I really love these power scaling tests you do. They allow us to get a very good idea about the performance of whatever laptop we might want to buy any uncover oddities like the one shown here. Thank you!
On one hand, it's good because these GPUs can achieve the same performance without sucking down as much power as Ampere. On the other hand, the scaling is literal garbage once you hit 90 watts on these, yet they'll still be sold under the pretense of being more powerful than they are with the voltage limit they have.
Tbh I take a totally different approach to reviewing laptops, but I get a LOT of inspiration for my channel form Jarrod. Unbiased clean info as always sir
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional Screen Size 17.3 or 18 Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9 ~Data Science and AI graphics ~Computer modelling and networking ~Virtualization Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional Screen Size 17.3 or 18 Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9 ~Data Science and AI graphics ~Computer modelling and networking ~Virtualization Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
Thanks for your another great coverage Jarrod. Definitely Nvidia is forcing their enthusiastic laptop gamers to pay a shitload of money for 4080 or higher. I'd been considering to buy another gaming laptop this year to replace my old Alienware m15 having 1070 max-q inside, but after watching your clips on laptop 40 series I changed my mind to have a desktop instead. They just don't deserve... Shame on you Nvidia.
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional Screen Size 17.3 or 18 Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9 ~Data Science and AI graphics ~Computer modelling and networking ~Virtualization Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
Thanks for the valuable investigation. Very informative and useful to help people make an informed purchasing decision. It also confirms my decision to skip anything below 4080 for this gen.
@@darrell9616 but i think those cyberpowerPc laptops are somehow fairly priced. rtx 4080, i9-13900hx, 32gb ram, 1tb ssd is going for around 2,300. it ain't cheap but it's better than the rest. i just couldn't find much reviews about it on youtube.
@@ttkttk7463 You're right. That's the best value going right now for a 40 series machine. I can't find any either, and support from these smaller companies is always a concern. It's great to have options.
Give this man an award, equal to or greater then that of investigative journalism. He is the only laptop reviewer who appears to bring things like this to buyer/consumer attention. Jarrod have my respect all the way.
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional Screen Size 17.3 or 18 Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9 ~Data Science and AI graphics ~Computer modelling and networking ~Virtualization Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
That's really groundbreaking! They're only allowing higher TGPs in some particular gpu workloads to avoid lawsuits. They only want their 4080-90 series to reach the max performance limits!
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional Screen Size 17.3 or 18 Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9 ~Data Science and AI graphics ~Computer modelling and networking ~Virtualization Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
It's strange but I think those higher power limits will serve you best with a slight overclock, for example on my legion 5 with the 115W RTX 2060 refresh, going full throttle at 115W gets me nothing other than extra heat, the FPS is the same as running in 80W mode, but if I just add a 115mhz OC to the core then my FPS jumps up by 10-15 FPS, putting it on the same level as a stock desktop 2060, doing that same OC in 80W mode gets me nothing, maybe 3 FPS at best
Wow, seriously you deserve wayy more clicks. This is important stuff and we all thank you for your very hard work! Excellent video, as always! Nvidia has some explaining to do, even though I doubt they will.
Maybe that's why 4070 and 3070 looks so similar, the 4070 is running at 100w while the 3070 is closer to 140w, probably a 140w 4070 (if this thing got fixed somehow) would have that improvement that we would aspect.
That was known for quite some time now, but no one has done a proper job testing it and putting numbers next to it. Great job. That being said, I am pretty sure Nvidia just (mis)used this limiter to restrict performance some more when they found out that they are still too strong even after castrating those dies.
Jarrod'sTech this video is VERY good timing for something I am working on. Your testing will be critical for explaining some decisions companies are making about upcoming products... ;)
If you watched the video, you would know that the problem is the voltage limit and not the power limit. My 4060 hits the voltage limit long before the power limit or thermal limit, in a thin and light (!!). These cards are already clocked pretty high so undervolting doesn't do much since it's not thermally limited. Max I've gone is +250 core and +1250 memory. In power virus benchmarks like furmark, it does reach power limit before the voltage limit. But not a single game has done that for me.
They aren't hitting power limits though so that's not the issue. What you'd want to do overclock. Run the gpu at the absolute max +core offset it can handle at the voltage. To use this extra power budget.
Lol ppl here really forgot to use their brains. If you undervolt, you can reach higher clock speeds at the same voltage. Which means more performance. I know you think undervolting means less power consumption, but that's not entirely true. At a given state, if you only lower voltage, power consumption will go down, sure. But at a given state, if you only increase frequency, power consumption will increase. So by undervolting, at that max voltage level Nvidia is holding ppl to, you can have higher clocks and therefore higher power consumption. So OP is right and y'all need to think before commenting
@@tarfeef_4268 Undervolting is holding a certain frequency by giving the core less power for the price of stability. If you can max out at 1volt for 1ghz you can set to reach 1ghz at 800mvs but you increase instability. How stable you can get depends on chip quality, but you will get lower power consumption for same performance. themselves
Go for the HP Victus coz nowdays games are heviely relying on upscalling and Honestly I don't think it would be long if they start relying on Frame Genreation as well ... Plus you do get that sweet 240hz display
What do you think of this laptop? I just saw it on black friday sale $800 GIGABYTE - 15.6" 144Hz Gaming Laptop FHD - Intel i7-12650H with 16GB RAM - NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 - 512GB SSD - Black@@muhammadshaffkhilji1574
It's quite ridiculous that every alternate generation nvidia becomes super greedy and anti consumer, get roughed up in the market and respond well with the next generation. At this rate might as well just wait and see what they do for 5000 series. AMD not taking advantage of this gap is equally disgusting
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional Screen Size 17.3 or 18 Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9 ~Data Science and AI graphics ~Computer modelling and networking ~Virtualization Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
10 mins ago I was thinking it's worth paying an extra for 140w 4070 :-D Now it's between slim 4070 100-120w and 4080 (170w), although those laptops are noticeably bigger and cost a kidney. I wonder which is better fps for buck 4070 (low wattage) compared to 4080 (full power). Thanks for the awesome reviews!
This is cool observation, but I ask, what about OC and UV? If I am thinking straight, rtx4xxx supposed to have a great OC options. When you lower gpu clock for the same voltage, results may be very optimistic. Maybe try to test that in future videos. :)
I th8nk the benefits of the 4070 are in thin and light laptops, a lkwer wattage 4070 can provide great perofrmance in a 17mm thin chasis. The book 3 ultra, yoga 9i pro, asus zenbook 14 pro/16x for 2023 ar ethe only laptops I'd consider with a 4070 series gpu.
Great confirmation in actual games of good old leaks, that said AD107-106 is not scaling past ~105W. Now waiting to see if desktop cards with these chips (4060 and 4060Ti) have this same problem.
Linus tested boosting the 4090 to use over 600W, and the performance was barely improved even with voltage regulation disabled. I think this might be an architecture limitation.
@@niebuhr6197 It did for me, so I don't know what you're on about... Stop gatekeeping information about computers, not everyone watches or reads about these things 24/7, most people only game casually and actually have a job to be busy with unlike you.
Really curious to how well they would do with MSI afterburner tuning, undervolting and overclocking may actually allow it to make the most of that wattage. Just food for thought.
Thank you so much Jarrod for this information! Best laptop reviews for sure! Could you also test the performance difference on video editing tasks like Davinci Resolve? Appreciate your work!
Wow this was a really interesting find, Jarrod! I wonder if this will blow up and force Nvidia to unlock the power that people thought they were paying for.
Great video but disappointing to see no focus on whether or not a manual core overclock or full voltage/frequency curve sees significant performance uplift or a higher sustained power draw in gaming loads. Being limited by VREL means there's power available but the voltage itself, or rather the lack thereof, will not allow for *gpu boost* to go any higher within it's default boost range. That doesn't mean manual tweaking isn't viable. TSMCs new node is MILES more efficient than Samsung's as well and the fact Nvidia was so confident in that they just artificially limited the available voltage to reach their minimum/expected generational uplift or target performance means there should be massive overclocking headroom. What's the minimum voltage required on these laptops to sustain stock boost? It's probably much MUCH lower than the VREL point. How much can you push the final voltage point in OC? I wish you'd considered going into this as it's the endpoint of this question/revelation that increasing power brings no improvement.
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional Screen Size 17.3 or 18 Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9 ~Data Science and AI graphics ~Computer modelling and networking ~Virtualization Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI?????
Nvidia for sure did this to block laptop companies from making a lower tier card run faster than a high tier one, like what lenovo was doing during the 30 serie laptops. Now if you want a faster gpu you have to buy the next tier up instead of a lower end card running at higher wattage than the higher end card.
I'm glad I got a RTX 4080 laptop (ASUS Strix Scar G18), as that's the only RTX 40 series GPU alongside the RTX 4090 that I think are worth upgrading to if you're a few generations behind - I was upgrading from a GTX 1050Ti, so safe to say, the difference is huge.
Asus definitely has the best deals in today's market. But they have a bothersome issue; coil whine. I want to buy a scar g16 but issue is pushing me back; closest option is from MSI and it has a design that stuck in 2000's. With a price tag almost doubles the g16.
Jarrod, can you tell us more about cooling solution here ? Because as far i can tell, RTX 4070 and below will stop improving at 100W, so they will run cooler in max powered chassis. Is the lower temperature and build quality worth the price ? Most temp chart see these cards running at around 60 -80 and CPU not more than 90, which are extremely nice for longevity.
@@JarrodsTech It would be really nice if you could just post a temp average for this generation at max load, because for folks like me who lived under tropical sun, that would be a world of different. Temp for charts usually i have to + 3 - 5 for my place.
Well, if the laptop is properly configured to run the GPU at 140 W sustained (like in that Haven? benchmark) then it will surely be cooler and/or quieter at 100W. So that might be a reason to get a higher tier laptop, even if the 140W is kind of useless to you (at least in today's games)
I think that Nvidia and the manufacturers don't want to see more laptops on the market with for example a 3060/3070 beating the 3070/3080 because of the higher power of the 3060/3070 in these cases.
Well most laptop brands are still using last-gen cooling designs and power inefficient Intel H/HX CPUs in 15.5-18 inch SKUs. If they taken their time and prepared more 15.6-18" models with vapor chambers in time for Zen3+/Zen4 Ryzen supply to catch up then we would have *A LOT* more designs with 8-16 "P-core" CPUs running at full tilt with dGPUs dynamic boosting 14-33% higher to 185-200W TGPs instead of the same 150-175W limits. Just look at the 25-39% jump in TGP wattage in 14inchers from 75-100W last gen to 95-125W this gen. 🤯
Thanks Jarrod, it's unbelievable the huge work testing this, every game, at ALMOST EVERY WATTAGE, in 10W increments?!?! YOU'RE THE REAL MVP. For real, thanks.
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional Screen Size 17.3 or 18 Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9 ~Data Science and AI graphics ~Computer modelling and networking ~Virtualization Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
you might be able to ignore the voltage by using msi afterburner curve editor. you will get less clock speed tho but you might be able to get more wattage instead… Idk how each will perform so you have to test it out.Try setting the voltage to 0.9.Make sure to tick constant voltage in msi afterbruner.
i think LTT make video about rtx 4090 1000watts test today that conclude the same result as this one. They got same avarage fps using asus rog 4090, with 80 watt different(360watt vs 440watt).
Jarrod, thank you very much for this video. I am currently considering buying a new laptop and choosing the gpu is a major headache, since 4080/4090 a just unreachable and after seeing your video I can just pick a thin and light 4070 laptop with no doubt. Good job as always!
@@jackali5014 3070ti laptops are not cheap too, i have considered them too. It’s just if I buy a new laptop, I want it to be latest model, and not buy already outdated hardware. It is what it is 🤷🏻♂️
this is a kind of techtuber that know their stuff and inform it to viewer, useful and ground breaking information and not just promoting their promotion brand while giving not so useful information. Good job JarrodsTech
That was exactly my reasoning for getting a 4070 laptop: to get the most fps out of an affordable and quiet machine. Plus hopefully it will live longer due to being run colder, but we'll have to see in a couple of years. Yeah, 4080 and 4090 would crank out even more frames but those laptops usually cost at least double - this is where I draw the line of hunting for efficiency xD
Great video. I got the lenovo yoga pro 7 with a 4060 but it as capped at 60w. Im not going to use it primarly for gaming tho but i hope it Will work for games also. Even if the 60w Max power is low. Or what do you think? Will this laptop handle games?…
I'm guessing this was their solution for all the overheating problems earlier. Faced with a massively expensive recall, they chose to secretly limit them. Well, the phone makers fod and do thos too, for the same reason.
I'm honestly wondering what this will means for AMD equivalent laptops at the mid-range when they do come out. The efficiency of these chips is awesome, but I can't brush off that this feels like it's an Advantage Edition situation brewing in the background.
Definitely smells of artificial product segmentation. Thank you, Jarrod, for all of the effort you put into these excellent videos. I'm seriously considering getting a new laptop this year, so I'm happy to save a buck for a negligible performance penalty.
Great video! Great work! 💯 Maybe this is the first time I see a review testing the full TDP range. Love to see a similar graph to the one at 6:10 but with the score scaled by watt, something like Scores/watt vs watts, in an updated version of this video. If you can also include the laptop price range for each GPU TDP, I feel it could be one of the best buyer guides. (It's just my thought when seeing this video, I am not sure if it possible to include the price or not) Thanks!
Thank you for this video breakdown! Im glad I purchased the Legion 7i RTX 4080 32GB 2TB option because i felt like anything lower would be a joke buying as far as performance. You also posed a question that I also had in my mind as well that being is Nvidia gonna release a RTX 4070 TI because I honestly feel like thats what they are gonna do which would still make me glad I went with the 4080 option. Keep the videos running bro your the best at what you do!
Here in the EU there might be a case for sewing on grounds of “abuse of dominant market position”. As DG COMP has done in the past with Microsoft, Apple and Google. Although give their limited capacity to prosecute this might be too small a fish.
Forgot to mention in the video, I also tried Cyberpunk with ray tracing on the 4060 to see if maybe using the RT cores would bypass the limit, but it was no different.
i think this policy isn't legal, is computer obsolescence. the same think do apple with cpu and battery on iphone. (in Frence is a crime)
Market Share Ready® for AMD Radeon nom nom 🐊😋
On desktop is actually simpler games that consume more because they have an higher GPU occupancy, ray tracing could actually be counter productive as it cause lower occupancy due to its inherent incoherent instructions and memory access pattern. DLSS will lower the resolution which may hit occupancy too, maybe DLAA would push more
@Jarrod's Tech can you please make a review on the Predator Helios neo & Helios 16 series (2023)
Hey Jarrod. Is this hard voltage lock on desktop as well? Also what's your theory on this?
I'm thinking board partners were kind of in the dark or they would not have designed things around higher TDP's and the extra money that entails.🤔
So basically Nvidia has deliberately hindered performance so as to not give any extra performance than they decide the consumer should get?
Yes
Yes
Yes
seems about right!
Yes, to make you pay more on laptops that offer the second last digits, 8 and 9.
Please let's take a minute to appreciate what Jarrod is doing for us here, I salute you man. I don't know without you how we would know these dirty quirks by Nvidia. Thank you so much.
very much agreed
Agreed completely. This is extremely helpful to the public.
I cannot give your comment a whole bunch of likes, but i can give you these 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
What's with the take a minute bs. I'm taking 8minutes to watch it already.
Excuse me what is dirty here? They made power efficiency chip, then sell their chip to other hardware manufacturers. So laptop-produced company already knew how much TDP this chip can consume, they could market in whatever way they want to sell their laptop. And you wanna tell me what the heck Nvidia cheated or lied you?
I really love these power scaling tests you do. They allow us to get a very good idea about the performance of whatever laptop we might want to buy any uncover oddities like the one shown here.
Thank you!
big thanks for the power scaling charts
It's the scam of the decade from nvidia selling cards claiming its "140w" when in reality barely reaches 100w smh . Great video Jarrod
it's even weirder considering people dont buy laptop for wattage, they just want frames!
On one hand, it's good because these GPUs can achieve the same performance without sucking down as much power as Ampere. On the other hand, the scaling is literal garbage once you hit 90 watts on these, yet they'll still be sold under the pretense of being more powerful than they are with the voltage limit they have.
Thin and lights running on low power definitely have an edge with these cards inside. 😅
I dunno how Nvidia hasn't been sued with false advertising yet.
@@thetrustysidekick3013 because they're a big corporation and they're gonna win the lawsuit regardless. Just how the world works now
No one does a better job than you! Thank you for putting in the work you do!
Double Plus Good!
Laptop god
Yuppp!! Fr!!
Tbh I take a totally different approach to reviewing laptops, but I get a LOT of inspiration for my channel form Jarrod.
Unbiased clean info as always sir
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional
Screen Size 17.3 or 18
Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9
~Data Science and AI graphics
~Computer modelling and networking
~Virtualization
Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
I call shame on Nvidia.
This is amazing information Jarrod❤
finally first on reply xD is this count ?
Wow 😒😮😳
Nshitia has clearly made 4050 appear as the 4060 and forced higher power limits on it. If this is what next gen is supposed to be, I can do better.
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional
Screen Size 17.3 or 18
Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9
~Data Science and AI graphics
~Computer modelling and networking
~Virtualization
Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
@@Naraayanay Do you need more than 8GB of VRAM? If so you're gonna need something with an RTX 3080TI, 4080, or 4090 Mobile.
ScamVidia won't like this video.
cry
@@il_principeu seem to be are crying
@@il_principebro crying 😂
Bro really said "🥺:cry"@@il_principe
Thanks for your another great coverage Jarrod. Definitely Nvidia is forcing their enthusiastic laptop gamers to pay a shitload of money for 4080 or higher. I'd been considering to buy another gaming laptop this year to replace my old Alienware m15 having 1070 max-q inside, but after watching your clips on laptop 40 series I changed my mind to have a desktop instead. They just don't deserve... Shame on you Nvidia.
i think u can also buy amd ones or prev gen laptops which are on sale
For laptops I'd honestly just look at either AMD or intel this generation if you want to buy new.
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional
Screen Size 17.3 or 18
Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9
~Data Science and AI graphics
~Computer modelling and networking
~Virtualization
Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
Shame nvidia and after that u r going to shop and buy their desktop gpu lol
Thanks for the valuable investigation. Very informative and useful to help people make an informed purchasing decision. It also confirms my decision to skip anything below 4080 for this gen.
i believe that's what Nvidia wants exactly. They want everyone to buy the more expensive laptops.
@@ttkttk7463 No question. It's terrible TBH. I have my eye on 3080 and AMD 6850M XT right now due to the pricing issues of 4080 machines.
@@darrell9616 Just wait until christmas time. Thats when the specials come out.
@@darrell9616 but i think those cyberpowerPc laptops are somehow fairly priced. rtx 4080, i9-13900hx, 32gb ram, 1tb ssd is going for around 2,300. it ain't cheap but it's better than the rest. i just couldn't find much reviews about it on youtube.
@@ttkttk7463 You're right. That's the best value going right now for a 40 series machine. I can't find any either, and support from these smaller companies is always a concern.
It's great to have options.
Give this man an award, equal to or greater then that of investigative journalism. He is the only laptop reviewer who appears to bring things like this to buyer/consumer attention. Jarrod have my respect all the way.
He talks like NPC doesn't bother u?
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional
Screen Size 17.3 or 18
Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9
~Data Science and AI graphics
~Computer modelling and networking
~Virtualization
Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
@@kaywonderer who cares however he talks, as long as the information is real and accurate
Lol it only bothers You bud @@kaywonderer
@@kaywonderershut up NPC
Hi Jarrod. So far you had the clearest and most data driven tech reviewer i ever watched. You deserve more than thousands of subscribers!
That's really groundbreaking! They're only allowing higher TGPs in some particular gpu workloads to avoid lawsuits. They only want their 4080-90 series to reach the max performance limits!
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional
Screen Size 17.3 or 18
Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9
~Data Science and AI graphics
~Computer modelling and networking
~Virtualization
Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
@@Naraayanay buy a 3070ti max power.
Thanks for the support! sorry for the massive delay, TH-cam isn't the best at notifying for these!
@@Naraayanaybuy an alienware on the second hand markets, these laptops have good cooling system.
I wish you would make a video nvidia 3000 series vs 4000 series with the same type of graphs (per watt performence and per dollar performance) 😊
It's strange but I think those higher power limits will serve you best with a slight overclock, for example on my legion 5 with the 115W RTX 2060 refresh, going full throttle at 115W gets me nothing other than extra heat, the FPS is the same as running in 80W mode, but if I just add a 115mhz OC to the core then my FPS jumps up by 10-15 FPS, putting it on the same level as a stock desktop 2060, doing that same OC in 80W mode gets me nothing, maybe 3 FPS at best
Wow, seriously you deserve wayy more clicks. This is important stuff and we all thank you for your very hard work! Excellent video, as always! Nvidia has some explaining to do, even though I doubt they will.
It's incredibly amazing that you point this out, Jarrod. You honestly do the most and I'm here for it! ♥️
Maybe that's why 4070 and 3070 looks so similar, the 4070 is running at 100w while the 3070 is closer to 140w, probably a 140w 4070 (if this thing got fixed somehow) would have that improvement that we would aspect.
That was known for quite some time now, but no one has done a proper job testing it and putting numbers next to it. Great job.
That being said, I am pretty sure Nvidia just (mis)used this limiter to restrict performance some more when they found out that they are still too strong even after castrating those dies.
Jarrod'sTech this video is VERY good timing for something I am working on. Your testing will be critical for explaining some decisions companies are making about upcoming products... ;)
Cool, I was wondering if the desktop cards that use the same GPU dies will be subject to this too or something similar.
HELLO TOM!!! 🐊🔥🔥🔥
I wonder if undervolting them would let them hit power limits later and eke out some extra performance.
If you watched the video, you would know that the problem is the voltage limit and not the power limit.
My 4060 hits the voltage limit long before the power limit or thermal limit, in a thin and light (!!). These cards are already clocked pretty high so undervolting doesn't do much since it's not thermally limited. Max I've gone is +250 core and +1250 memory.
In power virus benchmarks like furmark, it does reach power limit before the voltage limit. But not a single game has done that for me.
They aren't hitting power limits though so that's not the issue.
What you'd want to do overclock. Run the gpu at the absolute max +core offset it can handle at the voltage. To use this extra power budget.
@@prajaybasu My mistake. I guess undervolting would let you use more of the power or something. It's confusing a bit.
Lol ppl here really forgot to use their brains.
If you undervolt, you can reach higher clock speeds at the same voltage. Which means more performance.
I know you think undervolting means less power consumption, but that's not entirely true. At a given state, if you only lower voltage, power consumption will go down, sure. But at a given state, if you only increase frequency, power consumption will increase.
So by undervolting, at that max voltage level Nvidia is holding ppl to, you can have higher clocks and therefore higher power consumption.
So OP is right and y'all need to think before commenting
@@tarfeef_4268 Undervolting is holding a certain frequency by giving the core less power for the price of stability. If you can max out at 1volt for 1ghz you can set to reach 1ghz at 800mvs but you increase instability. How stable you can get depends on chip quality, but you will get lower power consumption for same performance.
themselves
So which laptop should you buy?
HP Victus 16" Gaming Laptop QHD 240Hz AMD R7-7840HS 16GB RAM 512GB SSD RTX 4060 ($999$
or
Acer Nitro 5 15.6" Gaming Laptop QHD 165Hz R7 6800H 16GB RAM 1TB SSD RTX 3070Ti ($969)
Go for the HP Victus coz nowdays games are heviely relying on upscalling and Honestly I don't think it would be long if they start relying on Frame Genreation as well ...
Plus you do get that sweet 240hz display
What do you think of this laptop? I just saw it on black friday sale $800
GIGABYTE - 15.6" 144Hz Gaming Laptop FHD - Intel i7-12650H with 16GB RAM - NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 - 512GB SSD - Black@@muhammadshaffkhilji1574
I swear, even if not being a laptop user, Jarrods analysis always hit home. Such a great work.
It's quite ridiculous that every alternate generation nvidia becomes super greedy and anti consumer, get roughed up in the market and respond well with the next generation. At this rate might as well just wait and see what they do for 5000 series.
AMD not taking advantage of this gap is equally disgusting
what is intel, chopped liver? the arc cards are good.
AMD is 100% taking advantage of this gap, by joining in. They are making their money.
@@muizzsiddique Market Share Ready® for AMD Radeon nom nom 🐊😋
Sorry but AMD has noting that compete with RTX 4070 at 80w. THeir GPU don't scale that very well at extreme lower power
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional
Screen Size 17.3 or 18
Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9
~Data Science and AI graphics
~Computer modelling and networking
~Virtualization
Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
That chart comparison blew my mind right away from the abyss. Am sticking to my 30 series.
X14 aw 3060 here. Still happy with it.
10 mins ago I was thinking it's worth paying an extra for 140w 4070 :-D Now it's between slim 4070 100-120w and 4080 (170w), although those laptops are noticeably bigger and cost a kidney. I wonder which is better fps for buck 4070 (low wattage) compared to 4080 (full power). Thanks for the awesome reviews!
Why would you want 4070 when it's slower than 3070 mobile in most games
Me and my wallet are thanking you Jarrod! Well explained!
145W 3070 Mobile or RX 6800S/6700S laptops deals here I coooooome!!!! 😁
@@handlemonium I hope to get a 3070 TI at 140ish watts. I don't care about dlss at all.
This is cool observation, but I ask, what about OC and UV? If I am thinking straight, rtx4xxx supposed to have a great OC options. When you lower gpu clock for the same voltage, results may be very optimistic. Maybe try to test that in future videos. :)
Might change the performance, but can't imagine it preventing the voltage limit being hit and hitting a wall, that said I did not try.
I th8nk the benefits of the 4070 are in thin and light laptops, a lkwer wattage 4070 can provide great perofrmance in a 17mm thin chasis. The book 3 ultra, yoga 9i pro, asus zenbook 14 pro/16x for 2023 ar ethe only laptops I'd consider with a 4070 series gpu.
Great confirmation in actual games of good old leaks, that said AD107-106 is not scaling past ~105W. Now waiting to see if desktop cards with these chips (4060 and 4060Ti) have this same problem.
Linus tested boosting the 4090 to use over 600W, and the performance was barely improved even with voltage regulation disabled. I think this might be an architecture limitation.
Desktop chips wont have low voltage limits, they would be able to push 1.1v and 3ghz...
Awesome analysis and explanation!
This is top tier content, thanks for all the effort and time put into this investigations and benchmarks
Jarrod you are a life saver, I initially wanted to get an M16 with 4060/4070, but after this, I'm going for last year's RTX 3070ti.
I went with 3070ti as well. WORKS like a beast
What laptops are you using for that GPU?
What a banger! Also waiting for your 2023 G14 review.
Thank you jarrod for exposing nvidia
This has been known for a couple of months, Jarrod dint expose anything.
@@niebuhr6197 It did for me, so I don't know what you're on about... Stop gatekeeping information about computers, not everyone watches or reads about these things 24/7, most people only game casually and actually have a job to be busy with unlike you.
Thank you very much for letting us know these findings !
Really curious to how well they would do with MSI afterburner tuning, undervolting and overclocking may actually allow it to make the most of that wattage. Just food for thought.
Excellent work sir. I was specifically looking for the 4050 as i haven’t tested it much. S+ tier video as always
Thank you so much Jarrod for this information! Best laptop reviews for sure!
Could you also test the performance difference on video editing tasks like Davinci Resolve?
Appreciate your work!
this
Crazy situation. Thank you for covering it!
Please do a Lenovo legion Pro 5/5i 4060 vs Legion 5 Pro 3060 gaming comparison
Nice shirt Jarrod, my first concert was COB lol
🤘
Wow this was a really interesting find, Jarrod! I wonder if this will blow up and force Nvidia to unlock the power that people thought they were paying for.
Market Share Ready® for AMD Radeon nom nom 🐊😋
A remarkable research. Thank you Jerrod.
Pretty solid data for a class action lawyer to pounce on. The TI theory is plausible.
Man such a detailllledd video...hats off man 🎉
Great video but disappointing to see no focus on whether or not a manual core overclock or full voltage/frequency curve sees significant performance uplift or a higher sustained power draw in gaming loads. Being limited by VREL means there's power available but the voltage itself, or rather the lack thereof, will not allow for *gpu boost* to go any higher within it's default boost range. That doesn't mean manual tweaking isn't viable. TSMCs new node is MILES more efficient than Samsung's as well and the fact Nvidia was so confident in that they just artificially limited the available voltage to reach their minimum/expected generational uplift or target performance means there should be massive overclocking headroom. What's the minimum voltage required on these laptops to sustain stock boost? It's probably much MUCH lower than the VREL point. How much can you push the final voltage point in OC? I wish you'd considered going into this as it's the endpoint of this question/revelation that increasing power brings no improvement.
You sounds like an nvidia engineer
Really quality info Jared thank you
Jarrod just saved a lot of people hundreds of dollars.
*Thousands*
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional
Screen Size 17.3 or 18
Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9
~Data Science and AI graphics
~Computer modelling and networking
~Virtualization
Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI?????
Thank you Jarrod for your valuable insights
A quick thought on this; does the voltage limit mean that undervolting the GPU might actually unlock more performance?
You just earned a subscriber. Keep up the good work.
Nvidia for sure did this to block laptop companies from making a lower tier card run faster than a high tier one, like what lenovo was doing during the 30 serie laptops. Now if you want a faster gpu you have to buy the next tier up instead of a lower end card running at higher wattage than the higher end card.
yes unfortunately, I've seen reviews where legion rtx 3060 beat notebook with rtx 3070
Absolutely fantastic video & research mate. Keep it up! :)
I'm glad I got a RTX 4080 laptop (ASUS Strix Scar G18), as that's the only RTX 40 series GPU alongside the RTX 4090 that I think are worth upgrading to if you're a few generations behind - I was upgrading from a GTX 1050Ti, so safe to say, the difference is huge.
But the cost difference is huge... even against a 4070-equipped laptop.
nVidia is just taking your money.
if y ou come from gtx 1050ti you will notice diferencie even whit a 3070 laptop or just get a 90w 4060 latpop if you want more portability
Asus definitely has the best deals in today's market.
But they have a bothersome issue; coil whine. I want to buy a scar g16 but issue is pushing me back; closest option is from MSI and it has a design that stuck in 2000's. With a price tag almost doubles the g16.
You must feel the burn of seeing $999 laptops with 4060 hanging alongside your bad investment
@@eliubfj Or the 3060 still cost $999.
great consumer information Jarrod!
Jarrod, can you tell us more about cooling solution here ? Because as far i can tell, RTX 4070 and below will stop improving at 100W, so they will run cooler in max powered chassis. Is the lower temperature and build quality worth the price ? Most temp chart see these cards running at around 60 -80 and CPU not more than 90, which are extremely nice for longevity.
I didn't actually monitor the temperatures at different levels here, but below 100w I'd assume they're cooler
@@JarrodsTech It would be really nice if you could just post a temp average for this generation at max load, because for folks like me who lived under tropical sun, that would be a world of different. Temp for charts usually i have to + 3 - 5 for my place.
Well, if the laptop is properly configured to run the GPU at 140 W sustained (like in that Haven? benchmark) then it will surely be cooler and/or quieter at 100W. So that might be a reason to get a higher tier laptop, even if the 140W is kind of useless to you (at least in today's games)
@@hoanghanguyenvinh8476 j
Awesome work as always. Thanks. Can you please do same test with FG ?
I think that Nvidia and the manufacturers don't want to see more laptops on the market with for example a 3060/3070 beating the 3070/3080 because of the higher power of the 3060/3070 in these cases.
Well most laptop brands are still using last-gen cooling designs and power inefficient Intel H/HX CPUs in 15.5-18 inch SKUs.
If they taken their time and prepared more 15.6-18" models with vapor chambers in time for Zen3+/Zen4 Ryzen supply to catch up then we would have *A LOT* more designs with 8-16 "P-core" CPUs running at full tilt with dGPUs dynamic boosting 14-33% higher to 185-200W TGPs instead of the same 150-175W limits.
Just look at the 25-39% jump in TGP wattage in 14inchers from 75-100W last gen to 95-125W this gen. 🤯
You're really the best for Laptop Reviews and Testing Jarrod!
Quite interesting.. so now the
Thanks Jarrod, it's unbelievable the huge work testing this, every game, at ALMOST EVERY WATTAGE, in 10W increments?!?! YOU'RE THE REAL MVP. For real, thanks.
Wow that is crazy btw thx jarrod for all ur efforts man
The data from these tests is amazing, thanks for all the work you do! It's very sad that the RTX 4050 - 4070s perform this way.
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional
Screen Size 17.3 or 18
Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9
~Data Science and AI graphics
~Computer modelling and networking
~Virtualization
Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
Great video, appreciate the efforts!
Looks like Nvidia fumbled the bag here
Got this info from other reviewers as well. Thank you for making a full video on this topic.
No problem, the more people who know the better!
Jarrod you are a legend! Appreciate and love your work 💙
You rock my friend as always. Great review. Best wishes from Türkiye.
you might be able to ignore the voltage by using msi afterburner curve editor. you will get less clock speed tho but you might be able to get more wattage instead… Idk how each will perform so you have to test it out.Try setting the voltage to 0.9.Make sure to tick constant voltage in msi afterbruner.
thanks for the conclusive Video Mate. Keep the work up
damn, this kind of extensive testing is what I'd hoped LTT would be doing
Labs isn't fully set up yet although they will probably focus more on PCs than laptops anyways
i think LTT make video about rtx 4090 1000watts test today that conclude the same result as this one. They got same avarage fps using asus rog 4090, with 80 watt different(360watt vs 440watt).
awesome video jarrod, very much needed!
Jarrod, thank you very much for this video. I am currently considering buying a new laptop and choosing the gpu is a major headache, since 4080/4090 a just unreachable and after seeing your video I can just pick a thin and light 4070 laptop with no doubt. Good job as always!
Don't buy 4000 laptops, don't support Nvidia, if you most have one get rtx 3070ti laptop
@@jackali5014 3070ti laptops are not cheap too, i have considered them too. It’s just if I buy a new laptop, I want it to be latest model, and not buy already outdated hardware. It is what it is 🤷🏻♂️
@@n1ce-0 just don't buy a 4070 buy it's a meme gpu
8 gb 4070 is already limited man by its VRAM. You will have to lower settings (low-med) at 1080p in new games.
this is a kind of techtuber that know their stuff and inform it to viewer, useful and ground breaking information and not just promoting their promotion brand while giving not so useful information. Good job JarrodsTech
hey thanks
I don't know what you talking about there is clearly 1 frame differences that makes all games 1% more playable 🤓🤓
Lol
Very clever point of view! Thanks!
Nvidia never fails to dissapoint.
THANK YOU for this, really helpful!
The good thing out of this, is that if you have a cooler that can cool a 140W GPU, it will be very cool and quiet with only 100W needed.
That was exactly my reasoning for getting a 4070 laptop: to get the most fps out of an affordable and quiet machine. Plus hopefully it will live longer due to being run colder, but we'll have to see in a couple of years.
Yeah, 4080 and 4090 would crank out even more frames but those laptops usually cost at least double - this is where I draw the line of hunting for efficiency xD
Great video. I got the lenovo yoga pro 7 with a 4060 but it as capped at 60w. Im not going to use it primarly for gaming tho but i hope it Will work for games also. Even if the 60w Max power is low. Or what do you think? Will this laptop handle games?…
6-8gb vram gpu not gonna last long.
Well upscaled 900p on a 12-14.5" screen looks fine and upscaled 1080p is serviceable on 15.6-18" displays.
I'm guessing this was their solution for all the overheating problems earlier. Faced with a massively expensive recall, they chose to secretly limit them. Well, the phone makers fod and do thos too, for the same reason.
Nvidia has done great convincing you to strip your wallet on more costly laptops and GPUs.
Thank you Jarrod for the work you've done
I'm honestly wondering what this will means for AMD equivalent laptops at the mid-range when they do come out. The efficiency of these chips is awesome, but I can't brush off that this feels like it's an Advantage Edition situation brewing in the background.
Best review channel out there, thank you ❤
This is why Jarrod is the best laptop reviewer on TH-cam
Respect to you for taking the time to make this video bro, subscribed
Definitely smells of artificial product segmentation. Thank you, Jarrod, for all of the effort you put into these excellent videos. I'm seriously considering getting a new laptop this year, so I'm happy to save a buck for a negligible performance penalty.
Superb video, great findings and info, thanks a lot bro.
why does the 4070 mobile have less vram than the desktops 12gb
Looks like the rtx 3060 mobile with 6gb and the desktop with 12gb
Its a shame they didnt have the same amount of vram
To force the user to upgrade more often
Even 12GB of Vram on the Desktop part is too low it should've came with 16gb minimum
And probably because increasing power consumption & motherboard space too
@@qusaifarid513 you are crazy
Great video! Great work! 💯
Maybe this is the first time I see a review testing the full TDP range.
Love to see a similar graph to the one at 6:10 but with the score scaled by watt, something like Scores/watt vs watts, in an updated version of this video.
If you can also include the laptop price range for each GPU TDP, I feel it could be one of the best buyer guides.
(It's just my thought when seeing this video, I am not sure if it possible to include the price or not)
Thanks!
Thank you for this video breakdown! Im glad I purchased the Legion 7i RTX 4080 32GB 2TB option because i felt like anything lower would be a joke buying as far as performance. You also posed a question that I also had in my mind as well that being is Nvidia gonna release a RTX 4070 TI because I honestly feel like thats what they are gonna do which would still make me glad I went with the 4080 option. Keep the videos running bro your the best at what you do!
Amazing, thank you Jarrod
Era of thin gaming laptops 😎 Praise zephyrus lineup 🥳
Watching this from my 2022 zep g15
So sorry which Laptop you suggest? Better to look for 3060 graphic card?
Does this hidden voltage wall warrant a class action lawsuit? 🙃
Here in the EU there might be a case for sewing on grounds of “abuse of dominant market position”. As DG COMP has done in the past with Microsoft, Apple and Google. Although give their limited capacity to prosecute this might be too small a fish.
Bodom! Also thanks I'm in the market and have seen similar results, I'm waiting, but not sure what for at this point
I can't imagine the amount of time it took to research all of this. Incredible work sir. Thank you!