You Don't Need More Travel, You Need This
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2024
- Turns out 145mm is more than enough, apparently. Check out IMBY's Highlander 2 Super Sale here! wheelsbyimby.ca/pages/deviate...
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0:00 Intro
0:15 The Magic Machine
1:14 Disclosure
1:43 BULLET DODGER
6:23 Braap
7:34 A Wild VanCan
8:39 Good Garbage
9:43 Lower Ladies
11:07 Empress
11:26 UPPER ELEVATOR KOM - กีฬา
How much travel is too much travel? 📏
It’s al relative to the trails you ride. I have 140/160 and it’s more travel then I need for my local trails… but half the time when I ride other trails it’s just perfect
It depends 😂
looking at the jumps we built at our hometrails: you can't have enough travel (We skip building landings)
I think that doesn't exist. It depends on how the bike rides in the end. A bike with 140mm travel front and rear, but a 60° head angle and 470mm chainstays will be more strenuous to ride on S2-S3 trails than a 170/160mm bike with a 65° head angle and 445mm chainstays. You can also ride trails with a 180mm bike if you weigh 130kg and other bikes collapse under you 😂
Too much travel is definitely 100% objective, bikes shouldn’t be more than 150 rear, anything other than that is too much (i say half ironically because you will only reeeally need more than 150 if you’re absolutely ripping and wearing some stormtrooper armor against a clock, for everyday riding 140-150 rear keeps you from getting into too much trouble
Dude, I remember subscribing back when you had about 40k subs. I just realized how many you have now, that’s unbelievable. Great job!
🚀📈🌚
Oh yes it is impressive. It went up so fast
WOAH WTH you're right - didn't even notice!! Good content gets you subs ;)
@@DaleStone ya thats insane, was here a 9 i think.... i hadnt actually noticed you were at nearly 300k now... well deserved!
Same here!
I love how well timed this is, given Henry's PB article on the uselessness of All-Mountain bikes.
I just built up a Highlander and I am thrilled by it so far. Big smiles all around
It's really a fantastic bike, have a great summer on it! 🤘
How do you think the druid v2 compares? Is the Highlander 2 more capable?
Stepping up the content game big time Dale. Love it. 🔥🔥🔥
🫡
What utterly stunning trails.. you are damn lucky to have those... Nice riding....
After gaining 260.000 subs more i finally see the face behind those nice flows. Congrats and ride into a million.
😊😊gyi l olle a
the flow was insane in all that chunk. I hope the trail builders, bike builders, and you are all happy. Awesome ride!
Impressive skills and that trail is so sweet. Your speed is fun to watch. Looking forward to seeing more
Dale - these are some seriously well put together decents! Incredibly jealous of the terrain and elevation drop 🤯
Really cool to see how good you've gotten at biking and I've been watching since you had 12 subs pro level now.
12?!
The way you ride some of these trails is truly remarkable. Looking to get out for my second ride of 2024 this afternoon, and might hit Braap or Garbage which were both featured in this video… but it won’t look ANYTHING like this lol! Great job and congrats on the PRs, especially Lower Elevator - that’s amazing to push the PR/KOM by that much in a single ride.
Percentage wise that run was pretty ridiculous, but it wouldn't have been possible without the amazing work of the builders over the past year! 🙌🏻
Absolutely love mine! Just upgraded to coil on both ends with avy internals and it rips!
Great riding, on beautiful trails!
Man, high pivot is really taking off. Let me think, Druid, Slash, Jedi, Range....I'm sure there are more. What a great trail! Kept waiting for a Velociraptor to pop it's head out of a fern. Clever girl :-]
Jedi has been around for a while, a real trendsettter.
Like anything in mtb, people flock to the trends due to clever marketing
Although a true statement in general, Deviate has been making high pivots since long before most other brands. They certainly aren't doing it because it's trendy, they do it because it makes for better bikes.
@@DaleStone I more meant for end consumers purchasing things not so much for Deviate themselves. Seems like people will move on from perfectly good bikes, components, etc for something which may or may not help them ride better due to heavy media influence or current marketing.
@@CalgaryDynastar agreed! The power of marketing haha. 🥲
I went back and watched some of your content from 2020 (when I first started watching) and DUDE, the progression is crazy to watch going back and forth. 2020 Dale was still probably a better rider than 2024 Duncan, but you've just been on another level this past year.
Haha thanks Duncan, it's been an amazing handful of years! 📈
Making this trail look easy. Ive ridden it a few times and i know your almost twice as fast. That's impressive!!
Same sentiments on my Druid v2, punches well above what you’d expect it to. I still love a dreadnought rip and sometimes there is no replacement for big travel. But color me impressed
Your bikes are lovely.
Just like your content ❤
Your pov stuff always gets me stoked to go ride.
Nice brakes 💜
High pivots are awesome, especially paired with the best shocks and balanced with the best forks.
You have such sick trails to ride!! I'm so jealous
Jesus , this was amazing. Almost as amazing as those yellow berd spokes . Great video dale!
Thanks Adam!
I agree with the statement that as long as you don't jump large, typical bike park stuff, a 130-150 rear travel "with enduro angles" is enough. It is not without reason that one of the best bikes I have ever ridden were Pivot Switchblade I or Canyon Spectral 125.
High Pivot Magic ftw! Just built up a Forbidden Druid V2 and on the local trails it feels agile and punches above its travel. I do have a Dreadnought as well, which does feel like more and rides more smoothly on rough trails but feels sluggish on fast, tight trails.
Insane riding skills!👍
100% - A lot of us are overbiked on most of our local trails. More travel also usually comes with slight tradeoffs: higher BB, reduced efficiency, taller rider CG.
Exceptions to this video's assertions: heavier riders can benefit from more travel, which helps absorb greater energy over the longer travel length, preserving comfort somewhat. But too much travel, lack of progression can get sloshy. Increasing damping alone on a same-travel bike can't quite achieve the same feel.
Heavier riders also tend to be stronger humans! In theory I agree to an extent, but we don't see DH racers with more or less travel depending on weight, they're always around 200mm. Would be an interesting test though! 🙂
Us heavy riders may be stronger but have no endurance! My excuse is always "I want to see Dale strap a 70lbs weight to his back and pedal 30kms."
@@DaleStone nah, I disagree... the thing with the weight is not about the muscular strength - it's about the load on your bone structure
it's no secret that heavy animals can't run - they simply walk fast. the reason behind it is that the strength requirement is not linear at all, it's progressive. For example, if you weigh 50kg and run 15km/h, you won't require x2 Watts for 100kg person to get the same speed, it will require more - This is is the reason why T-Rex were slow AF compared to smaller predators
I have a 160mm bike, and arguably I don't need that travel for my local trails at all. However, when I hit a flat landing, my body endures a significant amount of pain. It's one of the reasons I don't ride hardtails at all. My GF weighs 55kgs an hacks to flat without any issues without giving a F :) This is also the reason why crashes affect me a lot more than her, however, she tends to have more brutal crashes.
If I do the same with my 90kg, my wrists and knees suffer a lot. And it's not like I'm fat or smth
I'd wish I had a more effective pedaling bike for more poppy feeling, but 150-160mm tends to fit my needs. However, if there are no big jumps, I enjoy 130m bikes a lot
As for DH riders - there is a reason why they have that amount of travel, as a 30cm obstacle is a 30cm obstacle and you have to roll over it and maintain speed.
You are riding with such confidence. Bring on the 5'ers!
Excited to see everyone's smiling faces again! 🥰
The trails in your region are absolutely amazing. I wish I had such great trails on my doorstep. There are good trails in the middle of Germany, but not on my doorstep and I always have to drive relatively far. There is simply very little forest in Germany because it has been destroyed by industry.
We are very lucky with how natural our backyard is here. 🙌
wow, impressive riding! we'd love to see more top 10 chasing 🔥
Dude, insanely fast. That new stuff on Garbage looks sick, I'll have to check it out this weekend.
It's awesome! But since it's a two way hiking trail on the weekends it's probably best avoided, haha. 😂
Great video buddy 🤘🔥
I see you've got those Hayes brakes on! Can't wait for the review!
Soon™!
My Altitude PP, high pivot ebiiike. It's amazing.
Ha-ha, by now we've all learned that trail from your videos! It's a banger indeed 🤙
We were going to joke that you don't need more than 0mm in the rear, but then again, we're not riding that pace 🤯🤩
Haha, give it a few years and I have no doubt you will be! 🙂
another excellent video.
More travel on the way up just means more fitness! Its like wearing a weighted vest for a workout
"I like his gloves"
- My 6 year old.
Fun vid Dale, as always.
Sounds like he needs some just like them to grow into! 😉
I'm kinda jealous of a lot in this video.....except the bike. Thankfully I have my very own Highlander, and it's honestly the best bike I've ever ridden!
The Claymore is more flattering to ride, but the Highlander lets you do more🤘
Exactly! I'm extremely lucky to have both, but I know which one I'm grabbing for big days or exploring new zones. 🙂
Just ordered the new Claymore MX frame!
And you got your hands on some purple Hayes. Looking forward to hearing your take on them.
👀
I love my highlander II. such a capable bike
Wow! You make look the trail flat! So fast Dale.....
deviate bikes are one of a kind, my highlander 150 is the best bike I ever had. I was thinking about buying claymore but nah, 160 front I and 150 rear is enough for me and trails in Poland
Great video Dale. Patiently waiting for your Hayes Dominion review. On a side not have you tried Formula Cura brakes?
Soon...™
And I've parking lot tested the Formulas before. I remember they had quite an aggressive lever spring. I'd be keen to try a set but they'd be towards the bottom of my list for now.
Got my first one on the bike stand right now, can't wait to see if it's gonna make me half as good as you :p
yooo, what are you ridding this year? Forbidden Dreadnought?
@@zombie981_ You'll have the confirmation in the new bike day vid pretty soon mate ;)
@@FreerideQuebec darn! Hope to see this soon! 😂
that idler-guard is very well considered!
Some smart nerds there for sure!
I am very interested in your opinion about the Berd spokes. Especially since you only seem to ride them on the front wheel. Or is that just coincidence?
this is a dream forest!
Awesome bike
Curious about high pivot on truly short travel bikes like the new Optic. I have a 2023 Optic and am really tempted (if we forget about the price) by the 2024 frameset.
Nice video as usual Dale! Given your knowledge base, attention to detail, and rider skill, I am curious to hear your take on how anti-rise plays out in the on-trail braking performance between the Deviates (Highlander 2 or Claymore) and the Norco Range. I guess the theoretical argument is that the single-pivot Deviates squat more and/or their rear suspension is less active than the inverted Horst-link Norco under braking. Is this in line with your experience riding both platforms or have you felt something different? Cheers
That isn't something that I'm looking for while riding, so it must be minor enough that I haven't noticed any substantial differences so far. 🙂
Damn dude. I hope to one day live there. So beautiful
Ye im rly looking for the new norco sight. Need to testride it. Deviate claymore ye only with the linkage for mullet.
I believe that's coming soon!
Wow Garbage has seen some work. Should head up there soon!
The builder has done a great job reviving it this year indeed! 🙌
Nice! Hayes Dominion, can't wait for your review.
Hopefully next video... 👀
@@DaleStoneeverybody talks about their lever action, would be cool to see a similar experiment from the last brake review
@@FOTB407 thankfully I don't need a water bottle to combat misleading marketing here. 🙂
@@DaleStone 😂😂
Thank you for the video Dale. Can you tell me what bike computer you are using?
It's an old Elemnt Bolt
Dale I’m curious to hear your opinion on the matter. Have you seen the MBR UK video of the Highlander vs Druid comparison?
High pivot bikes innately are able to reduce peak impulse force enacting on the suspension by simply increasing the time of diffusion. As a large object actuates the suspension the axle path is rearward thus the tire literally stays behind the object longer than an axle path that is more upwards and forwards. So diffusion over time. Not to mention the object naturally pushes the axle through its progression rather than the axle being forced forward past the object (counteracting velocities).
The presenter makes a pretty notable point though, what happens when a smaller bump impulse (I.e. 90% of trail obstacles) is enacted on the suspension. For example an obstacle small enough only to deform the tire and not actuate the suspension until it’s at its peak lift when it’s entirely beneath the tire and axle. Well its impulse is now directed straight up. An axle path that is now rearward becomes a problem rather than a normal design with a more linear path upwards and forwards. And arguably you might say most of the trails are these types of obstacles. I don’t know something to chew on, definitely give that video a watch very interesting!
I believe I watched that specific video a few years ago, haha.
My intuition says that this is something that makes more sense in theory than in practice. There are definitely certain impact directions that are better tailored to certain axle paths. But even if the impact direction is at an angle to the axle path (which I think your comment boils down to), I would argue that the idler isolating suspension forces from pedal kickback plays a more important role in reducing rider fatigue overall, even if the suspension isn't working as efficiently under certain conditions.
Anecdotally I don't feel this argument holds up while riding either, though its effects are probably very small. 🙂
@@DaleStone Fair point, I think that comment alone can sum up the majority of the bike industry haha. Conversely many "advancements" are very theory based and don't actually have much effect in practice.
For me personally I think switching to a 29er would give me the largest benefit over anything else right now but I love my Evil Calling too much. When riding in a group I notice by buddies on 29ers can coast and maintain speed on flatter and small downgrades whereas I have to give my bike a pedal every now and again to keep up. When it gets steep though all bets are off in fact I am faster in a lot of cases as I can maneuver and pop around things much quicker.
If you haven't done any videos on Mullets I'd definitely be here for 'em as would I imagine many. 27.5 is too playful and fun to completely give up.
@@on1ytheb3st I used to be a diehard 27.5 fan too, haha. No debating how much fun those smaller wheels can be! Could be a good video... 👀
@@DaleStone You said it! There's also something to be said about pushing a shorter travel sled to its limits like with your Highlander and being able find the red line and bounce off that limiter. Cheers Dale!
So smooth! I'm curious about what's that "ding" sound when you jump?
It's my bell of course! 🛎️
I have some concerns with the high pivot: the 2% increase in friction they say these things have is a minor problem, but you have less of the chain engaging with the chainwheel - I would think that in the long term, you'll be wearing out chainwheels faster (and maybe get some slippage in extreme cases 😬). The pedal kickback issue is a non-issue on descents - your forward motion negates any chance of this (unless you hit a big drop at low speed I guess). Climbing is actually where I suppose high pivots would really be different - NO pedal kickback on the ascent. Loving the content, dude!
Going back to a traditional suspension layout, I can say with confidence that the reduced pedal kickback on an idler bike is a noticeable advantage when descending. Less fatiguing compared to non-idler bikes at the same travel, and your feet won't come off! 🙂
You're right about chainrings wearing out slightly quicker, but I still find I can get ~1500km per ring, which is okay by me.
@@DaleStone My ride is a Horst link Norco Range with lots of travel... I test rode a Druid and couldn't feel any difference in kickback while descending - but I am not smashing trails like you are lol! The Druid was a total couch. Going up, the bumps just disappeared. Well they disappeared going down too 😝 Definitely confidence boosting bikes!
The majority of pressure and friction at the chain and chain ring interface happens on the first couple of links. The remaining links don't carry much load, so chainring wear should be very similar.
@@DaleStone I find the idea of less pedal kickback -> better retention to the pedals interesting. I don't have a HP rig to try, but it might be a good experiment with my 3* engagement RF hubs vs the 10* dt Swiss.
Wild level of fitness to ride this hard for 12+ minutes
💪🏻📈
How are the Delium tires performing? Are you running the rugged front and rear?
I run Rugged Reinforced on both sides and they've been great. Of course I'm biased, but I think they're the best rock/slab tire available. Very competent at the rest too. 🙂
@0:53 Your sad looking rear shock O ring says otherwise. 😂
LOL, I only use that for setting up sag, never to measure fun. But good eye. 😂
Most people will only have one bike and that bike will have to be a do it all. The more expensive that bike is the more likely you will be a bit more on the burly side than your averages rides, as well as the industry making more and more bikes for pointing down the hills it's a bit of a jam for everyone.
Personally I was focused on a Santa Cruz 5010 or maybe a Tallboy, but I had a hard time finding it in my size/spec/color at the time I was ready to purchase so I just had to look around. I ended up with a Pivot Switchblade instead simply because it was available. I could do with less travel a lot of the times, but I'm also not trying to set any world records anywhere so I've just accepted the bike I have. Can't afford to swop and I also feel it's a waste unless the bike you have is just really terrible or there's something wrong with it that cannot be fixed.
Sounds like the logic is to pick the smallest bike you can get away with... haha
Given the choice I'd generally choose more travel. Just gotta crank up the speed a bit and you'll use all the travel lol
160 is pretty dreamy
Did you shoot the POV on the insta 360 x3? It looks fantastic
I sure didn't, haha. DJI OA3!
Great bike and great riding. Any idea whats that rattling noise that you can hear on all the small bumps all over the video ? It made me crazy 🙃
Borrowed brakes with long hoses for testing/review.
Is high pivot the next big thing for mtb? Certainly looks like it though I must say my 160/150 Spectral is enough for me as well even despite being normally pivoted.
I've been on idler bikes for nearly three seasons now and won't be going back any time soon!
what app are you using to track your times??
Strava usually, but I mostly compare against myself by lining up my footage! 🤓
Yooo sick ride bro👊! I need to know where are those insane trails please 😅
Description
@@DaleStone oh my Bad 😅
Every bike like make me want to try like at a bikpart the easiest part would be great with that instead of an enduro but problem is we cant get every bike :p Enduro seem to be the greatest choise with air suspension but then again .. Too much rolling resistance for certain things maybe a second wheelset with different tyres could resolve that problem tought
The hard parts would also be great with this bike, as I hope I've demonstrated! 🙂
Maybe I missed it, but what frame size is this at what height? :-)
Medium at 176!
@@DaleStone Thank you very much!
Thoughts VS the Claymore? Picking my Claymore up from IMBY tomorrow lol. Was debating on going with the Highlander but my previous long travel bike was a Santa Cruz and the VPP firmness really never made it feel like a long travel bike, so I wanted to know what it was about
I love both bikes, and they're different enough that I'm glad (and lucky) to have both of them. The Claymore is the best pedalling long(er) travel bike that I have ever ridden, and will encourage you to go faster and faster. It's less precise as a result, but still one of the most fun bikes I've ridden. If I only had one I'd probably choose the Highlander, but don't overthink it haha, you're going to love it! 🤘
@@DaleStone stoked on it so far! First ride was Pangor at Seymour which was incredible, but I still need to work on tuning the suspension since it felt a bit harsher than I expected. I saw you at IMBY but didn't want to bother you haha, cute golden retriever!
If it wasn't such chaos in there with their big remodel then you should have said hi! Haha 🙂
Hayes Purple I see 👀
You shot that on Action 4 ? Footage seems very blurry and not sharp
Nope, 3
Try the loam lab Counterpunch... makes punching trees less painful lol. I've got a setif that was something you wanted to try
I honestly can't remember the last time I hit a tree, especially not on my ring finger haha. I have friends that swear by them though!
@@DaleStone Same, its one of those things that I only "use" them once in a blue moon but when I do I thank my lucky stars. I also just like the feeling of something small on the end of my bars when it gets squirrely to let me know where the ends of my bars are
My friend calls them "clipless for his hands" for this reason. 😂
@@DaleStone too good 🤣
+1 for the Counterpunch, saw it on some PB or GMBN bike check, had close calls with both hands and then ordered them, since then they saved both my hands countless times.
Hi Dale! Have you heard from Dangerous Dave? He's been MIA on all Socials. Hoping a trail hasn't gotten the best of him.
I rode with him on the weekend! I'm sure he'll be posting again soon as summer ramps up. 🙂
@@DaleStone Fantastic news! Thanks for the update!
About to see if I can mount my bell closer to my grip on my bars so I can be like U lol
What camera are you using ?
DJIOA3
@@DaleStone great Camera, Great videos, Please just don't use a 360 cam, keep up the good work.
Hmm...not the first time you have found yourself riding faster on a yellow bike. Proven science at this point.
It is the best colour for a reason! 💛
nice
-You don't need more travel
Me: more!
-Okay, okay! 200mil forks then?
Me: MOORE!!!
- :o
Running dominions heh? I thought you were a shimano guy. Do you plan on reviewing them soon?
Considering this Highlander is my test platform, absolutely! 👀
So I should consider the new Norco Optic over the new Rocky Instinct? I thought I had just finally made a decision...
Depends on where you live and the trails you ride of course. 🙂
I live in Kimberley. I'm worried about being overbiked all the time, but I feel like the 140/150 is a sweet spot, not only for here but for a lot of BC. I haven't looked much into the high pivots to see what the advantages are (I'll wait for your video on that). I honestly just assumed that the majority of people wouldn't notice the differences.
They're definitely noticable! Should have a more detailed piece up in a few months or so.
If I rode that fast I would surely die.
Has dangerous Dave been allowed a go on it?
He certainly has, but I'll let him fill you in on the details. 😉
want see more
Definitely the Hayes and not the bike 🙃🛎️
Purple anno is truly our weakness as a community.
@@DaleStone haha, too true
Dale how tall are you and what's your ride ready weight?
176cm and 64kg ish
I picked up a Claymore at the end of last year and only have a few rides on it. It's a bit much for the terrain in my area, but with me being 191cm and 95kg it's just right when things get rowdy.
hayes braketes video coming up?
👀
Idk Dale, wheelbase seems a bit longggg and then it grows!
Reasonable head angle keeps things in check haha. Trust that I like a playful bike! Still cleans Upper Oil Can and Imonator first try. 📈
@@DaleStone I know you like a quick pedal, how does it fair in getting up ?
@@Seebema it's a very competent climber. I don't notice the idler at all if that's part of the question!
@@DaleStone can you compare it to any of Evils bikes? Specifically the Offering?
Don't have enough experience on their bikes to draw an accurate comparison unfortunately
what happened to norco?
I no longer work there, so I can choose what I want to ride. 🙂
@@DaleStonehope you don't have hard feelings about those bikes. :)
@@Manetty6 no doubt they're great bikes, and I'm still good friends with the 8ish people I worked directly with!
Have you ever seen a grizzly bear while riding?
Not yet! But tons of black bears every year. 🐻
how are ur hayes dominions going
You'll have to wait and see. 😉
i'm afraid: i cannot buy a new bike everytime i see one on your chanel.
If dale was a dog he would be a spaniel
I'd definitely be a border collie after 3 cans of straight red bull.
I had a ton of problems with the idler and the link is a PIA to service. It did pedal well to be fair.
I've had no problems with either so far, and I have with some competitors.
Man, all that rattling noise would drive me nuts
This is what happens when you borrow brakes and cut them intentionally longfor a review/test, haha.
@@DaleStoneha, glad to hear it's something simple and temporary!
I don’t understand your reasoning also this video is lame. Just you riding.
I can ride a hard tail down these trails or an enduro bike on a XC race using your logic
When a mid travel bike breaks PRs on trails I've ridden with long travel bikes over 100 times, that's all the reasoning needed. You 100% would not PR on a hardtail or an XC race bike. And I make videos I want to watch. 🙂
@huckfin1598 I wouldn't say its lame but it is essentially a marketing video. most youtube channels have some sort of sponsorship that they need to promote as its their fulltime job. Look at any mtb youtube channel with 100k+ subs and there all showcasing you some sort of product. In my opinion its probably more cost effective for the brand to have one youtube ambassador or even a roster of them than to run a race team now. If you gave sam hill a hardtail to ride down these trails he would still be faster than all of us. It is really about rider skill than bike. Look at all the old bikes guys used to shred 20 years ago on the UCI dh tracks, they still rode extremely fast.
@99MrJ99 modern bikes are definitely getting pretty good, but not to the point where equipment choice doesn't matter. And at the end of the day, It's 1:42 of talking and 11:59 of some of the best footage I've filmed, IMO. 🙂
@@DaleStone Yeah the bikes within 130mm to 180mm and HA from 63-66 are pretty relative for the general rider. Its more when you increase the speed to a high level often on gnarly terrain that more travel is beneficial. Fatigue is also more of a factor if your riding like that for a long time on a short travel bike. I'm also a tank at 6'3 215lbs lol so I need the extra travel 😅. I enjoy your vids man great footage as always. cheers 👊 Oh and dont mind my comment about marketing lol its just an observation of the current state of youtube/socials really. I was bored at work and the brain is in marketing mode 🤣