StarTrek Dominion War : The Dominion Cold War
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ต.ค. 2017
- We are finally moving towards the end of our series and here is the Dominion from the Dominion War. While the War itself is most known, people forget that there was a ton of build up to the show itself. So let's break down the Cold War.. and then go from there.
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Hey Everyone, This weeks Line up:
Monday: StarTrek Dominion War: The Dominion Cold War
Tuesday: Rise of the First Order: The Resistance (Star Wars)
Wednesday: Before the Federation: Romulans
Thursday: Time War: The Master (Doctor Who)
Friday: Battle of Khitomer
Fun Drinking Game.. Take a shot every time I say 'Quadrant'!
Lore Reloaded which enemy is your favourite then? You mention in the video that it's not the Dominion, so who is it?
I don't know if I have an organization that is my favorite..if I am honest. I absolutely love Gul dukat as a villain.. Before he went insane.. I think he was.. probably the best Villain in fiction for me (To date, atleast)
Would have to agree. Dukat was the best villain because he had such a long time to develop as a character on DS9. And he never saw himself as the villain, he was the hero of his own story that ended in tragedy. Sort of like Hercules.
Thought you were doing Dominion Federation Alliance vs the Borg??
Amen, DS9 is my favourite series too!!!
+johnnyscifi #DS9FOLIFE
I wish Star Trek would have moved forwards beyond Nemesis, rather than backwards into prequels, to include galaxy-wide conflicts between the major quadrants - With the Federation/Klingon/Romulan/etc. In the Alpha/Beta quadrants, the Dominion in the Gamma quadrant and the Borg in the Delta quadrant and all the stories and conflicts they could have told.
177SCmaro I agree, but Viacom and CBS are acting stupid.
Section 31 was missed, I believe, because they were not widely known. Everybody in Cardassia and Romulan empires knew about Obsidian Order and the Tal Shiar. Section 31 is only known by a very small handful of people in the Federation. The only reason Bashir knew about them is because Slone acted semi-openly with Bashir. I think Slone acted that way because he was trying to bring Bashir into the organization quickly. Had Slone been more patient Bashir could have been completely in the dark and remained useful to Section 31.
I also don't think Slone was the head of all of Section 31. Their are many cells of Section 31 and Stone was the Dominion expert. Possibly the "face" of the organization and not the big boss.
It would be interesting if Section 31 helped the Dominion get the Tal Shiar and Obsidian order in their cross hairs.. with out the dominion even knowing.
Agreed both the Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order fulfilled the role of secret police along the lines of the Gestapo or Stasi whereas Section 31 is more like an illuminati/black ops special intelligence unit.
Fear was a primary motivator for the Cardassian/Romulan organisations and therefore people needed to know just enough about their capabilities, for Section 31 total secrecy was their main tool as their existence runs counter to the entire ethos of the Federation.
I personally Love the take on Section 31 given by David Mack in "Control", and that's the understanding of 31 that I prefer to run with. Because of that I actually really like Lore's idea that 31 helped an unknowing Dominion destroy the Tal Shiar and Obsidian order.
Section 31 in ds9 is not a government agency, they are a secret society like Illuminati, therefore they don't exist.
The best intelligence agency is the one that is completely invisible. Information gets stolen without the owners ever finding out they have been infiltrated. VIPs mysteriously die by unknown causes either seeming natural or accidental and nobody suspects a thing. The founders were infected with bio weapons and never saw it coming until they were falling over dead. That is the way it is done.
Yes Section 31 is a bit like the Illuminati an organization so mysterious it officially don't exist. But through conspiracy they manipulate events from behind the scenes.
One of the little know things, was that it was the writers plans that the Dominion would have known about the federation since the late 22nd century and planed to deal with them by the 26th century but the wormhole through that out of the water and force the dominion to react before they were ready
I have to wonder...what if the Dominion invaded the GAMMA QUADRANT. It seems as if the Gamma Quadrant did not have any major powers and were more tribal. Easy pickens.
The Obsiedion Order and Tal'shiar are both known where as Section 31 got so good at covering it's tracks that not many Starfleet officers knew about it unless Section 31 wanted you to know about them you didn't. The Federation know of both the Cardassian and Romulan organizations. But a group like Section 31 where most Starfleet officers don't even know of its existence had an edge in the cold war.
the original plan was for the dominion to be a opposite version of the federation, im kinda sad we never got to see that idea take form
They somewhat did that, I could see it.. I do wish they had expanded it though, yea ..
The Interstellar Concordium from the video games was that.
About the situation in the Alpha Quadrant being unique, Picard once said we've only explored only 11% of the galaxy. Although it is never stated, much of that may be in the Beta quadrant. That means there could always be a huge empire in unexplored space in either quadrant yet to be discovered. There are federation-sized factions (Kazon, Krenim, ect.) in the Delta Quadrant for hat seem to know nothing about the Borg.
Per the map, the Alpha Quadrant is pretty discovered.. Perhaps they claim space they've never been to.
Lore Reloaded Is there a fully canon galaxy/quadrant map?
There is a semi-canon which is generally used in most series called 'Star Charts' - it's the closest we have.
I believe at least part of the reason Section 31 was overlooked was it didn't publicly announce itself like the Tal Shiar and the Obsidian Order. Everyone interested quadrant knew of the existence of the 2 while few people outside Section 31 knew that it existed.
Yeah, the Dominion not realising S31 existed was their biggest blunder.
But pretty much the only people who knew it existed were it's members (At least at the time)
Which probably saved it..
Best thing about this storyline was Weyoun he was just brilliantly slimey.
If you can believe it, Weyoun wasn't meant to be a recurring character..he did so well that they kept him on.
Lore Reloaded Too right he was brilliant not a big fan of DS9 I watched it though I like all Star Trek but the Weyoun character kept me interested.
I don't think the voorta were created, but uplifted. Given enhancements while adding loyalty to the founders.
I kinda wish you'd do a video that goes into a detail about how the Dominion is a perfect foil of the Federation because I think it's a point a lot of people miss. And while I think the Weyouns are probably exaggerating about the Dominion's "batting average" I don't think it's by much. I believe what we see during the Cold War is the Founders SOP. Open war is not their go to. The Founders go in and create disunity, mistrust, and get their enemies to weaken themselves until they reach the point where they show up with a Jem'hadar battleship and their enemies just roll over without a fight.
This is why I got so frustrated with you for saying the Federation focuses too much on diplomacy. The Dominion, and the Founders, in particular, have thousands of years of experience getting enemy organizations to fall apart without needing to fire a shot. But they ran into a brick wall in the alpha quadrant because the Federation is even better at getting people to trust each other and get along. It was Federation diplomacy that united the Alpha Quadrant into a force big enough to take on the Dominion. The Dominion united the Gamma Quadrant through force and fear. The Federation united the Alpha Quadrant through volunteerism and trust.
Diplomacy is the Federation's ultimate weapon.
I've considered it..believe it or not - they don't expand a ton on the Dominion in the Gamma Quadrant..so a lot of it would be craft theory.
The Dominion: most intriguingly terrifying empires in all of science fiction--period! One rung below the Empire in Star Wars, honestly.
I do like the Dominion.. I was surprised at how little background about their Gamma Quadrant counter parts their were.
Still think they were a lot more terrifying then the empire. and a lot more efficient
Empire were bad that was it. the Dominion played so many different roles, peace keepers,diplomats,enablers and of coarse the bad guys in the long run when it took the entire Alpha quadrant to back them into a corner and show there true form
The Dominion sure know war unlike the galactic Empire from Star Wars, Even the Dalek Empire was playing 2 empires off Each other in the classic series.
Geo-Galactic politics is always an interesting topic.
Especially when the villain plays it well.
The Dominion are my favourite Heros in Star Trek - I literally love everything about them - Ok that might be a tad absurd to say... I look at them as I look at the Roman Empire, a civilising evil that brough relative order and civilsation to an absurd amount of territory, the rule of law, realative centuries (Or millenia in this case) of peace, unending progress and avancment all at the cost of individual rights being resitrvcted... But not to harshly. I mean we see the Dominion commit some truly horrivble atrocities to assert their rule, but all nations (Even the Federation), have done some truly messed up things to survive. When we look at those that resists againts the Dominion? Those who arent loyal? Dont give in? They are punished with ruthless efficiecny, but those that 'tow the party line', those that go along with it, they are treated... well their live are chaned very little. Look at all the Gamma Quadrant races we meet. We know pratically all of them are either direct memembers or essentailly puppets to the overwhelming power of the Dominion, and yet all those that go along with it? They still have their culture, relative prosperirty, and live in realtive peace - such as the Dosi, Wadi and the hunter dudes I cant remember the name of just to say a few. Im known for looking at things and seeing them differently from how others see it... I honestly cant help it, and I think we look at the 'bad guys' in Star Trek, and we see them as monsters compared to the 'good guys' because... well we are told their the bad guys and thus we see their flaws and highlight them... Honestly the Dominion and the Federation in my opinion are not all that different. The Dominion brings, order, law, porgress, civilsation adn realtive propseirty to the races and territory that they control and that dont rebel, with some minor retractions to human rights for those that are loyal... The Federation does exactly the same. They bring order, law, progress and relative propserirty to the terriotry under their control? The cost interms of huamn rights? Individuality, Just look at your own arguments about the essential suppresion of freedom of thought and speech in the Federation without being comepltly ostracised. IF you try and leave,, if you dont go along with it and arent loyal? Well ask the Maquis. I would never say the Dominon is perfect or even a morally great force, but neither is the Federation, and whiles the Domion is worst thatn the Federation, I really dont think the gap between them is that big or even noticeable. If i had the choice of living in the Federation or the Dominion? I wojld choose the Dominion (As long as im noot in a story written by people wbiased and thus the Fedearion always wins) because atmleast the Dominion is secure compared to lviing in the Federation, I mean the Alpha / BEta quadrants are hardly safe.
HybridJack Jonesy I like your response but let’s really think about it. would you want to be be apart of a empire that could just obliterate you from orbit or slowly kill you over generations? with no response except. “I serve the Founders
Order has its limits
Jason Newsham Maybe. Maybe not. I don't know... The fact they could kill you for no reaaon, beyond their service of the Founders, doesn't mean they would... I don't see the Dominion slaughtering people simply for the sake of it... It's inefficient and hardly allows them to flourish as an empire.... On the other hand of you lived in the Federation you would have to sit their and watch billions die due to a variety of reasons and have the only explanation for your great moral crime being reasoned under "#Prime Directive is God". Jason Newsham Maybe. Maybe not. I don't know... The fact they could kill you for no reaaon, beyond their service of the Founders, doesn't mean they would... I don't see the Dominion slaughtering people simply for the sake of it... It's inefficient and hardly allows them to flourish as an empire.... On the other hand of you lived in the Federation you would have to sit their and watch billions die due to a variety of reasons and have the only explanation for your great moral crime being reasoned under "#Prime Directive is God". At least if your part of the Dominion, and by that I mean part of the actual Imperial machinery, or even just an average citizen, you know your working towards a common goal that is loosely good... At least good compared to most of the Star Trek civilisations which all have some pretty reprehensible aspects. The crimes your helping supporting? Their going towards a decent aim. On the other hand in the Federation great moral crimes that are often explained away and really badly justified - I'm surprised the Federation does not have made suicides from the crews that sit their and listen to their captain's order them to allow billions to die in a natural calamity simply for the sake of the religious doctrine that is the Prime Directive to many Starfleet Captains
Good summary and analysis.
One of the writers on DS9 said people should consider the Dominion only ONE OF MANY of the great powers of the Gamma quadrant.
About section 31, while they might have been missed or overlooked, I think it's more likely they captured and experimented on a changling that was sent to destroy them.
I don't think it's unreasonable to miss section 31.
We knew about tal shiar and obsidian order, in the same vein we know about the CIA.
We don't know everything they do, but we know they're there.
Section 31, besides them just creating it ( they being the writers) in story no one knew the federation had such an organization , even Star fleet personnel didn't know.
Sure, still a fatal mistake alas.
I'm pretty sure they knew, but pretend all the way to their death, that they didn't know.
Man section 31 was so secretive that they didn't even know about themselves. lol
I'm going to take a slight jab at your characterization of the power layout of the quadrants. I completely agree that the Federation has an unusual influence on it's neighbors and the species that those neighbors consist of, but I don't think that the Federation held anything much beyond simply a very powerful and central influence. Essentially what I'm saying is that I don't think that without the Federation there would have been a Romulan or Klingon takeover. For an example of this, even when the future members of the Federation were either fighting or just getting their foot in the door of the galactic community (think Star Trek Enterprise era), the surrounding areas still haddn't been controlled by a massive empire for at least 20,000 years and possibly far longer depending on how much you like a certain book series. This suggests that the Federation wasn't so much stopping this from occurring but rather that they simply had the ability to expand and gain power as there was no-one else really capable of stopping them at the time, and because they tended to peacefully gain new members rather than conquer, you see a lot more diversity at face value in the Federation, even though I don't think that the Federation actually had any higher a density of sentient species than any other part of the galaxy. This has been a bit rough to write cause I'm tired, but your turn Lore. (See what I did there? Lore? like Data's brother? I'm sorry....)
In DS9 "Past Tense", Sisko and Bashir change the timeline by accident in which the Federation never came to exist. The Defiant in the 24th century at Earth is protected against these changes and O'Brien detects Romulan activity at Alpha Centauri, the closest solar system from Earth.
pretty much agree with this one! Hate how the Odyssey is destroyed so easily but the Rotaran on escort duty quite easily despatches 3 dominion warships!
hey I was wondering if when you have free time that you could do a what if, what if The Terran empire (at its peak) vs the Dominion at the same time period.
funny note. I play World of Warships and their halloween special is going on and it was playing during your vid....and it fit
+Revkor totes planned.. World of warships is..a..sponsor of ours..yes..that's the ticket..
DS9 was my favorite series as well.
Pretty sure a Galaxy class starship had a crew compliment of about a 1,000.
The normal complement of a standard galaxy class ship is 1,000 to 6,000. The ship could hold up to 15k people. With no resource telling me how many people were aboard the ship i stated 'up to 15k'...the max..if I was a betting man..id say probably around 6k lost their lives..
but you forget the time frame and the fact her capatian evaced all non essential personal. Odyessey was running with a battle crew not full crew. so the actual number is less then 1000 considering E_D and Yammato were stated with a 1k crew so while she can easily hold more they by standard ran with only 1K at this time and most of them on DS9 when she went in.
Enterprise had about 1,024 (inc families in season 6) but by early-late season 5 DS9 Garak listed a group of federation ships lost the Maryland, Proxima and Sarajevo and those killed on new bajor
+Revkor there's no way to know that. I would counter that because it was refit to fight the dominion..they had well over 1k..the odyssey was ready for a fight..
But did they on-load personnel? That's highly doubtful.
The ship had a standard crew complement of 1,012 persons (from Memory Alpha); standard. 15,000 is packing the decks. 6,000 would be a vast over-staffing, likely for specialized, time sensitive missions... A rescue mission would not be such a mission, (something a Galaxy class would easily be tasked to do). (Also, it's not like the Ent-D was running on a skeleton crew.) The loss would be less than 1K- depending on how much of that 1K crew is considered non-essential.
And for comparison- 11K were killed at Wolf 359- 10% of that battle is still pretty huge (before the Dominion War got rolling). 50%? That's pretty unrealistic to think it would have passed with nary a passing since, (or that the response is barely a recon in force)
.
Gul Dukat was by far the single best part about Star Trek Deep Space 9.
agreed
I also think that Sloan from Section 31 could have become just as good if given more time for the character to develop, but was introduced too late.
Garek is arguably better, both were well written and well acted.
Well if you remember there are also parallels between the Borg and Dominion in regards to the Federation. the Borg in Enterprise were aware of the federation 200 years before the TNG era and sent a message to the Delta Quadrant to make them aware of them. It was also said that the Dominion was aware of the Federation before the Wormhole opened and expected to have to deal with them some 200 years in the future. Now we now the Founders sent out young changlings into the Galaxy to explore and learn and eventually return with that info and that somehow Odo found his way thru the wormhole with no memory or abilities, Was this done by the Wormhole Aliens so that Bajor would have a founder ally? Also in Star Trek the Undiscovered Country when Kirk and McCoy are in prison on Urapenta they come across a changeling though we didn't now what it was, so that tells me the founders were also aware of the Klingons. Not to mention the 3rd shape shifter Odo meet that boarded his run about. I think it gives the Dominion a lot of Back story and aids to create a lot of potential and future material. I would think it would make a great series to find out how the Dominion was aware of so much info about the other Quadrants so far back giving they did not have Transwarp tech. And how they got those Changelings into the other Quadrants so quickly. there is so much Paramount and CBS could do with this Franchise rather than make Piss Jobs like Discovery and this alternate Universe set of Movies.
Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order were official branches of their respective governments and were very public about it while Section 31 was a lot more secretive.
agreed.
the Tosk from ds9"captive pursuit" were genetic engineered maybe the Founders used the tosk as base line for the jem'hadar.
turn the hunted, into to the hunters
in a similar why the founders uplifted the Vorta
Hmm.. That could be an interesting proposition.. Especially when you are given the abilities of the tosk.
Do you have a video about the Maquis as well?
Only storyline where the Federation is actually part of the bad guys.
I'll put it in the hopper
Startrek lives ❕❕❕
IT LIVES!
I was also wondering if cardassia built for of the space stations and they didn't use them why didn't the Federation grab them overhaul them and bring them back and attach them into a 4 to give more Firepower and more stability
how did the Cardassians never find the wormhole?
I enjoyed the dominion war, but the ending where the changelings suddenly changed their mind's was a copout.
I don't know if I completely agree. I mean her people were dying .. and we know you can manipulate someone in a weakened position in 'the great link'.. so maybe that had something to do with it.
Or we can take the long view. By conceding now, the Founders survive. By surviving, they are able to take the time to slowly, and surely, draw their plans against the Federation. other then ship and troop losses, the Dominion lost NOTHING from the war. The war was fought in foreign territory and the wormhole remains intact. No industrial or territorial losses were sustained, not even civilian losses in the Dominion's core of power.
In the long term, 'surrender' in this war is the logical solution IF the federation will cure the plague.
I never understood how the Dominion didn't know about S31 when they were able to infiltrate Earth and Starfleet (DS9 - Paradise Lost). I'm sure they did but there was no way for the Dominion to infiltrate that organization because of how they operate. Or they didn't see a "need" to do so seeing the Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order to be larger threats because they take more direct action.
Section 31 wasn't part of Starfleet or the Federation. They operated outside of government authority and jurisdiction as a rogue agency. Section 31 practiced Eugenics and developed bio-weapons that were against the Federation charter and Starfleet protocols. Section 31 didn't even keep their records on computer but keep everything memorized inside the brains Eugenicly enhanced humans. The Dominion could have downloaded and stole every compute file in Starfleet intelligence and they would still have no knowledge of Section 31. Officially the organization does not exist.
The best intelligence agency is the one that is completely invisible. Information gets stolen without the owners ever finding out they have been infiltrated. VIPs mysteriously die by unknown causes either seeming natural or accidental and nobody suspects a thing. The founders were infected with bio weapons and never saw it coming until they were falling over dead. That is the way it is done.
Have you done a Borg v Dominion video?
Indeed
What if planets in the Gamma Quadrant voluntarily petitioned to join the Dominion because they wanted the security and stability offered by the Founders?
Regarding the Dominion, I know they were designed as an Anti-Federation, but are they really just an Empire that conquers other species like the Romulans, etc.? OR do they genetically engineer all their member species? I only recall ever seeing the Vorta and Jem Hadar, both created by the Founders.
Per the resources I found, and on the show - they only used engineering on the Vorta and Jem Hadar.. You meet other species that are Dominion subjects..
LR you are still leaving out what the writers said, that the Dominion new about the UFP 100 years before the Wormhole was discovered. The Dominion was slowly building up for when they expected to encounter them about 100 years after TNG.
This wasn't in any official canon that I could find, nor was it referenced in the show. I've also looked for the resources where the writers spoke of this. I don't doubt it exists, but canon wise..there's no reason for it but to say 'the writers said'.. by that logic though.. Gene Roddenberry often said that starfleet wasn't a military-..which I think we both agree is bollocks. I'll see if I can find it. I am doing a video in about a month (I have about 2-3 more episodes for the dominion war series) and that's when I'll be hitting every issue people have had with the series and discussing them.
The Dominion likely miss Section 31 simple because most people Star Trek total unware there existed and they cover tracks will.
agreed.
If he said 2000 and then he said 10,000 I think they existed for probably about 4,000 years
If that were the en that one ship blowing up was more people that died then at Wolf 359
If that were the case then one ship blowing up took more people then Wolf 359 and that was over 11k
I have a question: what exactly was Bajor's status during the Dominion War?
I remember that they signed a non-aggression pact with the Dominion early on. But all throughout the war they both tacitly and explicitly allowed the Federation to use ostensibly Bajoran bases and territory and even openly provided Bajoran military personnel to serve with and under Starfleet! What gives?
They did so for the Dominion as well. Bajor was Neutral.. Whomever had ships there.. Bajor let. They were pro-Federation..but just acted neutral. Ironically, this saved them.. If you remember before the war.. Sisko stopped them from joining the federation in an episode..he saw a vision with 'locusts' which was the dominion.
I would like to know how come nobody never transports say attached cool nuke of one thousand megatons are ten thousand megatons and what would be the range of a transporter since you have to lower your Shields and walk be the blast radius with it knock out the enemy shielding and engines and weapons were totally destroyed the ship if a 50 Megaton was detonated it would blow up 300 square miles of real estate so what would 1000 or bigger make
The Enterprise D held over a thousand that included family’s. the Odessey dumped all non essential personnel of the ship at Deep Space 9. so again where do you get 15k from? I like your videos keep them up.just get your facts straight
Part advance be agency most power almost complete unware of is the fact outside check out not know about either. Likley Section 31 most powerful intellegence and back ops agency in entire Alpa and Bate Qaudrons and what know about Game and Delta quadron they might most effective in the Milkway Galaxy.
*FEAR DENIES FAITH!*
indeed.
VICTORY... IS... LIFE
+Medalion #dejavu
haha yeah... i am just a huge Dominion fan :P
Today is a good day to die.
funny i saw the dominion as good guy the federation seem evil to me obey or else looking down at any one out to make money or protect their Territory dominion mistake is the should found a way to cause the earth star to go nova
Wo wait when did 15k Starfleet members die? Did you say before the destruction of the Odessey?
Up to.. the odyssey could hold up to 15k..it was most likely 1300 to 2000 officers..more likely 1300 or less
Lore Reloaded please take my response’s with grain of salt. I grew up with Star Trek. I know the story lines and I’m good with details. not all of it. just the ones I liked
Maybe 500 no more then that
I would like to know what ever happened with cardassia after the war what about the Dominion soldiers what about the Breen that stick their two cents worth in how many died in all of it Klingons romulans Federation Kardashian Dominion what ever happened after Deep Space Nine and what about the technology did Jane we brought back from the future when she was allowed to destroy the Borg
+Richard Martin have you seen the other episodes in the series?
i think the dominion missed section 31 due to the facts of 1 they was not well known to all but a handful of people 2 the only public info on them is a old charter of the founding of star fleet bound to be built on by like the us constsoion and admenments 3 there was no HQ for S31 as said by sloen or how ever you spell his name all the info of S31 is in the heads of their members ie hardly any paper trail for someone to follow unlike the other big players in the spy game they had a hq 100s of members and well known by the other races 4 how i think the changelings got their info was basicly they posed as someone very monor takeing dirt jobs no one wanted and looked up info on star fleet news and what ever setup they had for their verson of the internet for all races 5 going along the same idea there is power in word of mouth and roumers of the poor long in short of it they aim for well known people but not well known people who has public info but still low key so what ever actions they take wont rise a eye brow
I got not so much a question as a topic perhaps ya might find interesting too. When we see the Federation truly form itself its an Alliance for four distinct races. At least two the Vulcans and Andorians to my mind have far superior ships in design and power and tech and yet by the time of the Dominion War when the Federation goes to all out war ALL of its ships are the ugly Human designed Disc style things. So does Androia, Vulcan, Tellrites do they still have their own ships and armadas? Let me know if I am making sense I just find it odd for the Andorian empire to not include their in my mind impressive warships to the protection of the Federation same with Vulcans.
first
+AGuyNamedDiego Videos & Music #aherobyanyothername
Are you Jem'Hadar then ? :).