Ridden RSCs, TRP DHR Evos, shimano XT, SLX, and deores and the lightest brakes I've ridden by far are the Hayes Dominion A4s. The have been fantastic for me and I've currently got my set on my ragley hardtail
Shimano saint. That being said I have a question that's burning a hole in me. Is each of the 4 caliper screws hollow for fluid transfer or just two? Or even maybe none and transfer ports?... Would be good to know
NONE of the big, professional review sites caught this obvious problem. And not only did you catch it, but you provided some relatively hard data to back it up. Nice work!
I believe that the red site mentioned that they felt the levers were "of a similar stiffness to codes, maybe a touch stiffer", or something to that effect. I guess it's harder to be objective when the product comes from one of your biggest advertisers...
Most big name reviews mention it, but don't go into detail...the most I've heard was that it's "more than the Code's" but that it shouldn't be an issue (I think that was PB)
Just installed these on my xl slash, absolutely love them! At 205lbs and a hack of a rider, these have saved my butt a few times already. I used to drag my brakes due to the lack of power and inability to stop me when I needed. With the huge power of the mavens I find that I can relax more and focus on being fast and loose, and have less hand fatigue as a result. I find every thing about them to be just right. I can understand where these might be to much for lighter smaller riders, but they were exactly what I needed.
I’ve noticed the same thing. With the mavens I’ve had the least amount of hand fatigue out of all of the other brakes I’ve ran (codes, saints, mt7). Zero complaints as well.
I'll third that comment. 68kg rider who suffers from carpel tunel these brakes have helped my hand fatigue end .you really don't need to squeeze these as hard as any other brake I've tried.
I really considered your review not to buy these brakes. I quite value your opinion but decided to get them anyway. I feel that these are the best brakes I’ve ever used it reduces arm pump and actually made me faster because it gave me confidence. I never got any fatigue in my hands as you described but I do regular the gym so I think that was a factor. I do want to mention that your review was very informative and quite detailed. I enjoyed your in-depth video’s and the direction you are going. Cheers
I'm glad they work for you! They're definitely not bad brakes, but a lighter lever feel would be a huge benefit with no drawbacks. It's a weird decision. 🙂
As a mechanic I have another point of criticism: the DB8 use a different bleed kit because they don't use the quick connect on the caliper, although they use the same fluid. This inconsistency is just unnecessary in my opinion and I just can't understand why SRAM didn't think of a simple maintanance related part like this.
I just did the same test on my bike to roughly see how my Hope Tech 4 E4 brakes compare. The lever started moving at 170g and the pads contacted the rotor at 220g. This is definitely one of the reasons why I love these brakes, my hands haven't hurt from braking since I got them. They also look way nicer than the Mavens!
Great review! It’s amazing how much difference rotor size makes. I just went from older 200mm SRAM rotors to 220mm HS2 on my codes and it’s night and day difference, they feel perfect.
Ha, the engineer in you really came out in this one! When I started riding back in 2020, I remember being most shocked by the hand pump and fatigue I experienced when first hitting legitimate MTB trails. Now of course, that was probably due to the death grip I had on my bars but, that aside, it was a highly unpleasant feeling and one which I’m glad I don’t experience often anymore (sustained descents notwithstanding). There’s no way I’d want to purchase and/or use brakes that made that feeling more likely. Nice review, and probably your best of the three so far. Too bad the brakes didn’t live up to your hopes and expectations. Btw, 225 comments after just three hours? Nice!
Thanks Nick, and I agree! I'll take any assistance I can get when it comes to reducing rider fatigue. Who wouldn't want to ride faster, further and for longer???
I'm sure BikeYoke or Problem Solvers will have something to make Shimano/SRAM compatibility work. I run M8120's with a BikeYoke adaptor for a SRAM X01 shifter.
Excellent review. Went through 3 other videos before yours and was irritated by all of them for total lack of objective real world experience. You delivered above and beyond. Thank you. Subscribed!
Brake modulation is the ability to precisely and accurately control the amount of clamp force on a rotor (or rim, which in some ways is just a big rotor, anyway) with a given amount of lever input.
Great review. The lack of compatibility with Shimano parts is particularly valuable information and something I haven't seen any other outlet mention. A more on off feeling brake might be the original Saints. The current Saints have been around for a long time now, but if you ever have a chance to try the originals I'm sure you'll be amazed that a Shimano brake ever felt like that. I'd love for you to review Hayes Dominions and Formula Cura brakes next. Those in addition to some TRPs will round out your brake spreadsheet.
It’s funny cause I’ve used sram guides for a while and that “lever feel” is exactly why I upgraded to magura mt7s, no longer is the first thing pulling me off trail my hands.
His review made me realise why I really dislike SRAM brakes (that and the crap bleed system and poor build quality). My bike came with Guides and I can't justify the spend on better alternatives at the mo annoyingly
I was looking to buying the maven and I normally take reviews like this with a grain of salt but I’ve seen many of your videos and I know what a good rider you are and I trust your judgment. I run Magura on both my ebike and regular bike I will stick with what works.Thanks and great video 👍
Dale! Excellent Job! Thanks for this. I just demoed a Transition Patrol w/ the Mavens and I was not all that impressed. I don't have huge hands and i'm very sensitive to arm pump. I am running TRPs on my current bike and I'm very happy with the initial lever pull.
Even if the Intend and SRAM brakes are not on my bucket list because of the outerspace prices, your videos are so well made and entertaining. Awesome, just as watch your riding only videos.
I upgraded the SRAM Code R's (which are garbage) that came on my Santa Cruz Heckler to these brakes. I was concerned having seen this video beforehand, too. But I did not notice any initial stiffness in the levers. What I did notice is way more bite, way more feel, and way less required input. Massive, massive improvement. Listen, if you're a 145lb waif with bitchfingers, you probably don't need these in the first place. But to the other enduro thickbois out there pushin' 2-3 bills, these are an excellent choice.
I hate you so much. I was looking forward to adding these brakes to my new DH build. After all those statistics, you have proven that I don't need these brakes, especially with over a hundred days in Whistler Bike Park, i still get hand fatigue. I don't want to be in pain the whole time. I will stay with my Saints. I was almost convinced to going back to Sram with all the hype. You earned my subscription 👏👏👏👏
Gimme a shout if you wanna discover Quebec's area at some point mate, I know a bit of the area including SDM, E47, MSA and I'll gladly shown around @@DaleStone
I’ve tried and raced every brake (but the maven) and the Dominions are my favourite brake. Lots of power, light levers, shockingly low maintenance. I’m blown away by them and shocked more people don’t ride them
Your video is 100% correct! exactly my experience. What I did to resolve this was I simply went back to my SLX levers, brake line connector is a direct fit so its super simple.. Now I have great Mavin calipers and great feeling light levers, no more arm pain! Been running this on my Levo all summer and love it, best of both worlds.
Maven calipers with SLX levers? That is an interesting setup. I'd be tempted to give that setup a go. Does it change the way the power comes on? Does it have that initial bite like shimano?
@@EOHRyan Sooooo much nicer lever feel with the slx levers. Also insanely easy as you can just plug in existing lines you already have. Used the Sram mineral oil and have never looked back. My first ride with the Mavens felt like is was at a bike park riding steep downhills all day, my right arm still has a bad case of tennis elbow from that first ride. Zero loss in braking power imo
Super helpful. Hand fatigue on a steep, technical downhill is one of the single biggest detriments to a good a ride and prolonged stress on hands has longer term impact.
Great review. I’m currently on the Hope Tech4 V4 and love those brakes. Perfect combination of lever power input / braking power. Quite a difference from the previous generation.
The Tech 4 just improves everything on the Tech 3. The feeling is better, the modulation is better, and the power is stronger. I didn't think there would be much difference, I went from both Tech 3 E4, and Tech 3 V4s, on to Tech 4 E4s and Tech 4 V4s, I couldn't believe the new Tech 4 was so much better. @@DaleStone
@@DaleStone Impressed by the quality! Not often do I watch without skipping through the clip. Btw, Hope Tech4s do also only need a very low initial force to be required to move the lever. Maybe a test in the future! ;)
@one Yes, that's right. Nothing a pair of gloves and some towels around the handlebar cannot handle :P I run 3 on my bikes and while the bleeding process is kind of annoying, they have been flawless since then. They strike into a perfect price point. I do not see how those mavens are competitive to Hope Tech4 V4s. They are identical in cost, but just the machining of the Hopes (just like the Trinity) and overall quality is on another level. In my opinion just the levers alone just look cheap :( Almost like the body is cast alloy of some sort. Which it probably is :D
I really appreciate your real review on the brakes, so many others only talk about the marketing stats. Also you destroyed those trails people have no idea👊🔥🔥
This is why I always buy Hope E4 brakes: DOT Fluid, single piece calliper, easy to bleed levers and mounting for all types of shifters, plus they look amazing
Sram's lever feel has always been so nasty. It's so strange to me that they hang their hat on that. I have a theory that people would like Shimano Brakes better if they sized down rotor sizes if they complain about them being to grabby. Dominions have the best lever feel that I've ever experienced.
Shuttle bro here, I still have to consciously manage my brake heat with 220s, the mavens look like a step in the right direction, but they should have thicker rotors and a much wider braking surface and pads too. Current brakes can't handle 800m of unrelenting steepness. I've turned 200s blue.
That title had me rubbing my hands together and heating up the popcorn! Edit: It's completely warranted IMO. You can't get more objective than that test. However, I would like to see more of them tested to see if it's a one off (very improbable). Great review mate. I appreciate your thoughts on these.
I've disclosed my biases and they did not affect the scoring. Does that mean that someone who rides SRAM brakes on their personal bike is incapable of reviewing other brands objectively? 🤔
Nice to see you in front of the camera! You seem to be a natural presenter/reviewer! This was one of the best and honest mtb gear reviews i have seen. Please post more of this in the future.
Love the honest review and the well thought and reproducible experiment on the brakes. If there is one thing I hate the most in my life is superficiality and marketing gimmick is among the greatest contributors of it.
I’ve watched a few of your videos but this one earned my subscription! Really well done and I appreciated your objectivity. I’m not a SRAM guy but I’m not a hater either. I’m glad to see what my initial thoughts on this brake were probably right. As I get older I’m learning not to buy into the hype and really focus on what’s going to improve my riding experience based on what I’m actually doing. I plan on upgrading my brakes. as much as I’d love a super high end bling brake setup simply swapping my front SLX 2-pot for a 4-pot caliper for $100 or less will be more then enough for my trail riding. Also shout out IMBY Bikes. Those guys built my wheelset back in Sept and they delivered an absolute masterpiece!
I was considering getting a set of the silver series Mavens to replace my Code R brakes, I’m glad I decided to hold off. I definitely want a lighter lever feel on initial pull. Hayes is at the top of my list currently.
Probably the best review on them I´ve seen. I wonder if the fatigue is significant for someon bigger. As a 130 kg heavy guy I am looking for a better brakes that will last me through rough descents. Right now I´m on sram guide R2 which are not bad, fatigue in finger doesn´t bother me, but the power does. I don´t know if I even need this much power, but it´s always to have more then you need then less when it comes to stopping. If I weighted less i wouldn´t even think about these, because seriously you will just lock your wheels without having force down on ground to stop you, or just not use their potencial.
I am 240 and own the Mavens. Best brake I’ve ever used in all aspects. No hand fatigue on long descents. I’m highly recommend them for big guys and can see why they don’t suit smaller fella’s.
Good, honest review, thanks. I've watched other reviews and they mentioned the hard lever pull but very quickly. No offense to any of them but most make money off Sram and don't want to upset their sales and advertising dollars.
Nice work! Since now I found only articles using probably print release, because wording was so similar, this is the first real test :) Still waiting for MT7s video :)
I really liked how you used scientific principles like 'repeatability' of the experiment you did. That's why science is science - repeatability and observation. I'm curious if you did this exercise more than one time to see what would happen if you kept repeating the experiment. That said, I can't believe my 10 year old Saint brakes are still my favorite brake EVER.
You should try a pair of Formula Cura's. They are not side specific either, they offer every single part as spares, and guarantee spare part availability for at least ten years after a product is discontinued. Also, they perform excellent.
I’ve put a few rides on my new Mavens and I could not be happier with them. The pull force seems quite easy to me and love the feel. The lever pull may not be to your liking, but to the lengths you went to emphasize your point seems excessive.
@@DaleStone Wait, what? Did you just say that? Your channel reviews products, and you just stated that your 30 minute video “isn’t so much about the product, but rather the misleading marketing “. Then why make the video? I am interested in honest product reviews, not bias stemming from ill received marketing campaigns.
A quick look at my channel would show you that product reviews are a small subset of what I do. And absolutely. A product should be reviewed against: a) it's competition, and b) the claims of the manufacturer. Nothing about the scoring section was influenced by the latter. But it's a very important point that warrants addressing. And in the end, it's all about the product. Hard to be more honest than that really!
I love it when someone calls out manufacturers on their bold claims. The wording used in some product launches is often nothing short of ridiculous. I would suggest that what Sram aren't telling you is that lever force they're referring to was measured as just a bare lever lever that wasn't connected to a fully bled system, and that all the excess friction you've mentioned is due to the calliper pistons.
Honestly I'm glad that they moved to mineral oil. I don't want to have to deal with a corrosive fluid any time I bleed my brakes. My new bike is coming with Maven Bronze so I'll test them out for myself soon. If they are good enough, I will keep them, but if they suck I'll put Maguras on there. Been using MT7 Pro for about 5 years and loved every moment. Even after 5 years they are still going strong and they have been moved between two bikes as well.
It seems to me that in general North American riders only think on SRAM or Shimano, but never on Magura's... why? I find the MT7pro are the best brakes ever, and I'm heavy. After having all sort of problems with teh above mentioned brands, I switched to Maguras 203/203 4 pots F/R and never had anymore issues 😎
Magura used to have a presence here, but due to reasons I'm too young to understand, they kind of disappeared and never really came back with the same force. I've spent some time on (and will review!) the MT7s. Generally quite good, but I always found they ramped up too slowly. Didn't get the chance to change out the lever though...
@@DaleStone that's the thing! The HC3 levers (which I have) have an adjustable pivot to change the leverage. So you can make them feel very on/off or very progressive. i have them adjusted around the 3/4 mark, towards the on/off... perfect! 😎
Great review! After riding the Mavens on two different bikes I reviewed, I honestly loved them however the feel of my Maguras as far as ease of pulling in the lever up to the point the pads start contacting the rotor. If I could blend the power of the Mavens with the ease of initial lever stroke of my Maguras I would think they have reached almost perfection. I am a large dude at 260 lbs and stopping power is important for me.
I totally agree with dale on the mt520. I bought a pair several years ago before dale probably even started his TH-cam channel because I was looking for a burly 4 pot brake at a great price. But since then I also have a lot of experience with sram code and guide and really don’t have any complaints besides the increased service interval. For me the increased force at the lever is barely noticeable, but then again i also go to the gym and do forearm exercises. I think if you’re relatively jacked, have deep pockets, and ride hard the maven is a good choice. However, I think you’re onto something with the suggestion that sram make the lever feel of this brake lighter. It might not be the easiest thing though, the brake being so stiff might be a reason for the great reliability. I’ve noticed that with lighter actuation brakes I have more issues with sticky pistons and inconsistent piston travel.
I am certain that there is more than meets the eye than SRAM deciding they like a heavy lever force. Also I'd like to think I'm pretty strong, but maybe that's just strength to weight and not raw strength... 😂
Dale what a great review. Appealed to the engineer in me! Given your love for the 520, would you consider a similar review of the DB8 as a brake for the people? With centreline/HS2/org/metalic pads from SRAM. I think they get a LOT of bad PERCEIVED press to the point of people avoiding buying bikes with them or immediately swapping them out without even trying them. Loads of modulation and power for the majority of riders.
I've yet to try a pair out on the trail, but the three or so sets that I've squeezed in the shop suffer from the same overly-stiff lever feel issues that I've dove into here. I think it would be a good idea to review them in the future though as a point of reference/comparison! 🙂
Really well done. Your deep dive on the stiff lever vs fatigue was excellent. As a certified big boy (currently 280lbs) I am always interested in more power but given my decidedly amateur skill level, sounds like these might not be the ones for me.
I beg to differ fellow Clydesdale. I’m 240 and have been using the Ultimate Experts for 3 rides now and I think they are excellent. I did a big ride in Cumberland the first day on them and found them very responses. I barely had to pull the lever to get the bite I desired. The ‘stiff’ lever feel didn’t translate to hand fatigue. I found once past the initial stiff pull the levers felt better than codes. Personally, Dale is a light weight. These brakes weren’t designed for his body type and hand strength if he feels they fatigue him that quickly. I 100% disagree with his entire review and recommend these for heavier riders with heavier bikes.
The fatigue is for sure real on these. I love my mavens thou. One thing that helped me tremendously was moving the lever closer to the bar , considerably closer than how I normally set up brakes.
I saw another reviewer saying they had a stiff initial pull bias, I am sure someone will offer a rebuild kit for the lever to provide lighter pull. Another great review, thanks again.
@@DaleStone why am i not surprised? :D btw: microshift advent-x would be a good addition in your "cheap but awesome" series. I like the drivetrain a lot.
I just bought a Nomad with Code RSC and i feel what you said. Previously Ihad XTM8120 and the difference is huge... not the power but that lever force to moove them!
Before I watch, I don’t mind the DB eights at their price point but I can only imagine how good these are considering most of other sram break options. XT for pots are the way I go and I’ve never let me down.
Great review, all I see when I look at these brakes "Tell me you're targeting weekend warrior e-bikers, without telling me youre targeting weekend warrior e-bikers". IMO it explains the entire reason for these brakes. Mineral oil? So that weekend warriors dont touch them. Bold styling? Look at me. Dont get me wrong, I love seeing new products! But I'll skip this one. Bigger brakes stop you quicker, is possibly the biggest marketing line people can fall for
A very comprehensive video Dale. I've never ridden brakes other than SRAM Codes (they have just been the stock brakes on bikes I've had), but have always found myself with hand fatigue. I knew it was because I was just on the brakes more than I should, but not being the most skilled it's what I deal with haha. Interested to try a different brand...maybe Hayes and see if that makes a difference.
I found that I get arm pump at the park simply from holding onto the bars rather than braking. I have Hayes brakes which have the lightest lever pull on the market and while they feel amazing on the trail they became a hindrance with arm pump because it is almost impossible to not accidentally pull the lever when arm pump sets in and you lose finesse over your finger pulls. At the bike park I definitely prefer Codes because the stiffness of the lever prevents accidental lever pulls. I thought running Hayes would help prevent arm pump but I didnt notice a difference, it just made the bike too hard to control once I got arm pump. I think for a park bike the Mavens should do well, but for a trail bike a light lever does feel really nice.
Interesting dilemma haha. Though I'd bet that more people would want to be able to ride more laps with the Hayes at the end of the day. The bike park shreds hands already so I'll take every bit of assistance I can get to survive!
@@DaleStone Riding Hayes with arm pump gets sketchy and is hard to manage, so it might make your day shorter than normal. I found I was accidentally dragging the brakes when going off jumps since you squeeze the bars to pull up, but with arm pump when you squeeze 3 fingers you also squeeze the index finger a little, not something I ever noticed until running Hayes and got bucked off every jump until realizing what was happening. The 2nd day of riding Hayes at the park I ended up crashing pretty bad from a simple rock drop, when I landed I squeezed the bar but also a bunch of brake on accident. Switched back to Codes and doing full days has been no problem.
@@ah4598 I think this is a great point, and why SRAM brakes generally have more 'modulation'. The pulling force is more consistent throughout the lever stroke and less on/off than lighter action brakes. Pros/cons to both, I think it takes more frequent riding to get used to the heavier lever feel but is more controllable. @dalestone sounds like you need to do some maven testing when the bike park opens
Great content, Dale. I love the detail. I wonder if you will receive comments from SRAM defending their design choices. They really don't need to because your review was so balanced and fair.
I think the most I can hope for is that next time someone in a Chicago boardroom asks "how can we further reduce rider fatigue", the engineering team is present rather than the marketing one.
It's surprising results I found the DB8's to have a very light lever action the most force needed being at the end of the stroke, I really enjoy these brakes with ceramic pads but I had a very hard time bleeding the rear after cutting the line, I ditched sram push-pull procedure for forced through the rear with a syringe into a funnel. Sounds nasty 😂
Luv the videos Dale. One recommendation for brake testing is to bed the brakes in on a road first. The trail bedding has too much variability and the weight shifting on the trail causes uneven bedding.
Good idea. I don't think I'd ever be able to glaze pads at my weight, but you're probably right that they could bed in unevenly, especially if they're not manufactured with adequate flatness/parallelism.
@@DaleStone I find that wetting pads with water and trying to bed in on a slight incline helps a lot. This works really well with stock pad compounds from both SRAM and Shimano. Other aftermarkets pads take a few more runs. But overall wetting the pads decreases the time to bed in quite significantly!
Yeah, these are for Pros and heavy e-bikes. Will probably be used on e-motos as those riders are always looking for heavier duty MTB compatible brakes.
Finally an honest review. Kudos to you and your integrity compared to the rest. Some people made a brief comment about initial lever throw but drown it out with all the other bs. Thankyou i hate all sram brakes, terrible quality and consitancy also rip off. Shimano and hope all the way.
Good, honest review Dale. I've tried many brakes now and landed on Magura as my fovorite for a while. I recently built up a new hardtail and on a recommendation put Formula Cura 2 brakes on it. After a few rides I am super impressed. They are only two piston calipers, but match the MT5 on raw power. I find they also deliver a lot of control. Formula also makes a 4 piston version, but the 2 pistons are enough power for me. I'd be interested in seeing some more reviews of the Formula brakes because I feel they are under rated. Again, great review and keep the awesome content coming!
It might just be your opinion, but I trust your opinion. My new DH bike came with DB8 and I didn't even give them a chance. Swapped to Saint right away.
Great review on the Maven. I have not seen anyone else highlight this important point. Please report on the Hope Tech 4 V4 brake if you have not already.
Finally a honest review! Thanks a lot! The test with the dead stroke is fine but a setup with different leaver forces as input and wheel torque as output would be ideal.
i ended up on cascade north forks with the cascade cams in sept and as a 235lb rider cant recommend enough. yeah expensive but theres a reason i drive a 20 year old van. people seem to love the hayes and hopetechs.
I would personally love to see a review on the TRP dhr evo brakes, I personally have 2 sets and they are definitely the best brakes I have every ridden.
Great video! Thanks! I have SRAM code on my turbo levo and really dislike the amount of force needed to keep me and my 205lb self in-check on the downhill. I often get too much fatigue and arm pump... I honestly was thinking about getting the new Maven... Definitely won't now! At some point will probably just switch to the shimano XTR. Some of my buddies run them and man they feel good and powerful with much less force needed....
I’m running the mavens. Out of the box, both the front and rear needed a bleed to get an optimal lever feel, but after that, the lever is much lighter than my previous Code RSCs.
A trick I used was hooking up the caliper syringe only and cycling the brake lever to depressurize the system and retract/cycle the pistons and then pressurizing with the syringe to extend the pistons to their optimal position. I was surprised how much air was in the uncut front brake when I bled it.
Be careful if you install them yourself, they have a manufacturing defect that means that the pistons have to be lubricated very well since the gasket is very tight and they do not move back as quickly as they should, apparently the defect disappears after massaging several times the brake pistons.
Ever thought about pairing the calipers with the lighter pull master cylinder/ levers? Seems that as long as the volume capacity of the feather weight levers are large enough to fully squeeze the beans out of the rotors… never know, that may net you the ultimate setup you absolutely love….
What's the lightest feeling brake lever that you've tried? 👇
Hayes Dominion A4, got them yesterday actually and so far they are by far better than any Shimano lever I have tried also loads more power.
Those might be the next test... 👀
@@DaleStone Totally worth it especially if you get the Limited Purple like I did.
Ridden RSCs, TRP DHR Evos, shimano XT, SLX, and deores and the lightest brakes I've ridden by far are the Hayes Dominion A4s. The have been fantastic for me and I've currently got my set on my ragley hardtail
Shimano saint. That being said I have a question that's burning a hole in me. Is each of the 4 caliper screws hollow for fluid transfer or just two? Or even maybe none and transfer ports?... Would be good to know
NONE of the big, professional review sites caught this obvious problem. And not only did you catch it, but you provided some relatively hard data to back it up. Nice work!
I believe that the red site mentioned that they felt the levers were "of a similar stiffness to codes, maybe a touch stiffer", or something to that effect. I guess it's harder to be objective when the product comes from one of your biggest advertisers...
I think the Lost Co mentioned in their video that there definitely is more of pressure threshold needed to start moving the lever.
@@daltonknapton Lost Co are good dudes
They want to keep getting sent items for reviews so they can make more money. Almost all reviews are shills.
Most big name reviews mention it, but don't go into detail...the most I've heard was that it's "more than the Code's" but that it shouldn't be an issue (I think that was PB)
Just installed these on my xl slash, absolutely love them! At 205lbs and a hack of a rider, these have saved my butt a few times already. I used to drag my brakes due to the lack of power and inability to stop me when I needed. With the huge power of the mavens I find that I can relax more and focus on being fast and loose, and have less hand fatigue as a result. I find every thing about them to be just right. I can understand where these might be to much for lighter smaller riders, but they were exactly what I needed.
That's awesome! I'm glad the Mavens exist for riders just like yourself. There really aren't many great options out there yet. 🙂
I’ve noticed the same thing. With the mavens I’ve had the least amount of hand fatigue out of all of the other brakes I’ve ran (codes, saints, mt7). Zero complaints as well.
I'll third that comment. 68kg rider who suffers from carpel tunel these brakes have helped my hand fatigue end .you really don't need to squeeze these as hard as any other brake I've tried.
Honestly the best brakes I've ever had. The power is incomparable. I won't ever go back to the code!
I really considered your review not to buy these brakes. I quite value your opinion but decided to get them anyway. I feel that these are the best brakes I’ve ever used it reduces arm pump and actually made me faster because it gave me confidence. I never got any fatigue in my hands as you described but I do regular the gym so I think that was a factor. I do want to mention that your review was very informative and quite detailed. I enjoyed your in-depth video’s and the direction you are going. Cheers
I'm glad they work for you! They're definitely not bad brakes, but a lighter lever feel would be a huge benefit with no drawbacks. It's a weird decision. 🙂
As a mechanic I have another point of criticism: the DB8 use a different bleed kit because they don't use the quick connect on the caliper, although they use the same fluid. This inconsistency is just unnecessary in my opinion and I just can't understand why SRAM didn't think of a simple maintanance related part like this.
Cost saving I would guess. The quick connect thing or how it's called must add manufacturing cost. It is great to use.
Dale and the MT520s is what the people need
How much the cost?
@@RiderBlitz1.0Got my 520s for less than $100 per wheel.
@@RiderBlitz1.0 a million bucks
if only they could fix the wandering bite point
My 520s have never wandered, neither have my partner's.
I just did the same test on my bike to roughly see how my Hope Tech 4 E4 brakes compare.
The lever started moving at 170g and the pads contacted the rotor at 220g.
This is definitely one of the reasons why I love these brakes, my hands haven't hurt from braking since I got them.
They also look way nicer than the Mavens!
170g is very good at that price, wow!
😂😂😂😂
Great review! It’s amazing how much difference rotor size makes. I just went from older 200mm SRAM rotors to 220mm HS2 on my codes and it’s night and day difference, they feel perfect.
In terms of power delivery, absolutely. Sadly that won't affect the dead stroke lever force here though.
Rode Code RSC's and XTR's for years back and forth, but LOVE the Shigura setup with MT7 calipers. Absolutely phenomenal brakes.
Ha, the engineer in you really came out in this one!
When I started riding back in 2020, I remember being most shocked by the hand pump and fatigue I experienced when first hitting legitimate MTB trails. Now of course, that was probably due to the death grip I had on my bars but, that aside, it was a highly unpleasant feeling and one which I’m glad I don’t experience often anymore (sustained descents notwithstanding). There’s no way I’d want to purchase and/or use brakes that made that feeling more likely.
Nice review, and probably your best of the three so far. Too bad the brakes didn’t live up to your hopes and expectations.
Btw, 225 comments after just three hours? Nice!
Thanks Nick, and I agree! I'll take any assistance I can get when it comes to reducing rider fatigue. Who wouldn't want to ride faster, further and for longer???
I'm sure BikeYoke or Problem Solvers will have something to make Shimano/SRAM compatibility work. I run M8120's with a BikeYoke adaptor for a SRAM X01 shifter.
Excellent review. Went through 3 other videos before yours and was irritated by all of them for total lack of objective real world experience. You delivered above and beyond. Thank you. Subscribed!
so cool to see how much passion you put in your vids
I'm glad it comes through! 😊
Brake modulation is the ability to precisely and accurately control the amount of clamp force on a rotor (or rim, which in some ways is just a big rotor, anyway) with a given amount of lever input.
Yep, indicated by the slope or derivative of the force graph I showed. 🙂
Great review. The lack of compatibility with Shimano parts is particularly valuable information and something I haven't seen any other outlet mention.
A more on off feeling brake might be the original Saints. The current Saints have been around for a long time now, but if you ever have a chance to try the originals I'm sure you'll be amazed that a Shimano brake ever felt like that.
I'd love for you to review Hayes Dominions and Formula Cura brakes next. Those in addition to some TRPs will round out your brake spreadsheet.
It’s funny cause I’ve used sram guides for a while and that “lever feel” is exactly why I upgraded to magura mt7s, no longer is the first thing pulling me off trail my hands.
Exactly, and same.
@@DaleStoneif they release some solid levers I don't doubt they'll be made a top selling brake of all time.
His review made me realise why I really dislike SRAM brakes (that and the crap bleed system and poor build quality). My bike came with Guides and I can't justify the spend on better alternatives at the mo annoyingly
I was looking to buying the maven and I normally take reviews like this with a grain of salt but I’ve seen many of your videos and I know what a good rider you are and I trust your judgment. I run Magura on both my ebike and regular bike I will stick with what works.Thanks and great video 👍
If you trust those who leave comments, it sounds like Hayes is worth some research!
@@DaleStone Hayes look great but I don’t like using dot rather use mineral oil.
@@BH-cy9tb same... 🥲
Dale! Excellent Job! Thanks for this. I just demoed a Transition Patrol w/ the Mavens and I was not all that impressed. I don't have huge hands and i'm very sensitive to arm pump. I am running TRPs on my current bike and I'm very happy with the initial lever pull.
I always appreciate your reviews, they are way more detailed and "grounded" than others. So please keep it going, it's so refreshing :)
Even if the Intend and SRAM brakes are not on my bucket list because of the outerspace prices, your videos are so well made and entertaining. Awesome, just as watch your riding only videos.
I upgraded the SRAM Code R's (which are garbage) that came on my Santa Cruz Heckler to these brakes. I was concerned having seen this video beforehand, too. But I did not notice any initial stiffness in the levers. What I did notice is way more bite, way more feel, and way less required input. Massive, massive improvement. Listen, if you're a 145lb waif with bitchfingers, you probably don't need these in the first place. But to the other enduro thickbois out there pushin' 2-3 bills, these are an excellent choice.
I hate you so much. I was looking forward to adding these brakes to my new DH build. After all those statistics, you have proven that I don't need these brakes, especially with over a hundred days in
Whistler Bike Park, i still get hand fatigue. I don't want to be in pain the whole time. I will stay with my Saints. I was almost convinced to going back to Sram with all the hype. You earned my subscription 👏👏👏👏
This is the best and most precise review I've seen on the Maven, amazing job brother, you just got a new sub
We'll have to link up for some rides if we find our gang out east this year! 🤘🏻
Gimme a shout if you wanna discover Quebec's area at some point mate, I know a bit of the area including SDM, E47, MSA and I'll gladly shown around @@DaleStone
This is a fantastic combination of personal feel opinion and actual testing. Nice work!
Thank you!
Hayes Dominion has some of the lightest lever feel on the market. My go to brake!🤩
They're probably what ill put on my arrival in june
Подтверждаю
I’ve tried and raced every brake (but the maven) and the Dominions are my favourite brake. Lots of power, light levers, shockingly low maintenance. I’m blown away by them and shocked more people don’t ride them
I would love to see the dominions in this test
Hope Tech 4 E4 is still the best trail/enduro/DH brake on the market. Lightest lever feel with incredibly predictable power. I’m hooked.
Great review!
Your video is 100% correct! exactly my experience. What I did to resolve this was I simply went back to my SLX levers, brake line connector is a direct fit so its super simple.. Now I have great Mavin calipers and great feeling light levers, no more arm pain! Been running this on my Levo all summer and love it, best of both worlds.
Is this real ,barb ,olive ,and brake line thread work with shimano,cheers
Maven calipers with SLX levers? That is an interesting setup. I'd be tempted to give that setup a go. Does it change the way the power comes on? Does it have that initial bite like shimano?
@@EOHRyan Sooooo much nicer lever feel with the slx levers. Also insanely easy as you can just plug in existing lines you already have. Used the Sram mineral oil and have never looked back. My first ride with the Mavens felt like is was at a bike park riding steep downhills all day, my right arm still has a bad case of tennis elbow from that first ride. Zero loss in braking power imo
@@DarrenSmith-x6h Yes 100%
Super helpful. Hand fatigue on a steep, technical downhill is one of the single biggest detriments to a good a ride and prolonged stress on hands has longer term impact.
Great review. I’m currently on the Hope Tech4 V4 and love those brakes. Perfect combination of lever power input / braking power. Quite a difference from the previous generation.
How did the V3s feel in comparison?
@@DaleStone less powerful but still very consistent. Had a pair that went thru 3 bikes with zero issues.
Good to know, I've been thinking of buying some v4s
The Tech 4 just improves everything on the Tech 3. The feeling is better, the modulation is better, and the power is stronger. I didn't think there would be much difference, I went from both Tech 3 E4, and Tech 3 V4s, on to Tech 4 E4s and Tech 4 V4s, I couldn't believe the new Tech 4 was so much better. @@DaleStone
What the heck.. The next review already? Nice man, this channel keeps getting better and better. Nice changes and wise choises Dale!
Been a busy week putting this one together haha, but if I have the motivation... 🚀📈🌚
@@DaleStone Impressed by the quality! Not often do I watch without skipping through the clip. Btw, Hope Tech4s do also only need a very low initial force to be required to move the lever. Maybe a test in the future! ;)
They're on the short list for sure, I just wish they weren't DOT! 🥲
@one Yes, that's right. Nothing a pair of gloves and some towels around the handlebar cannot handle :P I run 3 on my bikes and while the bleeding process is kind of annoying, they have been flawless since then. They strike into a perfect price point. I do not see how those mavens are competitive to Hope Tech4 V4s. They are identical in cost, but just the machining of the Hopes (just like the Trinity) and overall quality is on another level. In my opinion just the levers alone just look cheap :( Almost like the body is cast alloy of some sort. Which it probably is :D
I really appreciate your real review on the brakes, so many others only talk about the marketing stats. Also you destroyed those trails people have no idea👊🔥🔥
It's like people who review cameras, you can't trust them unless they show the quality of the photos that they take!
This is why I always buy Hope E4 brakes: DOT Fluid, single piece calliper, easy to bleed levers and mounting for all types of shifters, plus they look amazing
I would argue you on DOT being a plus, but otherwise they seem to have quite a positive reputation in this comment section!
Sram's lever feel has always been so nasty. It's so strange to me that they hang their hat on that. I have a theory that people would like Shimano Brakes better if they sized down rotor sizes if they complain about them being to grabby. Dominions have the best lever feel that I've ever experienced.
I agree with that theory, but good luck convincing the shuttle-bros to downsize their rotors. 😂
Shuttle bro here, I still have to consciously manage my brake heat with 220s, the mavens look like a step in the right direction, but they should have thicker rotors and a much wider braking surface and pads too. Current brakes can't handle 800m of unrelenting steepness. I've turned 200s blue.
@@neilrasmussen2063 that's pretty cool actually, haha. Never seen a fully blue rotor before!
That title had me rubbing my hands together and heating up the popcorn! Edit: It's completely warranted IMO. You can't get more objective than that test. However, I would like to see more of them tested to see if it's a one off (very improbable). Great review mate. I appreciate your thoughts on these.
They could definitely be a lemon, or from a defective batch. Will see what SRAM has to say, but for now they must go back!
Well, not totally objective. He typically rides Shimano and “SRAM is trying to be the Apple of the bike industry.”
I've disclosed my biases and they did not affect the scoring. Does that mean that someone who rides SRAM brakes on their personal bike is incapable of reviewing other brands objectively? 🤔
Im one of the strange individuals that enjoys code rsc's and I have no desire to swap to these things at any point in the near future
strong boi 💪
Nice to see you in front of the camera! You seem to be a natural presenter/reviewer! This was one of the best and honest mtb gear reviews i have seen. Please post more of this in the future.
This is the most direct, straight to the point review I have ever seen.
I'm glad you think that despite the 30 minute length. 😁
minus the huge shimano fanboyness
@@Ignitionmtb [citation required], I ride Intend. 😉
@@Ignitionmtb it’s a good product 🤷♂️
Love the honest review and the well thought and reproducible experiment on the brakes. If there is one thing I hate the most in my life is superficiality and marketing gimmick is among the greatest contributors of it.
I’ve watched a few of your videos but this one earned my subscription! Really well done and I appreciated your objectivity. I’m not a SRAM guy but I’m not a hater either. I’m glad to see what my initial thoughts on this brake were probably right. As I get older I’m learning not to buy into the hype and really focus on what’s going to improve my riding experience based on what I’m actually doing. I plan on upgrading my brakes. as much as I’d love a super high end bling brake setup simply swapping my front SLX 2-pot for a 4-pot caliper for $100 or less will be more then enough for my trail riding.
Also shout out IMBY Bikes. Those guys built my wheelset back in Sept and they delivered an absolute masterpiece!
I'm definitely also not a SRAM guy, but I'm a customer rooting for more competition (and therefore choice) within the industry. 🙂
Exactly, I’m pretty light so most high end 4pieton brakes are enough for me so the only thing I look for is a light lever feel
I was considering getting a set of the silver series Mavens to replace my Code R brakes, I’m glad I decided to hold off. I definitely want a lighter lever feel on initial pull. Hayes is at the top of my list currently.
Can't go wrong with Hayes. Amazing value for the best brake ever made.
Probably the best review on them I´ve seen. I wonder if the fatigue is significant for someon bigger. As a 130 kg heavy guy I am looking for a better brakes that will last me through rough descents. Right now I´m on sram guide R2 which are not bad, fatigue in finger doesn´t bother me, but the power does. I don´t know if I even need this much power, but it´s always to have more then you need then less when it comes to stopping.
If I weighted less i wouldn´t even think about these, because seriously you will just lock your wheels without having force down on ground to stop you, or just not use their potencial.
Sounds like you're probably strong enough to handle these haha. I do enjoy the on-off power at my weight though! 🙂
I am also that heavy and look forward to trying the Mavens. Both Shimano and Codes do not have enough stopping power for my riding
I am 240 and own the Mavens. Best brake I’ve ever used in all aspects. No hand fatigue on long descents. I’m highly recommend them for big guys and can see why they don’t suit smaller fella’s.
Douglas DeMuro meets Engineering Explained, but bicycles. Thanks for taking the time to make these videos! Now please review , thx.
bUt HaVe YoU tRiEd ThE rIpMo??
Thank you for this honest and well-explained review. This was not what I expected at all!!
Shimano brakes just feel so damn good.
Good, honest review, thanks. I've watched other reviews and they mentioned the hard lever pull but very quickly. No offense to any of them but most make money off Sram and don't want to upset their sales and advertising dollars.
Nice work! Since now I found only articles using probably print release, because wording was so similar, this is the first real test :) Still waiting for MT7s video :)
Soon-ish™
@@DaleStone :D
I really liked how you used scientific principles like 'repeatability' of the experiment you did. That's why science is science - repeatability and observation. I'm curious if you did this exercise more than one time to see what would happen if you kept repeating the experiment. That said, I can't believe my 10 year old Saint brakes are still my favorite brake EVER.
In order to get this review out within a week of the Maven's launch I had to forgo repeating the entire experiment. Onto the next shiny thing! 😆🙈
Love the Apple comparison that's exactly the way their going! Everything the same but serial serialed next
You should try a pair of Formula Cura's. They are not side specific either, they offer every single part as spares, and guarantee spare part availability for at least ten years after a product is discontinued.
Also, they perform excellent.
Ten years is amazing, that would sway me as a customer!
I’ve put a few rides on my new Mavens and I could not be happier with them. The pull force seems quite easy to me and love the feel. The lever pull may not be to your liking, but to the lengths you went to emphasize your point seems excessive.
My main issue isn't so much the product, but rather the misleading marketing. Without that this video would've been half the length for sure!
@@DaleStone Wait, what? Did you just say that? Your channel reviews products, and you just stated that your 30 minute video “isn’t so much about the product, but rather the misleading marketing “. Then why make the video? I am interested in honest product reviews, not bias stemming from ill received marketing campaigns.
A quick look at my channel would show you that product reviews are a small subset of what I do.
And absolutely. A product should be reviewed against:
a) it's competition, and
b) the claims of the manufacturer.
Nothing about the scoring section was influenced by the latter. But it's a very important point that warrants addressing. And in the end, it's all about the product. Hard to be more honest than that really!
I love it when someone calls out manufacturers on their bold claims. The wording used in some product launches is often nothing short of ridiculous. I would suggest that what Sram aren't telling you is that lever force they're referring to was measured as just a bare lever lever that wasn't connected to a fully bled system, and that all the excess friction you've mentioned is due to the calliper pistons.
Saints > all
Honestly I'm glad that they moved to mineral oil. I don't want to have to deal with a corrosive fluid any time I bleed my brakes. My new bike is coming with Maven Bronze so I'll test them out for myself soon. If they are good enough, I will keep them, but if they suck I'll put Maguras on there. Been using MT7 Pro for about 5 years and loved every moment. Even after 5 years they are still going strong and they have been moved between two bikes as well.
AAAA brake set LOL.
It seems to me that in general North American riders only think on SRAM or Shimano, but never on Magura's... why?
I find the MT7pro are the best brakes ever, and I'm heavy.
After having all sort of problems with teh above mentioned brands, I switched to Maguras 203/203 4 pots F/R and never had anymore issues 😎
Magura used to have a presence here, but due to reasons I'm too young to understand, they kind of disappeared and never really came back with the same force. I've spent some time on (and will review!) the MT7s. Generally quite good, but I always found they ramped up too slowly. Didn't get the chance to change out the lever though...
@@DaleStone that's the thing! The HC3 levers (which I have) have an adjustable pivot to change the leverage. So you can make them feel very on/off or very progressive. i have them adjusted around the 3/4 mark, towards the on/off... perfect! 😎
MT7 pro are my go to now. I am heavy and on an ebike and they are awesome.
Magura calipers with Shimano levers have been the best combo for me.
Used Sram Db5's years ago and liked them, used shimano brakes for years after and then Magura entered the room. Magura for life now.
Great review! After riding the Mavens on two different bikes I reviewed, I honestly loved them however the feel of my Maguras as far as ease of pulling in the lever up to the point the pads start contacting the rotor. If I could blend the power of the Mavens with the ease of initial lever stroke of my Maguras I would think they have reached almost perfection. I am a large dude at 260 lbs and stopping power is important for me.
I totally agree with dale on the mt520. I bought a pair several years ago before dale probably even started his TH-cam channel because I was looking for a burly 4 pot brake at a great price. But since then I also have a lot of experience with sram code and guide and really don’t have any complaints besides the increased service interval. For me the increased force at the lever is barely noticeable, but then again i also go to the gym and do forearm exercises. I think if you’re relatively jacked, have deep pockets, and ride hard the maven is a good choice. However, I think you’re onto something with the suggestion that sram make the lever feel of this brake lighter. It might not be the easiest thing though, the brake being so stiff might be a reason for the great reliability. I’ve noticed that with lighter actuation brakes I have more issues with sticky pistons and inconsistent piston travel.
I am certain that there is more than meets the eye than SRAM deciding they like a heavy lever force. Also I'd like to think I'm pretty strong, but maybe that's just strength to weight and not raw strength... 😂
a very insightful and unbiased review, unlike reviews you may find on the major mtb news platforms. love it!
Dale what a great review. Appealed to the engineer in me! Given your love for the 520, would you consider a similar review of the DB8 as a brake for the people? With centreline/HS2/org/metalic pads from SRAM. I think they get a LOT of bad PERCEIVED press to the point of people avoiding buying bikes with them or immediately swapping them out without even trying them. Loads of modulation and power for the majority of riders.
I've yet to try a pair out on the trail, but the three or so sets that I've squeezed in the shop suffer from the same overly-stiff lever feel issues that I've dove into here. I think it would be a good idea to review them in the future though as a point of reference/comparison! 🙂
@@DaleStone Interesting. Mine do not feel particularly bad but I am totally away to replicate your test! Watch this space..... 🙂
Really well done. Your deep dive on the stiff lever vs fatigue was excellent.
As a certified big boy (currently 280lbs) I am always interested in more power but given my decidedly amateur skill level, sounds like these might not be the ones for me.
If you can handle the stiff levers they might even be a good choice for you, as it's unlikely you'll be able to fade or overheat them!
I beg to differ fellow Clydesdale. I’m 240 and have been using the Ultimate Experts for 3 rides now and I think they are excellent. I did a big ride in Cumberland the first day on them and found them very responses. I barely had to pull the lever to get the bite I desired. The ‘stiff’ lever feel didn’t translate to hand fatigue. I found once past the initial stiff pull the levers felt better than codes. Personally, Dale is a light weight. These brakes weren’t designed for his body type and hand strength if he feels they fatigue him that quickly. I 100% disagree with his entire review and recommend these for heavier riders with heavier bikes.
The fatigue is for sure real on these. I love my mavens thou. One thing that helped me tremendously was moving the lever closer to the bar , considerably closer than how I normally set up brakes.
That's a good tip for sure, and what I ended up landing on haha.
@@DaleStone I wanted to say “great minds think alike” but it was a buddy that suggested it just this last week :) … I noticed the relief immediately.
Getting some serious Doug Demuro vibes when doing to points breakdown. Totally here for it!
Ever since he abandoned the long-form score explanations I figured there was room to expand it into an entirely different niche! 🤞🏻
@@DaleStone Absolutely love it. Sad when he stopped doing them. Also gonna plug a review for the Hayes DA4. Huge fan, sad it isn't more popular.
Would love to see you review Shimgura brakes. Keep up the awesome work.
I saw another reviewer saying they had a stiff initial pull bias, I am sure someone will offer a rebuild kit for the lever to provide lighter pull. Another great review, thanks again.
Whoever does that first will have a very solid product, let's see!
Maybe the best, honest review of this brake out there. I'm pretty sure the sram-guys have seen it as well. I wonder what THEY make of it.
Initially they wanted to chat, but have since seemed uninterested to do so over email.
@@DaleStone why am i not surprised? :D btw: microshift advent-x would be a good addition in your "cheap but awesome" series. I like the drivetrain a lot.
I love my Hayes Dominion light lever feel and best lever I have felt personally,and lots of power and modulation
Loving the use of "Freedoms" to describe U.S currency.
Honest review to soo refreshing to see.
Subscribed🤟
Pardon my ignorance but what is he talking about?
It's in the vid haha
You remind me of styropyro in your movements, mannerisms, and testing. It's awesome!
I just bought a Nomad with Code RSC and i feel what you said. Previously Ihad XTM8120 and the difference is huge... not the power but that lever force to moove them!
New favourite TH-camr this review was 10/10!
That hand shake at the end was way funnier than it should have been... awesome video dale! looking forward to your hayes dominion a4 review
With the integral of lever force over trail time you won my sub!
I still have nightmares from my uni math courses...
I am one of the few who loves sram brakes, especially the codes. These brakes sound like exactly what i don't like about other brakes
Sounds like you're living the dream and saving money while doing it, haha. #goals
Time for some Shimram brakes! Or Maguram brakes. Can't wait to find out which mix is the best!
The... SHAM. 🧠
Before I watch, I don’t mind the DB eights at their price point but I can only imagine how good these are considering most of other sram break options. XT for pots are the way I go and I’ve never let me down.
Great review, all I see when I look at these brakes "Tell me you're targeting weekend warrior e-bikers, without telling me youre targeting weekend warrior e-bikers". IMO it explains the entire reason for these brakes. Mineral oil? So that weekend warriors dont touch them. Bold styling? Look at me. Dont get me wrong, I love seeing new products! But I'll skip this one. Bigger brakes stop you quicker, is possibly the biggest marketing line people can fall for
Funny enough, the local group that I know likes these brakes are pretty anti-ebike and pro-shuttle, haha.
Thanks Dale. Been enjoying the reviews so far 👍
A very comprehensive video Dale. I've never ridden brakes other than SRAM Codes (they have just been the stock brakes on bikes I've had), but have always found myself with hand fatigue. I knew it was because I was just on the brakes more than I should, but not being the most skilled it's what I deal with haha. Interested to try a different brand...maybe Hayes and see if that makes a difference.
I'm not going to claim that'll solve all of your fatigue, but it is a very positive step in the right direction! 🙂
I found that I get arm pump at the park simply from holding onto the bars rather than braking. I have Hayes brakes which have the lightest lever pull on the market and while they feel amazing on the trail they became a hindrance with arm pump because it is almost impossible to not accidentally pull the lever when arm pump sets in and you lose finesse over your finger pulls. At the bike park I definitely prefer Codes because the stiffness of the lever prevents accidental lever pulls. I thought running Hayes would help prevent arm pump but I didnt notice a difference, it just made the bike too hard to control once I got arm pump. I think for a park bike the Mavens should do well, but for a trail bike a light lever does feel really nice.
Interesting dilemma haha. Though I'd bet that more people would want to be able to ride more laps with the Hayes at the end of the day. The bike park shreds hands already so I'll take every bit of assistance I can get to survive!
@@DaleStone Riding Hayes with arm pump gets sketchy and is hard to manage, so it might make your day shorter than normal. I found I was accidentally dragging the brakes when going off jumps since you squeeze the bars to pull up, but with arm pump when you squeeze 3 fingers you also squeeze the index finger a little, not something I ever noticed until running Hayes and got bucked off every jump until realizing what was happening. The 2nd day of riding Hayes at the park I ended up crashing pretty bad from a simple rock drop, when I landed I squeezed the bar but also a bunch of brake on accident. Switched back to Codes and doing full days has been no problem.
@@ah4598 I think this is a great point, and why SRAM brakes generally have more 'modulation'. The pulling force is more consistent throughout the lever stroke and less on/off than lighter action brakes. Pros/cons to both, I think it takes more frequent riding to get used to the heavier lever feel but is more controllable.
@dalestone sounds like you need to do some maven testing when the bike park opens
I don't think my body is ready for that abuse. 🙈
Great review Dale. I had a set of these in my hands today. The calipers are epically big. and... it's 4.5126 N of force for the Shimanos 🙂
Haha, this is the brake that the riders of St Helena surely demand! 😂
And yes... a slight misnomer on that one. First to call me out.
@@DaleStone if you weren’t an engineer I would have not said anything.
Great content, Dale. I love the detail. I wonder if you will receive comments from SRAM defending their design choices. They really don't need to because your review was so balanced and fair.
I think the most I can hope for is that next time someone in a Chicago boardroom asks "how can we further reduce rider fatigue", the engineering team is present rather than the marketing one.
Great review! Much better and honest than on mainstream media!!! Greetings from UK?
It's surprising results I found the DB8's to have a very light lever action the most force needed being at the end of the stroke, I really enjoy these brakes with ceramic pads but I had a very hard time bleeding the rear after cutting the line, I ditched sram push-pull procedure for forced through the rear with a syringe into a funnel. Sounds nasty 😂
Luv the videos Dale. One recommendation for brake testing is to bed the brakes in on a road first. The trail bedding has too much variability and the weight shifting on the trail causes uneven bedding.
Good idea. I don't think I'd ever be able to glaze pads at my weight, but you're probably right that they could bed in unevenly, especially if they're not manufactured with adequate flatness/parallelism.
@@DaleStone I find that wetting pads with water and trying to bed in on a slight incline helps a lot. This works really well with stock pad compounds from both SRAM and Shimano. Other aftermarkets pads take a few more runs. But overall wetting the pads decreases the time to bed in quite significantly!
@@viperrules24 I'd love to understand the science behind why this is the case.
@@DaleStone trust me bro
Listening to unassuring "aaahsthetic" rigth at the point of entering a skinny gave me full immersion experience!
Yeah, these are for Pros and heavy e-bikes. Will probably be used on e-motos as those riders are always looking for heavier duty MTB compatible brakes.
Finally an honest review. Kudos to you and your integrity compared to the rest. Some people made a brief comment about initial lever throw but drown it out with all the other bs. Thankyou i hate all sram brakes, terrible quality and consitancy also rip off. Shimano and hope all the way.
Good, honest review Dale. I've tried many brakes now and landed on Magura as my fovorite for a while. I recently built up a new hardtail and on a recommendation put Formula Cura 2 brakes on it. After a few rides I am super impressed. They are only two piston calipers, but match the MT5 on raw power. I find they also deliver a lot of control. Formula also makes a 4 piston version, but the 2 pistons are enough power for me. I'd be interested in seeing some more reviews of the Formula brakes because I feel they are under rated. Again, great review and keep the awesome content coming!
It might just be your opinion, but I trust your opinion. My new DH bike came with DB8 and I didn't even give them a chance. Swapped to Saint right away.
I would've likely done the same haha. Maximize resale!
This is one of the best reviews of a product I've seen in ages.
Great review on the Maven. I have not seen anyone else highlight this important point. Please report on the Hope Tech 4 V4 brake if you have not already.
They're on the list, soon!
Finally a honest review! Thanks a lot! The test with the dead stroke is fine but a setup with different leaver forces as input and wheel torque as output would be ideal.
I fully agree, and pledge to get the equipment to do so once I'm rich. 🙈
i ended up on cascade north forks with the cascade cams in sept and as a 235lb rider cant recommend enough. yeah expensive but theres a reason i drive a 20 year old van. people seem to love the hayes and hopetechs.
I would personally love to see a review on the TRP dhr evo brakes, I personally have 2 sets and they are definitely the best brakes I have every ridden.
One day it'll happen!
Great video! Thanks! I have SRAM code on my turbo levo and really dislike the amount of force needed to keep me and my 205lb self in-check on the downhill. I often get too much fatigue and arm pump... I honestly was thinking about getting the new Maven... Definitely won't now! At some point will probably just switch to the shimano XTR. Some of my buddies run them and man they feel good and powerful with much less force needed....
From the sounds of this comment section it seems that Hayes and Hope are worth a bit of research!
I’m running the mavens. Out of the box, both the front and rear needed a bleed to get an optimal lever feel, but after that, the lever is much lighter than my previous Code RSCs.
Interesting for sure. I didn't find that the bleed or massage helped significantly. But glad it did for you!
A trick I used was hooking up the caliper syringe only and cycling the brake lever to depressurize the system and retract/cycle the pistons and then pressurizing with the syringe to extend the pistons to their optimal position. I was surprised how much air was in the uncut front brake when I bled it.
Be careful if you install them yourself, they have a manufacturing defect that means that the pistons have to be lubricated very well since the gasket is very tight and they do not move back as quickly as they should, apparently the defect disappears after massaging several times the brake pistons.
I did, and it didn't. 🙂
I did, and it didn't. 🙂
Ever thought about pairing the calipers with the lighter pull master cylinder/ levers? Seems that as long as the volume capacity of the feather weight levers are large enough to fully squeeze the beans out of the rotors… never know, that may net you the ultimate setup you absolutely love….
Definitely something I'd be keen to try. I'll let the internet experiment with what works first, though. 😅
My son's Canyon came with the DB8 brakes and they work absolutely fine. They feel better than my G2s. Maybe I'm just done with SRAM brakes.