I don't trust anyone who says they actually hate Wyll. Find him "boring" sure. Lots of people don't like "paragon" type characters (like Superman) unless they're edgy (like Batman). That said, Wyll definitely plays the best as the origin player character. Warlock enjoyers in DnD LOVE their patron actually showing up as part of their story instead of an ignored detail and Mizora plays the roll *perfectly*. His two storylines (dealing with Mizora and trying to find/save his dad) weave into the main story just perfectly throughout without trying to overshadow it and even his act 3 missions are about saving the city instead of himself. Truly immaculate protagonist vibes.
wtf are you talking about? He gets literally 0 content. you can save him from the pact with playing him as origin and you get 0 fking unique origin dialogue out of him. ah but when he sees his dad the narrarator says a line or two while wyll looks like he's holding a shit. Wyll sucks ass and he got 0, literal 0 original content while everyone else gets cutscenes, special items or become a god.
I actually liked him the best. He was the genuinely most heroic lawful good person he was forced into impossible situation chose to sacrifice himself save the city was the shunned by the person he cared the most about instead of being angsty or evil he dedicated the rest of his life to help people.
People seem to think that a person who always does the right thing is a boring character. Few stop to think about what happens when such a person is placed in a position where there is no right thing they can do.
I feel like the biggest issue with Wyll is way the implications of Mizora tricking him into going after Karlach are just glossed over. Wyll was convinced his pact only allowed him to be sent after people who absolutely deserve it: devils, demons, monsters, etc. So finding out that Mizora can use the exact wording of his contract to send him after an innocent like Karlach should have him questioning all the previous targets he's killed. The possibility that he's taken multiple innocent lives should wrack him with guilt and uncertainty. His entire view of himself as a noble hero should be shaken.
Knowing that half of Wyll’s story line was dropped from the game with nothing to fill in, or smooth over whatever it was we lost just makes this more frustrating.
I think the problem with Wyll is so much of his story is internal conflict. His own angst and issues with his father, the loss of body autonomy from his pact, the potential changes his body is forced through. Watching his father being mind controlled. I think he would be more popular in a novel format where we hear more of his internal monologue. VS characters like Astarion who are more vocal and have potential arcs overcoming past abuse and killing his master. Wyll just…potentially has to deal with his patron hanging around camp? It feels like maybe there was some more story cut or left unfinished there.
The thing with Wyll’s father is that when he was away in Elturel (the same city the Tiefling Refugees are from when it was sent to Avernus), Ravenguard was busy with the horrors of Avernus. He nearly died multiple times, got put into a dream like coma that showed him horrific vision, innocent lives being snuffed out by devils in the most brutal and sadistic ways, it’s perfectly understandable that he would be absolutely furious at Wyll for becoming a warlock to a devil. BG3 takes place within a year AFTER the WotC module campaign Baldur’s Gate Decent into Avernus. A lot of people forget this part when they talk about Wyll and his father’s relationship. His father is straight up traumatized from his time in Avernus. And seeing his son standing next to a devil as their warlock triggered his PTSD.
But wasn't that like 3 years prior to the events of BG3. I believe why he was in Elturgard is because the king requested his aide. That is when the Absolute and the chosen use that moment on his return back to Baldur's Gate to kidnap him when he and his troops stop at Waukeen's Rest. I may be wrong about the time before that it takes place. But it seems its a few years after Wyll was exiled.
@@02091992able it's within a year of Decent Into Avernus. The Tieflings of Elturel were in the middle of a mass migration from their original home to Baldur's Gate, it's still very much fresh in the minds of those who experienced it.
@@02091992able I believe BG3 takes place about a year after Avernus. But even if it was 3 years, as soon as he came home and saw that his son made a deal with with a devil, it’s not going to put him in a good mind set.
I like Wyll, he always tries to do the right thing & he's the most morally good person out of all of the companions despite selling his soul to a Devil.
We all know mithria is the most moral character and holds onto her principles better . Aswell as actually accepting the responsibilities of nobility unlike wyll
@@stevebear6295 1. He has no reason to be the next Duke other than his dad said he could. 2. He can embrace nobility after freeing his dad if he wants to and become the next Grand Duke 3. His whole character is that he’s the people’s hero, he’s out on the battle field protecting the sword coast, I don’t think him being Grand Duke fits his character more than being the Blade of Avernus stopping evil before it can reach home 4. I haven’t had Minthara as a companion yet but I do know that Wyll is true to his morals he does what he thinks is right and nothing more unless you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he’s wrong (like with Karlach) then he’ll literally sacrifice his soul to right his wrong
People dont mention the biggest glaring issue Wyll has when it comes to his own arc and story...its the fact he doesnt need to be present for any of it for it to be completed You can have Wyll sit at camp the entire game and you can still get his best ending by practically doing everything without him, from mizora, to florrick, to ansur, to Ravengard...there isnt a single quest or place wyll has to be present in your party to ensure they get their best ending Unlike every other companian where they need to be present in your party to ensure they experience something crucial in the game that progresses their arc or character. Gale with the book of karsus and talking to Mystra, Karlach with fighting Gortash and getting her revenge but also reality check, Laezel with the Queen of Vlaakith, Shadowheart with the gauntlet of shar the the shar cloister in Baldurs gate, Astarion against his old master Cazador...heck, even Halsin and the shadowcurse....all these characters at one point need to be in your party to complete their arcs.....whilst Wyll can just stay at camp while you do his entire questline without him...thus giving no agency or purpose to his character Heck even romancing him, you dont get ANY unique romance dialogue options to further change the outcome of his story to further be connected with Wyll romantically....theres no introduction to his father by wyll, no back and forth fighting over wyll by the player and mizora....when romancing wyll youre straight up feel youre not romancing him until the next romance cutscene.
its almost diabolical Wyll didnt get this level of detail.....you can straight up lose certain companians if you dont bring them to key areas to help their story..... Gales pursuit for the crown is more deep and personal if youre romancing him, where he does it because hes trying to prove himself worthy of being the man to have your love... Astarion wants to become the vampire ascendant so he can be a living person for you and not be tide down by his disadvantages of a vampire.... Shadowheart asks you to help her concur her inability to swim as she trusts you to help her find her new path in life and to save her parents after beign cast out by shar Karlach and you can escape to Avernus, where she does it because she would rather face the hells for another couple years if it means youre by her side Laezel learns the true value and longevity of love and compassion, turning away from her hardened attitude and becoming someone more sympathetic and kind, a far contrast to her devotion to vlaakith.... Wyll?....uh....he dances and then proposes to you out of no reason or result of you doing his questline whilst he sat at camp the entire game....
I feel the issue is that a lot of Wyll's arc depends on him being "The Blade of Frontiers" a Paladdin folk hero, defender of the weak, and treats his status as a warlock as something of secret shame. Which if you see him throwing eldritch blasts and stuff, is not the most engagging mystery. He's aight, he'd probably be the standout in a mediocre EA game, but in a game where EVERYONE else could have a novel all to themselves, he definetly feels like the weak link
I never really felt that he kept being a warlock as a secret. It's more that he can't actually talk about the circumstances of his pact because of his contract with Mizora.
I agree! This game really sets the bar high when it comes to comparisons so Wyll’s story likely isn’t as bad as people are saying, but simply don’t match up to other origin characters in their eyes.
I actually like Wyll! I feel like his Early Access version had a lot more character development, and made him more interesting. However, its always interesting with the way he is so eager to slaughter goblins and every other monster for that matter, is literally flirting with both Shadowheart and Lae'zel with him being a player (if you notice the companion dialogue), has a knack for drinking, and tries to stay morally good despite literally selling his soul, but he is not without his flaws. I mean he literally made fun of Astarion for his previous "rat diet" which was very cruel of him to do. I think there is def something hidden behind that goody two shoes exterior, but its too bad we didn't get to explore that more.
I mean... Nothing of what makes Wyll and his story underwhelming is actually addressed here. He's completely bereft of agency, he doesn't even reconsider the pact after the situation with Karlach. When the chance to twist Mizora's arm to break the pact comes up, YOU are the one who takes it. When Mizora comes with the sadistic choice between Wyll's freedom and saving his father, he doesn't even get an option to choose without the player character's input. YOU make the choice for him. He starts the story as a witless puppet, and he ends his story as a witless puppet. A well-meaning and virtuous one, but still just getting pulled along by his strings. And it's a complete waste of a character in his situation! When we see a Warlock who wants out of his pact, we wanna see them take matters into their own hands, we wanna see them at least TRY to beat their patron at their own game. Wyll could have evolved, stopped being so easy to fool... but he never does. He just gets saved by you... or he doesn't. It's disappointing, it leaves you feeling frustrated and empty at the end.
This is a much more focused video on the events that take place in act 3 that I thought sort of redeemed his character arc. I wouldn’t be opposed to doing a more overarching look at his story in the future to address what could have been done better. I think you provided many awesome points I’ll have to consider for it as well! Thanks!
i think he's one of the most likeable companions. we all know Why some people don't "like" wyll. (: you know. i know. we know. i only wish he had more autonomy in the earlier acts.
Yup. We all know, and everyone is afraid to say it, but I'm not. His camp clothes horrible. I feel the dark urge even while playing as Tav whenever I see him wearing it.
He has a charisma class when most player characters by default need it to be their main stat to get dialogue options. Seriously he probably be more popular if he wasn’t a warlock by default and the developers added maybe a fifth party slot to free up new players to use him more.
We have a limit of 4 people in our party, and so many amazing characters to choose from. Wyll feels slow to capture your attention off the bat, so it’s understandable that people go for the mysterious goth girl, angsty alien lady, and vampire twink. After playing with a mod to increase party size, I finally realized just how much fun and great of a character Wyll is… and it left me wanting more. His early access version was even more complex and interesting…
Honestly that plus they have the most useful classes, so unless you are also a rogue, cleric, or fighter there is a chance you will want the absolute powerhouse options the three provide. I feel like if Wyll was also a cleric but adjust his story and make him an unwilling cleric to an evil god and he might be used a little more
@@2g33ksgamingttv3 I think him being a warlock was a great choice. Some say he should have been a Paladin or whatever else but warlock is a very interesting class as you can ether lean into stereotypes of a man hungry for power, or lean out like Wyll as an unwilling pawn
Wyll is a great idea. The kid who wanted to be a Hero, told at 17 by a manipulative liar that only he could save his city, and only if he promised her his soul. Told he’s only killing the evil, and believes it, until he finds out he has been sent to kill someone good. Who knows how many innocents he has been tricked into killing? Told by that same manipulative liar that he has only one chance to save his father, by giving her his soul again just as he might become free. And then she takes joy in ruining his reputation and trying to kill his father if he defies her. But the writers never give him any self awareness. No introspection. No taking responsibility for his actions or choices. He doesn’t even try to free himself. His random friend (you) has to make every choice for him. He’s a man who looks strong and noble and is full of wise sounding sayings from his father. And he has barely any agency. All of this could have been interesting. But the writers couldn’t manage it.
i think a lot of that is because of how many changes he went through from EA to full release. he was entirely different personality wise, and a lot of his story was changed too. unfortunately, so much of this happened late into development, so the writers ran out of time
Wyll's the only character I've done an Origin playthrough as, and I actually had a great time playing as the Blade of Frontiers. What seems lackluster as a companion's story actually feels like a solid player character storyline. Because he doesn't have much in Acts 1 and 2, it allows the other characters to shine, and then the small events that did transpire culminate to some of the larger plot points in Act 3. His story intersects with Gortash, The Iron Throne and thusly the Steel Watch Foundry, and lastly in the meeting with Ansur. He feels like a main character, more than Tav and even more than Durge in some instances.
Karlach arguably doesn’t evolve. She stays the same, she is obviously very emotional from the get go, but she is the very same from start to finish. Wyll is someone who also is the same. There is no choices that can truly be made that cause him to forsake his values. He is a hero who still decides to stay a hero regardless of what he’s been through Just like Karlach is still Karlach despite her trauma in the hells. She still stays a good person.
@@TheLegendaryLegacy In my opinion, Wyll is rather indecisive. In the sense that the idea to break the contract was first suggested by the protagonist, the most important decision, namely whether to sign the contract for his father's sake or not, was also made by the protagonist (even without a persuasion check). It's as if he refuses to take matters into his own hands at all, but at the same time he mentions his title at every opportunity and in general clings to titles too much, both at the beginning and at the end. But I probably mean more that Wyll's character lacks zest, something for which we, as players, could consider him more alive and interesting. He lacks contradictions where they are needed, but in places where they are, it does not arouse interest, but the opposite.
I think he is best utilised as playable origin character. Then you can fill in the gaps in his somewhat lackluster presentation. Especially when you play him as shady person. Like you have this facade of "the blade" but actually you are the bastard of frontiers. You even get proper storybeats and equipment in each act.
I'm still watching the video, but I wanted to point out something in case it's not addressed. In my previous playthrough, my party ignored Mizora intensely throughout Act 3, but we went to the Iron Throne to rescue the Gondian family members. We found Ulder's body in his cell, and the journal updated to say that maybe Mizora could help us out.🤨 So after surfacing, we went off to find her, and she insisted on joining us in our camp. After an infuriating conversation and an insight check, she coyly admitted (without admitting) to killing Ulder herself. I strongly agree that Mizora has been orchestrating EVERYTHING to fuck Wyll over-- the supposed attempt to summon Tiamat, Ulder being grabbed from Waukeen's Rest and parasited (why do you think she was sniffing around Moonrise Towers and got captured herself?), Ulder being threatened constantly...Mizora, whether because she's just that petty or because Zariel directly ordered her, is determined to mess with Wyll and Ulder and to destroy at least one of them. Even if you successfully rescue Ulder, she promises she'll kill him later.
Controversial choice, but when playing as Wyll Origin, I choose for him to shortsightedly kill Karlach. Have it be an irreversible mistake that he has to live with for the rest of the campaign, while reaping the full benefits of his Pact until he can weasel out of it. Also the bit about people thinking Wyll wanting to take over Baldur's Gate wouldn't be UNtrue, but in the sense anything is better than Gortash pulling the strings. So letting Ulder die while also being "free" of his contract, all the benefits none of the chicanery, made the most sense in my opinion. Real mistakes and compromises befitting of any Warlock.
I like wyll but I hate how little the writers did with his character I would love to see wyll beong resentful towarda his father for banishong him without any consideration or beong a bit arrogant and maybe distant towards others and grow to be a more humble person towards the end or him havong to deal with imposter syndrome for relyong on powers that the hells gave him. Wyll could have the most intrestong story
I really like Wyll okay you can see he was rewritten and readded later but I still really like him Also it is always nice to have at least someone who is lawful good in your party who is doing good because he want to do good
During early access, Wyll was main character story I wanted to see, during release Wyll is still one my favorite characters. Sadly people sleep on his character story.
I never hated him you need to speak for yourself ....Wyll is phenomenal because he’s a true hero who sacrifices for others without losing his humanity. Despite his devilish pact and Mizora’s manipulations, he remains noble, resilient, and inspiring-a shining example of integrity in a dark world. The people you see making excuses why they don't like him, aren't telling you their REAL reason.
I DO NOT HATE WYLL HE’S MY THIRD FAVOURITE CHARACTER BEHIND ASTARION AND KARLACH I LOVE HIM SO MUCH HE’S MY BEST FRIEND HE’S SO SILLY I’LL DEFEND HIM WITH MY LIFE WYLL GET BEHIND ME
Wyll being a classic hero but tied to a demon is interesting and pretty much all the possible plots tied to him are entertaining. Now, he's rarely in my party because of my playstyle but that's true of Halsen too.
Wyll is my second favorite companion after Karlach lol. I would always go talk to him to get his take on things at camp cuz him and Lae'zal are very poetic-wordy people, and I enjoyed going after his dad. The giddiness I felt when I realized I could get a Karlach-Wyll ending where I helped them both was real. Wyll is just a genuinely good guy and him and Karlach are such supportive dad characters toward everyone else in the cast I love them sm.
For all my future playthroughs of BG3 I'm using a mod so I can have the full tour group, but nothing will ever top my first full playthrough's party of Karlach, Wyll, and Astarion: two genuinely good individuals - one who encourages me to lick dead spiders and one who pretends he doesn't know me - and them Astarion for the casual sass. It made the game so enjoyable.
I don’t hate him, I just find him as much of a Mary Sue as Gale… only Gale has a likeable personality and Wyll…. Well… wyll definitely has A personality
@ dude banged the god of magic and is a prodigy before level 1 lol They all kinda have Mary sue backstory. The barbarian has fought in a war in hell already and is a high ranking soldier before level 1 lol these are the type of cringe backstories that get made fun of in real table top but because the game is good I guess we are supposed to forget that Are you new?
@@johnnnysaint01 Wyll is like that because the tadpole reset his level and Gale is because the orb absorbed his magic. There’s no way in hell a goddess and a level one wizard would have any kind of interaction with each other. He even knows other extremely powerful wizards like Ellminster
Wyll was the most redundant of my party in my standard good guy playthrough, so I played him as an origin character in my second, and it was amazing, hitting all the right notes.
Wyll has the second worst writing, and he is my third favorite character. The man was all about sacfricing to do the right thing. His story could be so much more if they had a few more rewrites
I don’t think his story as a whole is bad by any means, it just feels like what was left until act 3, should’ve been sprinkled throughout the game so we were more actively engaged with his dilemma. Thanks for the comment!
I like wyll as a person just his quest didnt really speak to me other than talking him out of murdering karlach. Hell as a black dude myself I want to see more characters like wyll whi have their own story and not a reskin of another character
I think part of it is because people played the alpha and wyll alpha was one of my favourite characters. He was still heroic at heart but way more troubled, he wasnt some prince (ravenguard is basically king of baldurs gate) and conflicted.
Wyll was instantly my favorite character introduced! He made me fall in love with the Warlock class too!! Currently doing a Wyll origin playthrough with my girlfriend and he feels like such a main character with relevance in every act ! 😊
One thing I love about this game is how different people's path to reach a place is on each essay I come across from mine. I went to the Iron Throne mainly to save the Gondians XD
It's hard to work Wyll into the party since you only have four people to your party. Unless you respec, Shadowheart is the party cleric, Gale/Astarion are your damage dealers, and Lae'zel is your tank or flex damage dealer. Your Tav fills out the fourth as damage dealer or tank. If you play as origin Wyll, you can use a good eldritch blast build to make him a DD or flex tank. Props to Astarion but I swapped him out for Wyll with a good blast build and that really worked out quite well. I had better crowd control and debuffs with him. As far as his story, yes, his story is much simpler than some of the other characters, but so is Halsin and he's one of my favorites. Jaheira and Minsc don't get much screen time either but find their ways to shine.
The difference is that Jaheira has some rough edges, which are part of her appeal - Wyll does not. Minsc is a one-note character, too, but in contrast to Wyll, he never pretends to be anything more. Minsc is perfectly happy just talking about Boo and buttkicking all the time. Wyll, in contrast, often comes off as self-righteous and pretentious.
He actually was to have a more expansive story than what we were currently given. Most of wylls story was scrapped in the final production of the game.
Weirdly, Wyll DOES have a moment where he can pick something for himself, but it is AFTER defeating Ansur. He can choose to be the next Duke of BG or the Blade of Avernus. If his dad is dead but you haven’t talked to Mizora until after finding out his fate, the pact scene takes on a different tone; instead of the promise of finding out his father’s location, the promise becomes “stay in the pact forever and I will revive your father”. Also, I ship Wyll with Karlach. My second run ever in the game was as origin Wyll, and he and Karlach went to Avernus together as a couple in the end.
I don't hate Wyll, and the language at the beginning of this video feels beyond extra. Anyone who HATES Wyll probably need to chill out as he does not really do anything egregious throughout the game. He is 100% the most boring of the companions, but he isn't loathsome by any measure. I wish Larian had done more with him, and that is the only negative feeling I have toward his character. Maybe by virtue of being the weakest, that attracts hate, but that feels like a hollow reason to hate an otherwise pretty neutral character.
I like Wyll. I want to do a Wyll romance soon...if I can get away from a certain dark haired wizard long enough. But to be honest, even though I never got to experience EA, I was sorely disappointed that Wyll couldn't decide with Mizora's new pact. I, as a player, definitely, did *NOT* want to decide for Wyll, in that crucial moment in his life. The whole situation should have been left up to him, not the player.
Personally I think Wyll is great…as an origin character playthru. He’s a natural choice for leader/faceman, esp in “good guy” runs. I build him as a swords bardlock, SAD build is easy, potent robes and birthright are pimp-glorious. For heroic arc, he saves his dad but declines his title, romances his former mark Karlach and they ride off into the sunset of Avernus. I find it a satisfying arc.
I feel lore wise it makes most sense to play wyll as tav and romance karlach: born leader, willing to sacrifice his own good for the common good. Got my Golden Dice by playing witcher Wyll until the pact was broken and then respecing to Paladin Wyll.
Also, I really wish the devs would allow you to take advantage of more loopholes in Wyll's contract. Like for starters, he should be allowed to kill Karlach and we revive her which would technically fulfill his promise, as he did kill her. Also, I feel that it would make sense to be able to threaten Mizora to tell Zariel that M had set her warlock on Z's favorite pet. This sounds like it wouldn't make sense due to the fact that Z herself sent those "Paladins of Tyr," but that was after K had escaped Avernus. Wyll was sent after her while she was still there. Obviously, this was because Mizora was jealous that K was Zariel's favorite, and you should be able to use that to get something out of M. Another loophole is that when you free her from the Mind Flayer Colony, she makes no mention that she will require payment to end the contract. The closest thing to that is that she says if we free her, she will end the contract. So, if payment is needed, her life was the payment. The last loophole that I wish you could take advantage of is that Mizora's offer in act 3 was to either give Wyll's soul for promised safety of Ulder or don't. She made no clear statement or writing that she would claim the soul of Ulder if Wyll denied her. I feel any two-bit lawyer could poke holes all over the place in her dealings. What I'm trying to say here is that she committed contract fraud... Allegedly
He isn’t a bad character but he is just not really great or needed game play wise. The elf girl and vampire are auto includes if you want to play the game properly(for a new player who is not experienced enough to experiment for whatever reason). Then you have basically one party slot left outside the player character. Wyll got shafted with a charisma class who at best is a worst range option than gale and is not a monster like karlack. He is just a good hybrid of range and damage if you don’t know how to use him. He really does suffer from every one else being that good of a character and the fact they really should have focused on making the party numbers bigger to experience the game more.
Him: commensing an entire city-spanning investigation to figure out where did the duke go Me: iboyfing Gortash's invitation in favour of dismantling Steelwatcher Foundry and going into underwater prison to remove steelwatchers as enemies, coming back to Gortash's caboodle to find a room full of dead people, no Ravenguard and Gortash himself hiding on a roof I don't know what happened there, but Mizora then said that the choice was either to resurrect Duke or free Wyll and there's no way i will resurrect something that could be a devil's puppet instead of freeing my boy.
I messed up and freed Ravenguard before continuing Wyll's story line, breaking the contract inadvertently. All I wanted to do was fuck with Gortash, man.
I really think wyll should've been givien a character moment when he sees karlachs memories of escaping avernus, where he starts to think of maybe other devils he hunted were also innocent and mizora lied to him the whole time.
I originally found the Wyll hate insane. But as I interacted with BG3 fans more and more, it became painfully clear to me. People hate Wyll because he starts as a heroic and selfless person and he never really changes. People are obsessed with the more evil characters like Asterion and Minthara. But I was immediately pulled towards Wyll when I met him. Super heroic, selfless, honorable and noble. He takes his demonification like a champ because it means he did kill an innocent soul. And the "Blade of Avernus" route is honestly incredible. He spends the entire game talking about how he loves his father despite being banished by him. So him staying in the contract to save his father felt like the most in character decision for him. Why would he let his father die just to get out of his contract? Utter nonsense. And, again, he takes becoming the Blade of Avernus like a champ. His dad is safe, Baldur's Gate will be safe. Of course he'd take that deal. Wyll is the person to make the sacrifice play. I've heard a lot about how characters without arcs are "boring". But what is interesting about static characters is how their morals are put to the test in difficult situations. Wyll loses his family, his home, and even his reputation in the name of saving the world and the people he loves. And he keeps his head held high the entire time. Wyll is fantastic. People need to just stop being edgelords.
Hes vanilla but he's such a bro. Says really heroic shit and is pretty much a catalyst for interaction. Im gonna have him romance laezel or karlach. He's also very talkative (at least in my runs) which opens up alot of dialogue banter that I adore.
Wyll was my second favorite character. my first playthrough of the game, I played blind, looking at social media as little as possible about it. when I learned everyone hated wyll, I was very confused. i just didn't get it
Iron Throne: One of the highlights of Act 3 I do not understand, why some say, Act 3 would be a letdown. The Iron Thone and other great fights PROVE the opposite. The Iron Throne is such a well designed fight puzzle (save all captives), where you are forced to wrap your head around all the mechanics the game has to offer.
Editing because the beginning sounded pretentious and potentially rude: So if I am correct, you are a bit confused on Wyll's timeline. The "Tiamat incident" was not during Elturel's fall, but instead it was during a not so eventful journey of the Duke to Elturel years ago. We know this because it was when Ulder returned from his journey that he banished Wyll, and Ulder was kidnapped by the Absolute during his journey to return from Elturel after the events of Descent into Avernus. Also, the timeline as you laid it out leaves no time for Wyll to become the legend, The Blade of Frontiers. He has been adventuring for quite some time before the events of the game. For further evidence, I believe Wyll mentions that he was 18 when he was banished, but he certainly does not look like an 18/19 year old to me. Also, he didn't stop his chase of Karlach at the druid's grove. He had made his way into Avernus and was literally hunting her down when the Nautiloid crashed through. She took her chance and hopped aboard, and Wyll followed suit (hence how they both got their tadpoles). They survived the crash with methods of their own and tried making their way towards the next objective. She ran into some servants of Zariel, and he found some displaced Tieflings in need of protection.
I like Wyll, but there are problems. 1) He's a passive character - things are just happening to him without his influence on it. 2) Show don't tell principle - Wyll is telling you a lot of things from his past, everything that made Wyll the guy he is, he tells you. You don't get to discover or experience it organically. Karlach has also a lot of these, but you get to experience her overwhelming rage and sadness, whereas Wyll's emotional range is narrow. (This is not the actor issue) 3) Mizora sucks, she's just a quest giver 4) Daddy Duke does not impress me either, he does not feel like a character, more like a plot device. 5) Worst problem with Wyll, is that he doesn't have an arc. From the beginning to the end, he is a morally virtuous, selfless man, and he learn nothing new. Conclusion: He'd benefit from a different plot, that would teach him how to get get himself out of co-dependent relationship with the devil, learn how to trust player, and for the endgame, he should be presented a choice between devil or player to help him save his father, instead of choice between life or death for someone the player does not really care about.
Iron Throne is easy AF, just buy/steal/trade any scrolls of haste on your way. Toss a potion of invis on the Duke, just let the spiders wander around helplessly. Save all the Gondians. Done.
After watching this I would like to bring up one more point, Wyll should have been a hexblade warlock mechanically. This would help with his blade of Frontiers persona. That said Hasbro didn't put hexblade in the game at launch so Wyll couldn't be a hexblade.
While Wyll certainly didn't receive nor does he continue to receive the same amount of attention as other characters (like Asatrion), there is nothing wrong with his character. His story is about being a good man who has to make impossible choices and deciding how important are the ideals he tries to abide and live by. From the choice to make a deal with a devil in order to save his home, hunting and potentially killing an innocent person who was a victim of the devils much like him to deciding to finally be free of his pact and save his own soul or save the lives of his father and other innocents but doom his soul and forever be leashed by the devils. Wyll's story puts attaches him not just to the main story but connects him to other characters such as Karlach makes their bond a strong one without need of input from the player. That's good storytelling. Meanwhile you have characters like Astarion whose personal has absolutely NOTHING to with the main plot, is a complete distraction from said plot and has no relevance to the grander narrative. So no, I don't hate Wyll, nor do I think his character is boring. Its far easier to make a morally grey character who's motives are fluid. I find it far more interesting to see how one handles a morally good character. Edginess doesn't equate good storytelling.
Wyll’s biggest problem is Mizora is a scene stealer. She is funny, seductive and scheming and it leaves the player hoping an interaction with Wyll means another appearance by Mizora. the art for the game rarely depicts Wyll alone and Mizora is often there making them seem inseparable and that’s he’s not a person without her. Even when he does get out of the contract it doesn’t come across as a victory but a bump in the road for Mizora and she’ll eventually be back in control.
I prefer Wyll as the main character. I didn't much like him as a companion because I think he was backseated by writers. On my second play through I figured I use him since I didn't feel like I'd be missing much from the dialogue and interaction perspective. It turned out to be a fun playthough and I appreciate Wyll more by playing as him.
Honestly, rescuing the Duke is where I stop playing the game. I found the Throne blind wandering through Baldur's Gate. By the time i got there, most of my spell slots were drained and after multiple attempts to save everyone and failing, I decided to do a long rest and then Mizora showed up about Wyll's pact, i got frustrated because i was literally right there. Also not knowing if Gortash would make my travel through the City difficult, I put the game down.
Didn't hear his origin really, I'm new to dnd put just heard podcasts and wanted to play a warlock. I enjoyed everything really, how he deals with devils and his father who was a mystery to me but everything slowly unfolded
I disliked him untill I realized how young he is. I mean this guy is in his early twenties and he's already been through so much and still he's trying his best to be a good person
It is not about disliking him, his storyline isn't very interesting. His character isn't even much needed to progress, just like Gale. They are both easy to please and approval can reach 100 without effort and their interaction is not alluring. Wyll "well met ", Gale "what can I do for u". Depending on your choice of class and the character you play, you might need them but warlock isn't really needed because it's not here nor there especially if you are a magic character. I don't even have use for cleric either and I bring SH purely for her quests. Most characters I bring purely bc of their quests but I would rather not bring a class that clashes with my own.
I'd like to add my reason to hate Will: I was doing a honor mode run (With task manager) and got caught stealing from Withers by Scratch who was yet not my familiar. A fight started from it with Lae'zel joining him and Will joined on my side. Not under my control mind you. I very sadly turned on non-lethal attacks and planed to simply make Scratch incapacitated so he might not hate me and the same with Lae'zel. I got Scratch on 2 hp and Will decided it was a good idea TO ELDRITCH BLAST THE DOG KILLING HIM! Tldr: That mf Will killed my dog!!
Lmao. I romanced Wyll first! I like him, when I’m doing a good guy run. There are times when he and Karlach interrupt my evil fun, and he’s one of the three companions I will sometimes skip recruiting (along with Karlach and sometimes Lae’zel or Gale). Honestly, only Astarion is safe.
Wyll's biggest failure, in my opinion, is that he's a flat character that doesn't change the people around him at all. It's why he's the best origin character to play the game as, in my opinion. Another example of a flat character is "Goku" from DBZ. People meme on him letting people go and letting bad guys go and then they'd become good guys but that's... the whole point of a flat character. The best thing I think would have happened to show his flat character is Mizora. She should have changed because of Wyll's selfless actions, letting him and his father go because of how he acted in spite of how she treated him. Something along those lines at least.
That's why I think along with Gale or Shadowheart, he is an ideal character to play as an origin (despite hating him) because he has a lot of inner conflict.
I'll be honest, I'm not fond of Wyll because I felt that the release version was aggressively bland in comparison to the EA version. I don't hate him, I just wish he had a bit more of what he lost in the rewrite. Now I admit, part of the problem is probably because they not only had to change actors, not saying either is better but just that the change made the time crunch worse, but that they had to do so over a much shorter time frame. People like Neil Newbon and Jennifer English had years to refine their characters and performances, and that was a luxury Theo Solomon just wasn't afforded.
I don't trust anyone who says they actually hate Wyll.
Find him "boring" sure. Lots of people don't like "paragon" type characters (like Superman) unless they're edgy (like Batman).
That said, Wyll definitely plays the best as the origin player character. Warlock enjoyers in DnD LOVE their patron actually showing up as part of their story instead of an ignored detail and Mizora plays the roll *perfectly*. His two storylines (dealing with Mizora and trying to find/save his dad) weave into the main story just perfectly throughout without trying to overshadow it and even his act 3 missions are about saving the city instead of himself. Truly immaculate protagonist vibes.
dark urge better as origin
Hate is a strong word, but I often dislike him. Though I think that’s more because of the execution than the concept of his character.
wtf are you talking about?
He gets literally 0 content. you can save him from the pact with playing him as origin and you get 0 fking unique origin dialogue out of him.
ah but when he sees his dad the narrarator says a line or two while wyll looks like he's holding a shit.
Wyll sucks ass and he got 0, literal 0 original content while everyone else gets cutscenes, special items or become a god.
Just too vanilla...no hate, but daddy issues plot is boring.
I hate him. I always kill him in every playthrough
I actually liked him the best. He was the genuinely most heroic lawful good person he was forced into impossible situation chose to sacrifice himself save the city was the shunned by the person he cared the most about instead of being angsty or evil he dedicated the rest of his life to help people.
A tride and true fantasy hero!
THANK YOU!
Finally someone who gets it!
Agreed. And he’s also very young, do people forget he’s 24?
@@jbear3478 And as far as I remember, he was only 17 years old when he signed the pact.
People seem to think that a person who always does the right thing is a boring character. Few stop to think about what happens when such a person is placed in a position where there is no right thing they can do.
I feel like the biggest issue with Wyll is way the implications of Mizora tricking him into going after Karlach are just glossed over.
Wyll was convinced his pact only allowed him to be sent after people who absolutely deserve it: devils, demons, monsters, etc. So finding out that Mizora can use the exact wording of his contract to send him after an innocent like Karlach should have him questioning all the previous targets he's killed. The possibility that he's taken multiple innocent lives should wrack him with guilt and uncertainty. His entire view of himself as a noble hero should be shaken.
Deep u right asfk
Knowing that half of Wyll’s story line was dropped from the game with nothing to fill in, or smooth over whatever it was we lost just makes this more frustrating.
I think the problem with Wyll is so much of his story is internal conflict. His own angst and issues with his father, the loss of body autonomy from his pact, the potential changes his body is forced through. Watching his father being mind controlled.
I think he would be more popular in a novel format where we hear more of his internal monologue.
VS characters like Astarion who are more vocal and have potential arcs overcoming past abuse and killing his master. Wyll just…potentially has to deal with his patron hanging around camp? It feels like maybe there was some more story cut or left unfinished there.
The thing with Wyll’s father is that when he was away in Elturel (the same city the Tiefling Refugees are from when it was sent to Avernus), Ravenguard was busy with the horrors of Avernus. He nearly died multiple times, got put into a dream like coma that showed him horrific vision, innocent lives being snuffed out by devils in the most brutal and sadistic ways, it’s perfectly understandable that he would be absolutely furious at Wyll for becoming a warlock to a devil.
BG3 takes place within a year AFTER the WotC module campaign Baldur’s Gate Decent into Avernus. A lot of people forget this part when they talk about Wyll and his father’s relationship. His father is straight up traumatized from his time in Avernus. And seeing his son standing next to a devil as their warlock triggered his PTSD.
Well put! I didn’t fully consider his perspective on it since I was probably too tilted to do so after he mouthed us off when we saved him 🤣
But wasn't that like 3 years prior to the events of BG3. I believe why he was in Elturgard is because the king requested his aide. That is when the Absolute and the chosen use that moment on his return back to Baldur's Gate to kidnap him when he and his troops stop at Waukeen's Rest. I may be wrong about the time before that it takes place. But it seems its a few years after Wyll was exiled.
@@02091992able it's within a year of Decent Into Avernus. The Tieflings of Elturel were in the middle of a mass migration from their original home to Baldur's Gate, it's still very much fresh in the minds of those who experienced it.
@@02091992able I believe BG3 takes place about a year after Avernus. But even if it was 3 years, as soon as he came home and saw that his son made a deal with with a devil, it’s not going to put him in a good mind set.
Wyll has always been a real one to me, since i started using him more
I like Wyll, he always tries to do the right thing & he's the most morally good person out of all of the companions despite selling his soul to a Devil.
A relatively sweet devil obsessed with him, fortunately
We all know mithria is the most moral character and holds onto her principles better . Aswell as actually accepting the responsibilities of nobility unlike wyll
@@stevebear6295
1. He has no reason to be the next Duke other than his dad said he could.
2. He can embrace nobility after freeing his dad if he wants to and become the next Grand Duke
3. His whole character is that he’s the people’s hero, he’s out on the battle field protecting the sword coast, I don’t think him being Grand Duke fits his character more than being the Blade of Avernus stopping evil before it can reach home
4. I haven’t had Minthara as a companion yet but I do know that Wyll is true to his morals he does what he thinks is right and nothing more unless you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he’s wrong (like with Karlach) then he’ll literally sacrifice his soul to right his wrong
@07turtleboy88 >haven't had x still comes to mansplane
@@jbear3478 I HATE HER
People dont mention the biggest glaring issue Wyll has when it comes to his own arc and story...its the fact he doesnt need to be present for any of it for it to be completed
You can have Wyll sit at camp the entire game and you can still get his best ending by practically doing everything without him, from mizora, to florrick, to ansur, to Ravengard...there isnt a single quest or place wyll has to be present in your party to ensure they get their best ending
Unlike every other companian where they need to be present in your party to ensure they experience something crucial in the game that progresses their arc or character. Gale with the book of karsus and talking to Mystra, Karlach with fighting Gortash and getting her revenge but also reality check, Laezel with the Queen of Vlaakith, Shadowheart with the gauntlet of shar the the shar cloister in Baldurs gate, Astarion against his old master Cazador...heck, even Halsin and the shadowcurse....all these characters at one point need to be in your party to complete their arcs.....whilst Wyll can just stay at camp while you do his entire questline without him...thus giving no agency or purpose to his character
Heck even romancing him, you dont get ANY unique romance dialogue options to further change the outcome of his story to further be connected with Wyll romantically....theres no introduction to his father by wyll, no back and forth fighting over wyll by the player and mizora....when romancing wyll youre straight up feel youre not romancing him until the next romance cutscene.
its almost diabolical Wyll didnt get this level of detail.....you can straight up lose certain companians if you dont bring them to key areas to help their story.....
Gales pursuit for the crown is more deep and personal if youre romancing him, where he does it because hes trying to prove himself worthy of being the man to have your love...
Astarion wants to become the vampire ascendant so he can be a living person for you and not be tide down by his disadvantages of a vampire....
Shadowheart asks you to help her concur her inability to swim as she trusts you to help her find her new path in life and to save her parents after beign cast out by shar
Karlach and you can escape to Avernus, where she does it because she would rather face the hells for another couple years if it means youre by her side
Laezel learns the true value and longevity of love and compassion, turning away from her hardened attitude and becoming someone more sympathetic and kind, a far contrast to her devotion to vlaakith....
Wyll?....uh....he dances and then proposes to you out of no reason or result of you doing his questline whilst he sat at camp the entire game....
I didn't hate wyll, i felt that he needed to have an arc about his stubborn actions but in the end he was just ok.
I feel the issue is that a lot of Wyll's arc depends on him being "The Blade of Frontiers" a Paladdin folk hero, defender of the weak, and treats his status as a warlock as something of secret shame. Which if you see him throwing eldritch blasts and stuff, is not the most engagging mystery. He's aight, he'd probably be the standout in a mediocre EA game, but in a game where EVERYONE else could have a novel all to themselves, he definetly feels like the weak link
I never really felt that he kept being a warlock as a secret. It's more that he can't actually talk about the circumstances of his pact because of his contract with Mizora.
I agree! This game really sets the bar high when it comes to comparisons so Wyll’s story likely isn’t as bad as people are saying, but simply don’t match up to other origin characters in their eyes.
I wish they stuck with early access wyll
Stop. If Wyll had Astorians origin, you would STILL conjure some BS excuse why you don't like him.
@@The07OneFacts. That's why I avoid the community like the plague.
Wyll is better as the main character vs being a companion. Main protag energy but he’s sidelined by tav / dark urge
I actually like Wyll! I feel like his Early Access version had a lot more character development, and made him more interesting. However, its always interesting with the way he is so eager to slaughter goblins and every other monster for that matter, is literally flirting with both Shadowheart and Lae'zel with him being a player (if you notice the companion dialogue), has a knack for drinking, and tries to stay morally good despite literally selling his soul, but he is not without his flaws. I mean he literally made fun of Astarion for his previous "rat diet" which was very cruel of him to do. I think there is def something hidden behind that goody two shoes exterior, but its too bad we didn't get to explore that more.
I mean... Nothing of what makes Wyll and his story underwhelming is actually addressed here. He's completely bereft of agency, he doesn't even reconsider the pact after the situation with Karlach. When the chance to twist Mizora's arm to break the pact comes up, YOU are the one who takes it. When Mizora comes with the sadistic choice between Wyll's freedom and saving his father, he doesn't even get an option to choose without the player character's input. YOU make the choice for him.
He starts the story as a witless puppet, and he ends his story as a witless puppet. A well-meaning and virtuous one, but still just getting pulled along by his strings. And it's a complete waste of a character in his situation! When we see a Warlock who wants out of his pact, we wanna see them take matters into their own hands, we wanna see them at least TRY to beat their patron at their own game. Wyll could have evolved, stopped being so easy to fool... but he never does. He just gets saved by you... or he doesn't. It's disappointing, it leaves you feeling frustrated and empty at the end.
Wow you laid out perfectly.
This is a much more focused video on the events that take place in act 3 that I thought sort of redeemed his character arc.
I wouldn’t be opposed to doing a more overarching look at his story in the future to address what could have been done better. I think you provided many awesome points I’ll have to consider for it as well! Thanks!
THANK YOU!!!! I was so frustrated watching this video and he doesn't bring any of this up.
i think he's one of the most likeable companions. we all know Why some people don't "like" wyll. (: you know. i know. we know. i only wish he had more autonomy in the earlier acts.
Yup. We all know, and everyone is afraid to say it, but I'm not. His camp clothes horrible. I feel the dark urge even while playing as Tav whenever I see him wearing it.
Very brave very brave
He has a charisma class when most player characters by default need it to be their main stat to get dialogue options.
Seriously he probably be more popular if he wasn’t a warlock by default and the developers added maybe a fifth party slot to free up new players to use him more.
We have a limit of 4 people in our party, and so many amazing characters to choose from. Wyll feels slow to capture your attention off the bat, so it’s understandable that people go for the mysterious goth girl, angsty alien lady, and vampire twink.
After playing with a mod to increase party size, I finally realized just how much fun and great of a character Wyll is… and it left me wanting more. His early access version was even more complex and interesting…
Honestly that plus they have the most useful classes, so unless you are also a rogue, cleric, or fighter there is a chance you will want the absolute powerhouse options the three provide. I feel like if Wyll was also a cleric but adjust his story and make him an unwilling cleric to an evil god and he might be used a little more
Increasing my party size made me tolerate Gale a lot more, I almost like him now. Wyl didn't change for me.
@@2g33ksgamingttv3 I think him being a warlock was a great choice. Some say he should have been a Paladin or whatever else but warlock is a very interesting class as you can ether lean into stereotypes of a man hungry for power, or lean out like Wyll as an unwilling pawn
Wyll is a great idea. The kid who wanted to be a Hero, told at 17 by a manipulative liar that only he could save his city, and only if he promised her his soul. Told he’s only killing the evil, and believes it, until he finds out he has been sent to kill someone good. Who knows how many innocents he has been tricked into killing? Told by that same manipulative liar that he has only one chance to save his father, by giving her his soul again just as he might become free. And then she takes joy in ruining his reputation and trying to kill his father if he defies her.
But the writers never give him any self awareness. No introspection. No taking responsibility for his actions or choices. He doesn’t even try to free himself. His random friend (you) has to make every choice for him.
He’s a man who looks strong and noble and is full of wise sounding sayings from his father. And he has barely any agency.
All of this could have been interesting. But the writers couldn’t manage it.
Well said
i think a lot of that is because of how many changes he went through from EA to full release. he was entirely different personality wise, and a lot of his story was changed too. unfortunately, so much of this happened late into development, so the writers ran out of time
Wyll's the only character I've done an Origin playthrough as, and I actually had a great time playing as the Blade of Frontiers. What seems lackluster as a companion's story actually feels like a solid player character storyline. Because he doesn't have much in Acts 1 and 2, it allows the other characters to shine, and then the small events that did transpire culminate to some of the larger plot points in Act 3. His story intersects with Gortash, The Iron Throne and thusly the Steel Watch Foundry, and lastly in the meeting with Ansur. He feels like a main character, more than Tav and even more than Durge in some instances.
Wyll doesn’t evolve as a character, and feels like any morally grey traits were sanitized out of him.
Karlach arguably doesn’t evolve. She stays the same, she is obviously very emotional from the get go, but she is the very same from start to finish.
Wyll is someone who also is the same. There is no choices that can truly be made that cause him to forsake his values. He is a hero who still decides to stay a hero regardless of what he’s been through
Just like Karlach is still Karlach despite her trauma in the hells. She still stays a good person.
@@TheLegendaryLegacy This might be true if Karlach needed any character development at all. Wyll has a lot of things he could change about himself.
@@trashcanandsocanyoucare to give an example?
@@TheLegendaryLegacy In my opinion, Wyll is rather indecisive. In the sense that the idea to break the contract was first suggested by the protagonist, the most important decision, namely whether to sign the contract for his father's sake or not, was also made by the protagonist (even without a persuasion check). It's as if he refuses to take matters into his own hands at all, but at the same time he mentions his title at every opportunity and in general clings to titles too much, both at the beginning and at the end. But I probably mean more that Wyll's character lacks zest, something for which we, as players, could consider him more alive and interesting. He lacks contradictions where they are needed, but in places where they are, it does not arouse interest, but the opposite.
I think he is best utilised as playable origin character. Then you can fill in the gaps in his somewhat lackluster presentation. Especially when you play him as shady person. Like you have this facade of "the blade" but actually you are the bastard of frontiers. You even get proper storybeats and equipment in each act.
This is what I'm doing currently
I'm still watching the video, but I wanted to point out something in case it's not addressed. In my previous playthrough, my party ignored Mizora intensely throughout Act 3, but we went to the Iron Throne to rescue the Gondian family members. We found Ulder's body in his cell, and the journal updated to say that maybe Mizora could help us out.🤨 So after surfacing, we went off to find her, and she insisted on joining us in our camp. After an infuriating conversation and an insight check, she coyly admitted (without admitting) to killing Ulder herself.
I strongly agree that Mizora has been orchestrating EVERYTHING to fuck Wyll over-- the supposed attempt to summon Tiamat, Ulder being grabbed from Waukeen's Rest and parasited (why do you think she was sniffing around Moonrise Towers and got captured herself?), Ulder being threatened constantly...Mizora, whether because she's just that petty or because Zariel directly ordered her, is determined to mess with Wyll and Ulder and to destroy at least one of them. Even if you successfully rescue Ulder, she promises she'll kill him later.
I never hated Wyll. He is one of my favourite companions, along with Halsin, karlach and Gale.
Controversial choice, but when playing as Wyll Origin, I choose for him to shortsightedly kill Karlach. Have it be an irreversible mistake that he has to live with for the rest of the campaign, while reaping the full benefits of his Pact until he can weasel out of it. Also the bit about people thinking Wyll wanting to take over Baldur's Gate wouldn't be UNtrue, but in the sense anything is better than Gortash pulling the strings. So letting Ulder die while also being "free" of his contract, all the benefits none of the chicanery, made the most sense in my opinion. Real mistakes and compromises befitting of any Warlock.
I like wyll but I hate how little the writers did with his character I would love to see wyll beong resentful towarda his father for banishong him without any consideration or beong a bit arrogant and maybe distant towards others and grow to be a more humble person towards the end or him havong to deal with imposter syndrome for relyong on powers that the hells gave him. Wyll could have the most intrestong story
I love wyll even with larian being a bit disappointing with his writing
I really like Wyll okay you can see he was rewritten and readded later but I still really like him
Also it is always nice to have at least someone who is lawful good in your party who is doing good because he want to do good
During early access, Wyll was main character story I wanted to see, during release Wyll is still one my favorite characters. Sadly people sleep on his character story.
My husband, friend and I all agree we would find his character more interesting if they kept his early access personality.
I never hated him you need to speak for yourself ....Wyll is phenomenal because he’s a true hero who sacrifices for others without losing his humanity. Despite his devilish pact and Mizora’s manipulations, he remains noble, resilient, and inspiring-a shining example of integrity in a dark world. The people you see making excuses why they don't like him, aren't telling you their REAL reason.
He's boring and they didn't give him any edginess or character growth like the other characters experience.
"You don't like the same character I do. You must not be a good person."
That's you. That's essentially what you just said.
I DO NOT HATE WYLL HE’S MY THIRD FAVOURITE CHARACTER BEHIND ASTARION AND KARLACH I LOVE HIM SO MUCH HE’S MY BEST FRIEND HE’S SO SILLY I’LL DEFEND HIM WITH MY LIFE WYLL GET BEHIND ME
People don't like the Iron Throne? The Iron Throne is my favorite quest in the entire game!
Same!
I like the Iron Throne as well! There are much worse quests, I think (Temple of Shar comes to mind...)
He used to be so much more interesting in Early Access
Wyll being a classic hero but tied to a demon is interesting and pretty much all the possible plots tied to him are entertaining. Now, he's rarely in my party because of my playstyle but that's true of Halsen too.
Hot take: Wyll is everything Gale stans think Gale is and Wyll's story is everything Gale stans think Gale's relationship with Mystara is.
Hot take: Wyll and Mizora are a healthier dynamic than Gale and Mystra
Wyll is my second favorite companion after Karlach lol. I would always go talk to him to get his take on things at camp cuz him and Lae'zal are very poetic-wordy people, and I enjoyed going after his dad. The giddiness I felt when I realized I could get a Karlach-Wyll ending where I helped them both was real. Wyll is just a genuinely good guy and him and Karlach are such supportive dad characters toward everyone else in the cast I love them sm.
For all my future playthroughs of BG3 I'm using a mod so I can have the full tour group, but nothing will ever top my first full playthrough's party of Karlach, Wyll, and Astarion: two genuinely good individuals - one who encourages me to lick dead spiders and one who pretends he doesn't know me - and them Astarion for the casual sass. It made the game so enjoyable.
I don’t hate him, I just find him as much of a Mary Sue as Gale… only Gale has a likeable personality and Wyll…. Well… wyll definitely has A personality
I don't think you know what a Mary Sue is if you think Gale is one.
@ dude banged the god of magic and is a prodigy before level 1 lol
They all kinda have Mary sue backstory. The barbarian has fought in a war in hell already and is a high ranking soldier before level 1 lol these are the type of cringe backstories that get made fun of in real table top but because the game is good I guess we are supposed to forget that
Are you new?
@@johnnnysaint01Basement geek found
@@Takemura77 I get you are very sensitive but I am no geek, I am however Greek.
@@johnnnysaint01 Wyll is like that because the tadpole reset his level and Gale is because the orb absorbed his magic. There’s no way in hell a goddess and a level one wizard would have any kind of interaction with each other. He even knows other extremely powerful wizards like Ellminster
Wyll was the most redundant of my party in my standard good guy playthrough, so I played him as an origin character in my second, and it was amazing, hitting all the right notes.
Wyll has the second worst writing, and he is my third favorite character.
The man was all about sacfricing to do the right thing.
His story could be so much more if they had a few more rewrites
I don’t think his story as a whole is bad by any means, it just feels like what was left until act 3, should’ve been sprinkled throughout the game so we were more actively engaged with his dilemma. Thanks for the comment!
I like wyll as a person just his quest didnt really speak to me other than talking him out of murdering karlach. Hell as a black dude myself I want to see more characters like wyll whi have their own story and not a reskin of another character
Wyll could have an entire game based on his life. It would have been an amazing DLC idea.
But I don’t hate Wyll. I actually love him.
... People hate Wyll? What psychopath actually hates Wyll?
People who align with the "Evil" section of the morality chart, lol.
I think part of it is because people played the alpha and wyll alpha was one of my favourite characters. He was still heroic at heart but way more troubled, he wasnt some prince (ravenguard is basically king of baldurs gate) and conflicted.
His introduction made me roll my eyes in a way as I’ve seen the character archetype many times but he definitely grew on me around act 2
Wyll was instantly my favorite character introduced! He made me fall in love with the Warlock class too!!
Currently doing a Wyll origin playthrough with my girlfriend and he feels like such a main character with relevance in every act ! 😊
One thing I love about this game is how different people's path to reach a place is on each essay I come across from mine. I went to the Iron Throne mainly to save the Gondians XD
It's hard to work Wyll into the party since you only have four people to your party. Unless you respec, Shadowheart is the party cleric, Gale/Astarion are your damage dealers, and Lae'zel is your tank or flex damage dealer. Your Tav fills out the fourth as damage dealer or tank. If you play as origin Wyll, you can use a good eldritch blast build to make him a DD or flex tank. Props to Astarion but I swapped him out for Wyll with a good blast build and that really worked out quite well. I had better crowd control and debuffs with him. As far as his story, yes, his story is much simpler than some of the other characters, but so is Halsin and he's one of my favorites. Jaheira and Minsc don't get much screen time either but find their ways to shine.
The difference is that Jaheira has some rough edges, which are part of her appeal - Wyll does not. Minsc is a one-note character, too, but in contrast to Wyll, he never pretends to be anything more. Minsc is perfectly happy just talking about Boo and buttkicking all the time. Wyll, in contrast, often comes off as self-righteous and pretentious.
He is my favourite
He actually was to have a more expansive story than what we were currently given. Most of wylls story was scrapped in the final production of the game.
Weirdly, Wyll DOES have a moment where he can pick something for himself, but it is AFTER defeating Ansur. He can choose to be the next Duke of BG or the Blade of Avernus. If his dad is dead but you haven’t talked to Mizora until after finding out his fate, the pact scene takes on a different tone; instead of the promise of finding out his father’s location, the promise becomes “stay in the pact forever and I will revive your father”. Also, I ship Wyll with Karlach. My second run ever in the game was as origin Wyll, and he and Karlach went to Avernus together as a couple in the end.
Your reaction to the duke was the same I had😭😭
I don't hate Wyll, and the language at the beginning of this video feels beyond extra. Anyone who HATES Wyll probably need to chill out as he does not really do anything egregious throughout the game.
He is 100% the most boring of the companions, but he isn't loathsome by any measure. I wish Larian had done more with him, and that is the only negative feeling I have toward his character. Maybe by virtue of being the weakest, that attracts hate, but that feels like a hollow reason to hate an otherwise pretty neutral character.
It's not the contract that gets you it's the terms and conditions aka fine print that gets you.
I like Wyll. I want to do a Wyll romance soon...if I can get away from a certain dark haired wizard long enough.
But to be honest, even though I never got to experience EA, I was sorely disappointed that Wyll couldn't decide with Mizora's new pact. I, as a player, definitely, did *NOT* want to decide for Wyll, in that crucial moment in his life. The whole situation should have been left up to him, not the player.
Personally I think Wyll is great…as an origin character playthru. He’s a natural choice for leader/faceman, esp in “good guy” runs. I build him as a swords bardlock, SAD build is easy, potent robes and birthright are pimp-glorious. For heroic arc, he saves his dad but declines his title, romances his former mark Karlach and they ride off into the sunset of Avernus. I find it a satisfying arc.
I feel lore wise it makes most sense to play wyll as tav and romance karlach: born leader, willing to sacrifice his own good for the common good.
Got my Golden Dice by playing witcher Wyll until the pact was broken and then respecing to Paladin Wyll.
Also, I really wish the devs would allow you to take advantage of more loopholes in Wyll's contract. Like for starters, he should be allowed to kill Karlach and we revive her which would technically fulfill his promise, as he did kill her. Also, I feel that it would make sense to be able to threaten Mizora to tell Zariel that M had set her warlock on Z's favorite pet. This sounds like it wouldn't make sense due to the fact that Z herself sent those "Paladins of Tyr," but that was after K had escaped Avernus. Wyll was sent after her while she was still there. Obviously, this was because Mizora was jealous that K was Zariel's favorite, and you should be able to use that to get something out of M.
Another loophole is that when you free her from the Mind Flayer Colony, she makes no mention that she will require payment to end the contract. The closest thing to that is that she says if we free her, she will end the contract. So, if payment is needed, her life was the payment. The last loophole that I wish you could take advantage of is that Mizora's offer in act 3 was to either give Wyll's soul for promised safety of Ulder or don't. She made no clear statement or writing that she would claim the soul of Ulder if Wyll denied her. I feel any two-bit lawyer could poke holes all over the place in her dealings.
What I'm trying to say here is that she committed contract fraud...
Allegedly
I like Wyll more than I used to but his early access loading screen was extremely compelling
Who hates wyll? Some people find him a bit vanilla or boring, but hate?
Nah.
He isn’t a bad character but he is just not really great or needed game play wise. The elf girl and vampire are auto includes if you want to play the game properly(for a new player who is not experienced enough to experiment for whatever reason). Then you have basically one party slot left outside the player character. Wyll got shafted with a charisma class who at best is a worst range option than gale and is not a monster like karlack. He is just a good hybrid of range and damage if you don’t know how to use him. He really does suffer from every one else being that good of a character and the fact they really should have focused on making the party numbers bigger to experience the game more.
Him: commensing an entire city-spanning investigation to figure out where did the duke go
Me: iboyfing Gortash's invitation in favour of dismantling Steelwatcher Foundry and going into underwater prison to remove steelwatchers as enemies, coming back to Gortash's caboodle to find a room full of dead people, no Ravenguard and Gortash himself hiding on a roof
I don't know what happened there, but Mizora then said that the choice was either to resurrect Duke or free Wyll and there's no way i will resurrect something that could be a devil's puppet instead of freeing my boy.
I messed up and freed Ravenguard before continuing Wyll's story line, breaking the contract inadvertently. All I wanted to do was fuck with Gortash, man.
I really think wyll should've been givien a character moment when he sees karlachs memories of escaping avernus, where he starts to think of maybe other devils he hunted were also innocent and mizora lied to him the whole time.
I originally found the Wyll hate insane. But as I interacted with BG3 fans more and more, it became painfully clear to me. People hate Wyll because he starts as a heroic and selfless person and he never really changes. People are obsessed with the more evil characters like Asterion and Minthara. But I was immediately pulled towards Wyll when I met him. Super heroic, selfless, honorable and noble. He takes his demonification like a champ because it means he did kill an innocent soul. And the "Blade of Avernus" route is honestly incredible. He spends the entire game talking about how he loves his father despite being banished by him. So him staying in the contract to save his father felt like the most in character decision for him. Why would he let his father die just to get out of his contract? Utter nonsense. And, again, he takes becoming the Blade of Avernus like a champ. His dad is safe, Baldur's Gate will be safe. Of course he'd take that deal. Wyll is the person to make the sacrifice play.
I've heard a lot about how characters without arcs are "boring". But what is interesting about static characters is how their morals are put to the test in difficult situations. Wyll loses his family, his home, and even his reputation in the name of saving the world and the people he loves. And he keeps his head held high the entire time. Wyll is fantastic. People need to just stop being edgelords.
Before I finish the video, I want to say I like Wyll. Hated using him in combat, but I like him well enough.
Hes vanilla but he's such a bro. Says really heroic shit and is pretty much a catalyst for interaction. Im gonna have him romance laezel or karlach. He's also very talkative (at least in my runs) which opens up alot of dialogue banter that I adore.
I like Wyll.
Wasn’t crazy about him my first or second playthrough, but definitely like him more on my 5th playthrough.
I hate that he got shafted
Wyll was my second favorite character. my first playthrough of the game, I played blind, looking at social media as little as possible about it. when I learned everyone hated wyll, I was very confused. i just didn't get it
Iron Throne: One of the highlights of Act 3
I do not understand, why some say, Act 3 would be a letdown. The Iron Thone and other great fights PROVE the opposite. The Iron Throne is such a well designed fight puzzle (save all captives), where you are forced to wrap your head around all the mechanics the game has to offer.
Editing because the beginning sounded pretentious and potentially rude:
So if I am correct, you are a bit confused on Wyll's timeline. The "Tiamat incident" was not during Elturel's fall, but instead it was during a not so eventful journey of the Duke to Elturel years ago. We know this because it was when Ulder returned from his journey that he banished Wyll, and Ulder was kidnapped by the Absolute during his journey to return from Elturel after the events of Descent into Avernus. Also, the timeline as you laid it out leaves no time for Wyll to become the legend, The Blade of Frontiers. He has been adventuring for quite some time before the events of the game. For further evidence, I believe Wyll mentions that he was 18 when he was banished, but he certainly does not look like an 18/19 year old to me.
Also, he didn't stop his chase of Karlach at the druid's grove. He had made his way into Avernus and was literally hunting her down when the Nautiloid crashed through. She took her chance and hopped aboard, and Wyll followed suit (hence how they both got their tadpoles). They survived the crash with methods of their own and tried making their way towards the next objective. She ran into some servants of Zariel, and he found some displaced Tieflings in need of protection.
I like Wyll, but there are problems.
1) He's a passive character - things are just happening to him without his influence on it.
2) Show don't tell principle - Wyll is telling you a lot of things from his past, everything that made Wyll the guy he is, he tells you. You don't get to discover or experience it organically. Karlach has also a lot of these, but you get to experience her overwhelming rage and sadness, whereas Wyll's emotional range is narrow. (This is not the actor issue)
3) Mizora sucks, she's just a quest giver
4) Daddy Duke does not impress me either, he does not feel like a character, more like a plot device.
5) Worst problem with Wyll, is that he doesn't have an arc. From the beginning to the end, he is a morally virtuous, selfless man, and he learn nothing new.
Conclusion: He'd benefit from a different plot, that would teach him how to get get himself out of co-dependent relationship with the devil, learn how to trust player, and for the endgame, he should be presented a choice between devil or player to help him save his father, instead of choice between life or death for someone the player does not really care about.
Iron Throne is easy AF, just buy/steal/trade any scrolls of haste on your way. Toss a potion of invis on the Duke, just let the spiders wander around helplessly. Save all the Gondians. Done.
After watching this I would like to bring up one more point, Wyll should have been a hexblade warlock mechanically. This would help with his blade of Frontiers persona. That said Hasbro didn't put hexblade in the game at launch so Wyll couldn't be a hexblade.
While Wyll certainly didn't receive nor does he continue to receive the same amount of attention as other characters (like Asatrion), there is nothing wrong with his character.
His story is about being a good man who has to make impossible choices and deciding how important are the ideals he tries to abide and live by. From the choice to make a deal with a devil in order to save his home, hunting and potentially killing an innocent person who was a victim of the devils much like him to deciding to finally be free of his pact and save his own soul or save the lives of his father and other innocents but doom his soul and forever be leashed by the devils. Wyll's story puts attaches him not just to the main story but connects him to other characters such as Karlach makes their bond a strong one without need of input from the player. That's good storytelling. Meanwhile you have characters like Astarion whose personal has absolutely NOTHING to with the main plot, is a complete distraction from said plot and has no relevance to the grander narrative.
So no, I don't hate Wyll, nor do I think his character is boring. Its far easier to make a morally grey character who's motives are fluid. I find it far more interesting to see how one handles a morally good character. Edginess doesn't equate good storytelling.
I like Wyll. He's just... dull.
I wish he had more humour. The other characters all get funny moments to shine as well as their drama and character growth.
Wyll’s biggest problem is Mizora is a scene stealer. She is funny, seductive and scheming and it leaves the player hoping an interaction with Wyll means another appearance by Mizora. the art for the game rarely depicts Wyll alone and Mizora is often there making them seem inseparable and that’s he’s not a person without her. Even when he does get out of the contract it doesn’t come across as a victory but a bump in the road for Mizora and she’ll eventually be back in control.
"Hating Wyll" is over the top. I've personally quite liked him since the start, even though he doesn't have the strongest story.
Maybe. I love all of the companions, but Wyll is the only one I can't stand. He is definitely the one with the weakest writing out of all of them.
I prefer Wyll as the main character. I didn't much like him as a companion because I think he was backseated by writers. On my second play through I figured I use him since I didn't feel like I'd be missing much from the dialogue and interaction perspective. It turned out to be a fun playthough and I appreciate Wyll more by playing as him.
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Honestly, rescuing the Duke is where I stop playing the game. I found the Throne blind wandering through Baldur's Gate. By the time i got there, most of my spell slots were drained and after multiple attempts to save everyone and failing, I decided to do a long rest and then Mizora showed up about Wyll's pact, i got frustrated because i was literally right there. Also not knowing if Gortash would make my travel through the City difficult, I put the game down.
Time to download some cheat mods
Didn't hear his origin really, I'm new to dnd put just heard podcasts and wanted to play a warlock. I enjoyed everything really, how he deals with devils and his father who was a mystery to me but everything slowly unfolded
Wyll is 10/10 for me he made my huge Dragonbron do a little spin
I disliked him untill I realized how young he is. I mean this guy is in his early twenties and he's already been through so much and still he's trying his best to be a good person
I like him it just feels like he’s story doesn’t feel complete
Wyll's ugly drip makes a bad first impression.
I like wyll he never leaves my party after the druid Grove
It is not about disliking him, his storyline isn't very interesting. His character isn't even much needed to progress, just like Gale. They are both easy to please and approval can reach 100 without effort and their interaction is not alluring. Wyll "well met ", Gale "what can I do for u". Depending on your choice of class and the character you play, you might need them but warlock isn't really needed because it's not here nor there especially if you are a magic character. I don't even have use for cleric either and I bring SH purely for her quests. Most characters I bring purely bc of their quests but I would rather not bring a class that clashes with my own.
I'd like to add my reason to hate Will: I was doing a honor mode run (With task manager) and got caught stealing from Withers by Scratch who was yet not my familiar. A fight started from it with Lae'zel joining him and Will joined on my side. Not under my control mind you. I very sadly turned on non-lethal attacks and planed to simply make Scratch incapacitated so he might not hate me and the same with Lae'zel. I got Scratch on 2 hp and Will decided it was a good idea TO ELDRITCH BLAST THE DOG KILLING HIM!
Tldr: That mf Will killed my dog!!
We made heroes out of other companions while Wyll is already a hero and we are watching a tragedy.
I didn't know he was a companion tbh just assumed he was a dude riding with the teiflings
Wyll is a good man, and good is boring.
Ngl Wyll was never my least favourite character I never hated him, or anyone else for that matter
Of my 3 least favorite companions, halsin, wyll, and karlach. I do like wyll the best, he has a good bro/best friend dynamic with tav/durge
Didnt even know a lot of people hated Wyll.
Wyll is great. Pact of the blade is insane.
I like Wyll
Which is why I’m disappointed they ain’t do nothing with him
Lmao. I romanced Wyll first! I like him, when I’m doing a good guy run. There are times when he and Karlach interrupt my evil fun, and he’s one of the three companions I will sometimes skip recruiting (along with Karlach and sometimes Lae’zel or Gale). Honestly, only Astarion is safe.
First 6 seconds of the video and I already disagree, how can you hate Wyll? He's the purest boy
Wyll's biggest failure, in my opinion, is that he's a flat character that doesn't change the people around him at all. It's why he's the best origin character to play the game as, in my opinion. Another example of a flat character is "Goku" from DBZ. People meme on him letting people go and letting bad guys go and then they'd become good guys but that's... the whole point of a flat character. The best thing I think would have happened to show his flat character is Mizora. She should have changed because of Wyll's selfless actions, letting him and his father go because of how he acted in spite of how she treated him. Something along those lines at least.
That's why I think along with Gale or Shadowheart, he is an ideal character to play as an origin (despite hating him) because he has a lot of inner conflict.
I'll be honest, I'm not fond of Wyll because I felt that the release version was aggressively bland in comparison to the EA version. I don't hate him, I just wish he had a bit more of what he lost in the rewrite. Now I admit, part of the problem is probably because they not only had to change actors, not saying either is better but just that the change made the time crunch worse, but that they had to do so over a much shorter time frame. People like Neil Newbon and Jennifer English had years to refine their characters and performances, and that was a luxury Theo Solomon just wasn't afforded.
His story poitns are always overshadowed by better story points. When he finally starts expaining his story in act 3 , I simply don’t care anymore.