You’re right. I do mention it as more of interacting with dimensions in the video, but I think time travel is more recognizable as a term to most people and easier to engage with. Thanks for the comment!
@@jmpmp_505 it certainly fits the markers. how could Eren cause himself from the future? which is precendent then? the paradox is he(past) caused himself (present) which is all caused by himself (future). his future self could not have been who he is if not for his past cirumstances which was orchestrated by his future self which could not have been unless circumstances were different..and the cycle goes on. it's a sort of inversion of the grandfather's paradox which is itself a time paradox. it's paradoxical because eren as an entity is a closed loop future-preceded entity in an otherwise continuum universe which is forwarded by past preceded causation. I don't see why this isn't a time paradox.
@@andrewcalebgorospe2754 I'm pretty sure it is only a paradox when there is a contradiction. Eren from the future sent back memories to his father in the past, causing him to be born and grow up to be the person he is. There isn't any contradictory events, even though it might not make sense how this loop came about in the first place. There isn't really a "first place" anyway, it just happens because it already happened.
deterministic timeline is the hardest to do but also it's the only realistic and non goofy way to time travel i think. attack on titan done it so well that people don't understand that eren also didn't completely understands this. eren is moving without a clear grasp of what is going on and what is going to happen. but some part of him, that is the founder, knows. but it's just too much to grasp all at once for just one person if you're actually in it and have an active role. eren actually directly says ''my head is all messed up'', yeah, cause he can't really understand the concept of non linear time. it's actually kinda impossible for humans to understand this concept. AOT nailed it. hope your channel grows fast bro. i like these kind of deep dive videos that most popular aot reviewers don't even think to realize.
Thank you for the awesome comment! I agree 100% about Eren not entirely understanding his role in the story, it also makes the viewer feel in the dark as well. Because we are supposed to be watching the story through his lens and aren’t privy to the twist until he is too. Happy to see you back in the comments! Hope to see you around in more videos.
@@fica1137 Idk life itself might be a paradox. Especially when you start to really nail down concepts like infinity you start realizing almost what apears to be contradictions in our very reality.
It's entirely consistent with your head Canon that you've imposed on the story, what 139 is not consistent with is the story itself and its themes. If YOU had actually read the story instead of eremika fangirling like a mouth breathing moron and all of you would pull invaderzz video out of your rectums you'd see that the entire story is nullified by the ending and has no point because of it. And before it gets even mentioned, he did Not rumble the world cause it didn't look like armins book, which he even forgot about in Shiga arc. He rumbled it because it turned out that the humanity outside the walls were just another obstacle, a wall, because they were hostile and wanted to wipe them out like every previous threat they encountered before. TED talk over.
I saw AOT "time travel" more like a Self-fulfilling prophecy. Destiny has been set in stone by the Last Attack Titan. All the previous Attack Titan has received the prophecy and being manipulated leading to the last Attack Titan. I also like the way they call it "memory of the future". Memory for something that already happened and cannot be changed. When Eren "travels" to past memory, It didn't change any timeline at all, It simply reveals what already happened from a different perspective that only Attack titan can see.
I read a theory that stated that the Attack Titan's ability to see the memories of its future inheritors wasn't even its original ability. When Zeke and Eren went to the Paths and Eren sent his memories back, that was both the first time the Attack Titan had been able to do that, but also because he did that, that meant that it always had that ability. That explains why Frieda was confused about the Attack Titan's ability, because it had never had that ability, but because Eren did it in that moment, it became its ability since the beginning. I don't know if this makes sense or I explained myself poorly, but it sounds very cool in my head and I like it a lot better than "this was its ability and for thousands of years nobody, but spilled the beans on the Attack Titan's power" I'm an anime only btw.
Eren Kruger saw the memories of Grisha - "If you want to save Mikasa and Armin.." - so yes, the Attack Titan does have the ability to peak into the future inheritors memories. Also it lines up perfect with the Attack Titans symbolysm perfectly. The Founding Titan's inheritors are a slave to the past, due to King Fritz's ideology, while the Attack Titan users are slave to the future, as they are destined to get there, and the memories are a good guide for that.
The titan power as was shown during season 3, from what I recall, the current user of the power can see the life of the previous user, the royal blood some titan users have can see more than just the previous user's, eren uses his brother's royal blood to see more and do more by the end of the series.
In AOT is more like a time paradox than time time travel. While it is deterministic, it's also a series of events with no clear beginning The chronological order from episode one would be something like (manga spoilers): -At the beginning, Young Eren has a nightmare (memories) and wakes up crying -Future Eren and Zeke look through Grisha's memories and follow him for the day -Eren saves Bertoldt by sending Dina to his house, killing his mother and planting the deep hate for titans into Eren -Kid Eren and Mikasa are saved by Hannes -Eren shows Grisha a combination of his memories from the future (that's how he is able to hear him and see Zeke) and Grisha's own memories of Faye (to push him to kill the Reiss family) -Grisha, unable to fully understand Eren's plan (Eren won't show him) follows through with it anyways. Grisha passes the Attack Titan down to Eren. -Three seasons happen. Eren unlocks Grisha's memories of the cave (where he can see and hear Eren), and his own future memories (The Rumbling) -The incapability of changing future events sends Eren into a depression, paradoxically convincing him the Rumbling is the only solution -Eren and Zeke go into Grisha's memories, Eren does what he does -At the end, Eren dies and sends his memories into Young Eren (the nightmare)
I'd add the original movie "12 Monkeys" as another great use of a deterministic timeline to recontextualize the entire story in a satisfying way without any time travel paradoxes.
As an experienced Homestuck reader, I can eat loops like these for breakfast. But seriously though, the entirety of Homestuck's plot is made up of several interlocking causal loops like this, that even encompasses alternate timelines that end up feeding back into the main loop through time travel. You end up getting several moments and scenes akin the the one in AoT that reveals the loop, where just when you think you have the time loop worked out in your head, the scope expands to reveal that loop was a smaller piece of a larger one. What's nice is that even after those larger loops are revealed, smaller ones are still used here and there throughout the plot, adding to the overall complexity without expanding the main loop too often. Other series that continuously expand the scope of an aspect of their plot often forget that they can still use the older and simpler versions of plot elements, which harms the overall consistency of the series, since you're often left wondering why characters aren't doing the simpler version of X or why everything seems to revolve around the newest biggest plot device, instead of the older ones retaining their significance to their natural end point.
dude i just found this video and ur channel and i looove that you covered this. it’s one of my most favourite aspects of AOT and i’m glad i’m not the only one! i hope ur channel grows fast!! ❤
I actually have an idea for a story that I'm cementing and its like a mix of the "Deterministic Timeline" but going back in the past will Change stuff Timeline. Its a superhero story and my main character is a butterfly theme superhero but her powers basically revolve around "Change" and at the center of it "The Butterfly Effect". So how can you have a timeline where stuff set in stone while also pulling off and making sure that stuff changes. Basically at the beginning of my story my character gets a dream of a distaster happening and when she goes to school she thinks she sees a younger version of herself but the memory isn't quite right and she runs into a pole and falls down when a older (like later 20s early 30s) women helps her up and a butterfly lands on her hand. Well at the end of the story we see the main character as an adult walking and she ends helping a young girl as a butterfly lands on her hand. And as you can guess its the same scene but in both scenes there is slight differences that basically show that things are different and will/can change for this younger version of herself.
I love the concept of the butterfly effect being incorporated into a retroactive story! My only experience with the concept was “until dawn” on the PlayStation 4. But that game doesn’t explore time travel so I would be interested to see how it would play into an idea like yours! Thanks for the comment and I hope you’ll be back for future videos.
I could be mistaken, but I believe the Attack Titan can only see the memories of future wielders, not past wielders. Eren is able to see memories of the past through the Founding Titan.
all titan warriors see the memories of those who were the titan they inherited, only the attack titan and the founder can see the pathes from which everything can be seen as time does not exist there, only the founder can control others connected to the paths but only if they have royal blood, Eren has been able to control others via the path only when he is in direct contact with royal blood which he has been with 3 different people
3:42 eren is only the protagonist, as antagonist doesnt mean villain its just someone who opposes the protagonist eg in death note light is the villain but is still the protagonist, unless you mean eren is literally opposing his past self which he kinda does so he is kinda a semi antagonist
You could take Eren’s initial stance towards the world as him establishing himself as the protagonist, but I think since it’s a determined timeline, it could be hard to label him as only one or the other as he is acting in both interests seemingly the entire time. I do think my intention was to mean it as him going agains the initial motivation of the show, where he exhibits very antagonistic behaviors. Thanks for the comment!
@@FiguringOutFantasy i guessed that was what you meant, he is kind of his own antagonist while also being the protagonist, maybe the antagonist is actually the cycle itself
The only issue with this type of writing is that although it's rewatchable it's not really rewatchable. Let me clarify in many great films you can watch over and over to feel the story multiple times. However, attack on titan does everything so well that when you go back and rewatch it with the knowledge of the twist you can never feel the story the same way knowing the truth. It's still a great rewatch but that mystery was so integral that it just doesn't have that same feeling.
I totally get what you mean, and it is a shame I can’t get that’s same feeling when I watched it through the first time. There are some aspects to recognizing hints on a second or third watch through, but I definitely agree there’s an aspect to these shows that goes all in on a first watch through experience. Thanks for the comment!😎
@@JohanLiebert756 I agree the amount of thought and foreshadowing is crazy. It’s insane to see it from that perspective on a 2nd and third watch threw. But I can’t binge each season like I used too. So much of the magic in AOT was that mystery.
This is why I think Terminator 2, despite being a masterpiece for its action, isn’t as good of a story as Terminator 1. Terminator 1 is revealed to be deterministic even though Kyle says otherwise but T2 walks that back hard
I unfortunately haven't seen Steins Gate, I'm interested to hear about how they do it differently! Thanks for the comment and hope to see you in future comment sections!
Yeah, I think people are comparing attack on Titan to the movie butterfly effect. Where Ashton Kutcher goes back in time, and he changed as part of his life and his future changes. But attack on Titan is more like assassin’s creed. Where are you go back into your ancestors memories. And your ancestors are able to see glimpses of the future.
I think may have just slightly misheard me. I mention that the attack titan’s specific fighting STYLE is a bit lackluster and boring in terms of comparing it to its other fellow titans. We know that the fighting ability isn’t what makes the attack titan special though! Thanks for the comment.
@@FiguringOutFantasy ahhhh I see, I always thought it was awesome mostly because Im an mma fan and they replicate the moves so realistically and accurately in the anime, but I can def understand your side, also great video!
@@kyshim1247 Now that you mention that aspect I honestly can see how I may need to look a bit further into the actual style of fighting, and thank you for the compliment! I just uploaded a video on Armin that if you're a fan of AOT i'm sure you'd enjoy!
I hadn’t heard of it so I had to look legacy of kain up and I was shocked to see it’s a video game! That’s awesome that a video game approach was able to capture the same enjoyment as the examples I brought up. Thanks for the comment!
I don't consider AOT time travel, the paths operate beyond time there is no time in the paths, its the place where all eldians link with the founder they are all her descendants and all linked by the paths, the fact the attack titan can see the paths, but only the founder can communicate with all those connected to it, is just more showing all the pieces of the jigsaw that all the warrior titans were at 1 time 1 titan/person that was fragmented into pieces. it also eludes to the Norse mythology it all comes from the 9 worlds held by Yggdrasil exist at the same time but can't see each other but they intersect at certain points, Ymir the serpent chews at the root of the tree sapping life from the life tree, ymir is also the father of the giants and is killed by his children.
I’ve definitely heard of it but I’ll be sure to check it out! Thank you very much for the compliment and I hope to have you around for the next video. 😎
@@FiguringOutFantasy you will get a LOT out of Dark. I put it off for years but finally watched it a couple months ago, very worth it. I really liked your video, deterministic timelines are the coolest for sure
Doesn’t a deterministic timeline seemingly go contrary to Eren’s claim that everything done was of his own free will? How can free will exist in an event that was predestined to occur?
That’s exactly how it’s supposed to be presented I would imagine. Eren’s initial idea of freedom was shut down once he realized what was over the walls. And later when he gains realization of the future, he understands that nothing he was doing mattered, he developed a new idea of being free willed through seeing his goal to completion no matter the morality. Thanks for the comment!
Time travel isn't possible without the existence of parallel universes and many world interpretation ,in other words We all are psychos ,All 7.5+ billion people When all the psychos are aligned with Emmanuel with the existence of the beast
Eren never opposed himself. He is not an antagonist. He may be a villain at the same time as being the protagonist, but he aint a antagonist if he never opposed himself.
You’re definitely right that he isn’t the antagonist in that sense, but I guess it could be how you look at it. Is he a protagonist and not the antagonist in the fact that it’s his story to complete? Or is the story really about Paradis and Marley where Eren is the protagonist for paradis but the antagonist for Marley? It’s fun to be able to look at such a morality flip flop and determine who are the hero’s and villains. Thanks for the comment!
Tenet is awesome! The turnstile is definitely a fun concept to watch play out, but I feel like aot and interstellar execute it more naturally solely because of the focus not even being on time travel to begin with. Thanks for the comment! Hope you stick around for more. 🫡
I have strong feelings about this, so I'm going to speak in a very strong way, but I still think this video is great, while the logic it basis itself on is not, so kudos to the creator. But back to my argument. I have never seen Interstellar, so I can't comment on that, but I can say with assurance that Attack On Titan's fourth-dimensional interactivity is the single greatest writing mistake that Isayama made in the entire run of the series. If one is to look at it from a technical point of view, it makes no sense. Eren only obtains the Founder due to Grisha's choice to murder the Reiss family and consume Frieda, but that choice only happened due to Grisha witnessing Eren's future memories of traveling through Grisha's memories. If one explains it by saying that the story itself is a constant loop and repeats itself, that also raises a problem. Where does the loop begin? There must be a version of said loop in which Grisha kills the Reiss family of his own volition...right? But we already know that that wouldn't happen due to Grisha's feelings. The story itself now makes zero sense as it has broken the ties of cause and effect that bind events together. Thematically it also kills the series imo, as the premise for Eren's character is, effectively, that of a revolutionary, clearly displayed in his high levels of energy and anger, as well as strong beliefs and determination, plus his utter hatred of his foes, the Titans. To make Eren into a slave-like figure who doesn't understand what he's doing and is merely walking a path of broken mindlessness is, in my opinion, frankly stupid. This theory is further supported when one realizes that removing the fourth-dimensional interactivity doesn't change Eren's character arc at all! His change in between the Return to Shiganshina and Marley Arcs, as well as his choices throughout, makes total sense if looked at as a complete and utter warping of Eren's worldview, such that he takes it upon himself to lead his country to victory over his foes, even if those foes are humans just like himself. If you disagree please state why eloquently; I've been trying to understand the logic behind thinking the "time travel" was a good writing choice.
The loop doesn't begin anywhere, it's a fixed singular timeline, Everything that will happen did happen, and any changes to the past had always happened. It's a very complex and confusing thing to explain so I suggest you look it up. Like for instance if from the future you went back into the past to show yourself an invention you had made, and that leads to your past self actually inventing the same thing and then the loop continues. The loop didn't start anywhere as even the original future self had himself come from the future and show him the invention. so effectively, the invention of said device has no origin. This is the bootstrap paradox. Isayama clearly wrote AOT based on this concept, and there are many other highly rated shows that do the same thing like Dark. Nobody really considers it a plot hole, as it's a paradox, but you do you , as I also honestly found it very confusing.
SPOILER: .,.. Every Attack Titan inheritor becomes part of a hive mind that stretches across time with Eren, the last inheritor, passing down his will & coordinating (pun intended) the series of events that allows him to inherit it in the first place.
he was trapped in a paradox because of mikasa, his choices were not exist and let her die or be sold into prostitution. or be born, save her and destroy the world.
Thank you for the comment! I wouldn’t really consider aot a “loop” if we’re labeling things. It could possibly be considered a loop when all is said and done because of a final playthrough of events from our eyes, but the execution of this tactic through the use of the attack titan memories allows for it to not be a basic “travel back in time” instance from my perspective. Thanks again for interacting with the video!
Wtf kind of comparison, they go about it completely differently; one is based on the laws of general relativity and the other was made to aid in telling a story. Not sure how Steins;Gate is not included smh
Thanks for the comment! Sure interstellar is based on relativity and it’s how the characters get to where they are, but because they incorporate manipulating the 4th dimension, it stretches beyond simple time relativity. Both show instances of revealing influence towards an event that has already happened. You aren’t wrong, but I think you’re missing the other half of what I talked about with determinism. Thanks again for commenting!😎
Contrary to what I often hear, I fully consider Attack on Titan to be time travel. No person may be physically going through time, but information is actually traveling through time.
AOT is technically not even time travel. It's how memories can transfer through Paths which is a dimension where time has no meaning.
You’re right. I do mention it as more of interacting with dimensions in the video, but I think time travel is more recognizable as a term to most people and easier to engage with. Thanks for the comment!
"time paradox" is a better term imo
@@andrewcalebgorospe2754 but it’s not a paradox
@@jmpmp_505 it certainly fits the markers. how could Eren cause himself from the future? which is precendent then? the paradox is he(past) caused himself (present) which is all caused by himself (future). his future self could not have been who he is if not for his past cirumstances which was orchestrated by his future self which could not have been unless circumstances were different..and the cycle goes on. it's a sort of inversion of the grandfather's paradox which is itself a time paradox. it's paradoxical because eren as an entity is a closed loop future-preceded entity in an otherwise continuum universe which is forwarded by past preceded causation. I don't see why this isn't a time paradox.
@@andrewcalebgorospe2754 I'm pretty sure it is only a paradox when there is a contradiction. Eren from the future sent back memories to his father in the past, causing him to be born and grow up to be the person he is. There isn't any contradictory events, even though it might not make sense how this loop came about in the first place. There isn't really a "first place" anyway, it just happens because it already happened.
deterministic timeline is the hardest to do but also it's the only realistic and non goofy way to time travel i think. attack on titan done it so well that people don't understand that eren also didn't completely understands this. eren is moving without a clear grasp of what is going on and what is going to happen. but some part of him, that is the founder, knows. but it's just too much to grasp all at once for just one person if you're actually in it and have an active role. eren actually directly says ''my head is all messed up'', yeah, cause he can't really understand the concept of non linear time. it's actually kinda impossible for humans to understand this concept. AOT nailed it.
hope your channel grows fast bro. i like these kind of deep dive videos that most popular aot reviewers don't even think to realize.
Thank you for the awesome comment! I agree 100% about Eren not entirely understanding his role in the story, it also makes the viewer feel in the dark as well. Because we are supposed to be watching the story through his lens and aren’t privy to the twist until he is too. Happy to see you back in the comments! Hope to see you around in more videos.
It creates a paradox so it's not realistic
@@fica1137 Idk life itself might be a paradox. Especially when you start to really nail down concepts like infinity you start realizing almost what apears to be contradictions in our very reality.
@Weyland Punani Wut? What retcon? 139 is entirely consistent with the deterministic timeline, there is even a specific moment to address it.
It's entirely consistent with your head Canon that you've imposed on the story, what 139 is not consistent with is the story itself and its themes.
If YOU had actually read the story instead of eremika fangirling like a mouth breathing moron and all of you would pull invaderzz video out of your rectums you'd see that the entire story is nullified by the ending and has no point because of it.
And before it gets even mentioned, he did Not rumble the world cause it didn't look like armins book, which he even forgot about in Shiga arc.
He rumbled it because it turned out that the humanity outside the walls were just another obstacle, a wall, because they were hostile and wanted to wipe them out like every previous threat they encountered before.
TED talk over.
I saw AOT "time travel" more like a Self-fulfilling prophecy. Destiny has been set in stone by the Last Attack Titan. All the previous Attack Titan has received the prophecy and being manipulated leading to the last Attack Titan.
I also like the way they call it "memory of the future". Memory for something that already happened and cannot be changed.
When Eren "travels" to past memory, It didn't change any timeline at all, It simply reveals what already happened from a different perspective that only Attack titan can see.
It’s like the movie “Arrival”
Interstellar being one of my absolute must-watch favorite movies and Attack on Titan being one of my absolute must-watch animes for a reason!
I wish I could go back to seeing them for the first time!
I read a theory that stated that the Attack Titan's ability to see the memories of its future inheritors wasn't even its original ability. When Zeke and Eren went to the Paths and Eren sent his memories back, that was both the first time the Attack Titan had been able to do that, but also because he did that, that meant that it always had that ability. That explains why Frieda was confused about the Attack Titan's ability, because it had never had that ability, but because Eren did it in that moment, it became its ability since the beginning. I don't know if this makes sense or I explained myself poorly, but it sounds very cool in my head and I like it a lot better than "this was its ability and for thousands of years nobody, but spilled the beans on the Attack Titan's power" I'm an anime only btw.
I actually think that AT has the power to see future because Eren went to paths. And not like ymir made a ability when creating it.
That's a very mind blowing perspective, I love it
Eren Kruger saw the memories of Grisha - "If you want to save Mikasa and Armin.." - so yes, the Attack Titan does have the ability to peak into the future inheritors memories.
Also it lines up perfect with the Attack Titans symbolysm perfectly. The Founding Titan's inheritors are a slave to the past, due to King Fritz's ideology, while the Attack Titan users are slave to the future, as they are destined to get there, and the memories are a good guide for that.
The titan power as was shown during season 3, from what I recall, the current user of the power can see the life of the previous user, the royal blood some titan users have can see more than just the previous user's, eren uses his brother's royal blood to see more and do more by the end of the series.
Underrated channel; I hope your channel grows. Keep up the quality content.
Thank you very much! I appreciate the encouraging comment and it surely helps in making me want to make more content like this!
How the hell do you only have 150 subs with this quality of content hella underrated keep the great work up.
Thank you! Happy to hear you dig my content. Hoping to continue to provide videos people enjoy!
complete underrated channel my guy, i hope you grown soon. 10 out of 10
Thank you for the kind words! Hope to see you around for future videos. 😎
In AOT is more like a time paradox than time time travel. While it is deterministic, it's also a series of events with no clear beginning
The chronological order from episode one would be something like (manga spoilers):
-At the beginning, Young Eren has a nightmare (memories) and wakes up crying
-Future Eren and Zeke look through Grisha's memories and follow him for the day
-Eren saves Bertoldt by sending Dina to his house, killing his mother and planting the deep hate for titans into Eren
-Kid Eren and Mikasa are saved by Hannes
-Eren shows Grisha a combination of his memories from the future (that's how he is able to hear him and see Zeke) and Grisha's own memories of Faye (to push him to kill the Reiss family)
-Grisha, unable to fully understand Eren's plan (Eren won't show him) follows through with it anyways. Grisha passes the Attack Titan down to Eren.
-Three seasons happen. Eren unlocks Grisha's memories of the cave (where he can see and hear Eren), and his own future memories (The Rumbling)
-The incapability of changing future events sends Eren into a depression, paradoxically convincing him the Rumbling is the only solution
-Eren and Zeke go into Grisha's memories, Eren does what he does
-At the end, Eren dies and sends his memories into Young Eren (the nightmare)
I'd add the original movie "12 Monkeys" as another great use of a deterministic timeline to recontextualize the entire story in a satisfying way without any time travel paradoxes.
I would also put “the arrival” time travel in this list, is a super cool concept of time and information
The Arrival was an awesome example! I definitely agree.
As an experienced Homestuck reader, I can eat loops like these for breakfast.
But seriously though, the entirety of Homestuck's plot is made up of several interlocking causal loops like this, that even encompasses alternate timelines that end up feeding back into the main loop through time travel.
You end up getting several moments and scenes akin the the one in AoT that reveals the loop, where just when you think you have the time loop worked out in your head, the scope expands to reveal that loop was a smaller piece of a larger one.
What's nice is that even after those larger loops are revealed, smaller ones are still used here and there throughout the plot, adding to the overall complexity without expanding the main loop too often.
Other series that continuously expand the scope of an aspect of their plot often forget that they can still use the older and simpler versions of plot elements, which harms the overall consistency of the series, since you're often left wondering why characters aren't doing the simpler version of X or why everything seems to revolve around the newest biggest plot device, instead of the older ones retaining their significance to their natural end point.
I warned you about doomed timelines bro.
You should watch Dark if you haven’t already. Extremely good execution of time travel
dude i just found this video and ur channel and i looove that you covered this. it’s one of my most favourite aspects of AOT and i’m glad i’m not the only one! i hope ur channel grows fast!! ❤
Thank you for the great comment! The videos are fun to make because of topics like these. Was certainly itching to make one on aot!
This dude do be making content worthy of thousands of subscribers tho. Good job bro.
Thank you for the kind words! Happy to hear you’re enjoying the content.
Great video chief, I would only use cuts a little bit less frenquently. Over all pretty nice! Much luck in your journey!
Thank you! Any suggestions to make these videos better are always welcome, and hope to see you in future sections. 😎
Loved It, What an amazing story, what an amazing ride❤
I actually have an idea for a story that I'm cementing and its like a mix of the "Deterministic Timeline" but going back in the past will Change stuff Timeline. Its a superhero story and my main character is a butterfly theme superhero but her powers basically revolve around "Change" and at the center of it "The Butterfly Effect". So how can you have a timeline where stuff set in stone while also pulling off and making sure that stuff changes.
Basically at the beginning of my story my character gets a dream of a distaster happening and when she goes to school she thinks she sees a younger version of herself but the memory isn't quite right and she runs into a pole and falls down when a older (like later 20s early 30s) women helps her up and a butterfly lands on her hand.
Well at the end of the story we see the main character as an adult walking and she ends helping a young girl as a butterfly lands on her hand. And as you can guess its the same scene but in both scenes there is slight differences that basically show that things are different and will/can change for this younger version of herself.
I love the concept of the butterfly effect being incorporated into a retroactive story! My only experience with the concept was “until dawn” on the PlayStation 4. But that game doesn’t explore time travel so I would be interested to see how it would play into an idea like yours! Thanks for the comment and I hope you’ll be back for future videos.
Kinda seems like how Stein's gate does it. At least how time changes and how it's perceived.
Love the video. Keep up the good work ❤🔥
Thank you so much! Happy to have you here.
what is the first song that appeared? i feel like i listened to this somewhere obvious like minecraft, but i cant assosciate with anything
It’s called “crystal palace crawl” from the original paper mario! It does sound something like Minecraft’s ominous ost though I agree.
Another story that I think did this exact thing that is often overlooked is Dune. In fact eren was likely inspired by Paul Atredies.
I could be mistaken, but I believe the Attack Titan can only see the memories of future wielders, not past wielders. Eren is able to see memories of the past through the Founding Titan.
all titan warriors see the memories of those who were the titan they inherited, only the attack titan and the founder can see the pathes from which everything can be seen as time does not exist there, only the founder can control others connected to the paths but only if they have royal blood, Eren has been able to control others via the path only when he is in direct contact with royal blood which he has been with 3 different people
3:42 eren is only the protagonist, as antagonist doesnt mean villain its just someone who opposes the protagonist eg in death note light is the villain but is still the protagonist, unless you mean eren is literally opposing his past self which he kinda does so he is kinda a semi antagonist
You could take Eren’s initial stance towards the world as him establishing himself as the protagonist, but I think since it’s a determined timeline, it could be hard to label him as only one or the other as he is acting in both interests seemingly the entire time. I do think my intention was to mean it as him going agains the initial motivation of the show, where he exhibits very antagonistic behaviors. Thanks for the comment!
@@FiguringOutFantasy i guessed that was what you meant, he is kind of his own antagonist while also being the protagonist, maybe the antagonist is actually the cycle itself
ayo you deserve more subs dude
Thank you so much!
The only issue with this type of writing is that although it's rewatchable it's not really rewatchable. Let me clarify in many great films you can watch over and over to feel the story multiple times. However, attack on titan does everything so well that when you go back and rewatch it with the knowledge of the twist you can never feel the story the same way knowing the truth. It's still a great rewatch but that mystery was so integral that it just doesn't have that same feeling.
I totally get what you mean, and it is a shame I can’t get that’s same feeling when I watched it through the first time. There are some aspects to recognizing hints on a second or third watch through, but I definitely agree there’s an aspect to these shows that goes all in on a first watch through experience. Thanks for the comment!😎
Nah man, AoT has so much foreshadowing in it so enjoy it when you rewatch it. Because of the foreshadowing.
@@JohanLiebert756 I agree the amount of thought and foreshadowing is crazy. It’s insane to see it from that perspective on a 2nd and third watch threw. But I can’t binge each season like I used too. So much of the magic in AOT was that mystery.
@@charlybr0wn226 I don't know why you can't binge each Season. But it's fun rewatching it again.
This is why I think Terminator 2, despite being a masterpiece for its action, isn’t as good of a story as Terminator 1. Terminator 1 is revealed to be deterministic even though Kyle says otherwise but T2 walks that back hard
Logical best use of a time loop
do you have an opinion on Steins;Gate and they way they approached time travelling?
I unfortunately haven't seen Steins Gate, I'm interested to hear about how they do it differently! Thanks for the comment and hope to see you in future comment sections!
@@FiguringOutFantasy yeah the main difference is the use of alternate timelines to change the «main» timeline. You should see it. Ill stick around!
Yeah, I think people are comparing attack on Titan to the movie butterfly effect. Where Ashton Kutcher goes back in time, and he changed as part of his life and his future changes. But attack on Titan is more like assassin’s creed. Where are you go back into your ancestors memories. And your ancestors are able to see glimpses of the future.
This guys really got something here! Snappy name too
the fights IMO are not lackluster or boring, why do u think they are tho? it'd be interesting to hear your side
I think may have just slightly misheard me. I mention that the attack titan’s specific fighting STYLE is a bit lackluster and boring in terms of comparing it to its other fellow titans. We know that the fighting ability isn’t what makes the attack titan special though! Thanks for the comment.
@@FiguringOutFantasy ahhhh I see, I always thought it was awesome mostly because Im an mma fan and they replicate the moves so realistically and accurately in the anime, but I can def understand your side, also great video!
@@kyshim1247 thank you! I have others similar to this one but I’ve honed my skills a bit. Hopefully you can enjoy them as well!
@@kyshim1247 Now that you mention that aspect I honestly can see how I may need to look a bit further into the actual style of fighting, and thank you for the compliment! I just uploaded a video on Armin that if you're a fan of AOT i'm sure you'd enjoy!
Another good example is Leagacy of Kain, wich is also the king of time travel in my opinion.
I hadn’t heard of it so I had to look legacy of kain up and I was shocked to see it’s a video game! That’s awesome that a video game approach was able to capture the same enjoyment as the examples I brought up. Thanks for the comment!
Saving this, on the chance that your video ages like milk
I don't consider AOT time travel, the paths operate beyond time there is no time in the paths, its the place where all eldians link with the founder they are all her descendants and all linked by the paths, the fact the attack titan can see the paths, but only the founder can communicate with all those connected to it, is just more showing all the pieces of the jigsaw that all the warrior titans were at 1 time 1 titan/person that was fragmented into pieces. it also eludes to the Norse mythology it all comes from the 9 worlds held by Yggdrasil exist at the same time but can't see each other but they intersect at certain points, Ymir the serpent chews at the root of the tree sapping life from the life tree, ymir is also the father of the giants and is killed by his children.
Great video. Would also suggest you watch Dark.
I’ve definitely heard of it but I’ll be sure to check it out! Thank you very much for the compliment and I hope to have you around for the next video. 😎
@@FiguringOutFantasy you will get a LOT out of Dark. I put it off for years but finally watched it a couple months ago, very worth it. I really liked your video, deterministic timelines are the coolest for sure
Doesn’t a deterministic timeline seemingly go contrary to Eren’s claim that everything done was of his own free will? How can free will exist in an event that was predestined to occur?
That’s exactly how it’s supposed to be presented I would imagine. Eren’s initial idea of freedom was shut down once he realized what was over the walls. And later when he gains realization of the future, he understands that nothing he was doing mattered, he developed a new idea of being free willed through seeing his goal to completion no matter the morality. Thanks for the comment!
@@FiguringOutFantasy that’s a very good way of putting it, thank you for the input.
Time travel isn't possible without the existence of parallel universes and many world interpretation ,in other words
We all are psychos ,All 7.5+ billion people
When all the psychos are aligned with Emmanuel with the existence of the beast
We get Many world time travel
In other words adding Visions of all people together
This is perfect
My favourite movie and my favourite series in one video😂
Eren never opposed himself. He is not an antagonist. He may be a villain at the same time as being the protagonist, but he aint a antagonist if he never opposed himself.
You’re definitely right that he isn’t the antagonist in that sense, but I guess it could be how you look at it. Is he a protagonist and not the antagonist in the fact that it’s his story to complete? Or is the story really about Paradis and Marley where Eren is the protagonist for paradis but the antagonist for Marley? It’s fun to be able to look at such a morality flip flop and determine who are the hero’s and villains. Thanks for the comment!
Wait are you the kid from the video describing the tesseract? You sound a Lot like him
I’m not! I’d love to see the video you’re talking about though.
@@FiguringOutFantasy it's titled something like "Kid explaining the 4th dimension" in TH-cam, very interesting but I don't understand a thing lol
I'm not really sure if that's the video he meant
@@agni3743 that's the one! I can't find a Link for it lol
Oh you know I'm subscribing. Anything aot... I'm in
Happy to have you along! Stay tuned for more content like this!
@@FiguringOutFantasy SUSUME!!! TATAKAE!!! SHINZO WO SASAGEYO!!! KOREGA... JIYUDA!!!
Huge if not big
But also not small?
Manga spoilers too or anime only?
Anime only!
Wow
Benjamin Franklin watch out
We conspiring against Ben Frank?
@@FiguringOutFantasy sorry meant Benjamin Button
Eren Yeager wrote attack on titan
What a way to put it! 🤣 thanks for the comment.
electric video (massive)
DAMN!! I’ve always had this kind of idea in my head. Glad someone pointed it out finally
I mean if you think AOT is time travel done right, then you've not read the ending, but you will soon enough and you'll be extremely disappointed.
it’s still done right lol, eren didn’t see everything in the future.
so, you forgot about TENET
Tenet is awesome! The turnstile is definitely a fun concept to watch play out, but I feel like aot and interstellar execute it more naturally solely because of the focus not even being on time travel to begin with. Thanks for the comment! Hope you stick around for more. 🫡
I have strong feelings about this, so I'm going to speak in a very strong way, but I still think this video is great, while the logic it basis itself on is not, so kudos to the creator. But back to my argument. I have never seen Interstellar, so I can't comment on that, but I can say with assurance that Attack On Titan's fourth-dimensional interactivity is the single greatest writing mistake that Isayama made in the entire run of the series. If one is to look at it from a technical point of view, it makes no sense. Eren only obtains the Founder due to Grisha's choice to murder the Reiss family and consume Frieda, but that choice only happened due to Grisha witnessing Eren's future memories of traveling through Grisha's memories. If one explains it by saying that the story itself is a constant loop and repeats itself, that also raises a problem. Where does the loop begin? There must be a version of said loop in which Grisha kills the Reiss family of his own volition...right? But we already know that that wouldn't happen due to Grisha's feelings. The story itself now makes zero sense as it has broken the ties of cause and effect that bind events together. Thematically it also kills the series imo, as the premise for Eren's character is, effectively, that of a revolutionary, clearly displayed in his high levels of energy and anger, as well as strong beliefs and determination, plus his utter hatred of his foes, the Titans. To make Eren into a slave-like figure who doesn't understand what he's doing and is merely walking a path of broken mindlessness is, in my opinion, frankly stupid. This theory is further supported when one realizes that removing the fourth-dimensional interactivity doesn't change Eren's character arc at all! His change in between the Return to Shiganshina and Marley Arcs, as well as his choices throughout, makes total sense if looked at as a complete and utter warping of Eren's worldview, such that he takes it upon himself to lead his country to victory over his foes, even if those foes are humans just like himself. If you disagree please state why eloquently; I've been trying to understand the logic behind thinking the "time travel" was a good writing choice.
The loop doesn't begin anywhere, it's a fixed singular timeline, Everything that will happen did happen, and any changes to the past had always happened. It's a very complex and confusing thing to explain so I suggest you look it up. Like for instance if from the future you went back into the past to show yourself an invention you had made, and that leads to your past self actually inventing the same thing and then the loop continues. The loop didn't start anywhere as even the original future self had himself come from the future and show him the invention. so effectively, the invention of said device has no origin. This is the bootstrap paradox. Isayama clearly wrote AOT based on this concept, and there are many other highly rated shows that do the same thing like Dark. Nobody really considers it a plot hole, as it's a paradox, but you do you , as I also honestly found it very confusing.
slay king
❤️🤍💙🦋🕊️
SPOILER:
.,..
Every Attack Titan inheritor becomes part of a hive mind that stretches across time with Eren, the last inheritor, passing down his will & coordinating (pun intended) the series of events that allows him to inherit it in the first place.
I think eren could alter the time line if he was wanted to but he chooses not to
he was trapped in a paradox because of mikasa, his choices were not exist and let her die or be sold into prostitution. or be born, save her and destroy the world.
AoT is a causal loop
which is caused by determinism
Thank you for the comment! I wouldn’t really consider aot a “loop” if we’re labeling things. It could possibly be considered a loop when all is said and done because of a final playthrough of events from our eyes, but the execution of this tactic through the use of the attack titan memories allows for it to not be a basic “travel back in time” instance from my perspective. Thanks again for interacting with the video!
Wtf kind of comparison, they go about it completely differently; one is based on the laws of general relativity and the other was made to aid in telling a story. Not sure how Steins;Gate is not included smh
Thanks for the comment! Sure interstellar is based on relativity and it’s how the characters get to where they are, but because they incorporate manipulating the 4th dimension, it stretches beyond simple time relativity. Both show instances of revealing influence towards an event that has already happened. You aren’t wrong, but I think you’re missing the other half of what I talked about with determinism. Thanks again for commenting!😎
go watch ben 10 first
Bro is onto nothing!!!
Sorry it didn’t resonate with you! Hopefully you can enjoy some of my other videos!
Contrary to what I often hear, I fully consider Attack on Titan to be time travel. No person may be physically going through time, but information is actually traveling through time.