You're very welcome... Although it is fun seeing how far we can push the envelope on the sponsored ads. We had maybe a little too much fun on that one.
I was taught to always push with mig when I went to tech college, but when I got out in the world I quickly found that you could not always push so I would pull. Now I just do what I have to do to get the job done.
I do both PUSH and PULL. All depends upon the access I have to the joint that needs to be welded. Sometimes, I will use both approaches on the same project, just because of access to the area that requires the weld. Great video.
He did. We've been getting a lot of questions about it and we wanted to do it a little differently, which is why we threw it on the Binzel tractor and take as many variables out as we could.
You're supposed to only push but real life will mean there's times where you need to pull or you want a flatter weld for grinding afterwards. And there's no real major problems going either way, though, after all this welder is inputting 233.3mm of wire a second, you will be hard pressed screwing it up. Much like vertical down was a huge no no but on mig you are pumping in enough wire to negate the problems you'd have with stick and tig.
Obviously Jody is a legend but this was a very scientific test with that tractor thing. They do need to try with steeper angles though. I wonder what the point of such superfine polishing is. Presumably it reveals more details than just where the weld basically is?
Polishing the metal removes all the scratches that regular old sanding/grinding would leave behind which would hide the grain structure of the metal. You wouldn't be able to see the welded area like at the 9:00 mark.
After mig welding for 30 years, I do both. When I used a NAP universal welder, it used a slight push and also used 90/10. I used 92/8 as well and Gold Gas steel mix extra with no problems
@@chrisplayz253 Higher C02 gives deeper penetration. Argon is a good ,"wetting", agent, it gives a flatter, neater weld. Argon is also essential to achieve a true spray transfer, anything lower than 90%(I think it's 90%, I cant remember off the top of my head.) and you can't get full spray, it'll have a slight bit of globular transfer too.
People always talk about push or pull but the bottom line is, u do either one of the two depending on what youre welding. Sometimes things can be in ur way while welding to possibly do one of ur choice. When u can, u should push a mig weld but if u cant then obviously youll need to pull it instead.
Not surprised due to spray transfer. You should have done short circuit, you will definitely see a difference and it will be very enlightening. I'm not going to spoil it here. Just use same test rigging and methods using short circuit only.
That's one of the best videos I've seen around. I simply love when alll parameters are held fixed except one, and than the results can be compared. This is the kind of procedure that lets you learn plainly about welding parameters. Also the metallographic study is amazing. Congratulations on the great work
Great video. When I spray arc’d dozer frames in the late 90’s, early 2000’s pull/drag technique was forced upon us. Almost everyone in the last 20 years has preached push mig, or if slag- drag. Another great way to verify this test on a bigger scale is to use a small machine. It becomes inherently more evident, the smaller the machine.
Ditto. It DID seem apparent from this vid. Loved the fact this was the FIRST video I've seen to look at it from a 'microscope-metallurgical' stance for penetration.
I miss Bob. Hope all is going well for him and he's back turning out videos when hes ready. Great video. As a carpenter and hobbyist, the wider deeper information into welding isnt very critical to my needs, but I enjoy learning and your videos are great for that.
Like you said if you been welding awhile you’ll know out in the field or in the shop you gotta make different welds in different angles. Sometimes you can’t push, and sometimes you can’t pull. Do what you gotta do🤷🏻♂️ it’s like if you’re right handed you better weld better left handed 💪🏼
Jacob Flores there is a lot o truth to that I’m left handed and weld right handed better lol But I also golf,bat and throw right handed but play hockey left handed lol
In a production setting I've found what ever you feel most comfortable with at the time. Most of my work has been automated heavy industrial and heavy truck (10yd concrete mixers NOT cement mixers!)
I have always preffered pulling simply because it allows me to have a more comfortable angle to see the weld puddle riht handed as I am in most of the welding I do, glad to hear it basically doesn't matter though in case I need to push in oddball positions.
I do both at work daily, it depends on the position, where my gun is at, if something's in my way, how strength critical the joint is, etc. but generally I prefer to pull simply for visibility's sake of course I only pushed for 2 years while at school
Really cool video, very basic, but solid. I push or pull foremost based on access to what im welding, but mainly ill push on thinner and pull on thicker
I push most of the time, unless I need to get around something. I like to push because the arc lights my way. When doing fcaw , I like to pull because the bead tends to come out nicer.
Excellent video and well executed. Pulling seems to keep the puddle fluid longer creating better mixing filler/parent material. When I push the heat seems to be on the work peice more than the puddle leading the way.. Unless its vertical up. Try preheating to 150°.
@@chrisplayz253 Roger that I have seen it, but he did not use a robot that is the reason i want to see them do short circuit to take out the human element.
A lot of times when I am welding thin material with a close fit-up, I will push because I can go faster with more heat. But poor fit, I generally reduce the heat, use more tip movement and keyhole through it. When I pull, I generally end up with more heat in the weld even with a lower setting.
Last place I worked they had a rule that all welds were to be push. No one ever explained why that was. They also did down verticals which now that I'm learning a bit more might have been the cause of a lot of their problems.
I just find it fascinating that all these "welders" debating push vs pull have never been able to run a quick bead plus bend and etch....i immediately noticed more root fusion with pull. I generally push on thinner metal and pull on thicker. I started with stick and fcaw on half inch and up, so pulling was a natural to me. I did testing straight away because people at work had this "you can't pull mig" attitude and found next to no difference.
I write like that. Worked with a guy that would hand write wire tag labels that you would think were machine made. I always tired to get as good as his stuff, just don't have it in me.
Push preheats the metal and thus gives deeper and faster penetration. The hot beam that comes from the arc will preheat the metal, on both MIG and TIG. On horizontal fillet welds, the weld will fall downwards. When pushing, the gas will push the weld out to the sides, giving you a 45 degree fillet weld instead of a 30 degree fillet weld.
I push and pull welds. It all depends on my positioning over the work. If i think penetration is going to be an issue, i bump up the heat. My ESAB mig doesn't seem to care either way. If I'm doing bench work, i tend to push for prettier results. But i dont see micro fractures as an issue in the type of welding i do. I rarely MIG clean metal.
Pulling is always better, FCAW is a great example of why you should never push, because you will end up trapping slag and getting poor penetration. Pull at all costs and only push IF YOU HAVE TO. Pulling allows the arc to burn any slag that might end up in your puddle, as well as keeping the gas on your puddle at all times. You should only push if you have to.
More pulse mig videos. I watch both you guys and jody @welding tips and tricks, both channels seem to focus entirely on tig and stick. I would like to see more videos that can be applied the guys welding 7ga and under at 500” a minute.
For me, i find easier to pull if im welding a tight channel, ex. Pulling directly towards myself as appose to pushing directly away from me. In that example, i tend to get worm holes with flux core if i push.
I was expecting that ,i weld many outsidecorner joints on 1mm up to 3 mm sheetmetal and there you can tell a huge difference ,if i have a 0.5 mm gap on 1mm plate i can bridge the gap with a push angle with a drag angle i burn trough ,it saves me alot of time to set my machine settings up and down
He has flooding things to sort out,. Flooding only last a day or 2 but it's the clean up that takes ages to sort out. Been through 4 floods, and afterwards onetime heard a lady demanding to know when her son will be back working. She was thinking it'd be a week or 2 later. He told her the work place was under 30 ft of water and everything is gone, and he has to wait for the insurance to do inspections etc, he said he was hoping to be back in business in 12 months after the floods. And she was saying that's no good and he has to do something about it and he simply said get a job somewhere else as I don't have a company at all right now and everyone has lost their job pretty much, and that's all he could do. She still expecting the guy to pay the son a wage etc. Some people just don't get it
on the pull or Drag method you get more post heat to get more penatration to sink in compared to less post hyeat with the push meathod. it is tought through welding inspection courses & welding courses
you want to do a pull/drag procedure on the root pass to get the best penatration. After that you can change to push passes for the fillers & cap. pull/drag = deeper penatration and slightly convex weld push = less penatration but a more flat weld both have their uses
I was taught to push when I started MIG welding. It took me a while to get used to it since I had been pulling for many years doing arc (stick) welding. My big question is do you push or pull for flux core welding. I never had the chance to do that type of welding in 55 years of metal fabrication. Also on vertical welds it was top to bottom for MIG but bottom to top on stick.
Hello Dennis, here is my experience with it. Both MMA (Rods) and MIG (Solid wire, (MAG to be more precise)) can be run in both directions (Upwards and Downwards progression) during vertical welds. It is just a case that not all rods are suited to this in case of MMA and not all jobs require vertical UP on MAG with solid wire. It is often that Vertical down used in MAG welding as it is easier to achieve by the reasonably inexperienced welder. Vertical UP on MAG is little more tricky not on the welding technique but on setting parameters right as margins for the error becomes more narrow. It is my strong opinion that MAG and MIG are the hardest welding processes to learn, mostly to the fact that it is simply too easy to do it wrong. As far as Flux core wires go, you would want to pull with them as they have flux in them and if you push the flux runs on the front ow weld puddle. If you welded with rods you will be familiar with the filing of discomfort when you see the flux all of way around your rod, the same filling gets to you if you try to push flux core wire. Vertical with Flux core is UPwards for the same reason, way better control and results. The main advantages of flux core wires are: a. A wider range of different alloys available in flux core. b. Weld depositions rates are ridiculously high c. weld pull solidifies very quick d. Lover heat transfer into the parent material (a personal opinion that is open for debate) MiG, on the other hand, is one of the processes used for welding Alu. If you interested in Aluminium i have a video on my channel that is titled "Types of Aluminium welding..." you can find out little more info from that. Hope i answered your question.
I program robotic welders fro a living. Both techniques are applicable for different situations. Thinner material with irregular fitment is better to push. Thicker material will work either way. Also I have to deal with fitting torch heads into tight spaces that dictate how I can weld the part. Most of the time I have to put a wider weld on thin material so I push. If I'm welding HD backrests with mild steel I pull slightly because they are thick.
Great vid. One thing that comes to my mind especially if you do a short circuit test instead of spray arc. Why would you restrict yourself to same settings and speed, in real world I would adjust my settings and speed to produce the weld I want. I would not force myself to use same settings on push vs pull? Just food for thought, you might need a little slower speed on pull or different welder settings to get proper weld.
I had a bunch of old timers teach me, I like to push pretty much everything (dudes cut their teeth in the 80s). It's the operator really. It you can do it pulling and that's what you like, do it.
love your jacket its like a johnny cash style. ;) as the push and pull i goes both way it really have to do how much work area u got and how thick the metal is and type too.
Most viewers at home are going to have 200-225 amp machines , if that, and they will barely do spray. I think problems will be more important with short circuit. So that makes this a video for supposedly trained professionals in a full blown shop. Maybe a retraining after being exposed to myths or a school that only taught one way. But you do have to run reverse direction occasionally and that should be covered.
that very last clip of the outtakes had me laughing my ass off like the dude who said it . thanks for the video and the knowledge! I’m curious to see how those travel angles affect the results of the tests u guys just ran.! personally i like the results of the second microetch just because it appears to have better penetration between the two pieces
Did I miss what wire size and gas flow as them may make a difference , but great test. Last week I made some cradles for a couple of heat pumps and I used push and pull just depended of where the weld was. I used 035 e70-s6 30 cfh 75/25 21v 360 ls seemed good either way but not tested. like you guys did . I find welding so variable sometimes it is hard to say what is best, I doubt I will never know it all.
Question, and correct me if I am mistaken, but is not 75/25 the most common mig gas used? But you guys used 90/10. Why is this and would that actually make a difference in the tests?
Good question. I used 90 - 10. Not by choice at first but my bosses choice. When I started at a new job it was my choice and although it was more expensive I stuck with the 90 - 10.
@@madcapmagician6018 I can't really explain well as I'm not a welding engineer, but from what I remember reading, it has to to do with ionization of particles and the energy in the arc. Something about the large CO2 content doesn't allow the spray arc to form, while no CO2 causes a different effect. With c25 at the higher voltages you don't get a spray transfer, bit rather globular transfer, and from what I understand, that's not a desirable method of metal transfer. Have a Google of spray transfer. You'll read for a decade. PP
yep, more or less what I expected. depends a lot more on what you _can_ do at the time. some joints got your head stuck in weird spots and you can't see the weld if you use one method, so you have no choice but to use the other style. so long as your angles aren't crazy it doesn't make a difference, but I'd say if he does this test again with +/- 20˚ or more then pull would come out better
I've guessed pull, cause you're still aiming the heat towards the puddle, and the shouelding gas at the puddle allowing it to stay evenly hot longer. Just a thought. Where the hell you get that welding robot hot a link?
Is it the same for vertical up? Was under the impression that pushing helped eliminate drooping, as arc directed at new cold metal. I’m only a novice...
I've always pushed i have tried pulling but don't really care too.. but stick and flux core i pull would like to see a push or pull test done with 045 flux core
Makes no difference. ...... unless you're pulling someones finger. I did like the conclusion however that if you are seeing a difference, you're doing it wrong. LOL, nothing better than watching someone talk smack about how pulling is better or pushing is better because they get much better results and you over there knowing the reason is because they are outside of their ideal parameters and therefore doing it wrong.
I was taught from the beginning of my welding career to push not pull. For mig welding and the video you showed doing these welds shows that a computer dozer can't weld like a real welder. I could hear the changes as it ran the pass. This is why we need to teach people how to weld and not use computers. You have to know when to push and when to drag. You learn how to and when to from a master not a book or a youtube video.
Well done bearded one, thank you for not trying to sell me shaving supplies. 👍
You're very welcome... Although it is fun seeing how far we can push the envelope on the sponsored ads. We had maybe a little too much fun on that one.
Push,? pull? I just wiggle the gun around until the parts don’t fall apart when I unclamp them.
Brian
My wedding style as well!
🤣
So if you can pull a tooth are you a dentist? Just because you can hold a couple pieces of metal together doesnt mean you're a welder.
@migiddymike1403 eughh yes sir. Many teeth I've lost 😁. I'm what they call *professional*
Neither has equal toes.
I was taught to always push with mig when I went to tech college, but when I got out in the world I quickly found that you could not always push so I would pull. Now I just do what I have to do to get the job done.
If it's stupid but it works, it's not stupid!
with mig it's not so bad, less risk of inclusions but notice how the pull sagged and has unequal toes.
I do both PUSH and PULL. All depends upon the access I have to the joint that needs to be welded. Sometimes, I will use both approaches on the same project, just because of access to the area that requires the weld. Great video.
tom fleming i do exactly the same. And now thanks to this video im not going to worry about pulling so much
Yeah! It’s good to know either way is getting good penetration.
Sooo many people will still want to argue this and pretend they didn’t see the proof. Excellent content once again guys 👍
Jody confirmed this awhile back. Trying to convince people on the job is a whole other story
He did. We've been getting a lot of questions about it and we wanted to do it a little differently, which is why we threw it on the Binzel tractor and take as many variables out as we could.
You're supposed to only push but real life will mean there's times where you need to pull or you want a flatter weld for grinding afterwards.
And there's no real major problems going either way, though, after all this welder is inputting 233.3mm of wire a second, you will be hard pressed screwing it up.
Much like vertical down was a huge no no but on mig you are pumping in enough wire to negate the problems you'd have with stick and tig.
Obviously Jody is a legend but this was a very scientific test with that tractor thing. They do need to try with steeper angles though. I wonder what the point of such superfine polishing is. Presumably it reveals more details than just where the weld basically is?
Polishing the metal removes all the scratches that regular old sanding/grinding would leave behind which would hide the grain structure of the metal. You wouldn't be able to see the welded area like at the 9:00 mark.
@kykingz78 yeah no kidding I see guys at my job running dual shield like its mig, one thing I always think about is if you got slag you drag
After mig welding for 30 years, I do both. When I used a NAP universal welder, it used a slight push and also used 90/10. I used 92/8 as well and Gold Gas steel mix extra with no problems
Why 90/10 I've only ever seen 80/20 in the UK
@@chrisplayz253 Higher C02 gives deeper penetration. Argon is a good ,"wetting", agent, it gives a flatter, neater weld. Argon is also essential to achieve a true spray transfer, anything lower than 90%(I think it's 90%, I cant remember off the top of my head.) and you can't get full spray, it'll have a slight bit of globular transfer too.
People always talk about push or pull but the bottom line is, u do either one of the two depending on what youre welding. Sometimes things can be in ur way while welding to possibly do one of ur choice. When u can, u should push a mig weld but if u cant then obviously youll need to pull it instead.
Not surprised due to spray transfer. You should have done short circuit, you will definitely see a difference and it will be very enlightening. I'm not going to spoil it here. Just use same test rigging and methods using short circuit only.
That's one of the best videos I've seen around. I simply love when alll parameters are held fixed except one, and than the results can be compared. This is the kind of procedure that lets you learn plainly about welding parameters. Also the metallographic study is amazing. Congratulations on the great work
Thanks for the in depth look at this.
Would be interesting to see tests done with short circuit transfer as well as more torch angle.
Love the tech explained.... thanks for being specific.... great to hear a CWI...... PB
Great video. When I spray arc’d dozer frames in the late 90’s, early 2000’s pull/drag technique was forced upon us. Almost everyone in the last 20 years has preached push mig, or if slag- drag.
Another great way to verify this test on a bigger scale is to use a small machine. It becomes inherently more evident, the smaller the machine.
It looked like to me the pull sample had slightly better penetration on the upright. Thanks for keeping us knuckleheads informed.
the pull/drag method did have better penetration then the push
Ditto. It DID seem apparent from this vid. Loved the fact this was the FIRST video I've seen to look at it from a 'microscope-metallurgical' stance for penetration.
Yes it did. And you will see a massive difference in short circuit method instead of spray.
I miss Bob. Hope all is going well for him and he's back turning out videos when hes ready.
Great video. As a carpenter and hobbyist, the wider deeper information into welding isnt very critical to my needs, but I enjoy learning and your videos are great for that.
Bob is out temporarily to take care of some personal items. He will hopefully be back soon.
Like you said if you been welding awhile you’ll know out in the field or in the shop you gotta make different welds in different angles. Sometimes you can’t push, and sometimes you can’t pull. Do what you gotta do🤷🏻♂️ it’s like if you’re right handed you better weld better left handed 💪🏼
Jacob Flores there is a lot o truth to that I’m left handed and weld right handed better lol
But I also golf,bat and throw right handed but play hockey left handed lol
I do both. Push and pull. It all depends on angle n voltage used. Speed determines how the weld looks. Smooth or lumpy.
In a production setting I've found what ever you feel most comfortable with at the time. Most of my work has been automated heavy industrial and heavy truck (10yd concrete mixers NOT cement mixers!)
I have always preffered pulling simply because it allows me to have a more comfortable angle to see the weld puddle riht handed as I am in most of the welding I do, glad to hear it basically doesn't matter though in case I need to push in oddball positions.
I do both at work daily, it depends on the position, where my gun is at, if something's in my way, how strength critical the joint is, etc. but generally I prefer to pull simply for visibility's sake
of course I only pushed for 2 years while at school
Really cool video, very basic, but solid. I push or pull foremost based on access to what im welding, but mainly ill push on thinner and pull on thicker
Thanks for the demo on the micro etch.
I always pull, only reason was to trail the gas on the weld, but I appreciate what was done here.
I push most of the time, unless I need to get around something. I like to push because the arc lights my way. When doing fcaw , I like to pull because the bead tends to come out nicer.
Youve got to pull fcaw or u get slag in front of the weld
Yeah, sometimes it's just an end result thing
Excellent video and well executed. Pulling seems to keep the puddle fluid longer creating better mixing filler/parent material. When I push the heat seems to be on the work peice more than the puddle leading the way.. Unless its vertical up. Try preheating to 150°.
that's the whole aim, to keep as much heat as possible in the work piece and as little excess heat in the weld pool as possible.
I would have liked to see short circuit tested more than spray as short circuit is more widely used for the home gamer.
Jody has done a video on short circuit push vs pull check it out !!
We can do it with short circuit.
@@chrisplayz253 Roger that I have seen it, but he did not use a robot that is the reason i want to see them do short circuit to take out the human element.
A lot of times when I am welding thin material with a close fit-up, I will push because I can go faster with more heat. But poor fit, I generally reduce the heat, use more tip movement and keyhole through it. When I pull, I generally end up with more heat in the weld even with a lower setting.
My two cents worth is practice push and pull because you will find some jobs you wont have a option, it will be one or the other.
Last place I worked they had a rule that all welds were to be push. No one ever explained why that was. They also did down verticals which now that I'm learning a bit more might have been the cause of a lot of their problems.
I just find it fascinating that all these "welders" debating push vs pull have never been able to run a quick bead plus bend and etch....i immediately noticed more root fusion with pull. I generally push on thinner metal and pull on thicker. I started with stick and fcaw on half inch and up, so pulling was a natural to me.
I did testing straight away because people at work had this "you can't pull mig" attitude and found next to no difference.
6:35 are we not going to talk about how absolutely flawless that girls writing is?! 😳
I write like that. Worked with a guy that would hand write wire tag labels that you would think were machine made. I always tired to get as good as his stuff, just don't have it in me.
Push preheats the metal and thus gives deeper and faster penetration. The hot beam that comes from the arc will preheat the metal, on both MIG and TIG.
On horizontal fillet welds, the weld will fall downwards. When pushing, the gas will push the weld out to the sides, giving you a 45 degree fillet weld instead of a 30 degree fillet weld.
Great video guys can’t ask for any more accurate results than that 👊🏻👍👍
Thanks for the feedback Chris.
I push and pull welds. It all depends on my positioning over the work. If i think penetration is going to be an issue, i bump up the heat. My ESAB mig doesn't seem to care either way.
If I'm doing bench work, i tend to push for prettier results. But i dont see micro fractures as an issue in the type of welding i do. I rarely MIG clean metal.
Ending outtake = a like! This was typed by the 15 year old in me... That is such an interesting process, thanks for sharing it!
The way I was taught when I was in school for gas metal arc welding was that you pushed on thinner metals and you pulled on thicker metals
Yeah thats what I was taught
Apples to Apples. Nice man. The results are very similar to Jody's results
Cant wait to see what different angles do
I like your tiny monitor 👍
Pulling is always better, FCAW is a great example of why you should never push, because you will end up trapping slag and getting poor penetration. Pull at all costs and only push IF YOU HAVE TO. Pulling allows the arc to burn any slag that might end up in your puddle, as well as keeping the gas on your puddle at all times. You should only push if you have to.
That was an awesome episode
I’m going to pull my TiG welds from now on. Great video!
This is mig not tig, won't work well dragging tig.
More pulse mig videos. I watch both you guys and jody @welding tips and tricks, both channels seem to focus entirely on tig and stick. I would like to see more videos that can be applied the guys welding 7ga and under at 500” a minute.
For me, i find easier to pull if im welding a tight channel, ex. Pulling directly towards myself as appose to pushing directly away from me. In that example, i tend to get worm holes with flux core if i push.
I was expecting that ,i weld many outsidecorner joints on 1mm up to 3 mm sheetmetal and there you can tell a huge difference ,if i have a 0.5 mm gap on 1mm plate i can bridge the gap with a push angle with a drag angle i burn trough ,it saves me alot of time to set my machine settings up and down
Outstanding
Really expected the reverse, but I think I could see why a pull might penetrate more- definitely wider and maybe somewhat deeper
Great info but how's Bob nobody is saying how about Bob we all wish him well God bless .😨
Curtis von Epp what happened to Bob?
Bob is taking a few weeks to take care of some personal items on the home front. He will be back.
He has flooding things to sort out,.
Flooding only last a day or 2 but it's the clean up that takes ages to sort out.
Been through 4 floods, and afterwards onetime heard a lady demanding to know when her son will be back working. She was thinking it'd be a week or 2 later.
He told her the work place was under 30 ft of water and everything is gone, and he has to wait for the insurance to do inspections etc, he said he was hoping to be back in business in 12 months after the floods.
And she was saying that's no good and he has to do something about it and he simply said get a job somewhere else as I don't have a company at all right now and everyone has lost their job pretty much, and that's all he could do.
She still expecting the guy to pay the son a wage etc.
Some people just don't get it
I'm a mechanic. I do alot of exhaust. I use both styles. I've had to also use wide angles and too close. Some situations differ.
One other thing, could you guys do this test again with short circuit transfer and show the difference between spray and ss transfer?
I second on that one!
Well done, keep up with great videos
on the pull or Drag method you get more post heat to get more penatration to sink in compared to less post hyeat with the push meathod. it is tought through welding inspection courses & welding courses
you want to do a pull/drag procedure on the root pass to get the best penatration. After that you can change to push passes for the fillers & cap.
pull/drag = deeper penatration and slightly convex weld
push = less penatration but a more flat weld
both have their uses
Cant wait to see the greater angle increase ones, has to be greater penetration on the pull/drag, and a change of gas flow over the weld pool.
I run whatever I feel more comfortable and stable with depending on the scenario and position
So interesting results
Are the 10 dislikes from those crotchety old-timers who sit in the corner of the shop yelling Everytime they hear someone pull the weld?😁
I was taught to push when I started MIG welding. It took me a while to get used to it since I had been pulling for many years doing arc (stick) welding. My big question is do you push or pull for flux core welding. I never had the chance to do that type of welding in 55 years of metal fabrication. Also on vertical welds it was top to bottom for MIG but bottom to top on stick.
Hello Dennis, here is my experience with it. Both MMA (Rods) and MIG (Solid wire, (MAG to be more precise)) can be run in both directions (Upwards and Downwards progression) during vertical welds. It is just a case that not all rods are suited to this in case of MMA and not all jobs require vertical UP on MAG with solid wire. It is often that Vertical down used in MAG welding as it is easier to achieve by the reasonably inexperienced welder. Vertical UP on MAG is little more tricky not on the welding technique but on setting parameters right as margins for the error becomes more narrow.
It is my strong opinion that MAG and MIG are the hardest welding processes to learn, mostly to the fact that it is simply too easy to do it wrong.
As far as Flux core wires go, you would want to pull with them as they have flux in them and if you push the flux runs on the front ow weld puddle. If you welded with rods you will be familiar with the filing of discomfort when you see the flux all of way around your rod, the same filling gets to you if you try to push flux core wire. Vertical with Flux core is UPwards for the same reason, way better control and results.
The main advantages of flux core wires are:
a. A wider range of different alloys available in flux core.
b. Weld depositions rates are ridiculously high
c. weld pull solidifies very quick
d. Lover heat transfer into the parent material (a personal opinion that is open for debate)
MiG, on the other hand, is one of the processes used for welding Alu. If you interested in Aluminium i have a video on my channel that is titled "Types of Aluminium welding..." you can find out little more info from that.
Hope i answered your question.
I program robotic welders fro a living. Both techniques are applicable for different situations. Thinner material with irregular fitment is better to push. Thicker material will work either way. Also I have to deal with fitting torch heads into tight spaces that dictate how I can weld the part. Most of the time I have to put a wider weld on thin material so I push. If I'm welding HD backrests with mild steel I pull slightly because they are thick.
Also the way you have to weld will dictate the method. Pushing a vertical down will cause the puddle to drip more then pulling it.
I am a fan of stick welding and i base my technique in MIG on stick, so i prefer pull.
For me it depends on the joint, and the accessibility. Every welder should be able to do both.
Great vid. One thing that comes to my mind especially if you do a short circuit test instead of spray arc. Why would you restrict yourself to same settings and speed, in real world I would adjust my settings and speed to produce the weld I want. I would not force myself to use same settings on push vs pull? Just food for thought, you might need a little slower speed on pull or different welder settings to get proper weld.
ABC. Always Be Comfortable when welding so push or pull according to the job.
That is what I do anyway.
Have you considered testing vibrational stress relief and welding. Strength difference is insane.
I had a bunch of old timers teach me, I like to push pretty much everything (dudes cut their teeth in the 80s). It's the operator really. It you can do it pulling and that's what you like, do it.
How about straight on ?
love your jacket its like a johnny cash style. ;) as the push and pull i goes both way it really have to do how much work area u got and how thick the metal is and type too.
Most viewers at home are going to have 200-225 amp machines , if that, and they will barely do spray. I think problems will be more important with short circuit. So that makes this a video for supposedly trained professionals in a full blown shop. Maybe a retraining after being exposed to myths or a school that only taught one way. But you do have to run reverse direction occasionally and that should be covered.
that very last clip of the outtakes had me laughing my ass off like the dude who said it . thanks for the video and the knowledge! I’m curious to see how those travel angles affect the results of the tests u guys just ran.! personally i like the results of the second microetch just because it appears to have better penetration between the two pieces
Use this serup to test the cheap wire vs lincoln wire
I find pushing a little with fluxcore wire, welds come up looking better with the millscale...
I prefer to pull but where i work we use .052 metalcore. You gotta push that when its spraying
drag the slag on gasless or stick because both have slag deposits because ya cannot weld over slag, with gas its whatever makes you happy.
Thank you for video
Did I miss what wire size and gas flow as them may make a difference , but great test. Last week I made some cradles for a couple of heat pumps and I used push and pull just depended of where the weld was. I used 035 e70-s6 30 cfh 75/25 21v 360 ls seemed good either way but not tested. like you guys did . I find welding so variable sometimes it is hard to say what is best, I doubt I will never know it all.
Magical job
Thank you
Where did you buy that yellow, and green welding shirt, and that yellow cap from?
Herbert Moore the jacket is from Western Welders and the cap is from Southern Colorado hats.
Wow, really interesting! Thanks for the effort :)
Do this test again with more angle on the gun push weld didn’t look aligned with corner. I do both
A foreman at Vulcraft told 45° x 45° angle when pushing
Question, and correct me if I am mistaken, but is not 75/25 the most common mig gas used? But you guys used 90/10. Why is this and would that actually make a difference in the tests?
Good question. I used 90 - 10. Not by choice at first but my bosses choice. When I started at a new job it was my choice and although it was more expensive I stuck with the 90 - 10.
90/10 (or similar ) is needed for spray transfer.
@@merr6267 could you please explain why?
@@madcapmagician6018 I can't really explain well as I'm not a welding engineer, but from what I remember reading, it has to to do with ionization of particles and the energy in the arc. Something about the large CO2 content doesn't allow the spray arc to form, while no CO2 causes a different effect.
With c25 at the higher voltages you don't get a spray transfer, bit rather globular transfer, and from what I understand, that's not a desirable method of metal transfer.
Have a Google of spray transfer. You'll read for a decade.
PP
@@merr6267 Thanks for your reply. I was wondering too.
I always pull and have had the most luck with that
what is that hood? it looks comfortable
Ryan Bumgardner it’s an Outlaw leather hood. By far my favorite.
By hand it's not a little thing to change direction. You see your marks when you pull cutting.i cut both directions with truck or by hand.
I tend to push, feels more natural to weld towards me then the other way around.
haven't watched the video yet but from what I know: you push for spray transfer; for short arc either can work, but pull is generally better
yep, more or less what I expected. depends a lot more on what you _can_ do at the time. some joints got your head stuck in weird spots and you can't see the weld if you use one method, so you have no choice but to use the other style. so long as your angles aren't crazy it doesn't make a difference, but I'd say if he does this test again with +/- 20˚ or more then pull would come out better
Hey can you do different transfer modes, particularly short circuit and dual shield?
I've guessed pull, cause you're still aiming the heat towards the puddle, and the shouelding gas at the puddle allowing it to stay evenly hot longer. Just a thought. Where the hell you get that welding robot hot a link?
That silicon is a huge deal it's why a gma weld is so weak with out being heat treated compared to sma welding and gra welding .
Is it the same for vertical up?
Was under the impression that pushing helped eliminate drooping, as arc directed at new cold metal.
I’m only a novice...
can you guys do a etch and polish on a vertical up and vertical down weld with solid wire mig please
We'll add it to the list
I've always pushed i have tried pulling but don't really care too.. but stick and flux core i pull would like to see a push or pull test done with 045 flux core
It's coming soon.
buenisimo colorado
Makes no difference. ...... unless you're pulling someones finger. I did like the conclusion however that if you are seeing a difference, you're doing it wrong. LOL, nothing better than watching someone talk smack about how pulling is better or pushing is better because they get much better results and you over there knowing the reason is because they are outside of their ideal parameters and therefore doing it wrong.
On a side note, when is the blooper special episode coming?
Watch the weld cart build series. Bloopers for days. One of these days we'll put together a full blooper video
Only time I think it matters is if you are migging aluminum. Gotta push with aluminum
Right or wrong I usually pull.
Push!!!
What about fcaw? I was taught to pull.
i prefer pull, about 5/10 degrees, because i can better see the puddle.
I was taught from the beginning of my welding career to push not pull. For mig welding and the video you showed doing these welds shows that a computer dozer can't weld like a real welder. I could hear the changes as it ran the pass. This is why we need to teach people how to weld and not use computers. You have to know when to push and when to drag. You learn how to and when to from a master not a book or a youtube video.
Pull looks a bit flatter. Does that really matter?